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Speaker 1: Worry.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode will contain spoilers for the Last of US

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Speaker 2: season two and of course season one, and maybe some

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Speaker 2: of the game too.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think the game is gonna come up.

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Speaker 4: Helloa.

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Speaker 2: It is Jason Gncepcion and on Mesday Night and welcome

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Speaker 2: back to x Ravasion of the Podcast, where we dive

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Speaker 2: deep idiot favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture company

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Speaker 2: from my our podcast, We're We're Very three episodes a

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Speaker 2: week every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, plus Dubs News on

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Speaker 2: Tatoes News.

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Speaker 5: You can only whisper. It's like a lore them me.

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Speaker 5: But in today's episode, Wow, we're convening the jackson Hole

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Speaker 5: Council or I guess now maybe it's like the Satellite

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Speaker 5: Seactle Council for the Last of US season two round

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Speaker 5: table off the that pretty shocking finale, which I am

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Speaker 5: so excited to see how people felt about it.

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Speaker 4: I can't wait to see.

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Speaker 5: Dude, this has gonna be crazy divisive, like not necessarily

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Speaker 5: in the council, I don't know, but in the bandom,

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Speaker 5: like I think people are gonna.

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Speaker 4: Be in the fandom.

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Speaker 2: Well, listen, that's not considering, that's not especial. Okay, let's

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Speaker 2: get into it, all right, folks, please welcome super producers

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Speaker 2: Joeell and Aaron to the show.

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Speaker 1: Fuel Rage Fire.

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Speaker 5: I gotta say, any fucking person who questioned whether Bella

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Speaker 5: Ramsey had the juice, they better be swallowing those words

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Speaker 5: right now, because this episode is a powerhouse.

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Speaker 3: Aaron, how you doing?

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Speaker 6: I mean I never questioned whether or not Bella had

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Speaker 6: the juice. I questioned whether or not Bella was use

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Speaker 6: it like h during in a physical pain, and then

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Speaker 6: we see.

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Speaker 3: All the bruises on her back.

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Speaker 4: All right, yeah, she's getting it. I get it.

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Speaker 6: She's this is real stunts. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, okay, So.

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Speaker 2: Let's just quick thirty thousand foot view. What did we

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Speaker 2: think of the season before we get to the finale, Joelle,

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Speaker 2: Let's start with you.

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Speaker 7: Well, I was talking to Aaron before we hopped on Mike,

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Speaker 7: and I was fresh. I was like, damn you, Craig,

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Speaker 7: because the whole season I was like, wow, this is

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Speaker 7: paced so awkwardly, like I don't understand, Like we have

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Speaker 7: this great character Isaac Comini, barely spend any time with

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Speaker 7: him at all, like or bouncing back and forth.

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Speaker 1: We got flashbacks like.

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Speaker 4: Handra Hen does handra Han have a line? Does Alma

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Speaker 4: you have a line? I mean we just kind of

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Speaker 4: see her through a scene.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, like and so it was.

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Speaker 7: It was irritating to me because I never felt like

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Speaker 7: I was enveloped in the story. The pacing was just

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Speaker 7: so jarring. But then this finale was so damn good.

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Speaker 7: I was like, it's so good, and it brought me

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Speaker 7: back to this. He did an interview with Tony Gilroy

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Speaker 7: on his podcast script Writing, script Notes, script Notes Notes,

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Speaker 7: and he was saying like, I don't know when I'll

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Speaker 7: go back to being able to make a movie like

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Speaker 7: I've signed on for this. It's such a long journey.

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Speaker 7: I was like, ah, buddy, you made a movie. You

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Speaker 7: made a movie instead of a TV show. And I'm

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Speaker 7: not even mad about it.

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Speaker 1: It's good.

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Speaker 7: I just sort of wish we had been able to

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Speaker 7: binge it. I think a lot of this fan bs

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Speaker 7: like where.

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Speaker 1: There were so many people who genuinely enjoyed the game.

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Speaker 7: It had genuine critiques that I think we're valid that

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Speaker 7: I think might have enjoyed the series a great deal

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Speaker 7: more if they had been able to just binge it

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Speaker 7: and get the whole idea in one not one sitting

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Speaker 7: like one or two?

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Speaker 4: Are we and or pilled? Have we been like and

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Speaker 4: or season two pilled? Is that the.

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Speaker 3: Issue have been hand or pilled?

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Speaker 5: I also think that for a show with only seven episodes,

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Speaker 5: and I understand, look, we did weekly coverage of this show,

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Speaker 5: and we were absolutely not the only podcast or outlet

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Speaker 5: do it. Like I get HBO gets the conversation going,

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Speaker 5: but I think that in this specific case, if they

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Speaker 5: had done a secret binge drop, this would have been

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Speaker 5: perceived as such a stronger season because it.

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Speaker 3: Is very uneven.

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Speaker 5: But I do think that the finale ties things together

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Speaker 5: and leaves us in a space where I actually want

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Speaker 5: to know what's going to happen. Yeah, it makes the

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Speaker 5: journey worth it. Aaron, how did the season sit for you?

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Speaker 4: I loved it. I loved it.

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Speaker 6: I mean I think in our last roundtable after episode five,

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Speaker 6: we briefly talked about how season one felt more focused

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Speaker 6: on individual storylines and season two has been all about

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Speaker 6: these groups and these armies or these organizations or cities

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Speaker 6: and the people within it. And I really felt like

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Speaker 6: the season finale did such a good job of showing

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Speaker 6: that all of these communities are at risk when one

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Speaker 6: individual acts out and is brash and is dangerous and

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Speaker 6: goes against what the community maybe should do and then

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Speaker 6: suddenly like, you know, whether it be Abby going and

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Speaker 6: doing more than the rest of the WLF team wanted

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Speaker 6: when they capture Joel and staying longer and then that

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Speaker 6: puts all of them at risk and then they're dying,

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Speaker 6: or whether it's Ellie like doing things that you know,

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Speaker 6: she the town council voted against. Like, it's really interesting

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Speaker 6: to see this finale bring it all back together and say,

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Speaker 6: this show is still about individual choices and it's sometimes

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Speaker 6: a really horrible result for the rest of the people involved.

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Speaker 5: Let's talk a little bit more about kind of more

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Speaker 5: zoomed in, specifically about the finale. Joel, what was it

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Speaker 5: that worked for you and kind of what was your

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Speaker 5: journey as you went from that opening all the way

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Speaker 5: to that finale, which at the final moments I think

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Speaker 5: are going to really have people talking.

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Speaker 7: I think so too, Okay, I think two things worked

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Speaker 7: for me. One, the thesis of season one seemed to

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Speaker 7: be like what will you do for love?

