1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: I've never told Reproductive I Heart Radio. Today we have 3 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: another episode of book club for you, and we are 4 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: very excited to be talking about Unapologetic, a Black Queer 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: and Feminist Mandate for Radical Movements by Charlene A. Carruthers. 6 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: And this is a very timely book for a lot 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: of reasons, probably a lot of them obvious. It takes 8 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: a look at Black intellectual thought and organizing and grassroots 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: movements like the Haitian Revolution, civil rights movement here in 10 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: the United States, UM, feminism, and the l g B, 11 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: t Q plus movements to provide a flexible model for 12 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: for organizing, while also calling for a more queer and 13 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: feminist approach to Black liberation and a more radical approach 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: as well. The book delves into all the tools of 15 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: white supremacy that white supremacy uses to function to keep 16 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: oppressors in power, tools like the patriarchy and feminism and 17 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: homophobia and able is um through her years of organizing. 18 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: Cather's also has recommendations for improving the longevity and effectiveness 19 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: of social justice movements with things like healing justice within 20 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: these movements themselves, and developing leaders, so very very timely. Yes. 21 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: She also re examines several of the common issues that 22 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: come up and organizing, the unhelpful comparisons to pass movements, 23 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: or the generational disconnect social media. In fighting burnout questions 24 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: of accountability, Penning hopes on one single leader pastor in 25 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: present and only remembering the good things that leader did 26 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: and not the problematic aspects and how that hinders social 27 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: justice movements and knows what she's talking about. She wrote, quote, 28 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: since I have steered the growth and development of by 29 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: P one, which is the Black Youth Project one D 30 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: and one of the most prolific and integral black liberation 31 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: movement organizations of the twenty first century. Yes, um, and 32 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: I very much enjoyed this book. It's a pretty quick 33 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,119 Speaker 1: quick read, but there's just so much a wealth of 34 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: information in there. Um. Yeah, So if you haven't read 35 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: it yet, highly highly recommend that you do. We did 36 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: want to start with some definitions before we get too 37 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: much into discussion, because just so we're all on the 38 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: same up page. So one is queer, um Caruthers defines 39 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: it quote queer, as I am defining it here represents 40 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: a continuum of possibilities outside of what are considered to 41 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: be normal sexual or gender identities and behaviors. And she 42 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: defines the black queer feminist lens as she says, quote, 43 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: the Black queer feminist lens is a political practice, practice, 44 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: and theory based in Black feminists and LGBTQ traditions and 45 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: knowledge through which people and groups see to bring their 46 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: full cells into the process of dismanting all the systems 47 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: of oppression. So this Black queer feminist lens is so 48 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: important throughout the book, um and as frequently shortened to 49 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: b q F. But it's her approach is all about 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: centering that UM, using that as not only a guidance 51 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: but in the title like a mandate, UM, just really 52 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: using it to to inform how to organize and just 53 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: kind of an understanding that that's what's being left out 54 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: in most movements and why it's so important today exactly. Yeah, um, 55 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: And we also wanted to include this quote that from 56 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: the book about the unique oppression of black people. Anti 57 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: blackness is assists of beliefs and practices that attack, erode, 58 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: and limit the humanity of black people. It was cultivated 59 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: through the Transatlantic slave trade and continues today in the 60 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: policies and practices of nation states, corporations, individuals, and entire societies. Right, 61 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: so we did want to talk a little bit about themes. 62 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: UM Corruthers makes an impassion and informed case for the 63 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 1: power of organizing. Early on in the book, she quotes 64 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas quote power conceives nothing without a demand, and 65 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: she says, I believe that we must go further and 66 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: say that power can seves nothing without an organized demand. Right, 67 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: so let's talk about organizing. It's pretty key in the book, UM. 68 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: She writes organizing by using the black queer feminist lens, 69 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: calls for us to be individuals and to work collectively, 70 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: with neither being at the expense of the other. And 71 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: that that's one thing I really loved about UM her approach. 