1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Chuck, let's go over the Stuff You Should Know concert calendar. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: My friend, we are hitting the road for the Spring 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Has Sprung Tour. We're gonna be at the Neptune Theater 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: and Lovely Seattle, Washington on April eighth, my friend, the 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: next day, we're gonna head south to Portland, Oregon, Revolution 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: Hall April night, We're going to Houston, Texas, my friend, 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Warehouse Live on Memorial Day weekend, and finally finishing up Denver, 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: Colorado at the Gothic Theater on May twenty night. Two 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: more dates coming. Yeah, keep your ears out and in 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: the meantime, if you want to get tickets, you can 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: go to s y s K live dot com powered 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: by squares space and we'll see you guys on the road. 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: See how in Portland you're selling out fast, Get on it. 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast on Josh Clark, 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: Charles W Chuck. Brian is staring at me right now. 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: It's making me a town uncomfortable. Jerry's over there. I 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: can feel her eyes burning into the side of my head. 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: So was the Stuff you Should Know? Who would you 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: like me to look, but uh in my ear. Oh 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: that's always so weird. Try someone's like, looking, are you 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: doing it right now? Like right at your hair? Really? Yeah? Interesting? 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: Try my other ear. Oh yeah, that's that's the stuff 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: the right. Sorry that your left. That's my left, all right? 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: I remember that. Look watch this, Chuck, after seven years, 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: can you see that I can wiggle ears independently? Try 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: to give me crazy? So you said, around and do it? 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: Probably try not like a good husband, um, chuck. Yes, 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: we have a bit of an announcement here. Yeah, what 30 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: we just heard? Yes, yeah, we're in the room with 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: either a hat Field or McCoy. Jerry doesn't know which 32 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: family she's related to. She just knows that she's related 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: to one of them. Yeah, like literally, right before we 34 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: press records, she's like, oh, by the way, I'm related 35 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: to one of these families. I'm just not sure which. 36 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: And a family member told her, but she cousin Tyler 37 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: was that? Who was? I don't know. I think that's 38 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: what she said, cousin. I get the impression from Jerry's 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: story though, that she's sort of like glazed over and 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: that's why she doesn't know. But she does carry a 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: six shooter on her hip and that explains that this 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: is McCoy on the barrel. So maybe right, But does 43 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: that mean that it's a bullet from the McCoys or 44 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: for the McCoy's good monistry remains, you know, good point. 45 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: So we are talking about the hat Fields in the McCoy's. 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: For those of you who don't live in the United States, 47 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: you probably have heard of the hat Fields in the McCoy's. 48 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: It's a pretty legendary feud. Yeah, right, we've heard of 49 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: some of your history UK Australia, Matthew Flinders, there's a 50 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: name drop for you. Yeah, so hopefully you've heard of 51 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: the hat Fields in the McCoy's. Yeah, I mean there was, 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: if nothing else, there was a big mini series a 53 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: few years ago on television, Yeah, with Kevin Costner and 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: Bill Paxton, and really it was really dramatized. Yeah, like 55 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: it isn't fictionalized. Yea cinematized and yeah, a little not 56 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: quite fully accurate, but at least at least they brought 57 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: attention to the feud because it needs agreed. So, the 58 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: hat Fields in McCoy's um is a family feud, so 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: much so that in nine the hat Fields and the 60 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: McCoy's were on the TV show Family Feud, apparently for 61 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: a full week from what I saw, and I read that. 62 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: Legend has it that it didn't actually inspired the TV show, 63 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: but I didn't get good verification on that. Now and 64 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: there there have been other family feuds, right, but none 65 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: are as famous as the hat Fields in the McCoys, 66 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: although at the time there were more famous family feuds, 67 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: but the hat Fields in McCoys just took it to 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: another level because all of the murder. Yeah, there there 69 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: was a lot of murder. It was mountain foe versus 70 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: mountain folks, families that had been intermarried and worked for 71 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: one another, and um had lived together for decades, if 72 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: not longer, alongside in this little area along the Sandy River, 73 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: I believe, the Big Sandy River, in something that's called 74 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: the Tug River Valley, and on one side mostly the 75 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: hat Fields lived on the West Virginia side in Logan County, 76 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: and right across the river on the other side in Kentucky, 77 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: the McCoy's lived in Pike County. And that's how it 78 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: was for days gone by. Yeah, and they they were 79 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: not new to the United States, so I guess it 80 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: wasn't the United States then, was it? Yeah, we were 81 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: talking about the fifties seventies. I was way off then. 82 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: But they came to America many many years before that. Um. 83 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: Apparently the hat Fields were some of the very first 84 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: to come to uh the New World. Uh from northern England, 85 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: and the McCoy's are obviously from Germany. Well the hat 86 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: Fields were originally the heath Fields in England. That sounds 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: way more British. Yeah, but you know how you do. 88 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: You come over to America and you you dumb it 89 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: down a little. I know Heath Ledger changed his name 90 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: to hat Ledger when he got here, didn't they all? Right? 