1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles to Be, Chuck Bryant, and we 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: can hear Jerry Clear's a bell so she's here with us. 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: And this, of course it's Stuff you should know. True crime. Yeah, 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: let's mud say sort of, but it really is true crime. 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: It's just it's not necessarily murder. E No, but it's 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: stocky and I hadn't really realized it until I saw 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: it spelled out a few times that this is a 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: huge stalk in case, one of the weirdest, creepiest, most 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: mysterious stalking cases of all time. Yeah, but I think 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: I know who did it, So hold it, wait, save it, 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: because we'll definitely have that combo. Okay, Yeah, I think 14 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: this is one of those it's uh, what is it 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: OCAM's razors at the the most obvious thing. We did 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: an episode on that, remember, yeah, a zillion years ago. 17 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: But this, I think this is one of those where 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: it is a lot less mysterious when you kind of 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: just look at it at its face. So, in other words, 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: you think the cat did it. The cat did do it, 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: So we're talking about this mystery UM usually calling it's 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: full title the Circleville, Ohio Poison Pen Letters, And it 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: is a weird unsolved mystery case. In fact, it came 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: into the widest um public awareness thanks to that TV 25 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: show Unsolved Mysteries back in the early nineties, and UM 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot of their info was based on this journalist 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: and private investigator named Martin Yant, who had already been 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: investigating it by then. But it is a really weird, 29 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: odd true crime mystery. And yes it is true crime, 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: even though you're right, it doesn't have murder involved. There's 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: no serial killer or anything like that. But it is 32 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: bizarre and it is weird, and it is still unsolved 33 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: to this day. Yeah there's a death. Uh it's not 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: a murder though. Well I don't want to ruin it, 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: so before we get too far into I want to 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: give some shout outs to some of the sources for 37 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: this one. Unsolved Mysteries their website, a couple of CBS websites, 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: Mental Floss, Thought Catalog, Historic Mysteries List first had some 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: good stuff, and then True Crimes Times UM had some 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: good stuff. And then also there are a couple of 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: podcast sites UM that have already covered this that if 42 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: this floats your boat, go check out the Whatever Remains 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: podcast UM coverage of this. And there's also one called 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: Invisible Ships podcast that covered this too, and we UM 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: use some of their info from their sites too. Yeah, 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: and this is one of those UM that's a little 47 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: frustrating to research because there's a lot of different conflicting 48 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: information and it's kind of hard to get to the 49 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: real facts. UM. But some of it's not the biggest 50 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: d ill It is just like, oh, well I saw 51 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: that this was this, and I mean right off the bat. 52 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: For instance, in Circleville, Ohio, these mystery letters started coming 53 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: to Mary Gillespie Gillizpie. But then I saw sites that say, 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: oh no, the superintendent received letters before Mary Gillizpi even 55 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 1: is there, right, Yeah, so who knows. It doesn't really 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: damage the main storyline, like nothing contradicts it such to 57 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: where I was like, well, I don't even know what 58 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: I've just read then, right, I don't even know what's 59 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: true anymore. But all this just as a way of 60 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: setting up, like if there are things that are slightly off, 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: is because it's just hard to get the real you know, 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: Like we didn't have the case file in front of us. 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: So most of the coverage of this mystery does start 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 1: with Mary Gillizpi receiving her first letter. And Mary Gillizpi 65 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: was a local bus driver in Circleville, Ohio. And Circleville, 66 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Ohio is a tiny little town about twenty miles south 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: of Columbus, Ohio, the capital of Io. A school bus driver, 68 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: by the way, which is very key. Yes, thank you 69 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: for that. Um. And so this is a small town, 70 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: and Mary Gillespie was a small town person who just 71 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: kind of typically minded her own business, was from what 72 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: I could tell, generally well thought of if she was 73 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: ever thought of it all by other people. Um. And 74 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: she got this first letter, and it was written in 75 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: this kind of weird blocky handwriting, and it was a 76 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: rather alarming letter UM for anybody to get, because it 77 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: basically said, I know that you're having an affair with 78 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: the superintendent of the West Fall School District, which you're 79 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: an employee of, and if you don't stop, bad things 80 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: are going to start happening to you. Right. His name 81 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: was Gordon Massey, said they were watching her, the superintendent 82 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: was Gordon Massey, that she was having an affair with 83 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: right yes to the letter writer, there would be no 84 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: mystery if we need to let it write. Hey, if 85 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: I were listening to this podcast, I would have been 86 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: confused just then. So I was looking out for that 87 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: version of me that's out there listening. Oh goodness, I 88 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: hope that person isn't listening. Uh. So they said that 89 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: they were watching it, and quote, this is no joke. 90 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: So these letters start coming in. Uh, almost all of 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: them had that same blocky letter meaning basically capital letters. Uh. 92 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: Some did not, though, and we'll get into that a 93 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: little bit more later. But the lion share of them 94 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: had this one kind of writing style that was very signature, 95 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: clearly kind of written by the same person. And so Mary, 96 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, she hides these letters for a little while, 97 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: obviously didn't even tell her husband at first, and then 98 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: eventually says Ron, and there are a bunch of just 99 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: norm core names in here, so it might get a 100 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: little confusing with like the Ron's and the Mary's and 101 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: the polls. But she told her husband Ron, she said, listen, 102 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: I've been getting these letters, and here's what they say. 103 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: And the letters are saying that I need to tell 104 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: the school board about this or they will out me 105 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: basically on you know, how would you would out someone 106 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: in the seventies, which is on the radio CB by 107 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: putting up billboards and signs. This would be your modern 108 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: like social media threat. I guess yeah. And so Ron 109 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: uh said well, I think Mary said listen, I think 110 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: I know these are coming from this other guy, uh David. 111 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: He's another uh school bus driver, David Longberry, and he 112 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: he tried to come onto me and I rebuffed him, 113 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: and I think that's who's writing these. So and from 114 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: what I could tell, Mary kept the letters to herself 115 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: until Ron started getting letters himself that basically said your 116 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: wife was having an affair with Gordon Massey and you 117 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: better make him stop where else I'm gonna tell everybody. 