72 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: And this isn't really an autobiography. She there are some 73 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: personal stories throughout, but UM there it's more less than 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: has learned and history just this all of this history 75 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: of UM black liberation movements and radical movements. UM. But 76 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: I loved how she really emphasized that there needs to 77 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: be both sort of this individual what do I want one? 78 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: Am I fighting for? What do I want to see? 79 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: But also collectively, because you can achieve something in a 80 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: vacuum like you need to work together UM. She also 81 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: talks about activism versus community organizing, two important foundations UM 82 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: developing leaders and strategizing to take action. UM also note 83 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: not all community organizing is radical. Many work to keep 84 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: systems of oppression in place, and those callouts are pretty hard. Yeah, 85 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: you read the book, so asking yourself, what world do 86 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: you want to build and what do you want for 87 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: future generations? Who are you? Who are your people? What 88 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: do you want? What are we building? And are we 89 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: ready to win? Yeah? Having those answers in place UM 90 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: will really help guide you and what you feel that 91 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: you can contribute and what you do want to see 92 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: and what you're fighting for. Because UM burnout is a 93 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: big problem, and she discusses the killing of black imagination 94 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: along with that of imagining what this world that you're 95 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: fighting for could look like UM, and the importance of 96 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: that imagination when it comes to envisioning this world that 97 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: you want to to live in and you want future 98 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: generations to live in. UM. She also discusses the importance 99 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: of transformative change as opposed to reforms UM. So for example, 100 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: she describes a quote from black actress I believe of 101 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: black women being at the bottom of the social ladder 102 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: um and hanging on to that bottom rung and care others. 103 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: Is a proponent of imagining a different ladder, like, instead 104 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: of that you've got to climb this letter, why do 105 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: we have to have that ladder at all? Let's think 106 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: outside of that. Let's get a better letter. Yeah, are 107 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: no ladder? Who knows the ladders? Yeah, I'd be lovely. 108 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: She also talks about the need for accountability in organizing 109 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: and um. One of the things that she does talk 110 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: about within her own organizations is very raw is the 111 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: example of the me Too movement within their own organization. 112 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: She writes, she writes an amazing personal manner that it 113 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: really does feel like it hits close to home for anyone, 114 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: and honestly is true. If the truth is that there 115 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: are more women that are victimized than not, then we 116 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: must also know the perpetrators of these YEA incidents, and 117 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: we have to hold that person or even just that 118 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: accountable about what it is and what it seems. And 119 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: and if we truly are saying believe women UM and 120 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: believe victims, then how do we actually do that in 121 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: regards to people we know that people we respected and 122 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: worked with, UM and just realizing at the same time 123 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: that these truths can be devastating. And I found her 124 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: relaying of incidents with that happening with her leadership in 125 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: her own program was really beautifully raw. Of course there was. 126 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: It was kind of one those levels of how do 127 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: we handle it, what does it come down to, and 128 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: how do we hold our own accountable and without completely 129 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: ostracizing someone and completely giving up on someone by the 130 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: same time making sure that they take responsibility in their 131 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: part to this. So it was definitely a nice insight 132 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: to see how she opened up about her own struggles 133 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: and trying to come face to face when she has 134 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: to be the one that says, what do we do, 135 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: how do we handle this, and what do we do 136 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: when it's our friend? Mm hmm. Yeah. I really appreciated 137 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: that too, and I could feel like the anxiety in 138 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: my own stomach reading that what would I do? UM? 139 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: And I've thought about it because unfortunately, as you say, 140 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: the numbers just indicate, right, I probably do know someone 141 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: who's done there's been involved in some kind of non 142 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: consensual sexual thing, and that's a scary thought of what 143 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: what you would do, but I you know, you have 144 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: to have to hold people accountable for their actions. You 145 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: have to live out what you say. And if we 146 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: truly believe that victims need to be believed, and there's 147 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: so much connotation to how do we do that and 148 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, how do we do that as 149 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: an organization that's supposed to be a leadership organization to 150 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: impact these type of wrongs and to make change these 151 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: types of wrongs. That's a whole big nutshell that you 152 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: have to do. At the time her this organization by p. 153 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: One hundred was in like the National Spotlight before this happened, 154 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: like it was a very stressful. Um oh yeah um. 155 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: So we do have other themes that we wanted to 156 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: touch on, but first we have a quick break for 157 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: a word from our responsors and we're back, thank you, 158 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: sponsor something else the book examines that we wanted to 159 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: discuss is gendered violence and anti blackness. So in the 160 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: book she quotes Beth E. Ritchie, who is a scholar 161 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: and anti violence activists, and Richie wrote surrounding the violence 162 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: matrix is the tangled web of structural disadvantages institutionalized racism, 163 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: gender domination, class exportation, hetero patriarchy, and other forms of 164 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: oppression that lock the abuse of Black women in place. 