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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if.

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Speaker 2: You've had experience with manipulation or abusive power that you'd

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Speaker 2: like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, Trust for trust me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 5: I've never lived to you, and we never have a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two future ghosts who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I'm Lola Blanc, I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today is part two of our interview with Elisiabderkson, author

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Speaker 2: of Out of the Wilderness and survivor of her father's

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Speaker 2: abusive family cult. Last week, we talked about her hippie

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Speaker 2: turned Christian dad and how he raised his family in

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Speaker 2: the wilderness and put Alicia both through hell. In this

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Speaker 2: week's episode, we'll discuss their move to Alaska, how it's

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Speaker 2: abused and sexual after years of grooming, and how she

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Speaker 2: finally escaped.

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Speaker 1: We'll also talk about what her mental state was after

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Speaker 1: she left, how she adjusted to life in regular society,

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Speaker 1: and what the process of healing that many layers of

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Speaker 1: trauma was like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so warning again one more time here. This is

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Speaker 2: extremely harrowing stuff. There are pretty graphic descriptions of sexual

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Speaker 2: abuse and just a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of trauma.

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Speaker 2: So you know, if you're not prepared to hear that today,

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Speaker 2: maybe skip this episode. But she does get into also

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Speaker 2: what life is like after and how she is doing

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Speaker 2: much better now. So before we dive in with her,

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Speaker 2: we are recording this on Halloween.

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Speaker 3: Happy Halloween, Megan.

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Speaker 1: Happy Halloween, Lola. I feel like this is your favorite holiday?

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Speaker 1: Am I correct, you're not.

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Speaker 2: It's Christmas. Bucks you love Christmas, love Christmas.

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Speaker 1: That I am shocked. Okay, okay, the cults of Christmas.

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Speaker 3: You know what it is.

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Speaker 2: I think most of you probably don't know what I

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Speaker 2: look like or like what my vibe is. I dress

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Speaker 2: up a lot throughout the year. It's because I'm a

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Speaker 2: singer and I like fashion and whatever, so I like

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Speaker 2: will get dressed up like anytime I go to an event.

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Speaker 2: So Halloween doesn't feel.

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Speaker 1: Like that you are just Halloween that sure, I am Halloween.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that's fair, and I.

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Speaker 2: Watch horror movies all year long, so it's like literally

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Speaker 2: the same.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing is different. Shall I tell you the cultiest

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Speaker 1: thing of my week?

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Speaker 3: Please do?

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Speaker 1: Okay, this freaked me out on this Halloween day. I

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Speaker 1: saw this morning somebody did a deep fake of Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Olson and Scarlett Johansson. They like made their faces move

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Speaker 1: and look the exact same, and it was like, which

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Speaker 1: one's the deep fake? And it was really hard to tell.

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Speaker 1: Scarlett's eyebrows kind of glitch, and she glitches in a

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Speaker 1: few places so you can tell. But it's very obvious

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Speaker 1: that soon, I mean, deep fakes have already been perfected

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Speaker 1: almost completely, but soon it's just going to be super easy,

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Speaker 1: which it's not gonna go while I don't think for

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Speaker 1: people with them bad intentions.

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Speaker 3: I yeah, so scary, so scary. I also saw that AI.

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Speaker 1: Can communicate with bees today to make them produce honey,

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Speaker 1: so what this isn't scary at all. It's just you know,

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Speaker 1: the cults of technology and the power that people and

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Speaker 1: it will soon have is already crazy, but it's just

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Speaker 1: going to get more powerful.

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Speaker 3: So wow, that is so terrifying if they're.

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, if I have any kind of assurance that

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Speaker 2: there'd be like any legal limit on these technologies that

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Speaker 2: would like prevent people from behaving morally with them, like

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Speaker 2: I'd be like cool technology, so excited, But instead it's

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Speaker 2: in the hands of like the craziest narcissistic people.

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Speaker 3: Yes, fucking sociopath billionaires. It's so.

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Speaker 2: And then of course just the wild world west of

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Speaker 2: the Internet and hackers and stuff.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Tech is scary, it is.

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Speaker 1: Ah, it's I'm curious to see what happens me too.

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Speaker 2: Except not really. I kind of want to just go

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Speaker 2: live in a cavern.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, what about you, what's the cultiest thing

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Speaker 1: that happened to you?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is really like a cultiest thing. But I

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Speaker 2: just I want to address something that has happened, which

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Speaker 2: is well, first of all, I've been really fucking bad

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Speaker 2: at checking the social media because I have anxiety and

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Speaker 2: I'm like so scared of people not like being being

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Speaker 2: upset about things. I will get back to checking it soon.

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Speaker 2: But I did receive a couple of messages on another

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Speaker 2: platform that I don't use that much.

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Speaker 3: I shall not name which one.

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Speaker 2: Referring to hat and we've gotten some comments like this,

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Speaker 2: and this is vastly the minority, I would say, like

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Speaker 2: by far the minority. But we did just get spotlighted

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Speaker 2: by Fox News yesterday, so that could go up people

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Speaker 2: who who enjoyed the podcast and want to hear about

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Speaker 2: colds and don't want to hear about politics, And I

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Speaker 2: think particularly mine because I've been especially vocal about my

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of left, very left leaning politics.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I just want to talk about it for a second.

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Speaker 3: Can we just like talk about it for a second.

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Speaker 2: I don't even have like a specific thing here other

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Speaker 2: than that, like, part of what we want to do

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Speaker 2: do on this show is encourage all of us to

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Speaker 2: think critically about the people or institutions we take for

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Speaker 2: granted as trustworthy leaders. That is a major component of

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Speaker 2: how to protect yourself from cultic groups and cultic thinking

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Speaker 2: in general. And that's sort of inextricably linked with politics

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Speaker 2: because we follow politicians and we join parties, and it's

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Speaker 2: this like sort of inherently us versus them dynamic that's created,

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Speaker 2: which is very much parallel in many ways to how

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Speaker 2: cults work.

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Speaker 4: Total.

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Speaker 2: So when we talk about the cultiest thing of the week,

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Speaker 2: and we and we're talking about someone who's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: peddled some very extreme rhetoric or whatever, whether it be

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Speaker 2: on a news station or a politician or whatever. Like,

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Speaker 2: I just would encourage anyone who maybe doesn't agree with

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Speaker 2: me personally politically to consider, like, Okay, what is my

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Speaker 2: gut reaction. Am I just reacting to like a liberal

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Speaker 2: who is saying things that I've.

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Speaker 3: Been told are wrong?

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Speaker 2: And I would also encourage myself and everyone in my

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Speaker 2: camp to do the same thing, because we hear people

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Speaker 2: say things that like we identify as being a part

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Speaker 2: of a certain group that we are not in that

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Speaker 2: we don't like, Yeah, for very.

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Speaker 3: Valid reasons much of the time.

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Speaker 2: But then we go, oh, they must be bad, that

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Speaker 2: person's bad, and that they're usually not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I will just say, like doing this podcast,

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Speaker 1: when I started it, I was way more left than

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Speaker 1: I am now I'm like pretty moderate, just because I

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Speaker 1: did start asking myself questions and that's not everyone's journey,

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Speaker 1: that's not your journey, but I just started looking at

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Speaker 1: things a little bit more differently. Yeah, So that's been

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Speaker 1: an odd thing, and I think that that's fun for

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Speaker 1: people maybe who listen, because we always have different takes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think interestingly, I feel like I've

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Speaker 2: become more left in some ways and more moderate in

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Speaker 2: other ways, just because like same humans are complicated, Like

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Speaker 2: the things that matter to us are complicated, and almost

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Speaker 2: none of us fit into this.

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Speaker 3: Like perfect category of I am left and I am right,

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Speaker 3: and like.

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Speaker 2: Even if we do, there might be some sneaking little

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Speaker 2: part of us that has a different issue that we

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Speaker 2: feel sort of differently about, but we feel like we

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Speaker 2: can't talk about that one, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if somebody expressed a different opinion than me

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Speaker 1: two years ago, I was like, you are bad, You're

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Speaker 1: an awful person. Yeah, and you need to like you're

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Speaker 1: not good. And so that's really scary because we're being

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Speaker 1: lied to on all sides all the time.