91 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: P uh? And the McCoy has come from Scotland, of 92 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: course you can probably figure that out. Moved to Ireland 93 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: before they came to the New World. And the first 94 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: known McCoy was John McCoy in America. When was that, uh, 95 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: seventeen thirty two from Belfast, Ireland. So did they move 96 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: directly to the Tug River area? Is that where they settled? Now? 97 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: The McCoy's first settled in Maryland, where he was a 98 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: prominent landowner, and I think the Hatfield's first moved to 99 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: Tug Valley in eighteen twenty and the McCoy's uh in 100 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 1: eighteen o two with their twelve kids. So they've been like, really, 101 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: these families had grown up living in and working with 102 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: each other. It was not just these two families in 103 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: the area. There are plenty of other families. But like 104 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: they were neighbors, co workers, Boston employee, they were, they 105 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: were husbands and wives, they intermarried, you know, I mean 106 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: like they were they were living together for decades. I 107 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: think the two um that originally settled at Tug Fork 108 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: were the actual parents of the two main protagonists or antagonists. 109 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: I guess they were both. Yeah, they were both pro 110 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: and and so they the the story. Our story really 111 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: kind of begins round about the Civil War. UM this 112 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: area of the Tug River Valley was mostly Confederate, and 113 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: both the Hatfield and the McCoy's were Confederate sympathizers, if 114 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: not outright Confederate soldiers. UM the antagonist or protagonists the 115 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: patriarch of the Hatfield family when the story begins, his 116 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: name was devil Ants Hatfield, right, Yeah, that was his nickname. 117 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: His real name was William Anderson Hatfield. But devil as 118 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: what a cool name. Yeah, and I saw a couple 119 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: of different explanations for where his nickname came from. But 120 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: my favorite one was that his mother said he was 121 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: so mean, the devil himself was scared of him. Yeah. 122 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: I saw one that said he was six ft of 123 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: devil in a hundred and eighty pounds of hell. They 124 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: had stupid sayings back then. Yeah, that was. It didn't 125 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: quite that up, especially in the backwoods of Kentucky and 126 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: West Virginia. You know, they just said stuff. They just 127 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: made up names as as we'll see throughout this whole episode. 128 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: But um, devil ants himself was a he was from 129 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: what I saw. He was described as somebody who took 130 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: life by the horns, right. He was very much a 131 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: self made man. Um. He got he became a pretty 132 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: wealthy timber merchant over the years. But he was, um, 133 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: he was a violent man. Uh. And he was a well, 134 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: he had some violent tendencies for sure. Yeah. And um, 135 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you want to trace back the reason 136 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: for the Hatfield McCoy feud, there isn't I think from 137 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: everything I read, there isn't like one single thing. It's 138 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: often blamed on the pig deal, which we'll hear about 139 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: coming up. That seems to be the one that historians 140 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: point to the most these days, though. Yeah, but it's 141 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: sort of a convenient way of telling the story, because like, 142 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: what what better way to kick off a feud than 143 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: like with the stolen pig? Right it. Definitely there were 144 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: other problems or issues between these families before then, right yeah. 145 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: But the point is there are a lot of different 146 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: things going on, and one of them was, like you said, 147 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: was um devil Ants made a lot more money than 148 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: McCoy as as a timber guy. So on the other 149 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: side of the river, in the Kentucky side Pike County, Kentucky, 150 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: there were the McCoy's, and at the time that devil 151 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: Ants was the patriarch of the Hatfield clan, a man 152 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: named Randall McCoy Old Randal Uh was the head of 153 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: the McCoy clan across the river in Kentucky, Right Yeah. 154 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: I just get the sense that he had his sort 155 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: of smaller business and was always a little bit envious 156 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: of the larger timber business across very much. So he 157 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: was um the way that I saw him described was 158 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: um if devil Ants as a man who took life 159 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: by the horns. Old Randal was somebody who got hooked 160 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: by life's horns, and he was very bitter about his 161 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: lot in life. His father, Um I saw, was described 162 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: as didn't much care for work. Um didn't leave, didn't 163 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: leave his kids anything. So his son had to be 164 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: a self made man. But he was a self made 165 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: man who never really made himself. He married a woman 166 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: named Sarah, and Sarah's father died and left them some land, 167 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: and he was able to homestead on that. So that's 168 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: how he was able to establish himself was through his 169 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: wife's inheritance of her father's land. Um, but it was 170 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: enough to set him up. They were fine. They weren't prosperous, 171 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: but they weren't like just pletely poverty stricken like Randall 172 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: had grown up. But just across the river and and 173 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: this other family that he had to deal with and 174 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: work with, um and and just kind of see and 175 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: interact with, was a man who he you know, had 176 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: made himself. And and definitely Randall was bitter about that 177 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: idea and the comparison between himself and Devil Lance. Yeah, 178 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: and I think um some of the McCoy's even worked 179 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: for some of the hat Fields, which is always gonna 180 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: be a little tense when you feel like maybe that 181 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: feeling of superiority comes over one family because you're working 182 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: for me, you know. Yeah, So there's definitely like you're saying, tention, right, 183 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: and and you can point to maybe these guys coming 184 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: into their own as the heads of the family when 185 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: the tension really started. For many years, historians pointed to 186 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: a specific incident as the source of the family feud um, 187 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: but that's since been abandoned. So, like we said, the 188 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: Civil War is about the time when this story really 189 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: starts and earn and most of the Tug River Valley 190 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: was Confederate. Devil Lance and possibly Randall McCoy were part 191 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: of what we're called the Logan Wildcats, which was a militia, 192 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: but during the Civil War they were an actual like 193 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: army unit of the Confederate Army. Yeah, and that's all 194 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: where Devil Rance was even the leader in one place. 