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Speaker 1: On the bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the bel Cast, a podcast after

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Speaker 1: five years releases It's four million episode, but the twist

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Speaker 1: this time it's about the weirdest ship I've ever seen

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Speaker 1: in my life? Would you like to know more? Honestly?

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Speaker 1: Based on that? Um? No, I'm good, okay, exactly exactly

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Speaker 1: if only we had known. Welcome to the Bextel Cast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Gammie Lad, I'm Caitlin Darante and this is our

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Speaker 1: podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,

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Speaker 1: using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point. Simply, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I would like to know more? What is the Actel test?

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Speaker 1: The Bechtel test is a media metric invented by Weir

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test. Would

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Speaker 1: you like to know more? I guess please? For our purposes,

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel test requires that two characters of a marginalized

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Speaker 1: gender with names speak to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than men I honestly, I am not sure if it

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Speaker 1: happens in this movie or not. So confused was I

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Speaker 1: by the movie? Would you like to know more? Uh? No,

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Speaker 1: I'm good for now. Okay, well, Jamie, you're a natural

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Speaker 1: at that. Yeah, I'm a I'm a natural propagandists. Good

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Speaker 1: to know? Which is good to know? I okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: uh this is this is going to pass the Bechtel test.

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Speaker 1: Did you notice that there's a golden girl in Starship Troopers?

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Speaker 1: I didn't notice until it was pointed out to me

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Speaker 1: by this video essay that send me the link to,

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Speaker 1: which was I found very helpful. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I didn't notice because, like, I think the

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Speaker 1: makeup department makes her face looks somewhat disfigured or something,

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Speaker 1: and then she's also wearing these like goggli I believe

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Speaker 1: this is Yeah. I I wasn't sure if we were

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Speaker 1: supposed to think her character was blind. I wasn't totally sure.

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Speaker 1: I think that that might have been the implication. But

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Speaker 1: either way, Rue McClanahan is in the damn movie playing

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Speaker 1: a mean science teacher who's like, dissect this bug, like

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Speaker 1: I mean that in a good woman in Stem though

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Speaker 1: a woman. There's okay, there's a lot of this. This

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Speaker 1: episode is like the case against women in stem Uh

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Speaker 1: when it's used for fascism. So yeah, this is the

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Speaker 1: Starship Troopers episode of the Bechtel Cast, and um, listen,

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Speaker 1: bear with us because we were not expecting this movie. No,

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Speaker 1: we weren't excited to discuss. So let's introduce our guest.

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Speaker 1: He is an actor, a comedian. You know him from

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Speaker 1: Astronomy Club on Netflix and as the co host of

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Speaker 1: the podcast Black Men Can't Jump in Hollywood. It's Jonathan Braylock.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. It's exciting. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for being here. Thank you for bringing up this terrifying movie.

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Speaker 1: It was on your list, so it seems like you

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Speaker 1: guys it was. Yes, it feels kind of random, But

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Speaker 1: we've gotten this request a bunch of times, and now

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Speaker 1: I I now, having seen it, I understand why. Even

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Speaker 1: less I was gonna say, why why have you gotten

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Speaker 1: the requests? I wonder if I have a I guess,

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Speaker 1: I guess I have a couple of theories. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: literally every movie ever made, including dozens we've never heard of,

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Speaker 1: we've gotten requests for. But this one came up enough

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Speaker 1: that we like, like we like added it to a

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Speaker 1: list and everything. So I people who have requested this movie,

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Speaker 1: I did demand an explanation. Jonathan, what's your history with

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Speaker 1: with this movie? Well? It's interesting because, like I've said

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Speaker 1: this on my podcast, but like when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really allowed to watch rated our movies for

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Speaker 1: a while, and so like any time I saw what

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Speaker 1: it was either like a TV version of it, which

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Speaker 1: is like edited down but still kind of pretty graphic,

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Speaker 1: like verbal cop comes to mind and that kind of sense.

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Speaker 1: Same director, Yeah, exactly, like just hyper violent. But I

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Speaker 1: was super into sci fi, so I always wanted to

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Speaker 1: watch this movie, and I think I wasn't allowed to

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Speaker 1: when it had come out, But then I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. At some point in high school I was

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Speaker 1: able to like watch it, and I was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: I was like, what is I was like just kind

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Speaker 1: of confused because it was because I wanted to watch

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Speaker 1: like a you know, just a regular sci fi like

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Speaker 1: Star I thought like I was going to get into

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Speaker 1: like some Star Wars kind of thing, and this is

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Speaker 1: this movie is very much not that um but it

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Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something there was something about it

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Speaker 1: that always stuck with me about how like it felt

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Speaker 1: like the movie was kind of like making fun of

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Speaker 1: what the movie itself was to a degree, but also

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Speaker 1: but was still being that kind of movie. And so

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I just it's I wanted to rewatch

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Speaker 1: it because I was like, I wonder how that holds up,

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Speaker 1: Like I wonder if it was saying more than I

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Speaker 1: caught at the time, or you know, was it like

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Speaker 1: being more subversive than you know, people gave it credit for.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it was, but

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Speaker 1: but I wanted I wanted to examine it for me,

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Speaker 1: still inconclusive of and like you brought up Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: like this movie is like if Star Wars was told

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of like the Empire. Yeah, just like

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Speaker 1: a very uninquisitive Empire story. Trooper just being like, yes,

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Speaker 1: seems like they have a great idea exactly, Um, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with it? Truly nothing like I had

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Speaker 1: seen other Paul Verhoeven movies like but by that I

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Speaker 1: mean Basic Instinct and Show Girls, which were his two

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Speaker 1: movies leading up to this. So I've never seen Robotop

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't really know this side of Paul Verhoeven. Sure,

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know it was a book until when

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Speaker 1: I mentioned we were covering this. They're like, you have

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Speaker 1: to read the book, which is the thing I hate

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Speaker 1: to hear the most. But I listened to the audio

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Speaker 1: book and I watched the movie, and both of them

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Speaker 1: are so fucking fascist and bizarre to me. Um, but

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Speaker 1: that's my that's my entire history. It started on Monday,

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Speaker 1: what about You, Kim Incredible? I had like volant. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to reread the book because I

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Speaker 1: had read the book in a class I took in

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Speaker 1: like a SCIE, a sci fi literature class I took

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Speaker 1: in college. It was like one of the required readings.

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Speaker 1: But I was a really bad student in that class.

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Speaker 1: And while I did like sort of read the books,

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Speaker 1: I also didn't entirely. I would like read the first

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Speaker 1: fifty pages, because we had to read a book every

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Speaker 1: week in that class, and I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know who has at the time, so I would like

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Speaker 1: read the first fifty pages and then usually like skim

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Speaker 1: the rest. And I think that's what I must have

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Speaker 1: done for this book, because I truly remembered nothing about it.

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Speaker 1: And then I also I thought I had seen this movie,

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Speaker 1: but as I was watching it, nothing about it was familiar.

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Speaker 1: So I think I just had one of those like

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Speaker 1: false memories of having seen it. So I also have

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Speaker 1: a very limited history with it. Um, I knew the

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Speaker 1: part of the history behind it. Of like, when it

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Speaker 1: first came out, critics were like, this movie sucks. It's

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Speaker 1: just a mess of like gratuitous graphic violence and uh,

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Speaker 1: weird themes and da da da da, and then and

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Speaker 1: then like kind of in retrospect, a bunch of critics

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, wait a minute, actually, this movie is

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Speaker 1: freaking a brilliant, awesome satire and if you don't notice that,

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Speaker 1: then your brain is bad there. And just like I like,

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Speaker 1: I love that cycle of like people think it sucks,

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Speaker 1: then they're like actually, and then they're like Galaxy brand,

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Speaker 1: They're like it's genius, and then three years later they're like, no, wait,

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Speaker 1: it does suck. It was We've come full circle, right, Um.

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Speaker 1: I think that like the way there's the framing, I like, okay,

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Speaker 1: the beginning, the beginning, like the propaganda framing, Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like that is as close to the like that

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Speaker 1: satirical framework, like those are the parts of the movie

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Speaker 1: that I like the best, but then all the plot

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Speaker 1: that happens between those seem to just be very unquestioning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very much just doing the story. Like when I

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Speaker 1: when I was starting it again, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, it is wow, look at this, like

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Speaker 1: this is really fun. Like the scenes where like the

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Speaker 1: guys like giving his gun to like children, and the

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Speaker 1: children like and like fighting over the gun, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: it's like pushing it to the edge. But then when

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Speaker 1: we actually like get into I mean, there are small

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Speaker 1: things dropped here and there, but for the most part,

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Speaker 1: the movie is just doing the thing that the movie

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Speaker 1: is always do, And it was made in an error

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Speaker 1: where people were literally making and consuming these movies at

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Speaker 1: such a high degree that it's like, how would anyone

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Speaker 1: know that you were even if you said it, which

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Speaker 1: I think he he explicitly said it, like in interviews

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Speaker 1: and stuff, but it was like nobody knows. Nobody, Like

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Speaker 1: the the general audience doesn't know or care. They're like

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Speaker 1: they've been watching movies like this all the time, and

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Speaker 1: Robot I don't. It's funny because like I I don't

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Speaker 1: know if he feels the same way about RoboCop, but

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Speaker 1: like RoboCop is also like extreme, extremely like pro police,

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Speaker 1: pro like very racist, like very like. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's what it like says. What it says

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Speaker 1: is terrible and if and if you're trying to say,

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Speaker 1: like no, well this is a commentary, it's tough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I find those arguments always a little tough. Paul Verhoven

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Speaker 1: is his quotes are like weird to the context for

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Speaker 1: this movie being made. Is like he the screenwriter. He's

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Speaker 1: working with the same screenwriter that he did RoboCop with

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Speaker 1: Ed new Meyer. Ed new Meyer loves the book Starship Troopers.

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Speaker 1: Paul Verhoeven hates the books Starship Troopers. This makes so

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Speaker 1: much sense. He literally says, I stopped after two chapters

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Speaker 1: because it was so boring. It is really a bad book.

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Speaker 1: I asked ed new Meyer to tell me the story

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Speaker 1: because I just couldn't read the thing. It's a very

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Speaker 1: right wing book. And he's right, But then, like, why

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Speaker 1: would he make this movie? It's so so strange. Um,

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Speaker 1: oh gosh, well should we Let's get into the recap

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Speaker 1: and then we'll go from there. Yeah, let's do it, Hi, listeners,

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Speaker 1: Just a quick note about the recap. The way our

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Speaker 1: recording schedules worked out, we had to record the recap

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Speaker 1: separately without our guest Jonathan. So if you're wondering, hey,

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Speaker 1: why isn't Jonathan saying anything during the recap, that's why. Okay,

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Speaker 1: enjoy Okay. So, Um, this movie is set in a

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Speaker 1: distant future where the people of Earth are at war

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Speaker 1: with an alien species known as bugs or arachnik a.

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Speaker 1: Definitely not communists, definitely not. Uh and okay, So in

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Speaker 1: this world, the only way to be um, a citizen

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Speaker 1: of the Federation, the Federation being this government that rules

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Speaker 1: it's Earth, and yeah, it's little like the military state, right, Um.

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Speaker 1: And the only way to become a citizen with voting

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Speaker 1: rights and all that kind of stuff is to serve

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Speaker 1: in the military a k a. The Federal Service. So

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Speaker 1: the movie opens on a military propaganda commercial which we've

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Speaker 1: already perfectly demonstrated you amazingly replicated, um, And this commercial

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Speaker 1: is about how it's awesome to join the Federal Service.

