1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:23,436 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Do you remember where you were on the morning 2 00:00:23,436 --> 00:00:25,996 Speaker 1: of September eleventh, two thousand and one. I was a 3 00:00:26,076 --> 00:00:30,396 Speaker 1: senior in high school, and I remember we heard the rumors, 4 00:00:30,436 --> 00:00:33,636 Speaker 1: the whispers that an attack had happened. This is author 5 00:00:33,636 --> 00:00:37,316 Speaker 1: and activist Simren Jeet Singh. Like many Americans, he also 6 00:00:37,356 --> 00:00:39,556 Speaker 1: has a vivid memory of how scared he was that 7 00:00:39,676 --> 00:00:43,236 Speaker 1: terrible morning. We ran to my teachers classroom. Is strong 8 00:00:43,316 --> 00:00:46,196 Speaker 1: and while just watched on television, we watched the towers 9 00:00:46,196 --> 00:00:49,436 Speaker 1: come down. But Simmern's fear is about the events unfolding 10 00:00:49,436 --> 00:00:52,396 Speaker 1: in New York, in DC one beyond just the tragic 11 00:00:52,476 --> 00:00:56,516 Speaker 1: terrorist attacks that were unfolding that afternoon. The death threat 12 00:00:56,596 --> 00:00:59,596 Speaker 1: started first by phone, then people driving bys. I mean, 13 00:00:59,636 --> 00:01:03,476 Speaker 1: it was a really intense moment in my life. Simren 14 00:01:03,476 --> 00:01:05,996 Speaker 1: and his family are sick members of a major religion 15 00:01:05,996 --> 00:01:09,316 Speaker 1: that sprang up in India around five centuries ago. Part 16 00:01:09,316 --> 00:01:11,956 Speaker 1: of their faith, sick men grow beards and wear turbans. 17 00:01:12,756 --> 00:01:14,716 Speaker 1: Even though their faith had nothing to do with the 18 00:01:14,756 --> 00:01:17,756 Speaker 1: awful attacks of Osama bin lauded, Simren and his family 19 00:01:17,796 --> 00:01:21,396 Speaker 1: became immediate targets for abuse in their small South Texas town. 20 00:01:21,876 --> 00:01:25,316 Speaker 1: That afternoon, Simren's mom locked their front door. I remember 21 00:01:25,356 --> 00:01:30,236 Speaker 1: that vividly because we had never locked the doors. Followers 22 00:01:30,236 --> 00:01:33,396 Speaker 1: of sickism are no strangers to assault in persecution. The 23 00:01:33,476 --> 00:01:36,716 Speaker 1: threat of oppression has even shaped their faith. But Simren 24 00:01:36,756 --> 00:01:39,876 Speaker 1: was still surprised when his father pondered their situation soon 25 00:01:39,916 --> 00:01:44,316 Speaker 1: after nine to eleven and gave thanks. My dad said 26 00:01:44,356 --> 00:01:46,756 Speaker 1: something to me like, aren't we so fortunate? You know, 27 00:01:46,796 --> 00:01:49,276 Speaker 1: We're so lucky that your neighbors have been coming by 28 00:01:49,356 --> 00:01:52,196 Speaker 1: to give us food, that your teachers and your teammates 29 00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:54,196 Speaker 1: have been checking in to see if you're okay. I mean, 30 00:01:54,236 --> 00:01:56,916 Speaker 1: aren't we so lucky to have all these people around us. 31 00:01:57,756 --> 00:02:00,356 Speaker 1: This story is a pivotal moment in Simren's hip book, 32 00:02:00,356 --> 00:02:03,476 Speaker 1: The Light We Give How Sick Wisdom can Transform Your Life. 33 00:02:04,196 --> 00:02:06,996 Speaker 1: The memoir tries to unpack different strands of Simren's sick 34 00:02:07,036 --> 00:02:09,796 Speaker 1: faith and explores how following these ten can make us 35 00:02:09,796 --> 00:02:12,756 Speaker 1: all feel a little happier. So let's hear more about 36 00:02:12,756 --> 00:02:16,156 Speaker 1: the well being wisdom of sickism on happiness Lessons of 37 00:02:16,156 --> 00:02:23,556 Speaker 1: the Ancients with me, doctor Laurie Santos. We heard the 38 00:02:23,556 --> 00:02:26,156 Speaker 1: story of Simren's family and the abuse they suffered following 39 00:02:26,276 --> 00:02:28,956 Speaker 1: nine to eleven in the last episode. But what I 40 00:02:28,996 --> 00:02:31,556 Speaker 1: wanted to dig deeper into this time was the reaction 41 00:02:31,556 --> 00:02:35,076 Speaker 1: that Simren's father had to this difficult time. If your 42 00:02:35,116 --> 00:02:38,236 Speaker 1: family was under siege, with strangers calling in death threats, 43 00:02:38,356 --> 00:02:41,356 Speaker 1: an abuse being screamed at you from passing cars, would 44 00:02:41,396 --> 00:02:44,636 Speaker 1: you ever think to say, are we so fortunate? And 45 00:02:44,716 --> 00:02:46,756 Speaker 1: I look at him like he's lost his mind? Right? 46 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:49,996 Speaker 1: In what world is there something to feel fortunate about? 47 00:02:50,516 --> 00:02:53,596 Speaker 1: And yet this is what Simmeren's dad thought. His religion 48 00:02:53,716 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 1: valued optimism and gratitude even in the face of negative events, 49 00:02:57,596 --> 00:03:00,756 Speaker 1: and prize the bonds that formed between people of different backgrounds. 50 00:03:01,356 --> 00:03:04,436 Speaker 1: Rather than forgetting all those teachings in such a stressful moment, 51 00:03:04,716 --> 00:03:06,996 Speaker 1: mister Singh kept them at the forefront of his mind. 52 00:03:07,276 --> 00:03:10,236 Speaker 1: He committed to putting those teachings to action day in 53 00:03:10,356 --> 00:03:13,876 Speaker 1: and day out until they were simply second nature. And 54 00:03:13,996 --> 00:03:16,436 Speaker 1: this powerful lesson fits with the advice that we get 55 00:03:16,476 --> 00:03:19,556 Speaker 1: from scientific work on happiness. If we want to weather 56 00:03:19,596 --> 00:03:22,436 Speaker 1: the bad times well, we need to practice good habits 57 00:03:22,476 --> 00:03:25,076 Speaker 1: when things are less stressful. We need to flex our 58 00:03:25,116 --> 00:03:28,156 Speaker 1: happiness muscles regularly to build them up for when we'll 59 00:03:28,196 --> 00:03:30,796 Speaker 1: need them the most. If this sort of practice makes 60 00:03:30,796 --> 00:03:34,236 Speaker 1: perfect metaphors, sounds like something a sports coach might say, Well, 61 00:03:34,316 --> 00:03:36,956 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense because it's an analogy that 62 00:03:36,996 --> 00:03:40,076 Speaker 1: I've borrowed from sports obsessed to Simren. As an avid 63 00:03:40,076 --> 00:03:43,556 Speaker 1: teen soccer and basketball player, Simmeren realized that his father's 64 00:03:43,556 --> 00:03:46,796 Speaker 1: example of putting in daily practice was exactly the thing 65 00:03:46,836 --> 00:03:49,036 Speaker 1: he was learning from his coaches who were helping him 66 00:03:49,036 --> 00:03:52,036 Speaker 1: to shoot hoops and pass soccer balls. Good habits or 67 00:03:52,116 --> 00:03:54,916 Speaker 1: bad habits or lack of habits shape us in all 68 00:03:54,996 --> 00:03:57,676 Speaker 1: kinds of ways, and so sports, to me was probably 69 00:03:57,716 --> 00:03:59,556 Speaker 1: just the best way that I've come to understand this, 70 00:03:59,716 --> 00:04:02,556 Speaker 1: because I would say probably like fifty percent of my 71 00:04:02,636 --> 00:04:07,436 Speaker 1: childhood waste basketball, soccer, or baseball, and the other fifty 72 00:04:07,476 --> 00:04:11,676 Speaker 1: percent was thinking about practice or games. So yeah, when 73 00:04:11,676 --> 00:04:13,676 Speaker 1: I was in school, there was there was actually very 74 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:16,676 Speaker 1: little attention that I was paying to what was actually 75 00:04:16,676 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 1: going on, which I think is probably true for a 76 00:04:18,996 --> 00:04:21,116 Speaker 1: lot of us. But yeah, I mean, it's it's super 77 00:04:21,156 --> 00:04:25,116 Speaker 1: interesting because I think the way that we function as 78 00:04:25,116 --> 00:04:28,436 Speaker 1: a society, at least what my experience was growing up, 79 00:04:28,756 --> 00:04:31,676 Speaker 1: is that in sports we talk about practice as a 80 00:04:31,676 --> 00:04:35,556 Speaker 1: way to prepare ourselves for the big moments in school too, right, 81 00:04:35,636 --> 00:04:39,196 Speaker 1: like homework and test preparation. Whether you actually do it 82 00:04:39,316 --> 00:04:42,196 Speaker 1: or not, is it or find shortcuts is a different story. 