WEBVTT - Episode 1: RUMBLE YOUNG MAN RUMBLE

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<v Speaker 1>October thirtieth, nineteen seventy four. Kinshasa zaiir.

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<v Speaker 2>Here comes the Ali people out of the dressing room.

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<v Speaker 2>This is an awesome bar of George Foreman against the

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<v Speaker 2>varleyd boxing skills of Muhammad Ali.

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<v Speaker 1>Thirty two year old Muhammad Ali strides through the crowd

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<v Speaker 1>and finds his place at the center of the ring

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<v Speaker 1>for his title fight against the reigning heavyweight champion of

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<v Speaker 1>the World, George Foreman. Their heavyweight title bout is considered

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<v Speaker 1>by many to be the greatest sporting event of all time.

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<v Speaker 1>But what's less well known is that five weeks earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>in that very same stadium, James Brown headlined an epic

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<v Speaker 1>three day long pre fight music festival. This unique event

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<v Speaker 1>brought blackham American musicians like BB King and Bill Withers

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<v Speaker 1>to share the same stage with Afro Caribbean acts such

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<v Speaker 1>as Celia Cruz and African megastars like Miriam Mikiba and

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<v Speaker 1>Hugh Masekela.

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<v Speaker 3>All the biggest Black artist on the planet due a

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<v Speaker 3>concert for this fight.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a musical homecoming for these musicians of the diaspora.

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<v Speaker 1>But all this black excellence in one stadium in Zaire

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<v Speaker 1>during a hot autumn in nineteen seventy four. How did

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<v Speaker 1>this come to be well? The two events were both

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<v Speaker 1>orchestrated and stage managed by, believe it or not, an

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<v Speaker 1>African dictator, Mabutu Seysei Siku.

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<v Speaker 4>Mubuchu is a darling of the West tied to nationalism

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<v Speaker 4>as a way to consolidate his power.

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<v Speaker 1>His full name was Kuku and Bindu Waza Benga. Translated

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<v Speaker 1>into English, it means the all powerful war who, because

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<v Speaker 1>of his endurance and inflexible will to win, goes from

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<v Speaker 1>conquest to conquest, leaving fire.

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<v Speaker 5>In his wake.

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<v Speaker 1>Once the Belgian Congo, Mabutu had rechristened his homeland as Zayir,

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<v Speaker 1>That was the man who was running things well, him

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<v Speaker 1>and the famously colorful boxing promoter Don King. The fight

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<v Speaker 1>and the music festival were originally scheduled for the same

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<v Speaker 1>weekend to be televised across the globe. A music festival

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<v Speaker 1>to warm up the crowds and to reinforce the ascendants

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<v Speaker 1>of black culture on the world stage to mark the

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<v Speaker 1>reconnection of Black America and the Motherland, then to be

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<v Speaker 1>followed by the heavyweight title fight to crown a new

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<v Speaker 1>world champion for a dictator like Mabutu. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>rather masterful bit of international theater. The music festival was

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<v Speaker 1>called Zaire seventy four, a testimony to the growing power

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<v Speaker 1>and glory of Mabutu and his recently liberated African nation,

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<v Speaker 1>and the championship fight became known as the Rumble in

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<v Speaker 1>the Jungle. But as so often happens, Fate stepped in

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<v Speaker 1>to interrupt the carefully coordinated plans of mice and men

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<v Speaker 1>and Central African dictators. Fate also had plans for the

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<v Speaker 1>man called the People's champ.

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<v Speaker 6>We were scared to death for Ali. The people who

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<v Speaker 6>knew about boxing and cared about Ali were really scared

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<v Speaker 6>for George Foreman could literally kill him.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the story of what all went down in

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<v Speaker 1>Zaire in nineteen seventy four, how we get there, and

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<v Speaker 1>for so many reasons. This ultimately is a story of

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<v Speaker 1>excellence in the Key of Blackness.

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<v Speaker 5>Jane Brown said, Said Lois said, I'm Black and I'm Brown.

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<v Speaker 1>Among the numerous legends told lost moments will also be

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<v Speaker 1>revealed in this podcast.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm Niko Ali Walsh.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm a professional boxer and the Muhammad Ali is my grandfather.

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<v Speaker 1>Intertwined with the cultural milestones will come portraits of greatness

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<v Speaker 1>and accounts of rare humanity.

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<v Speaker 5>All the Africans who have been spread around the world,

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<v Speaker 5>we know where you are, we haven't lost track of you,

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<v Speaker 5>and we all hid together on this earth.

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<v Speaker 1>All told, this is a tale of many battles, many fights,

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<v Speaker 1>the wars that rage through both African and American cultures

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<v Speaker 1>in this time, and how these conflicts tested people's values

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<v Speaker 1>and convictions brought into sharpest relief in the story of

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<v Speaker 1>one Muhammad Ali.

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<v Speaker 4>He was a craftsman with the skill of boxing, and

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<v Speaker 4>brilliant a brilliant mind.

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<v Speaker 1>He is our hero and will carry us through all

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<v Speaker 1>the soulful high points, violent lows, cultural chaos, and societal

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<v Speaker 1>craziness to come.

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<v Speaker 8>The military, they mutinied.

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<v Speaker 9>He will not sir in any capacity in a war

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<v Speaker 9>against fellow brown people.

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<v Speaker 3>His life was steadily becoming more and more endangered.

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<v Speaker 1>If fighting was the spirit of the times, you could

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<v Speaker 1>say the soul of seventy four was a rumble. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to Rumble, the story of Ali Foreman and the Soul

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<v Speaker 1>music of nineteen seventy four. I'm your host Zarren Burnett,

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<v Speaker 1>the third from iHeart Podcast School of humans. This is rumble.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't remember a time when I did not know

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<v Speaker 1>about the rumble in the jungle. My pops was a

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<v Speaker 1>huge fan of boxing. He told me this story of

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<v Speaker 1>the Ali form and fight like it was Arthurian legend.

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<v Speaker 1>The way he told it elevated their heavyweight bout to

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<v Speaker 1>the level of the champions of old. My pops also

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<v Speaker 1>gave me his name.

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<v Speaker 5>My name is Zaren W. Burnette Junior. I am a writer, observer,

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<v Speaker 5>and chronicler of American history. I particularly focus on African

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<v Speaker 5>American history because I'm an African American, but I focus

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<v Speaker 5>on American history because I'm an American, and of course

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<v Speaker 5>I'm the father of my son, Zaren Burnett the Third.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, back when I was a boy, when my pops

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<v Speaker 1>told me the story of the young brash Cassius Clay

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<v Speaker 1>taking on the former mob enforcer and leg breaker Sonny Liston,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like hearing about David and Goliath. And my

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<v Speaker 1>pops would also light up whenever he told a story

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<v Speaker 1>about Smokin' Joe Frasier, that was his other favorite boxer.

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<v Speaker 1>But as a kid, I was thrilled by the stories

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<v Speaker 1>about Ali.

