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Speaker 1: The Butcher of Moss is released weekly absolutely free, but

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Speaker 1: It was a crisp spring morning in March nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: seven in the south of Belgium. Natalie Godard kicked off

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Speaker 1: her day by visiting the outdoor market near the center

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Speaker 1: of the small city of Malls. She liked to hit

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Speaker 1: the market just before clothes, when sellers offered the best

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Speaker 1: deals or sometimes even gave away whatever fruits and vegetables

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Speaker 1: they hadn't sold. Natalie needed every break she could get.

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Speaker 1: At twenty two, she was struggling after a difficult home

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Speaker 1: life followed by a series of bad choices. She was

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Speaker 1: an attractive young woman with reputation for being kind, so

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Speaker 1: people around the market and cafes and bars downtown had

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Speaker 1: a soft spot for Natalie. But her new boyfriend, Leopold

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Speaker 1: was a different story. He was anything but nice, but

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Speaker 1: people respected him and Natalie felt safe when he was around.

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Speaker 1: They were both free spirits in an on again, off

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Speaker 1: again relationship, living day by day, and on that day,

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Speaker 1: March sixteenth, nineteen ninety six, it was the White March

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Speaker 1: in mass. The White March was a peaceful protest in

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Speaker 1: solidarity with the families and victims of the d True Affair,

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Speaker 1: Belgium's most notorious criminal case, involving convicted serial killer Marked

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Speaker 1: a True and other accomplices. They kidnapped, abused, and murdered

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Speaker 1: several young girls. This tragedy was the subject of La

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Speaker 1: Montsless Season one. The White March in Moss was also

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Speaker 1: the last day Natalie go Dain would be seen alive.

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Speaker 1: Someone evil was watching her movements that day, waiting for

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to commit unspeakable crimes, crimes so horrific that

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Speaker 1: they haunt the citizens of Belgium still to this day.

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Speaker 3: A mysteriously.

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Speaker 4: The rest of the disappearance of a woman from Mont Jacqueline.

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Speaker 3: The condition of the victims was sickening, and the question remains,

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Speaker 3: where is the killer?

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Speaker 1: From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your Host Matt

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Speaker 1: Graves and this is La Monstre Season two, The Butcher

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Speaker 1: of Moss. It had been less than three months since

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Speaker 1: Jacqueline Leclair disappeared in the center of Moss. Now another

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Speaker 1: young woman, Natalie go Dar, had vanished without a trace

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Speaker 1: from the same small city. There were no eye witnesses

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Speaker 1: to either of the two disappearances, despite having taken place

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Speaker 1: in the center of a densely populated Western European city

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Speaker 1: at the time, no link was established between Jacqueline Leclaire,

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Speaker 1: who disappeared on December twenty second, nineteen ninety six, and

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Speaker 1: Natalie Godard, who went missing roughly three months later on

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Speaker 1: March sixteenth, nineteen ninety seven. Jacqueline and Natalie disappeared at

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Speaker 1: a time when Belgium was reeling from the the True Affair.

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Speaker 1: The entire country was in shock and disbelief at the

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Speaker 1: horrific events leading up to and after the arrest of

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Speaker 1: Mark d' true and his accomplices. Here's a short clip

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Speaker 1: from season one of La Manstre.

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Speaker 5: Public outrage at the catalog of atrocities attributed to this

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Speaker 5: man has escalated into nationwide anger at the system which

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Speaker 5: allowed the True and his accomplices to operate unchecked and

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Speaker 5: at will for years. Belgian justice is on trial.

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Speaker 1: At the time that the True affair was unfolding, another

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Speaker 1: series of unthinkable crimes was taking place beneath the surface.