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Speaker 1: Like what's the line?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 7: In season two, it's all culminated and like what happens

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Speaker 7: to the children, and it's so hammered home beautifully in

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Speaker 7: this final episode where constantly you know, Ellie's sort of

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Speaker 7: predicants whole idea. She's very concerned of like I am

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Speaker 7: a good person and my best friend doesn't think so,

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Speaker 7: like nobody sees me as being good, and she's like,

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Speaker 7: I had to save that kid. I'm a good person,

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Speaker 7: Like Joel was a good person.

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Speaker 1: He saved me.

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Speaker 7: Then later she's betrayed by a child on the banks.

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Speaker 7: You know, if she'd been tactically thinking that was a

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Speaker 7: very cute little girl, but you might have taken her

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Speaker 7: out because you know, survival, it's wild out here.

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Speaker 1: And then of course with the tragedy.

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Speaker 7: At the end, with a pregnant woman understanding she's dying

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Speaker 7: and be like, please just save my kid. What happens

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Speaker 7: to the kids, and so to like so strongly repeat

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Speaker 7: that theme and really like narrow laser focus it in

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Speaker 7: on Ellie. Part two of what really works is Ellie's

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Speaker 7: rage is now understandable. I still wish we had a

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Speaker 7: little peeps of it, even if it was in her

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Speaker 7: silent moments, if she wasn't expressing it with her friends

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Speaker 7: or whatever I do, which we had a little bit

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Speaker 7: more throughout the season, but for it when the confrontation,

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Speaker 7: when she's like, hey, that's I found it.

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Speaker 1: That's the wheel on the wheel.

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Speaker 7: Okay, I'm gonna go like like there's a storm and

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Speaker 7: Tommy's out there, And it was crazy to be like

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Speaker 7: Tommy's out there and she's like, yeah, but Tommy would

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Speaker 7: want me to go get Joel's killer, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 7: Tommy's alive.

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Speaker 4: Tommy is alive, right, yeah, you here. You could go

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Speaker 4: get it and.

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Speaker 7: Still go get revenge for Joel, but you can't even

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Speaker 7: differentiate like time and space. You're just so laser focused,

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Speaker 7: and like seeing those decisions play out again, and everything

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Speaker 7: before and everything after so much more like palpable and intense,

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Speaker 7: and I think all of that just calmlated so beautifully together.

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Speaker 7: I really enjoyed, like watching those sequences. It was heartbreaking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 5: Shocked actually by how much I enjoyed it because I

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Speaker 5: really struggled with uh Nora's death in the season. I

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Speaker 5: felt like it didn't feel authentic to Ellie. I felt

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Speaker 5: like it was very just like a light switch that

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Speaker 5: I didn't really understand why it was turned on, And

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Speaker 5: I didn't think that it was particularly well done, and

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Speaker 5: I just it made me dislike Ellie, but not in

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Speaker 5: a way that felt intentional. But the way that they

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Speaker 5: dealt with melan Owen and the changes they made, I

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Speaker 5: found it to be incredibly affecting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I did too. I thought that. I mean that

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Speaker 4: the scene where.

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Speaker 2: Ellie is trying to figure out how she can follow

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Speaker 2: these instructions to save the child are so harrowing and

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Speaker 2: hard to watch. And I think also, you know, if

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Speaker 2: there's one thing this this season has done right, I

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Speaker 2: think it's drilling down on that idea that while Ellie

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Speaker 2: is doing something that I think we all all that

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Speaker 2: resonates with us in a very human and emotional way,

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Speaker 2: you know, revenge justice. You feel like something totally unjustice

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Speaker 2: happened and you want to make it right and you

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Speaker 2: have it in your power to make it right, and

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Speaker 2: at the same time examining how that can turn you

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Speaker 2: into like an angel of death.

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Speaker 4: You know, even.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you can whisper to her as she's dying, hand,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean it.

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Speaker 4: You know, like, what what does that really mean? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: What does that really mean?

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Speaker 2: To not have meant to do that? And you would

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Speaker 2: ask the same of of Joel. And it made me

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Speaker 2: think of I watch I watched this show on the

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Speaker 2: beleaguered Showtime network, Couple Therapy.

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Speaker 5: A couple of Therapy, extra vision crossover.

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Speaker 3: It could happen. He love that.

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Speaker 2: But she she was talking to this couple who were

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Speaker 2: having you know, there's these recriminations going back and forth,

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Speaker 2: like you did this, okay, yeah, but like I did

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Speaker 2: that because you did this first. And she was like, actually, wait,

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Speaker 2: hold on, I want to stop you because it's not

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Speaker 2: actually important who did what first. Both partners were like, well,

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Speaker 2: I think it is important because it's and she's like, yes,

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Speaker 2: in a legal sense, like if we were in a courtroom,

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Speaker 2: that's important, right, But in terms of stopping this of

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Speaker 2: moving on from this cycle, it's not important. And that

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Speaker 2: scene really reminded me of that because I think it's

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Speaker 2: you know, we've talked a lot about the changes that

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Speaker 2: they've made visa v Elie, and we've talked a lot

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Speaker 2: about some of the more unhinged criticisms of Eli.

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Speaker 4: They nerved her.

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Speaker 2: She's not like this crazy John wa and and I

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Speaker 2: think those changes are positive. And I think they're positive

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Speaker 2: because of this scene here this is the scene where

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Speaker 2: whatever they end up doing, if they end up following

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Speaker 2: the kind of blueprint of the game with the in

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Speaker 2: the final confrontation between Ellie and Abbey, it's because of this.

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Speaker 4: Scene that it will make sense.

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Speaker 2: And I just thought it was tremendously impactful and important

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Speaker 2: and kind of what the entire show is about is

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Speaker 2: like either choose life or choose death, but you can't

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Speaker 2: choose them both.

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Speaker 6: You really can't choose them both. Aaron, Yeah, this was

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Speaker 6: a heartbreaking scene. I mean, mel dying and and just

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Speaker 6: whispering you're doing You're doing great, You're doing great, like

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Speaker 6: that was heartbreaking. And also I think, really, you know

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Speaker 6: season one, the finale of season one opens with Ellie

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Speaker 6: being born like her mom is attacked by infected and

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Speaker 6: then she is born as her mother is dying and

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Speaker 6: is saved by Marlene. But that was like an infected attack,

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Speaker 6: and then here we have another living, non infected human

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Speaker 6: killing this mother and a much worse outcome where the

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Speaker 6: baby does not make it. And it was I think

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Speaker 6: just like the change in these two scenes in the finale,

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Speaker 6: like like Joelle's talking about with kids with the offspring,

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Speaker 6: and like the future generations not working out this time

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Speaker 6: feels so depressing and dark.