165 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: Responses need to be developed to take all the forms 166 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: of abuse and all of the spheres within which injustice 167 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: occurs into account. Carruthers uses the b qve in Hriichie's 168 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: violence matrix to demonstrate how all of this violence is 169 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: connected social spheres, communities, home, governments, corporations, and how the 170 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: US normalizes violence against Black people, women LGBTQ plus community 171 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: by limiting access to healthcare, not allowing self determination, and 172 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: in who gets funding. Yeah, so really driving the point 173 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: home that all of these things are connected. Um. You 174 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: can't separate out uh sort of structural violence and say 175 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: this is the only problem, but you have to recognize 176 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: the influence they have on each other. Um. She is 177 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: also adamant about not leaving people Outrother's is of being 178 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: inclusive in these movements. She writes, patriarchy and its offspring 179 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: homophobia and trans phobia have no place in our movement. 180 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: To allow these to go unchecked is counter revolutionary. If 181 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: your liberation movement as people on the sidelines are absent altogether. 182 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: Then it's not really a liberatory and leader. She goes 183 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: on to say, I want the lie that black people 184 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: cannot be black, queer, trans and women at the same 185 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: time to die a swift death. Right. I mean, she 186 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: hits those points pretty quickly, pretty fastly throughout the book. Um, 187 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: and she's the studying black liberation movements. Corrothers identifies three 188 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: commitments movements should collectively make to regenerate. So one is 189 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: a building many strong leaders. That means knowing your self interest, 190 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: which that's just a lofty goal in the South, that's 191 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: just like a year long meditation session. Um. And also 192 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: not quote passing the torch, um, the need for multiple 193 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: strong leaders and room to grow instead of just pulling 194 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: at your own the ones that you know. It should 195 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: have an ability to bring in new ideas, new people. Right. 196 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: I love that. Um. It was a quote she was 197 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: quoting somebody I can't remember who, um, but about passing 198 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: the torch, and he said there is no torch to pass. Um. Like, 199 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: if you're just waiting around for somebody to say, give 200 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: you that torch, yeah, then you're not going to get 201 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: much done. Um. The importance of creating spaces for healing, 202 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: she writes in the words of car page from the 203 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Kindred Healing Justice collective. Healing Justice identifies how we can 204 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: holistically respond to and intervene on generational trauma and violence 205 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: and to bring collective practices that can impact and transform 206 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: the consequences of oppression on our bodies, hearts, and minds. Yeah. 207 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: She also speaks about how the term self care needs 208 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: to be rephrased, and it kind of hit me because 209 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: of what we actually need is the care of others 210 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: to help us and to help each other. And it 211 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: can't just be done by ourselves, but by your trusted collective. 212 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: And I know it's such a small bit of the book, 213 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: but it doesn't hit me pretty quickly. And they've obviously 214 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: hit her too, because she kind of sat there as 215 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: she was speaking with a mentor and they said that 216 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: they were she was just like, wait, oh wait what, Yeah, 217 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: I guess that's true that if it's a movement, if 218 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: we're part of a movement, if this is a collective, 219 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: we need those that we trust to help us in 220 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: our care of ourselves as well. Yeah, And that that 221 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: part um of the book really personated with me too, 222 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: just because I, um, she talks a lot about how 223 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: this work can be almost always is very traumatizing, and 224 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: when you're in it all the time, just the physical toll, 225 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: not only mentally and emotionally, but the physical toll it 226 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: can take UM. And then as you say, we say 227 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: this in so many episodes that I don't think it 228 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: was this one, but in a recent one, Um, that 229 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: can take you out of the game in which you're 230 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: not helping anybody. But it's it can be so hard 231 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: to tell yourself when there's so many things, so many 232 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: injustices and wrongs to be corrected. There's discoal well, I 233 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: have to keep going. I have to keep going, almost 234 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: like I don't. I don't have time. It's not worth stopping. 