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Speaker 1: Attention Bechdel Cast listeners.

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Speaker 2: We're going on tour, baby, and it's not just any tour.

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Speaker 2: It's the Shrek Tannic Tour. That's right. Shrek and or

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Speaker 2: Titanic are the movies recovering on this tour at the

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Speaker 2: demand of us, and you question mark, see you there,

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Speaker 2: We'll figure it out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our first leg of the tour is in London on

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Speaker 1: May twenty second. There are two shows that night, a

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Speaker 1: six point thirty show on Shrek and a nine o'clock

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Speaker 1: show on Titanic.

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Speaker 2: Next, on May twenty fourth, we are going to be

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Speaker 2: in Oxford as a part of the Saint Audio Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 1: Then we're scooting up to Edinburgh. On May twenty sixth

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Speaker 1: we are covering Shrek.

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Speaker 2: Then on May twenty eighth we are in Manchester once

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Speaker 2: again covering Titanic.

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Speaker 1: And finally a show that we recently added in Dublin

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Speaker 1: on May twenty ninth that is also a Titanic show.

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Speaker 2: We're so excited to meet everybody. We chose two of

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Speaker 2: our favorite movies so that we can celebrate the community

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Speaker 2: and just have a good time. So please come out.

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Speaker 2: You can get all of the tickets over at our

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Speaker 2: link Tree, which is in the description link Tree slash

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast, and we hope to see you there. We

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Speaker 2: have such ridiculous outfits, oh my gosh, and exclusive merch

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Speaker 2: and everything else.

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Speaker 1: So all right, we will see you there.

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Speaker 2: See you there.

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Speaker 4: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 4: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 4: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zeph and

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Speaker 4: Vast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Gool Googga, I'm horny, Hi, Caitlin, Daddy, God, are you there.

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Speaker 1: It's me Bella Baxter.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's me. God. Let me rationalize why I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be treating you this way for the whole movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. When you entered with google Gaga, I thought,

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Speaker 3: since we had just done a sink that required us

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Speaker 3: to count to five, I thought you'd just like run

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Speaker 3: out of numbers, that you know, and started entering sounds.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, that was me starting the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said that, because this is actually

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Speaker 2: how we start every episode. We always start with a

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Speaker 2: goog go gaga. Oh, just to make everyone feel safe,

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Speaker 2: I mean Google Gaga is kind of one of the

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Speaker 2: great equalizers we still have. We've all been there.

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Speaker 3: True, that is so true. We all are just human

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Speaker 3: beings during the babbling stage.

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Speaker 2: It's true. I mean, what is a podcast if not

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of Google Gaga. We are just in.

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Speaker 3: A prolonged babbling stage.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bexel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Droonte. This is our show where

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Speaker 1: we examine movies through an intersectional FELM this lens, using

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. I'm like

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Speaker 1: sort of over explaining what the Bechdel test is. I

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Speaker 1: feel like people can just look it up. I'm just tired.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Caitlyn is taking no prisoners today.

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Speaker 1: Google Goga.

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Speaker 2: I'm tired Google Gaga. Look it up, read a book.

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Speaker 2: I guess this is an aggressive way to start the show.

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Speaker 2: There are like three hundred episodes, so if you don't know,

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Speaker 2: you can listen to the beginning of a different episode.

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Speaker 2: We're really eager to get today's episode started, is the thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and also we talk about the Bechdel test basically not

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Speaker 2: at all, sup.

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Speaker 1: Right, And there's so much else to talk about with

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Speaker 1: this movie, which is poor things. Yes, that we just

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Speaker 1: have to save all the time we can.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, cut the foreplay right.

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Speaker 2: The only quick disclaimer we want to give it the

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Speaker 2: top is that if you're listening to this, I feel

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Speaker 2: like when we cover a movie shortly after it comes out,

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Speaker 2: it always ages a little weird because it just came out.

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Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this, it just came out

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Speaker 2: recording it the day after Emma Stone won the Best

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Speaker 2: Actress Oscar. Chances are if you listen to this episode

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Speaker 2: a year from now, I at least will probably feel

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Speaker 2: different about this movie. Name yeah, probably so Yeah. If

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Speaker 2: you go back and listen to us talk about a

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Speaker 2: movie shortly after it comes out, usually our feelings change.

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Speaker 2: But we've decided today and two hours or less, we

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Speaker 2: are going to be the three people to crack this movie.

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Speaker 2: God damn it.

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Speaker 3: You know, our takes will age. I'm not gonna say

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Speaker 3: like a fine wine, and I'm not gonna say like milk.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna say like a cheese cause, you know, like

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Speaker 3: a fresh guda. It tastes different than like a twenty

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Speaker 3: four month age guda. I don't know how long you

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Speaker 3: should age Gouda.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wow, a lot of knowledge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so much fucking cheese knowledge. I do love Dary,

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Speaker 3: despite what my tummy tells me. But I do think that,

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Speaker 3: like you know, this is just like the fresh gooda

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Speaker 3: version of an opinion about poor things.

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Speaker 2: That's all I think. That's a beautiful way to put it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: this is the Poor Things episode. Literally hundreds of you

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Speaker 2: have asked for this episode. Okay, here it is. Hope

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Speaker 2: you're happy.

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Speaker 3: You're really dumbing your listeners today.

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Speaker 2: I know, I don't know. I think it's when we

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Speaker 2: record more than one episode in a day, the second

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Speaker 2: episode gets like needlessly agro But you can say that

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Speaker 2: of this movie as well. Okay, we're covering poor Things.

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Speaker 2: It just came out and we have an incredible guest

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Speaker 2: to figure it out with us.

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Speaker 1: Yes we do. She is the author of Cultish and

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Speaker 1: the forthcoming book The Age of Magical Overthinking. She's the

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Speaker 1: host of the podcast sounds like a cult It's Amanda Montelho.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome. Before we get into it, tell us a

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Speaker 2: little bit about the new book.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that's so nice of you to ask. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's called The Age of Magical Overthinking Notes on modern irrationality,

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Speaker 3: and it's about cognitive biases in the information age modern

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Speaker 3: day do Lulu. So every chapter of the book is

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Speaker 3: dedicated to a different cognitive bias. Confirmation bias, sunk cost fallacy.

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Speaker 3: These are some of the most famous, but there are

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Speaker 3: some other really interesting ones called like the Ikea effect

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Speaker 3: and the Halo effect. And I use each of these

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Speaker 3: as a lens to explore some mysterious irrationality plaguing the

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Speaker 3: zeitgeist and my own life, from celebrity warship to weaponized

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Speaker 3: nostalgia to Instagram manifestation Gurus, So check it out.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. That is so exciting. Huge fans of your work

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Speaker 2: Here on the pod, we simply are so excited that

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Speaker 2: you're doing the show.

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Speaker 3: H mutual fandom all around, Yippie Google, Gotga Goo Goga.

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Speaker 2: We're just like excited little babies. That's my favorite part.

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Speaker 2: I started going to yoga classes in the last year.

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Speaker 1: Whoe brag.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not to flag, but almost every morning I like

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Speaker 2: go and then at the end of class you get

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Speaker 2: to be a little.

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Speaker 3: Baby, happy baby. I know that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just get to roll around on your back

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Speaker 2: and goo goo gaga and some beautiful person teaching the

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Speaker 2: class comes and like moves your foot a little bit

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Speaker 2: and it's like a little horny, but you're like, whatever,

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Speaker 2: I'm a baby. That's my poor things. Is beautiful yoga

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Speaker 2: teacher adjusting my foot while I'm a little baby. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's get into it, folks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Amanda, what is your really? I mean, the movie

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Speaker 1: just came out. Did you see in theaters? Preliminary thoughts?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I saw it under really iconic circumstances. I

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Speaker 3: was living in the woods and I watched it in

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Speaker 3: like the one room movie theater that they have in

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Speaker 3: this tiny Woodland town. They pour like the most generous

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Speaker 3: movie pores of wine I've ever seen in my life

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Speaker 3: at this tiny Woodland movie amazing. They were just like,

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Speaker 3: you know what, We're gonna even give you a little

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Speaker 3: extra because this film is wacky. Girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean poor things, generous, poor.

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Speaker 2: Heavy, poor thing.

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Speaker 3: Hello, yeah, they poor things, they did, they poor things.

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Speaker 2: I love that system of like we'll give you as

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Speaker 2: much wine as the movie requires.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It was very that, which I appreciated so much.

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Speaker 3: And they also like provide blankets at that movie theater

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Speaker 3: so in case you got a little chilli, you can

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Speaker 3: cozy on up. So I was cozy as hell watching

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Speaker 3: this film and buzzed. And I went in with low

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Speaker 3: expectations just because like your Ghosts is a masturbatory fellow

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Speaker 3: and like I don't love masterbatory fellows h. So I

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Speaker 3: was going in with low expectations but high hopes a

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Speaker 3: good attitude. I also, like have a slight bias against

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Speaker 3: Emma Stone as an ongenu, which we can get into,

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Speaker 3: like I don't love her in an aure new role.

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Speaker 3: I like her as a character actor, and this was

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Speaker 3: kind of both. So I loved it. I mean, we'll

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Speaker 3: just I mean, this is the whole point of this podcast,

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Speaker 3: in this episode is to talk about it and get

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Speaker 3: into it. But I felt like I went in with

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Speaker 3: the right attitude to enjoy the film, and indeed I did.

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Speaker 1: Jamie, how about you.

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Speaker 2: I have seen this movie three times now. I saw

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Speaker 2: it right when it came out. I saw it in theaters,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know, I think that in part like

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Speaker 2: this was a movie where I saw it, I think

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Speaker 2: the week after it came out, and almost certainly the

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Speaker 2: discourse that I was avoiding still ended up coloring my

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Speaker 2: first viewing of the movie because I like your goes.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen all of his work, but he has

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Speaker 2: hit or miss for me, and there's certain I think,

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Speaker 2: just in general, and we've talked about this on the

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Speaker 2: show for years at this point, there are a lot

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Speaker 2: of movies that I think are like technically good, but

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Speaker 2: it's always going to be hard for me to be

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Speaker 2: sold on work from a man adapted from another man's

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Speaker 2: work about a woman discovering and being liberated by her body,

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Speaker 2: Like it always just feels, even when it's really well done,

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Speaker 2: it's like hard to get me in the door for that.

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Speaker 2: That was like a big conversation we had around Carrie.

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Speaker 2: A movie I quite like, but it's like a man

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Speaker 2: adapted by a man viewed by a man, like you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you can't get something good out of it,

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Speaker 2: but like I always come in a little bit leery

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Speaker 2: on it. And so the first time I saw it,

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Speaker 2: I left really conflicted, like conflicted leaning on not enjoying it.

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Speaker 2: And then the second time I watched it, I had

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Speaker 2: done some research on the author, I learned a little

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Speaker 2: bit more about the adaptation, and the second and third

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Speaker 2: viewings I'm liking it more and more each time, which

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Speaker 2: turns out I have a very complicated relationship with this movie.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's a lot that it's doing that's

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Speaker 2: really interesting, not all of it hits for me, And

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Speaker 2: then there's like Jerrod Carmichael's performers, there's just like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know. I'm hoping to figure out

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Speaker 2: how I feel about this movie today. I have thousands

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Speaker 2: of worts of notes, and I feel no. I know

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Speaker 2: that when I first saw it, I didn't like it,

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Speaker 2: but I felt that way about almost every Yorgo slanthemost

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Speaker 2: movie that I end up coming around on, except for

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Speaker 2: the Favorite, which I just liked every single time. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Actually, your story of your journey reminds me of the

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Speaker 3: most important piece of backstory that I failed to mention,

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Speaker 3: which is that I wasn't even gonna see the movie

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Speaker 3: because I felt already like it was so fucking proud

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Speaker 3: of itself, which irked me right. But then several people

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Speaker 3: who I know to varying degrees of well but since

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Speaker 3: computes independently texted me being like, Amanda, you must see

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Speaker 3: it because of the clothes, Oh, I mean yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and everybody should see it because of the clothes. But

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Speaker 3: I mean it was like a perfect manifestation of what

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Speaker 3: I aspire to dress. Like I was shook by it,

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Speaker 3: And people who don't even know me very well, we're

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Speaker 3: texting me like, Amanda, this movie's clothes, it's you, it's you,

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Speaker 3: especially because like I'm recently engaged. I did the proposing,

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Speaker 3: which I always feel the need to Ooh, I love

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Speaker 3: that disclaim and I want to wear like a super

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Speaker 3: colorful surrealist look on.

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Speaker 2: My Gonnabella Baxter dress.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, so people were like, watch the movie for

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Speaker 3: your bridal inspo basically, and not her bridle gown. The

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Speaker 3: rest of it, like the mini buttery yellow shorts and

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Speaker 3: the puffy.

