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Speaker 1: These are institutions in our life. Alan, these sports that

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Speaker 1: we love, our institutions in our life, and they have

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Speaker 1: to be tinkered with very gently. And this isn't gentle.

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Speaker 1: I got thoughts in my head. Can't get them, John,

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Speaker 1: nothing what I'm thinking about the gown. Thoughts in my head.

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Speaker 1: Can't get them. Now, Jo think what I'm thinking about. Hello,

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Speaker 1: this is Alan chep Nuck back for another fire drill.

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Speaker 1: I am delighted to be joined by my frequent wingman,

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Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger. This is a throwback to about two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fifteen when Michael and I first started podcasting together.

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Speaker 1: We were not quite early adapters, but there weren't a

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Speaker 1: lot of folks doing podcasts back then. It's not that

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Speaker 1: the crowded landscape it has become in the golf space.

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Speaker 1: So this is fun. We should We should tip our

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Speaker 1: cap to our departed colleague Ryan French, who is part

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Speaker 1: of these the Sunday night fire drills for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Ryan's left the collective to pursue some other opportunities, which

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Speaker 1: we're all rooting for him. We all love Ryan, a

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Speaker 1: great human being, fun colleague. We'll miss his random digressions

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Speaker 1: about players none of us have ever heard of. He

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Speaker 1: definitely added an institutional knowledge to these conversations that is

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Speaker 1: hard to replicate. Michael, you want you wanna send a

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Speaker 1: oral bouquet of flowers to Ryan? Yes, very very much. So.

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Speaker 1: Ryan's become a good friend in in a short amount

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Speaker 1: of time. He absolutely has a heart of gold. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He absolutely roots for the underclass. The people that he

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Speaker 1: covers is Monday que Info, twitter Feed, like my friend

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Speaker 1: Mike Donald, the former PHA tour player. He has a

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Speaker 1: natural reporting ability. He has an immense curiosity, He wants

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Speaker 1: what's going on. He reduces things to a very basic level.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and he's a great friend and a great colleague.

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Speaker 1: And and maybe we'll still have him back from on

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Speaker 1: this podcast from time to time because I know how

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Speaker 1: much he enjoyed it, and we both know alan how

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Speaker 1: much he added to it. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, as

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Speaker 1: I told Ryan a bunch of times that the doors

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Speaker 1: always open, you know, there's always a microphone available if

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Speaker 1: he wants to jump back on this pod. We'll see

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Speaker 1: how it all shakes out. It's definitely a transitional time

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Speaker 1: for all of us. But anyway, just just a typic

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Speaker 1: cap to the Ryan and to Ryan because we missed

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Speaker 1: that guy so well. Speak of other colleagues, our colleague

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Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvy, with whom Allan and I've done a long

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Speaker 1: series of Need a Fourth podcasts played in the Puerto

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Speaker 1: Rico tournament this week and I think et eleven, I

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Speaker 1: know he played very well. Yeah, it's so nice to

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Speaker 1: see Jeff back between the ropes and I can sense,

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Speaker 1: just for in our conversation he's got he's getting some

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Speaker 1: of that competitive fireback. And you know, he kind of

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Speaker 1: took a couple of years of where he didn't play

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Speaker 1: much competitive golf and he moved his family to Australia

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Speaker 1: and they went through their own big transition and golf

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Speaker 1: was became kind of secondary. But that kind of talent,

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Speaker 1: that kind of imagination, that love for the game that

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Speaker 1: never goes away. So if you can just get tournament sharp,

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Speaker 1: it'll be really fun to see if if Jeff can

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Speaker 1: get on a little run here and now you are.

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Speaker 1: People may be wondering, are you in a NASA, you know, headquarters,

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Speaker 1: what's going on back there? You're actually in the press

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Speaker 1: room at Bay Hill. Tell us about the scene there, Michael,

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Speaker 1: I'm only ninety miles from Cape Kernaville, So you're not

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Speaker 1: too far off. I have a neat memento from today's tournament. This,

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Speaker 1: Hey Luise, how are you? This is a you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been amazed over the years to watch like Phil.

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Speaker 1: Phil will take the cruttiest little nib of a t

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Speaker 1: and use it on a part three. This is the

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Speaker 1: tea that Maxifoma used and just guarded after one time

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Speaker 1: use on a part of three year in the bay

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Speaker 1: Hill course. It is one of the most elegant twos

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. It's got a it's got a sturdy stem,

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Speaker 1: good point, very cuppy and so anyway, yes, so I'm

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Speaker 1: here at the bay Hill Tournament. I'm here in the

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Speaker 1: president the winners being interviewed. He's wearing his red sweater.

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Speaker 1: And it was a wild tournament here and kind of

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Speaker 1: a great reminder really of what just a I won't

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Speaker 1: call it an ordinary PGA Tour event, but Arnold Palmer Invitational.

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Speaker 1: The Arnold Palmer was never like an elite event. It

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Speaker 1: was just Arnie's event. Now of course that I'll have

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Speaker 1: a quote elevated status. But I was only here a

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Speaker 1: couple of days. But from from what I was here

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Speaker 1: it was just like a lot of people having a

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Speaker 1: good time. Great weather, great field, flat, easy walking golf

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Speaker 1: course and an exciting tournament. You know, kind of just

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Speaker 1: what the BJA Tour is all about. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Tigers knack for winning that tournament and the rapport he

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Speaker 1: always had with Arnie certainly elevated it. I would say,

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Speaker 1: pre and post Tiger, it lost some luster and clearly

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Speaker 1: with mister Palmer no longer there to serve as a

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Speaker 1: master of ceremonies, it's it's it's been lacking. But the

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Speaker 1: field this year was immense because of the elevated slash

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Speaker 1: designated status, and it was fun. I mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of star power on the leaderboard. You know,

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Speaker 1: John rom they were going to just give him the

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Speaker 1: trophy on Thursday after he shot an incredible first round,

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Speaker 1: but he kind of lost his mind out there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've come to like bay Hill. The course itself doesn't

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Speaker 1: do much for me, but it's basically like the second

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Speaker 1: US Open of the year, or it's the first one.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like a precursor because they set it

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Speaker 1: up so challenging with brick hard greens and long, rough

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Speaker 1: and skinny fairways. It seems like they always have a

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Speaker 1: lot of front flags. On Sunday, you got hit over

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Speaker 1: the water, but the green is as hard as a rock,

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Speaker 1: and the ball just skips to the back bunker or

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Speaker 1: into the roff and then you've got these crazy up

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Speaker 1: and downs or two puts, and it's really a war

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Speaker 1: of attrition. And you know Maxima, who's been one of

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Speaker 1: the two or three hottest players in the world, he

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Speaker 1: went backwards today in a big way. Rom was never

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Speaker 1: seen again after Thursday. Like this course gets in the

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Speaker 1: head of some really great players. And uh and you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously you were out there watching Jordan's speed. I mean,

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Speaker 1: fourteen through seventeen he missed. He missed four puts in

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Speaker 1: a row that were quite short, and that was really

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Speaker 1: what kept him out out of the winner's circle. What

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Speaker 1: are your impressions of Jordan? And just just this war

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Speaker 1: of attrition out there. It really is like a US

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Speaker 1: open course because the roof is so penal and the

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Speaker 1: fairways are so firm and fast. I never I've been

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Speaker 1: coming here for a lot of years, I never saw

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Speaker 1: so many guys play irons off of par four teas

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Speaker 1: or hybrids off the par fives that I did this week,

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Speaker 1: because they're so afraid of driving it through the fairway

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Speaker 1: and into the rough and some of those, some of

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Speaker 1: those rough wise can be really gnarly, almost chip out,

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Speaker 1: pitch out, not definitely not go for it, especially with

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Speaker 1: you know, all the lakes they have in this golf course.

