1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: So it's no secret that at some point in their 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: lives everybody struggles to one degree or another with impostors syndrome, 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: with confidence, you know, and you have a lot of 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: people who want you UH to feel insecure and and 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: a lot of human life is UH an ongoing endeavor 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: to understand one self worth. Well, we have found a 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: quantitative worth for many people. It's in the world of 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: targeted online ads. Boys. It ever, it is weaponized insecurity, 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: UM writ large at its best or worst. I don't know, 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: you'd be the judge, you know. It's the way money 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: is made now. Really, when advertising money is spent, it 12 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: is usually on whatever service can offer the most targeting 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: or the most pinpoint targeting per dollar spent. Yes, down 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: to the dollars and cents of it. Uh. We were 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: very lucky to get our good friend to the show, 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, the created of tech Stuff, our local expert 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: on all things tech, to hop on this show with us. 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: In In this classic episode, you're gonna hear us chat 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: with Jonathan about targeted ads, how they work, and Honestly, 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: in the years since we recorded this, I am increasingly cynical. 21 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: I don't know about you. Guys, about all the privacy guarantees. 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm even more optimistic, never been more. I'm also sarcastic. 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: Here we go from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 26 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is not my 27 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: name is Noel, my name is Ben. You are you 28 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know? 29 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: But not any ordinary episode of this show. And here's 30 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: the part where you're saying, well, Ben, what is ordinary? 31 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: Great question? Question for another day, ladies and gentlemen, because 32 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: we are joined today by a special guest, a returning 33 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: force to our show, longtime collaborator and friend of all 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: three of ours, ladies and gentlemen, the illustrious, the magnanimous, 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: the transatlantic accenting, the phenomenal, the inevitable, Ladies and gentlemen, 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. Guys, I have to say that your ability 37 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: to introduce a person that is only matched by your 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: ability to tie incredibly complicated knots. I look forward to 39 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: getting out of the studio. What are we talking about today? Okay, 40 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: let's get through this quickly then, guys, look, no one 41 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: is getting untied until the show is over pipe down strictly, 42 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: all right, and that goes for you as well, Matt. 43 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: It is an excellent question. We are talking today about 44 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: something that might seem a little bit strange for some people, 45 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: which is advertising, but not just advertising, a specific kind 46 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: of advertise, targeted online advertising. So in our personal lives, 47 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: let's start there. Have you guys had any weird experiences 48 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: yourself with ads? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, well, I mean all 49 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: sorts of things, right, But okay, so first, when you 50 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: think about targeted advertising, you know you wanted to find 51 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: that a little bit, right. This is advertising that is 52 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: specifically geared to most likely uh interest you, based upon 53 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: whatever data the advertiser has on you in the effort 54 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: to sell a good and or service to you. Right. 55 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: That's the whole purpose of acts. So often we talk 56 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: about data mining, machine learning, examining people's behavior in order 57 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: to target them more effectively. But in the beginning, before 58 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: you gather all that information you're targeted, ads tend to 59 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: be a little more random and chaotic, may not necessarily 60 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: really target the person. And I'm specifically thinking of an 61 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: ad that popped up again and again and again for 62 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: me on Facebook for the longest time until I actually 63 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: had to take the effort to hide that ad and 64 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: say I don't want to see this anymore. I didn't 65 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: know you could do that. Yes you can, you can, 66 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: you can. There's a little there's a little menu you 67 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: can pull up and say this doesn't interest me, post 68 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: this and and what it can do is it actually 69 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: tells Facebook, oh, well, I can better serve ads to 70 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: this person by not showing this stuff like it benefits Facebook, 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: it benefits the companies that are advertising, and it benefits 72 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: the user. Right, You're just helping. What was the head 73 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: was for a muscle enhancer which had an impossibly muscular 74 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: person with an impossibly tiny head like you look at 75 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: you think, if this isn't photoshopped, this guy as a 76 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: miserable experience in his day to day life because he's 77 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: so muscular that his range of movement has to be limited. 78 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: It does not at all make me want to even 79 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: remotely consider getting whatever nutritional supplement they're trying to sell 80 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: or or there you know, uh, weight loss program or 81 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: muscle building photoshop courses. I mean, you guys can see me. 82 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: You you guys out there can't, but the guys here 83 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: in the podcast room can see me. Your head is 84 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: normal size, and you can also tell that I am 85 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: clearly not terribly concerned about building lots of muscle mass. 86 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I might need a few moments here. 87 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: I could take off the shirt, but that's probably not 88 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: something any of us really wants to have burned into 89 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: our memory. All that being said, you do clearly have 90 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: a pension for different flavors of muscle milk. Well, that's true. 91 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: That's it's just because you know, I support those guys 92 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: to get in here before we move on. I recently 93 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: had a baby and we made the mistake of making 94 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: a registry at Target. And as soon as we did that, 95 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: all of the advertising back when we had cable, all 96 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: of it was maybe centric, and maybe it wasn't the 97 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, going to Target doing that. Maybe it was 98 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: our search result history, maybe it was any number of things. 