1
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,719
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Setts Podcast.

2
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 1: My guess is the one and only Paul Schaeffer. Paul,

3
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,919
Speaker 1: you're doing this benefit for pop culture with Jeff Barry

4
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: on September thirteenth in Los Angeles.

5
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 2: Tell me about that, well, how much time do we have?

6
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 2: We have plenty of time go for It's a convocated story.

7
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:35,080
Speaker 2: First of all, my daughter, Victoria Lily Schaeffer, what she's

8
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 2: thirty years old now. What she does is run a

9
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 2: rescue association here in Los Angeles. I'm visiting her now

10
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 2: I'm Los Angeles now called pop Culture and it's the

11
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 2: title of her book as well. She wrote a book

12
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 2: about pop culture because it's obviously about puppies, but also

13
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 2: the whole culture of you know, dog lovers and how

14
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 2: it comes upon a person, you know, sometimes not of

15
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 2: their own volition. Anyway, that's what she does. And then

16
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 2: we have the great songwriter Jeff Barry, who, with his

17
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 2: late wife Ellie Greenwich, wrote all of I Don't Know

18
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 2: about You, but they're all my favorite songsble starting from

19
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,959
Speaker 2: be My Baby by the Rawnetes baby I Love You,

20
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,400
Speaker 2: I Can Hear Music Do, a ditty from which we

21
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 2: called the title for our evening that we're going to

22
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 2: have September thirteenth here in La doa Ditties for Doggies.

23
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 2: Jeff is eighty five years old now but still funny

24
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,800
Speaker 2: as hell. And his list of songs going through I

25
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 2: Honestly Love You by Olivia Newton John that he wrote

26
00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 2: with Peter Allen and stuff. You know, he's got stories

27
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 2: for days. And I am what Irwin Corey used to

28
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 2: call himself the world's foremost authority on his stuff. And

29
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 2: Ellie was one of my good friends, his late wife,

30
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 2: and I worked with Jeff in seventy four. It's a

31
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: whole michigs that I could get into about how we

32
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 2: met and how long we've met. Anyway, he surfaced in

33
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 2: my life just simontaneously. I told him about my kids.

34
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 2: If Victoria's out there, he's in the next canyon over.

35
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: That's the way they speak out here on the coast.

36
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,679
Speaker 2: And he said, well, we should do something and give

37
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,120
Speaker 2: the you know, an evening and give the my songs

38
00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 2: and stories and we'll give the money to Victoria's rescue.

39
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 2: And I said, you're on. So du Ditty's four Doggies

40
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 2: is going to It's live at the club called the

41
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 2: Right Off Room, The Right Off Room in Studio City, California,

42
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 2: on venture, I believe, And it's going to be Jeff

43
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 2: and I and you know, it's on the internet, of

44
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,639
Speaker 2: course you could. We would love people to buy tickets

45
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 2: and events, so we know, you know, if we got

46
00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 2: a show, if we've got an evening or not. So

47
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 2: far we're doing pretty well. It's where I'm like a

48
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,360
Speaker 2: month away, but I can't wait. I just you know,

49
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 2: these songs and group of songs I've just been obsessed

50
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,120
Speaker 2: with since I saw the Rawnettes on American Bandstand Do

51
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 2: It in the afternoon when the American Bandstand was on

52
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 2: a Saturday afternoon, and then went skiing in the freezing

53
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,679
Speaker 2: frozen North where I was growing up, but couldn't get

54
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 2: this song out of my mind. You know, be my Baby.

55
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,359
Speaker 2: What a sound and what a sentiment and what I mean,

56
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 2: what girls the Rawnettes? Oh my goodness. I was just

57
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 2: starting to, you know, learn about girls and stuff. This

58
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 2: is the way to go, and to learn what an

59
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,720
Speaker 2: explosion on Saturday afternoon. So then you know, meeting Jeff

60
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 2: Barry later and working with him was just you know,

61
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 2: for me, incredible and I can't wait because even there's

62
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: things I got to know that I still don't understand

63
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,120
Speaker 2: and know about how they wrote certain songs and stuff. Okay,

64
00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 2: so what exactly hanky panky is another one? Right now?

65
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: What I think was the show going to be?

66
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 2: Well, Jeff sings. He was a vocalist too, back in

67
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:09,920
Speaker 2: the day and by the day, I mean, you know,

68
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:16,000
Speaker 2: the late fifties, early sixties. Then he became a writer

69
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,479
Speaker 2: and his first hit as a writer was Tell Laura

70
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,080
Speaker 2: I love her. Remember that, repur Laura, I love it?

71
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,599
Speaker 2: Come on exactly what great melody? And what you know?

72
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,479
Speaker 2: What a story about a star car race and a death?

73
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,560
Speaker 2: Tell Laura? Well he opens with that, you know, and

74
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 2: then we're just going to get into it. I want

75
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,599
Speaker 2: to hear immediately about you know what, what is the

76
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 2: story behind it? And how did you know? Where the

77
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 2: hell did you come from? And all kinds of things.

78
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 2: And it turns out we have we both have Don

79
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 2: Rickles's stories. We've already established that. So we're going to

80
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 2: get those in, you know, before we do anything else.

81
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 2: And then just it's going to be all music. And

82
00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,839
Speaker 2: you know, when he does say the do ron ron,

83
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 2: the audience just will be singing along naturally, they can't

84
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 2: help themselves. He says, you know, once in a while,

85
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 2: he hasn't done it much, but once in a while

86
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,599
Speaker 2: he does a thing like this with a pianist, he says.

87
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 2: You know, when I say, met him on Monday, and

88
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,039
Speaker 2: he looks so fun the audience just is there to do, run, run,

89
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,200
Speaker 2: you know. And so I'll be the pianist playing for him.

90
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 2: And nobody plays these songs better because nobody loves them

91
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 2: like I do. And we're just going to go through

92
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,039
Speaker 2: all the hits, including I Honestly Love You, you know, for

93
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,039
Speaker 2: Olivia Newton John that he's also going to sing, and

94
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,080
Speaker 2: then you know, other surprises. But I'll give away one

95
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: surprises because you asked. But we have a dear friend

96
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:46,960
Speaker 2: in common whose name is Ron Dante. And Ron was

97
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 2: the voice of the Archies when they sang Sugar Sugar,

98
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 2: another of Jeff's compositions. So I got and Ron really

99
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 2: got me started doing arrangements in the studios in New

100
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 2: York in the seventies because he heard a thing that

101
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,599
Speaker 2: Jeff and I had done together, and so I just

102
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 2: called around. You know, He's going to come over and

103
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 2: sing sugar, Sugar, that'll be part of the evening too,

104
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 2: and you never know, there may be other surprise.

105
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you got to tell one Don Rickles story.

106
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll tell mine. The first time he did Letterman,

107
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 2: I was thrilled because he had obviously watched the show

108
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 2: and knew my name was early in our run. And

109
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,680
Speaker 2: he turned to me on the panel and he said, Paul,

110
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 2: have your self committed? That's it, jeffs is funny even.

111
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 1: Okay, you're with your sister. You resume your daughter in

112
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,280
Speaker 1: the Sian Finando, are you staying in her house or

113
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: staying in a hotel?

114
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 2: Staying at her house this time?

115
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 1: What is that like all these years later?

116
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, she's got a wonderful gentleman with

117
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,800
Speaker 2: whom you know who is sharing this house with her

118
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,919
Speaker 2: as well, named Brandon More and you know, not not

119
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,400
Speaker 2: involved in show business at all, but you know they

120
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 2: are a serious couple and we have to stay out

121
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 2: of their way and be respectful. So of course it's

122
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 2: a little bit of a of a tap dance, and

123
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,480
Speaker 2: my wife can't help herself but to say, you know,

124
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 2: you haven't changed this light bulb since we were here, honey,

125
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 2: cool it with the lightbell. You know, it's it's as

126
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 2: exactly as you might imagine, but it's it's great to

127
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 2: see Victoria, and the fact that we can still do

128
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 2: it at all is I guess quite amazing.

129
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you come to the West Coast. Are you the

130
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,239
Speaker 1: type of person who emails people in Vance and Texam

131
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm coming. We got to get together or is it

132
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 1: more of a family homebody thing.

133
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, different trips. Toy's been out here

134
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 2: for a few years now, I'm not even sure six

135
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 2: eight years, so every trip can be different. And I

136
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 2: do have some friends here, and some of my Canadian

137
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,240
Speaker 2: friends live here, you know, transplants, and sometimes I do

138
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 2: get to get to see them, and sometimes it's just

139
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 2: all about Victoria and family visits too, so you know,

140
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 2: we do it both ways.

141
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 1: Okay, certainly you have a long reputation as being mister

142
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 1: showbiz appreciating these people, knowing their backstories. Did you really

143
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 1: only see them on television when you were on the

144
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 1: show or are they friends?

145
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 2: Uh? Well, I've got to get some clarification on the question.

146
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,960
Speaker 2: Currently you're talking about me today. Well, yes, give me

147
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:50,560
Speaker 2: an example.

148
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 1: I don't need to separate. It could be. You know,

149
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 1: what I'm really asking is Dave was famous for not

150
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 1: hanging with the guests. Oh yeah, even though we saw

151
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 1: our guests all the time. Although Dave sort of stood

152
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,200
Speaker 1: apart from showbiz, whereas you were heavily immersed in love,

153
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,240
Speaker 1: showbiz knew everybody's story. So when people were in town

154
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,719
Speaker 1: in New York to be on the show, would you

155
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,960
Speaker 1: go hang with them after the show? When you came

156
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,360
Speaker 1: to the West Coast, would you bring them up both

157
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 1: when you were on television all those nights a week

158
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: and now.

159
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,200
Speaker 2: Well, certainly some you know, by the time I got

160
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 2: on on the Letterman Show, I was thirty two, had

161
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 2: already done you know, five years of the first five

162
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 2: years of Saturday Night Live. So for instance, I had

163
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 2: friends who had been you know, in the cast and

164
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live. It's still friends. If someone like it,

165
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 2: a Dan Ackroyd or something, we absolutely might have hung

166
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 2: out afterwards. Martin Short, you know who, with Eugene Levy

167
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 2: and Dave Thomash are really my three closest friends from Canada.

168
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,560
Speaker 2: If any of them, well, when Martin Short would do it,

169
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 2: you know, we sort of had a tradition we would

170
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 2: we try to keep the limo that they sent for him,

171
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,800
Speaker 2: and we we would specifically go hit the town, you know,

172
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,760
Speaker 2: because he would come from. As I said, he lives

173
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, Like maybe not said it, but one

174
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,800
Speaker 2: of the people that I might call up coming. So

175
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 2: you know, these are our actual friends. Now. Maybe back

176
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 2: in the eighties, Oh, we had a couple of classic

177
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 2: jam sessions after shows here and there, you know, where

178
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 2: a musician might say, hey, let's you know, can we

179
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 2: get a little rehearsal studio in jams. So that did

180
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 2: happen when we but we were we had the energy

181
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 2: to do it afterwards. By the end of the show,

182
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,520
Speaker 2: Believe me, I was just as happy to go home.

183
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 2: So tired all the time. It was doing a show

184
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 2: every single day. You look at even the guys doing

185
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,079
Speaker 2: these daily shows. Now, I saw Seth Meyers the other day.

186
00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's just exhausted, just like I was

187
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 2: when you're doing it every single day.

188
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so the show ends, Yeah, and at first there's

189
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 1: a relief. But yeah, it must have been a big

190
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 1: emotional adjustment.

191
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,319
Speaker 2: I think you're right. And it was physical too. First

192
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,120
Speaker 2: of all, I was a migraine sufferer. During the show,

193
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:25,120
Speaker 2: I was on a drug called Gaba Penton. There are a

194
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,160
Speaker 2: lot of people seem to know what it is now, Yeah,

195
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 2: just for migraine headaches. On a huge dose of it.

196
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 2: And as soon as the show ended, it stopped working.

197
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 2: I got started getting headaches again, which was also kind

198
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,880
Speaker 2: of part of it. Anyway, when you're a migraine suffer,

199
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 2: sometimes on the weekends, when the pressure's off, that's when

200
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 2: you get a headache. You know, during the week you're

201
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 2: kind of guarding. Anyway, that happened to me, and I

202
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 2: had to get off that Gaba Penton, which was a

203
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,840
Speaker 2: whole another you know, ordeal, and so all of that happened,

204
00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 2: and emotionally, well, you know, even before emotionally your schedule

205
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 2: is different. Absolutely start getting hyped up at about four

206
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,920
Speaker 2: thirty because the tape you st roll at five thirty,

207
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,160
Speaker 2: and then you wait, I don't have to do the show,

208
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 2: but boy, you certainly miss it. And I definitely missed it.

209
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 2: For my goodness, you know, certainly the first year or

210
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 2: two until I readjusted anything, I didn't feel busy at all.

211
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 2: Even if I had like a week of recording sessions.

212
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 2: There's just kind of nothing compared to how busy we

213
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,320
Speaker 2: all were doing that daily show. And it was yeah,

214
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,200
Speaker 2: pressure filled and I had headaches all the time, but

215
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 2: you get used to it, and you know, yeah, it

216
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 2: took me a while to get over it. Now I'm

217
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,640
Speaker 2: over it and say, as I heard Dave let him

218
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 2: and say the other day, I think we may have

219
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,280
Speaker 2: done it maybe five years too long because we were

220
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 2: up there and it takes some energy.

221
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,720
Speaker 1: So you're saying the energy was depleted and it hurt

222
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:02,680
Speaker 1: the show a little.

223
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,320
Speaker 2: Bit, No, you know, because Dave would never let that happen.

224
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 2: I think it's more of a effect that I was saying,

225
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,880
Speaker 2: attired all the time, You're gonna get up for that

226
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 2: show and do the best, you know, and he was.

227
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,640
Speaker 2: He never stopped coming in super early in the morning,

228
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,320
Speaker 2: staying super late analyzing the show. That never let up.

229
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,640
Speaker 2: I think he just had to. It's a little harder

230
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 2: to summon the energy.

231
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 1: Okay. I've been to Canada a million times. Love Canada.

232
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,200
Speaker 1: But starting in the eighties, so you're growing up in

233
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties, Like if you go to some

234
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 1: of these foreign countries like Norway, they were really in

235
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 1: the dark ages ultimately, Norway got money from Oyal and

236
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,400
Speaker 1: had changed thing. Did you feel like you were on

237
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 1: the outside looking in or did you just feel part

238
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 1: of the whole United States stream?

239
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 2: Outside looking in? For sure? And I think that you

240
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 2: know a lot of people, Uh ask me and my

241
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 2: Canadian friends all the time, why there's so many you know,

242
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,280
Speaker 2: especially in comedy. Why is there so much comedy coming

243
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 2: from Canada, Canadians coming to me. I think that's a

244
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,840
Speaker 2: good part of it. We were so close to it,

245
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 2: but so far, and we were studying it, you know,

246
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 2: we studied the Ed Sullivan Show just as closely as

247
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 2: anybody else, but to us it was even more special

248
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 2: to get to see Sophie Tucker or something. And I

249
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 2: don't know, it was just really I was very far

250
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,920
Speaker 2: away from it up in thunder Bay, Ontario.

251
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you're growing up. What kind of kid are you?

