1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a two year 2 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: old little girl end up dead on the back porch 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: of the family home and nobody seems to have noticed? 4 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: I want answers crime stories with Nancy Grace. What happened 5 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: to Baby Melody? What a panel to try and apply 6 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: logic to an illogical situation in the balance hangs this 7 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: little girl, Melody Vang. First of all, take as to this. 8 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: Officers responded at two thirty am Sunday to a duplex 9 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: in the one thousand block of East third Street on 10 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: a report of an unknown incident. Upon arrival, they found 11 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: the girl naked except for a diaper, unconscious and unresponsive, 12 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: with large bruises on her face. The girl's father told 13 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: police he'd rolled her in a blanket and rug on 14 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: the family's back porch so the other children wouldn't see 15 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: the body. Paramedics pronounced her dead at the scene, rolled 16 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: her in a rug and later on the back porch 17 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: with me at all Star panel. First of all, my 18 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: friend and colleague from Hallmark, Jen Lily. You know her 19 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: as an actress, a singer, a star, but she is 20 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: also a nationally recognized child advocate and you can find 21 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: her at Jen Lily dot com and on Twitter at 22 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: gen Underscore Lily. Doctor John DeGarmo, leading foster care expert, Founder, 23 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: director of the Foster Care Institute, author of the Church 24 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: and Foster Care. You can find him at doctor John Degarma, 25 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: Fostercare dot com. Ashe Wilcott judge, trial lawyer, anchor Court 26 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: TV at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Doctor Teresa Gill, PhD, 27 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: Professor Psychology, psychotherapist, twenty five years working with child abuse 28 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: and trauma victims. Author of Women who Are Sexually Abused 29 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: as Children. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. 30 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Star on 31 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: the Tree, Crime Network, in Poisonous Liaison's Death investigator joining us. 32 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: Alexis terschat Crime online dot Com investigative reporter and special 33 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: Guests joining us. Daphne Young, the national Chief Communications Officer 34 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: at Childhelp dot org. First of all, you heard our 35 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: friends at crime online dot com. Now take a listen 36 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: to this. On January ten, Saint Paul Landlord saw disturbing 37 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: bruises on a toddler at his tenants home. He took 38 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: photos and reported the incident to child Protection. About twelve 39 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: hours later, in the early hours of January eleventh, a 40 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: man called the police non emergency line and officers arrived 41 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: at the home at two thirty am. Officers were led 42 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: to the backyard porch where they found the deceased body 43 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: of Melody Vang, wearing only a diaper and wrapped in 44 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: bedding and a rug. So disturbing on so many levels. 45 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: But to know that someone actually tried to help this 46 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: little girl hours before she has found dead and no 47 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: one helped, just rubs salt into the wound. Imagine a 48 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:50,559 Speaker 1: two year old little girl. Just last night I posted 49 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: a throwback photo of the twins and they were about 50 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: fourteen to sixteen months old, almost two. When I think 51 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: of a child that young, that helpless, that vulnerable, that's sensitive, 52 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: that's sweet. And to imagine this baby girl, melody and 53 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: naked except for a diaper rolled up and a rug 54 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: off the floor left on the back porch. Are we 55 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: going to actually stand for that in our society? Because 56 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you're the richest country in the world, 57 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter about the education levels, none of that matters. 58 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: What matters is how we treat those most defenseless, most vulnerable, 59 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: the weakest, and less cunning in our society. And if 60 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: this is an example, then we are not the leader 61 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: of the free world. To Alexis terrest, Chuck, what happened 62 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: to this little girl? This little girl had a tragic 63 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,119 Speaker 1: life from the minute she was born. She was born. 64 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: Wait a minute before I get to her Birthwatry, going 65 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: to circle back on. I need to ask you exactly 66 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: how police got there, who called, why was there a 67 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: hang up call, and why was the little girl on 68 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: the back porch wrapped in a rug? Her father called 69 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: the police. He called the police and said that there 70 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: was an incident in the home and they needed to come. 71 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: An incident. Yes, didn't explain, didn't didn't prepare them at 72 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: all for what happened. The police arrived and he said 73 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: to them, I need you all to be quiet, because 74 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: nobody knows that our daughter is dead. The police were stunned. 75 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: This was not but he just flat out told them that, Okay, Alexis, 76 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: you just told me something I didn't know. Let me 77 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: understand this. You've got a dead baby wearing nothing but 78 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: a diaper. And this is in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Yea 79 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: in January. It's freezing yep, and they've got her outside 80 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: and nothing but a diaper wrapped in a rug. And 81 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: they actually say, nobody knows she's dead. Did you just 82 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: tell me that I did? Okay, you know, right right there, 83 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: I've got to go to a shrink psychotherapist professors psychology 84 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: doctor Teresa Gill. Isn't that a little confusion on priorities? 