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Speaker 1: So it was neat. It was neat to see. And

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Speaker 1: I believe that appauses for Rhyan French and it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a short golf course even though it might be

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Speaker 1: seventy four hundred yards on the card, but as firm

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Speaker 1: as they have it and as and as long as

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Speaker 1: the ball runs with these with these hooded irons, so

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Speaker 1: it does sort of play almost like a Churchill Us

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Speaker 1: Open course. And it was sort of a war of attrition.

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Speaker 1: Speech should have won this thing by three shots. He

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Speaker 1: also used to put on twelve that was three and

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Speaker 1: a half feet. You know, he put it very poorly,

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Speaker 1: no matter what he says. He you know, he has

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Speaker 1: those stretches where he can't help. He seems like he's

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Speaker 1: more likely to make a twenty footer than he has

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Speaker 1: a six footer. Like he just I think it's his

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Speaker 1: overall jumpiness where it just he gets mental. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: know whether to look at the whole or look at

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Speaker 1: the ball. And he's a little bit like Mickelson, who

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Speaker 1: sometimes and like Fred Couples before him, where these these

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Speaker 1: immense talents, but sometimes it just feels like they lose

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Speaker 1: their feel for the short puts, and it's part of

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Speaker 1: what's stressful. I mean, like he was chipping in, he

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Speaker 1: was hitting, he was hitting some great iron shots, but

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Speaker 1: if he was just like a cat on a hot,

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Speaker 1: hot tin roof out there on the greens, and it's

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Speaker 1: like no hole is ever over With Jordan. We know

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Speaker 1: that both good and bad. And it was a little

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Speaker 1: dispiriting because I thought that Tita Greene he played really

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Speaker 1: well and it seems like his game is in good

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Speaker 1: working order. Now that we're in you know, bay Hill

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Speaker 1: to me is kind of like the run up that's

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Speaker 1: you've already We've already been in Florida for a while,

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Speaker 1: but somehow Bay Hill is like now it's a sprint

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Speaker 1: to Augusta. And so I guess I'm encouraged by the

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Speaker 1: way that Jordan hit the ball and navigated the course

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Speaker 1: and kept seemed like he kept as cool until the back.

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Speaker 1: Then on Sunday. Then he went completely mental and so

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it. Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: your impressions of just how he handled it emotionally, the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. And by the way, you know, speaking of

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Speaker 1: major winners, Rory McElroy, Kenny hasn't one of major bays

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Speaker 1: right there, Shuffler Hatton hasn't, but you know he's right there.

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Speaker 1: I mean Jason day Hoblin not a major winner of Fitzpatrick.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you really had it. Really is a classic

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Speaker 1: case of a good hard golf course with the cream

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Speaker 1: rising in the cup, but weirdness ensuing too, which is

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Speaker 1: which is you know, the ultimate beauty of seventy two

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Speaker 1: whole stroke play golf with a big field period. Jordan

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Speaker 1: just not look I love Jordan, You love Jordan. He

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Speaker 1: does not look ready for prime time to me. He

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Speaker 1: looks really unsure with the driver. He pitches the ball

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Speaker 1: like an absolute demon. I mean, he pitches it beautifully,

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Speaker 1: and if he lag puts beautifully, some of them go

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Speaker 1: in the hall and then you know what he's gonna

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Speaker 1: do from four feet So how are you going to

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Speaker 1: play augusta National under those conditions? And how are you

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Speaker 1: going to play oh kill for the PHA Championship. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't conditions. But and this has been the case for

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Speaker 1: a while now, he is making incremental improvements and um,

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Speaker 1: he's not the player he was five years ago, which

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Speaker 1: is weird, but he's but he's better than the player

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Speaker 1: he was three years ago, that's for sure. It's funny

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Speaker 1: how we talk about in Jordan, Like, you know, we

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Speaker 1: all seez on the moral victories and the little kernels

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Speaker 1: of good news. Oh, he pitched it great this week,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like I mean, the guy's already a Hall

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Speaker 1: of Famer. He had one of the greatest seasons in

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Speaker 1: golf history. Um, but he's there's that fragility there that

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Speaker 1: makes him so compelling. And to be a fan of

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Speaker 1: Speeth and I think we're all a fan of Speeth

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Speaker 1: on some level, it's maddening. And I mean it's certainly

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Speaker 1: the game's way more interesting when he's playing well, but

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Speaker 1: it's also, uh, he can he can give you an ulcer.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the fun of following Jordan. What was

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Speaker 1: it like for you watch hant Home. Did you find

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Speaker 1: yourself rooting? I know you root for the story, We

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Speaker 1: root for the story, but who are you actually rooting

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Speaker 1: for Oh Jordan absolutely because he is I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: he's the best story. Like if if Jordan could go

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Speaker 1: out another run and get back to where close to

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Speaker 1: where he was. I mean, he he galvanizes golf Twitter

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Speaker 1: in a way that almost no other player does, and

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Speaker 1: he's just such an appealing person. He's a great ambassador

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Speaker 1: for the for golf, et cetera, et cetera. But he's

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Speaker 1: just so compelling to watch and he's so fun to watch.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean, we need Speak to win more,

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Speaker 1: We need Speak to contend in majors. That that would

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Speaker 1: be a big deal. But as you said, it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he's his game's quite there. So I

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Speaker 1: was absolutely route for him to get it done. And

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Speaker 1: I mean he played beautifully for you know, the first

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Speaker 1: ten or eleven, twelve holes, but then it just it

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Speaker 1: just went sideways and we, you know, we should definitely

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Speaker 1: acknowledge the winner of the tournament, Kurt Kita Yama, as

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Speaker 1: as Paul Eisinger kept saying on TV, he had about

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Speaker 1: seven different pronunciations get a yamah. He was just really

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Speaker 1: going in on it. I don't know what Zinger was doing,

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Speaker 1: but it generated some conversation. But Kurt gets Yama is

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Speaker 1: one of those guys who you know as a great

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Speaker 1: living he's been in the top fifty. He could never

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Speaker 1: get it across the line. And as he has a

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Speaker 1: new caddy on his bag, Tim Tucker, who somehow survived

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Speaker 1: the Bryson experiment, so you know he's got some some

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Speaker 1: fortitude and great to see him get it done, especially

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Speaker 1: with that weird triple bogie on the ninth hole. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, justin ray or someone else's research, how many

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Speaker 1: tour winners have made a triple bogie in the final

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Speaker 1: round in recent years, but it can't be many. So

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Speaker 1: that big time performance by him, and it's always fun

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Speaker 1: to see a guy win for the first time. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we use this term probably too often life changing,

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Speaker 1: but this is a life changing win for him, not

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Speaker 1: only a tour winner, but elevated status. He's got the exemption,

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Speaker 1: he's going to be in all the all the majors,

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Speaker 1: He's going to make it to the Tour Championship probably,

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Speaker 1: like this is the right year in golf to have

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Speaker 1: a breakthrough, and he just had a major breakthrough to

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Speaker 1: make a two on seventeen is astonishing because I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm standing at the back of the team. I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking maybe my best three would could reach, you know,

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Speaker 1: and to to make you know they're hitting I don't know,

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Speaker 1: a middle iron and make it a put. Uh that

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Speaker 1: it's big time golf when when you're fighting that triple

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Speaker 1: bogie for the rest of the day, you know you're

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Speaker 1: going to fight it. You're in the last group, you

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Speaker 1: got a caddy who knows what it's like to you

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Speaker 1: see a guy step up and hit big time shots

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Speaker 1: and big time situations. So it's a little tiny degree.

