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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress friends. I cannot think of

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Speaker 1: a better guest to have on the podcast this week

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Speaker 1: for some introspection and some hope and some ough some

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Speaker 1: really good heart talk about compassion, not to mention all

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Speaker 1: of the artistry. This week's guest is none other than

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Speaker 1: Zachary Quintel. You likely know Zach for his roles as Siler,

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Speaker 1: the primary antagonist from the sci fi drama series Heroes,

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Speaker 1: or Spock in the film Star Trek and its sequels,

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Speaker 1: perhaps from playing the ever so scary doctor Oliver Threadson

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Speaker 1: an American horror story Asylum, which he was nominated for

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Speaker 1: an Emmy four. He is currently starring in and producing

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Speaker 1: NBC's Brilliant Minds. It is an incredible medical drama that

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Speaker 1: honors the life of real doctor Oliver Sachs, who explored

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Speaker 1: neurology and consciousness and made incredible progress in our understanding

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Speaker 1: of the human mind. Zach also has one of the

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Speaker 1: most incredible theater careers everywhere from New York Broadway, the

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Speaker 1: West End all over. He is an absolutely incredible stage

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Speaker 1: actor and he's a really phenomenal advocate and activist for

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Speaker 1: the queer community being out since twenty eleven. Zach has

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Speaker 1: been an incredible organizer and we are so lucky to

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Speaker 1: have him here today. Let's jump in. Hi, Hi Handsel.

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Speaker 1: Are you silly question? I know, I literally this morning

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Speaker 1: have just been I mean, I've been catatonic for a week.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, thank God it's Zach.

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Speaker 2: Like I was wearing my hair as walls hat today

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Speaker 2: when I went out to a meeting. I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm realizing this profound shift in practical

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Speaker 2: ways now, in ways where our position now becomes a

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Speaker 2: position of resistance, you know, it becomes a position of

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Speaker 2: our power is in the holding of who we are

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Speaker 2: and where we are in the world. And that's you know,

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Speaker 2: that is not the way I we would have liked

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Speaker 2: to see it, I know, but it doesn't diminish the

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Speaker 2: power of our position or experience. And so I think

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Speaker 2: it's just it's about really for me, it's been really

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Speaker 2: about plugging into that. This week for me has been

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Speaker 2: obviously very disorienting, and I would say the primary experience

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Speaker 2: that I've been having is one of trying to discern

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Speaker 2: a proportional response to what's happening because I think obviously

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Speaker 2: the outcome of this election is indicative of a much

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Speaker 2: broader failing of humanity. In many ways, it's a much

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Speaker 2: broader indicator and harbinger of what's to come. And I

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Speaker 2: think in some ways it is the outcome that was necessary,

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Speaker 2: and I think we can we can see that by

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Speaker 2: just how definitive it was, you know, just how absolutely

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Speaker 2: unambivalent it was. There was no ambiguity in this election.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that is a real indicator for

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Speaker 2: me of the broader conversation that we need to be

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Speaker 2: having right now, not only is a mayor, but as

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Speaker 2: human beings.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think something that's giving me some comfort is

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Speaker 1: seeing as the you know, the rest of these votes

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Speaker 1: in large states like ours get tallied, you see that

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Speaker 1: it was not an overwhelming majority at all. That does

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Speaker 1: actually help. But one of the things that it really

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Speaker 1: has solidified for me is, you know, the difference between

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Speaker 1: complex messaging and simple messaging and the simplicity of your

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Speaker 1: life is bad because of these people. Not Here's what

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Speaker 1: a four year economic recovery post a pandemic and global inflation,

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Speaker 1: and it bills to deal with it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's so complex to have real conversations, and when you

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Speaker 1: make people afraid, you can make them work against themselves.

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Speaker 1: And one of the big things that has been a

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Speaker 1: big aha moment for me in this is that they've

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Speaker 1: made every single issue that governs progress feel as elective

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Speaker 1: as they've always treated women's issues. So they'll say to us,

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Speaker 1: and you saw it a lot on this campaign because

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Speaker 1: of the overturning of Row. We understand the women are upset,

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Speaker 1: but we're focused on the economy, as though women being

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Speaker 1: denied medical care and dying in hospitals is somehow less

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Speaker 1: important than the economy for everyone.

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Speaker 2: I e.

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Speaker 1: The men. And we've basically, I don't think we've figured

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Speaker 1: out how to be clear that social issues, moral issues

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Speaker 1: are economic issues. Sure, of course, you know, the one's

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Speaker 1: been sort of relegated into emotion and one's been relegated

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Speaker 1: into fact, even though the quote unquote fact of the

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Speaker 1: economy is something that they're lying about. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh wow, we have to figure out how to communicate

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Speaker 1: and translate things like policy in completely new ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, also, as you're talking, you know, I

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Speaker 2: think we also have to zoom out again from this place, right,

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Speaker 2: I think, for me, what this experience has taught me

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Speaker 2: and brought me closer to in myself is this fundamental

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Speaker 2: understanding that we are living in an entirely unprecedented time,

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Speaker 2: that there is actually not one single human being on

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Speaker 2: the face of this planet, including Kamala Harris or Joe Biden,

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Speaker 2: or Donald Trump or Elen Musker, any of them, that

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Speaker 2: has experienced what we are about to experience collectively in

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Speaker 2: the next five, ten, fifteen, twenty twenty five years. Now,

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Speaker 2: one single person in the face of the planet has

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Speaker 2: experienced what we're about to encounter as a civilization. And

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Speaker 2: we need to get real about this truth. Yeah that

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Speaker 2: when you take the veryariables of climate change and artificial

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Speaker 2: intelligence and the confluence of those two things alone, not

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Speaker 2: to mention the myriad other things that are factors outside

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Speaker 2: of our control. But if you take those two alone

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Speaker 2: and you consider the mass migrations on this planet that

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Speaker 2: we're already starting to see that are only going to

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Speaker 2: intensify and increase, You're going to have tens of millions

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Speaker 2: of people on the face of the planet needing to move,

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Speaker 2: needing to leave where they are because their homes, their

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Speaker 2: homelands are uninhabitable. This is very real, and anyone is

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Speaker 2: welcome to deny it as vehemently or as long as

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Speaker 2: they so choose, but eventually it will become undeniable. And

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Speaker 2: then you add into that mix the infiltration of artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 2: This is a technology which we have already brought into

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Speaker 2: our experience. We've already brought it into our lives. It's

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Speaker 2: on our phones, it's in my toothbrush, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the the blanket way in which we've embraced this technology

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Speaker 2: that we know so very very little about, and this

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Speaker 2: technology which is designed to evolve exponentially. The supposition that

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Speaker 2: that technology will not evolve beyond our capacity to manage it,

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Speaker 2: or regulate it or control it is absurd as far

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Speaker 2: as I'm concerned. And the question is really just a

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Speaker 2: matter of how long will it take for that to happen.

