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Speaker 1: You know the French call orgasms little deaths. I actually

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Speaker 1: I actually call Poop's little death. I'm gonna go have

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Speaker 1: a little death real quick.

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Speaker 2: But then you're coming on the toy.

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Speaker 1: No, like the eldest death. It's a little Elvis.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they're still having an orgasm. I'm also having a

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Speaker 2: full blown orgasm. Is that the wait? Is that the

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Speaker 2: Latin or that's a French? Oh they say the French

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Speaker 2: phrase for orgasm is little right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like a saying yeah.

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Speaker 3: I have not asked any of my French friends if

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Speaker 3: this is true or not.

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Speaker 1: The very hopeful idea of death, the death is actually

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Speaker 1: just a giant orgasm. If that's a little one, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I would also smoke. If I thought that's

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Speaker 1: what death was, I.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't be super surprised.

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Speaker 2: Oh that it is.

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Speaker 3: I feel like when I went on I mean this

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Speaker 3: is it wasn't very orgasmic. But like when I went

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Speaker 3: under to have my like teeth polled recently, like some

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Speaker 3: wisdom teeth, I was like, it's like when I was

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Speaker 3: flooded through with whatever chemicals they put into the IV.

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Speaker 3: I was like I went in super nervous, right, I

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Speaker 3: do not like going under, or I thought I didn't,

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Speaker 3: and instead I was just like, oh, I'm not worried

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Speaker 3: about anything. Yeah. They could have been like, and now

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Speaker 3: we're killing you, and I would have been.

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Speaker 2: Like, that's eight. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I got my wisdom teeth out in my early twenties

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Speaker 1: and was told secondhand that when they took me out

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Speaker 1: from under, I was like, hey, could I have more

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Speaker 1: of whatever? You just like, I go take me back.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be here. Hello the Internet, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to season three sixty five, Episode two of At

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Speaker 1: Least I Die. It's a production of iHeart Radio. It's

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Speaker 1: a podcast where you're taking deep to have into American

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Speaker 1: shared consciousness. It's podcast that now has a YouTube tube

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Speaker 1: channel at Daily z eyke Guys Pod. On YouTube, you

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Speaker 1: can go see what we look like when we're saying

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Speaker 1: stuff like this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, see the contorted faces. Now for your viewing pursures,

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Speaker 2: these are my words. Happy season three sixty five.

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Speaker 1: We've done it. We've done it, We've done it. We've

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Speaker 1: gone a whole year around the sun. Our little trip

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Speaker 1: around the Sun, true.

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Speaker 2: Daily z Eye Guy's challenge. Listen to an entire, entire

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Speaker 2: season's worth of episodes every day, and you can do

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Speaker 2: that for a full year and now get through every

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Speaker 2: episode we've had on the show.

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Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, do that.

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Speaker 2: Please don't actually don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic for our numbers and horrible for your mental health.

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Speaker 4: My name?

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, no, I didn't even tell them what date

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Speaker 1: it is. No, that's my part. Okay, Tuesday, Yeah, November nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Let's just see. I'm just trying to see if there's

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Speaker 2: any interesting birthdays. Shout out Meg ryan a if anyone

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Speaker 2: wants to impress a young Jody Foster, maybe today on

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Speaker 2: her birthday born in nineteen sixty two.

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Speaker 1: It worked.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying you can. You can impress her with

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Speaker 2: your knowledge of her films, like quoting lines from the

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Speaker 2: movie Now or Contact.

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Speaker 1: Okay the Beaver, Yeah Noil Gibson is funny.

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Speaker 2: Also, what it is, right, November nineteenth is also National

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Speaker 2: play Monopoly Day. We're already living it. That's okay, but hey, Jack,

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Speaker 2: it's your day. It's National carp This is so so vague,

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Speaker 2: National carbonated beverage with caffeine Day. So all of God's

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Speaker 2: children are in the sun today.

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Speaker 1: But that was like a day invented by cavemen. Like that,

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Speaker 1: I feel like by Encino man coming forward and experiencing

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Speaker 1: coca cola for the first.

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Speaker 2: It's like something in cone Heads. He's like, yes, more

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Speaker 2: carbonated beverage with caffeine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, shout out to the of us who used

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Speaker 1: to enjoy that and can't really anymore.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're not drinking die coke.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been drinking diet coke. I haven't been drinking

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Speaker 1: mountain dew, mountainkies, or.

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Speaker 2: You haven't even touched everything. Okay, I haven't mountain dew.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I'm only on my second one and

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Speaker 1: I haven't indented it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel judged when you go through the line

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Speaker 3: at checkout for not having a two liter?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's looking, hey man, you forgot your two liters

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Speaker 1: of mountain dew.

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Speaker 2: No, that's a different guy. No, you're dude Jack.

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Speaker 1: Trying to eat healthy, and they look at the food

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Speaker 1: that I actually have on there. You know you're not at.

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Speaker 2: These are Pillsbury Crescent rolls, just those tubes of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're they're really underrated. Those are so good.

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Speaker 1: Holy shit, they're not carbonated exactly, or no caffeine either

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Speaker 1: the difference between like fresh break baked bread and not

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Speaker 1: fresh baked bread is a powerful thing. And like I will,

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Speaker 1: I will go through a whole canister of those crescent

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Speaker 1: Those things are great.

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Speaker 2: You just bunch them up into one mego role basically

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Speaker 2: just eat like an app. Have done that?

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Speaker 3: You ever forget to put him in the fridge?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: They just start popping.

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Speaker 1: Right right right, yeah, too warm. It's rising. Things are

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Speaker 1: rising in here. My name is Jack O'Brien aka Haty.

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Speaker 1: The snow Man has a dirty carrot peen. He was

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Speaker 1: brought to life to fuck your ex wife with the

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Speaker 1: mind of a preteen courtesy of Cleo Universe. It's too

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Speaker 1: Hot Frosty, which I haven't seen, Miles. What is the

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Speaker 1: mental age if you had to pinpoint it at a

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Speaker 1: years old of hot Frosty? Definitely under ten, under under ten,

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Speaker 1: because I guess it counts as pretty simple.

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Speaker 2: Simple shit is having to be explained to the hot

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Speaker 2: snow Man. The one thing that they do, and this

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Speaker 2: isn't really a spoiler, is that like he catches onto

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Speaker 2: shit really quick. I think that's the way they make

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Speaker 2: it seem like, and he's able to like mature pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: I know he started off presenting as a childlike mind,

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Speaker 2: but by the end he's about like a seventeen year

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Speaker 2: old dude, probably.

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Speaker 1: With the mind of a pretty smart preteen, so it's

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Speaker 1: okay smart. Yeah. Anyways, thrilled to be joined as always

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Speaker 1: by my co host, a man who I can count

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Speaker 1: on to have watched Hot Frosty and Ye first weekend

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Speaker 1: of release. It's mister Miles. Great, Miles Great.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Carrit Dicken, he's melting slowly. Hot Frosty's coming to

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Speaker 5: save us, car Dicken, He's melting slowly.

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Speaker 1: I shout out to Richard B.

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Speaker 2: Three sixty. I know, I got a flurry of a

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Speaker 2: lot of people on the Blue Sky asking for the

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Speaker 2: Discord invites. I've I've not seen this name, so welcome

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Speaker 2: to the server and shout out everybody that's been joining

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Speaker 2: the Discord server. Hit me up on Blue Sky. Miles

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Speaker 2: of Gray over there for the invite, y'all. But you

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Speaker 2: gotta sign up for Blue Sky. Okay, let's sign Just

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Speaker 2: leave the other place, go to Blue Sky.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's getting better that I feel like the longer

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Speaker 1: it goes, the less of the content. Will be about like, hey,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are on Blue Sky.

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Speaker 2: Now right right right, We'll get hey, who do I

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Speaker 2: know on here?

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Speaker 1: Where are my people at?

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Speaker 2: I hate everyone's first Blue Sky skeet or whatever we're

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Speaker 2: calling it that they do and it's like, hey, trying

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Speaker 2: this thing out. It's always some version of that, like

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Speaker 2: an ellipsis. I'm like, yeah, I get it. I mean

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Speaker 2: I did something similar, but look, that's what you do.

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Speaker 1: So much of my Blue Sky contest is like Mark

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Speaker 1: Hamil is here and people think that's pretty neat.

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Speaker 3: The second one is always were so much better than

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Speaker 3: everyone who's still on Twitter?

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, exactly, Yeah, don't which.

