1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,396 --> 00:00:21,596 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, it's justin. 3 00:00:21,836 --> 00:00:22,116 Speaker 1: Today. 4 00:00:22,156 --> 00:00:25,356 Speaker 2: We're sharing a fantastic episode from another podcast, we love, 5 00:00:25,596 --> 00:00:28,596 Speaker 2: Louder Than a Riot. If y'all don't know about this show, 6 00:00:28,836 --> 00:00:32,276 Speaker 2: let me put you on game MPRS. Louder Than a 7 00:00:32,356 --> 00:00:35,356 Speaker 2: Riot is an award winning narrative hip hop podcast that 8 00:00:35,396 --> 00:00:38,396 Speaker 2: connects the stories of the biggest artists and innovators in 9 00:00:38,436 --> 00:00:42,476 Speaker 2: the genre to socio political changes we're going through right now. 10 00:00:43,556 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 2: This season, Louder Than a Riot is tackling the connection 11 00:00:46,796 --> 00:00:51,316 Speaker 2: between hip hop and misogyny. Hosted by the great Sidney 12 00:00:51,356 --> 00:00:55,036 Speaker 2: Madden and Rodney Carmichael, this team is digging into the 13 00:00:55,156 --> 00:00:58,756 Speaker 2: unwritten rules of rap that have marginalized Black women for 14 00:00:58,836 --> 00:01:03,116 Speaker 2: decades and highlighting the rule breakers who refuse to play nice. 15 00:01:04,116 --> 00:01:06,436 Speaker 2: In this episode, you're about to hear, Louder Than a 16 00:01:06,516 --> 00:01:10,996 Speaker 2: Riot tells the story of the first female mc mc 17 00:01:11,236 --> 00:01:14,516 Speaker 2: Shah Rock. She's a rapper from the Bronx and former 18 00:01:14,596 --> 00:01:17,516 Speaker 2: member of the Funky Four plus one More who laid 19 00:01:17,516 --> 00:01:20,636 Speaker 2: the foundations of rap as we know it. But even 20 00:01:20,676 --> 00:01:23,476 Speaker 2: though she's a pioneer, Shah's name often gets left out 21 00:01:23,516 --> 00:01:26,356 Speaker 2: of conversations around the history of hip hop. Why is 22 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:29,556 Speaker 2: that because decades ago, shah Rock had to deal with 23 00:01:29,596 --> 00:01:32,756 Speaker 2: the hurdles that so many women in rap still face today, 24 00:01:33,516 --> 00:01:37,516 Speaker 2: getting tokenized by her peers and played by the industry. 25 00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:40,876 Speaker 2: You're about to hear the story from the people who 26 00:01:40,916 --> 00:01:45,196 Speaker 2: lived it, interviews with shah Rock herself, along with rappers 27 00:01:45,276 --> 00:01:51,916 Speaker 2: she inspired like DMC, also historical experts like author Clover Hope. 28 00:01:51,956 --> 00:01:56,316 Speaker 2: This episode is a meditation on legacy. Who gets afforded 29 00:01:56,356 --> 00:01:59,396 Speaker 2: a legacy in hip hop? Who gets left out? And 30 00:01:59,476 --> 00:02:03,516 Speaker 2: how can you reclaim a legacy stolen from you? We 31 00:02:03,556 --> 00:02:05,636 Speaker 2: hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we did. 32 00:02:05,836 --> 00:02:08,476 Speaker 2: You can listen to more episodes from Louder than a Riot, 33 00:02:08,476 --> 00:02:11,716 Speaker 2: from Mprmiter Music, wherever you listen to podcasts. 34 00:02:12,996 --> 00:02:16,996 Speaker 3: A warning before we begin this podcast is explicit in 35 00:02:17,076 --> 00:02:21,116 Speaker 3: every way. Okay, So yeah, So this is the Bronx 36 00:02:21,276 --> 00:02:28,836 Speaker 3: Music Heritage Center. It's giving very much Bronx after school, 37 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:37,836 Speaker 3: painted piano, drum set, community center, vibes, posters everywhere, good crowd, 38 00:02:38,196 --> 00:02:41,716 Speaker 3: Q Crawd. We're the younger people in here, definitely here. 39 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:46,076 Speaker 3: I'm here with my producer Monos Sandrasan to see a 40 00:02:46,116 --> 00:02:49,276 Speaker 3: Bronx hip hop legend. There's a small crowd in the 41 00:02:49,276 --> 00:02:53,436 Speaker 3: community center. Grandmaster cast of the Cold Crush Brothers is 42 00:02:53,476 --> 00:02:56,276 Speaker 3: cutting it up on the turntables. As we make the 43 00:02:56,356 --> 00:02:58,596 Speaker 3: rounds to get a sense of who's here, we see 44 00:02:58,636 --> 00:03:00,316 Speaker 3: an older white man in the front row. 45 00:03:00,796 --> 00:03:05,276 Speaker 4: What's her name? Charles tell Rat and what do you 46 00:03:05,316 --> 00:03:07,876 Speaker 4: know about Sha Rock? I was really into hip hop, 47 00:03:07,916 --> 00:03:09,036 Speaker 4: but I got into it later. 48 00:03:09,156 --> 00:03:09,956 Speaker 5: I didn't know about her. 49 00:03:10,596 --> 00:03:13,796 Speaker 6: I thought Jane was the first question, but y'all. 50 00:03:13,676 --> 00:03:14,756 Speaker 5: Rock was the first. 51 00:03:14,916 --> 00:03:17,476 Speaker 3: Kaz bathes out the music and people start quieting down. 52 00:03:18,036 --> 00:03:23,716 Speaker 3: The woman of the hour takes the stage. 53 00:03:24,076 --> 00:03:26,516 Speaker 7: Her name is mc shah Rock. 54 00:03:26,996 --> 00:03:28,956 Speaker 4: We are so happy you have on the same the 55 00:03:29,076 --> 00:03:31,276 Speaker 4: first female EMC is they were. 56 00:03:31,756 --> 00:03:36,036 Speaker 8: Were for those of you. 57 00:03:36,196 --> 00:03:39,276 Speaker 3: Jall's got on big shades, gold hoop earrings, and a 58 00:03:39,316 --> 00:03:42,716 Speaker 3: black leather jacket. The way she commands the room, you 59 00:03:42,796 --> 00:03:44,956 Speaker 3: can definitely tell she was raising the Bronx. 60 00:03:45,236 --> 00:03:48,876 Speaker 4: I was the first female EMC to help move hip 61 00:03:48,916 --> 00:03:54,996 Speaker 4: hop culture with little or no resources. I set the 62 00:03:55,236 --> 00:03:58,356 Speaker 4: blue print and I say that humbly, but y'all gott 63 00:03:58,356 --> 00:03:59,156 Speaker 4: to know the truths. 64 00:03:59,796 --> 00:04:02,116 Speaker 9: Y'all gotta know the truth, especially when we're talking about 65 00:04:02,116 --> 00:04:04,636 Speaker 9: the Bronx, and especially when we're talking about the history 66 00:04:04,676 --> 00:04:05,236 Speaker 9: of the Bronx. 67 00:04:05,516 --> 00:04:07,876 Speaker 4: Y'all gotta know the truth. There were other female them 68 00:04:07,916 --> 00:04:10,316 Speaker 4: seeds that came out in ninety seventy nine. I'm the 69 00:04:10,316 --> 00:04:13,036 Speaker 4: first female I'm see to have a record deal, authentic 70 00:04:13,116 --> 00:04:16,436 Speaker 4: female mobc to have a record deal. The first MC 71 00:04:16,716 --> 00:04:22,596 Speaker 4: was national television Saturday Night Live. Yeah, I'm not small, 72 00:04:23,236 --> 00:04:26,156 Speaker 4: but I'll take some questions. But hold on. 73 00:04:26,716 --> 00:04:29,676 Speaker 3: If you haven't heard of MC Shahrock, member of the 74 00:04:29,716 --> 00:04:32,676 Speaker 3: Funky four plus one more and the first female MC, 75 00:04:33,476 --> 00:04:36,836 Speaker 3: You're not alone. There's some specific reasons why. 76 00:04:38,156 --> 00:04:38,396 Speaker 10: See. 77 00:04:38,476 --> 00:04:41,236 Speaker 3: Some people get a raise from history, but Shaw was 78 00:04:41,236 --> 00:04:46,316 Speaker 3: never in it to begin with. Part of the reason 79 00:04:46,636 --> 00:04:48,876 Speaker 3: was because she was laying the foundations for hip hop 80 00:04:49,356 --> 00:04:51,516 Speaker 3: before it was even really being documented. 81 00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:54,276 Speaker 5: Yeah, but the bigger reason is because she was treated 82 00:04:54,316 --> 00:04:58,116 Speaker 5: like an accessory and an afterthought. This season is about 83 00:04:58,116 --> 00:05:00,276 Speaker 5: how hard it is to be a woman in rap today, 84 00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:02,636 Speaker 5: but imagine what it must have felt like to be 85 00:05:02,676 --> 00:05:06,316 Speaker 5: a woman doing it in the genre's infancy. Now. Shallrock 86 00:05:06,516 --> 00:05:09,556 Speaker 5: was no stranger to the spotlight. During her heyday in 87 00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:12,356 Speaker 5: nineteen eighty one, she and her group the Funky four 88 00:05:12,436 --> 00:05:14,876 Speaker 5: plus one became some of the first m seeds to 89 00:05:14,876 --> 00:05:18,276 Speaker 5: bring hip hop to the mainstream when they took center 90 00:05:18,356 --> 00:05:20,476 Speaker 5: stage on Saturday Night Live. 91 00:05:20,716 --> 00:05:22,996 Speaker 7: The next Group are among the best street rappers in 92 00:05:23,036 --> 00:05:23,516 Speaker 7: the country. 93 00:05:23,596 --> 00:05:25,876 Speaker 4: Please welcome my friends from the Bronx, the Funky Four 94 00:05:25,956 --> 00:05:26,796 Speaker 4: plus one more. 95 00:05:27,516 --> 00:05:31,636 Speaker 5: That night should have submitised SHOT's legacy, but it didn't. Instead, 96 00:05:32,236 --> 00:05:33,836 Speaker 5: it led to her group's downfall. 97 00:05:34,236 --> 00:05:36,436 Speaker 4: They wouldn't talk to me, They didn't want to say 98 00:05:36,436 --> 00:05:39,956 Speaker 4: anything to me. They was like, really fall back. I 99 00:05:39,956 --> 00:05:44,276 Speaker 4: mean there was really no conversation, but like, why would 100 00:05:44,316 --> 00:05:45,716 Speaker 4: you do that? Shot Rock? You know? 101 00:05:48,316 --> 00:05:51,276 Speaker 5: And the reason why Shyd's story is really where all 102 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:52,556 Speaker 5: these double standards started. 