Speaker 1: These are institutions in our life. Alan, these sports that
Speaker 1: we love, our institutions in our life, and they have
Speaker 1: to be tinkered with very gently. And this isn't gentle.
Speaker 1: I got thoughts in my head. Can't get them, John,
Speaker 1: nothing what I'm thinking about the gown. Thoughts in my head.
Speaker 1: Can't get them. Now, Jo think what I'm thinking about. Hello,
Speaker 1: this is Alan chep Nuck back for another fire drill.
Speaker 1: I am delighted to be joined by my frequent wingman,
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger. This is a throwback to about two thousand
Speaker 1: and fifteen when Michael and I first started podcasting together.
Speaker 1: We were not quite early adapters, but there weren't a
Speaker 1: lot of folks doing podcasts back then. It's not that
Speaker 1: the crowded landscape it has become in the golf space.
Speaker 1: So this is fun. We should We should tip our
Speaker 1: cap to our departed colleague Ryan French, who is part
Speaker 1: of these the Sunday night fire drills for a long time.
Speaker 1: Ryan's left the collective to pursue some other opportunities, which
Speaker 1: we're all rooting for him. We all love Ryan, a
Speaker 1: great human being, fun colleague. We'll miss his random digressions
Speaker 1: about players none of us have ever heard of. He
Speaker 1: definitely added an institutional knowledge to these conversations that is
Speaker 1: hard to replicate. Michael, you want you wanna send a
Speaker 1: oral bouquet of flowers to Ryan? Yes, very very much. So.
Speaker 1: Ryan's become a good friend in in a short amount
Speaker 1: of time. He absolutely has a heart of gold. Uh.
Speaker 1: He absolutely roots for the underclass. The people that he
Speaker 1: covers is Monday que Info, twitter Feed, like my friend
Speaker 1: Mike Donald, the former PHA tour player. He has a
Speaker 1: natural reporting ability. He has an immense curiosity, He wants
Speaker 1: what's going on. He reduces things to a very basic level.
Speaker 1: And uh, and he's a great friend and a great colleague.
Speaker 1: And and maybe we'll still have him back from on
Speaker 1: this podcast from time to time because I know how
Speaker 1: much he enjoyed it, and we both know alan how
Speaker 1: much he added to it. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, as
Speaker 1: I told Ryan a bunch of times that the doors
Speaker 1: always open, you know, there's always a microphone available if
Speaker 1: he wants to jump back on this pod. We'll see
Speaker 1: how it all shakes out. It's definitely a transitional time
Speaker 1: for all of us. But anyway, just just a typic
Speaker 1: cap to the Ryan and to Ryan because we missed
Speaker 1: that guy so well. Speak of other colleagues, our colleague
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvy, with whom Allan and I've done a long
Speaker 1: series of Need a Fourth podcasts played in the Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico tournament this week and I think et eleven, I
Speaker 1: know he played very well. Yeah, it's so nice to
Speaker 1: see Jeff back between the ropes and I can sense,
Speaker 1: just for in our conversation he's got he's getting some
Speaker 1: of that competitive fireback. And you know, he kind of
Speaker 1: took a couple of years of where he didn't play
Speaker 1: much competitive golf and he moved his family to Australia
Speaker 1: and they went through their own big transition and golf
Speaker 1: was became kind of secondary. But that kind of talent,
Speaker 1: that kind of imagination, that love for the game that
Speaker 1: never goes away. So if you can just get tournament sharp,
Speaker 1: it'll be really fun to see if if Jeff can
Speaker 1: get on a little run here and now you are.
Speaker 1: People may be wondering, are you in a NASA, you know, headquarters,
Speaker 1: what's going on back there? You're actually in the press
Speaker 1: room at Bay Hill. Tell us about the scene there, Michael,
Speaker 1: I'm only ninety miles from Cape Kernaville, So you're not
Speaker 1: too far off. I have a neat memento from today's tournament. This,
Speaker 1: Hey Luise, how are you? This is a you know,
Speaker 1: I've been amazed over the years to watch like Phil.
Speaker 1: Phil will take the cruttiest little nib of a t
Speaker 1: and use it on a part three. This is the
Speaker 1: tea that Maxifoma used and just guarded after one time
Speaker 1: use on a part of three year in the bay
Speaker 1: Hill course. It is one of the most elegant twos
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. It's got a it's got a sturdy stem,
Speaker 1: good point, very cuppy and so anyway, yes, so I'm
Speaker 1: here at the bay Hill Tournament. I'm here in the
Speaker 1: president the winners being interviewed. He's wearing his red sweater.
Speaker 1: And it was a wild tournament here and kind of
Speaker 1: a great reminder really of what just a I won't
Speaker 1: call it an ordinary PGA Tour event, but Arnold Palmer Invitational.
Speaker 1: The Arnold Palmer was never like an elite event. It
Speaker 1: was just Arnie's event. Now of course that I'll have
Speaker 1: a quote elevated status. But I was only here a
Speaker 1: couple of days. But from from what I was here
Speaker 1: it was just like a lot of people having a
Speaker 1: good time. Great weather, great field, flat, easy walking golf
Speaker 1: course and an exciting tournament. You know, kind of just
Speaker 1: what the BJA Tour is all about. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: Tigers knack for winning that tournament and the rapport he
Speaker 1: always had with Arnie certainly elevated it. I would say,
Speaker 1: pre and post Tiger, it lost some luster and clearly
Speaker 1: with mister Palmer no longer there to serve as a
Speaker 1: master of ceremonies, it's it's it's been lacking. But the
Speaker 1: field this year was immense because of the elevated slash
Speaker 1: designated status, and it was fun. I mean a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of star power on the leaderboard. You know,
Speaker 1: John rom they were going to just give him the
Speaker 1: trophy on Thursday after he shot an incredible first round,
Speaker 1: but he kind of lost his mind out there. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've come to like bay Hill. The course itself doesn't
Speaker 1: do much for me, but it's basically like the second
Speaker 1: US Open of the year, or it's the first one.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a precursor because they set it
Speaker 1: up so challenging with brick hard greens and long, rough
Speaker 1: and skinny fairways. It seems like they always have a
Speaker 1: lot of front flags. On Sunday, you got hit over
Speaker 1: the water, but the green is as hard as a rock,
Speaker 1: and the ball just skips to the back bunker or
Speaker 1: into the roff and then you've got these crazy up
Speaker 1: and downs or two puts, and it's really a war
Speaker 1: of attrition. And you know Maxima, who's been one of
Speaker 1: the two or three hottest players in the world, he
Speaker 1: went backwards today in a big way. Rom was never
Speaker 1: seen again after Thursday. Like this course gets in the
Speaker 1: head of some really great players. And uh and you know,
Speaker 1: obviously you were out there watching Jordan's speed. I mean,
Speaker 1: fourteen through seventeen he missed. He missed four puts in
Speaker 1: a row that were quite short, and that was really
Speaker 1: what kept him out out of the winner's circle. What
Speaker 1: are your impressions of Jordan? And just just this war
Speaker 1: of attrition out there. It really is like a US
Speaker 1: open course because the roof is so penal and the
Speaker 1: fairways are so firm and fast. I never I've been
Speaker 1: coming here for a lot of years, I never saw
Speaker 1: so many guys play irons off of par four teas
Speaker 1: or hybrids off the par fives that I did this week,
Speaker 1: because they're so afraid of driving it through the fairway
Speaker 1: and into the rough and some of those, some of
Speaker 1: those rough wise can be really gnarly, almost chip out,
Speaker 1: pitch out, not definitely not go for it, especially with
Speaker 1: you know, all the lakes they have in this golf course.