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<v Speaker 5>When Ali came out, it was kind of an exciting

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<v Speaker 5>moment because he fought like a middleweight. He fought like

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<v Speaker 5>sugar Ay Robinson. He was real fast, he threw a

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<v Speaker 5>lot of punches and get out the wait.

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<v Speaker 1>By the time I came into the world, Ali was

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<v Speaker 1>considered the goat, the actual greatest of all time, so

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<v Speaker 1>naturally I was eager to hear his story. Ali was

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<v Speaker 1>like no one else, both inside and outside the ring.

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<v Speaker 5>He was a provocateur on purpose.

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<v Speaker 1>The perfect champ of his moment. In every way possible.

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<v Speaker 1>Ali was this new sort of fighter.

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<v Speaker 5>We were all young, so it was fun the white

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<v Speaker 5>young person coming there and kick all the old guy's asses.

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<v Speaker 5>And he was doing all his poetry and he was

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<v Speaker 5>telling all his hit It was like wrestling. He made

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<v Speaker 5>it like wrestling.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen sixty four. Ali made boxing seem less like

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<v Speaker 1>the mean, old brutal sport of face smashing violence. He

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't part of its dark and smoky, old fashioned past,

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<v Speaker 1>the one that wreaked a cigar smoke and spilled liquor.

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<v Speaker 1>Ali's fights felt like the future arriving. His fights were different.

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<v Speaker 1>His style in the ring was different.

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<v Speaker 5>He wasn't a puncher, you know, he didn't hurt people anything.

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<v Speaker 5>He would beat you about, throwing eighteen punches so fast

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<v Speaker 5>that he would just be overwhelmed.

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<v Speaker 1>It always sounded fun, especially how Ali felt like change personified.

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<v Speaker 5>This is the early sixties, so this is also the

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<v Speaker 5>beginning of the Black power movement. Black young people are

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<v Speaker 5>feeling in all kinds of ways. So this is a

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<v Speaker 5>black young person who we can get behind.

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<v Speaker 1>These days. When you ask people about Muhammad Ali, especially

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<v Speaker 1>those who actually knew him, you still hear it in

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<v Speaker 1>their voices how Ali was special.

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<v Speaker 10>Ali was smart, he was bright, and he was handsome.

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<v Speaker 2>Ali was extraordinary in every way. I mean extraordinary boxer,

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<v Speaker 2>extraordinarily beautiful person, extraordinarily loquacious, and the master storyteller.

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<v Speaker 6>I loved Ali, not just as a fighter, but everything

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<v Speaker 6>that he stood for.

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<v Speaker 11>Ali is still refreshing because he's real. It's just no

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<v Speaker 11>bullshit about the guy.

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<v Speaker 7>Ali is so handsome you want him to win.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the course of his career, Muhammad Ali stayed a

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<v Speaker 1>media presence, and as such, he gave many interviews. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems like the people's champ was always talking, always trying

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<v Speaker 1>to explain himself, and all those interviews revealed that Ali

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<v Speaker 1>was a man of complex motivations, as Ali tried to

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<v Speaker 1>tell the world, he was both the butterfly and the bee.

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<v Speaker 4>People in America just find it hard to take a

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<v Speaker 4>fighters seriously. They don't know that I'm using boxing for

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<v Speaker 4>the sake of getting over certain points you couldn't get

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<v Speaker 4>over without it. Being a fighter enables me to attain

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<v Speaker 4>certain ends. I'm not doing this for the glory of fighting,

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<v Speaker 4>but to change a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a quote of Muhammad Ali from the book The

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<v Speaker 1>Fight by Norman Mahler. It's about the rumble in the jungle.

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<v Speaker 1>Mahler was a prolific fan of boxing, and, like many

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<v Speaker 1>of us, a huge fan of Muhammad Ali. In particular.

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<v Speaker 1>In the first chapter of the Mahler attempted to convey

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<v Speaker 1>what it was like to be in the presence of

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<v Speaker 1>the people's champ.

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<v Speaker 10>There's always a shock in seeing him again, not lives

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<v Speaker 10>in television, but standing before you, looking his best. Then

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<v Speaker 10>the world's greatest athlete is in danger of being our

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<v Speaker 10>most beautiful man, and the vocabulary of the camp is

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<v Speaker 10>doomed to appear. Women draw an audible breath, men look down.

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<v Speaker 10>They are reminded again of their lack of worth. If

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<v Speaker 10>Ali never opened his mouth to quiver the jellies of

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<v Speaker 10>public opinion, he would still inspire love and hate, for

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<v Speaker 10>he is the prince of Heaven, so says the silence

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<v Speaker 10>around his body when he is luminous.

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<v Speaker 1>In order to truly understand what was at stake for

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<v Speaker 1>Muhammad Ali in nineteen seventy four when he stepped into

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<v Speaker 1>that ring against Foreman in Zayir, we must first understand

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<v Speaker 1>that Ali at the time was.

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<v Speaker 9>The hero of the moment, the great freedom fighter, the

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<v Speaker 9>person who would challenge American policy, who would represent freedom

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<v Speaker 9>for African Americans.

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<v Speaker 1>No matter where you looked in nineteen seventy four, the

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<v Speaker 1>sense of a fight about to burst out anywhere everywhere

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<v Speaker 1>was rolling through the culture like thunder. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>time of upheaval. To anyone paying attention, it was abundantly

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<v Speaker 1>clear the world was changing fast. Some folks were busy

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<v Speaker 1>fighting against that change. Others were out protesting and organizing

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<v Speaker 1>to fight to advance it. The rest were caught in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle. The war in Vietnam had reached the peak

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<v Speaker 1>of its unpopularity. After a decade of body bags sent

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<v Speaker 1>home to the United States with little to show for

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<v Speaker 1>their sacrifices. There were groups like the Weather Underground and

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<v Speaker 1>their terror campaign of homemade bombs. OPEC announced an oil embargoed,

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<v Speaker 1>effectively crippling the oil driven economies of the West. News

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<v Speaker 1>cameras recorded the effect for everyday Americans. High and priceikes

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<v Speaker 1>at the grocery store, memorable blocks, long lines formed at

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<v Speaker 1>gas stations. This is when the Detroit carmakers began to

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<v Speaker 1>lose ground to the compact cars built in Japan. The

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<v Speaker 1>steel plants were closing, Big factories were shuttered. Layoffs in

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<v Speaker 1>industries across the board were daily headlines. Many cities were crumbling.

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<v Speaker 1>The site of them could inspire dystopian fiction. Things did

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<v Speaker 1>not appear promising for the American experiment. Even the President,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Nixon, spent his days battling for his political life.

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<v Speaker 7>It was almost two years ago. In June nineteen seventy two,

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<v Speaker 7>the five men into the Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington.

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<v Speaker 7>It turned out that they were connected with my reelection committee.

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<v Speaker 1>Now he still didn't believe it in the spring of

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<v Speaker 1>seventy four, but Watergate that was a fight Nixon was

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<v Speaker 1>bound to lose. Meanwhile, there was the People's chamt Muhammad Ali.