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Speaker 2: And so once that happens, and you mix into the

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Speaker 2: confluence of you know, global migrations and climate migrations and

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Speaker 2: climate refugees, we're going to see a planet that doesn't

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Speaker 2: resemble itself in any way. And I think you know

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Speaker 2: to what it is now, and I think that that's

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Speaker 2: going to happen a lot sooner than we might think.

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Speaker 2: You know, if not in our lifetime, certainly in our

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Speaker 2: children's lifetimes, not that I have children, but if I did,

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Speaker 2: you know, my god children's lifetimes, my yes. So I

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Speaker 2: feel like yes, politics, yes, how do we communicate policy? Yes? Yes? Yes?

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Speaker 2: And how do we move beyond these social constructs and

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Speaker 2: belief systems that we have all collectively agreed would be

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Speaker 2: our guiding principles through this life, which are clearly showing

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Speaker 2: signs not only of strain, but of collapse. The structures

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Speaker 2: are not holding anymore. Geopolitical boundaries are not going to

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Speaker 2: be any kind of calming force in the context of

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Speaker 2: climate change or artificial intelligence. Right, people who cannot any

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Speaker 2: longer live in the place that they were living and

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Speaker 2: have to move somewhere else are not going to be

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Speaker 2: able to afford the luxury of a boundary, of a

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Speaker 2: national boundary. It's simply eventually not going to sustain with

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Speaker 2: the population of our planet. And so we really do,

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Speaker 2: I believe, have our responsibility to yes, get on the ground,

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Speaker 2: roll up our sleeves and figure out how can we

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Speaker 2: slow the role of this incredibly small minded, punitive, ungenerous

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Speaker 2: political platform that is embodied by this administration that's about

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Speaker 2: to take control. How can we resist, how can we

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Speaker 2: make it harder for them? But also how can we

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Speaker 2: realize that we kind of are focusing a little bit

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Speaker 2: on the wrong thing, and what we need to be

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Speaker 2: focusing on is actually how are we going to survive?

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Speaker 2: How are we going to thrive as a civilization? You know,

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Speaker 2: I mean the sort of most reductive example of this

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Speaker 2: that I could really think about is like just the

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Speaker 2: Middle East and the battle over these places, this land

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Speaker 2: that is so tethered to identity, religious identity. But the

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Speaker 2: reality is that when it's one hundred and seventy degrees

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Speaker 2: in a place that is uninhabitable, it doesn't matter who

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Speaker 2: got there first or who belongs to it, because nobody's

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Speaker 2: going to be able to be there. And so where

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Speaker 2: are we going to go together? Where are we going

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Speaker 2: to go together? That's my question for everybody, because we're

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Speaker 2: focused on the binary, we're focused on the black and white.

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Speaker 2: You're right, I'm wrong, it's this way, not that way.

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Speaker 2: But that way of thinking is really largely responsible for

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Speaker 2: Goddess here in the first place. And it's self directed.

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Speaker 2: It's small s self directed thinking, And what I'm suggesting,

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Speaker 2: and what I had been suggesting even through the campaign,

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Speaker 2: is that we have to create space to allow for

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Speaker 2: the evolution of our civilization, and the only way that

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Speaker 2: we're able to do that is to expand consciousness. And

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Speaker 2: so for me, the outcome of this election and the

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Speaker 2: thing that is instilled in me is this commitment to

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Speaker 2: my own continued expanding consciousness and to encourage other people

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Speaker 2: to come on a path of consciousness expansion, because I

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Speaker 2: think it's the only way we're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to see beyond the things that are right in front

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Speaker 2: of us, that are blinding us to the fact that

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Speaker 2: the whole ship is sinking. Guys, you know, it's not

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Speaker 2: just our country. It's not just our country. It is

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Speaker 2: our civilization. And we have to be accountable to ourselves

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Speaker 2: and to each other in a way that transcends geopolitical identity,

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Speaker 2: in a way that transcends ideology, in a way that

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Speaker 2: transcends the constructs of radicalized religious fervor and extremism on

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Speaker 2: any level. And I think we're really living through the

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Speaker 2: awakening to that, and people are awakening to it at

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Speaker 2: different rates and in different ways, and it's coming online

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Speaker 2: in people's experience very differently, and this election was certainly

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Speaker 2: a big kind of unity point, I think for a

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Speaker 2: lot of our country and a lot of the world

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Speaker 2: to say, whoa wha wha wha wha Wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: this is what we're embracing now. This is the message

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Speaker 2: we're sending to the world. This place that for two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years has been bring us, you're tired,

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Speaker 2: you're poor, bring us everything, and we will create a

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Speaker 2: place for that has just become There is no room

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Speaker 2: in the inn. That's what we have just become to

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Speaker 2: the world. And so how do we reconcile that as

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Speaker 2: people who still believe in those fundamental truths on which

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Speaker 2: this country was built. Yeah, that's I think really what

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Speaker 2: we have to ask ourselves now, And how do we

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Speaker 2: do it with compassion for the people who are so

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Speaker 2: spun up in anger and so spun up in hatred

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Speaker 2: that the only path that they see forward is to

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Speaker 2: cut other people down so that they can feel powerful. Right.

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Speaker 2: That is the thing that I think is the real

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Speaker 2: unknown variable in this equation, which is will it be

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Speaker 2: enough for them that they have won or is it

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Speaker 2: going to have to be also punishing and I think

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid that the answer is the latter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, particularly because I see the boasting about

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Speaker 1: it and the planning for it, and I do think

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting. We, as you said, the ground game

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Speaker 1: of making sure that we can wrap our arms around community,

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Speaker 1: we can support our most vulnerable, and it requires a

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Speaker 1: both and an extreme zoom in on the local level.

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Speaker 1: And then as you're talking about this massive zoom out

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Speaker 1: to discuss a global shift, because it's not a coincidence

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Speaker 1: that you have Nazis running for election in Sweden and

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Speaker 1: you have a far right violent leader in Italy and

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Speaker 1: around the world, you see this swing tourn athanitarianism, and

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Speaker 1: all the historians have been saying, hey, guys, we've been

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Speaker 1: trying to talk to you about one hundred year cycles.