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Speaker 3: Is true, but not worth that.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, don't don't let that be part of

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Speaker 2: your personality out loud.

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Speaker 1: No. Then they're like just posting fire over on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Well posts is terrible.

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Speaker 3: This is actually what I did for about a year. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I joined Blue Sky early enough to get the name

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Speaker 3: Margaret on it.

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Speaker 1: Margaret straight up Margaret killing it.

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Speaker 2: I know part of me wanted to just go on

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Speaker 2: a run of just owning every handle I could. That's

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Speaker 2: that a brand would want, and just be like I

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Speaker 2: am bed bath and Beyond on Blue Sky. But I

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Speaker 2: think they're a defunct company, know, so maybe it's not

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Speaker 2: the best idea.

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Speaker 1: I got in there early, but I've decided instead to

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Speaker 1: Jacob one or jack Ob one, but it does look

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Speaker 1: like Jacob. Yeah. Anyways, Miles are thrilled to be joined

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Speaker 1: in air third seat by an author, musician, podcast host

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Speaker 1: of the anarchist survivalist podcast Live Like the World Is

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Speaker 1: Dying and the podcast Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff

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Speaker 1: on Cool Zone Media. Her substack Birds Before the Storm

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Speaker 1: is a must read. Please welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 2: Margaret killed Joe.

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Speaker 1: Margaret.

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Speaker 2: Hi, she's back with the wisdom and she's great to

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Speaker 2: have you, Margaret, great to have you, great to have you.

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Speaker 3: I just went on a book tour and I met

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Speaker 3: people who came up and said they knew me because

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Speaker 3: of this show.

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Speaker 1: So oh, I love Gang Zeigang.

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Speaker 2: We love you. We love that. Shall support the people

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Speaker 2: that come on this show. That's really dope. That's super dope.

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Speaker 2: How was the book tour?

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Speaker 3: Oh it was amazing. I'm incredibly exhausted. I did twenty

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Speaker 3: seven cities and twenty eight events because somehow I went

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Speaker 3: to Brooklyn twice. Wow, I got years ago, and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, also shout out to the people we have

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Speaker 1: on this show who are worth going to visit in person.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm, that's awesome. Can you talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the books? What's the book?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to or the book called The Sapling Cage,

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Speaker 3: which is a it's technically not a YA. It's a

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Speaker 3: crossover which is YA, but you're admitting that adults read

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Speaker 3: it too, about a young trans girl witch who dresses

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Speaker 3: up as a girl to run away and join the

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Speaker 3: witches in a fantasy world and then has to help

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Speaker 3: everyone else save the world from people consolidating power through

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Speaker 3: destroying the environment, which is completely unrelatable to anyone who's reading.

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Speaker 2: Where do you come up with this stuff? Coming drugs

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Speaker 2: of drugs and think this wacky stuff up?

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Speaker 3: No, I spent a lot of time alone in the woods, honestly,

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Speaker 3: that is the actual answer, just right, meditating on what

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Speaker 3: it is, kind of losing my mind, but yeah, yeah, total.

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Speaker 2: It.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, losing your mind in the woods, the

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Speaker 1: original drugs. All right, Margaret, we want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about where we're at. A lot of people having

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Speaker 1: trouble moving forward, or from the election, you had a

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Speaker 1: great substack posts. That was one of the few things

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Speaker 1: that I think made us feel hopeful or you know,

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Speaker 1: like there are things to be done and that there

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Speaker 1: is a way to move forward in time. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into that, what fascism, what living under fascism

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Speaker 1: might look like, all of that, But first we do

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Speaker 1: want to get to know you a little bit better

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Speaker 1: by asking you, what is something from your search history

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Speaker 1: that's revealing about who you are?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I swear this is because of work, but Irish

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Speaker 3: Woman who tried to kill Mussolini was a very recent

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Speaker 3: search string for me.

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Speaker 2: Go on.

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Speaker 3: An awful lot of people tried to kill Mussolini. Eventually,

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Speaker 3: some partisans succeeded, right, and they hanged them upside down

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Speaker 3: and all of that, But.

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Speaker 1: I succeeded all at once. Yeah, failed, and then a

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Speaker 1: lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Succeed Hey, get your licks in on the street.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: The first person actually tried was this anarchist who immediately

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Speaker 3: snitched out and became a fascist. And then like his

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Speaker 3: like friends were like, hey, go kill Mussolini. He was

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Speaker 3: like totally and then he went over and was like,

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Speaker 3: they told me to kill you and what do I get?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: But then there was this Irish woman named Violet Gibson,

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Speaker 3: who I don't know enough about yet. I haven't finished

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Speaker 3: in the episode that I'm going to write about all

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Speaker 3: of the people who tried to kill me Mussolini, which

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Speaker 3: of course is coming up for no reason at all.

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Speaker 2: Right, He does Mussolini have like the record for most

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Speaker 2: attempted hits in terms of being like a dictator?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. I mean I can point to

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Speaker 3: four off the top of my head, right. One of

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Speaker 3: him was like a fifteen year old m But I

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Speaker 3: like this woman who shot him in the nose because

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Speaker 3: everyone was like she was crazy and she might have

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Speaker 3: actually just been crazy. I'm not sure yet Violet Gibson,

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Speaker 3: but she she shot him in the nose and then

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Speaker 3: it like grazed his nose and then tried to shoot again,

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Speaker 3: but the gun jammed.

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Speaker 1: Ah wow, a grazing of a single facial append whatever

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Speaker 1: those things are called, the things hanging off our faces?

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Speaker 1: And he yes, again unheard of. Where do you come

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Speaker 1: up with this stuff?

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Speaker 2: Lightly graized? Yes?

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Speaker 3: And it's funny because that this actually turned everyone. This

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Speaker 3: Mussolini was able to use this to like consolidate a

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Speaker 3: lot of power. I think this is what Trump was

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Speaker 3: hoping would happen, and then it just didn't. I mean

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Speaker 3: he won the election clearly, right right right, but no

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Speaker 3: one was like it dropped out of the news cycle

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Speaker 3: like and like we felt well.

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Speaker 2: I think that was a lot of people's reactions were like,

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Speaker 2: holy shit, the way he's going to use this, And

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Speaker 2: then most people are like Joe Biden dropped out? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: or not even based on the Google search is maybe

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Speaker 2: not everyone knew that so debatable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Irish having a moment, But first we talked

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Speaker 1: before the election about how the Irish model of politics

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Speaker 1: post the Trebles is one that we should look to,

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Speaker 1: especially with regards to local politics, proportional representation, that to

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Speaker 1: go through the troubles, to get still to go through

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Speaker 1: the troubles. And speaking of which, there's a new Hulu

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Speaker 1: show about the Travels that is apparently very good. Some

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Speaker 1: of the worst billboard advertising I've seen because they have

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Speaker 1: a woman's face and then the same woman's face but

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Speaker 1: she has like a black I think it's like a balaclava,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like she's dressed as a ninja and

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Speaker 1: it just I think it's called don't speak or say

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Speaker 1: nothing is the show?

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Speaker 2: But the the.

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Speaker 1: Image had me confused. I was like, ah, yes, the silence.

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Speaker 2: You know something ignorant dudes like do finally a white

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Speaker 2: ninja show?

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Speaker 3: White women get to be ninjas?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Or the other verse like great a woke white woman

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Speaker 2: ninja series. Everything except understanding what it's about.

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Speaker 1: That's supposed to be good Say nothing the sequel to

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Speaker 1: say anything? It is not, apparently, Margaret, what is something

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Speaker 1: you think is underrated?

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Speaker 3: I think underrated is organizing with your friends and community

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Speaker 3: assemblies of any scale, getting together with people and talking

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Speaker 3: about the problems you're facing and figuring out how to

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Speaker 3: deal with them together. People do it all over the world,

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Speaker 3: both instinctively and in an organized fashion, and it never

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Speaker 3: gets talked about, right.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there's a like a lot of this

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Speaker 2: stuff online will be like how do you like, how

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Speaker 2: do you organize? Like hang out with your friends? And

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Speaker 2: I feel like to just be like hang out with

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Speaker 2: your friends, but also like to your point, it's not

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Speaker 2: merely that. It's to collectively understand what you're up against

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Speaker 2: and just and then articulate something with then do some

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Speaker 2: kind of analysis with your friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like get a whiteboard and then be like, what

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Speaker 3: is the problem, What are the things that can be

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Speaker 3: used to solve the problem? How do you get those things?