Speaker 1: So it was neat. It was neat to see. And
Speaker 1: I believe that appauses for Rhyan French and it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a short golf course even though it might be
Speaker 1: seventy four hundred yards on the card, but as firm
Speaker 1: as they have it and as and as long as
Speaker 1: the ball runs with these with these hooded irons, so
Speaker 1: it does sort of play almost like a Churchill Us
Speaker 1: Open course. And it was sort of a war of attrition.
Speaker 1: Speech should have won this thing by three shots. He
Speaker 1: also used to put on twelve that was three and
Speaker 1: a half feet. You know, he put it very poorly,
Speaker 1: no matter what he says. He you know, he has
Speaker 1: those stretches where he can't help. He seems like he's
Speaker 1: more likely to make a twenty footer than he has
Speaker 1: a six footer. Like he just I think it's his
Speaker 1: overall jumpiness where it just he gets mental. He doesn't
Speaker 1: know whether to look at the whole or look at
Speaker 1: the ball. And he's a little bit like Mickelson, who
Speaker 1: sometimes and like Fred Couples before him, where these these
Speaker 1: immense talents, but sometimes it just feels like they lose
Speaker 1: their feel for the short puts, and it's part of
Speaker 1: what's stressful. I mean, like he was chipping in, he
Speaker 1: was hitting, he was hitting some great iron shots, but
Speaker 1: if he was just like a cat on a hot,
Speaker 1: hot tin roof out there on the greens, and it's
Speaker 1: like no hole is ever over With Jordan. We know
Speaker 1: that both good and bad. And it was a little
Speaker 1: dispiriting because I thought that Tita Greene he played really
Speaker 1: well and it seems like his game is in good
Speaker 1: working order. Now that we're in you know, bay Hill
Speaker 1: to me is kind of like the run up that's
Speaker 1: you've already We've already been in Florida for a while,
Speaker 1: but somehow Bay Hill is like now it's a sprint
Speaker 1: to Augusta. And so I guess I'm encouraged by the
Speaker 1: way that Jordan hit the ball and navigated the course
Speaker 1: and kept seemed like he kept as cool until the back.
Speaker 1: Then on Sunday. Then he went completely mental and so
Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: your impressions of just how he handled it emotionally, the
Speaker 1: whole thing. And by the way, you know, speaking of
Speaker 1: major winners, Rory McElroy, Kenny hasn't one of major bays
Speaker 1: right there, Shuffler Hatton hasn't, but you know he's right there.
Speaker 1: I mean Jason day Hoblin not a major winner of Fitzpatrick.
Speaker 1: I mean, you really had it. Really is a classic
Speaker 1: case of a good hard golf course with the cream
Speaker 1: rising in the cup, but weirdness ensuing too, which is
Speaker 1: which is you know, the ultimate beauty of seventy two
Speaker 1: whole stroke play golf with a big field period. Jordan
Speaker 1: just not look I love Jordan, You love Jordan. He
Speaker 1: does not look ready for prime time to me. He
Speaker 1: looks really unsure with the driver. He pitches the ball
Speaker 1: like an absolute demon. I mean, he pitches it beautifully,
Speaker 1: and if he lag puts beautifully, some of them go
Speaker 1: in the hall and then you know what he's gonna
Speaker 1: do from four feet So how are you going to
Speaker 1: play augusta National under those conditions? And how are you
Speaker 1: going to play oh kill for the PHA Championship. It
Speaker 1: doesn't conditions. But and this has been the case for
Speaker 1: a while now, he is making incremental improvements and um,
Speaker 1: he's not the player he was five years ago, which
Speaker 1: is weird, but he's but he's better than the player
Speaker 1: he was three years ago, that's for sure. It's funny
Speaker 1: how we talk about in Jordan, Like, you know, we
Speaker 1: all seez on the moral victories and the little kernels
Speaker 1: of good news. Oh, he pitched it great this week,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I mean, the guy's already a Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer. He had one of the greatest seasons in
Speaker 1: golf history. Um, but he's there's that fragility there that
Speaker 1: makes him so compelling. And to be a fan of
Speaker 1: Speeth and I think we're all a fan of Speeth
Speaker 1: on some level, it's maddening. And I mean it's certainly
Speaker 1: the game's way more interesting when he's playing well, but
Speaker 1: it's also, uh, he can he can give you an ulcer.
Speaker 1: So that's that's the fun of following Jordan. What was
Speaker 1: it like for you watch hant Home. Did you find
Speaker 1: yourself rooting? I know you root for the story, We
Speaker 1: root for the story, but who are you actually rooting
Speaker 1: for Oh Jordan absolutely because he is I mean, that's
Speaker 1: he's the best story. Like if if Jordan could go
Speaker 1: out another run and get back to where close to
Speaker 1: where he was. I mean, he he galvanizes golf Twitter
Speaker 1: in a way that almost no other player does, and
Speaker 1: he's just such an appealing person. He's a great ambassador
Speaker 1: for the for golf, et cetera, et cetera. But he's
Speaker 1: just so compelling to watch and he's so fun to watch.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean, we need Speak to win more,
Speaker 1: We need Speak to contend in majors. That that would
Speaker 1: be a big deal. But as you said, it just
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he's his game's quite there. So I
Speaker 1: was absolutely route for him to get it done. And
Speaker 1: I mean he played beautifully for you know, the first
Speaker 1: ten or eleven, twelve holes, but then it just it
Speaker 1: just went sideways and we, you know, we should definitely
Speaker 1: acknowledge the winner of the tournament, Kurt Kita Yama, as
Speaker 1: as Paul Eisinger kept saying on TV, he had about
Speaker 1: seven different pronunciations get a yamah. He was just really
Speaker 1: going in on it. I don't know what Zinger was doing,
Speaker 1: but it generated some conversation. But Kurt gets Yama is
Speaker 1: one of those guys who you know as a great
Speaker 1: living he's been in the top fifty. He could never
Speaker 1: get it across the line. And as he has a
Speaker 1: new caddy on his bag, Tim Tucker, who somehow survived
Speaker 1: the Bryson experiment, so you know he's got some some
Speaker 1: fortitude and great to see him get it done, especially
Speaker 1: with that weird triple bogie on the ninth hole. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, justin ray or someone else's research, how many
Speaker 1: tour winners have made a triple bogie in the final
Speaker 1: round in recent years, but it can't be many. So
Speaker 1: that big time performance by him, and it's always fun
Speaker 1: to see a guy win for the first time. And
Speaker 1: you know, we use this term probably too often life changing,
Speaker 1: but this is a life changing win for him, not
Speaker 1: only a tour winner, but elevated status. He's got the exemption,
Speaker 1: he's going to be in all the all the majors,
Speaker 1: He's going to make it to the Tour Championship probably,
Speaker 1: like this is the right year in golf to have
Speaker 1: a breakthrough, and he just had a major breakthrough to
Speaker 1: make a two on seventeen is astonishing because I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm standing at the back of the team. I'm
Speaker 1: thinking maybe my best three would could reach, you know,
Speaker 1: and to to make you know they're hitting I don't know,
Speaker 1: a middle iron and make it a put. Uh that
Speaker 1: it's big time golf when when you're fighting that triple
Speaker 1: bogie for the rest of the day, you know you're
Speaker 1: going to fight it. You're in the last group, you
Speaker 1: got a caddy who knows what it's like to you
Speaker 1: see a guy step up and hit big time shots
Speaker 1: and big time situations. So it's a little tiny degree.