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Speaker 2: Blue the blue dress nonsense, Yeah, unbelievable. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the technical elements of this movie I really love. Like

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Speaker 2: the movie is beautiful. Yorgos Anthemus knows how to make

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Speaker 2: a gorgeous movie. I don't know. I feel bad now

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Speaker 2: being like I didn't come in on this movie side

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Speaker 2: because I just get so I was talking about it

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Speaker 2: with my boyfriend afterwards, like I just get so irked

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Speaker 2: at going into a movie and having mostly male critics

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Speaker 2: say like this is the feminist movie of the year,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, well, how would you know that? And

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Speaker 2: then's made by like seven hundred men. I think what

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Speaker 2: I've come around on and this is something that I

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Speaker 2: feel like has not been super discussed, I guess with

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Speaker 2: this and with Barbie, because also this movie was existing

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Speaker 2: in conversation with Barbie, which I'm like, just let them

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Speaker 2: be separate movies. But a lot of the things I

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Speaker 2: had concerns about with this movie I was put more

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Speaker 2: at ease with upon learning that Emma Stone was an

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Speaker 2: executive producer on the movie, and so she was very

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Speaker 2: much in control of every high level decision, and that

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Speaker 2: made me feel better about a lot of stuff that

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Speaker 2: seemed to be an ongoing discourse, which we'll get around

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Speaker 2: to anyways. I think I like it. I don't know, Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: what's your history of this.

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Speaker 1: I also saw it when it came out in theaters

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Speaker 1: and maybe like a week after it opened, and then

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Speaker 1: watched it twice. To prefer this, I've also seen it

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Speaker 1: three times. I would say I think I like it

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Speaker 1: less and less every time I see it.

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Speaker 2: Wow, we all have different trajectories.

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Speaker 1: The things I like about it, I maintain liking about it.

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Speaker 1: For example, a lot of Bella's dialogue and the way

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Speaker 1: she speaks, and just kind of her general character arc

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Speaker 1: I enjoy. For the most part, there are certain scenes

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Speaker 1: that I think are really funny, Just like the shot

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Speaker 1: where it's a close up of Bella Baxter, a closeup

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Speaker 1: of Max mccandle's and then a close up of a

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Speaker 1: goat is the funniest thing I've seen in a movie

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Speaker 1: in a while. I think the movie is like very

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Speaker 1: well cast and well acted, Like, oh my gosh, Mark

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Speaker 1: Ruffalo's performance, Hello, I loved it. He's gifted around. Obviously

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Speaker 1: his character is despicable, but everyone's doing a great job acting.

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Speaker 1: The production design is interesting, the fish eye lenses, sure,

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Speaker 1: But generally I hate Yorgoslanthemos. I don't like these movies.

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Speaker 3: He's so polarizing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, Dog Tooth and The Lobster and a handful

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Speaker 1: of others. Generally I don't mind the Favorite, but like

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Speaker 1: a lot of his earlier work really upsets me. And

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Speaker 1: he has this fixation on showing cruelty to animals and

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Speaker 1: he does it and every single one of his movies.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean that is The Lobster that's the whole

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Speaker 2: movie of the Lobster. And then it also just appears

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Speaker 2: in all of his other movies, either as like a

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Speaker 2: joke or as just something that's there for no reason.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can't stand it and it makes me hate.

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Speaker 3: It is very contrarian because I don't know if anyone

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Speaker 3: else received this as a literal piece of like creative advice.

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Speaker 3: But I remember a college writing instructor sort of problematically

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Speaker 3: announcing to the class that a way to make a

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Speaker 3: character and you're writing more likable was to have a

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Speaker 3: scene where they're nice to an animal.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the whole premise of the screenwriting books save

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Speaker 1: the Cat.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, got it all right, So that's like conventional wisdom.

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Speaker 3: But I feel like your ghost this is a part

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Speaker 3: of what makes him frustrating and like masturbatory and all

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Speaker 3: of these things that irk us is that he's performing

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Speaker 3: so many stunts, and he's doing it with like extreme

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Speaker 3: pride in himself. Right, And I think the animal cruelty

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Speaker 3: as like a bit. It's very much like a little

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Speaker 3: kid who might grow up to be a sociopath setting

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Speaker 3: caterpillars on fire, but like make it.

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Speaker 2: She sid from toy Story Coded Behavior.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fortunately the animals are CGI And I do think

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Speaker 2: that the Freaky like at least like a narrative place

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Speaker 2: of why he's doing it in this movie, because yeah,

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Speaker 2: like when it's for no reason, it feels kind of

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Speaker 2: like self satisfied and edge Lordy, which I think edge Lordy, Yes,

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Speaker 2: a lot of his movies can feel anyways, like I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I almost like hesitate to say that because

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Speaker 2: I just know that that causes an avalanche of similar

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Speaker 2: people to be like no, but like it's just how

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Speaker 2: I feel. I don't know. Yeah, there's Caitlyn. I feel

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Speaker 2: like we've talked about this before, but it's now more

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Speaker 2: common for like male O two is to center women

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Speaker 2: in their work. I think this has been an increasing

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Speaker 2: trend of the last ten years. But there's like when

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Speaker 2: it's done in a certain way, it feels very like

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Speaker 2: you're saying me like very self satisfied and very like

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Speaker 2: well I get it, ladies, and it's like.

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Speaker 1: Self congratulatory, and it's just like let women make movies,

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Speaker 1: please and thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I am put a little idiots that Emma

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Speaker 2: Stone had a huge creative voice in this.

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Speaker 3: You're right, that makes a difference. You know, if I

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Speaker 3: could make a prediction, I'd say that if I were

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Speaker 3: to see this movie thrice the way that you each have,

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Speaker 3: and forgive me for my underachievement, but I think I

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Speaker 3: would probably like it less. Well, I would like it

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Speaker 3: less in some ways and more in some ways. I

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Speaker 3: think I would like it more because like again, I

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Speaker 3: just want to keep seeing that fashion and like force

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Speaker 3: feeding it to myself, like fucking fashion foie gras. But

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Speaker 3: I think I would like it less because I would

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Speaker 3: start to like actually scrutinize it. Whereas when I saw it,

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Speaker 3: the element of surprise was really a factor for me

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Speaker 3: because I hadn't read much about it. I was just

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Speaker 3: like ugh, based on vibes, I don't want to go,

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Speaker 3: and so there was so much novelty, there was so

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Speaker 3: much surprise. Again, I was tipsy, I was letting it

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Speaker 3: wash over me. I was giggling. I mean, there are

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Speaker 3: some like really funny frames as you were mentioning, you know,

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Speaker 3: I like laughed so hard at certain points, like there's

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Speaker 3: this one just like very quick cut of Bella going

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Speaker 3: from like partying to like pasted out drunk in a corner.

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Speaker 3: That's just like the timing of it was so funny

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Speaker 3: and like those sort of like silly self unseerious moments

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Speaker 3: just like cued my little laughing machine and I was

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Speaker 3: just like Tee all the way through. But I think

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Speaker 3: if that element of surprise and the novelty were not

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Speaker 3: there anymore, I would actually start to apply my slow

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Speaker 3: thinking to the film, and in those ways, I would

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Speaker 3: like it less.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're here to do. Yeah, wreck it for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm starting to say that like the

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Speaker 1: things I like about the movie, I think I'll like

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Speaker 1: stay liking. But the things I don't like about it,

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Speaker 1: the more and more I see it, the.

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Speaker 2: More and more I'm really that excited by them. M Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Learn more about the production of this movie made me

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Speaker 2: feel both better and more ambivalent. But the thing that

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Speaker 2: I was yelling at my boyfriend on the phone about

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Speaker 2: when I was taking the bus back at like one

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Speaker 2: in the morning, after saying, this damn movie, Oh god, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm committed to seeing this movie for some reason. But

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Speaker 2: my favorite, Your Girl's Anathemist movie is probably the most

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Speaker 2: accessible of his the favorite. I really loved the favorite

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Speaker 2: and it's like the movie of his centers women that

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Speaker 2: tracks for me. I think the reason that may be

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Speaker 2: is because it is We talked about this when we

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Speaker 2: covered The Favorite. It's based on a story written by

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Speaker 2: a woman, Deborah Davis, and she adapted it with Tony McNamara.

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Speaker 2: This movie is based on source material by a man

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Speaker 2: and adapted by just Tony McNamara, which I think was

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Speaker 2: a mistake.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, Like, when I think about the gaze

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Speaker 3: of those two movies, it really manifests so clearly in

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Speaker 3: the film itself, because I feel like The Favorite is

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Speaker 3: a movie about women from at least somewhat of a

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Speaker 3: female gaze, and this movie feels like a movie about

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Speaker 3: a woman from a male gaze, with the female gaze

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Speaker 3: like trying so fucking hard to bust out, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's weird. I'm excited to talk

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Speaker 2: about it, But first we should talk about what happens

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Speaker 2: in the movie.

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Speaker 1: After this break, yes, and we're back. I'll place a

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Speaker 1: content warning here at the top. Four.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Everything, there's suicide, there's sexual and domestic abuse that will

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Speaker 1: get brought up either in the recap and or the discussion.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff going on in this movie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we are in Victorian era London. We see a woman

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Speaker 1: from behind who jumps off a bridge, presumably to die

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Speaker 1: by suicide. Then we meet Bella Baxter played by Emma

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Speaker 1: Stone google Goga. But then I'm also like, okay, Bella, Bello.

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Speaker 2: Bello minions exact exactly. We're back way back.

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Speaker 1: So Bella Baxter is acting like a baby. She's speaking

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Speaker 1: in gibberish, she's walking around erradically. She doesn't have motor skills.

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Speaker 1: She spits out her food, she pisses herself, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Her caretaker slash father figure is doctor Godwin Baxter played

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Speaker 1: by Willem Dafoe, also called God. He is a surgeon

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Speaker 1: and professor at a medical school. He's like this kind

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Speaker 1: of doctor Frankenstein type of doctor where he seems to

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Speaker 1: have Frankenstein very animals together. There's like a dog's head

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Speaker 1: on a chicken body. There's a duck head on a

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Speaker 1: goat's body. Things like that. God asks one of his students,

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Speaker 1: Max mccandle's played by Ramy Yusuf, to assist him with

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Speaker 1: monitoring Bella's progress. God explains to Max that she had

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Speaker 1: suffered a brain injury and her mental age and physical

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Speaker 1: body are not synchronized, and that's why she's acting like

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Speaker 1: a baby. But she's progressing very rapidly, and Max is

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Speaker 1: enthusiastic about this project. He also thinks that Bella is

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Speaker 1: very pretty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think even before Max is like I'm interested

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Speaker 2: in this project, he's like, Wow, she's hot and like

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Speaker 2: this is gonna go well.

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Speaker 1: Like, and then we see her progressing where her speech

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Speaker 1: and motor skills improve, but she's still acting very childlike

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Speaker 1: for a while. Bella asks God who she is, where

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Speaker 1: her parents are. He's like, oh, you're an orphan, and

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Speaker 1: we just generally see her be inquisitive and curious about

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Speaker 1: the world. She asks Max to teach her about different

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Speaker 1: places on the world map. She's never been outside and

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Speaker 1: she wants to go out and explore, so God reluctantly

433
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: takes her to the woods, but she wants to be

434
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: where the people are, and she starts acting out. She

435
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: wants to go into town and stuff, and he's like, no,

436
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: that's not possible, so he chloroforms her and Max is like,

437
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on? And Doctor God reveals

438
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: the truth that Bella had died. She was the woman

439
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: we saw jumping off the bridge at the beginning, and

440
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: she was also very gregnant at the time. Yes, heavy

441
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: with Greg, very heavy with Greg. So God took the

442
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: brain from the baby and surgically put it into Bella's

443
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: head and then reanimated her, which is why she's been

444
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: acting so baby like.

445
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 2: Now I have a quick question, and it is disgusting.

446
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: Uh huh, but they go out of their way to

447
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: be like a living baby, as you're like, So he

448
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: did canonically, instead of raising the baby, kill the baby

449
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: to steal its brain, right, Yeah, I think so.

450
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, So I'm now remembering that I actually hated

451
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: like the first fifteen minutes of the movie, the whole

452
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: first black and white bit. I was just like, here

453
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: we fucking go. And I had a negative reaction to

454
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: it in part because of my own conditioning. I am

455
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 3: the daughter of research scientists, like laboratory scientists, and I

456
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: grew up with a certain amount of disdain in the

457
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: household for the trope of the evil unethical scientist, because

458
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: my parents felt like it soiled the already sort of

459
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 3: fragile reputation of scientists in this culture, Like it's not

460
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 3: cool to be a scientist. It's not cool to be

461
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: smarter than everyone else else because that's suspicious, you know.

462
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: So like this trope of a scientist using his powers

463
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 3: for evil, it's just like not something that we actually

464
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 3: see in real life. And so when I was noticing

465
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: that in the beginning of the film, I was just like,

466
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 3: this is corny, this is damaging, this is cheap, and

467
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: it's in black and white. I thought there were colors

468
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: in this movie.

469
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 2: Wow, that is really interesting. Like that's something I'm aware of,

470
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: that sort of stock character and like to I don't know,

471
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: encourage like incuriosity and.

472
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, like being smart as evil and like knowing things

473
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: that other people don't know, yeah, or don't want to know,

474
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: is evil. Like I actually do bump up against that

475
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 3: fair in large part because I was brought up to

476
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: but like, yeah, I didn't like that.

477
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: Well, I'll just point out that Bella Baxter is not

478
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: unlike Adam Frankenstein of I frankens Stein fame.

479
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: Our favorite bad movie. Yeah, it's true. Well, she can't

480
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 2: do nun Chuck's like Adam Frankenstein, which is actually my

481
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: biggest criticism of the movie. Exactly, there's no nun Chuck Sequins.

482
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: Where's the war of Demon's versus Gargoyles? I was sort

483
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: of waiting for that to start.

484
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: Shame.