195 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: But I didn't get that verified a bunch either, So 196 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: so very least was in the brigade right, And I 197 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: got the impression that if he wasn't a leader, he 198 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: was a de facto leader because that was just this 199 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: type of personality Devil Lance. Don't answer to nobody, right, 200 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: you answer to him. That's right. That was a great 201 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: devil dance, by the way. So I think the leader 202 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: of the Logan Wildcats is another character who will come 203 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: up later. And his name is Um Jim Vance, So 204 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: Jim Vance. Um. He was not a very great guy 205 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: from what I can understand. But I'll let him paint 206 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: his own picture, Okay, I was he coming in? He 207 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,599 Speaker 1: will in a little bit. Instead, we're gonna focus on 208 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: a guy named Asa Harmon McCoy. And this guy I 209 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: don't have a beat on. He decided in in just 210 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: complete contrast of the place where he grew up. Um, 211 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: he was going to join the Yankee Union Army. Yeah, 212 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: and he did, Yeah, but he broke his leg and 213 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: h left the service after I think a year. While 214 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: he was in service, his um commanding officer in the 215 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: Union Army ordered him to fight devil ants because there 216 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: was rumors that he was a Confederate spy. So Harmon 217 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: fights devil ants, loses the fight. And I didn't get 218 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: a sense on what kind of fight it was, whether 219 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: it was like a gun battle or whether he literally 220 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: just like spit on his boot and like took a swing. 221 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I don't know that if if that 222 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: was even in the mini series. Um So they getting 223 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: a fight, he loses, and then uh, then the Union 224 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: troops went after devil Ants at that point, which is 225 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: really what cost a lot of the early issues. Uh. 226 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: And then later on Harmon shot a friend of Devil 227 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: Rance while stealing his horse, so in turn he killed 228 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: Harmon's commanding officer in the Union Army. Okay, there's a 229 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: lot of bad blood. The guy was like literally General 230 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: Bill France was peeing off his porch like I do, 231 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: and Devils shot him in cold blood. I hope, I 232 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: hope that does not happen to you. That really hopes 233 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: it would be a bad way to go. Gives you pause, 234 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: you know. So, um the after the war, after um 235 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: Asa Harmon McCoy uh came back home. I did not 236 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: realize the tensions were already that high. I had the 237 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: impression that was just because he fought for the Union. 238 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know he had been made to directly target 239 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: Devil Lance right well, Devil Rants and the Logan Wildcats 240 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: basically sent as a message saying watch yourself, because we're 241 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: coming for you. And he very wisely went off and 242 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: lived in a cave for a while. He hit out, 243 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: And so with this guy, you're like, why did he 244 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: go far for the Union? Was he an abolitionist? No, 245 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: he had a slave, and the slave kept him alive 246 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: by bringing him food and stuff while he was in 247 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: the cave. So I have no idea why he went 248 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: and fought for the Union. It's the fact that he did, though, 249 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: meant that his own relatives, his own McCoy is, including Randall, 250 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: his brother. Um, really, we're just kind of like, Yeah, 251 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: the Logan Wildcats are out to get you, and you 252 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: brought the sign yourself, so we don't really feel for you. 253 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: And they didn't apparently make much of a problem or 254 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: much they didn't take issue with it. When the Logan 255 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: Wildcats attract him down to the cave and killed him. Well, 256 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: he was actually coming home when they killed him, wasn't 257 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: I think he finally thought like, surely, after all this time, 258 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: they've forgotten about this trogolobe bite trocolodyte. Yeah, so he 259 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: was walking home to see his family that he hadn't 260 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: seen in years and Jim Vance shot him. That's how 261 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: long he was in the cave. Well, that might have 262 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: been part of the war a few years. Man alive 263 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: so well, actually Man debt Asa Harmon, Uh McCoy is 264 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: killed by the Logan Wildcats, and apparently at first everybody 265 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: thought it was Devil Answer did it, but he turned 266 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: out to have been bedridden at the time, so we 267 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: had an alibi, and they think instead that it was 268 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: Jim Vance who led it and probably killed Asa doing 269 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: his Devil's uncle okay um and strong ally Jim Vance 270 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: was so uh Asa Harmon is dead. The first shot 271 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: has been fired in the family feud, so thought the 272 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: historians for years, and then I guess after interviewing actual 273 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: hat Fields and McCoy's, they realized that no, actually the 274 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: McCoy's were like, he brought it on himself. That's that's 275 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: we made peace with this. And no charges were even 276 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: brought in the murder of Asa McCoy. Yeah. I saw 277 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: one article that described it as a murder agreement, which 278 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: apparently used to have that like blood in, blood out, 279 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: and everyone's like, all right, even Stephen okay, so done 280 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: and the the first death has occurred in the hat 281 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: Field McCoy feud, but it had has nothing to do 282 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: with the hat Field McCoy feud. Technically, yes, that seems 283 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: like a pretty good time to take a break, don't 284 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: you agreed, sir, So Chuck, we're back and asa harm instead. 