85 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: So it's interesting because the reason he said it is 86 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: because there were five other children in the home. And 87 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: one of the reasons he said is that she started 88 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: to smell because she was going into rigor mortis and 89 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: they didn't want the other children to know. So it's 90 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: interesting how they're protecting five children, but would abuse a 91 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: child another child in the family and you know, kill her. 92 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: And the other interesting thing that I thought was how 93 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: sometimes in families, one child is the identified child to 94 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: take all the abuse, not that the other children aren't 95 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: suffering because they're witnessing what their parents can do. So 96 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: that keeps the other children in their place, It stops 97 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: them from acting out, It keeps them quiet, It keeps 98 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: them separate and away from their parents because they know 99 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: what their parents are capable of doing. But it's not 100 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: unusual to pick the one child who takes the abuse 101 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: and is the target of the abuse. And it sounds 102 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: like little Melody with the target of abuse. And it's 103 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: also interesting that the second leading cause of homicide for 104 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: children is within the preschool age, you know, between two 105 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: and five. You know, doctor Teresa Guil, everything he just said, 106 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: I felt like SACA bricks just hit me just hearing 107 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: and everything you said is true, but it's just let 108 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: me just say sobering as a euphemism to hear everything 109 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: you said, doctor Gill, did the father actually say the 110 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: child was beginning to smell? That is what it's said 111 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: in the honest paper report just got Morgan, death investigator. 112 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: If that's true, then the child would have been dead 113 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: for a period of hours at least. Yeah, And we 114 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: work on timelines, don't we, Nancy. What I do know 115 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: is in fact that the report said that the child 116 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: was in rigor mortis. And what this means is that 117 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:42,239 Speaker 1: the child had been deceased long enough so that rigidity 118 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: had set in. And we measure these things and at 119 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: that point, Tom, you're looking potentially potentially, we don't know 120 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: to what degree, because this is coming from a reporter, 121 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: not an actual scientific, you know examination, but you begin 122 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: to think about rigidity. We're looking at maybe six to 123 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: eight hours at this point in top, which is striking 124 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: when you think about it. And one more thing, Nancy, 125 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: that night in Saint Paul, it was twenty six degrees 126 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: twenty six degrees in Saint Paul, Minnesota on that night. 127 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: And this baby isn't a diaper. Just keep that in mind. 128 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just 129 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: joining us, we are talking about a two year old 130 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: little girl that's really hitting home. I just was looking 131 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: at a photo and posted of my twins at about 132 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: that age. How little they are, how defenseless, how weak. 133 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: This little girl was bruised across her body, black eye 134 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: cuts and scratches, and according to reports, rigor had set 135 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: in when the police arrived. The parents tells they rolled 136 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: her body in bedding and a rug so the other 137 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: children wouldn't see. But you know what the reality is, 138 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: Daphne Young joining me, the national Chief Communications Officer with 139 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: Childhelp dot Org. I bet the children saw the beatings happening, Well, 140 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: they don't want to see a rolled up in a rug. 141 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: But what about all the beatings this little baby took 142 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: absolutely even I think you're therapist at at best where 143 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: it's like a Cinderella syndrome. You pick one child as 144 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: the scapegoat and all the children watch that child be 145 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: tortured and harmed. And they said they put her in 146 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: a place called the timeout closet. Don't have a timeout 147 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: closet where your child is in a dark and closed 148 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: space for supposed discipline. And when those kids see that, 149 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: it traumatizes them, as was expressed, it makes them feel 150 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm next. And sometimes parents even pit the children against 151 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: one another so that the children get abused by their 152 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: own siblings because it's the only way to stay safe 153 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: and not to be the victim yourself. And it's heartbreaking. Guys, 154 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend David Sheman, a wccocbs MINS. 155 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: The same little girl that neighbor saw was found dead 156 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: on her family's back porch Sunday in Saint Paul. Officers 157 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: were checking on the home after police say a man 158 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: had asked for help over a non emergency line then 159 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: hung up. The girl's father was the one who called, 160 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: and he told officers when they arrived he thought his 161 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: daughter was dead. Anytime a three year old is dead 162 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: on a scene and it's suspicious. Joining you right now, 163 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: I'm not a special guest. It's Jen Lilly, my friend 164 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: at Hallmark, actress, singer, nationally recognized child abuse advocate. Generally, 165 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. If it weren't for you, Jen, 166 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: I would not have even known about Melody. What brought 167 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: melody story to you? Actually, what brought this story to 168 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: my attention was doctor John de Garmo, who I know 169 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: is also on the line. Doctor de Garmo and