103 00:05:54,516 --> 00:05:56,956 Speaker 7: I'm Rodney Carmarchael, I'm Sidney Madden and. 104 00:05:56,956 --> 00:06:00,316 Speaker 5: From NPR Music. This is louder than the riot. 105 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:03,356 Speaker 3: Where we confront the double standard does become the standard. 106 00:06:04,316 --> 00:06:07,396 Speaker 5: On every episode this season, we tackle one unwritten rule 107 00:06:07,396 --> 00:06:10,676 Speaker 5: of hip hop that affects the most marginalized among us 108 00:06:10,716 --> 00:06:14,036 Speaker 5: and holds the entire culture back and one then. 109 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:16,356 Speaker 3: A new generation a rap refuses to. 110 00:06:16,316 --> 00:06:21,116 Speaker 5: Stand for On this episode, breaking down legacy, who gets 111 00:06:21,156 --> 00:06:23,436 Speaker 5: to leave one in hip hop and who gets. 112 00:06:23,316 --> 00:06:26,716 Speaker 3: Left out from her rap crew, rejecting her to a 113 00:06:26,756 --> 00:06:30,236 Speaker 3: twenty five year legal battle mc shot rock takes us 114 00:06:30,276 --> 00:06:35,316 Speaker 3: through her fight to be remembered. Rule number two, Baby girl, 115 00:06:35,716 --> 00:06:37,476 Speaker 3: your only funky is your last cut? 116 00:06:52,956 --> 00:06:56,076 Speaker 5: All right? Said, I've been dying to ask you this. Oh, Mike, 117 00:06:56,476 --> 00:06:58,556 Speaker 5: who is your top five dead or lie? 118 00:06:59,316 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 3: That's mad hard But okay, I mean for me, Missy's 119 00:07:06,436 --> 00:07:08,516 Speaker 3: on there, Kendrick's on. 120 00:07:08,556 --> 00:07:10,916 Speaker 7: There, Big is on there. 121 00:07:12,556 --> 00:07:14,876 Speaker 3: But you know what, you know what always seems so 122 00:07:15,116 --> 00:07:18,276 Speaker 3: unfair about this question to me? It makes me think 123 00:07:18,276 --> 00:07:22,076 Speaker 3: about all the biases that go into these lists, Like, 124 00:07:22,956 --> 00:07:25,076 Speaker 3: you know, I know, of course everyone has their. 125 00:07:25,036 --> 00:07:27,716 Speaker 5: Own taste, but you're saying it feels like there's something 126 00:07:27,716 --> 00:07:29,596 Speaker 5: more than tastes reflected in these lists. 127 00:07:29,676 --> 00:07:33,636 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, it's implicit bias that's used as a way 128 00:07:33,636 --> 00:07:35,716 Speaker 3: to cover up the fact that the people making the 129 00:07:35,796 --> 00:07:40,676 Speaker 3: lists think that men are just overall better at rapping. 130 00:07:41,476 --> 00:07:43,196 Speaker 3: And if there are any women on the list, it's 131 00:07:43,236 --> 00:07:46,196 Speaker 3: usually just one token one, you know, and it's always 132 00:07:46,196 --> 00:07:48,316 Speaker 3: the same usual suspects. 133 00:07:47,836 --> 00:07:50,476 Speaker 5: Lauren, Missy, cam. 134 00:07:50,556 --> 00:07:54,516 Speaker 3: Nikki exactly, But what about Jean Gray or Azalea or 135 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:58,516 Speaker 3: Rhapsoy or Megan. And that's why reimagining the cannon of 136 00:07:58,596 --> 00:08:00,836 Speaker 3: the Greatest mcs takes real work. 137 00:08:01,796 --> 00:08:03,916 Speaker 7: We talk to somebody who's doing exactly that. 138 00:08:04,356 --> 00:08:07,996 Speaker 11: When you're thinking about carving out history and the people 139 00:08:08,036 --> 00:08:11,756 Speaker 11: who are in power, it's men, and men get to 140 00:08:12,356 --> 00:08:15,516 Speaker 11: tell these tall tales basically about what they did, and 141 00:08:15,596 --> 00:08:19,116 Speaker 11: men get to create history for other people as well. 142 00:08:19,436 --> 00:08:23,036 Speaker 3: That's Clover Hope, a long time hip hop journalist whose 143 00:08:23,036 --> 00:08:26,276 Speaker 3: bylines range from Double xl and The Source to The 144 00:08:26,276 --> 00:08:27,636 Speaker 3: New York Times in Vogue. 145 00:08:27,756 --> 00:08:30,716 Speaker 5: But even as a revere critic Clovid, Miss Shahrock story 146 00:08:30,876 --> 00:08:31,756 Speaker 5: was brand new to her. 147 00:08:32,276 --> 00:08:36,156 Speaker 11: I certainly even as a hip hop had who was 148 00:08:36,236 --> 00:08:41,956 Speaker 11: writing about it for like, since I was twenty and 149 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:46,596 Speaker 11: in it, since I was like thirteen, Like, I didn't 150 00:08:46,636 --> 00:08:49,436 Speaker 11: know a lot of these stories about the young girls 151 00:08:49,476 --> 00:08:52,636 Speaker 11: who were part of creating this culture. I knew the 152 00:08:52,756 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 11: date of hip hop being created and the names of 153 00:08:58,676 --> 00:09:02,196 Speaker 11: some of the early you know, like Grandmaster Flash, and 154 00:09:02,276 --> 00:09:03,156 Speaker 11: I didn't know her name. 155 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:06,796 Speaker 5: That was a big motivation for Clover to write The 156 00:09:06,836 --> 00:09:10,796 Speaker 5: Motherlwe one hundred plus women who made Hipbob. It's like 157 00:09:10,836 --> 00:09:13,716 Speaker 5: a reimagined Kennon that finally puts women front and center. 158 00:09:14,436 --> 00:09:17,196 Speaker 3: Shahrack is one of the first profiles in the Motherland. 159 00:09:17,796 --> 00:09:21,716 Speaker 3: Clover writes that Shaw is considered, quote, the first prominent 160 00:09:21,756 --> 00:09:25,836 Speaker 3: female mc clover says she wanted readers to know Shah's 161 00:09:25,876 --> 00:09:29,316 Speaker 3: story because it's been hidden for so long. And that's 162 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:32,956 Speaker 3: the case for many rappers, but for Shah, the reasons 163 00:09:32,956 --> 00:09:36,236 Speaker 3: behind that erasure reveal how bias is built into the 164 00:09:36,236 --> 00:09:37,476 Speaker 3: foundations of hip hop. 165 00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:40,476 Speaker 11: I wrote a line in Theyer that I always go 166 00:09:40,596 --> 00:09:44,396 Speaker 11: back to, which is that history is what a dominant 167 00:09:44,396 --> 00:09:45,076 Speaker 11: group decides. 168 00:09:45,076 --> 00:09:48,636 Speaker 3: This fact, Shah herself is a living testament of. 169 00:09:48,636 --> 00:09:52,356 Speaker 4: This history has been changed over the years, and I 170 00:09:52,436 --> 00:09:55,796 Speaker 4: see it in hip hop culture, but I'm not one 171 00:09:55,916 --> 00:09:57,196 Speaker 4: to allow that to happen. 172 00:09:58,396 --> 00:10:00,556 Speaker 5: When we called up Shah, she was sitting at a 173 00:10:00,636 --> 00:10:03,236 Speaker 5: kitchen table in Texas. It's a long way from the 174 00:10:03,276 --> 00:10:06,436 Speaker 5: Bronx where she got a start, and back then, Sha 175 00:10:06,636 --> 00:10:09,356 Speaker 5: wasn't thinking about legacy. She was focused on how having 176 00:10:09,396 --> 00:10:13,076 Speaker 5: fun outside her corner of the Bronx was giving birth 177 00:10:13,116 --> 00:10:16,756 Speaker 5: to hip hop. And as a teenager she discovered breakdancing. 178 00:10:17,356 --> 00:10:20,996 Speaker 5: She rocked the oversize sweatshirts and lee jeans. She was 179 00:10:21,036 --> 00:10:21,916 Speaker 5: becoming a b girl. 180 00:10:22,556 --> 00:10:26,236 Speaker 4: The first person that I saw breakdance was friends of mine, 181 00:10:26,356 --> 00:10:29,556 Speaker 4: you know that had went to junior high school with me. 182 00:10:30,036 --> 00:10:32,116 Speaker 4: You know, they taught me how to break dance. They 183 00:10:32,116 --> 00:10:34,836 Speaker 4: taught me what it was to you know, up rock, 184 00:10:35,156 --> 00:10:37,236 Speaker 4: what it was to you know, just hit the beats, 185 00:10:37,276 --> 00:10:39,396 Speaker 4: you know, whenever you hear that certain break beats. 186 00:10:39,516 --> 00:10:43,036 Speaker 5: Shot traveled all over the Bronx, every part Jam, every 187 00:10:43,076 --> 00:10:46,196 Speaker 5: house party, anywhere DJ's was spending breakbeats. 188 00:10:46,836 --> 00:10:49,676 Speaker 4: The circles was always male dominated when it came to 189 00:10:49,956 --> 00:10:53,316 Speaker 4: be boys, and to me, you know, as a b girl, 190 00:10:53,436 --> 00:10:55,756 Speaker 4: I was sort of like a tomboy, you know, of 191 00:10:55,796 --> 00:10:59,316 Speaker 4: growing up and so you know when you've seen it, 192 00:10:59,436 --> 00:11:02,356 Speaker 4: I mean it's just like a feeling that you knew 193 00:11:02,356 --> 00:11:03,596 Speaker 4: that you had to be a part of. 194 00:11:03,796 --> 00:11:06,196 Speaker 5: Yeah, something big was happening in the Bronx and b 195 00:11:06,396 --> 00:11:08,716 Speaker 5: girling that was SHOT's way in, you. 196 00:11:08,716 --> 00:11:11,756 Speaker 4: Know, gave you like a feeling like you I mean, 197 00:11:11,796 --> 00:11:14,236 Speaker 4: like you could you could just like take on the world, 198 00:11:14,356 --> 00:11:15,956 Speaker 4: you know, because it was I don't know, it was 199 00:11:15,996 --> 00:11:18,676 Speaker 4: just like a crazy feeling where it was like it 200 00:11:18,836 --> 00:11:21,756 Speaker 4: just empowered you as a woman. I know it did 201 00:11:21,836 --> 00:11:23,756 Speaker 4: for me as a young teenager, and I'm quite sure 202 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:25,636 Speaker 4: it did it, you know, for you know, the young 203 00:11:25,676 --> 00:11:26,956 Speaker 4: guys that was out there at the time. 204 00:11:27,836 --> 00:11:31,356 Speaker 3: At the time, she'd also been zabbling in poetry, but 205 00:11:31,436 --> 00:11:33,996 Speaker 3: se I wanted to do something bigger with it. She 206 00:11:34,116 --> 00:11:37,756 Speaker 3: wanted to rap and in show's day being a rapper 207 00:11:37,876 --> 00:11:41,356 Speaker 3: and being part of a crew. One day, Shall was 208 00:11:41,436 --> 00:11:43,396 Speaker 3: stopped by a young man passing out flyers. 