83 00:04:42,316 --> 00:04:46,036 Speaker 1: But but like we're trained to understand that if we 84 00:04:46,076 --> 00:04:49,516 Speaker 1: want to succeed academically, like there is there's a process 85 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:52,316 Speaker 1: that you go through. And then for whatever reason, when 86 00:04:52,356 --> 00:04:58,996 Speaker 1: it comes to living life, generally, we tell ourselves like 87 00:04:59,076 --> 00:05:01,236 Speaker 1: all I need to know is the right ideas. All 88 00:05:01,276 --> 00:05:04,076 Speaker 1: I need to know is that it's important to love 89 00:05:04,116 --> 00:05:06,996 Speaker 1: my neighbor. And as long as I know that in 90 00:05:07,036 --> 00:05:10,956 Speaker 1: my brain, then I can feel empathy for anyone. And 91 00:05:11,036 --> 00:05:15,436 Speaker 1: to a degree it works, right, Like on a micro level, 92 00:05:15,676 --> 00:05:19,596 Speaker 1: day to day, you see your neighbor and you say hi, 93 00:05:19,676 --> 00:05:21,236 Speaker 1: and you feel good about yourself and you're like, see, 94 00:05:21,236 --> 00:05:24,356 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a good person, I'm empathetic, I'm compassionate. Whatever. 95 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:26,956 Speaker 1: I watch TV and see this earthquake in Turkey and 96 00:05:26,996 --> 00:05:29,716 Speaker 1: I donated a hundred bucks and like that's that's it, 97 00:05:29,996 --> 00:05:32,556 Speaker 1: and like those are those are good and they're fine. 98 00:05:32,636 --> 00:05:38,396 Speaker 1: But what I found is without real intention behind bringing 99 00:05:38,396 --> 00:05:42,836 Speaker 1: those ideas into practice, like they just are so distant 100 00:05:42,916 --> 00:05:45,636 Speaker 1: from who we actually are and part of the reason 101 00:05:45,716 --> 00:05:48,076 Speaker 1: that this really came to me was in trying to 102 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:51,556 Speaker 1: understand what I was noticing on the front lines of 103 00:05:51,596 --> 00:05:55,116 Speaker 1: hate violence, which is that for certain communities, and I 104 00:05:55,156 --> 00:05:58,596 Speaker 1: worked with many six and we see this particularly among 105 00:05:58,636 --> 00:06:03,876 Speaker 1: faith communities, when when certain communities are targeted and beaten 106 00:06:03,996 --> 00:06:07,956 Speaker 1: and assaulted in these nasty, hateful attacks, they have an 107 00:06:07,996 --> 00:06:11,396 Speaker 1: ability to respond with the best of their values in 108 00:06:11,436 --> 00:06:16,156 Speaker 1: a way that goes beyond human understanding. Right, Like, it's 109 00:06:16,196 --> 00:06:19,476 Speaker 1: so hard to watch these people as they're in the worst, 110 00:06:19,556 --> 00:06:23,276 Speaker 1: most vulnerable positions of their lives because somebody couldn't control 111 00:06:23,316 --> 00:06:26,396 Speaker 1: their own anger and their own hatred. And they'll sit 112 00:06:26,516 --> 00:06:28,956 Speaker 1: up and they'll be like, I don't want them to 113 00:06:28,996 --> 00:06:32,676 Speaker 1: be punished, Like I've seen people who've lost family members, 114 00:06:32,676 --> 00:06:34,516 Speaker 1: and then like, I don't believe in capital manishment. I 115 00:06:34,516 --> 00:06:36,756 Speaker 1: don't want that person to die. I want to forgive them. 116 00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:39,596 Speaker 1: And like, however, this plays out, and it's super complicated, 117 00:06:39,756 --> 00:06:42,116 Speaker 1: and I don't think there's a clear formula for it 118 00:06:42,316 --> 00:06:45,956 Speaker 1: in terms of what people should do. But what I 119 00:06:45,956 --> 00:06:51,196 Speaker 1: can say is I've seen that in their most vulnerable moments, 120 00:06:51,676 --> 00:06:55,196 Speaker 1: when people have lived lives where they've practiced daily what 121 00:06:55,356 --> 00:06:58,436 Speaker 1: their values are like they're ready to show up in 122 00:06:58,476 --> 00:07:02,356 Speaker 1: those difficult moments, and so that that's become the inspiration 123 00:07:02,396 --> 00:07:04,316 Speaker 1: for me, Like what am I doing every day to 124 00:07:04,396 --> 00:07:07,556 Speaker 1: prepare so that when the hardship comes, and it's going 125 00:07:07,596 --> 00:07:10,316 Speaker 1: to come, like life is life, things are hard when 126 00:07:10,356 --> 00:07:13,436 Speaker 1: hardship comes, I'm ready to respond in a way that 127 00:07:13,476 --> 00:07:16,396 Speaker 1: reflects my values and makes me feeling good about what 128 00:07:16,436 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 1: I can control, kind of kind of like my dad 129 00:07:18,236 --> 00:07:20,796 Speaker 1: and in that moment in nine to eleven where you know, 130 00:07:20,796 --> 00:07:22,836 Speaker 1: there's a lot that he couldn't control, the world was 131 00:07:22,996 --> 00:07:26,076 Speaker 1: spinning out of control, and he was able to really 132 00:07:26,076 --> 00:07:29,956 Speaker 1: look into his values and find a way to claim 133 00:07:29,996 --> 00:07:31,836 Speaker 1: his own agency in that moment. And I think that's 134 00:07:31,996 --> 00:07:34,236 Speaker 1: that's really powerful way to live. And I think part 135 00:07:34,276 --> 00:07:36,996 Speaker 1: of it is recognizing the power of the moment. You know, 136 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:39,516 Speaker 1: there are so many faith traditions that really focus on 137 00:07:39,716 --> 00:07:42,116 Speaker 1: the kind of redemption or liberation that will happen to 138 00:07:42,196 --> 00:07:44,756 Speaker 1: you after you die, right, you know, I'll try to 139 00:07:44,796 --> 00:07:46,996 Speaker 1: get into heaven or you know, after life will be 140 00:07:47,036 --> 00:07:49,036 Speaker 1: so great. But I think one of the powerful things 141 00:07:49,076 --> 00:07:52,036 Speaker 1: about Sick philosophy is there's a real emphasis on the 142 00:07:52,196 --> 00:07:54,916 Speaker 1: here and now, right the liberation doesn't happen when you die, 143 00:07:55,036 --> 00:07:57,676 Speaker 1: It's happening kind of as you're living right now. And 144 00:07:57,716 --> 00:08:00,356 Speaker 1: so talk about this idea of mindfulness, something that the 145 00:08:00,356 --> 00:08:02,676 Speaker 1: happiness literature has talked about a lot, and how that 146 00:08:02,716 --> 00:08:04,916 Speaker 1: sort of plays out with kind of making sure you're 147 00:08:04,956 --> 00:08:08,116 Speaker 1: practicing all these good values and these good deeds in 148 00:08:08,156 --> 00:08:11,156 Speaker 1: the here and now. Yeah, yeah, it's it's interesting because 149 00:08:11,276 --> 00:08:14,636 Speaker 1: you know, I study a lot of religions and philosophies. 