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<v Speaker 6>Standing for principles and willing to give up everything for

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<v Speaker 6>his principles.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was the heavyweight champion of the world, George Foreman.

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<v Speaker 2>Very serious and quiet, incredibly confident. He was gonna talk

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<v Speaker 2>with his gloves, not with his mouth.

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<v Speaker 1>The two men were bound to fight. Everyone knew it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just a matter of time.

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<v Speaker 3>What was going on in the world at the time

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<v Speaker 3>made this fight as important that anything else is going

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<v Speaker 3>on on the planet. So even if you don't fuck

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<v Speaker 3>with this, if this is not your first language, you

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<v Speaker 3>need to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>This show is about so much more than Muhammad Ali,

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<v Speaker 1>the man, the fighter, the cultural icon. Yet he is

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<v Speaker 1>the focus, and so it is with him, the people's

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<v Speaker 1>champ where our episodic journey begins.

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<v Speaker 5>They float like a butterflies thing, like a bit. You

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<v Speaker 5>gotta be a damn food to get in the ring

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<v Speaker 5>with me.

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<v Speaker 1>He was born Cassius Marcellus Clay Junior in Louisville, Kentucky,

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<v Speaker 1>on January seventeenth, nineteen forty two.

0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 9>He grew up in a border state. The worst of

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 9>segregation passed him by. Although Louisville was segregated in neighborhoods,

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 9>most schools, parks, public spaces. But African Americans had the

0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 9>vote and some labor power and were able to mitigate

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 9>the worst of the segregation of that era. Still, he

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 9>could look forward to less than full rights as a

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 9>human being.

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>That's Lewis Ehrenberg, author of Rumble in the Jungle, one

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 1>of the definitive books on the Ali Foreman fight and

0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Ali's place in boxing history. He is a fount of

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 1>all things Ali, As Ehrenberg explains, by the time Ali

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 1>was a young boy, he already fully understood the force

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.920
<v Speaker 1>racism played in reducing the potential of his parents' lives

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 1>under Jim Crow. For Ali, his father.

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 9>In particular, was a very unhappy guy who he wanted

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 9>to be an artist. He ended up a sign painter.

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 9>It was difficult for him to earn a living.

0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Cassius Clay's parents warned to their son about the risks

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.000
<v Speaker 1>he'd face in life, not just economic and professional, but

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 1>from believing himself to be free. After all, lynching's were

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 1>still a very real threat in the forties and fifties.

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 9>His father regaled him with tales of how African Americans

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 9>were treated when they stepped outside the black community, including

0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 9>the fire bombing of a home bought by a black

0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:49.840
<v Speaker 9>family in a white neighborhood.

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Now you might be asking yourself, as I wondered. Raised

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 1>with ugly racist violence as a constant threat, why would

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 1>young Casius Clay want to pick up boxing gloves.

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 4>At twelve years old? Someone stole my bicycle. I went

0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 4>to a home show where the display cars and refrigerators

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.360
<v Speaker 4>and household utensils and everything. And I went there and

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.000
<v Speaker 4>I left my bicycle outside and came out. It was

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 4>drizzling rain that night, Saturday evening, about nine o'clock. My

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 4>bicycle was gone. I just got it for Christmas. I

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 4>asked somebody with the closest police officer, and they said

0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:30.960
<v Speaker 4>in the same building. I just came out.

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Young Cassius Clay went back inside and he founded the

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 1>officer who would go on to become an integral person

0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.840
<v Speaker 1>in his formative years. The CoP's name.

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.240
<v Speaker 4>Joe Martin, was training amateur boxes in a room about

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 4>this size, and he asked me to take out an

0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 4>application and learned how to fight so I could beat

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 4>the fellow up in a joking fashion who stole my bicycle?

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 12>So I started boxing.

0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Ironically, a white cop teaching a young black boy to

0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 1>fight was seen at the time to be a way

0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.360
<v Speaker 1>to keep him on the straight and narrow. His parents

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.440
<v Speaker 1>were relieved because it kept young Cashius Clay from getting

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 1>caught up in any street crime or random trouble. Now

0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.520
<v Speaker 1>he had a focus. This marked the beginning of Cassius

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 1>Clay's road to future greatness, a road that was documented

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.680
<v Speaker 1>by his most authoritative biographer.

0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 11>My name is Jonathan Iig, and I am a writer

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 11>and the author of the Muhammad Ali biography called ali Alife.

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Early on in the research and construction of the narrative,

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 1>I was struck with one question.

0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.360
<v Speaker 11>What made this kid think he could be special? First

0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 11>of all, he just seems to have this appetite for

0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 11>attention from a very early age, before he can talk,

0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.080
<v Speaker 11>you know, he's just standing up in the crib and

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:44.959
<v Speaker 11>in the stroller, just wants everybody to look at him

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 11>all the time. And then when he gets to school

0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.159
<v Speaker 11>he has dyslexia. He doesn't really know it, but he

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 11>discovers that he can't really get the attention for his schoolwork.

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.720
<v Speaker 11>He's not as good as he should be in terms

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.400
<v Speaker 11>of you know, reading, writing, and arithmetic. But he can

0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 11>make people laugh and he can make people pay attention

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.760
<v Speaker 11>with his wordplay, and he seems to really need that,

0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.400
<v Speaker 11>so I think that's a key too. When he discovers boxing,

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.160
<v Speaker 11>he doesn't really show what he interested in other sports

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 11>because it's not enough of a spotlight for him. I

0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.159
<v Speaker 11>guess boxing it's if you're the one winning, you're the

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 11>one getting all the attention.

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.679
<v Speaker 1>And he was good, like so good that when the

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.440
<v Speaker 1>fledgling fighter wanted to get on a local Louisville TV

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.200
<v Speaker 1>show called Tomorrow's Champions Piece of k done, he moved

0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 1>on to new goals, bigger goals. Casius Clay became an

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.760
<v Speaker 1>amateur boxer on the rise. He won the Golden Gloves,

0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 1>he won the National AAU, and eventually he qualified for

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.359
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen sixty Olympics. He would travel to Rome to

0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.919
<v Speaker 1>represent the United States on the world stage, and he

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 1>won the goal. He was only eighteen years old when

0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.639
<v Speaker 1>he returned home to the American South. It took him

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.439
<v Speaker 1>only a few days to realize winning gold for the

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.359
<v Speaker 1>US of A did next to nothing to change how

0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 1>he was treated in Louisville, Kentucky.

0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.479
<v Speaker 4>It made me popular for a few days, but I

0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:17.000
<v Speaker 4>wanted to do something good with it. So I went downtown.

0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.639
<v Speaker 4>At the time, black people was marching to eat in

0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.439
<v Speaker 4>the white restaurants. They wanted rights to go where they

0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.800
<v Speaker 4>wanted to. And I said, so I'll take this medal

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 4>and I'll go downtown and I'll sit down at the restaurant.