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Speaker 1: Then we cut to a battle scene where we see

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Speaker 1: the reality of kind of the situation and this war,

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Speaker 1: which is soldiers getting brutally killed by these aliens, which, again,

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Speaker 1: like those first few minutes of the movie, with this

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Speaker 1: like military propaganda commercial which glorifies war, Jack stupposed against

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Speaker 1: these scenes of graphic violence that show the reality and

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Speaker 1: the horror of war, makes it seem like, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: looks like some interesting satire is emerging here, but then

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Speaker 1: it just kind of stops and doesn't really go anywhere, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: Then we cut to one year earlier where we meet

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Speaker 1: some high school students. Johnny Rico is our hero. He's

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Speaker 1: played by Casper Van Dying. I'm not really sure to

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Speaker 1: what his name is. Fun fact, he was married to

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Speaker 1: an actress who was in the vow because she joined

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Speaker 1: that terrifying cult. Oh whoa, he's one degree removed from

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Speaker 1: a terrifying cult. Wow, Casper, that's and that's all I

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Speaker 1: have for context corner Um. His girlfriend is Carmen Ibanez.

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Speaker 1: That is Denise Richards. We also meet their classmate, Dizzy Flores.

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Speaker 1: She's played by Dina meyer Um, who is obviously interested

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Speaker 1: in Johnny romantically. Then we also meet carl A Neil

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Speaker 1: Patrick Harris in like full doogie mode in this movie,

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Speaker 1: Like he's like what if Doogie was a fascist and

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Speaker 1: this this is a question no one asked, but this

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Speaker 1: movie answers yes indeed, um. And they are all about

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Speaker 1: to graduate and they're all considering joining the federal Service.

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Speaker 1: They have a teacher, Mr. Ross Check I also don't

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Speaker 1: know how to say his name. He is teaching them

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Speaker 1: about how military violence is actually really good and cool

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Speaker 1: and necessary. Hell yeah. Then we see a football game

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Speaker 1: where Johnny and Dizzy are playing football and then also

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Speaker 1: sometimes doing gymnastics. I was like, what is that was

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Speaker 1: one of the Paul Verhoven little touches that I was like, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: why not? Yeah? Um. The reason I bring the football

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Speaker 1: game up is that this is where we meet a

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Speaker 1: guy from the opposing football team, Xander. He becomes important

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Speaker 1: later and he's trying to flirt with Carmen and it's

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Speaker 1: a whole thing. He's exhausting. I mean, everyone in this

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Speaker 1: movie is exhausting, but him especially Right then, the next day, Johnny, Carmen,

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Speaker 1: and Carl all join the Federal Service. Carmen will train

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Speaker 1: to be a pilot. Carl will be military intelligence because

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Speaker 1: by the way, he has psychic abilities, he can talk,

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Speaker 1: which he shows us by being like I know what

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Speaker 1: every card in the deck is. Also, I can talk

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Speaker 1: to my ferret. You're like, huh, okay, I guess that's

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Speaker 1: technically showing, not telling, is sure, Yeah, I guess that's planting.

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Speaker 1: That's a Checkov's ferret um or something perfect. And then

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Speaker 1: Johnny will be infantry. Johnny begins bootcamp with Sergeant Zim, who,

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Speaker 1: of course, is best known as being one of the

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Speaker 1: villains from Flubber. Yes, okay, I was. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I wonder who's going to bring up her first? Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the parallels between Um, what is the name

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Speaker 1: of this movie Stormship Troopers not storm troop Troopers. I'm gonna, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I need to do a disclaimer where I'm gonna accidentally

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Speaker 1: call this movie stormship Troopers because of Stormtroopers, even though

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Speaker 1: it's called Starship Troopers. I mean, this movie. My first

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Speaker 1: note for this is literally like Starship Troopers is if

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Speaker 1: there was a biopic made of a stormtrooper who never

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Speaker 1: questioned the military and viewed the rebellion as literal cockroaches

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Speaker 1: Like there, yeah, fascism. Okay. Anyway, so Sergeant Zim, um

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Speaker 1: Dizzy shows up to boot camp. She had requested to

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Speaker 1: be transferred to this particular unit, probably because of how

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Speaker 1: in love she is with Johnny Rico. Gary A. Bussey's

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Speaker 1: son is also there, which is once you know it's

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Speaker 1: Gary A. Bussey's son, You're like, WHOA, that's really Gary Son,

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Speaker 1: I know h. And he's playing he's playing the violin.

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Speaker 1: He's That was another thing where just so much of

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Speaker 1: this movie is so ridiculous as it watches over you

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Speaker 1: that you're like, yeah, Gary Abussey's son is here. There

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Speaker 1: was already a golden girl. I guess we just like

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Speaker 1: jumped the shark immediately right. His name is Ace. Boot

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Speaker 1: Camp is tough, but Johnny shows promise and eventually he

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Speaker 1: has made squad leader. Meanwhile, we see Carmen learning to

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Speaker 1: be a pilot. She crosses paths with Stander again. Then

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Speaker 1: Carmen sends a message, a video message, breaking up with Johnny,

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Speaker 1: and shortly after that, Johnny is relieved of squad leader

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Speaker 1: duty after the of a teammate, which was his fault.

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Speaker 1: So he quits the military and he's about to go

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Speaker 1: back home, but just then war breaks out. When bugs attack,

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Speaker 1: they like throw a meteor at earth. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it was supposed to be funny when he's skyping

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Speaker 1: his parents and they're like, come home, we love you.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, what's going on? And then it goes boop boop.

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, like there's so much of this movie.

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Speaker 1: They're like, was that supposed to be campy or is

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Speaker 1: that just Paul Verhoeven trying to be serious? Well that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Like a lot of people will be like,

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Speaker 1: this movie is brilliant satire and it's so hilarious, and

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Speaker 1: then I'm over here being like shrug. I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: think that that it definitely wants to be a brilliant satire,

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Speaker 1: but you know, kind of like I'm not totally sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm not convinced. Um So, because of the war that

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Speaker 1: has just broken up, Johnny Rico's like, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: join back up, So he and other troops are are deployed,

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Speaker 1: but the battle goes horribly wrong. They underestimate the bugs.

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Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of troopers are killed in action, Johnny

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Speaker 1: is badly wounded, uh and Carmen thinks that he's dead

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Speaker 1: and she's all sad about it. So then the military

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Speaker 1: has to reevaluate their battle plan and the teacher Mr.

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Speaker 1: Razcheck shows up and he's like, by the way, I'm

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Speaker 1: a lieutenant. Were like okay, um, and then let's see

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Speaker 1: Johnny's injury gets fixed via sci fi science. That was

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Speaker 1: kind of fun. He's in like a goop a goop

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Speaker 1: tank and then they're like, okay, you're good to go. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then they go back into battle and have a few

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Speaker 1: successful missions where they kill a lot of bugs. Raz

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Speaker 1: Check promotes Johnny. Johnny and Dizzy kiss and have sex

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Speaker 1: and things really seem to be looking up. And guess

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Speaker 1: who loves that they're having sex? Mr raz Check for

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Speaker 1: some reason, He's take an extra ten minutes to have

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Speaker 1: sex with each other. I'm like, um, you were my

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Speaker 1: history teacher at Growth, right. Um. So then they go

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Speaker 1: out on another mission to Planet P and things go

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Speaker 1: horribly wrong and they start to figure out that there

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Speaker 1: must be like a brain bug that is controlling the

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Speaker 1: other bugs and making intelligent choices and setting traps and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Oh also, we should say, I mean

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Speaker 1: it goes without saying that because this is a sci

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Speaker 1: fi movie made by a man, that the and the

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Speaker 1: monsters are vaginal, especially this brain bug which we are

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Speaker 1: about to see. I kind of was like back I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know what evil brain pussy? Sure, you know iconic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So they learned about the brain Bug and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of soldiers are killed, including roz Check and Dizzy. So

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Speaker 1: then Carmen and Xander fly into rescue them, and Carmen

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Speaker 1: is like, oh my god, Johnny, I thought you were dead,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, uh no, surprised, surprise, And then Neil

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Speaker 1: Patrick Harris comes back dressed as a full Nazi. Was

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Speaker 1: not prepared, Neil Patrick Harris to become a full Nazi,

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Speaker 1: nor was I. And he's like, by the way, you

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Speaker 1: have to go back to Planet P and kill the

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Speaker 1: brain Bug Johnny Rico, who is now a lieutenant I

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Speaker 1: think because he had to kill his his his teacher um.

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Speaker 1: And Johnny's like cool, sounds good to me. So then

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Speaker 1: they go back in for one last battle. Meanwhile, Carmen

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Speaker 1: and Xander's starship has been like shot out of space

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Speaker 1: and then they crash land onto Planet P right into

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Speaker 1: the nest of the brain bug convenience. And the brain

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Speaker 1: Bug definitely is the most vagina ish vagina monster if

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Speaker 1: any movie I've ever seen that Yeah, yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: sucks out Xander's brain as vaginas do as vaginas do,

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Speaker 1: and it's about to do the same for Carmen, but

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Speaker 1: then Johnny and a couple other troopers show up and

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Speaker 1: save her, and then they capture the brain bug, and

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Speaker 1: then Neil Patrick Harris uses his psychic abilities to learn

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Speaker 1: that the bug is afraid, and then everyone cheers because

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Speaker 1: the bug is afraid. They're like, oh wow, we are

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Speaker 1: really gonna commit a lot of atrocities soon, like, and

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Speaker 1: that's basically the end of the movie, so shockingly, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we will come

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Speaker 1: right back and we're back. Can I give a quick

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Speaker 1: book recap, please, because I just need to justify the

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Speaker 1: time spent listening to the audiobook on one point five Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the book, the book, and the movie are both fashy,

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Speaker 1: but in kind of different ways. So I guess make

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Speaker 1: of that what you will. In the book, Um, there's

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Speaker 1: a whole like whitewashing discussion to be had about this

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Speaker 1: movie because in the book most of the main characters

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Speaker 1: are Filipino. Um, and I believe they live in Canada,

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Speaker 1: not Buenos Aires, even though Buenos Aires still does get

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Speaker 1: bugged in the book. I don't know but the but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's Um, it's Juan Rico and his father Emilio Rico.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the first huge difference. UM and as

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Speaker 1: well as like Carmen and Carl, they're all in point

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Speaker 1: to be Filipino characters that live in the same community

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Speaker 1: in Canada. There are class differences in the book, unlike

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Speaker 1: in the movie where Um they still call him. They

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Speaker 1: like americanized his name to Johnny midway through the book.

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Speaker 1: Once he's in the military, he's called Johnny. At home

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Speaker 1: he was called one UM. But once he gets to

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Speaker 1: boot camp, like he he grew up in a really

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Speaker 1: rich family. Uh, and Carl and Carmen grew up in

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Speaker 1: a lower class family, which which is implied why that's

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Speaker 1: why they're joining the military. So there's like more push

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Speaker 1: and pull there. There's like actual class stuff going on. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They did that a little bit, like you knew that

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Speaker 1: he was rich. And there was that scene in the

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Speaker 1: bat like the shower where they're all taking a shower

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Speaker 1: together U where they're like talking about why they why

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Speaker 1: they joined, and there is like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are like joined because they didn't have money or they

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Speaker 1: like were farmers or whatever. So like it was there

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Speaker 1: a little bit with him, but definitely not Carmen. They

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Speaker 1: didn't they didn't make it seem like Carmen didn't have

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Speaker 1: money in the movie. Yeah, and it seems like carl

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Speaker 1: was doing just fine because he's like in his like

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Speaker 1: science deck ster's lab basement or whatever. He's got a

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Speaker 1: pet ferret, you know, he's got like all the rich

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Speaker 1: people do. I'm sure, but yes, so there's that. But then,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the book does in the middle, uh take

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Speaker 1: a pretty hard right turn where it just sort of

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Speaker 1: starts through the teacher character just starts kind of spouting

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Speaker 1: right wing philosophy. Like there's just whole chapters that are

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Speaker 1: about how the like there's no such thing as life,

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Speaker 1: liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There is only loyalty

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Speaker 1: to the state. The most freedom you can get is

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Speaker 1: a willingness to die for the state. And it just

399
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Speaker 1: gets really hardcore. What what I The only thing I

400
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: think it really does better is the class stuff, and

401
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Speaker 1: like it's more of a coming of age story. Even

402
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Speaker 1: though it's like Juan Rico is coming of age into

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Speaker 1: a fascist super soldier, he at least undergoes some sort

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Speaker 1: of like change where I feel like in the movie

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Speaker 1: he's kind of just like there, he's like hot and

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Speaker 1: he's there, he likes he likes Carmen, he likes car

407
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Speaker 1: and oh yeah, Krmen is barely in in the book.