150 00:08:14,636 --> 00:08:18,676 Speaker 1: I'm a professor of religion, and even as a kid, 151 00:08:18,796 --> 00:08:20,756 Speaker 1: one of the things that never really made sense to 152 00:08:20,756 --> 00:08:24,476 Speaker 1: me was this approach to life that said life is 153 00:08:24,516 --> 00:08:28,836 Speaker 1: an illusion, don't take it seriously. Real happiness comes after 154 00:08:28,916 --> 00:08:32,676 Speaker 1: you die, Like, just set yourself up for that happiness. 155 00:08:33,236 --> 00:08:36,116 Speaker 1: And you know, to each their own, it's it's fine 156 00:08:36,156 --> 00:08:37,596 Speaker 1: if that's if that's the way you want to live. 157 00:08:37,636 --> 00:08:40,076 Speaker 1: But like, what I've learned and understood and what I 158 00:08:40,076 --> 00:08:43,756 Speaker 1: really appreciate is um, life is finite. We don't know 159 00:08:43,796 --> 00:08:45,836 Speaker 1: what we don't know, and what we do know is 160 00:08:45,876 --> 00:08:50,476 Speaker 1: what we experience right now. And here's here's an analogy 161 00:08:50,516 --> 00:08:54,316 Speaker 1: that that might be a little bit basic, but but 162 00:08:54,116 --> 00:08:56,756 Speaker 1: but I think it pertains here. So my wife is 163 00:08:56,796 --> 00:08:59,476 Speaker 1: a physician, and when she was in high school, I 164 00:08:59,476 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 1: didn't know here them, but this is sort of how 165 00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:03,076 Speaker 1: she's described it to me. She was like, all I 166 00:09:03,116 --> 00:09:04,716 Speaker 1: need to do to be happy is to get into 167 00:09:04,756 --> 00:09:06,716 Speaker 1: good college. And then she was like, all I need 168 00:09:06,716 --> 00:09:08,356 Speaker 1: to do to be happy is to get into Gate 169 00:09:08,436 --> 00:09:10,116 Speaker 1: good med school. And then it was all I need 170 00:09:10,116 --> 00:09:12,236 Speaker 1: to do to be happy is get into the right 171 00:09:12,316 --> 00:09:16,156 Speaker 1: and like, you just keep giving yourself these distant goals 172 00:09:16,156 --> 00:09:19,356 Speaker 1: of like I will be happy then if I do 173 00:09:19,356 --> 00:09:21,316 Speaker 1: this now, and it's it ends up being so conditional, 174 00:09:21,476 --> 00:09:24,956 Speaker 1: and like who really looks at people? Who? I mean, 175 00:09:24,956 --> 00:09:26,756 Speaker 1: we see it in movies all the time, we see 176 00:09:26,756 --> 00:09:28,596 Speaker 1: it in literature all the time, right, Like it's not 177 00:09:28,676 --> 00:09:30,716 Speaker 1: like this is a foreign concept to us. We live 178 00:09:30,796 --> 00:09:35,036 Speaker 1: this too. But we know that the greatest way of 179 00:09:35,116 --> 00:09:37,596 Speaker 1: finding happiness is to live in the present moment, right 180 00:09:37,636 --> 00:09:40,476 Speaker 1: Like that's that's what every romcom teaches us, and so 181 00:09:41,076 --> 00:09:43,956 Speaker 1: and so it's it's it's it's in our faces. It's 182 00:09:44,436 --> 00:09:47,596 Speaker 1: it's not a surprise. But it's so hard to live 183 00:09:47,676 --> 00:09:50,316 Speaker 1: that way for a lot of reasons. And and there 184 00:09:50,316 --> 00:09:52,676 Speaker 1: are all sorts of challenges that we face on a 185 00:09:52,756 --> 00:09:56,356 Speaker 1: daily basis. But but I think for the people that 186 00:09:56,396 --> 00:10:00,036 Speaker 1: we know who are the happiest, they're the ones who 187 00:10:00,116 --> 00:10:03,276 Speaker 1: are really engaged and taking seriously that. I mean, those 188 00:10:03,316 --> 00:10:05,076 Speaker 1: are the people that I have most fun being around. 189 00:10:05,236 --> 00:10:07,796 Speaker 1: Are the people who are happy and enjoying life, and like, 190 00:10:07,836 --> 00:10:10,036 Speaker 1: that's who I want to hang out with. And anybody 191 00:10:10,036 --> 00:10:12,836 Speaker 1: who's planning for happiness twenty years from now, I'm like, Okay, 192 00:10:12,996 --> 00:10:15,716 Speaker 1: hang out with me in twenty years. You'll be more 193 00:10:15,796 --> 00:10:19,836 Speaker 1: fun then. And part of making sure that you're doing 194 00:10:19,876 --> 00:10:21,396 Speaker 1: the best that you can do for yourself in the 195 00:10:21,476 --> 00:10:26,076 Speaker 1: moment is really like taking a good heart and oftentimes 196 00:10:26,076 --> 00:10:29,316 Speaker 1: courageous look at yourself and noticing when you're straying from 197 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:32,116 Speaker 1: that path. Right. I think you sort of this term 198 00:10:32,156 --> 00:10:34,956 Speaker 1: the Hohokam, like this idea of acceptance even when you're 199 00:10:35,036 --> 00:10:37,076 Speaker 1: kind of off track. And this was something that I 200 00:10:37,116 --> 00:10:39,356 Speaker 1: really admired that you talked about doing in the book, 201 00:10:39,596 --> 00:10:42,476 Speaker 1: again not necessarily through your spiritual practices, but just in 202 00:10:42,556 --> 00:10:44,916 Speaker 1: terms of your priorities and like taking a good, hard 203 00:10:44,916 --> 00:10:46,716 Speaker 1: look at that and so you know, talk about how 204 00:10:46,716 --> 00:10:48,636 Speaker 1: you did that in terms of paying attention to whether 205 00:10:48,676 --> 00:10:51,876 Speaker 1: you were really prioritizing the things that you loved in life. Yeah, 206 00:10:51,876 --> 00:10:53,596 Speaker 1: you know one of the things. As you're saying this, 207 00:10:54,276 --> 00:10:56,596 Speaker 1: somebody asked me recently, like, when you write about your 208 00:10:56,596 --> 00:11:00,916 Speaker 1: own life memoir style, how do you choose what's write about? 209 00:11:00,956 --> 00:11:02,956 Speaker 1: And I was like, I hadn't thought about that, Like 210 00:11:03,236 --> 00:11:06,116 Speaker 1: what are the moments? And I realized I just reflected 211 00:11:06,236 --> 00:11:08,996 Speaker 1: on where I messed up the worst. I was like, 212 00:11:09,156 --> 00:11:12,796 Speaker 1: let me just tell everybody about these moments in my life. 213 00:11:12,916 --> 00:11:18,876 Speaker 1: And so this is one of them where this experience 214 00:11:18,916 --> 00:11:20,916 Speaker 1: that I had, and I think all of us lived 215 00:11:20,956 --> 00:11:24,676 Speaker 1: this way. In my head, I would describe my priorities 216 00:11:24,756 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 1: as being, you know, family first always, and I had 217 00:11:27,596 --> 00:11:29,316 Speaker 1: these young kids, and I would say that that's the 218 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:32,356 Speaker 1: most important thing to me. And I would say, you know, 219 00:11:32,396 --> 00:11:37,356 Speaker 1: my own personal happiness, spiritual practice and the like. Last 220 00:11:37,396 --> 00:11:41,196 Speaker 1: among that is work. And I think that's really reflective 221 00:11:41,356 --> 00:11:45,676 Speaker 1: of how I see the world and where priorities should be. 222 00:11:46,036 --> 00:11:49,076 Speaker 1: And I wasn't sure exactly how to how to check 223 00:11:49,116 --> 00:11:50,676 Speaker 1: if that's I mean. It felt to me like I 224 00:11:50,676 --> 00:11:53,876 Speaker 1: was off balance and I wasn't quite I wasn't quite 225 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:55,756 Speaker 1: where I where I thought I was, and things weren't 226 00:11:55,756 --> 00:11:58,556 Speaker 1: really