235 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: But you do need to take those moments and and 236 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: have people in your community kind of share that with 237 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: you and help you so that you can regenerate, which 238 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: is what this whole is all a part of, so 239 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: that movements and they don't die out or people just 240 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: keep putting out of them. Right. And I did love 241 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: also she did talk about because it was so me. 242 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: It's it is so me. It's especially being new to 243 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: actually being a voice as opposed to being behind this 244 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: scene about being silenced and being so traumatized that you 245 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: are silence, that you do the bare minimum because you 246 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: are petrified or just triggered so hard, like you're emotionally 247 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: physically not able to put into words what needs to 248 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: be done, so therefore you just sit silently and waiting, 249 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: which is more harmful as well, which is like a 250 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: double whar me. And she talks about that so loudly 251 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: and about what that meant that she was saying that 252 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: she would make a point but not make a point, 253 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: that she would share something but not go to the 254 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: depth of it because she couldn't put into words the 255 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: trauma and the pain, because she was continuing to suffer 256 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: from the trauma and the pain, whether it was from 257 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: the path experiences or just being revictimized to that moment 258 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: and being triggered in those moments from your past trauma. 259 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, damn, girl, you just got me. 260 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: You just got through real hard because I to me, 261 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: one of the hardest things as an ally is to 262 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: know when to speak and to know when not to speak. 263 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: And because of the trauma that I've and both of 264 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: us have gone through as children or as uh later on, 265 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: in our adolescens and being silenced so hard through whether 266 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: it was through violence, whether it was through abuse, UM, 267 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: or whether it was just pure neglect in general, that 268 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: it kind of sits on you in a way in 269 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: the level that you that emotions to try to bring 270 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: that courage up to stand up for something that you 271 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: know it is important, and it is a heavy, heavy issue. 272 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: It's stunting. It literally puts you in a place that 273 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: you cannot grow, and not only that, you're frozen to 274 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: try to put any action. So she talked about that 275 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: and and going beyond that, but it was, uh, it 276 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: was too close to home for that one. Yeah. Yeah, 277 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: and that's that's a good segue into UM. So that 278 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: was part one of her three commitments that she thinks 279 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: movement should collectively make to regenerate. The second one is 280 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: adopting healing justice as a core organizing value and practice, 281 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: and then, uh, the third one is combating liberalism with 282 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: principled struggle. UM. She compares social movements to the human 283 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: body to two cells, like human beings being cells. UM. Again, 284 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: this one was challenging for me because she isn't talking 285 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: about the damage of white liberalism, although she does include it, 286 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: but liberalism as a whole, and how it has been 287 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: bogged down by good intentions and honestly mixed with, if 288 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: not grounded with the idea of capitalism and the growth 289 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: of capitalism and the change of a movement that is 290 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: too easy to compromise. And I guess honestly we can 291 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: say this is where we are in our presidential like, 292 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: this is exactly where we have come into this moment 293 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: of liberalism to me, at one point in time was 294 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: about freedom and rights and justice. But as we talk 295 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: about what is happening, liberalism is starting to become more 296 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: of white speak for compromise and don't change too much. 297 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: But I want to be better human than that person, right, 298 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: you know? And Joe I was like, uh uh, I'm 299 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: not sure I can quite I'm not exactly sure if 300 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: I can swallow all of this, but I hear you 301 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: in Dawn that's a lot. Yeah. Well, she she definitely 302 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: goes into into that, and that's one of the things 303 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: I really appreciated about her writing as well as she's 304 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: um very she doesn't romanticize things. So she talked about 305 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: the Obama era, like the good things but also all 306 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: these bad things and That's why she stands on is 307 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: that you cannot, as we said at the beginning of 308 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: her her whole thing was, you cannot sit here and 309 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: pretend everything was great when it wasn't. Yeah, and you 310 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: have to acknowledge the faults in order to progress and 311 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: to make change. Yeah, and that is she makes that 312 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: point throughout, and I really really appreciated it because it's 313 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: true if you're like ignoring all these other issues that 314 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: are happening, if you're not using this um black queer 315 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: feminist lens and are okay with these injustices, are they're 316 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: just not in your your you're not worried about them, 317 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: then yeah, things aren't going to change and the system 318 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: will continue on. So I really appreciated how she did that. 319 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: And she did bring up with the liberalism and white liberalism, 320 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: how it is so often um black women working to 321 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: get Democrats elected or that has been the case for 322 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 1: a long time, and then not getting anything that they 323 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: asked for being largely ignored. Yeah. Yeah. Another key aspect 324 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: of the book and of organizing is understanding history and context, 325 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: and in this sense, the history of black people and 326 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: black radical movements. So Carruthers focuses in on a couple 327 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: of things, but one of them is the history of 328 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: modern day Haiti, which was previously the militarized colony of 329 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: San Domingo, which became the Western Hemisphere's first independent black nation. 