209 00:11:43,716 --> 00:11:47,276 Speaker 4: He said, listen, you know we're having an audition. Would 210 00:11:47,316 --> 00:11:50,076 Speaker 4: you want to come in audition for MC? I saysue, now, 211 00:11:50,236 --> 00:11:50,516 Speaker 4: why not? 212 00:11:50,916 --> 00:11:53,316 Speaker 5: Sean had to take a bus uptown to the basement 213 00:11:53,396 --> 00:11:55,716 Speaker 5: of a three story house where a dude named DJ 214 00:11:55,876 --> 00:11:59,756 Speaker 5: Breakout and a manager named Jazzy D were conducting the audition. 215 00:12:00,476 --> 00:12:02,916 Speaker 5: On the bus ride there, she rode up first rap 216 00:12:02,996 --> 00:12:06,516 Speaker 5: ever and recited it over and over, and then, standing 217 00:12:06,556 --> 00:12:13,476 Speaker 5: in front of the manager, Shahrock went in, I'm. 218 00:12:13,316 --> 00:12:15,916 Speaker 4: Showing rock and I can't be stopped for all the 219 00:12:15,956 --> 00:12:18,156 Speaker 4: fly guys who want to hit the top. I could 220 00:12:18,196 --> 00:12:20,436 Speaker 4: do it for the ones that are strong, and I 221 00:12:20,436 --> 00:12:22,356 Speaker 4: could do it for the ones that are right or wrong. 222 00:12:22,636 --> 00:12:25,236 Speaker 4: But I'm listed on the column that's classified, and I 223 00:12:25,236 --> 00:12:28,756 Speaker 4: could be your nurse, and I'm qualified to talk about respect. 224 00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:32,196 Speaker 4: I won't neglect my strategy. It's for you to see, 225 00:12:32,276 --> 00:12:35,116 Speaker 4: so don't turn away by what I say because I'm 226 00:12:35,156 --> 00:12:38,676 Speaker 4: on I'm bed when I'm talking to you, and the 227 00:12:38,796 --> 00:12:40,596 Speaker 4: manager loved me, you know, he was like. 228 00:12:42,196 --> 00:12:42,396 Speaker 3: Yo. 229 00:12:43,196 --> 00:12:45,916 Speaker 5: She spit fired the crew like that. She rocked around 230 00:12:46,036 --> 00:12:49,596 Speaker 5: so much they named a shot Rock right on the spot. 231 00:12:49,876 --> 00:12:52,636 Speaker 3: Shah officially joined up with the Funky Four in nineteen 232 00:12:52,676 --> 00:12:55,436 Speaker 3: seventy eight. She was the only girl in the crew 233 00:12:55,956 --> 00:12:57,916 Speaker 3: and her presence was felt immediately. 234 00:12:58,556 --> 00:13:03,036 Speaker 5: What did your male counterparts think of your early raps? 235 00:13:03,556 --> 00:13:06,556 Speaker 4: I was always a secret weapon. A lot of other 236 00:13:06,796 --> 00:13:11,236 Speaker 4: groups were scrambling trying to find female mcs that can 237 00:13:11,276 --> 00:13:13,116 Speaker 4: be able to deal with Shahrock. 238 00:13:13,476 --> 00:13:18,076 Speaker 12: There was really no competition during that time, especially for Shahrack. 239 00:13:18,596 --> 00:13:22,476 Speaker 5: That's Raheem, another original member of the Foky Four. Raheem 240 00:13:22,516 --> 00:13:25,796 Speaker 5: auditioned for the group after Shah had already joined, and 241 00:13:25,796 --> 00:13:28,236 Speaker 5: with Raheem joining the crew, the Fanky four were locked in. 242 00:13:28,396 --> 00:13:32,956 Speaker 5: It was KK Rockwell Keith, Keith, Raheem and MC Shahrock. 243 00:13:33,876 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 5: Raheem says he always looked at Shahrock like a sister 244 00:13:37,116 --> 00:13:40,956 Speaker 5: and from day one he respected a technique, her style. 245 00:13:41,796 --> 00:13:44,996 Speaker 1: Her poise, her delivery. 246 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:49,996 Speaker 12: Knew immediately when you heard her, as soon as you 247 00:13:50,116 --> 00:13:54,676 Speaker 12: heard and this is Shahrock, and she made sure that 248 00:13:55,596 --> 00:14:00,356 Speaker 12: you knew, whether you were a man or a woman, 249 00:14:00,916 --> 00:14:04,676 Speaker 12: if you were an MC, that you you couldn't get 250 00:14:04,676 --> 00:14:05,116 Speaker 12: with him. 251 00:14:05,396 --> 00:14:08,396 Speaker 5: Yeah, but peat this. He also says she served a 252 00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:11,556 Speaker 5: very speciific purpose to the group with. 253 00:14:11,556 --> 00:14:12,596 Speaker 1: A female. 254 00:14:13,756 --> 00:14:14,356 Speaker 12: In the group. 255 00:14:15,436 --> 00:14:20,316 Speaker 4: You know, obviously that's to calm the wolves down. 256 00:14:20,476 --> 00:14:25,276 Speaker 12: And we needed that during that time period because if 257 00:14:25,316 --> 00:14:29,236 Speaker 12: we didn't keep the audience suits that we entertained in 258 00:14:29,356 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 12: the Bronx during the seventies, there was gonna be a problem. 259 00:14:34,436 --> 00:14:36,476 Speaker 12: There was gonna be a shootout, there was gonna be 260 00:14:36,596 --> 00:14:37,996 Speaker 12: a stabbing, somebody was. 261 00:14:37,956 --> 00:14:38,716 Speaker 4: Gonna get robbed. 262 00:14:39,556 --> 00:14:42,236 Speaker 5: Yeah. The Bronx was hip hop's birthplace for a reason. 263 00:14:42,716 --> 00:14:46,156 Speaker 5: The earliest rap crews originated from gang culture and sometimes 264 00:14:46,556 --> 00:14:48,436 Speaker 5: those tithes bled over into the party. 265 00:14:48,956 --> 00:14:51,356 Speaker 3: So basically, se I was seen as a dope MC, 266 00:14:52,076 --> 00:14:55,156 Speaker 3: but also seen as a token even by members of 267 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:57,676 Speaker 3: her own group. And that was really spelled out when 268 00:14:57,676 --> 00:15:00,556 Speaker 3: the group had some lineup changes and rebranded as the 269 00:15:00,556 --> 00:15:03,596 Speaker 3: Funky four plus one more and guess who is the 270 00:15:03,596 --> 00:15:07,156 Speaker 3: plus one? So why did they call it Funky four 271 00:15:07,236 --> 00:15:08,956 Speaker 3: plus one instead of Funky five? 272 00:15:09,276 --> 00:15:10,676 Speaker 7: What was the plus one? 273 00:15:10,916 --> 00:15:14,476 Speaker 3: Because that seemed to differentiate you as you know, as 274 00:15:14,516 --> 00:15:16,396 Speaker 3: being like the woman on there. 275 00:15:16,436 --> 00:15:18,356 Speaker 4: I think the reason why my manager did do it 276 00:15:18,396 --> 00:15:21,276 Speaker 4: is because, you know, he didn't want to have like 277 00:15:21,356 --> 00:15:25,076 Speaker 4: the Furious five or the Order the Furiest or the 278 00:15:25,076 --> 00:15:27,516 Speaker 4: Funky five or whatever. He just wanted, you know, me 279 00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:30,396 Speaker 4: to be stand out. So when they say the plus one, 280 00:15:30,796 --> 00:15:32,876 Speaker 4: you know, it's like, Okay, we have the Funky four, 281 00:15:33,036 --> 00:15:35,836 Speaker 4: but we got somebody else. The plus one. 282 00:15:35,836 --> 00:15:39,116 Speaker 5: Plus one could mean you're the most important member, but 283 00:15:39,196 --> 00:15:41,876 Speaker 5: it could also mean you a footnote. But it was 284 00:15:41,916 --> 00:15:44,836 Speaker 5: shy Rock whose innovations helped the Funky Four stand out 285 00:15:45,276 --> 00:15:48,236 Speaker 5: and lay the foundation for where rap was going next. 286 00:15:48,676 --> 00:15:51,716 Speaker 5: You gotta understand rap. It had been around for a minute, 287 00:15:51,796 --> 00:15:54,876 Speaker 5: but still sounded damn there prehistoric at the time. 288 00:15:55,116 --> 00:15:57,916 Speaker 4: Seventy eight was the critical and the most important year 289 00:15:58,036 --> 00:16:01,436 Speaker 4: of MC's within hip hop culture because that was the 290 00:16:01,556 --> 00:16:06,156 Speaker 4: year that the MC's set the example of how you 291 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:10,796 Speaker 4: may see an MC ronniey today because the MC's were 292 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:14,676 Speaker 4: not rhyming like that. They were not rhyming in the format. 293 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:14,516 Speaker 1: You know. 294 00:16:14,636 --> 00:16:18,156 Speaker 4: And I was a part of the MC's that made 295 00:16:18,396 --> 00:16:23,996 Speaker 4: that format for future mcs. And I should say that 296 00:16:24,036 --> 00:16:27,276 Speaker 4: I was the female MC that helped make that format 297 00:16:27,356 --> 00:16:28,716 Speaker 4: for the future MCS. 298 00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:31,796 Speaker 3: People were bumping these tapes, listening to the blue brand 299 00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:35,436 Speaker 3: of rap. It must have been like stumbling upon a 300 00:16:35,436 --> 00:16:39,316 Speaker 3: new language, one that was made just for you, discovering 301 00:16:39,316 --> 00:16:43,156 Speaker 3: new pathways for sound, with every break being sixteen bar verse. 302 00:16:43,636 --> 00:16:46,796 Speaker 3: These originators were laying down a new framework for music. 303 00:16:47,596 --> 00:16:51,116 Speaker 3: The possibilities were endless, and shot play with all of them. 304 00:16:51,396 --> 00:16:55,436 Speaker 4: My manager he went and found out how to buy 305 00:16:55,476 --> 00:16:58,396 Speaker 4: this this instrument, and it was called the Echo chain. 