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Speaker 1: Police forces across the country were stretched to the maximum,

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Speaker 1: and disappearances of adult women in Moss weren't getting the

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Speaker 1: attention they deserved. I spoke with the journalist Frederic Law

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Speaker 1: about what it was like to cover these cases at

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Speaker 1: the time. Frederic is an award winning investigative journalist for

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Speaker 1: the famous French magazine Paris Match, and he's agreed to

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Speaker 1: help me with this project.

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Speaker 3: I was a young journalist at the time of the

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Speaker 3: Jutrux affair and this case in Monts. I'm actually from Monts,

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Speaker 3: I grew up there, so this case was particularly interesting

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Speaker 3: for me. It was really a crazy time in Belgium.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the du True affair was blowing up and

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Speaker 3: stories were breaking every day. There was so much focus

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Speaker 3: on it that it sort of drawn out everything else.

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Speaker 3: As a young reporter, I covered everything. But since I

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Speaker 3: was from most as you know, I started following this

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Speaker 3: case the story closely. At the time, violence against women

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Speaker 3: did not attract the attention it does today, especially marginalized

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Speaker 3: woman like Jacqueline Leclaire and Natalie Godaar, And I would say,

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Speaker 3: despite the extraordinary work of the police and the judiciary,

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Speaker 3: it is reasonable to think that in another context, and

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Speaker 3: if they had a different profile, the resources allocated to

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Speaker 3: the investigation unit would have been greater.

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Speaker 6: So we're here walking next to the train station and

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Speaker 6: we're in go in front of the last place.

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Speaker 1: I'm standing in front of the last place Natali go

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Speaker 1: Dar was seen. You'll recall from the previous episode that

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Speaker 1: Xavier and I traveled to Monts to meet with Morgan

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Speaker 1: van Leerberg. Xavier is a private investigator who I've worked

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Speaker 1: with on other cases, and Morgan is an author who

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Speaker 1: wrote an incredible book about this affair. You'll also hear

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Speaker 1: some other voices in the background who will remain unnamed

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Speaker 1: given the sensitive nature of this still active case. Certain

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Speaker 1: federal police officers and judicial authorities aren't happy at all

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Speaker 1: about our reinvestigation. One of the people we're with explains

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Speaker 1: that Natalie was last spotted here in front of this

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Speaker 1: fast food establishment next to the central train station. Technically

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Speaker 1: it's what's called a fretri or a French fries shop,

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Speaker 1: a cultural staple in Belgium serving a thick cut, double

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Speaker 1: cooked French fries. You can pretty much find at least

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Speaker 1: one free tree in every village in town throughout the country.

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Speaker 1: On the evening of March sixteenth, nineteen ninety seven, Natalie

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend Leopold joined up with friends at an

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Speaker 1: apartment in the city center after participating in the White

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Speaker 1: March earlier that day. As usual with this friend group,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of drinking, smoking, and probably more.

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Speaker 1: At around eleven thirty pm, several of them, including Natalie

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Speaker 1: and Leopold, got the munchies and decided to hit this

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Speaker 1: free tree next to the train station. It's more of

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Speaker 1: a takeaway place as opposed to seeded eating, so Natalie

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Speaker 1: gave Leopold her order and decided to hang outside while

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Speaker 1: others went in. When they came out, Natalie was gone.

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Speaker 1: No one was really worried at the time because it

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Speaker 1: was a busy area with a lot of bars and nightlife.

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Speaker 1: Natalie was a free spirit, and they thought she just

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Speaker 1: wandered off and would find them later. One witness on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the street reported seeing her outside

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Speaker 1: of the free tree walking in the direction of the

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Speaker 1: train station, and that was it. No other leads Natalie

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Speaker 1: had vanished. The last person to see Natalie before she

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Speaker 1: disappeared here didn't notice anything suspicious. Morgan explains.

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Speaker 7: There was a person who was at the free toeri

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Speaker 7: and then left and crossed the street here, and when

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Speaker 7: she turned around, she saw Natalie alone taking steps towards

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Speaker 7: the train station, but without knowing if she was really

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Speaker 7: walking towards the station or just meanderings of.