I 170 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: have been working federally to stop premature reunification, which is 171 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: when a child you know, is reunified with their parents 172 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: too soon. That's when you see these deaths occur. And 173 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: obviously this is a case where this child never should 174 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: have died. And further, the complications of that are that 175 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: when now the siblings have re entered care and they 176 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: are going to experience so much more trauma now they're 177 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: having to deal with the death of their sisters. So 178 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: this is an ongoing situation that has victims that are 179 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: still living that could have been prevented if premature reunification 180 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: had not taken place. To ask you, Jin, why you 181 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: are focused on premature unification, in other words, giving the 182 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: baby back to the parents that have already abused them 183 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: to the point the child's taken out of the home. 184 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: Then why in the world which you put the child 185 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: back in the home. One of the reasons I'm so 186 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: focused on that fancy is because of the statistics that 187 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: do come out of foster care. So currently in foster care, 188 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: you have over four hundred and thirty seven thousand children 189 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: in foster care. Of those who end up aging out 190 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: of the system, fifty percent will have a substance abuse problem, 191 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: ninety seven percent won't get a college degree, forty six 192 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: percent will be homeless at least once by the age 193 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,119 Speaker 1: of twenty six, and twenty five percent won't graduate high school. Furthermore, 194 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: eighty percent of inmates on death row or in foster care. 195 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: Seven out of ten girls who aged out of the 196 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: foster care system will become pregnant before the age of 197 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: twenty one and their children will end up in foster care. 198 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: And sixty percent of the sex trafficking victims we have 199 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: an anation came from foster care, and so foster care 200 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: is a cycle of abuse. When we see that in 201 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: this case, you know the mother Lee, she actually came 202 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: from foster care and that was something that she blamed 203 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: on her reasoning for murdering this child. You know, she 204 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: was abused. And I think in order to solve the 205 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: foster care problem, you have to focus on rehabilitating these 206 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: children as children, which is something that Child Helps us 207 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: so well, I'm so excited that Daffy is on this call. 208 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: Child Helps is incredible organization. I'm so glad you know 209 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: about them. But you know, unless these child children receive love, 210 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: unless they go into loving foster homes, that you're going 211 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: to have outcomes like this and the problem. Another problem 212 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: is that of children who have five or more foster 213 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: care placements in their lifetime will enter the justice system. 214 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: So you've got these five surviving civil excuse me if 215 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: it's not five, I believe it's five surviving siblings who 216 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: have now re entrough care. And furthermore, all six of 217 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: them were in the same loving foster home. Do you 218 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: know how hard it is to play six siblings in 219 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: one home. So they were in a safe and stable 220 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: foster home for the last two years all of Melody's life, 221 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: and now these five are re entering care and if 222 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: they go to five or more foster care placements, so 223 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: now they're into placement two three more. There odds are 224 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: ninety percent of them will end up in the justice system. Guys, 225 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Tyler Hunt. At crime Online. 226 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: Investigators interviewed the child's father and her mother, Twenty nine 227 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: year old Kiosha Lee. Lee admitted that she routinely abused 228 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: Fang far more than her other children. In the hours 229 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: leading up to Vang's death. Lee said she hit, punched, 230 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: and scratched her daughter several times because her crying woke 231 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: up the baby. She also said the victim had been 232 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: spoiled in foster care and was thrown to falling on 233 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: the floor and crying when she didn't get her way. 234 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: She said she beat her often and put her in 235 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: a time out clause at his punishment, adding that the 236 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: girl's father didn't know half of what she did physically 237 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: and mentally to harm the toddler. To even say those words, 238 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: my husband doesn't know half of what I did to her, 239 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: just as she willcot judge, trial lawyer anchor at Court 240 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: TV way in Nancy. I've got so much to say, 241 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: So first of all, I have to say I completely 242 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: agree with all the comments that have been made, and 243 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: I so appreciate that generally as someone who will advocate 244 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: as someone who's in the media and has a media 245 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: presence as a TV personality, TV star. And here's why, 246 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: because half the battle is education. I serve as a 247 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: judge in juvenile court and repeatedly these things happened, they 248 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: continue to happen. It's not okay, and nobody should be 249 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: able to live with this or sleep when they hear 250 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: about these crimes. But it continues to happen. So we've 251 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: got to continue educating people about all the statistics around 252 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: it and what needs to happen. Next, let me say this, 253 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: one of the thing people have to keep in mind 254 