lining up. And so I had this exercise where 227 00:11:58,596 --> 00:12:03,916 Speaker 1: I said, okay for today, Imagine that an alien comes 228 00:12:03,956 --> 00:12:07,436 Speaker 1: from outer space and is just watching me and observing me, 229 00:12:07,476 --> 00:12:09,756 Speaker 1: and based on those observations, they're going to see how 230 00:12:09,796 --> 00:12:11,596 Speaker 1: I spend my time, and based on how I spend 231 00:12:11,596 --> 00:12:13,636 Speaker 1: my time, they're going to tell me what my priorities are. 232 00:12:13,836 --> 00:12:16,596 Speaker 1: And so I go through this exercise and what it 233 00:12:16,716 --> 00:12:20,316 Speaker 1: enabled for me was almost a third person distance, right, 234 00:12:20,356 --> 00:12:22,916 Speaker 1: Like I'm observing myself going through through the day, and 235 00:12:22,956 --> 00:12:24,596 Speaker 1: as I'm going through it, I'm like, oh my god, 236 00:12:24,756 --> 00:12:27,036 Speaker 1: Like I'm sitting here with my kids getting them ready 237 00:12:27,076 --> 00:12:30,116 Speaker 1: for school. But even when I'm sitting with them, I'm 238 00:12:30,156 --> 00:12:33,036 Speaker 1: so distracted by what I need to do for work 239 00:12:33,716 --> 00:12:37,796 Speaker 1: that I'm not I'm not even actually here. And for me, 240 00:12:37,876 --> 00:12:39,916 Speaker 1: like I could tell myself the story every day that 241 00:12:39,996 --> 00:12:42,796 Speaker 1: like I'm such a great dad. I'm you know, getting 242 00:12:42,796 --> 00:12:45,316 Speaker 1: my kids ready for school, I'm doing their hair whatever. 243 00:12:45,756 --> 00:12:47,876 Speaker 1: But really, if somebody else is watching me, they're like, 244 00:12:48,236 --> 00:12:50,636 Speaker 1: you're half present. And I go through this process like 245 00:12:50,716 --> 00:12:54,236 Speaker 1: the entire day of reflecting on both what I'm doing 246 00:12:54,996 --> 00:12:58,196 Speaker 1: with my time, like what am I prioritizing and actuality, 247 00:12:58,436 --> 00:13:01,196 Speaker 1: and also what my headspace is when I'm there, and 248 00:13:01,676 --> 00:13:06,716 Speaker 1: that that exercise was really illuminating for me in understanding 249 00:13:07,116 --> 00:13:08,916 Speaker 1: that I was I was very much off base in 250 00:13:09,236 --> 00:13:13,156 Speaker 1: terms of what my actual priorities were and how I 251 00:13:13,236 --> 00:13:16,196 Speaker 1: was living my life. And it revealed to me a 252 00:13:16,316 --> 00:13:19,436 Speaker 1: source of my own unhappiness, right, Like I wasn't actually 253 00:13:19,436 --> 00:13:21,516 Speaker 1: doing the things that I cared about, and the things 254 00:13:21,556 --> 00:13:23,836 Speaker 1: that I cared about I was like half doing. And 255 00:13:23,916 --> 00:13:26,876 Speaker 1: so it was just a nice way to recalibrate not 256 00:13:26,996 --> 00:13:28,956 Speaker 1: just how I spent my time, but but where I 257 00:13:28,996 --> 00:13:31,396 Speaker 1: spent my time. This also seems to be something that's 258 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:34,636 Speaker 1: consistent with at least some sick philosophy. I know you 259 00:13:34,676 --> 00:13:36,956 Speaker 1: mentioned in the book that Grew John talks about this 260 00:13:36,996 --> 00:13:39,436 Speaker 1: idea of setting fire to any practices that take you 261 00:13:39,596 --> 00:13:42,836 Speaker 1: away from love. And I love this specific phrasing because 262 00:13:42,876 --> 00:13:44,516 Speaker 1: it's like you got to set fire to it, right, 263 00:13:44,516 --> 00:13:46,396 Speaker 1: This is a hard task that you really need to 264 00:13:46,476 --> 00:13:48,476 Speaker 1: kind of detonate what's going on in your life if 265 00:13:48,476 --> 00:13:51,356 Speaker 1: it's not working, but if it's taking away from love, 266 00:13:51,396 --> 00:13:53,516 Speaker 1: it's sort of worth doing that hard work to some 267 00:13:53,636 --> 00:13:56,156 Speaker 1: interesting extent. No, I love it. It's it's such a Again. 268 00:13:56,196 --> 00:13:59,556 Speaker 1: I think I think some of these ideas. They're so obvious, 269 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:02,716 Speaker 1: Like it's not like we haven't heard that concept before, right, Like, 270 00:14:03,076 --> 00:14:05,196 Speaker 1: do what matters to you, do what takes you towards 271 00:14:05,196 --> 00:14:07,276 Speaker 1: your goals, Like, I mean, we hear this since childhood, 272 00:14:07,276 --> 00:14:10,596 Speaker 1: but the reminders and having them package indifferent way. I mean, 273 00:14:10,796 --> 00:14:14,436 Speaker 1: the original Punjabi for Gurugen's line is ja lo scd 274 00:14:14,996 --> 00:14:18,396 Speaker 1: jiti metada vis today And he's talking like you can 275 00:14:18,436 --> 00:14:21,916 Speaker 1: translate it as rituals right in a in superstitions, and 276 00:14:22,196 --> 00:14:25,236 Speaker 1: you could make it very specific to a critique of 277 00:14:25,756 --> 00:14:28,836 Speaker 1: religious practice. But my read on it is it's actually 278 00:14:28,916 --> 00:14:31,876 Speaker 1: applicable to all of us in all aspects of life, 279 00:14:31,956 --> 00:14:35,516 Speaker 1: right like, just burn the things that are taking you 280 00:14:35,556 --> 00:14:38,236 Speaker 1: away from your goal. And for me as someone as 281 00:14:38,236 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: I'm reflecting on that story, it was actually a really instructive, 282 00:14:42,236 --> 00:14:45,436 Speaker 1: practical mechanism for dealing. I mean, you know, I could 283 00:14:45,476 --> 00:14:49,156 Speaker 1: sit here and say my priorities are misaligned and I'm 284 00:14:49,196 --> 00:14:52,636 Speaker 1: going to change them. That's so hard to actually do, right, Like, 285 00:14:53,116 --> 00:14:56,916 Speaker 1: there's actual psychological impact, right Like, Okay, So one of 286 00:14:56,956 --> 00:15:00,636 Speaker 1: the examples specifically is that at the time that I 287 00:15:00,676 --> 00:15:04,396 Speaker 1: went through this reflection, so much of my headspace was 288 00:15:04,436 --> 00:15:07,556 Speaker 1: tied up with social media, Twitter in particular, so I 289 00:15:07,556 --> 00:15:10,636 Speaker 1: would be like doing my kid's hair and thinking of, like, 290 00:15:10,676 --> 00:15:12,556 Speaker 1: what's the cool tweet that I'm going to put out today? 291 00:15:12,556 --> 00:15:14,996 Speaker 1: And it sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud, 292 00:15:15,036 --> 00:15:17,636 Speaker 1: like it's I'm definitely I was gonna say, I'm a 293 00:15:17,636 --> 00:15:20,516 Speaker 1: little ebarrassed. I'm a lot embarrassed to say that. But like, 294 00:15:20,996 --> 00:15:23,356 Speaker 1: you get addicted to these things, and there are all 295 00:15:23,436 --> 00:15:26,236 Speaker 1: kinds of addictions in life, and it's not so easy 296 00:15:26,316 --> 00:15:29,436 Speaker 1: to just say, Okay, starting from today, I'm not going 297 00:15:29,516 --> 00:15:33,236 Speaker 1: to do this thing. Like it actually takes real effort 298 00:15:33,396 --> 00:15:36,796 Speaker 1: to get there. And for me, this teaching jo lo 299 00:15:37,036 --> 00:15:39,796 Speaker 1: sd like burn that thing. For me, that meant just 300 00:15:39,836 --> 00:15:41,676 Speaker 1: top off social media for a few months, and like 301 00:15:42,436 --> 00:15:45,036 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean, you know, you have to make some 302 00:15:45,516 --> 00:15:48,196 Speaker 1: like huge commitment or radical