99 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: But as soon as that life event happened for us, 100 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: every advertisement that we saw was about it. I've got 101 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: I've got an even more recent one for me that, um, 102 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what comes out of it now, 103 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: because right now it's at the earliest stages. I was 104 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: looking for a price quote for a particular type of vehicle, 105 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: so I used a website where you can get price 106 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: comparisons for dealerships in your area that sell whatever vehicle 107 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: you're looking into. And in order to get that information, 108 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: you have to do things like put in your email 109 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: address and but in your phone number. I knew what 110 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: was going to happen while I was doing it, but 111 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: I really needed to see those price que so I 112 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: did it. Immediately, I'm getting phone calls and emails from 113 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: all the dealerships in the area. Now that's the first wave. 114 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,679 Speaker 1: I suspect what happens next is if I keep checking 115 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: my email and I look through the spam filter, I'm 116 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: gonna see a lot of car related stuff come at me. 117 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: Not the specific make and model that I was looking at, 118 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: but all sorts of things like aftermarket and all that 119 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, the related things around the car industry. 120 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: I expect I'll get a lot of that because I 121 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: have been identified as someone actively looking into purchasing a car, 122 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: and it is very valuable information for a company to have. 123 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: They could sell that to other companies before money. And 124 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: then I get inundated by all this advertising. So let's 125 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: look at advertisements. Jonathan. You provided an excellent definition of 126 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: what an advertisement is, essentially at heart and unsolicited attempt 127 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: to showcase the benefits of product X or the less 128 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: concrete sense of the brand, a tone of an experience 129 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: in hopes of having you, the customer, purchase an item 130 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: or service. And the thing is, this is super I'm 131 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: not gonna occurse because we're still a family show. This 132 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: is super old. How old is it? Well, the earliest 133 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: known advertisement that we have right now comes from three 134 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: thousand BC from Thebes, Greece. I'm not sure if you've 135 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: seen this, Jonathan. You might have seen this, but it's uh, 136 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: it's can't take a wild guests. I mean, if I 137 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: had to guess ancient Greece advertisement, I'm gonna say it's 138 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: something brothel related. No, in fact, which has got one 139 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: to tell you? Yeah? Yeah, okay, Well, let me do 140 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: this one really fast. So this was for okay, let's 141 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: just go to it. It was a seller of fabrics 142 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: who had made this papyrus right, and he claimed that 143 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: he would give a reward to anyone who would report 144 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: the whereabouts of quote slave sem somebody. This was Hapoo. Yeah, 145 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: hapo was was the name of the gentleman, and not 146 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: to be confused with Shemp, the underappreciated. Yes so anywhere, 147 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: Yes so. Anyone who would report the whereabouts of this 148 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: slave Sham and then report to him at his store 149 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: where he is would get a reward. And here's the thing. 150 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: It's said on the papyrus, anyone who returns him to 151 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: the store quote where the most beautiful fabrics are woven 152 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: for each person's taste. By the way, and I think 153 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: he sounds more like an A p B than an AD. 154 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: It's it's both, it's both. The pyrus was crazy, you know, 155 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: it wasn't as available as paper is today. But I 156 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: think I know the example you're going to mention. Yeah, 157 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: so the example I'm mentioning was a more permanent type 158 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: of advertising. And uh so, I've I've visited Pompeii, well 159 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: known as the village that was completely engulfed in volcanic ash, 160 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: killing every addie who was there, but preserving the village 161 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: very well. And you can go and tour Pompeii and 162 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: it's very interesting. One of the things you will notice 163 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: if you're looking down, which I recommend you do because 164 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: the ground is very uneven in certain places. Is that 165 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: every occasional paving stone you come across, there's a very 166 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: particular relief on that paving stone, a fallus, if you will, 167 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: or as my tour guide referred to it, a p noose. 168 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: And these pointed the direction toward the closest brothel. Yes, 169 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: because people would have visit Pompeii and they wouldn't necessarily 170 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: be able to speak Greek. It was all Greek to them, 171 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: but they understood what the signs meant, could follow it 172 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: and get to their desired destination, whereupon they would be 173 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: greeted with a mural that would have the offerings of 174 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: the house displayed, and they could just point to whatever 175 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: one they wanted repute. And so, as we see advertising 176 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: is an ancient craft, art, science, trick scam, much of 177 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: what we see a modern advertising today can be traced 178 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: back to a fellow named Edward Burnet's. We will not 179 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: labor you with the description of Edward Burne's other than 180 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: to say you can check out our multiple videos and 181 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: audio podcasts on it. The first audio podcast for this 182 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: show actually Go all the Way Back. The Dude was 183 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: incredibly manipulative and intelligent and and some could argue unscrupulous. 184 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: And so now we know there are several types of 185 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: advertisement and when they hear just a few. So first 186 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: we have direct address. So this is basically the equivalent 187 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: of Hello, I am an ad for this product, product X, 188 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: y Z whatever. Here is a cool joke by it 189 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: by me. So it's the idea of sort of instilling 190 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: positive feelings in people and associating those positive feelings with 191 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: particular product, like those those lovely Mentos ads from the nineties. 