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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm editor Kandis gives in join by staff writer Jane McGrath. Okay, Jane,

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Speaker 1: who do you think is one of the most reviled

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Speaker 1: figures in all of history? Oh? That's a good question.

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Speaker 1: I think Henry the Eighth is up there. Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: alongside Rescipute and who we talked about in an earlier podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Crazy Man Hitler. Ah, good answer, Good answer. Definitely

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Speaker 1: not Thomas Jefferson, whom everyone loves, or at least I do,

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Speaker 1: because we all know that Henry the Eighth. So he

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Speaker 1: reigned for thirty six years fifteen o nine fifty seven,

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Speaker 1: and during this time, I think somewhere between like fifty

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Speaker 1: seven thousand and seventy two thousand people were beheaded. That's

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Speaker 1: an amazing number. What do you think about it? Especially

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Speaker 1: um the fact that the Queen Queen Mary, known as

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Speaker 1: Bloody Mary, actually only killed about three hundred I think

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Speaker 1: in her six years, and yet she's known for being

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Speaker 1: the bloody I know that was his daughter, so we

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Speaker 1: don't know if you know she learned a thing or

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Speaker 1: two from her daughter or why. But as we'll see

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Speaker 1: in a few minutes her her killings were for a

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Speaker 1: very different reason. But Henry, Henry, Henry, Henry, Where do

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Speaker 1: we start with? Henry such a complicated man. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to be more popular than his father, and his father

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Speaker 1: set out to amass tons of money so that the

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Speaker 1: monarchy would be virtually unstoppable and unbreakable, and the people

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Speaker 1: kind of hated him. So when Henry the eighth came

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Speaker 1: into power, he wanted a couple of things. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to marry his brother's widow, and he wanted to be

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Speaker 1: more popular than his dad. And eventually he did both things,

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Speaker 1: but then screw them both up. Yeah, you could say that. Um.

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Speaker 1: He ended up killing two of his father's advisors, close

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Speaker 1: advisors who were well known in England at the time

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Speaker 1: for being responsible for a love of the high taxes

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Speaker 1: that were going on, the oppressiveness that they hated Henry

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Speaker 1: the seventh for Yeah, that was Edmund Dudley and Richard Empson,

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Speaker 1: and like Jane said, they were umbols of the corruption

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Speaker 1: at court. So when Henry killed them, instantly his stock

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Speaker 1: went up. But he didn't stop there. He started doing

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Speaker 1: some things that the people did not like so much.

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Speaker 1: And so one of the first wrong moves that he

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Speaker 1: made when he was at court was that he made

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Speaker 1: an attempt to marry his older brother's widow, Catherine of Aragon.

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Speaker 1: She was from Spanish royalty, and essentially he was arguing

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Speaker 1: that the marriage didn't really exist in the eyes of

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Speaker 1: God because they never consummated it. At least that was

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Speaker 1: the excuse he used by the Pope's hand to get

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Speaker 1: the marriage approved, right, and he exactly like you said,

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Speaker 1: he needed special permission from the Pope to marry her

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Speaker 1: in the first place. So that caused a lot of

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Speaker 1: trouble later on, it did. And so after all of

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Speaker 1: that hoop la getting to married Catherine of Aragon, he

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Speaker 1: decided that he wanted to divorce her. Yeah, he she

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Speaker 1: The big reason was, you could say that she had

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Speaker 1: not produced him a male heir, and he wanted someone

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Speaker 1: to uh in his family, his lineage to pass the

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Speaker 1: crown down to. And this marriage, which was all well

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Speaker 1: and fine, um, but the the queen did not produce

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Speaker 1: any males. So Henry turned around and he said, all right,

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Speaker 1: you're doing nothing for the Tutor family. And I guess

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Speaker 1: technically it was a sin to marry you in the

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Speaker 1: first place, so, um, we're getting divorced. And that was

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Speaker 1: when the Pope said, now, because he said, in the

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Speaker 1: first place, you know, you pointed out this law that

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Speaker 1: said it's not a sin to marry someone if the

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Speaker 1: married hasn't been consummated. So that's what we're gonna stick by, Henry.

