WEBVTT - What Was the Deal With the Hatfields and McCoys? 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.400 Chuck, let's go over the Stuff You Should Know concert calendar. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.840 My friend, we are hitting the road for the Spring 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.200 Has Sprung Tour. We're gonna be at the Neptune Theater 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.399 and Lovely Seattle, Washington on April eighth, my friend, the 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.520 next day, we're gonna head south to Portland, Oregon, Revolution 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.599 Hall April night, We're going to Houston, Texas, my friend, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:26.040 Warehouse Live on Memorial Day weekend, and finally finishing up Denver, 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.360 Colorado at the Gothic Theater on May twenty night. Two 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.280 more dates coming. Yeah, keep your ears out and in 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.120 the meantime, if you want to get tickets, you can 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.200 go to s y s K live dot com powered 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.960 by squares space and we'll see you guys on the road. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.080 See how in Portland you're selling out fast, Get on it. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.800 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:55.760 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast on Josh Clark, 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.480 Charles W Chuck. Brian is staring at me right now. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.440 It's making me a town uncomfortable. Jerry's over there. I 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.680 can feel her eyes burning into the side of my head. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.120 So was the Stuff you Should Know? Who would you 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.960 like me to look, but uh in my ear. Oh 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.000 that's always so weird. Try someone's like, looking, are you 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.960 doing it right now? Like right at your hair? Really? Yeah? Interesting? 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.119 Try my other ear. Oh yeah, that's that's the stuff 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.200 the right. Sorry that your left. That's my left, all right? 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.720 I remember that. Look watch this, Chuck, after seven years, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.840 can you see that I can wiggle ears independently? Try 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.160 to give me crazy? So you said, around and do it? 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:41.400 Probably try not like a good husband, um, chuck. Yes, 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.280 we have a bit of an announcement here. Yeah, what 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.400 we just heard? Yes, yeah, we're in the room with 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.920 either a hat Field or McCoy. Jerry doesn't know which 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.360 family she's related to. She just knows that she's related 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.680 to one of them. Yeah, like literally, right before we 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.600 press records, she's like, oh, by the way, I'm related 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.920 to one of these families. I'm just not sure which. 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.800 And a family member told her, but she cousin Tyler 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.200 was that? Who was? I don't know. I think that's 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.440 what she said, cousin. I get the impression from Jerry's 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.320 story though, that she's sort of like glazed over and 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.160 that's why she doesn't know. But she does carry a 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.120 six shooter on her hip and that explains that this 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.920 is McCoy on the barrel. So maybe right, But does 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:26.959 that mean that it's a bullet from the McCoys or 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.079 for the McCoy's good monistry remains, you know, good point. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.320 So we are talking about the hat Fields in the McCoy's. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.720 For those of you who don't live in the United States, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.400 you probably have heard of the hat Fields in the McCoy's. 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.160 It's a pretty legendary feud. Yeah, right, we've heard of 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.840 some of your history UK Australia, Matthew Flinders, there's a 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.440 name drop for you. Yeah, so hopefully you've heard of 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.280 the hat Fields in the McCoy's. Yeah, I mean there was, 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.000 if nothing else, there was a big mini series a 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.280 few years ago on television, Yeah, with Kevin Costner and 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:04.919 Bill Paxton, and really it was really dramatized. Yeah, like 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:10.600 it isn't fictionalized. Yea cinematized and yeah, a little not 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.720 quite fully accurate, but at least at least they brought 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.760 attention to the feud because it needs agreed. So, the 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:24.120 hat Fields in McCoy's um is a family feud, so 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.040 much so that in nine the hat Fields and the 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.880 McCoy's were on the TV show Family Feud, apparently for 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.920 a full week from what I saw, and I read that. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.920 Legend has it that it didn't actually inspired the TV show, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.520 but I didn't get good verification on that. Now and 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:45.440 there there have been other family feuds, right, but none 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.000 are as famous as the hat Fields in the McCoys, 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.600 although at the time there were more famous family feuds, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.320 but the hat Fields in McCoys just took it to 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:58.080 another level because all of the murder. Yeah, there there 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.400 was a lot of murder. It was mountain foe versus 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:05.320 mountain folks, families that had been intermarried and worked for 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.400 one another, and um had lived together for decades, if 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:15.320 not longer, alongside in this little area along the Sandy River, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.800 I believe, the Big Sandy River, in something that's called 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.600 the Tug River Valley, and on one side mostly the 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.200 hat Fields lived on the West Virginia side in Logan County, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.719 and right across the river on the other side in Kentucky, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.320 the McCoy's lived in Pike County. And that's how it 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:38.960 was for days gone by. Yeah, and they they were 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.720 not new to the United States, so I guess it 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.520 wasn't the United States then, was it? Yeah, we were 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.200 talking about the fifties seventies. I was way off then. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.720 But they came to America many many years before that. Um. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.520 Apparently the hat Fields were some of the very first 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.920 to come to uh the New World. Uh from northern England, 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.560 and the McCoy's are obviously from Germany. Well the hat 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.520 Fields were originally the heath Fields in England. That sounds 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:09.720 way more British. Yeah, but you know how you do. 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.400 You come over to America and you you dumb it 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.720 down a little. I know Heath Ledger changed his name 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.880 to hat Ledger when he got here, didn't they all? Right? 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.920 P uh? And the McCoy has come from Scotland, of 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.440 course you can probably figure that out. Moved to Ireland 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.960 before they came to the New World. And the first 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.880 known McCoy was John McCoy in America. When was that, uh, 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.560 seventeen thirty two from Belfast, Ireland. So did they move 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.720 directly to the Tug River area? Is that where they settled? Now? 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.760 The McCoy's first settled in Maryland, where he was a 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.760 prominent landowner, and I think the Hatfield's first moved to 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:53.000 Tug Valley in eighteen twenty and the McCoy's uh in 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:57.679 eighteen o two with their twelve kids. So they've been like, really, 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.320 these families had grown up living in and working with 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.240 each other. It was not just these two families in 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.680 the area. There are plenty of other families. But like 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:12.000 they were neighbors, co workers, Boston employee, they were, they 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.640 were husbands and wives, they intermarried, you know, I mean 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.840 like they were they were living together for decades. I 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.800 think the two um that originally settled at Tug Fork 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:28.480 were the actual parents of the two main protagonists or antagonists. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.960 I guess they were both. Yeah, they were both pro 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:36.400 and and so they the the story. Our story really 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.040 kind of begins round about the Civil War. UM this 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.920 area of the Tug River Valley was mostly Confederate, and 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.640 both the Hatfield and the McCoy's were Confederate sympathizers, if 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:53.800 not outright Confederate soldiers. UM the antagonist or protagonists the 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.040 patriarch of the Hatfield family when the story begins, his 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.600 name was devil Ants Hatfield, right, Yeah, that was his nickname. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.599 His real name was William Anderson Hatfield. But devil as 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.599 what a cool name. Yeah, and I saw a couple 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.000 of different explanations for where his nickname came from. But 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.240 my favorite one was that his mother said he was 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.080 so mean, the devil himself was scared of him. Yeah. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.960 I saw one that said he was six ft of 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.000 devil in a hundred and eighty pounds of hell. They 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.280 had stupid sayings back then. Yeah, that was. It didn't 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.760 quite that up, especially in the backwoods of Kentucky and 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.160 West Virginia. You know, they just said stuff. They just 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:33.800 made up names as as we'll see throughout this whole episode. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.840 But um, devil ants himself was a he was from 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.320 what I saw. He was described as somebody who took 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.440 life by the horns, right. He was very much a 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.440 self made man. Um. He got he became a pretty 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.600 wealthy timber merchant over the years. But he was, um, 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.520 he was a violent man. Uh. And he was a well, 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.560 he had some violent tendencies for sure. Yeah. And um, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:01.960 you know, if you want to trace back the reason 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:06.680 for the Hatfield McCoy feud, there isn't I think from 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.400 everything I read, there isn't like one single thing. It's 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.080 often blamed on the pig deal, which we'll hear about 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.480 coming up. That seems to be the one that historians 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.720 point to the most these days, though. Yeah, but it's 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.120 sort of a convenient way of telling the story, because like, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.440 what what better way to kick off a feud than 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.040 like with the stolen pig? Right it. Definitely there were 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.840 other problems or issues between these families before then, right yeah. 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.400 But the point is there are a lot of different 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.440 things going on, and one of them was, like you said, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.000 was um devil Ants made a lot more money than 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.679 McCoy as as a timber guy. So on the other 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.440 side of the river, in the Kentucky side Pike County, Kentucky, 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.320 there were the McCoy's, and at the time that devil 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.719 Ants was the patriarch of the Hatfield clan, a man 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.760 named Randall McCoy Old Randal Uh was the head of 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.680 the McCoy clan across the river in Kentucky, Right Yeah. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.240 I just get the sense that he had his sort 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.960 of smaller business and was always a little bit envious 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.040 of the larger timber business across very much. So he 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.280 was um the way that I saw him described was 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.040 um if devil Ants as a man who took life 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.160 by the horns. Old Randal was somebody who got hooked 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.520 by life's horns, and he was very bitter about his 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.440 lot in life. His father, Um I saw, was described 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.600 as didn't much care for work. Um didn't leave, didn't 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.520 leave his kids anything. So his son had to be 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.679 a self made man. But he was a self made 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.240 man who never really made himself. He married a woman 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:45.199 named Sarah, and Sarah's father died and left them some land, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.679 and he was able to homestead on that. So that's 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.280 how he was able to establish himself was through his 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.800 wife's inheritance of her father's land. Um, but it was 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.720 enough to set him up. They were fine. They weren't prosperous, 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:02.000 but they weren't like just pletely poverty stricken like Randall 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.120 had grown up. But just across the river and and 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.800 this other family that he had to deal with and 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.679 work with, um and and just kind of see and 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:15.040 interact with, was a man who he you know, had 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.280 made himself. And and definitely Randall was bitter about that 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.920 idea and the comparison between himself and Devil Lance. Yeah, 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.080 and I think um some of the McCoy's even worked 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.480 for some of the hat Fields, which is always gonna 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.079 be a little tense when you feel like maybe that 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.800 feeling of superiority comes over one family because you're working 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.920 for me, you know. Yeah, So there's definitely like you're saying, tention, right, 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.400 and and you can point to maybe these guys coming 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.480 into their own as the heads of the family when 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.120 the tension really started. For many years, historians pointed to 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:53.360 a specific incident as the source of the family feud um, 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.160 but that's since been abandoned. So, like we said, the 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.200 Civil War is about the time when this story really 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.079 starts and earn and most of the Tug River Valley 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.640 was Confederate. Devil Lance and possibly Randall McCoy were part 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.880 of what we're called the Logan Wildcats, which was a militia, 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.800 but during the Civil War they were an actual like 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.760 army unit of the Confederate Army. Yeah, and that's all 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.080 where Devil Rance was even the leader in one place. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.959 But I didn't get that verified a bunch either, So 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.920 so very least was in the brigade right, And I 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:27.920 got the impression that if he wasn't a leader, he 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.079 was a de facto leader because that was just this 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.760 type of personality Devil Lance. Don't answer to nobody, right, 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.079 you answer to him. That's right. That was a great 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.880 devil dance, by the way. So I think the leader 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.360 of the Logan Wildcats is another character who will come 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.000 up later. And his name is Um Jim Vance, So 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.920 Jim Vance. Um. He was not a very great guy 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.240 from what I can understand. But I'll let him paint 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.000 his own picture, Okay, I was he coming in? He 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.599 will in a little bit. Instead, we're gonna focus on 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.319 a guy named Asa Harmon McCoy. And this guy I 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.920 don't have a beat on. He decided in in just 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.200 complete contrast of the place where he grew up. Um, 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.120 he was going to join the Yankee Union Army. Yeah, 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.800 and he did, Yeah, but he broke his leg and 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:22.040 h left the service after I think a year. While 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.079 he was in service, his um commanding officer in the 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.360 Union Army ordered him to fight devil ants because there 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.040 was rumors that he was a Confederate spy. So Harmon 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.120 fights devil ants, loses the fight. And I didn't get 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:37.840 a sense on what kind of fight it was, whether 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.600 it was like a gun battle or whether he literally 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.680 just like spit on his boot and like took a swing. 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.480 I'm not sure. I don't know that if if that 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.880 was even in the mini series. Um So they getting 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:54.040 a fight, he loses, and then uh, then the Union 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.000 troops went after devil Ants at that point, which is 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.400 really what cost a lot of the early issues. Uh. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.680 And then later on Harmon shot a friend of Devil 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.760 Rance while stealing his horse, so in turn he killed 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.400 Harmon's commanding officer in the Union Army. Okay, there's a 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.280 lot of bad blood. The guy was like literally General 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.360 Bill France was peeing off his porch like I do, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.920 and Devils shot him in cold blood. I hope, I 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.440 hope that does not happen to you. That really hopes 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:26.679 it would be a bad way to go. Gives you pause, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:31.000 you know. So, um the after the war, after um 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:36.040 Asa Harmon McCoy uh came back home. I did not 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.160 realize the tensions were already that high. I had the 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.000 impression that was just because he fought for the Union. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.040 I didn't know he had been made to directly target 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.839 Devil Lance right well, Devil Rants and the Logan Wildcats 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.240 basically sent as a message saying watch yourself, because we're 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.199 coming for you. And he very wisely went off and 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.480 lived in a cave for a while. He hit out, 0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:59.599 And so with this guy, you're like, why did he 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.839 go far for the Union? Was he an abolitionist? No, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.120 he had a slave, and the slave kept him alive 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:06.880 by bringing him food and stuff while he was in 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.800 the cave. So I have no idea why he went 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.520 and fought for the Union. It's the fact that he did, though, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.400 meant that his own relatives, his own McCoy is, including Randall, 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.360 his brother. Um, really, we're just kind of like, Yeah, 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.560 the Logan Wildcats are out to get you, and you 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.080 brought the sign yourself, so we don't really feel for you. 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.680 And they didn't apparently make much of a problem or 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.520 much they didn't take issue with it. When the Logan 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.080 Wildcats attract him down to the cave and killed him. Well, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.600 he was actually coming home when they killed him, wasn't 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.240 I think he finally thought like, surely, after all this time, 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:47.960 they've forgotten about this trogolobe bite trocolodyte. Yeah, so he 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:49.800 was walking home to see his family that he hadn't 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.160 seen in years and Jim Vance shot him. That's how 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.560 long he was in the cave. Well, that might have 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:59.240 been part of the war a few years. Man alive 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.640 so well, actually Man debt Asa Harmon, Uh McCoy is 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.160 killed by the Logan Wildcats, and apparently at first everybody 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.320 thought it was Devil Answer did it, but he turned 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:10.960 out to have been bedridden at the time, so we 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.480 had an alibi, and they think instead that it was 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.880 Jim Vance who led it and probably killed Asa doing 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:21.720 his Devil's uncle okay um and strong ally Jim Vance 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.480 was so uh Asa Harmon is dead. The first shot 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.680 has been fired in the family feud, so thought the 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.000 historians for years, and then I guess after interviewing actual 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.520 hat Fields and McCoy's, they realized that no, actually the 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.520 McCoy's were like, he brought it on himself. That's that's 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.440 we made peace with this. And no charges were even 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.560 brought in the murder of Asa McCoy. Yeah. I saw 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.080 one article that described it as a murder agreement, which 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.360 apparently used to have that like blood in, blood out, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.360 and everyone's like, all right, even Stephen okay, so done 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.480 and the the first death has occurred in the hat 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.520 Field McCoy feud, but it had has nothing to do 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.040 with the hat Field McCoy feud. Technically, yes, that seems 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:05.720 like a pretty good time to take a break, don't 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:30.160 you agreed, sir, So Chuck, we're back and asa harm instead. 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.240 Things are whatever between the hat Fields and mccois. Nothing, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.400 nothing big has gone on, even if there were any 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.840 sort of skirmishes or little fights or run ins or 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.920 that kind of thing. I get the impression that the 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.680 families when they saw each other, there was like a 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.120 a slight percentage that the sides were going to get 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.480 in at least a fist fight, not take like pot 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.600 shots or another with their guns. I just think they 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.120 probably just didn't like each other very much from the beginning, 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.360 so it's possible those things went on. Nothing big happened though, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.640 until the pig the pig incident, and apparently it wasn't 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:08.520 just one pig, that's what it's been boiled down to, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.239 but it was several. Yeah, and it was a big 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.800 deal if you think about a pig. Stealing a pig 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.280 is not a big deal at the time. There's a 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.880 book called The Feud by Dinking Din King. Dean King 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:26.960 thinking said it's so weird, Dean King, and he said, uh, 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.920 where was their next meal going? To come from, and 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:32.879 how could they feed the children in the winter. They 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.280 were lucky enough to have one pig or razorback for 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.040 cell or trade. The proceeds were used to acquire flour, sugar, coffee, 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.600 sometimes shoes or boots for their families. It was a 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.600 mainstay for the family. So these days you hear a 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:48.240 pig or even a couple of pigs, and you think, 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.560 what's a big deal. But in the region at the time, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.000 these these pigs were very valuable, so it was a 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.000 big deal, right. I saw am and in the front 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.159 I saw a dude on well, yeah, and that was 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.200 another thing. In we're talking about backwoods Appalachian folk in 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.280 the nineteenth century, there was a lot to the idea 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.399 that you had stolen their property, which as it should be. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.359 But even that aside. I saw this historian on Um 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.680 a CBS Sunday Morning clip from a few years ago, 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.320 and he explained, like, you can feed a sizeable family 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.360 for a month with a single pig. And this guy 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.560 stole several pigs. So the guy who was accused of 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:33.000 stealing the pig was um. Who was it, Chuck Randolph 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:37.560 McCoy accused Floyd Hatfield. Okay, right, So um Old Randall 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.680 himself said, Floyd Hatfield, cousin of devil Ance, I know 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.640 that you stole those pigs, and I'm taking you to court. Well, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.919 they went to court. The problem is the local magistrate 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.639 was a hat Field. But in this guy's favor, his 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.480 name was a preacher. It was his first name, I believe, 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.920 and he was basically the what amounted to the local 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:02.800 judge in the tug River Valley. He he tried to 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.320 make it a fair trial. Is he the one that 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.600 placed it in McCoy land because the trial took place 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.800 in McCoy territory asided by a hat Field though, right, 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.240 And he made sure that the jury had six hat 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.200 Fields and six McCoy's on it. He did and nobody else, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.440 no joke, yes, Wed, But he was trying to make 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.560 it as fair as possible, right, um. And so they 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.600 had a trial where Floyd Hatfield was tried for hog theft. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.520 Have you ever had something stolen from you, like, you know, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.159 not hugely valuable, but yeah, it's It's one of the 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.840 things that irks me most. It's very irritating. There's something 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.359 about like just someone taking something that you worked to 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.040 buy that just really boils my blood. Now, imagine if 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.480 they took that thing that you worked to buy, and 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.600 they were directly taking food out of your child's mouth 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.440 at the same time. It makes you mad. I'd pull 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.680 a hat Field. The weird thing is is that the 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:03.960 McCoy's and the half is at this point are saying, 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.639 we will let the we will leave it to the courts. Right, 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.200 So they did go to court. They did try to 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.960 have a fair trial. Um, or at least the preacher did. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:19.520 Preacher Hatfield, preacher judge right. UM's confusing, and the the 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.120 jury was split except for one who was a McCoy 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.359 who sided with the hat Fields. His name was Selkirk 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:31.040 McCoy another made up name, and selkirk Um. He voted 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.560 that because of a guy named Bill Staton, who had 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.480 testified that Floyd had not stolen the pigs. Um. He said, 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.719 you know what, I'm not going to contradict Bill Staton. 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.040 I know him to be truthful or whatever. Plus I 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.520 work for Devil Anson his logging operation. So I'm gonna 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.960 vote pro hat Field and exonerate Floyd. And Floyd got 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.920 off and Old Randall went nuts. Staton was the main 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.240 witness and he was a relative of the McCoy's, but 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.920 he was married to a hat Field. So um, and 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.400 while they did intermarry, I saw that there was way 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.640 more marrying within the family to avoid intermarrying. Oh yeah, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.440 there was a lot of first cousins that were when 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.119 you watch that Family Feud clip, you can go find 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.560 it on I'm sure on YouTube, but there was a 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:20.919 mental flass article that we found that had it embedded 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.000 at the bottom. That's where I first heard about it. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.879 The that when they're introducing the families, they keep introducing 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.520 one another is like kissing cousins. This is a kissing cousin, Diane, 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.040 and like the families are saying that nine. So yeah, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.000 there was a lot of like inter marriage within the 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.200 family itself. Well, they were probably just joking, right, No, no, 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.960 on Family Feud, you don't think the guy didn't sound 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.320 like he was joking. Did he kiss his cousin on TV? No? 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.880 But Richard Dawson kissed her. That guy kissed any woman 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.960 who would stand still long enough. What a flirt? Well, 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:03.000 Richard Dawson, So yeah, alright, Pete. Yeah, he didn't change 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.480 his name even though he was British. Uh, well, you 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:12.240 don't know that that's true. Could have been Richard Dimpsum 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:17.959 or Chumley Dawson. That's a great name. So so uh, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.200 Old Randall has just lost this court case, and even worse, 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:25.879 he was made to pay the hat Fields court costs 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.680 for taking him the court. And remember we characterized Old 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.800 Randall as a kind of a bitter man. Anytime life 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.920 handed him lemons, he just squeezed him into his eyes 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.960 to anger, right um. And he went on for this 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.800 for basically years about how this is a miscarriage of justice, 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.000 how Floyd had stolen his hogs. And so now any 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.600 time hat Fields h McCoy's um, depending on their allegiance 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.520 to the clan or clans um, anytime they saw each other, 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.520 they were shooting at one another, they were getting into fights, 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.000 they were thrown in rocks. Like one of um, one 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.800 of devil Ant's sons was standing there when Old Randall 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.640 rode up once and Old Randall started railing on him 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.680 about how Floyd had stolen a hog, and the McCoys 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.720 or the Hatfield sun grabbed rock and just threw it 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.720 at Old Randall's mouth, just crushed his mouth of the rock, 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:20.960