change in your life, but 303 00:15:48,276 --> 00:15:50,196 Speaker 1: just like get away from that thing and you can 304 00:15:50,236 --> 00:15:52,116 Speaker 1: come back to it later. So anyway, it's it's it's 305 00:15:53,156 --> 00:15:56,276 Speaker 1: it's a really powerful teaching that I come back to, 306 00:15:56,436 --> 00:15:59,036 Speaker 1: especially in moments where I find it difficult to step 307 00:15:59,076 --> 00:16:01,556 Speaker 1: away from the things that I that I'm actually really 308 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:05,036 Speaker 1: attached to. Auditing what we actually spend our time doing 309 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:07,876 Speaker 1: and honestly comparing that to our aspirations can be a 310 00:16:07,916 --> 00:16:11,276 Speaker 1: sabring experience. If you've listened to the Happiness Lab before, 311 00:16:11,636 --> 00:16:13,996 Speaker 1: you've probably heard that I often struggle to match my 312 00:16:14,036 --> 00:16:16,876 Speaker 1: behavior with what I know should be my priorities. I 313 00:16:16,996 --> 00:16:19,716 Speaker 1: far too often choose tasks that satisfy my it's to 314 00:16:19,756 --> 00:16:22,676 Speaker 1: seem busy and productive instead of simply having fun with 315 00:16:22,716 --> 00:16:26,316 Speaker 1: my loved ones. But there's another mismatch between intention and 316 00:16:26,356 --> 00:16:29,036 Speaker 1: reality that trips a lot of us up. And that's 317 00:16:29,076 --> 00:16:31,236 Speaker 1: the gulf between knowing that we should do nice stuff 318 00:16:31,236 --> 00:16:33,716 Speaker 1: for the people around us and the temptation to just 319 00:16:33,876 --> 00:16:37,596 Speaker 1: concentrate on pleasing ourselves. After the break, we'll look at 320 00:16:37,596 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 1: how Simren's parents tackle that problem by taking away his 321 00:16:41,836 --> 00:16:45,716 Speaker 1: birthday presents. The Happiness Lab will be back in a moment. 322 00:16:52,996 --> 00:16:55,676 Speaker 1: There are so many arresting moments in Simren Jeet Singh's 323 00:16:55,716 --> 00:16:58,516 Speaker 1: book The Light We Give How Sick Wisdom Can Transform 324 00:16:58,556 --> 00:17:02,556 Speaker 1: Your Life. The memoir features powerful quotes from sick gurus, 325 00:17:02,916 --> 00:17:06,916 Speaker 1: difficult encounters with intolerance and outright hatred, and brutally honest 326 00:17:06,916 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 1: anecdotes about Simron's own triumphs and failures. But there was 327 00:17:10,636 --> 00:17:12,956 Speaker 1: one image that wouldn't leave my mind when I first 328 00:17:12,956 --> 00:17:15,916 Speaker 1: read the book. It was the story of young birthday 329 00:17:15,956 --> 00:17:19,236 Speaker 1: boy Simmeren being taught a radical lesson about the value 330 00:17:19,316 --> 00:17:22,436 Speaker 1: of sharing with others. The practice in our household growing 331 00:17:22,476 --> 00:17:24,756 Speaker 1: up was you don't keep all the birthday presents you get, 332 00:17:24,796 --> 00:17:26,596 Speaker 1: so you have you have the big party, like that's fun. 333 00:17:26,716 --> 00:17:28,436 Speaker 1: Everyone shows up and it was great, and we do 334 00:17:28,476 --> 00:17:31,076 Speaker 1: it in our backyard and I always look forward to it. 335 00:17:31,156 --> 00:17:33,076 Speaker 1: And then and then the next day you go through 336 00:17:33,076 --> 00:17:36,596 Speaker 1: the birthday presence and you keep one sometimes two, and 337 00:17:36,636 --> 00:17:39,476 Speaker 1: the rest are for donation. And so it was I mean, 338 00:17:39,596 --> 00:17:43,236 Speaker 1: it was painful as a kid, But but the practice 339 00:17:43,316 --> 00:17:46,476 Speaker 1: that that engendered for us was, you know, your birthday 340 00:17:46,516 --> 00:17:48,596 Speaker 1: is not just about you, Like this is an opportunity 341 00:17:48,596 --> 00:17:50,876 Speaker 1: to think about others as well. And I mean, I'll say, 342 00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:53,996 Speaker 1: my younger daughter's birthday was just two days ago, and 343 00:17:54,076 --> 00:17:56,196 Speaker 1: my wife and I've developed our own practice around this. 344 00:17:56,276 --> 00:17:58,516 Speaker 1: She gets to keep her presence because I don't have 345 00:17:58,556 --> 00:18:02,556 Speaker 1: the heart to take them away. But one of the 346 00:18:02,596 --> 00:18:06,196 Speaker 1: things we've developed with her is on her birthday, we 347 00:18:06,316 --> 00:18:09,116 Speaker 1: give her a list of charities that we developed throughout 348 00:18:09,196 --> 00:18:11,076 Speaker 1: the year, and she gets to pick which charity she 349 00:18:11,156 --> 00:18:13,876 Speaker 1: wants to give amounts of dollars too that we assigned 350 00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:16,796 Speaker 1: to her, And what that creates is a similar kind 351 00:18:16,796 --> 00:18:21,036 Speaker 1: of dynamic, right Like you even on days that where 352 00:18:21,076 --> 00:18:23,876 Speaker 1: culturally you're told the day is all about you, Like 353 00:18:23,956 --> 00:18:26,036 Speaker 1: even on those days where we're not doing this this 354 00:18:26,116 --> 00:18:29,116 Speaker 1: approach of like self centeredness, where we're going to think 355 00:18:29,116 --> 00:18:32,836 Speaker 1: about others as well and we're going to give. And ultimately, 356 00:18:32,956 --> 00:18:36,516 Speaker 1: like you know, people hearing this might think that this 357 00:18:36,636 --> 00:18:40,996 Speaker 1: is about charity or about I don't know, fe feeling 358 00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:44,676 Speaker 1: good about yourself, which I mean in a way yes, 359 00:18:45,116 --> 00:18:48,876 Speaker 1: And ultimately it's about happiness, right, Like what do I 360 00:18:48,916 --> 00:18:51,036 Speaker 1: want for my kids? I want them to be happy. 361 00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:55,196 Speaker 1: And my experience and what I've learned is generosity is 362 00:18:55,196 --> 00:18:58,356 Speaker 1: a real driver of happiness. And so I want my 363 00:18:58,436 --> 00:19:01,676 Speaker 1: kids to learn and really feel what generosity is like 364 00:19:01,756 --> 00:19:04,316 Speaker 1: in their daily lives, so it becomes something that they 365 00:19:04,356 --> 00:19:06,636 Speaker 1: carry with them forever. And this is something we talk 366 00:19:06,676 --> 00:19:08,916 Speaker 1: about a ton on this podcast. Right, there's so much 367 00:19:09,116 --> 00:19:11,556 Speaker 1: evidence that serving other people's happiness is a way to 368 00:19:11,596 --> 00:19:13,916 Speaker 1: serve our own happiness, Like the best way to spend 369 00:19:13,996 --> 00:19:17,076 Speaker 1: money to feel good yourself, to experience happiness yourself is 370 00:19:17,116 --> 00:19:20,156 Speaker 1: suspend on other people. It's just we kind of don't 371 00:19:20,196 --> 00:19:22,036 Speaker 1: realize that. And I think this is the problem with 372 00:19:22,116 --> 00:19:24,756 Speaker 1: serving other people, as we think it's a chore, but 373 00:19:24,836 --> 00:19:27,916 Speaker 1: it can be a path to feeling good ourselves, even 374 00:19:27,956 --> 00:19:32,316 Speaker 1: when serving other people who you might not necessarily want 375 00:19:32,316 --> 00:19:34,716 Speaker 1: to serve or who might not react well to your service. 