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Speaker 2: Sure? Sure? Sure? Yeah? Yeah? Do you think that's like

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Speaker 2: an intentional thing? Like how organizing is sort of obscured

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Speaker 2: or made to be more digestible in a way that

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Speaker 2: is I don't know, like leaves out the real details,

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Speaker 2: because I feel like sometimes it the impression i'd get

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Speaker 2: on the internet is people it's been like and you

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Speaker 2: just hang out with people, and I do get I

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Speaker 2: mean understanding like building community like that is obviously one

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Speaker 2: aspect of it. But is that truly doing the kind

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Speaker 2: of like work you're describing.

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Speaker 3: That's a really interesting question because it is the step one, right,

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Speaker 3: is get people to actually go meet up with each other.

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Speaker 3: But the really important step, too is the outline your

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Speaker 3: problems and how you want to deal with it, right,

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Speaker 3: And leaving that out does seem like a dereliction of duty.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder whether it's because a lot of the

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Speaker 3: people writing about it, because writing is a different job

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Speaker 3: than organizing, and I write about organizing and I used

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Speaker 3: to do a lot of organizing, right, But I don't

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Speaker 3: do a lot of organizing anymore. I do a lot

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Speaker 3: of writing, so like maybe it's coming from there. More

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Speaker 3: people are like, it's the question mark question mark, profit

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Speaker 3: it part of the problem, right, But they're actually a

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Speaker 3: ton of like books and resources about the question mark

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Speaker 3: question mark of community organizing and they just don't get

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Speaker 3: they don't fit as well into your little Instagram slideshow

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Speaker 3: or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, right, sure, Yeah. The most insidious portrayal I've

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Speaker 1: seen of organizing is bringing this up a lot because

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Speaker 1: I'm old as fuck. Forrest Gump where where he goes, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the scene where he goes to Washington, d C. During

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Speaker 1: a protest and they just put him in a line

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Speaker 1: and they like all march around from place to place

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Speaker 1: like aimlessly, and like the idea is like they're just

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Speaker 1: organizing for the sake of following a leader, and everyone's

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Speaker 1: like performatively angry, but nothing is actually happening. And I

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Speaker 1: do think, yeah, I do think that the portrayal of

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Speaker 1: organizing in American mass media is specific designed. Like PCU

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Speaker 1: is another example of that, where it's just like these

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Speaker 1: people don't actually believe in what they're saying. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: just doing all this hard work because it makes them

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Speaker 1: feel superior and cooler than you.

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Speaker 3: Which is what people tell themselves to get themselves off

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Speaker 3: the hook for not doing something that they think maybe

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Speaker 3: they should. And you could just not organize. You don't

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Speaker 3: have to, Yeah you could, but yeah, like if you

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Speaker 3: feel like morally you should and they're and you're not,

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Speaker 3: so then you just turn around and be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: well those people are all posers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When's when's uh yeah, when's Ron Howard making a movie

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Speaker 2: about stokely Carmichael. I think that's gonna come out.

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Speaker 1: I mean that was Robert Zemeckis Forrest Gump. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: much just.

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Speaker 2: You know, but it feels like one of those things

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Speaker 2: that they're like, this could be a great story to

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Speaker 2: tell and will take out all the teeth from it.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: What is something, Margaret that you think is overrated? I

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Speaker 3: think party politics are overrated?

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Speaker 2: I think you want Trump to win?

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Speaker 3: Huh yeah, no, yeah exactly, like, yeah, it's overrated. Not

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Speaker 3: refuse to ever deal with or in knowledge, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: that attitude that you're talking about a butt. As soon

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Speaker 3: as the election is over, people are like, well, we

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Speaker 3: tried and we lost, so now we're done and we'll

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Speaker 3: just have to accept and wait for the next tournament

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Speaker 3: in four years. Like that's not what the world.

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Speaker 2: Is, right, that's how sports works. And maybe that's the

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Speaker 2: things like, well, we dust ourselves off and we'll get

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Speaker 2: them next time. It's like, yeah, there's that whole in

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Speaker 2: between part we need to think about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like the part so you vote, your side loses,

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Speaker 1: and then you get the t shirt that says, don't

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Speaker 1: don't blame me, I voted for her, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: the second step, right, Yeah, yeah, I think you.

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Speaker 4: Wear that And well, yeah, alright, let's take a quick

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Speaker 4: break and we'll come back and talk about the reaction

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Speaker 4: the election and just generally where do we go from here.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back and we're back, We're back, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think a lot of people are

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Speaker 1: having trouble dealing with the aftermath of the election, the loss,

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Speaker 1: the resounding defeat of the Democratic Party. To your point

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Speaker 1: about big party politics. I think people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: what do we.

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Speaker 2: Blewing on?

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Speaker 1: Should we just like join bluing on and say the

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Speaker 1: election was stolen?

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Speaker 2: Startling?

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Speaker 1: What do we do from here?

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Speaker 2: I think? Yeah, yeah, I mean like for me personally,

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Speaker 2: I think my first reaction was like, oh, fuck, bro,

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Speaker 2: they're going to do the thing. They won and they're

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Speaker 2: going to do the thing. And I think as people

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Speaker 2: process with the future, sure will bring it's important to

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Speaker 2: like grieve and just sort of like process what's happening.

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Speaker 2: But then also we have to begin to sort of

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Speaker 2: turn a page on some level. But I'm curious, Margaret,

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Speaker 2: just from like what you've seen, did anything strike you

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Speaker 2: in terms of how people have reacted to the election.

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Speaker 3: I think that there's a lot of people to almost

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Speaker 3: don't know how to feel. Like obviously in certain communities

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Speaker 3: you're like, well, this directly affects me immediately. I have

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Speaker 3: friends who are running around trying to get their gender

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Speaker 3: markers to match what they look like or what they

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Speaker 3: want to look like. By the time then you know,

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Speaker 3: the whole thing's over, and like you know, are people

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Speaker 3: who are like running out trying to get their tubes

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Speaker 3: tied and stuff right, and like just trying to get

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Speaker 3: all of the healthcare that they might not be able

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Speaker 3: to get. Sure, but I think that there's this kind

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Speaker 3: of people aren't sure whether we're just looking at there's

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Speaker 3: like this like more radical than now cynicism where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be twenty sixteen again, and we survived

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Speaker 3: it last time, which isn't entirely true, but most people did,

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Speaker 3: you know, and so we'll survive it again and it'll

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Speaker 3: just be the same. And everyone who's saying Trump is

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Speaker 3: that much worse, is you know, giving into it, is

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Speaker 3: not successfully critical enough of America as an evil empire

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Speaker 3: or whatever, right, And then there's the people who are like, well,

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Speaker 3: Trump two point zero might be hitler and I mean

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Speaker 3: the whole spectrum as possible, and that's what's so terrifying, right,

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Speaker 3: And we don't know, and so I feel like it's

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Speaker 3: going to be like halfway between the two. But that's

441
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 3: the main thing I'm seeing is people are kind of

442
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 3: sorting themselves into the sky is falling, it's over right, right,

443
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 3: get the hell out, we gotta go. And then there's

444
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 3: the like, what are you panicking about? It'll just be

445
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 3: the same thing as always, you know.

446
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: Look, it's a bunch of stupid people he's appointing.

447
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, they'll be ineffective and we're good here. Yeah, yeah,

448
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: either way, as long as I don't have to do

449
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: anything I'm good with either of these potential theories.

450
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, It's exactly that. It's the well, I'm no,

451
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 3: it's ways for our brain to trick us in a

452
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 3: no feeling obliged to take action.

453
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 2: Right right. Yeah. I think that's the thing that I

454
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: think a lot of people, I think for me personally,

455
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: like when you looked at the binary between Harris and Trump,

456
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 2: you're like, well, Harris allows us to kick the can

457
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: down the road for just a little bit longer. It'll

458
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: still be grinding people down to dust, but it won't

459
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: be as on the same sort of trajectory as a

460
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: Trump presidency would. And I think that is one of

461
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: the like, to your point, it is one of those things.

462
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: Now it's like, there's no way at this point having

463
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: you know, an articulated project twenty twenty five or what

464
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: their goals are and who he's putting into positions of power.

465
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 2: It does feel like, yeah, there's really no space to

466
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 2: just be like, I don't know, like, can I be

467
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: passive at this point and expect everything to go okay?

468
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: Because I don't think the examples in history are sort

469
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: of demonstrate that.

470
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're not kind to the people who are

471
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 3: passive during the rise of fascism in their country, right right, Yeah.

472
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: I think people who get their worldview from the mainstream media.