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Speaker 1: We've said, it's coming. Study the nineteen twenties, study the

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Speaker 1: rise of Hitler. It's coming. And I think, as you've said,

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Speaker 1: we can look at history to understand how this kind

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Speaker 1: of fear based violent movement builds, but we have absolutely

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Speaker 1: no predictors for what it looks like in a modern era.

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Speaker 1: As the planet heats and as artificial intelligence has literally

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Speaker 1: declared a war on truth, science facts, and even injury.

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Speaker 1: We don't even know what if, what if what we're

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Speaker 1: looking at is real anymore, and so it's a very

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Speaker 1: wild time. But I want to thank you because in

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Speaker 1: all the years that I've known you, you're such a

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Speaker 1: you really are, And I just realized I almost did

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Speaker 1: a punt. I was going to say, you're such a

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Speaker 1: brilliant mind, and then I was like, wait, that's so dumb.

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Speaker 1: It's the literal name of your DV job. But it's true.

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Speaker 1: And and I really I always cherish the time that

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Speaker 1: I get to spend with you, because whether it's been

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Speaker 1: a week or a year, we just pick up and

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Speaker 1: you're just a gem in my life and you're one

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Speaker 1: of the people who makes me feel like we will

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Speaker 1: build the community we need.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to I feel that way about

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Speaker 2: you too. I really do thank you for saying that.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I I definitely am in this part

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Speaker 2: of my experience. This zoom out for me is where

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Speaker 2: I need to be. I know that a lot of

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Speaker 2: the things that I'm talking about seem abstract. I don't

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Speaker 2: think they're as abstract as as they might come across initially,

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Speaker 2: but I really do feel like this is a moment

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Speaker 2: of tremendous possibility. And you know, with possibility comes comes sacrifice.

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Speaker 2: With possibility comes you know, tumult And we are certainly

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Speaker 2: seeing that in our collective experience right now. But I

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Speaker 2: do feel like we cannot despair, you know, we cannot

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Speaker 2: we cannot surrender, we cannot collapse because the reality is

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Speaker 2: that there is space for everybody. That is the reality,

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Speaker 2: you know, from from a consciousness perspective, There is space

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Speaker 2: for everybody. And and I don't need to hate someone

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Speaker 2: else because they believe something differently from me, or they

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Speaker 2: live differently, or they are different than I. But and

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Speaker 2: I and I'm really trying to work with compassion for

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Speaker 2: people who do. I'm really trying to work with compassion

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Speaker 2: for people who do and to just say like I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm really sorry, because the ultimate thing is he may

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Speaker 2: be president, but I'll tell you something, the personal experience

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Speaker 2: must be really really bleak and dark. And and to

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Speaker 2: have that be the experience of consciousness is I just feel,

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Speaker 2: you know, I can't it's I don't know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I can say. Yeah, it is

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Speaker 2: a really unfathomable time.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute. But here's a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. Thank you for taking the time

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Speaker 1: to just sit in it with me. You know, normally

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Speaker 1: when someone comes on the show, we don't talk about

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Speaker 1: the president right away. The thing I love to ask

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Speaker 1: everyone because people know you from your amazing body of work,

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Speaker 1: and you know, especially in our peer group, we've now

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Speaker 1: been on television and whatnot for a long time, so

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Speaker 1: we've had this presence. You know, we've been blessed to

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Speaker 1: have this presence in people's lives and homes. But I'm

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Speaker 1: always really curious about who you were as a child,

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Speaker 1: and particularly I'm glad we've begun dropping into our present

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Speaker 1: before we rewind, because you are one of the most

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Speaker 1: intelligent and most thoughtful, most eloquent people that I know.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really curious if we could kind of rewind

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Speaker 1: the film of your life and go back and like

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Speaker 1: have lunch with eight or nine year old Zach in

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Speaker 1: the backyard. Were you were you always the kind of

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Speaker 1: kid where people said, Wow, you're so wise for your age,

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Speaker 1: or you're so much for your age. Were you very

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Speaker 1: bookish then, or have you evolved into a literary mind?

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Speaker 2: Oh well, that's so I'm bleshing. That's very so sweet

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Speaker 2: of me to say all those really kind things, Sophia,

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Speaker 2: thank you. I don't I mean, if I rewind the tape.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, the single most defining experience in

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Speaker 2: my entire life was the death of my father, which

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Speaker 2: happened when I was seven years old. And I think

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Speaker 2: that was the origin of my personality in a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways, because to experience a profound loss at such

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Speaker 2: a young age is to be almost instantly jettisoned into

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Speaker 2: an abyss of Yeah, it's somewhere no child should ever

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Speaker 2: have to be emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically. It's a tragedy

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Speaker 2: of life when a child loses a parent such an age.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that being cast into that is

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Speaker 2: where I realized from a very early age that I

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Speaker 2: needed to cultivate an inner knowing. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that tragedy evolved into the single greatest gift of my

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Speaker 2: experience because it really necessitated me cultivating a a mode

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Speaker 2: of self understanding and in a way to express that

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Speaker 2: as well. And so, you know, I was really precocious.

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Speaker 2: I was really like, I didn't have any kind of guardrails,

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Speaker 2: punchlag guard president I didn't have any I didn't have

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Speaker 2: any guardrails to kind of shape or define what was

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Speaker 2: the best way to communicate. And so it was a

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Speaker 2: real trial and error kind of situation. So I was smart,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't know what to do with it. So

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Speaker 2: I was kind of My mom always used to say,

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Speaker 2: you're such a know at all, you know. I used

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Speaker 2: to think I knew best about everything, and I was

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Speaker 2: really like and so I learned over the years how

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Speaker 2: to soften that part and cultivate, Like it's all about balance,

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Speaker 2: right when you're building an understanding of self, right, it's

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Speaker 2: really about kind of integrating and smoothing and that I

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Speaker 2: spent you know, all those fifty years doing so it's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's an evolution of course. And so if

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Speaker 2: we really rewind the tape back to then, it was

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Speaker 2: like I was, I was all over the place. You know.

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Speaker 2: I really had a pretty chaotic childhood just because of that,

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Speaker 2: because of my friend's death.

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Speaker 1: My immediate thought is, I mean, age is soness for

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Speaker 1: little you. But also the shift if that were to

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Speaker 1: happen to a kid now, the mental health resources.

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Speaker 2: That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: The books to read, the accounts they could even follow

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Speaker 1: on social media about therapy, self care, grief process those

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Speaker 1: things didn't exist.