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Speaker 1: You're probably trying to play for the caddy a little bit,

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Speaker 1: not too much, but it is part of it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's neat and you know, it's a great statement about

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Speaker 1: full field golf with the cut. And let's just talk

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Speaker 1: about the cut for a second on because that's been

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Speaker 1: in the news a lot. Well, let's just start with

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Speaker 1: your feeling about alan You've You've been to live golf

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Speaker 1: probably more than any other report except for maybe Bob

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Speaker 1: harrick Um, what's your feeling about the difference between tournament

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Speaker 1: golf with them without a cut? And I guess we

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Speaker 1: got to bring in the WJC events into that conversation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love how primal the cut is. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: just such a throwback, Like you get to the you

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Speaker 1: get to the course on Monday and you're grinding and

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Speaker 1: you're practicing, and you've you're you're you're paying your hotel

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Speaker 1: and your food and your and all the bills and

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Speaker 1: your caddy, and you know you can you can just

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Speaker 1: hear the cash register ring in the background. You make

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Speaker 1: one or two mistakes and you're done. You're gone, you're

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Speaker 1: down the road. You don't get a dollar in the

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Speaker 1: of course that's sort of kind of changed this year

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Speaker 1: with all the players getting a stipend on the PGA Tour,

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Speaker 1: but still that that feeling of you're living on the

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Speaker 1: edge and okay, Roy mcloy misses a cut. It's it's irritating,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't affect them. But you've got rookies or

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Speaker 1: you've got guys who are just trying to hang on.

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Speaker 1: There is there used to be financial pressure to make

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Speaker 1: the cut, and um there's there's still the emotional um

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Speaker 1: component to it. I mean, it's the ultimate rejection. It's

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Speaker 1: like you are eye filing a story and the editor

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Speaker 1: saying that's not good enough to print, you know, like

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Speaker 1: it does. It's a blow to the selfless team. And

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Speaker 1: also especially if you're a young player, you're someone trying

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Speaker 1: to generate entom, you're trying to work on something in

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Speaker 1: your game, Like you're denied two tournament rounds. It has

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Speaker 1: an effect. You miss a few cuts in a row,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you're just not getting the

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Speaker 1: reps you need. And so I like how old school

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Speaker 1: the cut is, you know, as an entertainment product, it

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Speaker 1: makes no sense because and you know, Roy talked about this,

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Speaker 1: Phil Michelson's talked about this for years. If you're if

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Speaker 1: you're a kid in Orlando and your favorite player is um,

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Speaker 1: you know, pick a guy who who was down the

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Speaker 1: road on Friday afternoon and you can't get out of

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Speaker 1: school and you come on Saturday and you're so excited

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Speaker 1: to see this person play, and they miss the cut,

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Speaker 1: they're not there, Like that's a real letdown for the fans.

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Speaker 1: It makes no sense from a TV standpoint or for

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Speaker 1: the sponsors. You want your big name players guaranteed on

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Speaker 1: the weekend and most people are watching golf, and you know,

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Speaker 1: if if, if, if these guys missed the cut it

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Speaker 1: if it's a negative for the tournament in every possible way.

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Speaker 1: So I understand the reasoning why they've done away with it,

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Speaker 1: But um, I feel like something essential has kind of

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Speaker 1: been lost and it's a throwback to a different era

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Speaker 1: and in today's soft modern society. Maybe maybe the cut

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Speaker 1: is anachronism, and that's why I liked it, But I

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Speaker 1: also understand why it's gone or going the way of

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Speaker 1: the the Edsel. You know why Rory McElroy and Philim

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Speaker 1: Mickelson made that argument because they're Rory McElroy and phil Mickelson.

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Speaker 1: In other words, they're not worried. They're not worried about

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Speaker 1: that kid in school. They just want to know if

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Speaker 1: they have a bad Friday, they can still play on

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Speaker 1: the weekend. I don't buy that argument, not in the

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Speaker 1: not one slightest bit. There is something to be said

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Speaker 1: for a tradition and I and I'm not saying tradition

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Speaker 1: like golf in sports and white don't evolve, because of

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Speaker 1: course they do. But the cut is a fundamental thing.

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Speaker 1: And I mean kaJama could have easily, of course missed

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Speaker 1: this week's cut. Jim Herman, who's a buddy of mine

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Speaker 1: made the cut on the number at Honda, had a

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Speaker 1: great weekend. I think top fifteen for sure, made a check.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's playing for a pension, he's playing to

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Speaker 1: keep status. Tiger Woods has said repeatedly that you know,

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Speaker 1: of all the Mani records he has, his cut streak

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Speaker 1: is the record that he's proud esso because he means

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Speaker 1: he never ever ever mailed it in on a Friday

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Speaker 1: after a bad Thursday. It's the cut is tremendously democratizing. Now,

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Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson, Rory mclroy here, they might actually agree on something.

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Speaker 1: They might say, well, the cut is years in the

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Speaker 1: making or two years or one year, or you know

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Speaker 1: whatever in the making, because that's how we got in

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Speaker 1: this position to be in this eighty man field in

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Speaker 1: the first place. But it's not really true. The cut

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Speaker 1: is democratizing because you have enough skill to get into

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Speaker 1: this field of let's call it one forty four, and

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Speaker 1: even if it goes down to one twenty five, you know,

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00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 1: look for Arnold's tournament or or Tigers or Jack's. Everybody

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Speaker 1: starts Thursday on the same level, whether you're whether you're

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Speaker 1: Kirk or to your Roy McElroy or Harris ingish or

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Speaker 1: or or Patrick Cantley. And that is a tremendous thrill.

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Speaker 1: If that kid is gonna miss school, if that kid's

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Speaker 1: not gonna make it till the weekend, he should skip

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Speaker 1: school and get on his bike and uh and forge

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Speaker 1: a note. I mean, come on, and man, I don't

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Speaker 1: buy any of that. That is orshit. You're you just

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Speaker 1: you're describing a Norman Rockwell painting. I mean, come on, Michael,

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Speaker 1: like you know, Colin Morrikawa missed the cut. He's now

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Speaker 1: a Netflix star. People would have loved to have watched

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Speaker 1: him on Saturday and Sunday. I mean, the coin is

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Speaker 1: a Netflix star. Alan, you're around golf. When does anybody

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Speaker 1: ever stop you at a cocktail party and say do

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Speaker 1: you tell me about that? Call In Marikawa? Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, Deci Mataya, I'm a biggest

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Speaker 1: star on an entire continent. He missed the cut, that's true.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that the TV ratings plummeted in Japan for

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Speaker 1: the bay Hill Classic on Saturday and Sunday. Like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just saying that dudelay. Okay, Well, Michael

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Speaker 1: has become the play better troll. I love it. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm not fully defending this, this new version of the

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Speaker 1: PGA Tour, but I think it's a nod to market

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Speaker 1: forces and Alan. Name name me a w g SC event.