118 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: And so that's when she turned to to David was like, oh, yeah, 119 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: I forgot to tell you about these letters and that 120 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: I've been accused of having an affair. I'm totally not 121 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: having an affair, though, But what are we gonna do 122 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: about these letters? Huh? So they loop in as you 123 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: would do some family members. Ron's sister Karon, who will 124 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: become a key player, and her husband Paul uh fresh 125 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: Hour was their last name. Married last name. He would 126 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: become a key player. Uh. He was a prison guard 127 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: and not uh just a little side factoid about him 128 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: as the prison movie Brewbaker with Robert Redford. He was 129 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: in that movie. He was They filmed it nearby and 130 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: he was cast as an extra as a prison guard 131 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: because he was a real prison guard. He was a 132 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: real prison guard. And another fun fact about Paul fresh 133 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: Hour is in the late sixties at the prison he 134 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: was a guard at um it was overrun by an 135 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: eMate riot and he was held prisoner for like thirty 136 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: hours by the inmates. Well, he was a natural for Brewbaker. 137 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: Then he was so um. By the time these letters 138 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: started coming through, he was no longer a prison guard. 139 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: He was a quality inspector at the local Anheuser Busch 140 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: bottling plant. But I took from the fact that he 141 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: was a former prison guard that they they and to 142 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: get some muscle involved and they went to him to 143 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: ask him to write the letters. That was That was 144 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: how I took it. Yeah, and he worked and this 145 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of becomes key later on. He worked about fifty 146 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: to sixty hours a week and had a pretty decent 147 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: commute to and from so the long and short of 148 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: that is is he was gone at work a lot 149 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: of the time. Right, So Paul said, okay, of course 150 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: I'll help you guys out. And he sent a letter 151 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: at least one to David Longberry, the other bus driver 152 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: that had made advances on Mary and who they suspected 153 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: was the writer of these letters, and said, hey, Buster, 154 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: we know what you're doing. You better stop. Uh. If 155 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: you don't, bad things are gonna happen to you, so 156 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: cool off. Essentially, I'm paraphrasing here in the seventies kind 157 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: of way, and um, it seemed like it worked because 158 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: for a few weeks the letters that have been started 159 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 1: to come like hard and fast, just dry it up 160 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: at first, Yeah, because he said stop what you're doing 161 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: because I'm about to ruin go on what the image 162 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: in the style that you're used to and who wouldn't 163 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: stop writing letters with received with that threat, Yeah, because 164 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: they thought that they had this anonymous letter writer, you know, 165 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: dead to rights, and he was going to going to 166 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: be scared off now because ultimately, if it was this 167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: guy who from like Ron Gillispie's point of view, what 168 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: he was being told by his wife that she wasn't 169 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: having an affair. This guy was making this up because 170 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: she had resisted his advances. If you, if you tell somebody, 171 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: look stop, we know that you're doing this, of course 172 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: they're going to stop. The jig is up. So they 173 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: did think that had handled it, especially when those letters 174 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: dried up for a few weeks, but um, not too 175 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: long after that they were rather just made because um, 176 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: rather than just letters. Now there were signs being posted 177 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: around town that we're saying essentially the same thing. Yeah, 178 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: they were saying not only that, but they were saying 179 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: that Gordon Massey, superintendent not letter writer, was uh involved 180 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: romantically with the Glissapees twelve year old daughter Tracy. So 181 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: of course Dad sees this ron starts driving around tearing 182 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: these signs down, you know, before the break of dawn, 183 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: so no one would see these things. And this just 184 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: sort of went on for a while. There were these 185 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: letters that would come and go. I think about a 186 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: a little more than a year went by, uh, and 187 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: in August of seventy seven, Mary's like, I gotta get 188 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: out of here. I'm gonna go to Florida with UH, 189 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: with your with my sister in law, with your sister 190 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: Karen and a couple of other friends. Later on, people 191 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: said that was a cover up for maybe going down 192 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: to meet Gordon Massey in Florida. But I don't think 193 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: that's true. I think she went down with her friends. Yeah, 194 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: do you think that's true. I think we might have 195 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: different uh people in mind on who did this, and 196 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: we'll get to that though. That'll be the exciting reveal 197 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: at the end. I can't wait. Man. So the letter 198 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: writer back at home on answers the phone. Uh, it 199 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: was a person claiming to be the letter writer on 200 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: the other end. He said that he recognized the voice. 201 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: He got mad, he got his gun and tells the kids, 202 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to take care of this problem once and 203 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: for all. And a few hours later Ron is dead, 204 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: dead D E A D. But he wasn't dead like 205 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: from a stab wound or no one had broken his 206 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: neck or anything like that. He was dead from a 207 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: car accident he had run into I believe a tree. 208 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: He'd run off the road, driven about thirty ft at 209 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: a high speed and run into a tree. It was 210 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: the seventies, so he very well might not have even 211 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: had a seatbelt installed in his car. But at the 212 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: very least he didn't have it on. He was half 213 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: thrown from the cab, which is grizzly um and he 214 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: died at the site. Like he wasn't pronounced dead at 215 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: the hospital. Around the way of the hospital, they pronounced 216 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: him dead on the site. He was super dead of 217 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: massive internal injuries. And so there were a couple of 218 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: really fishy things about all this. Number one, the intersection 219 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: where he died at it was not far from his house, 220 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: so he knew this intersection very well. The weather was fine, 221 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 1: it was nighttime, but it wasn't like raining out or 222 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: anything like that. And he his gun had was found 223 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: to have had one um round missing, and it had 224 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: been fired. It wasn't just missing like the gun had 225 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: been fired, and no shell casing was found. So in 226 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: between the time that he stormed out of his house 227 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: to apparently confront the letter writer and the time he 228 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: was found dead, he had discharged his gun and they 229 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: had no idea at whom, where it was discharged, under 230 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: what circumstances. They just knew that he had shot his 231 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: gun once. Oh, so it was not a revolver, not 232 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: that I know of, because they've seen multiple places that 233 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: they did not find a shell casing. So it sounds 234 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: like it was an automatic or semi automatic all right. 