192 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: You know, that was a trivia question recently and I 193 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: immediately recalled the warm, fuzzy feelings you got when you 194 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: saw that plucky businessman who got paint on his suit 195 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: lay down on the bench and turn it into a 196 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: pin stripe. You know, it was just like you go, guys. 197 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: So for me, I think the most recent example that 198 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: that leaps to mind would be either the old spice commercials, 199 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: which sure yeah, the ones that evers Campbell as well, 200 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: those two, because they instill that sense of absurdity while 201 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: getting across this idea of this is this is a manly, 202 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: manly thing and will make you manly while not stinky, 203 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: and clearly for our purpose, is one of the most 204 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: important things here is that it is clearly being sold transparently, right, 205 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: And then that gets us to other things that would 206 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: be like branded constant. You can find this in uh 207 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: not nonprofits and NPR for instance. Though they will have 208 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: something where there will be a show that you might 209 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: enjoy or an episode of a thing, and then at 210 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: the beginning or at the end, or somewhere in the middle, 211 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: they will say brought to you by And this is 212 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: this is something where the advertiser wants to be associated 213 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: with the thing but doesn't want to, you know, be 214 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: all in your business. About. A company that is super 215 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: successful with doing that is red Bull. They do it 216 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: all for themselves, so they have these publications. They make 217 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: these skateboard videos, extreme sports videos, and all the gear 218 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: the people featuring these videos are wearing have red Bull 219 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: all over it. The skateboard half pipe says red Bull. 220 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: This guy down the bloody parachute says red Bull. You know, 221 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: but at the same time, you're like, you know what, 222 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: this is exciting content. I'm enjoying watching these people do 223 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: these dentifying feats. And and and one person sitting at 224 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: this table has a show sponsored by a large company. 225 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: I I do a show called Forward Thinking, and our 226 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: sponsor is Toyota. And Toyota is the company that makes 227 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: our show possible. It is entirely because of them. If 228 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: it in for Toyota, it would not exist. Again, you're 229 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: transparent about it. Every episode starts with a pre role 230 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: that's just brought to you by Toyota. And even even 231 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: more importantly to me is that Toyota gives me the 232 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: message of we want you to talk about things that 233 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: excite you about the future. That was my that's my 234 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: that's my direction. It's awesome. They don't they don't give 235 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: you anything. They don't ever they don't ever tell them like, 236 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: they don't ever tell them like what you should do 237 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: is relate space travel to this new sedan. Right, And 238 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: so the direction I get is what do you think 239 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: is really awesome about the future? Make episodes about that? 240 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: And I don't, like, I don't even have to submit 241 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: something to Toyota to get approval. They trust me to 242 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: do what is good for our show and good for 243 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: their brand, which is weird because you're crazy sketchy. Yeah, well, 244 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's true. But for four years we 245 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: managed to do that show so and this is one 246 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: of those things where if it's done well, it can 247 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: be a huge wind for everyone involved, but it can 248 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: also go in a bad direction either for for any 249 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: of the parties, and it's just because it hasn't been 250 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: handled properly that brings us to a darker side what 251 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: is called native advertising, or in a clever portmanteau advertorial. 252 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah so that what's that in Jonathan? You know? Yeah, 253 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: it would go kind of like this, Hi, I'm a 254 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: real thing. I'm not an ad, but hey, hey is 255 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: it isn't product X cool? You know what? That reminds me? 256 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: There's some legitimate journalism that I can point to right 257 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: here that just shows you how objectively amazing Product X is. 258 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: Not to mention science, look at the science we use 259 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: beakers right and this this is this is an iteration 260 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: that you can probably recognize any time you've been on 261 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: the internet. You can also see it in history, for 262 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: one example with Edward Burns of course, and had the 263 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: reason people bacon for breakfast is because there was this 264 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: avatarial thing which was purportedly a study by doctors. During 265 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: a darker time in my life, I actually worked for UM, 266 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: a company that published a community magazine. You guys know 267 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: these community magazines. Everyone's got it. Your little city has 268 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: a City X magazine. So I'm not going to name names, 269 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: but based on my experience with this, I can only 270 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: assume that a lot of them are kind of like this, 271 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. With My particular situation was 272 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: like this, where every single piece of content in this 273 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: City X magazine was paid for by local business owners, 274 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: but it was all like trained as some sort of 275 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: profile or some sort of you know, community interest piece 276 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: where it's about, look the great things that this lawyer 277 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: is doing. But wait, why are there nine stories about 278 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: nine different lawyers in this magazine? That's weird. That is 279 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: native advertising, avertorials, and that's the bread and butter of 280 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: a lot of these smaller publications because people want to 281 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: be seen and they want but the thing is, no 282 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: one's Maybe some people are fooled, but I would say 283 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: anyone listening to the show likely would not be fool 284 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: taken in. It's one of the things that I find 285 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: the most maddening about that approach, because we know you 286 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: guys out there, We know that you are smart, we 287 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: know that you can smell when someone's trying to sell 288 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: something to you, and you can't imagine how frustrating it 289 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: can be on the other side of that equation to 290 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: be the person who has to produce that thing through 291 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: whatever directive, like to be told, Hey, you've got to 292 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: create this podcast or video or article or whatever it 293 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: may be because we want to sell more widgets, and 294 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: so you've got to make this widget thing. And uh, 295 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: it's your you know how widgets work, but you but 296 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: really you're you're explaining how awesome widgets are. Um, this 297 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: doesn't happen frequently, and it's not something that I think 298 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: most people have caught on that it's not necessarily the 299 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: most useful approach because since the audience can recognize what's happening, 300 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: they lose respect for the outlet that is producing the stuff. 