Speaker 1: You're probably trying to play for the caddy a little bit,
Speaker 1: not too much, but it is part of it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's neat and you know, it's a great statement about
Speaker 1: full field golf with the cut. And let's just talk
Speaker 1: about the cut for a second on because that's been
Speaker 1: in the news a lot. Well, let's just start with
Speaker 1: your feeling about alan You've You've been to live golf
Speaker 1: probably more than any other report except for maybe Bob
Speaker 1: harrick Um, what's your feeling about the difference between tournament
Speaker 1: golf with them without a cut? And I guess we
Speaker 1: got to bring in the WJC events into that conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love how primal the cut is. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just such a throwback, Like you get to the you
Speaker 1: get to the course on Monday and you're grinding and
Speaker 1: you're practicing, and you've you're you're you're paying your hotel
Speaker 1: and your food and your and all the bills and
Speaker 1: your caddy, and you know you can you can just
Speaker 1: hear the cash register ring in the background. You make
Speaker 1: one or two mistakes and you're done. You're gone, you're
Speaker 1: down the road. You don't get a dollar in the
Speaker 1: of course that's sort of kind of changed this year
Speaker 1: with all the players getting a stipend on the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: but still that that feeling of you're living on the
Speaker 1: edge and okay, Roy mcloy misses a cut. It's it's irritating,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't affect them. But you've got rookies or
Speaker 1: you've got guys who are just trying to hang on.
Speaker 1: There is there used to be financial pressure to make
Speaker 1: the cut, and um there's there's still the emotional um
Speaker 1: component to it. I mean, it's the ultimate rejection. It's
Speaker 1: like you are eye filing a story and the editor
Speaker 1: saying that's not good enough to print, you know, like
Speaker 1: it does. It's a blow to the selfless team. And
Speaker 1: also especially if you're a young player, you're someone trying
Speaker 1: to generate entom, you're trying to work on something in
Speaker 1: your game, Like you're denied two tournament rounds. It has
Speaker 1: an effect. You miss a few cuts in a row,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you're just not getting the
Speaker 1: reps you need. And so I like how old school
Speaker 1: the cut is, you know, as an entertainment product, it
Speaker 1: makes no sense because and you know, Roy talked about this,
Speaker 1: Phil Michelson's talked about this for years. If you're if
Speaker 1: you're a kid in Orlando and your favorite player is um,
Speaker 1: you know, pick a guy who who was down the
Speaker 1: road on Friday afternoon and you can't get out of
Speaker 1: school and you come on Saturday and you're so excited
Speaker 1: to see this person play, and they miss the cut,
Speaker 1: they're not there, Like that's a real letdown for the fans.
Speaker 1: It makes no sense from a TV standpoint or for
Speaker 1: the sponsors. You want your big name players guaranteed on
Speaker 1: the weekend and most people are watching golf, and you know,
Speaker 1: if if, if, if these guys missed the cut it
Speaker 1: if it's a negative for the tournament in every possible way.
Speaker 1: So I understand the reasoning why they've done away with it,
Speaker 1: But um, I feel like something essential has kind of
Speaker 1: been lost and it's a throwback to a different era
Speaker 1: and in today's soft modern society. Maybe maybe the cut
Speaker 1: is anachronism, and that's why I liked it, But I
Speaker 1: also understand why it's gone or going the way of
Speaker 1: the the Edsel. You know why Rory McElroy and Philim
Speaker 1: Mickelson made that argument because they're Rory McElroy and phil Mickelson.
Speaker 1: In other words, they're not worried. They're not worried about
Speaker 1: that kid in school. They just want to know if
Speaker 1: they have a bad Friday, they can still play on
Speaker 1: the weekend. I don't buy that argument, not in the
Speaker 1: not one slightest bit. There is something to be said
Speaker 1: for a tradition and I and I'm not saying tradition
Speaker 1: like golf in sports and white don't evolve, because of
Speaker 1: course they do. But the cut is a fundamental thing.
Speaker 1: And I mean kaJama could have easily, of course missed
Speaker 1: this week's cut. Jim Herman, who's a buddy of mine
Speaker 1: made the cut on the number at Honda, had a
Speaker 1: great weekend. I think top fifteen for sure, made a check.
Speaker 1: You know, he's playing for a pension, he's playing to
Speaker 1: keep status. Tiger Woods has said repeatedly that you know,
Speaker 1: of all the Mani records he has, his cut streak
Speaker 1: is the record that he's proud esso because he means
Speaker 1: he never ever ever mailed it in on a Friday
Speaker 1: after a bad Thursday. It's the cut is tremendously democratizing. Now,
Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson, Rory mclroy here, they might actually agree on something.
Speaker 1: They might say, well, the cut is years in the
Speaker 1: making or two years or one year, or you know
Speaker 1: whatever in the making, because that's how we got in
Speaker 1: this position to be in this eighty man field in
Speaker 1: the first place. But it's not really true. The cut
Speaker 1: is democratizing because you have enough skill to get into
Speaker 1: this field of let's call it one forty four, and
Speaker 1: even if it goes down to one twenty five, you know,
Speaker 1: look for Arnold's tournament or or Tigers or Jack's. Everybody
Speaker 1: starts Thursday on the same level, whether you're whether you're
Speaker 1: Kirk or to your Roy McElroy or Harris ingish or
Speaker 1: or or Patrick Cantley. And that is a tremendous thrill.
Speaker 1: If that kid is gonna miss school, if that kid's
Speaker 1: not gonna make it till the weekend, he should skip
Speaker 1: school and get on his bike and uh and forge
Speaker 1: a note. I mean, come on, and man, I don't
Speaker 1: buy any of that. That is orshit. You're you just
Speaker 1: you're describing a Norman Rockwell painting. I mean, come on, Michael,
Speaker 1: like you know, Colin Morrikawa missed the cut. He's now
Speaker 1: a Netflix star. People would have loved to have watched
Speaker 1: him on Saturday and Sunday. I mean, the coin is
Speaker 1: a Netflix star. Alan, you're around golf. When does anybody
Speaker 1: ever stop you at a cocktail party and say do
Speaker 1: you tell me about that? Call In Marikawa? Well, okay,
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, Deci Mataya, I'm a biggest
Speaker 1: star on an entire continent. He missed the cut, that's true.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that the TV ratings plummeted in Japan for
Speaker 1: the bay Hill Classic on Saturday and Sunday. Like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just saying that dudelay. Okay, Well, Michael
Speaker 1: has become the play better troll. I love it. I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm not fully defending this, this new version of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour, but I think it's a nod to market
Speaker 1: forces and Alan. Name name me a w g SC event.
Speaker 1: Is that what they called WJC World called j W
Speaker 1: Name me one, not counting like Tiger Firestone or some
Speaker 1: weirdness or Adam Scott. A Firestone would be a better example.
Speaker 1: Namee one. You can do any play by play and
Speaker 1: remember anything resembling a motion by Sunday evening. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: wc's were mostly a dub, There's no doubt. And I
Speaker 1: mean on some level the cut is humane because if
Speaker 1: you're if you're a great player and you're in bad form,
Speaker 1: do you want to have to slog it out on
Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday when you're twenty shots back? I mean, um,
Speaker 1: you're gonna see the give a Ship meter on at
Speaker 1: some of these events for these guys where you know,
Speaker 1: when they when they played bad, they used to have
Speaker 1: in the weekend off and so but you know, just
Speaker 1: to make sure all the listeners are with us here.
Speaker 1: There was a big news break early in the week
Speaker 1: at bay Hill because Jay Monahan had a player's only
Speaker 1: meeting on Tuesday night, and they talked about what it's
Speaker 1: been a huge question, what are the designated slash elevated
Speaker 1: events gonna look like in twenty four. Twenty three was
Speaker 1: always gonna be this transitional year that this everything was
Speaker 1: done on the fly, came out of the Delaware secret meeting.