235 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: Uh so that some people might say is fishy. The 236 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: other thing that other people say is fishy. I don't 237 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: find any of this fishy. But way is that he 238 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: was they ruled a drunken driving accident. Other people friends 239 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: would say, like heron didn't even drink that much. We 240 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: didn't see him drinking that day. But you can't argue 241 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: with science. And he had twice the legal limit of 242 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: in his blood alcohol content. Um, I don't think he 243 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: in his Officially, I think he drank up some courage 244 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: to go confront someone and wrecked his car and died. Yeah, yeah, 245 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: I mean that's something that that gets left out of 246 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: this is like this was a really dark period in 247 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: ron Um Gillispie's wife life. Like he was driving around 248 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: for hours before work every day, finding these signs at 249 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: the very least looking for him. If like he couldn't 250 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: find him, Like he didn't sleep very well. It makes 251 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: a lot of sense that he would have taken up 252 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: drinking when he was otherwise a teetotler. He was being 253 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: told by this person that his wife was having an affair, 254 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: even though she swore that she wasn't. It was a 255 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: bad time for him, so he he had like a 256 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: rough last year or so of his life, and then 257 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: he died badly as well too. It was not a 258 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: good end for Ron Gillispi. Um. And there was a 259 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: bit of a scandal after that because apparently Paul fresh 260 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: Hour said that he suspected it was foul play and 261 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: that the sheriff on the case, basically the local law 262 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: enforcement guy who would see this case through the entire 263 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: its entirety, was a guy named Dwight Radcliffe used the 264 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: sheriff and um. Paul fresh Hour claims that at first 265 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: Sheriff Radcliffe agreed with him that it seemed like there 266 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: was something fishing in that foul play might have been involved, 267 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: but then after that he suddenly changes his story. Sheriff 268 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: Radcliffe does, and like you said, it gets ruled an accident, 269 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: especially after the coroner comes back with a point one 270 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: six blood alcohol content for Ron Gillispi That's right, uh, 271 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: And Radcliffe said there was initially some kind of suspect 272 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: that and I know you did too, looked high and low. 273 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: I don't think it's literally ever been released to Sheriff 274 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: Radcliffe initially had in for questioning, but apparently this person 275 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: even went so far as to take a polygraph test 276 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: and got away with it. I don't I don't know 277 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: if it was one of the who knows. I don't 278 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: know if it's any of the key suspects that we'll 279 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: talk about later or not. Uh, And I don't think 280 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: we'll ever know who that was. But uh, there was 281 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: a suspect and that was sort of dismiss out of 282 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: hand once the d Y alcohol reading came back and 283 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: the polygraph test was passed. Yeah, the the one person 284 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: I saw floated as potentially who it was was David Longberry, 285 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: that bus driver. That's why I figured. Yeah, um, but yeah, 286 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: it's never been documented. I'm not even positive that it's 287 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: documented that Sheriff Francliffe actually did any of this, like 288 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: a polygraph and all that stuff only said he did. So. 289 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: Ron is dead, Chuck, the Circleville letter writer has claimed 290 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: a life. A human life has been snuffed out that 291 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: otherwise probably wouldn't have been had the Circleville letter Writer 292 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: not started writing this terrible letter campaign. That's right, you 293 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: want to take a break and pick back up afterward, 294 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: Let's do it, Okay, Alright, so Ron's gone and it's 295 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: about the same time that, uh, you know, Karen and 296 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: Paul are having a rough go of it as well. Uh, 297 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: And I just the feeling I got was they didn't 298 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: have a great marriage. It wasn't because of the Circleville stuff, 299 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: but they began to divorce and Karen had cheated on him. 300 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: Karen is uh, you know, she didn't get the house, 301 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: she didn't get the kids, and ended up living on 302 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: a trailer on Mary's property after Ron was gone. And 303 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: this was like, m Karen was not She didn't take 304 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: any this well, right, Everything I saw was that Karen 305 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: was u lived in a constant state of upset and 306 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: anger at Paul because of this divorce, even though she 307 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: was the one that she did right. Um, so you 308 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: just just put that in your hat, like put a 309 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: pain in that and save it for later. Put in 310 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: your hat and smoke it. Right. So one of the 311 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: things that came out of this um this close contact, 312 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: where Karen was living on a trailer in Mary's property, 313 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: is that supposedly during this time after Ron died, Mary 314 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: admitted that she actually was having an fair with Gordon Massey. 315 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: But but but don't judge her too harshly yet, because 316 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: it didn't start until after the letter writing campaign started. 317 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: The letters were bs all along you know what. I 318 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: think she had had it an affair with him before 319 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: and stopped and then started back up. Okay, that's possible. 320 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: That's my feeling. I think she had an affair with him. 321 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: Maybe it was off and on, who knows, Maybe it 322 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: was pretty much constant. And then at some point, um, 323 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: Gordon Massey left his wife or his wife left him. 324 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: I got the impression his wife might have left him, 325 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: and that Mary was not necessarily his only fling, his 326 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: only mistress, and that um, after that and after Ron died, 327 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: she felt comfortable saying that they were having an affair. Um, 328 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: but it started after the letter writing campaign. That's my 329 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: take on it. Well, supposedly the superintendent had uh I 330 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,239 Speaker 1: don't know if it was verified or not, but was 331 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: accused of having affairs with quite a few of the 332 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: female bus drivers. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah, 333 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: not just Mary, no, but I mean specifically bus drivers. 