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Speaker 1: Is that what they called WJC World called j W

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Speaker 1: Name me one, not counting like Tiger Firestone or some

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Speaker 1: weirdness or Adam Scott. A Firestone would be a better example.

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Speaker 1: Namee one. You can do any play by play and

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Speaker 1: remember anything resembling a motion by Sunday evening. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: wc's were mostly a dub, There's no doubt. And I

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Speaker 1: mean on some level the cut is humane because if

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Speaker 1: you're if you're a great player and you're in bad form,

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Speaker 1: do you want to have to slog it out on

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Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday when you're twenty shots back? I mean, um,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see the give a Ship meter on at

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Speaker 1: some of these events for these guys where you know,

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Speaker 1: when they when they played bad, they used to have

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Speaker 1: in the weekend off and so but you know, just

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Speaker 1: to make sure all the listeners are with us here.

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Speaker 1: There was a big news break early in the week

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Speaker 1: at bay Hill because Jay Monahan had a player's only

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Speaker 1: meeting on Tuesday night, and they talked about what it's

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Speaker 1: been a huge question, what are the designated slash elevated

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Speaker 1: events gonna look like in twenty four. Twenty three was

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Speaker 1: always gonna be this transitional year that this everything was

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Speaker 1: done on the fly, came out of the Delaware secret meeting.

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Speaker 1: The tour just kind of had the center had to

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Speaker 1: hold for twenty and twenty three while they sorted everything out.

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Speaker 1: And so they've announced for twenty four that they're going

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Speaker 1: to be all these designated events are gonna be no cut,

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Speaker 1: feel to be very small, seventy to eighty players and

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Speaker 1: that's it. And it's very much like a World Golf Championship,

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Speaker 1: which is a franchise that has basically died. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you can't talk about this without acknowledging that this is

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Speaker 1: the liv golf model, small field, no cut, guaranteed money.

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Speaker 1: And you know, MIKEA and I have both made the point,

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Speaker 1: I think previously that the best argument that the PGA

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Speaker 1: Tour had in this battle for the soul of golf

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Speaker 1: was that we are pure competition and those guys are

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Speaker 1: just getting paid and it's more of an exhibition and

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Speaker 1: certainly losing the cut. That eliminates a lot of that discussion.

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Speaker 1: Now week to week, the other thirty plus events on

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Speaker 1: the PGA Tour are going to be full field and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have a thirty six soul cut. So there's

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Speaker 1: still going to be that old model, but the biggest, now,

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Speaker 1: the most important, the most scrutinized events have definitely gone

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Speaker 1: down the Live road in at least in appearance. Now.

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Speaker 1: I did a podcast of Pira Malnadi and other players

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00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: have talked about it's different because Live truly is a

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Speaker 1: closed shop. These guys are guaranteed to be on there

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Speaker 1: for the whole year. They're the same forty eight players

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00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 1: are gonna play in every tournament. Whereas they've built into

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Speaker 1: this tour model, there's going to be churned and there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be ways to play your way into the elevated events.

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Speaker 1: So if you're you know, a Kurt kita Yama and

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Speaker 1: you get on a heater early in the year, you

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00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: can play your way into the field. It's not totally

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Speaker 1: closed shot, but we'll have to see how that plays

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Speaker 1: out in actuality. You know, Malnadi talked about thousands of

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Speaker 1: computer models and looked like maybe up to a third

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Speaker 1: of the of the field would turn over year to year,

425
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: but that's an open question and how it's going to

426
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: play out in real life. So there's differences, but they're subtle,

427
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: and I think from an appearance standpoint, the tour took

428
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: a step backwards year by by getting away from its roots.

429
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: And I know you agree with that, Michael, I do,

430
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 1: and I don't want to dismiss because I'm not at

431
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: all the value of having the best players on the

432
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 1: PJ Tour in the same field more often than they

433
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 1: were in the Phil and Tiger era because that was

434
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: not working where it did work in Jack and Arnie's day.

435
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: So something had to give, something had to change. And

436
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: even though it's such a hockey lousy phrase, but this

437
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: elevat event but having some big money, you know, distinguishing

438
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: between Tiger's event, Jack's event, Arnold's event, the Four Majors,

439
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: the players, some other historic events, and somehow creating an

440
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: atmosphere or heyday where it's going to be irresistible for

441
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: the best players to be there. Well, that's how Greg

442
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: Norman came to the United States in the first place.

443
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 1: That's why he savvy experimental playing the United States was

444
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: the best players, the best courses, and the and the

445
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: best pay days. Um. But once you go down that

446
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: road and then you start tinkering with the fundamental value

447
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: of what golf is, which is, you know, fair competition

448
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: for everybody in the field, then I think you've gone

449
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: too far. And I'm not pretending to understand it. But

450
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, with all due respect to Peter and you

451
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: know in the in the outstanding interview you did with him, Um,

452
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: if you need all these computer models to figure out

453
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: what your sport is in the first place, that's not

454
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: a good sign. Because Michael Jordan played the same game

455
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: as Bob Kuzy, you know, yeah, minor changes, but not

456
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: really really, and they're both legends for all time. And

457
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: if you if you've made the basket nine five or

458
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: made the ball smaller, you'd have a different game. These

459
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: are institutions and our life, these sports that we love,

460
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: our institutions in our life, and they have to be

461
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: tinkered with very gently. And this isn't gentle. Well that's

462
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: well said. I mean it speaks to a larger thing.

463
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny how Phil just provided a roadmap

464
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: for all this and that freighted phone call I had

465
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: with him, because you know, one of the things he

466
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: went on and on about was the imbalance in the

467
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: governance on tour in that the stars drive the whole

468
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: product and they need to be catered to. But there's

469
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: a vast number of quote unquote journeyman's last middle class

470
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: tour players and they have all the votes, and so

471
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: the stars really couldn't get any couldn't make any structural

472
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: change anything went up for a vote. The default is

473
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: always gonna be more playing opportunities, more trickled down for

474
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: the guys who are just trying to keep their card

475
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And what we've really seen here

476
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: is the top players are completely hijack the tour and

477
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: they're making all the decisions for themselves. And you can

478
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: argue that's a good thing. They you know, people were

479
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: tuning in to watch Jordan Spieth and Rory McElroy, you

480
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: know they were. They probably weren't tuning in to watch

481
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: Kurt kid Yama, even though he put on a hell

482
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: of a show. And so it's okay. I mean, you

483
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: see it in basketball, where now the top players are

484
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: basically de facto gms and they're picking their own teams.

485
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: That you see it in the college sports now where

486
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: the nil money gives gives these kids so much more power.

