WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: Is brain size related to intelligence? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.480 M hey, everybody, Chuck here and welcome to another Saturday 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:07.080 Select Stuff You Should Know episode where Josh and I 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.799 take turns picking from the classics of some of our 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.960 favorite episodes. Because some of you may not know that 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.319 there are far more than three episodes that you see 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.320 at Apple Podcasts. We have over a thousand, so you 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:21.840 dig into the archives. And my pick this week is 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:27.360 from July two thousand fourteen. Is brain size related to intelligence? 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.400 I just remember loving this one. Super fascinated about the brain, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.800 as is Josh. It's one of our one of our 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.879 favorite organs, to be honest, and how it relates to 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.559 intelligence is pretty interesting. So we get into all that 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:50.960 in this episode. Please to enjoy right now, Welcome to 0:00:51.400 --> 0:01:00.200 Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works dot com. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.600 M hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.160 and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and this is Stuff 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.160 you Should Know. Yes, I think this might complete our brain. 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.479 I don't know about that, because we've done Einstein's brain, 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.240 done difference between men and women's brains, and now we're 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.280 tackling brain size, which is sort of puts on both 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.199 of us a little bit. It does, but there's always 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.959 new findings. So yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now, if 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.840 there's ever an ongoing sweet, it's got to be the 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.560 brain man there. It's growing all the time, it's changing shape, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.360 changing size, changing connections. You can almost say that sweet 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:43.560 is plastic plasticity. Baby. Yeah, that's right. Um, you sent 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.800 me something that I think we should talk about first, Chuck. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.000 This is kind of like, um, this is just like 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:54.880 a grab bag hodgepodge of loosely related studies that all 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.160 find that we don't really know the answer to the 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:03.280 question like does big brain mean a smarter person? Yeah, 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:08.560 because there's a lot of different conflicting findings. Well, a 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.119 few million years ago, our brains started growing a lot, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.480 and that kind of timed out with becoming smarter and 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.000 using tools and things. So I mean there's a little 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.240 bit of you call it evidence. Well, yeah, there's definitely 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.119 some plenty of evidence. I think that's what the confounding 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.040 part is that there's plenty of evidence that yes, as 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:31.079 a brain grows, it is correlated to intelligence. But then 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.360 that's only holding true up to a point. I sounded 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.480 like a Soviet immigrant. Just then that's only holding true 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.160 up to a certain point. A. Right, he's in Branson, Missouri, though, 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.040 did you know that. I think he's got like his 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.920 own restaurant or something. Well, he's own theater, and I 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.040 think all the theaters are food buttery. We should go 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:53.800 to Branson, man that I want to see what that 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.600 place is all about. Okay, you know, yeah, I mean 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.920 it's a parade of stars. If it's nineteen seventy three, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.480 you know. Uh yeah, I bet your boy Ronnie mills 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.480 Up is there. Yeah, if he doesn't have a place there, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.520 I'll bet he plays Branson fairly regularly. He sublets he 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:18.960 would play well there. Um, so Branson, how do we 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:24.120 even get them? Oh? Yeah? So brain size does correlate 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.280 to intelligence to a certain extent. But you can point 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.280 out like, well, sperm whale has a seventeen pound brain. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.640 Holy cow, it must be the smartest animal on the planet. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.760 Well it's not. I'm sorry to tell you sperm whale 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.840 fans that it's not the smartest animal on the planet. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.600 Humans are the smartest animal on the planet, and don't 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.600 you forget it. But we don't have the largest brains, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.800 so you kind of take that idea of Okay, Well, 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.440 if it's not brain size. Maybe it has to do 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.160 with the size of your brain in relation to your body. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.240 Then we start to get a little closer to jack pot. 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.680 But even still, I just want to I want to 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.640 spoil it for everybody. There's no definitive answer. Yeah, but 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.360 sometimes those are the best ones because we get to 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:10.320 explore all this stuff and we can't really get anything 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.120 wrong because nobody knows what's right. Oh I like this, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.840 then yeah, I've turned you know these Yeah, Now now 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.760 I feel good about this because I can't be wrong 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.120 right exactly. Well, I guess we should start off with 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.080 um a little bit about what determines what size brain 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.480 you do have. And again they don't know everything about it, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.360 but they think that genetics plays apart. They know this 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:40.240 in part by studying twins and identical twins. Um have, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.000 of course the same genes. Fraternal twins have about half 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.960 the same genes, and there's a greater correlation in brain 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.760 size if you're identical then fraternal. Yeah, so genetics, you know, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:53.800 looks like it probably plays a role. Yeah, And they've 