Speaker 1: The tour just kind of had the center had to
Speaker 1: hold for twenty and twenty three while they sorted everything out.
Speaker 1: And so they've announced for twenty four that they're going
Speaker 1: to be all these designated events are gonna be no cut,
Speaker 1: feel to be very small, seventy to eighty players and
Speaker 1: that's it. And it's very much like a World Golf Championship,
Speaker 1: which is a franchise that has basically died. Of course,
Speaker 1: you can't talk about this without acknowledging that this is
Speaker 1: the liv golf model, small field, no cut, guaranteed money.
Speaker 1: And you know, MIKEA and I have both made the point,
Speaker 1: I think previously that the best argument that the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour had in this battle for the soul of golf
Speaker 1: was that we are pure competition and those guys are
Speaker 1: just getting paid and it's more of an exhibition and
Speaker 1: certainly losing the cut. That eliminates a lot of that discussion.
Speaker 1: Now week to week, the other thirty plus events on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour are going to be full field and
Speaker 1: they're gonna have a thirty six soul cut. So there's
Speaker 1: still going to be that old model, but the biggest, now,
Speaker 1: the most important, the most scrutinized events have definitely gone
Speaker 1: down the Live road in at least in appearance. Now.
Speaker 1: I did a podcast of Pira Malnadi and other players
Speaker 1: have talked about it's different because Live truly is a
Speaker 1: closed shop. These guys are guaranteed to be on there
Speaker 1: for the whole year. They're the same forty eight players
Speaker 1: are gonna play in every tournament. Whereas they've built into
Speaker 1: this tour model, there's going to be churned and there's
Speaker 1: gonna be ways to play your way into the elevated events.
Speaker 1: So if you're you know, a Kurt kita Yama and
Speaker 1: you get on a heater early in the year, you
Speaker 1: can play your way into the field. It's not totally
Speaker 1: closed shot, but we'll have to see how that plays
Speaker 1: out in actuality. You know, Malnadi talked about thousands of
Speaker 1: computer models and looked like maybe up to a third
Speaker 1: of the of the field would turn over year to year,
Speaker 1: but that's an open question and how it's going to
Speaker 1: play out in real life. So there's differences, but they're subtle,
Speaker 1: and I think from an appearance standpoint, the tour took
Speaker 1: a step backwards year by by getting away from its roots.
Speaker 1: And I know you agree with that, Michael, I do,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to dismiss because I'm not at
Speaker 1: all the value of having the best players on the
Speaker 1: PJ Tour in the same field more often than they
Speaker 1: were in the Phil and Tiger era because that was
Speaker 1: not working where it did work in Jack and Arnie's day.
Speaker 1: So something had to give, something had to change. And
Speaker 1: even though it's such a hockey lousy phrase, but this
Speaker 1: elevat event but having some big money, you know, distinguishing
Speaker 1: between Tiger's event, Jack's event, Arnold's event, the Four Majors,
Speaker 1: the players, some other historic events, and somehow creating an
Speaker 1: atmosphere or heyday where it's going to be irresistible for
Speaker 1: the best players to be there. Well, that's how Greg
Speaker 1: Norman came to the United States in the first place.
Speaker 1: That's why he savvy experimental playing the United States was
Speaker 1: the best players, the best courses, and the and the
Speaker 1: best pay days. Um. But once you go down that
Speaker 1: road and then you start tinkering with the fundamental value
Speaker 1: of what golf is, which is, you know, fair competition
Speaker 1: for everybody in the field, then I think you've gone
Speaker 1: too far. And I'm not pretending to understand it. But
Speaker 1: you know, with all due respect to Peter and you
Speaker 1: know in the in the outstanding interview you did with him, Um,
Speaker 1: if you need all these computer models to figure out
Speaker 1: what your sport is in the first place, that's not
Speaker 1: a good sign. Because Michael Jordan played the same game
Speaker 1: as Bob Kuzy, you know, yeah, minor changes, but not
Speaker 1: really really, and they're both legends for all time. And
Speaker 1: if you if you've made the basket nine five or
Speaker 1: made the ball smaller, you'd have a different game. These
Speaker 1: are institutions and our life, these sports that we love,
Speaker 1: our institutions in our life, and they have to be
Speaker 1: tinkered with very gently. And this isn't gentle. Well that's
Speaker 1: well said. I mean it speaks to a larger thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny how Phil just provided a roadmap
Speaker 1: for all this and that freighted phone call I had
Speaker 1: with him, because you know, one of the things he
Speaker 1: went on and on about was the imbalance in the
Speaker 1: governance on tour in that the stars drive the whole
Speaker 1: product and they need to be catered to. But there's
Speaker 1: a vast number of quote unquote journeyman's last middle class
Speaker 1: tour players and they have all the votes, and so
Speaker 1: the stars really couldn't get any couldn't make any structural
Speaker 1: change anything went up for a vote. The default is
Speaker 1: always gonna be more playing opportunities, more trickled down for
Speaker 1: the guys who are just trying to keep their card
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And what we've really seen here
Speaker 1: is the top players are completely hijack the tour and
Speaker 1: they're making all the decisions for themselves. And you can
Speaker 1: argue that's a good thing. They you know, people were
Speaker 1: tuning in to watch Jordan Spieth and Rory McElroy, you
Speaker 1: know they were. They probably weren't tuning in to watch
Speaker 1: Kurt kid Yama, even though he put on a hell
Speaker 1: of a show. And so it's okay. I mean, you
Speaker 1: see it in basketball, where now the top players are
Speaker 1: basically de facto gms and they're picking their own teams.
Speaker 1: That you see it in the college sports now where
Speaker 1: the nil money gives gives these kids so much more power.
Speaker 1: It's just an evolution where the bureaucracy is losing out
Speaker 1: to the star players. It may not be a good
Speaker 1: thing or a bad thing. It's hard, you can you
Speaker 1: can go back and forth on that, but it's just
Speaker 1: a thing. It's just a reality. And so and this
Speaker 1: is not new. I mean, there's Nicholas and Palmer who
Speaker 1: invented the modern PG tour in nineteen sixty eight with
Speaker 1: their rebellion. You know, Jack came back for seconds in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three and tried to get Dean Beamon fired
Speaker 1: kind of backfired on him. But like the top players
Speaker 1: have always wanted to have more say and more control,
Speaker 1: and of course they're going to shape things that are
Speaker 1: beneficial for them. But it just finally has happened in golf.
Speaker 1: And you know Roy McElroy Tiger Woods, like they seem
Speaker 1: to be acting in the best interests of the tour
Speaker 1: they're asked, they're also acting in their self interests. They're
Speaker 1: making a ton of money in different ways. They've they've
Speaker 1: created their own breakaway league and um that's a competitor
Speaker 1: in some ways for eyeballs with with the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: but they have the tours blessing because they have to
Speaker 1: keep top players happy, and so it's a it's just
Speaker 1: an interesting moment in the sport where where the power
Speaker 1: structure is shifted and it's not about the commissioner, and
Speaker 1: it's not about the guys who are fifty to one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty on the money list like it's it's
Speaker 1: about the top stars and they have they have reshaped
Speaker 1: the whole tour into in their own image, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna see how it plays out. I mean, if if
Speaker 1: they turn it into it a bad product and the
Speaker 1: fans's interests, then that's going to affect their own their
Speaker 1: own livelihoods. But in the short term, they're getting what
Speaker 1: they want. Alan, as somebody one said, you've got the
Speaker 1: best words. But if it were twelve golfers, would you
Speaker 1: say that's too few? Twelve golfers per tournament? I'm just curious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course you say that's two if you okay, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: that'd be boring. All right, okay, all right, let me
Speaker 1: ask you this. How often does Justin Thomas's name just
Speaker 1: come into your mind idly over the course of the day,
Speaker 1: or call Americawa or Matt Fitzpatrick or Victor Hoblin or
Speaker 1: Jason Day. I don't even know who Bradley is on
Speaker 1: this leaderboard. There's a number of them. In other words,
Speaker 1: these players that you speak of as stars, they're not stars.