334 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: I got you, Okay, Yeah, I think that the Circleville 335 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: letter writer basically intimated that or outright said it in 336 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: in some of the letters. Right, Yeah, okay, um so okay. 337 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: So Gordon just think it's interesting that he has the 338 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: thing for bus drivers, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, 339 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: it is. It is a real thing, isn't it. So 340 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: those yellow busses he can't he can't turn them down? 341 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: Maybe so um so okay. So we've got Mary admitting 342 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: that she is having or has had an affair with 343 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: Gordon Massey, um Bron's dead, Paul and Karen are splitting up, 344 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: and we start to reach into the nineteen eighties, and 345 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: not only were the signs continuing, the letters were continuing, 346 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: the postcards were continuing. People um who were had who 347 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with like Mary or Karen or 348 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: Paul Um or Gordon had We're getting letters, Like the 349 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: businesses were getting letters. I saw one that was addressed 350 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: to a barbershop and it said dear public, and then 351 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: it went into this tirade about Gordon and Mary. So 352 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people are getting letters in this town 353 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: about this stuff. Um. And then things kind of stepped 354 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: up tremendously in February of three. Yeah, and by the way, 355 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: I think all of these letters were still being postmarked 356 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: from Columbus, Ohio and that's Uh, that's kind of a 357 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: key detail that um that we can't overlook is that 358 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: they're all being mailed in Columbus's what like half hour 359 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: away or so. Okay, so like they weren't being mailed 360 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: from that town. Uh. So Mary is doing her job. 361 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: She's still a bus driver six years later, despite all 362 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: this stuff. She's still taking those kids to school, bless 363 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: her heart. And she sees a sign on her route that, uh, 364 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: I have seen And this is one of those dumb 365 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: details I've seen. It was on a post I've seen, 366 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: it was attached to offense, but either way, there was 367 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: a sign that had incriminating stuff about her. Once again, 368 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: it threatened the life of her daughter, which was a 369 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: big one. So this is when she actually got out 370 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: to to take down and she she took down the 371 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: whole thing because it was kind of an odd looking 372 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: set up. And what she realized when she got home 373 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: was that it was a booby trapped sign that had 374 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: a gun, its twenty five caliber handgun and a little 375 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: container that allegedly was supposed to go off if someone 376 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: were to come by and kind of yank that sign 377 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: down without much care. Yeah, Like I think maybe some 378 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: string was connected to the back of the sign and 379 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: it went to the trigger maybe or something like that, 380 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: but it was designed to elicit an angry response, and 381 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: apparently she didn't take it down in anger and it 382 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: saved her life. But there's a there's a gun now 383 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: there's so Ron died probably from his own you know, 384 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: um accidental driving. This is totally different. This is attempted 385 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: murder um. And it's like, this is like an entirely 386 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: new ball game. This isn't just like, you know, harassing 387 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: somebody or stalking somebody. This now is attempted murder. There's 388 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: a loaded gun that was set up to go off 389 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: on on Mary. So of course the police get ahold 390 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: of this gun, and they see pretty quickly that somebody's 391 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: attempted to to file the serial number off of it, 392 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: but they haven't done a very good job of it, 393 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: and they handed over to the Bureau of Criminal Investigation, 394 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: the state investigators, and they say, oh, yeah, this is easy. 395 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: Watch this, and they get a piece of blank paper 396 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: and a nice cranon and they rub it over it 397 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: and sure enough, there is the serial number that wasn't 398 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: properly filed down and they can now trace the gun, 399 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: that's right, And they traced it back to a guy 400 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: who worked at a higher antizer bush and he said, 401 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: you know what, that was my gun, but I sold 402 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: it for thirty five bucks to Paul fresh Hour. Yep, 403 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: my co my co worker. UM, I guess we'll sort 404 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: of reveal what we think as we go since we're 405 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: doing that. I don't think that sign was supposed to 406 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: go off and kill anyone. I think it was a 407 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: a rigged booby trap, like a fake booby trap. I 408 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: know who you think it was, all right, I know 409 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: who you think, but depend on your hand. So, Paul 410 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: fresh Are, the guy who was Mary and Ron's brother 411 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: in law, Karen's ex husband. His gun has now been 412 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: found in a booby trapped sign from the Circleville letter writer. 413 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: That is a big deal. And so the police start 414 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: asking Paul some questions like why why is your gun 415 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: in a booby trap that was attached to a sign 416 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: from the Circleville letter writer. And Paul says, hey, man, 417 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: I have no idea anybody could have put that there. 418 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: That gun was stolen a long time ago. And they say, well, Paul, 419 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: did you report this to our local sheriff's department? And 420 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: Paul says, now, I never got around to and they say, Paul, 421 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: you should probably come downtown with us. That's right, And 422 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: he went downtown with Sheriff Radcliff, and the sheriff said, hey, 423 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: I've seen a few got TV shows in my day. 424 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: I've seen McCloud. So let's let's uh, let's get a 425 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: handwriting test going. And he was like, well, okay, where's 426 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: your forensic expert and he has We don't have one. So, 427 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: like I said, I've seen TV. So I'm gonna make 428 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: up some of my own tests, and I'm gonna tell 429 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: you to write some of this stuff. I'm gonna tell 430 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: you to copy these letters. I'm gonna read some of 431 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: them to you until and you you need to write 432 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: down what I'm saying. Uh, and that's gonna be the proof. Um. 433 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: And that's basically what happened. He was He basically said, 434 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: you know what, it looks like a match to me 435 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: at least pretty much. And and so I'm gonna arrest 436 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: you on charges of attempted murder. And he was released 437 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: on bond and interestingly checked himself into a mental health 438 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: center to get like proactively to get examined because I 439 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: think at first he thought about using a reason of 440 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: insanity plea and wanted to I guess support that lay 441 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: some groundwork. Yeah, but he he got out of that. 442 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: He changed his mind later on. Yeah. So. UM. One 443 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: other thing that I think pushed Sheriff Radcliff into arresting 444 00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: Paul in addition to that Jannkee handwriting test was UM. 445 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: Karen fresh Hour, Paul's a strange wife, during an interview, 446 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: told the sheriff, not only do I think that Paul 447 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: is the Circleville letter writer, I actually found letters before 448 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: hidden in our house addressed to other people in that 449 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: same weird handwriting. UM. And sheriff said, did you keep 450 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: these letters? Can I see him? And She's like, no, 451 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: I didn't keep them. You know, I don't like clutter 452 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. But that definitely helped push the sheriff 453 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: into into arresting Paul. So before Paul knows it, he's 454 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: on trial in October of n for attempted murder because 455 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: of that booby trapped gun. And at the trial, one 456 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: of the things that really sunk him was that they 457 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: allowed the letters to be introduced, not in any kind 458 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: of like criminal capacity, like he wasn't charged with harassment 459 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: or stalking or anything like that. They just basically used 460 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: it to paint him as a weirdo and a harassing 461 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: crack pot, and that the letters gave some sort of 462 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: roundabout motive or at least suggested that he was the 463 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: person who, um, who booby trapped that sign, because the 464 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: letters were connected to the sign, were connected to the gun, 465 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: were connected to Paul fresh Hour, and without the letters, 466 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: it was just the gun and Paul fresh Hour. So 467 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: it was a huge coup for the prosecutors to be 468 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: able to introduce that, um that those letters, and then 469 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: the handwriting analysts took over, right, Yeah, the handwriting analysts 470 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: confirmed two of them that they at least believed, and 471 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: you know we I think we did a full episode 472 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: on that, didn't we on handwriting analysis that he wrote those. 