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: is judges have to apply the law, and so sometimes 255 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: the laws are such that if a parent rehabilitates and 256 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: does everything to remove the risk in the home originally, 257 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: the judge may not have a legal choice other than 258 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: to return the children. However, in this case, to have 259 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: someone who has done this level an amount of physical 260 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: abuse to a child and just return children. For parents 261 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: to have six children all at once when they've already 262 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: been abused and neglected, that's a red flag that it's 263 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: going to happen again, right, It's got to be really 264 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: cautious in that circumstance. And they weren't crime stories with 265 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know, we're talking about the death of 266 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: a beautiful to your old little girl who was singled 267 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: out by mommy for horrific abe. She has found dead 268 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: on the back porch, wrapped in a rug. Yes, Mommy 269 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: admits to it, but Daddy stood by and let it happen. 270 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, Daphney Young and they can 271 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: both get a one way ticket straight to h E 272 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: double L one way and don't pasco because he called 273 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: his brother before calling the police or anyone, so he 274 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: was strategizing on how to cover this up. And we 275 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: are so honored to have someone like Jen Lily. She 276 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: won't toot her own horn, but she is a phenomenal 277 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: foster mom, a phenomenal adoptive mom through Childhelp. She's our 278 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: child Help celebrity ambassador, and she is the example probably 279 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: the type of wonderful spoiling foster mom. You know, I 280 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: was horrified to hear this woman say that her child 281 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: was spoiled in foster care. What she was was loved 282 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: treated well, made to feel safe. Sure she's crying right 283 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: now because she was just ripped away from all of 284 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: them and handed to two people fresh out of rehab 285 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: for amphetamines and right out of a shelter. You want 286 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: to talk about premature reunification. These people were in crisis 287 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: and they were messed up, and they were handed this 288 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: precious child and these group of kids from probably a 289 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: great place when you think about someone like Jen as 290 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: a foster mom, and then you think throwing them back 291 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: with these you know, people that are drug addicts, and 292 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: in this awful scenario, it's just that is the place 293 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: where you know, the system has to step in and 294 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: create safety for these kids, you know, and they knew 295 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: the foster care parents were wonderful and Defects Department Family 296 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Children's Services knew that. But send them back into this 297 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: hill hole anyway, basically sending Melody, two year old Melody 298 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: to our own death. This little girl is dead. Who 299 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: is going to answer up for it? The judge that'll 300 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: allow them to be said back in the de facts 301 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: worker that said, sure they've been rehabilitated. Take a listen 302 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online. John Bang, Melody's father, 303 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: denied seeing Lee strike the girl that night, but the 304 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: forty two year old admitted to investigators that he had 305 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: seen her do so in the past. He accused the 306 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 1: child of being a drama queen and resistant to discipline. 307 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: According to the complaint, Melody's older siblings told a social 308 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: worker that both parents had a history of physical abuse 309 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 1: and kept Melody locked in a closet for hours on 310 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: end as punishment for misbehaving, sometimes being forced to stuff 311 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: food into her diaper so she would have something to 312 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 1: eat at night. One child described seeing Bang strike Melody 313 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: in the face with his fist about a week before 314 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: her death, and that his parents would sometimes beat Melody 315 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: with a wire hanger. You know, there were times, Alexis 316 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: Terrez Chuck, and we've discussed this before, when I would 317 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: go in front of a jury and I could hardly 318 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: say the words they would be so awful. But hearing 319 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: the report on what happened to this child, wild's it 320 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: just it's almost too much to take in. What else 321 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: do we know? Why would they send this child back 322 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: into the home. Well, their excuse is that the parents 323 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: had finished up their rehab. They had they had completed 324 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: their addiction treatment and they were clean and sober. But 325 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: the interesting well, I don't interesting in the right word. 326 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: The thing is the situation is nobody checks on these 327 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: children once they are reunited with the parents. In this 328 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: particular case, and I don't know about anywhere else, but 329 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: in this tregular case, they were reunited with their parents 330 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: and no one followed up to check on them. They 331 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: said that that was not the procedure that they do, 332 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: so they just put these kids in with parents who 333 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: were fresh out of rehab and fresh out of treatment. 