301 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: They're saying, Oh, these people are just selling an ad 302 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: or they're just selling a product or service. Therefore I 303 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: don't respect them anymore because it is stuff they don't 304 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: want you to know. But the problem is you know 305 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: it when you see it. This brings us to the 306 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: subject of to Day's podcast, which is targeted advertising NOL 307 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: based on what we know about you, and we do 308 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: know more than you think Jonathan, Matt and I are 309 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: going to show you this product. You're going to love it. 310 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: Everything about who you are tells us you're going to 311 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: love it. I'm excited to see it. Look, look, look, look, 312 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: didn't you say you like kayaks? I love Kayaks and 313 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: this one plays electronica. I love electronica playing Kayaks and 314 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: maybe Tom York signed it. You'll never know unless you 315 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: buy it. Never know. There's also a handy place to 316 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: put whiskey. What are you saying that I'm an alcoholic? No, 317 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: we just know you. Oh no, he just clicked he 318 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: found this out offensive. Back to the drawing board. The 319 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: next step was to talk about Beard Oyle. That's funny. 320 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: That's funny, But it's kind of the way these things were. 321 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: It's a it's a series of trial and error. It's 322 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: like Jonathan was saying earlier with the offensive what not offensive? 323 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: But the ad that was getting on your nerves to 324 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: the point where you had to hide it. When you 325 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: told Facebook that you didn't want to see that ad it, 326 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: Facebook took that as an opportunity, opportunity to say, Okay, 327 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: well he doesn't like this, Let's try something new. Let's 328 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: try something let's let's change a little bit and see 329 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 1: if he maybe likes this version of this thing. It's 330 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: switching up the bait in the trap, just like going 331 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: further than that. Like like the early stages of this, 332 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: it relied a lot on us giving direct information to 333 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: whatever platform we're talking about, Like Facebook is a great example, 334 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: saying actively saying I don't like this. Well, Facebook's like, 335 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: all right, well, now we know they don't like this, 336 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: but maybe they like this other thing. Maybe bodybuilders with 337 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: bigger heads. Yeah, maybe that would have made me feel 338 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: less freaked out. Amazon is another great example, right, Like 339 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: the early version of Amazon is that you would buy something, 340 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: or you would be browsing for a specific thing, and 341 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: it would just show you related items that other people 342 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: who had also bought that that particular item we're interested in, saying, hey, 343 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: people who are interested in kayaks often also look at paddles. 344 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: That makes sense, right. The thing there is it's you 345 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: are feeding Amazon this information by buying things, and the 346 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: more things you buy, oh and god forbid you buy 347 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: one of those suggested items, the more accurate it gets 348 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: at predicting the kinds of things you or people like 349 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: you will like. Once a month, I buy something just 350 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: completely out of left field. It's like the ratings on Netflix. 351 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: You're giving the algorithm good information that it can then 352 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: turn around and serve you better adds. Is that a 353 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: good thing? Ah, that's where it goes. So let's just 354 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: talk about the evolution of this. So when the nineteen nineties, 355 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: internet companies websites advertised with a method that was pretty 356 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: similar to what we saw on television. Right, they would say, 357 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: we'll choose ads based on what we think will appeal 358 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: to the most people in an audience. So, for example, 359 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: we've got Jonathan on a site about baseball statistics, and 360 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: they don't know anything about you other than you're a 361 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: person who visited this site, and by the virtue of 362 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: that piece of information, they say, you know what, adds 363 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: for gloves, adds for bats, adds for related merchandise, bobbleheads, 364 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: bobbleheads perfs. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty simple on the surface. 365 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: It worked for t V, but a great deal of 366 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: marketing research and focus group stuff when in behind this. 367 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: In the early two thousands, online advertising, like the terminator robots, 368 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: started to become more sophisticated. At first, we could tell 369 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: the difference, right, but now it became a little more complex. 370 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: Company said hey, we can use this Amazon stuff. So 371 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: companies said, hey, we can use these Google browsing habits. 372 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: This anonymous information on this allowed companies to tailor ads 373 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: to a specific users. So it's for example, Matt, you 374 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: and Jonathan you could vote both visit the same website 375 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: on your computers and and and you wouldn't see the 376 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: same ads you would have. You would have space allotted 377 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: for an AD or perhaps a pop up or pop 378 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: under whatever format that ad would take. And I'm sure 379 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: we could all list our most hated types of advertising 380 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: from top to bottom. Pop unders are the worst anyway, 381 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: especially pop unders with automated audio playing. But yeah, what 382 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: is this my Space or geo cities. You made me 383 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: decide to never buy a kayak again, I guess, and 384 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: just not hanging out in the rapid. There are a 385 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: couple of sites in particular that are super guilty of those, 386 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna say Salon is like one of the 387 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: worst of the middle of an article and then this 388 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: animated video will come down and fill up the whole 389 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: screen play music at me, and I'm just like, I 390 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: don't even want to I don't even remember what I 391 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: was reading anymore. That there are other ones that have 392 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: like related video that will start to auto play. Yeah, 393 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: and then you have to track it down, like it 394 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: is at the top of the screen, is in the 395 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: bottom of the screen. Where can I turn this off? 396 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Do I just need to mute the tab, which I 397 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: have done in the past, But at any rate, Yeah, 398 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: there's areas on a page that are designated for advertising, 399 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: whether it's on the physical page itself or it's some 400 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: sort of pop up or whatever. And while that layout 401 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: would remain largely the same for for Matt's visit and 402 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: for my visit, the actual ads we would view would 403 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: be based more upon the information that the web browser 404 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: was able to pull from me, that the the web 405 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: page owner was able to pull from me. Really, when 406 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: you think about it, those ads spaces, it's kind of 407 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: like a placeholder. You've got an advertising company that is 408 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: responsible for serving the ads that go into that placeholder. 