473 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: The other bad thing that he had going against him 474 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: was that he had taken the day off of work, Uh, 475 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: the day that the booby trap sign was discovered. A 476 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: little bit fishy for someone who worked so much, or 477 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: at the very least if he was innocent, which I think, uh, 478 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: very bad luck for him that he had happened to 479 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: take that day off of work. Yeah, it's very incidental, 480 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: don't you think. Well, sure, okay, you know, of course 481 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: you can't say it's not a coincidence. Uh but he 482 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: either took the day off to do the booby trapp 483 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: or just that was just a bad coincidence. Wait, he 484 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: just said, you can't say it's coincidence. I'll tell you. 485 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm not. I said you can. You can. You have 486 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: to say it's coincidence unless he did it. Okay, I 487 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: got you, I got you. I serious. I don't think 488 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: he did it, all right. I think there's a third 489 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: there's a third alternative that we'll talk about later. All'm 490 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: so excited, man. Uh So he said in court, like, hey, listen, 491 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: this sheriff gave me this test. He told me to 492 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: copy the letters and and I just took that to 493 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: me and to try and imitate the writing and and 494 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: none of this was even above board. He's like, he's 495 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: no letter writing expert. He shouldn't have been conducting this 496 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: junk science test. And here was some other interesting tidbit. 497 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: Mary said that, uh, hey listen. Another bus driver said 498 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: that she went past that intersection where that sign was 499 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: booby trapped earlier that day, and there was a dude 500 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: there who did not look like uh, Paul at all, 501 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: and there was an el Camino there, yellow yellow el Camino, 502 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: and Paul doesn't drive that, and so like, I don't 503 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: think it's him because look, I mean, look, look, look 504 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: what's going on here. He's getting railroaded by the supposed 505 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: handwriting and the fact that it was his gun. And 506 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: that's really just circumstantial evidence. So not only was it 507 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: fishy that there was a strange man spotted twenty minutes 508 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: before um Mary found this booby trap sign at the 509 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: very spot the booby trap sign was put up, but also, Chuck, 510 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: it turns out that um, if you see, there's a 511 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 1: there was a suspect, a possible suspect who um whose 512 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: brother had a yellow el Camino, and that person turned 513 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: out to be Karen fresh Hour. Yeah, I see, I 514 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: saw other places. It was not a brother, oh, a 515 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: boy friend I saw that. Well, No, it was another 516 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: relative who had the al camino, because the brother would 517 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: have been Roy's. I mean, I guess you could have 518 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: two brothers, right, yes, and a brother or a relative 519 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: could have been a boyfriend who we're talking about Central Ohio. 520 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 1: What I think, and this is Furthering my case here 521 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: a little bit is because this guy, I don't think 522 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: we mentioned when he was when the school bus went by, 523 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: he apparently like turned around real quick and acted like 524 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: he was peeing or something to to not be identified. 525 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: I think that that was Karen's boyfriend driving her relatives. 526 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: Uh oh, gotcha, Okay, okay, okay, I like, where are 527 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: you going with that? Throw him off the case or whatever. 528 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: I got him off the case, that's right. So that 529 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: was never introduced, right, No, not in court, I don't think, right. Yeah, 530 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: So the fact that that wasn't introduced the fact that 531 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: they had Paul's gun. They introduced the letters. His coworker 532 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: at Anheuser Busch said, yeah, I saw him the g 533 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: on the personnel records that Anheuser Busch said he wasn't 534 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: there that day. That the jury took two and a 535 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: half hours and came back with a guilty plea and 536 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: Paul fresh Hour, who may not have ever written one 537 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: of these letters or booby trap this this gun or 538 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: this side no motive. That's another one too, we'll just 539 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: we'll talk about in a second. He was He was 540 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: sentenced to seven to twenty five years in Ohio State 541 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: Prison for attempted murder in in three he was convicted 542 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: and sentenced, that's right, and he remained there for many years. 543 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: He was denied. I mean, he's a great prisoner. When 544 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: that seven years came up, he was eligible for parol 545 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: in ninete and these letters kept coming while he was 546 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: in jail, even though there's no way that he could 547 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: have written these and had them postmarked from Columbus from prison. 548 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: He was even putting solitary for a while because they 549 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: said these letters are coming, and they clearly weren't coming 550 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: from him, but that was still the fact that they 551 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: were still coming. At his parole hearing, they said, no, 552 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: these letters are still coming, so we're gonna keep you 553 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: in here. Imagine that. Imagine being like I'm innocent and 554 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: somebody else out there is proving that I'm innocent because 555 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: these letters are still coming. But you're taking is that 556 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: somehow I'm doing? You still got a letter in prison? Yeah, 557 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: so you're gonna keep me in And then after he 558 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: was denied parole that first time he was up for it, 559 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: after seven years in prison, he got a letter from 560 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: the Circleville Um letter writers saying, now, what are you 561 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: gonna believe you aren't going to get out of there. 562 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: I told you two years ago when we set them up, 563 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: they stay set up, don't you listen at all? So 564 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: we got a taunting letter after he was denied parole 565 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: because the letters were still going on. Yeah, I wonder 566 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: who wrote that. So he finally did get out in 567 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: after eleven years in prison, ten to eleven years in 568 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: prison for attempted murder. And he set up a website. 