485
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. Ultimately I would would I rather watch

486
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: Ey Frankenstein than Four Things? Probably not, but like I

487
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: don't know. When friends are over, I'm turning on I

488
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: Frankenstein every time, absolutely, and that's misogynist of me.

489
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: Have either of you seen the film Franken Hooker?

490
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: No, No, what's that?

491
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: That's a really good, bad movie. That movie came out

492
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: and I want to.

493
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: Say ninety one perfect.

494
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: And I think you both would like it. It's really it's

495
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: so bad. It's good for sure, but it's about this

496
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 3: aspiring mad scientist whose girlfriend is tragically killed in a

497
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: lawnmower accident. So he goes yes, and he blows up

498
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: a bunch of sex workers and uses their parts to

499
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 3: assemble a new girlfriend. Holy shit, Okay, it's really camp.

500
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 3: It's really wacky. It's a pleasure to watch, and it's

501
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: like a tight ninety.

502
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh love that.

503
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the just the poster. I'm like, yeah,

504
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: I would watch this. I would watch.

505
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, and the Franken Hunker in the film. It

506
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: has some things in common with Mella Maxter now that

507
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: I think about.

508
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: It, Okay, I'll watch it.

509
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bella Baxter is a part of a long legacy

510
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: of Frankenstein's.

511
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: Fucked up experiments.

512
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh this is so I'm excited to talk

513
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: about the science angle of it. I haven't seen that

514
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: written about it all. All right, sorry, I'm true. Continue.

515
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So we left off where God reveals to Max

516
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: what he actually did with Bella as far as like

517
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: surgically putting the baby brain into her adult body, and

518
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: Bella has no idea about any of that, and when

519
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: she wakes up after being chloroformed, she discovers masturbation and

520
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: she starts doing it all the time. But other characters

521
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: have to be like, no, in polite society, we do

522
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: not do that. And then God is like, hey, Max,

523
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: you should marry Bella, and He's like, yeah, great idea.

524
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: I love my baby girlfriend Gaga, and I'm the nice guy.

525
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: Somehow, and I'm actually nice.

526
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

527
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: So Max asks Bella to marry him, but God has

528
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: some conditions, mainly that Max and Bella live at God's

529
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: house and always like be under his supervision, which would

530
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,239
Speaker 1: essentially make Bella a prisoner, which she already is, and

531
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: then God hires a lawyer to write up a legal

532
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: agreement to this effect. The lawyer is Duncan Wedderburn played

533
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: by Mark Ruffalo, who immediately takes a liking to Bella

534
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: and he's very horny and he wants to free Bella

535
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: from this imprisonment, so he invites her to accompany him

536
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: to Lisbon, and she recognizes that Duncan is pretty sleazy,

537
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: but she wants to go and explore the world and

538
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: explore her blossoming sexuality. God is not happy about this,

539
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: nor is Max, but Bella goes on this trip nonetheless,

540
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: So she and Duncan arrive in Lisbon. He introduces her

541
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: to new food and sights and experiences, and they have

542
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: a lot of sexy.

543
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: She goes full hedonist in Lisbon, Yes, which is fun.

544
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot made of the emphasis

545
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: on sex that this movie has. But she is truly

546
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: like pleasure chasing in every conceivable way, Like she's pleasure

547
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: chasing with clothes, with her body, with food, with everything,

548
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: and then eventually with books.

549
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: And thank god we're in color by now.

550
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: Yes, we're finally in color. It's true, so you know

551
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: they're traveling together, but they're soon getting on each other's nerves.

552
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: Duncan is annoyed by Bella's behavior and that it doesn't

553
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: line up with polite society, and he's annoyed that he

554
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: can't seem to like control her. He's getting jealous. Meanwhile,

555
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: Bella just wants to be able to go off and

556
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: explore and have adventures, and he's like trying to prevent

557
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: her from doing that. At some point in the trip,

558
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: a woman comes up to Bella being like, Victoria Blessington,

559
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: I haven't seen you in years, and Bella is like,

560
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm Bella Baxter,

561
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: which is gonna pay off later. Then Duncan, who is

562
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: becoming more and more possessive, abducts Bella by putting her

563
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: in a trunk and bringing her on a boat.

564
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 2: The only thing you can say for that is he

565
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: does ultimately admit that he did it, which is more

566
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: than most men who kidnap women in movies.

567
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: You do, that is true?

568
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, how's that for a yard stick? Do we like

569
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: that yard stick? Oh?

570
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: The bar is so low. So she is understandably upset

571
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: by being abducted, but she makes the best of it,

572
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: I guess, and she makes a couple of friends on

573
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: the ship, Martha and Harry, which Duncan doesn't like, and

574
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: he's basically like Bella, you have to marry me or

575
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: I'll throw you overboard. And also Duncan doesn't like that

576
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: Bella is less interested in having sex with him, and

577
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: she has taken more of an interest in reading and

578
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: learning about different philosophies and expanding her mind. She's uncertain

579
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 1: how to view the world and the people in it.

580
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: She's talking to Harry about it and Martha, but Harry

581
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: is a cynic. He keeps saying that life and people

582
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: are cruel, and Bella doesn't want to believe it. But

583
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: when the ship docks in Alexandria, Harry shows her people

584
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: who who are living in poverty and who are suffering

585
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: and starving, and she's devastated and she feels compelled to

586
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: help them, so she takes all of Duncan's winnings from

587
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: him gambling at the casino and the ship, and she

588
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: tries to give them to the poor, but she unknowingly

589
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: gets swindled by a couple of sailors who take the money.

590
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: Whoops, the Cynic. Okay, the Cynic is my least favorite character,

591
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: and I love Girod Carmichael. Yeah, oh yeah, the Cynic

592
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: cracks me up because it feels like this is like

593
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: a pretty solid adaptation just from like translating from book

594
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: to movie. But the Cynic feels like such a booky

595
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: character that you're just like, oh my god, like, do

596
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: we have to call him the Cynic? Because it just

597
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: feels very no offense cal It feels very grad school

598
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: to have a character name the Sinnel.

599
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, no offense taken. But thank you for mentioning.

600
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: You basically mentioned my master's degree in screenwriting.

601
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: I know you don't like to bring it out, but

602
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: I like to bring out that you And maybe I'm

603
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: just resentful because it's kind of beyond me what's going

604
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: on with the senec Yeah.

605
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: Sorry, you don't have a master's so you wouldn't really

606
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: get it.

607
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 3: I also famously do not have a master's degree, despite

608
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: the number of blazers I wear.

609
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: No But anyway, so either way, Duncan is furious that

610
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: Bella took his money and now they have no money,

611
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: and they wind up in Paris, and Bella tries to

612
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: procure a hotel room for them, and she approaches a

613
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: woman outside a hotel which turns out to be a brothel,

614
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: and the woman, Madam Swiney, played by Catherine Hunter, offers

615
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: Bella work.

616
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: I didn't realize at first until my second viewing that

617
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 2: Catherine Hunter plays the witches in the new Cohen Brothers Macbeth.

618
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't see that one.

619
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: It's really good. Yes, it's Denzel Washington Macbeth, and she

620
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: plays all three witches. And I only recognize her voice

621
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: because she is like shape shifting, like no one's business

622
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 2: in that. But would recommend she's so good it's wild.

623
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, I like her character a lot in

624
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: this way.

625
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

626
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: Anyway, she offers Bella work, and so Bella has sex

627
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: with a man for money, and this makes Duncan furious

628
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: and he leaves to go back to London. Bella continues

629
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 1: doing sex work. She's repulsed by most of her clients,

630
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: but she also tries to make the best of that situation.

631
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: She befriends another woman at the brothel, Twinette. They eventually

632
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: develop a sexual slash romantic relationship.

633
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 2: I think it's important representation that she starts having sex

634
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: with the person who introduced her to socialism. I felt

635
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: seen by that.

636
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: I like that a lot you could resist. Also, Twinette

637
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: is played by Susie Bemba. One day, Bella here yelling

638
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: outside the brothel and it's Duncan, who never left, and

639
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: he's there to quote unquote save her.

640
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: He's literally a street car name desiring, which I foolishly

641
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: did not pick up until my third viewing, which is

642
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 2: brave of me to admit. But he's at the bottom

643
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: going balla.

644
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: Right because instead of saying Stella, he's saying Bella.

645
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: Wow. So for everyone else listening with three brain cells,

646
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: that was a reference.

647
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was the movie. Poor I missed that one.

648
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was yeah. I'm happy to blame it on

649
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: my previous movie, Porus. But in the third one, I

650
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, okay, you're got seen another movie.

651
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: Chris has watched a movie other than his own. Whoaee.

652
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: So Duncan like wants to save her from this life

653
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: that she's living, and she's like, go home, you lose her.

654
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: We also are periodically cutting back to God and Max

655
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: in London and they are back on their bullshit because

656
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: they have made a new baby lady and named her Felicity,

657
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: played by Margaret Qualleyno.

658
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 3: They're raven haired hotty.

659
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, it's true. It's true. All the greats they

660
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: got the gen Z raven haired Hotti.

661
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: Is she properly gen Z?

662
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like she's gen Z marketed.

663
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 3: She's cuspy.

664
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

665
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: I just found out that she's Andy McDonald's daughter because

666
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: I went to go see you drive Away Dolls, and

667
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh.

668
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 3: The fact that they masked that well enough for you

669
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 3: to miss it reflects well on the like anti NEPO

670
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: baby sort of like pr campaign.

671
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: It is interesting that it's like NEPO baby Praxis that

672
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: appears to take the last name of the less famous parent.

673
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's why I'm like, there are NEPO babies

674
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 2: where you're like, you know what, good for Jack Quaid,

675
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: although Dennis Quaid is somehow his less famous parent.

676
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 3: Wait, who's his mom?

677
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: Meg Ryan? Oh shit, but then his name would be

678
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: Jack Ryan and that would suck.

679
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, not to get too far away from

680
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 3: the topic at hand, but I actually was in class

681
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: my freshman year of college with Jack Quaid in an

682
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 3: essay writing class.

683
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: I'm not God.

684
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we were paired once. Wow, I didn't know

685
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 3: who the fuck he was. I had no idea. It's

686
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: probably because his last name wasn't Ryan.

687
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: Now that I'm thinking about it, Jack Ryan would actually

688
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: like fly You under the Radar a little better. But

689
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: either way, Yeah, if you're a Nepa, you gotta have

690
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: the obvious last name.

691
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: You have to.

692
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

693
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: Anyway, So God and Max make Felicity, presumably because they

694
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: were trying to fill some void when Bella left. Also,

695
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 1: we learn that God is dying and Bella receives a

696
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 1: letter about this, so she returns to London, and Bella

697
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: has noticed a C section scar, and so she asks

698
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: God about it, and he finally tells her that technically

699
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 1: she is her baby. She is both her own mother

700
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: and her own daughter. And she's like, what the fuck?

701
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: I hate that? That's like her the.

702
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: Talk I know, right, that's the birds and the bees Formellobaxer.

703
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: She figures out the birds and the bees on her

704
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: own like many of us, right.

705
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: I also like that, like I am my own baby.

706
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: Completely sounds like the name of a TLC special.

707
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: I would watch totally or just like a true life episode,

708
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 2: Like there's so many delicious, exploitative meeting.

709
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: I definitely watched a TLC special called I Am My

710
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: Own Twin, which brings me to another point that I

711
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 3: wanted to make, which is like, despite disdaining the evil

712
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 3: scientist trope, I love any scene that takes place in

713
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: an operating theater.

714
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes, I remember. I first learned of the

715
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 2: operating theater from a series of unfortunate events nice and

716
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: I was like, now they were onto something there. It's fun.

717
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 2: It's a perfect set piece.

718
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 3: So spooky and cinema.

719
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: I like that Bella thrives in the operating theater. How scary.

720
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, because it's right around this point

721
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: of the movie where she says that she plans to

722
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: become a doctor, following in her daddy God's footsteps. Anyway,

723
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: so she confronts God ann Max about lying to her

724
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: and trapping her, and to God for creating her in

725
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: the first place, and they're all like whoopsies. But then

726
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: Bello goes forward with marrying Max, and during the wedding,

727
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: a man comes in and interrupts to be like Bello Victoria.

728
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: This man is her husband in her former life. His

729
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: name is General Alfred Blessington, and Duncan had helped the

730
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: General find Bella because Duncan is very bitter and he

731
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: thinks that Bella is a succubist from Hell and stuff

732
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: like that.

733
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 2: Now, if you think you've met Patriarchy, the guy in

734
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 2: this movie, you haven't, You haven't yet.

735
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: He shows up at the very end, but Bella is

736
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: intrigued by the General and wants to go with him,

737
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: so she returns to his estate, only to discover that

738
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: the General is horribly abusive and cruel, and apparently so

739
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 1: was she in her former life, and he wants to

740
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: hold her prisoner, and he threatens to shoot her if

741
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: she tries to leave, and he intends to have a

742
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 1: doctor remove her glitteris that night, so she fights back.

743
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: She manages to chloroform the General and shoot him in

744
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: the foot, and then Bella has Max perform surgery on

745
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: the General and it is revealed that the brain of

746
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: a goat was put into the General's head, and so

747
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: that's like the big cathartic end of this movie. Also,

748
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: God dies Antoinette comes to live with Bella and Max.

749
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: It's a very clean and good for her ending to

750
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: the movie that deviates significantly from the book.

751
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: Right, So that's the story, and let's take a quick

752
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: break and we'll come back to discuss. And we are back,

753
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: and where shall we start on this movie that will

754
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: break my brain? And there's so much to talk about.

