Speaker 1: Some listeners may find this content disturbing. This episode discusses
Speaker 1: domestic abuse as well as suicide. Please proceed with caution.
Speaker 1: This is Taylor Armstrong in her own words.
Speaker 2: Hi guys, it's celebrity mentor Jennifer Fessler back with you
Speaker 2: on ID Part two today. I am so honored because
Speaker 2: we have so many amazing people come and show their
Speaker 2: journey to finding love in their chapter two and my
Speaker 2: guest today really went through the fire to find her
Speaker 2: second love. She is resilient, she's an advocate, and she's inspiring.
Speaker 2: She's the author of Hiding from Reality, my story of love,
Speaker 2: loss and finding the courage. You know here from the
Speaker 2: Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Orange County. Her name
Speaker 2: some of you may know the name and know the
Speaker 2: woman is Taylor Armstrong. We were so excited to have
Speaker 2: you here, and I was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: love Taylor. We got to know each other, I guess
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, right, We met in Orange County, Yes,
Speaker 2: And I just remember maybe I just started being on Housewives,
Speaker 2: and you were so warm and lovely and friendly, and
Speaker 2: so I was very excited that you're coming on.
Speaker 3: We had drinks at the Monarch Beach Hotel.
Speaker 4: Yes, with Tamra and Emily. Emily, Yes, one of my
Speaker 4: friends was in town.
Speaker 3: Yes, y, Yeah, it was really neat.
Speaker 4: She's too sweet to go on New Jersey. I'm worried locas.
Speaker 4: Looka's talking.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, New Jersey is a scary place to be.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a friend of a housewife and listen, here's
Speaker 2: just like the truth of it. Like I've I've been
Speaker 2: a fan of everything Housewives since the inception, and I've
Speaker 2: known you through the TV and you know, obviously I
Speaker 2: have followed you and some of the stuff that you've
Speaker 2: been through and it is not easy and or you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to speak for you, but I think
Speaker 2: it is so ad and I think it sounds like,
Speaker 2: especially right now, you're really sharing your story and that
Speaker 2: can't be so easy to do, or maybe for you
Speaker 2: it is easy to do. I don't know, but you
Speaker 2: know you have been through it, my friend, I have.
Speaker 3: Been through a lot, that's sure.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, a lot of other people have approached me and
Speaker 4: shared their stories with me over the years, and the
Speaker 4: numbers are vast. I think, actually the numbers are so
Speaker 4: much more vast than the reported numbers just because of
Speaker 4: the shame and the stigma and everything that goes along
Speaker 4: with with domestic abuse.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So but I am approached daily by people telling me
Speaker 4: their stories and it's heart wrenching.
Speaker 3: It was just so I don't know, it's just like
Speaker 3: a viewer.
Speaker 2: It was really overwhelming, and it was like when you
Speaker 2: were you know, quote unquote out it. I don't know
Speaker 2: what we're we refer to it as now and I
Speaker 2: don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but just to
Speaker 2: know that you were doing this show and everything that
Speaker 2: comes along with that, and then dealing with what you
Speaker 2: were dealing with. So but okay, so I do part
Speaker 2: two we kind of listen to was like to start
Speaker 2: with part one. Yeah, so, can you tell me a
Speaker 2: little bit about how you met your first husband, Russell,
Speaker 2: what that was like, and what your marriage was like,
Speaker 2: maybe even at the beginning, give us a little bit
Speaker 2: of background.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I do tell my story frequently. I do
Speaker 4: a lot of public speaking, So I'm an open book.
Speaker 4: Anything you want to talk about. I love sharing it
Speaker 4: mainly because it is helping all those other people that
Speaker 4: are out there that may not realize that they're in
Speaker 4: a domestic violent situation or that they're seeing some red flags,
Speaker 4: but they're questioning themselves.
Speaker 3: So to go back to my initial.
Speaker 4: Relationship, we met in a restaurant in Beverly Hills at
Speaker 4: the Four Seasons actually, and it started off great. It
Speaker 4: was very much fireworks in the beginning as a blind
Speaker 4: dat are you just We actually were both waiting on
Speaker 4: a table. I was waiting on a friend. He was
Speaker 4: with a group, and we're both waiting on tables and
Speaker 4: just started talking. Okay, so but yeah, I mean, it
Speaker 4: was just it was very much fireworks in the beginning,
Speaker 4: but there were red flags literally from from the beginning.
Speaker 3: For the first day of state. Please do tell our
Speaker 3: very first day.
Speaker 4: Yes, he took me to a restaurant where I was
Speaker 4: a regular and so I knew everybody that worked there, obviously,
Speaker 4: and it was Valentine's Day and I ordered and then
Speaker 4: he said, did you sleep with that waiter?
Speaker 3: And I thought, what I mean, I slept with anybody there?
Speaker 4: And he said, well, I could tell by the way
Speaker 4: you were looking at him when you ordered, And I thought,
Speaker 4: what are you talking about?
Speaker 3: But I mean, so those little red flags.
Speaker 4: When I do public speaking, especially at universities, I try
Speaker 4: to talk to young people about this, you know those
Speaker 4: when you start to think that was kind of weird.
Speaker 3: Well, it was weird, and then I just let it
Speaker 3: keep going.
Speaker 4: And I thought, oh, he must just like me a lot,
Speaker 4: because I would talk myself into because I liked him
Speaker 4: so much, you know that. I just thought, Oh, it's
Speaker 4: because he likes me so much, he doesn't want me
Speaker 4: to talk to other guys. And then it just builds.
Speaker 4: The jealousy builds, the control builds over time, you know.
Speaker 4: And I had a textile company at the time in downtown, LA,
Speaker 4: and he started saying, I don't want you to work.
Speaker 4: You shouldn't have to work. I'll take care of you.
Speaker 4: And it felt very night in Shining Armor. At first,
Speaker 4: you know, I thought he said, downtown's dangerous. I don't
Speaker 4: want you going down there, and so I gave up
Speaker 4: my company. And so that night in Shining Armor effect
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, now I gave up my own
Speaker 4: financial capabilities.
Speaker 3: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Okay, So just because it's like overwhelming, like just even
Speaker 2: the fact that he on your first date, how old were.
Speaker 3: You, Oh my gosh, let's see thirty four. Okay, it
Speaker 3: just seems like a lot.
Speaker 2: So what was it about him though when you first
Speaker 2: met him that you found so appealing.
Speaker 4: An interesting attribute of abusers is they can be very madic, charismatic,
Speaker 4: you know, life of the party. And I think that's
Speaker 4: why when the abuse all started to come out, a
Speaker 4: lot of people were like, what he like? He would
Speaker 4: never be, never do that, Like, he's this charismatic guy,
Speaker 4: and it's so common.
Speaker 3: I hear it, it is so common.
Speaker 2: I interviewed someone in the past who was married to
Speaker 2: the Wolf of Wall Street. My name is Nadine, and
Speaker 2: she has we're not gonna we don't need to get
Speaker 2: into that now, but she has such a similar story
Speaker 2: about how charismatic. I made a movie about him. Right,
Speaker 2: he was right, and in the end it was I
Speaker 2: wasn't good.
Speaker 3: Go on. So you met him, he was charismatic, verytive.
Speaker 4: Yes, he had that knight and shining armor kind of
Speaker 4: feel to the whole thing, like being wanting to take
Speaker 4: care of me and all of that, which felt great.
Speaker 4: And I grew up without a father, so the whole
Speaker 4: I could get myself into a position where having a
Speaker 4: man say he wants to take care of me is
Speaker 4: like extra love.
Speaker 3: Bombing for me, yeah, love bombing.
Speaker 4: So yeah, just because that's something I missed in my childhood.
Speaker 4: And so that as we went forward, you know, it
Speaker 4: was I want you to sell your company, and then
Speaker 4: you should be a mom because you have so much
Speaker 4: love to give. Be a shame for you not to
Speaker 4: be a mom. Did you want to be a mom?
Speaker 4: I was kind of on the fence. I thought, I
Speaker 4: I'll either be a business person or I'll be a mom.
Speaker 4: I wasn't going to try to do both. And so
Speaker 4: then I had now had let go of my company,
Speaker 4: so I thought, okay.
Speaker 3: You know, then the mom role feels great.
Speaker 4: I can be a stay at home mom and really
Speaker 4: be devoted to that role in my life. And so,
Speaker 4: of course biggest blessing in my life my daughter, Kennedy.
Speaker 4: But then that was really another form of control because
Speaker 4: now he's taken away my financial capabilities and now I
Speaker 4: have his child. So the walls, even though I was
Speaker 4: so overjoyed having Kennedy, the walls were closing in, you know,
Speaker 4: with the amount of control he had over my life.
Speaker 4: And shortly after that, you know, the jealousy was continuing,
Speaker 4: and then there would be some of the just like
Speaker 4: criticisms like your hair is too long, your hair's too short,
Speaker 4: your dress is too long, your dress is too short.
Speaker 4: You know, there was never a right length of a dress,
Speaker 4: length of the hair.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm just using those as I've met before.
Speaker 4: You get what I'm saying. You laugh too much, you
Speaker 4: don't laugh enough. You talk to people at my business
Speaker 4: dinners too much. Then the next time I would talk less,
Speaker 4: and then he would say, oh, you didn't talk to
Speaker 4: anyone because you're stuck up and you think you're too
Speaker 4: good for everyone. So it was just constantly like managing
Speaker 4: it with something and managing it. And you know, I said,
Speaker 4: when I watched season one of Housewives, I was I
Speaker 4: literally was watching me thinking who is that person? Because
Speaker 4: I had become such a shell of myself, being afraid
Speaker 4: to have my big personality or you know, laugh too much,
Speaker 4: and so I really was watching me thinking, I don't
Speaker 4: even know who I am. And one of my very
Speaker 4: long time friends called me and he said, I don't
Speaker 4: know who that girl is on that show, but it's
Speaker 4: not you. During when it was happening, yeah, when it
Speaker 4: was fair it was yeah, And he just said, I
Speaker 4: don't know what's going on in your life, but that
Speaker 4: is nothing like your personality.
Speaker 2: So I was just sitting here with you and getting
Speaker 2: to know you. And I also as a viewer, I
Speaker 2: feel the egaisact same way, exact same way. Like it
Speaker 2: wasn't you didn't being honest, you didn't seem like a
Speaker 2: real person like you just it was all It felt
Speaker 2: like it was all just show and putting up, you know,
Speaker 2: painting this picture in a way. Yes, And I want
Speaker 2: to talk about you starting the show, but I just
Speaker 2: have to ask you this. It's so funny if you
Speaker 2: felt like this. So because my daughter has said this
Speaker 2: to me and it freaked me out, I don't think
Speaker 2: she feels like this anymore, but that she sort of
Speaker 2: likes She's like, I kind of like guys that are jealous.
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I want them to be a little jealous, like it
Speaker 2: shows me like that they really like me.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Now, I mean there are degrees of everything. But did
Speaker 2: you feel like that at first? Like I like that
Speaker 2: he's a little.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I don't like it's because he's so crazy
Speaker 4: about me, you know, and that comes from my lack
Speaker 4: of self esteem and lack of yah of self confidence
Speaker 4: to be like, oh, someone likes me enough that they care.
Speaker 3: That was my daughter too. She didn't.
Speaker 2: It's not about her, but she she want her boyfriend
Speaker 2: so badly in high school. Didn't hapen even through college,
Speaker 2: and she felt like that she wanted a boy to
Speaker 2: care about her that much. And it's so that is
Speaker 2: just so skewed and scary, right, Like, you know, we
Speaker 2: all have a little bit of the jealousy thing, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's a normal level of jealousy if
Speaker 4: you have an overly flirtatious partner. I don't have a
Speaker 4: flirtatious bone in my body. It's just not who I am.
Speaker 4: I don't blame anyone that does. I just just not
Speaker 4: part of my personality. But I also don't have a
Speaker 4: jealous bone in my body. So for me, the whole
Speaker 4: thing is like unfathomable because I'm just I'm not jealous
Speaker 4: and I'm not flirtatious. So all of his accusations were
Speaker 4: completely unfounded. And the things that he like, thinking I'm
Speaker 4: flirting with a waiter would it was just like I
Speaker 4: just looked at him in order. There was nothing more
Speaker 4: to it. And so it was a little things like
Speaker 4: that in the beginning that I certainly should have recognized,
Speaker 4: but I didn't want to. So that's what we do.
Speaker 4: We run right by all the red flags when we
Speaker 4: want to stay with the person that we're with. And
Speaker 4: then then the things that really started to happen being with
Speaker 4: him that started getting really weird as far as the
Speaker 4: jealousy goes, is the he started recording me. And so
Speaker 4: the first time I found a tape recording device, I
Speaker 4: was at my desk in the house and my printer
Speaker 4: had stopped working. So I crawled under my desk to
Speaker 4: unplug it and replug it. And I was backing out
Speaker 4: from underneath the desk and I looked up and I
Speaker 4: saw this recorder, a little small recording device like you
Speaker 4: would use in college in a class, and it was
Speaker 4: hanging my picture hooks underneath my desk. And took me
Speaker 4: a minute because I just thought, you know, it was
Speaker 4: so out of place that I couldn't put my finger
Speaker 4: on what it was. And so I grabbed it and
Speaker 4: I started listening to it, and it was me, and
Speaker 4: he had been recording me.
Speaker 3: It was just before after the show. This was before
Speaker 3: the show.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so you already know he's I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know what you want to like really acknowledge for your
Speaker 2: you want it's really acknowledged for yourself at this time.
Speaker 3: But oviously knew he was off.
Speaker 2: So the question that I had, and I think probably
Speaker 2: you get all the time now, is what was that
Speaker 2: like deciding to go on reality TV? The fact that
Speaker 2: he even like gave the go ahead for it is
Speaker 2: feel so shocking to me. The fact that you were
Speaker 2: not too scared of or maybe you were and you
Speaker 2: thought it would be helpful. Tell us like, how you
Speaker 2: got how did you get there?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Right? Well?
Speaker 4: When I decided to go on the show, and this
Speaker 4: is me in retrospect, I certainly wasn't aware of it
Speaker 4: at the time. You know, as we talked about he
Speaker 4: was very charismatic, and he was very narcissistic, and he
Speaker 4: thought everyone loved him, and so he definitely saw the
Speaker 4: show as an opportunity for him and from a business perspective,
Speaker 4: but it's also he just thought the world would fall
Speaker 4: in love with him. And needless to say, it was
Speaker 4: quite evident even in season one that people could tell
Speaker 4: there was something off there. But so he was thrilled
Speaker 4: for me to go on the show. I, as I
Speaker 4: was saying in retrospect. Wonder if if I thought, because
Speaker 4: there's a good version, there was a good version of him,
Speaker 4: like all abusers, I would say, and if I could
Speaker 4: keep him being the good person, the good version all
Speaker 4: the time. Well, he was good in public because he
Speaker 4: wanted to be the life of the party and be charismatic.
Speaker 4: So if you put a camera in our house, now
Speaker 4: you're in public again, right, So abuse doesn't happen as
Speaker 4: often in the restaurant or the mall. You know, it
Speaker 4: happens once you get behind closed doors.
Speaker 2: So Taylor, you think it was like it was almost
Speaker 2: like it made you feel safe to think that you
Speaker 2: guys were going to be on camera.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and at the same time, he's not going to
Speaker 4: hit me and take a risk that I'm going to
Speaker 4: have a bruise, you know, on camera. You know, he
Speaker 4: could easily have me just cover it up if it.
Speaker 3: Was just going to be at home.
Speaker 2: Or how long did the abuse start after you guys
Speaker 2: got married?
Speaker 3: The physical abuse?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was it was November and I had
Speaker 4: gave birth to Kennedy in February, So let's see November
Speaker 4: this in virginn So I was would have been five months.
Speaker 3: Pregnant six months pregnant.
Speaker 4: I was I was a little bit more pregnant than that,
Speaker 4: so it might be late November. And that was the
Speaker 4: first time that he ever choked me. We were getting
Speaker 4: ready to go to a charity event. Feel pregnant, mm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then obviously it just obviously it kept going. But
Speaker 2: it was how long after you had Kennedy before you
Speaker 2: got on the show.
Speaker 4: So I had Kennedy in February and we celebrated her
Speaker 4: fourth birthday in season one, so and that was let's see,
Speaker 4: we got she was born in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we went on Housewives twenty ten she was four.
Speaker 2: And it's just like, I can't even imagine how much
Speaker 2: had be I'd be swirling through your head and just
Speaker 2: knowing that he was he could he was abusive, and
Speaker 2: you now have cameras in your house, and how much
Speaker 2: you had to deal with cover up. I mean when
Speaker 2: the cameras went down, because I think for me they
Speaker 2: would go down. I don't know what the situation was
Speaker 2: back then, but you know they didn't maybe record on
Speaker 2: the weekends or what that was like.
Speaker 3: It must have been just idious. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, and you, of all people know the show is
Speaker 4: very anxiety inducing to begin with, having your friends fighting,
Speaker 4: you fighting, and you know, you don't know what you're
Speaker 4: what's going to pop up, you know, and what's going
Speaker 4: to spark something right, And.
Speaker 3: So I always had a little.
Speaker 4: I guess in is a terrible word, but of like
Speaker 4: Kyle getting ready getting to go home to her beautiful
Speaker 4: family life after a tough day of filming or a
Speaker 4: tough night of fighting with.
Speaker 3: That's a horrible word. I would feel the same way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, Lisa and you know, so they
Speaker 4: could go through the anxiety of the filming and then
Speaker 4: go home to have support, and for me, I would
Speaker 4: go through the anxiety of filming to what was actually
Speaker 4: scarier anxiety going home, not knowing what was going to
Speaker 4: happen next, and you know, and then you start replaying
Speaker 4: the tapes all the time of the words that they say.
Speaker 3: And for me, the.
Speaker 4: Physical abuse obviously is horrible, but the verbal abuse. Sometimes
Speaker 4: women will say to me, well, I don't know. I
Speaker 4: mean he yells at me and calls me names. I
Speaker 4: don't know if I'm being abused. And my response is,
Speaker 4: if you have to question yourself whether you're being abused
Speaker 4: or not, you are, and it's not okay for somebody
Speaker 4: to scream at you. Don't call you names, but those parts,
Speaker 4: those tapes that you replay. So I would be in
Speaker 4: Kennedy's playroom, coloring with her, playing dolls, whatever, but I
Speaker 4: wasn't really there because my mind was on what's going
Speaker 4: to happen tonight, or what happened last night, or what's
Speaker 4: going to set him off today? Or what all the
Speaker 4: horrible things he said to me a week ago? You know,
Speaker 4: it really robbed me of the years with Kennedy, of
Speaker 4: always just being on edge and fight or flight all
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 3: Did you have anyone like it?
Speaker 2: Just the whole stories is not I know, unfortunately the
Speaker 2: story of abuse is not so uncommon, but the story
Speaker 2: of somebody being on reality TV and having to deal
Speaker 2: with not only the pressures of that but the potential
Speaker 2: of being exposed and then it's just it is seems
Speaker 2: just so overwhelming, Tod. Do you have anyone that you
Speaker 2: a friend or somebody that you could trust during that
Speaker 2: time that knew what was going on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it definitely was, as you said, anxiety provoke ans.
Speaker 4: When when I wrote my book it's called Hiding from
Speaker 4: Reality because That's what I was trying to do, is
Speaker 4: hide my reality, of course from reality TV. So my
Speaker 4: assistant at the time, she lived in my house and
Speaker 4: she actually had known hers since she was born. Her
Speaker 4: mom was my cheerleading coach, and so she was there
Speaker 4: and knew, but she was afraid of him also, so
Speaker 4: even though she could be a support system for me,
Speaker 4: she wasn't going to jump in the middle of it.
Speaker 4: She's young, very young, yeah, yeah, early twenties. But she
Speaker 4: did she talk to her. Yeah, I could tell it
Speaker 4: to her. Yeah, she was great. He's still Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: I was on Worth her yesterday.
Speaker 3: Really yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, she's family, so yeah, she was definitely there.
Speaker 4: But I didn't want to talk to my mom about it.
Speaker 4: My mother's the sweetest lady, and I'm an only child,
Speaker 4: so I just knew it would destroy her. And also
Speaker 4: I didn't know what my mom's reaction would be if
Speaker 4: she would want to try to intervene, And I certainly
Speaker 4: didn't want that happening with him because he was very
Speaker 4: dangerous and I just didn't want her to get involved.
Speaker 2: How many see I can't even imagine, Like how many
Speaker 2: scenes did you have to cover up cruises or hold
Speaker 2: it together after something terrifying that happens, Like, how did
Speaker 2: you even I don't know how you kept it together?
Speaker 2: I mean how did you make it look like it
Speaker 2: wasn't happening, Because I remember when it came out, I
Speaker 2: was surprised as a viewer about it. So I wish
Speaker 2: you hadn't for your own sake. But you did a
Speaker 2: good job, I guess of keeping it quiet. I mean,
Speaker 2: did you have techniques around it?
Speaker 3: Was it? You know?
Speaker 2: Was it the makeup of the whole thing that you
Speaker 2: could hide your bruises or like talking to yourself getting
Speaker 2: yourself to a place where you could actually do this right.
Speaker 4: I think it was an escape for me because I
Speaker 4: would get to go be with the girls, and it
Speaker 4: wasn't like when I got home I was going to
Speaker 4: be drilled about who I had dinner with, you know,
Speaker 4: because he knew the cameras were there and that I
Speaker 4: was with the girls, And so it was almost like
Speaker 4: I would get to go enjoy my life without the
Speaker 4: scrutiny of him quizzing me when I got home.
Speaker 2: And how did the girls find out? Well, I remember
Speaker 2: Camille outed you or whatever however we want.
Speaker 4: To write with that, So Adriane and I were in
Speaker 4: Mommy and Me together when are like with our babies, right,
Speaker 4: And so she knew that I had challenges in my relationship.
Speaker 4: She didn't know the exact extent, but she would see me,
Speaker 4: you know, in the morning at Mommy and Me, you know,
Speaker 4: with upset or whatever, not with bruises or anything. But
Speaker 4: what I was going to say about the hiding things is.
Speaker 3: Abusers are very.
Speaker 4: Clever when it comes to abuse, especially when they know
Speaker 4: that you're going to be on television, right right, So
Speaker 4: one of his favorite tactics would be to grab me
Speaker 4: by one side of my head, my hair and then
Speaker 4: bang my other side of my head against things, so
Speaker 4: it's all in here so you can't obviously there's nothing visible.
Speaker 4: I tried a couple times to have my nanny like
Speaker 4: separate my hair so we could get photos, but he
Speaker 4: knew to do things like pull my hair or he
Speaker 4: would grab me by the arm really hard, but like
Speaker 4: up here where I could wear a shirt or whatever.
Speaker 4: But so that was kind of more on him than
Speaker 4: me to hide it, I feel like. And then with
Speaker 4: the girl, so Adrian knew that we had some challenges
Speaker 4: and more than that, and there was Beverly Hills is
Speaker 4: a small town, you know, so it wasn't like other
Speaker 4: people didn't know that this was going on. There were
Speaker 4: certainly enough people that knew, and it was kind of
Speaker 4: like a rumbling.
Speaker 2: It didn't we try to to intervene or to even
Speaker 2: like ever approached Russell or No. No one said to you,
Speaker 2: you know, I think this is going on. Nobody came
Speaker 2: to you and said, talk to me.
Speaker 4: There is an interesting scene where Adrian, you know, Adrian's
Speaker 4: into kickboxing, and she had me over for a private
Speaker 4: kickboxing lesson, and I think that was her way of
Speaker 4: really trying to give me some tools. We did it
Speaker 4: on camera, and it was all in fun, obviously, but
Speaker 4: it was her way of saying, let me at least
Speaker 4: give you some self defense.
Speaker 2: Would you've been open at the time to even especially
Speaker 2: with your with the cast. Let's say Adrian came to
Speaker 2: you and said, I think that this is going on.
Speaker 2: You think you would have been open to maybe, you know,
Speaker 2: trying to get let her in, let her help you
Speaker 2: when you were still filming and she was your colleague
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 3: I mean, are you always hiding hiding, hiding, well.
Speaker 4: I mean the kickboxing lesson was definitely an indication that,
Speaker 4: you know, she was aware and wanted to give me
Speaker 4: tools without trying to get in between the situation. And
Speaker 4: then I went to Camille and met her off camera
Speaker 4: in Malibu, and she was going through her divorce with Kelsey,
Speaker 4: and so I one of my biggest concerns, like unfortunately
Speaker 4: so many mothers, was custody. Of course, I mean, the
Speaker 4: thought of me sharing custody with this maniac who could
Speaker 4: blow off the hand that blow the lid off the
Speaker 4: pot at any moment was just unfathomable to me. There
Speaker 4: was no way I was leaving my little girl with
Speaker 4: him on a weekend. And he had never done anything
Speaker 4: to Kennedy, but because I had seen his rage spike
Speaker 4: so heavily so quick.
Speaker 3: Can you ever see him do anything to you?
Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting because when she was little, when she
Speaker 4: was around like I'm going to say like maybe three,
Speaker 4: when he and I would be in the office and
Speaker 4: it would just be matter of fact stuff, maybe like okay,
Speaker 4: we have a dinner on Monday, you know, just kind
Speaker 4: of going through our schedules. Even something that simple. She
Speaker 4: would come and stand in between the two of us,
Speaker 4: and I would be like what are you doing, like
Speaker 4: go play, or like I don't know why she's standing here.
Speaker 4: And of course, now in looking back, you know, I
Speaker 4: was in, as I said, such a fight or flight mode.
Speaker 4: I couldn't really observe that that's what was going on,
Speaker 4: but I feel like that is what was going on.
Speaker 3: And then we'll fast forward.
Speaker 4: But later on she had she made some comments when
Speaker 4: she was around five or six, and we'll share that
Speaker 4: when we get to the next part of the story.
Speaker 4: But so I went to Camille and I said, tell
Speaker 4: me how this is going with custody and how does
Speaker 4: this all work, and your attorneys and just trying to
Speaker 4: figure out how you can make an exit plan and
Speaker 4: keep Kennedy safe and and so I talked to her
Speaker 4: about it. And I had just come back from the
Speaker 4: super Bowl with him, and he had knocked my jaw
Speaker 4: out of the socket at the super Bowl and at
Speaker 4: the house in the bathroom. I was in the bathroom
Speaker 4: after he did it. You were at the super Bowl,
Speaker 4: he was like a super Bowl party or well, no,
Speaker 4: we were at the actual super Bowl.
Speaker 3: And then he went to the North and we went home.
Speaker 4: No, we went to a restaurant after and then I
Speaker 4: was in we were I was talking to a waiter again,
Speaker 4: not flirting with him, just ordering I guess, or a
Speaker 4: bartender whatever. And there was a stairwell there and this
Speaker 4: was in Dallas, and he took me out into the
Speaker 4: stairwell and like went crazy. And then I knew, because
Speaker 4: I could always tell. It was almost like his eyes
Speaker 4: would turn black and he wouldn't blink at all when
Speaker 4: he would start to go into a rage. And that
Speaker 4: was happening in the stairwell, and I knew that that
Speaker 4: was going to be a really bad night. And he
Speaker 4: had been drinking with the super Bowl all day, which
Speaker 4: always exacerbates.
Speaker 3: Things, you know. So we got back.
Speaker 4: He hit me in the phase and my jaw was
Speaker 4: like over to the side and I couldn't shut my mouth,
Speaker 4: and so then I was like laying over the toilet
Speaker 4: with just saliva pouring out of my mouth, trying to
Speaker 4: figure out how it's going to get my jaw like reset.
Speaker 4: And he wouldn't let me call nine one one. So
Speaker 4: I shared that with Camille when we were in Malibu.
Speaker 4: So that's when we're at the tea party fast forward, which,
Speaker 4: of course, with you, as you know, tea parties always
Speaker 4: mean Champagne on The Housewives. Yeah, but so we're at
Speaker 4: Lisa's and she said, we don't say he hits you.
Speaker 3: We don't say he.
Speaker 4: Broke your jaw at the super Bowl. So that's where
Speaker 4: that came from.
Speaker 2: It's like just it's so it's just even hearing the
Speaker 2: specifics because you obviously there's abuse everywhere unfortunately, and you
Speaker 2: know you've heard of women that I've been or like,
Speaker 2: it's just even like just hard to even hear those
Speaker 2: specific stories.
Speaker 3: I just can't even like imagine. No, I know, I know,
Speaker 3: but you know it's important don't think about like the specifics.
Speaker 3: And the fear must have been so awful. It was terrible,
Speaker 3: and I will say that later on.
Speaker 4: You know that the rest of the season was so
Speaker 4: tumultuous because there's like two sides, like Kyle and Lisa
Speaker 4: supporting me, and then it was odd because Adriane and
Speaker 4: Camille kind of turned against me and were questioning things,
Speaker 4: and it was it was very surprising how that all
Speaker 4: shook out on the show.
Speaker 3: It was really hurtful to me.
Speaker 2: So you confided or in Camille and then she said
Speaker 2: what she said, were you at that point scared to death?
Speaker 3: Were you.
Speaker 2: Was there any any relief in it, like, Okay, finally
Speaker 2: the truth is out, Like how is how is that
Speaker 2: when it happened, especially with the cameras there, What was
Speaker 2: going through your head?
Speaker 4: I remember, very specifically, just feeling like I was in shock.
Speaker 4: And our field producer was standing straight in front of
Speaker 4: me and he you know, they have the monitor, and
Speaker 4: I just remember I felt like I stared at him for.
Speaker 3: Like a full minute.
Speaker 4: I'm sure it was just a matter of seconds, but
Speaker 4: it felt like the longest pause of my life. I
Speaker 4: was just staring at him, thinking you cannot put this
Speaker 4: on the air, Like I was, like, this cannot get out.
Speaker 4: I kill how many seasons in were you at this
Speaker 4: point this season two?
Speaker 2: This is your second season, so you've already been through
Speaker 2: the first where people are not necessarily thinking he is
Speaker 2: a night and shining armor. I don't know how he
Speaker 2: reacted to that, to the airing of it N Iron
Speaker 2: two and this comes out, you must have been scared
Speaker 2: to death.
Speaker 4: Scared to death, and in that moment, I was just
Speaker 4: such a long it felt like such a long pause,
Speaker 4: as I said, and I was thinking to myself, Okay,
Speaker 4: something's about to change, and it's going to be either
Speaker 4: he used to tell me all the time, I'm afraid
Speaker 4: I'm going to kill you someday, and I thought, so, okay,
Speaker 4: So he's either going to kill me, divorce me, and
Speaker 4: I'm going to have a chance for a new life
Speaker 4: or something. Either something hugely explosive is going to happen,
Speaker 4: or maybe he'll get help anger management help and he'll
Speaker 4: become a men's advocate. I mean, I might have been
Speaker 4: thinking that in the moment, but eventually I was telling him,
Speaker 4: this is what you should do. You should come out
Speaker 4: and say I have an anger problem, become an advocate
Speaker 4: for men, Like this is the only way you're turning
Speaker 4: this around.
Speaker 2: Can you believe that it's some point you were trying
Speaker 2: to help him. I know, after all of that, you're
Speaker 2: trying to figure.
Speaker 4: Out because I'm so safe, So yeah, trying to make
Speaker 4: it still look like it wasn't as awful as it
Speaker 4: really was.
Speaker 2: I think about the part like I don't I don't know,
Speaker 2: just the fact that you were so scared of Kennedy
Speaker 2: having to be alone with him, that must be such,
Speaker 2: that must be so common, because I don't I have
Speaker 2: thought about that part of it when I've thought about
Speaker 2: women that have gone through this, and the part that, like,
Speaker 2: even if it's just for a weekend or at the beginning,
Speaker 2: where you know you don't know what the court is
Speaker 2: going to decide, that must be that piece of it
Speaker 2: must be so overwhelmingly scary, frightening, horrific, right, Like I
Speaker 2: don't When you said it, I'm like, yeah, Like that
Speaker 2: puts a whole different level on it, because what if
Speaker 2: you're not in control, and what if some court says
Speaker 2: that he gets to take Kennedy for even the first week.
Speaker 4: That's like a whole other aspect of it. Yeah, It's
Speaker 4: unfathomable as a mother. And I would like to emphasize
Speaker 4: though that. So he would threaten me, So he's got
Speaker 4: the financial control, and now he would say to me,
Speaker 4: go ahead, call the police. Then I'll have to go
Speaker 4: to jail. So then I won't work. And then and
Speaker 4: I had no access to finances. He wouldn't give me
Speaker 4: access to any money. I had a black card. I
Speaker 4: could charge whatever I wanted. It wasn't limit, he wasn't
Speaker 4: limited to me on spending. But then the black card
Speaker 4: became a great tool for him because he could pull
Speaker 4: up my amax statement and see where I was at
Speaker 4: all times, and you know, then we would go through
Speaker 4: these quiz sections. This is one of the times when
Speaker 4: Kennedy would come stand in the room where he would say, Okay,
Speaker 4: you were at Coffee Bean on Wednesday, and you spent
Speaker 4: fourteen dollars and I know what you drink there, so
Speaker 4: you must have bought something for someone else, like you know,
Speaker 4: who were you with? And if I said, my friend Linda,
Speaker 4: you go, I don't believe you. And in looking back,
Speaker 4: it's it's not funny. But I would think to myself,
Speaker 4: do you think if I went to coffee with a
Speaker 4: man a I would pay? It's a little funny, and
Speaker 4: I would go to a public place like coffee Bean
Speaker 4: where I would be seeing people the whole time. I mean,
Speaker 4: but I would never say that because that would have
Speaker 4: just corarked an inferno of him then going into another
Speaker 4: rabbit hole of thinking, oh, so she goes to coffee
Speaker 4: with men, but she just doesn't pay for it, you know,
Speaker 4: So of course, well it's nothing, you could say, there
Speaker 4: was no nothing. So we would go through that exercise.
Speaker 4: But going back to it, he would say, okay, go ahead,
Speaker 4: put me in jail, then I'll have no income and
Speaker 4: you have no access to our bank accounts. So his
Speaker 4: bank accounts, my bank account was separate, but he never
Speaker 4: would give me a cash So then.
Speaker 3: I'll be in jail, I'll have no money.
Speaker 4: And then once I get out, I will drag you
Speaker 4: through the court system and I will bankrupt you and
Speaker 4: your family. And then I will have you deemed an
Speaker 4: unfit mother because you have no financial capabilities. And then
Speaker 4: I will take Kennedy and I'll have you living in
Speaker 4: a cardboard box. And those tapes that were playing for
Speaker 4: me all the time were thinking, he has the ability
Speaker 4: to do this, and he would do it just in
Speaker 4: order to win and to have all that control.
Speaker 3: And I encourage when.
Speaker 4: I talk to young people, and when I speak I'm
Speaker 4: speaking at the YWCA next month in Chicago, but when
Speaker 4: I speak to big groups, I try to remind them
Speaker 4: that there are so many social services out there that
Speaker 4: prevent the extreme differential in financial capability in the court
Speaker 4: system when it comes to custody, so that if that's
Speaker 4: a fear for someone out there, I just want people
Speaker 4: to know that they don't let that happen in the
Speaker 4: court systems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a friend who was going through divorce.
Speaker 2: She was very scared to get divorced because he had
Speaker 2: said to her, you know, you're gonna end up with nothing.
Speaker 2: And I guess at one point when they finally decided
Speaker 2: to get divorced, he said, you have a choice. I'll
Speaker 2: give you this amount, or you'll decide to get lawyers
Speaker 2: and at the end of it, you'll be homeless and bankrupt.
Speaker 2: So take what I'm offering you now. And I remember
Speaker 2: saying to this friend, So, like, I know, you think,
Speaker 2: after all of these years, that he's God. Like I
Speaker 2: know you think that he has full control. But that's
Speaker 2: not how this works, you know, even though you're so
Speaker 2: scared because you've been under the impression all these years
Speaker 2: that what he says is law, you know, but I
Speaker 2: love it. You're like talking about that that's.
Speaker 4: Just not does not have to be the case, correct,
Speaker 4: And if that's the if that's the reason you're staying
Speaker 4: because you're afraid of the disparagy in the court system.
Speaker 4: I have worked with shelters all over the country and
Speaker 4: learned all about social services programs that are out there,
Speaker 4: and there are a myriad of them that are very
Speaker 4: hopeful in the custody arena for sure. Yeah. So if
Speaker 4: that's a fear for anyone listening that is not, don't
Speaker 4: let that be your hole back.
Speaker 3: Wow. So when it came out on the show, did
Speaker 3: you go home and tell Wrestful?
Speaker 4: I went home and called my friend doctor Charlie Sophie,
Speaker 4: who I actually credit for saving my life.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was on the show with me in season one.
Speaker 4: It was at the finale by my side. We were friends,
Speaker 4: but he also runs children Family Services for Los Angeles
Speaker 4: County and the foster program, and so he was someone
Speaker 4: that I could confide in about my fears about the
Speaker 4: custody and everything that was going on.
Speaker 3: So he was there when you were going through all
Speaker 3: of it. Wow. Yep.
Speaker 4: After Camille outed it, then that's when I started engaging
Speaker 4: with doctor Sophie and I talked to him and I said,
Speaker 4: I can't put this genie back in the bottle.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do.
Speaker 4: You like, this is going to come out, and so
Speaker 4: we kind of mapped out, like you know how it
Speaker 4: is with the editing and everything, like, Okay, when do
Speaker 4: you think this is approximately and how much time do
Speaker 4: we have to slowly figure out a plan here, And
Speaker 4: so at that point I was talking with doctor Sophie
Speaker 4: about like, we're going to have to let Russell know
Speaker 4: because if he gets blindsided with this, it's it's going
Speaker 4: to turn out worse, like that would be when the
Speaker 4: rage would hit the all time high. So we started
Speaker 4: going to a couple's counseling with Doctor Sophie.
Speaker 2: But things getting I'm sorry, just so many things are
Speaker 2: rushing into my head. But was it getting before it
Speaker 2: came out?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: Was it getting worse?
Speaker 2: Because he'd seen himself in season one and so was
Speaker 2: he was the abuse getting even you know, worse now
Speaker 2: that he was conscious of how he was coming off.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm just my head is spinning. You
Speaker 2: must have been so scared. Yeah, and then it actually
Speaker 2: does come out, I mean, was it? And again in
Speaker 2: season two? Was it he wasn't more nervous about looking
Speaker 2: like an hole on camera? Or was he even more angry?
Speaker 4: He definitely didn't like the way he looked on camera,
Speaker 4: and there were people saying, oh, so this is a day.
Speaker 4: I went on Wendy Williams and a bless her and
Speaker 4: she said he abuses you, doesn't he? And I was like, no, no,
Speaker 4: I mean, but it came out of nowhere, and of
Speaker 4: course I wasn't gonna go Yeah, So I was like
Speaker 4: in a panic because I knew when he was going
Speaker 4: to all right episode he was gonna and so of
Speaker 4: course I immediately just stuttered over and covered it up.
Speaker 4: But it was evident to other people. There were people
Speaker 4: were saying, like, you can tell he's controlling or he
Speaker 4: seems scary. And it was interesting for me too because I,
Speaker 4: as I was saying earlier, sometimes you need confirmation that
Speaker 4: they're actually being abused, which it breaks my heart for
Speaker 4: people just but I was in that realm too, because
Speaker 4: he would say to me, what are you complaining about?
Speaker 4: Like you have it all, you have the house, you
Speaker 4: have cars, you have black car, do you have the
Speaker 4: time nanny? Like what are you bitching about? You know,
Speaker 4: your life isn't so bad and you know, And so
Speaker 4: then I would wrap my head around, Okay, wait, maybe
Speaker 4: I'm not being abused because I'm being taken care of,
Speaker 4: my daughter's being taken care of, and you know, And
Speaker 4: then I could he could talk me into believing maybe
Speaker 4: I'm not being abused, and he's he'd guessed like me,
Speaker 4: just be like you're you're just crazy, you're too sensitive,
Speaker 4: you're weak, you know, you're you're fine, and you have
Speaker 4: this beautiful life. And then I would feel like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I guess I have a lot to be thankful for.
Speaker 4: And that's another thing that happens so frequently is where
Speaker 4: we can have an abuser that is convincing us and
Speaker 4: he would say, you're the only one that makes me
Speaker 4: this way. You're the only person that makes me this angry,
Speaker 4: and you make me act like this, And so I
Speaker 4: could kind of say, Okay, maybe if I don't laugh
Speaker 4: too much, then I won't set him off again, like
Speaker 4: we talked about earlier, if I don't laugh too little,
Speaker 4: then I won't set him off. So I would start
Speaker 4: to think, okay, maybe that was my fault last night.
Speaker 4: And it's such a common theme that that's how it
Speaker 4: starts working, you know.
Speaker 3: So you're talking to your off around it. Remember coming
Speaker 3: to terms of that.
Speaker 2: Some of my in terms of my childhood, like always
Speaker 2: thinking it's it wasn't that bad, it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2: And then as I was as I got older, I
Speaker 2: was like, wait a second, but again, I'm all over
Speaker 2: the place, Taylor, because your story is so compelling, and
Speaker 2: I don't mean it in like a beautiful, wonderful way.
Speaker 2: I mean in like a very sad But you're so
Speaker 2: open and honest about it. Of course I appreciate ye, Taylor.
Speaker 2: There is so much more that I want to talk
Speaker 2: to you about. You're my hero, and I have more
Speaker 2: questions and more discussion to be had, But maybe this
Speaker 2: is a good time. Just take a break, and you
Speaker 2: guys will be right back with Taylor Armstrong