334 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: When so many people that have drug problems relapsed, they 335 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: successfully complete rehab and then they relaxed, and these kids 336 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: were just leafting. This wasn't like these two were vegged 337 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: out on pot. No, they were into methamphetamin. Can I 338 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: jump make you crazy? Nancy? Can I judge? I gotta 339 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: tell you as a judge, here's one thing that we 340 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: can do as judges. We can be creative. We can 341 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: still follow the law. But one of the things I 342 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: can be creative about is say, listen, maybe it's time 343 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: for reunification, but as a condition, I need to know 344 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: that you all are going to check on them every 345 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: day once a week, and a report back to the court, 346 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: judges can be creative to make sure that children are 347 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: safe and still remain within the requirement of the law. 348 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: That's an excellent idea, Didjin Lily, That's certainly not what 349 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: happened here, No, absolutely not. And the fact that I 350 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: have a daughter who's almost two and I have a 351 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: two year old boy, it just shakes me to the 352 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: court that she's stun food in our diaper. I mean 353 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: that she would have the four thoughts, you know, the 354 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: survival thought as a two year old, I have to 355 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: store this food for later, and that's insane. I thought 356 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: it was interesting when I read that in the CPS report, 357 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: the workers said that one of the older children was 358 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: worried about going home because it was the first time 359 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: his mom and dad, who also had another baby, so 360 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: they had an eight month old that was not enforced 361 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: to care, so while the other five were enforced to care, 362 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: they had another child. And they said, my parents never 363 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: had six children all at once, So here you have 364 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: a little one that is keenly aware that they're going 365 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: into a vulnerable and volatile situation. And that it was 366 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: put in the report that the child said it by 367 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: the worker, but the worker didn't take heed. And there 368 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: was one other thing that happened where Melody was not 369 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: bonding to the mother in one of the visitations, and 370 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: the mother had mentioned it that somehow she felt rejected 371 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: by her child, and the worker said, she'll warm up 372 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: to you. But children know who's safe and who's not safe. 373 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: There's a thing called interception. It's what you like almost psychically, 374 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: feel if someone is safe to go near. And if 375 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: a mother is angry or depressed or has a mental 376 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: illness and her body is constricted and it stops her 377 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: from breathing or holds her body tight, a little two 378 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 1: year old is going to pick up on that and 379 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: know that it is not safe to get close to 380 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: that person. And those were two indicators right there from 381 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: the children that this was not a safe home and 382 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: it was not listened to. And a child's inability to 383 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: get close to a parent should be a barometer that 384 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: something is not okay, that the relationship is not insane. 385 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: You're hearing, doctor Teresa Guil, Professors Psychology and psychotherapist to 386 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: doctor John Dugarma Way in doctor an issue that I 387 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: across in January early January, right after the incident happened, 388 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: and I immediately started reaching out the journalists, immediately started 389 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: reaching out to senators and legislators in Minnesota. And I've 390 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: fell upon deaf ears, fell upon deaf ears, and I 391 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: thought to myself, I can't let this happen again. I 392 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: can't let this happen again. I've had over sixty plus 393 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: children come from my home as a foster parents. I've 394 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: had as many as eleven kids in my house at 395 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: the same time because the system is failing children. There's 396 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: not enough homes, more children flooding into a fostercare system, 397 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: not enough good homes, and many times agencies feel pressured 398 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: to reunify the children back into the homes because again, 399 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: is not enough homes, and this is what results a 400 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: tragic result. Jen gave a wonderful the true statistics earlier on. 401 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: I want to add the statistic as well, and I'm 402 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: very much pro reunification. Reunification can happen wonderfully when a 403 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: child is reunified with birth parents. But fifty fifty percent 404 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: of children in foscare are reunified with a birth parents. 405 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: Of that fifty percent, Nancy twenty to thirty percent come 406 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: back in foster care because it did not go right, 407 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: and those children who come back in the care are 408 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: far more traumatized. As a foster myself, I've had so 409 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: many children come to my home who go back to 410 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: their family members and then come back to my house 411 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: far more traumatized, filled with more anxiety. Melody should be 412 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: a rallying cry for our nation to fix the foster 413 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: care system. Crime stories with Nancy Grace to doctor John DeGarmo, 414 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: Jin Lily, doctor Teresa Gale, Daphne Young, I only have 415 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: anecdotal examples. I don't have the statistics that you have 416 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: in all of your studies, But I am completely against 417 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: parental reunification because sure, you may want a second chance 418 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: with your child, but that child's life has already been 419 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: forever tainted because whatever the parent did the first time. 420 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: I mean, why do we treat children like they're part 421 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: of an experiment? May Why would you give a child 422 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: a second dose of poison? I don't get why there 423 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: is