408
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Speaker 1: There's no love story in the book or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: That was like the whole thing for this movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess that that's we're saying, is there's all of

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Speaker 1: all of the sexes of that appears in the movie

412
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Speaker 1: is very of the movie. It's that in the book

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Speaker 1: at all. I would say that that's one of the

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Speaker 1: issues that the book actually like doesn't really super fumble,

415
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Speaker 1: but it's it's implying that it's this fashion that it's

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Speaker 1: this like militaristic utopia. That's why I think what the

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Speaker 1: author wants you to think, like because he was in

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Speaker 1: the military himself. He is actively pushing children reading this

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Speaker 1: book to go into the military, so he's like, the

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Speaker 1: military isn't sexist, the military isn't racist. We're all fighting

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Speaker 1: against the bugs, which is just communism. So it's very

422
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties like it was. It is it written as

423
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: like a dystopian world? Like is it written like a

424
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: nine four where it's like warning against this type of thing,

425
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: or do you does it? It feels like it's very

426
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: pro this it's full, it's it's full utopia to the

427
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: point where I was like reading of like it's so

428
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: fucking weird because you think that I just didn't see

429
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: that coming. Where like the more into fascism he gets,

430
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: the happier he becomes, and he becomes fully self actualized.

431
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: By the end in the book, his dad doesn't die.

432
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: His dad gives up his richie rich business and joins

433
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: the military with his son. And at the end they're like,

434
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: we're so happy, Like who wrote this book this? He's like,

435
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: I never like literally he's a former Nazi wrote this book. Unfortunately,

436
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: a US veteran who really got into it. It's really

437
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: fucking weird, Like I it's and and I guess even

438
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: in its time, people like this is right wing like

439
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: man of Propaganda. Yeah, because it it is. But it

440
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: was also one of the most like successful, influential like

441
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: sci fi books of its time. There were a lot

442
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: of like posts and stuff I found about like, oh,

443
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: when I first read this, it maybe want to join

444
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: the military because that's literally like what it is supposed

445
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: to You're it's supposed to make you want to just

446
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: die for the state and view your enemy as just

447
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: a lifeless evil husk Uh. So it's a fucked up book. Uh.

448
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: And Carmen and and Dizzy. The name Dizzy has brought

449
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: up literally once in the first chapter. She doesn't go

450
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: to school with them. She's not a character that exists

451
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: in this world. She's just one of his like squad

452
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: friends who's killed at the beginning. And so there's no

453
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: love triangle, none of that ship. It's just truly all

454
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: right wing ideology, um and a child being radicalized. So

455
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: that's the book I read. The author, Robert A. Hind Line,

456
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: wrote this book in response to right Um wrote this

457
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: book in response to him being mad that the US

458
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: was suspending nuclear testing. He's like, no, we should be

459
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: blowing and shut up and you know, having nuclear bombs

460
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: dropping all over the place all the time. He loves war,

461
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: the more casualties better. Looking him up on Wikipedia, he's

462
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: six generation German American. Look, I'm not saying that all

463
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: Germans are Nazis, but this guy wrote a fascism. He

464
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: wrote a famous fashio. I don't know, I don't know.

465
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: It's so yeah, it's it's fun. Like the book is

466
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: fucking scary because it's like it does start to pull

467
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: you in of like, well, it's a coming of age story,

468
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: and then in like a third of the way through,

469
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: it's like, fuck you is scarier sh it you'll ever read.

470
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: There is something interesting about because he's I think this

471
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: guy's like this is very anti communist. But there's a

472
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: similar way in the movie does this, and I'm guessing

473
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: the book does something similar where they at some point

474
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: where they're talking about the bugs, they're like kind of

475
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't like idealizing them. They're like, oh, there's like

476
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: they're actually I don't know. They they don't have fear,

477
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: they follow orders, they do this, they do that, and

478
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: like there is this way in which like fascist, very

479
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: right wing even though they're like against left wing, they like,

480
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: you know, they they actually like dream about like wow,

481
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: could you imagine having that much power where you know,

482
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: people would just conform to the state and do this

483
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 1: and do that, like for the good And you're just like,

484
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: so you're the same thing. You're the thing that you

485
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: think that you think you're fighting against, Like that's what

486
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: you want to be, Like what it's it's such a

487
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: mindful It's like that does up and in the book

488
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: as well, and it's like it's such a mind funk

489
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: because when you're listening to it, you're like, this sounds

490
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: like brainwashing. This sounds really bad. But the book is like,

491
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: and isn't this amazing that we've shaped this young man

492
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: to think this way? But it is. Yeah, it's like, uh,

493
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: as he spends more time in boot camp, and the

494
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: boot camp thing is very different in the book. I

495
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: won't even get into it because it's like more fucked

496
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: up and worse. But uh, they're just like slowly it's

497
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: worse there. It's yeah, I don't don't read the book,

498
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: but the they they're just slowly sort of like encouraging

499
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: him too and everyone to you know, not view the bugs.

500
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Individuals view them as this mass organized and it just

501
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: encouraged to like the soldiers, to view them as beings

502
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: that do not have emotions, and so you will feel

503
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: less bad about murdering them, like and in the I

504
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: feel like the movie and the book you find out

505
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: really nothing about like the bugs, what their goal is, like,

506
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: what they're defending against, just so you don't feel bad

507
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: about watching Johnny Rico kill them even the like even

508
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: though they have all this intelligence and like you know,

509
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: weapons and this kind of things like that, like whenever,

510
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: like every planet that they're on looks like completely lifeless.

511
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: They're like even though even when they go underground, it's

512
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: like they're just like living in tunnels, like they're just

513
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of doing this thing of like yeah, they just

514
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: all they do is reproduce and spread and they and

515
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: they're trying to kill us and that's it, Like that's

516
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: all they are, just like this living organism. That's all

517
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: it's trying to do is like spread and destroy. But again,

518
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: there's a reflection to us that could happen here, you know,

519
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: in that. But the movie as subversive as people want

520
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: this movie to be, and like, yes, there there are

521
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: certain things where they're clearly like poking fun. The movie

522
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: never actually goes there, Like it never actually goes there

523
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: because you could do that, but nobody had no None

524
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: of these characters have any real realization that's happening. At

525
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: the end, they're all you victorious, just cheering literally look

526
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: at how much of a hero we all are, And

527
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: it's encouraging the audience to fascist Doogie is so scary. Um. Oh,

528
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: also that is a that's a that's a big change

529
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: from the book. Carl is uh not psychic and is

530
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: not uh not, No, there's no there's no psychic through line. Unfortunately,

531
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: Carl dies about two seconds into the book, like they

532
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: all enlist at the same time. Johnny Johnny enlist because

533
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: he wants to prove that he's more than just a

534
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: rich kid, which is like exhausting, but he doesn't enlist

535
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: because of Carmen, and then uh, Carl dies almost right

536
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: away and Carmen disappears until the very end of the book. Wow.

537
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: Going back to the bug thing really quick, there's like

538
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: a very brief suggestion in the movie that humans have

539
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: been basically just call alonizing all of the like outer

540
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: reaches of this entire galaxy, and then they came upon

541
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: this like species of aliens and they didn't like to

542
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: be colonized, and then they fought back. And now that

543
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: that's sort of like what instigated this entire war where

544
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: the humans are like genociding these aliens, but it's just

545
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: because of the humans being colonizers, and like there's just

546
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: like a sliver of that in the movie. It's like

547
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: you could do something with that, but then they're like, no,

548
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: they're not gonna do anything. It's truly a sliver. There's

549
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: one person who there's like a report, like a nameless

550
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: reporter who's like some would say that the humans are

551
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: actually the ones that provoke the attack, and they're like

552
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: shut up. And then and then you're like you're like

553
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: like that's funny, but when you don't actually do any

554
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: of that, it's like, um, I don't know if you've

555
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: guys noticed this, but like there are times where, like

556
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: especially now, where like shows like pretend to be woke

557
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: by like adding a line in Like I remember reading

558
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: this pilot where it was like it was a space

559
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: kind of start, not Star Trek, but like something like that. Um,

560
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: and the captain of the of the ship becomes like

561
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: this dude who's like not as smart and like they're

562
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: they're like jokes made about how he's not as smart

563
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: as like the woman he passes up or like the

564
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: other people, but it's like he still becomes the captain

565
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, so you guys pretend you're

566
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: being woke by by like being like yeah with like

567
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: man the like how did you become captain usually women

568
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: are captains, and I'm like, okay, but this show is

569
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: going to be in our universe with a male, white

570
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: male lead, So what do we So you're not actually

571
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: doing the thing that you're you're commenting on, like you

572
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: just assuming that by stating that, it's like we know

573
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: we're doing it again and do it anyway. It reminds

574
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: me of the Last Avengers movie when there's that moment

575
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: where like all the women superheroes that they've only just

576
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: introduced him to the universe within the past like two years.

577
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: We're like, wow, look at them, they're all walking together

578
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: and just like feminism, right, women's like danting next to

579
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, right, yeah, this this movie does because

580
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: it's like I feel like, at the end of the day,

581
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: if if the movie is at no point that I

582
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: feel like the movie was having you question Johnny ricas

583
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: like motivations, question his journey or like root against him

584
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: in any way, So it's like, well, then is it

585
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: really saying anything if the whole journey is Johnny getting

586
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: like really lost in the fascism sauce, and we're just

587
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: supposed to be like really rooting for him the whole time,

588
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: Like you're never supposed to be rooting against him or

589
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: the Earthlings. So if you had died, right, I can't.

590
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: I wish he had died. I wish he had died,

591
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: or there was like just some sort of like yeah,

592
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: the movie to me feels completely void of like commentary

593
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: and like, yes, there are these ends of satire with

594
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: like the propaganda commercials that are being sprinkled throughout, but

595
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: it feels like what you're saying, Jonathan, it feels like

596
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: like the closest they get to be like, isn't this

597
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: fucked up? But then just doing the fucked up thing. Yeah,

598
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: I read the director Paul Verhoeven said that his intent

599
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: with this movie because again everyone wants to you know,

600
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: lots of people are like, but it's brilliant satire. So

601
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: Paul ever Hooven was like, well, my intent here was

602
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: to seduce the audience into rooting for these fascist characters

603
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: using the same military propaganda that like the Third Reich

604
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: was using for propaganda. And then also his intent was

605
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: to chaw lenge the audience too, kind of consider, Okay,

606
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: why are we rooting for fascism? That's an interesting idea.