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Speaker 1: That's that. So Henry went up the Pope by saying, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, the Catholic Church doesn't matter anymore. I'm

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Speaker 1: the church. Yeah. And this was a very interesting move

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Speaker 1: on his part because, uh, he's an interesting figure in

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Speaker 1: that he supported the church during the Protestant Revolution basically

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Speaker 1: that happened um earlier on, and he wrote a lot

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Speaker 1: of things against Martin Luther, who was credited with instigating

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Speaker 1: the revolution and um. And so he made a lot

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Speaker 1: of friends, Catholic friends in England to like us or

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Speaker 1: Thomas Moores is one who helped him talk about, like

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Speaker 1: write things that were against Martin Luther and aligned himself

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Speaker 1: with the Pope and the church. So when he broke

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Speaker 1: with the Catholic Church, he oversaw the start of the

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Speaker 1: English Reformation. And essentially what he did was he created

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Speaker 1: a modern sovereignty, which is, you know, throne independent of

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Speaker 1: the Church. But he didn't really see it at that time.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't trying to make huge strides for England, and

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Speaker 1: he just wanted to get what he wanted in the bedroom,

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Speaker 1: quite frankly so. And he wasn't just blindly annulling his

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Speaker 1: marriage from Catherine. He had his eye on someone else,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And her name was Anne Boleyn. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure many of you have heard that name, and

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Speaker 1: even if you know, you don't know the full story.

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Speaker 1: She was his mistress for a time being she was

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Speaker 1: a very young member of the court, and her family

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Speaker 1: noticed that she had caught the King's eye, and her

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Speaker 1: family being a rather enterprising group of individuals, but well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you exploit that, Anne, And so she did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it worked, and it caused England to turn away

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Speaker 1: from the Catholic Church in the end, it really really did.

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Speaker 1: It was a huge math. Yeah, and it ended up

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Speaker 1: not working out all that well for anyone really, because

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Speaker 1: Anne didn't produce a male either. She produced a daughter

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Speaker 1: with no male air. The thing is, Henry really loved

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Speaker 1: her at first. We know for a fact that he

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Speaker 1: really really loved her, but she was incredibly unpopular at

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Speaker 1: court and she wasn't getting any sympathy, and after she

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Speaker 1: failed to produce a male heir, she was she was

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Speaker 1: kind of out. But Henry needed a reason to kick

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Speaker 1: her out of the bed, so he made up a

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Speaker 1: lie that she was an adulteress. Yeah, and one of

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Speaker 1: the laws that eventually evolved around her was that she

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Speaker 1: had actually um was an adulteress with her brother, so

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Speaker 1: had an affair with her brother, and so this idea

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Speaker 1: of sent incests is obviously people lashed onto this idea

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Speaker 1: since they already hated her, and it was one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why she was executed and that was the

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Speaker 1: end of Anne. But Henry really couldn't be satiated. Throughout

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Speaker 1: his life, We constantly in history see him espousing women

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Speaker 1: and then and then killing them off and inventing these

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Speaker 1: reason end And it's not as though the people of

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Speaker 1: England were sitting back at this time and condoning it.

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Speaker 1: By the contrary, I'm sure that they were very upset

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Speaker 1: that they were probably also very afraid of him, because

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Speaker 1: this was a man who killed a nun, he killed cardinals,

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Speaker 1: he killed advisers, he killed members of the courts, and

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Speaker 1: most of the stemmed from from his separation with the

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Speaker 1: Church because once he wanted to marry Anne boleyn Uh.