252
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:52,760
Speaker 2: Kind of shy and an only child, quiet and had

253
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 2: all the privacy I would want as a kid, didn't

254
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 2: really fit in. Have to be kind of rugged and

255
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,480
Speaker 2: love the outdoors to feel comfortable in thunder Bay, Ontario,

256
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 2: And when I was a kid was called Fort William

257
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 2: and Port Arthur, and the two cities amalgamated. But if

258
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 2: you love you know, and I did ski for sure,

259
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 2: because it was you know, socially, as a kid, you

260
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,360
Speaker 2: had to either ski or skate. And I was a skier.

261
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 2: And you know, a badge of honor would be if

262
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 2: you could stay up and party, you know, into the

263
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 2: evening and then be on the slopes at eight am

264
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 2: as soon as the chairlifts. You know that that's a man,

265
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 2: you know, or a gal who knows how to party.

266
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,720
Speaker 2: But and I was doing that kind of stuff and

267
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 2: it was cold as hell.

268
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: Okay, let's stalk with the skiing thing for a minute.

269
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 1: On Dave's final show, the final shot is him skiing

270
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 1: with his son. There was video, beautiful. Okay, when was

271
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 1: the last time you skied?

272
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 2: Not since I left thunder Bay.

273
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 1: So once you left, that was it. Not when your

274
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 1: kids growing up, not like, well, let's do this as

275
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 1: a family now.

276
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 2: And I feel, as you know, one thing that I

277
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 2: was a little negligent. I really tried to step up

278
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 2: and be you know, and I had a son besides Victoria,

279
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 2: I've got a twenty four year old son. And you know,

280
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 2: just like in the movie you play Carousel, My god,

281
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 2: you got to be a father to a son, and

282
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,320
Speaker 2: I did my best, but skiing, no, I would not,

283
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,880
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't worth it because I could. I

284
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 2: can't imagine having any kind of gortex or material things

285
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 2: that they have now that keep you warm. Oh yeah,

286
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 2: we better not only freezing but kind of bundled up,

287
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 2: could barely move ski poles in your hand and just

288
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 2: you know, coming, Oh my goodness. But as far as

289
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 2: the kind of kid I was, I've got this recollection

290
00:16:54,680 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 2: of waiting for the chairlift at the bottom, and when

291
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 2: you're not skiing, it's even colder. You're just standing there,

292
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's way ah and you're in northern Ontario,

293
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 2: and the chairlift was blasting music like they might add

294
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 2: a carnival, you know, in front of a ride, blasting

295
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 2: out music. And I hear, you know, as I'm waiting,

296
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 2: I hear this for the very first time, and I

297
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 2: think I would have been twelve. I hear the Tokens

298
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 2: record the Lion sleeps. Oh wow. And it was again

299
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 2: sort of like that, you know, experience of the rawat

300
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 2: seeing the but even more immediate. That got me through

301
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,439
Speaker 2: the day of skiing, and why I come down and

302
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 2: waiting again. You'd hear it again, and every time I

303
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 2: couldn't believe the sound. The sound just kind of galvanized me.

304
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 2: And that got me, you know. That's what became important

305
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 2: to me and kind of saved my life. I think

306
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: a lot of rock and rollers talk about it. Okay,

307
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,359
Speaker 2: rock and roll will save my life. So music in

308
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 2: the household? And when did you start taking piano lessons?

309
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 2: My mother has said, you'll take lessons when you are six.

310
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,360
Speaker 2: When do you start to learn how to read in school?

311
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 2: Read English? That's the time, That's what she believed. And

312
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 2: so I started lessons at age six.

313
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 1: You know, I took piano lessons at the same age,

314
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 1: actually started at five. But you can go to lessons

315
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,239
Speaker 1: and not practice and not be into it, or you

316
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 1: can be into it. Were you always into it? Or

317
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,679
Speaker 1: was when you heard the tokens on or something that

318
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 1: you became accelerated.

319
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: I always into it in that My mother kind of

320
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 2: set me up. She was one of those Jewish mothers

321
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 2: who had music in the house specifically so that I

322
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 2: would get involved in it. And she played chopin and

323
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 2: she played Broadway music the ethel Merman and Mary Martin

324
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,680
Speaker 2: at Carnegie Hall and it just you know, it does

325
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 2: seep in rock, monerof and stuff. That was her music.

326
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: And then my dad, this conservative lawyer from thunder Bay,

327
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 2: small town lawyer, but he dug the great jazz vocalists

328
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 2: Billy Eckstein and Sarah vaugh and he turned me onto

329
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 2: Ray Charles. On Sundays, you know, he would put on

330
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: his records and won Ray Charles. So that was pretty,

331
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 2: you know, pretty good. And my mother also was a pianist,

332
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 2: played you know, not professionally or anything, but could play

333
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 2: the piano certain classical things from music. And I remember,

334
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 2: as an infant being under the piano as she played,

335
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 2: feeling of it, you know, the sound coming down. But

336
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 2: as soon as she got me playing taking lessons, she

337
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 2: stopped playing, never played again, almost like her work was

338
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 2: done because I was playing and I played these lessons,

339
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 2: and I don't know the first lesson. I came home

340
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 2: and I started figuring out my own, you know, melodies,

341
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 2: not that I ever wrote. I was not a writer,

342
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,399
Speaker 2: but just I figured out that you could play the

343
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 2: William tell overture, which every kid was on our mind

344
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 2: because of the Lone Ranger television, mostly on all Black Keys.

345
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 2: But I couldn't even figure that out until that first

346
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 2: lesson came home, though, and that's what I wanted to. Hey,

347
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: you can actually, you know, and that's I kind of

348
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 2: started getting interested right away and playing by ear, and

349
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 2: that's really what, you know, what became important to me

350
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: and what I still really do. Maybe why I never

351
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: really wrote or I found you know, I only wrote

352
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 2: one or two songs my whole life because of what

353
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 2: I really like to do is sit down and play

354
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 2: the songs that I know. So I never bought records,

355
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 2: but as I was listening, you know, I didn't buy

356
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 2: Being My Baby, but I could sure play it and

357
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: I used to pound it out on the piano really loud,

358
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: get the sound up, you know, and kind of play

359
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 2: all the different parts, not on out the string part

360
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: and stuff, you know, just figuring out my ear. And

361
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 2: I still get my kicks doing that.

362
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: Okay, Brian Wilson feels the same way Be My Baby,

363
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: as you and me both know, interacting with Brian Wilson

364
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: is its own special, uh situation. But did you ever

365
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: discuss that with Brian?

366
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure you can almost have to. Well, Uh, there

367
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: was a point when and this is really it's not

368
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: my own story. I've been reported back to me, but

369
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 2: I kind of had something to do that I was.

370
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: I missed the second season of Saturday Night Life because

371
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 2: I was in California doing my show and got to

372
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 2: work with Jeff Barry. But during that season, Brian appeared

373
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: as a guest. I believe, and the singers were gotten.

374
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: You know Howard Shore Musical got Brian the singers background

375
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: singers the kind of people that I know. Susan Collins another,

376
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: you know, a woman who stands at attention for be

377
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: my Baby and can sing with that Ronnie sound, and

378
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 2: Ellie and Susan knew. Ellie Greenwich, the actual Eli Grittich,

379
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 2: sang background for for Brian Wilson, and Brian heard that

380
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 2: Ellie had written be my Baby. He was just, you know,

381
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 2: he was floored. He became, he became, he became her

382
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 2: baby and was saying, you know, Elley just you know,

383
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: just enjoying being her presence.

384
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: I think, okay, So you're practicing the piano, you're working

385
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: out songs. If I was in school with you, would

386
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 1: I say, oh, that's Paul shef for he plays the

387
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: piano or was it?

388
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so okay, Well, because I you know,

389
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: I was always called upon to play in the school assemblies.

390
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how it started because I can't remember,

391
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: but I have a recollection of myself, but coming up

392
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: in front of the assembly when the whole school's assembled,

393
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: you know, and playing a little classical piece from my

394
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: lesson Mozart or something and boring everybody. But in what

395
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: we called junior high grade seven and eight up there

396
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: in Canada, I started becoming aware of rock and roll,

397
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: and I said, you know about grade seven, now you

398
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: know what instead of Mozart, I think I'm going to

399
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: play Pipeline by the Chantes And I'm not sure. Well no,

400
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: I mean, it's another whole story why I summoned the

401
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: nerve to do it. But when I did, it was pandemonia.

402
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: The kids were expecting, you know, Mozart and it's figured

403
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: out how to do that on the piano. Don't don't,

404
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: don't do do And I was like, you know, I

405
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: got a reaction that said, you don't have to write

406
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 2: your own songs, just you know, look at what you

407
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: can do to an audience just with a great song

408
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: and a performance of it. So I learned that early.

409
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: I had a friend who booked Oprah for live gigs,

410
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: and someone said, well, why does Oprah have to play

411
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: live gigs? And he said, you can't get that hit

412
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: anywhere else. So what was it like when they're reacting

413
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: to pipeline?

414
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was great.

415
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: You know.

416
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: I was a child of about twelve, and so, as

417
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,959
Speaker 2: I say, kind of life changing thought of I realized that, I,

418
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: you know, this works. I think that's what I thought

419
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: to myself, Hey, this and so when I would be

420
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: called upon, and I throughout my high school career play

421
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: the piano. You know, I started playing when the Beatles

422
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: came out a.

423
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: Little bit slower. Okay, So we have I Turner, Chuck

424
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: Berry's Sun Records. We have Elvis, Elvis kind of goes down.

425
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: We have Fabian, we have Bobby ry Dell. Were you

426
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: a fan of popular music in general before the bats

427
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: were just specific sounds?

428
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: No popular that music and what it could do to me?

429
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: Those chords they were so simple, they were all the same,

430
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: same four chords. And I found, you know, once I

431
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: learned them, I could play all these songs. Now. Bandstand.

432
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: I remember seeing my first American bandstand on a trip

433
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: family trip to Minneapolis, because we had no American television.

434
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: We only had one channel when I was, you know,

435
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: in elementary school, the CBC. It carried The Sullivan Show,

436
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 2: luckily CBC, and that's why I ed what and how

437
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: rye friends up in Canada. You know that was because

438
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: he had a seat Canadian audience. But I had to

439
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: go to Minneapolis with a family to see American Bandstand

440
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: and see Bobby ry Dell performed that afternoon, lip syncing

441
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: as they all did on American bands to Butterfly Baby,

442
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: and during the instrumental, pulling a girl out of the

443
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: audience a teeny bopper and a poodle skirt and dance

444
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: dancing with her was phenomenal and the girl was flushed afterwards,

445
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: Dick so suave. What did you think, my dear about

446
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: Bobby Red? You know? And this just stuck with me

447
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 2: and the Philly sound, I loved it both times. You know,

448
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: there's probably more than two, but you know, the last

449
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: time I remember it was a great gamble and huff

450
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: I'm Philly's soul. But before that, American Bandstand with with

451
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: the Dovells, d d Sharp, all these great acts coming

452
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: out of Philly, the uh Watusi you know, I think

453
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: I guess I was ddee sharp. But who am I

454
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: trying to think of the Orleans? Uh, don't hang up, no, no, man,

455
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 2: I used to after school. You know, I didn't buy

456
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 2: the records play play them. And you know that intro

457
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 2: of One Fine Day by the Chaffons that Peril King

458
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: played amazing to play that down, and so it's way

459
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: before the Beatles, really wait, by way before I made

460
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: man a good three years three three years before.

461
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: Okay, So at what point did you start playing in

462
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: bands with other people?

463
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: There was a hip guy in my in high school.

464
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 2: Uh Rick Lazar was his name. Uh. He was of

465
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 2: Assyrian origin, and he was himself a young musician, saxophone player,

466
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: smoker sacks always smell like cigarettes. And heard me, you know,

467
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 2: I would have been grade nine or something, first year

468
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: of high school, heard me. He would he a year older,

469
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: heard me in the assembly playing something by the Beatles

470
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: or something you know pop, and he actually, you know,

471
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: made his business to introduce himself to me and say,

472
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 2: let's I can get the music room. He said, at lunchtime,

473
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: we can go in there, let's play some records and

474
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: just play a little bit. My first real jam session

475
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: with another guy and we got on. We played the

476
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: Paul Butterfield album, first Paul Butterfield album that he had.

477
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: That's how Hippi he was, you know, up in thunder Bay,

478
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: and it set on the back of the album. Play

479
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 2: this for best results, play at top volume right and

480
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: we absolutely did, turned it up full and just a

481
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: little square vinyl player in the music room. And that

482
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: was and he had a band already. He was in

483
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: a band. They were first called the Laurentians, named after

484
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: a kind of Pontiac car that was only available on Canada.

485
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they weren't named after the mountain range. They

486
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: were named after the Pontiac.

487
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: They were named after the Pontiac because another band even

488
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: earlier in town was called Bonneville's. And we had a

489
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 2: guy who wanted to do everything they did because they

490
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: seemed to be successful. So this is pretty early Ricky,

491
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: Funky Ricky. We called him Rick Lazar. His middle name

492
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: was shad Rack. Sometimes he went by Shad as a

493
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: guy who wrote my you know, I wrote a little

494
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: book with a great ghostwriter, David Rich, who said, oh

495
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: thank you in this part though, he said, I talked

496
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: about Funky Ricky and Rich's phrase was something like, you

497
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: know he was a two years he was a year

498
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: older in about a decade, Hipper. It was really true

499
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: of him. And I joined his band and they changed

500
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: their name eventually to the Fugitives, the Fabulous Fugitives, and

501
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: they had been a sax instrumental band, Ricky on sacks

502
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: playing Johnny and the Hurricanes stuff crossfire. Ricky could do

503
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: a technique called the flutter toongue I think, and Peter

504
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: Gunn of course. And then when the Beatles hit, right

505
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: as I was joining, they added vocals, one guy, Bobo

506
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: Bob Anyak. He could sing very well, and they added

507
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: me to their band on keyboards. They had had no

508
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: keyboard before. So now I started doing gigs and I

509
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: joined the af M Musicians Union. Even up there, I

510
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: had to join the unions. We were a union band.

511
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: Became a Union member, and we would do a gig.

512
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: Bucks sometimes was a scale for three hours or twenty

513
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: two dollars for four hour dance. That was the kind

514
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: of okay.

515
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: A couple of questions and what instrument were you taking?

516
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: Because it wasn't long after the Beatles broke in America

517
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: that the Dave Clark five broke and Mike Smith had

518
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: his portable organ whatever, So what were you taking the gigs?

519
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, well, Mike Smith had the holy grail of

520
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: pol Combo organs, the Voux Continental, so beautifully designed. The

521
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: way it looked was fabulous, the chrome legs and the

522
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: shape of a Z. And they were made in Italy,

523
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: these these Vox organs, but marketed by Vox out of Britain.

524
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: I never knew the breed.

525
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were. They took over I think it was

526
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: the Thomas something like that. There was a there was

527
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: a collapse. But these organs cost one thousand dollars in Canada,

528
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: a little out of my range. However, what they you know,

529
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: financial arrangement. I worked out with my dad to pay

530
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: him back a little bit each gig, which he eventually

531
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: forgot about. Don't worry about it. But I bought a

532
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: Honer organ. Honer organ just because it was in the

533
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: music store, really no other reason, and it didn't cost

534
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 2: a whole thousand dollars. And I got that in an amp.