reunification. I want to add that two of the 424 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: three children I've adopted from Foscare, our third generation fostercare 425 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: much like Melody's mother, which means their parents and their 426 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: grandparents were also in the FOSCAR system, and the system 427 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: failed them in some fashion. In fact, my daughter's birth 428 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: mother was prostitutored out by age nine. Though it's sometimes 429 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,719 Speaker 1: it's a generational cycle. When these children return home to generate, 430 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: the cycle can continue for the next generation. I do 431 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: want to add, though, there can be those times when 432 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: those parents are able to heal from their own pain, 433 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: able to heal from their own anxiety. I'm sorry to Garmo, 434 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: I just had to roll my eyes at you. Yeah, 435 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: maybe sometimes it works, maybe, but the stats are totally 436 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: against it. You just told me fifty percent of children 437 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: are returned to their parents, but twenty to thirty percent 438 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: of those children lamb back in foster. What does that 439 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: mean to me? A very slim percentage of reunification works. 440 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: Why risk it? Look, I know you guys are the experts. 441 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: I know you have the stats. But I know what 442 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: I know, and I know Melody is dead because of reunification, 443 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: and her brothers and sisters are going to grow up 444 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: knowing that their sister was murdered by mommy and Daddy 445 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: stood by and let it happen because of reunification. Why 446 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: use children as experiments if they want another on at parenthood? 447 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: Have another kid try that. I don't even condemn that. 448 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: I don't think you'd get a second chance to destroy 449 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: a child's life or murder them. That's a philosophical question 450 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: that turns real in cases like Melody reunited with her 451 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: drug abusing parents and Mommy ends up killing her. Guys. 452 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this court record show. Child Protection 453 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: Services took Melody from her parents after she was born 454 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: in September twenty eighteen, and she spent the next two 455 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: years in foster care with her siblings until twenty twenty. 456 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: According to court documents, the children were returned to Lee 457 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: and Bang, Melody's father, after both parents completed chemical dependency 458 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: treatment and mental health evaluations. A child protection worker wrote 459 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: in a June twenty twenty report that Lee said Melody 460 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: was confused about being home, noting she was doing well 461 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: with Fang but was having a hard time with the 462 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: older children. Reported they were happy to be home, but 463 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: one express worry that it was the first time his 464 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: mom and dad, who had another baby, had parented all 465 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: six children at once. How many times does it take 466 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: before we learn the lesson? Does anybody remember this case 467 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: of Trinity Chandler. Take a listen to this. This is 468 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: from w x y Z. To me, it looked like 469 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: healing from like two black eyes. It was two October's 470 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: when I made the report with Michigan State Police for 471 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: then today. On the face it was a couple months 472 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: prior that I had seen her with Marx under her eyes. 473 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: It was obvious abuse. They could have at least taken 474 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: her and had her space somewhere. That was a little Trinity, 475 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: a much light melody spotted with bruising in black eyes. 476 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: She stays in the home. This is what happens. Take 477 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w x y Z Detroit. 478 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: This is truly a sickening crime and even more appalling. 479 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: We've now learned Child Protective Services did a welfare check 480 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: on Trinity the very day before she died, and they 481 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: discovered injuries, but still chose not to remove her. During 482 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: a virtual arraignment, Police say Smart is the prime suspect 483 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: in Trinity's death. Sources confirm the young girl suffered bruises 484 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: and internal bleeding after being left alone with Smarts at 485 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: Groveland Manor Mobile home park in Groveland Township. Twenty nine 486 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: year old, showing no emotion and giving short answers as 487 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: he's charged with child abuse and torture. She ends up dead. 488 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: Does the name Thomas Valva or Ingabell take a list 489 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: of CBS two was no secret the eight year old 490 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: had been suffering. CBS two obtained abuse complaint records and 491 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: custody hearing transcripts. Those judges seemed like they just didn't 492 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: care what all the case workers, the CPSKIS workers also 493 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: they extremely responsible for what happened from Tommy twenty fourteen 494 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: to twenty nineteen. Twenty one nine one one calls to 495 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: Nasso police from the couple's Valley Stream home, mostly visitation 496 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: disputes twenty fifteen, contentious divorce battle begins. Court transcripts. Twenty seventeen. 