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Speaker 1: People such as Thomas Moore and Colonel John Fisher, who

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Speaker 1: used to be as adversaries, were arguing that they basically

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Speaker 1: did not want to sign themselves onto this oath of

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Speaker 1: supremacy that Henry had had come up with, and they

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Speaker 1: weren't going to repudiate the church and and turned to

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Speaker 1: Henry as their new pope basically, but because Henry had

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Speaker 1: declared himself the heat of the Church and God's living

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Speaker 1: I guess dignitary or ambassador on earth, he had carte

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Speaker 1: launched to pretty much do what he placed. And this

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Speaker 1: was he really dangerous for, you know, the monarch to have.

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Speaker 1: And there were people who did voice opposition to Henry,

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Speaker 1: and one of the more notable ones. Actually, it's so

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Speaker 1: funny because she was such a humble and unexpected figure

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Speaker 1: to do so, Elizabeth Barton, that's right. And she was

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Speaker 1: a young girl and she was so basically a servant,

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Speaker 1: and uh, she got sick when she was about nineteen

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Speaker 1: and she started getting visions um that when she claimed

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Speaker 1: divine visions and messages from God saying, you know, Henry

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Speaker 1: cannot marry Anne Boleyn. You cannot let this happen. If

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Speaker 1: he does, he's not going to survive long afterwards. And

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Speaker 1: so she started saying these visions and Henry was a

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Speaker 1: little upset about that. And so there were people divided

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Speaker 1: into distinct camps. There's who thought she was crazy, there

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Speaker 1: was who thought she was having legitimate visions, and those

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Speaker 1: who thought, I guess she was just speaking out, you know,

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Speaker 1: against the king. It was an active truth then, and

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Speaker 1: the Archbishop of Canterbury had some good insight. He thought, well,

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Speaker 1: if I get this girl and stayed in in a

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Speaker 1: convent and she studies to become a nun, she's going

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Speaker 1: to gain some cloud. And she did, and she had

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Speaker 1: these visions for more than ten years, and eventually she

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Speaker 1: was accused of treason and arrested. And when she was

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Speaker 1: put on trial, I don't now if she was frightened

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Speaker 1: to the point of confessing that she was faking yet,

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Speaker 1: or if she really was genuinely faking it all along. Whatever,

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Speaker 1: she attracted her statements and that was the end of her.

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Speaker 1: So she didn't really went out by retracting your statements anyway.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right, as you mentioned, they made her

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Speaker 1: a nun and some and it kind of worked to

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Speaker 1: the fact that she was known from then on as

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Speaker 1: the nun of Kent. So if you look back at

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Speaker 1: these members of the church that Henry opposed and and

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Speaker 1: all the harm that came to them. Um, John Fisher,

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Speaker 1: like you mentioned earlier, he was very very opposed to

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Speaker 1: henryson Norman from Catherine and he was beheaded, but later

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Speaker 1: four hundred years later, actually he was sainted. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I imagine not getting into this oath of supremacy put

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Speaker 1: in a good light with the church. For the candonization,

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Speaker 1: it was really scary. With the act declared. It would

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Speaker 1: be like are us president today saying, yeah, we already

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Speaker 1: have a separation of church and stay. But there you know,

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Speaker 1: there's sort of a new religious power and and that's me,

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Speaker 1: and so I can do what I want. So think

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Speaker 1: of everything he has at his disposal. Not only does

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Speaker 1: he have the national treasury, but he's got he's got

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Speaker 1: the military, and he's got all of these counsels that

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Speaker 1: he ever sees, he's got the infrastructure, everything under his thumb.