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Speaker 2: And I would argue the worst thing that Ellie did

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Speaker 2: was not immediately turn around when she found out that

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Speaker 2: Dina is pregnant.

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Speaker 4: Like yes, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 5: Like and go back even if you know like Dina did,

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Speaker 5: she said, Oh, I don't think you know. I want

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Speaker 5: revenge too. I don't give a shit. Get on the

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Speaker 5: fucking horse. We're going home, Like that's h And I

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Speaker 5: really loved what they did with Jesse and Ellie in

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Speaker 5: this episode. I think those conversations so.

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Speaker 2: He puts the responsibility squarely on her, Hey what about

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Speaker 2: my life? What about my relationship with my child too?

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Speaker 2: And I'm here bailing you out of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And I also thought there was something so interesting.

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Speaker 3: You know, we have been.

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Speaker 5: Quite critical of the way to WLF and the Scars

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Speaker 5: have kind of been left as almost these kind of

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Speaker 5: archetypal antagonists rather than any kind of given much depth.

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Speaker 5: But I thought what was kind of unbelievable in this

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Speaker 5: episode was just realizing how absolutely nihilistic and unnecessary the

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Speaker 5: whole war is and how clear it's like, actually this

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Speaker 5: is fucking stupid, Like you guys could be living in

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Speaker 5: this space and there is no need for you to

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Speaker 5: be chopping out each other's guts or sniping people, Like

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Speaker 5: why the fuck does it matter, Like that's what you're

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Speaker 5: choosing to do.

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Speaker 7: But then also how ingrained it is, like yeah, no,

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Speaker 7: cut her guts, like you're like, oh yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 7: so ingrained in how they operate they can't even think

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Speaker 7: beyond like like even Abby's rushing in at the end,

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Speaker 7: Like you know, in our first interaction with Abby, the

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Speaker 7: show makes a change from the games. We understand to

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Speaker 7: some extent her decision making, but we're so Unjual's side

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Speaker 7: of things where we're and and it's awful to watch

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Speaker 7: Ellie have to process this in real time.

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Speaker 1: And the end though, you're kind of like, I get

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Speaker 1: why you gotta shoot Ellie girl?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, she kills.

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Speaker 7: Your pregnant bestie, Like she's out here wreaking havoc.

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Speaker 4: You let her go clearly.

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Speaker 5: Very close to Abby, whether it's the p A ship

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Speaker 5: or whatever. I also think something that was really well

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Speaker 5: done is I like the changes they made to Owen

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Speaker 5: and Mel's story from the game, like weren't well if

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Speaker 5: in the game, Owen kind of like runs away from

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Speaker 5: the WLF after he accidentally kills another member, and Mel

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Speaker 5: does die, but there is not the It is not

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Speaker 5: in the situation where Ellie is like purposefully not gonna

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Speaker 5: kill her. It's like she's gonna kill her. Then she

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Speaker 5: finds out she's pregnant and she's upset afterwards, and that

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Speaker 5: is one of the most heart wrenching parts of part two.

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Speaker 5: But I think the way that they did at this time,

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Speaker 5: where Ellie clearly did not want to kill either of them,

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Speaker 5: but again that cycle of violence Owen has to get

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Speaker 5: the gun. Owen doesn't believe that Ellie is going to

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Speaker 5: allow them to live, so he tries to kill her,

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Speaker 5: and that leads to both of them dying and that

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Speaker 5: kind of horrific shock, And this is I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 5: This is also a trophy love from films and where

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Speaker 5: you think somebody has survived and then you realize that

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Speaker 5: actually they have also been shot. You know.

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Speaker 3: I thought that was so affecting.

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Speaker 5: And I also think the actress that plays Mel is

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Speaker 5: just unbelievable. The small amount of time that she has

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Speaker 5: on screen and the absolute impact that she makes is

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Speaker 5: just I want to see her in a million other things.

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Speaker 5: I think she's absolutely fantastic. And that moment, like you said, Aaron,

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Speaker 5: like when she's telling Ellie like her nursing, her caretaker nature,

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Speaker 5: she just can't stop it. So she's kind of saying

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Speaker 5: to Ellie like you're doing great, like you you know,

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Speaker 5: like she's just so kind to Ariella Bearer, and she

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Speaker 5: is just so fantastic. And I think I was already

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Speaker 5: a fan of hers from Stargirl, but I just was

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Speaker 5: really moved by those scenes, and I felt like they

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Speaker 5: gave us a lot more to go on.

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Speaker 7: It was like discovering the core of who she was

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Speaker 7: exactly right, like if if, if everything else is going

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Speaker 7: away and this is just her lizard brain left it.

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Speaker 1: This was just a nice woman.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really.

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Speaker 2: It also made me think about how much one how

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Speaker 2: easy it is to become the bad guy without realizing

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Speaker 2: Ellie doesn't realize that she is the villain in these

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Speaker 2: people's lives, and two, how much like more successful the

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Speaker 2: WLF Revenge vision was.

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Speaker 4: It's like it's like showing.

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Speaker 2: You know what you know, how like you know one

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Speaker 2: of the most ancient sayings, revenge is a dish best

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Speaker 2: served cold. And here's why it took five years, but

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Speaker 2: they got the right They did get the right guy.

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Speaker 2: Did they go too far? They tortured him. It's terrible

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Speaker 2: what happened. But they got the one guy.

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Speaker 7: But they got the coolishment they didn't they got the

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Speaker 7: one I think, no extra deaths.

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Speaker 4: They got the one guy, Ellie.

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Speaker 6: This thing.

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Speaker 4: Was safe. They didn't live.

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Speaker 2: They let Ellie live, and look at what Ellie's done

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Speaker 2: and it's collateral damage.

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Speaker 1: But as the show's like final.

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Speaker 7: Theme of like community, my apologize one ad okay, it

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Speaker 7: also speaks to the show's final theme of community versus

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Speaker 7: the self.

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Speaker 1: Right, they did it as a community.

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Speaker 7: They all made a pack, they always together, they all

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Speaker 7: arrived where Ellie is like, I can't get my community

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Speaker 7: to back me, I'll just do it myself.

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Speaker 5: I also think that is such a great point, Joelle,

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Speaker 5: because there's definitely an argument that if Ellie had not gone,

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Speaker 5: the community at some point would have returned.

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Speaker 3: To that idea.

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Speaker 5: I think it was clearly yeah, it was just not right.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so let's let's go to an ad break because

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Speaker 5: I think the next thing I want to talk about

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Speaker 5: is probably going to be a long, a long chance.

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Speaker 3: However, Aaron and Joel.