755
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: Just a fun fact really quick. So Tony McNamara, he

756
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: also collaborated with mister Yorgos on The Favorite, but his

757
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: credit before this was a different Emma Stone vehicle. He

758
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: also wrote the screenplay to Cruella, so he also kind

759
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 2: of is now a specialist and good for her style.

760
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: Emma Stone movies of varying quality. So that's just a

761
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: fact about Tony. I don't know. Should we start with

762
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: talking about the source material a little bit?

763
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, please educate me because I did not deep

764
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 3: dive into the source material and I'm so curious to know.

765
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: That's what we're here, fool. So yeah, this is based

766
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 2: on a nineteen ninety two novel by Alistair Gray.

767
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: Okay, ninety two birth year.

768
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 2: Yes, you're the monkey, solidareity?

769
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: Okay, young people.

770
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: Yes the youth.

771
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: I am my own baby Google.

772
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: Ultimately, we are all babies at the end of the day.

773
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: We're all baby. Honestly, I bravely had no idea who

774
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: Alistair Gray was. Turns out he's very famous. He is

775
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: a Scottish or was a Scottish writer. Who is I

776
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: don't know, a postmodern writer. That could mean anything. He

777
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: wrote weird speculative novels. He also did a lot of painting.

778
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: He was also a visual artist, very well loved, and

779
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 2: also in a way that the movie sort of skilled

780
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: back a little bit. Was also famously a socialist and

781
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 2: put socialist themes and ideas in basically all of his work.

782
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: So that's sort of the overarching what you need to

783
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: know about him. He passed away in twenty nineteen, but

784
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: met Yurgoslanthemo's and like had his blessing to make this movie.

785
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 2: I don't think he ended up seeing the script before

786
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: he passed, but I do always kind of like that

787
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: when it's possible to happen, when there is like a

788
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: nice two writers usually men hanging out love that, so

789
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: you know yourgo's got the blessing and when ahead to

790
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 2: make the movie. The main difference is in Kitlyn. Please

791
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: let me know if I missed anything. Ooh, okay, yeah,

792
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: I have the book on my Libby app. Wow, for

793
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: all you libby heads out there, I have it, but

794
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: I have not read it yet.

795
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 1: Well, that's because we don't read books on this podcast famously.

796
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: I know, but then I'm trying. I'm trying.

797
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: You're trying to read books, Jamie, what the heck?

798
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: And even though people seem to like, the general consensus

799
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 2: is this movie is good, but also general consensus is

800
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: the book is better. Differences between the book and the

801
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: movie include that all of the book takes place in

802
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: Scotland and Glasgow specifically, this has changed to London. I

803
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: don't really know why. The book is far more overtly socialist,

804
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: which I kind of alluded to. I'm pulling from a

805
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: piece from Polygon that sort of breaks this down. That

806
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 2: Bella which we see it in the movie. We see

807
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: Bella's political awakening when she goes to Alexandria and basically

808
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 2: just witnesses capitalism. I don't like the visual choices made here.

809
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: I think it really leans into some like savage tropes

810
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: that like really don't sit well with me. Agreed. In

811
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: the book, Bella talks to people and that scene is

812
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: far longer. Is it better? I don't know I haven't

813
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 2: read it, but you know, what is basically reduced to

814
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: a shot for the movie is a whole sequence in

815
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: the book, and so it is clearer. Even though I

816
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: think it is clear in the movie that like Bella's

817
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: political awakening becomes increasingly important as the movie goes on,

818
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: it's far more explicit and specific in the book, and

819
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: that sequence in Alexandria is far longer. Lanthamus gave an

820
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: interview to Polygon and was asked about this and said

821
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: the following quote, I didn't find that it could be

822
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: as much a part of the film we were making,

823
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 2: which is following her story, that story about a woman,

824
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: which is a much more universal thing than political awakening.

825
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: I disagree, but anyways, he says, the book is also

826
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: a huge essay about a lot of political things, and

827
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 2: especially about Scotland and its relationship with the rest of

828
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: the world, and so yes, that aspect couldn't be an

829
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: equal part in the film, which does make more sense

830
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: to me. I don't know. I feel like every Russian

831
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 2: novel includes three hundred pages about like agrarian law of

832
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: that decade, and you're like, yeah, I don't want to

833
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: see that. In any case, the final large change is

834
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 2: the ending, which instead of the kind of the ending

835
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: to this movie is so weird to me where it's like,

836
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: I'm not upset that she, you know, fox over her

837
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: former husband great, but this whole very complex, weird movie

838
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: coming down to like a wine glass clink like dun Dunn.

839
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 2: Like I didn't really love it. Yeah, it just felt

840
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: like very neat and it's because it's not the end.

841
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, it was very much like a nineties rom

842
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 3: com based on a Shakespearean play kind of ending.

843
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: It felt like fried green Tomatoes, Like it just felt

844
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: like from a different movie. I don't know. I'm just

845
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: gonna read directly from this polygon piece here and I

846
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: want to shut out. It is written by Oly Welsh.

847
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: We'll link to it in the description of the episode

848
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: through its extended code and framing devices. The book presents

849
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: a much more ambivalent account of the rest of Bella's life.

850
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 2: She and Archibald I guess he's not Max mccandle's put

851
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: their medical skills to better use in the book, serving

852
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 2: the people of Glasgow with a women's clinic and a

853
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: public health initiative, but mccandal's is ineffectual and Bella's socialist

854
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: ideals are eventually thwarted by political reality. She's last seen

855
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: as an eccentric old woman whose only patients are dogs.

856
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: It's a much sadder but arguably a less bitter one.

857
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, very very different ending, which I kind of think.

858
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,959
Speaker 2: I prefer the book to the kind of prescriptive movie ending.

859
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: So that's adaptation stuff.

860
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: Yes, I have a couple additional things. I also saw

861
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: the polygon piece. These are a few examples of differences

862
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: between the book and the movie from a people dot

863
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: Com piece.

864
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, watch out.

865
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 2: That's the grad school bump.

866
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 3: Okay, masters great, exactly know.

867
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: I only find the best sources, so this one is

868
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: called poor things. The biggest differences between the book and

869
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: the Emma Stone movie iconic Wow, Okay, such things as

870
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: the wedding plays out a little differently. The novel includes

871
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: a variety of characters who don't make it into the movies,

872
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: such as an American professor named doctor Hooker. I don't

873
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: know exactly where Bella meets him on her travels, but

874
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: there's this American professor guy. We also meet her father,

875
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: or rather like Victoria Blessington's father. I think he shows

876
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: up in the wedding scene, stuff like that. The movie

877
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: eliminates those characters, but it adds the character of Felicity,

878
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: the woman who god in Max like Frankenstein together while

879
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: Bella is traveling. So there are those examples, and then

880
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: the novel is structured in such a way where it's

881
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: like letters the memoir from the Max character, right from

882
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: the Max character. Yeah, and he's like talking about his

883
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: friendship with the scientist Godwin Baxter and his creation Bella.

884
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: So it's like more from his point of view, whereas

885
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: the movie largely focuses on Bella and her point of

886
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: view and her view of the world and things like.

887
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: That works for me, right. I also feel like historically,

888
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 2: like unreliable narrator novels are not usually well adapted. I'm like, yeah,

889
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: just give us a streamlined version.

890
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, indeed.

891
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's the book versus the movie. So let's

892
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: get into the movie, Amanda. Is there anything that stands

893
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: out to you that you want to get into right away?

894
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I mean, like, something that I thought was

895
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 3: very unique about this movie, and that was just like

896
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 3: candy for me personally, was the evolution of Bella's language skills.

897
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 3: And her idiolect, as it's called, her very unique and

898
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 3: personal way of speaking. I don't think I'd ever seen

899
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: like a real time representation of someone's like totally wacky

900
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 3: mastery of the English language, from googo gaga to you know,

901
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 3: like multi polysyllabic words. But I was like thoroughly entertained

902
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 3: by the way that she spoke. And I think, Caitlin

903
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 3: you mentioned that being a highlight for you as well,

904
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: because I could just really relate as an extremely like

905
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 3: verbose lover of ten dollars words for no actual reason.

906
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 3: I loved how quickly she went from actual goo goo

907
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 3: gaga bella hungry too. I mean, I don't have like

908
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 3: one of her lines memorized and at the ready, but.

909
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: But she's like quoting like political theory.

910
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: It has a master's degree basically, she does. Yeah, she

911
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: has a PhD.

912
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 3: Even, But the way that she talks is like so

913
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 3: authentic to her, like it's so bananas. No one talks

914
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 3: like that. No one that she meets talks like that,

915
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: you know, like nobody in her world talks like that.

916
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 3: And I thought that and her style were like true

917
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 3: individuality to me, and I really I felt very seen

918
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 3: by it because like, I feel like I talk funny.

919
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 3: My word choices are funny. That's pointed out to me

920
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: from time to time. So I felt like the representation

921
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 3: for like girlies who talk funny, it was like really appreciated.

922
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: Even though I said earlier that I was like frustrated

923
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 2: by the comparisons between Four Things and Barbie, I did

924
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 2: enjoy it. Someone like was like poor Things is sort

925
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: of like if weird. Barbie had her whole movie that

926
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: happened in the Victorian era, and I was like, yeah,

927
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 2: I kind of see it. I mean, Emma Stone won

928
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: the Best Actress Oscar yesterday at the time we were

929
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 2: recording this, and it is like an incredible performance, Like

930
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 2: she's she like really goes for it. Her performance is

931
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 2: so good, and I like that they give her the

932
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 2: space to kind of cook.

933
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: And I mean, not to be bitchy, but Lily Gladstone

934
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: should have won.

935
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: But I mean sure, I mean no, I mean I

936
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: think everyone agrees that, remember.

937
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: But I know what you're saying, like she gives an

938
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: excellent performance.

939
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: I think they're both incredible performances and very different performances.

940
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: And for sure, the oscars are racist and it's not

941
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: a meritocracy. Yeah yeah, yeah, but it's a great performance

942
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 2: for Mamma Stone. I like that. I mean, I'm glad

943
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 2: to hear that you like as someone with a background

944
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: in linguistics, like that you you like it.

945
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: I loved it.

946
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 2: It's cool and it does still feel like particular to

947
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: that character. One of the things that I liked about

948
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 2: the movie because I do feel like the criticisms around

949
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 2: the emphasis and some people have like said over emphasis

950
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 2: on sex with men as a way of understanding yourself,

951
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 2: Like I understand why those are. I feel like that

952
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 2: has a lot more to do with the visual choices

953
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 2: in the movie than the story itself because for me,

954
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: at a story level, like she is growing constantly at

955
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 2: a rate that makes sense, and so much of the

956
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: story or like where we end up is influenced by

957
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: like like you do when you're coming of age, where

958
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: you're like trying to understand your body. You're trying to understand,

959
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: like what are the rules? I think, like the big

960
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: thing we come up against is that the thing that

961
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: is gross and unavoidable in this story is that she

962
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 2: has a baby brain and a grown woman's body, which

963
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: comes up against a version of a trope we've discussed

964
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: a million times, like the Born Sexy Yesterday, which is

965
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: been around forever. But I do think that Bella is

966
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: an interesting variant of this trope because I feel like

967
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: a lot of the baby lady tropes that we get

968
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 2: are still somehow intuiting, the make yourself smaller rules and

969
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 2: defer to men rules that exist within society that takes

970
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: years of conditioning to sort of soak in for a

971
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 2: lot of people. But Bella is fully a blank canvas

972
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: and like if a social norm doesn't make sense to

973
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: where she says it and does not abide by it,

974
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 2: and I feel like that is far rarer and it

975
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 2: almost like like challenged how I understood that stock character

976
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: because you're like, it's not a baby lady really, because

977
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 2: babies say what's on their mind, and those characters very

978
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: rarely say what's on their mind, or if they do,

979
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: it is like in a very particular way that is

980
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: still deferential to the man that is teaching them what

981
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 2: the world is. So I do feel like she is

982
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: different in that way.

983
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 1: Yes, your cat has arrived into the chat.

984
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 2: Casper's in the mix. He's got thoughts.

985
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 3: Oh my god, he's so huge.

986
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: Talk about a little baby with big ideas. Oh he

987
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 2: just fell. Oh he's good, he's good. Yeah.

988
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 1: I agree that the because the first time I saw

989
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: this movie and you see her with her baby brain

990
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: and her adult body and she's having sex with adult

991
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: men with adult brains, and I was so grossed out

992
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: by it.

993
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 2: It's gross.

994
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: And then I started to realize that, Okay, it seems

995
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: like the director is making some intentional commentary that seems

996
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: to suggest that, like, men are so preoccupied with their

997
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: own sexual desire that they don't eat noticed that the

998
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: woman they're physically attracted to has the mind of a

999
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: small child, or if they do notice, they don't seem

1000
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: to care. And so I was like, Okay, that seems

1001
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: to be what your gross is getting out.

1002
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 2: Including the guys that were like theoretically rooting for like

1003
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 2: that's yeah. I think like Max is a tricky character

1004
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 2: for me in that regard, because I feel like the movie,

1005
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: in the way that it ends ends up being like

1006
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: Max is a pretty good guy. Yeah, sure, he made

1007
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 2: some choices that weren't the best, and he justifies it

1008
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 2: usually by being like, you know how charismatic Willem Dafoe is.