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.040
<v Speaker 4>I got him on the spot now, and then I'll

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.840
<v Speaker 4>order something to eat. So I go downtown and I

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.720
<v Speaker 4>have the medalon, and the lady was looking and I said,

0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 4>I'd like a cheeseburger. She said, we don't serve negroes.

0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 4>I said, and I don't eat them either. Just give

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 4>me the cheeseburger.

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.600
<v Speaker 1>That's one version of the story Ali would later tell.

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.399
<v Speaker 1>There were a couple others, like how Ali.

0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 9>Went into a bar and the owner chased him out

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 9>even though Cassius Clay was wearing the metal. He also

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 9>said that he was chased out of the bar by bikers,

0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:08.680
<v Speaker 9>white bikers.

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.360
<v Speaker 1>Then there was the story about the Ohio River. This

0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 1>river held specific meaning. It had always been the line

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 1>that demarketed freedom when black people were enslaved in America.

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Those close knew, if you can cross the Ohio, you free.

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.960
<v Speaker 9>Now a whole legend has grown up around this. He

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 9>was so bitter, he threw his medal away. It's just

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:36.840
<v Speaker 9>not clear what happened to the metal. He may have

0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.280
<v Speaker 9>just misplaced it, but he definitely stopped wearing it.

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.560
<v Speaker 1>The way he tells it, Young Cashius Clay, well, he

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.359
<v Speaker 1>took his gold medal and tossed it right into that

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:54.080
<v Speaker 1>river and proclaimed himself free. And the river was his witness.

0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.119
<v Speaker 1>In his hometown of Louisville, segregation didn't stop local white

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.520
<v Speaker 1>businessmen from making money off a piece of Young Cashu's clay.

0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.880
<v Speaker 1>If anything, That's what the South was best at, finding

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.240
<v Speaker 1>ways to profit off a black body while limiting what

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 1>that same person could do with their body. It didn't

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.159
<v Speaker 1>take long for Louisville moneymen to see dollar signs in

0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:16.679
<v Speaker 1>the form of Cash's clay.

0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.159
<v Speaker 9>Once he won the gold medal as a light heavyweight

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:24.159
<v Speaker 9>at the nineteen sixty Olympics, he attracted the attention of

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:29.920
<v Speaker 9>various white businessmen in Louisville. The owners of distilleries, newspapers,

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 9>et cetera, who put up money for his training, put

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 9>money in for bank account that would accrue earnings over time,

0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:43.040
<v Speaker 9>and in fact, Clay had a boost that few not

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.760
<v Speaker 9>only African American athletes, but any American athlete had. He

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.400
<v Speaker 9>was like the first corporate athlete.

0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>What those white businessmen did not expect is that Ali

0:21:55.880 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 1>was going to do Ali as a kid, Cash's love

0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:04.040
<v Speaker 1>to watch the pro wrestler Gorgeous George perform on local

0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.679
<v Speaker 1>Louisville TV. He studied how Gorgeous George hyped up an

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.679
<v Speaker 1>upcoming match, boasting about what all he planned to do

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.600
<v Speaker 1>next time he was in the ring. His hyperbolic bravado

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 1>stayed with Cassius Clay. He later said, you know.

0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.399
<v Speaker 4>He makes a lot of money with that kind of talk.

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna be like him and liven up the fight game.

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Notable fight writer, best selling sports biographer, and ESPN commentator

0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:33.359
<v Speaker 1>Mark Krigel believes that Gorgeous George's influence was absolutely key

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to who Ali would become as a boxer and as

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:37.480
<v Speaker 1>his own hype man.

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.120
<v Speaker 12>If you look at the wrestling construct, it's not an

0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:45.240
<v Speaker 12>accident that Muhammad Ali said that he learned from Gorgeous George.

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:51.720
<v Speaker 12>I mean, Gorgeous George himself is like a very American archetype,

0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:56.919
<v Speaker 12>and Ali used that stuff. Glitz, the razzle, the braggadocio,

0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.000
<v Speaker 12>whatever you want to call it. He used that to

0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.679
<v Speaker 12>connect with the audience. And the audience can hate you,

0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:07.159
<v Speaker 12>they can love you, but they can't feel neutral, and

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 12>that was part of Ali's genius.

0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.879
<v Speaker 1>Ali seized on the symbolic power inherent in the narratives

0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 1>of pro wrestling.

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.480
<v Speaker 12>You can't understand boxing. I don't think you can understand

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:23.200
<v Speaker 12>American culture without understanding wrestling, and wrestling as a construct

0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 12>requires a couple of things.

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:31.679
<v Speaker 1>You need a babyface and a heel. The babyface is

0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 1>the protagonist, the hero.

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:38.120
<v Speaker 12>The protagonist needs to have that great, resourceful sense of narcissism.

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.600
<v Speaker 12>It would help them measurably if he has a sense

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:43.480
<v Speaker 12>of humor, which Ali had in abundance.

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.320
<v Speaker 1>And the heel is, of course the antagonist the villain.

0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:50.159
<v Speaker 1>But you need other dynamics and a role playing for

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.480
<v Speaker 1>the wrestling construct to be compelling.

0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 12>The protagonist, the leading man, whether he's the heel of

0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:01.000
<v Speaker 12>the babyface, usually has a valet. For a great part

0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 12>of Ali's career, that was co Cell.

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 1>As in the legendary sports commentator Howard Cosell and Cossell.

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:10.880
<v Speaker 1>He was the star of.

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.080
<v Speaker 12>All those wide world of sports broadcasts that went into

0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 12>everyone's living room. There was co Cell this like kind

0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.080
<v Speaker 12>of goofy Jewish guy from Brooklyn. What's he doing there?

0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.640
<v Speaker 12>But he's got some sort of rapport with Ali and

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:27.359
<v Speaker 12>it was comic, but it was also meaningful and no

0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:28.600
<v Speaker 12>one had seen that before.

0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:32.679
<v Speaker 1>Now, along with the valet, a wrestling hero also needs

0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:33.480
<v Speaker 1>a hype man.

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:37.399
<v Speaker 12>What he didn't have until Zayir was the ring master,

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 12>the barnum, another narcissist at the center of the ring,

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:46.640
<v Speaker 12>screaming and yelling, you know, selling tickets. Come see this,

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 12>Come one, come all. It's a freak show. It's crazy.

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 12>It's a race war. It's not a race war. It's brutality.

0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:54.920
<v Speaker 12>You'll never see this again. Whatever, It is a shameless

0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.280
<v Speaker 12>presence in the center of the ring, and that, of

0:24:57.359 --> 0:24:59.200
<v Speaker 12>course is Don King.

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.400
<v Speaker 1>The impress Sorio of the fight game. Don King had

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:08.280
<v Speaker 1>the same love and talent for spectacle, much like Ali.

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.640
<v Speaker 1>He also could elevate boxing with his flare for storytelling.

0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:17.560
<v Speaker 1>But Don King also represents the more sinister side of boxing,

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 1>the mob connections and fixed fights that dark past we

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.720
<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier. It was still the norm when Ali was

0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:29.040
<v Speaker 1>coming up, but again, Ali was different at.