497 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: Judge admonishing the mother, Justina, who is representing herself, desperately 498 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: raising her hand. He has failed to pick up our 499 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: children twenty nine times bio mom begging the judge don't 500 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: send him back, and this little boy ends up dead. Well, 501 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: there's so many I don't even know where to pick. 502 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: Let's go to cut twenty two. ABC seven. We're talking 503 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: about aj investigators with the Crystal Lake Police Department telling 504 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: us that they've been called to the home here in 505 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: Crystal Lake seventeen times just since AJ was born five 506 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: years ago. Now, this is an ongoing and active investigation 507 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: here in Lake County. The Crystal Lake Police Department telling 508 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: us they've had various reports detailing what they call unacceptable 509 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: living conditions in the past five years, along with alleged 510 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: drug abuse at the home and major concerns from the 511 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,479 Speaker 1: Department of Children and Family Services for both children's welfare 512 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: who lived inside of the home. Now one week and 513 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: J's family says he was last seen inside of his 514 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: bedroom at this home in Christa Lake. The search now 515 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: shifting to the nearby Sterns Woods and Veteran Acres Park, 516 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: where sources tell us so on our techn visions were 517 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: called to check out the water specifically looking for signs 518 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: of AJ. Of course, AJ is found dead and what 519 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: about little Caitlyn. Here's Fox twenty four. On Wednesday afternoon, 520 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: thirty seven year old Catherine Horton called nine to one 521 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: to report that her daughter was unresponsive. E and T 522 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: s transported the young girl to the hospital, where she 523 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: was pronounced dead. Horton's daughter, twelve year old Caitlin Yasbak, 524 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: likely died due to medical neglect and suffered excessive pain. 525 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: According to a preliminary autopsy, she died because of neglect. 526 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 1: She died because she was literally bitten by hundreds of LUTs. 527 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: That's why she died, mal nutritioned and dead by torture, 528 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: and mommy stood by and let it happen and defects. 529 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: I mean, what about Gabriel Hernandez. Take a listen to 530 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: CBS two LA in the hours before his death, Gabriel 531 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: lay in an emergency root his skull fractured, He'd been burned, 532 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: apparently tied up, he was missing skin, he had baby 533 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: pellets lodged in his lungs, growed up. Even though I 534 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: can't even stand to listen to it, I've got this 535 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: stack of similar cases of children that defacts Department Family 536 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: Shoulder's Services knows are being tortured, starved, beaten, locked in closets, 537 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 1: you name it, but they're sent back to the home 538 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: under the euphemism reunification. Daphne, help me. The thing that 539 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: disturbs me most about this case is you had a 540 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: window to save a life. So the landlord comes by, 541 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: guy takes the risk to take photographs and calls child 542 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Protective services, and here you have the perfect storm of like, hey, 543 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: I know these people, I saw the situation. I've got pictures, 544 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, all of you on here. Nancy as a lawyer, 545 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: you know when you've got photographs, that's like, yes, we 546 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: can move on this. We've got proof. And they knew 547 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: these children were in the system. No less, they knew 548 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: the circumstance. There's already a right up on these children files, 549 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: probably through the roof. And twelve hours later, this little 550 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: girl is dead. And there was a window of twelve 551 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: hours to come and rescue her. There was a window 552 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: of the moment that call came in to say, whoa, 553 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: this is a this is a flagged file. Let's run 554 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: out there and do something. What happened? What did happen 555 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: to Jen Lily joining me, my friend from the Hallmark Channel, 556 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: nationally recognized child advocate, Jen, What can we do? You know? Well, 557 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: I think first of all, I wonder a Daphne was 558 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: that called meine? Yes? You know what's the landlord called 559 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: the six to start with? Yeah, so that's the matter. 560 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: The child's black eye was reported. It does not matter, 561 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: you know. I think one thing that we need to 562 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: do is we need to evaluate the cases more because 563 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: sometimes children enter foster care because of neglect. Now, neglect 564 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: can range from a series of things. Sometimes it's just 565 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: a horrible situation where the mom and dad are without 566 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: a job and they don't have enough food, and they 567 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: haven't gotten welfare, and they haven't gotten the wrap around 568 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: and support services that they need. I think in those cases, 569 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: reunification is possible because you're not dealing with horrific abuse. 570 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: You're dealing with a family that's fell on hard times. 571 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: And I think that really how you solve that is 572 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: you get wrap around services from the government. I think 573 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: the church needs to stand up and wrap around these 574 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: families and love them. I think the solution is getting 575 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: more faith and loving licensed foster parents. And I'm not 576 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: sure why said it, but you know, education is key. 577 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: I think that's something that you do so well, Nancy. 578 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: I think that's something we can all agree on. We 579 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: have to recruit that our foster parents who are willing 580 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: to take the notes, who are willing to get their heartbroken, 581 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: who are willing to blow the whistle, and who are 582 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: willing to also wrap around the families because these families 583 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: aren't getting support. You know, reunification premature reunification that results 584 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: in death is going to happen all the time. Jen Lily, 585 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: you know what, You're a better person than me. There's 586 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: really no doubt about it. Because you're talking about wrapping 587 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 1: the families with love. I want them to go to jail. 588 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: I don't want them to stay there. That's just where 589 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: I'm coming from. I agree, I absolutely agree. John DeGarmo. 