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Speaker 2: When did not exist, It's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: How what did you turn to? You know? Was was

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Speaker 1: performance or cinema? Were those the places you could go

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Speaker 1: to learn how to process feelings?

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Speaker 2: Well? I learned how to process feelings by watching the adults,

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Speaker 2: because nobody was coming to me to say, hey, little guy,

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Speaker 2: little seven year old, like, how are you feeling? And again,

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Speaker 2: I don't fault them for this, because, as you pointed out,

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Speaker 2: it just wasn't It wasn't a part of our social

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Speaker 2: fabric yet. So I don't fault anyone in my life

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Speaker 2: for not knowing to do better. But they certainly could

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Speaker 2: have done better. Yes, I remember vividly being in the

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Speaker 2: funeral home when my father was being laid out, and

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Speaker 2: I remember sitting in a chair and no one was

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Speaker 2: paying any attention to me because they were all sort

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Speaker 2: of in their own grief. And I remember looking around

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Speaker 2: at all these adults. So I was looking up and

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Speaker 2: around and I remember like, oh, because this is how

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Speaker 2: I learned about death. This is death. Okay, what do

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Speaker 2: I do? Well? Look at what she's doing. Oh, she

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Speaker 2: seems sad. She's crying. That seems okay, she cry. So

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Speaker 2: then I started to really like learn from watching adults,

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Speaker 2: and then that did very much segue eventually into me

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Speaker 2: finding my way into performing. I found my way into

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Speaker 2: acting classes. I found my way into performing in a

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Speaker 2: group in Pitts, where I grew up, and that became

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Speaker 2: an outlet for me to understand that these emotions that

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Speaker 2: I was feeling could be applied to something. Actually, like

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Speaker 2: it was a very bizarre way to arrive at a vocation,

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Speaker 2: but that's what happened, you know, And so I think

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Speaker 2: my personality really evolved from that. And I really understood

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Speaker 2: the value of observing an experience, internalizing an experience, and

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Speaker 2: then expressing an experience. And I learned that both as

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Speaker 2: a person but also as an actor, which I couldn't

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Speaker 2: have really identified at such a young age, but I

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Speaker 2: can now identify forty years later looking back on it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you just.

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Speaker 1: Jogged my memory about an experience I had in high

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Speaker 1: school learning that I could express anger on stage because

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Speaker 1: that was not I was never taught that it was

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Speaker 1: perfectionism and kindness and politeness. And you know, I do

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Speaker 1: all the things as an adult to learn to unpack

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Speaker 1: the sort of nature of people pleasing. I think service

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Speaker 1: is great, people pleasing less so, but yeah, acting watching

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Speaker 1: people get to have imperfect emotion, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: people get to do messy interesting. Yeah, and messy is

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Speaker 1: actually what makes life so beautiful and so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, messiness was not allowed at home, or it was.

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Speaker 2: I mean home was messy, but you know, in the world,

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Speaker 2: like from home to the world, messiness wasn't an option presentationally,

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Speaker 2: So to learn how to present messiness or chaos or upheaval,

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Speaker 2: those things were valuable for me, as it sounds like

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Speaker 2: they were for you too.

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Speaker 1: I mean for me, something really transformative was having to

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Speaker 1: be forced to learn to judge the characters I play

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Speaker 1: because the immediate things a woman, oh what I couldn't

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Speaker 1: possibly but people will hate her, they will think, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, okay, interesting, Is she not allowed to

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Speaker 1: have a hard time? Is she not allowed to fail?

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Speaker 1: Is she not allowed to have a bad day?

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Speaker 2: Wow? It's so fascinating, And.

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Speaker 1: It was a really interesting thing for very cool.

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Speaker 2: So interesting what informs our process right in our relationship

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Speaker 2: to our work. But that's fascinating to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I mean especially right now. I felt this

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Speaker 1: way prior to the election, and now I'm like, give me,

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Speaker 1: give me someone who's a mess, Like, where is my

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Speaker 1: nurse Jackie? I'm ready to go. You have played so

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Speaker 1: many iconic roles. I mean, we've talked a bit about

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Speaker 1: what it was like to step into the world of

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Speaker 1: Star Trek. We met, you know, as little in this

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Speaker 1: business when you were working on Heroes. What has been

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Speaker 1: sort of the real ratio of like because everyone will

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Speaker 1: always say, how do you pick roles? And sometimes you're like,

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Speaker 1: I pitched the role I auditioned.

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Speaker 2: For and got exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: Like what when you look back now on those moments

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Speaker 1: in time, how do you reflect on the show, that

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Speaker 1: cinematic universe? What do they mean to you?

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Speaker 2: Both Heroes and Star Trek were profoundly meaningful to me creatively, professionally, personally.

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Speaker 2: They happened within a year of one another, so it

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Speaker 2: went from you know, it was such a profound transformation

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Speaker 2: of experience for me when I was twenty nine and thirty.

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Speaker 2: I got Heroes in September two and six, and I

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Speaker 2: got Star Trek in April of two and seven, Junior

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Speaker 2: of two seven. Sorry, I got started two days after

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Speaker 2: my thirtieth birthday, So it really really informed that seminal

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Speaker 2: moment of my life by just kind of catapulting me

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Speaker 2: into another level of experience at thirty years old. So

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Speaker 2: I look back on them both with tremendous gratitude and fondness,

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Speaker 2: you know, for both what they and brought into my

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Speaker 2: life creatively and professionally, but also personally the relationships to

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Speaker 2: the friendships. You know, they were both really fun jobs.

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Speaker 2: And to learn to have my association with film and

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Speaker 2: television be so rooted in joy with those two shows

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Speaker 2: was really wonderful and has informed other experiences that I've had,

432
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: you know before that my experiences were either insignificant, you know,

433
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: just learn the ropes, like guest stars here and there,

434
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: and you know, just trying to cobble something together. The first,

435
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: the first ongoing TV job I had was on twenty four,

436
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: that show, and that was not a very pleasant experience,

437
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: and so I didn't really feel inspired by it, and

438
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: it kind of left me with a little bit of

439
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: uncertainty about like what is this going to be like?

440
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: And then heroes came into my life in a way,

441
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: and there were some other things in between there that

442
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: were really fun. And influential as well. But yeah, but

443
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: I'd say that was the kind of journey of it.

444
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a

445
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. When and I don't

446
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, you don't obviously have to share, but I

447
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: know what it's like to work on a set that

448
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: makes you go, wait, do I want to do this?

