WEBVTT - From the Vault: Tumbleweeds, Part 2 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.160 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.680 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's Saturday. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.680 That vault door creaks open, doesn't it. This episode originally 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:20.079 aired janu two, and it's part two of our series 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:26.520 on Tumbleweeds. I hope you enjoy Welcome to Stuff to 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:36.320 Blow Your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:38.720 to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.040 Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And the Flaming tumbleweed has 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.839 rolled right back in. We're ready for part two of 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.520 this series. That's right. If you didn't listen to part one, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.640 go back, give it a listen, because we get we 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.720 get all into the topic of tumble weeds, talking about 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.880 what what tumbleweeds are? What? What what do we mean 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.720 when we talk about them in the Americans sense, in 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:04.440 a broader sense, why do they do the tumbling? Uh? 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.000 And so forth. I think it was a pretty fun episode, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.920 and we're gonna We're gonna keep the ball rolling today. Now. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.880 One of the interesting things that we discovered in the 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.920 last episode is that while the tumbleweed is an icon 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.319 of the American West, uh, the main species of tumbleweed. 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.000 The thing people are usually talking about in the American 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.320 context when they say a tumbleweed is a plant known 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.800 as Russian thistle that only arrived in the United States 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.640 probably around the eighteen seventies. And so this is not 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.640 even native to North America. It's something that comes from 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:44.399 the Eurasian step. Yeah, it is very much an invader. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.480 It is an invasive species, and we're gonna get into 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.280 some of the ramifications of that here. But it's also 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.760 one of the reasons why if you look for um 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.600 for like Native American accounts of tumbleweeds, uh, you know 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.960 they're not going to exist before a certain point because 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.840 they don't even come in with the initial colonists, with 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.160 the initial influx of Westerners, or even the first few 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.040 influxes of Westerners. They come in much later. However, you 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.200 do find some interesting uh uses of tumbleweed. I was 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.120 reading in the Journal of American Folklore article titled The 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.880 Witches Were Saved, a Zuni origin story by Dennis Tedlock. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.720 So the Zuni or one of the Pueblo people of 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.799 the American West, and the author here discusses work by 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:37.560 the author Andrew Pinesta intended for oral performance. Pinesta was 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.680 a Zuni storyteller, and the story in question was apparently 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.240 told in nineteen sixty five. Uh, and then Tedlock, you know, 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.320 is writing about it and discussing it, and it concerns 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.160 interference by the US military into Zuni affairs. But it 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.119 mentions the tumble weeds in a way that I think 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.280 is rather clever and drives home their invasive and uh, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.440 their their invasive nature. Here. Quote, there's a spot near 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.600 Neutria where the soldiers camped. They fed hay to their horses, 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.600 and there were tumbleweeds seeds in it. Now only tumbleweeds 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.120 grow on that spot and they've spread all over. Oh, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.720 so framing the soldiers here is a vector of the 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.400 spread of this invasive plant. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's my 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.440 read of it. Anyway, you know, it's touching on the 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.360 foreign invasive nature of both both the the the American 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.920 military presence here and the presence of of Westerners in 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.320 general and the tumbleweed, both things that kind of curse 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.560 the land. In this viewpoint, I was looking around for, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.720 you know, obviously to find older sort of folklore. It 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.760 takes and cultural takes on tumbleweeds. You have to go 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.920 to the parts of the world where tumbleweeds were originally 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:48.960 or would have spread to before they had a chance 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.720 to take root in America literally. Um. I was reading 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:58.240 The Rooster in the Transylvanian Folklore by Ferric POLSONI, and 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.840 in it the author rights on the Transylvanian plane, people 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.480 used to believe that witches would cause aridity by burning 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.240 a stolen rooster feather on the tumbleweed. Oh, this is interesting. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.320 So the tumbleweed Lord does go back, you know, to 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.159 to pre modernity, but in in the in the Step 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:20.800 region rather than in North America. Yeah, and so I was. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.240 I was looking around for more references to it. I'm 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.280 sure there's some good ones I missed. So anybody out 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.880 there who's aware of of any folkloric treatments of tumble 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:31.640 weeds from from any part of the world, right in 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.520 and share them with us. But I found mentions of 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:40.360 tumbleweeds in Mongolian tradition, namely as the subject of traditional 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:45.719 Mongolian riddles as Collected and Disgusting in Mongolian Folklore, a 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.080 representative collection from the Oral Tradition Part one, and this 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:56.560 is by hanging Krueger Service and Rosiecki published in Mongolian Studies, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.680 and this came out. This is one of those volumes 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.280 that came out like Bridging eight, five and six, so 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:07.279 they cover both Mongolian folks, sayings and riddles in this paper, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.960 and this was this is actually a real pleasure to read. 