0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:31.359
<v Speaker 12>The end of the day. One of the things that

0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:35.560
<v Speaker 12>got him over certainly with the American public and probably

0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.359
<v Speaker 12>around the world, was a sense of humor.

0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:39.040
<v Speaker 5>But that's not all.

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Ali also had one other key aspect to his character.

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 12>The second thing, and maybe the most important thing, was

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:52.240
<v Speaker 12>his undeniable courage, and that is the revelation of Zayir.

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:57.280
<v Speaker 1>The Rumble in the Jungle takes place in nineteen seventy four,

0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 1>but you cannot really understand what all goes down in

0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:05.160
<v Speaker 1>that boxingering in Zaire without first understanding what Muhammad Ali

0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:08.760
<v Speaker 1>stood to win, or rather to regain in that title fight.

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Thus we must go back to nineteen sixty four, when

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 1>a young Cassius Clay first stood in the ring fighting

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 1>for his chance to claim the title of heavyweight Champion

0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:22.919
<v Speaker 1>of the World. Cassius Clay was up against a serious,

0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:26.840
<v Speaker 1>real life villain. As Lewis Ehrenberg recalled the champ at

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>the time.

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 9>Sonny Liston was a bad man. I mean that is

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 9>bad in the folkloric sense. He was so good he

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:37.399
<v Speaker 9>was bad.

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:40.879
<v Speaker 1>Sonny Liston went to prison for armed robbery, sent to

0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 1>a hell hole that Time magazine once described as quote

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:49.560
<v Speaker 1>the bloodiest forty seven acres in America. Yet Liston thrived

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:52.720
<v Speaker 1>in that gladiator pit. In fact, his future in the

0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 1>fight game first opened up to him while he was

0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 1>locked up. The way my pops told.

0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:00.480
<v Speaker 5>It to me, he was boxeding and wound guys who

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:04.840
<v Speaker 5>fixed who arranged spouts, bringing in other fighters to fight.

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.800
<v Speaker 5>The prisoners saw Liston fight, said that's the man we

0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:10.040
<v Speaker 5>need to They went back talk to the boys, got

0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:14.720
<v Speaker 5>in parolled parole from the federal prison and the condition

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:16.920
<v Speaker 5>was to them that you fight for us now.

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.679
<v Speaker 1>The they is the mob, and that also meant Sunny

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Liston had already made job.

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:27.919
<v Speaker 9>And still after coming out of prison, he attracted mob

0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:31.920
<v Speaker 9>figures who wanted to help his boxing career and make

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:35.240
<v Speaker 9>money off in at the same time, and Listen began

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:36.880
<v Speaker 9>to rise in the ranks.

0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:40.399
<v Speaker 1>Sonny Liston worked collections for the mafia as they waited

0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 1>for his fight career to take off.

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:46.320
<v Speaker 9>He was a enforcer for the Saint Louis mob, a

0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:49.240
<v Speaker 9>leg breaker and a fearsome guy.

0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:52.160
<v Speaker 5>You know when they say a leg breaker, Listen actually

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:54.320
<v Speaker 5>would break the leg with his fists. He would he

0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:57.600
<v Speaker 5>would stretch your leg across two chairs and punch the

0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 5>shinbone and break it. He was known for kicking cop

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:04.000
<v Speaker 5>of acid. He beat a cop inality one time, took

0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 5>his gun and walked away, just left and land there.

0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 5>So then and then didn't he run handing on a

0:28:09.560 --> 0:28:11.200
<v Speaker 5>yellow sweater. Papers is looking for a negro on a

0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:15.239
<v Speaker 5>yellow sweater. That's how he found it. He didn't take

0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:15.560
<v Speaker 5>it off.

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 1>You see why my pops couldn't help but love him.

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Sonny Liston's hands were so large fifteen inches he needed

0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:27.320
<v Speaker 1>custom made boxing gloves. When he sparred, he fought two

0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:31.119
<v Speaker 1>and three men at a time. Sonny Liston broke bones

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:34.000
<v Speaker 1>in the ring. He had no pity or human feeling

0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:36.920
<v Speaker 1>about anyone who stepped in the ring with him. Sunny

0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Listen was absolutely merciless. Also, Liston famously hated the press.

0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:47.720
<v Speaker 1>While young Cassius Clay took his inspiration from pro wrestling,

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Liston said of himself.

0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:52.960
<v Speaker 4>A prize fight is like a cowboy movie that has

0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:53.440
<v Speaker 4>to be a.

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 5>Good guy and the bad guy.

0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Only in my cowboy movie, the bad guy always win.

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Good to his word, Liston did win. He became the

0:29:04.480 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 1>heavyweight champion of the World in nineteen sixty two, and

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:11.440
<v Speaker 1>for those who don't know boxing's history, this early sixties

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.280
<v Speaker 1>marked a new era for the sport, mostly due to

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:18.040
<v Speaker 1>the entrance of one man, Muhammad al Lee, then known

0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 1>as Cassius Clay.

0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:26.120
<v Speaker 9>Nobody took Cassius Clay seriously, especially the way Sonny Liston was.

0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:29.160
<v Speaker 9>I mean, just the smile of Cassius Clay made him

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 9>a different sort of person. Liston was the scowl, Clay

0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:35.160
<v Speaker 9>was the smile.

0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 1>And Clay's fast mouth talk did very little to impress

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:40.400
<v Speaker 1>anyone in the world of boxing.

0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 9>He attracted a lot of attention. Nobody, however, gave Clay

0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:47.280
<v Speaker 9>a chance against Liston.

0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Now from my pops, the list In Clay fight was

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 1>a moment when America revealed itself in terms of who

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 1>a person rooted for in the ring.

0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that was That was an interesting moment. First, a

0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:02.320
<v Speaker 5>lot of people wanted to shut Ali's mouth, Then an

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 5>equal to number of people wanted Ali to beat the criminal.

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:08.440
<v Speaker 5>So at that moment, they both were favored by one

0:30:08.600 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 5>faction of America or another.

0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:15.720
<v Speaker 1>For the boxing insiders, though they mostly believed that Cassius Clay.

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:20.360
<v Speaker 9>He seemed too lightweight to be a heavyweight champion, and

0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:24.880
<v Speaker 9>people just took him as a bragger. The sports writers

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:28.280
<v Speaker 9>in the black and the White press just felt he

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 9>was a bit of a buffoon.

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Cassius Clay did not act the way any professional fighter

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:38.680
<v Speaker 1>was expected to act, especially a black boxer. Clay was brash, disrespectful,

0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:43.400
<v Speaker 1>he talked over white reporters. What really upset many folks

0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 1>black and white was how Casius Clay was a new

0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 1>sort of proud black man.

0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:52.720
<v Speaker 5>He was a shit talker that was considered poor sportsmanship,

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 5>and it was like it was frowned on as calling

0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.720
<v Speaker 5>unnecessary attention to yourself, you know. So, so he came with,

0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:03.200
<v Speaker 5>oh I'm so pretty all that, guys. The people liked

0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:05.560
<v Speaker 5>it at first, then he just kept on doing and

0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:08.840
<v Speaker 5>then the people in the barbershops would turn on him.