1009
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, that doesn't mean that you should have sex

1010
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: with a baby, marry a baby. You can't just be like, well,

1011
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: you know, he's just like when you're in his orbit,

1012
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 2: it's hard to not marry a baby. And you're like,

1013
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: I just don't believe that's true. I am always sort

1014
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 2: of responsive to like even the quote unquote good guy

1015
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 2: that you're told is the good guy is still you know,

1016
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: adhering to this fucked up logic.

1017
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he is very much to make a

1018
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 3: Sex in the City reference the Burger, the Jack Berger

1019
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 3: in the equation, you know, like maybe the evil general

1020
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: that's maybe you know, that's mister big a little bit,

1021
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 3: and who is Mark Ruffalo and the Sex in the

1022
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 3: City universe, you know, maybe God. Fortunately I don't think

1023
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 3: she fucks anyone like that, but good for her, I think.

1024
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 3: But yes, obviously there is something sinister that I don't

1025
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 3: know if the movie itself recognizes about treating that character

1026
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 3: as a good guy in the end. However, my experience

1027
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 3: of the movie, and I was fully done with my

1028
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 3: movie poor by this time, so my opinion can't entirely

1029
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 3: be trusted. I was like, so team Bella Baxter by

1030
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: the end of the movie that I was just like,

1031
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 3: whatever she wants, you know, like, yeah, she was so

1032
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 3: smart and badass by that point. I was just like,

1033
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 3: they'll probably get to worse later. It's clear that this

1034
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 3: movie is just like trying to wrap itself up because

1035
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 3: it's twenty minutes too long like most movies. Yeah, and

1036
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 3: so like, I'm just gonna kind of gently ignore this

1037
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 3: ending slash take it with a grain of salt because

1038
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 3: I'm still looking at Emma Stone's outfits and I love

1039
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 3: her character period.

1040
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the ending just like felt weird. Yeah,

1041
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 2: Like by the ending, I wasn't like I wish themooviie

1042
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: was still happening, but it like just feels funky because

1043
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: I also am like fully team Bella Baxter, and I

1044
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: don't know, I guess just like sort of close the

1045
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: loop on the extensive criticism of this movie's sex scenes.

1046
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 2: I don't think that it takes up undue narrative space.

1047
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 2: I think that visually it feels like it's obsessed over

1048
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 2: more so than any other developmental stage she has. I

1049
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 2: think that that's like, yeah, where that controversy comes from.

1050
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 2: No matter where you land on it, you can't argue

1051
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: that the movie is more visually interested in her mental

1052
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: awakening than her physical one. It gives a lot of

1053
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: real estate to her physical awakening.

1054
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 3: But doesn't that just make for like a more fun, sexy,

1055
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 3: interesting movie.

1056
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm not even saying that I don't like that,

1057
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 2: but I think that that's like why, because as I

1058
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 2: was like watching it, I was like, I do think

1059
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 2: that it is like fairly well paced and like where

1060
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 2: her priorities are and where her developmental stage is. But

1061
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 2: like visually, the like really intense visual scenes are when

1062
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: she's having sex and not when she's reading a book,

1063
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: because that's technically more interesting to watch. So that's sort

1064
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 2: of my theory on that. But I also think that

1065
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: like that is a perfectly fair criticism to have of

1066
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 2: this movie because it is objectively like icky that she's

1067
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: a baby fucking adult.

1068
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. But when I think of

1069
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 3: like the best sex scenes in the movie, what does

1070
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 3: she call it? Vigorous jumping? Furious furious jumping? I mean

1071
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 3: that's a great example of like I love the little

1072
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 3: constructed phrases that she comes up with. They're so funny

1073
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 3: and like visceral. But I don't know, like the sex

1074
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 3: scenes that I remember the most are I guess ones

1075
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 3: where she's maybe in the like slightly post adolescent phase.

1076
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 3: She's not literally a baby anymore, so she's like furious jumping.

1077
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: Right.

1078
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 3: It's not great, but I don't know. We're all just

1079
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 3: like going on intuition when we're trying to figure out

1080
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 3: how creepy any one of these given sex scenes are,

1081
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, at a certain point pretty soon into

1082
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 3: the movie, actually, once thank god, we transitioned into the colors,

1083
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 3: I was like, I am not so creeped out on

1084
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 3: this anymore. Like I think I really believe that, like

1085
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 3: this woman is horny.

1086
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 2: Well, I think that that's what helps is like she

1087
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 2: does initiate most of the sex in the movie.

1088
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: So I have two problems with the way like the

1089
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: exploration of female sexuality is handled. And I think it

1090
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with the fact that this

1091
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: movie is again adapted from a book by a man screenwriter,

1092
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: man director man. Because the things that it mishandles, and

1093
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure I could come up with more if I

1094
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: watched the movie again or mauled on it longer. But

1095
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: two things that really bugged me was that the movie

1096
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: equates sexual curiosity and sexual feelings with being emotionally ready

1097
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: to have sex with other people, because like children can

1098
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: feel sexual feelings, they can masturbate, they do masturbate, but

1099
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that they are emotionally mature enough to

1100
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: start having sex. But this story suggests that Bella when

1101
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: she still has a baby brain, because when she leaves

1102
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: to go on that trip with Duncan in the early

1103
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: days that trip, like she still is a child cognitively

1104
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: and emotionally, but she's like, I'm having sex, I'm ready

1105
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: to have sex. And it's like that doesn't track with

1106
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 1: how children actually cognitively and emotionally developed. So I just

1107
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: it's one thing if she just like masturbates a lot

1108
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: and she's exploring her sexuality with herself, but I was

1109
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: just like, why are you equating that with her being

1110
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: ready to have sex with other people and like adult men.

1111
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: So that's one thing that really bugged me. And then

1112
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: the other thing was that the more mature and like

1113
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: intellectually enlightened Bella becomes, the less horny she becomes, which

1114
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: kind of suggests like, oh, well, smart and educated women

1115
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: will not be horny, They'll cease to be horny. Because

1116
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: this is also reinforced by the Martha character, who's like,

1117
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 1: I haven't had sex in twenty years, and I never

1118
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: masturbate hardly. And she's like, I'm more concerned with what's

1119
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, between my ears her brain than what's between

1120
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: my legs her sex organs.

1121
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: So but could that be like a menopausal thing?

1122
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean maybe sure, But also I'm just like smart

1123
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: women can be so horny.

1124
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 2: I was sort of thrown by that shift. It felt

1125
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 2: like weirdly conservative. Yeah right, yeah, and what the movie

1126
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 2: is say otherwise, And that is before she starts working

1127
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 2: as a sex worker, which I think that that is

1128
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,919
Speaker 2: like this movie's attitude towards sex work is better than

1129
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 2: most movies attitudes towards sex work is the only thing

1130
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 2: I wish And I don't know if this is more

1131
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 2: fleshed out in the book, but like I do wish

1132
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: that we got to know the women who work there better.

1133
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: It felt like they were very like there at the

1134
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: last second, and they are it seems like very important

1135
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 2: in Bella's developmental growth. That is like where I start

1136
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 2: to understand the criticism, even though I don't totally agree

1137
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: with it. That like there's quote unquote too much said

1138
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 2: in this movie is like you see a lot of

1139
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 2: the sex. You hear that she's going to these meetings,

1140
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 2: you hear that she is like doing a B and C.

1141
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: You hear that she's connecting with the women who work

1142
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 2: at the brothel, But you don't really see a lot

1143
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 2: of it. You just know that it's happening. But when

1144
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 2: it comes to having sex with men, you see, yeah,

1145
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 2: and you hear about it. So it does feel like

1146
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: it ends up being like more emphasized by the movie,

1147
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 2: even if it's not more important in this story. I

1148
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 2: don't know, it's like it is tricky, but I love

1149
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 2: that that happens, and I love that, like, I don't know.

1150
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 2: I mean, you think about how sex workers are stereotyped

1151
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 2: in movies in any number of ways that we've talked

1152
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: about on this show over the years, and for the

1153
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 2: most part, that is pretty swiftly avoided in this movie,

1154
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 2: where the only shame put onto sex workers in this

1155
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 2: movie are by characters we don't like. I mean, Bella

1156
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 2: is very frank in her life, even when she's like

1157
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 2: not loving her job. She's like, I am my own

1158
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 2: means of production. Like she's like very clear about like

1159
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 2: why she does what she does. She likes it, even

1160
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 2: on the days she doesn't. She's not unhappy to be

1161
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: doing it. It's not made out to be coercive. It's

1162
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 2: like it's a job. It's presented as a job, which

1163
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 2: I feel like sex work almost never is in movies.

1164
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: It's always like bogged down by shame. And I love

1165
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 2: that about Bella. I love how she like at any

1166
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: turn when someone tries to entrap her or like projects

1167
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: shame onto her, She's like, that doesn't make sense to me,

1168
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 2: so I reject it.

1169
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right that we hear from her lover, her

1170
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 3: female lover. I forget the character's name, Twinette. Yeah, Twinette

1171
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 3: significantly less than any of the male lovers, which it's

1172
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 3: true I didn't love, but in the grand scheme of things,

1173
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 3: like what a treat for her to like have that

1174
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 3: character in her life at all? Yeah, I'm back on

1175
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 3: like some of the exchanges we've just had about like

1176
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 3: her mental age and how that may or may not

1177
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 3: be treated appropriately by these men in her life, and

1178
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 3: in this moment blaming your ghosts once again for this

1179
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 3: like edge lord fuckery, because like Frankensteining a character that

1180
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 3: is like provoking us to have this conversation about like

1181
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 3: when a woman is old enough to be able to

1182
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 3: like give sexual consent by like putting a baby brain

1183
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 3: in the body of an adult person. It's just like

1184
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 3: it's such fuckery, you know what I mean. It's like,

1185
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 3: what a stupid conversation whose like resolution will not be

1186
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 3: applicable to literally anything else ever, you know, right, It's

1187
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 3: like we will spend like the next however long figuring

1188
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 3: out how we really feel about this, and then we

1189
01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 3: won't be able to use that consensus on anything at

1190
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 3: all because women, grown women don't have baby brains famously,

1191
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 3: and babies don't have grown women bodies, like.

1192
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: Except in the movies where they do. There, it is weird.

1193
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I can see a lot of

1194
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 2: different I don't know. This movie does feel unique in

1195
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: like it seems like a lot of people's takeaway. It

1196
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: is like very entrenched in personal experience. There's certain things

1197
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 2: where like Kily and I agree with you, like that

1198
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,759
Speaker 2: implying that thinking about sex and discovering your body means

1199
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 2: that you are ready and able to consent to sex

1200
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 2: is like a really really slippery slope that this movie

1201
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 2: I think takes several steps back from. It doesn't even

1202
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 2: really want you to think about because I don't think

1203
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 2: it's like prepared to engage with that question, right. But

1204
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 2: also it's like, I don't know, the sex scenes that

1205
01:08:55,120 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: are there are centered on her. You do see men,

1206
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 2: but they're not focused on But I still like, maybe

1207
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 2: I'm a fucking prude. And I know, like your Guslanthemus

1208
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 2: is like contemporary audiences are prude, and I was like,

1209
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 2: maybe you're just European. I don't know, like maybe I

1210
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 2: am like an American prude.

1211
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 3: I have question as old as time.

1212
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 2: Truly, like maybe I'm an American prud like I didn't

1213
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 2: need all of it, but like I wasn't outside of this.

1214
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's so tricky because it's like in

1215
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 2: the criticism, you're describing Caitlin like it is gross in

1216
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: terms of like do I have an issue a see

1217
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 2: a naked actor if they are fully consenting and fine

1218
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 2: with it, And Emma Stone was because she is an

1219
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 2: executive producer in the movie, then yeah, I don't really care.

1220
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 2: I just wish that there was if I could have

1221
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 2: the exact perfect movie that I wanted. I wouldn't have

1222
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 2: minded sacrificing some of those sequences in favor of, like,

1223
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 2: even if it's like sex in the context of her

1224
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 2: intellectual awakening, because I like how like I mean we

1225
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 2: were joking about earlier, but like fucking the first person

1226
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 2: you meet who has good politics, Like that's cool. Like

1227
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 2: I would have liked to see more of that relationship

1228
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 2: in her life, because it seemed like for Bellet it

1229
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 2: was really important, but for the movie it wasn't really important, right.

1230
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: I think the movie handles some things well in its

1231
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: examination of things such as male fragility and how men

1232
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 1: perceive and treat women, and other things it doesn't handle

1233
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: so well, such as its exploration of female sexuality, for example.

1234
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1235
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 1: So it's almost like maybe a woman should have co written, yeah,

1236
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:47,640
Speaker 1: or directed the movie.

1237
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 2: I really think that that would have helped a lot

1238
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 2: of the problems.

1239
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 3: I agree. I think we wouldn't feel such cognitive dissonance

1240
01:10:56,439 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 3: about like enjoying aspects of the movie and cringing aspects

1241
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 3: of the movie if simply the female gays were prioritized

1242
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 3: on the back end when it obviously wasn't, you.

1243
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 2: Know, right, yeah, because it's like I think, like that

1244
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 2: the male fragility plot stuff is handled really well, probably

1245
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:20,440
Speaker 2: because it's written and adapted by people who have that experience.

1246
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 2: Like that, clearly that makes sense. Like I think it

1247
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: works really well, and like Mark Ruffalo is like really

1248
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 2: good in that role of like the more Bella rejects,

1249
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 2: you know, falling into these like various traps he's presenting,

1250
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,759
Speaker 2: whether it be being kidnapped, her on a boat, getting

1251
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 2: married like whatever Victorian trap he's trying to get her in.