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.120 I know, Joe, you looked at it as well. It's 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.680 it's it's almost like I think I was telling me 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.800 before we recorded, like I kind of want to see 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.760 this bound as its own little paperback edition and uh 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.479 and available for purchase somewhere, because it's just it's full 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.320 of these these fun little Mongolian folks things and then 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.719 ultimately riddles, many of which you know, we're gonna have 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.599 residents with with readers anywhere in the world, right though 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.240 some of which are are completely like going to be 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.360 lost on you if you don't know much about animal 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.320 husbandry or goats or anything. But but other ones, yeah, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.320 they are very universal and and almost all the sayings 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.320 are great. Uh So the first half of it concerns 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.600 more like proverbs, you know, those kind of sayings that 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.599 that don't they're not like a prompt in the way 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.800 the riddle is uh and and a lot of the 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.880 proverbs are really good. One of them that I'm just 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.720 doing this from memory, but I think it was something like, uh, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.240 load a donkey up with cargo, load of fool up 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.520 with praise. Yeah, they're so good though, obviously, Yeah, they're 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.599 they're they're they're emerging from a particular culture in a 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.919 particular region. They speak very much to the environment in 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.360 the cultures of of the Mongolian people here. Um. But 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.400 but yeah, the riddles here they have a lot in 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.800 common with riddle traditions around the world. The authors here 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.680 right quote the heart of the riddle is naturally the 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:34.240 real or fancied resemblance between two ideas or things, although 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.720 sometimes punning plays a role when the similarity involves two 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.640 or three words which sound alike. So I have a 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.280 I have a couple of riddles here. I'm gonna I'm 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.400 gonna inflict them on you, Joe, and you may be 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.240 able to guess the answer to a couple of them. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.440 But here's the first one. When it comes from yonder, 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.760 it looks like a camel. When it crawls under the wagon, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:01.080 it looks like a goat. Okay, so I know the 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.159 answer to this one, which is that it's a tumble weed. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.760 But nonetheless I don't get it. I don't understand why 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.160 it looks like a goat when it crawls under the wagon. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.560 What what do goats do under the wagon? That is, like, 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.800 do goats kind of crack and break or they brittle 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.480 under a wagon? I don't know. I guess maybe they're 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.160 just smaller. Like I can definitely, you know that my 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.760 driving experience that I talked about in the last episode, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.040 I can definitely relate to the idea that the bumbling 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.640 tumbleweed on the highway may look as big as a camel. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.920 It may be that intimidating, and then once you actually 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.000 run it over, you're like, oh, well, that was more 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.440 like running over a goat. Want sense. I've never run 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.280 over a goat. I don't know why I laughed, would 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.240 be very sad to run over a goat, But for 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.760 some reason that was funny at the time, at the time, 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.840 for ten seconds ago. But but anyway, I do think 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.200 this is one of the ones that is interesting because 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:59.440 it seems to require some kind of localized knowledge that 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.160 we don't really have. And this is something actually that 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.760 the authors mentioned uh in their introduction to the section 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.920 on Mongolian riddles, they say that, you know, riddles are 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.600 nearly universal and cultures around the world, and it's interesting 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.760 to see what topics are the most common in each 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.200 riddle culture. And so they say, for example, all cultures 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.360 have riddles concerning astronomical phenomenon like the sun and the moon, 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.160 but that when you look at Mongolian riddles in particular, 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.560 they're going to be especially focused on topics like animal husbandry. 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.440 So there will be riddles that that have to do 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.920 with camels and goats and horses and things like that. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.040 And obviously also localized plants will show up in a 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.520 culture's riddles about nature, and the tumbleweed would be one 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.880 of these. Speaking of WAYI here's another riddle Joe from 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.360 the stuff from this uh this collection. It travels by 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.560 the wind, it stays in the ditch. Now this one 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.600 I get more. Yeah, this is a tumbleweed. And I 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.679 think that the tickling, the brain tickling part of this, 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.120 Maybe that it's playing on your assumption when you say 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.360 it travels by the wind. People are naturally primed to 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.200 think about something other than like a plant or a 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.840 feature of the natural world. Yeah, something that actually lives 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.880 and in in the air, and something that flies in 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.920 the air like a bird. Or you're thinking maybe it's 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.360 gonna be something like song or something, but what does 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.600 it mean It stays in the bitch. I thought of 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.400 a boat. That's a that's a good one too, but no, 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.920 it's the tumbleweed. Which I mean this feels right as well. 