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Speaker 5: I would love to know your thoughts on Dina and

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Speaker 5: Ellie having the conversation that didn't happen in the game

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Speaker 5: where Ellie tells Dina what Joel did, because I found

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Speaker 5: that to be such a nerve racking scene, and I

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Speaker 5: think it does kind of change and shift where we

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Speaker 5: leave them at the end of the season.

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Speaker 3: Aaron, how did that work for you?

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Speaker 6: It felt in the beginning, I felt like Dina reacted

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Speaker 6: too harshly, and then the next morning she's like over

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Speaker 6: it and gives her the bracelet, and I was like,

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Speaker 6: that actually feels very real, Like someone you love tells

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Speaker 6: you something and you yes, you have two drastically different reactions,

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Speaker 6: and then in the end you're like, well, what to

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Speaker 6: talk about this more later? But like you shocked me

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Speaker 6: with this, but yeah, I know that there's other things

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Speaker 6: we're dealing with. So I liked that. I like that

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Speaker 6: this show I feel like gets a lot of these

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Speaker 6: interpersonal things correct or feeling very authentic and real, and

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Speaker 6: not just in a way that it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: I forgive you and then three episodes later, we should

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Speaker 6: go back to this or something like. It felt that

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Speaker 6: felt authentic so I.

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Speaker 5: Really there is an urgency, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 5: I also think that I have been quite you know,

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Speaker 5: loudly critical this season of how I feel like the

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Speaker 5: writing has let down Dina and Ellie often when they're

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Speaker 5: by themselves. But I think this is a season high

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Speaker 5: for like and not just a season, but also a series.

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Speaker 5: I think this episode is incredible, and there were multiple moments,

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Speaker 5: but this was kind of the first big one where

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Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, they locked in, they got it,

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Speaker 5: Like whoever? This That conversation felt so real and so painful,

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Speaker 5: and I felt like Bella was just firing on all cylinders.

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Speaker 5: Isabella is so incredible when it comes to kind of

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Speaker 5: micro emotions and just how horrified because the thing is

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Speaker 5: about this secret is that it affects every single person

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Speaker 5: on Earth. It affects your best friend, it affects your enemy.

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Speaker 5: And I just thought it was quite astounding. And I

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Speaker 5: was disappointed that we didn't get the Joel and Tommy conversation,

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Speaker 5: but I think this ended up being a good change.

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Speaker 3: Joell, how did it work for you?

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Speaker 7: It highlighted so many things which I thought was really interesting,

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Speaker 7: Like before this scene you have Jesse standing outside with

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Speaker 7: the gun, he's skeptical of whether it's Ellie. He decides

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Speaker 7: it is her, lets her in, but he's laid Dina

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Speaker 7: up there, like covered her with a blanket, like he's

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Speaker 7: playing protect her outside. And there's this really discussion he

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Speaker 7: has later with Ellie where he's like, yeah, I love her,

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Speaker 7: but it's not quite the same. He's like, I've been

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Speaker 7: in like real love before, and it's different. You just

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Speaker 7: see how like Dina and Ellie are in love, but

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Speaker 7: in a way that isn't sort of the sappy, like

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Speaker 7: overly performative. They're equals like in every like Dina's hurt

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Speaker 7: and she was like move over, like I'm gonna take

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Speaker 7: care of you.

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Speaker 1: Like there is no looking there.

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Speaker 7: They're just completely meeting each other at the same point,

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Speaker 7: and it's so beautiful. And so then when you have

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Speaker 7: this like very vulnerable Ellie, like you completely understand Dina's

416
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Speaker 7: like heartbreak, like we didn't have to be you knew,

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Speaker 7: you knew all of this, and you didn't let me

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Speaker 7: make a full decision, and that's frustrating.

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Speaker 3: Great, but again.

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Speaker 7: Even in the next day for like that to carry over,

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Speaker 7: you know, Jesse, the first thing he's like, you should

422
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Speaker 7: not be up. She's like, I got this, like to

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Speaker 7: say goodbye, I can barricade the door. She is pregnant.

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Speaker 7: They should have gone back, but like she feels like

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Speaker 7: a badass bitch, like she's really strong. She made she

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Speaker 7: did not have fully informed like ability to make a

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Speaker 7: complete decision, but she did want to be by l

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Speaker 7: as you would have. I think made the choice to

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Speaker 7: still calm and still protect her. I think that they're

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Speaker 7: that locked in, and because of that, it makes like again,

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Speaker 7: just everything going forward much more interesting. I wish we

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Speaker 7: could have had some smaller moments like this before I

433
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Speaker 7: point Rosie, but this, they nailed this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah they did.

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Speaker 5: It also kind of leads to another big conversation, which

436
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Speaker 5: is really like, what do you guys feel about the

437
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Speaker 5: way that kind of Jesse interacts with Ellie this episode

438
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Speaker 5: and with Dina and that kind of realistic conversations that

439
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 5: they're having, and kind of the notion of where this

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Speaker 5: could go, how Ellie views juty, how and loyalty and

441
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 5: how Jesse views it, and kind of the when Jesse

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00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 5: talks about the pressure of knowing everyone wants him to be,

443
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 5: you know, the next Maria. That stuff was like pretty

444
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 5: incredible and obviously it makes the end of the episode

445
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 5: like even more heartbreaking.

446
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 3: Aaron I really liked it.

447
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 4: I thought it was really important.

448
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 2: I thought, I thought that there is there's something very

449
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: real in Ellie's kind of knee jerk reaction to Jesse

450
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 2: trying to be a sincerely good person by being like,

451
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: you're such a fucking nerd, Like that is really you know,

452
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 2: trying to be good and do good things is often

453
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: like the corniest fucking thing possible, like in real life.

454
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 4: And so I thought that that felt.

455
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: Very true for Ellie to be like, oh, so you're

456
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: good and I'm bad because like I'm on a revenge

457
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: mission and you just like want to run Jackson. Well,

458
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: but I thought that it was really important that Jesse

459
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 2: b not just like the voice of reason, but like

460
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: the voice the person who calls her out. Yeah, from

461
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: a from a place of actual responsibility. Here's a person

462
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: who is going above and beyond to be responsible not

463
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 2: just for your life but for everybody's life here, and

464
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: look at how reckless you're being in this moment. And

465
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: I thought that was And I thought that Ellie's anger

466
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: and frustration at him, the way she calls him out

467
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: for oh, yeah, like you're good and I'm bad and

468
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: I'm such a piece of shit. I thought that was

469
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: so real because it that's that hit home for her.

470
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: You can tell that it hit her that she knew

471
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: in that moment, Oh yeah, I'm this is really like

472
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: stupid when.

473
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 5: I'm doing not that shup like not ever.

474
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, not that this isn't a worthy thing to do,

475
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: but the way it's happening right now is irresponsible.