330 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: She uses Ella Baker's understanding of radicalism here quote. In 331 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: order for us, as poor and oppressed people, to become 332 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: part of a society that is meaningful, the system under 333 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: which we now exist has to be radically changed. This 334 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: means that we are going to have to learn to 335 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: think in radical terms. I use the term radical in 336 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: its original meaning getting down to and understanding the root cause. 337 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: It means facing a system that does not lend itself 338 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: to your needs and devising means by which you change 339 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: that system. So, before the eighteen o four Haitian Revolution, 340 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: enslaved Africans died from overworking or violence. Within ten yared 341 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: on average over one mill in. Haitian freedom fighters overthrew 342 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: the French colonizers and established a black republic, the first 343 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: in the Western Hemisphere. This disrupted the trade for France, 344 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: the UK, and the U S, and these countries made 345 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: sure to make things ridiculously difficult for Haiti, creating and 346 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: exacerbating things like poverty as we can see today, and 347 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: she expounds on this and hammers home the importance of 348 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: telling the stories of black radical traditions and recognizing contradictions 349 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: to move forward, like the historical lack of LGBTQ plus voices, 350 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: the lack of women's voices, and some of these movements 351 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: um even though a lot of times they were the 352 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: ones doing the work, and a lot of these histories 353 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: are missing from our popular narrative, the history that we 354 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: popularly tell um. She uses the case of Mrs Rec Taylor, 355 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: who in was kidnapped and raped by ten white men 356 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: and boys. Investigating this, Rosa Parks organized bringing together prominent 357 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: black activists and organizations in Alabama where this occurred to 358 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: create the Alabama Committee for Equal Justice for Mrs Rec Taylor. 359 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: The Chicago Defender labeled this campaign as the strongest effort 360 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: for equality in a decade led black black women. This 361 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: campaign drew level support and coalitions previously unseen or at 362 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: least around that time, very very rare to see something 363 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: like that for combating the sexual violence of black women 364 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: and girls face and it became key in the fight 365 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: for black liberation taking place, but is largely not told 366 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: is largely forgotten, which and another example she gives is 367 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: Bayard Rustin, an openly gay black man being pushed aside 368 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: for a quote more palatable black leaders, or the stories 369 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: of Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera that we touched 370 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: on in our Protest and Organizing episodes. Yeah, and she 371 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: she makes the point that there's so much power and 372 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: seeing yourself reflected um in people like this in the 373 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: liberation movement, the value of it when it comes to 374 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: dismantling homophobia and transphobia in particular, but just being able 375 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: to to see these people making these changes, being fighting 376 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: this fight and being powerful in it and then thinking, 377 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, we always say if you can see what, 378 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: you can be it. It's just I don't know if 379 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: people I think people often forget that. We mean that 380 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: outside of representation and entertainment, right, I think it's changed 381 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: as the way at It's like, if you don't see it, 382 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: become it. Yeah, I know, that's become the new kind 383 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: of power thing is oh, we don't have that, let 384 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: me try this, right, And I love that. I love yeah, 385 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,239 Speaker 1: And I mean it definitely is changing now when we 386 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: look at who is leading a lot of these social 387 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: movements are and I like again what they were before this, UM, 388 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: we just weren't seeing them or hearing about them as 389 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: much that you have to go through these depths of 390 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: right crisis in order to be willing to see who 391 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: actually have been trying to push it forward. We've just 392 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: been in a system where it is not advantageous for 393 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: us to know of them. Yeah. Yeah, And she makes 394 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: the point like you have this big Hollywood movie with 395 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: Seawan Penn, like multimillion dollar for Milk, but you don't 396 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: have like anything for Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera. 397 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: What if we did like the same funding, not just 398 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: uh like on the same level. Right, Yeah, yes, so 399 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: we do have a little bit more for your listeners, 400 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: But first we're going to pause for one more group 401 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank 402 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: you sponsoring. We just wanted to touch on a few 403 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: points UM that maybe particularly hit home or resonated with 404 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,719 Speaker 1: us and UM. One for me was I really appreciated 405 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: her honesty in terms of feeling doubt or that she 406 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: wasn't sure what to do at times, UM and making 407 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: mistakes and growing and recognizing that