569 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: And this is like the mid nineties, so that was 570 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: like a big deal. He probably your Crystal links or something, 571 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: but he set up a website that was dedicated to 572 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: this case and you know, professing his innocence and everything. Um, 573 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: and you said something, uh that that I want to 574 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: circle back to, and that was motive and that it 575 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: is just he didn't really have one. No, that is 576 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: something that everyone has struggled with, even like the prosecutors 577 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: couldn't quite say why he would have done this. That 578 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense that there's really nothing. He 579 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: didn't have anything to gain from Mary being found out 580 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: or whether she had an affair or not. He had 581 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: nothing to gain from her dying if he if he 582 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: set up that booby trap um and yeah, it just 583 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. And when you have like you 584 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: have motive, opportunity and means, and he had opportunity and 585 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: he had means, but he never had motive. And that 586 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: was a really big deal. And the fact is he 587 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: had a really good alibi despite all of that for 588 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: almost all of the day. Um. And yet he was 589 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: still convicted and spent more than ten years in prison 590 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: for it. Very sad. Uh. We should also mention that 591 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: there was a letter sent not only to Paul in prison, 592 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: but while he was still in jail, there was a 593 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: letter sent to Unsolved Mysteries, the TV show, and they 594 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: were doing a segment about it. And uh, it said, 595 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: forget Circleville, Ohio. Do nothing to hurt Sheriff Radcliffe. If 596 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: you come to Ohio, U L sickos will pay, signed 597 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: the Circleville writer, I believe. I don't know if it's 598 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: the first time it was signed as such. Uh, well, 599 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: we'll get we'll get to it. Some of the letters 600 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: are signed w over the years, and those are the 601 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: ones that weren't written quite in that blocky style. But 602 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: that'll that'll come back. That letter demonstrates something that's really um. 603 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: Characteristic of the Circleville letters, and that the almost the 604 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: only punctuation in them are colon's, not simmy collins, not periods, 605 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: now even ellipses, you know, that annoying thing that people do. 606 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: We're rather think commas or periods. They just use ellipses, 607 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: and sometimes like multiple ellipses at once. The people this 608 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: person used colons like that, So like in a in 609 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: a single letter, there could be scores of colon's just 610 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: just littering the letter. And they did this in this 611 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: in this um, this letter to Unsolved Mysteries as well, 612 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 1: which I just that's just you don't see people doing 613 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: that with colon So I feel like that suggests that 614 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: every single letter that used colon's was definitely written by 615 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: the same person. The only issue I will take with 616 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: any of that is that I like to use the ellipsus. 617 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: I've never seen you want to use ellipsus. I may 618 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: not have used them with you. Okay, Wow, that's it's 619 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: like you're a whole different person that I never knew before. Yeah, 620 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: like ellipsus, I think it'd be very I think it 621 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: says a lot. It can be a very effective tool. Uh, 622 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: And I like it, Okay, do like eight dots in 623 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: a row. I use like the standard three. Okay, No, 624 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: I know what you mean. So you're using it as 625 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: a device to basically say, just pause and think about 626 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: what I just said, or in your court or yeah, 627 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: something like that. Okay, that's not at all what I'm 628 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: talking about. I'm talking about using an ellipse rather where 629 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: a comma should be, where a period should be, where 630 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: even a hyphen should be. Using an ellipse for that 631 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: is it's your bleedingly bad to read my mom, does it? Okay? Well, 632 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: I don't mean to insult you or your family. No, no, no, 633 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: I no, you don't. It's it's it's it's definitely weird, 634 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: and it's a thing because it's not just one. My 635 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: mom will put like eight or nine dots in between 636 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: phrases and sentences and emails. I don't know. Maybe I'm 637 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: not sure what it is. And if you were while 638 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: she was typing it, each dot would be like um 639 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 1: um um, what am I gonna say next? Alright, let's 640 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: take our final break here and we will talk a 641 00:35:45,760 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: little bit more about these darn letters right after this. Okay, 642 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: So one thing about this mystery, Chuck, is it would 643 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: be like remarkable and noteworthy even if it were just 644 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: limited to Marry and her family receiving these threatening letters 645 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: and there being some signs hundreds. Yeah, that's not at 646 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: all what it was like. Yeah, as a matter of fact, 647 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: I saw more than a thousand letters in multiple places. 648 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: More than a thousand letters, postcards, and signs were mailed 649 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: or put up around Circleville and even central Ohio in 650 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: general over the years. And um, the whole letter writing 651 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: campaign lasted for almost twenty years, more than eighteen years 652 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: of these letters, and they were they alleged everything from 653 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: murder to affairs to um complaints about the Ohio, Ohio politics. Um, 654 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: they just were all over the play. So it's a 655 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: really weird case, even more so than like the core 656 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: case that we're talking about. It's even stranger and more 657 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: rambling than that. Yeah, and you know, they were, like 658 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: you said, they expanded far beyond the Gillispie family. Some 659 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: accused the sheriff of being um involved in a cover 660 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: up about Ron's death. Some were about just other noteworthy 661 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,280 Speaker 1: people in town or not noteworthy people who just uh, 662 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, you had an affair with this person and 663 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: you're the local doctor or you're the local county coroner. Um, 664 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: you've been abusing children. And the weird thing is a 665 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff was actually true, right, So it 666 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: was like, is someone just really attentive and exposing these things, 667 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: Like what's going on there? Yeah? And I think the 668 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: town lived a bit in a bit of a state 669 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: of fear that like they were going to get targeted 670 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: next and all of their war secrets were going to 671 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: come out because, like you said, the Counting Corner, a 672 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: guy named Dr Ray Carroll, he apparently had previously been 673 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: a used of, um, inappropriate contact with children and in 674 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: a letter right, no in general, okay, but most people 675 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: didn't know about this. It was like a secret from 676 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: his past. And this letter writer brought this up and 677 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: years later, um, he actually I think he may have 678 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: lost his medical license. Um. The state medical board charged 679 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: him with eight counts of gross immorality, including stuff that 680 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: involved children. So this letter writer seemed to be correct 681 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: about that. There's another one that they were never proven 682 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: correct about. That was just maybe the most scandalous accusation 683 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: they ever made, and it was directed at the prosecutor 684 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: in Paul fresh Hour's case. A guy named Roger Klein. Yeah, 685 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: they said that, Um, I know you killed that woman 686 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: who was pregnant. She's a school teacher, and I'm going 687 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: to dig up their body and mail the bones to 688 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: the cops unless you admit it. And I think this 689 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: was never sort of went anywhere, right. It was just 690 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: one of those accusations. Now, And Roger Klein ended up 691 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: continuing along the career path up to being an appeals 692 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: court judge when he retired a few years back. Um. 693 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: But the accusation was that he was having an affair 694 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: with the school teacher, got her pregnant, and then killed 695 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,760 Speaker 1: her and by proxy her their their unborn child. Um. 696 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: And the there was a school teacher named Vicky Cooke 697 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: who was murdered and whose murder was never solved. UM. 698 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: And I I've seen in a couple of places that 699 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: Roger Klein was proven to have had an affair with her, 700 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: but I could not find that, like roundly um proven. 