473
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: You know, for a long time, I think this was

474
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: you know, this was me have a hard time imagining

475
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: where to go from here because the world in your

476
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: substack post, which is really good. Everybody should go check

477
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: it out.

478
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: Youta dot com.

479
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: There you go. You you quote this crime Think article

480
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: that says a Trump victory means that all the institutions

481
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: that centrists have counted on to protect them electoral politics,

482
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: the court system, the police, ordinary citizens inclination to obey

483
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: the law and respect the authorities are now weapons in

484
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: the hands of their enemies, which I think is just

485
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: it's such a radical shift for And by the way,

486
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: you don't quote that part, but when I went to

487
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: the article you linked off to, that was something that

488
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: jumped out to me as like kind of summarizing what

489
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: is so different for from like where we were in

490
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, and how people could like get on board

491
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: with all, right, well, we're going to root for a

492
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: good guy at the FBI to counterbalance Trump, and now

493
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: it feels like, no, the they've captured kind of all

494
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: of that. This needs to be kind of coming from

495
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: a different what's next needs to look a lot different

496
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: than cheering for a Robert Muller investigation and like, you know,

497
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: checking for hourly updates on MSNBC of the various things

498
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: that Trump is doing that are wrong and violating norms.

499
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: And I think people sense that because nobody's watching MSNBC anymore.

500
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: But I think they're trying to figure out, like, where

501
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: where do we go now?

502
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you're right. I think it's that

503
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: they are absolutely positioning themselves to take all of the

504
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 3: different chunks of the state and apply it towards a

505
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: potentially fascist end. Like the de wocification of the military

506
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 3: that they're talking about doing, right, you know, is right, Yeah,

507
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: which it creates an interesting situation and I want to

508
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: use interesting to not say good, But it creates an

509
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: interesting situation where you're now going to probably have a

510
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: bunch of like generals and like a pretty large chunk

511
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: of the most powerful military in the world suddenly kicked

512
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: out of the most powerful military in the world. And right,

513
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: that's complicated.

514
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: That has historically not gone that well for the people

515
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: who kick them out. Right, Yeah, the country in which

516
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: they get kicked.

517
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: Out, and yeah, and and have the institution of power,

518
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 3: like the the different parts of the state potentially being

519
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: in conflict with each other. Like actually, or rather in

520
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 3: this case, if you have the capture of the entire state,

521
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: instead of having this sort of like oh, the FBI

522
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 3: is like a little bit investigating Trump or whatever, It's like, well,

523
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: now if I don't know if Trump runs all of it,

524
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 3: I don't know where I'm going with this.

525
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: I maybe the DOJ will. Yeah, I mean, they can

526
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: definitely do a lot to not tell them to be like, no,

527
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: we're not looking into that. Yeah, pretend to like they

528
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 2: did with Brett Kavanaugh. Yeah, when he was like on

529
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: his way to confirmation.

530
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 3: And if anything that goes to the Supreme Court is

531
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: just not we're just screwed on, you know, right. But yeah,

532
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: but it puts us in a situation where it's like, Okay,

533
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: well we have to we can no longer count on

534
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: daddy state to save us, right, because you can still

535
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 3: look at the fact that actual progressive values are massively

536
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: popular in this country, even in the deepest red states.

537
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 3: You know, people are going like fifty seven sixty percent

538
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: on abortion rights, and you know, we're getting like Muslim

539
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: and trans and like a lot of different people are

540
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 3: like winning these local elections, even in these areas that

541
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 3: didn't go for for Harris, you know, and and so

542
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: the people we shouldn't give up on yet, you know,

543
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: we just need methods by which to organize ourselves to

544
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: counter the stuff that's happening.

545
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: Right.

546
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was another sort of immediate election

547
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: response that I was actually at least happening in my brain,

548
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: where you're just like being in public and just being like,

549
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: like fifty over half of these people are you know,

550
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: over And that first of all isn't a safe assumption

551
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, but also just yeah, I feel like

552
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: people are a lot of the values that are important

553
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: to me are important to a lot of Americans and

554
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: have been like demonstrably so. But that there are all

555
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: sorts of reasons that we've talked about that people voted

556
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: for Trump. None of them good, but I don't think

557
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: all of them are. Just there are half the people

558
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: I see on a daily basis are evil, and I

559
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: should be afraid of them. It is probably not the

560
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: way to move forward through time.

561
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: Like I just I think the other thing that is

562
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: affecting people a lot. Is just like when you look

563
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: at the media right now, especially in this last week,

564
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: it just feels like the capitulation is just it's on

565
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 2: right now, you know, it's bend the knee fest at

566
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: mar A Lago. Like on MSNBC on Monday morning, Joe

567
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: Scarborough and Meeker Brazinski, they're like, so, we went to

568
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: mar A Lago to speak with President elect Trump, just

569
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: to begin to restart our lines of communication, but it

570
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: totally read as this sort of thing like, hey, viewers,

571
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: we should just lay down and die and be nice

572
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: to them because we don't know what the fuck they're thinking.

573
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: And I think it's really hard to watch sort of

574
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: the Fourth Estate like erode even further in real time

575
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: like this, and that's very disorienting. But it just feels

576
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: like at the moment, you're just getting a lot of

577
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: stories that creates this feeling that this impending experiment with

578
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: fascism should just be accepted. And I think that's kind

579
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: of like this fork in the road that we're at.

580
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: There's the version where people like, so should I just

581
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: watch it but be internally upset by everything I'm seeing?

582
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: Or is there also a path where I'm I can

583
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: do something that invigorates me. And I think that's kind

584
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: of I feel like most people, I think, for us

585
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 2: to really resist this with any kind of intention and effectiveness,

586
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 2: we have to take the path where we begin to

587
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: prepare ourselves for action. Doesn't mean you're brawling in the streets,

588
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: but that politics and the direction that the country's going

589
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: isn't just merely a thing that we're going to watch

590
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: just completely burn up in flames. That there is some

591
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: you know, like you said in your substack posts, that

592
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: we need to sort of get in touch with our agency.

593
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: What how do you like? So is it good to

594
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: look at it as this sort of like forking off,

595
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: Like there's a version of what this administration looks like

596
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: if we all just say, oh my god, it's over,

597
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: it's cooked, We're cooked, and there what's And then there's

598
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: the version where we can at least get a little

599
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: bit more in touch with what we're able to do

600
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: as people collectively.

601
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and I think that I think that

602
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: the fork in the road is accurate. And there's also

603
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: like wild Pie and the Sky dreams are worth articulating

604
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: and fighting for. You know, there is a version of

605
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: this where okay, the pie in the sky dream is

606
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: not what I'm about to say, but there's a version

607
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 3: of this where he crashes the US economy right where

608
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: tariffs just destroy the US economy and therefore the world

609
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: economy and so like, that would be bad. But if

610
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: we are able to articulate, like our wild pie and

611
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: the sky dreams about what we can do during crisis,

612
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: we will be better positioned to do that. And so I,

613
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: like I went and did only for a couple of days,

614
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: but I went immediately after Hurricane Helene to Asheville, North Carolina,

615
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: because that's where I lived for a long time, and

616
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 3: my friends needed some of the stuff I had, and

617
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 3: I went to go drive supplies around everywhere, you know,

618
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: And in the middle of the worst disaster that that

619
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: area has faced in recorded history, I saw people just

620
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: building amazing communities and mutual aid and a lot of

621
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 3: people including not just like the anarchists and the socialists

622
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: and the you know, lefty Christians and stuff like this,

623
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: not just the people who normally say this stuff. Everyone

624
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: is like, well, what if we just live this way?

625
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: What if we just take care of each other?

626
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: You know, And.

627
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 3: That is not what's likely to happen in North Carolina

628
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 3: in the immediate future, right, But some of those systems

629
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: have now been deepened, And so I think that getting

630
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 3: ready to fight for some of the immediate problems that

631
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 3: are likely to come up with the Trump presidency also

632
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: positions us really well to articulate what we really want,

633
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 3: and if the opportunity for those things occurs, to positioners

634
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: ourselves well to try and fight to get it. And

635
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: I think that, for example, I would say, off the

636
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: top of my head or not the top of my head,

637
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 3: the thing I've been thinking about for a couple of

638
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 3: weeks is probably the most clear and important organizing that

639
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 3: needs to happen on a mass level is to fight

640
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 3: the mass deportation.

641
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: Right.