535
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: And the amp was a Trainer amp because the Trainer

536
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: was a Canadian company out of Toronto, t R A

537
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: Y and O R. And you know again, better prices,

538
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: not a great not great for keyboards. I later got

539
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: a better you know, because it was good for guitar.

540
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: It had a lot of distortion. But yeah, lugging around

541
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: my own amp and keyboard. There was no such thing

542
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: as Roadie's then, I don't the word hadn't even come along.

543
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: And always thirty below, you know, So it was always

544
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: gigging after the gig, a little soaking, wet loading the

545
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: equipment into the back of the car. I think, ironically

546
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: we may have had a Pontiac lavension, always sit, always

547
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: getting the flu because you know, so cold and always

548
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: wet from the gig and stuff. Those are my my

549
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Toronto can and sometimes even going by the A and

550
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: W drive in wet stuff in the back. Then you

551
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: get home, you know, after a big Hamburger from anw

552
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: too cold to unload. So sometimes try to leave the

553
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: amp out wow in the in the car, but you

554
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: only do that once because the tubes freeze in the

555
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: cold thirty below, and it's just you know, got to

556
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: replace all the tubes. Had all that happen to me.

557
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so when did you first hear the Beatles?

558
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I heard any music before the

559
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: Sullivan Show or not their appearance on the Sullivan Show. Certainly,

560
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: I I could pick ups AM radio from Chicago as

561
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: early as Dick Beyondy.

562
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: And were you a big listener, Yes, with your transistor

563
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: under the pillow, the whole bit.

564
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: A whole bit. The transistor was a rocket radio in

565
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: the shape of a rocket. It was a crystal radio

566
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 2: where you tuned it in. I could hear Dick Beyondi

567
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: on this crystal radio and he just died. By the way.

568
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with him? Yeah, well he I you know,

569
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: I came in contact with him a little bit later on,

570
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: so I you know, he's known to have played the

571
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: Beatles for the first time. I'm not sure if that's

572
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: true or not. So I may have heard the music,

573
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: but certainly saw no. I guess I did, because I

574
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: guess I kind of knew the songs a little bit

575
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: when I saw them on Sullivan and that was quite

576
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 2: a revelation. But I got to say, and I say

577
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: this more and more in my old crabby age, but

578
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: I can't believe the number of MUSICI certainly well Americans

579
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: and Canadians who just cite no matter how old, even

580
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: if they're older than I am. Cite that Beatles on Sullivan.

581
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: That's when I picked up a guitar, you know, Oh yeah,

582
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: they're all. Joe Walsh comes to mind. You know, a

583
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: guy you know who is such credibility as a musician

584
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: and stuff, but wasn't really into it till he heard

585
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: the Beatles. Not the case with me when I heard

586
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: the Four Seasons though, when they are.

587
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So what are the key Four Seasons tracks for you?

588
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, good goodness, gracious Sherry was the first one,

589
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 2: of course, infectious, Big Girls Don't Cry. That opening weird.

590
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so the sound is, you know, just

591
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: stuck with me. Maybe that one, And that's what they

592
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 2: did on a Sullivan. They did Big Girls Don't Cry,

593
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: and that opening is just so strange, Frankie's voice on

594
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: the top, the way the other guys saying we're strange too.

595
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: Turns out they had been like club musicians in Jersey

596
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: all these years, and they were not young when they

597
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: hit Sullivan. They were already in there, maybe thirty five.

598
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: You know. They had a look that I wasn't familiar with,

599
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: and they had those ties those formal times. Yeah like that,

600
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: but that Wow. I mean that galvanized me. And then

601
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: the great Bob Gaudio, who wrote a lot of that

602
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: early stuff, and you know, was so kind of the

603
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 2: musical leader. The way he stood on stage, I'll never

604
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: forget it. He was pointed upstage. They didn't know how

605
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: to shoot or deal with a big piano or organ

606
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: at that time, so they had him kind of pointed

607
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: upstage and he would put stretch his neck around to

608
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: get back to the mic, and oh to see it,

609
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: you know, and that that kind of stuck with me.

610
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: But then followed them, and as you know, were they

611
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: really the only American group that kept having hits well

612
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 2: through through.

613
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: The one other band because we had Cherry, we had

614
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: you know, big girls, Beach Boys, and they exactly So

615
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: were you a beach.

616
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: Sure? How can you not be a Beach Boys fan? Absolutely?

617
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 1: Even though there's a summer of sixty four was Dawn

618
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: and Go Away, and I get around, But.

619
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 2: I get around it. You know, brilliant if they're both

620
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: brilliant in their own in their own way, and you

621
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: don't have to go to pet sounds, you know, for

622
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: the intellectual Beach Boys to think that they're great, I

623
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 2: get around. Was a knockout musically. Now do you know okay,

624
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 2: do you know the first line of the first lyric

625
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: of the one that Al Jardine sings.

626
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, since you put me down, I've been out

627
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: doing in my head.

628
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: Well you see that, out doing in my head. I

629
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 2: never learned that until I used to finally get to

630
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: see them live a little bit, became very close friends

631
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: with Billy Hinschy, one of their side. I knew Billy absolutely,

632
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: very sad passion, yes and so. But he told me

633
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: it was you know, nobody knows that but you and

634
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: me and Billy. Yeah out and Al Jardine out doing

635
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: in my head? What a what a crazy lyric? People

636
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: think it's you know, up to it in my.

637
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: Head or but there's some other ones okay on uh

638
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: summer days and summer nights.

639
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

640
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: That had California Girls first song on the second side,

641
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: and it had the single version of Helped Me Ronda

642
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: at the end of the first side when Beach Boys

643
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: Today had a studio version wasn't mixed the same way.

644
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: But before help Me Ronda, there's a song that Carl

645
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: sings called girl Don't Tell Me Hey Girl, And you

646
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: know there were saying you know there were certain lyrics there.

647
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: I didn't have any idea what they were until the internet. Hit.

648
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 2: Ah, that's a great one, girl, don't tell me. Oh right, yeah,

649
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: maybe Brian wrote those lyrics himself. You know, I'm not sure.

650
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: I'm kind of a Beach Boys student too, and I

651
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: you know, I can keep up with a lot of

652
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: these fanatics who can talk Beach Boys twenty four hours

653
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: a day, and I can be okay, I ask you,

654
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: right with them.

655
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: Let's go to the other fanatics. What about the Grateful

656
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: Dead in the Boss fanatics?

657
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: Well, okay, you want me to too.

658
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm okay, I'm gonna go into this. Okay, Okay,

659
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: I'm fans of both of those acts. I always say

660
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: with Springsteen, I saw him at the bottom Line in

661
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: seventy four, the year before Born to Run, he premiered

662
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: jungle Land, and then The Grateful Dead I saw a

663
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: million times in the seventies. And you have all these

664
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: people who are not there, no matter what you say,

665
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: they're bigger authorities than you are. No, no, no, was

666
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: it this show blah blah blah blah blah. I was

667
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: wondering if you had any of those experiences.

668
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: Well, you know, reguarding the Dead, I must confess I

669
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: didn't really get them until I got a chance to

670
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 2: play with Jerry Garcia. Ok.

671
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: Well, a little bit slower because Jerry has such a

672
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: legend and you were familiar somewhat with the music by

673
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: time that happened. Uncle John's band been out, et cetera.

674
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: What was the experience of playing with Jerry?

675
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: Well, say, that's the whole thing. I mean, first time

676
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: I saw them live it was with the closing of

677
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: winter Land in about seventy eight, okay or seventy you

678
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: know where we I was with the Blues Brothers at

679
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 2: that time. Akroyd and Belushi from the SNL.

680
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: I saw you at the Universally Amphitheater.

681
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: Oh wow, sure the first time, of course. Well that

682
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: was you know, yeah, that was pretty good. The Rubber

683
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: Biscuit did that first album, Rubber Biscuit, right, Dakroyd just

684
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: came up with that one out of it, you know,

685
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: I don't know where, but we opened and then the

686
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: New Writers and the Dead right, so, you know, the

687
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: Dead were just starting at midnight and going on and

688
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: they broadcast live and stuff. And at this point, no,

689
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 2: I did not understand them. I started to understand, you know,

690
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 2: what they were supposed to be doing, but I couldn't

691
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: penetrate it. When Jerry and Bob where came on Letterman, uh,

692
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: and then I saw them, you know, we got to

693
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: I was around them when they did SNL two the

694
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: various time. But when the two of them just came

695
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 2: on and let him and play with my band, and

696
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: Jerry turned to the band like Miles Davis. Somehow he

697
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 2: was so open, he opened his heart up to us,

698
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: and I started hearing him. It was just it was

699
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: then that I realized what he's doing. I couldn't understand

700
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: it before, but he his spirit. You know, that's my

701
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: personal experience with him right musically unbelievable. I became an

702
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: accolade right there. Okay, is it acolyte?

703
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: So you were a keyboard player. A lot of prog

704
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: rock is keyboard beast. Were you a fan of prog rock?

705
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: I guess not not really. I didn't hear any I mean,

706
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: schmoss rock has not really even been named. But if

707
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: there was such a thing, that's me I'm looking for.

708
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 2: I don't know, chords, melodies, things like that. Certainly, yes,

709
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: you know some of those hits absolutely roundabout. Yeah, great,

710
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: I can hear it in my head and great, you

711
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: know all that keyboard is great, certainly, Rick Wickman a

712
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: fan Lord John Lord incredible. I don't know if that

713
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: counts as prog rock. When they did Hush, well, that's.

714
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: You know that they were there earlier. You know, we've

715
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: sort of gotten that. But let's go back. You were

716
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: talking about playing with the guy, the saxophone player playing

717
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: jamming on the Paul Butterfield band. I think East West

718
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: was the first one. No, that was the second one. Second,

719
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: first one. I was not a big Butterfield fan. I

720
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: was out of that bat. That of course, was that

721
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: you were playing the records at home on the piano.

722
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: This was in the era although I was in the

723
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: New York radio market. We had to own it to

724
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: hear it in many cases, so there's certain blank spots.

725
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: But Okay, the reason I bring this up is we

726
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: have the Beatles, we had the British invasion, We have

727
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and in nineteen sixty seven in San Francisco

728
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: and in New York, the first underground FM radio stations. Okay,

729
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 1: and Hendrick is sixty seven, Cream is sixty eight we're

730
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: more of a top forty guy. Or when that stuff

731
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,439
Speaker 1: came he said, I'm into that too.

732
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: Oh. I was into that too because I was in

733
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: college going to going to University of Toronto, and Toronto

734
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: had an relatively early FM station, CHUM FM.

735
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: Right of course, yeah, great station, okay, And so.

736
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: I was listening in college and you know, Knights in

737
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 2: White Satin comes to mind. Right, that was heavy rotation there.

738
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: But certain things I got a line on you spirit,

739
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: I guess I was kind of picking the hits out

740
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 2: of that stuff, but certainly was into how could you

741
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: not be into FM radio and those DJs? Who there

742
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: was one DJ still going up there. I think when

743
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: he first came on the scene, his name with Dave Mickey. Yeah,

744
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 2: he was like a beyond, you know, a BEYONDI of Canada.

745
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: But then he became Dave Marsen.

746
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: You know. Scott Muni was on AM seventy seven WABC

747
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: on number one in the nation, Scott Muni Show. Then

748
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: he was on WADW. Hello, this is Scott Beauty. I mean,

749
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 1: you couldn't believe it was the same guy.

750
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: Got a great Scott any story, Okay, tell us nineteen

751
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: eighty one, I was doing studio work. It was just

752
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: a year before Letterman started. And after I had left SNL,

753
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: just studio work, a lot of jingle work in New York,

754
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: playing on Coca Cola and whatever, you know, the products,

755
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 2: and I was in that business. And then I went

756
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: and took a little vacation to Hawaii with my wife

757
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: and gotten a bad car accident there and broke all

758
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: nine ribs in the shoulder and everything, and took a

759
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: good three years to recover. Letterman started in the middle

760
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: of my recovery. Dave Letterman still remembers you said there

761
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 2: was you came in for that first meeting. You said

762
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 2: you were kind of walking on an angle. I knew

763
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: something was wrong. I had had that I had had

764
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: that accident. I was in the hospital and in Honolulu

765
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: for twelve days. And while I was there, we kind

766
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: of got around in New York and all my lovely

767
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: friends in the studio business and jiggle business called me

768
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: there you you know, hope you're okay, and everything was

769
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: very nice of them. I was morphined out and stuff.

770
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: One guy though, and he's no longer with us, Hillary Lipsitz.

771
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: That's the way he spoke. He produced a lot of things,

772
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 2: including you know when the when the four seasons saying

773
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: things go better with coke in that era, he produced

774
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: all that stuff and he said, here, Paul, he spoke

775
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: like that all right over there in Honolulu, here's say

776
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: a load of my friend. He was a big drinker,

777
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: and he put his drinking buddy on the phone. Here,

778
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: this is Scott Muni. He says, say a load of

779
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: Daddy butter tie over there. Wqaw over there, good friend

780
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 2: of mine over there in Honolulu. Wow, I said, Scott,

781
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: I'm in an oxygen town. I'm not going to say

782
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 2: a load to a DJ. But thanks though. Anyway, that

783
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 2: was that lovelier of the colony.

784
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 3: Nonetheless, Okay, before we leave thunder Bay, what was it

785
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 3: like being Jewish in thunder Bay?

786
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: Well, not too many Jewish families, although when I was

787
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: a kid growing up there there were forty families. That

788
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: was a lot. I think it's a lot less now.

789
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was different. I didn't you know, certainly

790
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 2: wasn't aware of any anti Semitism there. It may have existed.

791
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 2: I may have been just to it too naive to

792
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: know about it. Certainly didn't get into my in my way,

793
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 2: you know, we would take off the high holidays and

794
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: and that w was be big in the school and

795
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: we were allowed to miss a couple of days, you know,

796
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: but we would be watching the World Series anyway at home.

797
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: That's what I remember mostly, how about it?

798
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: So what point do you say this is my profession,

799
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 1: this is my job? When do you have that light

800
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: bulb moment?

801
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: Not until college University of Toronto, chum FM playing and

802
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 2: first year. I mean I certainly didn't have the nerve

803
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 2: to even think myself that I was going to go

804
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 2: into any kind of show business. No, absolutely too far

805
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: fetched coming from thunder Bay and the Canadian in general,

806
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: Canadians can be a little pessimistic. You know, who do

807
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: you think you are? You know you you got to

808
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: be a big stay. So I was. And my dad,

809
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: you know, would have loved me to have a profession,

810
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: a real profession. And I didn't. Law didn't see following

811
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 2: in his Footsessen scene, right, But I didn't. I was

812
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: going to try some thing. I don't know, but I

813
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 2: was taking liberal arts, sociology, philosophy and psychology. Got very

814
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: depressed first year. I didn't have a band anymore, I

815
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 2: had no you know, no musical outlet. I didn't exactly

816
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: know why, but I was just sleeping all the time.

817
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 2: Imagine today they'd be diagnosing it as Epstein Barr or something.