1252
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 2: The more she outsmarts him, the more he becomes a baby.

1253
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 2: I like that like sort of parallel when she's maturing,

1254
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 2: he's devolving, and like that all works. I think one

1255
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 2: thing that we haven't done too yet that I want

1256
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 2: to talk about because I don't know how to feel

1257
01:11:58,080 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 2: about it. I wasn't thinking about it as much on

1258
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 2: my first viewing, but the way that she relates to

1259
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 2: God is really interesting to be and I want to

1260
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts that Amanda is talking about the sort

1261
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 2: of scientist trope where I wasn't honing in on this,

1262
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 2: I think because I was annoyed with other stuff on

1263
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 2: my first viewing. But how there is this cycle of

1264
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 2: abuse taking place in this freaky mansion that they live in,

1265
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: where we see that God is disabled as a result

1266
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 2: of abuse he experienced being experimented on by his own father,

1267
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 2: and he is then perpetuating similar abuses onto people and

1268
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 2: animals instead of processing his own pain and anchor and resentment.

1269
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 2: Which is really interesting, But like, I feel like the

1270
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 2: movie kind of bails on dealing with it like it's

1271
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 2: not nothing, because Bella does return to say I am

1272
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 2: upset with you for deceiving me about the circumstances that

1273
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 2: I was born. It's so weird. I feel like everyone

1274
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 2: has a more normal version of this conversation with their parents,

1275
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 2: where you're like, well, I didn't ask to be born,

1276
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: but being alive is pretty sick. But I truly didn't

1277
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 2: ask to be born, you know, like that whole thing.

1278
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,640
Speaker 2: But she does, like, you know, pretty clearly, say like

1279
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 2: I'm angry with you, but like hating your parents for

1280
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 2: certain things that are totally fair, but wanting a relationship

1281
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 2: with them anyways is a very common experience. I thought

1282
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 2: it was like well handled, but I still get I

1283
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 2: like can't shake on every viewing that, Like Williem Dafoe's

1284
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: character ends up like getting off too easy like he does.

1285
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I gotta say I found that stuff harder

1286
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 3: to take than the sort of quessifying sexual dynamics that

1287
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 3: we're discussing, because yeah, it's the thing that I've said

1288
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 3: where like I don't appreciate this god complex mad scientist trope.

1289
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 3: I like I literally think it's like not good for

1290
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 3: the culture. But uh yeah, like I just don't buy it.

1291
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 3: I like, don't buy perpetuating that kind of mad scientist

1292
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 3: abuse because you experienced it, like I don't. I don't

1293
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 3: buy it as an excuse and I certainly don't buy

1294
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 3: it as an explanation. So yeah, I think we were

1295
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 3: supposed to. We were supposed to say, like, oh, all

1296
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 3: this makes sense because of what he's been through and

1297
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 3: like he's not as bad as these other motherfuckers, So

1298
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 3: like now we're supposed to re embrace him by or

1299
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 3: embrace him at all by default. But I couldn't. I

1300
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 3: couldn't get there.

1301
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, glad that Bello was able to forgive him, but

1302
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 2: like I personally was not. Like that didn't work for me,

1303
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 2: and I feel like going into this last few with

1304
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 2: that on my mind, it made me dislike the ending

1305
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 2: even more because the Bella of the book breaks that

1306
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 2: cycle of abuse and uses what she's learned in medicine

1307
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 2: to help people, which ties into her socialist awakening of

1308
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: like take what you have and distribute it to other people.

1309
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 2: But the Bella of the movie does what her father

1310
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 2: did and continues this cycle of abuse, and you know,

1311
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 2: is her target far better chosen?

1312
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 3: Like yeah, like she's like Dexter.

1313
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 2: That guy is the most evil guy in the world,

1314
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 2: so she's not a villain. But I just felt like

1315
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 2: she was participating in the cycle of abuse in a

1316
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,600
Speaker 2: way that the movie was like, this is awesome. It

1317
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 2: just felt like a little overly simplistic, And once I

1318
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 2: found out how the book ended, I was like, yeah,

1319
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 2: that does seem more in line with like what she's

1320
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: been building towards in her development. It almost feels like

1321
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 2: a step backwards to do exactly what her father was doing,

1322
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 2: because she spent all this time finding out who she

1323
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 2: was and wanting to be different.

1324
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, do I find it cathartic to see

1325
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: the general bleeding like a goat Hell? Yeah, yeah I do.

1326
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 1: But also it's like you could have just let him

1327
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 1: bleed out from his wound and die like it's so

1328
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 1: much extra effort to perform surgery on them.

1329
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 2: Turn him into your chihuah Yeah.

1330
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 3: Right, you know, sometimes death is too kind.

1331
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 2: It's true. My mom says that all the time.

1332
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,440
Speaker 1: Some people deserve a freakier fate.

1333
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 2: Life sentence of being a goat. Honestly, it sounds better

1334
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 2: in this Dan and Age.

1335
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, someone go me. Honestly, I want to walk

1336
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 3: around and bleed, eat grass and just not worry about shit.

1337
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 1: I know, but I think that speaks to the strength

1338
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: of this movie, or one of the stronger aspects of it,

1339
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: which is the examination of the way and I'm speaking

1340
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: generally here, you know, hashtag not all men, but the

1341
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: way that like men tend to perceive women, the way

1342
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 1: men tend to deceive women, what men tend to value

1343
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: in women, how men want to control women physically and

1344
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: or behaviorally, how men resent women having free will and

1345
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 1: minds of their own, and sexual autonomy and sexual desire,

1346
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Because we see that displayed

1347
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 1: in one way or another in each of these men.

1348
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: Where like with God, it's like an extreme example of

1349
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 1: a man like taking away slash manipulating the autonomy of

1350
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:51,639
Speaker 1: a woman as far as like bringing her back from

1351
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: the dead and then putting her own baby's brain in

1352
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 1: her body and then not telling her he did any

1353
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 1: of that until the end of the movie. You've got

1354
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 1: as we've discussed a little bit already, like knowing pretty

1355
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:07,799
Speaker 1: early on that she has the mind of a child

1356
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: and also doesn't tell her that and falls in love

1357
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: with her despite you know, knowing that she is a baby.

1358
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:16,919
Speaker 2: Right then You've.

1359
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 1: Got Duncan, which is a whole Schmorgas board of stuff

1360
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: where like the first time he meets her, he assaults her,

1361
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: he grows increasingly jealous, and he's trying to control her,

1362
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 1: constantly control her behavior. He resents that she has sexual

1363
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: desire outside of him, all this stuff, and then he's

1364
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: like driven to the brink of madness because of his

1365
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: resentment toward her.

1366
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 2: All of this is like there is a really like

1367
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:53,600
Speaker 2: wide gradient of like types of fragile men available in

1368
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 2: this movie, and I feel like they're all you know,

1369
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 2: they're like over the top because it's a fantasy movie,

1370
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 2: but it feels distinctive, feels like rerack disable oh, sure enough.

1371
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 2: I just wish that you got like more of a

1372
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 2: gradiot outside of Bella with women, Like, there's just not

1373
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 2: as much not that I necessarily have confidence in this

1374
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 2: specific team to like show a wider gradient of women,

1375
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 2: but I did like the sort of running theme of

1376
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 2: like Bella is a person when it behooves a guy,

1377
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 2: and then she's property when it behooves them too, where

1378
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 2: she like has to shout at the captain at the

1379
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 2: end like I am not She doesn't say property. What

1380
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 2: does she say territory? I am not territory. Yeah, Like

1381
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 2: she has to remind different men in different ways that

1382
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:49,520
Speaker 2: she is a person, and I feel like that plays

1383
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 2: really well. And anytime she reminds someone she's a person,

1384
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 2: generally something bad happens to her, which is I mean

1385
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: even more typical of that time, but still obviously happens, right.

1386
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,879
Speaker 2: I thought, Yeah, this movie does really well with showing

1387
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: like all of the different ways that male possessiveness and

1388
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 2: insecurity can manifest. But there's just really the one woman,

1389
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 2: which is like the problem of so many movies.

1390
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 1: It's so weird, I know, because you do have these

1391
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 1: different relationships that she forms over the course of the movie.

1392
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 1: You know, Martha is like teaching Bella to enrich her

1393
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,559
Speaker 1: mind and that there's more to life than satiating our

1394
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: most carnal desires, which is like, I guess true, but

1395
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,839
Speaker 1: like you can also be horny and read about philosophy, Martha.

1396
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:48,639
Speaker 1: There's Twinette who becomes Bella's ally and then later lover,

1397
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 1: and she like helps Bella learn about socialism and stuff

1398
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:57,560
Speaker 1: like that, but we kind of learn next to nothing

1399
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: else about Twinette. And I do appreciate representation on screen

1400
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: of like, you know, a queer sex scene, but I'm like,

1401
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: who is this person again? Like can we learn more

1402
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: about Twinette? And then Madam Swiney. There's a number of

1403
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,839
Speaker 1: scenes that are pretty significant between Bella and Madam Swiney,

1404
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 1: where you know, she's admiring Bella for wanting to carve

1405
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 1: her own path to freedom, and she's like, let me

1406
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 1: help you on that journey. But then she's also like,

1407
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 1: but I need money, and I need you to make

1408
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: money for me, because that's just how it works.

1409
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 2: I think she's interesting for that reason. Yeah, I'll go

1410
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 2: to bat for Madam Swiney. I feel like she's like

1411
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:41,719
Speaker 2: this weird socialist writer stock character where she's like, yeah,

1412
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 2: my politics are great. But you gotta play the game, Bella,

1413
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 2: you gotta play the game. And she's like, do I

1414
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:50,919
Speaker 2: And then at the end she's like, I do.

1415
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 3: A relatable internal battle. We all fight every day.

1416
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it felt at least like intentionally dissonan, like that

1417
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 2: was of why she was there.

1418
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. True. And then there's finally missus prim the like

1419
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 1: housekeeper at God's house, and at first she hates Bella

1420
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: and thinks she's a nuisance, but then at the end

1421
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I'm cool with you now that all

1422
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 1: these men are dead or goats.

1423
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 3: So you know what's weird about these men too, is

1424
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 3: that why are they all identical? Like it's insane how

1425
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 3: they're shade of black hair is all exactly the same.

1426
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:31,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all very similar.

1427
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 3: It is fascinating to me that they're all just these

1428
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 3: like identical horrible dudes who are like a slightly different flavor.

1429
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 3: It's like Rocky Road. And then I don't know, whatever, whatever,

1430
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:45,320
Speaker 3: it's a similar flavor to Rocky Road. I don't eat

1431
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 3: that much ice cream, I dad, we can't handle it.

1432
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 3: I eat cheese though. We went over Then, Yes, I

1433
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 3: did think that it was funny that, like, I almost

1434
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 3: like scramble the male characters because they all look the

1435
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:02,759
Speaker 3: same and they're all awful. But I couldn't forget Bella

1436
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 3: if I tried.

1437
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, true, And.

1438
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 3: I do think to be optimistic about this whole thing.

1439
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 3: The one place where Bella and all these men can

1440
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 3: absolutely agree, there is no fighting. Everyone has the same

1441
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 3: take on it is her fashion.

1442
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 2: True, everyone's like the looks are solid.

1443
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, no one's trying to control what she wears.

1444
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 3: They're like she can clearly handle that. She looks great.

1445
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 1: And again, the movie just one best costume design, Yeah, earned.

1446
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 3: Fully because I love that about the looks because they

1447
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 3: are sexy, but they're wacky. They're like whack a doodle dandy,

1448
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 3: which I really I really appreciated that. Again, I just

1449
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 3: I will forgive so much about this movie because of

1450
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:54,479
Speaker 3: what she wore.

1451
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 2: The last thing I have, I think is just like

1452
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,679
Speaker 2: a little where and like the way that the source

1453
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:09,799
Speaker 2: material kind of shines through is on the idea of

1454
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 2: like labor and what constitutes labor and how Bella's view

1455
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 2: on labor evolves over time, because I do feel like

1456
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 2: miss prim is connected in that conversation, even though I

1457
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 2: don't think the movie really sticks the landing on it.

1458
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 2: But like Bella doesn't understand a world in which she

1459
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 2: her needs are not constantly met because she grows up

1460
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 2: with this immense privilege in her like question Mark, who

1461
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 2: knows the amount of time this movie is supposed to

1462
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 2: take place over, I have no fucking clue, But like

1463
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 2: it's not until she has her political awakening and which

1464
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 2: again I think is really badly done in this movie

1465
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 2: with just like a shot of poverty, the cinematic shot

1466
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 2: or whatever, but like that shot that like changes her

1467
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 2: view of labor moving forward, and like I feel like

1468
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 2: that culminates in like she has a job, she's a

1469
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 2: sex worker. She understands the highs and lows that comes

1470
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 2: with working in the service industry, and that culminates to

1471
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 2: like when she sees her mom's ex husband, question Mark,

1472
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:25,640
Speaker 2: her father, her father, when she's married to her father.

1473
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 1: Again, Yeah, her husband father.

1474
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 2: There's a lot of daddies in this movie. Yeah, but

1475
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:34,240
Speaker 2: like her husband is also her daddy, and her daddy

1476
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,720
Speaker 2: is also gone, so there's like there's a lot going on.