449
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: This feels not nice? How did you sort of navigate

450
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: out of an unpleasant, recurring experience so that you could

451
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: go into a show like Heroes with a new sort

452
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: of energy? Were you were there?

453
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: There?

454
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: Skills you were learning, you know. I know you've talked

455
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: so much about your passion for meditation. I'm like, is

456
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: that when you started meditating?

457
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no, not at all. I didn't start

458
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: medic until much, much, much, much later. No, I was learning,

459
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: you know. That was a real learning learning time for me.

460
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: And to be on twenty four and to work in

461
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: an environment like that with consistency, and to have a

462
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: job and to be able to earn a living as

463
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: an actor, there was a lot of gratitude that I

464
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: had at the time, and I made the most of

465
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: the experience. It just wasn't a pleasant environment. You know,

466
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: and we know from working in television that the person

467
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: is responsible for the environment. I said, is the number

468
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: one of the call sheet. And that was not an

469
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: environment that was fostered by number one in the call

470
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: sheet in a generous or compassionate way at all. And

471
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: so I learned a lot about power dynamics. I learned

472
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: a lot about what not to do, actually, and I

473
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: think sometimes learning what not to do is even more

474
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: important than learning what to do. Yeah, and now that

475
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: I am number one in a call sheet, you know,

476
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: twenty some years later, I can guarantee you that not

477
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: one single person who walks on my set will ever

478
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: have the experience that I had when I walked on

479
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 2: the set of twenty four And so, you know, I

480
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: do think that those lessons of how we carry things

481
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: with us and how we move through the world get

482
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: informed by lessons of what not to do.

483
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I ran my last show in a very specific

484
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: way for the exact same reason, and nothing mattered more

485
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: to me, even though we did one season. Like for me,

486
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: it's the best project, not because of the time, but

487
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: because of the feedback, and particularly because of the feedback

488
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: from the men on set who said, Wow, this is

489
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: even really different from me. I'm so grateful to have

490
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: done this. And I just think there's like you can

491
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: either have a ripple effect that's hurtful or a ripple

492
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: effect that's really healing for people. And I love that

493
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: you're in that. Does being number one on that call

494
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: sheet on you know, it's a big show, it's a

495
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: big network, you know, NBC show. Is there something about

496
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: that where you know, the you who was pounding the

497
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: pavement on all the auditions back in the day. Do

498
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: you go like, Wow, shit, I really made it. I've

499
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: got this thing. Or because you've had so many verticals

500
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: under the you know, the sort of tent of your career,

501
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: particularly you know your theater work is so amazing, do

502
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: you kind of check boxes in each designation of performance?

503
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: No? No, I don't really. It's just all it's all

504
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: an evolution, so one thing leads to another. I can't

505
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: have one experience if I haven't had the experience before it,

506
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: and so I never look at it as like, oh

507
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 2: I need to achieve this level of something. It's like

508
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: it's all a continuum for me. It's all like, well,

509
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: where do I go now? That was an incredible experience

510
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: and now or maybe that wasn't such an incredible experience,

511
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 2: But where do I go now? You know, whatever the case,

512
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: maybe I've been very fortunate. I mean, I do feel

513
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: very lucky that a lot of the things that I've

514
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 2: worked on, even if they weren't smash hit, you know, projects,

515
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: were very enjoyable and fulfilling, and so, you know, I

516
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: really look at it that way. I really look at

517
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 2: my relationship to my work is my work is done

518
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: when I leave a project, you know, and in the

519
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: case of film and television, then a lot of other

520
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: people come in and start their process and you know,

521
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: shape the work after I've done my part, and so

522
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: then I can relinquish because it's out of my control.

523
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: So I really try to stay connected to what it

524
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: is that I have some measurable hand in influencing, because

525
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: then then I can stay where I am and I

526
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: don't get pulled ahead of myself or behind myself. That's

527
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: something I've learned over time as well. But so for me,

528
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: it's just about like what is going to be the

529
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: most interesting next thing. I don't plot or plan more

530
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: than to say that I do. I did my first

531
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: play in New York in twenty ten, I did Angels

532
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 2: in America, and when I did that, I made a

533
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: commitment to myself that I would do a play every

534
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: other season, and pretty much with the exception of COVID,

535
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: I've been able to adhere to that commitment. So I

536
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 2: really do carve out time in my life to do theater,

537
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: and that has been the foundation and the basis, and

538
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: I think, in many ways the catalyst for a career

539
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: that has now spanned you know, twenty years almost.

540
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 1: That's so cool.

541
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: Probably more Jesus, more.

542
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: Nobody, we don't have to count. You know, something I

543
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: really admire. And I know I mentioned a little bit

544
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: of this before, but you've shared a lot about meditation.

545
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: You've You've also shared a lot with people about how

546
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: you know when when you hit a certain level of success.

547
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: You talked about how drinking.

548
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: Got problematic for you, oh for sure.

549
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: And the reason I sort of lumped the two together

550
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: is because, really, just in what you talked about with work,

551
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: there's also the personal practice of not.

552
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 2: I won't even.

553
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: Say not, of having to learn not to let so

554
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: much noise and so much expectation completely pull you out

555
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: of yourself. You know, I talked about this recently with

556
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: some of the abuse folks like us face on the internet.

557
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: And I said, look, no matter how many millions of

558
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: people come in, there's still just one of me. It

559
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: is a very strange experience as a human to be

560
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: sort of expected to output everywhere all the time. How

561
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: did you kind of shift a relationship with alcohol which

562
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: can become so problematic for so many artists, and not

563
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: just shift it, but find a healthier practice for yourself?

564
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: Right? Well, yeah, I stopped drinking altogether. I don't drink

565
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: at all. And it's been eight years. Wow, never ever

566
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: miss it. Never. I can't imagine a circumstance under which

567
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: I would ever think it would be the right decision

568
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 2: to have a drink that could change. I suppose I

569
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: allow for that to change, but I couldn't conceive of it, really.

570
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: And I was totally sober for six years, and I think,

571
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: you know, during that time, I faced a lot of

572
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: aspects of myself that I hadn't allowed space or time for,

573
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: and that was really challenging. It was really difficult getting sober.