487
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: It's just an evolution where the bureaucracy is losing out

488
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: to the star players. It may not be a good

489
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: thing or a bad thing. It's hard, you can you

490
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: can go back and forth on that, but it's just

491
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: a thing. It's just a reality. And so and this

492
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 1: is not new. I mean, there's Nicholas and Palmer who

493
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: invented the modern PG tour in nineteen sixty eight with

494
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: their rebellion. You know, Jack came back for seconds in

495
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three and tried to get Dean Beamon fired

496
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: kind of backfired on him. But like the top players

497
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: have always wanted to have more say and more control,

498
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: and of course they're going to shape things that are

499
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: beneficial for them. But it just finally has happened in golf.

500
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: And you know Roy McElroy Tiger Woods, like they seem

501
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: to be acting in the best interests of the tour

502
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: they're asked, they're also acting in their self interests. They're

503
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: making a ton of money in different ways. They've they've

504
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: created their own breakaway league and um that's a competitor

505
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: in some ways for eyeballs with with the PGA Tour,

506
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: but they have the tours blessing because they have to

507
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: keep top players happy, and so it's a it's just

508
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: an interesting moment in the sport where where the power

509
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: structure is shifted and it's not about the commissioner, and

510
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: it's not about the guys who are fifty to one

511
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty on the money list like it's it's

512
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: about the top stars and they have they have reshaped

513
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: the whole tour into in their own image, and we're

514
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: gonna see how it plays out. I mean, if if

515
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: they turn it into it a bad product and the

516
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: fans's interests, then that's going to affect their own their

517
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: own livelihoods. But in the short term, they're getting what

518
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: they want. Alan, as somebody one said, you've got the

519
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: best words. But if it were twelve golfers, would you

520
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: say that's too few? Twelve golfers per tournament? I'm just curious. Yeah,

521
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: of course you say that's two if you okay, of course, yeah,

522
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: that'd be boring. All right, okay, all right, let me

523
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: ask you this. How often does Justin Thomas's name just

524
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: come into your mind idly over the course of the day,

525
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: or call Americawa or Matt Fitzpatrick or Victor Hoblin or

526
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: Jason Day. I don't even know who Bradley is on

527
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: this leaderboard. There's a number of them. In other words,

528
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: these players that you speak of as stars, they're not stars.

529
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: They're just really good at golf. And the reason we're

530
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: drawn to them at all is because they're beating big

531
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: fields of other guys. All of them are really good

532
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: at golf. The difference between Harris English and Rory McElroy

533
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: is in line and four times out of ten Harris

534
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: English actually can beat Rory McIlroy. And we're looking to

535
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: see what's going to happen on the on the margins

536
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: us a phrase a friend of mine muss, Yeah, that's well,

537
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: says I mean, that's that's tournament golf, and that's the

538
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: competitive impulse that made us drawn to this game in

539
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: the first place. And when you really start to examine

540
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: what the Phil Nicholson's and Rory mcroys, it's hilarious that

541
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about them in the same breath, given how

542
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: different they are. It's really about making more money and

543
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: James James Han excuse me, not James conn. James Han

544
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: said this beautifully in an interview with Golf Week, I think,

545
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: just last week, and I agree with every word that

546
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: he said. And and I understand, I understand the value

547
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: of true star power. Even Big Jack himself didn't have

548
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: star power, he had greatness power. Even now Tiger is

549
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: a special case. Really he's hard to classify Arnold of

550
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: course at star power. Hogan didn't have star power, he

551
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: had greatness power. So I and you, you achieve you,

552
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: we really can find out who's great by beating everybody.

553
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: You know, when Ted Williams at four h six he

554
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 1: beat the whole league in hitting. It wasn't just like

555
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: he had one picture's number. He had everybody's number. And

556
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: that's what made it such a monumental feet to bet

557
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: over four hundred. So I just feel like I understand

558
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: they want to get more top players in the field,

559
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: but I think they're overdoing it. Actually, well that's another

560
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: subject for you. If you want me to segue here,

561
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: Oh go ahead, no floors. I'm enjoying the passion. Keep

562
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: no finish no no no no no no no no no.

563
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: You finish your one thought, and then I got something

564
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: that no one a marshal alan, you and I have

565
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: a lot of experience in this. These marshals, God bless them,

566
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: are the most boring conversationalists in the world. Today. I

567
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: talked to a marshal who is unbelievably attuned to golf

568
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: and had an observation that I never consider that I'm

569
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: goal layout on your hair in a minute. But you

570
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: finished that one thought about competitiveness, and that will move

571
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: on here. The suspense is killing me. Well, all I

572
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: was going to say is, ironically, the World Golf Ranking,

573
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: which of course is under siege right now, agrees with

574
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: your assessment. I mean they the whole formula has been

575
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: recast to favor full fields under the premise that it's

576
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: harder to beat one hundred and fifty five guys than

577
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: it is to beat seventy nine or sixty nine guys,

578
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: no matter who they are. Like, this has been baked

579
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: into the math, and so that's what's ironic is these

580
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: these small, little elevated events are going to get less

581
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: World Ranking points than they could have because the World

582
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: Ranking has put its official stamp of approval on the

583
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: concept that beating a lot of players is harder than

584
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: beating a smaller number your respective of where they might

585
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: ran in the ranking. So anyway, let's hear about this, Marshal.

586
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: You have my full attention. The Marshal said to me, Okay,

587
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: this course is seventy yards is way too short? Augusta

588
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: National and seventy what is the Augustin National? Yeah, a

589
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: little more, way too short? Okay, like a joke compared

590
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: to what you know what they played with a bloat

591
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: the ball in a wooden club. Any fantasy that Jack

592
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: Nicholas or anybody else might have had about the ball

593
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: being rolled back, This is straight from the marshall. I

594
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: wish I had the guy's name. The chance of that

595
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: happening now with the emergence of live golf is zero

596
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: point zero because live golf, of course, is you know, golf,

597
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: but louder music, shotgun that whole thing. Also the power game.

598
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: Brooks kept good, Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson, everybody else who

599
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: can bombit, bombit, bombit. And if the PJ Tour of

600
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: the USA said, oh, we want a smaller ball, we

601
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: want a shorter course, we want this, it would get

602
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: laughed out of existence, even though it would be better

603
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: for golf every way to Sunday afternoon, to have shorter

604
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: golf courses with shorter walks, more shot making and all

605
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: the rest. It will never happen because of the saudis

606
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: inredible ability to use the word of the moment just

607
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: erupt and they have been very effective. I agree with

608
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: the what the Marshall said, I'd never thought about and

609
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: I agree that Alan. Tell me your take on the

610
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: Marshall's insight. This is the wildest thing about this moment

611
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: in golf. Mohammed and bid Salon is affecting Jordan speeds

612
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: club selection on the par four's at bay Hill. But

613
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, I said, I don't know four

614
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: or five years ago that to really test the tour players,

615
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: of course has to be ten thousand yards, and everyone

616
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: was so mad about it. But it's just true. If

617
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: you want guys to have to hit long irons into

618
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: par fours and some part threes and have a few

619
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: three shot par fives, I mean, is nothing that's driver

620
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: wedge and um. But yeah, you're you're absolutely right. I mean,

621
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: the live would just they would just if the USGA did,

622
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: and I don't think they They're in that business. And

623
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: I think it's Mike Want's personality, but they've sort of

624
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: been lumbering towards this idea of bifurcation, at least on

625
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: the pro level, and and Want has signaled his support.