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Speaker 3: The other side of the street.

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Speaker 1: No one knew it at the time, but there was

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Speaker 1: a connection between Natalie Godard and Jacqueline Leclaire, who disappeared

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Speaker 1: a few months prior. Both women frequented several of the

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Speaker 1: same cafes and bars near the train station, and specifically

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Speaker 1: a small hotel and bar establishment called La Metropol. La

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Speaker 1: Metropol was and still is a quaint hotel and bar

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Speaker 1: across the street from the central train station. Despite its

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Speaker 1: location in this rough and tumble neighborhood, Le Metropold exuded

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Speaker 1: a higher standard than most of the surrounding establishments. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, it was a place welcome to all comers,

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Speaker 1: provided they stuck to the rules laid down by its warm,

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Speaker 1: yet intransigent owner, Madame ganche She bought the establishment way

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Speaker 1: back in nineteen seventy eight and can still be found

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Speaker 1: holding down the bar today, forty six years later. Madame

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Speaker 1: ganche knew both Jacqueline and Natalie, who were regulars at

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Speaker 1: Le Metropold Bar. Morgan has spent years building trust with

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Speaker 1: her to help him learn more about the case. She's

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Speaker 1: not easy to approach, so when he finally said that

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Speaker 1: she might speak to me if I showed up the

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Speaker 1: next day, I jumped on a train to Moss to

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Speaker 1: give it a shot.

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Speaker 6: Here I am again, once more in Moss. I'm walking

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Speaker 6: into this new train station who was budgeted at thirty

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Speaker 6: eight million and the ending budget was five hundred million.

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Speaker 6: It's a national scandal. Here it looks like a space ship,

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Speaker 6: but I have to admit it's pretty beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Le Metropole is only about a two minute walk from

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Speaker 1: the train station and literally directly across the street from

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Speaker 1: the spot where Natalie Goddard disappeared.

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Speaker 6: Oh well, here goes nothing. It was kind of shown

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Speaker 6: up at the Hotel Metropols. I think Monique is actually sick,

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Speaker 6: so uh, we'll see Monsieur.

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Speaker 1: Matt true deform. Monique was at her post running the bar.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty much empty at this relatively early hour.

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Speaker 1: She initially looked at me with a jaundiced eye, but

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Speaker 1: then warmed up when I mentioned that I was Morgan's friend.

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Speaker 1: I lucked out and she agreed to speak, and we

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Speaker 1: found a spot near the back. I started out by

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Speaker 1: asking if she could describe her memories of Jacqueline Leclaire,

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Speaker 1: the first woman who went missing in December nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 8: Jacquelin Jacqueline was very beautiful. She attracted people towards her.

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Speaker 8: She was really the contrary of the other women who

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Speaker 8: tried to do themselves up and attract gallantries left and right.

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Speaker 8: Maqui she didn't use makeup, and she wore blue jeans

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Speaker 8: or something like that, so she didn't try to make

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Speaker 8: herself beautiful because she didn't have to. She talked to

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Speaker 8: me about her children. She liked to connect and talk.

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Speaker 8: She needed someone to confide in, but she didn't go

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Speaker 8: too deep. She told me that she was separated and

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Speaker 8: that her husband had the children.

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Speaker 1: Tissed Saint Plumont.

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Speaker 8: She was sad because she didn't have her children. She

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Speaker 8: was nice and agreeable. I never saw her have negative

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Speaker 8: conversations with others. She wasn't looking for anyone. She'd come

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Speaker 8: in to say hi to me because we knew each other.

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Speaker 8: She had a good head on her shoulders and wouldn't

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Speaker 8: get involved with someone she didn't know. It surprises me.

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Speaker 8: I think she knew the person who harmed her.