701 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: The upshot of all of this is this was exposed 702 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 1: in one of the letters. So the coroner in Ron 703 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: Gillispie's death is exposed in a letter and targeted Roger Klein. 704 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: The prosecutor in Paul fresh Our's case, gets a letter 705 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: of his own and he's targeted. So it wasn't just 706 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: Mary and her affair with Gordon Massey that was the 707 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: full subject of these letters. Other people were targeted as well. 708 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: That's right. So there's a couple of more people we 709 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: should mention, I guess before we get to our final 710 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: verdicts um, and they were both children of key players. 711 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: One was um William Massey. This is Superintendent Massey's son. 712 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 1: He was I've mentioned some of those earlier letters were 713 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: written in a kind of different style of handwriting, and 714 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: they were signed with a W. Some people say it 715 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: could have been William Massey writing these and actually signing them. 716 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: He was a grade school I'm sorry, I think high 717 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: school student at the time. Teenager and uh so, just 718 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: throwing that out there. And then there is Mark fresh Hour, 719 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 1: who was Karen and Sue's son, who um who went 720 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: with you know, he he the dad got custody. So 721 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what kind of say they had, but 722 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: I know that Mark did not go see his dad 723 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: in prison one time and generally is sort of believed 724 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: to have been on mom's side through all this. Yeah, 725 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: so I'm glad. Do you line those up? Because, like 726 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: I get think Christie um book, we're just basically introducing 727 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: characters who are now suspects at the very end of 728 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: this whole thing. Yeah, and interestingly, Mark, in September two 729 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 1: thousand two was found dead from a self inflicted gunshot 730 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: wound floating in a river. So, uh, some people say 731 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: that this was guilt because he was a part of 732 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: this thing. His mom Karen said no, he had been 733 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 1: battling depression. Nothing to see here, So let's talk about 734 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: the person that that brings up. Then, Um that that 735 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: has related Mark fresh Hour having to do with with 736 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: the case against his father is Everyone says that he, 737 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: if he did this, it was at the behest of 738 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: his mother, Karen mark Um, Paul's ex wife, and that 739 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: it was Karen who was actually the Circleville letter writer 740 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: Um who was who basically used this whole campaign to 741 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: set her ex husband Paul up. Right, Well, what do 742 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 1: you think? Are you getting into what you think? I'm 743 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,479 Speaker 1: just going over one of the us. What do you think? Well, 744 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: here's what I think. If that's where we are, sure, 745 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: all right? Well, I mean we have other suspects to 746 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 1: talk about. Well, it'll all come out in this and 747 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,399 Speaker 1: I think that the original letter was sent, in fact 748 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: by David Longberry, the bus driver who Mary Gillispy refuted, 749 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: and I think he got jealous. I think he wrote 750 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: quite a few of those first letters, because they are 751 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,439 Speaker 1: all about other bus drivers, and they are all about 752 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: the school system, and it's a lot of inside baseball 753 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: knowledge he wrote the first one. Then I think Karen 754 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: used that uh skin to uh start writing letters of 755 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: her own when she became obsessed with getting back at 756 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: her husband soon to be ex husband. And I think 757 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 1: she did enlist her son Mark. I think she enlisted 758 00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: her ex boyfriend or I'm sorry, her boyfriend, uh who said, 759 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, supposedly match the description of the guy in 760 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: the El Camino. I think that it was all her, 761 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: uh the that Martin Yant guy, the investigator said. In 762 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: my twenty two years as a journalist, I've never I 763 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: don't think I've ever met an individual so consumed with 764 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: so much irrational hatred for another and a willingness to 765 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,439 Speaker 1: say anything, no matter how provably false, to defame him 766 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: about her ex husband. And I think it was all her. 767 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: And then I think all these other weird letters, I 768 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: think people of of of Ohio just started writing these 769 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: as as ways to expose people. Okay, Okay, that's what 770 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: I think. Like you said, that's Martin Yance take on it. 771 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: He knows probably more than anybody about this case, aside 772 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: from Paul fresh Hour, who, by the yeah, he thinks 773 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: that it started out as David Longberry and was followed 774 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: up by Karen fresh Hour to set up Yeah. Yeah, 775 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: that was Martin Yance theory. So you're in good company. 776 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: They you're in good company. You and Martin Yann agree 777 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,800 Speaker 1: on that. Um, And I mean there's a lot to 778 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: base it on. Like Karen and or her son um 779 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: had access to Paul's gun. Um, she had them so 780 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: that she had the means, the opportunity, and the motive. 781 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: For sure, she definitely hated Paul fresh Hour. Happened to 782 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: throw away all those other letters that get found supposedly. Yeah, 783 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: I think even if she wasn't the letter writer, at 784 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: the very least, she was doing what she could to 785 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 1: set Paul up or make sure Paul went to jail 786 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,800 Speaker 1: for this, even if she hadn't gone to the trouble 787 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: of being been the letter writer. Okay, And my final 788 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: piece is she didn't come out with any of this 789 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: stuff until after that divorce was started. Yeah, like that 790 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: all all would have come out during the divorce proceedings 791 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: because it was bitter and acrimonious, so she would have 792 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: used anything she could have against him. So the fact 793 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: that she didn't mention those those things during the divorce 794 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: proceedings is extra FICII Is that what you're saying? No, 795 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: no, no no, she did mention him. I'm saying, none of 796 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: this was mentioned like this whole time these letters were 797 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: going on. None of it was mentioned until she started 798 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: to get divorced. Okay, that's not what I saw. I 799 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: saw she didn't mention it until Paul was starting to 800 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: be railroaded toward prison, and the fact that she didn't 801 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: talk about it during their divorce proceedings made it fishy. 