626
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if you'd do it unilaterally,

627
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: but you know, live Golf would just be like a

628
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 1: local rule. We're keeping the old equipment. And and you're right,

629
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: people want to watch Dustin Johnson drive it three sixty.

630
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: They want to watch them drive it, you know, two

631
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: eighty and so, um, I hadn't thought of it in

632
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: those terms. I think your Marshall might be a genius

633
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: and we should get them on the podcast. But um, yeah,

634
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: that's that's a factor. I mean, I'm embarrassed I didn't

635
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: get a saying but that was a good insight. Yeah,

636
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: and it's even I mean, I if you really want

637
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: to go have a dark, chilling thought, I like the

638
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: is the where twenty three? Or they gonna start dictating

639
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: course conditions? Are they are they gonna tell the super

640
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: at Bay Hill? You know what, it's not fun to

641
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: play under these conditions, Like what are the greens Man

642
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: cut the rough? Like you're making us look bad and

643
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: because they hold all the cards and that you know,

644
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: the whole tours now catering to these guys. Is that

645
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: going to happen? I don't know, but you can see it.

646
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: I mean if if they're trying to make golf more

647
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: fun and more accessible and and uh, you know like

648
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: John ROMs, certainly he's he's limping out of here with

649
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: his tail between his legs. And um, it's it's an

650
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: interesting thought like how now the now the players have

651
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: been given a taste of this power, how far are

652
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: they going to go? Are they going to demand that

653
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: the tour has his own set of rules? I mean, like, um,

654
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: that internal out of bounds that almost cost Kurt Kitiyama

655
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: this tournament? Like you know, maybe that next year that's

656
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: going to get redone because Patrick Cantley is going to

657
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: throw a fit about it, and you know in some

658
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: some meeting, Like I don't, I don't know where this

659
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: is going. It's fascinating to think when when all of

660
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: a sudden you let the let the players have too

661
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: much power. We'll see how it plays out. There could

662
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: be a whole trickle down. But I think I think

663
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: that Marshal's onto something. Yeah, I think the churning point

664
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: for me and recognizing that the power structure had changed

665
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: was really Oakmont. Was that twenty sixteen when when Dustin

666
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: Johnson went to Oakmont and there was everybody's side with

667
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson and nobody sided with the USA. It was

668
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: one hundred percent in favor of Dustin Johnson. Yeah, man,

669
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: you got screwed. And the USGA Brensi No, Actually, our

670
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: job is to administer the game as best we can,

671
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: and it was a confusing situation and we had to

672
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: find out what was right. Nobody cared about that. Everyone

673
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: cared about Yeah, man, Dustin Johnson, you got screwed when

674
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: the fact is that ball moved under his watch, right.

675
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: And what was interesting about that situation was it happened

676
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: in real time because players who had finished early or

677
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: had missed the cut, because the cut matters, they were

678
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: tweeting it at the USGA as it was all playing out. Well,

679
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: Dustin was on the fourteenth hole or whatever it was.

680
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: They helped shape the debate in real time, and so

681
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: that that was an interesting case study for sure. But um, yeah,

682
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: it's it's going to be interesting. I actually have a

683
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: call on tomorrow or Tuesday with a tournament director of UM,

684
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: a long time event on the PG tour, I can

685
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: say no more than that because he doesn't I had

686
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: to agree to certain rules because he doesn't want to

687
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: and he's fears retribution. But he's extremely upset about the

688
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: way the tour has restructured itself because his event is

689
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: never going to be elevated and he's now looking at

690
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 1: a future. Yeah, it's bleak, even if, even if, even if,

691
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: if he got twenty five million, they wouldn't elevate. You see,

692
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: I think in this same age where money absolutely rules,

693
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: if this guy could come up with twenty five million,

694
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: it would be elevated without knowing us. I don't even

695
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: know if maybe I mean this person is. It's where

696
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: the tournament falls on the schedule as it relates to

697
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: other events that will be elevated. Something would have to

698
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: really change. And the current sponsor is basically maxed out

699
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: now and there's no way they're to find another ten

700
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: million dollars like they were already questioning the commitment about

701
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: it does make fun? Does this pencil out for us anyway?

702
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: And you double the price like you're right, anything's possible,

703
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: and the tour is going to try and move the

704
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: elevated events around just to make people happy. Like I'm

705
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 1: excited because they're Pebble is going to be elevated next year,

706
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: and that has not officially been announced, but everyone locally

707
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: kind of knows that to be the case, and other

708
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: players has whispered about it. But that's going to be

709
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: cool to finally get a great field that Pebble beats.

710
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: And you know, they're probably going to drop the amateurs

711
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: after thirty six holes. They're only going to play two

712
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: courses instead of three. I mean, the entire charm and

713
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 1: structure and history of that tournament is going to sort

714
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: of be discarded. But it's just the new world order.

715
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: If you want, if you want to get all the

716
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: top players, then you got to play ball. And again,

717
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: the players have the power. They don't they don't want

718
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: to play with amateurs. They don't want to have to

719
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: learn a third course like okay, fine, guys, whatever it

720
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: takes to get you here. And so it's I'll be

721
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: curious to talk in more detail with this tournament director.

722
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: I've already interviewed a few. They're very scuttish about going

723
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: on the record, but they definitely they fear for the

724
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: future of the tour be because you're still you now

725
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: have thirty events that are going to struggle to get anybody.

726
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: And Peter Malnati, I love Peter Malnati, He's a gent

727
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: I think he made some good points, but he was

728
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: basically saying, well, you've got this middle tier guys they're

729
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: going to carry the tour now because they have to

730
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: play a lot to try and get the elevated. And

731
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, he sided Gary Woodland and and Frankie Molinari,

732
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: who I know you love, and Billy Horssel, like those

733
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: were his examples, like this is gonna be great for

734
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: the tour because they're gonna play John Deer, They're gonna

735
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: play these other events because they're not the elevators, but

736
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: they want to get there. And if you're pinning your

737
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: entire business model on Francesco Mallnari and Gary Woodland and

738
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: Billy Horssel, that's a tough sell for these sponsors. You know,

739
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: if you're not going to get the stars. Um that

740
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: that middle that middle tier I don't think is enough

741
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: to really and bring the sponsors back. So we're heading

742
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: into a whole new era on the tour and there's

743
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: going to be it's great eight weeks a year when

744
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: when these guys are playing, and it's obviously been it's

745
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: been fun. I mean you went from from Cappelua to

746
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: Phoenix to Riviera to Bay Hill like it's been bang

747
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: bang bang, and these have all been fun events. And

748
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: the question is what's going to happen in the weeks

749
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: in between and how much contraction is they're going to

750
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: be And Adam Scott said it to me at Cappelui's

751
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: like the market's going to decide. It's that simple, like

752
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna see the sponsors are gonna leave. We know

753
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: that how many what what's gonna What's what's going to

754
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: happen week to week? Like those are the unknowns. He's like,

755
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: the these like top guys are getting what they want,

756
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: but what's that gonna mean for the whole tour. It's

757
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: it's an open question and that's just been that's been

758
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: codified now and it's gonna be fascinating to watch the

759
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: play out. I'm as interested in anybody else because we

760
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: don't know. I think you're more interested in the most