476
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 4: It's reckless.

477
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: I've put many people's lives in danger for something that

478
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: is for me, is something that I want, not what's

479
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: best for everybody. And I thought that was really important.

480
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: I thought that was really important that he said that

481
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: to her and put that weight on her shoulders, said explicitly,

482
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: you're responsible for all of these lives, all of these

483
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: people that came out here to save you, that broke

484
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 2: the compact and the contract they had with their larger

485
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: community just to save you. Realize all the people that

486
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: broke their word to save you because they care about you.

487
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: And when he says listen, I know you'd storm the

488
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: gates of health to get me, what he's also saying

489
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: is realize your responsibility to these other people around you. Okay,

490
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: what's the hardest thing that you would do.

491
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 4: For them? And think about doing that now.

492
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

493
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 5: I also found that to be a very interesting moment.

494
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 5: It makes me want to cry, actually, because I do

495
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 5: think that again, this is some of the best writing

496
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 5: of this season because it's so real and it's Ellie

497
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 5: is Her defensiveness is so relatable, like if you've ever

498
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 5: been the one who caused the problem and then somebody

499
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 5: tells you, it's like that the worst fucking feeling in

500
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 5: the world, and we've all been there. And I also

501
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: love how much depth they gave to Jesse, how much

502
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 5: reality about like he tells her, he gave up real love.

503
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 5: He gave up that kind of head rush love that

504
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 5: you get where you're both falling for each other and

505
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 5: it's the best feeling in the world because he knew

506
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 5: that he couldn't abandon the people who raised him, you

507
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 5: know it. And I also think there's an interesting parallel

508
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 5: there to the loyalty that Ellie feels for Joel, because

509
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 5: that is why Joel was her community and I loved

510
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 5: that line. I'm also very interested to see where they

511
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 5: take this because one of the big criticisms of Last

512
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 5: of Us two is when Jesse is killed by Abby.

513
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 5: It is very much like she says, like Jesse and

514
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 5: then that's kind of it and there's not necessarily like

515
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 5: a lot of retribution, or it's not often spoken about,

516
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 5: and she just kind of gets on with it. But

517
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 5: I feel like after that conversation, there's no way that's

518
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 5: going to be the case here. And I think that

519
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 5: coming to terms with it and understanding. You know, a

520
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 5: lot of people have been asking what is how are

521
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 5: they going to end this show when we've already had

522
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 5: the porch flashback. Maybe it's not just about Joel. Maybe

523
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 5: Ellie's choice to forgive is about Jesse. Maybe it's about

524
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 5: somebody else.

525
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think another reason why this and Mel's death,

526
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: the Jesse scene and Mel's death are so important. Are

527
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: they lay the groundwork for Ellie taking responsibility for everything

528
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: that's happened and not putting it on Abby. Yes, Abby

529
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: killed Jesse. Jesse's only there because Ellie went there alone

530
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: drug Dina, the mother of Jesse's child, and made all

531
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: these people come after her, and then refused to go

532
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: back when they had the chance to go back. So

533
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: I think that it's gonna be very important for that turn,

534
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: if that's the way they decide to go, because you're

535
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: going to realize she actually doesn't blame Abby for that death.

536
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 4: It's her fault she did that.

537
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: I wanted to bring up recent some Oh, let's let's

538
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: take a quick break and then come back talk more

539
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: or less of us too, and we're back. So Craig

540
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: Mason recently came out and said he expects season three

541
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: to be longer than season two, saying there's no way

542
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: to complete this narrative in a third season, especially listen,

543
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: at which point I wanted to say, yeah, especially if

544
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: you only do seven episodes.

545
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 4: Let's figure out how to do more.

546
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, but game timeline wise, I also think that's an

547
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 5: absolutely wild thing to say, unless there's a specific route

548
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: that they go, which is what I think they're going

549
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 5: to do.

550
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 6: But yeah, that's just shocking someone who's not played the game.

551
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 6: How the percentage of the way through game two are

552
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 6: we right now? Roughly seventy?

553
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, you could finish it in season three, but I

554
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 5: think my guess is that they will. Season three will

555
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 5: basically just be Abby's journey. I think that's the only

556
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 5: way it.

557
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 4: Makes Mostly I think it would mostly Abby's.

558
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 5: Journey and then you get to this moment, and then

559
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 5: I guess season four is going to be however they

560
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 5: want to expand out this Abby and Ellie moment, but yeah,

561
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 5: hopefully longer. I would say eight episodes. I would have

562
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 5: loved an extra episode in this season for sure. But yeah,

563
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 5: very interesting to say that in the lead up to

564
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 5: the final episode when yeah, we are we are almost

565
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 5: done with the game.

566
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 6: You know what extra episode we should have gotten? We

567
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 6: should have gotten a Jesse episode.

568
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 5: Oh god, damn, you're so right. I would have fucking

569
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 5: I agree, especially like young Massino, like don't waste him.

570
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: Yea honestly lucky so talent.

571
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: I love Esse Jesse so much it may happen, we

572
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 4: may get that.

573
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: I do. That's a.

574
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 6: Two weeks with the painter.

575
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 7: First of all, that would have been a great like

576
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 7: and the same way I think Happy Journey at the

577
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 7: top would have been really great to see like her,

578
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 7: like the story you knowd about her eight year old self, uh,

579
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 7: discovering her family and stuff. I do sort of wish

580
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 7: we had like a bunch of vignettes of like Jackson Hole,

581
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 7: like in the same way we have those kickoffs at

582
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 7: the in season one where it's like, oh, this is

583
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 7: someone predicting.

584
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: That mushrooms could survive.

585
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 7: Oh this is someone discovering like, oh, you gotta bomb

586
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 7: things because it's gonna get a hand so fast.

587
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 5: Gray, that's a great point that feels so different to

588
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 5: anything we got in season two. I would have loved

589
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 5: a little bit, a little bit better an anthology sprinkle.

590
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: Percent.

591
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 7: I think those moments were great. And just to quickly

592
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 7: circle back to Jesse, I think the way they made

593
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 7: us fall in love with Jesse, like he was the

594
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 7: future and you've ruined it.

595
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 5: He's the most thoughtful, kind, empathetic, generous. He's so generous

596
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 5: with his time with his friendship. Like the fact that

597
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 5: he didn't just disown Ellie when she essentially like started

598
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 5: immediately dating his girlfriend. Like he had such a fantastic

599
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 5: vision of what a community came.

600
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: Back for me?

601
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 7: Why such addic to him?

602
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: He was still such a piece of shit. It felt

603
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: like such a piece of shit to him.