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Speaker 2: Because the world isn't black and white, and people are

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Speaker 2: not and categories of good and bad and people we

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Speaker 2: all only know the information that we've been exposed to

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Speaker 2: based on the conditions that an environment that we're in.

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Speaker 2: So this approach of us versus them is just not

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Speaker 2: serving us in any way, and it's not changing any minds.

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Speaker 2: And I know there are myriad opinions on this but

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Speaker 2: that I am certain of, like just I know enough

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Speaker 2: about psychology at this point. I know enough about human

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Speaker 2: behavior at this point to know like, we don't fit

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Speaker 2: neatly into those categories, and it's counterproductive to say that

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Speaker 2: we do.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, if you are listening to this show and you

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Speaker 2: are conservative, and you feel irritated or even angry at

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Speaker 2: some of the politicians I've critiqued in the past, I

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Speaker 2: would just urge you to consider that there are all

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Speaker 2: kinds of other things that we're critiquing here, and it's

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Speaker 2: not about falling into this one group.

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Speaker 3: We're trying to fight against that, that's all.

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Speaker 2: Just keep an open mind, and even if you don't

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Speaker 2: like that stuff, the interviews are pretty good.

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Speaker 3: That's all.

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Speaker 2: Also, if you do like us, go ahead and rate

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Speaker 2: us five stars on the podcast app. On that note,

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Speaker 2: I think we shall transition into the story of this

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Speaker 2: incredibly strong woman, Elisia ba So tell us when these

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Speaker 2: sexual abuse began, how old were you?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So, that is a complicated question because the real

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Speaker 4: truth is so just started when I was a baby

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Speaker 4: in the little white house where I was born in

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Speaker 4: the deserts of California, and I know this because my

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Speaker 4: father told me that he would take me into the

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Speaker 4: shower and he described exactly how I looked, my naked body,

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Speaker 4: my private parts, and how I was created just for him.

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Speaker 4: And that's what God did. He informed me in my

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Speaker 4: mother's womb to be there for my father and to

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Speaker 4: replace kk.

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Speaker 3: KK was the woman who shot herself.

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Speaker 4: Life, and his brokenness was going to be replaced. When

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Speaker 4: he saw me, I was his very first daughter born

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Speaker 4: to him, and that he knew then that I was

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Speaker 4: going to be this person replaced in his life. And

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Speaker 4: this is something he glaid out to me as we

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Speaker 4: were out in the wilderness and he had taken me

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Speaker 4: away and said that I was now and.

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Speaker 5: Esther, I'll put this out there.

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Speaker 4: The story of Esther in the Bible is one of

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Speaker 4: the most evil stories I think in the Bible, about

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Speaker 4: a king who put away his wife because she didn't

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Speaker 4: want to come dance in front of all his people,

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Speaker 4: and he put her away and pretty much raped all

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Speaker 4: the daughters of I'm putting it in my own words. Okay,

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Speaker 4: all the virgins come and they have to give up

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Speaker 4: what they have to become maybe the king's new queen,

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Speaker 4: and in the process God used what was meant for

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Speaker 4: evil for good, and Esther was chosen and she became

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Speaker 4: his queen. And yet she was of the people that

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Speaker 4: had been taking and assassinated and killed and become slaves.

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Speaker 4: And then in the end, what she did was she

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Speaker 4: saved her people out of her bravery, out of being

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Speaker 4: that little plant that just you know, pushed through the

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Speaker 4: crowd and found what it took to savor people. And

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Speaker 4: yet my father is making me Queen Esther pretty much

224
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Speaker 4: as evil as that king did. To be honest with you,

225
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Speaker 4: I don't mean to laugh about you know, that's his concept.

226
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Speaker 4: And yet through it all, I'm just zooming ahead. God

227
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Speaker 4: used me as a queen Esther in reality. But right

228
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Speaker 4: now I'm in the wilderness and I'm in a water

229
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Speaker 4: trough that we filled up with creek water, and once again,

230
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Speaker 4: the air is airy, it is scary, and I don't

231
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Speaker 4: know what's happening. I know one thing, it's either going

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Speaker 4: to be hell bound or my father's gonna say it's

233
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Speaker 4: heaven bound. He's been so angry, he's been beating my

234
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Speaker 4: brothers over whipping barrels, and he says he's gonna leave

235
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Speaker 4: my mom. I'm begging him, please don't do this to

236
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Speaker 4: our family, please, And I'm taking up for him. He's

237
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Speaker 4: threatening me. If you even dare take up for them,

238
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Speaker 4: you'll be just like them. And you're the only hope

239
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Speaker 4: for the family, because if you can happy, things can change.

240
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Speaker 4: It's then where he exposes the fact that God made

241
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Speaker 4: me just for him since I was born. I'm already

242
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Speaker 4: feeling shame. I'm feeling horrible inside. I'm going what's happened?

243
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Speaker 4: It's like the veils are falling from my eyes?

244
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Speaker 5: Am I am? I naked?

245
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Speaker 4: Am I? What am I doing in the bathtub with

246
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Speaker 4: my father?

247
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Speaker 3: How old are you?

248
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Speaker 5: I'm nineteen?

249
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Speaker 4: And he just woos me over. He says, come on

250
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Speaker 4: over here to me. I start to resist. Oh you're

251
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Speaker 4: gonna resist me too, uh huh, And just like.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, Papa, oh no.

253
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Speaker 4: And every time, you know, I pulled back, even the

254
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Speaker 4: least little bit. It was like I was the devil

255
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Speaker 4: and I knew what that was like, knew he liked

256
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Speaker 4: to beat, I knew he liked to see pain. Yet

257
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Speaker 4: I was the only hope for my family. Wow, was

258
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Speaker 4: I really willing? And so in that moment of many

259
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Speaker 4: hours in the dark, in this tub. He pulls me

260
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Speaker 4: closer and closer, and every time I resist, it gets

261
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Speaker 4: really bad. And I'm going from hell to what he would

262
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Speaker 4: say is heaven and that he has all this revelation

263
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Speaker 4: from God. And in the Bible, even Locke had a

264
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Speaker 4: relationship with his daughters because that was all that was

265
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Speaker 4: left was him and his daughters. Wow, and David too old.

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Speaker 4: He had to have his virgin because his body needed it.

267
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Speaker 4: You are my virgin, you are my esther. You are

268
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Speaker 4: like Lot's daughters. It's okay. God has created you for this.

269
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Speaker 4: So spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically, my body started getting

270
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Speaker 4: turned on. I didn't know what was happening to me.

271
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Speaker 4: He had the power to wake that up, and I

272
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Speaker 4: didn't know that. So now I'm feeling shame what just

273
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Speaker 4: happened to me. And then he says, get out. And

274
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Speaker 4: I think two of the greatest abuse that one can

275
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Speaker 4: go through, because I've gone through them all. Number one

276
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 4: is spiritual abuse because it's in your brain. You're literally

277
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Speaker 4: got this conscience not against evil, but against what's good.

278
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Speaker 4: To be honest with you, and all of a sudden,

279
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Speaker 4: what's good is actually evil, and what's evil is actually

280
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Speaker 4: supposed to be good. The other thing is rejection. So

281
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Speaker 4: if you think about it, you know, for this it's

282
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,400
Speaker 4: the Nazis or whatever story you may hear. There's usually

283
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:41,200
Speaker 4: some sort of rejection where you are suddenly rejected and

284
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Speaker 4: maybe you're built up and then suddenly you're rejected from

285
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,840
Speaker 4: the family. Those times I'd be out, you know, working

286
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 4: my hands to the bones and just starving and crying.

287
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Speaker 5: I'm not allowed to stop.

288
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Speaker 4: If I get caught by anybody, I was told on

289
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 4: and I'd be beat again. Or if I was caught smiling,

290
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Speaker 4: I was told on, So there.

291
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Speaker 3: Wasn't no smile.