642
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: I know that like trans people and migrants are the

643
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: two groups that are likely to become after to come

644
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: after that, the state is likely to come after the

645
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: most in a Trump presidency. And I don't mean to

646
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 3: put down the importance of trans organizing, but it just numerically,

647
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: I think organizing to protect migrants is the most important whatever, right,

648
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: And I think that we can do that, and I

649
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: think that we can do that, and we can build

650
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: a movement around that that is like heterogeneous and not

651
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: just one voice, one name, one tactic, one group, Right,

652
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: I think that we can have multiple groups working in coordination.

653
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: I think it's the most effective method anyway. And I

654
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: think that if we do that, we can really start

655
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 3: looking at saying like, well, what if, like we can

656
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 3: take care of each other. And since we can take

657
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: care of each other, why do we need to listen

658
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: to you know, this increasingly fascist state in the first place.

659
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point.

660
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: So, like, because I think for a lot of people

661
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: who I think listening to this show, people have like

662
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: varying degrees of involvement and activism, But I think most

663
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: people that listen to this show are deeply disturbed by

664
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: what a Trump presidency can bring. And I mean, if

665
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: they're they're still listening at this point, are pretty much

666
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: bought in on the fact that we really all have

667
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 2: to look after each other in order for any like

668
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: for this kind of collective sort of mutual aid or

669
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: action to work. What for for people who are dipping

670
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: their toe into this for the first time, what do

671
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: you say to them to sort of begin to say, look,

672
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: I get it. For the most part, you've probably not

673
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: had you've been able to be on the sidelines and

674
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: just observe what's happening. Maybe you've donated, maybe you've gone

675
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: to a march or two, But here is the work

676
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: that we can all be thinking about without you know,

677
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 2: to understand that it's incremental or however deep you want

678
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: to jump in. But what do you think is like

679
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 2: a first step, just mentally for someone to take to say, Okay,

680
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: there are some things we're going to have to resist.

681
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: I do care about my community. What do I do now?

682
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: What's my frame of mind I need to enter and

683
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: think about the actions I can take That sort of

684
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 2: help take that first step down that road.

685
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one thing to do is, both personally

686
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: and with your groups of friends, think about what kind

687
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: of actions you're willing to take, what kind of risks

688
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: you're willing to take, and also who you're willing to

689
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: support who might be taking further risks than you, And

690
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 3: then also think about what you're good at or what

691
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 3: you would like to be good at, and then how

692
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: to apply it to those things. So, for example, if

693
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 3: you get together differends and you could say, look, none

694
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 3: of us have any protest experience, but Honestly, if someone

695
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 3: who's helping organize tells us where to stand in front

696
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 3: of buses, we will go stand in front of buses

697
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: to keep them from taking migrants out.

698
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: Right.

699
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 3: This is a tactic that has been used effectively in

700
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: the United States before. Right, And maybe that's a level

701
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: of risk you're willing to take, but maybe it's not

702
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: a level of risk you're willing to take. And in

703
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: which case you're like, well, I'm I'm the sole provider

704
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: for my family, or I have panic attacks, or you know,

705
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,959
Speaker 3: whatever it is, Right, you could also say, well, who

706
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: do I know who is willing to take those risks?

707
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 3: What kind of support work do they need?

708
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: Right?

709
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: What kind of do they need? You know, are there

710
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 3: legal support lines that will crop up? Because one of

711
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: the things is during crisis, opportunity arises, and that also

712
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 3: includes opportunities to get involved. So if you're kind of

713
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: preparing yourself to be ready and then you start seeing

714
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 3: these groups that start doing a thing, well, then you

715
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: can start saying like, oh, okay, I am prepared to

716
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 3: go sit by a phone and bail people out of jail. Right,

717
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 3: that is a level that I am willing to do. Right,

718
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: And then when something comes up, you can reach out

719
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 3: to that group and say, hey, I'm willing to do this.

720
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: The other thing you can do is you can reach

721
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: out proactively to anywhere that you live the groups that

722
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: help migrants in those areas, because those are likely to

723
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: be the sort of nukeli of larger coalitions or organizations

724
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 3: that are.

725
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: Likely to come up.

726
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: And then you could also start something. If you don't

727
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 3: find something in your area that like matches your vibe,

728
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 3: you can start something and then be in communication with

729
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 3: those groups. And maybe you start with something that like, well,

730
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 3: then maybe there aren't any buses to block yet because

731
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 3: of where you live, right, you probably shouldn't go around

732
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: and like compile lists of all the undocumented people in

733
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: your area. That's probably a bad idea, right, you know.

734
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: Just to support you, can I get your name? Yeah

735
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: and you live here? Yea great? Great?

736
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: Great?

737
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

738
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I think that reaching out to groups

739
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 3: that are already doing it and or forming like there's

740
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: a there's a concept called the ffinity group, which is

741
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 3: as the sort of cell level of a decentralized movement.

742
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: It's the like group of three to seven people or

743
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 3: twenty people whatever.

744
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: I don't care you.

745
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: Know that all have each other's backs really deeply. And

746
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that everyone's necessarily going to go out

747
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 3: in the streets, but they are. But they're the people

748
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: that you're going to organize with to get involved in

749
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: other things. And this maximizes your ability to come at

750
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: those to join those groups with agency. It also helps

751
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 3: prevent you from there's this kind of thing that you

752
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 3: should be careful when you're new at activism, especially direct

753
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: action activism like blocking buses or something right where some

754
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: of the cynical older organizers are going to be like, oh,

755
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 3: you're young and impressionistic. Why don't you take all the risk,

756
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 3: you know, right? And that's like not great, right, And

757
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 3: so the more that you think about this ahead of time,

758
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 3: the more you can go into a meeting and being like,

759
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 3: I won't get peer pressured into the following action because

760
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: I know ahead of time that I'm not willing to

761
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 3: do that right now. Maybe three actions down from now,

762
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 3: you decide you aren't willing to go get arrested, you know, right.

763
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's uh let's take a quick break. We'll come

764
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: back and we'll keep talking about specific things we can

765
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: do and uh, other other aspects of your posts that

766
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: are giving us hope We'll be right back, and we're back.

767
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: You have this sentence about kind of a psychological dynamic

768
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: that I've found to be true that I thought was

769
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: really important that you write. A therapist friend of mine

770
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: reiterates to me all the time that acting with agency

771
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: is the primary way to avoid being traumatized but by

772
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: negative experiences. This is this is a big thing in

773
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: recovery from like addiction. There's like the serenity prayer that

774
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: I think everybody has heard, where it asks for the

775
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: courage to change the things you have power over. But

776
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: I've had somebody who I've worked with pointed out it's

777
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: actually like the reverse.

778
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: A lot of the.

779
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 1: Time, you change the things that need to be changed,

780
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: and the courage comes from that. But you need you

781
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: need that first action to build on and hopefully it's

782
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: not an action that kind of meets with Yeah, like

783
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: you were saying, like manipulation or shame or dismissiveness. So

784
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: I like that so far, you've been kind of emphasizing

785
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: building with people you know and trust to begin with,

786
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: and then like plugging into existing existing groups. But yeah,

787
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: doing so kind of in a in a well informed way. Yeah, yeah, anyways,

788
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: I thought that was cool where you also talk about

789
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: this need to de escalate conflict that isn't with the enemy.

790
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: And one thing that's come up a few times in

791
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the election for me is this idea

792
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: that I feel like we need to really in some

793
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: political way that feels real, like target the mainstream Democratic

794
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: Party and it like more specifically like not allow them

795
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: to do the thing they do with activism. That is, basically,

796
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: any anything that you are doing that doesn't like fall

797
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: within the realm of like neoliberalism is actually unrealistic and

798
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: childish basically. But I guess I'm curious when you say

799
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 1: de escalate conflict that isn't with the enemy, like who

800
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: is the enemy? Are you deciding that kind of person

801
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: by person and just or group by group, or how

802
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: are you thinking about that?

803
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 3: I make that decision conflict by conflict. If I find

804
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 3: myself like kind of in a conflict, I have to

805
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 3: think to myself, like, is this person my enemy? And

806
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: sometimes even if they're like ideologically the same as me,

807
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 3: in surface ways, they might be my enemy, right if

808
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: someone is trying to hurt me or my friends, Right,

809
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: you know, But then even then I'm kind of like,

810
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 3: on the other hand, I've successfully de escalated conflicts with

811
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: people who are trying to hurt me physically, you know,

812
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 3: and that is a better solution to that problem, right

813
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 3: than if I had like beat them up or gotten

814
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 3: beaten up. Right. But I do think that I can't

815
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: dictate for other people what counts as the enemy as

816
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: much as like say, if you are in a conflict,

817
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 3: just really saying yourself, is this person actually my enemy?