376 00:19:34,796 --> 00:19:36,436 Speaker 1: And here's where I wanted you to tell the story 377 00:19:36,436 --> 00:19:39,436 Speaker 1: of the woman that you helped on the street, because 378 00:19:39,756 --> 00:19:41,956 Speaker 1: not all of our attempts to serve others go well. 379 00:19:42,036 --> 00:19:44,956 Speaker 1: Sometimes they just reinforce, you know, some of the discrimination 380 00:19:45,076 --> 00:19:48,196 Speaker 1: that you know many marginalized groups are facing. Yeah, yeah, 381 00:19:48,316 --> 00:19:49,996 Speaker 1: this is this is another one of those that's I mean, 382 00:19:50,516 --> 00:19:53,956 Speaker 1: racism is so funny in a lot of ways. I mean, 383 00:19:53,956 --> 00:19:56,276 Speaker 1: if you if you're willing to look at it that way, 384 00:19:56,796 --> 00:20:00,076 Speaker 1: it's just so ridiculous. So this this moment with this 385 00:20:00,116 --> 00:20:02,516 Speaker 1: woman on the street, she was older, We're living in 386 00:20:02,556 --> 00:20:05,356 Speaker 1: New York City. She fell in the middle of the 387 00:20:05,396 --> 00:20:08,516 Speaker 1: crosswalk as she was crossing so so on a street, busy, 388 00:20:08,636 --> 00:20:12,956 Speaker 1: busy Manhattan Upper East Side, and she's laying there and 389 00:20:12,996 --> 00:20:15,516 Speaker 1: she can't get up, and I just run over and 390 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:17,156 Speaker 1: put on my hand to help her up, right, Like, no, 391 00:20:17,236 --> 00:20:19,796 Speaker 1: no big deal, like anything anyone would do. And so 392 00:20:19,836 --> 00:20:22,276 Speaker 1: she reaches up to grab my hand and then she 393 00:20:22,356 --> 00:20:25,596 Speaker 1: looks up and she sees my face and she immediately 394 00:20:25,676 --> 00:20:29,196 Speaker 1: jerks her hand back and she's like she just shouted. 395 00:20:29,276 --> 00:20:31,276 Speaker 1: I mean, it was so weird. She goes go back 396 00:20:31,316 --> 00:20:33,396 Speaker 1: to where you came from. And I'm, I mean, I've 397 00:20:33,396 --> 00:20:36,716 Speaker 1: dealt with all kinds of situations like this before, but 398 00:20:36,796 --> 00:20:41,436 Speaker 1: actually nothing nothing like this where the person who's being 399 00:20:42,476 --> 00:20:46,316 Speaker 1: racist towards me actively needs help and they're in a 400 00:20:46,436 --> 00:20:49,436 Speaker 1: dangerous situation. I mean, it's it's New York. Cabs aren't 401 00:20:49,476 --> 00:20:51,676 Speaker 1: going to start going to stop for her, and so 402 00:20:51,796 --> 00:20:54,116 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not quite sure what to do. And 403 00:20:54,236 --> 00:20:56,876 Speaker 1: in a way, right, this is the story of racism 404 00:20:56,876 --> 00:20:59,836 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, right, and people would rather people rather 405 00:21:00,076 --> 00:21:03,716 Speaker 1: be hurt than to take help from from others who 406 00:21:03,796 --> 00:21:06,836 Speaker 1: they who they don't like for whatever reason. But I'm, 407 00:21:06,876 --> 00:21:08,756 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sort of stuck in this in the 408 00:21:08,796 --> 00:21:11,236 Speaker 1: situation and unsure of what to do, and we don't 409 00:21:11,276 --> 00:21:13,956 Speaker 1: have that much time, and in my head I'm thinking 410 00:21:14,476 --> 00:21:17,316 Speaker 1: she needs help. I'm also thinking she doesn't want to 411 00:21:17,316 --> 00:21:20,116 Speaker 1: help from me. And a really natural reaction, and I 412 00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:23,196 Speaker 1: acknowledge this would be to just walk away and be 413 00:21:23,236 --> 00:21:25,996 Speaker 1: like whatever you you hate me, like, I don't care 414 00:21:26,036 --> 00:21:28,076 Speaker 1: what happens to you. But I think, I think the 415 00:21:28,116 --> 00:21:31,876 Speaker 1: practice of service as I developed it over the years 416 00:21:32,116 --> 00:21:34,956 Speaker 1: had helped me understand that actually service is not about 417 00:21:35,036 --> 00:21:38,316 Speaker 1: yourself and what you need to feel good. It's about 418 00:21:38,436 --> 00:21:40,996 Speaker 1: other people and showing up for them. And so the 419 00:21:41,356 --> 00:21:44,756 Speaker 1: the the immediate thought in my head was help this 420 00:21:44,876 --> 00:21:48,116 Speaker 1: person in a way that is comfortable for them, in 421 00:21:48,156 --> 00:21:50,356 Speaker 1: a way that meets the urgency of the moment, but 422 00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:53,436 Speaker 1: without making it about myself. So I mean, the quick 423 00:21:53,516 --> 00:21:56,196 Speaker 1: response then is get other people over who she's willing 424 00:21:56,236 --> 00:21:59,316 Speaker 1: to take help from um and bring her to safety 425 00:21:59,836 --> 00:22:01,996 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, It's it's a really simple story. 426 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:04,916 Speaker 1: It happened very quickly. It's probably what a lot of 427 00:22:04,996 --> 00:22:09,436 Speaker 1: us would do in situations like this, right, But some 428 00:22:09,476 --> 00:22:12,636 Speaker 1: of the particularities of the story that made it challenging 429 00:22:12,676 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 1: for me helps me understand what it would look like 430 00:22:16,036 --> 00:22:18,476 Speaker 1: for us to show up for one another in moments 431 00:22:18,476 --> 00:22:22,516 Speaker 1: of need in ways that aren't necessarily self centered and 432 00:22:22,516 --> 00:22:26,596 Speaker 1: could really apply generally to social progress. The reason I 433 00:22:26,636 --> 00:22:28,996 Speaker 1: find this story so amazing is it's not just kind 434 00:22:29,036 --> 00:22:31,276 Speaker 1: of not being so self centered. You're helping a person, 435 00:22:31,316 --> 00:22:34,196 Speaker 1: but you're really doubling down on humanity during a time 436 00:22:34,236 --> 00:22:38,276 Speaker 1: when you're experiencing like really awful discrimination yourself. And I 437 00:22:38,276 --> 00:22:40,356 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, this is kind of really getting 438 00:22:40,356 --> 00:22:43,236 Speaker 1: back to this idea of Ekoknar, right, like where it's like, 439 00:22:43,316 --> 00:22:45,396 Speaker 1: these are the moments when you have to remember this 440 00:22:45,516 --> 00:22:48,836 Speaker 1: radical connectedness. But if you can, then you can use 441 00:22:48,876 --> 00:22:52,316 Speaker 1: these moments not just to be these awful moments of racism, 442 00:22:52,476 --> 00:22:55,596 Speaker 1: but you can really educate people about your heritage and 443 00:22:55,636 --> 00:22:57,916 Speaker 1: about what you're about in these kind of awful moments. 444 00:22:58,116 --> 00:22:59,796 Speaker 1: And I love the book because in the book you 445 00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:03,476 Speaker 1: talk about so many cases where you've done that so elegantly. 