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Where black men gathered, the talk often turned to boxing,

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:17.200
<v Speaker 1>and Cassius Clay and Sonny Listing Liston's fight skills were admired,

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 1>but the man was hard to love. While Cassius Clay

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 1>was new in the fight game and was fast, but

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>just as cocky and always telling the world how pretty

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:29.760
<v Speaker 1>he was. For the workaday men of the era, regardless

0:31:29.760 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 1>of race, talk like that made him hard to love

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.520
<v Speaker 1>for his own reasons. The champ Sonny Listen wouldn't ever

0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.840
<v Speaker 1>agree to fight the new Lippy contender, So in order

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 1>to get his chance at a title fight.

0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 9>Cassius Clay has to follow Listen around. Listen just doesn't

0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 9>take him seriously, but Cassius Clay tracks him down, ridicules

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:54.760
<v Speaker 9>him in public shows no respect.

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Cassius Clay showed up whenever and wherever he could find

0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Sonny Listing. Then he'd mock Listen to his face as

0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 1>Clay's young fans laughed at the spectacle. Cashus Clay knew

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 1>one sure way he could get a fight was to

0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:12.520
<v Speaker 1>piss off Sonny Listen. No one else thought that was

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:16.280
<v Speaker 1>a good idea. It worked, though, Sonny Liston agreed to

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>a title fight in Miami in the spring of sixty four.

0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:24.200
<v Speaker 1>This first title fight tells us a great deal about

0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 1>where all Lee is going to go, both inside and

0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>outside the ring. Not only that, it also almost mirrors

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the events of the Rumble in the Jungle, and all

0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Lee said as much to the legendary sports broadcaster Howard

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Cosell in an interview in the days just before he

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:44.600
<v Speaker 1>stepped into the ring for the Rumble in the Jungle.

0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:47.840
<v Speaker 4>This present fight with George Foreman is only a reflection

0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:49.560
<v Speaker 4>on my past fight with Sonny Liston.

0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.760
<v Speaker 1>There was one other key parallel for the two title fights.

0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:56.240
<v Speaker 9>And they thought he was going to be killed in

0:32:56.280 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 9>the ring.

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:08.680
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen sixty four, Cassius Klay faces Sunny Liston in

0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 1>a championship bout in Miami, Florida. In nineteen seventy four,

0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Muhammad Ali faces George Foreman in a championship bout in

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Kinshasa's Zaiir to Muhammad Ali the boxer in both fights,

0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 1>it was one story, one long fight to regain his crown,

0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 1>But he was two very different men in nineteen sixty

0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 1>four and nineteen seventy four. He changed in those ten years,

0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:37.080
<v Speaker 1>just as the whole world would change dramatically in many

0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:41.160
<v Speaker 1>ways thanks to Ali. In Norman Mahler's book The Fight,

0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:44.640
<v Speaker 1>the author focused on the value of emotion to young

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Casshiu's clay.

0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 10>Part of Ali's strength in the ring was fidelity to

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.160
<v Speaker 10>his mood. If when speaking to the press, a harsh

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:53.840
<v Speaker 10>and hysterical tone intoed his voice as easily as other

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:56.800
<v Speaker 10>men would light a cigarette. He was never frantic in

0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:59.040
<v Speaker 10>the ring, at least not since the fight with Liston

0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:01.880
<v Speaker 10>in Mya in nineteen sixty four.

0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 1>There were many men who were integral to Casius Clay's rise,

0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:12.319
<v Speaker 1>like his trainer Angelo Dundee, who will meet later. But

0:34:12.600 --> 0:34:16.520
<v Speaker 1>few were more colorful or more ever present than his cornerman,

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 1>Drew Bundini Brown. He was like a second heart.

0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:24.840
<v Speaker 5>True.

0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:29.440
<v Speaker 9>Bundini Brown was a guy who came out of the

0:34:29.480 --> 0:34:33.080
<v Speaker 9>boxing world. I mean he hung around boxing, He hung

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:37.920
<v Speaker 9>around nightlife. He hooks up with Muhammad Ali early on

0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:43.239
<v Speaker 9>and it helps Aali challenge the accepted ways that a

0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:45.560
<v Speaker 9>black champion should behave.

0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:47.480
<v Speaker 6>And I got to hang out with him a little bit.

0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 6>He was a very fascinating guy.

0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:53.480
<v Speaker 1>That's Gary Stromberg. He's a huge fan of the fight game.

0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:55.400
<v Speaker 1>And also I.

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.840
<v Speaker 6>Did the public relations for festival in Zaire.

0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 1>And he recalls well his time spent with and near

0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 1>Bundini Brown. It was self evident Bundini loved Ali.

0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:09.759
<v Speaker 6>I got to watch it and that was really impactful

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 6>to me to watch how much he loved him. He

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.319
<v Speaker 6>loved him like a father, you know. I got to

0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.239
<v Speaker 6>go to training a couple of times and watching Bundini

0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:21.719
<v Speaker 6>watch Ali take punches, he suffered for it was like

0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:25.560
<v Speaker 6>a father watching his son. If Ali said something that

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:30.439
<v Speaker 6>was hurtful or somebody was insulting Ali or in any

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:34.879
<v Speaker 6>kind of situation that was impactful to Ali, Bundini would

0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:37.920
<v Speaker 6>get emotional about it, and if he would cry, I

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:39.479
<v Speaker 6>thought he was a remarkable guy.

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:43.759
<v Speaker 1>Bondini Brown was not only Ali's cornerman and his hype man.

0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:46.840
<v Speaker 5>He was like your own personal cheerleader. And he was

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:49.799
<v Speaker 5>a trainer. He worked with Angelo Dundee, but he was

0:35:49.840 --> 0:35:51.280
<v Speaker 5>like a psychological coach.

0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Bondini Brown was also the man who first got Ali

0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:59.879
<v Speaker 1>spouting poetry and dropping his famous bars, his taunting couple

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.400
<v Speaker 1>about his opponents. As Jonathan Ig notes.

0:36:03.200 --> 0:36:07.000
<v Speaker 11>Bundini was Ali's muse in a way, and his tormentor

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:10.120
<v Speaker 11>and his best friend. And you know, Ali was a

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 11>great rhymer, but Bundini was better and really helped him

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 11>polish his act.

0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:18.520
<v Speaker 1>The memorable taunts of Bundini gave more sting to all

0:36:18.560 --> 0:36:21.359
<v Speaker 1>these punches in the ring. It's like my pop used

0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:21.759
<v Speaker 1>to tell me.

0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 5>Bundini Brown he kept Ali focused on on hurting people.

0:36:26.600 --> 0:36:28.560
<v Speaker 5>Ali is mean, but I don't think I don't think

0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:31.640
<v Speaker 5>he has a natural desire to hurt people. And Bundini

0:36:31.719 --> 0:36:34.279
<v Speaker 5>Brown knew he could direct that meanness.