802 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: M So I saw. The other way is that she 803 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: conveniently didn't mention any of this stuff until the divorce 804 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 1: started to get ugly, and then all the not mentioned it. 805 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: But that's when that's when she got involved. I think 806 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: I got you, Okay, all right, so do you want 807 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: to know who? I think here's a really good chance 808 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,359 Speaker 1: that what you just said is correct. I think it's 809 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: entirely possible. I want to hear your take. I think 810 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 1: it's also just as possible that the Circleville letter writer 811 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: was Paul fresh Hour. Mm hmmm. And here's why he um, 812 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: I saw that a motive for him to write these 813 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: initial letters some someone's floated I don't remember who that 814 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: it was. He was loyal to his wife at the time, 815 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 1: and that his wife was this ster of Ron who 816 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: was being hurt by his wife Mary having an affair. 817 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: So it's possible, whether it was his own idea or 818 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: with Karen Um, he would have written these letters as 819 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,479 Speaker 1: a weird, roundabout way to get her to stop having 820 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,359 Speaker 1: this affair, Okay, So that it is possible he did 821 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: have motive, and then from that point on he possibly 822 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: had motive to keep it up um to to as 823 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: a as a way of grinding an axe. He accused 824 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 1: Sheriff Radcliffe of covering up Ron's death. The circle Villar 825 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: letter writer accused Um the sheriff, of covering up Ron's death. 826 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: The the prosecutor in the case, got his own letter. 827 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: The the guy who prosecuted Paul fresh Air got his 828 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: own super scandalous letter. The coroner who ruled it was 829 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,399 Speaker 1: an accident. Ron Gilespie's death got a super scandalous letter. 830 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: These people were people that Paul fresh Air would have 831 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: had a problem with, and no one else, none of 832 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,319 Speaker 1: the other suspects would have had a problem with. So 833 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: it's also apparently there was a letter UM a handwriting 834 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 1: analyst who was on episode of forty eight Hours who 835 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: said this, these are written by one person, and that 836 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: person was Paul fresh Our based on his handwriting UM. 837 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: And apparently the UM Whatever Remains podcast turned up apparently 838 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: somebody got fingerprints off of some of the letters that 839 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 1: were sent while Paul was in prison, and they had 840 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: Paul's fingerprints on them. So there's a lot of stuff 841 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: that incriminates Paul as well. It's entirely possible it was 842 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: him and the other The last thing is the moment 843 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: he got out of prison. Um, the right right around 844 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: the time he got out a prison, the letters just 845 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: stopped altogether. Yeah, I don't know that. I don't know 846 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: what that means. So yeah, I mean a lot of 847 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,280 Speaker 1: it's up for subjective interpretation. I think it's either multiple 848 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: people mainly UM, David Longberry and Karen, or it was 849 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: all Paul. That's might take well, I mean, who else 850 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: could it have been? It could have in um, Gordon 851 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: Massey obviously, right, the original guy. You got anything else? 852 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. Well, if you like this, there's 853 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more of this case, so there's probably 854 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: a rabbit hole for you to jump down and go 855 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: search it on the internet. Uh and listen to those 856 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,799 Speaker 1: other podcasts whatever Remains and Invisible Ships and see what 857 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 1: you think about there's two. And since I said that, 858 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,840 Speaker 1: it's time for a listener mail or get on Reddit 859 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: man that sometimes I'm not on Reddit hardly at all, 860 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 1: but sometimes stuff like this is a lot of fun 861 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: because you get to see all these different people's takes 862 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: and opinions. I saw this one guy who literally read 863 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,240 Speaker 1: the entire hundred and sixty something page thing that Paul 864 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,759 Speaker 1: had put out in the early nineties, like, man, you've 865 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,279 Speaker 1: got more time than I do. Yeah, it's really detailed. 866 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,840 Speaker 1: I was looking through and it is. Yeah. I didn't 867 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 1: make it through the whole thing. But if you're if 868 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:56,759 Speaker 1: you're into that, go to um their Unresolved Mysteries subreddit 869 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 1: that will be up your alley. All right, gonna call 870 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: this Flann and Aisles Wave explained this is Uh. This 871 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: is from Allison from Toronto, but I have to say 872 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: that we got so many letters that said basically the 873 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: same thing almost immediately after that episode kid that I 874 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: think it's probably what happened, and it seems pretty possible 875 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: to be. Hey, guys, love the podcast. You're the best 876 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,319 Speaker 1: with regard to planning aisles mystery. I'd like to share 877 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 1: how I envision it. How about this the box and 878 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: the cranes banging around. The two keepers down their weather 879 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: gear and set off to secure it. The other stays 880 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: behind from the elevated advantage point of the lighthouse. Maybe 881 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: while skinning the horizon with binoculars. Who knows, he spots 882 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,799 Speaker 1: that rogue wave coming towards the island, and in an 883 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: attempt to warn and save his friends, bolts from the 884 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,360 Speaker 1: lighthouse without weather gear, maybe even knocks over that chair, 885 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 1: only to be swept away with his friends in an 886 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: attempt to save them. One wave, all three gone. I 887 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: think he saw it coming and thought he had enough 888 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 1: time to save them. All that as from Allison from 889 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: Toronto and many many other people who said basically the 890 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 1: exact same thing. Uh, And it sounds pretty good to me, 891 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: It really does. It's super plausible, and I it didn't. 892 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,719 Speaker 1: It didn't dawn on me at all. If that's a possibility, 893 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,359 Speaker 1: one wave or another, it's gonna get you. Sometimes when 894 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: you're sitting in front of the microphone, you don't have 895 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 1: time to ruminate like you people do at home. The 896 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: people want our defense. They want some more jokes, they 897 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: want some more pithy insights, you know. Yeah, they want 898 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,200 Speaker 1: another piece of us. Yeah, but thank you. I mean, 899 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: without the rest of everybody, we would be incomplete. So 900 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: everybody else completes us, right right, that's right. If you 901 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 1: want to send us a an email that completes us, 902 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,839 Speaker 1: we would appreciate that. You can send it to us 903 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 1: at stuff podcast. Wait hole on, Chuck, Who was that? 904 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: They wrote in Allison from Toronto, Thank you Allison from 905 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: Toronto and everybody else who wrote into You can send 906 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:59,240 Speaker 1: your email to Stuff Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. 907 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: Stuff You Shouldn't is a production of I Heart Radio. 908 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the I heart 909 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 910 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,279 Speaker 1: favorite shows. H