1477
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: The TLC specials and the tale is oldest time when

1478
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 1: your dad is your god and your dad is also

1479
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 1: your husband.

1480
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 3: Who among us, and you are also your baby, and.

1481
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: You were also your own baby and your own mother,

1482
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 1: but with.

1483
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 2: Her biological dad technically Captain Blessington whatever the fucking Dave

1484
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 2: is is like holding his employees at gunpoint and essentially

1485
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:02,080
Speaker 2: torturing them, and then she learns that her mother and

1486
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 2: her body did the same thing. Like, I like that

1487
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 2: is like a full circle on the labor discussion. And

1488
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 2: I thought like in general, like it wasn't super dwelled on,

1489
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 2: but I liked it on like further viewings, it's like

1490
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 2: over the top and ridiculous, but you know, her views

1491
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 2: on labor definitely evolve and change along with everything else,

1492
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 2: which is again like why the more the more I

1493
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 2: watch the movie, the more I'm like, I don't really

1494
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:32,800
Speaker 2: agree with the sex criticism. I could see a lot

1495
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: of the visual criticism, like I get it if it's uncomfortable,

1496
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 2: and like you think that that time can be better

1497
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 2: used elsewhere, but like she's on a lot of journeys,

1498
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 2: just they're not all visually.

1499
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 1: As interesting as sex and naked bodies. Yeah, yeah, I

1500
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: do think that the movie and we I think already

1501
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 1: said this to some extent, but that the movie SU

1502
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:59,839
Speaker 1: spends too long on that chunk because there's no forward momentum.

1503
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 1: For a while, is just like her learning about sex

1504
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: and exploring her sexuality, and then by the time she

1505
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,680
Speaker 1: starts to like learn about philosophy and learn about socialism

1506
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: and has her like political discovery.

1507
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:16,719
Speaker 2: It's like two hundred books later. But you see every

1508
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 2: sexual encounter.

1509
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 1: Right, I'm just like, uh, why spend so much time

1510
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: on that, because to me, it would make sense if

1511
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:26,599
Speaker 1: it was like not in montage necessarily, but a few

1512
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 1: minutes are spent on her sex life, and then a

1513
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:33,519
Speaker 1: few more minutes like it, but it just again, that

1514
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:37,080
Speaker 1: momentum comes to a screeching halt for like twenty minutes

1515
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:39,759
Speaker 1: while she's like out there fucking a bunch of people

1516
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: or I guess mostly just the one guy. But in

1517
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 1: any case, I just I feel like there was a

1518
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 1: better way to use that time, and I wish that

1519
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: there was more about her ARC that has her learning

1520
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:56,679
Speaker 1: about other things and expanding her mind starts happening sooner,

1521
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 1: But instead it's like, no, she's having sex with a

1522
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:08,560
Speaker 1: shitty person, which also relatable. Who among us hasn't.

1523
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 3: That's what I was gonna say is like, weirdly, I

1524
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 3: felt fine with the amount of time that was spent

1525
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 3: on her fucking this awful person, because like, it's fun

1526
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 3: to watch people have sex. It's even fun to watch

1527
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 3: people have sex that they probably shouldn't be having within certain.

1528
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 2: Boundaries, right, which just like debatable within this movie.

1529
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is debatable with this movie. For sure. I

1530
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 3: didn't long to spend more time with her like book

1531
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:39,639
Speaker 3: in hand, Like here's a montage of her like reading,

1532
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 3: you know, like I didn't. I don't know if I

1533
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 3: necessarily would. I mean sure, actually, like that sounds aesthetic

1534
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 3: and amazing, and I would love to see like her

1535
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 3: reading outfits. But I do think that more time could

1536
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 3: have been spent kind of confronting head on the stuff

1537
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 3: with God and like the stuff with her ultimate husband.

1538
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 3: And how again, we mentioned that we just like forgave

1539
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 3: all those people so immediately we were expected to, So

1540
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 3: if anything, I think we could have cut away some

1541
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 3: of that stuff, not because it's like offensive or whatever,

1542
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 3: but because like there was so much that went unaddressed. Again,

1543
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 3: despite the movie being twenty minutes too long.

1544
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like it's not that I want to see

1545
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:26,840
Speaker 2: montages of her reading it's that I would have preferred,

1546
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:32,639
Speaker 2: but more scenes where you see the result of that reading,

1547
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 2: because that felt way more rushed.

1548
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you're right. I mean I heard it linguistically

1549
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 3: and I wasn't mad at it. I was like surprised

1550
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 3: and delighted by it. But with more thought, and indeed,

1551
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:47,040
Speaker 3: I am becoming the madder at it. It's like she

1552
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 3: went overnight from Goo Goo Gaga to like, I read

1553
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 3: Nietzsche and you know, I am incorporating that vernacular into

1554
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 3: the way that I talk every day. It was, Yeah,

1555
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 3: it was overnight the movie.

1556
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, also to speak to the like why does she

1557
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:08,120
Speaker 1: so readily forgive these awful men, namely God and Max,

1558
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: to the point where she agrees to marry Max. And

1559
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 1: there is that exchange of dialogue where she says something

1560
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:17,719
Speaker 1: like I've been a whore, you understand Cox for money

1561
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 1: inside me, which is a hilarious way to phrase that,

1562
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 1: And she's like, are you okay with that? Does that

1563
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: challenge the desire for ownership that men have? And Max responds,

1564
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 1: I find myself merely jealous of the men's time with you,

1565
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 1: rather than any moral aspersion against you. It is your body.

1566
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 1: Bella Baxter yours to give freely, and I'm like, okay, good,

1567
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: good attitude to have. But that doesn't mean you have

1568
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 1: to marry him because you said that. But it's kind

1569
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 1: of suggested that that's her train of thought because the

1570
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:51,679
Speaker 1: scene after that is them getting married. So I'm like, right,

1571
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 1: you don't have to marry him.

1572
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:56,600
Speaker 2: I can get on fervid that as far as like,

1573
01:30:57,280 --> 01:31:00,599
Speaker 2: the first time that marriage is floated, she has no

1574
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,160
Speaker 2: say in it, right, She's presented with like the illusion

1575
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 2: of choice because she is not able to consent to

1576
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 2: marriage nor sex because she's.

1577
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:10,200
Speaker 1: Like five, a toddler.

1578
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 2: But when it comes back around, yeah, I think that

1579
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:14,559
Speaker 2: there could have been another way to get that across,

1580
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 2: and ultimately she doesn't go through with it, But like,

1581
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 2: I do like that the second time it is very

1582
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 2: firmly her choice. That's true, but again it is like

1583
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:30,439
Speaker 2: choosing something somewhat conventional. But again it makes more sense

1584
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,560
Speaker 2: for me in the book ending, where like the advantage

1585
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 2: of being married to him in Victorian times is that

1586
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 2: he is also a doctor and they can work together,

1587
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 2: and like, just based on what we see of Bella Baxter,

1588
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that any marriage she's in would not be monogamous.

1589
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 2: I don't think that she's the closed marriage type. So

1590
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,559
Speaker 2: like I wasn't super bothered by it. I just was

1591
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 2: more like bummed out by but also felt like, oh, yeah,

1592
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 2: that's the thing where it's like you marry the first

1593
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:05,439
Speaker 2: person who like kind of respects you, which totally you know,

1594
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 2: like that certainly does happen.

1595
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:11,639
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah it's happening left right and center.

1596
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah it was. It did give Stockholm syndrome a little bit.

1597
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 3: Another b protagonist, miss Bell from Beauty and the Beast,

1598
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 3: it was a little bit a little bit that, but

1599
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:26,200
Speaker 3: that dude was less hot than the Beast.

1600
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 2: So anyway, I think Max, like God, is also sort

1601
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 2: of let off the hook, like we were talking about

1602
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 2: this earlier where he's just like.

1603
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:35,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, right right.

1604
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 2: But like I feel like the movie forgives him for

1605
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 2: willingly and with full understanding, participating in trapping her and

1606
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:49,120
Speaker 2: treating her like property. Yeah yeah, and lusting after her

1607
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:51,640
Speaker 2: when she was a baby. It doesn't just feel like

1608
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:56,160
Speaker 2: Bella says, I forgive you. It also feels like the

1609
01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 2: movie is like, and this is the guy for her,

1610
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:01,840
Speaker 2: and I just like, again, I'm like, I just think

1611
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,640
Speaker 2: maybe if you have a woman co writer that is

1612
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:07,759
Speaker 2: not the result.

1613
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:08,799
Speaker 3: Agree.

1614
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also wish that because we see Felicity at

1615
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 1: the end too, when they're like in the little courtyard

1616
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:20,560
Speaker 1: and the General goat Man is like bah.

1617
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 2: General goat Man is a great character name.

1618
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then missus prim is being nicer and Max

1619
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:32,080
Speaker 1: is there just sort of like chilling, and then Felicity

1620
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:34,800
Speaker 1: was also there, and I'm like, Okay, well, what's going

1621
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:37,799
Speaker 1: on with Bella and Felicity? Are they friends? Is Bella

1622
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 1: Felicity's mentor? Like I want to know a little bit

1623
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: more about that too, Okay, Anyway, is there anything else

1624
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:46,880
Speaker 1: anyone wants to talk about?

1625
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 2: I feel like we cracked it, We figured it out,

1626
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:51,680
Speaker 2: we cracked it.

1627
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: I also feel like we've barely scratched the surface of

1628
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: this very complex movie.

1629
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:58,800
Speaker 2: But actually, the last thing I wanted to say is

1630
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 2: like I tried to research. I mean, it would be

1631
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:06,080
Speaker 2: an infinity project to try to track down all of

1632
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 2: the analysis of this movie, and there's just too fucking

1633
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 2: much of it. Like we've talked about, there was a

1634
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,600
Speaker 2: fair amount of backlash to the protracted sex scenes with

1635
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 2: a presumably underage character and all of the stuff that

1636
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,519
Speaker 2: came with that. I also found a number of trans

1637
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 2: writers that were very pro this movie, reading it as

1638
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 2: a resurrection within a familiar but new body and like

1639
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:37,000
Speaker 2: navigating identity inside of a new body and a new

1640
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:39,639
Speaker 2: identity inside of a body that is familiar but new

1641
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:42,519
Speaker 2: and like. So I just wanted to acknowledge that read

1642
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 2: of the movie, which I had heard about but I

1643
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 2: hadn't like, actually spent any time reading before prepping for

1644
01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:50,360
Speaker 2: this episode. So we can link to several of those

1645
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 2: essays as well.

1646
01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 3: I like knowing that because I don't know if I'm

1647
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 3: just in my like optimism era or what, but I

1648
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 3: think it's nice to find excuses to appreciate a piece

1649
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 3: of art that like a fuck ton of work went into,

1650
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 3: even if there are critiques that are, yeah, you know

1651
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:16,759
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like I think for me, the bottom

1652
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:20,120
Speaker 3: line of this movie is like your ghost Land. The

1653
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 3: Moost is a little jerkin' off little boy. He loves

1654
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:29,200
Speaker 3: a stunt. He is an edge lord for me. He

1655
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 3: loves to like provoke, but not in the way that

1656
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:38,200
Speaker 3: he thinks he's provoking. And he's asking us to forgive

1657
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:42,960
Speaker 3: a lot of nonsense because we're so like caught up

1658
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:47,599
Speaker 3: in that provocation and at the end of the day

1659
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:51,519
Speaker 3: like it worked because I am actually at the end

1660
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 3: of the day forgiving a lot, but not for the

1661
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,800
Speaker 3: reasons why he wants me to make those pardons, if

1662
01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 3: that makes sense. Yeah, art is so up to interpretation,

1663
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:04,000
Speaker 3: Like because there was no woman in the room, I

1664
01:36:04,040 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 3: don't think the movie he intended to make is a

1665
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:11,559
Speaker 3: landing in the same way on all the women viewers

1666
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 3: who are going to see it.

1667
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1668
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 3: I mean there was Emmastone as an executive producer for sure,

1669
01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 3: but I'm talking about like in the writing of it and.

1670
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:19,479
Speaker 2: Such still like overwhelmingly men.

1671
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:23,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so like, in spite of all that,

1672
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:28,519
Speaker 3: I do like that there's so much to find in

1673
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:33,719
Speaker 3: this movie that is positive, empowering, stylish feminists, et cetera,

1674
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 3: and that reflects well on the viewers, even if the

1675
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:42,280
Speaker 3: people who made it didn't engineer those things. If that

1676
01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 3: makes sense.

1677
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. For me, the bottom line is the movie

1678
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 1: would have benefited from more perspective from women on the

1679
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:59,640
Speaker 1: storytelling and creative end of things, because the things that

1680
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 1: I think this movie mishandles are things that if a

1681
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 1: woman creative was involved, she would have been like no, now,

1682
01:37:11,160 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 1: let's not do that, or let's like, you know, make

1683
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:19,720
Speaker 1: this adaptation change to kind of modernize this or make

1684
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:25,000
Speaker 1: it more intersectional, or you know, whatever needed to happen.

1685
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 1: And instead it's just so many men making choices and

1686
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:34,240
Speaker 1: in some cases like they handled things well. Again, like

1687
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:38,680
Speaker 1: the way that many of the male characters are behaving

1688
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:42,639
Speaker 1: in their conduct as it relates to their interactions with women.