0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 9>He really went along with all these poetry recitations.

0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:43.960
<v Speaker 5>Say like a butterflas thing like the you gotta be

0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:46.760
<v Speaker 5>a damn food to get in it ring with me. Rumble,

0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:50.200
<v Speaker 5>young man, rumble, and they would say it face, face

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:52.400
<v Speaker 5>to face. It would be hollering. That shit. That was

0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:54.400
<v Speaker 5>that was fun, that was entertainment.

0:36:55.880 --> 0:36:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Keep in mind, this was all new. The idea of

0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 1>an influencer was decades away. MTV didn't even exist. No

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:06.320
<v Speaker 1>one talked about themselves the way Ali did in nineteen

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 1>sixty four. Love it or hate it, the people ate

0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:13.400
<v Speaker 1>it up. And so when young Cashus Clay prepares to

0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:18.279
<v Speaker 1>fight Sunny Listen, Bundini Brown knows his fighter needs the

0:37:18.280 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 1>sort of energy that only comes from good hype. At

0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:27.800
<v Speaker 1>the Fighter's Way In, separated by police and boxing promoters,

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 1>the two fighters, dressed in their satin boxing robes, square off.

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Young Casius Clay shouts at listen over the heads of cops, Hey, Sonny.

0:37:36.840 --> 0:37:39.480
<v Speaker 4>You ain't nothing, You ain't got a chance.

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna dance. Then Cashus Clay tells the gathered press.

0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 4>I predict that somebody will die to not a rightside

0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:48.000
<v Speaker 4>from shop.

0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:52.600
<v Speaker 9>Clay just uses the way in in a way that

0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 9>no fighter had to just create havoc and get to listen. Psychologically,

0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:03.120
<v Speaker 9>he and Bundini are yelling and screaming at the way

0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:07.920
<v Speaker 9>in Rumble young Man, Rumble and roaring, and it just

0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:10.080
<v Speaker 9>people think that Clay has gone nuts.

0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Cashus Clay is so fired up most of the boxing

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:17.880
<v Speaker 1>press believe the young fighters trying to mask his fears

0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 1>of facing sunny Liston.

0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 9>But then when he gets back to the dressing room,

0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:26.719
<v Speaker 9>they take his temperatuist pulse rate and it goes down immediately,

0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 9>so people have concluded but since then that this was calculated.

0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:35.040
<v Speaker 9>He wasn't afraid. He was running a game on listen,

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:37.239
<v Speaker 9>essentially to undermine his confidence.

0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:41.400
<v Speaker 1>You see, Cashus Clay starts to fight his opponents inside

0:38:41.440 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 1>their minds, long before they ever step inside the ring.

0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:51.719
<v Speaker 1>The night of their title fight finally arrives, the stars

0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:55.160
<v Speaker 1>gather in Miami. The world turns its attention to see

0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:58.879
<v Speaker 1>if there will be a new heavyweight champion crown and

0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:03.440
<v Speaker 1>to see if Clay is all talk or not there

0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:07.240
<v Speaker 1>with him. Cassius Clay has another boxing legend at his side,

0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:11.880
<v Speaker 1>his trainer, Angelo Dundee. He runs a historic boxing gym

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:15.040
<v Speaker 1>down in Miami Beach Dundee takes an interest in the

0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:19.880
<v Speaker 1>young Olympic champ and helps turn Casius Clay into a

0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:24.719
<v Speaker 1>true contender. Now, before the ring bell dings for the

0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:29.680
<v Speaker 1>World Heavyweight Championship bout, Dundee knows his guy is ready,

0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>and so on February twenty fifth, nineteen sixty four, Casius

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Clay steps into the ring to face Sunny Listing.

0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:44.560
<v Speaker 9>It opens with Clay just peppering Listing with jabs and

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:48.480
<v Speaker 9>right crosses. I mean he's moving and grooving, and Listing

0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:52.120
<v Speaker 9>is you need to look older and older and clumsier,

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.920
<v Speaker 9>which is very surprising because this is a very deadly fighter.

0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Rounds one through four are close as far as the

0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:05.000
<v Speaker 1>judge's scoring, and the audience is a gay stunned by

0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 1>how Cashius Clay is cool as a cucumber in a

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:10.719
<v Speaker 1>bowl of hot sauce, to quote my man MCA. Now,

0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:13.879
<v Speaker 1>in these first four rounds, Ali keeps the upper hand

0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 1>battling against this villain that just about any sane man

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.760
<v Speaker 1>would fear, and then something unexpected happens.

0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:25.279
<v Speaker 9>It's only in the fifth round that the bout is

0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:30.719
<v Speaker 9>in doubt because something gets in Cassius's eye and he

0:40:30.840 --> 0:40:32.240
<v Speaker 9>can't see very well.

0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:36.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a caustic substance. It stings and it burns. Clay

0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:38.359
<v Speaker 1>can't see much of anything, so.

0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:43.040
<v Speaker 9>He says to his trainer, Angelo Dundee, take off the gloves.

0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:43.759
<v Speaker 9>I can't see.

0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:44.879
<v Speaker 5>Cut my gloves off.

0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:47.600
<v Speaker 4>I want to prove to the world there's dirty work

0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:48.319
<v Speaker 4>of foot.

0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:51.520
<v Speaker 1>But Dangelo Dundee tells his fighter mid round, whoa, whoa,

0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:54.080
<v Speaker 1>back up, baby, Come on now, this is for the title.

0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:54.839
<v Speaker 5>What are you doing?

0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:55.399
<v Speaker 8>Sit down?

0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Meanwhile, Dundee still needs to figure out what is in

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.120
<v Speaker 1>his boxer's eyes as Dundee tails it, so I get

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:05.000
<v Speaker 1>him down, I get to sponge and I pour the

0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:08.120
<v Speaker 1>water into his eyes, trying to cleanse whatever's there. But

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.600
<v Speaker 1>before I did that, I put my pinky in the

0:41:10.640 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 1>eye and I put it into my eye. It burned

0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:17.880
<v Speaker 1>like hell. There was something caustic in both eyes. Dundee

0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:21.160
<v Speaker 1>also knows if Cash's Clay doesn't come out of his corner,

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.040
<v Speaker 1>the fight will be called.

0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 9>So Dundee says, you're going out there. You just keep moving.

0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Dundee shoves his fighter back out into the ring to

0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:32.360
<v Speaker 1>face list it half blinded.

0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:34.480
<v Speaker 9>By the end of the round, it clears and in

0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:38.359
<v Speaker 9>the next round of sixth Clay is hitting him from

0:41:38.400 --> 0:41:43.600
<v Speaker 9>all angles and Listening cannot respond, and the fight is stopped.

0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:52.560
<v Speaker 1>The ref announces the new heavyweight champion of the world.

0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 1>Cash's Clay runs to the ropes and shouts at the

0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:56.960
<v Speaker 1>press and the news cameras.

0:41:57.200 --> 0:42:00.320
<v Speaker 5>I shook up the wild. Ah, I shook up the world.