306 00:16:59,196 --> 00:17:02,596 Speaker 4: And so whenever I used to say a rhyme or 307 00:17:02,636 --> 00:17:05,916 Speaker 4: I would say, like shah rock rock, rock, rock rock, 308 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:09,796 Speaker 4: you put the echo on it rock. Or when I 309 00:17:09,796 --> 00:17:13,396 Speaker 4: don't say yes yes y'all, yes, yaw yes, yaw yes, 310 00:17:13,476 --> 00:17:18,236 Speaker 4: yaw yes y'all, it would repeat every last word of. 311 00:17:18,116 --> 00:17:20,836 Speaker 8: My run that I would say, Now, this is the 312 00:17:20,836 --> 00:17:24,196 Speaker 8: way we wanted none And at the same time, that's 313 00:17:24,236 --> 00:17:27,156 Speaker 8: with your mind. It's the same identical beat one time 314 00:17:27,516 --> 00:17:28,596 Speaker 8: as we possessed. 315 00:17:28,276 --> 00:17:29,716 Speaker 4: To be gonna make you want to run. And I 316 00:17:29,756 --> 00:17:34,396 Speaker 4: became so synonymous with the New York City on cassette 317 00:17:34,436 --> 00:17:37,076 Speaker 4: tapes or when I was rhyming in the echo, changing 318 00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:38,916 Speaker 4: people was like Okay, let me run out and get 319 00:17:38,916 --> 00:17:39,636 Speaker 4: this echo chain. 320 00:17:40,716 --> 00:17:42,876 Speaker 5: People all throughout the city called win or what y'all 321 00:17:42,996 --> 00:17:45,956 Speaker 5: was doing, even guys who would eventually pop up all 322 00:17:45,956 --> 00:17:48,156 Speaker 5: over those all time goat lists. 323 00:17:48,316 --> 00:17:50,956 Speaker 13: So I heard a funky four plus one. I heard that, 324 00:17:51,556 --> 00:17:53,956 Speaker 13: and then on that record was this girl. 325 00:17:54,356 --> 00:17:57,796 Speaker 5: Now that's DMC of Run DMC, one of the most 326 00:17:57,796 --> 00:17:59,636 Speaker 5: influential rap groups of all time. 327 00:17:59,836 --> 00:18:03,676 Speaker 13: And since it was a girl, the voice was so distinctive, 328 00:18:04,956 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 13: but it sounded stronger, more grounded, more versatile, more unique, 329 00:18:16,156 --> 00:18:19,596 Speaker 13: more impressive than all of the dudes that. 330 00:18:19,596 --> 00:18:21,196 Speaker 1: I had heard up to that point. 331 00:18:22,076 --> 00:18:23,916 Speaker 13: It was just a different energy and they were all 332 00:18:23,916 --> 00:18:25,076 Speaker 13: switching off and wrapping. 333 00:18:25,596 --> 00:18:27,436 Speaker 1: But when it got to the part where they. 334 00:18:27,396 --> 00:18:31,756 Speaker 13: Said, shy rock, don't stop, just turn on your mic 335 00:18:31,836 --> 00:18:32,796 Speaker 13: and you're ready to rock. 336 00:18:32,916 --> 00:18:35,436 Speaker 1: And this person, I don't want to just see a girl. 337 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:38,876 Speaker 13: This person just went when the sun don't shine, the 338 00:18:38,996 --> 00:18:41,836 Speaker 13: rain don't stop. But we got sounded caught punk rocket, 339 00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:44,076 Speaker 13: Just get up out the chaders, I have fuck, We're 340 00:18:44,196 --> 00:18:44,716 Speaker 13: to DJA. 341 00:18:52,116 --> 00:18:53,956 Speaker 1: I heard a rhyming over. 342 00:18:55,316 --> 00:18:58,636 Speaker 13: The break beat seven minutes of funk, and it was 343 00:18:58,956 --> 00:19:01,236 Speaker 13: it was just the craziest thing that ever heard. And 344 00:19:01,276 --> 00:19:03,236 Speaker 13: I heard a lot of people do it, but there 345 00:19:03,316 --> 00:19:07,716 Speaker 13: was something about the way Shahrock delivered her rhymes that 346 00:19:07,916 --> 00:19:11,556 Speaker 13: was just the pro to type to be. She was 347 00:19:11,596 --> 00:19:15,196 Speaker 13: already dominant, the echo chamber just made her invincible. 348 00:19:15,756 --> 00:19:19,076 Speaker 3: Shaw's influence can be heard all over those run DMC records, 349 00:19:19,716 --> 00:19:22,636 Speaker 3: like Run's House from their album Tougher Than Lother. 350 00:19:23,396 --> 00:19:23,796 Speaker 5: I don't know. 351 00:19:24,236 --> 00:19:34,996 Speaker 10: DMCs the most rock, So shah Rack has real influence 352 00:19:35,036 --> 00:19:36,956 Speaker 10: on the art and science of MC. 353 00:19:38,036 --> 00:19:40,116 Speaker 3: But as the Funky four plus one more we're about 354 00:19:40,156 --> 00:19:42,836 Speaker 3: to get their big break and introduce hip hop to 355 00:19:42,876 --> 00:19:45,796 Speaker 3: the rest of America, she was about to see how 356 00:19:45,836 --> 00:19:48,516 Speaker 3: being that plus one could be a minus. 357 00:20:10,356 --> 00:20:13,756 Speaker 4: By eighty we were signed to sugar Hill Records, you know, 358 00:20:13,796 --> 00:20:16,436 Speaker 4: in June of eighty And with that said, you know, 359 00:20:16,556 --> 00:20:20,876 Speaker 4: our first song that we put out with sugar Hill 360 00:20:20,916 --> 00:20:23,156 Speaker 4: Records would call That's to Join. 361 00:20:28,436 --> 00:20:28,596 Speaker 11: Rock. 362 00:20:30,476 --> 00:20:33,676 Speaker 5: So Sha Rock was the Funky four plus one secret weapon, 363 00:20:34,196 --> 00:20:36,756 Speaker 5: and when sugar Hill Records got hipped to him, the 364 00:20:36,876 --> 00:20:40,676 Speaker 5: CEO of the label, Sylvia Robinson, latched onto Shatrock's talents 365 00:20:41,036 --> 00:20:41,956 Speaker 5: and her innocence. 366 00:20:42,796 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 4: I was seventeen going on eighteen. But the crazy thing 367 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:49,356 Speaker 4: about it is that my mother didn't even sign you know, 368 00:20:49,516 --> 00:20:53,556 Speaker 4: my my contract for me, my sister. She wasn't my 369 00:20:53,836 --> 00:20:58,116 Speaker 4: legal guardian, but she signed my contract for me, you know, 370 00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:01,636 Speaker 4: because I wanted to do it so bad. But yeah, 371 00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:04,516 Speaker 4: I was seventeen. I was seventeen at the time, seventeen 372 00:21:04,596 --> 00:21:06,556 Speaker 4: going on eighteen at the time that I signed to 373 00:21:06,596 --> 00:21:07,516 Speaker 4: sugar Hill Records. 374 00:21:07,676 --> 00:21:10,076 Speaker 5: Since Shaw was under age, she had a sister signed 375 00:21:10,396 --> 00:21:12,116 Speaker 5: and she didn't want a mom to talk her out 376 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:15,356 Speaker 5: of it. So wait a minute, was your sister signing? 377 00:21:15,476 --> 00:21:16,796 Speaker 5: Was that? Was that legal? 378 00:21:18,516 --> 00:21:21,276 Speaker 4: Nope, they didn't care. 379 00:21:21,876 --> 00:21:25,476 Speaker 3: Okay, of the strength of that's the joint. Sylvia Robinson 380 00:21:25,556 --> 00:21:28,196 Speaker 3: sent the group out on their first tour. They were 381 00:21:28,236 --> 00:21:30,276 Speaker 3: each promised to make five hundred dollars a show. 382 00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 4: What Silver Robinson did with this first sugar Hill tour 383 00:21:35,356 --> 00:21:38,276 Speaker 4: is that she wanted everybody you know that was under 384 00:21:38,276 --> 00:21:40,716 Speaker 4: her label at the time. She wanted to take us 385 00:21:40,756 --> 00:21:44,956 Speaker 4: on like this major tour around the world, you know, 386 00:21:45,196 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 4: to be able to, you know, let people see what 387 00:21:47,996 --> 00:21:51,156 Speaker 4: sugar Hill Records was doing. And so the idea was great. 388 00:21:51,236 --> 00:21:54,716 Speaker 4: I mean, we hit every major city that you could imagine, 389 00:21:55,236 --> 00:21:58,956 Speaker 4: every arena, every place that we played at was sold out. 390 00:21:59,156 --> 00:22:02,956 Speaker 4: When you going to places like Wisconsin. You go into 391 00:22:02,996 --> 00:22:07,036 Speaker 4: places like Chicago, Florida, you know, places that we never 392 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:11,036 Speaker 4: even been before, excepted you know, rapped within hip hop. 393 00:22:11,116 --> 00:22:13,396 Speaker 4: Like it was like like it was something new to them. 394 00:22:13,396 --> 00:22:16,556 Speaker 4: They were going crazy. You know, It's like they treated 395 00:22:16,636 --> 00:22:19,676 Speaker 4: us like we were like the Jacksons. I was like, listen, 396 00:22:20,076 --> 00:22:22,516 Speaker 4: you know what we made it. People are loving what 397 00:22:22,556 --> 00:22:24,476 Speaker 4: we do, something that we created. 398 00:22:25,356 --> 00:22:27,476 Speaker 3: And as the tour was coming to a close, the 399 00:22:27,516 --> 00:22:30,796 Speaker 3: Funky Four plus one got another call from Sylvia Robinson. 400 00:22:30,876 --> 00:22:32,996 Speaker 4: Miss Robinson called us out, you know, on to it 401 00:22:33,076 --> 00:22:38,996 Speaker 4: and say Saturday Night Live, want y'all to come and perform. 402 00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:42,236 Speaker 3: Debbie Harriet Blondie was set to host and perform on 403 00:22:42,236 --> 00:22:45,556 Speaker 3: the show and she wanted to feature a special guest, and. 404 00:22:45,556 --> 00:22:48,076 Speaker 4: We were told the reason why she wanted us as 405 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:51,196 Speaker 4: opposed to Grandmaster Flash the Furious five of the sugar 406 00:22:51,236 --> 00:22:54,916 Speaker 4: Hill Game is because they had a female and the 407 00:22:54,996 --> 00:22:57,596 Speaker 4: fact that we were young and innocent. 