574
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 2: It was really really hard. But I've never been one

575
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: to shy away from hard work within myself. You know,

576
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 2: I've been in therapy for over twenty years. I've done

577
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: a lot of different exploration around spirituality, expanding consciousness. I

578
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: worked with medicine quite a bit. I've been to Peru

579
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 2: numerous times. I've spent a lot of time in the

580
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: jungles with the Shapebo people there, and so I've I've

581
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: learned a lot of lessons by by by going deep

582
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: within myself and uh and and I'm now in a

583
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 2: place in my life where I'm starting to be able

584
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 2: to accumulate the lessons and lay them out in front

585
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: of me and recognize them for what they are and

586
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: see how they connect and acknowledge from a place of

587
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: deep gratitude and humility that it is those lessons that

588
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: have made me who I am and uh and and

589
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: a lot of those lessons were hard won, hard learned,

590
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: you know. But but that's sort of how I how

591
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 2: I approach it. And meditation, I think I would have

592
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: to say, has been the single biggest teacher for me.

593
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: It's absolutely transformed my life in ways that I am

594
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: always happy to talk about if people are interested in listening.

595
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: But I started meditating six years ago, and it came

596
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: from a place of incredible upheaval and trauma in my

597
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 2: life at the end of a long relationship that ended

598
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: in a particularly brutal way and left me feeling bereft

599
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: of any sense of direction in my own life. And

600
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: so I had this meditation practice. I got initiated into

601
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: transcendential meditation a few months after I got sober in

602
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. But I had a very tenuous relationship with

603
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: my practice. It's intended to be twice a day, twenty

604
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: minutes each time, and I would maybe do it once

605
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: a day, a couple times a week. You know. I

606
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 2: was not really in any kind of a consistent flow

607
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 2: with my practice until this moment of tremendous upheaval, and

608
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: I had no way. I couldn't I couldn't feel my

609
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: way through the emotional pain. Yeah, so I just started meditating.

610
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: I said, well, I have this in my in my toolkit,

611
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 2: why why not try it and see what happens. And

612
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: so I started meditating. And now for six years, I

613
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 2: have meditated every day twice a day for the most part,

614
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 2: you know, And it's and from there I found teachers.

615
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 2: I found people that I really aligned with and identified

616
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 2: with and who really inspired me and who really taught

617
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: me to really teach me. It's really revolutionized who I

618
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: am and how I am.

619
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. It's amazing. And now for our sponsors,

620
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: it's not lost on me that you are willing to

621
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: share parts of yourself when you talk about things like this,

622
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: you know, to be so beautifully acknowledging, you know, a

623
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: struggle that so many people in the country and around

624
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: the world go through when habits become potentially risky, you know,

625
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: vergon or could be classified as addiction. You know, we're

626
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: talking about mental health, and we're talking about grief and

627
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: loss and all of these things, and there is a

628
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: really interesting kind of tightrope that is so important to

629
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: walk as a public figure, you know, to not reduce

630
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: your humanity and become a paper doll version of yourself

631
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: in the world, but also to not encourage an invasion

632
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: of privacy. And I think I'm just so amazed in

633
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: the way that you do it. And I'm grateful, you know,

634
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: not just as a person who considers you a friend

635
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: or the person who's interviewing you today, but you know

636
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: also someone who runs in this in this business, because

637
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: you you remind me of how to do it really well.

638
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: And I think back to twenty eleven, because you were

639
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: doing Angels in America in twenty ten, which is, you know,

640
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: a sort of iconic not just play, but play for

641
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: the LGBTQ plus community. And you did the play in

642
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: twenty ten, but you came out in twenty eleven. And

643
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm really curious about your journey and your decision because

644
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: I've I've just done this, you know, in my own way, myself.

645
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: Share of course beautifully as well, I think, I mean,

646
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: we try.

647
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: But I wonder for you, you know, thirteen years ago,

648
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: what was the experience like for you culturally, because that's

649
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: also five years before you began your meditation practice, five

650
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: years before you got sober. You know, I just wonder

651
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: in the kind of tapestry of your life how that

652
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: experience affected you in your journey.

653
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: Right. I made a promise to myself when I became

654
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: famous that I would not adjust the way I live

655
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 2: my life in the face of that reality. And I've

656
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: pretty much been able to adhere to that, you know,

657
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: I've pretty much been able to cultivate a life for

658
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: myself which recognizes the fact that I am very very

659
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 2: very human, and I'm very very very flawed, and I

660
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: have come to cultivate compassion for myself and acceptance of

661
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: myself and a generosity to myself which is not informed

662
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 2: by whether or not I'm famous. And so those are

663
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: the things that guide me. And so in talking about it,

664
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: I feel like we are all in this together, yes,

665
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: And I think it's never been more important to realize

666
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: that than it is right now. And so if anything

667
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: that I've gone through experienced resonates for someone, or makes

668
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 2: someone feel seen, or allows someone to access or acknowledge

669
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 2: some part of themselves that they previously hadn't been able

670
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: to access or acknowledge, then that's part of my purpose.

671
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: That's part of why I am in the position that

672
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: I've been to be able to have this conversation with

673
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: you that a lot of people will listen to if

674
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: they want to. So I see it contextualized in that way.

675
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: And so for me, those kinds of conversations are what

676
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 2: life is about. Whether you're famous or not, we should

677
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: be having them. And I don't want to let the

678
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: fact that I happen to be a public figure diminish

679
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 2: my capacity to have those conversations or the experiences of

680
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: life that I want to have as well. You know,

681
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: so I really just try to live a life that

682
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: is aligned with my understanding of who I am, and

683
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: my understanding who I am, as I mentioned before, is

684
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: not something that I take for granted, and it's not

685
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: something that I allow to be dictated to me. It's

686
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: something that I have worked long and very hard to

687
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: define for myself, and so that's how I try to

688
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: move through the world. And I've had incredibly valuable and

689
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: rich experiences as a result, and so I just have

690
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: taken that as an indication that I should just keep

691
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 2: doing what I've been doing because it's allowed me to

692
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 2: arrive at a place where I feel I feel really grateful.

693
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: So coming out for me was one of those times

694
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: where I just I've told this story many times, so

695
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: anybody that is interested in my coming out can probably

696
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: just google it, and there's many interviews about it and many,

697
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 2: you know, articles and podcasts. I've talked about it a lot.

698
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing that I can acknowledge in

699
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: this conversation that's relevant to what we're talking about is

700
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: that it was one of those times where I didn't

701
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: look outside of myself for guidance. I looked inside myself

702
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: for guidance. And I, And even though I was still

703
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: drinking and I wasn't yet meditating, I still was attuned

704
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: enough with an inner knowing that made that decision completely

705
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: unambivalent and completely unambiguous. I didn't need anybody's help or guidance,

706
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 2: and I didn't tell anybody that I was going to

707
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: come publicly. I did it on my own terms, in

708
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: my own time, in my own way. And then after

709
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 2: that I told people by the way I came out

710
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: in that interview that I gave for New York Magazine.

711
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: You know, I really asked of myself, what is the

712
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: best path here? And I and I trusted the answer.

713
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: And that's a notion that I have really worked to

714
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 2: implement in many different ways of my life.

715
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: I also think there's a really profound shift that happens

716
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: as an individual when you really really listen to what

717
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: your soul is telling you, no matter what the rest

718
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: of the noise in the world around.

719
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: You is, that's exactly right. Yeah, And that was an

720
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: early lesson for me in my career that helped me

721
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: solidify that notion of that what you just.

722
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: Said, I love that. I think it's so beautiful and

723
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an accident. You know, I don't

724
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: want to sound like the most la person and like

725
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: do the wu thing, but I think it's really pretty

726
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: profound when you look at the journey of your career

727
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: and your life and your self exploration that the job

728
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: you are currently doing really revolves around neurology, like the

729
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: inner workings of the brain. But you can address a

730
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: lot of that's it, it's conscious.

731
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 2: Soular Sacks was. You know, the character that I play

732
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: is based on a real life person, Oliver Sacks, who

733
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: was a renowned neurologist and prolific author and someone who

734
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: is voraciously curious about the human experience as it relates

735
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: to consciousness, which is really the final frontier of the

736
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: human experience. And I agree with you. I think there

737
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 2: is no mistake and why not get woo woo. Honestly,

738
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 2: you know, if you really, if you really zoom out

739
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 2: and look at the mystery of life, there is an

740
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 2: element of it that that cannot be explained by any

741
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 2: way other than an expression of cosmic nature. And I

742
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: think the more that I, in my own experience have

743
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 2: opened to that and allowed for that in my life,

744
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: the miracles just keep revealing themselves. You know, and that

745
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 2: is that is to me become a significant life's purpose,

746
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: making space for those miracles and making space for for

747
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 2: cosmic nature.

748
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So I have a question because the man

749
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: you play, as you mentioned, you know, for the folks

750
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: at home, a wonderful person to research in their cars

751
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: or in their cars. Yes, well, yeah, if you're going

752
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: to google him and do some research case when not driving.

753
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: But you know you do you But I'm so curious

754
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: about this because we've talked about the show. But I

755
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: realized I haven't asked you this question even offline. Did

756
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: you bring this project to the network?

757
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 2: No?

758
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: No, I was curious if you developed it because of

759
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: all your study. So how did it find you? How

760
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: did it happen?

761
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: I was doing a play in London and I was

762
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: coming to the end of my run, and so it

763
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 2: was time to consider what was next, and was having

764
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: those conversations with my agents and my managers, and they

765
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 2: came to me with this project. And I was originally

766
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: a little unsure if I wanted to go into a

767
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: network tea. I don't know. I just was like, is

768
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: this what we're doing now? Like this was kind of

769
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 2: at the height of the success of show was like

770
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: White Lotus and Succession, these zeitgeisty shows, these HBO shows

771
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: that were like you know on HBO or streamers or

772
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: you know, just so I thought like, is the network

773
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 2: path the way to go? But I was really strongly

774
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: advised to consider it, and so I did, and I

775
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 2: read the script, which was very well written, and then

776
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: I tried to say no, and my team was like,

777
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: I really was like, I don't know, guys, I'm not

778
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: sure this is for me. I know, I'm not sure

779
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: it's the right time basically the right fit at the

780
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: right time, and they really encouraged me to reconsider. And

781
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: part of that reconsideration was they said, just take a

782
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 2: meeting with the creative team and see how you feel.

783
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 2: You know, they're really interested in you for this, and

784
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 2: so I did. I met with Michael Grassie, our showrunner

785
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: and one of the most delightful humans and so smart,

786
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: and at the end of that zoom, I was like, Oh,

787
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: I got to do this pilot. You know, I just

788
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 2: knew from the alchemy of our chemistry. He was so

789
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 2: just exactly the kind of collaborator that I want, the

790
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: way he talked about it, the way that he asked

791
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: me questions. I just felt like, Oh, this is going

792
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 2: to be a really rich collaboration, and so I said yes.

793
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: And then it was kind of a miracle that the

794
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: show went from pilot to series because we did the

795
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 2: pilot and then the strikes happened, and in the middle

796
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: of the strike, Susan Rosner, who was running NBC left

797
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: and Lisa Katz came in and Donna Langley got promoted,

798
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: and we all thought like, oh, well, you know, that's

799
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 2: never a good sign in the middle of a you know,

800
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 2: a decision making period, when like a regime change happens

801
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 2: at the executive level, you kind of just figure, like

802
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: all the old stuff is going to get thrown out

803
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 2: with the old administration. Seems fitting, But it wasn't the case.

804
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 2: They really stayed committed to the show and they really

805
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: have invested in it, and they picked it up to

806
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: series and they've been incredible partners, and I just feel

807
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: really grateful, and I hope we get to keep telling

808
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: me stories because it's been a real choice and honoring

809
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 2: Oliver Sacks and working with this incredible cast of actors

810
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: on the show and UH and Michael Grassi and all

811
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: the wonderful directors and producers. I mean, it's just a

812
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: really good vibe. And so I hope we get to

813
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: keep doing it. But but we'll see. We don't know yet.

814
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: I hope so too. I really love it, Thanks, I

815
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: really do. What do What do you feel like? Obviously

816
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 1: it was a tumultuous time between pilot and series and god,

817
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: the stress of that. But now that you're in it,

818
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: you know what, what do you think the things are

819
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: that you've discovered about your character? Are there things when

820
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: you when you get the next script for the next episode,

821
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: you really just feel like, God, I relate to this person.

822
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 2: I relate to a lot about this character. Actually, yeah,

823
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 2: I would say. I mean, there's so many pair of

824
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 2: in this show that are just so insane. I mean,

825
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: just I've told this story before as well. But one

826
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: example is that, you know, Heroes, which we've identified as

827
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 2: the kind of most significant job in terms of influencing

828
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 2: my career trajectory. The whole catalyst of Heroes is that

829
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: there's a solar eclipse, and that the solar eclipse awakens

830
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 2: people to this power within themselves and suddenly they realize

831
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: that they're you know, they're called to something much bigger,

832
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: and that's the whole origin of the story of Heroes

833
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 2: and which was on NBC. Right, So this is my first,

834
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: you know, return to NBC. In fifteen years, I did

835
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: another limited series for NBC in the middle there, but

836
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: like in terms of a series and now a series

837
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 2: that I am leading, I come back to the place

838
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: where it all began fifteen years later, and we started

839
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 2: filming Brilliant Minds on April eighth, which was the day

840
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: of the solar eclipse. Wow. So like these kinds of

841
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: through line, full circle moments for me cannot be ignored,

842
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 2: you know. And so there's a lot of those little

843
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 2: things in the writing of the show, Like, for example,

844
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 2: I mean a big thrust of the show is the

845
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: relationship between the character I play all Over Wolfe and

846
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: his mother played by Donna Murphy. And I had a

847
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 2: very complicated relationship with my own mother and the fact

848
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: that that is at the center of the show and

849
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: that I'm processing and working through all of this stuff

850
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 2: that you know, I can really deeply relate to. And

851
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 2: then on top of that, there's this episode in the

852
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 2: show where my character is obsessed with ferns and plant

853
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: life as Oliver Sacks in real life was as well.

854
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 2: And so there's an episode where he's trying to bring

855
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: this fern back to life and he's carrying it into

856
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: the hospital and everybody's sort of talking about it, and

857
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 2: he says, well, this is and his name he names

858
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: his plants, and Michael Gressie could never have known this.

859
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 2: But when I was a child, I had an imaginary friend.

860
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: And my imaginary friend's name is Longo, and Longo I

861
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 2: would blame sometimes for things that if like my mom

862
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 2: found something like who ate all this, you know, candy

863
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 2: or something, I'd be like, well, anggo did it? You know?

864
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 2: I would like have this kind of relationship where I

865
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: would try to implicate him as the fall guye for

866
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 2: things that I did wrong. And my mother, to her

867
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: great creative credit, combated that tendency in me by creating

868
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 2: her own imaginary friend who was Longo's mother. So my

869
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: mother then said, well, I just talked to Longo's mother,

870
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 2: and so she created this whole kind of network of

871
00:57:55,080 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 2: like accountability basically within this fantasy of my childhood. Those

872
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: mother's name was Gertrude, and so whenever I'd be like

873
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 2: a long ago did it she'd be like, well, I

874
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 2: just looked to Gertrude, and Gertrude told me that that's

875
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: not true, you know, So it was this kind of Also,

876
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: Gertrude would factory in other ways, Like it wasn't always

877
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 2: just to kind of like hold me accountable. But however,

878
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: when I read this script for the show, this one

879
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: episode where I'm carrying this front around tonight, and I

880
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: walk in and all my interns are standing there look

881
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 2: at me, and they're like, what's that. And I'm like, oh, well,

882
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: this is Gertrude, this is my firm. So just like

883
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: these little little easter eggs, you know, these little things

884
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: that are like oh wow, Like I can relate to

885
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: this character on levels that no audience member would ever

886
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: know about or need to know about. But my connection

887
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: to the character is informed so much more richly and

888
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 2: deeply because of that memory that I have about my

889
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: own mother, which then informs the relationship that my character

890
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 2: has with his mother on the show. So those kinds

891
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 2: of things, I mean, that's just one example of dozens

892
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: of examples where it feels like the nature of this

893
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 2: work and the nature the show and what Michael is writing,

894
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 2: what I am at this point in my life meant

895
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: to be exploring as an actor. Yes, are just all

896
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 2: there for the picking if I'm looking for them and

897
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: if I'm tuned into them, and that kind of attunement

898
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: is the very thing that my meditation practice has encouraged

899
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 2: me and taught me how to cultivate and nurture and

900
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: amplify in my own life. So I'm much more tuned

901
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: to that than I would have been if I haven't

902
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: been on this journey of meditation.

903
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: Just the sort of concentric circles of it all, it's

904
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: so beautiful.

905
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really.

906
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's undeniable. When you can feel that sort of sparkle,

907
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: you know there's something really to it. Oh, I just

908
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: love it so much. What then, you know, it seems

909
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: like sounds like you are in such a beautiful place personally,

910
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: But when you kind of look at the landscape of

911
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: your life, maybe what you think about for the next year,

912
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: what feels like you're work in progress.

913
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 2: We last of last Wednesday, it all became a work

914
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 2: in progress for all of us. So I think a

915
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 2: lot remains to be seen with regard to what this

916
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: country is going to look like in a few months

917
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: to me, meditation has never been more important than it

918
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 2: is right now. I'm certainly really doubling down on that

919
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 2: aspect of my life. I'm always a work in progress.

920
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I just feel like life is being a

921
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 2: work in progress. Life is when I look at the

922
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 2: older people in my life now that I'm sort of

923
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: in the midpoint ish, you know, and I look at

924
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 2: the people who are closer to the end. It's the

925
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 2: people that I can say moved through their experience of

926
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: life with curiosity, with openness, with compassion both for themselves

927
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: and for others, with clarity of who they are, and

928
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 2: confidence in expressing who they are and never allowing circumstance

929
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 2: to define who they are. Those are the people that,

930
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: in their seventies and eighties and nineties, I say, that's

931
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 2: the kind of life that I want to live. And

932
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 2: so then I say, well, what do they all have

933
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 2: in common? It's those people who are still vital, who

934
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 2: are still mobile, who are still engaged in the world.

935
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 2: Who are you know, atrophied or you know, crypt up

936
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: or you know haunched over. You know, it's like the

937
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: people who stop it's the people who stop caring. It's

938
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 2: the people who stop learning. It's the people who stop

939
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: thinking and feeling. Those are the people who start to

940
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: I think kind of, and of course, anything can happen.

941
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 2: You know. I'm grateful and blessed every day that I'm

942
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: healthy and that i'm you know, vital in the world.

943
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 2: We never know when that could change for any of us.

944
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: But for as long as I am vital and able

945
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 2: bodied and connected, my goal is to allow that to

946
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 2: be my guiding principle and see how far it gets me,

947
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 2: because those are the people in my life who have

948
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: gotten the farthest, who are now you know, in their

949
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: late seventies, eighties, and nineties, who still find joy in

950
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 2: everything that they experience, or at least most of what

951
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: they experience, and when they don't find joy, they find compassion.

952
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: I love that, Oh I love it. I just adore you.

953
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for this.

954
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 2: Astorre you too. I'm so glad to see you. I'm

955
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 2: so grateful we got to do this, and I know

956
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 2: that these are troubling times. These are uncertain times, and

957
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 2: I think to show up for one another and to

958
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 2: show up with one another is really all we can

959
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: ask for. So I appreciate you asking me to show

960
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: up and I'm glad I did. I can't wait to

961
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: see you again soon.