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Speaker 1: I also asked Monique about the second young woman who disappeared,

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Speaker 1: Natalie go Dar. She was last seen less than one

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Speaker 1: hundred feet from where we're sitting right now, just under

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Speaker 1: three months after Jacqueline went missing.

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Speaker 9: But Natalillo.

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Speaker 8: Natalie was a girl who didn't look like much and

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Speaker 8: who didn't seem to worry about things. I never had

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Speaker 8: much conversation with her because she was always talking to

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Speaker 8: someone else who she knew, or someone just having a drink,

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Speaker 8: and she also went to the other bars around here

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Speaker 8: to drink. I often saw her with a former military guy,

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Speaker 8: a guy who had been in the military and was

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Speaker 8: missing an eye. She often spoke with him. He was

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Speaker 8: a beer drinker and so was she. When I heard

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Speaker 8: that she didn't have a place to live, I thought

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Speaker 8: it may be a crime of opportunity that whoever it

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Speaker 8: was who picked her up might have offered her a

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Speaker 8: night in a hotel. I don't know what he had

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Speaker 8: going on in his head. He certainly had planned and

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Speaker 8: organized his work and decided that he'd take her to

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Speaker 8: a hotel because she didn't have a place to live.

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Speaker 8: I don't know it could have been as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: Monique's theory that Natalie could have been offered a place

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Speaker 1: to stay that night stems from the fact that at

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Speaker 1: the time she was living on the streets with little

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Speaker 1: to no money. Well, Natalie and the first victim, Jacqueline,

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Speaker 1: came from different socioeconomic backgrounds. Both women were struggling at

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Speaker 1: the time of their disappearances, making them more vulnerable to

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Speaker 1: a predator. By the age of twenty two, Natalie go

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Speaker 1: dad had already endured a life of hardship. She grew

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Speaker 1: up in a dysfunctional, unloving family where affection and stability

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Speaker 1: were scarce. As a teenager, she sought escape from her

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Speaker 1: troubled home by spending time on the streets and getting

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Speaker 1: into unstable relationships. At nineteen, she became pregnant, but the

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Speaker 1: child's father refused to be involved, leaving her to navigate

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Speaker 1: an already difficult life alone. Her daughter, Laura, was eventually

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Speaker 1: placed in an infant orphanage. Here is Laura reflecting on

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Speaker 1: her early life and her mother's struggles in an interview

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Speaker 1: with a colleague.

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Speaker 9: My mother was living in the streets. In the end,

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Speaker 9: she was marginalized, but she was above all someone who

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Speaker 9: was looking for help. She was looking for help, but

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Speaker 9: there was no one in her life to help her.

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Speaker 9: I was put into an orphanage. It was mom's decision

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Speaker 9: to put me there, but it was for my own

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Speaker 9: security because she knew she couldn't manage alone. She told

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Speaker 9: people around her that she wanted to get her life

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Speaker 9: under control so she could get me back. Afterwards, I

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Speaker 9: was placed with my maternal grandmother. I thought a lot

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Speaker 9: about my mother because I then understood what it was

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Speaker 9: like to live with her.

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Speaker 4: Mother.

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Speaker 9: There was a lot of physical violence. Every day, I'd

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Speaker 9: get hit or insulted, repeated insults. My name was never pronounced.

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Speaker 9: I was called names, but never my own. She always

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Speaker 9: addressed me by a different insult. There were also death

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Speaker 9: threats I was told I'd nned up like my mother,

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Speaker 9: and I understood her solitude. It's impossible to live that

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Speaker 9: way without losing your footing at some point.