408 00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:01,236 Speaker 5: Looking now, this was the secret weapon in action. Having 409 00:23:01,276 --> 00:23:03,436 Speaker 5: shot in the group was opening the door for the 410 00:23:03,436 --> 00:23:06,716 Speaker 5: Funky Four. But if being sugar Hills first Lady was 411 00:23:06,716 --> 00:23:09,716 Speaker 5: paying off for her group, it was low keep hissing 412 00:23:09,756 --> 00:23:10,956 Speaker 5: off the labels of the acts. 413 00:23:11,316 --> 00:23:15,636 Speaker 4: Everybody in their mamas was mad with us on that 414 00:23:15,716 --> 00:23:19,036 Speaker 4: tour of US groups were mad. The other groups was mad. 415 00:23:19,156 --> 00:23:24,756 Speaker 4: They was furious because they were not the ones that 416 00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:27,996 Speaker 4: got chosen to peer on the Saturday nine nine. 417 00:23:28,276 --> 00:23:30,596 Speaker 5: That's why when the tour ended and the Tour US 418 00:23:30,596 --> 00:23:32,516 Speaker 5: pulled up the Sugar Hills parking lot. 419 00:23:32,556 --> 00:23:35,756 Speaker 4: Fights broke out. You know, it just went crazy and 420 00:23:35,836 --> 00:23:36,716 Speaker 4: left after that. 421 00:23:37,196 --> 00:23:40,356 Speaker 3: Yep, the Funky four plus one and the Furious Five 422 00:23:40,476 --> 00:23:42,236 Speaker 3: three hands you. 423 00:23:42,196 --> 00:23:46,956 Speaker 5: Remember that fight, Yeah, yep, vividly. By this time, Raheem 424 00:23:47,036 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 5: had left the Funky four plus one and joined their rivals, 425 00:23:50,316 --> 00:23:53,156 Speaker 5: the Furious Five. He was in the parking lot that 426 00:23:53,276 --> 00:23:55,436 Speaker 5: day too, just like shall I. 427 00:23:55,436 --> 00:23:59,036 Speaker 12: Had nothing to do with the beef between the Funky 428 00:23:59,116 --> 00:24:02,996 Speaker 12: four plus one and the Furious Five. The person from 429 00:24:03,036 --> 00:24:07,036 Speaker 12: the Furious Five who was physically aggressive towards the Funky 430 00:24:07,116 --> 00:24:10,116 Speaker 12: four plus one was Cowboy thrust at Beach. 431 00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:13,396 Speaker 5: Do you remember what Cowboy said in the moment? How 432 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:14,236 Speaker 5: did he spark it off? 433 00:24:14,836 --> 00:24:16,876 Speaker 1: I don't remember what was said. 434 00:24:16,996 --> 00:24:20,436 Speaker 12: I just remember he went after a little Rodney Sea 435 00:24:20,516 --> 00:24:23,956 Speaker 12: physically and uh he you know, punched him in the 436 00:24:23,996 --> 00:24:25,316 Speaker 12: head or the face or up. 437 00:24:27,236 --> 00:24:29,636 Speaker 4: It's so much stuff happened within those last couple of 438 00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:32,876 Speaker 4: days as far as animosity, you know, and and vice 439 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:35,396 Speaker 4: and arguments and all that stuff that went down. And 440 00:24:35,436 --> 00:24:37,436 Speaker 4: so it came to head, you know, in the parking 441 00:24:37,436 --> 00:24:39,516 Speaker 4: lot of Sugar Records, and. 442 00:24:39,516 --> 00:24:41,676 Speaker 3: You might be thinking, what does this have to do 443 00:24:41,716 --> 00:24:48,436 Speaker 3: with Shah, Well, nothing and everything to all the other groups. 444 00:24:48,916 --> 00:24:51,756 Speaker 3: She wasn't just seen his competition. She was now a 445 00:24:51,796 --> 00:24:55,916 Speaker 3: threat just by being there. But the Funky Four plus 446 00:24:55,956 --> 00:24:59,236 Speaker 3: one More couldn't dwell on that rap beef because a 447 00:24:59,276 --> 00:25:03,796 Speaker 3: few days later, their big night on SNL arrived. Take 448 00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:06,276 Speaker 3: us back to like walking to that studio for the 449 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:07,916 Speaker 3: first time, What did it look like? 450 00:25:08,076 --> 00:25:08,996 Speaker 7: What did it feel like? 451 00:25:09,356 --> 00:25:14,116 Speaker 4: It was like, Okay, we're gonna be on TV. We 452 00:25:14,276 --> 00:25:18,876 Speaker 4: still don't know the impact of being the first authentic 453 00:25:18,956 --> 00:25:21,796 Speaker 4: hip hop group to ever, you know, be on TV. 454 00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:24,556 Speaker 4: All we know is that you're gonna see us on 455 00:25:24,596 --> 00:25:25,556 Speaker 4: TV and that's it. 456 00:25:26,876 --> 00:25:28,876 Speaker 5: And while the Funky Four sat in the green room 457 00:25:28,916 --> 00:25:32,196 Speaker 5: waiting for their performance, they watched the show live. The 458 00:25:32,276 --> 00:25:37,276 Speaker 5: Valentine's Day special It's Essenel's newest black cast member, Eddie Murphy, 459 00:25:37,636 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 5: popped out in a cupit costume during Debbie Harry's monologs 460 00:25:42,836 --> 00:25:46,556 Speaker 5: They Love Me. Towards the end of the show, Debbie 461 00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:48,516 Speaker 5: Harry introduces the Funky Four. 462 00:25:48,716 --> 00:25:51,516 Speaker 4: What she said was, I got the best street rapper, 463 00:25:51,596 --> 00:25:53,076 Speaker 4: best street up from the country. 464 00:25:53,116 --> 00:25:55,436 Speaker 3: Please welcome my friends from the Bronx, the Funky Four 465 00:25:55,476 --> 00:25:56,236 Speaker 3: plus one. 466 00:25:56,116 --> 00:26:01,316 Speaker 5: More on stage. You can see the cruise arms locked 467 00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:03,676 Speaker 5: around Shot rocking like she's in a cage or a 468 00:26:03,716 --> 00:26:07,156 Speaker 5: cocoon almost, and then the guys they roll off to 469 00:26:07,196 --> 00:26:10,756 Speaker 5: the left and right and feeling that start. Shots dressed 470 00:26:10,756 --> 00:26:13,316 Speaker 5: differently than the guys who got on type brooom card 471 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:18,236 Speaker 5: against the cane goes. She's rocking a side ponytail jeans, 472 00:26:18,276 --> 00:26:21,076 Speaker 5: stuffed in a white cowboy boots and a pink fly. 473 00:26:23,156 --> 00:26:27,436 Speaker 5: You standing side by side the Funky four plus one 474 00:26:27,916 --> 00:26:30,676 Speaker 5: kick off the smash hit, the shot weaves in and 475 00:26:30,756 --> 00:26:33,636 Speaker 5: out of the other versus perfectly wet. 476 00:26:36,836 --> 00:26:37,436 Speaker 14: You can call it. 477 00:26:37,956 --> 00:26:40,956 Speaker 5: We're doing We're gonna this. 478 00:26:51,436 --> 00:26:54,076 Speaker 13: You understanding, you're hearing the record, You're hearing the tapes 479 00:26:54,076 --> 00:26:55,956 Speaker 13: and stuff like that. And then you wake up and 480 00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:59,636 Speaker 13: somebody says, yo, they was on TV last night. That 481 00:27:00,076 --> 00:27:03,556 Speaker 13: was the life changing moment. So I can imagine that 482 00:27:03,716 --> 00:27:07,276 Speaker 13: the older folks seeing that, going Okay, what the hell 483 00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:07,556 Speaker 13: is this? 484 00:27:08,316 --> 00:27:10,116 Speaker 1: We're not sure, we don't hate it, and then there's 485 00:27:10,116 --> 00:27:13,436 Speaker 1: the people that just hated it. That's the number one 486 00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:16,276 Speaker 1: iconic moment in the hip hop This was. 487 00:27:16,276 --> 00:27:18,516 Speaker 3: One of the first times a hip hop group was 488 00:27:18,676 --> 00:27:22,716 Speaker 3: nationally televised. Esno was likely the biggest stage rap had 489 00:27:22,756 --> 00:27:26,236 Speaker 3: ever been on at that point. But DMC and all 490 00:27:26,276 --> 00:27:29,996 Speaker 3: the SNL viewers at home, they didn't realize that that night, 491 00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:31,956 Speaker 3: Sha was carrying her. 492 00:27:31,876 --> 00:27:32,636 Speaker 7: Own plus one. 493 00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:35,356 Speaker 4: I was pregnant at the time. I think that was 494 00:27:35,476 --> 00:27:39,596 Speaker 4: like about four or five six months pregnant something like that, 495 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:43,076 Speaker 4: and so I was like hurting. I was feeling kind 496 00:27:43,116 --> 00:27:46,116 Speaker 4: of crazy and all of that stuff. My stomach was hurting. 497 00:27:46,436 --> 00:27:49,516 Speaker 3: And listen, this is nothing like Rihanna doing her big 498 00:27:49,636 --> 00:27:52,356 Speaker 3: reveal of her baby bump at the Super Bowl. SA 499 00:27:52,556 --> 00:27:54,756 Speaker 3: was doing her best to try and hide her bump 500 00:27:55,196 --> 00:27:58,436 Speaker 3: and how she was feeling as she gave her best effort. 501 00:27:58,916 --> 00:28:02,796 Speaker 3: You could tell from the recording She's stiff and slow. 502 00:28:02,636 --> 00:28:04,916 Speaker 4: With her movements. That's why you would see I would 503 00:28:04,916 --> 00:28:07,876 Speaker 4: stay staying in a certain way, you know, and just 504 00:28:07,996 --> 00:28:11,036 Speaker 4: look forward, focus out, you know. And so I was like, 505 00:28:11,156 --> 00:28:13,476 Speaker 4: let me know, let me just get through this, you know, 506 00:28:13,716 --> 00:28:15,756 Speaker 4: and I'll tell them tomorrow. 