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:59.520 done a lot of exploration into what genes in particular 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.279 have to do with brain size, and they've isolated a 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:09.200 few um one is called beta catenin. There's a hyphen 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.000 in there too. It's pretty flashy. Gene not beta carotene, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.640 no caten in. And who's who's coming up with the 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.760 naming convention for genes? They are all over the place, 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.159 Like you can't look at the name of a gene 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.080 and be like, that's obviously a gene unless there's like 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.360 a couple of weird consonants and a number and then 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.120 another consonant. Then you're like, well, that's a gene. But 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.760 you're right, that's a gene. It is a gene, and 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.280 it's a gene that they know controls brain growth because 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.279 they've injected poor mice with this stuff until their heads exploded. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.800 Exactly their heads they fell short of exploding, but a 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.080 lot of the mice died as a result of their 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.159 heads growing too big. But they're there. Their brains grew big, 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.760 and as a result of their brains growing big, they 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:58.800 exhibited um more intelligence, higher cognitive function. They injected these 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.760 things with a gene proteins your brain. That, yeah, that 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.320 made them smarter. Yeah, but that, like Molly points out 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.120 in this article, you can't. That doesn't mean we should 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.680 start doing that because these mice are dying, so you 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.760 can't just you can't play god as they say, no, 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.080 but it does make you wonder, like, Okay, you don't 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.599 want to shoot up beta cat and in like before 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.000 the S A T S or anything like that, but like, 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.159 is there a way to kind of tamper a little 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.520 less but still tamper with that gene? Something put under 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.960 your tongue and let it dissolve. Maybe sure, like you know, 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.520 just epigenetically, just a tad bit. Yeah not maybe you know, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.120 amplify it, just a tad and see what happens. But 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.440 it would cause your brain to grow, because that gene 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.880 is partially responsible for the size that your brain gets too. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.160 That's right as far as large brains go. Yes, like 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.800 it makes it larger. Yes, if you want to talk 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.640 smaller brains, there's another gene. And boy, you're right. The 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.400 names are all over the place, just convention wise. It's 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.839 not like they have different names that some are numbers 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:10.200 and dashes. And to get it together, people espm uh 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:15.560 it's an abbreviation for abnormal spindle like uh, micro cephally associated. 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.360 That's the name of the gene. Yeah, that's just shameful. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.440 And they say, microcephaliely associated, because that is a condition 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.320 that you've probably seen before when you're born with a 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.080 small head and small brain, which probably means you're going 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.480 to have some cognitive impairment. So so right there, smaller 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:38.200 brain is is correlated to lesser or lower faculty your 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.760 cognitive function. Yeah, we should look into that more for 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.960 another podcast. So I think it's uh from the images 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:49.880 I saw, it looks like you remember, like the movie Freaks. Yes, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.960 that that guy. I think that's so cute the deal. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.600 I think you have like normal sized nose and ears 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.520 and eyes, but your actual head and skull and brain 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.840 are small. But you don't look like the the um, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.440 the African safari guy from Beetlejuice not proportionately shrunk, right, 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.960 It's yeah, you get him down so small right, favorite, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.880 What was that guy's name from Freaks? I've read about 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:21.320 him before. No, he had his stage name. It was 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.680 like Topsy or Flopsy or something like that. And he 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:29.840 apparently like the greatest personality of all times, just so 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.360 lovable and was just exploited basically his whole life until 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.480 that movie like kind of got vengeance for him because 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:42.000 he was a real life side show performer. Well that's good. Yeah, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:47.040 Topsy It wasn't Topsy that was the elephant that Edison electrocuted, 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.800 but it was something along those lines. Just a fun, 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:56.040 fun name. Yeah, so check. There's another gene. This is 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.800 a little more genetically sounding e m x two. Yeah 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.480 that sequel. Sure it sounds like a dirt bike or 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:39.199 a gene Yeah, yea, yeah, it's UM. Again, we're not 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.400 We're not saying like, well, these are the genes that 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.240 provide you with your intellect. These are just genes that 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.440 they are saying. These things have to do with the 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.320 size of your brain, and they we also have figured 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.880 out that if you mess with these genes, you may 0:09:54.960 --> 0:10:00.520 also be messing with cognitive function. So we're laying the groundwork. Everybody, 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.160 just bear with us. The e m x two gene 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:08.520 UM apparently has to do with the growth of your um, 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.760 the functional subdivisions of the cortex. You have different cortices, 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.200 they're responsible for different things. So like if in that 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.360 New York Times article you send me, the guy uses 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.120 the visual cortex as an example, UM, where like you 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.480 get all your