409 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: The advertising company has tons of clients. Some of those 410 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: clients are going to appeal to Matt. Some of those 411 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: clients are going to appeal to me, Some might appeal 412 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: to both of us, And so what will happen is 413 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: based on Matt's behavior, which is exemplary, he would get 414 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: a certain type of ads, and based upon my behavior, 415 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: which is nefarious, I would get a different set of ads. 416 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: We're talking aboutlawful good, lawful evil, different ad experience. I 417 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: have often been described as lawful eye who I am 418 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: and really? Um So, so it sounds like we're kind 419 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: of demonizing ads a little bit. Yeah, but we do 420 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: need these things to to have our economy continue functioning. 421 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: Not to mention we specifically as Internet content creators, need 422 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: these things show and adds. Let's let's remember the ads 423 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: can actually show us stuff that is useful to us. Right, So, 424 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: so if if people use the abilities that we have 425 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: generated for targeted advertising, and those abilities include things like 426 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: collecting and mining huge amounts of information about an enormous 427 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: number of people, being able to differentiate the important factors 428 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: in that and match advertising up with those factors, to 429 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: parse it, yeah, and to act upon it properly. That's 430 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: that's pretty complicates of this kid stuff. If we use 431 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: that correctly, then under ideal circumstances, our experience as users 432 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: will be that we encounter the ads that actually matter 433 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: to us, stuff that either we would otherwise be in 434 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: tested it in maybe we were actively searching for it, 435 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: but we hadn't found what we really wanted yet, and 436 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: we would be able to connect to the things that 437 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: matter to us. And that's a positive experience on our end. 438 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: The the company selling that good or service, it's a 439 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: positive experience on their end because they get a customer. 440 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: The advertising company, it's a positive experience on there. And 441 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: because they delivered the proper ad to the proper place, 442 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: to the proper time. And for whatever website that ad 443 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: appears on, it's a positive experience because they get rewarded 444 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: for being the host of that ad. Everyone wins. The 445 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: problem is this technology, this capacity that we have, it 446 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: is much easier to misuse it than to use it properly. 447 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: Returning to our earlier comparison of the evolution of terminators, 448 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: or for fans of deep cuts, the evolution of the 449 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: robots and screamers, huhne, just like in that movie Looper. 450 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,239 Speaker 1: Oh in you know, so many things are like that 451 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: movie Looper all the time. The thing that we find though, 452 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: is that as there is an increasingly cynical and jaded 453 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: and aware population, people don't care to be manipulated I 454 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: think we can all agree. As this population learns more 455 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: and more about these advertising tricks, and as people build 456 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: things like ad blockers and stuff like that, targeted advertising 457 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: is also evolving and finding new ways to gather more data. 458 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: So it leads us to a question, is there a 459 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: legitimate privacy concern when it comes to targeted advertising? Jonathan, 460 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: you raised an excellent point in a live podcast we 461 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: did just before we hopped into while we were in 462 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,719 Speaker 1: the studio, but just before we started recording, and you 463 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: can also shameless plug check it out on our web 464 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: on our Facebook page Facebook come forward slash conspiracy stuff. 465 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: And you said something that really stayed with me, which 466 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: is you talked about collecting this data and you said 467 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: it's anonymous. You said, the thing they care least about 468 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: is your name. Your name means nothing. What what an 469 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: advertiser needs to know is what are you interested in? 470 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: How likely are you to buy something, how frequently are 471 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: you going to buy it? And what is the best 472 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: way to convince you to buy that thing? What your 473 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: name is matters probably the least. But here's the other 474 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: thing is that it takes a an incredibly small amount 475 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: of data to identify a person Uh. There was a 476 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: Harvard study that came out several years ago in which 477 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: a professor found that really if you had a person's 478 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: zip code, uh, the uh, the model of car they had, 479 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: and the color of that car. Um, I think there 480 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: might have been one other piece of information that you 481 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: could identify more than of the individuals based upon that 482 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: little bit of information. So think about all the stuff, 483 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: all the data you create just through your browsing. So 484 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: they're they're using local vehicle registrations to find everybody. Well, 485 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: this was just an example from Harvard saying that it 486 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: takes very little, It takes very few points of data 487 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: to to identify a person, to to link it to 488 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: an actual individual. But Jonathan, I'm a beautiful and unique snowflake. 489 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: Isn't it a bit reductive to you describe me and 490 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: to find me based on just a handful of data points? Absolutely, 491 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: But that's what advertising does. Right. There's this sounds like 492 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: there's some unrest in the thirty four demo. That's okay, 493 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: we can we can give him some some nice, some nice, 494 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: some nice soft drinks to really just take that edge off. 495 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Just fill the room with valium valium gas. So here's 496 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: the thing. It doesn't take very much information to get 497 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: a really good grip on who a person is. Even 498 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: if you don't know the person's name, you know what 499 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: their wants and desires are, Like the things that make 500 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: us us. We end up sharing that through our activities online, 501 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: just through your browsing history. That tells people a lot 502 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: of stuff. What you share on social networks obviously tells 503 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: people a lot of stuff. And this is valuable information 504 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: for advertisers. They pay money to get access to that 505 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: kind of information. And so there are companies that when 506 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: they gather that info, they gather that data, they'll sell 507 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: it to a data broker. The data broker will go 508 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: around collecting larger and larger amounts of this information. Just 509 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: imagine a huge spreadsheet filled with lots of little data 510 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: points about the things that you are particularly interested in. 511 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: Then they'll go and sell that to advertisers who will 512 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: then plot advertising against that information. Now, clearly this could 513 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: lead to some really nasty uh breaches in privacy and 514 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: security if it's used incorrectly. Before we move on, I 515 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: remember you did a tech stuff a while back. We 516 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: talked about some of this stuff, and I was surprised 517 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: to find that as an individual, your data ain't worth 518 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: all that much in terms of monetary value. It's when 519 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: you bundle it together for big picture use that it 520 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: becomes valuable. But do you remember what that number was? 521 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: It was? It was I think just it was either 522 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: just over or just under one dollar for for a person. 523 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: That's how much you're worth. Now. Now, obviously to you, 524 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: that information is worth a lot more because that is you, 525 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 1: That is who you are, that that information represents the 526 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: person that you are. So do you it is priceless. 527 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: To a company that is trying to sell that data 528 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: to an advertiser, it's worth around the buck a dollar 529 00:31:49,760 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: per person. Obviously the amount of money is dependent also 530 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: upon how rich is that data, how much information do 531 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: they have, what's the depth of profile? And we are 532 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: the ones handing that information over. We are actively doing 533 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: it ourselves simply by using the internet, by browsing the 534 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: pages we go to, by posting the things that we 535 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: post on Facebook or Twitter. We are actively generating that 536 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: information that other people are selling and profiting from. Now 537 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: you can limit that to a degree. Yeah, mitigate is 538 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: probably a better word. So you could do things like 539 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: you could use uh incognito mode where you're not using 540 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 1: cookies or anything like that. That would help limit the 541 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: amount of information that you are sharing when you're visiting 542 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: various websites, but that also limits what you're able to do. 543 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: Right Let's say you want to buy something on Amazon, Well, 544 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: you've got to be signed into an account to do 545 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just the way the system works. It's like, 546 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: if you want to buy something in a store, you 547 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: better money or a credit card or something like that. Uh, 548 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: if you don't, you can't buy the thing. And or 549 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: for something like a social media platform, Facebook being the 550 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: example we're using in this podcast, a social media platform 551 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: that is built to show you things it thinks you 552 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: would like from your friends, uses some of the same 553 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: techniques that they used to sell you kayaks or baseball, uh, gloves, bats. 554 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: What do we do? I think we did tickets, giant 555 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: like sticks the ball into the goal and you know 556 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: what sports ball paddles. It adds up, It adds up. 557 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: But that's that's a very good point, and at this 558 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: point we also should look at something that needs to 559 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: be more transparent across the board. Often, online advertising is 560 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: what I would call the Achilles heel of online content. 561 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: You know it's it's a primary funding thing that enables 562 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff we like to see to occur. 563 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: And you know, if you have listened to this show 564 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: for more than this episode, you know that occasionally we 565 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: have run ads, sometimes by really cool companies like Great 566 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: Courses right where you can pretty much learn for free, 567 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: or we've run ads for shadier companies, like an outfit 568 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: called Illumination Global Unlimited. So we want to be completely 569 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: clear about this that we see this practice across the board, 570 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: across the world, and across the net as a continuing thing. 571 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: The Pandora's box, which was actually a jar in the story, 572 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: is is already open. Ben. It's not just a continuing thing. 573 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: This is going to be an explosive thing. Let me 574 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: paint a picture of what the future is going to be, Ben. 575 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: Should I get under the table, No, No, just grab 576 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: a brush. Just imagine this, this future. This is the 577 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: future of future generations, Matt. So you think about that 578 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: for a second. Okay, I'm getting real here, man. So 579 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: it's a world where you can put on uh an 580 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: augmented reality pair of glasses which gives you incredible abilities 581 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: to see all sorts of really awesome information. Imagine being 582 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: able to walk down the streets of London and with 583 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: a simple command you can look at what it would 584 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: have looked like during Shakespeare's time. It would be really cool. 585 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: That's really interesting stuff. Or you're just asking to get 586 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: directions in a city that you're not familiar with, and 587 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: it's giving you a little overlay showing you where you 588 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: need to walk and where you can turn. Really useful stuff. 589 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: Oh it's also pointing out that, hey, you really like curry. 590 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: You had eight of that curry place a couple of 591 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: weeks ago. That was really awesome. This place that you're 592 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: passing right now has the best curry in the city. 593 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: You should probably go in there and eat. Oh and 594 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: by the way, across the street, Uh, there's a book 595 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: shop and they are having a sale for Neal game 596 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: in books. And I know you really love of the 597 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: the last Neil game in but you loved American Gods, 598 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 1: so you need to go in there. And oh, by 599 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: the way, you try to push, you try to push 600 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: skip and then you get at you cannot skip this content. 