WEBVTT - The Closest Thing to a Meme ETF 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:12.600 Welcome to Trillians. I'm Joel Webber America. I'll shootis I 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.119 am so excited about this week's guest Eric. It's like 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:21.239 the perfect guest for this moment. Yeah. This is a 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.239 company that has been putting et s out for I 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.120 believe about two years. They don't have a ton of them, 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.240 but they're interesting for variety of reason. But they hit 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.159 my radar specifically in the past two weeks because of 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.920 this sort of what I'm calling the a m C eclipse. Uh. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.440 This is that movie chain company that a lot of 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.080 the redditors have, you know, sort of come back that 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:44.400 once you put you know, Game stop, you know, to 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:46.839 the Moon back in January, and then it went right 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.520 back down. But they're back and they've really rallied around 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.839 a m C. It's gone up I don't know, each 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.440 week for the past way. Yeah. Yeah. And here's the 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.680 thing with a m C is that they're really united 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.160 on this one. Um when games Stop happened in January, 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.360 then they splintered off. Some people wanted to go into 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.560 a MC, some said silver. This time they're all into 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.160 a MC and it's showing. The volume on a m 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.360 C has been well over a hundred billion over the 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.479 past seven eight days, and it's traded more than any 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.679 other stock for seven days straight. Nothing has traded more 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.679 than Tesla and the Fang stocks for more than a 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:25.039 day in decades. It's just crazy. So there's a ton 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.160 of activity. And what what I was looking for is Okay, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.280 AMC is having a good rally like what E t 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.440 F s own it and the the E t F 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.000 that owns the most am C and game Stop together 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.680 about a twenty allocation as of today is uh so 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.839 fis fifty E t F, which I hadn't thought about 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.160 in a while, but now I get it. It tracks 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.600 the stocks that are used by their retail investors on 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.240 the discount brokerage. UM. I've been telling people it's like 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.640 maybe a slightly classier version of the Robin Hood fifty. UM. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:59.560 You know the stocks that that were tracked by Robin 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.080 Hood all they stopped letting people track them. But this 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.400 is the probably the best way to capture that sort 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:08.399 of retail yolo kind of audience, I think. And yet 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.119 it's gone largely unnoticed and it's just been an interesting 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.760 case study for me for a variety of reasons. So 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.000 I thought it'd be interesting to talk to them about 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:17.760 this e t F but also some of the other 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:19.880 ones and just sort of how it works into their 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:24.399 bigger business plan. So joining us from so Far John Gardner, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.920 he's the business head of investing at so Far. Can't 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:34.400 wait to speak with him this time on trillions. The 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:39.040 closest thing to a meme et F you can find, John, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.080 Welcome to Trillians, Thanks for having me. The e t 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.320 F s F y F is almost the closest thing 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.040 to bottled lightning you could basically have for what's been 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.640 happening in the market this year. How does it feel 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.520 to have bottled lightning? UM? Well, I think we've you know, 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.519 we think about building products that resonate with our members 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.760 and help them become better investors and ultimately a chief 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.720 financial independence over time. UM. And you know we've we've 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.000 launched six ets to date. S F y F was 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.959 born about a year ago, UM and really just replicates 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.760 the top fifty holdings of our members. And you know, 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.160 we thought we saw something very interesting because we have 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.840 as part of a feature of our our retail brokerage platform, UH, 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.919 something we call social Invested. So it's the ability to 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.520 actually follow what other members by and you can see 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.400 sort of buying a percentage basis, but not a dollar 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.960 basis what people are holding, and then you can comment 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.880 and engage with with other members. It's been pretty engaging 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.840 utility for for our members. So on the back of that, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.960 we launched the s F y f UM as a 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.920 mechanism basically enable our members to very quickly sort of 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.920 replicate sort of the mind of of the group UM. 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.520 And you know, it's been interesting that I think it's 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.840 a sort of bifurcated between some of the meme stocks 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.880 and then more traditional holdings like Amazon or Apple or 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.560 Tesla that our members hold. Yeah, Joel, look, let me 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.200 give you some numbers on this thing. So it's up 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.480 thirty three percent this year, probably a little more by 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:06.240 the time this airs. UM the Stars of right the 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.040 Cues is up seven um smps up. That's up more 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.839 because values having a big comeback this year, and then 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.440 ARC is down twelve percent. So it's hard to come 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:19.160 up with an e t F this year that's sort 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.440 of able to break out unless you're a value stock 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.920 et F for commodities, but for something that holds just 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.359 general equities that are not value stocks. It's just an anomaly. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.320 And as John said, it's interesting. It's also has like 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.280 a lot of airline companies which obviously aren't you witness 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.520 associate them so much with um, you know, a growth stock, 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.720 it's got um what looks like a pot Company's got 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.279 Berkshire in here. It's got ex On Mobile, which is 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.320 having a great year, Virgin galactic Um. It's a real 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.440 interesting mix. I guess John, could you walk through how 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.080 the stocks are picked and how this et F works 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:01.920 in relation to those investors that are using your brokerage platform. Sure. So, 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.440 it's the top fifty most widely held US listed stocks 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.200 on our sofa in best platform. And mechanically, the way 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.760 that we look at it is by first the top 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.640 fifty holdings by number of members that actually hold a 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.080 stock or a share or a portion of a stock 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.680 or share in the portfolio, and then we basically wait 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:27.120 the portfolio based on the value of the shares that 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.400 make that top fifty from waiting standpoint, and then we 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.080 re balanced the portfolio once a month to basically reflect 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:38.080 the mechanics that I just discussed. And now just real quick, Um, 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.720 your your ideal weight for a stock isn't going to 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.479 be nine, but a MC has grown to We saw 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.960 this with game stock UM and the video game et 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.600 F where it became like a thirty waiting um. Can 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.400 you talk a little bit about how that works, Like, 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.880 if the stock like this goes on some crazy run, 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.640 it's going to have a bigger waiting for a while 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.920 until there's a the stock goes back down or rebalance. 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.200 That's exactly right. So I think that this was someone 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.880 fortuitous for us. So we saw a massive run up 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.400 into the end of the month, and then we did 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.800 the rebalance. So while the stock was you know in 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.400 the in i think total of holdings for a period 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.080 of time, when we we balanced that it's back to 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.680 somewhe somewhere around a six percent waiting right now. So 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.640 when did you get a sense that AMC was gonna 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:32.680 light up? I think, as probably most people, we watched 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.880 the NBC all day and you could see that the 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.400 stocks started trending, and you know, we we look at 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.120 all the meme boards, the redded boards and things like that, 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.240 and you can start to see some momentum behind it. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.800 But again, I think we're we're agnostic, you know, I 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.480 think we're we're we we philosophically, UH as a company 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.560 want to provide a lot of selection for our members 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.840 UH and make it easy for them to invest, which 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.839 is why we do things more broadly on the on 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.039 the retail broken side, like no commissions and being able 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.360 to do fractional share trading. So while it was again 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.000 fortuitous that we saw a sort of a run up 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.760 in the stock, I think we you know, we're literally 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.040 just trying to give our members, you know, the best 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.440 and easiest way to invest their money and then an 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.240 easy way for both our members on the platform, but 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.400 then you know, off platform and other brokerage brokerage platforms 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.040 the ability to sort of easily with a single purchase 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.160 be able to you know, get an exposure to the 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.680 mind of sort of what our members are doing. So, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:26.760 you know, one of the things that I get asked 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.920 a lot on Twitter, especially when one of these stocks 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.200 goes crazy, is how come there isn't a meme TF 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.640 and trying to explain to people that it is hard 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.840 to predict a meme stock or a situation before it happens. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.960 Potentially a short squeeze et F would make sense because 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.920 the memurs seem to want to buy stocks that are 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.000 heavily shorted. But I guess this brings up labeling because 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.119 if you look at the c t F, it's taken 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.160 a little bit of cash over the past week. Um. 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.080 But relative to this sort of shiny object moment it 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.720 is having where it's you know, doubling tripling the market, Um, 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.680 it's not a lot. And I wonder if there's any 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.480 temptation to to change it or I don't know, not regret, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.240 but like do you do you ever think about, well, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.520 if this had a ticker that was more clear that 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.040 it was tracking retail traders or something or are you 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.640 just let me let me ask a question from my friend. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.680 Why isn't the e t F called meme or you know, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.480 a the retail trader something that would allude to the 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.200 fact that you're capturing young retail traders. That is definitely 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.760 missing from the E t F marketplace. That's why it's 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.880 an interesting situation. So I have a couple of observations. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.640 First of all, I do think the ticker name is 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.439 critically important in creating brand awareness. Um. And you know, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.439 one of our other products is called the gig g 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.559 i G for the gig economy, which we can talk 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.920 about later. The reason why we didn't call this the 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.600 meme stock um e F is largely because really what 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.360 we're trying to do is reflect sort of the mind 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.040 of the retail invest there. And what's been interesting is 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.560 that while we're capturing I think UM some of the 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.319 early friends for from meme stocks, and you know, and 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.480 more broadly, we've seen like our investors started buying Tesla 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.120 before we got into the SP five hundred, and there 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.760 was a big position in the portfolio. UM. We also 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.640 see that that our retail investors are holding more traditional 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.240 names like Apple and Amazon and Microsoft and Disney UH 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.719 in big positions. So I think you get a good 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.520 balance of sort of opportunistic high price movement UM stocks 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.880 with some of the meme things, but then also more 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.319 high growth, traditional high growth companies. And you know, I 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.360 also think that while you might try to chase the 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.240 meme stocks, and Eric you alluded to this that you know, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.400 it's really hard to sort of identify what's going to 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.120 take off and and those things, those things turn around 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.520 just as quickly as they as they scale up. So 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.280 you know, we're trying to build basically products that haven'tdurt 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.199 and during value for our members um and are basically 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.080 trying to solve for specific needs. So um, you know, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.400 the reason we created the s F y F portfolio 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.120 initially was because we saw, as I alluded to before 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.360 on our social investing platform, that there's a high degree 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.400 of interest in following successful investors on the PLA form, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:01.720 and we thought this would be a great way to 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.120 sort of very easy make it very easy for our 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.880 members to basically, with one trade, be able to get 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.800 exposure to the mind of basically the entire member basis 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:19.400 so far okay. So the difference that I guess I 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.079 see here or or could potentially see, is like you 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.559 have a membership and a so far investors set that 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.840 you're clearly targeting, but at the same time, like assets 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.320 under management in this in this particular et F is 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.200 what twenty two million like you there seems like there's 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:41.640 such a bigger opportunity with a different presence of chicker 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.000 or sell to the marketplace, because I mean, what you're 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.319 what you have under the hood here is kind of amazing, 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.360 and yet the assets still reflected necessarily and look, can 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.640 I jump in on that real quick? Just because we're 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:55.960 so used to the opportunism in the e t F 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:01.040 market that it might also speak to your main at 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.280 so far, you're not an e t F fishuer, you're 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.240 a fintech company that that happens to have E t s. 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.440 Can you just walk through that balance and is that 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.480 why that that you can that your aren't maybe thinking 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:19.839 in such but the word is like marketplace trends and 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.280 terminology and maybe you just have no interest in being 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.720 that thing to the market. Yeah, I think that it's 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:28.440 I think it would be helpful just to step back 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.640 and sort of introduced so far for those um that 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.520 aren't familiar with it. So we're an online personal finance 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.600 company that enables people to invest, borrow, save, spend and 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.439 protect their money. UM. We were recently listed on the 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.800 nasdac UH. We went public vs back through social with 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.439 Social Capital H and SAM and you know, broadly, our 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.800 goal is to help people achieve their financial independence, to 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.640 realize their ambition. And we'll be able to do that 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.840 for for millions or millions of our members. And you know, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.400 as I think about the invest leave and specifically for 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.480 for so far, you know, we we want to be 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.920 the one stop shop for our members to help them 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.880 achieve that financial independence. So we started out with auto 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:13.040 investing and then migrated into also offering a Brokeren solution, 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.600 which we call active investing. And there, you know, we 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.440 were very early on and going commission free. We were 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.120 we were one of the first firms to offer fractional 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.280 share trading that we did UM initially on about a 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:25.880 hundred fifty names and now we do on about names 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.320 in a real time basis. And then UH in two 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.040 thousand and nineteen, we also