607
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: I just don't think he pulls it off, it's not

608
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: executed well. And I didn't see that intent until he

609
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: explained it to me personally. So it's like, then you're

610
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: not if you're that's not effective satire. Think, Yeah, the

611
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: reason that it's not affective to me in the slightest

612
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: is that one we don't. First of all, the reason

613
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: that the book uses bugs as the enemy is because

614
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: as human beings, we do have like in an a

615
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: kind of we're like we look at insects as like

616
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: they're gross, and we don't feel like people, even people

617
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: who love animals, you know, will be quicker to kill

618
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: a roach or an aunt, you know, or be than

619
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: they would and maybe not bees anymore, just because now

620
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: we know their environmental impact. But but like, but you

621
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like we're quicker to kill insects

622
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: than we are any other really any other kind of

623
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: animal species. So so we're watching this movie and we

624
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: don't feel anything for the bugs, Like nobody, you're you're

625
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: not you're not thinking at all, like, oh, that bug

626
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: had a family, or what if that bug was just

627
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: like what if that bug is a civilian that's just

628
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: like trying to live its life, Like it's it's so

629
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: hard to like get there, and there are sci fi

630
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: books that actually kind of make you think that. I mean,

631
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: Enders Game is supposed to be that kind of book too.

632
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever read Enders Game.

633
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: Not from high school. I saw the movie though, but

634
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: that was a similar thing where they're like training these

635
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: like child soldiers to like kill things and like the

636
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: bugs are the enemy, and then like at the end,

637
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: he realizes, like he that this wasn't a trading mission,

638
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: that it was the actual thing, and he's like wiped

639
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: out in the whole planet of of bugs and he's

640
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: like and the kid kind of feels like, wait a minute,

641
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: what did I just do? But it's also one of

642
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: those things where it's even that like it's it doesn't

643
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: go far enough, because people who look at the Nazis

644
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: who are bad, like as bad guys, like people who

645
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: sympathize with like fascism will also you know, use the

646
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 1: Nazis as like some symbol of like, yeah, those guys

647
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: like the Nazis are bad, you know, but our brand

648
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: of fascism is good, you know, which is what this

649
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: movie is. You know. It's like, yeah, I don't know,

650
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know how anyone who wasn't who

651
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: didn't already know the things that he's like trying to

652
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: point out, is going to come to that realization themselves. Yeah,

653
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: it's like Paul Verhoeven, it just seems ill equipped to

654
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: do what he says he's trying to do. And he's

655
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: also just chosen like if he wants to make an

656
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: anti fascist statement like this is not the book to

657
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: adapt into a really expensive movie, like it's a fascist book,

658
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: so using a using a screenwriter who likes the fascist book,

659
00:40:54,360 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: right if you yeah, it's it's it's pretty wild. The

660
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: other thing that's like, Yeah, the other thing that's annoying

661
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: is that I actually do think there was a chance

662
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: in here to do something like like if you do

663
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: have like these characters just like be like smiling over

664
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: just like the most horrendous stuff. But like at the

665
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: end of the day, Rico gets to stay alive, he

666
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: gets the save the girl. Like he's failed upwards so

667
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: many times that he's now a lieutenant just through his

668
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: history teacher. He's like experiencing a history teacher nepotism. Yeah,

669
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: his his history teacher who told him to come in

670
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: is like is the other hero, all the things that

671
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: like the all the people who are against him, like

672
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: his parents who are against them joining the military. They

673
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: they get wiped out. And then motivation for him to

674
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: stay there. You know, the girl that he is friends

675
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: with but he doesn't really like. She winds up dying

676
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: for her only purpose was for her to be with him.

677
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: Dying words are at least I got to be with you.

678
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: And then and then he gets and then the and

679
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: then the guy who stole his girl he dies too,

680
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: So like everything's a okay for this dude. This dude

681
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: is living the life. So how are we supposed to

682
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: ever think that this movie is saying anything bad about this?

683
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: It's I feel like it's especially like the Johnny Rico,

684
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: Like he's just his last name is Rico. It's ridiculous,

685
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: Like and then and then but like in the movie

686
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: that I found like Carl to be more frustrating than

687
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: anyone else. He literally becomes like a Nazi psychic doctor

688
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: and at the end he gets like that. I was like,

689
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: how did Carl not die or experience any sort of

690
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: like like you just see like these high school kids

691
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: getting radicalized. And then the movie ends like and so

692
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: like there's You're never supposed to be like was that good?

693
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: Like were we supposed to feel good about that? As

694
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: it's just assumed that you want, like you hate the bugs.

695
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: We know nothing about them. They all look like vagina

696
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: monsters like every sci fi movie from this era, like

697
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: and that's and that's it. I don't know. Yeah, I

698
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: as much as I appreciate the in between segments of

699
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: like would you like to know more? But it's like,

700
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: literally I would Paul Verhoeven I put that in the story. Um. Yeah,

701
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: there's one point that I kind of the one Paul

702
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: Verhoeven quote that I was like, that's kind of interesting

703
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: because I don't know, he's like he is a guy

704
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: who just loves when anyone is naked right like, and

705
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to have sex. I mean that's just

706
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: basic ast thing that off the basic inst thing. I'm like,

707
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: what do you think sex is? Like? What is such

708
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: a weird man? The one quote that because there is

709
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: like that cod shower scene that is pretty important to

710
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: like understanding the world, and I feel like it's like

711
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: one of the only scenes that I felt like got

712
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: close to saying something and then ultimately didn't because it

713
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: was just basically explaining, like like what a barrier not

714
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: serving in the military would be to like achieving any

715
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: dream you'd have, whether you want to be a parent

716
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: or a politician or a writer, or like, you have

717
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: to serve in order to just like live somewhat autonomously.

718
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: So it's a helpful scene to include they're all naked,

719
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: which is very Paul Verhoven Like, I don't know. I

720
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: guess I wasn't like particularly bothered because everyone was more

721
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,959
Speaker 1: or less framed in a similar way, But I liked

722
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: so Pulver I guess that that was the scene that

723
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: he had the most difficulty getting through, not the five

724
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: trillion gory brutal deaths um not people being ripped limb

725
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: from limb, not someone's brain getting literally sucked out of

726
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: their head. He's like, so this is okay. I'll give

727
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: you the quote, and then I'll give you the context

728
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: because it's a fun twist. So he says this quote

729
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: about that kind of editing struggle. He said, uh, because

730
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: he's Dutch. He says, Americans get more upset about nudity

731
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: than ultra violence. I am constantly amazed about that. I mean,

732
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any sex scenes in American film that

733
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: are anything other than completely boring. A bare breast is

734
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: more difficult to get through the sensors than a body

735
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: riddled with bullets. I think that's a very valid point, right,

736
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: Like that's and and and I feel like the nudity

737
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: of this movie, at least compared to other movies of

738
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: its time, I didn't think it was like particularly, I mean,

739
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: it didn't need to be there, but it felt like

740
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: gender was. It was just like, I guess we're all

741
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: naked in this scene. I wasn't super bothered by it,

742
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: but okay, but the twist in this scene, um is

743
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: that So apparently they he was having trouble even getting

744
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: permission to shoot the scene, and then the cast. It

745
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: says on scholarly journal Wikipedia, the cast agreed to do

746
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: the co ed shower scene only if Verhoeven agreed to

747
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: direct the scene naked, which he did so respect which

748
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: which is like, I can't imagine a world in which

749
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: having Paul Verhoeven naked would make me more comfortable. But

750
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 1: that was that was what the cast said. And so

751
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: that was how he got the topless scene through was

752
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: by being also topless. I mean, there is something about

753
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: that like you you're in this with us, you know,

754
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: kind of thing, like we're all going to share in

755
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: this like experience that could feel embarrassing. Yeah, so you know, Paul,

756
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: he was, he was, you know, at least willing to participate.

757
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: It's like the more sexual version of when Greta Growing

758
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: wore the prom dress during the Ladybird Prom scene. Right.

759
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, this scene felt to me like gratuitous nudity,

760
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: especially because most of the new ditty you see is

761
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: women's breasts, and it just felt to me like an

762
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: excuse to show some titties. And I just wasn't sure

763
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: why it was happening. But I don't know, maybe that's

764
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: just me being a puritan. I disagree on this specific scene.

765
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like that all the bodies

766
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: in this scene, especially when you compare it to other

767
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: like I always think of like the shower scene that

768
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: opens carry exactly. I was thinking the same thing like

769
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: that is that's so it's so predatory too, because it's

770
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: like these are high school girls and there's no reason

771
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: for us to see this, like it doesn't add anything

772
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: to the movie, whereas this and it's like it's like

773
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: it's voyeuristic, right, Whereas this this, it's like they're all

774
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: taking a shower together and none of them are sexualizing it.

775
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: Like there's a way in which I can see I

776
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: can see or Hoban's like kind of thinking of like

777
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: we gotta just you guys, gotta calm down with like

778
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: how like both repressed and over sexualized you are in

779
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: your society and one of the wait one of the

780
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: ways to do that instead of like seeing nudity in

781
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: like some sexual context, it's like we're all just like

782
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: everyone's showers. They're all showering together, no one's making comments

783
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: on other people's body parts, and they're having actually like

784
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: a real conversation right there, talking about their hopes and

785
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: dreams topless. And I'm like, well, I guess that's as

786
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: close to enjoying this group of people as I'm going

787
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: to get. I mean, yeah, it's like I think that

788
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: it's a little bit different when it comes to that

789
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: like weird sex scene with uh with Johnny and Dizzy,

790
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 1: Like I think that I would argue as a little

791
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: more or do it is, But the shower scene I

792
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: was pretty unbothered by, I don't know, but also I

793
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: was reading that test the way that like, I don't know,

794
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: just I'm just like, wow, America is so fucking broken, right,

795
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: But like test audiences for this movie um did not

796
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: comments on the brutal violence at all. They were just

797
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 1: like I can't believe that people were topless. And then

798
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: they also felt like the original notes were that they

799
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: felt it was immoral for Carmen to choose a career

800
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: ahead of being loyal to Rika, and they wanted like

801
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: audiences wanted that change, not even Paul Verhoeven, and that

802
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: Carmen shouldn't immoral, and that Carmen should have died instead

803
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: of Dizzy because she made the sin of choosing a

804
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 1: career over some fucking guy. Uh And and I guess

805
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: that was like overwhelmingly they're like I hated that I

806
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: saw nudity, and you should have killed Denise Richards for

807
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: wanting a job. And you're like, oh my god, no,

808
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: you should have killed everyone for being a fascist. Like

809
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: we're missing the thing here. So I don't know. Yeah,

810
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: all all the sexism in this movie has been added,

811
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: but it seems like audiences wanted more. There was a

812
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: high demand for the female characters to be treated. Uh, worse.

813
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: That is absolutely wild. Well, let's take a quick break

814
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back for more discussion, and we're back.

815
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 1: Should we talk about these gals. Let's talk about the gals.

816
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: Should we start with Carmen? Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay.

817
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: Everyone in this movie is a bad actor, right, like

818
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: pretty much or like all the not Neil Patrick Harr.

819
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like, didn't okay, Denise Richards and

820
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: Casper Van question Mark are bad actors. But watching Denise

821
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: Richards pretend to steer a spaceship was like I was

822
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: losing it. It's so funny she's because she her eyes

823
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: are just kind of glazed and the eyeline doesn't quite

824
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: make sense, and then she just like pulls, like gently

825
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: pulls a little. I was like, I've seen Star Wars.

826
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: I think it's harder to drive this thing that you're

827
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: making it look I attend to. I think she was

828
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: maybe miscast for this role. But at the same time,

829
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: every time I love Denise Richards, but this movie gets

830
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: brought up, Everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's that movie that

831
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: like Denise Richards is in for some reason, and then

832
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: like people are like, I feel like unnecessarily cruel to her.

