1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of Coast to Coast podcast. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Become a Coast Insider to hear the rest of this 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: fascinating conversation and check out recent shows where we learned 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: about worrisome cases of wrongful convictions and unsettling rise in 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: cancer found in household pets, and mysterious radio births coming 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: from deep in space. Head on over to Coast to 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Coast a m dot com and sign up for Coast 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: Insider to start listening. Now, here's a highlight from Coast 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: to Coast AM on iHeart Radio. Welcome back to Coast 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: to Coast our guest for the next couple hours. Steve 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: Ostculness is a research scientist, consultant, author of several books 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: on virtual and augmented reality. Now we spent more than 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: two decades working on the application of headmonded displays and 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: other advanced human computer interfaces and areas like engineering, education, defense, 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: and entertainment. And here he is. He's the author of 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: Practical Augmented Reality. That title alone tells me a lot. Steven, 17 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the shows your you're really looking forward to 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: this conversation. I've been looking at virtual reality all day 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: to day on the Internet. It's amazing where it has 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: come in fifteen years. It really has the there's been 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: so many major advances and the component technologies that are 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: enabling just some phenomenal applications right now, and I'm sure 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: we'll get through a number of these as this conversation 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: goes on. I'm betting a producer, Tom that you're either 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: Greek or Lithuanian. Lithuanian. I knew it new. I had 26 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: a buddy at the University of Detroit whose last name 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: ended with N I S and he was Lithuanian. That's 28 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: how we knew. How about that I was actually there 29 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: in over the New Year and saw some phenomenal virtual 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: reality stuff well in the country there. So explain what 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: virtual reality and augmented reality is and what's the difference 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: between the two. So virtual and augmented reality, these are 33 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: often parts of the scene conversation, though there's significant differences 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: between the two technologies. The first, virtual reality is a 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: completely computer generated replacement to one's true visual and audio surroundings. Now, 36 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: the way that this experience is delivered to the user 37 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: is through what's called a head mounted display. So in 38 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: front of each eye, you have a small flat panel 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: display screen and special optics that spread the imagery to 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: cover most of your vertical and horizontal fields of view. 41 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 1: There's sensors in the display or elsewhere in the room 42 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: that track the position and orientation of your head, so 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: the computer knows where you're looking and it in turn 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: can draw the correct image. Is images, while what the 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: user experiences is the visual sensation of being immersed into 46 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: a computer generated environment that you can freely explore, as 47 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: opposed to being on the outside looking in, such as 48 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: on a standard desktop computer monitor. So a really great 49 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: example to illustrate this is an architectural walkthrough. You're able 50 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: to physically walk through the interior of a building design 51 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: months before the construction process even begins. Now this is 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: already being done at architectural firms around the world, and 53 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: it's like you're there, isn't it. It really is the 54 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: sensation of presence if these syste if it's set up 55 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: correctly and so on, is very compelling. So that's virtual reality. 56 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Augmented reality is very different. Here. You also wear a 57 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: head mounted viewing device, but these are generally referred to 58 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: as optical see through displays, so they're typically much smaller 59 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: in size. They allow you to see your real world surroundings, 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: but with text, symbols or graphical information inserted into that view, 61 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: which ideally holds some real time relationship with what you're 62 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: looking at. And so as an example for this, imagine 63 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: your general aviation pilot. You walk out to your Assessina 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: aircraft and you put on one of the displays, and 65 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: you see a highway in the sky that represents your 66 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: intended flight path, or small icons representing the true position 67 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: of other aircraft around you, or even semi transparent columns 68 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: that you see in a distance that go from maybe 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: ground level up to fifty feet that represent restricted airspace. 70 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: So this is augmented reality or what in some implementations 71 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: is referred to as mixed reality. What application is being 72 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: used mostly in video gaming? Is it virtual reality? It 73 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: is the virtual reality at the present time, and there 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: are literally hundreds of companies around the world that are 75 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: designing fully immersive single person and multiperson gaming applications where 76 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: you put on the headmounted display and the action has 77 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: taken place all the way around you, you know, shoot 78 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: them up games all the way through, games of skilled 79 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: driving simulators and so on. But at the present time. 80 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: Most of this is taking place using the fully immersive 81 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: virtual reality systems. There must be big money in this Stephen, 82 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: because Apple is jumping in against Microsoft and Google to 83 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: be leaders in in the reality the augmented reality especially. 84 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: Are they going to make a lot of money doing this? 85 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: They will, It's but it needs to be understood that 86 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: we're still in the crawling stage of these of the 87 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: application of these technologies in these areas. The displays need 88 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: to become more refined and smaller in size of the 89 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: actual state of the art or the the best practices 90 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: for designing these environments so that the perceptual effects are correct. 