604
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 6: Jesse was like Captain America and Ellie's like Wolverine. Like

605
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 6: every time you see them together in the comics, it's

606
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 6: like one of you really has your shit together.

607
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 4: Otherwise it is just like a loose cannon.

608
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: You know, Aaron, you made a good point that I

609
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: think is really important when uh, when Ellie tells Dina

610
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: about the tell the digital story about Salt Lake City

611
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: and all that, and then Dina's mad about it and shocked,

612
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: but then the next day it seems like it's okay.

613
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: There was something so true about the way relationships work

614
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: in that moment where you know, if you've ever gotten

615
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: on a big fight on vacation or like home for

616
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: the holidays, something you know, in a place where we

617
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: can't talk about this. Okay, listen, we can't talk about

618
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: this now, and it hasn't gone away, but we're going

619
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: to get through this moment right here, and you can

620
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: bet that we're going to come back and we're going

621
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: to talk about that.

622
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 5: But now it needs to be like Incahoo's.

623
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: We need to be now, we need to get through

624
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving or whatever it is.

625
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 4: You know, like that's so real.

626
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: And all these Jesse moments had that ring of truth

627
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: about a person you really understood who Jesse was not

628
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: in just like things he said, but in the fact

629
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: that he showed up like he showed.

630
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 4: He didn't have to show up.

631
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: How many times has he saved Ellie's life, and she

632
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: could barely say thank you, like and barely recognize what's happening.

633
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: And that's why again, I just felt like it was

634
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: so important for her to call her, for him to

635
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 2: call her out, not Tommy, who is honestly one of.

636
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 4: These forces who.

637
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: Spoil is the long word, but like allowed Ellie to

638
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: get away with fucking murder.

639
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, to get to this point, and.

640
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: It was so important that her contemporary who's on a

641
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: completely different track, say hey, look at what look at

642
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 2: what you're doing, Like, look what you're doing to all

643
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 2: of us. That was so important and really ran true.

644
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 5: So, speaking of things that the showrunners have been.

645
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 3: Said, let's talk a little bit about.

646
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 5: This comment that I do think is quite a divisive one. Recently,

647
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 5: when asked if the Fireflies could have successfully created a

648
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 5: vaccine had Joel not killed them, Neil Druckman, creator of

649
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 5: the show and of you know, the game, our intent

650
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 5: was yes they could, He replied, This is so wild

651
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 5: to me.

652
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: This is a bad joy.

653
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 5: This is one of the absolute reasons that this game

654
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 5: has stayed in the public consciousness and conversation for so long,

655
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 5: because we do not know and because people want to

656
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 5: talk about it. People want to imagine what they would do,

657
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 5: how they would deal with it. Joel is you know,

658
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 5: to many people who played the game, he is in

659
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: the right, he is a hero. They are not as

660
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 5: horrified by what he did. And I think that Druckman

661
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 5: Amazon did a great job, as we've talked about quite

662
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 5: extensively in season one finale, of showcasing just how horrific

663
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 5: what Joel did was. But also in this season we

664
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 5: have seen the scars, we have seen the WLF. These

665
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 5: are people who will destroy other people, who will torture

666
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 5: other people, who will kill other people. So the world

667
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 5: that they live in is violent.

668
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: You know.

669
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 5: Violence is kind of at the heart of everything in

670
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 5: the show, except for what we see in Jackson Hole.

671
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 5: And I think that this is just absolutely a wild

672
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 5: thing to say, because it completely changes and ends a

673
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 5: lot of the conversations. Aaron, when we were in the

674
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 5: group chat talking about this, how is you're feeling As

675
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 5: someone who has not played the game.

676
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 6: I prefer not knowing, And I am shocked to hear

677
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 6: you say that that is one of the reasons that

678
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,479
Speaker 6: the game has remained so powerful, because that's the kind

679
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 6: of mental, philosophical question that most video games do not even.

680
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 3: Attempt to tackle.

681
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 6: And so the fact that this game did it is

682
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 6: amazing and the fact that we lost it is horrible.

683
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 5: Joelle, tell me more, Joel, because you are like, you know,

684
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 5: all of us thereah creatives and Joelle is a fantastic

685
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 5: writer in case you didn't know, So from a writer's perspective,

686
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 5: could you talk a little bit about how that hit

687
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 5: for you.

688
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: I think what.

689
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 7: It just it zaps a lot of the energy out

690
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 7: of the game, Like it is a different vehicle, So

691
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 7: let's putting you in jewel shoes, so you not knowing

692
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 7: important out and also not being able to make a

693
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 7: different choice. Like it puts you in a very strange

694
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 7: place of like you're understanding his like confusion.

695
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: You don't want to do what he's doing. He's still doing.

696
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 7: It is like this very strange like tandem relationship of destruction.

697
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 7: And it really hinges on not knowing because if you know,

698
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 7: then you're just playing.

699
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: The baddy, which can be fun.

700
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 7: You know, game takes a lot of the energy out

701
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 7: for the show. I think it removes a lot of

702
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 7: the friction between Abby and Ellie, and I think, yeah,

703
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 7: that's it makes Abby, right, Yeah, yeah, because otherwise, what

704
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 7: you're left with the two women stepping into their like

705
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 7: adulthood and leadership positions and both really struggling with the

706
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 7: paths what's been done to them and with their future

707
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 7: and how they want to live it. And that's really

708
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 7: in they're totally even at this point, both so justified

709
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 7: and understandably. It's way different if it's like Joel was

710
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 7: a dick and now you're a dick and you're Abby, Like,

711
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 7: I guess you got a shooter girl, because that's the

712
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 7: rules of this universe, Like I don't know else. You

713
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 7: you need that confusion in the town. And I understand

714
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 7: as a creator like wanting to share like, oh no,

715
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 7: Joel's totally.

716
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 5: So if you think he's right and obviously off to

717
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 5: the first season, I will say that was like as

718
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 5: as we've mentioned, there's been a lot of really wild

719
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 5: online this course about this show throughout its history, but

720
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 5: at the end of season one there was like a

721
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 5: lot of people who are super mad about the way

722
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 5: Joel was portrayed, who felt like he was so I

723
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 5: do also imagine that there is a eagerness on Druckman's

724
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 5: pot to kind of maybe make the morals and ethics

725
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 5: of the show and its character.

726
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 7: Like the horrors of violence, and people keep coming away

727
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 7: with like he was right, imagine your head is a wall.

728
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 4: Why don't people understand?

729
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: I think that.

730
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: I think from a process point of view, right you're

731
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: in the writer's room, I think it is it makes

732
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: complete sense to come to to have a direction in

733
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: that sense in terms of could could the fireflies actually

734
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: have done it? To discuss that and to but like

735
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: I do think that to your point, there's a reason

736
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: why we still talk about the Sopranos, and it's because

737
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: you just don't know you discussed that's you're dissecting it.