761
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: alan if you were at the if you were at them,

762
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: if you were at the Players Championship. In Commissioner Jay

763
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: Monahans Tuesday press conference, you have just one chance to

764
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: ask him a question in a public forum, which I

765
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 1: know is not your thing or mine. Um bo, would

766
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: you ask him? I will say, as I've you know,

767
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: I've talked about this. I think people know I'm writing

768
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: a book about this, the Live versus the tour and

769
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: all the subplots, and I've learned so much, and I've

770
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: tunneled so deep, and a lot of people have told

771
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: me a lot of things are not public knowledge. My

772
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: analysis of Monahan's performance has been elevated. You know, he

773
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 1: did some things in the background that turned out to

774
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: be quite effective. And even though his response was seemed

775
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: a little flat footed, you look at the players they've

776
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: held on too. I mean, I don't think if you

777
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: if you maybe my question, Actually this might be my

778
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: question from Monahan. If there was a draft and you

779
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: could pick any players you want off of Live and

780
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: bring them back to the tour, no harm, no foul,

781
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: who would you want And he would probably only say

782
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson. I'm not sure that too many of the

783
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: other guys are missed, and they're maybe Cam Smith because

784
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: he's he's such a transcendent talent. But to your earlier point,

785
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: he's not really a star. I mean, he could walk

786
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: around at the mall here in Monterey and no one

787
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: would know who he is. And he's kind of an introvert.

788
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: I mean, he doesn't give you much in the interviews,

789
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: and he's not dashingly handsome, like like an Adam Scott

790
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: like who I'm not sure that that Monahan would want

791
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: too many of those guys back in any scenario other

792
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: than Dustin. And so, you know, the tours held on

793
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: to this core of really nice guys, you know, the Rory's,

794
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: the Maxihamas, the John Rams like these are gents and

795
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: they're great players, and now they're getting them together. I mean,

796
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think. I think for all the

797
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: all the battering that Monahan has taken and all the

798
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: thoughts that he's got to go to salvage the situation,

799
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: I feel like in some ways he's prevailed. I mean,

800
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: he's got more buying from his stars than he's ever had.

801
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: They're getting they're getting more money in their pocket. The

802
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: tour schedule had gotten so bloated that it needed some contraction.

803
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: It was sort of forced upon him. But it's going

804
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: to happen and probably make the overall mechanics work better.

805
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: The players are on board for, you know, more innovation

806
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: in the telecast, with the on course interviews and other things,

807
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: like the players kind of realize, all right, we're in

808
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: an existential battle here and we've got to give something back.

809
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: And so i'd have to think about my question to Monahan,

810
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 1: but I like that one, like who would you want back?

811
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: And I think it'd be a short lists, and so, um,

812
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, Monahan's weathered the storm and the tour has

813
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: been reshaped, not fully of under his own making, but

814
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: it's a grand experiment. We're gonna see what happens. But

815
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: his top players have never been happier. And the second

816
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: tier tournament directors can grumble all they want, but you know,

817
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: those those events were not the ones that drive the tour.

818
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: They're just not. And so that that's been made very plain.

819
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: And there's a dar wining and component to this. But um,

820
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: if if the tour loses six or eight tournaments, they

821
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: still have a full schedule. There's still a lot of

822
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: playing opportunities, and um, it's just all about the stars now.

823
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: And the stars are happy and and they they're they

824
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: bought into the system, and that's just how they're plowing ahead.

825
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: What would your question being, I think that is extreme,

826
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, Alan, I think that is a really insightful answer,

827
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: because not only has Monahan whether the storm is really

828
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: and he has because he still has the but even

829
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: more sign the PGA Tour Undermonahan's leadership really has whether

830
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: you like it or not, whether you're you're on board

831
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: with every little thing that's happened or a big thing

832
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: that has happened or not. The PGA Tour could have

833
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: caved and could have died, not die. That would be

834
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: too strong. It could look totally different, and it doesn't.

835
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: And that required a lot of skill. Now to Phil

836
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: Michelson's point, it also required a lot of money, and

837
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: they had a lot of money. Who knows where these

838
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: cookie jars who are sitting and what out of the

839
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: blue they seem to have come up. What's the number, Alan, Well, well,

840
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: north of one hundred million dollars for twenty three right,

841
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: what is that? You know? I think it's one hundred

842
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: and fifty three million dollars, you know, So that was

843
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: a big help. But they had to make a lot

844
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: of very a very good place, and so they have.

845
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: You know, they they're gonna get through twenty three and

846
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: they're probably gonna get three twenty four. Long term, long term,

847
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: the pha jur will just look different if it really

848
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: goes down on this road, I think when it's all

849
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: said and done, just to speak of three iconic players

850
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: with iconic or semi iconic events, Nicholas's tournament memorial, Tigers, Rivieria,

851
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: the Arna Palmer inputational here at bay Hill, they will

852
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: look weird without full fields. And does a full field

853
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: have to be one forty four? No? You know, the

854
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: Master's sort of shows that. But there is a grandeur

855
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: to the US Open and the British Open that the

856
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: Masters does not have because of because because of the

857
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: size of the field. Yeah, I think it's true. I

858
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: mean I don't know he you know, Monahan. I don't

859
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: know if Monahan would answer your question, who would you

860
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: actually want, even though I think Dustin Johnson would be

861
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: the answer, because I think Tiger is telling people everybody

862
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: we lost is somebody I don't want to hang out with,

863
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: except for Dustin Johnson, you know, Charlie Howell, maybe Hendrik

864
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: Stenson maybe, but I'll say this about Charlie Howell's whin. Yeah,

865
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: so Charlie Charlie Howell's win, and we love Charlie Howe.

866
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: We've been around Charlie Howell and he's a great talker

867
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: and there's you know, he's got a great spirit about him.

868
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: He's been a terrific ambassador for what the PGA too

869
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: represented for a long time. But his win had zero

870
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: impact personally on me. But really, I'm except for his

871
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: bank account, you know, what did that wind actually matter?

872
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: So then you know, it's just like some meaningless movie

873
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: that you see on a Saturday night that you're never

874
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: going to think about again. I mean, that's well said.

875
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: At the same time, it's like, I don't know, is

876
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: it we'll see Is Kurt Kittiyama's win going to register

877
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: in the sports landscape? Is it gonna change professional golf?

878
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: Like I think one of the things that Live Golf

879
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: made plane is that week to week the players are businessmen.

880
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: They are trying to maximize their opportunities. They're trying to

881
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: win as much money as they can, and they're not

882
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: as romantic about it. Like you know, Phil's grandfather carried

883
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: at Pebble Beach. He's won the clam Bake five times.

884
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: He goes to dinner parties all week long. He's the

885
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: toast of the town. It's hard to imagine that Phil

886
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: just renounced the Crosby clam Bake. But I don't think

887
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: he misses it. It's just like he was there, he

888
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: did his thing. He always played with the CEO to

889
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: try it further his endorsement deals, and now he's gone.

890
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: Like I think, I think for Charles Howe, if you

891
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: whether you win and live Myacoba or you win at

892
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: the Honda Classic, I think it feels the same to

893
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: him in a lot of ways. The majors are the differentiators.

894
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: Maybe a couple of tournaments that you have some romantic attachment.

