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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we hope

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Speaker 1: that wherever you are, you're taking a second to think

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Speaker 1: about all that you live through in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: what you gained and what you lost, and you can

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Speaker 1: rest today knowing that you gave this year your best shot.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, December thirty, first New Year's Eve, and today

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Speaker 1: we're on the road again with former pro cyclist Katherine Berteen.

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Speaker 1: This conversation happened back in August, just before the Tour

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Speaker 1: de France BEM. We talked about equality in the sport,

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Speaker 1: the history of the tour, and are fascinating journey from

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Speaker 1: figure skating to pro cycling. That conversation is coming up

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Speaker 1: right after this stick around, joining US now cyclist, author, activist, filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: former professional figure skater and former professional triathlete. She turned

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Speaker 1: professional in road cycling in twenty twelve and raced on

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Speaker 1: World Tour teams until twenty seventeen. Her biggest legacy, though,

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Speaker 1: we'll be as an activist helping spearhead petitions to organizers

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Speaker 1: to launch a women's Tour de France. A former espnW

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Speaker 1: colleague of fellow Ted Lasso lover, and a newly engaged woman.

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Speaker 1: It's Katherine Bertie. What's up, Catherine.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Sarah. Oh, it's so great to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: As always. Thank you for having me on your kick

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Speaker 2: ass show. It's an honor to be here.

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Speaker 1: You are welcome, and you're celebrating your engagement by following

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Speaker 1: the Tour de France fem which is like so perfect

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Speaker 1: and typical of you because you have made this so

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Speaker 1: much of your life. But it wasn't always and I

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Speaker 1: love this part of the story. So it's not like

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Speaker 1: you grew up being like cycling, let's do it. You

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Speaker 1: were actually a figure skater and you turned pro in that,

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Speaker 1: but after your thirtieth birthday you were like, let me

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Speaker 1: find some other sports to give a go. And there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a fascinating journey to get to pro cycling,

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Speaker 1: so tell us about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the short story, journey to turning pro cycling actually

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Speaker 2: stemmed from our ESPN days and I was given an

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Speaker 2: assignment of, say, if you can get to the Olympic

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Speaker 2: Games in two years, like you're the guinea pig, try

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Speaker 2: a sport, see how badly you fail. It was kind

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Speaker 2: of this setup to fail mission right, and the reality

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Speaker 2: that happened. Condensing that story is that I found cycling.

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Speaker 2: I found road cycling. I'd been a triathlete, and my

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Speaker 2: strongest of those three sports swim by grun was cycling.

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Speaker 2: So I'm like, let me give this thing a try.

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Speaker 2: Spoiler alert. While I didn't make the Olympic Games in

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Speaker 2: about eighteen months, I came remarkably close to it. But

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Speaker 2: the big thing was that I fell in love with cycling,

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Speaker 2: and as soon as the assignment ended, I was hooked.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm in. I want to do this. I

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Speaker 2: want to see if I can get to the professional

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Speaker 2: level and race against the best of the best. But

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Speaker 2: along the way, I also saw behind the scenes how

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Speaker 2: many inequities there still were and are in pro cycling.

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Speaker 2: For example, the women don't race the same events as

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Speaker 2: the men, they don't race the same distances. We're like

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Speaker 2: half the distance. And then of course the prize money conundrum.

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Speaker 2: We are pennies on the dollar. So all these things

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Speaker 2: did not up to the why why why why is

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Speaker 2: it like this? And that's when I realized, like, we

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Speaker 2: need to change the sport, you know a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And that came from a place of love and being

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Speaker 2: as they say, being in the arena, I was like,

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Speaker 2: what can I do?

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Speaker 1: I love that though, because I think it's a lesson

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Speaker 1: for people. It's like, there are so many people who

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Speaker 1: see other people step up and do something and think

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Speaker 1: that they must be different in some way, and you're not.

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Speaker 1: You're not a lifelong cyclist. You weren't at the top

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Speaker 1: of cycling in the Olympics. You were a participant and

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Speaker 1: you were very good, but you were also just someone

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Speaker 1: who was keenly aware of how things weren't right and

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Speaker 1: you wanted to do something about it, and boy did you.