292
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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Well.

293
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 4: What was worse was hearing the family and there singing.

294
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Speaker 4: My papa played his guitar and saying as loud as

295
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 4: he could and excited, and he had everybody dancing around

296
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 4: the room. And you're on the outside listening to joy.

297
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Speaker 4: The thing you want the most, his happiness, The thing

298
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,760
Speaker 4: alonged for more than anything on earth, was to see

299
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Speaker 4: my family happy. It's like, all of a sudden, what

300
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 4: felt bad was supposed to be good. And I'm in

301
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 4: the bathtub, you know, in that trough water trough is

302
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 4: my father, and all of a sudden, he flips. He says,

303
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 4: get out, put your robe on and go to bed

304
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Speaker 4: in the truck and wait for me there.

305
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Speaker 5: Don't get dressed.

306
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Speaker 4: All of a sudden, I'm conscious of myself. All of

307
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 4: a sudden, I noticed myself. I'm afraid he's looking. And

308
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 4: he says, I'm not looking, don't worry, but I know

309
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 4: he is. And I go to the truck and I

310
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 4: lay there, terrified, frozen. I couldn't move. And that night,

311
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 4: you know, he gets out and he comes and he

312
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 4: he spends the rest of the night molesting me. I

313
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 4: went from feelings to hatred too. Is this what was

314
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 4: supposed to happen? And he says, don't you, dear, don't

315
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 4: you dare talk back about it. If you do, you'll

316
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 4: immediately be talking against the Holy Spirit, and the Bible

317
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 4: says that that will never ever be forgiven you, and

318
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Speaker 4: it'll be too late, so don't say anything. I would

319
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 4: have raked him take a gun to my head than that,

320
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 4: than to use God, then to use my own conscious

321
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Speaker 4: against me.

322
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Speaker 3: Wow.

323
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Speaker 2: And he had been grooming you for this moment, for

324
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Speaker 2: your entire life. Absolutely, yes, I mean obviously he had

325
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 2: complete control over you. And obviously there was the threat

326
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Speaker 2: of physical violence, but he also had been crossing lines

327
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Speaker 2: of the boundaries that should be between a father and

328
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Speaker 2: a daughter basically throughout your life, right, I mean, like

329
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 2: your job was to like make sure he was physically

330
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Speaker 2: comfortable and snuggle with him and sit on his lap

331
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Speaker 2: and kiss him, you know. Like so I just want

332
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 2: to give that context for what's happening. It's not out

333
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,400
Speaker 2: of nowhere. It's after an entire lifetime of needing to

334
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 2: do that. Or you will get beaten, you will be

335
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 2: a sinner, you will destroy the family. Whatever it is

336
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,639
Speaker 2: he's threatening you with, he has been threatening you for

337
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 2: your whole life up to this point.

338
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Speaker 4: Yes, and I actually didn't say this yet. But when

339
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 4: I turned into a little woman, actually I became, you know,

340
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 4: like eleven twelve years old, I started having struggles like

341
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,640
Speaker 4: every little girl. I didn't know anything. I didn't even

342
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,159
Speaker 4: know about my cycle. Finally my mother had told me

343
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 4: about it. But I was supposed to go to my

344
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,879
Speaker 4: father about every thing I thought or did or was

345
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 4: wrong or I felt shame about. And in this station,

346
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 4: I actually went to my mom because I was scared to.

347
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,120
Speaker 5: Tell my dad about that kind of stuff.

348
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 4: I didn't want to talk about personal things with my father,

349
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 4: but I knew I posed too, So I went to

350
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 4: my mom and she reassured me, yeah, you need to.

351
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 5: Talk to Papa about that.

352
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 4: So I just remember sitting on this wooden bench in

353
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Speaker 4: her kitchen, and I was about eleven twelve, No, I

354
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,919
Speaker 4: was about fourteen actually, because when I turned around eleven

355
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 4: and twelve years old, I was no longer allowed to

356
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 4: be seen by the world. Even if we went to town,

357
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,679
Speaker 4: I was supposed to hide under the dash or have

358
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 4: a curtain shut. Brothers could get out and like go

359
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 4: with my father into the store, the gas station, and

360
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:45,440
Speaker 4: I wasn't allowed to be seen.

361
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 3: What is your conception of the reason for that?

362
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 4: Now?

363
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,120
Speaker 5: He was hiding me out?

364
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 4: Obviously, I know now that he was not wanting the

365
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,159
Speaker 4: world to know that I even existed, because I was

366
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 4: going to become his own sex slave. But my father

367
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 4: had told me, well, in this time of being interrogated,

368
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 4: he would interrogate me, interrogate me for every thought I

369
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 4: had had with my mom sitting beside him, and I

370
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 4: explained that I had felt these feelings. It's embarrassing to say,

371
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 4: but like it was just a little innocent girl trying

372
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 4: to understand what happened. He said, someday, I'll explain to

373
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 4: you what that is. And there's something special about it,

374
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 4: but I'm not going to tell you about that now.

375
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 4: Some time after that and then he sent me out

376
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 4: of the house, told me I was a whore and

377
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 4: that I was a strange woman, like the proverb said.

378
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 5: And I was beaten and I was punished for like

379
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 5: a month.

380
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 3: This was when you got your period.

381
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 4: Because I had confessed that I had been touching myself.

382
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes, yes, okay, And he.

383
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 4: Grilled me for all my thoughts, which my thoughts had

384
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 4: gone to some in his mind was evil. So at

385
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 4: the end of that period of time of like a

386
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 4: month of really really punished, deep horrible punishment, he said,

387
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take you on a trip and puts me

388
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 4: in this little cheap and he takes me down the mountain.

389
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 5: It makes me hide.

390
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 4: Under the desk every time we got around people. And

391
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 4: he pulled off to the side and he said, well,

392
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 4: would you like me to tell you about it? And

393
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 4: I was terrified, so I told him no, I'd rather not.

394
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 5: I just want to stay pure.

395
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 4: I don't want to hear anything about it, I'd rather not,

396
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 4: but really I was saving myself. And so at nineteen

397
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 4: years old, now he's saying, I'm telling you what that is.

398
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: Now do you think that he believed and what he

399
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: was saying or was he just a sociopath who knew

400
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: he could control his family like this.

401
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 4: I just know my father was very smart. He was

402
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 4: very good at what he did. He knew how to

403
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 4: make me feel crazy. I'm still learning what it all

404
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 4: happened to me. He would beat me black and blue,

405
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 4: and every time he would just love it. But usually

406
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 4: my no was a pulling back, my no, I don't

407
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 4: understand and questioning how can this be right? You know,

408
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: how can God say this is okay? I mean, aren't

409
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 4: you treating me like a wife? And I'm begging in

410
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 4: a way that's not saying it, because if I do,

411
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 4: that's the end.

412
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 2: The level of control he had over you while you've

413
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: been isolated with this man your entire life, Like even

414
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 2: if you weren't saying anything, that's not a consensual sexual relationship.

415
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, so tell us how you ended up

416
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: moving to Alaska and when.

417
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the move to Alaska was really my father

418
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 4: running from the wall and seeking to find something further

419
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 4: out into the wilderness. That was you know, we lived

420
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 4: in the rocky mountains at nine thousand feet in the

421
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 4: mountains of New Mexico, and this was like really quite isolated.

422
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 4: But in his mind the world was moving in and

423
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 4: people were starting to move up the mountain build and well,

424
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 4: actually it all started from him taking in a woman,

425
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 4: not just taking in a woman, convincing her to leave

426
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 4: her husband and to take on our religion, her and

427
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 4: her daughter. And she was pregnant too, so she buries

428
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 4: her ring underneath a tree and disappears with my mom

429
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 4: and the kids. And in the midst of all that,

430
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 4: you know, my father breaks my shoulder because he has

431
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 4: me hould up this trailer. Out of his anger, he

432
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 4: backs up and like literally smashes me. Then he starts

433
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 4: screaming and yelling at me and shoot all the horses.

434
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 4: He was just kidding about his crazy because he knew

435
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 4: the law was moving in m He asked how smart

436
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 4: he was.