507 00:28:16,116 --> 00:28:18,476 Speaker 3: This was the highest point of the group's career so far, 508 00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:20,196 Speaker 3: and she didn't want to blow it. 509 00:28:20,196 --> 00:28:25,116 Speaker 4: Because I just wanted to get through the television show. 510 00:28:25,916 --> 00:28:28,516 Speaker 4: I didn't want, you know, them to feel a certain 511 00:28:28,596 --> 00:28:31,476 Speaker 4: kind of way, you know, So I waited until the 512 00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:35,436 Speaker 4: next day, and I told them one by one. I 513 00:28:35,676 --> 00:28:38,396 Speaker 4: told Rodney because I was closer to him first. I 514 00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:40,556 Speaker 4: told him first, and of course he went and he 515 00:28:40,676 --> 00:28:43,436 Speaker 4: told the other guys, you know, within the group, and 516 00:28:44,676 --> 00:28:46,596 Speaker 4: it was like trickets. 517 00:28:46,636 --> 00:28:51,156 Speaker 5: After that, nobody in the group had shots back. 518 00:28:52,116 --> 00:28:54,876 Speaker 4: They was like, really fall back. I mean there was 519 00:28:54,956 --> 00:28:59,956 Speaker 4: really no conversation, but like, why would you do that? Shot? Rock, 520 00:29:00,076 --> 00:29:03,556 Speaker 4: you know, and then it was like they were distanced. 521 00:29:03,756 --> 00:29:06,436 Speaker 5: The way Sean tells it, the guys felt her pregnancy 522 00:29:06,516 --> 00:29:07,596 Speaker 5: would hold them all back. 523 00:29:08,396 --> 00:29:11,356 Speaker 4: They felt like it would hinder everything that we had 524 00:29:12,476 --> 00:29:16,196 Speaker 4: moving forward. Shack's pregnant, It's going to slow us down, 525 00:29:16,636 --> 00:29:18,276 Speaker 4: and so they were very upset. 526 00:29:18,236 --> 00:29:20,596 Speaker 5: Even though Raheem wasn't a member of the group anymore. 527 00:29:21,036 --> 00:29:22,756 Speaker 5: He says. He relates to how the rest of the 528 00:29:22,796 --> 00:29:25,396 Speaker 5: Funky Four reacted to Shah's pregnancy at the time. 529 00:29:25,996 --> 00:29:31,956 Speaker 12: They were concerned about their their livelihoods, you know, at 530 00:29:32,036 --> 00:29:36,276 Speaker 12: that time, and I could certainly understand that if I 531 00:29:36,436 --> 00:29:39,796 Speaker 12: were a member of their group at that time, I 532 00:29:39,956 --> 00:29:43,556 Speaker 12: probably would have voiced the same concern, or maybe not. 533 00:29:44,276 --> 00:29:46,556 Speaker 5: At this point, the other members of her crew were 534 00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:49,796 Speaker 5: treating Shad more like a liability than an asset. Her 535 00:29:49,876 --> 00:29:53,436 Speaker 5: pregnancy was clearly a problem in their eyes, so they were. 536 00:29:53,476 --> 00:29:57,156 Speaker 4: Very protected of them, and I think when it's all 537 00:29:57,236 --> 00:30:01,276 Speaker 4: said and done, they probably felt like, now if I 538 00:30:01,396 --> 00:30:05,756 Speaker 4: covered you, then you cover us, you know, make sure 539 00:30:05,796 --> 00:30:08,596 Speaker 4: that we're good, make sure that you know we ready 540 00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:11,916 Speaker 4: to you know, take the whole world bostone. 541 00:30:12,396 --> 00:30:13,876 Speaker 7: Like you betrayed them or something. 542 00:30:15,556 --> 00:30:20,596 Speaker 4: You could say that. You could say that, but do 543 00:30:20,676 --> 00:30:21,036 Speaker 4: you ever. 544 00:30:20,956 --> 00:30:23,716 Speaker 3: Think about the double standard of that, Like how you're 545 00:30:23,956 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 3: choosing to do something with your own body could be 546 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:28,476 Speaker 3: a betrayal to them, Like. 547 00:30:29,316 --> 00:30:33,476 Speaker 4: I didn't look at it at that time at the time, 548 00:30:33,596 --> 00:30:37,716 Speaker 4: you know, far as like betrayal. I kind of got it, 549 00:30:38,556 --> 00:30:42,636 Speaker 4: you know, because not the fact that I betrayed them, 550 00:30:42,716 --> 00:30:45,196 Speaker 4: but the fact that I loved hip hop so much 551 00:30:45,396 --> 00:30:49,356 Speaker 4: that I could have, you know, thought about you know, 552 00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:51,636 Speaker 4: there could have been other ways to you know, to 553 00:30:51,756 --> 00:30:53,956 Speaker 4: do it or other ways that I could have made 554 00:30:53,996 --> 00:30:56,596 Speaker 4: sure that that wasn't the right timing. That was a 555 00:30:56,676 --> 00:30:59,516 Speaker 4: decision that I made. I mean, it was upon me. 556 00:30:59,796 --> 00:31:03,316 Speaker 4: I wasn't gonna do anything else to terminate, you know, 557 00:31:03,956 --> 00:31:08,876 Speaker 4: the situation, and I just had to deal with it. 558 00:31:09,196 --> 00:31:12,636 Speaker 4: But after the pregnancy, that's when things went downhill for 559 00:31:12,716 --> 00:31:13,556 Speaker 4: the fucking Plus. 560 00:31:14,556 --> 00:31:17,436 Speaker 3: How did it feel to have, like, have such little 561 00:31:17,476 --> 00:31:20,476 Speaker 3: support from them, from your crew members, from Rodney and 562 00:31:20,516 --> 00:31:22,596 Speaker 3: everybody once you told them. 563 00:31:23,556 --> 00:31:26,636 Speaker 4: You know what, I've never really blamed them for, you know, 564 00:31:26,796 --> 00:31:28,956 Speaker 4: because I look at it like this. You know, we 565 00:31:29,036 --> 00:31:31,676 Speaker 4: were all young. We were in our teenagers, and so 566 00:31:31,836 --> 00:31:36,876 Speaker 4: where you expect for somebody, you know, maybe much older, 567 00:31:36,956 --> 00:31:39,756 Speaker 4: you know, to be understanding, I think that they were 568 00:31:39,796 --> 00:31:43,196 Speaker 4: dealing with their own feelings as well, especially being young. 569 00:31:43,916 --> 00:31:45,956 Speaker 3: So I gives the guys a lot of grace in hindsight, 570 00:31:46,956 --> 00:31:49,996 Speaker 3: maybe more than they even deserve. Because even if she 571 00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:53,716 Speaker 3: won't say it, what her group members did was messed up. 572 00:31:55,476 --> 00:31:58,196 Speaker 3: They iced her out, and things wouldn't ever be the 573 00:31:58,276 --> 00:32:02,756 Speaker 3: same after that. Shaw was scared too. She didn't know 574 00:32:02,756 --> 00:32:03,556 Speaker 3: where to go from here. 575 00:32:04,276 --> 00:32:06,116 Speaker 4: I felt like for me, I was at the height 576 00:32:06,356 --> 00:32:10,036 Speaker 4: of my career as well, you know, And I was 577 00:32:10,156 --> 00:32:13,276 Speaker 4: more so nervous, not because I didn't have to support 578 00:32:13,396 --> 00:32:16,356 Speaker 4: you know, my family, but so much nervous to know 579 00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:19,116 Speaker 4: that it would, you know, put a damper on me 580 00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:20,156 Speaker 4: moving forward. 581 00:32:20,796 --> 00:32:23,316 Speaker 5: Even though Shah was struggling to balance everything and get 582 00:32:23,436 --> 00:32:25,716 Speaker 5: right with the guys, the four K four plus one 583 00:32:25,836 --> 00:32:28,916 Speaker 5: was still up. That SNL performance had gone so well 584 00:32:29,036 --> 00:32:32,036 Speaker 5: that Debbie Harry wanted them to sign to the same label. 585 00:32:32,076 --> 00:32:36,556 Speaker 5: Her group Blondie was on only one problem, Sylvia Robinson 586 00:32:36,596 --> 00:32:39,876 Speaker 5: and sugar Hill. They weren't having it, and it would 587 00:32:39,876 --> 00:32:43,196 Speaker 5: be years before Shah could take control of her own career. 588 00:33:05,836 --> 00:33:08,956 Speaker 5: By nineteen eighty three, just two years after the Biggest 589 00:33:08,996 --> 00:33:12,636 Speaker 5: and Hell debut, the Funky four plus one had split up. 590 00:33:13,396 --> 00:33:16,396 Speaker 5: Some members joined up with other crews, but shall Rock 591 00:33:16,836 --> 00:33:18,476 Speaker 5: she had different responsibilities. 592 00:33:18,596 --> 00:33:21,716 Speaker 4: There were times, right, you know, where there was no income, 593 00:33:21,996 --> 00:33:25,356 Speaker 4: no money coming in, no money coming in nowhere. 