833
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: So then so then I'm like, I guess I kind

834
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: of feel bad for like dumping on her her performance

835
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: in this I'm just as happy to dump on almost

836
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: anyone in this movie. Gary Busey's sons, the lead of

837
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: this movie is like, I'm not getting anything from him.

838
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: He's just a blank slate. But but it is this

839
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,959
Speaker 1: weird thing where it felt intentional for them to be

840
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: like these like very young, conventionally attractive, very very wide,

841
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,240
Speaker 1: very arian, like like, oh you know here, these are

842
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: these are the the men and woman we put on

843
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: our our poster board, you know, for for Nazi Germany. UM.

844
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: And I was like, I was kind of like, I

845
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: kind of like, didn't I don't know the acting. I

846
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: didn't like it didn't necessarily pull me out because of

847
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: what I was watching, you know what I mean. Like

848
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: they're like, it wasn't like there was something. I guess

849
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: that's two fold that I didn't feel like the script

850
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: was giving anything deeper. But I also realized that better

851
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: actors probably could have done something that the script wasn't doing,

852
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: and that even the director maybe didn't wasn't even trying

853
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: to do um and make these characters feel more you know,

854
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: three dimensional, but they were. It was very two men

855
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: and most of these, I mean most of the main

856
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: quote unquote teen actually thirty year old cast, Like most

857
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: of them are nineties TV stars, So they were just

858
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: like people who were on TV at the time, because

859
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: like Neil Patrick Harris was Doogie Houser, Dina Meyer was

860
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: on like Beverly Hills nine O two one, Oh Didn't

861
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: Richards was one. Like these were all just kind of

862
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 1: like teen soap stars that were put in this movie

863
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: about militaristic fascism. So I don't really understand the expectation

864
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: for any of them to thrive in this environment. That said,

865
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 1: Deniece Richard driving a spaceship. As far as her character

866
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 1: goes in general, I was not impressed with the way

867
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: that she was written, believe it or not, um because basically,

868
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: like so, it's the type of character who's like, Okay,

869
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: she's really smart, she's really good at what she does,

870
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: she's able to work her way up through the ranks,

871
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: but she like just has absolutely no dimension or like

872
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: nu once to her character, like she has no flaws,

873
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: she never makes any mistake. Her main journey is like

874
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: picking between two assholes. Like that's her journey. Well, I

875
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: guess our journey was to become a pilot, like and

876
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: then like by the end is a captain right like

877
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: her her her journey is is the career path and

878
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 1: then like this romance thing. It is funny. I will say, uh,

879
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: none of the female characters are written very well at all.

880
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: But I also don't think any of the male characters

881
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: are written well in this movie out, so there's like

882
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: a there's at least a parody in the in the

883
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: sense in the sense that they're all two dimensional characters

884
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: that said, like, it's still Rico, still the lead. Yeah,

885
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 1: I I think this is I don't know, like I

886
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: like that she's it feels like kind of like an

887
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 1: empty gesture of like she's an amazing pilot, which is like, okay,

888
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: that's great, but she kind of achieves her goal immediately,

889
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: like the first time she gets in the pilot seat

890
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: there like you're amazing at this, and that she just

891
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: continues to succeed at it um and her main thing

892
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: is like Zander versus Johnny, And it seems like I

893
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: like that she's the one to break up with Johnny,

894
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: Like it seems like she's being pretty realistic about everything.

895
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: She's like because she's bare into him at the beginning,

896
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: Like he has to keep reminding her that I love you,

897
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: do you love me at all? And she's like, I guess,

898
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: she's like, we're in high we're in high school, man,

899
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like chill, like we're high school boyfriend girfriend.

900
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: We're literally not going to know each other when we graduate.

901
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: She's just kind of being I appreciate that she's being

902
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: a realist about her high school relationship. And I was,

903
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I don't like dislike harmen. I

904
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: just like we know nothing about any of these kids, right,

905
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,439
Speaker 1: And also it is very jarring when all of their

906
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: families die and they don't really react. I got react barely.

907
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean there's yeah where she's like, you know, every

908
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: time I think about it, I'm crying, but like she's

909
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: not crying in that moment, and it doesn't seem like

910
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 1: she's actually that sad. Uh Anyways, like oh my god, Yeah,

911
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: their entire families die, which I feel like really gets

912
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: glazed over, which it's again it's just like, well, then

913
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: don't have them live there if you're not going to

914
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 1: have them react to their entire families dying. I don't know,

915
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: it's very straight, but yeah, it's like Kerman the most,

916
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: like we don't really know. She kind of achieves her

917
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: goal right away, and then it's just kind of like

918
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: she's I like that she's like present and there's definitely

919
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: she has her own storyline, but I don't know. It

920
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: was not very moved by the Zander versus Johnny Rico

921
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: uh decision. And she also didn't seem she seemed pretty

922
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: set on like what she wanted, so it wasn't even

923
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: really a struggle for her really at a point, right,

924
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: she was just like she was like, yeah, we're like

925
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to be in a career and you're in

926
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: the mobile infantry, like we're not going to see each other,

927
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: so blah blah. And then he gets upset because he

928
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: sees that other guy. And it wasn't even like she

929
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: was like I'm leaving you for him. It was just

930
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: like we're never going to be together. And also there's

931
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: somebody else here that maybe I'll have a thing with,

932
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, right, and I just like generally annoyed by

933
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: like the whole Xander thing. It's like added for the movie.

934
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: And also adds nothing. It's like it was. It's always

935
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: so frustrating to me when a random guys added into

936
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: a scene where there's a more interesting female character literally

937
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: sitting right next to him for the every scene he's in,

938
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: like her captain, Like, I'm like there could we could

939
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: she could we talk to her? You know, she gets

940
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: killed and then it's just about this guy Xander, like

941
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: are they gonna kiss? Or are they going to hit

942
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: an asteroid? And that happens like forty times. He also

943
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: has no personality, like we we literally know nothing about him.

944
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: He's introduced in the most like basic way of like

945
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: they're playing some weird new version of football gymnastics Football

946
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: gymnastics football was fun. That was like one of my

947
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: favorite parts. And they're all right, if we all right,

948
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna prove who's the better guy for you're a

949
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: girl by who wins this sports game, and you're like,

950
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: first of all, she doesn't care at all, and also

951
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: why do you what is happening like? And then the

952
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 1: two of them have another fight later on where he's like,

953
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: you know what, let's punch each other. Rank doesn't even matter,

954
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: and then they just like have this like BROI fist fight,

955
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, I was like, don't care about this.

956
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: And it's also like even Carmen looks bored during this

957
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: scene because she's like this is just like is this necessary?

958
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, I wish I knew what was

959
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: on your mind. I don't know. And also it's like

960
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: in general, I don't know. It's we sort of we

961
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: weirdly talked about this on our Cadet Kelly episode, but

962
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I don't know. In this movie,

963
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: it's like, I guess you don't often see women in

964
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: combat in movies, but like this, I don't want to

965
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: see fascist women in combat. How is that? Like that's

966
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: not the representation win I think this movie. I was

967
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: gonna say, if if fans of yours suggest that this movie,

968
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if it's because because of the little crumbs

969
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: that you're still getting there is a there is a

970
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: way to look at this and be like wow, like

971
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: they had women in so many in high ranks of

972
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: like every part of this military. Like she becomes a pilot,

973
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: Like she does better than him. She becomes a pilot,

974
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: Like you know, you have Dias who's like really great.

975
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: She has her captain is a woman, like when the

976
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: general gets taken over, that's like a black woman. Like,

977
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: so there's like there are and like there are women

978
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: in combat, and there's never um no one's ever saying

979
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: things like you're you fight pretty good for a girl,

980
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: or like there's nothing like that, like I've I grew

981
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: up one of the boys, like you're not getting any

982
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: else on the football team, you know. Like so like

983
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: in a in a certain way, like if you're just

984
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: looking at the like kind of general setting that this

985
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: world is placed in your like, Okay, it seems like

986
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: women have some sort of parody in this world. But

987
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: then the movie is still following the guy, you know,

988
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: and and because of that, any real conversations are always

989
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: about him or happening because of him, or as the audience,

990
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be thinking about what is going to

991
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: happen to him because of what else is happening, you

992
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So, and the women are still

993
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: framed as like basically just being romantic prospects for him

994
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: supposed to be like a love triangle that we don't

995
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: care about because that's his story, and his whole story

996
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: is a is a romantic story, Like even at the

997
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: end where he's like rab military, Like what does that mean?

998
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: What does that even mean for him? Like what what

999
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: decision has he come to outside of just like fascism

1000
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: is good? I guess I don't know, but he he

1001
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: only has that like the whole journey, that whole character

1002
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: arc because he joined the military for Karen's like otherwise

1003
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: he was going to go to Harvard or something. Just

1004
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: another super weak decision too, because it's also like they

1005
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: knew that they were going to get separated immediately, Like

1006
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: his motivation in the movie makes no sense. He knows

1007
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: he's not going to go to pilot school. He might

1008
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: as well just be going to college, like they would

1009
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: still be communicating the same way. Like, I don't know.

1010
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: That was one of the things I thought the book

1011
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: did better. Is it at least like he was motivated

1012
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,919
Speaker 1: by something that wasn't just like sure, why not? Like

1013
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: it just just so strange. I don't know. And then

1014
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: on the other hand, you have Dissea's character. Oh my god,

1015
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm so fucking frustrated because there's I had to like

1016
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: text Kaitlin to make sure I didn't miss something. But Diz,

1017
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,439
Speaker 1: he clearly joined the military to follow Johnny who joined

1018
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: the military to follow Carmen, And I'm just like, why

1019
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: are we all? What are we doing here? And then

1020
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: Dizzy denies that. She denies that she joined the military

1021
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: to follows. Yeah, but then it's like, but clearly she did,

1022
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: and there's no other nothing else has ever presented. So

1023
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I guess her dying words are at

1024
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: least I got you, So she clearly that's exactly why

1025
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: she She literally had no other purpose in life. That

1026
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: was also a really weak, bizarre death. See, like both

1027
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: actors are giving me nothing, Like She's like, at least

1028
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: I saw you, and he was like, oh, like You're like,

1029
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: oh this is so gross. She's like, at least I

1030
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: got to fuck you one time in a sleeping bag

1031
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: like so bleak um. But but yeah, I don't know.

1032
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: Dizzy is so such a frustrating character because I feel

1033
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: like Paul Verhoven is almost trying to do this flip

1034
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: thing of like, look, she's aggressively pursuing him and ignoring

1035
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: his boundaries that he's setting, and it's like that's not

1036
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: something you need gender swapped. Really, you don't just swap

1037
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: it and be like is it woke there, like not really,

1038
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: But what's the interesting is that it's riz Right. That's

1039
01:02:55,040 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: her characters. Why did I say rizz her name isn't

1040
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: right Disney. Out of all of them, she seemed like

1041
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: the one best equipped to be in the military. And

1042
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: then there is that part that happens to where well, yeah,

1043
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: I was wondering your your takes on that, where like

1044
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: they're doing the obsotitcle course and she like knocks the

1045
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 1: two guys, you know, into the mud. And then like

1046
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: even like when they first they did something, it was

1047
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: like her plan that like got them to win whatever

1048
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: combat training exercise they were doing. And then he was like, well,

1049
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, like Disney does, he helped. But then like

1050
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: when it came down to when he got to Pick,

1051
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 1: like when he was in command again and he like

1052
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: needed whatever I don't know if it wasn't lieutenant but whatever,

1053
01:03:54,560 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 1: like right hand Man Corporates, he needed a core full

1054
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: and then he Picks is like, no, I already already

1055
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: screwed it up, dude. I I love that he is

1056
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: being honest with himself. He's like, I am ill equipped,

1057
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: I am just a nepotism pick. I just showed up here.