437
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 5: I didn't even know why.

438
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 4: I just knew he was already to kill somebody, and

439
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: he almost did kill me many times.

440
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 3: But how did he meet this woman?

441
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 4: He would suddenly make different changes and I'll be honest

442
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 4: with you. Little by little, I was starting to see

443
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 4: the light in the sense that the things he taught

444
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 4: us was suddenly could change if he.

445
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 5: Said it was okay to change the truth.

446
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 4: So he says, you know, we're supposed to stay on

447
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 4: this mountain, and this is our sanctuary. This is where

448
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 4: we're going to live out the end days and all

449
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 4: this stuff. And then suddenly we're leaving the mountain and

450
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 4: we're taking our horses. We kill all our sheep, my

451
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 4: little babas I weep, and we canned them up in jars.

452
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 4: I could not eat the meat. But we leave the

453
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 4: mountain and we go down south into some forest and

454
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 4: where we find, you know, grazing our horses. And meanwhile

455
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: we put up a big teepee lodge and my mom

456
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 4: has a baby, which I helped deliver.

457
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 5: I became my mom's midwife. Really the truth.

458
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 4: But it just blew this family way who came and

459
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 4: met us out there, and they're like, oh my God,

460
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 4: like what in the.

461
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 5: Is going on?

462
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 4: Like we want to do this, But they would hang

463
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 4: out with us sometimes, and my father would do this

464
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 4: with people and families who would try to convert them

465
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 4: and that could be one way if we could convert

466
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 4: them to believing.

467
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 5: Just like us.

468
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: So he pretty much had this woman converted, and she

469
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 4: was going through the same thing. She thought she was crazy.

470
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 5: I watched her.

471
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 4: I remember I hadn't eaten, like I don't know how

472
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 4: many days, and I was just laying there on the

473
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 4: ground up against the campfire and listening to her and

474
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 4: watching her and seeing her mind be shaped and formed

475
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 4: into believing she was crazy and that she was religiously wrong,

476
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 4: and that her husband wasn't going to listen, and that

477
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 4: she needed to change. She went from crying to being

478
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 4: like I can't believe this, to confession to all this stuff,

479
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 4: and before you know it, her husband wouldn't change, so

480
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 4: she had to leave. She comes with us, and you know,

481
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 4: they were chasing us all over and it was scary,

482
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: really scary.

483
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: I feel like I missed it.

484
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 4: The police, the police over National Guard looking for this

485
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 4: woman and her daughter.

486
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

487
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. They wouldn't even put my father in jail because

488
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 4: they wanted to catch us with them.

489
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, okay, so you guys are now on

490
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: the run. And he also, I remember in the book,

491
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: it's like you get paid to live in Alaska. Correct,

492
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: So he's like, the government's going to pay us to

493
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: live in Alaska.

494
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 4: And you know what, I didn't know about money. I

495
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 4: didn't know that you had to make money. All I

496
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 4: knew was that you had to get meat. You had

497
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 4: to find food. We would go to you know, the

498
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 4: grain reason and pick shovel in our trucks all the

499
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 4: grain that's built over the edge. We had to be

500
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 4: a roof and gathering foods. We had to go to

501
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 4: the whole neighborhoods and find all the fruit that was

502
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 4: fallen in their yards.

503
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 5: I never thought you bought food.

504
00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, looking back, I realized that my father was probably

505
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 6: maybe a little bit in a panic because at this

506
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 6: point we were, you know, poaching animals, even though that

507
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 6: was another way that I felt like God loved me because.

508
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: For us, because like we never actually ran out of food.

509
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 4: I mean, we'd be almost out of food and we'd

510
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: bring down an animal and I'd be like, yes, he

511
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 4: does care about us. We have food again. But we

512
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 4: went from that wild lifestyle to like traveling to Alaska,

513
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 4: digging in trash cans, and sometimes we'd dig into trash

514
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 4: cans and there would be human waste. And then there

515
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: was times we found a lot of food. But my

516
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 4: body was angry because I went from eating, you know,

517
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 4: pasture fed animals and like organic animals. Yeah, I'd grind

518
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 4: up the corn from the barn, which probably wasn't the

519
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: best if it was for animals, and who knows what

520
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: kind of stuff was on it. But still we were

521
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 4: eating like we called it barn patties. And I'd fried

522
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 4: into the oil or the grease from the sheep. And

523
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 4: we asked how we ate now. We didn't really have

524
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 4: a lot of vegetables. It was we're too high in

525
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 4: the mountains that really grow much. But we'd eat wild

526
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: plants and cook them up, called it spinach and tried

527
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 4: not to choke it out of my But now we're

528
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 4: eating out of trash cans, and I'm feeling really sick.

529
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 5: I'm gaining weight.

530
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 4: My father's angry. He's telling me I can't eat anymore.

531
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 4: I'm not allowed to even eat a bite of food

532
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: unless I show it to him. Wow, life is horrible.

533
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 4: I think he's right. This world is dark, it's evil.

534
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: We go into the stores and we're all barefoot. The

535
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 4: manager shows up with the police and they're all saying,

536
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 4: you know, we don't want you coming in the store.

537
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 4: You're all barefoot, and my father's fighting with them and

538
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 4: saying you're just evil. The world's evil, and we're all

539
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: kicked out. I feel like a dog with my head

540
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 4: between my leg I mean, I'm telling you, I'm I'm

541
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 4: ashamed of the world. The world's ashamed of me. He

542
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 4: sends me with a child needs my arm, and the

543
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 4: knock on people's doors and say we need gas money

544
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 4: and people in my mind, you're almost spitting in my face,

545
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 4: and I'm going to my father. I'm like, I can't

546
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 4: do this. I can't do this. I feel like we're lying.

547
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 4: We have enough gas money to make it to the

548
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 4: next and we can make a lot of money too,

549
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 4: because people would feel sorry for us. He would be

550
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 4: so angry and call me a man pleaser. I was

551
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 4: just trying to please the world. And so then we

552
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 4: get to Alaska and we're fish out of water. The

553
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: only way he can beat us. And we're like in

554
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 4: this junk yard or we're squatting a tiny little cabin

555
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 4: out in the middle of nowhere. It's really cold compared

556
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 4: to what we're used to. We're practically getting frozen, puts

557
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 4: rags in our mouth to beat us behind, you know, Junkyard,

558
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 4: And to me the world was dark. I wanted the wilderness.

559
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: The end is coming. So we had to be back

560
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 4: in New Mexico where our caves were. But nothing happened.

561
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: I mean, Ronald Reagan was supposed to be the beast,

562
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: but that never happened. Either would like I was wrong?

563
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: Would he ever be like, so, who do you acknowledge it?

564
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: Or would he just say like God changed his mind?

565
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: He spared us, Like what would he say?

566
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 4: You know what? He didn't bring it up. Oh really,

567
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: I was scared to bring it up. Yeah, but I

568
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: just call myself. If I bring it up, he's just

569
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: gonna tell me that Ronald Reagan will come alive again.

570
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 4: Oh okay, you know what we made through White t K.

571
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: My last little sister was born there, and then we

572
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 4: moved to Alaska, and that's a long It took us

573
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: a long way. We smuggled to the border, a hawk,

574
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: a raven, a baby bear, a whole bunch of goats,

575
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 4: a whole bunch of dogs. Guns. We had all our

576
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 4: forty one Chevy trucks and the bus and my dad.

577
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 4: We made all his planned. He had to stop along

578
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: the way and we all dressed up like we were

579
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 4: amish and grabbed their instruments when we got to the

580
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 4: border and played them a song. And they're like, man,

581
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: you guys are amazing old fashioned family. Just go on.

582
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 4: You guys are so.

583
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: Good at evating the loss. Yeah, and tricking people.