895
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: Everyone wants to win Rivere because it's a great course

896
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: and because Tiger's the host. But that didn't mean much

897
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: to you know, uh Nieman. He was like, you didn't

898
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: even come back and defend you know, the players, the

899
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: Fifth Major, the Crown Jewel, the PJ Tar camp Smith's

900
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 1: not gonna be their next week. You don't care. Like

901
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: I think that we overrate the sentimentality. These guys are

902
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: the definition of professional golfer, someone who plays golf for money,

903
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: and that's what these guys are. And I had an

904
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: agent tell me last year it was a great quote

905
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 1: which you have to understand what every professional golfer is.

906
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: They're a whore. And it was a little harsh, but

907
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: that was that was a legit sentiment. So I think

908
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: you and I what does that make the agent? What

909
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: does that make the agents? He's the pimp um obviously,

910
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: And but you and I are prone to um, to

911
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: sentiment and to romance and to poetry. But for these guys,

912
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: it's a business. And I think that's what live Golf

913
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: has made obvious and um and and everything that's followed.

914
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: You have to look through that lens. And it's kind

915
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 1: of a drag for for you and I who want

916
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: to who want to wax nostalgic. But the players are

917
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: getting what they want, which is more money. That's what

918
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: they want. It's not about the nostalgia for them. So UM,

919
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: I think when you, when you look at it in

920
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 1: those terms, it all makes more sense, even though it's saddened.

921
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: I guess you'll be looking, you know, view the way

922
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: given what you just said. And I don't disagree with

923
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: any of it. Um careers will be shorter and uh,

924
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: because you'll you'll make your you'll make big money over

925
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: a short amount of time and then you'll play your

926
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: way off of the Live Tour, you'll play your way

927
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: out of the top eighty on the PGA Tour, and

928
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: you'll have made enough money and you're not gonna want

929
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: to go start playing you know, the smaller colonial type

930
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: events whence you had a taste of the of the

931
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: elevated events and the long long JA has kind of career,

932
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: it'll be over and uh, and that'll be that'll be

933
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: to me, it'll be a shame too. But maybe I'm

934
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,919
Speaker 1: just revealing my attachment to the game that I grew

935
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: up on, which I'm never gonna appod to because I

936
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: love that game. Yeah, we don't want you to apologize.

937
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: And you know there's there's still a place for the

938
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: for the the surprise winners. I mean we saw it

939
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: at Bay Hill, like I know that you have an

940
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: affection for for the the golfers who have the powerful

941
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: lower bodies, the John rams a savory packs, you know,

942
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: with these tree trunk legs, and they just like power

943
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: through the golf swing. And we should we shoul acknowledge

944
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: that Kurt Kadiyama has one of the all time great nicknames,

945
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: which is quad Zilla because his quads are so thick,

946
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: and um, you know, it was fun to see him

947
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: get it done and it really did change his life.

948
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: And as much as that term has been thrown around

949
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: in golf, like he's this is the year for a break,

950
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: but he's got a job for two years. That's cool. Yeah, absolutely,

951
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: so there's there's still room for romance, but um, it's

952
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: become more of a business and that's just that's just

953
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: how it is. Okay, I'm just gonna we probably shot

954
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: the subject for today anyway, But I just want to

955
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: take option to one thing. And I have the highest

956
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: regard for Adam Scott, But when Adam Scott is describing

957
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: to you this business model that will work, I don't

958
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: agree that because I think the business model, if you're

959
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: going to use that phrase for this whole thing and

960
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: isn't really a business even in the in the first

961
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: case it just sort of turns out to be business.

962
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: Is the fact that people love to play golf and

963
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: therefore love to see the people who do at best

964
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: play at the highest level and that's why Colin marcawar

965
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: to degree has any public position at all is because

966
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: he plays. It's not because of his haird or his

967
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: zeek or you know, good with reporters. It's his golf skill. Period.

968
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: That's what we're drawn to. That's what drives this whole train.

969
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: And just like it drives Major League Baseball, everybody's playing

970
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: baseball as a kid, just as it's driven the NBA basketball,

971
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: skiing and all the rest of When you've got a

972
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: support with a huge, massive participation population and then they

973
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 1: get to watch the best of the best do it,

974
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: it's really neat. And if it's one level lower like

975
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: Corn Ferry, or one layer lower belower like JC Goosey

976
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: used to be many levels lower, it's not the same thing.

977
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,919
Speaker 1: You want to watch the best of the best. That

978
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: is really quote the business model, and it's not a

979
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: business model at all. It's just human nature. I want

980
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: to say, the best do their thing. Yeah, well, well said,

981
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: I think we have exhausted this topic. But it's a

982
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: fascinating one. And you know, I didn't know we're gonna

983
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: go down this road. But that's that's the fun thing

984
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: about these podcasts. We just go where the where the

985
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: muse takes us. But m Michael, I'm glad you're at

986
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: Bay Hill. I can't wait to read your story about

987
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: George Speith and all the hijinks on Sunday. Then you know,

988
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: we have we have a big event next week, Players Championship.

989
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna be weird that camps and it's

990
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: not there. They probably won't be mentioned once on NBC

991
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: or Golf Channel that the defending champion has renounced the tournament,

992
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: which is supposed to be, you know, the fifth major.

993
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: But you can set aside those scenes. You're gonna have

994
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: a lot of great players on an iconic golf course

995
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be fun, and you and I will

996
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: be two new Yeah. I mean, let's talk about where

997
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: we really are in the golf season, because this has been,

998
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, the case now for a few years. March, April, May, June, July.

999
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not saying the Players is at the

1000
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: same level as US Open, in the British Open, because

1001
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: it's not. But the Players is a great event, and

1002
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: and of course the four Majors, and then you take

1003
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: a month off and then the Ryder Cup. You know,

1004
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: this is the core of the golf season. We're playing

1005
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: and we're watching, and so if you like golf, it's

1006
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: a great time to be alive. I love that, well

1007
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: said Michael. Um, and I love the enthusiasms you bring

1008
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: to it and that despite the market forces, Uh, you

1009
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: still you still are romantic at heart, and we salute you. Uh.

1010
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: This has been another and want to I want to

1011
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: make a plug for a PGA tour entertainment. Can I

1012
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: make a plug here for appreciate to our entertainment? Please? Why?

1013
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sitting in their seat and they

1014
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: haven't kicked me out, So thank you. There you go. Um,

1015
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: I'd like to make a plug for the Classic Wood

1016
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: and Golf Tea by Maximoma. I wish I loved anything

1017
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: you play golf. I wish I love anything in this

1018
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 1: world as much as Michael loves a good golf tea.

1019
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really charming. But anyway, thank you for listening.

1020
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: For those of you out there, we appreciate your fidelity

1021
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: and we'll be back in your ear soon. So for

1022
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger, this is Alan Schipnak. That was a fire

1023
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: drill and now we're done. Idig play the wind made

1024
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: a fortune. Within my ship game, I ran a table,

1025
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: never thought I could fall, then win hit me like

1026
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: a cannon and ball, And now I can't shake this

1027
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: losing the stream. Every road I take is a dead

1028
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get

1029
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.

1030
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: I got thoughts in my head. I can't get them out,

1031
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,720
Speaker 1: trying not to think what I'm thinking about.