446 00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:06,436 Speaker 1: My other favorite story in the book was when you 447 00:23:06,796 --> 00:23:09,356 Speaker 1: experience yet another racist incident in New York, this time 448 00:23:09,396 --> 00:23:12,276 Speaker 1: involving some teen boys, but you were actually able to 449 00:23:12,276 --> 00:23:14,156 Speaker 1: teach them and so tell me a little bit about 450 00:23:14,156 --> 00:23:16,876 Speaker 1: this story. Yeah, yeah, thank you. I mean, one of 451 00:23:16,876 --> 00:23:18,396 Speaker 1: the things I try to do in the book is 452 00:23:18,796 --> 00:23:22,356 Speaker 1: just share with people what it's like to walk around 453 00:23:22,356 --> 00:23:24,356 Speaker 1: in my shoes and in my skin every day, but 454 00:23:24,436 --> 00:23:26,676 Speaker 1: in a way that you know, I want to be 455 00:23:27,316 --> 00:23:31,076 Speaker 1: honest about my experience and not overstate. I mean part 456 00:23:31,116 --> 00:23:33,516 Speaker 1: of the way that I experience, as you can probably 457 00:23:33,516 --> 00:23:36,076 Speaker 1: tell from my tone and tenor is you know, these 458 00:23:36,236 --> 00:23:38,756 Speaker 1: these moments are hard, but they're not the worst moments 459 00:23:38,756 --> 00:23:40,716 Speaker 1: in my life. They're not the worst things in the world. 460 00:23:40,796 --> 00:23:43,156 Speaker 1: I can I can manage them. I can I can 461 00:23:43,156 --> 00:23:46,996 Speaker 1: find even happiness within them. So it's it's fine. And 462 00:23:47,316 --> 00:23:49,236 Speaker 1: I think that's that's an important thing for me to 463 00:23:49,236 --> 00:23:53,396 Speaker 1: acknowledge too. And in this moment with these kids when 464 00:23:53,396 --> 00:23:56,836 Speaker 1: I'm running also in New York City, happens actually just 465 00:23:56,916 --> 00:24:00,556 Speaker 1: after I start a practice of taking ten seconds every 466 00:24:00,596 --> 00:24:03,556 Speaker 1: day to see the humanity in strangers that I see 467 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:05,476 Speaker 1: on the street. Part of part of the goal there 468 00:24:05,836 --> 00:24:09,916 Speaker 1: was to move beyond this feeling of strangeness and to 469 00:24:09,996 --> 00:24:12,916 Speaker 1: develop a sense of familiarity with with people who I 470 00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:16,156 Speaker 1: didn't know. And so I've started this practice, and pretty 471 00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:19,916 Speaker 1: soon after I'm running on the West Side Highway in 472 00:24:19,956 --> 00:24:23,556 Speaker 1: New York and I hear this this guy shouting at me. 473 00:24:23,916 --> 00:24:26,396 Speaker 1: He's calling me Osama, and he has a couple of 474 00:24:26,476 --> 00:24:32,476 Speaker 1: additional descriptive, colorful words coming with it, and I'm so annoyed. 475 00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:34,756 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to enjoy my run. It's a beautiful 476 00:24:34,836 --> 00:24:38,196 Speaker 1: day and this guy's ruining it. And so I keep 477 00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:41,556 Speaker 1: running at first, and as I run by, I see 478 00:24:41,596 --> 00:24:44,476 Speaker 1: him and he's probably eighteen twenty years old. And as 479 00:24:44,516 --> 00:24:47,316 Speaker 1: I pass by, I had no intention of, you know, 480 00:24:47,396 --> 00:24:50,956 Speaker 1: saying anything or stopping or anything. But as I pass by, 481 00:24:51,076 --> 00:24:54,556 Speaker 1: this practice kicks into my head and I look at him, like, 482 00:24:54,556 --> 00:24:57,356 Speaker 1: oh my god, he is just like one of my students, 483 00:24:58,436 --> 00:25:02,636 Speaker 1: same age, right, same same background, all the things right, Like, 484 00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:06,516 Speaker 1: it's so interesting for me to observe him in this way, 485 00:25:06,916 --> 00:25:09,676 Speaker 1: in this moment, and I decided to stop and to 486 00:25:09,716 --> 00:25:11,596 Speaker 1: see him and treat him as one of my students. 487 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:13,476 Speaker 1: And so I go over to him and we end 488 00:25:13,596 --> 00:25:17,556 Speaker 1: up having a really brief conversation. He must have been terrified. 489 00:25:17,596 --> 00:25:21,516 Speaker 1: He must have been like, oh, I'm sorry, sorry, yeah, exactly. 490 00:25:21,516 --> 00:25:24,156 Speaker 1: This was like a combination of teacher mode and dad 491 00:25:24,236 --> 00:25:27,196 Speaker 1: mode because I go to him and he's like, sorry, sorry, 492 00:25:27,436 --> 00:25:29,796 Speaker 1: I was just kidding, And I knew he was trying 493 00:25:29,796 --> 00:25:32,996 Speaker 1: to dismiss it and I would have to, but my dad, 494 00:25:33,076 --> 00:25:35,756 Speaker 1: my dad in me, is like, oh no, we're gonna 495 00:25:35,756 --> 00:25:37,716 Speaker 1: have a quick conversation about this, like it's not it's 496 00:25:37,756 --> 00:25:40,836 Speaker 1: not that easy. And at first, you know, again it was. 497 00:25:40,836 --> 00:25:43,276 Speaker 1: It was probably thirty second conversation. So in the first 498 00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:45,556 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen seconds, he was just trying to get 499 00:25:45,556 --> 00:25:46,956 Speaker 1: out of it, like waiting for it to be over, 500 00:25:47,116 --> 00:25:50,116 Speaker 1: like any teenager would. But as I, as I shared 501 00:25:50,156 --> 00:25:54,396 Speaker 1: with him why it was what he said was so hurtful, 502 00:25:54,876 --> 00:25:56,796 Speaker 1: I could I could see his eyes often like he 503 00:25:57,196 --> 00:25:59,756 Speaker 1: got it in a way that he hadn't thought about 504 00:25:59,796 --> 00:26:02,836 Speaker 1: it before. And then and then with the sincerity he 505 00:26:02,916 --> 00:26:05,636 Speaker 1: was like, I'm sorry, like I wish I hadn't done that. 506 00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:10,116 Speaker 1: And again it's like this really Mike Rome moments, right, 507 00:26:10,116 --> 00:26:13,196 Speaker 1: it wasn't the worst thing in the world. By engaging 508 00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:16,396 Speaker 1: with him, I didn't change the world or fix the world. 509 00:26:16,596 --> 00:26:20,196 Speaker 1: But again, like thinking about my dad after a nine 510 00:26:20,236 --> 00:26:22,716 Speaker 1: to eleven, like what does it mean for us to 511 00:26:22,836 --> 00:26:26,036 Speaker 1: meet these moments with our values, to reclaim our agency 512 00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:29,676 Speaker 1: in ways that give us hope to say, actually, like 513 00:26:29,716 --> 00:26:32,276 Speaker 1: the world doesn't just happen to me, like I can 514 00:26:32,996 --> 00:26:35,396 Speaker 1: contribute to it. I can have a positive impact, And 515 00:26:35,476 --> 00:26:37,716 Speaker 1: for me, that meant I could enjoy the rest of 516 00:26:37,756 --> 00:26:40,156 Speaker 1: the beautiful day, right, like I walked away being happy 517 00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:42,436 Speaker 1: with how I dealt with it, rather than being annoyed 518 00:26:42,516 --> 00:26:45,276 Speaker 1: or frustrated as I would have been. I just ignored it. 519 00:26:45,316 --> 00:26:47,516 Speaker 1: And and same for him, right like he got something 520 00:26:47,516 --> 00:26:51,156 Speaker 1: out of it too, rather than just being enabled to 521 00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:53,916 Speaker 1: continue in the way that he had. So to me, 522 00:26:53,956 --> 00:26:58,436 Speaker 1: it's it's just this really simple practice of seeing people 523 00:26:58,676 --> 00:27:01,636 Speaker 1: for who they are in a world where we're often 524 00:27:02,156 --> 00:27:05,116 Speaker 1: bogged down by by the fear of engaging with people 525 00:27:05,116 --> 00:27:07,596 Speaker 1: who are different or