601 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: Now you know who's done this the best, the best 602 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: um pop culture representation of this near future Dystopia is 603 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: on a little show called Black Mirror that many of 604 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: you might be familiar with, in an episode called fifteen 605 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: Million Merits, and it's the second episode. Is the second episode. Yes, 606 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: it depicts a world where there is a hierarchy, um 607 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: a class divide between content creators basically and people that 608 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: are working the equivalent of blue collar jobs, and they 609 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: ride these bikes to generate power for the content creators. 610 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,959 Speaker 1: Presumably it's not entirely clear because it's almost this fairy 611 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: tale structure, which it's a wonderful one, and you're following 612 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: from the perspective of one of those blue colors, which 613 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 1: means that you have a limitted amount of information about 614 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: the world. But the way it works is they spend 615 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: time on these exercise bikes and earn the equivalent of pay, 616 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: but it's actually some sort of imaginary money called for merits. 617 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 1: It's like Xbox points, and it gives them the ability 618 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: to buy um different pieces of clothing for their avatar, 619 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: which in the episode looks kind of like those WE 620 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: those ME characters and the WE networks or whatever. And 621 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil anything. Everyone that hasn't seen it, 622 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: please watch it. It's a wonderful, prescient piece of science fiction. 623 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: The whole series is fantastic. Actually, it's been picked up 624 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: by Netflix for an American not reboot, but whole new run, 625 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: featuring the same show runner, Charlie Brooker, who is a genius. Anyway, 626 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: the way the ads play in the episode are you 627 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: get this ad and you can skip it, but it 628 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: could cost you. It will cost you your merits to 629 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: skip the ad. And then eventually, you know, the people 630 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: that don't have any merits, they got to watch all 631 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: the ads, and it's this whole economic ecosystem, for lack 632 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: of a better term, where you know, it's like a 633 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: self feeding system. It's it's like indentured servitude, but it's 634 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: a high tech version of it. So the thing is 635 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: that that this advertising is going to become more pervasive 636 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: as we get into the realm of the Internet of things, 637 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: as we get personal digital assistance, like you get things 638 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: like the Amazon Echo or Google. As we record this, 639 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: it's on the day that Google announced their Google Assistant, 640 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: and they're going to have their own Amazon Echo type 641 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: of product called Google Home. These are products that will 642 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: live in our houses if we choose to buy them, 643 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: and they will listen when we talk to them, and 644 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: maybe sometimes they'll listen when we're not trying to talk 645 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: to them, and they will help us do things and 646 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: buy stuff and learn about us and learn what stuff 647 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: we want to buy. And it becomes so pervasive and 648 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: part of our lives that it just becomes reality. It 649 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: is no longer adds. It is reality, right right, It's 650 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: just another layer of information that is biquitous, the same 651 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: way that the majority of people receive constant information from 652 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: their skin, their eyes, their ears, or their nose. Right. 653 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: And it's terrifying because I just see these pictures of 654 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: someone like Let's let's step even further a little bit 655 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: less plausible at this point. Let's go full dystopian. Let's 656 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: say that you have an offer to have the Internet 657 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: in your head boom little chip. You can search anything 658 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: we talked about on this show before. And it's free, 659 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: but it's ad supported, which means that every so often, 660 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: when you're in the midst of some amazing research and 661 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: you're saying, you're saying, oh, Google, what was the name 662 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: of r Siri or whomever? What was the name of 663 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:57,439 Speaker 1: that John Carpenter movie with Kurt Russell, right, right right, 664 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: and and then this list pops up in your in 665 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: your like interface and you can somehow see it, and 666 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: then it pauses, and everything stops, and you listen to 667 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: a voice in your head tell you about the reboot 668 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: of Big Trouble in Little China, and it's and it's louder. Jonathan, 669 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: you are our tech expert here how stuff works. And 670 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: one thing we love about having you over on our 671 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: show or coming to visit you on your show is 672 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: that we are able to explore in a credible and 673 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: well informed way these possibilities that that can so often 674 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: be exaggerated but then also ignored when there, when there 675 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: is dangerous. So we come to you today to ask 676 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: do you think this stuff is possible? If so, do 677 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: you think it's plausible? How realistic is that picture you painted? 678 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: So the picture I painted with augmented reality is not 679 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: just possible, it's happening. I mean, you get things like 680 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: the Microsoft holow lens that is going to open up 681 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: opportunities for app developers to create apps that are going 682 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: to be AD supported, just as the apps on your 683 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: smartphone often are ADS supported. If you've ever played any 684 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: game on your smartphone, chances are you've encountered one that 685 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: is supported by ads, and in order to progress in 686 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: the game, you need to watch an AD first. Same 687 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: thing is gonna happen with augmented reality. For a future 688 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: in which the entire reality is ADS supported, I think 689 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: that's going to be that's more far fetched. But devices 690 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: that that react to us and listen to us, you 691 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: can guarantee that they are going to go into feeding 692 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: more data. Two services like Amazon or Google that will 693 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: build out even more robust dossiers if you prefer on 694 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: the individuals within that home. Because there's an adage that 695 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: goes if the service you are using is free, you 696 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: are the product. You are the thing that is being sold. 697 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: Google is not really a search company. Google is an 698 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: ad company. And Google is able to sell information based 699 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: upon the searches that numerous individuals over billions of different 700 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: searches have provided. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, 701 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 1: but it can be a bad thing, and certainly it's 702 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,800 Speaker 1: the it's the sort of stuff that if someone had 703 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: the intent to misuse it, they could do a great 704 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: deal of harm or um end up being personally very 705 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: damaging to a particular individual. It's not likely to happen. 