Speaker 1: They're just really good at golf. And the reason we're
Speaker 1: drawn to them at all is because they're beating big
Speaker 1: fields of other guys. All of them are really good
Speaker 1: at golf. The difference between Harris English and Rory McElroy
Speaker 1: is in line and four times out of ten Harris
Speaker 1: English actually can beat Rory McIlroy. And we're looking to
Speaker 1: see what's going to happen on the on the margins
Speaker 1: us a phrase a friend of mine muss, Yeah, that's well,
Speaker 1: says I mean, that's that's tournament golf, and that's the
Speaker 1: competitive impulse that made us drawn to this game in
Speaker 1: the first place. And when you really start to examine
Speaker 1: what the Phil Nicholson's and Rory mcroys, it's hilarious that
Speaker 1: we're talking about them in the same breath, given how
Speaker 1: different they are. It's really about making more money and
Speaker 1: James James Han excuse me, not James conn. James Han
Speaker 1: said this beautifully in an interview with Golf Week, I think,
Speaker 1: just last week, and I agree with every word that
Speaker 1: he said. And and I understand, I understand the value
Speaker 1: of true star power. Even Big Jack himself didn't have
Speaker 1: star power, he had greatness power. Even now Tiger is
Speaker 1: a special case. Really he's hard to classify Arnold of
Speaker 1: course at star power. Hogan didn't have star power, he
Speaker 1: had greatness power. So I and you, you achieve you,
Speaker 1: we really can find out who's great by beating everybody.
Speaker 1: You know, when Ted Williams at four h six he
Speaker 1: beat the whole league in hitting. It wasn't just like
Speaker 1: he had one picture's number. He had everybody's number. And
Speaker 1: that's what made it such a monumental feet to bet
Speaker 1: over four hundred. So I just feel like I understand
Speaker 1: they want to get more top players in the field,
Speaker 1: but I think they're overdoing it. Actually, well that's another
Speaker 1: subject for you. If you want me to segue here,
Speaker 1: Oh go ahead, no floors. I'm enjoying the passion. Keep
Speaker 1: no finish no no no no no no no no no.
Speaker 1: You finish your one thought, and then I got something
Speaker 1: that no one a marshal alan, you and I have
Speaker 1: a lot of experience in this. These marshals, God bless them,
Speaker 1: are the most boring conversationalists in the world. Today. I
Speaker 1: talked to a marshal who is unbelievably attuned to golf
Speaker 1: and had an observation that I never consider that I'm
Speaker 1: goal layout on your hair in a minute. But you
Speaker 1: finished that one thought about competitiveness, and that will move
Speaker 1: on here. The suspense is killing me. Well, all I
Speaker 1: was going to say is, ironically, the World Golf Ranking,
Speaker 1: which of course is under siege right now, agrees with
Speaker 1: your assessment. I mean they the whole formula has been
Speaker 1: recast to favor full fields under the premise that it's
Speaker 1: harder to beat one hundred and fifty five guys than
Speaker 1: it is to beat seventy nine or sixty nine guys,
Speaker 1: no matter who they are. Like, this has been baked
Speaker 1: into the math, and so that's what's ironic is these
Speaker 1: these small, little elevated events are going to get less
Speaker 1: World Ranking points than they could have because the World
Speaker 1: Ranking has put its official stamp of approval on the
Speaker 1: concept that beating a lot of players is harder than
Speaker 1: beating a smaller number your respective of where they might
Speaker 1: ran in the ranking. So anyway, let's hear about this, Marshal.
Speaker 1: You have my full attention. The Marshal said to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: this course is seventy yards is way too short? Augusta
Speaker 1: National and seventy what is the Augustin National? Yeah, a
Speaker 1: little more, way too short? Okay, like a joke compared
Speaker 1: to what you know what they played with a bloat
Speaker 1: the ball in a wooden club. Any fantasy that Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholas or anybody else might have had about the ball
Speaker 1: being rolled back, This is straight from the marshall. I
Speaker 1: wish I had the guy's name. The chance of that
Speaker 1: happening now with the emergence of live golf is zero
Speaker 1: point zero because live golf, of course, is you know, golf,
Speaker 1: but louder music, shotgun that whole thing. Also the power game.
Speaker 1: Brooks kept good, Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson, everybody else who
Speaker 1: can bombit, bombit, bombit. And if the PJ Tour of
Speaker 1: the USA said, oh, we want a smaller ball, we
Speaker 1: want a shorter course, we want this, it would get
Speaker 1: laughed out of existence, even though it would be better
Speaker 1: for golf every way to Sunday afternoon, to have shorter
Speaker 1: golf courses with shorter walks, more shot making and all
Speaker 1: the rest. It will never happen because of the saudis
Speaker 1: inredible ability to use the word of the moment just
Speaker 1: erupt and they have been very effective. I agree with
Speaker 1: the what the Marshall said, I'd never thought about and
Speaker 1: I agree that Alan. Tell me your take on the
Speaker 1: Marshall's insight. This is the wildest thing about this moment
Speaker 1: in golf. Mohammed and bid Salon is affecting Jordan speeds
Speaker 1: club selection on the par four's at bay Hill. But
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, I said, I don't know four
Speaker 1: or five years ago that to really test the tour players,
Speaker 1: of course has to be ten thousand yards, and everyone
Speaker 1: was so mad about it. But it's just true. If
Speaker 1: you want guys to have to hit long irons into
Speaker 1: par fours and some part threes and have a few
Speaker 1: three shot par fives, I mean, is nothing that's driver
Speaker 1: wedge and um. But yeah, you're you're absolutely right. I mean,
Speaker 1: the live would just they would just if the USGA did,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they They're in that business. And
Speaker 1: I think it's Mike Want's personality, but they've sort of
Speaker 1: been lumbering towards this idea of bifurcation, at least on
Speaker 1: the pro level, and and Want has signaled his support.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if you'd do it unilaterally,
Speaker 1: but you know, live Golf would just be like a
Speaker 1: local rule. We're keeping the old equipment. And and you're right,
Speaker 1: people want to watch Dustin Johnson drive it three sixty.
Speaker 1: They want to watch them drive it, you know, two
Speaker 1: eighty and so, um, I hadn't thought of it in
Speaker 1: those terms. I think your Marshall might be a genius
Speaker 1: and we should get them on the podcast. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a factor. I mean, I'm embarrassed I didn't
Speaker 1: get a saying but that was a good insight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's even I mean, I if you really want
Speaker 1: to go have a dark, chilling thought, I like the
Speaker 1: is the where twenty three? Or they gonna start dictating
Speaker 1: course conditions? Are they are they gonna tell the super
Speaker 1: at Bay Hill? You know what, it's not fun to
Speaker 1: play under these conditions, Like what are the greens Man
Speaker 1: cut the rough? Like you're making us look bad and
Speaker 1: because they hold all the cards and that you know,
Speaker 1: the whole tours now catering to these guys. Is that
Speaker 1: going to happen? I don't know, but you can see it.