594 00:33:25,796 --> 00:33:27,716 Speaker 5: So once you had your daughter, like how were you 595 00:33:27,876 --> 00:33:29,836 Speaker 5: able to take care of her? 596 00:33:30,596 --> 00:33:31,036 Speaker 4: My mom? 597 00:33:32,036 --> 00:33:32,436 Speaker 11: My mom? 598 00:33:32,876 --> 00:33:36,796 Speaker 4: And it was so crazy about it, right because and 599 00:33:36,916 --> 00:33:38,876 Speaker 4: here it is we in New York City. People are 600 00:33:38,956 --> 00:33:42,316 Speaker 4: hearing our songs, They're looking at us like yo, what's 601 00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:44,516 Speaker 4: going on. You know, y'all sugar records, you know, out 602 00:33:44,556 --> 00:33:46,516 Speaker 4: of the Bronx where your money at? 603 00:33:46,876 --> 00:33:49,716 Speaker 5: After it's Andel and the successor, that's the joint. You 604 00:33:49,796 --> 00:33:52,516 Speaker 5: think she'd be getting paid. But after the Funky four 605 00:33:52,556 --> 00:33:55,556 Speaker 5: plus one disbanded, Shaw was struggling to even see a 606 00:33:55,676 --> 00:33:58,636 Speaker 5: dime of her royalties. At the time, she couldn't figure 607 00:33:58,636 --> 00:34:02,036 Speaker 5: out why, because she thought her label ball Sylvia Robinson 608 00:34:02,156 --> 00:34:02,716 Speaker 5: had her back. 609 00:34:03,476 --> 00:34:07,156 Speaker 4: Miss Robinson promised me that she was going to look out, 610 00:34:07,556 --> 00:34:10,116 Speaker 4: you know, for me as actually for the fact that 611 00:34:10,556 --> 00:34:14,916 Speaker 4: she became the godmother of my daughter. You know, she 612 00:34:15,116 --> 00:34:17,596 Speaker 4: christianed my daughter at two months old. You know, she 613 00:34:17,796 --> 00:34:20,956 Speaker 4: came up to the Bronx in her Rose Wars and 614 00:34:21,116 --> 00:34:24,876 Speaker 4: christian my daughter at two months old. So I believe 615 00:34:25,316 --> 00:34:28,796 Speaker 4: that she was going to look out for me, you know, 616 00:34:29,156 --> 00:34:31,276 Speaker 4: for all the money of the songs and all the 617 00:34:31,396 --> 00:34:34,836 Speaker 4: things songs that I made. I honestly believe that she 618 00:34:34,916 --> 00:34:37,076 Speaker 4: didn't look out for nobody else. She was going to 619 00:34:37,156 --> 00:34:40,596 Speaker 4: look out for me because she christened my daughter as 620 00:34:40,676 --> 00:34:46,436 Speaker 4: a god daughter. And so with that said, I just 621 00:34:46,596 --> 00:34:48,836 Speaker 4: thought about, Yeah, I just thought about this that I 622 00:34:48,876 --> 00:34:50,756 Speaker 4: can get back into here. It's really deep. 623 00:34:51,796 --> 00:34:53,476 Speaker 7: I trusted Sylvia to do right by her. 624 00:34:53,916 --> 00:34:55,676 Speaker 4: She promised this that she was going to pay us. 625 00:34:56,036 --> 00:34:57,756 Speaker 4: She promised that she was going to allow us to 626 00:34:57,876 --> 00:35:00,636 Speaker 4: record as many songs as we want, and she was 627 00:35:00,716 --> 00:35:04,276 Speaker 4: going to ensure that all our fruits of label would 628 00:35:04,316 --> 00:35:08,396 Speaker 4: come to fruition where we would be able to monetize 629 00:35:08,476 --> 00:35:13,156 Speaker 4: off of the culture that we created. And she promises that, 630 00:35:13,316 --> 00:35:14,076 Speaker 4: but it didn't happen. 631 00:35:15,036 --> 00:35:19,476 Speaker 3: And unfortunately, this wasn't nothing new to y'all. Like remember 632 00:35:19,516 --> 00:35:21,356 Speaker 3: how they were supposed to get paid five hundred dollars 633 00:35:21,396 --> 00:35:22,036 Speaker 3: each per show. 634 00:35:22,316 --> 00:35:24,636 Speaker 4: So when she came out there on tour, we was like, 635 00:35:24,716 --> 00:35:26,596 Speaker 4: you know, what's going on. Our money is short, you 636 00:35:26,676 --> 00:35:28,836 Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. And she gave us this whole story, 637 00:35:29,476 --> 00:35:31,276 Speaker 4: and so everything erupted. 638 00:35:31,836 --> 00:35:31,996 Speaker 5: You know. 639 00:35:32,596 --> 00:35:34,716 Speaker 4: She gave us one time we had asked her for 640 00:35:34,796 --> 00:35:38,676 Speaker 4: an advancement and she gave us, like we thought we 641 00:35:38,756 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 4: was gonna get, like us six seven thousand dollars, you 642 00:35:41,276 --> 00:35:44,236 Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. She gave us like fifteen hundred dollars, 643 00:35:44,396 --> 00:35:46,956 Speaker 4: you know, and we never seen no money again. 644 00:35:47,836 --> 00:35:50,356 Speaker 3: Black musicians have been getting robbed by the record industry 645 00:35:50,636 --> 00:35:54,156 Speaker 3: since the beginning of time, but it hits different when 646 00:35:54,196 --> 00:35:58,076 Speaker 3: the label owner stealing your money is family and. 647 00:35:58,196 --> 00:36:03,676 Speaker 5: Her being your daughter's god mom. I mean, did she 648 00:36:03,796 --> 00:36:04,836 Speaker 5: had to see you struggling? 649 00:36:06,156 --> 00:36:08,676 Speaker 4: I lived in the Bronx and she lived in the 650 00:36:08,756 --> 00:36:13,396 Speaker 4: match in New Jersey, in Englewood. She didn't see it. 651 00:36:14,396 --> 00:36:18,036 Speaker 4: She may have known, but she didn't see it because 652 00:36:18,036 --> 00:36:19,116 Speaker 4: she didn't come to the Bronx. 653 00:36:19,516 --> 00:36:22,756 Speaker 5: Selvia Robinson passed in twenty eleven, so we weren't able 654 00:36:22,796 --> 00:36:23,996 Speaker 5: to talk to her for this story. 655 00:36:24,636 --> 00:36:28,556 Speaker 11: Sylvia Robinson had this reputation for this kind of like 656 00:36:29,996 --> 00:36:32,476 Speaker 11: really screwing over these groups financially. 657 00:36:33,236 --> 00:36:34,276 Speaker 7: That's Clover Hope Again. 658 00:36:34,516 --> 00:36:37,996 Speaker 11: Women and andb vultures and also play a role in 659 00:36:38,356 --> 00:36:42,716 Speaker 11: misogyny or play a role in this larger capitalist system 660 00:36:42,876 --> 00:36:47,956 Speaker 11: and down play other women, and so it's not limited 661 00:36:48,396 --> 00:36:49,836 Speaker 11: to just men doing it. 662 00:36:50,156 --> 00:36:52,276 Speaker 3: Shahrock did everything she could to see her clear of 663 00:36:52,316 --> 00:36:55,436 Speaker 3: sugar Hill Records. She formed a new group called Us Girls, 664 00:36:55,676 --> 00:36:57,836 Speaker 3: hoping the label wouldn't get its hands on whatever money 665 00:36:57,916 --> 00:37:00,876 Speaker 3: came in. Her new crew even appeared in the classic 666 00:37:00,996 --> 00:37:03,356 Speaker 3: film The Streets. 667 00:37:03,436 --> 00:37:06,116 Speaker 8: Since Sharrock is the mood with the magical touch, I'm 668 00:37:06,196 --> 00:37:08,236 Speaker 8: like trying to finance, you know, I'm just the one. 669 00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:08,876 Speaker 15: I want to treat you like. 670 00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:11,676 Speaker 3: But at every turn Shaw was bound by her contract 671 00:37:11,716 --> 00:37:15,156 Speaker 3: with Sylvia. Basically, she was in the three sixty deal 672 00:37:15,556 --> 00:37:16,676 Speaker 3: before those were even a thing. 673 00:37:16,996 --> 00:37:19,156 Speaker 4: This is the reason why, Like in nineteen eighty three, 674 00:37:19,276 --> 00:37:22,676 Speaker 4: I said, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna 675 00:37:22,716 --> 00:37:26,796 Speaker 4: allow no one to pimp me and take everything away 676 00:37:26,876 --> 00:37:30,436 Speaker 4: from me that I love. So I fell back and 677 00:37:30,516 --> 00:37:34,036 Speaker 4: I never recorded again for a long period of time, 678 00:37:34,196 --> 00:37:38,116 Speaker 4: simply because I felt the way for me to handle 679 00:37:38,196 --> 00:37:42,636 Speaker 4: this was to regroup that my contract run out, I 680 00:37:42,716 --> 00:37:49,076 Speaker 4: don't record, I don't do anything that anybody can take 681 00:37:49,236 --> 00:37:51,076 Speaker 4: anything away from me again. 682 00:37:52,836 --> 00:37:55,836 Speaker 3: But even then, there wasn't a roadmap for an unsigned 683 00:37:55,876 --> 00:37:58,596 Speaker 3: woman MC and hip hop trying to turn a passion 684 00:37:58,676 --> 00:38:00,636 Speaker 3: into a profitable, long term career. 685 00:38:01,796 --> 00:38:05,276 Speaker 5: Sea's career hit a glass ceiling. Eventually, hip hop's memory 686 00:38:05,316 --> 00:38:12,956 Speaker 5: of the first female MC started to fade too. Shah 687 00:38:13,116 --> 00:38:14,316 Speaker 5: moved on with the life. 688 00:38:15,636 --> 00:38:16,916 Speaker 7: Until ten years later. 689 00:38:18,436 --> 00:38:20,236 Speaker 3: When she was in a record store and spotted a 690 00:38:20,316 --> 00:38:23,436 Speaker 3: sugar Hill compilation on sale for one hundred dollars. 691 00:38:23,556 --> 00:38:25,956 Speaker 4: I'm talking to said, I said, Wow, this is they 692 00:38:26,036 --> 00:38:27,956 Speaker 4: selling a song and I ain't getting paid from it, 693 00:38:28,076 --> 00:38:31,036 Speaker 4: and I went on this this rampage to try to 694 00:38:31,076 --> 00:38:34,036 Speaker 4: find an attorney, you know, to recoup my money. 695 00:38:34,636 --> 00:38:37,476 Speaker 5: Shaw I wasn't making money, but clearly somebody was. 696 00:38:37,676 --> 00:38:39,516 Speaker 7: She's I would have gone on a rampage too. 697 00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:43,036 Speaker 5: She decided not to take it lying down, so she 698 00:38:43,196 --> 00:38:44,796 Speaker 5: rounded up all the old label mates. 699 00:38:45,236 --> 00:38:47,356 Speaker 4: I went to the Furious five, me and Roy. He 700 00:38:47,556 --> 00:38:49,596 Speaker 4: was very close. I said, get all the members together, 701 00:38:50,276 --> 00:38:52,756 Speaker 4: you know, and come in with me on this lawsuit. 702 00:38:53,116 --> 00:38:55,676 Speaker 4: He got them together. I got to funk you for together, 703 00:38:56,836 --> 00:39:00,036 Speaker 4: and I'm later on a group themed New Crash Crew 704 00:39:00,236 --> 00:39:03,476 Speaker 4: you know, came on and so we fouled against Sylvia 705 00:39:03,596 --> 00:39:05,956 Speaker 4: Robinson and sugar Hill Record. 706 00:39:06,116 --> 00:39:07,156 Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety seven. 707 00:39:07,556 --> 00:39:09,596 Speaker 7: Sean and her former label MATS by the suit. 708 00:39:10,196 --> 00:39:13,596 Speaker 3: They were seeking royalties as well as other fees from Sylvia, 709 00:39:13,996 --> 00:39:16,996 Speaker 3: her husband Joe Robinson, and their next of kin, who 710 00:39:17,036 --> 00:39:18,076 Speaker 3: are now running the company. 