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Speaker 1: So before we get to what you did, can you

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Speaker 1: give us a brief summary for those who don't know

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Speaker 1: about the history of the women's Tour de France. This

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Speaker 1: is an impossible task, but like sixty seconds ish on

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Speaker 1: the clock, what was it before?

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Speaker 2: And go first thing. There are four renditions of the

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Speaker 2: Tour de France FIM that we know today. The first

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Speaker 2: one started in nineteen fifty five, and that was actually

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Speaker 2: a set up to fail. Back then, the race director

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Speaker 2: of the Tour de France said, I don't think women

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Speaker 2: can do any stages, and he gave the women a

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Speaker 2: five day course and in nineteen fifty five the women

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Speaker 2: there were forty one women from different countries, and they

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Speaker 2: not only did it, they crushed it. They did amazing

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Speaker 2: and apparently that must have scared the race director because

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Speaker 2: it went away. It didn't come back right, so not

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Speaker 2: until nineteen eighty four. So from from fifty five to

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Speaker 2: eighty four nothing. Then finally a more progressive race director

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Speaker 2: with the Tour de France, said let's give the women

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Speaker 2: another shot, and this time let's not make it five stages,

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Speaker 2: let's make it eighteen stages, which is almost the same

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Speaker 2: amount as the men. The men had twenty one. So

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Speaker 2: the women raced on the same course the same day,

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Speaker 2: slightly before the men from eighty four to eighty nine,

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Speaker 2: and it was called Tour de France Feminine. And in

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Speaker 2: eighty nine it went away, and people ask why, And

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Speaker 2: the short story is it's about that time, around nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty nine that media coverage TV coverage, which is what

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Speaker 2: we had back then, the only option for coverage in

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Speaker 2: the media. It was basically gearing everything toward the men,

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Speaker 2: and the race directors were given this opportunity to say, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: let's include the women in this, but they didn't, and

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Speaker 2: instead of saying, hey, we've got a men and women's field,

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Speaker 2: men's and women's field. They just let go of the

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Speaker 2: women's race to focus solely on the men. And that

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Speaker 2: was so sad, and a lot of the racers were saying,

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Speaker 2: you know what, screw it, we will make our own

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Speaker 2: Tour de France.

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Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break plenty more with

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Speaker 1: Catherine Bertein coming up right after this.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of the racers were saying, you know what,

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Speaker 2: screw it, we will make our own Tour de France.

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Speaker 2: And the owners of the Tour de France said, nope,

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Speaker 2: you do not have access to the name. You can

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Speaker 2: do what you want, but you can't call it the

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Speaker 2: Tour de France. And of course the whole world knew

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Speaker 2: that the Tour de France was a name brand. It

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Speaker 2: was a bike you know, a bike race in France.

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Speaker 2: So sadly when the name went away, there was another addition.

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Speaker 2: It was called the Grand bous Clay, but it didn't

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Speaker 2: have the same name. It lost the sponsors that made

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Speaker 2: it a worldwide event, it didn't have the media coverage.

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Speaker 2: So that was an eighty nine and fast forward, what

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Speaker 2: you know, when I came onto the scenes, thinking like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what can we do here? And again, like you pointed out,

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Speaker 2: I'm not a gold medalist. I did make it to

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Speaker 2: World Championships, but I didn't make it to the Olympic Games.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a national title with the US, but

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Speaker 2: what I did have was organizational powers. And I can

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Speaker 2: be very annoying in a good way, maybe also a

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Speaker 2: bad way, but most of the time it comes from

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Speaker 2: a place of love. And I kept saying, what can

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Speaker 2: we do? So I banded together with three other gold star,

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Speaker 2: gold medal winning Olympians and national champions and said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: if the three of us, the four of us bond together,

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Speaker 2: maybe we can really make change here. And that's when

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Speaker 2: we organized to launch a petition to finally include women

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Speaker 2: in the Tour de France, and we went viral for

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Speaker 2: that time, which was just about one hundred thousand signatures.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't just a petition, It was a website,

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Speaker 2: it was a manifesto, it was everything. What we wanted

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Speaker 2: to do is sit down with a parent company of

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Speaker 2: the Tour de France called ASO, to sit down with

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Speaker 2: them and guide them in how we can do this

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Speaker 2: productively lucrative for them. And for the athletes, you know.