738
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: You're wondering which way does this break and does it

739
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: even matter to you?

740
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 4: An answer?

741
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: Right?

742
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 4: And I think in that.

743
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: Way, not knowing hues more closely to what life is like,

744
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: like it's just a road not taken, it's a it's

745
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: a and knowing makes it more explicitly a video games story.

746
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: We can play it again now knowing what it happened, you.

747
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: Know what I mean?

748
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: And so I think it does to me. It makes

749
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: it a little less cool, the story a little less

750
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: magical and resonant to actually know that they could have

751
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: done it.

752
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: I always lean that way in my heart, but not

753
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 4: knowing too. It's sort of why we love talking about

754
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 4: this story.

755
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 5: It's also kind of hilarious to come down on it

756
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 5: on one side like that, because, as we have pointed

757
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 5: out many times, both in the games and in the games,

758
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 5: there is more evidence with the notes and the recordings

759
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 5: that maybe the Five fars one to something. But in

760
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 5: the show in the game both it did not look

761
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 5: like they were going to do any good science in

762
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 5: that hospital, like Salt Lake City, did not look like

763
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 5: they were making anything that was going to come close.

764
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 4: But like, I.

765
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 5: Think that is another thing where it's just kind of

766
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 5: if it's this moral black and white choice and the

767
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 5: idea is yeah, they could have, then make me believe

768
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 5: it in the story as well.

769
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 6: Have been good ever come from a creator after the

770
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 6: work is finished and published, like saying something additional, just

771
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 6: tell me, like who the main character's favorite band is

772
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 6: into it, to get on.

773
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 7: The back and be like, no, that's not what I

774
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 7: was trying to do.

775
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: Just hold on.

776
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: Okay.

777
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 5: Another big kind of news point that we should hit

778
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 5: on post the finale is drug Men revealed that they

779
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 5: were actually working on a different game other than intercollect

780
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 5: which we got the which I'm really excited about because

781
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 5: it has Tatty Gabrielle as he character. She's amazing. I

782
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 5: love that they saw how good she was as Noura

783
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 5: and wanted to give her a Biggert space, but everyone thought,

784
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 5: well that was it. So is part of the reason

785
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 5: that they're saying, well, we can't finish the story in

786
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 5: three seasons because the new game is going to be

787
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 5: last of US part three and it comes out alongside

788
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 5: season four, and that is kind of what they corporate synergy.

789
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 4: You can see it coming right big. It makes absolutely

790
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 4: too much sense.

791
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 7: I mean.

792
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 5: Dropping these nuggets like in her bro you know.

793
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 3: So I feel like, yes, that's what.

794
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 4: Makes way too much sense, Jason. And by the way,

795
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 4: the last thing you.

796
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: Want, as if you're drunk man, I think, is for

797
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: a season of television to come out that blows up

798
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: your game. They need to come out true in tandem

799
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: or basically at the same time, so.

800
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 4: One does not necessarily spoil the other.

801
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: That's Jason, what I think they would want as.

802
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 5: Someone who's played the games like many times, and it

803
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,479
Speaker 5: is what would you want to see in a Loss

804
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 5: of Us Part three, like where does it go for you?

805
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 3: What do you want to look at? Who does it?

806
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 5: Well?

807
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 4: Listen, it's an open world racing game. You can play

808
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 4: as a cow well, I mean listen.

809
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: Uh. Coming to this with you know, with storyteller brain,

810
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: having been storyteller pilled not to see this as an

811
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: elaborate kind of to see like a a WWE slash

812
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: superhero structure in this What do I mean? You have

813
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 2: Hero one and Hero two, they meet, they don't get along,

814
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: they hate each other, They fight, fight, fight, fight fight.

815
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 4: Then what happens?

816
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 5: Uh Uh?

817
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 4: I don't know how it would happen.

818
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: I don't know how it would happen, but it feels

819
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 2: like the only place Listen, you know how storytelling goes

820
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: character A can't do this thing, refuses to do this thing.

821
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 2: The arc must be that they do the thing right.

822
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: How do they get together? How do they cooperate? I

823
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: think that that's the only place this story can go.

824
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 4: And the fact that.

825
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: You can't imagine how it will get there means that

826
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: you know, Druckman and Amazing are really going to be

827
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: or Druckman, you know, primarily is really.

828
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 4: Going to be in the lab making it make sense that.

829
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: They would get to that place where they cooperate. I

830
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 2: think that's the only place that it can.

831
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 5: Also as well, maybe some kind of quest to undo

832
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 5: what Joel did and find a cute I heard a rumor.

833
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 7: That Tommy was going to be the main character of

834
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 7: the third game, and if that's the case, it makes

835
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 7: a lot of sense to me that they gave him

836
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 7: a kid in this season, which he does not have

837
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 7: in the game, right, and it sort of like helps

838
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 7: you fast tracked whatever is going on in game three.

839
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 1: Potentially this is just a rumor, and I.

840
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 7: Like the idea of, like if what we're continuing in

841
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 7: is like what's left behind in the legacy. You've got

842
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 7: so many children on the board right now. We've got

843
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 7: Dina's kid, We've got Tommy's kid. We don't really know

844
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 7: what's going on with Abby and her stuff, but I imagine

845
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 7: we get some form of like younger sibling or apprentice

846
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 7: or whatever from there, and maybe what we're seeing is

847
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 7: Tommy trying to help that generation not end up like

848
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 7: the ones.

849
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 5: That would be a really delightful kind of What would

850
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 5: interest you most is someone who hasn't watched the game,

851
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 5: if you were going to kind of paint a season

852
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 5: four or season three that you would want that doesn't

853
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 5: go along with what you know of the game and

854
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: just is based on what you've seen in the show.

855
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 5: What do you think you'd be most interested in continuing

856
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 5: to explore?

857
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 6: I mean, Jason said it. I think, yeah, the two

858
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 6: of them teaming up there there's some way that actually

859
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 6: someone else has an idea of how to make a

860
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 6: vaccine and the two of them go and now like,

861
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 6: let's fix it.

862
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, get.

863
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 6: You know, the sins of our fathers and hear me right,

864
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 6: So that would be I think a slam dunk.

865
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 5: That sounds honestly pretty fantastic. Okay, last questions before we

866
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 5: wrap it up.

867
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 3: What do you need to.

868
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 5: See in season three to make you care about Abby?

869
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 5: After we saw her just shoot Jesse in the face,

870
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 5: you know, Joel whatever. We've kind of talked about that,

871
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 5: but Joel and Aaron, what do you need to see

872
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 5: to care about Abby? And thighs with her situation?