584
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 4: But two years where like all over the place, and

585
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: he's panic about money. Everything was a sacrifice for what

586
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: he wanted. And so when we get to Alaska, he

587
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 4: had us kids doing jobs and people would hire us

588
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 4: and then they'd say, oh, you didn't do the job

589
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 4: right and send us out the door. And so as

590
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 4: kids started to learn that even our work, nothing about

591
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: us was worth anything to even others. But when I

592
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 4: went to work with my brothers, my father would sit

593
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,239
Speaker 4: and watch me. He took pictures of me on a

594
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: phone where he naked pictures, and he was sit in

595
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: the car and watched that. And he would watch me

596
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 4: and make sure I did things right. And I, you know,

597
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 4: was not allowed to talk to a man or anybody,

598
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 4: And so I'd be like sitting there with my brothers

599
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 4: working and if I had a question for the boss,

600
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 4: I'd be looking at my brother asking what I needed,

601
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 4: because it wasn't allowed to look at them or ask

602
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 4: them anything. So I would have to go through my

603
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: brothers to ask the question two of the boss.

604
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: Did the abuse get worse in Alaska?

605
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 4: I would have to say, yes, the abuse grew and

606
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: grew and grew. It only got worse and worse and worse.

607
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 4: Because one of the problems was I started seeing the light.

608
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 4: You know, you can't help from being around the world

609
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 4: and start seeing things. I thought every daughter had to

610
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: be there. Her father's like, you know, concubine, Yeah, but

611
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 4: I saw wow. So he got to the point where

612
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: he would take me off for hours. And you know,

613
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: I haven't said this, but he convinced me that if

614
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 4: it was found in the Bible, because I was always like, how,

615
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 4: where does the Bible say it's okay? Like please tell me,

616
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 4: Like I don't understand, Like, how does that mean the Bible?

617
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 4: Sure the Bible is saying that? Because I was just questioning,

618
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 4: He said, I can show you something. Your mom she

619
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 4: knows the Bible. She can read. If there's anything in

620
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: there that says that I'm that this is wrong, she'll

621
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 4: tell you. And instead he drew her into it, and

622
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 4: whether she had a choice or not that I'm gonna

623
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 4: leave that up to her, like that's something I'm sensitive

624
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 4: to talk about. But she joined in, and so it

625
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: was the three of us for the most part, but

626
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 4: at the same time there was It got to the

627
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 4: point where he would take me off and he would

628
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: yell for hours and hours and just knock me in

629
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 4: the head and knock me out and then throw me

630
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: down in his lap and make me perform for him.

631
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: And then I'm passing now constantly. And he was drinking.

632
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: He started drinking, and then he got a pink of

633
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 4: eye as attacked, so he had to stop drinking or

634
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 4: that would kill him. But nothing changed. He just got

635
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 4: worse and worse, and pretty much like all of a sudden,

636
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 4: we had a change. Things got a little happy. We

637
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 4: found this place out in the middle of the wilderness again,

638
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 4: and that's what's gonna save our life. Were going to

639
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: get out of what he called the wilderness, and that

640
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 4: was the world, and we were going back to the

641
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 4: woods at the mountains. And as exciting as we thought

642
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 4: that might be, no, it got worse. And it didn't

643
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: just get worse sexually. It got so violent I mean,

644
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 4: I think I came so close to death so many times.

645
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: When you were injured.

646
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: Would he take you to the hospital or like, how

647
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: would you get treated?

648
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 4: Oh? No, we didn't go to the hospital. The hospital

649
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 4: was not a place to go to. It wasn't an

650
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 4: evil place. Although when I was twelve he took me there.

651
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 4: I would have died. Actually if he hadn't, I had

652
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 4: a pinacitis for days and days, and it was it's

653
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: actually like a miracle. It doesn't make sense. I'm I'm

654
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 4: talking about days of being in so much pain where

655
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 4: you're trying to like you almost eat something you got.

656
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 4: I mean, you're going to chew up the blanket to

657
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 4: the point where I was passed out by the time

658
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 4: they got me there. But that's the only time, and

659
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 4: then it's just a blooming miracle. My mom never had problems,

660
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 4: like had fifteen kids out in the middle of nowhere.

661
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: Wow.

662
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 4: So when I had to fill and it was compligated.

663
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: Right, So you're you guys were on your eyes were lucky? Yeah,

664
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: on your own out there.

665
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 4: He beat me up so bad. It's very very together.

666
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 4: He knew how to keep others from seeing my wounds.

667
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 4: And there was time though that I know, I just

668
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: big bruise on my face. My jaw was like almost broken.

669
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 4: He told me, just tell them you fell on the ice,

670
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 4: and I did. People didn't believe me, but they couldn't

671
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 4: do anything about it. Yeah. So it reached the point

672
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 4: where I couldn't even see through my eyes and he

673
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 4: had knocked me out so many times and ended it

674
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 4: with raping me, and of woke up just not wondering,

675
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 4: wondering who I was. What he used against me actually

676
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 4: became my help because like the Bible, the King James

677
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 4: Bible was used against me. But the words that came

678
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 4: to me when I was on the floor getting take

679
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 4: my last breath was I'll never leave you forsaken, and

680
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 4: I won't give you more than you can bear. In

681
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 4: other words, I heard, I got this, I can make it.

682
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 4: I can get up again. And I would just feel

683
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 4: I couldn't really see, you know, a bench and pull

684
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 4: myself up. Wow, Because in those moments where I think

685
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 4: that's one of the beauties in my story is that

686
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 4: I think it's in everyone's story if you can open

687
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 4: your eyes to see it, and for so long I couldn't.

688
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 4: Because but you can read my book out of the

689
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 4: wilderness and find you know, this story of escaping my

690
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 4: father and finally coming to myself and realizing that I

691
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 4: was going to die. All this time I thought I

692
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 4: had to stay because either my mother or my siblings

693
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 4: were going to die and something was wrong. Also i'd

694
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 4: be going against God. Well, it was actually when I

695
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 4: turned twenty nine, my twenty ninth birthday, where I was

696
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: in this room and he locked me in there. He

697
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 4: didn't want me to come out, he told me, And

698
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 4: I say, locked me in there. He didn't have to

699
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: have a key and a lock. Yeah, the locking you

700
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 4: come out of there, then else. But I was ready

701
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 4: to crawl this a little bed and take my last breath.

702
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like I could just do that. I

703
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 4: don't know if I'm sure anyone hearing my story who's

704
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: been there would know what I'm talking about. You can

705
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 4: actually decide to live or go ahead and die. Like wow,

706
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 4: And I picked up the Bible and I found you know,

707
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 4: I'm a shepherd. I love sheep, I love animals. And

708
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 4: I loved David, Oh my word, he just spoke my

709
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: heart so many times. He'd be like in the pit

710
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 4: and then you know he was out of the pit again,

711
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 4: and so I opened up the Bible, and I find

712
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 4: when my father and my mother forsake me, that's when

713
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 4: the Lord will take me up. And I can't take

714
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 4: this that came upon me that twenty ninth birthday, where

715
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: I wrote out on a piece of I copied that out.

716
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 5: That was a big deal for me.

717
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 4: I snuck out of that room and I hung it

718
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: up on the beam in the middle of the room.

719
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 4: And I was saying in that moment that I had

720
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 4: a God that was so much greater than my father was,

721
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 4: and that he had lied to me all those years.

722
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 4: And so I went to my father and I said,

723
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 4: I'm lying. I've lied to you every time I told

724
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 4: you I love you. Wow, it's not the truth. And

725
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 4: he turned white and he beat me for another month

726
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 4: or two. Every night, drug me to bed. I couldn't

727
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 4: go anywhere, couldn't get sleep unless I was performing for him,

728
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 4: until I finally decided there is nothing else to do.

729
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 4: He's threatened to get me pregnant. He's threatening to hide

730
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 4: me in a log cabin for the rest of my

731
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 4: life out in the woods. I got to get away,

732
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 4: and so I left and I escaped.

733
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: You know, the escape story is a huge part of

734
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: the story.

735
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: Even the specifics of like how you physically survived and

736
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: like how you had to navigate Alaska, Alaska in the winter. Yeah,

737
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just absolutely incredible.