285 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: Things are whatever between the hat Fields and mccois. Nothing, 286 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: nothing big has gone on, even if there were any 287 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: sort of skirmishes or little fights or run ins or 288 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I get the impression that the 289 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: families when they saw each other, there was like a 290 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: a slight percentage that the sides were going to get 291 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: in at least a fist fight, not take like pot 292 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: shots or another with their guns. I just think they 293 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: probably just didn't like each other very much from the beginning, 294 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: so it's possible those things went on. Nothing big happened though, 295 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: until the pig the pig incident, and apparently it wasn't 296 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: just one pig, that's what it's been boiled down to, 297 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 1: but it was several. Yeah, and it was a big 298 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: deal if you think about a pig. Stealing a pig 299 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: is not a big deal at the time. There's a 300 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: book called The Feud by Dinking Din King. Dean King 301 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: thinking said it's so weird, Dean King, and he said, uh, 302 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: where was their next meal going? To come from, and 303 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: how could they feed the children in the winter. They 304 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: were lucky enough to have one pig or razorback for 305 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: cell or trade. The proceeds were used to acquire flour, sugar, coffee, 306 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: sometimes shoes or boots for their families. It was a 307 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: mainstay for the family. So these days you hear a 308 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: pig or even a couple of pigs, and you think, 309 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: what's a big deal. But in the region at the time, 310 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: these these pigs were very valuable, so it was a 311 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: big deal, right. I saw am and in the front 312 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: I saw a dude on well, yeah, and that was 313 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: another thing. In we're talking about backwoods Appalachian folk in 314 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, there was a lot to the idea 315 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: that you had stolen their property, which as it should be. 316 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: But even that aside. I saw this historian on Um 317 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: a CBS Sunday Morning clip from a few years ago, 318 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: and he explained, like, you can feed a sizeable family 319 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: for a month with a single pig. And this guy 320 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: stole several pigs. So the guy who was accused of 321 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: stealing the pig was um. Who was it, Chuck Randolph 322 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: McCoy accused Floyd Hatfield. Okay, right, So um Old Randall 323 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: himself said, Floyd Hatfield, cousin of devil Ance, I know 324 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: that you stole those pigs, and I'm taking you to court. Well, 325 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: they went to court. The problem is the local magistrate 326 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: was a hat Field. But in this guy's favor, his 327 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: name was a preacher. It was his first name, I believe, 328 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: and he was basically the what amounted to the local 329 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: judge in the tug River Valley. He he tried to 330 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: make it a fair trial. Is he the one that 331 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: placed it in McCoy land because the trial took place 332 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: in McCoy territory asided by a hat Field though, right, 333 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: And he made sure that the jury had six hat 334 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: Fields and six McCoy's on it. He did and nobody else, 335 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: no joke, yes, Wed, But he was trying to make 336 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: it as fair as possible, right, um. And so they 337 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: had a trial where Floyd Hatfield was tried for hog theft. 338 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever had something stolen from you, like, you know, 339 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: not hugely valuable, but yeah, it's It's one of the 340 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: things that irks me most. It's very irritating. There's something 341 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: about like just someone taking something that you worked to 342 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: buy that just really boils my blood. Now, imagine if 343 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: they took that thing that you worked to buy, and 344 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: they were directly taking food out of your child's mouth 345 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: at the same time. It makes you mad. I'd pull 346 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: a hat Field. The weird thing is is that the 347 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: McCoy's and the half is at this point are saying, 348 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: we will let the we will leave it to the courts. Right, 349 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: So they did go to court. They did try to 350 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: have a fair trial. Um, or at least the preacher did. 351 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: Preacher Hatfield, preacher judge right. UM's confusing, and the the 352 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: jury was split except for one who was a McCoy 353 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: who sided with the hat Fields. His name was Selkirk 354 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: McCoy another made up name, and selkirk Um. He voted 355 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: that because of a guy named Bill Staton, who had 356 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: testified that Floyd had not stolen the pigs. Um. He said, 357 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not going to contradict Bill Staton. 358 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: I know him to be truthful or whatever. Plus I 359 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: work for Devil Anson his logging operation. So I'm gonna 360 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: vote pro hat Field and exonerate Floyd. And Floyd got 361 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: off and Old Randall went nuts. Staton was the main 362 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: witness and he was a relative of the McCoy's, but 363 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: he was married to a hat Field. So um, and 364 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: while they did intermarry, I saw that there was way 365 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: more marrying within the family to avoid intermarrying. Oh yeah, 366 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: there was a lot of first cousins that were when 367 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: you watch that Family Feud clip, you can go find 368 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: it on I'm sure on YouTube, but there was a 369 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: mental flass article that we found that had it embedded 370 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: at the bottom. That's where I first heard about it. 371 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: The that when they're introducing the families, they keep introducing 372 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: one another is like kissing cousins. This is a kissing cousin, Diane, 373 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: and like the families are saying that nine. So yeah, 374 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: there was a lot of like inter