706 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: It's not like it would behoof whichever company it is 707 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: that owns that data to allow it to happen. But 708 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: it's possible because information is power. I mean, if you 709 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,879 Speaker 1: have a lot of information about somebody, you can use 710 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: that information either to help that person or you could 711 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: do lots of harm to that person. Um. So, really, 712 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: I think the worry is making sure that the companies 713 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: that are gathering all this information are practicing good stewardship, 714 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: that they're being responsible with it. Uh. But there's nothing 715 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: forcing them to do that other than their own self interests. 716 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: But self interest is I agree. So I'm saying like, 717 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: as soon as their behavior affects the bottom line, only 718 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: then will they change. But I would argue that we 719 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: contribute to this system willingly because it's the cost of 720 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: doing business, the cost of having all the benefits and 721 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: joys associated with being able to be on the internet 722 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: all the time, and having free email accounts and free 723 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: web hosting and this down the other I mean free podcasts. 724 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: We we love this stuff, you know well, and and 725 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: with things like social media platforms like Facebook and and 726 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 1: the fact, you know, people talk about oversharing here, I 727 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: say we're addicted to this stuff. Well, for me, Facebook 728 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: is the primary way that I interact with my friends 729 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 1: now because I have so little time, My friends have 730 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: so a little time. We don't live close to one another. 731 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: Uh that taking the time to to make taking time 732 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: to make time, boy son of a preacher man, to 733 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: take that time so that we can have personal interactions 734 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: in a real space, it's getting increasingly difficult. So Facebook 735 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: is a legitimately valuable tool for me to stay in 736 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 1: touch and learn what's going on with my friends lives. 737 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: You know who's having who just got a new job, 738 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: who's getting married, you know who's having a kid, that 739 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. That's really important for me to to 740 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: be able to keep up with that. And I love 741 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: being able to share in those experiences even vicariously through 742 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: this platform. And so I willingly engage in using Facebook 743 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: because it does have a value to me. Um. But 744 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: I know that the flip side of that is I'm 745 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: feeding more and more information about myself in the process, 746 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: And you have to ask your question yourself, a question, 747 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 1: is what I'm getting out of it worth the fact 748 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: that I'm giving up some of myself in return, exactly? 749 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: And that is a question that we would like you 750 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: to answer for us, ladies and gentlemen today, we are 751 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: going to skip our shout out corner because we wanted 752 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: to spend some more time exploring this question. You can 753 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: check out that live broadcast we mentioned earlier at the 754 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: front of our podcast where you can see Matt, Jonathan, Noel, 755 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,879 Speaker 1: and I talking about some other aspects of this that 756 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,919 Speaker 1: maybe we didn't quite touch on in the same So 757 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: I was worried that when we did that that we 758 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: were leaving all around the table and we're going to 759 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: skip it in the podcast. We ended up kind of 760 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: going in a little bit different directions. So definitely a 761 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: good supplement from this episode. So do check it out. 762 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: And while you're on the internet, hey, hey, why not 763 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 1: like and follow us on Twitter and Facebook. What a 764 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: great time to mention it. And let's know you're you're 765 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: already you're already on a list. It's uh, we're conspiras 766 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,240 Speaker 1: see stuff at both of those. Jonathan. For the people 767 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: who have not heard your appearances on earlier episodes or 768 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: our appearances on earlier episodes of your show, where's the 769 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: best place for people to find you? Well, I mean, 770 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: if you love the tech World. Tech Stuff is the 771 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: podcast that is going on eight years now and more 772 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,880 Speaker 1: than seven hundred fifty episodes of all things tech, so 773 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 1: you can go check that out. We've done everything from 774 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,919 Speaker 1: how specific technology works, to deep profiles of big tech 775 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: companies to explanations of important events in tech like the 776 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 1: video game crash of Night three, So that would be 777 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: my first suggestion. And of course you can check out 778 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,439 Speaker 1: things like now dot how stuff works dot com, which 779 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 1: is our more news oriented website. I write and shoot 780 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,960 Speaker 1: video for that site constantly, so you can check me 781 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: out there, uh tons of other places, but you just 782 00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: need to explore how stuff Works dot com. If you 783 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: love this show and you love learning, and you love 784 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: knowing what really makes the universe tick, you gotta go 785 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: to how stuff Works dot com. Well said. I will 786 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: also mention you can catch Jonathan. As we said, I'm 787 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: forward thinking and brain stuff audio and video. If you 788 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: like the future, you'll love those things. And speaking of 789 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: the future, our best suggestions for upcoming episodes come from you, 790 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, So let us know on Twitter, let 791 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: us know on Facebook. Answer to the question Jonathan posed 792 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: at the end, which I think virges on philosophy and 793 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,720 Speaker 1: matters of cosmic import. We want to hear your answer. 794 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: We want to hear your recommendations for things we should cover. 795 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: If you don't, and that's the end of this classic episode. 796 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 797 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 798 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 799 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,840 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 800 00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,879 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. If you don't want 801 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,839 Speaker 1: to do that, you can send us a good old 802 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. 803 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,320 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 804 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 805 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 806 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.