818
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: But I was just you know, so sad and then

819
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: but still in Toronto, and it was great because it

820
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 2: was you know, a real city and there were real

821
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 2: rock acts coming and blues acts and a nightclub called

822
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 2: the Rock Pile where you know, very Phil Moore asque

823
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: I guess just opened with Blood Sweat and Tears with

824
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: the Canadian David Clayton Thomas on vocals, whom we knew

825
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: because through his Canadian records and stuff. He was a

826
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: a phenomena up there too. I could sing great, and

827
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: they opened BS and t opened at the Rock Pile,

828
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 2: and I was at all four shows, two on Friday,

829
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: two on Saturday, just starting to you know, study this stuff,

830
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 2: get excited about it, but still you know, trying to

831
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 2: do philosophy and things, a little bit of an ecotomy.

832
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 2: Stayed in New York, stayed in Toronto that summer, didn't

833
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: go back to thunder Bay, and I said I'd love

834
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: to maybe, as you know, Blood Sweat and Tears in Chicago.

835
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: And so the first time horns started making their way,

836
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 2: although Bobby or Adell's records had horns, but they featured them,

837
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 2: I guess. And I said to my parents, I'd like

838
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: to stay in Toronto and take an arranging course this summer,

839
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,760
Speaker 2: and they, you know, I sold them on that. Really

840
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 2: I wanted to be where the action was, oh, Toronto

841
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 2: town instead of you know, thunder Bay. But I took

842
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 2: this arrange of course, and it sure is a good

843
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: thing I did. It's really the only training I have

844
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: in arranging, and I kind of became an arranger. So

845
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: that was good, good luck. But one night, oh, I

846
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,439
Speaker 2: started you know, listening, getting a little bit into the

847
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 2: Toronto jazz scene too, sometimes going to see a guitar

848
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 2: stuff there named Sonny Greenwich, incredible Coltrane inspired. And one night,

849
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 2: early morning, actually coming home that summer after I don't

850
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 2: know what, I got a job in a bar band

851
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: very easily and played covers that summer to support myself.

852
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: Coming home at six am. A guy sitting on a

853
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: stoop in their village. They had kind of a Greenwich

854
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: village there called Yorkville. A guy sitting on a stoop

855
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: of a deli playing guitar acoustic guitar and I walked

856
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 2: by and hear a couple of notes and said, holy,

857
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: I walk right. I double take and I go right

858
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 2: back and start listening to him, and it just blows

859
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: my mind. He's out, He's playing, you know, it's like

860
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: Coltrane again on guitar scales that I've never heard of,

861
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: not blues based in any way, only guitarists. Really, I

862
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 2: ever heard like that. I said, what are you doing?

863
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,919
Speaker 2: And that very morning we went over to the UFT

864
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 2: practice room and he started showing me stuff, opening me

865
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: up and really in the old fashioned way. He started

866
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: me on standards. My parents knew all the standard and

867
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 2: I knew them, but couldn't hear them. Couldn't hear those

868
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: slightly more sophisticated chords. He showed me a couple of things.

869
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, things started unlock, and I really

870
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: started to think I could maybe, maybe I could be

871
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: a musician. I started playing with him, apprenticing with him.

872
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: Eventually he came back to New York. He was in

873
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: New York originally, and I still play with him. I

874
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: just did an album, produced an album with him.

875
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: Just how is it somebody we know?

876
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: He's unknown? He should be known. His name is Desigi Munios,

877
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 2: maybe a little on you own because you can't pronounce

878
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: his name, but that's the kind of a spiritualistic name,

879
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: you know. Munios is his real last name.

880
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: What was he doing out at six am?

881
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 2: Uh? He had just gone to town and it was

882
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 2: free you know, we were free spirits. I was out

883
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 2: at six am two coming home walking through the village.

884
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 2: He was playing. I started playing with him right then

885
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: and then and then I got him. So I graduated

886
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: at that point, you could, you know, there were thirteen

887
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 2: years of high school, but then you could get a

888
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 2: degree after three years, which I took like an undergrad

889
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: bachelor's degree. And I said to my parents, let me,

890
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: you know, give me a year. See what happens if

891
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: I'm starving. I don't know. Maybe i'd go to grad school.

892
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly, but you know, i'd try. Maybe

893
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: I could be a professor. I didn't, you know, I

894
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: still didn't over. Just give me a year. And I

895
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 2: played with Desigi Minios. These out gigs, hippie kind of

896
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 2: style gigs is what we played actually, and lounge gigs

897
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 2: at the same time. And then when I would accompany

898
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: people who were auditioning for shows. That was another thing

899
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: I could do and make like I would charge twenty

900
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 2: bucks wait, but.

901
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: A little bit slower because there are stars and then

902
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: they are working musicians, and anybody who knows working musicians

903
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: is it's all based on networking and the gift of gab.

904
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,959
Speaker 1: So to what degree were you working it in order

905
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: to get these gigs for auditions, et cetera.

906
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 2: I was not smooth at all at that time. I

907
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 2: was shy and under confident. But I could play rock

908
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,879
Speaker 2: and roll on the piano because I could do it

909
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 2: in that assembly with pipeline and people would remember me

910
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: if I could get heard. And that's all I was

911
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: trying to do too, and taking gigs, you know, lounge gigs,

912
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: Well I took. I took a gig just because I could,

913
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 2: you know, if it was going to be a cover band,

914
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: I just know all. I knew all the songs I

915
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: could play, and I already could play a little organ,

916
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: which was big, but you know, special technique involved with Oregon.

917
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: Of course I could do that. If I had to

918
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 2: audition for a band, you know, absolutely no problem. So

919
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 2: I had that confidence, but no confidence as far as

920
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: interpersonal or anything but confidence on the keyboard, and I

921
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: took a gig. We're going to go up to northern

922
00:55:53,920 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: Quebec and play for missile bases, Canadian missile based troops. There,

923
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 2: Canadian troops in the dead of winter on a bus

924
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 2: and I did that. It was like my first professional tour,

925
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 2: if you will. I had just a gas and I

926
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 2: met a girl on their Avril chown. She was a

927
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: singer who was going to do a few numbers for

928
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 2: the troops. And she said, I'm auditioning for a show.

929
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 2: It's coming on New York show Godspell, the auditions next week.

930
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 2: Could you play for me? And I want to do

931
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: a song from the show if we could learn it together,

932
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: which we did and she I charged you twenty bucks.

933
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 2: We learned one of the songs from the Godspell from

934
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: the cast album when we went to the auditions, and

935
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: she made it through the first auditions and for the

936
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: final audition. Stephen Schwartz came to town. He was the

937
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 2: composer of Godspell. That was his first show. Now he's

938
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: a composer of Wicked, biggest show ever. I think literally

939
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: two movies being made about it, as you know, right.

940
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,839
Speaker 2: But anyway, he's in town and Avril comes up her

941
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 2: name Avril Chown and sings this song of his from

942
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 2: the show, and he says, I want to talk to

943
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: that piano player. And he said, can you play the

944
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 2: rest of the auditions? He said, this guy I've got

945
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: doesn't know any of the songs that people want to sing. Well,

946
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 2: you know, I know most of them were just singing

947
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: Aquarius from Hair anyway, So I played the rest of

948
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 2: the auditions for him, and at the end of the

949
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: day he said, can you put a band together and

950
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: conduct the show? And it was just like as I've

951
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: said Lana Turner and Schwabz, I was discovered, just like.

952
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 1: That, Okay, a little bit slower would before Avril, Were

953
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: you doing auditions for twenty dollars a show.

954
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: Once in a while? Yeah, maybe a local show or something,

955
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: you know, Yes? And I had was.

956
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: This, someone would tear your name off in the grocery store.

957
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: How did they find you?

958
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: Just they would find me? I don't know, I can't,

959
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm trying to get into the business.

960
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 2: So I might show up at a jam session or

961
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 2: something and somebody, hey, you know, can you play for me?

962
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: And okay, I had that you know, so.

963
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: You put together the band for Godspell. Godspell's playing, that's

964
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: a lot of work, okay, usually eight shows a week

965
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: whatever one say the week? Guess yes, okay, So in reality,

966
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: all that popular music, you're playing, lounge music whatever, you

967
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: don't even have time for that because you're playing a Godspell.

968
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: Was that well, that's right.

969
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 2: I left all those gigs behind and was that the final?

970
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: Was that fine with you? That now you're the musical

971
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: conductor and piano player for Godspell and you're not in

972
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: any other band whatever?

973
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely? It was way more legit than I thought

974
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: I would go I and it turned out my career

975
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 2: kind of went in that direction. But I thought, you know,

976
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 2: I'd be in a band and work by ear as

977
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: bands do you know rock bands do. But I had taken, luckily,

978
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 2: I had taken some piano lessons and this one year

979
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 2: one arranging course. But you know, I could read my site.

980
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 2: Reading was never any good and it still isn't. The

981
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 2: piano teachers are right back when they said, you know,

982
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: don't play by ear, you won't learn to read, and

983
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: that was the case with me. I can play by year,

984
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 2: but I can't reading is not I can read and

985
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 2: I can arrange. I have the knowledge, I just can't

986
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: sight read some of these rehearsal canis put anything in

987
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: front of them, they could play it. I can't. So

988
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 2: they had to send me the score and I in advance.

989
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: Luckily they did, and I worked on it hard learning it.

990
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 2: Luckily I had the album I could I could learn,

991
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: you know, I had that to hear for that opening,

992
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 2: really hard. No, you know, I've worked and worked and

993
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 2: worked on thrilled to be in Godspell. No other bands.

994
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: That's where we are and how long you in Godspell

995
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: before the next step.

996
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 2: I did a year of Godspell in in Toronto, and

997
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: during that time Steven Schwartz got a movie deal and

998
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: they made a movie out of Godspell and he brought

999
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 2: me in from Toronto to play on the score first

1000
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: time in New York in a New York recording studio.

1001
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: I came into two different times, one to play on

1002
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 2: various songs because he did like the leg you know.

1003
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: He allowed me to put my own licks in because

1004
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't really read exact anyway, and he liked it

1005
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: it put it on the movie score, and then he said,

1006
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: when this show up here, I'd never take you out

1007
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 2: of the show up here, he said, but when it's over,

1008
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: I want you to come New York and he did

1009
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 2: show ended. I spent some time just really not doing

1010
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: much in Toronto, not committing, kind of having this in

1011
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 2: the back of the mind. My mind is sure enough.

1012
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 2: Shworts called, I'm doing this in nineteen seventy four. Now

1013
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: I'm doing the Magic Show on Broadway, coincidentally with the Canadian,

1014
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: the late great Doug Henning, the magician come down and

1015
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 2: play for that. And that's when I moved to New York.

1016
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: And any immigration issues or you got the well.

1017
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 2: I got a I got My first permit was an

1018
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 2: H two category, which they got me to do the

1019
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: Magic show. But it said you can only play the

1020
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 2: Magic show. You can't go and do other gigs. So

1021
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: this isn't good for somebody who's trying to get around,

1022
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 2: you know. I could only do things for free instead

1023
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 2: of jam sessions and stuff. But at least I was

1024
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: making a living doing the Magic show. Looking for an

1025
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 2: immigration lawyer who can get me, you know, lead to

1026
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: be into this country and open this visa maybe so

1027
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: I could do other gigs, but no lawyers wanted any

1028
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 2: you know, they just said, we got enough pianists here,

1029
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: we don't need you. If you were a nuclear scientist,

1030
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 2: maybe I can't help you. Finally, I came across one

1031
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 2: guy who said, well, you've gone to prove to them

1032
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: that you're not here to take a job away from

1033
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: an America. You're here to provide a unique and that's

1034
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 2: the keyword, unique service to America. And he says, if

1035
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: you can come up with something like that, especially if

1036
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 2: it's kind of technical and musical, an immigration officer couldn't

1037
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 2: question it. You've got to be a musician, you know,

1038
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 2: then we have a chance. First thing we would do

1039
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 2: is get you your status change, and now if they

1040
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 2: admit you're unique, then we can then go on get

1041
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: you a green card, which I have eventually got and

1042
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 2: now I'm a citizen and okay, proud of.

1043
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: So tell me how did you prove you were unique?

1044
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 2: Well? I said, how about this, the lawyer, what if

1045
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 2: I could prove I'm an expert in music and comedy

1046
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 2: and how they intercept, providing music for comedy and understanding comedy,

1047
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 2: knowing where the laps are, what's funny, whatever you know?

1048
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 2: And he said sounds good, And I got letters from

1049
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 2: all kinds of people. I had done a few things already.

1050
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: I was able to get a letter from Norman Lear

1051
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 2: because I had done a pilot for him that went nowhere.

1052
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 2: I got a letter from well, I can't remember, oh,

1053
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: a guy who owned the National Lampoon. I was doing

1054
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 2: stuff for the National Lampoon Radio hour, working with Chris

1055
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 2: Guest there and Bill Murray. That's you know, networking, you

1056
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 2: meet people. That's an example of it. So I got

1057
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 2: letters and sure enough it worked, and it's exactly what

1058
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 2: the immigration officer said. He said, I'm sure this is

1059
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: you know, I can't question it. It's not my area.

1060
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: And I got a different you know, that's when I

1061
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 2: got my green card.

1062
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so your status changes. How does that open up

1063
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 1: your career?

1064
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 2: Then I get to do other things for other people,

1065
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 2: sessions and stuff. Especially at that time, I thought if

1066
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 2: I could be a session man, play on records, and

1067
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, we started to learn what that was us

1068
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,439
Speaker 2: fans when we heard about the Muscle Shoals, rhythm section

1069
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: and stuff. And then now we know about the Wrecking

1070
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: Crew and how there's these people making records in the

1071
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: studios going from sessions. It sounded wonderful to me, and

1072
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 2: I started getting little by little get dates like that

1073
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 2: again networking. Like you said, what kind of dates, Well,

1074
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 2: there was a I've left out an interesting thing. I

1075
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 2: mentioned Norman Lear. I was very aware, you know, as

1076
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 2: a fan up in Canada, even of Don Kirshner. He

1077
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: was the.

1078
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: Pubblic This was before the TV show when it was

1079
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: the Monkeys and everything.

1080
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 2: Well it was yeah, this is post monkeys. Yeah, but

1081
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 2: in the seventies, right, he said, I was. I was

1082
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 2: doing the Magic Show, right, you know, very early, knowing

1083
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 2: various actors, though I knew Broadway type of people. There's

1084
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 2: a guy named Don Scardino played Jesus in various Godspell companies.

1085
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 2: He became a director TV director, very successful. And he said,

1086
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 2: you know, we're all in our twenties. He said, I

1087
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 2: had just auditioned for this show, Don Kirshner, He's going

1088
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 2: to try to do a Monkey's in the seventies. And

1089
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I got the part for the pilot,

1090
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 2: he said, And I told him, you know about you,

1091
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 2: You're funny and maybe they want a real musician. So

1092
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 2: I auditioned for Kirshner and got the part. And before

1093
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 2: I knew it. I was in Hollywood and we made

1094
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 2: a pilot called Hereafter, and Jeff Barry, one of Donnie's guys,

1095
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 2: came in to produce and wrote the theme. That's when

1096
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 2: I met how I met Jeff Barry. I'm going to

1097
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 2: do this thing with him. On the September thirteenth, Jeff

1098
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: and I made a song together. He produced it. I

1099
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 2: wrote it with Scardino. Kirshner brings it back to New York.