marriage within the 375 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: family itself. Well, they were probably just joking, right, No, no, 376 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: on Family Feud, you don't think the guy didn't sound 377 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: like he was joking. Did he kiss his cousin on TV? No? 378 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: But Richard Dawson kissed her. That guy kissed any woman 379 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: who would stand still long enough. What a flirt? Well, 380 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: Richard Dawson, So yeah, alright, Pete. Yeah, he didn't change 381 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: his name even though he was British. Uh, well, you 382 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: don't know that that's true. Could have been Richard Dimpsum 383 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,959 Speaker 1: or Chumley Dawson. That's a great name. So so uh, 384 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: Old Randall has just lost this court case, and even worse, 385 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: he was made to pay the hat Fields court costs 386 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: for taking him the court. And remember we characterized Old 387 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: Randall as a kind of a bitter man. Anytime life 388 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: handed him lemons, he just squeezed him into his eyes 389 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: to anger, right um. And he went on for this 390 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: for basically years about how this is a miscarriage of justice, 391 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: how Floyd had stolen his hogs. And so now any 392 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: time hat Fields h McCoy's um, depending on their allegiance 393 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: to the clan or clans um, anytime they saw each other, 394 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: they were shooting at one another, they were getting into fights, 395 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: they were thrown in rocks. Like one of um, one 396 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: of devil Ant's sons was standing there when Old Randall 397 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: rode up once and Old Randall started railing on him 398 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: about how Floyd had stolen a hog, and the McCoys 399 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: or the Hatfield sun grabbed rock and just threw it 400 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: at Old Randall's mouth, just crushed his mouth of the rock, 401 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: because that's what you did back then yeah, that was 402 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: sort of like you killed my brother Harmon, but you 403 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: stole my hog. You know, I'm cool with the brother 404 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: killing the Harmon had it coming, right, but that hog 405 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: never hurt anybody. Yeah, we were gonna eat it. Uh 406 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: So did we cover the fact that Staton two years 407 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: later was killed. This is inaccurate? Is that not true? 408 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: Bill Staton Jr. Was Kilton, Bill Sr. Was not killed 409 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: in this skirmish. This is another big retribution though. Okay 410 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: for his pause. Yeah, because remember after the hog incident 411 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: in the hog verdict, the the half fields in McCoys 412 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: did not fight it out right then at the at 413 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: the magistrates office, at Judge Peacher's place. Um, but at 414 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: any time the clan saw one another, they would shoot 415 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: at each other. They would getting fights, they would take 416 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: rocks to the faces. And then it culminated finally in 417 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: this really truly violent incident between Bill State and Junr 418 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: and uh Paris and Sam McCoy. Right. Okay, so Bill 419 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: State and Junior is out hunting, sees these McCoy's sons 420 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: and says, well, I'm in a world of trouble. I 421 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: better take a shot at one of them, and shoots 422 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: Paris McCoy and the hip, and Sam McCoy was like, 423 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: you shot my brother, You're going down, And he shoots 424 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: Bill and wounds him and then goes over and executes 425 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: him point blank in the head. And this is Bill Junior, 426 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: Bill Junior. See, I got another article that said it 427 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: was Bill, but it also said he's Bill Stanton. So 428 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm starting to doubt all kinds of accuracy. There's a 429 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: lot of inaccurate stuff. So I got um, I think 430 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: the description to that incident from a really great book 431 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: by a guy named John ed Pierce. It's Days of 432 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: Darkness Colon, So you know it's legitimate, the feuds of 433 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: Eastern Kentucky. Yeah, so there's been like serious blood shed here. 434 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: Now one of the this and this is direct retribution 435 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: for the hog stealing verdict. A man has been executed 436 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: point blank in the head, and the two McCoy boys 437 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: just tried to get away with it. Yeah, so blood 438 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: is spilling. Uh fast forward a bit to two and 439 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: h three of Randall's sons are attacked, stabbed twenty six times, 440 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: and shot Ellison Hatfield, who was Devil's younger brother, to death, right, 441 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: And that was on election day and election days were 442 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: like drunken affairs. Do you remember when I think in 443 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: the Bars episode we talked about how like what was 444 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: it um get people drunk? Yeah, bumbo planting, the buying 445 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: the plants with bumby, the voters with bumbo. Yeah, man, 446 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: But it was election day, so everybody would get super drunk. 447 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: And when you get two claims that don't like each 448 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: other super drunk in the same place, they get in 449 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: fights and people get stabbed twenty six times and then 450 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: shot in the back. Yeah. So those three sons of 451 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: Randall were actually arrested and we're presumably going to go 452 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: to trial, but vigilanteism took hold and they were kidnapped 453 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: on the way to the trial by the hat Fields 454 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: and they said, we're gonna take care of this our way. Yeah, 455 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: and they like, I don't know if they let them 456 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: get away with it, but they got away with it. No, 457 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: they did not let them get away with it. This 458 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: was a huge turning point, right um. When the hat 459 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: Field or the McCoy boys were intercepted by the hat 460 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: Fields and taken across the river to West Virginia, which 461 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: is basically like taking them to Fortress hat Field Country, 462 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: justice was gonna happen. Yeah, but Devlance vowed that if 463 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: Ellison made it and didn't die, he would not kill 464 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: these Hatfield or these McCoy boys. Um, but Allison succumbed 465 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: to his wounds and did die. And so they took 466 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: these