738
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: And the ice breaking you have to do it before

739
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: the ice breaks. It's just a perfect movie story. It's

740
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: just so symbolic.

741
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 4: If there's one part of that story that was a

742
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 4: highlight for me, that's when after all these things of

743
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 4: not be only get away machines breaking down, you know,

744
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 4: afraid my dad's gonna find me and all this stuff,

745
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 4: where I'm finally like, okay, I'm gonna go. This machine

746
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 4: is working now and we live what fourteen miles up

747
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 4: deep into the wilderness, steep mountains. There's no way out.

748
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 4: The snow is really deep. It's about twenty blow zero now,

749
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: it's almost it's getting towards spring.

750
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: And put those zeros on.

751
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 4: Say my father has gone down the mountain. I'm basically

752
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: on a chain. I'm never allowed out of his sight.

753
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 4: But because my brothers had already left, you know, I'm

754
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 4: going to be polluted by them if I even get

755
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 4: in their presence. So now he's gonna leave me in

756
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: the wilderness. But this was my perfect opportunity. But then

757
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 4: he leaves everything sabotaged to make sure I can't get away.

758
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 4: We find a way, just like that little plant, working

759
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 4: this way through that concrete. And then when all seems

760
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 4: so bad, and I know he has a pistol on

761
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 4: the side and he's gonna find me if I don't

762
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 4: make it to the bottom of this mountain in the

763
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 4: middle of the winter. I think the highlight was I'm

764
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 4: going down the trail and my sister's with me. She

765
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 4: wanted to come with me, my sixteen year old sister.

766
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 4: I'm twenty nine. I'm going to wilderness. But she talked

767
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 4: me in to meet with my brothers. And I'm like, okay,

768
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 4: we have lost so much time. He's gonna show up soon,

769
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 4: and it's going to be the end. We're gonna have

770
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 4: to keep going. And my brain saying, oh God, I

771
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 4: have sin, the greatest sin. You are against me. This

772
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 4: is why I can't get away. I've done the wrong thing.

773
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 4: And now I guess it's either run for my life,

774
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 4: go back and die and pay the price. And I'm

775
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 4: headed up this hill, get to the top of the hill,

776
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: and my snow machine runs out of gas. There's nothing

777
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: worse that could happen. But then the best thing ever

778
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 4: could have happened happened next. And that's when I look

779
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 4: and there was no machines sitting here where we had

780
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 4: left it because it had run out of gas previous

781
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 4: trip coming up our mountain and my father I had said,

782
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: you know, he might fill it up with gas. And

783
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 4: we run to that machine and it's full of gas,

784
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 4: and we throw everything on that machine and we make

785
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 4: it off the hill just some time to cover up

786
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 4: with these white sheets before my father comes by. And

787
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 4: to me, that's the crux of I wasn't alone, right,

788
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 4: God was there again, But I think it's times like that.

789
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: And as I look back now after I think spent

790
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 4: seventeen years since that day I escaped, realizing through the

791
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 4: years that I was not all those things. As I

792
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 4: sorted out the huge pile of rocks that were nothing

793
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 4: but shame, And the only shame that was for me

794
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 4: to own was the lies that I believed about myself

795
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 4: and the self worth and thinking that that's all I

796
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 4: was created for, even though that's what I was taught,

797
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: even that's not one to own because I actually believed

798
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 4: what I was taught. We believe in what we're taught,

799
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 4: of course, and we call it outtruthing the lies, like

800
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 4: what is the truth? But then over the years, you know,

801
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 4: we hear hurt people, hurt people, just like my father did.

802
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 4: And I had to recognize inside myself that it was

803
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 4: more important what happened side of me than what happened

804
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 4: to me, because inside of me, I had become to

805
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: believe something that was a complete lie about who I was.

806
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 4: And I have to come to the point where it

807
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 4: doesn't matter what I had been through or what I've

808
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 4: become to make me worth being loved. So I've lived

809
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 4: to tell the story. I really truly believe that I

810
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 4: have such a heart to give the message to people

811
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 4: that don't give up your strength to keep pushing on,

812
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 4: like I'm going to use that little crack in the concrete.

813
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 4: You know, you weren't made to be a seed that

814
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 4: was planted in the ground and then buried under the concrete,

815
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 4: just scraped over the top of you and smushed out

816
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 4: of life. And yet you have such strength in the

817
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 4: midst of all that to come out and find the sunshine.

818
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 4: That's what God created us for. He gave us that ability,

819
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 4: and in my mind, if we could outchoose those lies

820
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 4: and recognize that the worst part is our reactions to

821
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 4: those lies, right like where we close off and we

822
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 4: push out relationship or we sabotage relationships, or we go

823
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 4: to addictions like you know, drinking or drugs or food,

824
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 4: or it all comes out of not believing that we

825
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 4: really are worth it. And I love telling the story

826
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 4: because I want people to realize that you can actually

827
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 4: come out of that. But part of the story for

828
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 4: me is recognizing my own shame and how I owned

829
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 4: all that and just like giving it away, like releasing

830
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 4: that and becoming new and realizing that I've always had

831
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 4: that worth.

832
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: Oh, your story is going to change so many people's lives.

833
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: So just to kind of wrap up what happened with

834
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: your dad, he actually did end up going to jail, right.

835
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 4: Yes, I was sitting on a log and someone came

836
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 4: to me and said, your father has been turned in.

837
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 4: He got in a fight with your brother and the

838
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 4: police want to talk to you. And I dumped out

839
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 4: my story for the first time when they looked at

840
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 4: me and said, whoa, you have been raped And I'm

841
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 4: like what, And so that moment of you can save

842
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 4: your people, your family, Are you going to stand up?

843
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, but that's evil, and they're like,

844
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 4: the truth will set you free. And so I stood

845
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 4: up and my father went to jail. Well, they had

846
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 4: a warmth for his rest for a while, but he

847
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 4: went to jail. But the crazy part was, even though

848
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 4: he was in jail, it didn't fix me. He couldn't

849
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 4: physically get me. But I had an invisible chain that

850
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 4: had to be undone, and there was really no one

851
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 4: that could change that. Whether my father was in jail,

852
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 4: I had to choose to undo that chain.

853
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 3: Okay, y'all.

854
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 2: So we ran out of time in our original interview

855
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: with Alicia Ba and didn't get to the part of

856
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 2: the story that's probably the most important, which is our healing.

857
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: So we did talk to her again. So the audio

858
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: quality is going to change a little bit here. So

859
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: can you tell us little bit about your mental state

860
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 2: after you escaped?

861
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 3: What were you feeling, what were you thinking.

862
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 4: I would have to say that when I escaped, I

863
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 4: was so naive of the world and I only had

864
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 4: one thing in mind, and that was to get away,

865
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 4: to save my life, to save my family's life, whatever

866
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 4: that took. And probably even more than that, I realized

867
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 4: that it wasn't my job anymore to save my family.

868
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 4: But I couldn't get rid of that role I had

869
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 4: in my life, and that that had been given to me,

870
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 4: so I had it ingrained into my heart. And I

871
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 4: remember laying underneath that big, huge pine tree in the snow,

872
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 4: in my snow pants, inside a sleeping bag. And even

873
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 4: when you are out in the woods, underneath a big,

874
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 4: big pine tree, you can find a place where there's

875
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 4: no snow because it's big, and you can lay up

876
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 4: beneath there. But it was twenty below zero, probably at night,

877
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 4: and very very cold. So I just laid there, shaking

878
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: and shivering, and I remember my sister was just afraid

879
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 4: that I was going to die. But I was shaking

880
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 4: not just from the cold. I was shaking from the shock,

881
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 4: the shock of what I had done. And in my mind,

882
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 4: the mental state I was in was confusion. I didn't

883
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 4: know if I had done the right thing. I started

884
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 4: hearing all those words coming to my head that my

885
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 4: father had ingrained in my mind that if I left,

886
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 4: I would kill him, he would die.

887
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 5: I wasn't there to save his.