people we don't know. And it 526 00:27:07,676 --> 00:27:10,316 Speaker 1: made all the difference in that moment for me. And 527 00:27:10,436 --> 00:27:12,996 Speaker 1: these moments of connection don't just you know, bring you 528 00:27:13,076 --> 00:27:14,876 Speaker 1: happiness in the moment, I think in ways that we 529 00:27:14,876 --> 00:27:17,236 Speaker 1: don't expect, right because to put that emotional labor in 530 00:27:17,396 --> 00:27:18,636 Speaker 1: is a pain in the butt, and that kind of 531 00:27:18,636 --> 00:27:21,476 Speaker 1: thing falls on marginalized individuals. But if you can do 532 00:27:21,516 --> 00:27:24,356 Speaker 1: it from a place of this idea of connectedness, sometimes 533 00:27:24,396 --> 00:27:26,916 Speaker 1: you can get happiness out of it. But but beyond that, 534 00:27:26,956 --> 00:27:29,556 Speaker 1: you can be that one moment or at least one 535 00:27:29,636 --> 00:27:31,996 Speaker 1: person is taught like it's a small act, but it's 536 00:27:32,036 --> 00:27:34,316 Speaker 1: kind of moving in the right direction. And this leads 537 00:27:34,316 --> 00:27:36,676 Speaker 1: to the you know, the metaphor that I know the 538 00:27:36,796 --> 00:27:38,876 Speaker 1: story you use that for which you named your book, 539 00:27:38,996 --> 00:27:40,996 Speaker 1: this idea of the lantern story. So I'm wondering if 540 00:27:40,996 --> 00:27:43,076 Speaker 1: we can end with that today, just kind of sharing 541 00:27:43,116 --> 00:27:44,836 Speaker 1: that story and how it's been a philosophy that you 542 00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:47,836 Speaker 1: use to try to do more good in the world. Yeah, 543 00:27:47,876 --> 00:27:51,316 Speaker 1: it's it's a parable a Punjabi voge tale that I 544 00:27:51,396 --> 00:27:54,476 Speaker 1: learned from one of our greatest human rights leaders named 545 00:27:54,516 --> 00:27:58,036 Speaker 1: just Fansancola, and it's about a lantern in a village 546 00:27:58,116 --> 00:28:01,596 Speaker 1: that is it with a collection of lanterns, and as 547 00:28:02,076 --> 00:28:04,996 Speaker 1: the sun starts to set in the evening, they start 548 00:28:05,036 --> 00:28:08,116 Speaker 1: to feel fear and they wonder what's going to happen 549 00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:10,516 Speaker 1: to us as the darkness comes, like we're not going 550 00:28:10,556 --> 00:28:13,516 Speaker 1: to be able to see anything. And one of the lanterns, 551 00:28:14,276 --> 00:28:18,516 Speaker 1: as the darkness sets in, announces I challenge the darkness, 552 00:28:19,276 --> 00:28:22,436 Speaker 1: and it flicks on its light and you know, there's 553 00:28:22,476 --> 00:28:26,076 Speaker 1: no intention of anyone else doing the same. There's there's 554 00:28:26,116 --> 00:28:31,476 Speaker 1: also no intention of conquering darkness entirely, but it's it's 555 00:28:31,516 --> 00:28:33,516 Speaker 1: just this one little lantern saying I'm going to do 556 00:28:33,516 --> 00:28:36,756 Speaker 1: what I can. But what happens after that is the 557 00:28:36,796 --> 00:28:39,836 Speaker 1: other lanterns around it start to feel inspired and recognizing 558 00:28:39,916 --> 00:28:42,236 Speaker 1: that they can do the same, and that there is 559 00:28:42,236 --> 00:28:46,156 Speaker 1: a real possibility and challenging the darkness continually. And then 560 00:28:46,156 --> 00:28:48,476 Speaker 1: all of the lanterns, one by one flick on their 561 00:28:48,636 --> 00:28:50,716 Speaker 1: their lights. And I think part of what I love 562 00:28:51,316 --> 00:28:57,156 Speaker 1: about this parable is that it encapsulates the humility and 563 00:28:57,236 --> 00:28:59,916 Speaker 1: the possibility at the same time, right that the two 564 00:29:00,196 --> 00:29:03,156 Speaker 1: are often attention, but both both are true. And I 565 00:29:03,156 --> 00:29:06,676 Speaker 1: think what else I love about it is that it's 566 00:29:06,716 --> 00:29:10,636 Speaker 1: so easy to feel the overwhelming darkness in our lives. 567 00:29:10,676 --> 00:29:12,636 Speaker 1: I mean all the time. I feel it all the time, 568 00:29:12,636 --> 00:29:15,276 Speaker 1: and I know so many people feel it constantly, And 569 00:29:15,396 --> 00:29:19,076 Speaker 1: to know, in the way that we're taught in my 570 00:29:19,196 --> 00:29:22,036 Speaker 1: tradition and in so many others, that that light is 571 00:29:22,076 --> 00:29:24,636 Speaker 1: already inside of us, and what we really need to 572 00:29:24,676 --> 00:29:28,076 Speaker 1: do is to see it, to recognize it, to take it. 573 00:29:28,116 --> 00:29:32,396 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's profound implications for our for 574 00:29:32,476 --> 00:29:35,196 Speaker 1: what we're facing today, whether it comes to you, the 575 00:29:35,236 --> 00:29:38,596 Speaker 1: crisis around mental health, depression rates, I mean, so much 576 00:29:38,596 --> 00:29:41,916 Speaker 1: of that could at least be affected if we could 577 00:29:42,636 --> 00:29:45,236 Speaker 1: learn to see the light within ourselves and really see 578 00:29:45,236 --> 00:29:48,196 Speaker 1: our own inherent value that's already there. But it's it 579 00:29:48,316 --> 00:29:50,796 Speaker 1: is really hard to see, so this parable is a 580 00:29:50,876 --> 00:29:54,516 Speaker 1: nice reminder for me about that as well. I hope 581 00:29:54,516 --> 00:29:56,676 Speaker 1: you've found some light in all the episodes we've shared 582 00:29:56,676 --> 00:29:59,556 Speaker 1: together in this season of Happiness. Lessons of the Ancients, 583 00:30:00,276 --> 00:30:03,596 Speaker 1: the philosopher's texts and thinkers we've examined are all, in 584 00:30:03,636 --> 00:30:06,676 Speaker 1: their own ways, small lights that have helped guide people 585 00:30:06,676 --> 00:30:10,836 Speaker 1: on the path to happiness for centuries. But it's time 586 00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:12,876 Speaker 1: to step out of the past and into the present. 587 00:30:13,596 --> 00:30:15,836 Speaker 1: So when The Happiness Lab returns, we'll be back to 588 00:30:15,916 --> 00:30:17,996 Speaker 1: presenting some of the latest research to come out of 589 00:30:17,996 --> 00:30:21,796 Speaker 1: happiness science. So I hope you'll join me for more 590 00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:24,156 Speaker 1: well being light in the weeks to come, and return 591 00:30:24,236 --> 00:30:27,276 Speaker 1: once again for the next episode of The Happiness Lab 592 00:30:27,396 --> 00:30:38,516 Speaker 1: with me Doctor Laurie Santos. The Happiness Lab is co 593 00:30:38,556 --> 00:30:41,636 Speaker 1: written by Ryan Dilley and is produced by Ryan Dilley, 594 00:30:41,836 --> 00:30:45,116 Speaker 1: Courtney Guerino, and Britney Brown. The show was mastered by 595 00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:48,556 Speaker 1: Evan Viola and our original music was composed by Zachary Silver. 596 00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:54,396 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Greta Kone, Eric Sandler, Carl Migliori, Nicole Morano, 597 00:30:54,636 --> 00:30:58,156 Speaker 1: Morgan Ratner, Jacob Weisberg, My agent Van Davis, and the 598 00:30:58,196 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 1: rest of the Pushkin team. The Happiness Lab is brought 599 00:31:01,116 --> 00:31:03,876 Speaker 1: to you by Pushkin Industries and by name doctor Laurie 600 00:31:03,876 --> 00:31:06,156 Speaker 1: Santos