873
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: I already care about Abby.

874
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 7: The show makes a really strong and decisive decision to

875
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 7: be like from go you understand like why what Abby's morning?

876
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 7: And because that rage has already been cemented twice already

877
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 7: with Joel and Ellie. It's very easy to understand, like

878
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 7: it's it's.

879
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: Part of the disease.

880
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 7: And in the same way twenty eight days later is

881
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 7: like the rage is the thing that turns you. I

882
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 7: really think like there's parallels here between like, oh god,

883
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 7: the community versus the individual. The mushrooms are a community,

884
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 7: they work really well together. Rage is dividing these humans,

885
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 7: is stopping them from being able to come together and

886
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 7: work together. And so I think for me, what I'm

887
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 7: hoping we get out of Abby is like.

888
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: It's I mean, I almost don't. I love Belle Ramsey.

889
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 7: They should be able to do whatever, but I almost

890
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 7: don't want to see them in the next season. I

891
00:47:54,719 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 7: think it would It would be challenging in all so,

892
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 7: I know it's really difficult in our current time to

893
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 7: figure out, like as a studio, like how do we

894
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 7: protect our performers and still tell a good story. There's

895
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 7: a lot of balance to be Like if you just

896
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 7: remove Bella Ramsay, is that like when Star Wars just

897
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 7: hate the characters people didn't like and like manage them.

898
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 7: Is Rosico just gone? Or is this part of the

899
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 7: certain And so it has to be tactically done. I

900
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 7: think Craig's got a deft enough pen to nail it.

901
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 7: But I would like to see is just it's just

902
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 7: purely Abby's journey, so that by the time we get

903
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 7: to that gun pull, wear fully understanding all three sixty

904
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 7: sides of it, and the final episode is the resolution

905
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 7: fallout of that moment.

906
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what are you hearing?

907
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 6: I mean I want some sweet moments of Abby and

908
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 6: her friends because we have only really seen her be

909
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 6: upset with them and short with them, and she is

910
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 6: so filled with rage and these people who have done

911
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 6: something horrible with her and they're the ones paying the price. Yeah,

912
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 6: for her, and they're the ones paying the price give

913
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 6: me a reason to This is the wrong phrase, but

914
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 6: to know it was worth it?

915
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 4: Like is she what are these people?

916
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 3: They love her?

917
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 6: Yeah?

918
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it?

919
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 5: So?

920
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 6: I want to know more about that. I understand she

921
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 6: lost her father. I need I need more about why

922
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 6: so many people trusted her? And I mean, you know,

923
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 6: she's like tapped in to be the new face of

924
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 6: the w LF, Like why is everyone so in on her?

925
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 6: When to me, she's like, right now a really good

926
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 6: mirror for Ellie, who we know is not going to

927
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 6: be taking over Jackson Hole from what I can see, like,

928
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 6: how are these what's the difference with Avy? So that's

929
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 6: what I want to see.

930
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

931
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 5: Also, just before we finished, Jason, you brought up the sopranos.

932
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 5: Let's talk about the ending, Jason, how did that work?

933
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 4: Back?

934
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 5: It's You're gonna this is like a crazy nineties style

935
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 5: ambiguous ending.

936
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 3: But how are people going to I know that you.

937
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 5: Guys, there's going to be people who are so mad

938
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 5: about this.

939
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: Reactions which is the stame react Basically, I have to

940
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 2: any effective Clive, which is one like fuck you.

941
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 4: And that's why that's why you're not you don't.

942
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: Have the balls to do it. I know you don't,

943
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 2: and there's the and then there's the maybe you do.

944
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 2: So I thought it was very effective and I also

945
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: like listen and I think a lot of people are

946
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: gonna have that reaction like fuck you?

947
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 4: Are you serious? Fuck you? Craig? What about you? Everybody's reaction?

948
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 4: What are your reactions?

949
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: I mean, just wow?

950
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 7: Really, because I think, especially because what you're really stuck

951
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 7: in is not even that gunshot.

952
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: I still thinking about Jesse, like I can't.

953
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 4: Like you don't even have time, you don't have time

954
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 4: to process it.

955
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 7: No, it's so chaotic and it's so and like, you know,

956
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 7: for Tommy to be like run, You're like, there's no

957
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 7: running from this, Tommy to please get grow up. You're

958
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 7: worried about like where's Dina. We don't even see her.

959
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 7: Hopefully she's hiding.

960
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: But for how long is that work?

961
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 7: But really you're just like we just lost everything, Like

962
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 7: really it's crazy because we didn't get a lot of

963
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 7: time with Jesse, but you're just like it's all gone.

964
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 5: It was such an emmy performance.

965
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 7: He truly was so solid, and I think like that

966
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 7: to me makes the freezing of time feel right, Like

967
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 7: it's it's so chaotic and it's so emotionally overwrought and

968
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 7: she's like, and just stay suspended here, We'll be right back.

969
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 7: I was like, I love this, this really Workstreme, what

970
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 7: about you?

971
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 5: Hear?

972
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 6: I mean, it was a huge shock and I loved it,

973
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 6: And now looking back at it, I am glad that

974
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 6: they didn't cut to black and then do Ellie's recording

975
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 6: of take on Me by Aha. I would have been yeah.

976
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 5: But you know what I think you I agree with

977
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 5: all of you. And I also think, like, now we've

978
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 5: talked about it, if they really do not have Bella

979
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 5: in season three and that's how they end, that's gonna

980
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 5: be some brave fucking TV.

981
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 3: If you don't get solution.

982
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 5: Told the finale of season three to know the outcome,

983
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 5: and that is there's the ninety percent of you're not

984
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 5: fucking brave enough, but there's the ten percent of, oh

985
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 5: what if you are?

986
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 7: It's not taking notes from folks, So it feels like

987
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 7: whatever we have is like exactly his vision is Neils

988
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 7: and so yeah, I'm excited to see what happens.

989
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 2: Well, that's it for our the last of US two

990
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: season finale round table chow. Thank you so much for

991
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: joining us. Coming up in the next few episodes of

992
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: Extra Vision, we're continuing to look at summer movies with

993
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: the history of the stunts in the Mission Impossible franchise.

994
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: The next week, we have a sendoff for the beloved

995
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 2: Nintendo Switch and a look back at the John Wick

996
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 2: franchise as we get ready for an indie armist in

997
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 2: Ballerina that tip.

998
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 4: This episode, X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion.

999
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 5: I'm Rosie Knight.

1000
00:52:58,520 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 4: And is a production of iheartpot.

1001
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 5: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

1002
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

1003
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,879
Speaker 5: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.

1004
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1005
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kauffman.

1006
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 5: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

1007
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 5: Heidi Our discord moderator