1100
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 2: He's playing it in his office. Kirshner's demo singer is

1101
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: ron Dante, who has become Barry Manilo's producer. Barry knew

1102
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 2: on the scene now and he's got Ohmandy and I

1103
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 2: write the songs. Ron Dante produced all those things with

1104
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 2: Barry and Rondante. Here's this Jeff Barry thing, and he

1105
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: hears my arrangement. He says, that's not Jeff's style. Jeff

1106
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 2: is sugar Sugar, so he says he started using me

1107
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: as a ranger and first artist. His artist was a

1108
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 2: guy named Paul Jabbara. Of course, Paul was going to

1109
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 2: try to be an artist. I was doing a chart.

1110
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 2: Paul's song was called One Man Ain't Enough. He was

1111
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 2: already mining those humorous aspects of love, and we made

1112
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 2: a good record, Ron producing and I got I wrote

1113
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: strings and stuff disco. Nothing happened as an artist for

1114
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 2: Paul Jabbara, but way later he moved to La He

1115
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 2: won an Oscar for wrinning last Dance for Donna Summer,

1116
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 2: and then he came back to New York. And this

1117
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 2: is about eighty nineteen eighty one, and he called me

1118
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 2: up and he said, you did a great job on

1119
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 2: One Man. Ain't enough with Ron Dante. He said, I

1120
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 2: got a title now for Donna Summer. I want you

1121
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 2: to write it with me. What do you think about

1122
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 2: It's raining Men? And I said I'll be right over.

1123
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 2: And you know that became a.

1124
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: But you said he was writing for Donna Summer. How

1125
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: did it end up with the Weather Girls?

1126
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 2: Well, because Donna Summer heard it and hated it. She

1127
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 2: had become religious by this point and she didn't. She

1128
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 2: was insulted by it and she didn't like especially when

1129
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 2: it said Hallelujah, It's raining men, and she objected to it.

1130
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 2: She sent a bible to Paul. She and Paul were

1131
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 2: great friends, but she rejected the song, and Paul tried

1132
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 2: everything because he knew his kind of flamboyant guy, if

1133
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 2: you will, who knew all the divas at the time,

1134
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 2: and he played it for everybody, Diana Ross, Patty LaBelle Cheer,

1135
01:08:55,600 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: and they all hated it. It didn't daunt him. He

1136
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 2: made a track and he remembered these two girls they

1137
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 2: used to sing for Sylvester right under the name two

1138
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 2: Tons of Fun. He put their voices on it and

1139
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 2: called them the Weather Girls, and that when it became

1140
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 2: a hit, they were glad to go and work as

1141
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 2: the Wedder Girls.

1142
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 1: A couple of questions, yes, sir, hey, what was it

1143
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 1: like to have a hit?

1144
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 2: Kind of amazing for me, of course, being so tuned

1145
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 2: to the radio stade. This song took off very gradually,

1146
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 2: interestingly enough, and it became a number one dance record

1147
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 2: right away, but as far as top forty, it got

1148
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: to about forty three.

1149
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 1: It's one of those songs everybody knows, but if you

1150
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: look it up in the chart numbers not qu.

1151
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,520
Speaker 2: Just forty three, just out of the top forty. Nonetheless,

1152
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 2: it started taking off another country's end, and when it

1153
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 2: turned out to be the right tempo for aerobics, it's fast.

1154
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 2: It's a fast dance temple, which worked in the clubs,

1155
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 2: and it also worked for aerobics, and that's when it

1156
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 2: crossed out of the gay clubs into the masses. You know,

1157
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 2: women liked it too in the gym. So it took

1158
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 2: a long time. Took years for this to kind of happen,

1159
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 2: and then people use it all over the world in

1160
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 2: commercials or movies and stuff. But it kind of, as

1161
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 2: I say, it's not like, wow, I got another top

1162
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 2: ten record. Was never that. It's just kind of a

1163
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 2: gradual swell.

1164
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you write that song? Who owns it? And what

1165
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 1: was your percentage of the one hundred percent ownership?

1166
01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 2: I did not give up my half of the publishing.

1167
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 2: You did not, No, I did not, So I for

1168
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 2: the first time, I do have half the publishing on it.

1169
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 2: Now there's a little deal in praised with Paul Jabbara

1170
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 2: and his descendants. Now he's unfortunately left us, so with

1171
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 2: my share, you know, I share it a little bit

1172
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 2: with them.

1173
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: Well what way did well?

1174
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 2: Because Paul did say you know, hey, I you know

1175
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 2: I want you to write this song. Well you you know,

1176
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 2: And I don't want to get into the details of.

1177
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: That, but just understand, didn't he have the other half

1178
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: of the song.

1179
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 2: He did, but he was signed to a company. He said,

1180
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 2: I'm never going to make any money off this. You've

1181
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 2: got to understand, I'm so in debt to them. With

1182
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 2: all the sessions I do. By the time I recoup,

1183
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:46,680
Speaker 2: I won't make any money. So will you give me

1184
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 2: a little money from your part of the publishing? And

1185
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 2: I did. I'm happy to do it, and you still

1186
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 2: will do it. I still do it, and you still

1187
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 2: own the song. Yes, yes, and I have resisted. I

1188
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 2: have been offered. You know, some of these well, I

1189
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 2: don't know what they call these new publishers that are

1190
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 2: coming buying up people's catalog. Mine certainly isn't worth what

1191
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 2: Springsys is. I only got one song, but I all

1192
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,799
Speaker 2: wrote the Letterman theme too, but that was that. But still,

1193
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 2: you know, some deals have come across. I just said,

1194
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 2: come on, it's my only song. I'm just going to

1195
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 2: hang on to this, see what happens, because I'll tell

1196
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 2: you something when I want to use it for a

1197
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 2: toothpaste commercial in Denmark. If you don't have any publishing,

1198
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 2: you're not going to hear about it, period, and you're

1199
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 2: not going to get paid for it's a different thing

1200
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:35,640
Speaker 2: when you have a little of the publishing than I

1201
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 2: have have it. So that's absolutely true.

1202
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so you have this hit with the Weather Girls.

1203
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: What's the next step for you?

1204
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 2: Just continue? I was already on Letterman by that point.

1205
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: No, no, well let's go back to chapter Oh so,

1206
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 1: oh yeah, So how do you get from Godspell to SNL?

1207
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 2: Godspell or Stephen Schwartz brought me to New York And

1208
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 2: I was already in New York when the SNL people

1209
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 2: showed up. After I had done Godspell in Toronto, I

1210
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 2: was now a theatrical musician. I started doing a few

1211
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 2: other shows getting those calls, and a guy came in

1212
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 2: to play saxophone in the band for one of those

1213
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 2: shows in Toronto, and it was Howard shore Uh. And

1214
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 2: that's when we met and we hit it off. And

1215
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 2: Howard turns out to have been he was in a

1216
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 2: band up in Canada that had some success, Lighthouse of

1217
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 2: course one morning. Yes, he was a saxophone player in that.

1218
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 2: And he was also Lauren Michael's best friend. Oh he

1219
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,719
Speaker 2: had They had gone to summer camp and done shows together.

1220
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 2: So Lauren came to town to do SNL and Howard

1221
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,679
Speaker 2: was his musical director from the old days in camp.

1222
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 2: Howard was gonna, you know, and Howard did a great

1223
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 2: job for them and for him. And I was already

1224
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 2: in town doing the Magic show. Howard called me up,

1225
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 2: had offered me this job, and I was thinking, oh

1226
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: my god, it's going to be variety of every I

1227
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 2: can have to new music every week. I don't know

1228
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 2: if I can cut it. And after I accepted, I

1229
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 2: called Howard one night, Howard, I don't think I'm the

1230
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 2: right guy, and he had to talk me into it.

1231
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: I said, it's not daily. You know, we're going to

1232
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 2: have time to rehearse. You'll have the music. He calmed

1233
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 2: me down, and that's how I got on that show,

1234
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: hired by him. But he said, you know, you were

1235
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 2: hiring a lot of people. You know. Gilda had been

1236
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 2: in Godspell in Toronto. She was from Detroit really, but

1237
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 2: had been up in Toronto. Ackroyd I knew he had

1238
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 2: around backstage Godspell. Belushi was one of the first guys

1239
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 2: I met when I came to New York. To another

1240
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 2: connection I had Brian Doyle Murray. Bill Murray's older brother.

1241
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 2: Brian introduced me around in New York. When I got there,

1242
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 2: Brian introduced me the National Lampoon people. I started working

1243
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 2: with the doing musical parodies and stuff with them.

1244
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: Now, were you the pianist in Lemmings.

1245
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 2: No, let Mes is before my time great pianist in

1246
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 2: Lemmings named Paul Jacobs. He was with the Lampoon even

1247
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: before I and Paul Jacobs and I worked together on

1248
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 2: this one album we made for them called Goodbye Pop.

1249
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,600
Speaker 2: Christopher Guest was with us, that was what he was

1250
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 2: doing at the time. He was in New York at

1251
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 2: the time. We wrote some songs together. We wrote a

1252
01:15:55,240 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 2: song together called Kung Fu Christmas. You know what if

1253
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 2: the stylistics did a Christmas song? That type of thing,

1254
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 2: and that's a collector's item. Goodbye Pop. Nonetheless, some funny

1255
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 2: stuff on it.

1256
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 1: Okay, SNL starts well, the first host was George Carlin

1257
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: was either very yes, that's right, yes, And I watched

1258
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: the first and I ate it was sort of hip.

1259
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 1: It took a couple of months to become a phenomenon. Yeah,

1260
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 1: what was it like being on the show? What was

1261
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,480
Speaker 1: your viewpoint? Looking out?

1262
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 2: Awfully fun to do leading up to the first show,

1263
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe we were going to go alive. It

1264
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 2: didn't seem possible. So many elements, so many different stages

1265
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 2: in that big studio, eight h cutting from one to

1266
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 2: another to another, and it's all going to be live.

1267
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 2: There was no music on the very first show, you know,

1268
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 2: no act that we had to play for or anything,

1269
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 2: as I was man, just the theme and some ins

1270
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 2: and outs, so not too much pressure and in general,

1271
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 2: not so aware of any you know how successful the

1272
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 2: show was being just having the time of my life,

1273
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 2: really doing a doing a network show. And I remember

1274
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 2: the Christmas Show, how much fun that was because of

1275
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 2: remembering watching the you know, Dinah Shore's Christmas Show or

1276
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 2: Andy Williams Christmas, this long tradition and how important television

1277
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 2: was to me up in Canada, and then to be

1278
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 2: a part of a Christmas show myself and getting to

1279
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 2: play for Martha Reeves that that Christmas who Lauren booked.

1280
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: Okay, your breakthrough on camera moment is is Don Kirshner.

1281
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: How did that happen? Well?

1282
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 2: Brian dol Murray was a good friend. As I mentioned, Billy,

1283
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 2: his brother was already on the show. Brian later joined

1284
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 2: SNL as a writer. In fact, he was there as

1285
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 2: a writer when I came back from doing that Norman

1286
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 2: Lear thing with Jeff Barry and Kirshner, and I got

1287
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 2: my when it bombed, I got my old job back

1288
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 2: on SNL and I returned, and I was as always

1289
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 2: though part of writing meetings and stuff. I was there

1290
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 2: for sir, you know, especially if things were going to

1291
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 2: get musical. I was up late with everybody off and

1292
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:27,799
Speaker 2: on Tuesday nights.

1293
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: And.

1294
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 2: Brian had an idea for a musical number. We had

1295
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 2: a character on the show, a running character. He was

1296
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:42,719
Speaker 2: really a writer, Michael O'donahue, one of the key guys,

1297
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 2: uh you know, when it came to attitude, dangerous attitude

1298
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 2: of the show, and he had a character he would

1299
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:53,879
Speaker 2: do on camera sometimes, mister Mike just he was dimly

1300
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 2: lit and he was kind of eerie and stuff. And

1301
01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 2: Brian said, what if we do a thing Garrett Morris,

1302
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 2: our dear friend and actor on it, the only black guy,

1303
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 2: the only black actor on the show at the time, Garrett.

1304
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 2: The idea is Garrett and drag doing Tina Turner, which

1305
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 2: he really tore up, and mister Mike on guitar, and

1306
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 2: so instead of it's instead of Eyking Tina, It's Mike

1307
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:24,679
Speaker 2: and Tina. That was the whole idea. Obviously not much

1308
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 2: of an idea to hang your hat on, but it

1309
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 2: required some exposition. You know, how are we going to

1310
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,680
Speaker 2: set this up? Explain that he's Mike, mister Mike, and

1311
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 2: it's mister Mike and Tina. And I said, I could

1312
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 2: introduce this as Don Kirshner. I had worked with Kirshner,

1313
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 2: of course Jeff Barry on this on This Bomb Show

1314
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 2: at seventy seven, and during that time out in La

1315
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 2: Kirshner was hard again with his uh Don Kirshner's rock

1316
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 2: concert first you know that? And there was another one anyway,

1317
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 2: it didn't call you, yeah, exactly, And Kirscher called me

1318
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 2: one day. He knew I was a big fan of it.

1319
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 2: I gush all over him, you know, I knew all

1320
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 2: about Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart and all of his

1321
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 2: all of that stuff. And he called me up and

1322
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 2: he said, I'm going to go on I've had voiceovers

1323
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 2: all this time on my show introducing the acts. I'm

1324
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 2: going to go on camera myself. He said, you know,

1325
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 2: people are saying, maybe I'm a little stiff. He said,

1326
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 2: but Sullivan was stiff and he had the gig, you

1327
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And I got the gig. He

1328
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 2: spoke very kind of fast and show busy in person.

1329
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 2: You know, I got the gig. You know, I may

1330
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 2: be stiff, and I got the gig, he says, So

1331
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 2: I want you to be there. I'm going to go.

1332
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 2: I want Lucky to be there when I go on

1333
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 2: camera for the first time. And I drove down somewhere

1334
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 2: near Hollywood and Vine to a studio and he's doing

1335
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:50,560
Speaker 2: these intros and I never saw anything so funny because

1336
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 2: he was so animated and fast talking as a publisher.

1337
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:56,200
Speaker 2: But he said, forget about it. You know, we want

1338
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 2: to talk about track record with the Neil Diamonds and

1339
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 2: the Carol Kingdom. They saidakas ever looked at a contract,

1340
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 2: he would go a mile a minute, but when he

1341
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:07,639
Speaker 2: got on camera, he froze up and he I'm Don

1342
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 2: Kashner and this is rock constant, So you know, it

1343
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,640
Speaker 2: stuck with me. And I did at that time to

1344
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 2: introduce my Contina Turner, and that's how that's how that

1345
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 2: came about the show. God blessed them. They were so

1346
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:27,600
Speaker 2: loose that anybody was welcome to get in on it

1347
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 2: if they if they had something that might be funny.

1348
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 1: Okay, but a couple of things. This was when it

1349
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 1: was the Hippis show in the country, and unlike today,

1350
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:44,560
Speaker 1: there was a limited number of outlets. Suddenly you're famous.

1351
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 2: What's it like walking around not famous? Really starting to

1352
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 2: get a little exposure.

1353
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 1: You go to the grocery store people.