McCoy boys out and tied them to trees and 467 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: shot him I think more than fifty times or something 468 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: like that. And so you were saying, like they got 469 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: away with it not for lack of trying, right, It 470 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: basically set off this huge, huge issue like this was 471 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: even for the Tug River Valley. Chuck, this is pretty 472 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: flagrant frontier justice. You're not supposed to do this. There's 473 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: a magistrate named Preacher who's supposed to settle this kind 474 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: of stuff. Right, So a guy named, uh, Perry, what 475 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: was Perry's name, Perry Klein? You know what this is. 476 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: This is too big. We need to take a break, 477 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: all right and get to the story of Perry Kline. Okay, 478 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: so we're back, chucking. We have a new guest. His 479 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: name is Perry Klein. Come on in, Perry, you're an attorney. Uh. 480 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: He was married to Martha McCoy And here's the deal. Uh, 481 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: years before there was a situation where Perry Klein was 482 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: cheated out of I think five thousand acres of land. 483 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: Was he cheated? I didn't know if he if it 484 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: was actual like justice, because he had supposedly been cutting 485 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: timber from uh, Devilance's timber land. Well, here's the deal. 486 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: Everything you read will say it depends on who you 487 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: sympathize with, is how you think Perry Klein and really 488 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: all of them were viewed. So I read articles that 489 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: said that he was cheated, in articles that said he 490 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: wasn't cheated. Uh. And I think the family is still 491 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: today like while there is a piece which we'll get to. Um, 492 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: they still disagree over Perry Klin's role. Okay, So, but 493 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: Perry Klin was married to a McCoy. Actually he's a 494 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: harmon McCoy's widow, right Martha, and so, um, he had 495 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: lost five thousand acres really, that's how much he was 496 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: forced by the court to seed to Devilands for allegedly 497 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: cutting his timberland. Yeah, so he was he had a 498 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: he had a retribution in mind as an attorney. Right. 499 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: So when the hat Fields executed the McCoy, the three 500 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: McCoy boys, Um, Perry Klein used it as a chance, 501 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: depending on how you look at it, either used it 502 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: as a chance for retribution or his family allegiance was 503 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: stirred up, and he, being an attorney, had contacts with 504 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: the governor, Governor Bunker I believe, of Kentucky, and said, Governor, 505 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: there's some horrible stuff going on down here that's being 506 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: perpetrated by some West Virginians against some law abiding Kentuckians, 507 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: and you guys need to do something about it. And 508 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: it worked, actually, yeah, they reinstated the charges and Um 509 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: basically put out awards on the head, bounties on the head, 510 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: arrest bounties, that is of the hat fields, including uh 511 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: six ft of devil and pounds of hell. Himself, his sons, 512 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: some of the Um family allies, like his uncle Jim Vance. 513 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: I think there were. There was twenty twenty men who 514 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: had indictments against them. And since they had indictments against 515 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: them and they were hanging out in West Virginia, they 516 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: had bounties on their head. And one of the bounty hunters, 517 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: the main bounty hunter who came around it was it 518 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: was a problem that they had bounties on their head, 519 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: because any crackpot who wanted to could come and take 520 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: shots at those guys, and and it was happening quite 521 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: a bit. Yeah, they wanted to collect some dough, right. 522 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: But there's one guy in particular who was a real 523 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: thorn in their side. His name was Mad Frank Phillips. 524 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: And Frank Phillips was a bounty hunter extraordinaire. He was 525 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: about as legally gray as you can get and still 526 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: not be uh, just on the darker side of the spectrum. 527 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: And he made it basically his personal war to get 528 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: as many hat Fields across the river into Kentucky as 529 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: he could. So he would carry out raids on the 530 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: hat Field stronghold in West Virginia, UM and basically just 531 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: abduct hat Fields bring him to Kentucky so that they 532 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: could be put in the Pike County jail. And while 533 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: he did this, he was also executing people left and right, 534 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: like Jim Vance. He shot and wounded saw that he 535 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: just wounded him, walked around from behind and um, while 536 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: Vance was begging for his life, shot him in the 537 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: head and like this is Frank Phillips. M Oh, he 538 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: would execute you just as soon as he would capture you. Yeah, 539 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: And this was uh, this was becoming a big deal 540 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: in the press at this point, UH newspaper started carrying 541 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: the stories and became UH by all accounts like national 542 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: news uh and legend like it was everyone knew about 543 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: the hat Fields and MCA was by this point right 544 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: and the press apparently very much sided with the McCoy's. 545 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: They painted the hat Fields to seem like backwoods, murderous 546 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: rednecks who just caused trouble everywhere they went, and painted 547 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: the McCoy's is innocent, law abiding victims of of this um, 548 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: this whole feud um and the whole legend, like you're saying, 549 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: like this is all it all begins about right here, 550 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: when when there was what amounts to almost a war 551 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: between Kentucky and West Virginia because Frank Phillips kept going 552 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: and getting people and bringing them back to Pike County 553 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: and West Virginia got involved, and the two governors were 554 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: basically standing toe to toe, almost about to go invade, 555 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: sending National Guard troops in across the border. Um, but 556 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: instead they left in the courts and actually this court 557 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: case about