818
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: And most of the time they're not. And it is

819
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: interesting to me because overall people, individual people are unlikely

820
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 3: to be my enemy. There are individuals like just fascists, right,

821
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 3: people who are like, I'm a fascist. I like fascism, right,

822
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 3: But if they stop being fascists, they probably stop being

823
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: my enemy. And I think we need to have like

824
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: an off road for people to leave hate groups and

825
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 3: things like that. But there's also I live in like

826
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 3: a center, right the I live in West Virginia. There

827
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: is not a county in West Virginia that went for Harris,

828
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: which is depressing because West Virginia exists because it's the

829
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 3: part of Virginia that didn't want to die over slavery right,

830
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: and you know, actually died on the other side, like

831
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 3: fighting against slavery. But it is what it is. It

832
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: is now a center right state or a deep right state,

833
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 3: depending on where you're at.

834
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: But I don't believe.

835
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: I don't conceive of my neighbors as my enemies, and

836
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: I'm grateful that they do not appear to conceive of

837
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 3: me as their enemy either, right, But the Republican Party

838
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 3: is my enemy, and yeah, frankly, the Democratic Party is

839
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 3: also my enemy, at least structurally. I believe that the

840
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 3: Democratic Party exists to co opt protest energy and like

841
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 3: movement energy and turn it into this thing that has

842
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 3: never proven once that it can shift things to the left.

843
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 3: All it can do is slow, not even stop slow

844
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 3: right word creep right, right right. And so they are

845
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 3: doing the work that I oppose, and I want to

846
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: oppose it, and so I'm going to organize to oppose it.

847
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 3: And I I have enemies on the left. I specifically

848
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 3: strongly disagree with authoritarian like communist tendencies and not the problem.

849
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: My problem here isn't the word communism. The problem here

850
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: for me is the word authoritarian like I And I'm

851
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 3: not trying to tell anyone in the crowd what to think.

852
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 3: But I like, I am opposed to people trying to

853
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: advocate for a totalitarian society, regardless of what it's.

854
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: Called, you know.

855
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 3: And but but then the people who are necessarily sometimes

856
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 3: the people who are arguing for that are could be

857
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 3: fellow travelers, and they've just been convinced that there's this

858
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: strategy that will magically work that has never worked, you know.

859
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 3: And and so enemy is weird. It is weird to

860
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 3: have enemies. But I also don't want to be like

861
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 3: there is no enemy. We're all friends, right, sometimes.

862
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: Hug everyone Thanksgiving?

863
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, like.

864
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: You were saying earlier, like hey, it doesn't necessarily mean

865
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: rumble in the streets, but like sometimes it does, right,

866
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: And like maybe you don't want to go rumble in

867
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 3: the streets, dear listener, but you should support the people

868
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 3: who beat up fascist in the streets, because overall, fascism

869
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 3: is a coward's ideology. And once they get beat up

870
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 3: in the streets, they stop coming into the streets, and

871
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 3: then they stop building successful movement. That is not the

872
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 3: only or the most effective strategy with which to confront them.

873
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 3: But the people who go and fight them are my friends?

874
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: You know?

875
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: Right yeah, I'm like, because right now I think you're

876
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: we're beginning to see a lot of misidentifying of quote

877
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: unquote enemies yea, because you know, because the Democratic Party

878
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,479
Speaker 2: is in total free fall and you have people who

879
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: were on the verge of like sort of seeing the

880
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: light about being like this party is actually truly ineffective,

881
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: and it just feels it's the really good at empty

882
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: promises and co opting that. Like twenty twenty, it was

883
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: like we need to do something about the police, and

884
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 2: then Joe Biden's like we should just be a little

885
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 2: bit nicer to them. You're like, wait, what the fuck?

886
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: And they're like this just makes your head spin. And

887
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 2: then there's this version too where you see a lot

888
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: of people who are now from like the you know,

889
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: sort of establishment side of the party, people who are

890
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: like blue no matter who types. Immediately now going after again,

891
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: we're seeing like the woke is broke, like why was there,

892
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: why were we trying? Why are we bothering to protect

893
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 2: vulnerable people like the trans community or what or the

894
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: people who are like, hey, Arab voters. I hope you're

895
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: happy now because look who Trump just appointed yeah, you know,

896
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 2: and that's where I'm seeing, like, that's that's a that's

897
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 2: gonna be a huge setback for sort of like bring

898
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: like creating a larger coalition. But the way those people

899
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: speak at the moment, they're not ready. I think for

900
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: the bigger picture, they are still very much hyper focused

901
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: on the pain of the election loss and are just

902
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: trying to be like it wasn't because of the policies,

903
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: it's because of them. Don't ask me to interrogate what

904
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: the policies are, because I'm not I'm just not interested

905
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: in that conversation.

906
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: What how do you like?

907
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: I guess historically when you see like sort of a

908
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: party that was in power, seemed like it was quote

909
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 2: unquote doing the right things, then collapsed to sort of

910
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: like usher in fascism, what happens to like the scraps

911
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 2: of like the people that were supporting that party, And

912
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: like how important is it for to find to remind

913
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: people of like what the larger issue is because more

914
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 2: people you see more people people blaming than system blaming. Yeah,

915
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 2: And I think that's what's interesting is like the needles

916
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: definitely a lot of people, plenty of people are blaming

917
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 2: the system but it feels like more people are blaming

918
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: other people at the moment.

919
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: I think that's a really important point, that people are

920
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 3: blaming people instead of systems. And I think overall we

921
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: need to try and be doing like coalition building and

922
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 3: stuff with people who are looking to do coalition building,

923
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 3: who are looking to find to work pluralistically, like to

924
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: you have this kind of a tolerance paradox. You know

925
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 3: that if you tolerate intolerance, then you lose your tolerance

926
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: or whatever, right, And I think that that's the same

927
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 3: is true for like working logically put pluralistically, where there

928
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 3: are so many people that we can work with who

929
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 3: have no problem not trying to dominate the movement and

930
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: tell everyone what to do. You know, in an activist

931
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 3: spaces we see this really easily, where like the average

932
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 3: church group isn't trying to convert you, you know, if

933
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 3: they're if they're activists, if they're Christian nationalists, they're trying

934
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 3: to convert or kill you, right, But the average like

935
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: we're the Catholics of the Protestants who bring food to

936
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 3: the border and give it away, Like those people aren't

937
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 3: trying to like save your soul. They're just trying to

938
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: feed you and because they understand those as related, you know,

939
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: or in their own theological understandings, and so you can

940
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 3: work in coalition, you could, they would work with like

941
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 3: Satanists for feeding migrants, right, And and so it's I know,

942
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 3: I'm kind of only going with half of what you

943
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 3: were saying, and I apologize for that.

944
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no.

945
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 3: But but then to the other part of your question

946
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 3: about what happens when totalitarian takes over. One of the

947
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 3: things that I think that people aren't quite as much

948
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 3: as like, my goal is to spread hope, but not

949
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 3: ignorant hope, right. My goal is to we have to

950
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 3: soberly look at how bad this situation is so that

951
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 3: we can successfully confront it. And one of the things

952
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 3: that could happen and has happened a lot, is that

953
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: when totalitarian and totalitarianism comes in, it comes in fast.

954
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 3: You know, when Hitler came to power, he was arresting

955
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 3: his enemies of the night he came to power, right,

956
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: And that's not always the case. I actually don't think

957
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 3: that's going to be the case in the United States.

958
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 3: That is, I'm still in the United States, you know,

959
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 3: like making my decisions based on the fact that I

960
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 3: don't think that Trump is going to come to power

961
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 3: and then immediately arrest all the leftist podcasters in the

962
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 3: progressives and whatever. Right, he might criminalize a bunch of stuff,

963
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 3: and he will make organizing hard, and he will start.

964
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,959
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, there actually are already groups

965
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 3: he's planning to criminalize and do horrible things too. And

966
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 3: so it's almost like self important for like for those

967
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 3: of us who are citizens to like, oh, well, he

968
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 3: might do the following. He's like, he said, which very

969
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 3: large group of people he wants to put into camps.

970
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: He doesn't mean it. We've all learned. Yeah, he tells

971
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: us the horrible thing he's about. Oh wait a second, Yeah,

972
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: he always does. He's done it every time. That's right.