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.520 I mean, there's this thing that is is pretty impressive 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.160 when it really gets going, but it winds in a 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.839 good ditch and it's done for exactly. I mean this 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.200 calls to mind those images we saw last time of 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.679 you know, five hundred tumbleweeds all jammed into a culvert. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.800 Yeah alright, so Joe, you knew that the answer to 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.880 those riddles was going to be the tumbleweed. But I 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.880 wanted to I wanted to give you a shot. It's 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.880 a non tumble weed Mongolian riddles here. Okay, So these 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.120 I I I realized these may be a bit difficult, 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.960 but we're gonna give it a shot. Here's the first one. 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.679 If I only had a tongue, I would be a witness. 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.800 If I could only rise up, I could reach up 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.400 to heaven. Now I saw this one before you read it, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.080 and I thought about it, and I honestly have no idea. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.679 I mean, so the second one is making me think 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.880 it maybe is something that is long but not tall, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.400 you know, like, yeah, but but I really don't know. Well, 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.760 you're on the right track, because the answer to this 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.200 one is the road. Oh okay, uh, well, I certainly 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.280 get the second half. If I could only rise up, 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:40.640 I could reach up to heaven, you know, if you 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.120 could flip the axis. But why what is it about 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:45.960 the tongue? If I only had a tongue that could 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.040 be a witness, I I don't, I don't know this one. 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.040 They didn't come. They basically just explained that this one 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.120 had to do with you know, they give the answer, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.439 but they didn't explain what the tongue and the witness 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.320 bit means. Maybe just because you so much happens on 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.120 the road, that the road is is kind of all knowing. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.800 In a sense, it connects to everywhere. Yeah, it's like 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.040 if these walls could talk, but there are no walls, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.920 if this road could talk. Yeah, and in in a sense, 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.360 you know, it's yeah, it is everywhere at once that 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.200 this road that I am on is is also in 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.000 this distant city as well as the city I came from. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.680 And it's with me right here. Interesting. All right, here's 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.720 one more. I have something. Others use it a lot, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.840 but I use it only occasionally. Now with this one, 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.160 I also have no idea. I was trying to think 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.600 in the animal agriculture kind of zone. Would could this 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.120 be something about I don't know, a like a goat? 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.000 Does a goat not use its own milk very much? 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.760 Or something? I don't know. Well, the answer to this 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:55.079 one is my name. Oh oh, that's very good. It's 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.720 very good. Yeah. Yeah, the the rationale being that generally 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.880 you're not saying your own name as much as other 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.560 people are saying your name. But this is like not 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.240 a good riddle if it's delivered by Bob Dole, right yeah, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.600 or doing the Rock Johnson that kind of thing exactly. Okay, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:13.240 Well I pulled that one for you, Rob. Did you 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.320 already see the solution to this one? Um? I don't. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.480 I'd probably not going to remember it. Okay, it's just 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.240 one line. The head is the enemy of its body. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.400 M what is it? The head is the enemy of 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.839 its body? Oh? Oh, I don't know. Again, I'm I'm 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.560 thinking and my mind is turning to two cows and 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.640 goats and horses, and I'm I'm also, you know, trying 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.160 to think of like the great expanse of the Mongolian countryside, 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.800 and I'm I'm drawing a blank here. I think I 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.880 got us overly focused on on bovida and stuff. No, No, 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.920 the answer is a matchstick. That's pretty good. So, yeah, 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.760 this has got to be a more modern riddle, I guess. 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.600 And I don't know when all of these come from, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.920 Like do some of these date back hundreds of years 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.439 whereas others are, you know, maybe from the ninete or 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.920 twentieth century. Yeah, I get the impression that that a 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.760 number of them maybe more recent. Oh and another one 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.720 of them that I saw was pretty interesting was just 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.560 the same one that appears in the It's the riddle 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.360 of the Sphinx from from Oedipus, So that that appears 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.600 to be a cross cultural riddle. You know, what has 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.000 four legs in the morning, two legs in the in 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.000 the noontime, and three legs in the evening. It is 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.320 a human, you know, because you're a baby and you crawl, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.360 and then as an adult you walk on two legs, 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.719 and then an old age, you use a cane. Oh, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.400 but I got one more for you, rob. Okay, So 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.280 this one is on a sunny day, there are two. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.120 On a sunless day, there is but one. On a 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:41.080 moonlit night, there are two. On a moonless night, there 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:48.199 is but one. I mean, I'm thinking about light and silhouettes, shadows. Yeah, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.560 that's it. It's a shadow. Is it a shadow? Okay? Wait, 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.280 so the person's shadow. There are two of you on 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.760 a sunny day because you have a shadow. Okay, I 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.600 got that, but okay, and then on a sunless day 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.400 there's just you. There's no shadow. On a moon at night, 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.600 there too, Again, you have a shadow. And on a 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.559 moonless night it's too dark to see anything, right, should 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.959 there Yeah, there shouldn't even be one on a moonless night. 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.800 I guess the stars are so bright. That's one thing 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.199 I guess we have to consider. I don't know for certain, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.960 but it reminds me of things I've read about Egyptian mythology, 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:21.080 and about how UH, an often unobscured sky, is so 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.160 central to UH sort of the world view of of say, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.200 ancient Egyptians. I wonder if that holds true in Mongolian 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.600 culture as well, because if you have like this brilliant 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.080 starlet sky and there's you know, less probability of cloud cover, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.400 then perhaps that does illuminate things a little better. I 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.160 don't know. Yeah, certainly there's going to be less possibility 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.680 of you know, light pollution and artificial light kind of 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.000 creating these these deeper pockets of shadow. But why does 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.920 the tumbleweed under the wagon look like a goat? I 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.720 mean maybe it just has to do with like, once 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.560 it gets up here, it's not going to you know, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.720 kick butt like a camel would like. It's going to 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.000 be more or less hiding underneath the cart like a 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.760 goat kind of Uh, it's gonna be this It's not 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.240 gonna be this bounding, brave looking thing. It's going to 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.360 be this meek uh, a little ball that's hiding around 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.760 underneath the carts or jammed under a wheel, et cetera. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.800 Mongolian listeners right in teach us help us figure this 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.680 one out. By the way, the saying is collected in 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.760 this this this book, or I mean in this paper 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.960 also great. Uh, here's an example one that kept jumping 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.920 out of me every time I sort of skimmed past 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:35.840 it looking for tumbleweeds, men follow customs, dogs follow bones? 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.840 I like that one. Yeah, that is good. So if 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.400 this implies a parallel in the way that these things 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.400 are followed, would it be that humans go after social 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:52.800 customs in a kind of driven, hungry, instinctual way. You know, 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.000 I'm not sure if that is the way we're supposed 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.080 to take this, or does it mean that a dog 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.760 like just follows their gut instinct didn't like, you know, 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.880 follows immediate evidence. But mene have customs that they have 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.960 to follow. Oh yeah, that's it. That could be the contrast. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.360 But but but I I find your interpretation interesting as well. 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.320 I could I guess I could se it go either way. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.800 I guess there's no comparative word in there. Doesn't say 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:19.680 men follow customs like dogs follow bones. Anyway, there are 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.520 more of these and if you're interested, again, it's Mongolian Folklore, 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.240 a representative collection from the oral literary tradition, Part one 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.960 And that's a bit of one J store. So if 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.840 you go to J S t O R dot org 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.320 you can you can access it for free. I don't 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.760 know if you have to sign in, Like I, I 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.479 access it via membership. But um, but not a paid membership, 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.520 so go for it if you're interested. Okay, one more 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.680 one before we move on that this is just a proverb. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.960 It's that children who grow up spoiled are more difficult 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.560 to handle than a bull's neck. Okay, what about a 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.000 bull's neck, though, I guess it's difficult to get your 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.840 hands around it, right, Like it's is. A bold net 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.160 can be so thick that you can't even reach your 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.359 arms around it and like, you know, lock your your 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:16.280 knuckles together. Yeah, thank alright, So we're gonna we're gonna 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.639 leave mongolian Um wisdom aside here for a little bit. 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.280 We're gonna get back to more North American tales of 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.080 the tumbleweed. And so I was just you know, thinking 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.359 at this point you're probably going, well, geez, guys, I 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.480 get the tumbleweeds are bad, and uh, you know that's 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.040 sometimes they're like a camel and sometimes like there a goat. Okay, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.080 fair enough, but what do they mean for the proliferation 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.240 of radioactive waste? Well, we're glad you ask, because it's 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.280 actually an interesting question. Uh. And one of the things 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.040 I found even more fascinating about it is that they're 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.119 the role that tumbleweeds play in in our treatment of 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.360 radioactive waste can vary greatly depending on like what source 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.960 you're looking at. Well, yeah, and I think the radioactivity 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.879 will play more into the second example we're talking about 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.960 them the first, which might be more clearly classed as 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:11.119 a case of toxic waste, right, yes, but but both 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:17.359 have to do with the leavings of of the atomic age. Yeah. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.760 So the atomic ages we've discussed on the show before, 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.000 especially I think the the episode or episodes in question, uh, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.840 it was titled the Atomic Scar. Uh. The Atomic Ages 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.919 left various scars on the planet, including radioactive waste that 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.000 we have to see laway and figure out how to 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.520 symbolically worn apocalyptic wanders ten thousand years in the future 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.160 that they shouldn't mess with this because it's bad. Uh. 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.000 So we're always looking at for ways to secure it, 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.520 to resecure it, to clean it up, et cetera. Now, 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.719 you might remember another episode we did titled The Tide 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.840 of Gold, and in that we discussed some sort of 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:00.119 novel gold harvesting schemes and ideas, and we discussed how 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.760 plants can harvest gold from the ground. Basically, the premise 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.440 here is that some plants have the ability to absorb 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:12.240 minerals through their roots and and uh and and concentrate 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:17.280 metals such as nickel, uh, cadmium, and zinc. These plants 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.280 are also known as hyper accumulators. There are no natural 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.479 gold hyper accumulators, but there are ways to make it 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.520 possible through soil manipulation. So you like treat the soil 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.560 that contains the gold in a certain way, and you 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.000 can sort of engineer it so that certain plants that 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:38.280 have this natural ability will actually draw that gold up 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.160 into their roots system. So you can probably see where 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.480 we're going here. Um, remember how we mentioned that tumble 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.520 weed roots can dive twenty feet down into the soil. Well, 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.399 As pointed out by geologist Dana Ulmer Shoal of the 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:57.560 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology in SoCoRo, reporting 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.399 to the U S Geological Society in two thousand four, 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.760 taboweed plants are actually really good. It's soaking up depleted 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.639 uranium from contaminated soils and weapons testing grounds and battlefields. 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.399 Now this is interesting. I guess we should do a 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:17.280 little sidebar here on depleted uranium because you might be wondering. Okay, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.080 depleted uranium, and you you hear that, hear uranium your 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.600 weapons testing grounds, and you might naturally think like, oh, 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.480 nuclear bomb detonation sites, But this is actually talking about 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:34.320 something different. Uh. So, depleted uranium is often used in 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.000 heavy munitions as as a metal, not as a fissile 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.680 material for a bomb, but as a metal. And it's 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.280 used in these munitions because of its density and armor 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.199 penetrating properties. So it's you know, you can make a 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.719 very dense projectile out of it. I believe it is 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.440 more than half again as dense as leads something. It's 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.920 like sixty something percent more dense than lead is uh 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.439 And that density all so makes it useful for certain 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.840 things in like the aeronautics field. I think I've read 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.320 that it's used sometimes as a counterweight or counterbalance in 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:12.000 some helicopter rotor blades, but it's also used for plating 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.320 and armored vehicles, again because it's dense so it's more 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.800 likely to stop a projectile, and then also in creating 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:24.439 shielding against radiation. But as as ammunition in particular, I 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.359 think depleted uranium is used not just because it's dense, 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.439 but because say, when it hits the armor plating of 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.240 a tank to try to penetrate it. It has these 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.919 properties where it tends to kind of fragment in a 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:41.000 way that that makes the projectile sharper rather than blunt 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.520 r And as it penetrates through the armor plating of 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.360 an armored vehicle, it also tends to ignite and explode 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.560 on the inside. So it has a lot of properties 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:52.359 that you would want if you were trying to shoot 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.919 through an armored vehicle. Now, to pick up on the 0:21:55.960 --> 0:22:00.000 caveat I was giving earlier about radioactivity, depleted uranium has 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.840 very low levels of radioactivity. It's actually it actually has 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:09.960 less radioactivity then is typically found in natural uranium. But uranium, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:15.160 whether natural or depleted uranium, has significant chemical toxicity. So 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.200 it is clear that it is dangerous to ingest certain 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.240 amounts of it beyond a certain threshold. But at least 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:25.760 according to some sources, this is not really because of radioactivity. Uh, 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:29.240 though there might be some continuing controversy about the radiological 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.639 effects in particular. I'll mention a little more about that 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.399 in a minute, um, but I was trying to look up, Okay, 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.400 how does it work well? According to the US Agency 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:41.920 for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry or the A T. S. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:46.000 D R, which is a government agency under the under 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.359