UM and She shares 408 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: the story of a conversation she had with somebody who 409 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: she was working with and he said, uh, you know, 410 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not fully woke, but I'm pretty woke 411 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: or something like that. He says, uh, I'm not quite 412 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: I'm not fully woke, but I'm waking up. Yeah. But yeah, 413 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: basically being um, there you you want to have room 414 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: to grow. There's no instance where being like, oh, I'm 415 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: perfect right now, I don't need anything else. That's never good. 416 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of times, um, we 417 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: hold ourselves back, or we hold ourselves too unachievable standards 418 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: that do prevent us from being as effective as we 419 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: can be when it comes to fighting for change. And 420 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: I know we've talked about that in specific before when 421 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: it comes to feminism and how for a long time 422 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: I felt like, well, here are all these example I 423 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: would have like examples, Well I'm not a good feminist 424 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: because of this and this, So how can I speak 425 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: about it? Um? And it held me back and it 426 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: kept me quiet, And that's the opposite of what we 427 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: want and need right now. And when I when I 428 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: do think on it, especially as I've been on this show, 429 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: there are things I look back that I've said or 430 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: done or our times that I've really failed that I 431 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: wish so desperately I could change. And it did keep 432 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: me quiet, and it did keep me afraid for a 433 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: long time. UM, but I learned from those things. Like 434 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: as painful as it still is, I'm not gonna lie. 435 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: So this is still painful. I did. I learned from it. 436 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: And you can't let that stand in the way of 437 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: doing something, all right, Well, like we were talking about 438 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: just being silenced and being so traumatized that we are 439 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: silence and she did talk about also about um, not 440 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: just canceling people without actually teaching people, and that's not 441 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: the way to go either. UM. And we've talked about 442 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: this before, and we've talked about cancel culture before. And 443 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: I know that's a big subject right now with the 444 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: Harper's article. We're not we're not going to talk about 445 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: but in the fact that there's nothing, nothing happens. No 446 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: change happens just by saying you're wrong and dismissing them. 447 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: But change happens when you can teach and and and 448 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: show them what is the better or why is wrong 449 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: or what's happening. Um. Of course the conversation would also 450 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: be laid at the fact that we put that on 451 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: most of the times the marginalized community. We put that 452 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: on people's holders who should not have to be responsible 453 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: to be the burden to teach us or teach others 454 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: um and on all of this, but yeah, I think 455 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: it was she was good at bringing up so many 456 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: good points, all like large and small, that I was 457 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: just like, Okay, how do I grasp all these? And 458 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: she did talk about education, um and the work never 459 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: being done and that's a part of our responsibility as well. 460 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: But she she also did talk about that anti blackness 461 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: is adaptable in the face of resistance to oppression UM. 462 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: And I found that really like, oh, that's that's true. 463 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: It is um And whether it's adaptable for people to say, 464 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: but I'm not as racist as this, or I'm not 465 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: as racist as that, and that's still anti blackness when 466 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: you say in terms of these levels um. And she 467 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: talks about this also as an educational access being privileged 468 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: UM And again I think that's kind of goes without saying, 469 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: which is part of the problem we see all the 470 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: time is who has afforded the better education and why 471 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: and why is it so limited and why is it 472 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: so um segregated for making sure those who are already 473 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: in the good spot to be elevated would continue to 474 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: be elevated as not given to the opportunities for those 475 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: who may have never had that same opportunities. And I 476 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: thought that was really good conversation about that as well, 477 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: about growing and how not only do we need to 478 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: look at those as problematic, but we also need to 479 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: be willing to share that wealth of knowledge as well. 480 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I love that too, And I think 481 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: that's something super that's so important that we do share. 