visual sensory input and your brain puts 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.120 it all together. That cortex, that region of your brain 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.960 is responsible for a fairly specific but also very um 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:37.960 complicated task. Now, this one functional cortex that the e 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.320 m X two gene is responsible for, UM has to 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:47.760 do with basically input, sensory input and motor output. So 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.520 your behavior, Like, um, if I came across this desk 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.600 at you and like pinched your cheeks, you'd like jump back, 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.640 I'd say, what is it Wednesday? Right? Right? Yeah, you 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:02.880 would make the connection that's Wednesday. Your behavior would occur. So, UM, 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.080 this e m x two gene has to do with 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.440 that cortex and its size. What they found is that 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:14.200 bigger is not necessarily better. If you have a lower 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.320 expression of it and you have a smaller subdivision of 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:22.719 that cortex, you're not gonna do very well behaviorally functionally, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.199 Like you won't be able to hit a baseball very well. Right, 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.920 But if it's too big, if that gene over expresses, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.000 you don't get better at hitting a baseball. With this 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.640 in particular, it seems to be fine tuned. So if 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.120 you're not hitting that sweet spot, you're never going to 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.800 hit a baseball. And there may be myriad other problems, 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.400 but you're definitely not going to hit that baseball. So 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.920 that means you're born with baseball talent pretty much. Yeah, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.760 because it's genetic, and there's like there's some people who 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.200 are so close to perfect that like baseball just comes 0:11:55.240 --> 0:12:00.160 naturally to the right, right, like Robert Redford exactly, he 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.040 really gave those lights a wall. Yeah, he's the natural. 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:09.280 So that's the genetic basis of it, Chuck. Yeah, and uh, 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.440 I guess we should talk some about size if it's important, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.640 because this is sort of the debate that keeps going 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.640 on and on. Is brain size corollary to intelligence levels? Uh? 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.800 They did find or they have found links between if 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.440 you have a lot of brain growth, um, if it's 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.360 disproportionate early on, Um, they've linked that and early on 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.160 meaning the first twelve months too, they've linked that to autism. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.880 So super rapid growth may what it may do is 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:45.439 just prevent those neural connections from happening like they should right. Um. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.800 And actually, well that's kind of links into that tethering 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.760 thing I sent you too, it does, which we will 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:56.199 talk about later. Um. In biology, though, is there's kind 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.400 of this consensus that it's that's not the only determinant. Yeah, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.520 that has a lot to do with um environment as well, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.320 I think kind of as a whole. People who investigate 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.320 correlations between brain size and intelligence have totally abandoned the 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:17.880 idea that UM, like, your brain is predetermined to grow 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.680 a certain way and then that's that. Yeah, well, size wise, 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.640 they've also found that eight if you have a d 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.120 h D, if you're an adolescent, your brain might be 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.439 three to four percent smaller than your classmate who does 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.560 not have a d h D. UM, and your brain 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.480 shrinks as you get older, but doesn't necessarily lose functionality 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.000 because of the shrinkage. It's not to say when you 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.720 get older, you don't, you know, lose functionality, but it's 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.360 not due to the size. No, they think that, um, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:50.400 it's probably mostly due to build up. Really okay, that 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.480 you're you're synapses are just kind of built up with 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.679 gunk remnant proteins from years and decades of firings. Then 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.480 you shake that off by can tinuing to use it. Yes, 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.160 that's one thing. But also they've recently found that um, 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.600 while you sleep, they think now the function of sleep. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.640 They didn't notice it before until I don't know what 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.920 kind of new imaging technology they used, but they found 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.120 out that there's this whole channel of like basically a 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.800 sewerage system that just clears out all the gunk from 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.720 your brain while you're sleeping at night, and it just 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.320 that's why you are cognitively refreshed. That makes sense from sleep. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.800 And we've done we did one on why sleep so important? Right, Yes, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.560 I think that was in there. We've done a bunch. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.680 There's a whole sleep suite too, alright. So one of 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.760 the reasons why, uh, people are still debating whether or 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.400 not brain size equals more intelligence or less intelligence is 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.200 because when there are a lot of different ways to 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.480 measure the brain um, you know, like do you take 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.040 a tape measure and go around it or do you 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.720 go from the middle out or do you do it 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.760 proportion to your body size, which is a real measurement 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.800 called encephalation quotient. And if they're talking about your body size, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.880 what if you're super fat? Like there are all these 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.040 different ways and no one, I don't think has ever 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.080 come to a consensus on the best way to actually 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.080 do the measurement in the first place. No. And there's 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.720 another really big outstanding question is how do you measure intelligence? 