launched a crypto platform so 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.720 that basically members that had brokerage accounts could very easily 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.160 open a crypto account UH and get access to something 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.520 more traditional UH cryptocurrencies. And I think as we think 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.120 about why we entered the marketplace for ETFs, you know, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.000 we want to continue to provide selection for our members 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.319 that help them become better investors. And UM we found, 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.240 you know, we found that there were some interesting request 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:54.959 the needs that we could we thought we could we 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.160 could support. So we we came to market in two 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.680 thousand and nineteen with our first E t F first 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.240 two E t F s, s F Y and s 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.760 F y X, and we were first to market with 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.880 no fee E t F s. They were basically passively 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.400 managed accounts that were replicating the SMP five and then 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.920 sort of the next five. From there, we've launched a 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.280 handful of other UH E t F s that we 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.079 think meet specific needs for our members. So we came 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.360 to market with a product called t g i F 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:30.280 which was a week fixed income weekly UH weekly dividend 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.679 payment UM fund, which recently won UH the UH Best 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.600 Best Named E t F for two thousand and twenty, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.160 and then more recently launched w K o I which 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.439 is basically the equity component of weekly dividend e t F. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.160 Sea can I jump here on these two? T G 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.800 I F Remember when it came out? So this is 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.040 a it pays the dividend out weekly. Now what's the 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.199 point of this, Like normally an e t F that 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.880 holds equities and whether it's divid or not, will pay 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.800 out monthly. UM Is this is because the younger investor 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.679 wants that payment on a quicker basis or is there 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.080 another reason like what's behind the need for weekly payout? Yeah? 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.839 I think I think broadly, we you know, as we 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.240 think about so FI RIT large, you know, we help 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.240 we try to help people think about their cash flow 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.920 management UM and We have a tool called Relay as well, 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.920 which is basically our advice platform that you can aggregate 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:25.880 all your data and we provide helpful tips around how 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.720 to sort of optimize your finances. Uh, And we thought that, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.720 you know, I think a couple of things. One is 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.160 it's just a more predictive income on a weekly basis. 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.040 And then too, to the extent that you're going to 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:36.960 sell out of out of the port the out of 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.000 the the e t f UM, you're basically not missing 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.200 any of the fun distributions, which is probably more wele 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:44.680 than on the w k l Y, which is the 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.120 which is the equity etf But I think it was 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.360 a combination of those two things. So when you think 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.680 about overall strategy and you walk through a lot of 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.560 the products that you you currently have brought to market, 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:56.680 like what do you what do you feel like the 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.440 endgame looks like I think, you know, we're trying to 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.040 build and they can go back to go back to 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.920 answer your original question. You know, while obviously it's important 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.920 for us to grow assets on these platforms, you know, 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.880 I think ultimately we want to create a suite of 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.080 enduring financial products and ETFs UM that specifically support that 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.160 sort of things that our members are most interested in. So, UH, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.360 while you know, it's it's uh, it's it's interesting to 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.280 potentially chase UM revenue opportunities and try to scale assets, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.160 you know, really really quickly, and you never know when 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.040 you're gonna catch lightning in a bottle UM. You know, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.480 I think we've had this product in market for less 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.880 than two years. I think all of our funds, like 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.200 we literally have been in market for about two years, 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.600 just over two years for all of them. I think 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.720 what we're starting to see is we're starting starting to 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.800 reach at inflection point UM, both from performance and track 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.680 record that we're starting to get more attention. So, you know, 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.680 I look at this as building and enduring platform of funds. 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.960 We've got six today, we plan on launching another three 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.400 by the end of a year. UM. There'll be more 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.760 thematic in nature. They'll touch on different aspects of what 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.160 we think our members are interested in. UM. You know 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.320 in our view that this this will be a significant 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.680 and profitable stand a little business for for so far 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:12.880 over time. UM, but it's always going to be in 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.240 the service of really thinking about what our core members 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.360 that are investors on the SOFI active invest platform are 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.400 looking for and building around those needs. Can you put 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.480 yourself in your own portfolio, in your own e t 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.920 F When you say ourselves, you mean SOFI? Yeah, Um, yeah, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:30.960 that's a that's a great question. So no, So for 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.240 the UH, it would be significantly heavily weighted on s 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.600 F y F if we could know we purposely excluded 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:42.760 so far as a as a constituent member in the portfolio. Eric, 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.600 does anybody do that? Do they have themselves in their 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.960 own portfolio? Well, this is what aren't got in trouble 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.160 with or not trouble. I don't have a problem with it. 