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Speaker 1: And because he is the new supreme ruler. He gets

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Speaker 1: to do whatever he wants. And meanwhile he throws coush

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Speaker 1: into the wind when it comes to morality, and gets

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Speaker 1: to go out and be with as many women as

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Speaker 1: he wants. And when he's tired of one, he gets

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Speaker 1: to cut off her head and go on to the

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Speaker 1: next one. And imagine he instilled fear and everyone at

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Speaker 1: the time since he was cutting off whoever he thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever his whims told him, right. And so

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Speaker 1: when we look back at Henry, we have to wonder, well,

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Speaker 1: all these people were in opposition dying, was there anyone

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Speaker 1: who actually supported him? And scarily enough, yeah, yeah, there was. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. There's this one character named Thomas Cromwell who

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Speaker 1: supported him throughout his his seek for divorce from his

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Speaker 1: first wife so that he could marry An Bowyan. And

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Speaker 1: he once the Catholic Church was done away with in

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Speaker 1: in England, he basically swept through. He disbanded the monasteries,

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Speaker 1: he did away with taxes that were paid to Rome

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Speaker 1: at that time. And um uh after uh, the marriage

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Speaker 1: to Anne didn't work out as we said, Um, Henry

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Speaker 1: married Jane Seymour and uh not. Dr Quinn medicine, that's right,

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Speaker 1: a different one in case you're confused. And she actually

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Speaker 1: did on the side. Note, she did produce a male

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Speaker 1: heir for him, but she died a little bit later

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Speaker 1: and it turned out later down the line that the

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Speaker 1: Sun was kind of a weekly child and ended up

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Speaker 1: dying kind of young too. But that's uh, that's not

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Speaker 1: to the point that Um, after Jane Seymour died, Cromwell,

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Speaker 1: who was still his his his friend at this time,

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Speaker 1: convinced Harry or sorry Henry, to Mary Anne of Cleaves,

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Speaker 1: and uh, this was a disaster. Basically it was part

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Speaker 1: a political alliance with Germany, that's right. Yeah, And um,

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out from the beginning because Henry hated her.

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Speaker 1: She he didn't think she was pretty, she didn't like

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Speaker 1: her care her personality. Just hated each other and so

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Speaker 1: he would not have it anymore, and so he wanted

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Speaker 1: a divorce. And he sort of blamed Cromwell for this

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Speaker 1: marriage because like obviously he orchestrated it as a political move.

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Speaker 1: As Candice said it, so a note to all of

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Speaker 1: you legislators that they're listening, don't be matchmakers. Just okay

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Speaker 1: it because you never now that's true. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: big Cromwell in the behind right there. And actually after

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Speaker 1: that you can see how the tables turned so much because, um,

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Speaker 1: remember when we said that he had dismanded monasteries and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that against the Catholic Church. But at that

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Speaker 1: time he got connections with Lutherans, and so his enemies,

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Speaker 1: Cromwell's enemies at this time, made these connections, tried to

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Speaker 1: convince the king that he was a heretic because obviously, um,

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Speaker 1: Henry was not for Lutherans. He fought against the Lutherans

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Speaker 1: as well, and so this convinced Henry and head chopped off.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you look at what happened after Henry

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Speaker 1: passed on and his daughter came to the throne and

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Speaker 1: says Mary, Queen Mary, and bloody Mary. And here's what's

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Speaker 1: so ironic. She was devoutly religious, and so she tried

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Speaker 1: to reinstate the church. And the reason that we call

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Speaker 1: her Bloody Mary's because a lot of people died under

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Speaker 1: her hand when they were burned at the stake for Harrison.

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Speaker 1: So all that, I guess you could call it work,

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Speaker 1: or all the groundwork that her father lay tried to

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Speaker 1: separate the church and state she tried to fix and

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Speaker 1: it didn't work in the end. But from that on

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Speaker 1: out man, what a mass and right? And after Mary

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Speaker 1: and uh, then that's when Elizabeth came to thrown, and

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Speaker 1: that's when we get Shakespeare and everything Elizabethan era and

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Speaker 1: the rest of history. So if you want even more

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Speaker 1: about Elizabeth and Shakespeare and marriage or blood, be sure

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Speaker 1: to check out how stuff works dot com for more

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Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think.

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Speaker 1: Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com.