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Speaker 1: Natalie's daughter, Laura is an amazing person. Despite what she

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Speaker 1: went through, Laura found the strength to move forward, build

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Speaker 1: a life, and start a family of her own. Her

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Speaker 1: first hand account of what her mother must have endured

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Speaker 1: as heartbreaking. It's a cruel reminder of life's harsh injustices

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Speaker 1: and how we shouldn't rush to judge someone who's struggling

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Speaker 1: without understanding their circumstances. Both Natalie and Jacqueline were living

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Speaker 1: precarious lives and spending time in the bars and cafes

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Speaker 1: around the central station. Mons had a population of just

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Speaker 1: under a one hundred thousand people at the time, and

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Speaker 1: literally hundreds of bars and cafes spread throughout the city

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Speaker 1: and neighboring communes. Could it be a coincidence that two

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Speaker 1: regulars of a small bar went missing within months of

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Speaker 1: each other Sadly, no one was searching for Natalie because

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Speaker 1: she left home years prior and had been living rough

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Speaker 1: or wherever she could find a place to stay. Jacqueline's family,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand was continuing to search for her.

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Speaker 1: They knew she wouldn't just run off somewhere. In fact,

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Speaker 1: just before her disappearance, she'd been more optimistic than in

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Speaker 1: a long time, and she was looking forward to likely

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Speaker 1: getting to spend time with her four children over the holidays.

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Speaker 1: The owner of La Metropol, Madame Ganche, also confirmed this.

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Speaker 1: Mont Le tr.

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Speaker 8: My Guesza. The last time I saw her was in

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Speaker 8: a supermarket. She came up to me and said, I

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Speaker 8: have to tell you that I'm so happy because I'm

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Speaker 8: going to get my children over Christmas and New Years.

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Speaker 8: They're coming to.

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Speaker 1: Vien Move that she should thump me down.

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Speaker 8: And I said, that's wonderful, and I'm really happy for you.

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Speaker 8: She had changed her hairstyle, her hair was short, and

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Speaker 8: she seemed completely changed. The fact that someone is getting

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Speaker 8: her children back can also change a person. She was

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Speaker 8: perky and animated because her children were coming home. She said,

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Speaker 8: I'm getting ready. I'm so happy, I'm so happy. It

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Speaker 8: was the last time I saw her. It was around Christmas,

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Speaker 8: and a few days later she disappeared.

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Speaker 1: Jacqueline's family rapped their brains to try to think if

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Speaker 1: there was any sign or anyone in her life who

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Speaker 1: could be involved with her disappearance. According to her sister,

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Speaker 1: she was so focused on rebuilding her life and getting

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Speaker 1: shared custody of the children that she wasn't open to

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Speaker 1: new relationships at the time. There was one detail, however,

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Speaker 1: that she couldn't shake. These are her words translated into English.

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Speaker 10: About a year before her disappearance, she met someone in

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Speaker 10: the Wauxhall Park in monts She crossed path with him

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Speaker 10: a few times before, and at one point he approached

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Speaker 10: her for a conversation. She said it didn't seem to

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Speaker 10: be trying to charm or flirt with her. It seemed

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Speaker 10: like a good person, respectful. She had mentioned this mant

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Speaker 10: to me she found him rather nice, cultured and intelligent,

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Speaker 10: a pleasure to speak with. After meeting him in the park,

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Speaker 10: my sister ran into him a few more times. Jacqueline

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Speaker 10: was surprised by this, and I think that's why she

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Speaker 10: mentioned it to me. She always seems to bump into

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Speaker 10: him by chance, but at some point she felt that

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Speaker 10: dese encounters were probably orchestrated, maybe even calculated.

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Speaker 1: Who was this man with a habit of fortuitously bumping

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Speaker 1: into Jacqueline? We know that they cross paths in many

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Speaker 1: places where Jacqueline's life regularly took her. These include the

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Speaker 1: Walkshall Park roughly a mile west of her apartment, the

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Speaker 1: laundromat directly next to her place, and the metropols roughly

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Speaker 1: a mile east of her apartment. It seems odd that

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Speaker 1: she'd arbitrarily bump into the same person several times in

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Speaker 1: these random locations. His demeanor and appearance were distinct. He

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Speaker 1: seemed to be in his late forties or early fifties,

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Speaker 1: and he dressed impeccably and spoke articulately in a distinguished manner.