590 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: You know you and Jen Lily are on a much 591 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: higher plane than myself because I've seen so many dead 592 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: children at the hands of their parents, tortured in comas 593 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: and vegetative states for the rest of their lives, covered 594 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,959 Speaker 1: in cigarett at burns and bruises. I don't know why 595 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: more cases of this guilt are not death penalty cases. 596 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: Can you give me some kind of answer that we 597 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: can all understand, not statistics, not theories, how to stop this? Nancy, 598 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: those children you mentioned have lived in my home. Those 599 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: children have I've had those kids in my home with 600 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: cigaret burns in their tongue and their genitals. I've had 601 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: that in my home and it drives me every single 602 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: day and make the system a better system. That's why, 603 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: that's why Jen and I were in WASHINGTONDC last July 604 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: working with legislators, letting them know that all those children 605 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: you just mentioned our children on my radar. We've been 606 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,959 Speaker 1: speaking to legislators. This is why fostercare does not work. 607 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: As Jen says, you can bring in other services, you 608 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: can bring in faith based organizations and bring in the church. 609 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: It just can't be up to the government to help 610 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: the foster care system because it's a broken system. The 611 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: broken system. That is a great idea what you and 612 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: Jen are saying, to bring in other agencies such as 613 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: churches to recruit foster families. And I want everyone to 614 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 1: please look at the church and foster care. That's by 615 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: doctor John DeGarmo and to you, doctor Teresa Gill. Give 616 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: me something I can latch onto, some way we can 617 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: make a difference. Well, I think I work with mothers 618 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,399 Speaker 1: who have a history of abuse, and I think it's 619 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: important to remember that they were also children and that 620 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: their histories of abuse also included physical abuse, neglect, sexual abuse. 621 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: And I have a quote by Selima Freiberg, and she 622 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: says that a mother's inability to meet and respond to 623 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: her child's needs is a mother's whose own cries have 624 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 1: not been heard, and the understanding around that is, if 625 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: you have unresolved childhood trauma, what you did in terms 626 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: of defending yourself against the pain and the sadness and 627 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: the anger connected to your own abuse, it becomes the 628 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: defense system that stops you from being able to have 629 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: empathy towards your own children. And unless you work out 630 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: the all in pain, you're going to keep reenacting. I 631 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: appreciate that, doctor Gil. I appreciate that these moms were 632 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 1: I be used or neglected in their youth. I can't 633 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: do anything about that. I want to do something about 634 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: the children that are being abused right now. Joe Scott, 635 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: what did this child live through before she was put 636 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,439 Speaker 1: half naked on the back porch and a rug pure hill. 637 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: The child had been beaten multiple times. The child had 638 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: bruising and scratches all over, and this is documented prior 639 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: to the fatal incident. So this means that you've got people, 640 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: these individuals that are essentially an ongoing series of torture 641 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: to kind of drive this child into submission before them. 642 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: You know, I found it kind of interesting that the 643 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: dad used the term drama queen when he referred to 644 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: this precious little baby the hell are you thinking, drama queen. 645 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: She's three years old. You're locking her in a closet. 646 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: And for me, Nancy, I gotta tell you, I am 647 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: sick to my back teeth with defacts. We've heard the 648 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: same thing over and over again, Nancy. I participated in 649 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: over seven thousand autopsies in my career between New Orleans 650 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: and Atlanta. I never saw a single defacts worker come 651 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: to an autopsy. It should be mandated because obviously things 652 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: aren't going to change. But if you are directly responsible 653 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: for the life. I don't care about the parents, I 654 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: really don't. I look at the body before me. If 655 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 1: you're responsible for this child's life, you should be forced 656 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,879 Speaker 1: to go to the autopsy and witness the things that 657 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,879 Speaker 1: I've seen inhabit that space, the smells, the sounds, all 658 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: of the measurements, the injuries. Understand this damage that's being 659 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: inflicted on these children. You have to understand that because 660 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: obviously the workers don't care. They're not connected to this 661 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: in a visceral manner. If they were, we wouldn't have 662 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: ongoing homicides. And that's what this is. It's a plague 663 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: of murder. It's what this is. And it's been going 664 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: on for years and years, and the government will not 665 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: interdict it seemingly not to send out agencies to go 666 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: out and fail miserably over and over. If you believe, 667 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: or have reason to believe or suspect a child is 668 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: being abused, please call the Child Help National Hotline eight 669 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: hundred four a Child eight hundred four two two four 670 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: four five three Nancy Grace Crimes Story, signing off, goodbye friend,