888
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 4: Life, and if I didn't stay with him, that everybody

889
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 4: else would die. He always had his number one prayer,

890
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 4: and that was that we would either live or die

891
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 4: together as a family. And I don't know, it was

892
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 4: ingrained in my mind that if my father died, we

893
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 4: were all going to die. And now I had really

894
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 4: messed up. I'd gone against God. I had gone against

895
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 4: this lifelong prayer and this curse. Really, so my mental

896
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 4: state was pretty much a mess and very confused.

897
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 2: How did you adjust to life in regular society after

898
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: being so isolated for so long and living this like

899
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: wilderness life.

900
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 4: It took like three weeks for my brothers to talk

901
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 4: me into going to this family's house that was willing

902
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 4: to take us in, or we were just going to

903
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 4: go visit, really, but when we got there, I remember

904
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 4: their open arms and their love and their joy. But

905
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 4: I walked into their house and I was red at

906
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 4: the face, burnt from the sun, and my hands and

907
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 4: my body were calloused, and I stank. I hadn't taken showers,

908
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 4: and a long time I was a wilderness girl. I

909
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 4: didn't know anything other than just keep myself neat and tidy.

910
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 4: And I liked that my skirt was covered with patches

911
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: in my you know, knives and guns and all that

912
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 4: hung around my waist. And someone told me one time

913
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 4: that I looked like Antioakley. But I walked into their house,

914
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 4: which seemed so foreign, so out of my world, but

915
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 4: it was so full of love and it was so

916
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 4: inviting as they brought us in.

917
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 5: And then I don't know.

918
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 4: I think it must have been around lunchtime, because they

919
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 4: declared lunchtime, and because they had a lot of kids themselves.

920
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 4: Everybody lined up that a buffet thing and said girls first,

921
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 4: and since you're the guest, you go first. Boy. I

922
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 4: was ready to climb under the couch. I wanted to

923
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 4: crawl under the couch and hide, but I pressed on

924
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 4: got in front of the line. I hadn't eaten in

925
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 4: front of people before. I wasn't allowed to eat. I

926
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 4: had been given the job to serve my family, serve

927
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 4: my father, and I was supposed to show my father

928
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 4: all the food I ate, and he would just on

929
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 4: a whim tell me I wasn't allowed to eat. But

930
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 4: despite all that, I was under the impression that a

931
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 4: girl's job was to serve and not go first. That

932
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 4: was last I didn't eat my food in front of people.

933
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 4: So I remember they had salad, which was a big treat,

934
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 4: big treat for us, and then there was like beans,

935
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,479
Speaker 4: And the funny thing was they were kind of doing

936
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 4: a family diet thing, and to me, this was like

937
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 4: eating at a king's house. And I remember sitting in

938
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 4: the living room and we all sat around, and I

939
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 4: had a salad in my hand, but I was so

940
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 4: conscious of every bite, every tube, and it just felt terrifying.

941
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 4: I was literally frightened to eat in front of everybody

942
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 4: as we all gathered around in the living room and

943
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 4: watched each other eat. So that can give you a

944
00:49:55,239 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 4: little picture of my culture shock in society. But then

945
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 4: things like money. I had never owned money. I had

946
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 4: worked a lot of jobs and worked with my family,

947
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 4: and you know, I hadn't actually worked with my brothers.

948
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 4: Once we got to Alaska, we would go and do

949
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 4: sheet rock and I would blow away.

950
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 5: I'd blow away these men.

951
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 4: And when I showed up in my dresses and carrie

952
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 4: heavy pieces of sheet rock or lumber or anything, because

953
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 4: I was really strong. And the other thing happened as

954
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 4: I remember going to the store and trying to go

955
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 4: shopping and looking at the tags and trying to figure

956
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 4: out how do you shop?

957
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 5: And I'd freak out. One time after I was married.

958
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 4: Two years later, I got married and my husband dropped

959
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 4: me off because we were riding together in his dump

960
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 4: truck where he was working. He dropped me off to

961
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 4: get some groceries, and I went into the store and

962
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 4: walked along the aisles, and it's like everything foggy. I

963
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 4: couldn't even see, but I would see the things and

964
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 4: I would go, well, this looks good. We could use this,

965
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 4: and we could use that. But I couldn't figure out

966
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: how much am I supposed to spend. So I'm holding

967
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 4: a certain amount of money in my hand and I'm thinking, Okay,

968
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 4: how do I add this up? I don't even know how,

969
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 4: except I had learned some schooling. For that first two years,

970
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 4: I did homeschooling, which was another culture shock, as I

971
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 4: like sat with all these all my siblings, the little ones,

972
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 4: and I'm in first grade, second grade. From third grade.

973
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 4: I made it quickly to fifth grade. But it was

974
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 4: like trying to figure out how I could be thirty

975
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 4: years old doing school with a five year old and

976
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 4: be in the same grade. So it would throw me

977
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 4: into depression and then I would just run off into

978
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 4: the mountains and hide in the woods for days sometimes.

979
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 3: And what was your healing process?

980
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: Like did you go to therapy? Like how did you

981
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 2: overcome this?

982
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 4: Yes, the healing process was hardcoming for me, a long journey,

983
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 4: and it takes time. It takes a lot of time

984
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 4: to even understand what's happened to you when you've gone

985
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 4: through that psychological, spiritual abuse and occult And I had

986
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 4: grown up believing the person who had taught me everything,

987
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 4: and now I had broke away. And as things began

988
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 4: to make sense and the truth started showing me the wrong,

989
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 4: it revealed the layers and the layers of my own heart.

990
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 4: And I realized one day when doctor Larry Severson spoke

991
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 4: at a conference, he said, it was more important what

992
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 4: happens inside of us than what happened to us. And

993
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 4: it hit because I looked back and I realized that

994
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 4: all those times that someone had tried to love me

995
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 4: and still struggle with it's hard to trust. It's hard

996
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 4: to know that if someone loves me, it doesn't have

997
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 4: an agenda or they don't have some sort of reason

998
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 4: or purpose for them, and that I can actually be

999
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 4: loved or the experience of my counsel I did. I

1000
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 4: went to counsel but took me a while. Took me

1001
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 4: a while to even believe that going to counseling was

1002
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 4: a healthy thing to do. I thought people who went

1003
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 4: to counseling were people who were like ruined and destroyed.

1004
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 4: And I knew I was ruined and destroyed, but boy,

1005
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 4: I didn't want to believe it. So I started working

1006
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 4: over time to prove to the world, prove to everyone

1007
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 4: around me, that I was actually better than that, and

1008
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 4: somehow I could do all this I am and finally

1009
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 4: accepting that, wow, this stuff was done to me, it's

1010
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 4: not even my fault, and if I can accept it,

1011
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 4: I can look at it, I could actually move forward.

1012
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 4: And so I pictured myself with a pile of rocks

1013
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 4: in front of me, and I'm sorting them out, and

1014
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 4: the rocks were called shame. And it's like the shame

1015
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 4: I carried was so heavy that it weighed me down

1016
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 4: with depression. So my life now is one of pressing

1017
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 4: on every day to realize that life has so many

1018
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 4: lessons and everywhere you turn it can bring you back

1019
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 4: to the past. It can be a trigger but I've

1020
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: had to choose and receive that the past could either

1021
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 4: live with me or I can choose joy. I can

1022
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 4: choose redemption and I can choose change. And so I

1023
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 4: have done a lot of listening to other people and

1024
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 4: their stories. It really does a lot of I don't know,

1025
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 4: encouragement because I'm hearing other people and their stories and

1026
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 4: I'm willing to walk with them only because I faced

1027
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 4: my own story. Otherwise it would be too painful. But

1028
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 4: I believe pain is a gift and something that helps

1029
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,720
Speaker 4: us open up and let others see that they're not alone.