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:28.720 Like our i Q tests actually legitimate. Yeah, So when 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.000 you have two parts of your equation that are both hinky, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.680 how can you come up with an answer? Well, it 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.720 depends like if you're comparing species to species that in 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.720 sephilization quotation and actually has been proven to be pretty effective. 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:50.640 So like the proportion of your brain to your body 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.400 size is a pretty decent predictor of your e Q 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.000 is what it's called as a mammal. Yes, as as 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.200 a mammal. When you go outside of mammals, that it's 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.800 less and less effective. Um. But with humans, for example, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.960 we our our brain is like two point seven pounds 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.000 on average, it's something like around two to three. I've 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.760 seen as much as five, but I think it's about 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:19.120 three percent of our body weight. Um. But it uses 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.360 up about of the energy, which is another measure, Yes, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.600 like how much energy is your brain require? The more 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.880 energy your brain requires. In addition to things like e Q, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.920 you can get a pretty good idea of like how 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.720 intelligent that being is. Well, Einstein's brain remembers this was 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.400 the same size, but different parts were bigger than others. Right, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.320 so supposedly let's come under fire lately. Yeah, somebody was 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.960 like you, these studies are terrible, Like, you can't make 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:53.480 these huge leaps and bounds and um in conclusions just 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.760 from a couple of strips of brain tissue, But apparently 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.600 most studies have. Well I think that's sort of like 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.960 a juicy thing that people like to talk about Einstein's brain. Yeah, 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.040 you know, I could see people making that leap, right, 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.520 and the idea that like, oh, well, Einstein's brain is 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.520 just like anybody else's, well, that means that anybody could 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.399 be a genius. You know, it really argues in favor 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.960 of the nurture side of things. But if his brain 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.040 is structurally different, well, the genius is an inborn natural thing. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.840 It's just nature versus nurture played out on poure. Einstein 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.119 sliced that brain. Yeah, that lived in a garage for 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.920 many years, like everyone's brain. So here's the most controversial thing. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.480 Like when you're comparing species to species, like you said, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.680 especially among mammals, chuck, um, it's easier to say like, yes, 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:46.040 this eq thing works, But within a single species, that's 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.120 when things starting to fall apart. For instance, specifically among humans, 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.080 um men tend to have about a hundred grahams more 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.680 mass to their brain than women. But if a bigger 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:04.399 brain means that you are more intelligent, then does that 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.720 mean that men are more intelligent than women? I think 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.240 we all know that women are more intelligent than men. Okay, 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.280 so then brain size really has nothing to do with it, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:17.960 at least intra species, That's what I'm saying. But um, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.880 there have been plenty of studies that I'm sure got 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.200 a lot of people's hackles up. Um. One guy named 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:28.800 Michael McDaniel, who's a psychologist, basically entered the news cycle 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.000 bursting onto the scene in two thousand five, which is 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.160 always a little bit like, yeah, who's this guy? Right? Yeah, 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.600 but he came up with a study that was ready 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.920 made for CNN. Yeah. I mean he said flat out 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.040 that bigger brains means you're smarter, and that I E 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.440 or e G. Which one is it? Uh? I EVE 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.600 in this case, men are smarter than women. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.640 that's what he was saying. Yeah, because he basically put 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:03.760 brain imaging tests an i Q tests together and said, well, 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.040 there's a direct correlation between the two. And again with 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.800 these tests they did, uh, they compared um or they 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.120 converted s a T scores of a hundred thousand seventeen 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.480 and eighteen year old to an i Q score and 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.120 I don't see why they even had to do that. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.520 And they found that males average three point six three 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.399 IQ points higher, but um, I don't know. It just 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.920 seems really hinky because first of all, they used ten 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.000 thousand more females and males, so that's gonna excue things. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.880 And then it's an S A t R. What does 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.320 that even mean? Yeah, which has been proven time and 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.560 time again to be biased. Yeah, and then they converted 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.600 that to an i Q S cource with some like 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.280 I guess machine. Seems like some things would be lost 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.359 in translation. Yeah, I think it's a bunch of bunks. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.760 So yeah, I think you're not alone in the idea 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:51.520 that it's a bunch of bunks. So a lot of 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.879 um scientists have said, okay, all right, this whole brain 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:02.800 size correlating to intelligence sting of phrenology. Yes, when you're 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.960 talking about looking at it just in the human species, right, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.280 So what is it though? I mean, surely there's got 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:14.520 to be some biological part or aspect of the brain 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:20.720 that correlates to intelligence. If it's not size, then maybe 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.320 it's the number of neurons that you have, Yeah, neural connections. 