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Speaker 2: And this is the part of the book that took

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Speaker 2: a good one hundred pages to write, so I'll condense

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Speaker 2: it to saying like, hey, we won, we got it

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Speaker 2: our foot in the door, and even though we lobbied

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Speaker 2: for equal inclusion for every day, and they started by saying,

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Speaker 2: you know what, we don't know if anyone will watch,

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Speaker 2: We'll give you one day in twenty four twen.

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Speaker 1: Well, so really quick. The book is called stand and

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Speaker 1: if you are not even remotely interested in cycling, it

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Speaker 1: does not matter. Because I only read it because Catherine

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Speaker 1: is a friend and she sent it to me, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I want to learn about this activism

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Speaker 1: and how she got this done, even if I've never

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Speaker 1: watched the Tour de France a day of my life,

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Speaker 1: and it's a fascinating look at any kind of activism

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Speaker 1: and how to rally people around something that you care about.

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Speaker 1: And also just a reminder Catherine again, you are not

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Speaker 1: a normal person. You are extraordinary. But also you are

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Speaker 1: much more normal than we imagine we need to be

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Speaker 1: to make the kind of change that you have. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's really inspiring to other people to fight

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Speaker 1: for things like this if they see someone like you

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Speaker 1: rally the right people at the right time, figure out

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Speaker 1: the right tricks to pull so that you're getting public

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Speaker 1: support or public shaming, which is often a huge part

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Speaker 1: of getting shit done, which you very well did. So

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Speaker 1: it takes us to twenty fourteen, so we get this

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Speaker 1: first edition, this lack course, but by la Tour de France,

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Speaker 1: so on the Champs of Lise in Paris ahead of

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Speaker 1: the final stage of the twenty fourteen Tour de France.

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Speaker 1: It's very cool, it's very pretty, it's very fancy. You

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Speaker 1: actually got to be on the starting line on your

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Speaker 1: bike racing in it. Very cool, But that wasn't what

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Speaker 1: you were asking for. So finally twenty twenty one we

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Speaker 1: get Tour de France fem eight days over. Twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: they announced it's going to happen the next year, and

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Speaker 1: everyone's excited, including you. But still shorter, still less prize money,

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Speaker 1: still less TV coverage. So what are we still fighting

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Speaker 1: for as we celebrate that we do have this race now,

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Speaker 1: but not exactly what we want yet.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's such a great question, Sarah, because it

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Speaker 2: brings up the concept of progress being a wonderful thing.

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Speaker 2: But it also has to serve as a reminder that

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Speaker 2: we cannot settle for breadcrumbs, you know, in the bake

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Speaker 2: shop of progress. We need to keep vuying for the

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Speaker 2: whole pie, the whole loaf, whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 2: But right now, the beauty is that we have this

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Speaker 2: eight day race. It's actually moving to nine days next year,

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Speaker 2: of course, which I poke fun at. I'm like, oh great,

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Speaker 2: in about thirty years, will be equal if you know,

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Speaker 2: keep adding one day. But the reality is that what

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Speaker 2: we need to keep pushing for is the fact that

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Speaker 2: women have eight days, men have twenty one days, So

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Speaker 2: we need more days, yes, But we also need to

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Speaker 2: remember too that the distance of each of the women's

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Speaker 2: race it's shorter each day than the men's and it's

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Speaker 2: because of this antiquated system of like, oh, well, the

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Speaker 2: women couldn't possibly do a longer race, and we all

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Speaker 2: know that's craft. We all know that the you know,

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Speaker 2: sports physiologists have proven that women excel in endurance events.