Speaker 1: I mean if if they're trying to make golf more
Speaker 1: fun and more accessible and and uh, you know like
Speaker 1: John ROMs, certainly he's he's limping out of here with
Speaker 1: his tail between his legs. And um, it's it's an
Speaker 1: interesting thought like how now the now the players have
Speaker 1: been given a taste of this power, how far are
Speaker 1: they going to go? Are they going to demand that
Speaker 1: the tour has his own set of rules? I mean, like, um,
Speaker 1: that internal out of bounds that almost cost Kurt Kitiyama
Speaker 1: this tournament? Like you know, maybe that next year that's
Speaker 1: going to get redone because Patrick Cantley is going to
Speaker 1: throw a fit about it, and you know in some
Speaker 1: some meeting, Like I don't, I don't know where this
Speaker 1: is going. It's fascinating to think when when all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you let the let the players have too
Speaker 1: much power. We'll see how it plays out. There could
Speaker 1: be a whole trickle down. But I think I think
Speaker 1: that Marshal's onto something. Yeah, I think the churning point
Speaker 1: for me and recognizing that the power structure had changed
Speaker 1: was really Oakmont. Was that twenty sixteen when when Dustin
Speaker 1: Johnson went to Oakmont and there was everybody's side with
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson and nobody sided with the USA. It was
Speaker 1: one hundred percent in favor of Dustin Johnson. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: you got screwed. And the USGA Brensi No, Actually, our
Speaker 1: job is to administer the game as best we can,
Speaker 1: and it was a confusing situation and we had to
Speaker 1: find out what was right. Nobody cared about that. Everyone
Speaker 1: cared about Yeah, man, Dustin Johnson, you got screwed when
Speaker 1: the fact is that ball moved under his watch, right.
Speaker 1: And what was interesting about that situation was it happened
Speaker 1: in real time because players who had finished early or
Speaker 1: had missed the cut, because the cut matters, they were
Speaker 1: tweeting it at the USGA as it was all playing out. Well,
Speaker 1: Dustin was on the fourteenth hole or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: They helped shape the debate in real time, and so
Speaker 1: that that was an interesting case study for sure. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's going to be interesting. I actually have a
Speaker 1: call on tomorrow or Tuesday with a tournament director of UM,
Speaker 1: a long time event on the PG tour, I can
Speaker 1: say no more than that because he doesn't I had
Speaker 1: to agree to certain rules because he doesn't want to
Speaker 1: and he's fears retribution. But he's extremely upset about the
Speaker 1: way the tour has restructured itself because his event is
Speaker 1: never going to be elevated and he's now looking at
Speaker 1: a future. Yeah, it's bleak, even if, even if, even if,
Speaker 1: if he got twenty five million, they wouldn't elevate. You see,
Speaker 1: I think in this same age where money absolutely rules,
Speaker 1: if this guy could come up with twenty five million,
Speaker 1: it would be elevated without knowing us. I don't even
Speaker 1: know if maybe I mean this person is. It's where
Speaker 1: the tournament falls on the schedule as it relates to
Speaker 1: other events that will be elevated. Something would have to
Speaker 1: really change. And the current sponsor is basically maxed out
Speaker 1: now and there's no way they're to find another ten
Speaker 1: million dollars like they were already questioning the commitment about
Speaker 1: it does make fun? Does this pencil out for us anyway?
Speaker 1: And you double the price like you're right, anything's possible,
Speaker 1: and the tour is going to try and move the
Speaker 1: elevated events around just to make people happy. Like I'm
Speaker 1: excited because they're Pebble is going to be elevated next year,
Speaker 1: and that has not officially been announced, but everyone locally
Speaker 1: kind of knows that to be the case, and other
Speaker 1: players has whispered about it. But that's going to be
Speaker 1: cool to finally get a great field that Pebble beats.
Speaker 1: And you know, they're probably going to drop the amateurs
Speaker 1: after thirty six holes. They're only going to play two
Speaker 1: courses instead of three. I mean, the entire charm and
Speaker 1: structure and history of that tournament is going to sort
Speaker 1: of be discarded. But it's just the new world order.
Speaker 1: If you want, if you want to get all the
Speaker 1: top players, then you got to play ball. And again,
Speaker 1: the players have the power. They don't they don't want
Speaker 1: to play with amateurs. They don't want to have to
Speaker 1: learn a third course like okay, fine, guys, whatever it
Speaker 1: takes to get you here. And so it's I'll be
Speaker 1: curious to talk in more detail with this tournament director.
Speaker 1: I've already interviewed a few. They're very scuttish about going
Speaker 1: on the record, but they definitely they fear for the
Speaker 1: future of the tour be because you're still you now
Speaker 1: have thirty events that are going to struggle to get anybody.
Speaker 1: And Peter Malnati, I love Peter Malnati, He's a gent
Speaker 1: I think he made some good points, but he was
Speaker 1: basically saying, well, you've got this middle tier guys they're
Speaker 1: going to carry the tour now because they have to
Speaker 1: play a lot to try and get the elevated. And
Speaker 1: you know, he sided Gary Woodland and and Frankie Molinari,
Speaker 1: who I know you love, and Billy Horssel, like those
Speaker 1: were his examples, like this is gonna be great for
Speaker 1: the tour because they're gonna play John Deer, They're gonna
Speaker 1: play these other events because they're not the elevators, but
Speaker 1: they want to get there. And if you're pinning your
Speaker 1: entire business model on Francesco Mallnari and Gary Woodland and
Speaker 1: Billy Horssel, that's a tough sell for these sponsors. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're not going to get the stars. Um that
Speaker 1: that middle that middle tier I don't think is enough
Speaker 1: to really and bring the sponsors back. So we're heading
Speaker 1: into a whole new era on the tour and there's
Speaker 1: going to be it's great eight weeks a year when
Speaker 1: when these guys are playing, and it's obviously been it's
Speaker 1: been fun. I mean you went from from Cappelua to
Speaker 1: Phoenix to Riviera to Bay Hill like it's been bang
Speaker 1: bang bang, and these have all been fun events. And
Speaker 1: the question is what's going to happen in the weeks
Speaker 1: in between and how much contraction is they're going to
Speaker 1: be And Adam Scott said it to me at Cappelui's
Speaker 1: like the market's going to decide. It's that simple, like
Speaker 1: we're gonna see the sponsors are gonna leave. We know
Speaker 1: that how many what what's gonna What's what's going to
Speaker 1: happen week to week? Like those are the unknowns. He's like,
Speaker 1: the these like top guys are getting what they want,
Speaker 1: but what's that gonna mean for the whole tour. It's
Speaker 1: it's an open question and that's just been that's been
Speaker 1: codified now and it's gonna be fascinating to watch the
Speaker 1: play out. I'm as interested in anybody else because we
Speaker 1: don't know. I think you're more interested in the most
Speaker 1: alan if you were at the if you were at them,
Speaker 1: if you were at the Players Championship. In Commissioner Jay
Speaker 1: Monahans Tuesday press conference, you have just one chance to
Speaker 1: ask him a question in a public forum, which I
Speaker 1: know is not your thing or mine. Um bo, would
Speaker 1: you ask him? I will say, as I've you know,
Speaker 1: I've talked about this. I think people know I'm writing
Speaker 1: a book about this, the Live versus the tour and
Speaker 1: all the subplots, and I've learned so much, and I've
Speaker 1: tunneled so deep, and a lot of people have told
Speaker 1: me a lot of things are not public knowledge. My
Speaker 1: analysis of Monahan's performance has been elevated. You know, he
Speaker 1: did some things in the background that turned out to
Speaker 1: be quite effective. And even though his response was seemed
Speaker 1: a little flat footed, you look at the players they've
Speaker 1: held on too. I mean, I don't think if you
Speaker 1: if you maybe my question, Actually this might be my
Speaker 1: question from Monahan. If there was a draft and you
Speaker 1: could pick any players you want off of Live and
Speaker 1: bring them back to the tour, no harm, no foul,
Speaker 1: who would you want And he would probably only say
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson. I'm not sure that too many of the
Speaker 1: other guys are missed, and they're maybe Cam Smith because
Speaker 1: he's he's such a transcendent talent. But to your earlier point,
Speaker 1: he's not really a star. I mean, he could walk
Speaker 1: around at the mall here in Monterey and no one
Speaker 1: would know who he is. And he's kind of an introvert.