1689
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 1: I think that all tracks very well, but other things

1690
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: not so much. I will say that, and I think

1691
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:52,320
Speaker 1: we touched on this a little bit already, But something

1692
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:56,679
Speaker 1: I really appreciated is that because of Bella's baby brain,

1693
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 1: she moves through the world with this like sense of

1694
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:06,720
Speaker 1: adventure and wonder and like shamelessness and willingness to indulge

1695
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:11,600
Speaker 1: that most adults, especially women, are sort of like conditioned

1696
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:16,839
Speaker 1: and societally forced to unlearn because of like propriety and politeness,

1697
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 1: especially in this like Victorian era. So the fact that

1698
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 1: you see this woman and even though she's like again,

1699
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 1: baby brain for a lot of this, but someone who

1700
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:30,400
Speaker 1: appears on the surface to be a woman, you see her,

1701
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, eating whatever delicious things she wants whenever she wants.

1702
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:37,840
Speaker 1: You see her fucking whenever she wants and whoever she wants.

1703
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:41,520
Speaker 1: You see her just being curious and asking whatever questions

1704
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,800
Speaker 1: she wants and rejecting the notion of the status quo

1705
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:48,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, and challenging the power and

1706
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:50,559
Speaker 1: behavior of men, and all of these things. We're just

1707
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:54,880
Speaker 1: very refreshing to see because I too like to eat

1708
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:57,880
Speaker 1: delicious things and speak my mind.

1709
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, there's like something to learn from Baby Brain.

1710
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 3: And it's like, is it baby brain or is it

1711
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 3: just unmitigated brain? You know, like, yeah, and that's an

1712
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 3: interesting question to ponder.

1713
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:11,800
Speaker 2: I think that. Yeah. Like where I divert from the

1714
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:15,479
Speaker 2: Baby Brain critique is that this movie is very much

1715
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:19,439
Speaker 2: for adults. I don't think that this is a movie

1716
01:39:19,479 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 2: that is being marketed at kids or young people. I

1717
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:26,639
Speaker 2: mean not to say that like people coming of age

1718
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:29,080
Speaker 2: won't find this movie. That almost always happens, but it's

1719
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:31,880
Speaker 2: an R rated movie. I think it is like safe

1720
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 2: to assume that the target audience of this movie knows

1721
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 2: not to fuck a baby. But if that creative choice

1722
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 2: is removed from the movie, everything changes and a lot

1723
01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:47,160
Speaker 2: of the commentary becomes impossible. I think, like what bugs

1724
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:48,720
Speaker 2: me about this I think there's a lot to love

1725
01:39:48,760 --> 01:39:51,960
Speaker 2: about this movie. I ended up liking it. I like,

1726
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:53,840
Speaker 2: the first time I watched it, I didn't like it.

1727
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:57,240
Speaker 2: Now I'm like, well, I watch it again anytime soon. No,

1728
01:39:57,320 --> 01:39:59,679
Speaker 2: I've seen it three times. I'd like, if there's anything

1729
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:02,000
Speaker 2: else to had from this movie, it will never reach me.

1730
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:05,719
Speaker 2: But I ended up liking it more than I originally did.

1731
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 2: But I think like the big thing for me here

1732
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 2: that I like stand by of like original viewing Jamie,

1733
01:40:12,840 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 2: is that there is like a clear example within this

1734
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:20,960
Speaker 2: director's body of work that when he is centering women,

1735
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 2: he needs a woman in the writing room for it

1736
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:28,920
Speaker 2: to translate. And that's like very clear between his last

1737
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 2: movie and this movie. I think the Favorite in general

1738
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 2: is a stronger work and has more to say about women,

1739
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:39,400
Speaker 2: very likely because of the one differential, which is that

1740
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 2: it was adapted by a work from a woman by

1741
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 2: a woman, not saying that you have to be a

1742
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:48,719
Speaker 2: woman to have something interesting to say, but it certainly

1743
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 2: doesn't hurt. And I think your ghost laid the most

1744
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:55,880
Speaker 2: in Tony mcnamaraned a woman in the room to maximize

1745
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 2: their joint male sleigh. Okay, that's all I have to say.

1746
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 2: About this movie. I refuse to say another word. It

1747
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:06,280
Speaker 2: passes the Bechdel test for sure.

1748
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:11,800
Speaker 1: Yes, quite a bit between a number of different combinations

1749
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:16,160
Speaker 1: of characters. Bella and Martha are talking about masturbating in philosophy,

1750
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:19,479
Speaker 1: my two favorite things. Ella and Twinette are talking about

1751
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:24,639
Speaker 1: socialism and their C section scars. Bella and Madame Swiney

1752
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:29,000
Speaker 1: are talking about various things. Yeah. So there are many

1753
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:33,040
Speaker 1: conversations that pass the Bechdel test, although so many of

1754
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:38,920
Speaker 1: the interactions are between Bella and men, So there's that.

1755
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 3: But it is cool that when those conversations aren't happening

1756
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:44,360
Speaker 3: and she's talking to women, they're not talking about men.

1757
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 3: Mostly they almost never are.

1758
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the second men are gone, Bella is not

1759
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:50,400
Speaker 2: thinking about them.

1760
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:52,759
Speaker 3: Out of sight, out of mind, Yeah, truly.

1761
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:57,240
Speaker 2: Bella Baxter ultimately like an amazing character. I love her.

1762
01:41:57,720 --> 01:41:59,559
Speaker 3: I love her, and that out of sight, out of

1763
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:02,160
Speaker 3: mind thing reflects another thing that's great about her, which

1764
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 3: is she is so present. Yes, yeah, which is aspirational.

1765
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:09,360
Speaker 1: She's noticing things.

1766
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 3: She's realizing things.

1767
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:15,680
Speaker 1: When women realize things, it's beautiful. It's huge for us

1768
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,600
Speaker 1: as far as our nipple scale goes. So rating the

1769
01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:21,799
Speaker 1: movie on a scale of zero two five nipples based

1770
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:26,120
Speaker 1: on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll

1771
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:30,640
Speaker 1: go I'm somewhere around like a four nipple rating. I

1772
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: think the movie does accomplish a lot. I think its

1773
01:42:36,120 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 1: shortcomings are fairly obvious to me, and again wouldn't have

1774
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:45,519
Speaker 1: to be shortcomings if they had more meaningfully included more

1775
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 1: women in the creative and storytelling process. But the movie

1776
01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 1: has a clear agenda, which is to show the kind

1777
01:42:55,960 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 1: of growth and liberation of a woman and to comment

1778
01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:06,920
Speaker 1: on toxic male behavior, especially the way they perceive and

1779
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:10,280
Speaker 1: treat women. So I think the movie is doing a

1780
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 1: lot of those things pretty well, and I'll give it

1781
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:19,800
Speaker 1: four nipples. Pray, Pray, thank you. My nipples are going

1782
01:43:19,800 --> 01:43:24,840
Speaker 1: to Susie Bumba, who plays Antwinete, or just Twinett is

1783
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:28,840
Speaker 1: probably a nickname for Antwinette. I'm guessing I'll give one

1784
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:36,600
Speaker 1: to Martha, i will give one to Madam Swiney, and

1785
01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:38,479
Speaker 1: I'll give one to I'm a Stone.

1786
01:43:39,080 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 2: The end, I'm going to get fractional. I'm going to

1787
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:44,360
Speaker 2: do three point seven five, partially just to kind of

1788
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:46,760
Speaker 2: be a bitch. I think that like I'm gonna go

1789
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:49,000
Speaker 2: three point seven five just because I don't want to

1790
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:53,320
Speaker 2: give four men navigating their way around telling a story

1791
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 2: about woman's awakening. Four I refuse to do it. I cannot.

1792
01:43:58,439 --> 01:43:59,040
Speaker 1: That's fair.

1793
01:43:59,160 --> 01:44:03,640
Speaker 2: But I think with that limitation, there is still a

1794
01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:06,639
Speaker 2: lot going on in this movie that most movies don't

1795
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 2: even bother with. And I think that Emma Stone's performance

1796
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,439
Speaker 2: and involvement in production, I think we should always mention

1797
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 2: when the star of a movie is also a producer,

1798
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:18,760
Speaker 2: because I feel like you can really feel it in

1799
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:21,120
Speaker 2: the movie and it answers a lot of questions about

1800
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 2: like we know that Emma's Stone would not be put

1801
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:26,719
Speaker 2: into a situation to do a sex scene she didn't

1802
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 2: want to do because she is in charge, you know.

1803
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 2: And that's an oversimplification, but stuff like that, I think

1804
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:34,800
Speaker 2: that this movie has a lot going for it, and

1805
01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, a woman's socialist awakening. You know, I can't

1806
01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 2: hate that movie.

1807
01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 1: And I won't true.

1808
01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:46,160
Speaker 2: So I'll go three point seventy five and I'm gonna

1809
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:50,120
Speaker 2: just make it clean. I'm going to give all of

1810
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:55,439
Speaker 2: my nipples to Catherine Hunter, who plays Swiney, just because

1811
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:58,720
Speaker 2: I think she is such an incredible character actor, and

1812
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:02,599
Speaker 2: you should watch the Joel Cohen Macbeth where she plays

1813
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 2: the witches.

1814
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, Amanda, how about you.

1815
01:45:06,080 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 3: One of my best friends has a third nipple, So

1816
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:14,160
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna give three full size nipples and

1817
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:18,000
Speaker 3: one third nipple nipple if that's okay?

1818
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:19,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, please.

1819
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:23,720
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna give them all as well to one

1820
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:28,879
Speaker 3: single person. Holly Waddington, the costume designer. Yeah.

1821
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:32,080
Speaker 2: Oh yes, Oscar winner Holly Waddington.

1822
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:36,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, like truly life changing for me.

1823
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:40,680
Speaker 1: She did a great job. Well, Amanda, thank you so

1824
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:42,360
Speaker 1: much for joining us for this discussion.

1825
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:45,759
Speaker 2: What a blast we did it. We figured it out.

1826
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:47,080
Speaker 1: We cracked the code.

1827
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:51,400
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what a distinct pleasure. Thank you so much.

1828
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 2: Where can we find you online? Where can we buy

1829
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:55,960
Speaker 2: your new book? Tell us everything?

1830
01:45:56,240 --> 01:45:59,920
Speaker 3: Oh that's so nice. So my book is available April ninth,

1831
01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:03,519
Speaker 3: wherever you buy books and hardback ebook audiobook. I read

1832
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:07,360
Speaker 3: it myself, and you can find my podcast Sounds Like

1833
01:46:07,400 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 3: a Cult on all major podcast platforms. Episodes come out

1834
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:15,400
Speaker 3: on Tuesdays, and stay tuned because these two right here

1835
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:18,240
Speaker 3: are gonna come on for an episode on Sounds Like

1836
01:46:18,280 --> 01:46:22,760
Speaker 3: a Cult whose topic we're still noodling. It's a show

1837
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 3: about the modern day cults we all follow, and we're

1838
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:27,679
Speaker 3: still debating between the cult of Shrek and the cult

1839
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:30,880
Speaker 3: of Leo DiCaprio. There is a right answer. So far,

1840
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:35,400
Speaker 3: the listeners have voted for the wrong answer. But I

1841
01:46:35,439 --> 01:46:40,479
Speaker 3: got so many dms specifically requesting the right answer that

1842
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:43,600
Speaker 3: who knows, we might we might have to stop in

1843
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:46,599
Speaker 3: the middle of the episode and end up doing who knows,

1844
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:50,320
Speaker 3: So anyway, that sounds like a cult. And then I

1845
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:54,519
Speaker 3: am reluctantly on Instagram at Amanda Underscore Motel and I

1846
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:56,639
Speaker 3: have a substack very good.

1847
01:46:56,920 --> 01:47:00,920
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram and some Timestell Twitter,

1848
01:47:01,400 --> 01:47:06,240
Speaker 2: at Bechdel Cast. Individually, we are at jamiechrist Superstar and

1849
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:10,559
Speaker 2: at Caitlin Tourande on Instagram, and you can join our

1850
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:13,479
Speaker 2: Patreon aka Matreon. We're for five dollars a month. You

1851
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:16,760
Speaker 2: can get two bonus episodes and access to over one

1852
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:18,960
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty episodes of back catalog.

1853
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 1: Sleigh, that's right. You can buy our merch at teapublic

1854
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:28,960
Speaker 1: dot com, slash the Bechdel Cast, and you can see

1855
01:47:29,040 --> 01:47:33,799
Speaker 1: us live on our Shrektanner tour in May in various

1856
01:47:34,160 --> 01:47:36,720
Speaker 1: cities abroad for US.

1857
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:40,240
Speaker 2: Yes, in the UK and Dublin. Oh that's huge, So.

1858
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:42,920
Speaker 1: Go to our link tree link tree slash Bechdel Cast

1859
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:48,200
Speaker 1: for tickets to those shows. And with that a Google

1860
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:49,480
Speaker 1: Goga Bye bye.

1861
01:47:49,680 --> 01:47:53,120
Speaker 2: Goog goga wineglass clink. We did it, ladies. The man's

1862
01:47:53,120 --> 01:48:03,120
Speaker 2: a goat dundu and let's go goats bye.

1863
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:06,479
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1864
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:10,439
Speaker 1: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1865
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:13,479
Speaker 1: by mo La Boord. Our theme song was composed by

1866
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:17,800
Speaker 1: Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo in

1867
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:21,240
Speaker 1: merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

1868
01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 1: to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

1869
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 1: visit Linktree slash Bechdel Cast