1354
01:21:58,040 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 2: I have to say, no, I have to say that's

1355
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:03,640
Speaker 2: certainly did start to happen when Lettermans started. When A

1356
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:08,680
Speaker 2: Letterman Show started in eighty two, there was an amazing difference. Yes,

1357
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 2: and I became sort of well known for sure, but

1358
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,679
Speaker 2: not during the you know, my little roles on SNL

1359
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 2: and by the fifth season I was even known as

1360
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 2: a featured player. These are these, you know, almost the

1361
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 2: semi regular I got that billing and did a few

1362
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 2: you know kershner was really the only thing I could do.

1363
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 2: But they would work me into some other things too,

1364
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 2: But no, I never really got you know, uh, it

1365
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 2: was never really much of a recognition factor until the

1366
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:38,519
Speaker 2: Letterman Show.

1367
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 1: And how did you end up in spinal Tap?

1368
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 2: Well, fifth season of SNL, my fifth and last season,

1369
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:52,719
Speaker 2: Harry Shearer was It was one of his first two

1370
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 2: appearances as a cast member. He became a cast member

1371
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 2: that year and the two of us hit it off,

1372
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 2: and we're still close friends, and we wrote together on SNL.

1373
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 2: First thing we wrote together was a kind of a

1374
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 2: parody of a backers audition. Lauren was really, you know,

1375
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 2: hoping that the two of us would get together and

1376
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 2: write something musical. We didn't know that you could be

1377
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,680
Speaker 2: like Tina Fay and then put it on Broadway. We

1378
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 2: weren't thinking like that at all, you know, but we

1379
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:31,559
Speaker 2: wrote something that we thought was very funny. A backers

1380
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 2: audition for the worst show you could possibly imagine, something

1381
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:43,599
Speaker 2: about the Manson family. B Arthur was a hostess, and

1382
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,760
Speaker 2: she played like a society woman who had lent her

1383
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:50,560
Speaker 2: home for this backers audition. Harry and I Young composers,

1384
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:54,679
Speaker 2: and the rest of the cast. Billy build a Garrett

1385
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 2: playing of the different characters in the show, singing the

1386
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:02,639
Speaker 2: song Garrett as man and singing a song called nine

1387
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 2: because we all know he was into that number nine.

1388
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 2: And the hook was that it was in nine to

1389
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 2: eight times, just like those silly songs in Superstar. Every

1390
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 2: song had to be kind of in different times, so

1391
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 2: that was our so we hit it off strong. And

1392
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 2: when Harry and the guys were developed spinal Tap, Harry

1393
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 2: sold them on me. This guy's funny, and you know

1394
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 2: he would be great for this part. The local promo man,

1395
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 2: and I knew them all. Rob Reiner had had hosted us,

1396
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 2: and I knew them all a little bit. Chris of

1397
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 2: course from from from National Lampoon and McKean socially, so

1398
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 2: they all, you know, it didn't take too much. And

1399
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 2: when I said to Harry, well, so you're going to

1400
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,719
Speaker 2: send me my lines, and he said, you'll be making

1401
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 2: them up, I said what, And it turns out that

1402
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 2: that's that's the way the movie was done. They had

1403
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 2: just seen outlines. No, he had to make the prown lines.

1404
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 1: How long did you actually work on set?

1405
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 2: Two days work. I came out on a weekend to

1406
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 2: do two days work. First day was the scene. Well,

1407
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 2: there's a little problem because I was the local promo

1408
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 2: man and my first scene was I arrived late after

1409
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 2: a gig to the band's hotel and I have to

1410
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 2: talk them into getting up super early the next morning

1411
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 2: to do a radio interview, and they just don't want

1412
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 2: to do it. And I'm going crazy and I this scene,

1413
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 2: you know, well, I was. They put in a thing

1414
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 2: where I took an egg. I once did it in

1415
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 2: realized so frustrated that I smashed an egg right on

1416
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 2: my head and that was in the move in the movie.

1417
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 2: But then I do get them to the next day

1418
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 2: we're shooting in the radio studio. I get them up

1419
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 2: for the early morning interview and there's a DJ ready

1420
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 2: to go to play, a guy playing a DJ. But

1421
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 2: Harry sure is a DJ too, as I'm sure you know,

1422
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 2: very much a perfectionist, and he did. He just didn't

1423
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 2: approve of the way this DJ, the DJ couldn't you know,

1424
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 2: operate his own slip his own card in queuing up

1425
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 2: a record at the same time, couldn't know. Harry just

1426
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 2: didn't approve. So that means that scene had to go,

1427
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 2: and my scene leading up to it that really had

1428
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 2: to go to Aloha. Thank god. It appears as a

1429
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,880
Speaker 2: bonus track on the DVD, the egg Stink the egg thing,

1430
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 2: and then and then they then then they kicked my

1431
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 2: ass scene in the in the record store. All in

1432
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 2: all in two days.

1433
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 1: Okay, the movie comes out. It's sort of the slow burn,

1434
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 1: but it never went away this is Do you start

1435
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:51,559
Speaker 1: getting recognized from that and people telling your lines?

1436
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 2: Do you Every band that came on Letterman had to

1437
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 2: take the dvdeo on their on their bus, the touring bus,

1438
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 2: so they were all familiar with it, and they all said,

1439
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 2: many of them said the same thing, it's not funny

1440
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 2: to us, so real that we don't you know that

1441
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 2: we don't like it, but we watch it anyway.

1442
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 1: Okay, So how'd you get the gig with Letterman?

1443
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 2: Well, you know, at as Saturday at Light Live was

1444
01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 2: ending for me after the first after that fifth season,

1445
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 2: Letterman was starting up a show, a morning show on

1446
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 2: NBC Live in the morning, and they were asked me

1447
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 2: to I got the call to do that show, or

1448
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 2: at least to meet on it, but I may have

1449
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 2: been actually to do it, but it just didn't seem

1450
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 2: right to me the morning, you know how I had

1451
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:53,400
Speaker 2: known a little bit about David Letterban, not too much, though,

1452
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 2: didn't seem right, and I passed on it. You know,

1453
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:01,320
Speaker 2: I felt like I was still young. I didn't have to,

1454
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't know the value of a gig

1455
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 2: like I do now. I passed on and Letterman still

1456
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 2: I would refer to it on the show, Paul, you

1457
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 2: didn't do the morning show, did you know, Dave? Why not?

1458
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 2: I couldn't get up that early. That became a running thing.

1459
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 2: But the show was two hip for the room and

1460
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 2: too hip for the hour, and it didn't succeed. But

1461
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 2: when they they got their notice, you know, but you

1462
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 2: got to keep doing shows. You were canceling, you, but

1463
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 2: you got to keep doing shows for another month. That

1464
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 2: was the funniest month I've ever seen because they were

1465
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 2: no pressure. So I was watching that show not regretting

1466
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 2: that I hadn't done it, though, and then they remembered

1467
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:45,280
Speaker 2: me two years later when he got his night show.

1468
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 2: I got the call again, and this show was going

1469
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:51,839
Speaker 2: to be so late, it was going to be after

1470
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 2: the tonight show, after Johnny carrs. I said, that's that's

1471
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 2: more like it, you know, And I was thrilled to

1472
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 2: do that show. And I came in for a meeting

1473
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 2: with Dave and his producer and we hit it off.

1474
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,679
Speaker 1: And how did you hire the band?

1475
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 2: Well, I had been working in the studios and I

1476
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 2: just hired and I had actually produced for a record

1477
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 2: for a couple of studio guys. Four Studio guys had

1478
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 2: a band together called the twenty four Street Band. Their

1479
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:23,799
Speaker 2: success was only in Japan, but I made a record

1480
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 2: with him, produced a record for that market, and they

1481
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 2: were just some of the best guys and they already

1482
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 2: played together. So it was Will Lee one of the

1483
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:35,600
Speaker 2: all time greatest bass players still to this day, and

1484
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 2: was with me all through the whole Letterman Show till

1485
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 2: the end. I still play with him. Steve Jordan on

1486
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 2: dramas an incredible phenomenon at the time. He's got nothing

1487
01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 2: but bigger since then, and most recently joined the Rolling Stones.

1488
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 2: And Hiram Bullock, the great him Book on Guitar, who

1489
01:29:54,400 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 2: really was like Hendricks but with musical training, has left

1490
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 2: us unfortunately. But he was a first guitar so that

1491
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:10,879
Speaker 2: first crack Man was really strong. The musicians still remembered,

1492
01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:16,799
Speaker 2: and it lasted not too long. It is a certain

1493
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 2: kind of you know, you need a certain kind of

1494
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 2: discipline to be able to show up every single day.

1495
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,560
Speaker 2: Hiram may have been a little too free spirited.

1496
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,400
Speaker 1: So tell me about the evolution. And then you go

1497
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 1: earlier on CBS and you get a female guitar player too.

1498
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Hiram, you know, I had to leave, and

1499
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:38,880
Speaker 2: I tried out lots of guitar players on the air,

1500
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 2: and Sid McGinnis was the best. He had played with

1501
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel, among many others, and I hired him. And

1502
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 2: then when Steve Jordan left, he was getting a little hot,

1503
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:56,719
Speaker 2: you know, just too hot hang around. And Anton fig

1504
01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 2: I had met in the studios. He had played on

1505
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 2: a number of the Kiss records on you know, uncredited,

1506
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:09,320
Speaker 2: and he was just a great, uh studio drummer with

1507
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 2: a rock sound, and he played the show great. So

1508
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 2: there was that when we did that, you know, all

1509
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,240
Speaker 2: those twelve years at NBC. But when it came time

1510
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 2: to move to the earlier hour eleven thirty on CBS,

1511
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 2: there was I just you know, Paul, you got to

1512
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 2: get a bigger band. It's a bigger show. We just

1513
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 2: want a bigger band. That's all that they specified. And

1514
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 2: it was going to be tough because Dave was so spontaneous.

1515
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 2: I think still to this day, we're the only show

1516
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 2: that if something happens out of left field, it's really

1517
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 2: happening out of left field. It's not we rehearsed it before,

1518
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 2: you know, we would rehearse sketches of course they would

1519
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 2: be obvious when we were reading lines. But but if

1520
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:55,519
Speaker 2: something funny happened, if somebody said it something funny in

1521
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:58,639
Speaker 2: the audience, Dave would just chase the whole show. Let's

1522
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:00,920
Speaker 2: go with that, let's you know instead of that, let's

1523
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 2: you know, And then whatever I had planned, you know,

1524
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 2: I stopped planning stuff. Original band only four peaces. We

1525
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 2: could play anything. We didn't need charts. We all kind

1526
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 2: of knew all the song I hired guy. All these guys,

1527
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:17,080
Speaker 2: although they were studio players, they had that in common

1528
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 2: with me. They knew all the rock songs. They were

1529
01:32:20,160 --> 01:32:24,800
Speaker 2: unusual studio players, often older jazz players. They looked down

1530
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 2: on rock. But I found these guys who knew the

1531
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 2: same songs. So it's tough to expand the band. But

1532
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:39,799
Speaker 2: eventually I got it right, Okay.

1533
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 1: Was the original concept that when the bands come on,

1534
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 1: when the musical acts come on, your band would play alone,

1535
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent of the time, but most times.

1536
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 1: Whereas previously Skitch Henderson all these other people they played

1537
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 1: during commercials, but when the musical act came on, they

1538
01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: had their own players.

1539
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 2: Yes, but that wasn't really true of a doc. Severnson

1540
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:06,639
Speaker 2: who you know, if yet in rock and roll era, yeah,

1541
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 2: he didn't play as much. But back in the day,

1542
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:13,280
Speaker 2: if Tony Benn was on, if Frank Sinatra was on,

1543
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 2: you know the yes, the Pouseman was playing, because that

1544
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 2: was their style. They were a big man. Yes, David

1545
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 2: Letterman himself definitely would have loved it if we could

1546
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:27,040
Speaker 2: have played for everybody that He said, you know, anything

1547
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 2: else you can see on MTV, Let's see them interact

1548
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:34,320
Speaker 2: with you guys, And he loved that. And for a

1549
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 2: period of time we did play for a lot of

1550
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 2: the acts. It was good because we didn't have much

1551
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 2: of a stage. We had a very small studio at NBC,

1552
01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:49,479
Speaker 2: and it just was nicer to have a few people

1553
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 2: from the band come nice for everybody. But eventually when

1554
01:33:55,720 --> 01:34:01,439
Speaker 2: we got to CBS, the competition for booking became strong.

1555
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:05,400
Speaker 2: There were other shows. Everybody wanted to get the act first,

1556
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 2: you know, whether it be the Lemonheads or these various

1557
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 2: acts in the nineties and stuff. Much easier for them

1558
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:19,760
Speaker 2: to come in with their own setup, and that's kind

1559
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 2: of became you know, let them, you know, just let

1560
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:24,800
Speaker 2: make it easy. Otherwise they're going to go do jay,

1561
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, so that but why was why? It kind

1562
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:31,880
Speaker 2: of changed and we didn't play for as many people

1563
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:32,599
Speaker 2: by any meaning.

1564
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:37,679
Speaker 1: So were you involved in booking the acts at all?

1565
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:39,280
Speaker 2: No, not at all.

1566
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 1: How far in advance would you know an act was

1567
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:47,599
Speaker 1: coming on and working with rehearsing the material, et cetera.

1568
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:53,360
Speaker 2: Well, it varied. Sometimes we would have enough notice, but

1569
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 2: sometimes it could be the night before that we would

1570
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:01,320
Speaker 2: be playing with somebody and in that case, well, you know,

1571
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 2: in the early days eighties, I was working with a

1572
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 2: cassette machine and cassettes, and I would make cassettes of

1573
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:13,000
Speaker 2: these songs. Get them to everybody. There was no phones,

1574
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 2: couldn't email it, track everybody, get the cassettes, start listening.

1575
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 2: Everyone would do their homework. I started out writing charts

1576
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 2: for people, but then I realized, let them just learn it.

1577
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,120
Speaker 2: That was what I really loved, everybody learning it from

1578
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 2: the record like I used to as a kid. But eventually,

1579
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:35,799
Speaker 2: you know, when I got horns, then I needed charts,

1580
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 2: and then you know, and I had to It was

1581
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:42,799
Speaker 2: back to getting an arranger and getting arrangements for these things.

1582
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: Okay, send out the cassettes the next day the act

1583
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 1: is there, Then what happens.

1584
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 2: Well, we had very little time to do it, less

1585
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:57,519
Speaker 2: than an hour to set them up and also rehearse

1586
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 2: with them. We were we had to be as prepared

1587
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 2: as we could be, that's all. And for the most part,

1588
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:10,639
Speaker 2: they were really surprised and happy, you know, that we

1589
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 2: were able to play their stuff so well. Sometimes we

1590
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 2: would play it more like the record. They hadn't heard

1591
01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 2: it that way. They've been doing it differently on the

1592
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,639
Speaker 2: road with their own bands. You know, we played record versions.

1593
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes they got a kick out of it. Only a

1594
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 2: couple of times, you know, people weren't so happy. Just

1595
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:30,400
Speaker 2: a few times. I certainly did it. I got my

1596
01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:33,800
Speaker 2: share of tires when I really blew it, though not

1597
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:36,600
Speaker 2: necessarily in those acts, but you know, at certain.

1598
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:38,280
Speaker 1: Times tell me about blowing it.