Speaker 1: I mean, he doesn't give you much in the interviews,
Speaker 1: and he's not dashingly handsome, like like an Adam Scott
Speaker 1: like who I'm not sure that that Monahan would want
Speaker 1: too many of those guys back in any scenario other
Speaker 1: than Dustin. And so, you know, the tours held on
Speaker 1: to this core of really nice guys, you know, the Rory's,
Speaker 1: the Maxihamas, the John Rams like these are gents and
Speaker 1: they're great players, and now they're getting them together. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think. I think for all the
Speaker 1: all the battering that Monahan has taken and all the
Speaker 1: thoughts that he's got to go to salvage the situation,
Speaker 1: I feel like in some ways he's prevailed. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's got more buying from his stars than he's ever had.
Speaker 1: They're getting they're getting more money in their pocket. The
Speaker 1: tour schedule had gotten so bloated that it needed some contraction.
Speaker 1: It was sort of forced upon him. But it's going
Speaker 1: to happen and probably make the overall mechanics work better.
Speaker 1: The players are on board for, you know, more innovation
Speaker 1: in the telecast, with the on course interviews and other things,
Speaker 1: like the players kind of realize, all right, we're in
Speaker 1: an existential battle here and we've got to give something back.
Speaker 1: And so i'd have to think about my question to Monahan,
Speaker 1: but I like that one, like who would you want back?
Speaker 1: And I think it'd be a short lists, and so, um,
Speaker 1: you know, Monahan's weathered the storm and the tour has
Speaker 1: been reshaped, not fully of under his own making, but
Speaker 1: it's a grand experiment. We're gonna see what happens. But
Speaker 1: his top players have never been happier. And the second
Speaker 1: tier tournament directors can grumble all they want, but you know,
Speaker 1: those those events were not the ones that drive the tour.
Speaker 1: They're just not. And so that that's been made very plain.
Speaker 1: And there's a dar wining and component to this. But um,
Speaker 1: if if the tour loses six or eight tournaments, they
Speaker 1: still have a full schedule. There's still a lot of
Speaker 1: playing opportunities, and um, it's just all about the stars now.
Speaker 1: And the stars are happy and and they they're they
Speaker 1: bought into the system, and that's just how they're plowing ahead.
Speaker 1: What would your question being, I think that is extreme,
Speaker 1: you know, Alan, I think that is a really insightful answer,
Speaker 1: because not only has Monahan whether the storm is really
Speaker 1: and he has because he still has the but even
Speaker 1: more sign the PGA Tour Undermonahan's leadership really has whether
Speaker 1: you like it or not, whether you're you're on board
Speaker 1: with every little thing that's happened or a big thing
Speaker 1: that has happened or not. The PGA Tour could have
Speaker 1: caved and could have died, not die. That would be
Speaker 1: too strong. It could look totally different, and it doesn't.
Speaker 1: And that required a lot of skill. Now to Phil
Speaker 1: Michelson's point, it also required a lot of money, and
Speaker 1: they had a lot of money. Who knows where these
Speaker 1: cookie jars who are sitting and what out of the
Speaker 1: blue they seem to have come up. What's the number, Alan, Well, well,
Speaker 1: north of one hundred million dollars for twenty three right,
Speaker 1: what is that? You know? I think it's one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty three million dollars, you know, So that was
Speaker 1: a big help. But they had to make a lot
Speaker 1: of very a very good place, and so they have.
Speaker 1: You know, they they're gonna get through twenty three and
Speaker 1: they're probably gonna get three twenty four. Long term, long term,
Speaker 1: the pha jur will just look different if it really
Speaker 1: goes down on this road, I think when it's all
Speaker 1: said and done, just to speak of three iconic players
Speaker 1: with iconic or semi iconic events, Nicholas's tournament memorial, Tigers, Rivieria,
Speaker 1: the Arna Palmer inputational here at bay Hill, they will
Speaker 1: look weird without full fields. And does a full field
Speaker 1: have to be one forty four? No? You know, the
Speaker 1: Master's sort of shows that. But there is a grandeur
Speaker 1: to the US Open and the British Open that the
Speaker 1: Masters does not have because of because because of the
Speaker 1: size of the field. Yeah, I think it's true. I
Speaker 1: mean I don't know he you know, Monahan. I don't
Speaker 1: know if Monahan would answer your question, who would you
Speaker 1: actually want, even though I think Dustin Johnson would be
Speaker 1: the answer, because I think Tiger is telling people everybody
Speaker 1: we lost is somebody I don't want to hang out with,
Speaker 1: except for Dustin Johnson, you know, Charlie Howell, maybe Hendrik
Speaker 1: Stenson maybe, but I'll say this about Charlie Howell's whin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Charlie Charlie Howell's win, and we love Charlie Howe.
Speaker 1: We've been around Charlie Howell and he's a great talker
Speaker 1: and there's you know, he's got a great spirit about him.
Speaker 1: He's been a terrific ambassador for what the PGA too
Speaker 1: represented for a long time. But his win had zero
Speaker 1: impact personally on me. But really, I'm except for his
Speaker 1: bank account, you know, what did that wind actually matter?
Speaker 1: So then you know, it's just like some meaningless movie
Speaker 1: that you see on a Saturday night that you're never
Speaker 1: going to think about again. I mean, that's well said.
Speaker 1: At the same time, it's like, I don't know, is
Speaker 1: it we'll see Is Kurt Kittiyama's win going to register
Speaker 1: in the sports landscape? Is it gonna change professional golf?
Speaker 1: Like I think one of the things that Live Golf
Speaker 1: made plane is that week to week the players are businessmen.
Speaker 1: They are trying to maximize their opportunities. They're trying to
Speaker 1: win as much money as they can, and they're not
Speaker 1: as romantic about it. Like you know, Phil's grandfather carried
Speaker 1: at Pebble Beach. He's won the clam Bake five times.
Speaker 1: He goes to dinner parties all week long. He's the
Speaker 1: toast of the town. It's hard to imagine that Phil
Speaker 1: just renounced the Crosby clam Bake. But I don't think
Speaker 1: he misses it. It's just like he was there, he
Speaker 1: did his thing. He always played with the CEO to
Speaker 1: try it further his endorsement deals, and now he's gone.
Speaker 1: Like I think, I think for Charles Howe, if you
Speaker 1: whether you win and live Myacoba or you win at
Speaker 1: the Honda Classic, I think it feels the same to
Speaker 1: him in a lot of ways. The majors are the differentiators.