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.560 But in a r k X the space ETF, the 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.760 second or third biggest holding is a r k uh 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:01.960 PR and T the three D printing e t f 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.760 UM black Rock. They have target date type funds that 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.520 hold black Rock ETFs UM, and black Rock probably has 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.920 a couple of atfs that own black rock stock. It's 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.800 not unheard of. Um, it depends on what it is. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.520 In this case though, if you're tracking the holdings and 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.960 they outright hold so far way more than a normal 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.280 person would, that you wouldn't want it in there. That's 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.720 like a distortion, but I wouldn't I wouldn't like ding 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.480 them on that if it were like a reasonable waiting John. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.040 One of the things we talked about a lot is 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.280 how it really does seem like the marketplace for E 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.760 t f s has been polarized, for lack of a 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:45.399 better term, between really cheap stuff, you know, cheap beta 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.200 as Eric will call it, and like on the other side, 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:53.440 shiny objects. And so I'm wondering how you you kind 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.920 of attempt to thread that needle, because in a way 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.240 you can effectively kind of do both. Yeah, So I 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.040 I think if you look at the funds that we have, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.240 obviously we came with the no fee UM e t 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.480 f s and we we decided just to extend the 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.600 no fees for for a third year, which I think 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.080 we're doing the filing for UH this week. UM. I 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.760 think obviously you want to provide value and differentiated value 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.720 from return standpoint that you can charge for UM. We 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.119 currently charge twenty nine basis points for the s F 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.840 y F product because it is basically a mechanical nature 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.320 in the way that we UM construct and manage it. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:30.560 And then we charge fifteen nine basis points for the 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.440 gig product because it's an actively managed product. I think 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.560 my view is broadly, you know, we don't want to 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.800 it's gonna it's very hard to compete with the eye 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.240 shares of the world at vant guards of the world 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.960 in low costs. So I think where our opportunity is 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.720 is to find uh unique investment opportunities or themes that 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.240 we want to play and and bring those uh to 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.480 our members and you know, be able to charge what 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.000 we think is a reasonable fee of something you know, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.639 somewhere between twenty nine and fifty nine basis points UH, 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.480 and that's potentially a little bit more if we find 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.680 something that's actively managed, it's a little bit more heavy 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.240 lifting to manufacture and manage. So um. You know, I'm 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.040 looking at your product lineup and there's a couple other 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.720 issuers that we have seen where you could tell there 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.600 it's like maybe they have beta and then they tilt 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.960 urse of growth growth area. I would assume maybe you 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.720 are you looking at other areas that have started to 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.200 come back this year that have been sort of lagging 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.760 for the past decade. That would be value, small caps, um, international, 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:34.160 emerging markets, commodities. Good question. Yeah, I mean I think 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.600 we're spending a lot of time this year UM is 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.800 our retail investor business grows and we we think about 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.440 the types of things that they're investing in UH and 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.359 where we see some thematic trends in the marketplace that 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.320 we might take advantage of, where we want to introduce 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.440 the next funds UM. I think that they're probably less 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.440 focused around sort of style UM and asset class and 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.840 more around thematic investing, where I think it's just a 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.320 way to easily express view UM for our for our members. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:04.760 So I want to bring it back to s F 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.920 y F because we started there and I'm curious, like, say, say, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.720 your members got really keen on on something and you know, 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.879 maybe as keen as they've gone on AMC, and we 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.480 you know, you all have to, you know, give it 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.480 a spot, a special spot in in the portfolio and 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.399 in the e t F. Well, what happens if it's 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.879 a done right? AMC definitely went up and and everyone 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.320 looks like geniuses for it. But but what happens if 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.399 it goes the other way? So a couple of things. So, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.959 so one, we have a security max weight of ten 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.919