1058
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm just Gary Busey's son to please don't pick me. Yeah,

1059
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: and and only then after Gary Busey's son he's probably

1060
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: got a first name, but Jake. Yeah, So only after

1061
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: Jake Busey's character, Like it's like, no, I'm not I'm

1062
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: gonna mess this up again? Does Johnny then turned to

1063
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: Dizzy and be like, what do you want this? Do you?

1064
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: How about I guess you're right there? So but it's like, yeah,

1065
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 1: she has proven herself to be capable, but it seems

1066
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: like she keeps getting passed over for promotions and on

1067
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: top of that, because I sometimes get kind of like

1068
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: frustrated when it's like the movie is like I am

1069
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: feminist because for something like justin almost Mary suing a

1070
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: female character. But but that doesn't even happen to Dizzy

1071
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: because we know that she's like a better football player

1072
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: than Johnny at the beginning, like she's she is the

1073
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: most athletic character, but then she's like never. It's I'm like,

1074
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why they go so out of the

1075
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: way to have her never be anyone's top pick for anything,

1076
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: because it was like we're supposed to be in this

1077
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: post gender world because other women are getting opportunity. So

1078
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: I was like, well, then, what why is it her

1079
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: that we don't see, like what's her name? Is flying

1080
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: up the ranks? I mean Carmen is like Carmen's flying

1081
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: up those She's driving a fucking forward focus in space.

1082
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, I I hadn't even thought about like

1083
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: comparing their careers, but it's like there's I don't understand

1084
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 1: the reason why Dizzy wouldn't be kind of flying up

1085
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: the ranks because she's more capable and this is supposed

1086
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 1: to be a world where it doesn't matter. Yeah, And

1087
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: then I also wanted to talk about women getting fridged

1088
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: or damseled in this movie, because Dizzy is fridged because

1089
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: she's killed in combat. And then going back to Carmen

1090
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: really quick she there's a similar sort of like damseling

1091
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: scene at the end where it plays out in a

1092
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: less bad way than I thought it would, where I

1093
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: thought she would like really have to be like, you know,

1094
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: Johnny would have to swoop in and really save the day,

1095
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: but she like holds, she chops off the bit you know,

1096
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: the brain bugs brain sucking tube, uh, and like kind

1097
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: of like gets away herself. But even so I'm like, Okay,

1098
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: these women are friends in such a way where they

1099
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: are horny for the men around them. Whoever is closest

1100
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: to them is like whoever they're most horny for, and uh,

1101
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: then they are killed or damseled. Usually I choose to

1102
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: interpret Carmen as never being that interested in Johnny because

1103
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: it seems like Johnny's bullying Carmen into being in a

1104
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: relationship with it. It's again that same weird chain of command.

1105
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: Johnny is trying to bully Carmen into loving him. Meanwhile

1106
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 1: Dizzy is trying to bully Johnny into loving her. And

1107
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: then at the end you're like, I'm I don't want

1108
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: any of it. And then Karl's just like I'm a fascist,

1109
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: like he's interested in no one. I don't think this

1110
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: is any credit to the movie. But at the end,

1111
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: they're not like together. They don't have like a one

1112
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: of those like kiss, you know, victory kisses that we

1113
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: see at the end of movies a lot of times,

1114
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: Like she's not She doesn't say anything like we should

1115
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: have always been together anything like that. It's just like,

1116
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, they still care about it. It's I think

1117
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 1: in the reality of what was presented they wouldn't get together.

1118
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: Like at the end, she'd be like, you're such a

1119
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,439
Speaker 1: great friend and we should still remain friends. By the way,

1120
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: just just in case you were, you were must be

1121
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: friends and fascists like all three of us are. Yeah,

1122
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: we all the war for you know, killed the bugs.

1123
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: When ultimately, like Dizzy being fridged kind of like I

1124
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: feel like feeds into this narrative of like she was

1125
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: the right girl for him because she was willing to

1126
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: die for him in the state, unlike Carmen who wanted

1127
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: to fly a chip Like I don't know, the test

1128
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: audiences thought that, like you should have killed the woman

1129
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: who wanted a job. I don't know. Ultimately, I was

1130
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable looking for feminist messaging inside of a fascist movie,

1131
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: and that was I was like, women can be Nazis too,

1132
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: I know, it was like this is the reader. If

1133
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 1: the reader taught me anything, it's that women can also

1134
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: be Nazis. This I mean, I appreciate that Paul Verhoved

1135
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: wanted to say something with this movie, but I just

1136
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: don't think that he was successful. Yeah, going back to

1137
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: the world building of the story and like the quote

1138
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 1: unquote utopia that this movie is taking place within There

1139
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: does seem to be gender parity in the world of

1140
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: this story. Sexism doesn't really seem to exist. They tell

1141
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 1: us that the movie makes sexist choices because it's a

1142
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,440
Speaker 1: movie from the nineties, but the world it is depicting

1143
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: seems to be less sexist, and I feel like a

1144
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 1: similar thing is happening regarding race, where again the movie

1145
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: makes racist choices, but like, part of the world building

1146
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: in this story is that racism doesn't seem to be

1147
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,919
Speaker 1: much of a problem, which also none of this tracks

1148
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: for fascism, Like the racism and sexism wouldn't exist in

1149
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: a fascist society, so I don't really understand that. But

1150
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: the movie, like, yeah, it's making some some weird choices

1151
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,639
Speaker 1: regarding race. Jamie, you had mentioned that in the book

1152
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: the characters are Filipino and then that gets whitewashed for

1153
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 1: the movie. Yes, And the way the director explains whitewashing

1154
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: it was like he essentially says that he doesn't think

1155
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: that an audience will understand a world like he's like, oh, well,

1156
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: if they're fascists, it would feel weird for them to

1157
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: not be extremely white, which is like I see where

1158
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,600
Speaker 1: he's going with it. I see where he's going to it,

1159
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: but but whitewashing the entire movie seems like an extreme

1160
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: end to go to to. I don't know, Like, well,

1161
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: once again, it's like, sure, but your movie wasn't really

1162
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 1: anti fascist in any real way. So like, like again,

1163
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things where it just seems

1164
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: like a it's like a nice thing to say, but

1165
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: it's like, but that's not really what you were doing.

1166
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: You know you were you weren't making much of a commentary.

1167
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: Just adding a couple of scenes doesn't make much commentary

1168
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 1: on like why we shouldn't be anti fastest, especially when

1169
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: that everyone wins in the end, Like I don't write

1170
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: the fascist switch. I uh, that's I feel. Most of

1171
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: my problems with this movie go back to the fact

1172
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 1: that like everything that director describes of like what he

1173
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:11,560
Speaker 1: wants to do sounds like pretty interesting and sounds but that,

1174
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: but he just failed at all of those things, like

1175
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 1: none of the things happened. I found a quote from

1176
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:25,440
Speaker 1: an article in screen Rant entitled Starship Troopers meaning explained

1177
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: what it was really about love These kinds of articles,

1178
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: they're like what happened at the end of that'sh I

1179
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: read so many of these articles and reviews being like,

1180
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Star Show Troopers is brilliant satire and

1181
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: if you can't see that, then well there's something wrong

1182
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: with you. Um So, as this title suggests, this is

1183
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,719
Speaker 1: another one of these articles. I've yet to find anything

1184
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: in any of these articles that gives any kind of

1185
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: convincing exam couples or arguments about saying why and how

1186
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 1: the satire is clear and effective. None of them have

1187
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: been able to exp They're just like, well, you know

1188
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: a lot of the audiences took the film at face value,

1189
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: but they're missing the point because well, the movie puts

1190
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: the characters in Nazi regalia, So that's obvious satire, get it,

1191
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: But it's not obvious satire if the Nazis win, Like

1192
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: I don't understand how hard that is to explain, because

1193
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: it's like he's explaining Star Warship that like it's clearer

1194
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: in Star Wars because they're the bad guys, or if

1195
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: like even if they do win, if it's so obviously horrible,

1196
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 1: like if it's so obviously horrible to us, but again,

1197
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: the motivation, like even having the motivation for Johnny change

1198
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: because his parents were killed by the bugs. Like that's real.

1199
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: That's a real thing now, Like now I'm in now

1200
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I mean like maybe the reason this

1201
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,600
Speaker 1: war started wasn't great, but these bugs just like destroyed

1202
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: an entire city, like millions and millions of people. Like

1203
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,600
Speaker 1: that's a real reason to go to war, you know

1204
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like that's a real reason to like

1205
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: join an army and be like I'm gonna be like

1206
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: either defend Earth or enact revenge because like you're everyone

1207
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: you knew was killed, like you know, whether that even

1208
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: the revenge part, even if that's wrong, you can there's

1209
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,560
Speaker 1: still like a you know, a touch point that we

1210
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: all we can relate to it like yeah, man, if

1211
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 1: like if everybody I knew was wiped out, like and

1212
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: I had nothing else to live for, like you know,

1213
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: so that's that's what I'm talking about, Like we and

1214
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 1: then we don't get any of that. Like like there's

1215
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: like a slight satirical thing for him, like when he

1216
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: when Neil Patrick Harris is there and he's like that's

1217
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 1: what we're infantry for. We do the dying, you know,

1218
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah does the flying. But then like

1219
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: but then they win and like the guy was proven right,

1220
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: Like he was like, all right, we captured the like

1221
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 1: all of my everything I did worked, you know, and

1222
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: it was like, okay, so it just like it does

1223
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 1: and land at all like it. Well, here's the quote

1224
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 1: from this article. Quote in a two fourteen interview with

1225
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:16,640
Speaker 1: the Adam Corolla Show, a Great Start, Okay, said the

1226
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: king of perfect takes. What did he say? Michael Ironside,

1227
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: who plays Um rass Check in the film, Um, who

1228
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: played a militant officer in Starship Troopers, said that he

1229
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 1: asked Verehoven why he was making a right wing fascist movie.

1230
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 1: To that, Verehoven told him, if I tell the world

1231
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: that a right wing fascist way of doing things doesn't work,

1232
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 1: no one will listen to me. So I'm going to

1233
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:50,480
Speaker 1: make a perfect fascist world. Everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny,

1234
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it's only

1235
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 1: good for killing fucking bugs. End quote. So the director

1236
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: clearly wanted a message that was more subtle and like

1237
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 1: not super preachy, which I totally understand for certain things,

1238
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: but I don't think that subtlety is necessarily the way

1239
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: to go when speaking out against fascism. The other thing

1240
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 1: that's hard about this is like it's not like everyone

1241
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: in that world was like we need to kill Like, yes,

1242
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: the people in the army were like that, but like

1243
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 1: we get a sense that there is a world to

1244
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: fight for, you know what I mean, Like there's a

1245
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: world to defend for. And the intro to all this

1246
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: is like the bugs are like hurling asteroids at Earth,

1247
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 1: and we know that like an asteroid in real life

1248
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 1: like killed all of the dinosaurs, So it's kind of like, yeah,

1249
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 1: they're trying to commit like a genocide of the human race,

1250
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: so that's a legitimate reason to fight people. And then

1251
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 1: the only suggestion that we get that like humans start

1252
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 1: at the war is like these like one liners I

1253
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: think that come at like two differ in points and

1254
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: it's not explained at all. So and we don't relate

1255
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: to the bugs at all. So I don't know why

1256
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 1: anyone would look at this movie and go, I don't

1257
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: want to live in this world, because at the end

1258
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: of the day, I'm like, yeah, like maybe I wouldn't

1259
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 1: want to join the military, but I'm glad we have

1260
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: a military. I'm glad they're doing what they do. So

1261
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: that I don't get wiped out by an asteroid being

1262
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: hurled at, right. It's like even because it's like we

1263
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 1: we have not covered many movies about war on this show, uh,

1264
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 1: and I do think like it is like I have

1265
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: like a lot of different feelings about war movies, but

1266
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 1: it's like there are war movies that are well done

1267
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:44,640
Speaker 1: that make it like clear the like brutal nous and

1268
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 1: the different sacrifices and the different reasons that everyone comes

1269
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: to be in a war, whether they want to or not,

1270
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: depending on what the war is. And it's like this

1271
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 1: movie starts that and then it just doesn't do anything

1272
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: with it. Like I really do like the group shower

1273
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: scene in this movie that I feel like it's like

1274
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 1: the strongest start you get into like some insight into

1275
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: like why people are you know, why people in list

1276
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: and like what the different circumstances are that kind of

1277
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 1: bring you there instead of doing a wide sweeping like

1278
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: war and everyone who participates it in is bad. Like

1279
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: that is like an easy point to make for someone

1280
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: who has never been involved in a war, like I don't.