Speaker 1: Maybe a couple of tournaments that you have some romantic attachment.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants to win Rivere because it's a great course
Speaker 1: and because Tiger's the host. But that didn't mean much
Speaker 1: to you know, uh Nieman. He was like, you didn't
Speaker 1: even come back and defend you know, the players, the
Speaker 1: Fifth Major, the Crown Jewel, the PJ Tar camp Smith's
Speaker 1: not gonna be their next week. You don't care. Like
Speaker 1: I think that we overrate the sentimentality. These guys are
Speaker 1: the definition of professional golfer, someone who plays golf for money,
Speaker 1: and that's what these guys are. And I had an
Speaker 1: agent tell me last year it was a great quote
Speaker 1: which you have to understand what every professional golfer is.
Speaker 1: They're a whore. And it was a little harsh, but
Speaker 1: that was that was a legit sentiment. So I think
Speaker 1: you and I what does that make the agent? What
Speaker 1: does that make the agents? He's the pimp um obviously,
Speaker 1: And but you and I are prone to um, to
Speaker 1: sentiment and to romance and to poetry. But for these guys,
Speaker 1: it's a business. And I think that's what live Golf
Speaker 1: has made obvious and um and and everything that's followed.
Speaker 1: You have to look through that lens. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of a drag for for you and I who want
Speaker 1: to who want to wax nostalgic. But the players are
Speaker 1: getting what they want, which is more money. That's what
Speaker 1: they want. It's not about the nostalgia for them. So UM,
Speaker 1: I think when you, when you look at it in
Speaker 1: those terms, it all makes more sense, even though it's saddened.
Speaker 1: I guess you'll be looking, you know, view the way
Speaker 1: given what you just said. And I don't disagree with
Speaker 1: any of it. Um careers will be shorter and uh,
Speaker 1: because you'll you'll make your you'll make big money over
Speaker 1: a short amount of time and then you'll play your
Speaker 1: way off of the Live Tour, you'll play your way
Speaker 1: out of the top eighty on the PGA Tour, and
Speaker 1: you'll have made enough money and you're not gonna want
Speaker 1: to go start playing you know, the smaller colonial type
Speaker 1: events whence you had a taste of the of the
Speaker 1: elevated events and the long long JA has kind of career,
Speaker 1: it'll be over and uh, and that'll be that'll be
Speaker 1: to me, it'll be a shame too. But maybe I'm
Speaker 1: just revealing my attachment to the game that I grew
Speaker 1: up on, which I'm never gonna appod to because I
Speaker 1: love that game. Yeah, we don't want you to apologize.
Speaker 1: And you know there's there's still a place for the
Speaker 1: for the the surprise winners. I mean we saw it
Speaker 1: at Bay Hill, like I know that you have an
Speaker 1: affection for for the the golfers who have the powerful
Speaker 1: lower bodies, the John rams a savory packs, you know,
Speaker 1: with these tree trunk legs, and they just like power
Speaker 1: through the golf swing. And we should we shoul acknowledge
Speaker 1: that Kurt Kadiyama has one of the all time great nicknames,
Speaker 1: which is quad Zilla because his quads are so thick,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, it was fun to see him
Speaker 1: get it done and it really did change his life.
Speaker 1: And as much as that term has been thrown around
Speaker 1: in golf, like he's this is the year for a break,
Speaker 1: but he's got a job for two years. That's cool. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: so there's there's still room for romance, but um, it's
Speaker 1: become more of a business and that's just that's just
Speaker 1: how it is. Okay, I'm just gonna we probably shot
Speaker 1: the subject for today anyway, But I just want to
Speaker 1: take option to one thing. And I have the highest
Speaker 1: regard for Adam Scott, But when Adam Scott is describing
Speaker 1: to you this business model that will work, I don't
Speaker 1: agree that because I think the business model, if you're
Speaker 1: going to use that phrase for this whole thing and
Speaker 1: isn't really a business even in the in the first
Speaker 1: case it just sort of turns out to be business.
Speaker 1: Is the fact that people love to play golf and
Speaker 1: therefore love to see the people who do at best
Speaker 1: play at the highest level and that's why Colin marcawar
Speaker 1: to degree has any public position at all is because
Speaker 1: he plays. It's not because of his haird or his
Speaker 1: zeek or you know, good with reporters. It's his golf skill. Period.
Speaker 1: That's what we're drawn to. That's what drives this whole train.
Speaker 1: And just like it drives Major League Baseball, everybody's playing
Speaker 1: baseball as a kid, just as it's driven the NBA basketball,
Speaker 1: skiing and all the rest of When you've got a
Speaker 1: support with a huge, massive participation population and then they
Speaker 1: get to watch the best of the best do it,
Speaker 1: it's really neat. And if it's one level lower like
Speaker 1: Corn Ferry, or one layer lower belower like JC Goosey
Speaker 1: used to be many levels lower, it's not the same thing.
Speaker 1: You want to watch the best of the best. That
Speaker 1: is really quote the business model, and it's not a
Speaker 1: business model at all. It's just human nature. I want
Speaker 1: to say, the best do their thing. Yeah, well, well said,
Speaker 1: I think we have exhausted this topic. But it's a
Speaker 1: fascinating one. And you know, I didn't know we're gonna
Speaker 1: go down this road. But that's that's the fun thing
Speaker 1: about these podcasts. We just go where the where the
Speaker 1: muse takes us. But m Michael, I'm glad you're at
Speaker 1: Bay Hill. I can't wait to read your story about
Speaker 1: George Speith and all the hijinks on Sunday. Then you know,
Speaker 1: we have we have a big event next week, Players Championship.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna be weird that camps and it's
Speaker 1: not there. They probably won't be mentioned once on NBC
Speaker 1: or Golf Channel that the defending champion has renounced the tournament,
Speaker 1: which is supposed to be, you know, the fifth major.
Speaker 1: But you can set aside those scenes. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: a lot of great players on an iconic golf course
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be fun, and you and I will
Speaker 1: be two new Yeah. I mean, let's talk about where
Speaker 1: we really are in the golf season, because this has been,
Speaker 1: you know, the case now for a few years. March, April, May, June, July.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not saying the Players is at the
Speaker 1: same level as US Open, in the British Open, because
Speaker 1: it's not. But the Players is a great event, and
Speaker 1: and of course the four Majors, and then you take
Speaker 1: a month off and then the Ryder Cup. You know,
Speaker 1: this is the core of the golf season. We're playing
Speaker 1: and we're watching, and so if you like golf, it's
Speaker 1: a great time to be alive. I love that, well
Speaker 1: said Michael. Um, and I love the enthusiasms you bring
Speaker 1: to it and that despite the market forces, Uh, you
Speaker 1: still you still are romantic at heart, and we salute you. Uh.
Speaker 1: This has been another and want to I want to
Speaker 1: make a plug for a PGA tour entertainment. Can I
Speaker 1: make a plug here for appreciate to our entertainment? Please? Why?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sitting in their seat and they
Speaker 1: haven't kicked me out, So thank you. There you go. Um,
Speaker 1: I'd like to make a plug for the Classic Wood
Speaker 1: and Golf Tea by Maximoma. I wish I loved anything
Speaker 1: you play golf. I wish I love anything in this
Speaker 1: world as much as Michael loves a good golf tea.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really charming. But anyway, thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: For those of you out there, we appreciate your fidelity
Speaker 1: and we'll be back in your ear soon. So for
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger, this is Alan Schipnak. That was a fire
Speaker 1: drill and now we're done. Idig play the wind made
Speaker 1: a fortune. Within my ship game, I ran a table,
Speaker 1: never thought I could fall, then win hit me like
Speaker 1: a cannon and ball, And now I can't shake this
Speaker 1: losing the stream. Every road I take is a dead
Speaker 1: end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get
Speaker 1: them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: I got thoughts in my head. I can't get them out,
Speaker 1: trying not to think what I'm thinking about.