1599
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 2: Well, one thing that comes to mind is I blew

1600
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,519
Speaker 2: it with mister Anthony Newley, one of my favorites of

1601
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:51,640
Speaker 2: all time. We had a running thing going. This was

1602
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:55,519
Speaker 2: a Letterman eighties from NBC had a running thing going

1603
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 2: for a while with a theme song. We had a

1604
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 2: viewer male theme song. We used to answer viewer male,

1605
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:05,960
Speaker 2: what if there was a theme song? What if we

1606
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 2: could get Henry Mancini to write it, which we did.

1607
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 2: Henry came in conducted and he had written a theme

1608
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 2: song for viewer mail.

1609
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:15,599
Speaker 1: My girlfriend's father.

1610
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:21,599
Speaker 2: I heard. I happen to know this, Okay, give.

1611
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 1: He wrote the theme song for your male keep going.

1612
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:29,640
Speaker 2: Give her my best. I will yes, and then it

1613
01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:33,400
Speaker 2: became a you know, he came in and when Tails

1614
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:36,000
Speaker 2: conducted it, he wrote us more of a thing like,

1615
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 2: you know, the New Heart theme, that kind of style,

1616
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 2: very jaunty. And then we started doing his theme with

1617
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 2: other people, with other celebrities. What if we could get

1618
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:51,640
Speaker 2: Johnny Mathis to sing the Mancinis theme. You know, we

1619
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:53,520
Speaker 2: were doing all of this, but it was just a

1620
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 2: silly viewer male thing. Nonetheless, one week Anthony Knewley was

1621
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 2: going to sing it. It's gonna at Mancini's theme to

1622
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:11,679
Speaker 2: viewer male, view a male. That's what Henry wrote. He said,

1623
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:16,080
Speaker 2: I wanted something like Hallelujah to be view were male.

1624
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:18,960
Speaker 2: So I had Newly. And then often, you know, as

1625
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 2: a writer of special material, as I am, I would

1626
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 2: write a section in for the different artists. So for Newly,

1627
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:30,679
Speaker 2: I wrote in a section the viewer male clown. Because

1628
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:33,519
Speaker 2: he was always singing about the happy clown. He's great

1629
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 2: the viewer mail clown view a male. So that was

1630
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 2: the idea. And Tony, excuse me, newly, Tony newly, if

1631
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 2: I may. That's what the rat pag is to call Tony,

1632
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,200
Speaker 2: and I had a reversal. It was great. He had

1633
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 2: a great sense of humor about it. One of those

1634
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:56,679
Speaker 2: songs I really stole from in one of the lines

1635
01:38:57,120 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 2: viewer male clown. He's only funny, but mistake, he said,

1636
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 2: Oh that's mine, you know which. I appreciate it, but

1637
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:09,800
Speaker 2: I'm so cocky that I didn't write any of it down.

1638
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,040
Speaker 2: I thought I'll just remember it. It's just me and

1639
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:17,920
Speaker 2: him piano, and he sings, and we sing the first section,

1640
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:21,519
Speaker 2: Doo the mail, and it's going great. And then I

1641
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 2: got to modulate into the new slow section the viewer

1642
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:31,120
Speaker 2: maile clown. I modulate wrong. I come out about a

1643
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 2: fifth higher than it's supposed to be. And he his

1644
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:39,840
Speaker 2: ear is so good. He follows me into the new key.

1645
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 2: But now he's up well laugh at the viewer mail.

1646
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,160
Speaker 2: He's way high and I'm just dying, Oh my god,

1647
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 2: what have I done? And then he hits this note

1648
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:54,600
Speaker 2: at the end of view of milk. He hits it.

1649
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 2: It's out of anybody's range. He hits the note. It's brilliant.

1650
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 2: He gets a clause as he goes off. I hear

1651
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 2: this from backstage. Fuck. He's so mad, so mad that

1652
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 2: producer happened to run into him later at the Friars

1653
01:40:11,160 --> 01:40:13,760
Speaker 2: Club said, oh, Paul Fields so terrible about it. And

1654
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:18,599
Speaker 2: he said, oh, Paul feels terrible. But I wrote him,

1655
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:21,360
Speaker 2: you know, the nicest letter I could in England, and

1656
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:25,519
Speaker 2: he a lovely letter, humorous letter. He wrote me back.

1657
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 2: You know I hit a note, he said, I hid

1658
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 2: notes that dogs from miles away. You know, whatever it was,

1659
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 2: Thank god he forgave me.

1660
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:38,559
Speaker 1: Okay, when you were playing with bands, did you ever

1661
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:40,439
Speaker 1: mess it up during the show such he had to

1662
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:40,920
Speaker 1: redo it.

1663
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Well, yes, for soon reason. Yeah, once in a while

1664
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 2: would happened. Not sometimes my mess sure, or somebody would

1665
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:57,799
Speaker 2: mess up. Yeah, we'd always redo it for technical reason,

1666
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 2: you know, if there was a feedback or something. Yeah,

1667
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:02,920
Speaker 2: we'll do it again. We do it right after the show,

1668
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:05,759
Speaker 2: do it one more time sometimes, Okay.

1669
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:08,720
Speaker 1: I became a fan of the show, would record it

1670
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:14,040
Speaker 1: every night and then watch it on the VCR. Sons

1671
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:20,639
Speaker 1: commercials such that I would save certain performances that blew

1672
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:27,120
Speaker 1: my mind. I'm gonna bring up the two performances that

1673
01:41:27,320 --> 01:41:31,519
Speaker 1: I remember most and let me know if you actually

1674
01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 1: remember those. Okakay, Melissa Ethridge, I'm the only one. She

1675
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:41,839
Speaker 1: came out and she was stopping. That was what really

1676
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:44,040
Speaker 1: she She'd had a few albums before, and I certainly

1677
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 1: knew her and had the records. But she came out

1678
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: and just killed. That is that anything that resonates at all?

1679
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:53,800
Speaker 2: I remember it, and I remember you know, she was

1680
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 2: just a great performer and a live performer who, like me,

1681
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:00,640
Speaker 2: had been I don't know where she came up in

1682
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:05,439
Speaker 2: bars or or what, but she could. You know, she

1683
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:07,799
Speaker 2: gave it her all and you know nothing went wrong.

1684
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:10,719
Speaker 1: Okay, then what's the one easy?

1685
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:13,519
Speaker 2: And and she you know, she did kill. And I

1686
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 2: got to play with her a number of other places

1687
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 2: and times of various you know, charity events whatever. She

1688
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:22,960
Speaker 2: always came through, always killed another.

1689
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:27,559
Speaker 1: One's been in the news recently because of her untimely death.

1690
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 1: But shinead O'Connor, did you made me the Thief of

1691
01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 1: your Heart? From the movie In the Name of the Father.

1692
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 1: She was just unbelievable. Any memory of that.

1693
01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 2: Well, I saw a cliff recently in the wake of

1694
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:47,000
Speaker 2: her death. I don't know the title, but she was

1695
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:49,559
Speaker 2: doing the one that goes du du exactly.

1696
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:52,320
Speaker 1: It's the titles called you made Me the Thief of

1697
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:55,040
Speaker 1: Your Right. You know, as I say, it's confusing.

1698
01:42:55,080 --> 01:42:59,200
Speaker 2: Again, you know, smooth she had, you know, sometimes I

1699
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 2: think she could be affectionists. And of course we all

1700
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 2: remember the Saturday Night Live episode and stuff. It just

1701
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:09,599
Speaker 2: went down smoothly. I noticed I'd gotten another I hired

1702
01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:11,960
Speaker 2: an extra guitar player for her, a guy that I knew,

1703
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:13,640
Speaker 2: and do you know she came out and killed it.

1704
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So a couple of your own memorable experiences of

1705
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:24,440
Speaker 1: musical guests that really touched you, either because it's personal

1706
01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:26,840
Speaker 1: or because they were hit it way out of the park.

1707
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 2: Well, James Brown is I always say when he did

1708
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:34,679
Speaker 2: the show, he did it in a number of times

1709
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:37,600
Speaker 2: with the very first time, and I had the original

1710
01:43:37,640 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 2: band and we were all so into James Brown we

1711
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 2: couldn't wait. And he did it very early, one of

1712
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:48,800
Speaker 2: the early guys who came on and did it with us,

1713
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,439
Speaker 2: and I think it was because we were playing his

1714
01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:55,760
Speaker 2: stuff a lot for the ins and out of commercials.

1715
01:43:56,200 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 2: He probably heard us playing something by him because we

1716
01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:01,320
Speaker 2: were playing his stuff all the time, and he might

1717
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 2: have seen it in his Askaf statement too. Anyway, his

1718
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:09,560
Speaker 2: agent called and said, he wants to come on ah

1719
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 2: and you know great. We weren't having musical guests every night.

1720
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 2: It was not a pattern as it became, and they

1721
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 2: didn't you know, they weren't relegated to the very last

1722
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:24,519
Speaker 2: spot after the last commercial. At this point it was

1723
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,480
Speaker 2: it was new to us. We hadn't had many musicians

1724
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 2: at all. We said to him, how what does he

1725
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:32,639
Speaker 2: want to play? He said, what does a man want

1726
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:36,360
Speaker 2: to play with me? Great? You know, very smart? You

1727
01:44:36,400 --> 01:44:41,240
Speaker 2: know what do they know? So Steve said, I got it.

1728
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:44,920
Speaker 2: I want love to do sex Machine with him because

1729
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 2: of that beat. Hiram said, there was a time, because

1730
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,040
Speaker 2: of that guitar party don't don't, don't, don't don't do

1731
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:57,400
Speaker 2: one of the early single line parts. Well, you know

1732
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 2: it just thrilled with all of it, and he said, okay, cool,

1733
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:03,960
Speaker 2: we were going to do those two. There was a

1734
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:09,559
Speaker 2: time and sex Machine. He brought two horn players. That's

1735
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:12,320
Speaker 2: it hit two of his own horn players. And played

1736
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:14,479
Speaker 2: with us four guys. We couldn't none of us could

1737
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:17,879
Speaker 2: believe we were playing with him. But when he started

1738
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:22,439
Speaker 2: singing and dancing, it was just so strong you couldn't

1739
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:25,800
Speaker 2: help but play. We sounded better than we ever thought

1740
01:45:25,880 --> 01:45:33,120
Speaker 2: we would, and we did the second song. We ran

1741
01:45:33,160 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 2: out of time in the rehearsal. We didn't get a

1742
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 2: chance to end. We didn't get a chance to make

1743
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 2: up an ending for the second song. There was a

1744
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:42,919
Speaker 2: time which he was going to demonstrate all the dances,

1745
01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 2: so I didn't know what was going to happen. But

1746
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:48,800
Speaker 2: there we were on the air and he just, you know,

1747
01:45:49,280 --> 01:45:53,519
Speaker 2: he just cut us off. He's no problem. And then

1748
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:58,040
Speaker 2: he heard us doing a third one of his and

1749
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:02,599
Speaker 2: he said, and we all, you know, all of us

1750
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 2: in the band had gotten our first VCRs. At the

1751
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:09,599
Speaker 2: time home VCRs. We used to get together after every

1752
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:13,120
Speaker 2: show and watch that the tape of it. We couldn't

1753
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:16,720
Speaker 2: believe it. And we memorized all the dialogue too, with

1754
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:21,519
Speaker 2: the entry you know, on the panel. And he James

1755
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 2: took over the show at the end after we heard

1756
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:26,680
Speaker 2: us to David Letterman, you have to do it now

1757
01:46:27,880 --> 01:46:33,160
Speaker 2: before you cruise. Can we cruise with I got the feeling,

1758
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:36,720
Speaker 2: and then you hear Steve Jodd whoa his voice like

1759
01:46:37,040 --> 01:46:39,439
Speaker 2: just out of the area he had taken over. Dave said,

1760
01:46:39,479 --> 01:46:41,840
Speaker 2: we can, We'll take a commercial, came back and he

1761
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 2: did a third song. Unrehearsed that show. God never got

1762
01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 2: over it. Still I think one of the greatest, and

1763
01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:55,440
Speaker 2: a terrific performance on him dancing unbelievable, not much rehearsal,

1764
01:46:57,120 --> 01:47:00,599
Speaker 2: camera shot of his feet, you know, iconic, keep going,

1765
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:07,759
Speaker 2: just wonderful. Sly another one, Slim in the family Stone tell.

1766
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:11,080
Speaker 1: Me that story.

1767
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:19,800
Speaker 2: He came in looking great, wearing a track suit, and

1768
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:23,960
Speaker 2: he was wonderful to work with. We rented him a

1769
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 2: clavinet and a wah wah pedal or some kind of

1770
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:29,120
Speaker 2: problem with it. He didn't care. Didn't let him, you know,

1771
01:47:29,160 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 2: and he did two numbers. Again. He was just terrific.

1772
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:37,679
Speaker 2: And then he at the end of it, he bought

1773
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:47,559
Speaker 2: a hundred bucks from me. But this is the most

1774
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:51,680
Speaker 2: amazing part of it. A couple of years later, I

1775
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:56,880
Speaker 2: had been reading in Rolling Stone magazine that Sly was

1776
01:47:56,920 --> 01:48:02,719
Speaker 2: around working with Bobby Womack in Los Angeles, and somehow

1777
01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:06,400
Speaker 2: we Bobby Walmack got booked on Letterman. He came into

1778
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:08,800
Speaker 2: the rehearsal and came after me. First thing he did,

1779
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:12,599
Speaker 2: take his wallet out, give me a hundred bucks. He says. Here,

1780
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 2: he says, you'll never get this from slot. This is

1781
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:17,439
Speaker 2: my money, but I'm giving this to you. So what

1782
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:19,840
Speaker 2: a mind blower that was. That was when I knew

1783
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:23,759
Speaker 2: I was in show business. It was one of the cats.

1784
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:26,519
Speaker 2: Then Bobby Walmack paid me back.

1785
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:29,920
Speaker 1: Leaving me sort of speechless.

1786
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:32,200
Speaker 2: Who has a story like that? I know you can't

1787
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:34,000
Speaker 2: take it. You have.

1788
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:40,360
Speaker 1: Anybody you didn't play with who was alive during you know,

1789
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:41,639
Speaker 1: the Letterman era.

1790
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:49,760
Speaker 2: Well, Sinatra and Elvis obviously I did pretty well though

1791
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:52,479
Speaker 2: you know, I played with Carl Perkins. We got pretty

1792
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:57,439
Speaker 2: close to Elvis and others of course, and as far

1793
01:48:57,479 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 2: as Sinatra, well, I did play with Sammy. Both times

1794
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:05,479
Speaker 2: were amazing lessons for me. Playing with Sammy Davis and

1795
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 2: Tony Bennett I got to play with. So I did

1796
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:10,559
Speaker 2: awfully well.

1797
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:13,880
Speaker 1: Now the show I remember correctly, The Late Night Show

1798
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:19,080
Speaker 1: ended with Bruce Springsteen and did you're the team the booker?

1799
01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:22,559
Speaker 1: Did they try to get Well, it's too late for Elvis,

1800
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:24,120
Speaker 1: but did they try to get Sinatra.

1801
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:30,680
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer. Not sure. I'm sure they

1802
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:33,919
Speaker 2: must have, but I just, you know, I have no information,

1803
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:37,240
Speaker 2: don't know. That's I really was not involved in the booking,

1804
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:42,320
Speaker 2: and I when I tried to be once, it just exploded.