whether it was legal or not for Frank 558 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: Phillips to have abducted the hat Fields and taken them 559 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: to the Kentucky jail. Um reached the Preme Court actually, 560 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: which is pretty amazing. It is in the Supreme Court said, 561 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: you know what, Uh, it probably is illegal what happened, 562 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: but Kentucky's a sovereign state and there's really nothing West 563 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: Virginia can do about it, so go ahead and try them. 564 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: But before the trial, actually, and while the um these 565 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: abductions were going on, these raids carried out by Frank Phillips, 566 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: the hat Fields, like I said, like it was a 567 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: big deal of them that they were bounty hunters out 568 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: to get them, and they came up with a plan 569 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: to just end the whole thing. Yea, in a murderous 570 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: killing spree is what they came up with. Uh. In January, 571 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: group of hat Fields said we're gonna attack Randolph McCoy 572 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: and his entire family, uh cap little Cappy devil ants, 573 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: his son uh and an ally to Jim Vance kind 574 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: of led the way and they ambushed them at their 575 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: home on New Year's Day. Randolph actually escaped, which is uh, 576 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: they were kind of coming after him and he's the 577 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: only one who escaped. Well, they were coming after the 578 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: whole family. Like there the whole intention was to just 579 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: murder this whole family of the problem. Yeah, and Randolph 580 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: was the key guy. He actually got away. His son, Calvin, 581 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: daughter Ala Fair were killed, uh and what they called crossfire, 582 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: but they were you know, let's get real. And his 583 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: wife Sarah was suffered to crutch skull. She was beating 584 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: so badly. Yeah, so Alice, they set the house on fire. 585 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: Alafair opened the door to put the fire out and 586 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: she was shot and killed. And then um, her mom, 587 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 1: Sarah wanted to come and like comfort or dying daughter, 588 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: and when she came out, they beat her head in 589 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: with the butt of a pistol I think cap Hatfield did. 590 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: And then um, Calvin provided cover for his dad and 591 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: ran to attract their gunfire so his dad could get away, 592 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: and it worked, but Calvin died as a result. And 593 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: then two other daughters had McCoy daughters survived, So Randall 594 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: and two daughters survived this attack on his family. And 595 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: this was when it was like if the press wasn't 596 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: paying attention before and now they really were. And um, 597 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: basically everybody was outraged at this. And it's like this legend, 598 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: Chuck is a hundred something years old right, And it's 599 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 1: easy to kind of see these people as caricatures or um, 600 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, just historic. But when you think about what 601 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: the hat Fields planned to do and tried to do 602 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: to the McCoy's in that case on New Year's nineteen eighty, 603 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: the New Year's massacres, what was known as that's like 604 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: objectively despicable no matter when you when you when it happened, 605 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: going after an entire family to kill them, Yeah, to 606 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: wipe out a legal entailment, you know, um it is 607 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: and it really kind of um brings home like the 608 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: actual humanity of all of this, you know. Yeah. So 609 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: it went all the way to the Supreme Court and 610 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: they decided, you know what, these hat Fields should be tried. Uh. 611 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: In in eighteen eighty nine, they were tried, and eight 612 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: of the hat Fields, uh and their supporters were since 613 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: the life in prison and one Ellison Mounts, who uh 614 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: people think is the son of Ellison Hatfield and his 615 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: first cousin. Yeah, it was actually sentenced to death. And uh, 616 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: the one issue here was a lot of people now 617 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: think he was a kind of a scapegoat because he 618 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: was mentally challenged and uh, maybe an early false confession 619 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: happened right exactly, and he actually, um, really his was 620 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: if he didn't do it, or even if he did, 621 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: he really got screwed over by the prosecution. They said that, um, 622 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: if he confessed and and and cooperated, that he would 623 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 1: get a lighter sentence, when really he was the only 624 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: one who confessed and he was the only one who 625 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: was hanged. So um, and his dying words I think 626 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: were the hat Fields made me do it, and then 627 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: they hung him. Yeah, And there were no public executions 628 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: at the time, but that did not stop hundreds of people, 629 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: thousands even from coming out and watching anyway. Right, so 630 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: it was a public execution and with the what's odd though, 631 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: is the uh so ten ten men had been captured 632 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: by Frank Phillips and had been a dieted and tried, 633 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: and nine of them got life in prison. Ellison Mounts 634 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: was was hung and this was apparently enough to um, 635 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: I guess, mollify Randall McCoy. At first I think he 636 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: tried to like rail against the verdict, but ultimately it 637 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: was enough to just calm him down and he went 638 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: and lived a quiet life, quiet haunted life as a 639 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: ferry operator, I think, and lived to like a yeah, 640 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: and about a year later. Uh, it was when the 641 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: families both said enough is enough, let's call a truce. 