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Speaker 2: So it's just hogwash to say, oh, we'll give the

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Speaker 2: women half or two thirds. They couldn't possibly you know,

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Speaker 2: the whole their ovaries will fall out. Yeah, right, So

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Speaker 2: longer distance, longer days. But also the big disappointment is

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Speaker 2: the fact that the prize money per day for women,

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Speaker 2: compared to the men's eight days to eight days, women

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Speaker 2: only make twenty nine percent of what the men are earning,

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Speaker 2: and that needs to change too. So we still have

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Speaker 2: some battles to fight, and we want to remind people

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Speaker 2: that we can celebrate the progress but also use the

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Speaker 2: word and to ask for more well.

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Speaker 1: And it helps when we ask for more if we're

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Speaker 1: supporting the thing, we're demanding that they make longer, bigger

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Speaker 1: and better. So what do we watch for? If we

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Speaker 1: are getting first timers who are listening to the show,

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Speaker 1: who are saying, Okay, I'm in, I want to watch

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Speaker 1: latura France fem, what do they watch for? How do

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Speaker 1: they appreciate it?

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Speaker 2: I love it? Great question. A lot of people think

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Speaker 2: that bike racing is a whole group of people and

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Speaker 2: the fastest person wins. But here's what's really exciting about cycling.

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Speaker 2: It's like a moving chess game. And within the piloton

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Speaker 2: and that's the group of cyclists. We've got sprinters, we've

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Speaker 2: got climbers, we've got best Young Rider category, and within

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Speaker 2: stage racing, there are multiple multiple areas in each race

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Speaker 2: where a climber might win a certain amount of points,

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Speaker 2: a sprinter might win, the best young rider might win,

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Speaker 2: and then there's a team classification, so there are multiple

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Speaker 2: races happening within a race, and once a viewer tunes

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Speaker 2: in and understands those dynamics, you have a variety of

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Speaker 2: people to root for, and that makes the sport so exciting,

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Speaker 2: as does the fact that these athletes on the women's

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Speaker 2: side of pro cycling have such extraordinary stories and backgrounds.

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Speaker 2: You know, many of them have had to work two

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Speaker 2: to three part time jobs just to make it, whereas

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Speaker 2: the men have more of a pipeline track into the

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Speaker 2: big leagues. So amazing backstories we've got like doctors, lawyers,

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Speaker 2: professors who are also pro cyclists. Really fascinating stuff. And

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Speaker 2: of course the global outreach now cycling is huge. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you had gone back maybe twenty or thirty years,

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Speaker 2: you might see that like it's all Dutch or all

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Speaker 2: Belgian or all European athletes, and now it's just a

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Speaker 2: rainbow of accomplishment of different countries, Like the top ten

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Speaker 2: are all from different countries, and that goes down top

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Speaker 2: twenty So it's really really amazing that we can actually

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Speaker 2: get behind us globally top athletes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, Well, we're all excited. And if you want

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Speaker 1: to watch Catherine's documentary Half the Road from twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: or if you want to read her book Stand, which

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend, there's a lot in there besides just cycling,

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Speaker 1: stuff from her life and her dramatic brain injury and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of other hiccups along the way. Also her

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Speaker 1: Homestretch Foundation, which assists female pro athletes who struggle with

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Speaker 1: the gender pay gapp. I've actually been to the house,

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Speaker 1: which is gorgeous, where the athletes live and train and

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Speaker 1: get a leg up as they try to live out

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Speaker 1: their dreams. We're gonna put links to all those things

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Speaker 1: in our show notes. Katherine, enjoy the Netherlands, enjoy the race,

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Speaker 1: and thanks so much for making time for us.

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Speaker 2: Sarah, thank you for all you do for women's sports

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Speaker 2: and all of sports. We so appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, counter as a slice, y'all, she's in. We hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed that conversation with Catherine. Tomorrow, our Best of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four series continues with Hooper Leisa Clarendon, See

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Speaker 1: You Then. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart

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Speaker 1: women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,

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Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive

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Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily

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Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Craterwell. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your

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Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain