1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Some listeners may find this content disturbing. This episode discusses 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: domestic abuse as well as suicide. Please proceed with caution. 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: This is Taylor Armstrong in her own words. 4 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 2: Hi guys, it's celebrity mentor Jennifer Fessler back with you 5 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: on ID Part two today. I am so honored because 6 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: we have so many amazing people come and show their 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: journey to finding love in their chapter two and my 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: guest today really went through the fire to find her 9 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: second love. She is resilient, she's an advocate, and she's inspiring. 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: She's the author of Hiding from Reality, my story of love, 11 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: loss and finding the courage. You know here from the 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Orange County. Her name 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: some of you may know the name and know the 14 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: woman is Taylor Armstrong. We were so excited to have 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: you here, and I was like, oh my god, I 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: love Taylor. We got to know each other, I guess 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, right, We met in Orange County, Yes, 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: And I just remember maybe I just started being on Housewives, 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: and you were so warm and lovely and friendly, and 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: so I was very excited that you're coming on. 21 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 3: We had drinks at the Monarch Beach Hotel. 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 4: Yes, with Tamra and Emily. Emily, Yes, one of my 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 4: friends was in town. 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 3: Yes, y, Yeah, it was really neat. 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 4: She's too sweet to go on New Jersey. I'm worried locas. 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 4: Looka's talking. 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, New Jersey is a scary place to be. 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'm a friend of a housewife and listen, here's 29 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: just like the truth of it. Like I've I've been 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: a fan of everything Housewives since the inception, and I've 31 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: known you through the TV and you know, obviously I 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: have followed you and some of the stuff that you've 33 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: been through and it is not easy and or you know, 34 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: I'm not going to speak for you, but I think 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: it is so ad and I think it sounds like, 36 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: especially right now, you're really sharing your story and that 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: can't be so easy to do, or maybe for you 38 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: it is easy to do. I don't know, but you 39 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: know you have been through it, my friend, I have. 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 3: Been through a lot, that's sure. 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, a lot of other people have approached me and 42 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 4: shared their stories with me over the years, and the 43 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 4: numbers are vast. I think, actually the numbers are so 44 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 4: much more vast than the reported numbers just because of 45 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 4: the shame and the stigma and everything that goes along 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 4: with with domestic abuse. 47 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 48 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 4: So but I am approached daily by people telling me 49 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 4: their stories and it's heart wrenching. 50 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 3: It was just so I don't know, it's just like 51 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: a viewer. 52 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: It was really overwhelming, and it was like when you 53 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: were you know, quote unquote out it. I don't know 54 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 2: what we're we refer to it as now and I 55 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but just to 56 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: know that you were doing this show and everything that 57 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: comes along with that, and then dealing with what you 58 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 2: were dealing with. So but okay, so I do part 59 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: two we kind of listen to was like to start 60 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 2: with part one. Yeah, so, can you tell me a 61 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: little bit about how you met your first husband, Russell, 62 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: what that was like, and what your marriage was like, 63 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: maybe even at the beginning, give us a little bit 64 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: of background. 65 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I do tell my story frequently. I do 66 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 4: a lot of public speaking, So I'm an open book. 67 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 4: Anything you want to talk about. I love sharing it 68 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 4: mainly because it is helping all those other people that 69 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 4: are out there that may not realize that they're in 70 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 4: a domestic violent situation or that they're seeing some red flags, 71 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 4: but they're questioning themselves. 72 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: So to go back to my initial. 73 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 4: Relationship, we met in a restaurant in Beverly Hills at 74 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 4: the Four Seasons actually, and it started off great. It 75 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 4: was very much fireworks in the beginning as a blind 76 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 4: dat are you just We actually were both waiting on 77 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 4: a table. I was waiting on a friend. He was 78 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 4: with a group, and we're both waiting on tables and 79 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 4: just started talking. Okay, so but yeah, I mean, it 80 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 4: was just it was very much fireworks in the beginning, 81 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 4: but there were red flags literally from from the beginning. 82 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: For the first day of state. Please do tell our 83 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: very first day. 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 4: Yes, he took me to a restaurant where I was 85 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 4: a regular and so I knew everybody that worked there, obviously, 86 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 4: and it was Valentine's Day and I ordered and then 87 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 4: he said, did you sleep with that waiter? 88 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: And I thought, what I mean, I slept with anybody there? 89 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 4: And he said, well, I could tell by the way 90 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 4: you were looking at him when you ordered, And I thought, 91 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 4: what are you talking about? 92 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 3: But I mean, so those little red flags. 93 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 4: When I do public speaking, especially at universities, I try 94 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 4: to talk to young people about this, you know those 95 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 4: when you start to think that was kind of weird. 96 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 3: Well, it was weird, and then I just let it 97 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: keep going. 98 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 4: And I thought, oh, he must just like me a lot, 99 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 4: because I would talk myself into because I liked him 100 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 4: so much, you know that. I just thought, Oh, it's 101 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 4: because he likes me so much, he doesn't want me 102 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 4: to talk to other guys. And then it just builds. 103 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 4: The jealousy builds, the control builds over time, you know. 104 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 4: And I had a textile company at the time in downtown, LA, 105 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 4: and he started saying, I don't want you to work. 106 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 4: You shouldn't have to work. I'll take care of you. 107 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 4: And it felt very night in Shining Armor. At first, 108 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: you know, I thought he said, downtown's dangerous. I don't 109 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 4: want you going down there, and so I gave up 110 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 4: my company. And so that night in Shining Armor effect 111 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, now I gave up my own 112 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 4: financial capabilities. 113 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 3: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry. 114 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: Okay, So just because it's like overwhelming, like just even 115 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: the fact that he on your first date, how old were. 116 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: You, Oh my gosh, let's see thirty four. Okay, it 117 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: just seems like a lot. 118 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: So what was it about him though when you first 119 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: met him that you found so appealing. 120 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 4: An interesting attribute of abusers is they can be very madic, charismatic, 121 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 4: you know, life of the party. And I think that's 122 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 4: why when the abuse all started to come out, a 123 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 4: lot of people were like, what he like? He would 124 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 4: never be, never do that, Like, he's this charismatic guy, 125 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 4: and it's so common. 126 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 3: I hear it, it is so common. 127 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: I interviewed someone in the past who was married to 128 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: the Wolf of Wall Street. My name is Nadine, and 129 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: she has we're not gonna we don't need to get 130 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: into that now, but she has such a similar story 131 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 2: about how charismatic. I made a movie about him. Right, 132 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: he was right, and in the end it was I 133 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: wasn't good. 134 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: Go on. So you met him, he was charismatic, verytive. 135 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 4: Yes, he had that knight and shining armor kind of 136 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 4: feel to the whole thing, like being wanting to take 137 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 4: care of me and all of that, which felt great. 138 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 4: And I grew up without a father, so the whole 139 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 4: I could get myself into a position where having a 140 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 4: man say he wants to take care of me is 141 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 4: like extra love. 142 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 3: Bombing for me, yeah, love bombing. 143 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 4: So yeah, just because that's something I missed in my childhood. 144 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 4: And so that as we went forward, you know, it 145 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 4: was I want you to sell your company, and then 146 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 4: you should be a mom because you have so much 147 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: love to give. Be a shame for you not to 148 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 4: be a mom. Did you want to be a mom? 149 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 4: I was kind of on the fence. I thought, I 150 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 4: I'll either be a business person or I'll be a mom. 151 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 4: I wasn't going to try to do both. And so 152 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 4: then I had now had let go of my company, 153 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 4: so I thought, okay. 154 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 3: You know, then the mom role feels great. 155 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 4: I can be a stay at home mom and really 156 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 4: be devoted to that role in my life. And so, 157 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 4: of course biggest blessing in my life my daughter, Kennedy. 158 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: But then that was really another form of control because 159 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: now he's taken away my financial capabilities and now I 160 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 4: have his child. So the walls, even though I was 161 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 4: so overjoyed having Kennedy, the walls were closing in, you know, 162 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 4: with the amount of control he had over my life. 163 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 4: And shortly after that, you know, the jealousy was continuing, 164 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 4: and then there would be some of the just like 165 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 4: criticisms like your hair is too long, your hair's too short, 166 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 4: your dress is too long, your dress is too short. 167 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: You know, there was never a right length of a dress, 168 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 4: length of the hair. 169 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: You know, I'm just using those as I've met before. 170 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 4: You get what I'm saying. You laugh too much, you 171 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 4: don't laugh enough. You talk to people at my business 172 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 4: dinners too much. Then the next time I would talk less, 173 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 4: and then he would say, oh, you didn't talk to 174 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 4: anyone because you're stuck up and you think you're too 175 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 4: good for everyone. So it was just constantly like managing 176 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 4: it with something and managing it. And you know, I said, 177 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 4: when I watched season one of Housewives, I was I 178 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 4: literally was watching me thinking who is that person? Because 179 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: I had become such a shell of myself, being afraid 180 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 4: to have my big personality or you know, laugh too much, 181 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 4: and so I really was watching me thinking, I don't 182 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 4: even know who I am. And one of my very 183 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 4: long time friends called me and he said, I don't 184 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 4: know who that girl is on that show, but it's 185 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 4: not you. During when it was happening, yeah, when it 186 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 4: was fair it was yeah, And he just said, I 187 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: don't know what's going on in your life, but that 188 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: is nothing like your personality. 189 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: So I was just sitting here with you and getting 190 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 2: to know you. And I also as a viewer, I 191 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: feel the egaisact same way, exact same way. Like it 192 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: wasn't you didn't being honest, you didn't seem like a 193 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: real person like you just it was all It felt 194 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 2: like it was all just show and putting up, you know, 195 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 2: painting this picture in a way. Yes, And I want 196 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: to talk about you starting the show, but I just 197 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: have to ask you this. It's so funny if you 198 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: felt like this. So because my daughter has said this 199 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 2: to me and it freaked me out, I don't think 200 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: she feels like this anymore, but that she sort of 201 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: likes She's like, I kind of like guys that are jealous. 202 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: I kind of feel like, you know, I don't know, 203 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: I want them to be a little jealous, like it 204 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: shows me like that they really like me. 205 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 3: Yep. 206 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: Now, I mean there are degrees of everything. But did 207 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: you feel like that at first? Like I like that 208 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 2: he's a little. 209 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I don't like it's because he's so crazy 210 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 4: about me, you know, and that comes from my lack 211 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 4: of self esteem and lack of yah of self confidence 212 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 4: to be like, oh, someone likes me enough that they care. 213 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 3: That was my daughter too. She didn't. 214 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: It's not about her, but she she want her boyfriend 215 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 2: so badly in high school. Didn't hapen even through college, 216 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: and she felt like that she wanted a boy to 217 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 2: care about her that much. And it's so that is 218 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: just so skewed and scary, right, Like, you know, we 219 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: all have a little bit of the jealousy thing, but. 220 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's a normal level of jealousy if 221 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 4: you have an overly flirtatious partner. I don't have a 222 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 4: flirtatious bone in my body. It's just not who I am. 223 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 4: I don't blame anyone that does. I just just not 224 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 4: part of my personality. But I also don't have a 225 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 4: jealous bone in my body. So for me, the whole 226 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 4: thing is like unfathomable because I'm just I'm not jealous 227 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 4: and I'm not flirtatious. So all of his accusations were 228 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 4: completely unfounded. And the things that he like, thinking I'm 229 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 4: flirting with a waiter would it was just like I 230 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 4: just looked at him in order. There was nothing more 231 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 4: to it. And so it was a little things like 232 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 4: that in the beginning that I certainly should have recognized, 233 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 4: but I didn't want to. So that's what we do. 234 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 4: We run right by all the red flags when we 235 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 4: want to stay with the person that we're with. And 236 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 4: then then the things that really started to happen being with 237 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: him that started getting really weird as far as the 238 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 4: jealousy goes, is the he started recording me. And so 239 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 4: the first time I found a tape recording device, I 240 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 4: was at my desk in the house and my printer 241 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 4: had stopped working. So I crawled under my desk to 242 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 4: unplug it and replug it. And I was backing out 243 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 4: from underneath the desk and I looked up and I 244 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 4: saw this recorder, a little small recording device like you 245 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 4: would use in college in a class, and it was 246 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 4: hanging my picture hooks underneath my desk. And took me 247 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 4: a minute because I just thought, you know, it was 248 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 4: so out of place that I couldn't put my finger 249 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 4: on what it was. And so I grabbed it and 250 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 4: I started listening to it, and it was me, and 251 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 4: he had been recording me. 252 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: It was just before after the show. This was before 253 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 3: the show. 254 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 5: Halloween is around the corner and your favorite podcaster are 255 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 5: serving up episodes that are It's so good, It's actually scary. 256 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 5: Sex and the City meets Severance when Adam Scott joins 257 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 5: Kristin Davis to discuss the haunting relationship between Big and 258 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 5: Natasha on Are You a Charlotte? 259 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 3: And nine one one? 260 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 5: What's Your Emergency? The new episode of Call It What 261 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 5: It Is? Of course nine to one one Nashville co 262 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 5: star Kimberly Williams Paisley joins Jessica Kapshaw and Camilla Leddington 263 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 5: to talk about her health scare, her superstar hubby Brad Paisley, 264 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 5: and her memories on the set of Father of the 265 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 5: Bride with the legendary Diane Keaton. Oscar winner Bree Larsen 266 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 5: is a work in progress, Sophia Bush finds out why, 267 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 5: and Walt's right over to daniel With because Danielle Fischel 268 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 5: has fellow Dancing with the Stars contestant Dylan Effron on 269 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 5: to talk about the ballroom, the leaderboard and more. Listen 270 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 5: now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 271 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 5: get your podcast. 272 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: Okay, so you already know he's I mean, I don't 273 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: know what you want to like really acknowledge for your 274 00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 2: you want it's really acknowledged for yourself at this time. 275 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 3: But oviously knew he was off. 276 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 2: So the question that I had, and I think probably 277 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: you get all the time now, is what was that 278 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: like deciding to go on reality TV? The fact that 279 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: he even like gave the go ahead for it is 280 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: feel so shocking to me. The fact that you were 281 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: not too scared of or maybe you were and you 282 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: thought it would be helpful. Tell us like, how you 283 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 2: got how did you get there? 284 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 4: Right? 285 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: Right? Well? 286 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 4: When I decided to go on the show, and this 287 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 4: is me in retrospect, I certainly wasn't aware of it 288 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 4: at the time. You know, as we talked about he 289 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 4: was very charismatic, and he was very narcissistic, and he 290 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 4: thought everyone loved him, and so he definitely saw the 291 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 4: show as an opportunity for him and from a business perspective, 292 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 4: but it's also he just thought the world would fall 293 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 4: in love with him. And needless to say, it was 294 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 4: quite evident even in season one that people could tell 295 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 4: there was something off there. But so he was thrilled 296 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 4: for me to go on the show. I, as I 297 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 4: was saying in retrospect. Wonder if if I thought, because 298 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 4: there's a good version, there was a good version of him, 299 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 4: like all abusers, I would say, and if I could 300 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 4: keep him being the good person, the good version all 301 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 4: the time. Well, he was good in public because he 302 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 4: wanted to be the life of the party and be charismatic. 303 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 4: So if you put a camera in our house, now 304 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 4: you're in public again, right, So abuse doesn't happen as 305 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 4: often in the restaurant or the mall. You know, it 306 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 4: happens once you get behind closed doors. 307 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: So Taylor, you think it was like it was almost 308 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: like it made you feel safe to think that you 309 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: guys were going to be on camera. 310 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, and at the same time, he's not going to 311 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 4: hit me and take a risk that I'm going to 312 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 4: have a bruise, you know, on camera. You know, he 313 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 4: could easily have me just cover it up if it. 314 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: Was just going to be at home. 315 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: Or how long did the abuse start after you guys 316 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: got married? 317 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 3: The physical abuse? 318 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was it was November and I had 319 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 4: gave birth to Kennedy in February, So let's see November 320 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 4: this in virginn So I was would have been five months. 321 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: Pregnant six months pregnant. 322 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 4: I was I was a little bit more pregnant than that, 323 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 4: so it might be late November. And that was the 324 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 4: first time that he ever choked me. We were getting 325 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 4: ready to go to a charity event. Feel pregnant, mm hmm. 326 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 327 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: And then obviously it just obviously it kept going. But 328 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: it was how long after you had Kennedy before you 329 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: got on the show. 330 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 4: So I had Kennedy in February and we celebrated her 331 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 4: fourth birthday in season one, so and that was let's see, 332 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 4: we got she was born in two thousand and six. 333 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: Okay, so we went on Housewives twenty ten she was four. 334 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: And it's just like, I can't even imagine how much 335 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: had be I'd be swirling through your head and just 336 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: knowing that he was he could he was abusive, and 337 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: you now have cameras in your house, and how much 338 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: you had to deal with cover up. I mean when 339 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: the cameras went down, because I think for me they 340 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: would go down. I don't know what the situation was 341 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: back then, but you know they didn't maybe record on 342 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: the weekends or what that was like. 343 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: It must have been just idious. Yeah. 344 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 4: Well, and you, of all people know the show is 345 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: very anxiety inducing to begin with, having your friends fighting, 346 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 4: you fighting, and you know, you don't know what you're 347 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 4: what's going to pop up, you know, and what's going 348 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 4: to spark something right, And. 349 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: So I always had a little. 350 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 4: I guess in is a terrible word, but of like 351 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 4: Kyle getting ready getting to go home to her beautiful 352 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 4: family life after a tough day of filming or a 353 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: tough night of fighting with. 354 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 3: That's a horrible word. I would feel the same way. 355 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, Lisa and you know, so they 356 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 4: could go through the anxiety of the filming and then 357 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 4: go home to have support, and for me, I would 358 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 4: go through the anxiety of filming to what was actually 359 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 4: scarier anxiety going home, not knowing what was going to 360 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 4: happen next, and you know, and then you start replaying 361 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 4: the tapes all the time of the words that they say. 362 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: And for me, the. 363 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 4: Physical abuse obviously is horrible, but the verbal abuse. Sometimes 364 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: women will say to me, well, I don't know. I 365 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 4: mean he yells at me and calls me names. I 366 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 4: don't know if I'm being abused. And my response is, 367 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 4: if you have to question yourself whether you're being abused 368 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 4: or not, you are, and it's not okay for somebody 369 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 4: to scream at you. Don't call you names, but those parts, 370 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 4: those tapes that you replay. So I would be in 371 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 4: Kennedy's playroom, coloring with her, playing dolls, whatever, but I 372 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 4: wasn't really there because my mind was on what's going 373 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 4: to happen tonight, or what happened last night, or what's 374 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 4: going to set him off today? Or what all the 375 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 4: horrible things he said to me a week ago? You know, 376 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 4: it really robbed me of the years with Kennedy, of 377 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 4: always just being on edge and fight or flight all 378 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 4: the time. 379 00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 3: Did you have anyone like it? 380 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: Just the whole stories is not I know, unfortunately the 381 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: story of abuse is not so uncommon, but the story 382 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: of somebody being on reality TV and having to deal 383 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: with not only the pressures of that but the potential 384 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: of being exposed and then it's just it is seems 385 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: just so overwhelming, Tod. Do you have anyone that you 386 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 2: a friend or somebody that you could trust during that 387 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: time that knew what was going on? 388 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, it definitely was, as you said, anxiety provoke ans. 389 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 4: When when I wrote my book it's called Hiding from 390 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 4: Reality because That's what I was trying to do, is 391 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 4: hide my reality, of course from reality TV. So my 392 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 4: assistant at the time, she lived in my house and 393 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 4: she actually had known hers since she was born. Her 394 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: mom was my cheerleading coach, and so she was there 395 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: and knew, but she was afraid of him also, so 396 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 4: even though she could be a support system for me, 397 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 4: she wasn't going to jump in the middle of it. 398 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 4: She's young, very young, yeah, yeah, early twenties. But she 399 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 4: did she talk to her. Yeah, I could tell it 400 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 4: to her. Yeah, she was great. He's still Oh yeah, 401 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 4: I was on Worth her yesterday. 402 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 3: Really yeah. 403 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, she's family, so yeah, she was definitely there. 404 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 4: But I didn't want to talk to my mom about it. 405 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 4: My mother's the sweetest lady, and I'm an only child, 406 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 4: so I just knew it would destroy her. And also 407 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 4: I didn't know what my mom's reaction would be if 408 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 4: she would want to try to intervene, And I certainly 409 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 4: didn't want that happening with him because he was very 410 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 4: dangerous and I just didn't want her to get involved. 411 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: How many see I can't even imagine, Like how many 412 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 2: scenes did you have to cover up cruises or hold 413 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: it together after something terrifying that happens, Like, how did 414 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: you even I don't know how you kept it together? 415 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: I mean how did you make it look like it 416 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 2: wasn't happening, Because I remember when it came out, I 417 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 2: was surprised as a viewer about it. So I wish 418 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 2: you hadn't for your own sake. But you did a 419 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: good job, I guess of keeping it quiet. I mean, 420 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: did you have techniques around it? 421 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 3: Was it? You know? 422 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: Was it the makeup of the whole thing that you 423 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: could hide your bruises or like talking to yourself getting 424 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: yourself to a place where you could actually do this right. 425 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 4: I think it was an escape for me because I 426 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 4: would get to go be with the girls, and it 427 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 4: wasn't like when I got home I was going to 428 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,239 Speaker 4: be drilled about who I had dinner with, you know, 429 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 4: because he knew the cameras were there and that I 430 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 4: was with the girls, And so it was almost like 431 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: I would get to go enjoy my life without the 432 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 4: scrutiny of him quizzing me when I got home. 433 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 2: And how did the girls find out? Well, I remember 434 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: Camille outed you or whatever however we want. 435 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 4: To write with that, So Adriane and I were in 436 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 4: Mommy and Me together when are like with our babies, right, 437 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 4: And so she knew that I had challenges in my relationship. 438 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 4: She didn't know the exact extent, but she would see me, 439 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 4: you know, in the morning at Mommy and Me, you know, 440 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 4: with upset or whatever, not with bruises or anything. But 441 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 4: what I was going to say about the hiding things is. 442 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 3: Abusers are very. 443 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 4: Clever when it comes to abuse, especially when they know 444 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 4: that you're going to be on television, right right, So 445 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 4: one of his favorite tactics would be to grab me 446 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: by one side of my head, my hair and then 447 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 4: bang my other side of my head against things, so 448 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 4: it's all in here so you can't obviously there's nothing visible. 449 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 4: I tried a couple times to have my nanny like 450 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 4: separate my hair so we could get photos, but he 451 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 4: knew to do things like pull my hair or he 452 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 4: would grab me by the arm really hard, but like 453 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 4: up here where I could wear a shirt or whatever. 454 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 4: But so that was kind of more on him than 455 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 4: me to hide it, I feel like. And then with 456 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 4: the girl, so Adrian knew that we had some challenges 457 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 4: and more than that, and there was Beverly Hills is 458 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 4: a small town, you know, so it wasn't like other 459 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: people didn't know that this was going on. There were 460 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 4: certainly enough people that knew, and it was kind of 461 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 4: like a rumbling. 462 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: It didn't we try to to intervene or to even 463 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: like ever approached Russell or No. No one said to you, 464 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 2: you know, I think this is going on. Nobody came 465 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: to you and said, talk to me. 466 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 4: There is an interesting scene where Adrian, you know, Adrian's 467 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 4: into kickboxing, and she had me over for a private 468 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 4: kickboxing lesson, and I think that was her way of 469 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 4: really trying to give me some tools. We did it 470 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 4: on camera, and it was all in fun, obviously, but 471 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 4: it was her way of saying, let me at least 472 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 4: give you some self defense. 473 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: Would you've been open at the time to even especially 474 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 2: with your with the cast. Let's say Adrian came to 475 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 2: you and said, I think that this is going on. 476 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: You think you would have been open to maybe, you know, 477 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: trying to get let her in, let her help you 478 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: when you were still filming and she was your colleague 479 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: at the time. 480 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 3: I mean, are you always hiding hiding, hiding, well. 481 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 4: I mean the kickboxing lesson was definitely an indication that, 482 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 4: you know, she was aware and wanted to give me 483 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 4: tools without trying to get in between the situation. And 484 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 4: then I went to Camille and met her off camera 485 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 4: in Malibu, and she was going through her divorce with Kelsey, 486 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 4: and so I one of my biggest concerns, like unfortunately 487 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 4: so many mothers, was custody. Of course, I mean, the 488 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 4: thought of me sharing custody with this maniac who could 489 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: blow off the hand that blow the lid off the 490 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 4: pot at any moment was just unfathomable to me. There 491 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 4: was no way I was leaving my little girl with 492 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 4: him on a weekend. And he had never done anything 493 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 4: to Kennedy, but because I had seen his rage spike 494 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 4: so heavily so quick. 495 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 3: Can you ever see him do anything to you? 496 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting because when she was little, when she 497 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 4: was around like I'm going to say like maybe three, 498 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 4: when he and I would be in the office and 499 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 4: it would just be matter of fact stuff, maybe like okay, 500 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 4: we have a dinner on Monday, you know, just kind 501 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 4: of going through our schedules. Even something that simple. She 502 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 4: would come and stand in between the two of us, 503 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 4: and I would be like what are you doing, like 504 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 4: go play, or like I don't know why she's standing here. 505 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 4: And of course, now in looking back, you know, I 506 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 4: was in, as I said, such a fight or flight mode. 507 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 4: I couldn't really observe that that's what was going on, 508 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,479 Speaker 4: but I feel like that is what was going on. 509 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 3: And then we'll fast forward. 510 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 4: But later on she had she made some comments when 511 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: she was around five or six, and we'll share that 512 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 4: when we get to the next part of the story. 513 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 4: But so I went to Camille and I said, tell 514 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 4: me how this is going with custody and how does 515 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 4: this all work, and your attorneys and just trying to 516 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 4: figure out how you can make an exit plan and 517 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 4: keep Kennedy safe and and so I talked to her 518 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 4: about it. And I had just come back from the 519 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 4: super Bowl with him, and he had knocked my jaw 520 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 4: out of the socket at the super Bowl and at 521 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 4: the house in the bathroom. I was in the bathroom 522 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 4: after he did it. You were at the super Bowl, 523 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 4: he was like a super Bowl party or well, no, 524 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 4: we were at the actual super Bowl. 525 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 3: And then he went to the North and we went home. 526 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 4: No, we went to a restaurant after and then I 527 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 4: was in we were I was talking to a waiter again, 528 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 4: not flirting with him, just ordering I guess, or a 529 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 4: bartender whatever. And there was a stairwell there and this 530 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 4: was in Dallas, and he took me out into the 531 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 4: stairwell and like went crazy. And then I knew, because 532 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 4: I could always tell. It was almost like his eyes 533 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 4: would turn black and he wouldn't blink at all when 534 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 4: he would start to go into a rage. And that 535 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 4: was happening in the stairwell, and I knew that that 536 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 4: was going to be a really bad night. And he 537 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 4: had been drinking with the super Bowl all day, which 538 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 4: always exacerbates. 539 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: Things, you know. So we got back. 540 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 4: He hit me in the phase and my jaw was 541 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 4: like over to the side and I couldn't shut my mouth, 542 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 4: and so then I was like laying over the toilet 543 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 4: with just saliva pouring out of my mouth, trying to 544 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 4: figure out how it's going to get my jaw like reset. 545 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 4: And he wouldn't let me call nine one one. So 546 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 4: I shared that with Camille when we were in Malibu. 547 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 4: So that's when we're at the tea party fast forward, which, 548 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 4: of course, with you, as you know, tea parties always 549 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 4: mean Champagne on The Housewives. Yeah, but so we're at 550 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 4: Lisa's and she said, we don't say he hits you. 551 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: We don't say he. 552 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 4: Broke your jaw at the super Bowl. So that's where 553 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 4: that came from. 554 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: It's like just it's so it's just even hearing the 555 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: specifics because you obviously there's abuse everywhere unfortunately, and you 556 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 2: know you've heard of women that I've been or like, 557 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: it's just even like just hard to even hear those 558 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: specific stories. 559 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 3: I just can't even like imagine. No, I know, I know, 560 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 3: but you know it's important don't think about like the specifics. 561 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 3: And the fear must have been so awful. It was terrible, 562 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 3: and I will say that later on. 563 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 4: You know that the rest of the season was so 564 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 4: tumultuous because there's like two sides, like Kyle and Lisa 565 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 4: supporting me, and then it was odd because Adriane and 566 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 4: Camille kind of turned against me and were questioning things, 567 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 4: and it was it was very surprising how that all 568 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 4: shook out on the show. 569 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 3: It was really hurtful to me. 570 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 2: So you confided or in Camille and then she said 571 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: what she said, were you at that point scared to death? 572 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 3: Were you. 573 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: Was there any any relief in it, like, Okay, finally 574 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: the truth is out, Like how is how is that 575 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: when it happened, especially with the cameras there, What was 576 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: going through your head? 577 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 4: I remember, very specifically, just feeling like I was in shock. 578 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 4: And our field producer was standing straight in front of 579 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 4: me and he you know, they have the monitor, and 580 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 4: I just remember I felt like I stared at him for. 581 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 3: Like a full minute. 582 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 4: I'm sure it was just a matter of seconds, but 583 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 4: it felt like the longest pause of my life. I 584 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 4: was just staring at him, thinking you cannot put this 585 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 4: on the air, Like I was, like, this cannot get out. 586 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 4: I kill how many seasons in were you at this 587 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 4: point this season two? 588 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 2: This is your second season, so you've already been through 589 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: the first where people are not necessarily thinking he is 590 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 2: a night and shining armor. I don't know how he 591 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: reacted to that, to the airing of it N Iron 592 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: two and this comes out, you must have been scared 593 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 2: to death. 594 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 4: Scared to death, and in that moment, I was just 595 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 4: such a long it felt like such a long pause, 596 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 4: as I said, and I was thinking to myself, Okay, 597 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 4: something's about to change, and it's going to be either 598 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 4: he used to tell me all the time, I'm afraid 599 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 4: I'm going to kill you someday, and I thought, so, okay, 600 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 4: So he's either going to kill me, divorce me, and 601 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 4: I'm going to have a chance for a new life 602 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 4: or something. Either something hugely explosive is going to happen, 603 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 4: or maybe he'll get help anger management help and he'll 604 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 4: become a men's advocate. I mean, I might have been 605 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 4: thinking that in the moment, but eventually I was telling him, 606 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 4: this is what you should do. You should come out 607 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 4: and say I have an anger problem, become an advocate 608 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 4: for men, Like this is the only way you're turning 609 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 4: this around. 610 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 2: Can you believe that it's some point you were trying 611 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 2: to help him. I know, after all of that, you're 612 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 2: trying to figure. 613 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 4: Out because I'm so safe, So yeah, trying to make 614 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 4: it still look like it wasn't as awful as it 615 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 4: really was. 616 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: I think about the part like I don't I don't know, 617 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 2: just the fact that you were so scared of Kennedy 618 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: having to be alone with him, that must be such, 619 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 2: that must be so common, because I don't I have 620 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: thought about that part of it when I've thought about 621 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: women that have gone through this, and the part that, like, 622 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: even if it's just for a weekend or at the beginning, 623 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: where you know you don't know what the court is 624 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: going to decide, that must be that piece of it 625 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: must be so overwhelmingly scary, frightening, horrific, right, Like I 626 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 2: don't When you said it, I'm like, yeah, Like that 627 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: puts a whole different level on it, because what if 628 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: you're not in control, and what if some court says 629 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: that he gets to take Kennedy for even the first week. 630 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 4: That's like a whole other aspect of it. Yeah, It's 631 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 4: unfathomable as a mother. And I would like to emphasize 632 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 4: though that. So he would threaten me, So he's got 633 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 4: the financial control, and now he would say to me, 634 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 4: go ahead, call the police. Then I'll have to go 635 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 4: to jail. So then I won't work. And then and 636 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 4: I had no access to finances. He wouldn't give me 637 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 4: access to any money. I had a black card. I 638 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 4: could charge whatever I wanted. It wasn't limit, he wasn't 639 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 4: limited to me on spending. But then the black card 640 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 4: became a great tool for him because he could pull 641 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 4: up my amax statement and see where I was at 642 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 4: all times, and you know, then we would go through 643 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 4: these quiz sections. This is one of the times when 644 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 4: Kennedy would come stand in the room where he would say, Okay, 645 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 4: you were at Coffee Bean on Wednesday, and you spent 646 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 4: fourteen dollars and I know what you drink there, so 647 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 4: you must have bought something for someone else, like you know, 648 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 4: who were you with? And if I said, my friend Linda, 649 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 4: you go, I don't believe you. And in looking back, 650 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 4: it's it's not funny. But I would think to myself, 651 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: do you think if I went to coffee with a 652 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 4: man a I would pay? It's a little funny, and 653 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 4: I would go to a public place like coffee Bean 654 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 4: where I would be seeing people the whole time. I mean, 655 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 4: but I would never say that because that would have 656 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 4: just corarked an inferno of him then going into another 657 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 4: rabbit hole of thinking, oh, so she goes to coffee 658 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 4: with men, but she just doesn't pay for it, you know, 659 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 4: So of course, well it's nothing, you could say, there 660 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 4: was no nothing. So we would go through that exercise. 661 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 4: But going back to it, he would say, okay, go ahead, 662 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 4: put me in jail, then I'll have no income and 663 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 4: you have no access to our bank accounts. So his 664 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 4: bank accounts, my bank account was separate, but he never 665 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 4: would give me a cash So then. 666 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 3: I'll be in jail, I'll have no money. 667 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 4: And then once I get out, I will drag you 668 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 4: through the court system and I will bankrupt you and 669 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 4: your family. And then I will have you deemed an 670 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 4: unfit mother because you have no financial capabilities. And then 671 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 4: I will take Kennedy and I'll have you living in 672 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 4: a cardboard box. And those tapes that were playing for 673 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 4: me all the time were thinking, he has the ability 674 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 4: to do this, and he would do it just in 675 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 4: order to win and to have all that control. 676 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 3: And I encourage when. 677 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 4: I talk to young people, and when I speak I'm 678 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 4: speaking at the YWCA next month in Chicago, but when 679 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 4: I speak to big groups, I try to remind them 680 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 4: that there are so many social services out there that 681 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 4: prevent the extreme differential in financial capability in the court 682 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 4: system when it comes to custody, so that if that's 683 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 4: a fear for someone out there, I just want people 684 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 4: to know that they don't let that happen in the 685 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 4: court systems. 686 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a friend who was going through divorce. 687 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: She was very scared to get divorced because he had 688 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: said to her, you know, you're gonna end up with nothing. 689 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: And I guess at one point when they finally decided 690 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 2: to get divorced, he said, you have a choice. I'll 691 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 2: give you this amount, or you'll decide to get lawyers 692 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: and at the end of it, you'll be homeless and bankrupt. 693 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 2: So take what I'm offering you now. And I remember 694 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 2: saying to this friend, So, like, I know, you think, 695 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: after all of these years, that he's God. Like I 696 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: know you think that he has full control. But that's 697 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 2: not how this works, you know, even though you're so 698 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 2: scared because you've been under the impression all these years 699 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: that what he says is law, you know, but I 700 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: love it. You're like talking about that that's. 701 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 4: Just not does not have to be the case, correct, 702 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 4: And if that's the if that's the reason you're staying 703 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 4: because you're afraid of the disparagy in the court system. 704 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 4: I have worked with shelters all over the country and 705 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 4: learned all about social services programs that are out there, 706 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 4: and there are a myriad of them that are very 707 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 4: hopeful in the custody arena for sure. Yeah. So if 708 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 4: that's a fear for anyone listening that is not, don't 709 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 4: let that be your hole back. 710 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 3: Wow. So when it came out on the show, did 711 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 3: you go home and tell Wrestful? 712 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 4: I went home and called my friend doctor Charlie Sophie, 713 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 4: who I actually credit for saving my life. 714 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 3: Really. 715 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was on the show with me in season one. 716 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 4: It was at the finale by my side. We were friends, 717 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 4: but he also runs children Family Services for Los Angeles 718 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 4: County and the foster program, and so he was someone 719 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 4: that I could confide in about my fears about the 720 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 4: custody and everything that was going on. 721 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 3: So he was there when you were going through all 722 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 3: of it. Wow. Yep. 723 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 4: After Camille outed it, then that's when I started engaging 724 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 4: with doctor Sophie and I talked to him and I said, 725 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 4: I can't put this genie back in the bottle. 726 00:34:59,120 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. 727 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 4: You like, this is going to come out, and so 728 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 4: we kind of mapped out, like you know how it 729 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 4: is with the editing and everything, like, Okay, when do 730 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 4: you think this is approximately and how much time do 731 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 4: we have to slowly figure out a plan here, And 732 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 4: so at that point I was talking with doctor Sophie 733 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 4: about like, we're going to have to let Russell know 734 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 4: because if he gets blindsided with this, it's it's going 735 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 4: to turn out worse, like that would be when the 736 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 4: rage would hit the all time high. So we started 737 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 4: going to a couple's counseling with Doctor Sophie. 738 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 2: But things getting I'm sorry, just so many things are 739 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 2: rushing into my head. But was it getting before it 740 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 2: came out? 741 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 5: Like? 742 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 3: Was it getting worse? 743 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: Because he'd seen himself in season one and so was 744 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: he was the abuse getting even you know, worse now 745 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: that he was conscious of how he was coming off. 746 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm just my head is spinning. You 747 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: must have been so scared. Yeah, and then it actually 748 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 2: does come out, I mean, was it? And again in 749 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,479 Speaker 2: season two? Was it he wasn't more nervous about looking 750 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 2: like an hole on camera? Or was he even more angry? 751 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 4: He definitely didn't like the way he looked on camera, 752 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 4: and there were people saying, oh, so this is a day. 753 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 4: I went on Wendy Williams and a bless her and 754 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 4: she said he abuses you, doesn't he? And I was like, no, no, 755 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 4: I mean, but it came out of nowhere, and of 756 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 4: course I wasn't gonna go Yeah, So I was like 757 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 4: in a panic because I knew when he was going 758 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 4: to all right episode he was gonna and so of 759 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 4: course I immediately just stuttered over and covered it up. 760 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 4: But it was evident to other people. There were people 761 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 4: were saying, like, you can tell he's controlling or he 762 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 4: seems scary. And it was interesting for me too because I, 763 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 4: as I was saying earlier, sometimes you need confirmation that 764 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 4: they're actually being abused, which it breaks my heart for 765 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 4: people just but I was in that realm too, because 766 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 4: he would say to me, what are you complaining about? 767 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 4: Like you have it all, you have the house, you 768 00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 4: have cars, you have black car, do you have the 769 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 4: time nanny? Like what are you bitching about? You know, 770 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 4: your life isn't so bad and you know, And so 771 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 4: then I would wrap my head around, Okay, wait, maybe 772 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 4: I'm not being abused because I'm being taken care of, 773 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 4: my daughter's being taken care of, and you know, And 774 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 4: then I could he could talk me into believing maybe 775 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 4: I'm not being abused, and he's he'd guessed like me, 776 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 4: just be like you're you're just crazy, you're too sensitive, 777 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 4: you're weak, you know, you're you're fine, and you have 778 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 4: this beautiful life. And then I would feel like, Okay, 779 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 4: I guess I have a lot to be thankful for. 780 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 4: And that's another thing that happens so frequently is where 781 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 4: we can have an abuser that is convincing us and 782 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 4: he would say, you're the only one that makes me 783 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 4: this way. You're the only person that makes me this angry, 784 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 4: and you make me act like this, And so I 785 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 4: could kind of say, Okay, maybe if I don't laugh 786 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 4: too much, then I won't set him off again, like 787 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 4: we talked about earlier, if I don't laugh too little, 788 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 4: then I won't set him off. So I would start 789 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 4: to think, okay, maybe that was my fault last night. 790 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 4: And it's such a common theme that that's how it 791 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 4: starts working, you know. 792 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 3: So you're talking to your off around it. Remember coming 793 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 3: to terms of that. 794 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 2: Some of my in terms of my childhood, like always 795 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 2: thinking it's it wasn't that bad, it wasn't that bad. 796 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: And then as I was as I got older, I 797 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: was like, wait a second, but again, I'm all over 798 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 2: the place, Taylor, because your story is so compelling, and 799 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 2: I don't mean it in like a beautiful, wonderful way. 800 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 2: I mean in like a very sad But you're so 801 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 2: open and honest about it. Of course I appreciate ye, Taylor. 802 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 2: There is so much more that I want to talk 803 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 2: to you about. You're my hero, and I have more 804 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 2: questions and more discussion to be had, But maybe this 805 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 2: is a good time. Just take a break, and you 806 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 2: guys will be right back with Taylor Armstrong