1030
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 4: It also helps us hear someone else's pain because we're

1031
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 4: not afraid of pain anymore. We recognize that pain is

1032
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 4: a gift and that we all have a story, and

1033
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 4: our stories are something that doesn't define us, but it

1034
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 4: also gives us a tool if we can let it

1035
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 4: be a gift. So I've allowed my story to become

1036
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 4: a gift, not only in my life to move forward

1037
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 4: and to make a difference for those around me. I've

1038
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 4: also used my own story to recognize the truth in

1039
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 4: how I was spiritually abused, so that I can truly

1040
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 4: believe in God who does love me. And then it Also,

1041
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,439
Speaker 4: my story has helped me press into what my children need,

1042
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 4: and not only what I shouldn't be, and not what

1043
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 4: I should be, but what I am and what God

1044
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 4: made me to be. And I believe that we're all

1045
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 4: given the gift to be a good mother a good

1046
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 4: father to our kids. We're built for it. That's what

1047
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 4: we're made to do. And it might be harder when

1048
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 4: we have a past that's taught us a certain way.

1049
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 4: But on the other hand, it comes natural because we

1050
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 4: naturally love and protect our children and then those around

1051
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,479
Speaker 4: us and others. And so I think that would sum

1052
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 4: up my life in a few words.

1053
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 5: I love to write.

1054
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 4: I love to tell a story, and that's become a

1055
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 4: gift I have, even though I didn't have the schooling.

1056
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 4: I make sure I get help if I need help,

1057
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 4: and I get to use Siri on my phone and

1058
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 4: dictate a lot because that helps me write it down

1059
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 4: when I don't know how to spell. I love teaching

1060
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 4: my children, and I think I'm really good at teaching

1061
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 4: my children about life and life skills, principle and heartfelt knowledge,

1062
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 4: heartfelt understanding of what they're going through, entering in with

1063
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 4: them and listening to what they need being in tune,

1064
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 4: being intuitive to others and their stories. Knowing the story

1065
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 4: makes all the difference. When you see somebody respond in

1066
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 4: a certain way, I can recognize their story even without

1067
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 4: hearing their story. I can't judge or assume, but I

1068
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 4: can see their story and not be triggered by it

1069
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 4: because you see people different, so it changes things for you.

1070
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 4: When you live the story of horrible, horrible, horrendous abuse,

1071
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 4: or even just some abuse, our stories are also different.

1072
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 4: But for me, mine was herrendous and because I faced

1073
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 4: it head on, learned about it, invited Jesus into it,

1074
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 4: a different Jesus than I was taught and pressed on

1075
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 4: to love and find relationship. Now my story helps me

1076
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 4: be in tune to others and their story.

1077
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:19,439
Speaker 2: People can read all about it in your book, which

1078
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: is called Out of the Wilderness. Are you on social media?

1079
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: Is there where can people find you?

1080
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 4: Yes? I have Facebook Elishapa Dirkson, E L I S

1081
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 4: H A d A is Elishapa and d O E

1082
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,959
Speaker 4: r K S E N Dirkson, and then I also

1083
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 4: have a website just Alishaba dot com. But mostly you

1084
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 4: can find my book if you go to Out of

1085
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 4: the Wilderness Book dot.

1086
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 1: Com can't recommend it highly enough read it in a day.

1087
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 2: I just want to say, I think you're absolutely incredible.

1088
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 2: What an inspiration of a person. I cannot believe that

1089
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 2: you came out of this and have been able to

1090
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: tell your story.

1091
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: You're so smart, you're so oh you're just wondering.

1092
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: And process it the way that you have, Like it's

1093
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: just absolutely incredibly impressive, and I can't wait to see

1094
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: how you continue to thrive in your life.

1095
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 3: So thanks for sharing your story with us.

1096
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for.

1097
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 4: Speaking with us, absolutely and thanks for inviting me and

1098
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 4: keep it up. That's awesome what you're doing.

1099
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: I feel like that is akin to living through just

1100
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: wartime torture, Like I don't She's been through so much

1101
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: and I can't even like fathom the amount of strength

1102
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: that it takes to heal and move on and live

1103
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: a real full life after something like that, and I

1104
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 2: just find it so incredibly impressive.

1105
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: She's amazing.

1106
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, what do you.

1107
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: Feel about overcoming this kind of adversity?

1108
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: I mean, like, well, it certainly harkens back to the

1109
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: episodes we did on resiliency and trauma and speaks to

1110
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: how you can go through hell and if you have

1111
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: the tools. I mean, she's living a really healthy life.

1112
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: She's living her life. It's beautiful.

1113
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting. In the episodes

1114
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 2: we did on resilience and trauma and stuff, we did

1115
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: talk about bouncing back, but one thing we didn't really

1116
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 2: get into that much, which maybe we should do an

1117
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 2: episode on, is having deep trauma, like throughout your entire

1118
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 2: development and what that can do to the self. And

1119
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 2: I'd be really curious to know what the actual process

1120
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 2: is for, not just like rebuilding aself and going back

1121
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 2: to a self that you had, but building a self

1122
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: that was never there and you know, care and parenting.

1123
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: That you never really had.

1124
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 2: Because it's definitely possible, we've seen it, but it's just like,

1125
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: what tremendous effort and care and patience that must take.

1126
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's just amazing.

1127
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I say that just to be hopeful,

1128
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: but honestly, the fact that she is where she's at

1129
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: is extraordinary and she's extraordinary. So I don't want to

1130
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: take away from how special she is.

1131
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: No, but humans are capable of healing from anything.

1132
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: I love Victor Frankel's book about the Holocaust or he

1133
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: talks about taking showers and how they would all like

1134
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: tease each other. They'd get in the shower and then

1135
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: water would come on and they'd be like, you should

1136
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: have seen your face. You were so scared. Like they

1137
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: would lock her room joke about it not being.

1138
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 2: Their death, right right, Yeah, Like the ways in which

1139
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 2: humans can like find the light in unfathomable darkness, and like, yeah,

1140
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 2: learn like like the fucking plant analogy.

1141
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 3: You know, it's amazing.

1142
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, how she said that she was like a little

1143
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: plant under the cement and that she just kept reaching

1144
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: for the sun.

1145
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, what I know.

1146
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: I know.

1147
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 2: In conclusion, y'all, I also just want to like quickly

1148
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: this is literally completely not comparable in any way, but

1149
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: for anyone who was on my anxiety OCD journey with

1150
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: me last year, I just have been noticing these past

1151
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 2: couple months and like I am myself, I'm gonna like

1152
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 2: back to normal, like I know what to do when

1153
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: those thoughts hit, Like they don't even bother me anymore.

1154
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 4: Wow.

1155
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: I feel also so proud, and I truly like, again,

1156
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 2: not comparable to this level, but it just is another

1157
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: example of like, no matter how bad you think it is, ma'am,

1158
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 2: like you it can get better, and you just it's

1159
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: just a matter. Often it's just a matter of finding

1160
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 2: the right people to support you and to have around you.

1161
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think helped the most?

1162
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 3: I think that.

1163
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 2: Having a specialist who knew exactly what I was dealing

1164
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 2: with and could give me the exact right therapy for

1165
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 2: me as opposed to just general therapy was the thing,

1166
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: because I literally needed to retrain my brain and I

1167
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 2: had no idea how to do that. Yeah, because it

1168
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 2: wasn't about my body, it wasn't about breathing. It was

1169
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 2: literally like my thoughts were attacking me, but they don't anymore,

1170
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 2: and even when they do, I'm like, oh, that's silly thought. Anyway,

1171
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:58,439
Speaker 2: what was I doing?

1172
01:02:59,000 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 4: You know? Wow?

1173
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. You did the work. Congratulations, thank you,

1174
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 1: thank you.

1175
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 4: All of us welcome.

1176
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: All of us can get better friends. That's that's the

1177
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 2: moral of the story. Staying with my mom. I mean,

1178
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 2: just yeah, the things people can overcome is really it's amazing.

1179
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 3: Humans are amazing.

1180
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful. We have had such a wonderful time

1181
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: with you guys this week. We can't wait to see

1182
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,919
Speaker 1: you again next week. As always, remember to follow your gut,

1183
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: watch out for red Flags and never ever trust trust Me.

1184
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 4: Bye Bye.

1185
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1186
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1187
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

1188
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,919
Speaker 3: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1189
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1190
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1191
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1192
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1193
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1194
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1195
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.