482 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean exactly what she did, she didn't book form, 483 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: but we share our knowledge of how how do we 484 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: make these things work? Or um, what are lessons? And 485 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: I've learned through my experience that I can share to 486 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: someone who is a younger person, are looking to lead, 487 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: or both of those things. Um, so that's not intimidating 488 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: and you can just be open with your experiences and 489 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: it it just it's like the opposite of gate keeping, 490 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, you're like opening the gates. Yes, we need 491 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: to come up with a term for this, I'm sure, yes, 492 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: Well it'll come to us later. How simple it was, Um, 493 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: just Welcoming Committee, the banned welcoming Committee. It's being transparent, 494 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: and I mean she's very open about the kind of 495 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: radical honesty, right why is unapologetic And I love that 496 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: everything about this is that. That's why I think is 497 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: an easy read, but a hard read, because everything matters, 498 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: all of those conversations like yes, okay, oh okay, I 499 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: don't know if I oh okay. Everything in all of 500 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: that is how she kind of just make sure that 501 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: you're aware that she's seeing these problems. She's had time 502 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: to sit down and have conversations with people and seeing 503 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: in the system and see why it doesn't work. And 504 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: this is why this has to be talked about and 505 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: it's all important. And I don't have time to be 506 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: just cute and give you acute see analyzation of what 507 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: might be wrong. It's literally here it is. I'm not 508 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,959 Speaker 1: going to apologize for how honest it is and how 509 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: organized it is. Like she is absolutely there with a 510 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: plan as a plan, MH as a guide. Yeah oh yeah. 511 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: And one of the things she touched on that I 512 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: really liked um is the importance of a multi proct approach, 513 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: that there's not just one way to be an activist 514 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: or to organize that we do need all of these 515 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: different ways working in tandem, working together. Um. And you 516 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: can tell like she's seen some of this in fighting 517 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: of people kind of judging others for this is the 518 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: way to do it and no other way. Yeah. Um, 519 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: but again that's keeping people out. You don't want to 520 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: keep people out who are in this fight, right And yeah, 521 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: she definitely does an amazing job highlighting black queer women 522 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: who organized in history and also just acknowledging what they 523 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: had to do in order to dismantle so much of 524 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: what is happening today. So she does an amazing job 525 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: and making sure she she highlights black queer women who 526 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: have organized in history and acknowledging that in order to 527 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: dismantle so much of what is happening is to dismantle 528 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: sexism and racism and that one without the other is 529 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: not fruitful. She does an amazing job and making sure 530 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: we have a conversation about why intersectionality is so important 531 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: and what that truly truly means. Um, which again she 532 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: talks about UH women in history, queer women of history, 533 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 1: queer identifying gender nonconforming UH communities who would come together 534 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: and or maybe on their own to try to dismantle 535 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: the entirety of what is the problem in this, not 536 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: one without the other, and talking about why these people 537 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: are so important and why it's been failing because oftentimes 538 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: one ignores the other and you can't do that, whether 539 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: it's the suffragette movement with the white women saying you know, 540 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: it's all about us, or versus some of the even 541 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: civil rights movement which talks about only black men and 542 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: acknowledging only black men. Um. So I think that's kind 543 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: of conversation that has to be the bigger point is 544 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: we have to dismantle both in order to see any 545 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: type of reform. Yeah. Um yeah, and able is m 546 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: as well. So many so many things about being intersectional 547 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: that we do have to keep in mind, and they 548 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: are all connected. Uh. And yeah, I guess in conclusion, 549 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: this very timely, very much needed, uh, centering black queer 550 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: women who have been doing the work and getting things 551 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: done and what we can learn from them throughout history 552 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: and right now without forgetting or erasing them. Are being 553 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: like a white lady showing up to your first protest 554 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: and like I know what to do, listen to me, 555 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: no no, um, sharing knowledge about what has worked for 556 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: her and what hasn't, um lessons she's learned how to 557 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: move forward. It really is a great primer on organizing 558 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: and how we can be more efficient as we move forward, 559 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: and also acknowledging that we have to allow the black 560 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: queer women to lead or those identifying as women to 561 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: be the leader in movements like this and why that's 562 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: important and not trying to overtake for our own purposes. Yes, yes, yes, 563 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: um so definitely definitely recommends. Um we uh love getting 564 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 1: these recommendations from you because I know some of your 565 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,959 Speaker 1: listeners wrote in about this one. Please keep sending those. 566 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: We got to choose our next book and we want 567 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: your help to do it. Our email is Steph Media 568 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can 569 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: also find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told 570 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: You or on Twitter app Mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as 571 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard, Thank you, and 572 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You 573 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: the protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 574 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, 575 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.