642 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: And uh. From I think it was an eleven year period, 643 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: almost twenty four people were killed in both families, like 644 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: close to two dozen folks over eleven year period. That's legit. Yeah, 645 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: that's a that's a family feud right there. That's a 646 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,919 Speaker 1: big feud. And devl Ance lived to a ripe old 647 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 1: age two. He lived to uh, I think eighty three 648 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: or something like that. That's old. Well, he was born 649 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: again at seventy three. I think he lived into his 650 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: a real and but he he was paranoid for the 651 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: rest of his life because I think there was still 652 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: bounties on his head. So he moved to an island 653 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: and carried a rifle with him at all times for 654 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: the rest of his life. Well, if you look at 655 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: pictures of the families, they all had their guns. I mean, 656 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: that's what you did back then. But it's it's funny 657 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: to see a picture of like twenty people in you know, 658 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: twelve of them are brandishing weapons. That's right, you know, 659 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: in the in the one photo that will ever be 660 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: taken of them, they've got their gun out too. Uh 661 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: So since then they've been all over the place in 662 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: pop culture. We mentioned family Feud, there was an abbot 663 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: in Costello movie. In two Buster Keaton did a movie too. 664 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: Oh really, I feel McCoy he was on not Looney Tunes, 665 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 1: excuse me, Mary Melodies, big distinction, but still bugs bunny um. Nowadays, 666 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: there are even some medical professionals who think that there 667 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: was a condition that the McCoy's had that led them 668 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: to be violent. What it's called duh von Hippel Lindau disease. 669 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: And these geneticists study dozens of McCoy descendants and said 670 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: they have a really high rate of this disease. It's inherited, 671 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: it's rare, produces tumors in the eyes, ears, and pancreas. 672 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: Uh And a notable side effect is high blood pressure, 673 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: racing heartbeat, and increased um aggressive behavior, increase fight or 674 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: flight hormones. And it was the McCoy's that may have 675 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: had that, because from everything I've read, it seemed like 676 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: the hat Fields would have been the one to have that. Wow, 677 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: maybe I'm a victim of contemporary press bias, media bias. 678 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: Anything else? I got nothing else? There's other stuff. There's 679 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: plenty of stuff that I'm sure we didn't hit. And 680 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: you should go read some of the cool books written 681 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: about this stuff. I got one more thing, actually, here 682 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: comes World War two. Life magazine used the families as 683 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: a way to unite America's war effort by featuring them 684 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: in a big photo spread. The hat Fields of McCoy's 685 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: like working together in factories for World War two. Yeah, 686 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: and they I think they even met recently in like 687 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: they're they're still out there and they're still meeting and 688 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: talking about this and uh disagreeing friendly disagreements on people 689 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: like Perry Klein and uh, he was the other guy, 690 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: Mad Mad Month, Mad Frank Phillips, Mad Frank Phillips who 691 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: remember I said he was legally gray. He married uh 692 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: a McCoy who ended up who had had a baby 693 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: with John C. Hatfield. Um, they ran off together and 694 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: got married Frank Phillips and Nancy McCoy and ended up 695 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: being prosperous bootleggers in the region. Well, and there was 696 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: also a spurned romance too that led to tentions. I 697 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: forgot about that. Yeah, Roseanna, Rosanna McCoy and John C. Hatfield. Yeah, 698 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: they had a little trist and a child together, but 699 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: the child died I think, aged eight months from measles. 700 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: But he kicked her to the curb before that and 701 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: then went and married her cousin Nancy, although there were 702 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: no curb spec and he kicked her to the river 703 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: bank to the creekside. Yeah again, we could probably keep 704 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: doing this for another forty five minutes, but we're not. 705 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about hat fills and 706 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: McCoy's ghost, searching in your favorite search engine. Since I 707 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: said search engine, it's time for a listener mail. I'm 708 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: gonna call this just a nice little email of things. 709 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm a nice person, Okay, Hi, justin Chuck and Jerry. 710 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm a young thirty something who lives in Berwin, Illinois. 711 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: I just recently started listening to podcasts and came across 712 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works and you, guys, I'm a nerd at heart. 713 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: In your podcast feeds my inner beast. I listened to 714 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: you on my way to work on a train at 715 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: uh something like Dr seuss Um at work again, and 716 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: then on my way home from work. I'm so addicted 717 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: to learning new things. Scrolling through the feed is exhilarating 718 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: because I'm dying to listen to them all. Jennifer, there's 719 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you know this. If you follow 720 00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: us on iTunes, you might think they're only three hundred, 721 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: but they were more more than right. Yeah, and that's 722 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: for all of you out there, and you can find 723 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: those at our website. Back to Jennifer, I've told all 724 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: my friends about the podcast. I even make my husband 725 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: listen while we're cooking. I can't get enough of all 726 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: the cool topics you talk about. And since I listen 727 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 1: to you every day, I thought, you know what, I'm 728 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: gonna send an email and hopes that it is read 729 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: on the air, and if not, at least you know 730 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 1: you have another dedicated listener. Thanks for spreading knowledge, and 731 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: that is Jennifer Hardy and Jennifer. Sometimes when I get 732 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: there to read things on the air, I do it. 733 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 1: It works every time and not every time. Flattery will 734 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: get you everywhere. Uh. If you want to let us 735 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,879 Speaker 1: know how great you think we are, we love hearing 736 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: that stuff. Obviously, you can tweet to us S Y 737 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: S podcast. You can post it on Facebook dot com 738 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: slash stuff. You should know. You can send us an 739 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast. The how stuff Works dot com and, 740 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: as always, join us at our home on the web, 741 00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this 742 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.