91 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: You know what is most engaging with the people and 92 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: all that. All the game designers are currently I don't 93 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: want to say struggling with this, but they're trying to 94 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: identify what exactly is it that you can draw people 95 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: in time after time after time. To come back to 96 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: the games. If somebody is blind, will they ever get 97 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: the technology where with electrodes hooked up to their brain 98 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: they would virtually be able to see. That is the hope, 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: And there's actually a lot of work being done in 100 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: this area where there are implants that are put in 101 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: and depending upon what the visual condition is. But they're 102 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: already to the point where they can allow somebody to 103 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: perceive several individual points of light. This is as far 104 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: as they've gotten so far, but it'll get to think 105 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: a few decades down the line, they're probably able to 106 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: um go far beyond that. Now, is VR at a 107 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: sophisticated point now where the person who's worrying the headsets 108 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: and the eye pieces could let's say, carry on a 109 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: discussion with a virtual reality in age of a person 110 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: and that image would talk back to that person absolutely. 111 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: And you know smart agents, um, you know the incorporation 112 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: of AI into this. You know, for instance, there's uh, 113 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: there's applications right now where you put on the head 114 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: amount of display, you're in this little cartoon world and 115 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: a little um computer generated puppy will run up to 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: you and you can start to play games with it 117 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: and pat it and bring it back to you. Now, 118 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: will the images look like cartoons or will they look lifelike? 119 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: M It in part depends upon how it's designed. Some 120 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: people are some of the game designers want things to 121 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: appear cartoonist, and then there are others that are trying 122 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: to rapidly approach photo realism as quickly as they can. 123 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: But the challenge with this is that the more realistic 124 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: you make the the the models that people are going 125 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: to be moving around in, the more computationally intensive it is. 126 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: And so as the computing power graphics horsepower step by 127 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: step increases, the clearly the visual fidelity and realism of 128 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: these simulations will dramatically increase as well. We've got some 129 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: graphics that Steve has sent us that are up at 130 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast a m dot com. So if you 131 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: get a moment, go up there and take a look 132 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: at this. Initially, when VR was started, Steve and I 133 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: remember this was years and years and years ago, it 134 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: was primarily for gaming only, and then it attests intensified. 135 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: It's changed. How much is it being used now for 136 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: military or defense applications. There's extensive use of it within 137 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: the defense department and other organizations that will support the warfighter. 138 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: And we fuld like we can get into some of these. 139 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: Give us some ideas, sure, so let me tell you 140 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: about three of them that are pretty intriguing. So most 141 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: of the listeners are probably already familiar with helmet mounted 142 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: displays that are used by fighter jet and helicopter pilots 143 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,119 Speaker 1: where they see the normal cockpit, avionics and weapons information 144 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: that's visible on the inside of the visors or on 145 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: special optical elements in front of their eyes. But the 146 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: applications go much further. For instance, there's several branches of 147 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: the Armed Services that are using a skydiving simulator known 148 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: as parasim. Now in the system, the user puts on 149 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: a harness and a head mounted display and you're winched 150 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: into a rack. When the simulation begins, the user sees 151 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: a high quality, computer generated version of what they would 152 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: actually be seen during a jump. They can control their 153 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: the virtual parachute they're using with toggles that they're holding 154 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: in their hands. You can vary the weather conditions or 155 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: the terrain models, as well as the type of canopy 156 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: that you're jumping under. And since these are physics based simulations, 157 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: the quality of the visuals, the response of the canopy 158 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: as you're pulling on the toggles this way in that way. 159 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: It's very realistic, and these systems can be used for 160 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: single users to refine particular skills such as clearing a 161 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: canopy malfunction, as well as groups of soldiers all of 162 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: whom can see each other in the same simulation who 163 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: need to practice a specific mission. I could even hold 164 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: hands like they were all jumping right, potentially um getting 165 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: more down to earth. The second application is referred to 166 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: as the Dismounted Soldier Training System. Now, this is used 167 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: by the U. S Army and multiple places around the world, 168 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: and what is designed to do is refine squad in 169 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: team tactics and such activities as room clearing and building 170 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: clearing operations. How do you move on nine man rifle 171 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: squad around different types of obstacles and so and then 172 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: all of this can take place as opposed to ticking 173 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: up a big piece of a base where you're having 174 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: every but he run around multiple square miles. If you've 175 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 1: got set of space and access to electricity, you can 176 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: wire up nine individuals that are all in the same simulation. 177 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: They each see each other in the same simulation, and 178 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: they can maneuver through these different tasks, and then you 179 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: can go back afterwards and analyze what they've done right, 180 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: what they've done wrong. They may have done that when 181 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: they got Osama bin laden. They may have trained with 182 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: something like that. There is a very good chance that 183 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: tools like this were used for that operation and a 184 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: lot of other ones. Listen to more Coast to Coast 185 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: a m every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and 186 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more