WEBVTT - Backyard Chickens & Property Loss.  Josh House talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>So it's probably worth mentioning as we launched into the

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<v Speaker 1>next interview, which I'm looking forward to a great deal

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<v Speaker 1>that James Madison, generally considered the father of Constitution, said,

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<v Speaker 1>and this was one of our freedom loving quotes of

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<v Speaker 1>the day this week, that the government exists to protect

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<v Speaker 1>our individual rights and property rights. That's the reason the

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<v Speaker 1>government exists is to protect property rights. Well, this will

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<v Speaker 1>be a bit of a contrast. Joshua House joins us.

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<v Speaker 1>Joshua is an attorney for the Institute for Justice, a libertarian,

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<v Speaker 1>nonprofit public interest law firm that litigates constitutional cases protecting

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<v Speaker 1>economic liberty, property rights, school choice, and other civil liberties.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello Joshua, how are you hey? Doing great? Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>having me on. Do I understand that you grew up

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<v Speaker 1>listening to the Armstrong and Getty Show riding in your

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<v Speaker 1>mom's car. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Um, you know, commutes

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<v Speaker 1>to school, basically starting it around. I want to say

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<v Speaker 1>the age of thirteen, when my mom started a job

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<v Speaker 1>out in Livermore. We got we started getting you guys

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<v Speaker 1>on the on the in the car. Righttastic, So we've

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<v Speaker 1>actually done some good in the world. Would you be

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<v Speaker 1>so kind as to call my parents later to so

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<v Speaker 1>I would be interested if anything our point of view

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<v Speaker 1>had any uh impact on the direction you went with

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<v Speaker 1>your schooling and your thoughts. I don't know. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's the area. I feel like there's a

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<v Speaker 1>strong libertarian streak in northern California. So I think that

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of a product of the entire environment. And

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm not sure I'm digging you know. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a different topic, but how regularly we run into people.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been listening to you since as a tiny kid

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<v Speaker 1>with five kids. The hell so listen. Uh, you guys

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<v Speaker 1>have had a couple of great victories lately. But let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about something I believe you're in the middle of,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's fighting on behalf of a Norco homeowner who

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly had violated some of the city's housing code. Tell

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<v Speaker 1>us about that case. Yeah, sure, So Norco is about

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<v Speaker 1>ten minutes south of Riverside. Um. It is not, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the typical suburban neighborhood. It is the kind of ranch

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<v Speaker 1>homes they call themselves Horsetown, USA. In fact, everybody's got

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<v Speaker 1>of a horse trail running through their backyard. This is

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<v Speaker 1>in south central California. For folks listening around the globe,

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<v Speaker 1>go on, Josh, that's right, the Great Inland Empire. So

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<v Speaker 1>uh so you know, Ron, it was a hobby machinist,

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<v Speaker 1>fixes up some things. He's got a lot of machinery

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<v Speaker 1>in his yard. I remember being taken aback by the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that he's got a giant kind of trailer thing

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<v Speaker 1>in the back. But then I went around and everyone

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<v Speaker 1>has some sort of horse trailer or something in his backyard. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>he was cited for violating the city's code for all

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of things. But instead of just sighting him

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<v Speaker 1>and asking for a fine asking him to clean it up,

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<v Speaker 1>they actually freatened to take his house because of the

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<v Speaker 1>mess in the backyard. And that's that's when Ron started

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<v Speaker 1>fighting back. He actually got an attorney, he got the

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<v Speaker 1>case thrown out. They were trying to take it and

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<v Speaker 1>put it into a receivership, which is where they give

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<v Speaker 1>a government appointed official your property to fix it up

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<v Speaker 1>for you. Uh, they were going to do that. He

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<v Speaker 1>fought it. No receiver ever got the property. But then

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<v Speaker 1>after he thought he had won, the attorneys for the

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<v Speaker 1>city sent him a bill for over sixty dollars and

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<v Speaker 1>that was supposedly because well, they had to pay that

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<v Speaker 1>the costs of the whole receivership, but they didn't win

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<v Speaker 1>the receivership. The court ruled in Ron's favor. Correct. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the court actually vacated kind of got rid of the

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<v Speaker 1>original receivership ruling it had originally awarded the receivership when

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<v Speaker 1>he was in the hospital. He couldn't show up the court.

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<v Speaker 1>He had a heart surgery. Um. And this is what's

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<v Speaker 1>crazy is that, you know, a normal government official going

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<v Speaker 1>going into court when the court looks at you and says,

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<v Speaker 1>are you sure you want to proceed because the defendant

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<v Speaker 1>is in the hospital. A normal official who has you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's susceptible to the public will, is probably going to

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<v Speaker 1>think twice, that's right. This. This is not a normal

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<v Speaker 1>government official that's asking for the sixty dollars that brought

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<v Speaker 1>this case against him. This is a private law firm.