1805
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:45,799
Speaker 2: It's so hard dealing with the agents and pr agents

1806
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:50,840
Speaker 2: and stuff, you know. Ah, so I stayed out of Who.

1807
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Is it that you wanted a book?

1808
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I'll tell the story. It was Paul Carrick.

1809
01:49:57,800 --> 01:49:59,440
Speaker 2: Do you remember that, gentleman.

1810
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:03,400
Speaker 1: I noted, Oh, Kerrick, Yeah, absolutely? How long has this

1811
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:04,280
Speaker 1: been going on?

1812
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:09,559
Speaker 2: Yes? How long? That's right. He had a solo record

1813
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:14,599
Speaker 2: that I just loved. Right, I've forgotten it, and I

1814
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 2: was in my mind and I was thinking, how long now? Anyway,

1815
01:50:21,400 --> 01:50:24,880
Speaker 2: I just you know, the show was it had booked

1816
01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:26,320
Speaker 2: a number of acts in a row that I just

1817
01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:29,000
Speaker 2: didn't get. And I said to myself that Paul Carrack

1818
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:31,920
Speaker 2: song is so great, Let's get him on. And I just,

1819
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:34,519
Speaker 2: you know, as they say, stuck my neck out a

1820
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:37,200
Speaker 2: little bit. Let's get Paul Carrock. Can we not even

1821
01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:42,720
Speaker 2: know the song? Don't shuit it on me, Ma, that's

1822
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 2: the song that he had out of the time, So

1823
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:49,880
Speaker 2: they book him and then the word comes back, but

1824
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,640
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to do that song. He wants to

1825
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:55,519
Speaker 2: do his new song. So I put on a new

1826
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:58,559
Speaker 2: song and I'm no, you know, excuse me, but it's

1827
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:01,559
Speaker 2: just to me. It didn't have that That other song

1828
01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:04,680
Speaker 2: was just so great. But here I am. You know,

1829
01:51:04,760 --> 01:51:08,440
Speaker 2: now I got it and I'm gonna either one. Afterwards,

1830
01:51:08,479 --> 01:51:11,120
Speaker 2: Paul is that's you wanted that guy on, you know,

1831
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:12,439
Speaker 2: because he was going to do a song that I

1832
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:16,120
Speaker 2: didn't want him to do. Somehow he got a bad

1833
01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:18,439
Speaker 2: throat infection. He didn't do the show at all, so

1834
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:21,479
Speaker 2: it was came, came, moved. But that kind of was

1835
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:23,920
Speaker 2: a lesson, stay out of that. We have people that

1836
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:26,680
Speaker 2: do that, they know how to do it. Well.

1837
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. He's put out all these albums of

1838
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:33,640
Speaker 1: covers that no one seems to know about. Check it

1839
01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 1: out because I think you'd find it interesting. It was

1840
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 1: that one album that you know, we got the play

1841
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:41,439
Speaker 1: on MTV was in the eighties. I can't remember the

1842
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: name of that track either. Okay, so what keeps you busy? Now?

1843
01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, I am having recovered from that initial shock of

1844
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:59,080
Speaker 2: not doing the show anymore. I'm just really enjoying myself.

1845
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:03,920
Speaker 2: I do various music. I'm doing sessions again. There aren't

1846
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:07,639
Speaker 2: sessions like they used to be because the computer plays

1847
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:11,960
Speaker 2: all the stuff now. But just did an album with

1848
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:16,000
Speaker 2: a guy named Fred Lipschis, who was the arrangements. Yeah,

1849
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:18,599
Speaker 2: so that was again, you know, kind of a full circle.

1850
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:22,200
Speaker 2: And I did one two that I'm in the middle

1851
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 2: of with Casigi Minuos. I kind of am going back

1852
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:28,800
Speaker 2: to the you know, straight music when I look back

1853
01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:32,599
Speaker 2: at my career and I have more time to do

1854
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 2: so now I'm enjoying my kids, of course, and practicing again,

1855
01:52:38,479 --> 01:52:41,200
Speaker 2: practicing the piano. And I was about to say, when

1856
01:52:41,240 --> 01:52:46,760
Speaker 2: I look back, my favorite stuff is not even you know,

1857
01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:50,200
Speaker 2: getting on TV that was wonderful, of course, but the

1858
01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:53,759
Speaker 2: sessions I got to do. How fast I got going

1859
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:57,120
Speaker 2: as a session player, and I made a record with

1860
01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:00,960
Speaker 2: Burt Backreck in about nineteen seventy six. I can't believe it,

1861
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, It's just one of those things. And that's

1862
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 2: what really I'm the proudest stuff I think.

1863
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:09,880
Speaker 1: And did you play sessions when you were on with

1864
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 1: Letterman or that was just wasn't enough time?

1865
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:14,280
Speaker 2: No, I was. I did some of the but you know,

1866
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:18,400
Speaker 2: it was disappearing, and not only the whole scene disappearing,

1867
01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:21,400
Speaker 2: but also disappearing for me. If you're on TV, people

1868
01:53:21,439 --> 01:53:24,360
Speaker 2: think you're busy. You know, you need to be in

1869
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:26,639
Speaker 2: the scene. But I still do things here and there.

1870
01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:28,720
Speaker 1: And how did you get involved with the Rock and

1871
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:29,880
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame.

1872
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:36,800
Speaker 2: From a session thing? I had done a session that

1873
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:40,439
Speaker 2: involved Almited Urtigan, the founder of Atlantic Records and then

1874
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:41,960
Speaker 2: and one of the founders of the Rock Roll Hall

1875
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:50,479
Speaker 2: of Fame. Uh it was the Honey Drippers with Robert

1876
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:55,559
Speaker 2: plant That was during Letterman or earlier in Letterman run.

1877
01:53:55,640 --> 01:53:58,240
Speaker 2: I just got a call, It's a session Saturday and

1878
01:53:58,320 --> 01:54:01,800
Speaker 2: Sunday Robert plant Of course, you know I'm going to

1879
01:54:01,880 --> 01:54:08,320
Speaker 2: be there, and it was let's see, well, Jeff Beck

1880
01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:11,280
Speaker 2: and Ile Rogers were there as guitars. Wayne Peeswater and

1881
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:15,519
Speaker 2: based the Late Grade and the drummer has moved to

1882
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 2: Los Angeles now name this case. But that was, you know,

1883
01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 2: just a session call. But I got to work for

1884
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:24,599
Speaker 2: Robert Planting. To hear his voice in the in the

1885
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:27,680
Speaker 2: phones was pretty amazing. And I hit it off with

1886
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:31,400
Speaker 2: Almet and he you know, and then he started seeing

1887
01:54:31,439 --> 01:54:35,000
Speaker 2: me on Letterman and he called me for the Rock

1888
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:38,960
Speaker 2: Roll Hall of Fame and the first one was they

1889
01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 2: were afraid to the first one was with Fatz Nomeno

1890
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:44,920
Speaker 2: and everybody, you know, all the greats that were alive,

1891
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:49,200
Speaker 2: Elvis posthumously of course, and they said, well, we can't

1892
01:54:49,240 --> 01:54:52,360
Speaker 2: ask we don't want to ask them to play because

1893
01:54:52,360 --> 01:54:55,520
Speaker 2: we're honoring them. How can we ask them to work?

1894
01:54:55,600 --> 01:54:57,120
Speaker 2: Yet we've got to have, you know, how are we

1895
01:54:57,200 --> 01:55:00,680
Speaker 2: going to finesse some kind of a jam session? And

1896
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:04,440
Speaker 2: Bill Graham was still alive and he was on the committee,

1897
01:55:04,440 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 2: and he said, well, I'll just you know, I'll say,

1898
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:09,320
Speaker 2: let's come up for a group photo and we'll just

1899
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:13,240
Speaker 2: have instruments, amps and guitars and see what and we

1900
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:15,680
Speaker 2: know they're going to play. Well, they took that photo

1901
01:55:15,680 --> 01:55:19,080
Speaker 2: and they went running for the instruments. The greats, they

1902
01:55:19,080 --> 01:55:22,240
Speaker 2: couldn't wait, and the jam was just on. They were

1903
01:55:22,280 --> 01:55:24,840
Speaker 2: calling their own tunes and playing. It was just fantastic.

1904
01:55:26,040 --> 01:55:26,960
Speaker 2: It just erupted.

1905
01:55:27,480 --> 01:55:29,880
Speaker 1: And at this point you still involved or what?

1906
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the first show. So I was involved

1907
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 2: the first time. I mean I was involved really all

1908
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 2: through John Winner's era of it. So almost thirty years

1909
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:44,880
Speaker 2: I think to varying degrees to every year depending on

1910
01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:48,360
Speaker 2: who the inductees were. But that first year was incredible

1911
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:51,520
Speaker 2: and it was totally spontaneous, And when Bill Graham was alive,

1912
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:56,560
Speaker 2: he really politic for that jam. It shouldn't be rehearsed.

1913
01:55:56,560 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 2: Don't try to get a show. It's the only time

1914
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:03,280
Speaker 2: you're going to see music. Absolutely jamming, and so while

1915
01:56:03,320 --> 01:56:06,000
Speaker 2: he was alive, that's the way it was. And that

1916
01:56:06,160 --> 01:56:08,880
Speaker 2: jan Winner, however, also a great friend of mine. He

1917
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:13,040
Speaker 2: wanted more of a rehearsed television show, so that's what

1918
01:56:13,240 --> 01:56:16,400
Speaker 2: it morphed into. But initially it was absolutely a jam.

1919
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:25,080
Speaker 1: One final question, Okay, Al Cooper, you had a legendary

1920
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 1: career with the blues project Blood, Sweat and Tears, Supersession

1921
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:33,280
Speaker 1: of course, had the albums with Sounds of the South

1922
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:38,840
Speaker 1: with Leonard skinnerd etc. He says his only income is

1923
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:43,120
Speaker 1: for performing rights, and that you started to use his

1924
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 1: song with the Cape every Friday night. Yeah, and he

1925
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 1: was saying he got paid and then one night they

1926
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:53,640
Speaker 1: retired the Cape. How did you end up using his

1927
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 1: song and how did you end up retiring it?

1928
01:56:57,080 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 2: One of these things where Dave I was playing it

1929
01:57:01,400 --> 01:57:04,080
Speaker 2: and singing it myself, I love you more than you'll

1930
01:57:04,080 --> 01:57:07,800
Speaker 2: ever know. And I was playing it for a bumper

1931
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:11,839
Speaker 2: or something. And Dave Letterman, who was much more musical

1932
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 2: than anybody would have given him credit for, he heard every

1933
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:18,720
Speaker 2: note that we played all through those years. He said, gee,

1934
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:24,120
Speaker 2: that sounds like a James Brown thing. I should feel

1935
01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:25,920
Speaker 2: like I should come out with a cape or something.

1936
01:57:26,240 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 2: And of course Al had been inspired by It's a

1937
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:31,920
Speaker 2: Man's World when he wrote that. You know, I think

1938
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:34,800
Speaker 2: he would be the first to tell us that, and

1939
01:57:34,920 --> 01:57:36,800
Speaker 2: Dave thought it was a James Brown turned out to

1940
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:40,960
Speaker 2: Al Cooper, So that's why it became one of ol

1941
01:57:41,320 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 2: songs instead of one of James's. But after Dave made

1942
01:57:44,440 --> 01:57:48,800
Speaker 2: that suggestion of cape, it looks like something about a cape.

1943
01:57:49,360 --> 01:57:51,760
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly, but we started doing the cape bit.

1944
01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:55,120
Speaker 2: We just rased it all go down on my knees,

1945
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:58,120
Speaker 2: you come out with the cape, and we did that.

1946
01:57:58,520 --> 01:58:02,840
Speaker 2: Dave put the cape on me and then it just

1947
01:58:02,840 --> 01:58:04,920
Speaker 2: just like that other story I told. It became a

1948
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:09,160
Speaker 2: runner and we started getting celebrities to put the cape

1949
01:58:09,160 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 2: on me, and it came every Friday night and we

1950
01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 2: would actually come back from the commercial for the id spot,

1951
01:58:16,280 --> 01:58:19,080
Speaker 2: I would be doing that cape. Whether it was Heidi

1952
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:23,560
Speaker 2: Klume or President Trump, all these people came out with

1953
01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:28,840
Speaker 2: the cape, and James himself came out and put the

1954
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:31,800
Speaker 2: cape on me. And then you know, two years this

1955
01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:34,360
Speaker 2: went on. Al said he built himself a new bathroom,

1956
01:58:36,640 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 2: only he would put it that way. It had run

1957
01:58:40,360 --> 01:58:43,200
Speaker 2: its course, you know, and we had run out of celebrities,

1958
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:48,760
Speaker 2: my goodness, we had everybody. And so it happened that

1959
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:51,440
Speaker 2: on an episode of American Idol that year, Paul Anka

1960
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:55,920
Speaker 2: saying my way. I couldn't for no reason. So I

1961
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:59,360
Speaker 2: just said, well, let's get Paul Ankle here and with

1962
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:03,720
Speaker 2: new spec lyrics about the cape, retiring the cape, and

1963
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:07,400
Speaker 2: that all came to pass. Paul sang my way about

1964
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:12,520
Speaker 2: the cape, something about well, we had agreed to work

1965
01:59:12,560 --> 01:59:15,839
Speaker 2: with him. He is the master of special lyrics.

1966
01:59:15,880 --> 01:59:19,400
Speaker 1: You know, he wrote special lyrics for my birthday. I mean, God,

1967
01:59:19,480 --> 01:59:22,160
Speaker 1: bless you, my jaw is still dropped.

1968
01:59:23,200 --> 01:59:27,480
Speaker 2: Well, our writers made the mistake of sending him some

1969
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 2: lyrics that they had written. When he came in. He

1970
01:59:31,720 --> 01:59:34,040
Speaker 2: came in by saying, you know, he says, yeah, you guys,

1971
01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:36,520
Speaker 2: thank the lyrics. You saved me. You saved me two

1972
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:39,879
Speaker 2: days work, he says. But I kept one of your jokes,

1973
01:59:41,120 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 2: which was that they had written which was about the

1974
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:47,040
Speaker 2: celebrities putting the cape when every case, in every case

1975
01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 2: they showed their true face except Joan Rivers that he liked.

1976
01:59:54,840 --> 01:59:59,520
Speaker 2: But otherwise you readid everything very funny, and they retired

1977
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:01,560
Speaker 2: the cape and al you know, I'm sorry. I did

1978
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:02,600
Speaker 2: the best I could for you.

1979
02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:05,840
Speaker 1: And on that note, Paul, I think we're going to

1980
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:07,840
Speaker 1: draw it to a close. I want to thank you

1981
02:00:07,960 --> 02:00:11,360
Speaker 1: so much for taking the time to speak to my audience.

1982
02:00:11,400 --> 02:00:15,200
Speaker 1: And I want to remind everybody September thirteenth, your gig

1983
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:16,200
Speaker 1: with Jeff Barret.

1984
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:19,280
Speaker 2: It's going to be a fun night. You know. I'm

1985
02:00:19,320 --> 02:00:23,120
Speaker 2: the world's foremost authority. See you there, Bob, A lot

1986
02:00:23,160 --> 02:00:26,600
Speaker 2: of fun. Say hi to your lovely one.

1987
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:30,480
Speaker 1: Okay, till next time. This is Bob left Stets