0:42:01.160 --> 0:42:02.480
<v Speaker 5>I'm taking the world.

0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:03.480
<v Speaker 10>Ah.

0:42:03.560 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 5>Pretty, I'm a bad man.

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:08.359
<v Speaker 1>He's just twenty two years old.

0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:13.160
<v Speaker 9>Cassius Clay becomes the heavyweight champion of the world and

0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:18.400
<v Speaker 9>becomes a major cultural and political figure as a result.

0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Sonny Liston was a big reason boxing was synonymous with

0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:29.359
<v Speaker 1>the mob in the early sixties. He didn't even try

0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:32.960
<v Speaker 1>to hide it. Liston was also why folks shouted that

0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:36.360
<v Speaker 1>the fix was in when he faced a young Cassius

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:40.600
<v Speaker 1>Clay a second time in nineteen sixty five in Lewiston, Maine.

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:43.919
<v Speaker 1>That fight ended in the first round when Ali threw

0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:46.840
<v Speaker 1>what he called an anchor punch that caught Liston off guard.

0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Others referred to it as the phantom punch since no

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:54.160
<v Speaker 1>one really saw it. What they did see was Listen

0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:56.520
<v Speaker 1>fall down on his back. When he struggled to get

0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:59.480
<v Speaker 1>back up, he rolled over and was counted out to

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.319
<v Speaker 1>this day, Folks like my pop, they won't let it go.

0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:05.000
<v Speaker 5>First of all, he didn't beat Saint Listen. That was

0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:08.160
<v Speaker 5>the first I've seen fixed flights in my life, and

0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 5>that was a fixed fight. I don't give it dwn

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 5>what anybody says. Ali never knocked out one more person

0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:15.120
<v Speaker 5>with one punch in his whole career, and the one

0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:18.920
<v Speaker 5>he did was Sunny Listen. No, and the odds are

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:20.680
<v Speaker 5>nine to one on this inside.

0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:24.360
<v Speaker 1>That's a tempting payoff for a mobster looking to fix

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:27.840
<v Speaker 1>a fight, which is why, as Mark Krigel points out.

0:43:27.920 --> 0:43:30.319
<v Speaker 12>The fixed fights were not a rumor, was a way

0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:34.480
<v Speaker 12>of doing business. But it also becomes part of the

0:43:34.520 --> 0:43:38.799
<v Speaker 12>folklore of boxing. And I think that the role of

0:43:38.840 --> 0:43:42.719
<v Speaker 12>the mob was really not unlike Bud Schulberg's were on

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:46.279
<v Speaker 12>the Waterfront, whatever that famous speech is, you know, that's

0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:46.920
<v Speaker 12>pretty much.

0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 1>How it worked. In the film On the Waterfront, Marlon

0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Brando plays Terry Molloy, a former boxer turned doc worker.

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Rod Steiger plays his brother Charlie, a gangster who works

0:43:57.920 --> 0:44:00.879
<v Speaker 1>for the mob boss and fix his fights. In that

0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:05.120
<v Speaker 1>famous taxi cab scene, Terry tells his gangster Big brother

0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Charlie that he should have looked out for him, acting

0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:12.439
<v Speaker 1>his ass off. Brando says, you don't understand. I could

0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.640
<v Speaker 1>have had class, I could have been a contender. I

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:19.319
<v Speaker 1>could have been somebody instead of a bum, which is

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:23.080
<v Speaker 1>what I am. Let's face it, it was you, Charlie.

0:44:24.560 --> 0:44:27.640
<v Speaker 1>That scene was still resonating in the culture when Sonny

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:30.719
<v Speaker 1>Liston looked like he took a dive, so it was

0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:34.920
<v Speaker 1>easy for boxing fans to shout the fight's fixed. And

0:44:35.200 --> 0:44:38.240
<v Speaker 1>due to this shadow cast over the two Listen fights,

0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:41.919
<v Speaker 1>it would take Casius Clay a long time to shake

0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the whispers that he was an illegitimate champ. In fact,

0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:48.880
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't be until the Rumble in the Jungle in

0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Zyere that that kind of talk fully stopped. But for now,

0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:57.400
<v Speaker 1>legitimate or not, Ali was the heavyweight champion of the

0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:01.200
<v Speaker 1>world and the stage was set for new phase as

0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:05.480
<v Speaker 1>the people's champ and the boxer who did not want

0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:13.279
<v Speaker 1>to fight. On the next episode of Rumble.

0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:16.560
<v Speaker 3>Suddenly he's like rubbing shoulders with Miles, and he's meeting

0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:18.320
<v Speaker 3>Monk and all these dudes.

0:45:18.440 --> 0:45:21.760
<v Speaker 9>This guy is dangerous. He's speaking his mind.

0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:24.840
<v Speaker 4>I know where I'm going and I know the truth,

0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:27.560
<v Speaker 4>and I don't have to be what you want me.

0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:30.080
<v Speaker 5>To be as black power shit. You know, like this

0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:32.920
<v Speaker 5>is some more shit to fuck with people about.

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:39.960
<v Speaker 8>Rumble is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:43.719
<v Speaker 8>Rumble is written and hosted by Zaren Burnett. The third

0:45:44.360 --> 0:45:48.800
<v Speaker 8>produced and directed by Julia Chriscau. Sound design and scoring

0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 8>by Jesse Niswanger. Original music by Jordan Manley and TJ. Merritt.

0:45:55.080 --> 0:45:59.920
<v Speaker 8>Our senior producer is Amelia Brock. Series concept by Gary Stromberg.

0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:05.319
<v Speaker 8>Executive producers are Jason English, Sean t Toone, Gary Stromberg,

0:46:05.640 --> 0:46:10.840
<v Speaker 8>Virginia Prescott, L C. Crowley, and Brandon Barr. Production manager

0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:17.040
<v Speaker 8>Daisy Church, fact checker Savannah Hugley. Additional production by Claire Keating.

0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:21.760
<v Speaker 8>Legal services provided by Canoel han Lee PC. Casting director

0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:27.120
<v Speaker 8>Julia Chriscau. Episode one cast Abraham Amka as Mohammad Ali,

0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:32.200
<v Speaker 8>Jonah Weston as Norman Mailer, John Washington as Sonny Liston.

0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:37.200
<v Speaker 8>Casting support services provided by Breakdown Express. Special thanks to

0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:40.480
<v Speaker 8>Lewis Ehrenberg. Check out his book Rumble in the Jungle.

0:46:40.480 --> 0:46:44.000
<v Speaker 8>It's a great resource. Also thanks to Jonathan I for

0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:48.440
<v Speaker 8>his book Ali A Life, and finally, thanks to Zarenz

0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:52.040
<v Speaker 8>pops Zeke who grounds this material like no one else.

0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:55.480
<v Speaker 8>If you like the show, let us know, like subscribe,

0:46:55.680 --> 0:46:59.520
<v Speaker 8>leave five star reviews. It really helps. Also check out

0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:07.399
<v Speaker 8>our show note for a full list of reference materials.