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Speaker 1: Not the sort of man you'd expect to bump into

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Speaker 1: it a laundromat in a rough part of town, or

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Speaker 1: the bars near the train station. Jacqueline's sister spent years

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Speaker 1: trying to identify this man. Morgan van Leaerberg, the author

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Speaker 1: who you heard in episode one, has continued the search.

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Speaker 1: Identifying this man could be the key to unearthing new

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Speaker 1: information about not only Jacqueline, but also about Natalie's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: So I'm teaming up with a private investigator Xavier, the

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Speaker 1: author Morgan, and the investigative journalist Frederic to see if together,

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Speaker 1: we can find him.

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Speaker 3: The police never identified what this man was. If you

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Speaker 3: think about it, it could be quite important. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Jacqueline told her sister that she thought the man was

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Speaker 3: observing her. It's not going to be easy, but we

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Speaker 3: have to identify this man.

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Speaker 1: As nineteen ninety six turned into ninety seven, life and

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Speaker 1: the city of Mons carried on as usual. The bars

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Speaker 1: and cafes around the central station rumbled along normally. Some

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Speaker 1: of the regulars knew that Jacqueline's sister was looking for

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Speaker 1: her because of the posters, but most of them didn't

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Speaker 1: even know that Natalie was missing. The disappearances of these

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Speaker 1: two young women didn't even make the headlines. Apart from

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Speaker 1: a brief mention about Jacqueline's disappearance on local news. Citizens

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Speaker 1: of Malls went about their normal business and young women

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Speaker 1: continued to live their lives uninterrupted. But all of this

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Speaker 1: was about to change next time. On season two of La.

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Speaker 4: Monstre Simfourian Street in Havrey, ne Mon, it's four pm,

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Speaker 4: but police forces are holding back the press from where

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Speaker 4: three new trash bags were just discovered containing human remains.

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Speaker 4: The King's prosecutor explains what seems more and more to

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Speaker 4: resemble a sordid treasure hunt. I can confirm as well

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Speaker 4: that on the left forearm of one of the victims

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Speaker 4: there was removal of roughly five centimeters of flesh.

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Speaker 10: I feared that the garbage bags contain my sister's body.

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Speaker 10: Jacqueline add a tattoo of her hex husband Angelo on

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Speaker 10: a left fore arm.

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Speaker 1: I played.

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Speaker 4: After the terrible discoveries of Saturday, investigators made a new

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Speaker 4: discovery yesterday afternoon of the torso of a woman. Ten

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Speaker 4: trash bags have been discovered so far. Investigators believe it

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Speaker 4: is the work of a serial killer. For the moment,

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Speaker 4: none of the victims have been identified.

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Speaker 1: Le Monstre is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts. Hosted, written,

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Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Matt Graves, Donald Albright and

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Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV,

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Speaker 1: with producer make Up and Vanity Set. Matt Frederick and

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Speaker 1: Trevor Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Original music by Jay Ragsdale, sound design and master by

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Speaker 1: Cooper Skinner. Cover design by Byron McCoy and Trevor Eiler.

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Speaker 1: Lea Monstre includes archival audio from SONYMA RTBF Archives. Special

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Speaker 1: thanks to Aren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, the

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Speaker 1: Nord Group and are Active Investigation Team Morgen van Leerberg,

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Speaker 1: Frederic Laugh, Xervid Comb and Annan Gardon, as well as

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Speaker 1: the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us

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Speaker 1: on social media at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: like Lea Monstre, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app

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00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: or visit Tenderfoot TV. Ready to keep listening, remember you

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Speaker 1: can benge the rest of the season right now with

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Speaker 1: an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple

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Speaker 1: Podcasts Plus. You'll get exclusive bonus episodes and add free listening.

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Speaker 1: So head to Apple Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus

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Speaker 1: and subscribe today