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.800 A lot of people have thought that that was kind 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.119 of the second to most recent wave in thinking about 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:36.480 what brain structure correlates to intelligence. Yeah, this, um was 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.720 this the New York Times one about the tether hypothesis. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.240 This is just December of last year, so it's pretty recent. 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.280 And a couple of neuroscientists from Havred so you know, 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:51.880 they're right. Um, they had a pretty simple explanation. Um, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.280 when back in the day, when tooktok had a little 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.960 bitty tiny brain. Uh. Their argument is that the neurons 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:03.239 were tightly tethered in a pretty simple connection pattern, and 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.960 that when our brains started getting bigger, those tethers were 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.359 torn apart and it formed Uh, it enabled us. We 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.239 formed new neurons and new neural pathways and new circuits. Right, 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:14.360 That's that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:16.880 It's like the brain size might have been about the same, 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.160 and it was, but the neuro connections were still following 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:26.280 the primal animal connectivity, where it's like they they connect 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:31.400 in a predictable way, whereas with this untethered idea, they 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:35.800 just blossomed out. And do you know the idea of um, 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.560 like like what neuro connections look like today. Rather than 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.400 following like straight predictable lines, they were all over the place, 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:45.080 and from these new connections, new associations arose, and that 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.480 gave rise to intellect. According to this, yeah, it's pretty 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.560 simple smart. Yeah, Like I think sometimes the simplest hypotheses 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.359 might be on target with acam's razor my friend, or 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.000 maybe they just speak to me because I'm a dummy, 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:03.680 rightether of got play the other ball? Um, So that's 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.160 that is a competing explanation. Another one that I've seen, 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.639 uh says that it's not not the neurons, not the 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.719 number of neurons, not even the number of neural connections, 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.840 it's the chemistry and the complexity of the neuro transmitters 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:24.959 that are being conducted between these neurons. And from this 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.320 has kind of come this new idea that it's folly 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:32.240 to even say, well, humans are obviously smarter than a 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:36.719 bottle knows dolphins, even though they're smart because the bottle 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:45.080 knows dolphins. Um experience understanding of life is so radically 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.880 different from humans. Yeah, you can't. You can't compare intellect intellect. Yeah, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.399 you can't say, well, a dolphin can't you know, talk 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.119 and speak, but I can't do things a dolphin can do, right, 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.840 Or maybe dolphins are speaking, I mean to one another, 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.680 just not to us. That doesn't make them less intelligent 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.000 along and thanks for all the fish and we're not Yeah, 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.360 that's a good one. And we're not like anthropomorphizing here. Basically, 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:12.200 there's there is very little um point I guess. Yeah, 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.520 I don't get it to comparing the two. There's tremendous 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.800 point to getting to cracking this code and understanding dolphin 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:24.720 intellect for bird intellect, degreed octopus intellect and human intellect. 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:29.080 But to compare them is it's an exercise and futility. 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:31.000 There's no point to it. I don't get it. Yeah, 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.639 I mean, compared dolphin A to dolphin B one, maybe 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.800 smarter one might have a little patchy mustache and hang 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:40.679 out at the gas station a lot. That's not the 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.640 smart one. Yeah. I think people do this to either. 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.679 I think they're trying to claim some either superiority of 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.240 animals over humans or humans over animals, right, And that's 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:51.520 kind of that's a big issue these days, Like there 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.480 there are groups um animal rights groups that are trying 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:59.840 to further animal rights by getting them inalienable rights like 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:05.080 humans have right which would really screw up the zoos system. Yeah, 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:08.280 you can look for our podcast on that too. We did. Yeah, 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.240 that was a good one. Yeah. I think we landed 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:16.040 pretty heavily against zoos. Yeah we did. But to each 0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:19.160 their own. But I haven't been to a zoos since then. 0:24:51.240 --> 0:24:53.560 What is this Project Enigma? I thought that was pretty interesting. 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:57.199 It was another genetic thing, this UM. It was. It 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:00.200 was neat though in that like this Australian re which 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.240 just said, hey, we have something called the Internet and 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:07.359 m R I S and willing participants, so everybody starts 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.879 sending in your brain scans. Is that who proved that 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.120 the complexity of the neural activity was the most important thing? 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.040 Was that project? No, that was a different one. That 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:21.280 was there was a new scientist or no scientific American 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:27.160 article that UM that explored that idea as the the 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:32.800 synaptic proteins that create intellect or intelligence. But the Project 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:37.080 Enigma basically found that there is a single mutation on 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:41.840 a specific gene where if you have a C instead 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:45.960