973
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 3: He's actually the most honest politician we've had in this

974
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 3: country for a very long time. Someone's gonna use that

975
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 3: out of context. He he tries to hold to his

976
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 3: campaign promises. Right, they're monsters. He's like, I'm going to

977
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: be a monster, and everyone's like, hooray, He's going to

978
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 3: be a monster, and then he is so, and then

979
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 3: of course all of the people who are going to

980
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 3: go benth and knee and I really like that framing

981
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 3: of it. I think that's a good framing of it.

982
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 3: There's no safety in that, like there's no Yeah, there's

983
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 3: the all of the people who voted for him and

984
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 3: are like now gonna all of their stuff is going

985
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: to be twice as expensive. You know, it's anyway whatever.

986
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could kill it on eBay as a seller.

987
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 3: He just bought a ton of like some Chinese made

988
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: stuff and yeah, just.

989
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: Something something else that you raised that. I think the

990
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: election results should probably have made clear to a lot

991
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: of people. But you're right that moderate reforms are won

992
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: by making radical demands. If you demand moderate reforms, you

993
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: generally get nothing. And it just also it seems like

994
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: the suppressing of the protests helped cause the democratic kind

995
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: of cratering that we just saw. Both the suppressing of

996
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: the pro Palestinian protests on college campuses, but just protests

997
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: in general by the Democratic Party is like something they

998
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: feels like they've been pretty hostile towards and thus it's

999
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: been harder for people on the left to build kind

1000
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: of community and sort of the structures that we're talking

1001
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: about needing. But give examples of like the two types

1002
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: of movements like the radical demands versus like the ones

1003
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: that make moderate demands. Yeah, yeah, I.

1004
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: Could do that.

1005
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 3: But first of your point about the suppressing protests, I

1006
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 3: think the Democratic Party is very good at building off

1007
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 3: of the momentum of protests and from my point of view,

1008
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 3: co opting it. But that's not the only way to

1009
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 3: view it. And so yeah, of course, but then they

1010
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 3: want to be the only adults in the room, so

1011
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 3: when they're in charge, everyone is a bunch of children

1012
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 3: if they protest against them, and so yeah, of course

1013
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 3: it doesn't work. Like I think if they were smarter,

1014
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 3: they would have been like, we too, support free Palestine

1015
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: without doing anything. They would have to All they would

1016
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 3: have to do is give lip service, right, And you

1017
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 3: see Biden try to pull this at the last minute,

1018
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,959
Speaker 3: being like thirty days and then later being like just kidding,

1019
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: I don't care.

1020
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: Do whatever you want. Psch. Yeah.

1021
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 3: But in terms of radical and moderate demands, okay, the

1022
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 3: abolition of legal chattel slavery in the United States, it

1023
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 3: the reformist abolition. They tried that for a century or so.

1024
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 3: And the primary argument that they would make is they

1025
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 3: came up with all these like you know, They saw

1026
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 3: it as like very mature and compromising positions where they're like, well,

1027
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 3: what if we slowly buy people out of slavery, Like

1028
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: what if we allow you know, we have to of

1029
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 3: course we have to pay back the slave owners, right.

1030
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 3: You know, they of course need to because their property

1031
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 3: has been taken away from them, you know. And there's

1032
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 3: all of these arguments that they made for a very

1033
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: long time. And now some of the reforms that they've

1034
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 3: pushed for, I will say actually did accomplish things like

1035
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 3: stopping importation of enslaved people had some impact, but it

1036
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 3: very clearly took a zealot, right, well, it took a

1037
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 3: lot of zalots and a lot of blood to stop

1038
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 3: legal chattel slavery in the United States. It took a

1039
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 3: whole ass war, and it took the demand We're going

1040
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 3: to kill you if you don't stop enslaving people, right.

1041
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 3: That was the demand that made any of this possible.

1042
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 3: And what's funny is that they actually could have the

1043
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 3: South could have at that point probably sued for peace

1044
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 3: in a way that there was like, okay, we accept

1045
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 3: the compromise. Pay us for what we could have, pay

1046
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 3: us for our losses and we'll stop, like that was

1047
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 3: a that was an offer that they that was on

1048
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 3: the table more or less, right, and so they could

1049
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 3: have gotten the moderate thing, but instead they were like

1050
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 3: wanted to go whole hog and got killed.

1051
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: And to help with them.

1052
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 3: But another example of this, like gaining moderate things by

1053
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: being a radical group is you have the Young Lords,

1054
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: which is a Puerto Rican radical movement comparable to the

1055
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 3: Black Panthers in the nineteen sixties and seventies, and they

1056
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 3: were in Chicago and New York City primarily. They're actually

1057
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 3: still around, but they're like sort of heyday, and some

1058
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 3: of the things that they accomplished are really tangible. We

1059
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 3: have the Patient's Bill of Rights. They did a lot

1060
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 3: of healthcare focused work, right. They like took over hospitals

1061
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 3: time and time again, well maybe only twice, I don't remember,

1062
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:49,959
Speaker 3: but they did it a bunch.

1063
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: Right.

1064
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 3: They would like go in carjack X ray vans and

1065
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,479
Speaker 3: bring them into neighborhoods like where minorities were living, because

1066
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 3: the x ray vans were only going into these white

1067
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 3: neighborhoods in order to search for tuberculosis and stuff in

1068
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 3: the community.

1069
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 1: Right.

1070
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 3: And they also got trash pickup in New York City.

1071
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 3: They completely got it overhauled. And it wasn't that they

1072
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: formed the coalition of concerned voters who care about trash pickup,

1073
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 3: could you please change the way that trash is picked up.

1074
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 3: They just started collecting all the trash and burning it

1075
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 3: in the streets. And then instead of doing it in

1076
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 3: their own neighborhood, they'd drag it out to like the

1077
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 3: busy intersections where like the rich people had to drive,

1078
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 3: and then they would just throw street parties and burn

1079
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 3: all the trash. And finally the city was like, all right,

1080
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: we'll we'll start doing this. What they were fighting for

1081
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 3: was a free Puerto Rico, right, right, And they didn't

1082
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 3: get that right, but by trying to get that, they

1083
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 3: got an awful lot, and they got stuff that people

1084
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 3: who were asking for moderate demands weren't going to get ever.

1085
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, because in your subject you also point to

1086
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 2: the summer of twenty twenty, like it rightly, It wasn't

1087
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 2: like we're like we want Joe Biden, so we're out here,

1088
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: you know, because people are in the streets been like

1089
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 2: we need to defund this ship. These people like we

1090
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: have authoritarian anti black racism, like with people who are

1091
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: have been given the blessing by the state to take

1092
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: people's lives. We need to fucking end this.

1093
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: Find the police phrase ever come up with the swamps?

1094
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: I know about it, Luso, but like he does this,

1095
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: like you know, that was a point where we were asking.

1096
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: There were a lot of people came together to ask

1097
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: for these larger reforms. You got it in varying degrees

1098
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 2: in some places. But what it did do in the

1099
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 2: end was fully blunt the momentum of a Trump reelection,

1100
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: which in that moment, Yeah, that that was that was

1101
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 2: a that was a that was a nice thing that

1102
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 2: we got that we had an end at least to

1103
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. Now, the co opting definitely happened. I

1104
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 2: mean we saw it all the time. All I can

1105
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: think about is Nancy Pelosi with the can take cloth

1106
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: on and the rotun and I'm like, it's over. They

1107
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 2: did it.

1108
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: That was it.

1109
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's worse than it was before.

1110
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: Right exactly. But to that point is if enough people

1111
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: clearly become incensed about a thing and come together to

1112
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: do that something, things happen, whether directly or indirectly. And

1113
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 2: I think that was one of the biggest takeaways for me,

1114
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 2: reading the sub stack was when people are able to

1115
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: act collectively, there are going to be results. It might

1116
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: not be the intended top of the list thing, but

1117
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 2: other things do come from it that end up being

1118
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 2: somewhat of a positive or at least begin to beget

1119
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, create conversations that you have like in LA,

1120
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,439
Speaker 2: where the city controller became someone who's like, my whole

1121
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: thing now is just posting police budgets on the billboards,

1122
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: so people of LA understand like where the money's going. Wow,

1123
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 2: And you just get these like sort of smaller things

1124
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: and more people become a little bit aware. And I

1125
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 2: think that's the thing that we sort of have to

1126
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 2: sort of emphasize for ourselves is to know that a

1127
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 2: the time will come where we will need to sort

1128
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 2: of figure out a way that how we're going to

1129
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: contribute to make something better and that it is possible,

1130
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: and you can do it in a way that is

1131
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: specific to whatever your level or ability is of whether

1132
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: if you're your ability you're like whether it's physical abilities

1133
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: or just whatever your your comfort level is with being

1134
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: in physical space or putting yourself in a situation where

1135
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: you might have to be confronted by law enforcement, et cetera.