1281
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: But then it just all falls apart. Man, it's a bummer, yeah, um,

1282
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: And then to go back to that conversation about race. Um,

1283
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 1: so we have these whitewashed characters, which, like I understand

1284
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: the intention behind Verhoven's choice to do that. Instead, though,

1285
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 1: he has the characters be from Argentina and they maintain

1286
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 1: their Latin names from the book. So you know, you've

1287
01:17:55,000 --> 01:18:00,080
Speaker 1: got like Juan Rico, Carmen Ibanez, Dizzy Flores like, but

1288
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 1: they're all played by like white American actors. It's weird

1289
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,639
Speaker 1: and I don't like, I'm just like, well, I don't

1290
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 1: know what Argentina is, like you know, seven hundred years

1291
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 1: in the future when this movie takes place or whenever

1292
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: it's supposed to take place. But that just felt like

1293
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 1: another peculiar choice. And again it's not even like he's

1294
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 1: like saying this, but it's like, yeah, but there are

1295
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 1: black people. There are people of color like in the film,

1296
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:31,560
Speaker 1: Like it's just that they're not they're all supporting characters.

1297
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 1: Like they're all like minor supporting characters. Like, so you

1298
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 1: just had all your leads be white. I don't know,

1299
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: you can say whatever you want, like, it's like it's

1300
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,640
Speaker 1: not like you had it's not like some genocide had

1301
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: taken place in like all of like in this world

1302
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: there are no black people anymore, you know what I mean?

1303
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 1: Or whatever. It is like it's like they're still there.

1304
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 1: They clearly can serve, like they can reach high ranking positions,

1305
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 1: just that we don't know who any of those people

1306
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 1: are because you're not focusing on any of them. And

1307
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: it even seems like to the point where there's kind

1308
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: of like a revolving door of non white characters where

1309
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 1: we meet who's the who's the woman we meet in

1310
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 1: boot camp who is partially responsible for the for the

1311
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,759
Speaker 1: guy's head being blown off, and like it's her Johnny

1312
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,720
Speaker 1: that they're like they're the two people, and then she

1313
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 1: leaves the military. Fair enough, I would also be like

1314
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: this is clearly not for me. But it's like we

1315
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 1: we had a strong introduction to her, like she was

1316
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,640
Speaker 1: like I want to be in politics and like I

1317
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 1: have this dream and I was like, oh cool, But

1318
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: then ten minutes later she was like I'm out of here.

1319
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: I feel like she didn't leave on her own ac court.

1320
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: I feel like she got like discharged, Like yeah, I'm

1321
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: not even sure, because then Johnny has to like fight

1322
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 1: to stay exactly well, they were going to maybe boot

1323
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 1: him and they were like they were like, look, we

1324
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 1: already lost two soldiers for this, let's not lose a third.

1325
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:57,640
Speaker 1: And then it was kind of like, what why do

1326
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 1: you want to say that, dude, not that right, black

1327
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: just kicked out. But the fact that it's not even clear,

1328
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: because my read was she left on her own accord

1329
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 1: because she was just so upset over the death of

1330
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: this team member of hers so like. But the fact

1331
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 1: that it's not clear means that we, like the story

1332
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 1: doesn't bother to check in with her and like see

1333
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 1: how she's feeling or what exactly happened because of the

1334
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,720
Speaker 1: movie has no vested interest in any of the characters

1335
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 1: who are people of color. Yeah, there's no explanation. It's

1336
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 1: the basically, we get one image and it's her with

1337
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:37,680
Speaker 1: her backpack crying looking at everybody in the background of

1338
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:41,599
Speaker 1: the scene, like you're like that that was so freight

1339
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,840
Speaker 1: and then our other I like that. The other black

1340
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 1: characters we get to know well are Corporal Sugar Watkins.

1341
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: And then who is that that there's the dude from

1342
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: The Walking Dead. Yea, to you, he's dude from the

1343
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 1: Walking Dead. To me, he's the guy from Teen Wolf.

1344
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: He's been a lot of TV. I guess he was

1345
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: also on the wire, but unfortunately, yes, that's right, he's

1346
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: on the wire. He's a cop on the wire. My

1347
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 1: brain doesn't work, and therefore I know him from teen Wolf,

1348
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:17,639
Speaker 1: the series that's hilarious. But yeah, Watkins, that character. He's

1349
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 1: the guy who sacrifices himself at the end for all

1350
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: of the white people. And we don't meet him till

1351
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 1: halfway through, like there he just he shows up in

1352
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 1: the middle of the second act, and it's like there's

1353
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 1: no there's no non white characters that we get to

1354
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 1: see their storyline all the way through at all. I

1355
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 1: don't even think any of them survive that, right, I

1356
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:40,679
Speaker 1: wonder the other one because there are two black people.

1357
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:42,640
Speaker 1: It was like him. It was like him and the

1358
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 1: and the and that woman right, yeah, whose name? I

1359
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:48,679
Speaker 1: feel like I said out loud once what is her name?

1360
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 1: So many people die? I can't believe, how did Johnny

1361
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:55,760
Speaker 1: live through that attack? By the way, did we ever

1362
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: talk about that? Like, how did he how did he

1363
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 1: possibly vibe? How did they get him out of there?

1364
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 1: He's not even hood like, he's not even how did

1365
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:10,639
Speaker 1: he possibly live? They were gone, everyone had fallen back,

1366
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 1: there was like legions of bugs swarming. There was one

1367
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: that comes crawling on top of him when he's completely pinned,

1368
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: and we're supposed to we're supposed to believe that not

1369
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: only did they get him out of here, but they

1370
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: but he survived, right right? Who saved him? I feel

1371
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: like I I've already stated I do not I'm not

1372
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: a fan of Xander, but he was definitely better at

1373
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 1: war than Johnny was, and he got his brain sucked out,

1374
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 1: but when he was surrounded by like one tenth of

1375
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 1: the amount of bugs, he got his brain sucked dry.

1376
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 1: I love the idea that sucking like they can find

1377
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 1: out information by sucking the brains like live like because

1378
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, they're still alive. So like if we

1379
01:22:54,880 --> 01:23:00,520
Speaker 1: suck there like live brains will like it's ingestre in formation.

1380
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know what that was supposed to be.

1381
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: I will say I do like of the things I

1382
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:11,679
Speaker 1: do like about this movie. Uh, I love nasty, nasty

1383
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: body horror effects, and this movie really does deliver if

1384
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 1: you're a fan of nasty body. Dude, people are getting

1385
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 1: slow my god like cartoons slaughter. Yeah, Like it wasn't

1386
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 1: even close like like they just ripped apart limb from limb,

1387
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 1: just impaled constantly, just like they're the brains suck that.

1388
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 1: You're just like, oh, so it's so I'm hard to

1389
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: like get grossed out, but there was something I was like, fuck,

1390
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 1: that is absolutely disgusting, and I feel like, you know,

1391
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: it's so funny. I feel like I feel like I've

1392
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 1: seen I saw this movie a couple of times, and

1393
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:52,719
Speaker 1: one time I didn't watch it all the way through,

1394
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:54,680
Speaker 1: and I just thought that they just all died at

1395
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 1: the end because I was just like, well, there's no

1396
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 1: chance they're getting out of this, like when they're well,

1397
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 1: like when they get trapped in that like desert things

1398
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 1: like there's there's zero chance you make it out of here.

1399
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:07,599
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's how this movie should have ended,

1400
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 1: which is like everyone die, like just everyone dying, and

1401
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: then it would have been then I would have been

1402
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: like it is kind of a critique on fascism, isn't

1403
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:19,160
Speaker 1: it right? Yeah, fascism doesn't work. The bugs will kill

1404
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:25,719
Speaker 1: you one, Um, what a disaster. Truly. Also worth noting

1405
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 1: that there are a couple disabled characters, the main one

1406
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 1: being roz Check, who is played by an able bodied

1407
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 1: actor Michael Ironside. His character has an arm that's been amputated. Yeah,

1408
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: and it's like very very of this era to not

1409
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: even consider having a disabled actor play a disabled character.

1410
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: But on top of that, it's like it seems like

1411
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: his disability is mainly used to scare people, which is

1412
01:24:54,600 --> 01:25:01,719
Speaker 1: uh also uh not very thoughtful. Uh. Top to bottom,

1413
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: it felt like intentional to be like look at like

1414
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 1: the like this is what war does to you. It's

1415
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 1: like just dismembers you. And but these people are all

1416
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 1: still serving, you know, and they're like you should be

1417
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: lucky to like go to war and lose a leg,

1418
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:19,000
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and there's some interesting commentary to be

1419
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 1: had there. Did the movie make it? Yeah? Again, any

1420
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:27,680
Speaker 1: commentary this movie makes is is like passing and suggestions,

1421
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 1: but like never the actual point of the movie. Yeah,

1422
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was truly surprised at how

1423
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: many writers and critics and like have just like kind

1424
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: of put it all on the line to say that

1425
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:44,000
Speaker 1: actually this movie is saying everything. But it's like, well,

1426
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess we will just have to

1427
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 1: agree to disagree there with all the people who wrote

1428
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:56,880
Speaker 1: what you don't understand about Starship Troopers. You tiny brained fool, Like, right,

1429
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 1: what did you get your brain sucked out? You don't

1430
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: even know that this movie is awesome satires, get your

1431
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 1: brains gone by a bug? That's the thing is like,

1432
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 1: there's just like, yeah, there's a little again, We've said

1433
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 1: this so many times. There's a little bit, but it's

1434
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 1: not enough. It's just I don't know. Yeah, I have

1435
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 1: to imagine that this was hard to get a lot

1436
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 1: of stuff approved. And it's like, I will give Verhoven

1437
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 1: the fact that it's like, especially with the movie with

1438
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:25,360
Speaker 1: this big of a budget, like I'm sure that he

1439
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: that stuff that would have he would have liked to

1440
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 1: have in the movie didn't end up in there, and like,

1441
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:33,799
Speaker 1: but but there's so many high level decisions that fail

1442
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 1: that it's like, well, he's got to take he's got

1443
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 1: to take the l to some extent. Yeah, it's disappoint

1444
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 1: it's disappointing. It's like I was actually hoping that there

1445
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 1: would be a lot more commentary than it feels like that.

1446
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 1: It feels like there was, and it's just like one

1447
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,640
Speaker 1: of these things where I'm like nobody who believes in

1448
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 1: this stuff is going to watch this movie and think

1449
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 1: that their way of thinking is incorrect. Like, if anything,

1450
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 1: this movie we just reaffirms what people believe, you know,

1451
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 1: Like yeah, because that's what that's that's the consequences of

1452
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 1: the movie. The gods because of the movie are like, Yeah,

1453
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:13,360
Speaker 1: this guy is a hero and he saved a bunch

1454
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 1: of people, and he, you know, was dedicated to the cause,

1455
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: and if everybody works together and we're militaristics, they will

1456
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 1: always defend our home. Like I don't know, like, there's

1457
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 1: no there's nothing else presented for that to for that

1458
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: to not be thee I totally agree. Yeah, I don't

1459
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: see a fascist watching this movie and then being like,

1460
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I was so wrong. I need to

1461
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:41,599
Speaker 1: change my mind. Has a fascist mind that change by

1462
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 1: Starship Troopers. That's the true yardstick. And like, I want

1463
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 1: to be clear that people are welcome to disagree with us.

1464
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are listeners who see this movie as

1465
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:58,280
Speaker 1: clear and effective satire, especially because, like as director Paul

1466
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: Verhoeven has stated, that was his intent with the film.

1467
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:06,840
Speaker 1: So I'm not arguing about his intentions. And he's coming

1468
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: from a particularly he's coming from a place where he

1469
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 1: is better qualified than a lot of people to make

1470
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: art critiquing fascism because he was raised in Nazi occupied Amsterdam.

1471
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 1: My argument is that for me, his intentions did not

1472
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,640
Speaker 1: come across as clearly as I think they could or

1473
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:37,760
Speaker 1: should have if you're trying to condemn militaristic fascist ideologies.

1474
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, I don't know. I and I also like,

1475
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:45,639
Speaker 1: I I really, I really love the intent behind this movie,

1476
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:48,760
Speaker 1: and I think it's like a really ballsy idea to

1477
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 1: be like, I'm going to take this source material that's

1478
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:53,680
Speaker 1: really fucked up and I'm going to say the opposite

1479
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 1: while using the same story. Like, I don't think that

1480
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 1: that's an impossible thing to do, but it just it

1481
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: just didn't work out for this one. We should do

1482
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:04,160
Speaker 1: more Paul Verhoeven movies, though, he I mean, what a catalog,

1483
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 1: what a legacy. How have we not done show Girls

1484
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: at this point? Oh my gosh, she simply must shocking.

1485
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: We'll get there. That's a good one to do for

1486
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:20,960
Speaker 1: this podcast, for sure. Yeah, does this movie pass the

1487
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Bechtel test? I don't know. I think it does. I

1488
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 1: think it very very briefly. Does they are standards which

1489
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 1: are like, I mean the standards of the test in

1490
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: general are pretty a little bit. Carmen and her commanding officer,

1491
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: who is named, but what is her name? She is? Oh,

1492
01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 1: that was my question. She does get named, but I

1493
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,719
Speaker 1: could not tell you exactly what it is. Dizzy talks

1494
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:47,759
Speaker 1: to a corporal as well. That's the other thing I had.

1495
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 1: And then Dizzy and Carmen do have one scene where

1496
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 1: there at least one scene um where uh, Carmen's like, hi, Disney,

1497
01:29:55,439 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: and Disney says Carmen, we know their names, face me

1498
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:05,679
Speaker 1: to each other. The like subtext behind that is connected

1499
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 1: to a boy. Yeah, they're like, oh yeah, who, like,

1500
01:30:09,200 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 1: are you dating my ex boyfriend? Oh my god. The

1501
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 1: looks that Dizzy shoots Carmen while Carmen's minding her business

1502
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 1: is very funny. But it's it's a loose pass. It's

1503
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 1: a barely pass. Yeah, it's a it's a loose pass.

1504
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, Yeah. I think something I want to

1505
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 1: do moving forward, just for like my personal Bechdel test

1506
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 1: um analysis is could the conversation that arguably does pass

1507
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 1: the Betel tests be removed from the movie and the

1508
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,680
Speaker 1: movie is no different or like the plot is not effective,

1509
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: Like is it an important conversation that like informs the story.

1510
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 1: If not, then it's like a not good pass. I

1511
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:54,599
Speaker 1: like that, thank you so much. I mean, it's so

1512
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 1: hard for this film because there's like a part of

1513
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 1: me that's like, does any like what is the story

1514
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,680
Speaker 1: really at the end of the you know what? What

1515
01:31:02,840 --> 01:31:05,120
Speaker 1: is the takeaway? It's so hard to care about any

1516
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:07,599
Speaker 1: of these characters. But I guess in terms of like

1517
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 1: Carmen's journey, her relationship with the captain, even though it's

1518
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 1: so barely there, is like informative to like her character

1519
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 1: arc in some way, and she does become the captain. Yeah,

1520
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:24,679
Speaker 1: so like her the captain like talking to her about anything,

1521
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,599
Speaker 1: which is generally about her career. It's like because that's

1522
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: kind of her motivation. So yeah, I guess in that sense,

1523
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 1: it's because if her captain wasn't it wasn't a woman,

1524
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:38,960
Speaker 1: then that this movie would have no shot, right right,

1525
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 1: it's not. It simply is not. I don't know, like

1526
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 1: I should Should we just do the ratings? Yeah, let's

1527
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 1: just do a nipple rating, which is a scale of

1528
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: zero to five nipples based on an examination of the

1529
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 1: movie through an intersectional feminist lens So all things considered,

1530
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:02,320
Speaker 1: everything we talked about, I'm going to have to give

1531
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 1: this movie maybe a half nipple. The women in this

1532
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:13,000
Speaker 1: movie are framed in relation to like the men in

1533
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: their life, or like they're there because they know Johnny

1534
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,840
Speaker 1: Rico kind of thing, and I just didn't find really

1535
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 1: any of their arc source storylines very compelling. And then

1536
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 1: again the execution of this political satire not being very clear.

1537
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:34,679
Speaker 1: I think here's here's what I wrote in my notes,

1538
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 1: Team America World Police is more effective satire and condemnation

1539
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 1: of like military practices than Starship. Absolutely thank you is

1540
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 1: like because it's so the intent is so clear. You

1541
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 1: can disagree with like the jokes that they do and

1542
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff, but there it's it's it's

1543
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:05,599
Speaker 1: such an obvious thing of being like, this is how

1544
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: America sees itself. It's so absolutely and utterly ridiculous that

1545
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,519
Speaker 1: we see ourselves as the world please because that's really

1546
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:16,400
Speaker 1: absolutely yeah. And that's not to say that like that

1547
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 1: satire can't be subtle, but if it's so subtle that

1548
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 1: it's not really there, such as Starship Troopers, it doesn't

1549
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 1: really work. Yeah. Um, well anyway, yeah, half nipple and

1550
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: I'll give it to the bugs because you know they've

1551
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 1: just they were just colonized and what did they do wrong? Right? Yeah?

1552
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 1: From from intersectional feminist Lens. I I'm giving good zero.

1553
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 1: I don't want, I don't like, I don't I don't

1554
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:50,880
Speaker 1: want to root for a fascist girl boss and I'm

1555
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: not going to. So I'm giving good zero because even

1556
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 1: when the women are portrayed with arcs and with dreams

1557
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:03,120
Speaker 1: and with ambitions, um, they're they're fascists. I don't. Yeah,

1558
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:08,640
Speaker 1: no nipples, no nipples, none to distribute. Come on, I appreciate.

1559
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:13,240
Speaker 1: I appreciate the Verhoeven effort. I am. I I like,

1560
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 1: I think his work is really risky and and bizarre.

1561
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 1: And this just what this one didn't didn't hit for me.

1562
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I feel like I'm graving grading it on

1563
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: a curve and also based on my own expectations coming in.

1564
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 1: So I was going to give it one and a

1565
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:35,439
Speaker 1: half only because I did think that for what the

1566
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:39,720
Speaker 1: world was like, they did have women in different positions

1567
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 1: and like they had black women too, and like you know,

1568
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: she like took over the military, and you know they

1569
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:48,559
Speaker 1: were like good, like they could hold their own there wasn't.

1570
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:51,360
Speaker 1: You know. I just feel like this time period, there's

1571
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,400
Speaker 1: there's so much of that like, oh, your sporty spice,

1572
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you're the oh you're

1573
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:01,920
Speaker 1: a tomboy like and that that conversation like just truly

1574
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,799
Speaker 1: didn't even exist in the film, and like people seemed

1575
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:10,360
Speaker 1: to acknowledge everyone's skills for what they were and they

1576
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,920
Speaker 1: didn't like add gender on top of that. Yeah that said,

1577
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 1: like it's still I mean, it was just completely like

1578
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 1: the movies, like like everything the movie says is not Yeah,

1579
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:24,640
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with any of that. But

1580
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I just feel like it

1581
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 1: still did more than a lot of films at the time,

1582
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:34,600
Speaker 1: which wasn't saying much. But yeah, yeah what a time.

1583
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:40,639
Speaker 1: We did get Titanic, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Um, all right,

1584
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 1: so that's Starship Troopers. You asked for it. Yeah, but

1585
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 1: for the people who ask you happy now, I hope

1586
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 1: you're happy. I bet they're not, though, I bet they're

1587
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 1: not that they wanted us to be, like it's secretly genius.

1588
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:58,240
Speaker 1: They're furious with us. Yeah, the people who asked for

1589
01:35:58,240 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: it aren't happy, and the people who didn't ask for

1590
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:03,880
Speaker 1: our like I didn't ask. They're really unhappy. They're not

1591
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:07,880
Speaker 1: listening right now. They're like, I'm upset, amazing, how this

1592
01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 1: is our worst episode ever. I'm I'm actually genuinely very

1593
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 1: glad that we went down the rabbit hole in this

1594
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 1: one because I feel curious about it for a long time.

1595
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 1: And uh, it is, I mean, it's it. I don't

1596
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:26,560
Speaker 1: think it accomplishes what it's trying to, but it's definitely unique.

1597
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 1: I've never seen a movie like this, and I so

1598
01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 1: there is that indeed. Jonathan, thank you so much for

1599
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 1: being here with us, for joining us in this discussion.

1600
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 1: Where can people check out your stuff? Follow you on

1601
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:46,640
Speaker 1: social media? Yeah, you can follow me at John Braylock

1602
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:48,560
Speaker 1: j O N B R A Y L O C

1603
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:52,559
Speaker 1: k uh podcast Black Men Can't Jump in Hollywood's available

1604
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 1: where we get your podcasts if you want to. We

1605
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:58,320
Speaker 1: also we talk about films with leading black actors in

1606
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:01,479
Speaker 1: the context of race. Um, that's super fun And if

1607
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 1: you've never seen Astronomy Club on Netflix, check it out.

1608
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:07,679
Speaker 1: It's fun. So on Netflix six episodes, a quick binge.

1609
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:12,160
Speaker 1: We'll finish it maybe in one city. You simply mus

1610
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 1: it's very funny the best. Yeah, yeah, that's it cool. Thanks,

1611
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 1: thanks so much for hanging out with us. Yeah, thanks

1612
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,000
Speaker 1: for having me. This was great. I would love to

1613
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 1: Yeah and uh yeah. You can follow us on social

1614
01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:27,800
Speaker 1: media as well, Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You

1615
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 1: can subscribe to our Patreon ak Matreon, patreon dot com

1616
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: slash Spectel Cast. It's five dollars a month and it

1617
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: gets you access to two bonus episodes plus the entire

1618
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 1: back catalog. So and then you can get our merch

1619
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:46,280
Speaker 1: at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Uh

1620
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:50,519
Speaker 1: go bugs, bugs Hi