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<v Speaker 1>And the law firm actually makes its money by going

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<v Speaker 1>after these people. It offers what's called cost recovery services

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<v Speaker 1>to these tiny cities, and it basically says, hey, why

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<v Speaker 1>pay your own attorneys when we'll get our fees back

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<v Speaker 1>from the people we prosecute. And that goes for both

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<v Speaker 1>criminal violations as well as civil enforcement cases like nuisance

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<v Speaker 1>abatements or these receivership proceedings. So it's a prosecutor essentially

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<v Speaker 1>asking you to pay for the privilege of having been

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<v Speaker 1>prosecuted unsuccessfully in this case. And as you pointed out

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<v Speaker 1>in some of the written material that we read before

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<v Speaker 1>he came on, this was not like the first time

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<v Speaker 1>they made this maneuver. These companies do this over and

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<v Speaker 1>over again. Somebody's got backyard chickens they're not supposed to have.

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<v Speaker 1>All of a sudden they say, all right, I'll get

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<v Speaker 1>rid of the chickens, and they get hit with a

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<v Speaker 1>giant legal bill for the right of being prosecuted. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually this is kind of a follow up, so

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<v Speaker 1>you're referring to another case. We had an India, which

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<v Speaker 1>is also in the same same area of California, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in that case, it was it was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it caused such a stir that the California legislature nearly

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<v Speaker 1>unanimously passed a bill to stop this practice. The problem

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<v Speaker 1>is they added, during the whole legislative rigmarole, a tiny

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<v Speaker 1>exception that basically said, for civil cases. Well, the problem

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<v Speaker 1>is a lot of enforcement cases in California don't go

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<v Speaker 1>to criminal court. They go to a civil essentially a

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<v Speaker 1>civil court, but it's still an enforcement proceeding, and the

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<v Speaker 1>California has Supreme Court has still that look. A prosecutor,

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<v Speaker 1>whether in a civil enforcement or criminal enforcement, cannot have

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<v Speaker 1>a conflict of interest, cannot make money from prosecuting people.

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<v Speaker 1>Joshua House is an attorney for the Institute for Justice.

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<v Speaker 1>They try to protect your rights. So, josh just in general,

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<v Speaker 1>before we let you go, I'm sorry, may we call

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<v Speaker 1>you Joshua? Do you really prefer Joshua? Josh a shorter

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<v Speaker 1>Why don't you go with that? Alright? Um, is even

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<v Speaker 1>shorter than so, josh What is do you think the

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<v Speaker 1>most common, the most egregious, the most annoying infringement on

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<v Speaker 1>property rights going on in the US today? Well, I'd

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<v Speaker 1>say I'm biased because kind of my niche here at

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<v Speaker 1>the Institute for Justice is these code enforcement sorts of cases.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think people don't realize, you know, we get

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<v Speaker 1>all upset about the federal government and it's it seems

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<v Speaker 1>so large and kind of Leviathan like, but really some

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<v Speaker 1>of the gravest abuses of liberty can happen at these

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<v Speaker 1>tiny municipal levels where there's a lot of kind of

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<v Speaker 1>personal influence over the government, where you know, someone a

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<v Speaker 1>city council decides they don't like the one guy in

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<v Speaker 1>town who's kind of this, you know, maybe a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a character, and they can go after him. And

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<v Speaker 1>there are very few do process protections for what goes

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<v Speaker 1>on at kind of the local level. We haven't. We

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<v Speaker 1>had another case actually in um in Pagdale, Missouri. It's

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<v Speaker 1>right outside St. Louis, where one of our clients had

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<v Speaker 1>been ticketed for having mismatched drapes. In other words, the

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<v Speaker 1>drapes on some windows didn't match the drapes on other

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<v Speaker 1>Windows's somewhere that was a thing. But really the point

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<v Speaker 1>of that wasn't her color of her drapes. It was

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<v Speaker 1>that the city made sometimes over its income from ticketing

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<v Speaker 1>people this way. Well, right, you know, it's funny. I

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<v Speaker 1>was just going to bring up the case of points

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<v Speaker 1>just flitted out of my head. Um uh, where they

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<v Speaker 1>had all the riots and everything um Ferguson, Missouri. That

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<v Speaker 1>was the media was so obsessed with the race baiting

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<v Speaker 1>aspects of the case that they barely reported on the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that the people of Ferguson were thoroughly piste off,

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<v Speaker 1>that they were constantly being targeted with tiki tak offenses

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<v Speaker 1>and fine didn't stopped for rolling stop signs all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was a major part of the local budget.

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<v Speaker 1>And they realized that they were being exploited because they

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't afford to hire lawyers and stuff like that. And

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<v Speaker 1>there was a generalized resentment against the government. So I

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<v Speaker 1>love that you guys are targeting this sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>H Joshua House is an attorney for the Institute for Justice. Hey, Joshua,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks a bunch. Let's stay in touch. Love the work

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<v Speaker 1>you guys are doing great. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, keep it up. That is so true. My

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<v Speaker 1>the town I live in, it turns out, has been

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<v Speaker 1>completely corrupt. There was just a big audit of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and and they were playing fast and loose with so

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<v Speaker 1>many different things and so many backscratching deals in illegal

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<v Speaker 1>use of funds and funky accounting and the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 1>They got caught as a small town. Newspapers go away

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<v Speaker 1>and all our focuses on national media and the president,

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<v Speaker 1>the president of the president, and we didn't. We don't

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<v Speaker 1>even have the patience to talk about Congress anymore. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the president, always the president.