1136
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: But there are many ways to do this, so it

1137
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 2: doesn't have to feel like, well, it's either I'm putting

1138
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: on a uniform and I'm out there in the streets

1139
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 2: doing my thing cracking heads. No, no, that there is

1140
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 2: a There are many other ways, And I think it's

1141
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: important that we get together identify within our own communities

1142
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 2: or like we all need to talk about this, like

1143
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: if I need medication, do you like, like what how

1144
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: far out can you get? How far can you drive?

1145
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: Do you have a generator? Do you have these kinds

1146
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: of skills? Who does Oh are they down to? Do

1147
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: they think? Like us? Okay? Cool? Now we have fit

1148
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: teen people then and among us we have an engineer,

1149
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: we have someone who has a medical background, we have

1150
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: someone with the skills for horticle whatever. It is that

1151
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 2: you begin to understand that they're like, collectively, we can

1152
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 2: actually do a lot of things that will keep us

1153
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,439
Speaker 2: safe while also keeping an eye on the larger goal,

1154
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: which is to, you know, again, try and blunt the

1155
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,919
Speaker 2: momentum of fascism in the country. So I think that's

1156
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 2: the one thing I hope a lot of people are

1157
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: able to sort of get in touch with It's it's

1158
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: as easy as you need it to be. But the

1159
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: hard bit is just to take that first step, and

1160
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: you can take it as comfortably as you want, but

1161
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: make sure you are focusing on how you either you're

1162
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: going to keep yourself safe, your friends safe, whatever, and

1163
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: then from there so many other things can branch off

1164
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to look like, you know, whatever

1165
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 2: the scary thing is in your mind that might be

1166
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: putting you off from wanting to take action, because it's

1167
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: it's very easy and you'll find many other like minded

1168
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: people out there.

1169
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Margaret Killjoy, thank you so much for coming on.

1170
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 1: It's you know, it gives me hope that someone who

1171
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: has a much deeper knowledge of the history of these

1172
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: sorts of movements. Is optimistic feels like the wrong word

1173
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: because it's not like we're optimistic that this thing is

1174
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: going to take care of itself. Not the way I

1175
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: was optimistic based on the Seltzer poll, where I was like,

1176
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna be good, but that we can come together

1177
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: to strategically do things to help one another. So I

1178
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming on. Where can people find more

1179
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: about you? Follow you all that good stuff?

1180
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can follow me on Blue Sky at Margaret

1181
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 3: whatever the thing that comes after your name on yea

1182
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 3: and which is newish to me. But and then you

1183
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 3: can follow me on Instagram market kill Jo. You can

1184
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 3: follow me on substack. Half my posts are free, though

1185
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,959
Speaker 3: always like more important posts are always going to be free,

1186
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 3: so you can subscribe for free. And then if you

1187
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 3: want to know more about like my personal life as

1188
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 3: a weird person who lives in the woods and used

1189
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: to ride trains or whatever, you can pay for the

1190
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 3: premium version where you can read my journals and things.

1191
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 3: And I have a podcast. I have a podcast on

1192
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 3: this very network on iHeartRadio, and it is called Cool

1193
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 3: People Who Did Cool Stuff. It's part of Cool Zone Media.

1194
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 3: And if you want to know more about individual and

1195
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 3: community preparedness, then I also have a podcast that's not

1196
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 3: on this very network, and it is called Live Like

1197
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 3: the World Is Dying. And I have a bunch of

1198
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,439
Speaker 3: co hosts on that and every week on Friday, we

1199
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 3: talk about how to get prepared as both individuals and

1200
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 3: communities to get ready for things that are happening.

1201
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: Awesome. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?

1202
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 2: Oh?

1203
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 3: No, this was in the prompt and then but I

1204
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 3: have this thing where I forgot to write it down

1205
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 3: and then my brain turns blank every single time. Okay,

1206
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 3: I just read this book called The Deluge and I

1207
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 3: don't have the author's name in front of me, and

1208
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,479
Speaker 3: it's a climate change book and is.

1209
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: It and what is it?

1210
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: Stephen Markley.

1211
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I listened to it on audiobook, so I wasn't

1212
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 3: like picking it up every single time and seeing the cover.

1213
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 3: And then Kim Stanley Robinson has a book called The

1214
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 3: Ministry for the Future, and together these are two of

1215
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 3: the most in depth analyzes of possible futures as relates

1216
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 3: to climate change and the fight for it that I

1217
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 3: have ever read, and so I guess I would recommend those,

1218
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 3: not as like neither one is like the plan that

1219
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 3: I'm signing off on, especially The Deluge, which is not

1220
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 3: very optimistic. Well, actually it kind of is actually anyway,

1221
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 3: I don't want to spoil anything, but.

1222
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's basically a novelization of water world, is

1223
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: that it's not the furthest thing from that. Yeah, we

1224
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: did a whole episode just me giving a book report

1225
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: on The Ministry for the Future.

1226
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 3: Oh amazing. I actually need to go back and listen

1227
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 3: to that.

1228
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: Then it's a lot of fun. Great, that's a great recommendation. Miles.

1229
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: Where can people find you as their work media you've

1230
01:02:59,720 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: been in?

1231
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, find me on all the social media's, but check

1232
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 2: me out on Blue Sky, Miles of Gray, Besky dot

1233
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 2: social you know where I'm just chatting shit and talking

1234
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 2: to all you guys. So thank you for reaching out.

1235
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 2: Find me on or actually find Jack and I actually

1236
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 2: on the basketball podcast Miles and Jack Got Mad Maths

1237
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 2: where we talk about the NBA.

1238
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: And then my other hobby, which is watching reality TV.

1239
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 2: I do that talking on four to twenty Day Fiance.

1240
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 2: The piece of media that I like is actually also

1241
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: the song we're gonna go out on. But the reason

1242
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: it's the piece of media I like is because there

1243
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 2: is a video version of this track that I think

1244
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: is cool to watch, and it's nice to watch people

1245
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: make music and just be kind of feeling it while

1246
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 2: they do it. So I'm just gonna do two birds

1247
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 2: in one stone. It's it's the artist djon d I

1248
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 2: j O and and he like who does a lot

1249
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 2: of work with the artist McGee, who's really popular right now.

1250
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 2: Mk dot ge you might have seen that name floating

1251
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 2: around lot. This guy Mike Gordon, who's like a really

1252
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 2: good producer guitar player. The track is called Big Mics,

1253
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 2: but it's the live version, and it's really cool because

1254
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 2: it's just like one take in this like dining room

1255
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 2: and everybody's just it's such a dope track. It reminds

1256
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 2: me of like almost like di'angelo voodoo esque kind of

1257
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: like feeling, because it's really soulful and simple and builds

1258
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: in this way that is really nice. So this is

1259
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: also the song we're going out on, but it's dijon

1260
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 2: Big Mics, but the live version, which you should watch

1261
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: on YouTube, and that will be in.

1262
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: The footnotes footnotes. Yeah, we'll link after that in the

1263
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: foot notes. It's very good. I've not seen Miles quite

1264
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: this smitten by a work of media in a long time.

1265
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 2: He's nice to watch jam.

1266
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: We entered the Monday morning recording and this recording. He

1267
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 1: was listening to this song and it's great. Yeah, you

1268
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: can find me on Blue Sky at jack ob One,

1269
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: who can find us on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. Oh work,

1270
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying. We've got a lot of recommendations for

1271
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: English Teacher on FX finally watched it really really enjoyable

1272
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: eight episode sitcom series. Blow right through it real quick

1273
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,439
Speaker 1: and it's it's a lot of fun. So shout out

1274
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: to all the guests who recommended it as their working

1275
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 1: media that is now also a work media. I would

1276
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: recommend you check out. You can find us on Twitter

1277
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: at daily Zeitgeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram.

1278
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: We have a Facebook fan page and a website Daily

1279
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: zeikeist dot com where we post our episodes and our

1280
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: footnotes to the information that we talked about in today's episode,

1281
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: as well as the song that Miles just recommended. Yeah,

1282
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: so you can that's Big Mike's Live or watch it.

1283
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: The Daily Zeikeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

1284
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or

1285
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going

1286
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: to do it for us this morning. We are back

1287
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we

1288
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: will talk Sheldon, Bye bye. M