711 00:39:18,476 --> 00:39:21,756 Speaker 5: In this fight dragged on for decades, Robinson's were on 712 00:39:21,916 --> 00:39:25,756 Speaker 5: cooperative and eventually both Joe and Silvia died before a 713 00:39:25,836 --> 00:39:27,036 Speaker 5: final settlement was reached. 714 00:39:27,276 --> 00:39:29,196 Speaker 4: And finally, you know, to make a long story short, 715 00:39:29,316 --> 00:39:32,236 Speaker 4: after all these years, we finally, you know, were able 716 00:39:32,316 --> 00:39:34,276 Speaker 4: to revert everything back to us. 717 00:39:34,956 --> 00:39:37,476 Speaker 5: Now, Shah and Raheem wouldn't disclose to us how much 718 00:39:37,516 --> 00:39:40,436 Speaker 5: money they got. But for Shah, it was never just 719 00:39:40,516 --> 00:39:43,916 Speaker 5: about the money. This was about fighting for herself, for 720 00:39:43,996 --> 00:39:46,876 Speaker 5: her fellow artists, and really for her own legacy. 721 00:39:47,156 --> 00:39:50,156 Speaker 3: What does it feel like to get your royalties back, 722 00:39:50,276 --> 00:39:55,036 Speaker 3: get literally get get the credit for your craft back 723 00:39:56,156 --> 00:39:58,276 Speaker 3: after all this time, after all this time of being 724 00:39:59,156 --> 00:40:00,796 Speaker 3: doubted and robbed. 725 00:40:00,916 --> 00:40:04,556 Speaker 4: It feels like I've been vindicating, you know. It feels 726 00:40:04,676 --> 00:40:10,156 Speaker 4: like that I am still here, you know, in flesh 727 00:40:10,756 --> 00:40:14,156 Speaker 4: to be able to see the outcome, you know, and 728 00:40:14,356 --> 00:40:16,796 Speaker 4: my kids, you know. And it's so crazy about it 729 00:40:16,876 --> 00:40:20,276 Speaker 4: because I think that my kids know that I am 730 00:40:20,316 --> 00:40:23,516 Speaker 4: a strong woman, you know, and they saw everything that 731 00:40:23,676 --> 00:40:26,876 Speaker 4: I went through, you know, at that given birth. They 732 00:40:27,036 --> 00:40:29,396 Speaker 4: heard it over the years. They heard me on the 733 00:40:29,476 --> 00:40:33,276 Speaker 4: telephone talking to the attorneys. They heard my passion to 734 00:40:33,436 --> 00:40:37,196 Speaker 4: other MC's, you know, they know how I feel about 735 00:40:37,476 --> 00:40:43,036 Speaker 4: hip hop culture and to be vindicated bright and to allow. 736 00:40:42,876 --> 00:40:46,956 Speaker 14: My kids to see that no matter what you believe in, 737 00:40:47,676 --> 00:40:50,356 Speaker 14: whether or not somebody do you wrong or not, if 738 00:40:50,396 --> 00:40:52,956 Speaker 14: you believe that what you're doing is right, then you 739 00:40:53,076 --> 00:40:53,996 Speaker 14: go with distance. 740 00:40:54,916 --> 00:40:57,116 Speaker 5: Other artists have tried to file against sugar Hill, but 741 00:40:57,196 --> 00:41:00,676 Speaker 5: shall Rock she was the first to successfully get everybody paid. 742 00:41:01,036 --> 00:41:03,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the fight. That's just as historic as 743 00:41:03,756 --> 00:41:06,596 Speaker 3: being the first few l MC. It's a claim to fame. 744 00:41:06,836 --> 00:41:10,876 Speaker 3: Nobody else can make you feel like there's been times 745 00:41:10,916 --> 00:41:13,396 Speaker 3: when you weren't respected for your craft, And do you 746 00:41:13,476 --> 00:41:15,316 Speaker 3: feel respected for your craft now? 747 00:41:15,996 --> 00:41:18,076 Speaker 4: I used to, you know, think about you know, not 748 00:41:18,196 --> 00:41:21,236 Speaker 4: being respected in the beginning, you know, And so I 749 00:41:21,356 --> 00:41:24,316 Speaker 4: learned not to take it personal. And so instead of me, 750 00:41:24,596 --> 00:41:27,876 Speaker 4: you know, feeling like I was disrespected because people didn't 751 00:41:27,916 --> 00:41:30,996 Speaker 4: know who Schavrock was, I took a different approach. I 752 00:41:31,076 --> 00:41:34,276 Speaker 4: started telling people my story and will continue to tell 753 00:41:34,316 --> 00:41:37,276 Speaker 4: people my story. And the more that I tell a 754 00:41:37,356 --> 00:41:40,436 Speaker 4: person in story and they say, oh, what, that didn't happen, 755 00:41:40,916 --> 00:41:42,956 Speaker 4: then prove it didn't. I can prove that it did. 756 00:41:43,676 --> 00:41:46,716 Speaker 4: And so no, I learned to not take it personal, 757 00:41:47,276 --> 00:41:49,956 Speaker 4: but to be personal and let people know who I 758 00:41:50,076 --> 00:41:55,156 Speaker 4: am and what I meant and how I was instrumental 759 00:41:55,476 --> 00:41:57,476 Speaker 4: in helping to move this culture forward. 760 00:41:57,956 --> 00:42:01,236 Speaker 3: In spaces like the Bronx Music Carriage Center, Shah gets 761 00:42:01,276 --> 00:42:02,396 Speaker 3: to define her own legacy. 762 00:42:02,516 --> 00:42:04,676 Speaker 4: But I just want to say before I get started 763 00:42:04,676 --> 00:42:08,596 Speaker 4: about Shavrock. I just want to say, y'all, we all 764 00:42:08,796 --> 00:42:15,156 Speaker 4: the we created a multi billion dollar business back in 765 00:42:15,236 --> 00:42:18,036 Speaker 4: the nineteen seventies. You know what I'm saying, a multi 766 00:42:18,156 --> 00:42:22,196 Speaker 4: being dollar business. I'm proud of that, even though I 767 00:42:22,356 --> 00:42:26,476 Speaker 4: have never received or recouped the money. As well as 768 00:42:26,676 --> 00:42:32,156 Speaker 4: Grandmaster Kaz and Mellie Mel and Grand Wizzard Theodore, we 769 00:42:32,316 --> 00:42:36,916 Speaker 4: are still proud to have created this being a dollar 770 00:42:36,996 --> 00:42:40,556 Speaker 4: business because you know what, when it's all said and done, 771 00:42:40,956 --> 00:42:43,676 Speaker 4: it was never about the money for us. It was 772 00:42:43,756 --> 00:42:47,556 Speaker 4: about the heart and soul of the culture. The b girl, 773 00:42:47,676 --> 00:42:51,116 Speaker 4: the Bee Boy, the MC, the graffiti artist, the DJ, 774 00:42:51,716 --> 00:42:55,156 Speaker 4: right here in the Bronx. So let's give a round 775 00:42:55,196 --> 00:42:58,836 Speaker 4: of applause to the Bronx and everybody that represents HIPIP 776 00:42:58,876 --> 00:42:59,836 Speaker 4: culture to the fullest. 777 00:43:00,316 --> 00:43:03,196 Speaker 3: At the end of her talk, Shahro starts answering questions 778 00:43:03,236 --> 00:43:04,156 Speaker 3: from fans in the crowd. 779 00:43:04,316 --> 00:43:08,356 Speaker 15: Thank you for your contribution to the culture because of 780 00:43:08,476 --> 00:43:11,956 Speaker 15: your voice at an early age of planning to see 781 00:43:12,436 --> 00:43:15,956 Speaker 15: that women were equal with men right on the mic, 782 00:43:16,436 --> 00:43:19,476 Speaker 15: hearing you as a child told me women could do 783 00:43:19,556 --> 00:43:21,996 Speaker 15: it too, and that has helped me develop as a man, 784 00:43:22,556 --> 00:43:25,716 Speaker 15: being into spaces with women, because if shy Rock was 785 00:43:25,796 --> 00:43:29,156 Speaker 15: into spaces with the fucking walklus one more women could 786 00:43:29,156 --> 00:43:30,036 Speaker 15: be any spaces. 787 00:43:30,316 --> 00:43:31,996 Speaker 4: So I like to thank you for thank you. 788 00:43:32,116 --> 00:43:34,836 Speaker 3: So we talked more to this guy after he calls 789 00:43:34,876 --> 00:43:38,636 Speaker 3: himself brother North of Division X, and he says he 790 00:43:38,796 --> 00:43:40,236 Speaker 3: was one of the people who stayed up late to 791 00:43:40,276 --> 00:43:41,596 Speaker 3: watch Rock on SNL. 792 00:43:41,876 --> 00:43:43,796 Speaker 5: I had never been up past like eleven o'clock. 793 00:43:44,796 --> 00:43:46,316 Speaker 6: When the news came on, it was time to go 794 00:43:46,396 --> 00:43:49,556 Speaker 6: to sleep, and I begged if I could, you know, 795 00:43:49,756 --> 00:43:53,036 Speaker 6: to be able to see it, and my mom's let 796 00:43:53,076 --> 00:43:55,636 Speaker 6: me stay up and somehow I was able to catch 797 00:43:55,676 --> 00:43:58,116 Speaker 6: it at the beginning and fell asleep, but it. 798 00:43:58,196 --> 00:44:01,836 Speaker 3: Was The event was a small crowd, but Shaw's fans just. 799 00:44:01,956 --> 00:44:02,556 Speaker 7: Keep giving her. 800 00:44:03,156 --> 00:44:04,916 Speaker 16: I never knew realized that was a I was like yo, 801 00:44:05,116 --> 00:44:07,036 Speaker 16: one for the girl. We never even saw it as 802 00:44:07,156 --> 00:44:08,956 Speaker 16: like yo, she's a girl. And seeing that it was 803 00:44:09,196 --> 00:44:11,796 Speaker 16: even a question because she rapped harder than a duke, 804 00:44:12,436 --> 00:44:14,076 Speaker 16: you know what I'm saying. And her crew was hard. 805 00:44:14,756 --> 00:44:16,396 Speaker 16: You know her crew back then, our crew was hard. 806 00:44:16,436 --> 00:44:18,836 Speaker 16: They was tough, They they was dope. There was well respected. 807 00:44:19,036 --> 00:44:21,996 Speaker 3: One woman in the crowd named Keina became an instant 808 00:44:22,036 --> 00:44:23,956 Speaker 3: fan of Shaw that night. Do you know anything about 809 00:44:23,996 --> 00:44:24,956 Speaker 3: shot Crack before tonight? 810 00:44:25,036 --> 00:44:25,836 Speaker 7: Absolutely nothing? 811 00:44:26,236 --> 00:44:26,516 Speaker 1: Okay? 812 00:44:26,596 --> 00:44:27,956 Speaker 7: And what did the talk teach you? 813 00:44:28,636 --> 00:44:31,516 Speaker 17: So that she was a first female MC coming out 814 00:44:31,556 --> 00:44:34,556 Speaker 17: of Lebronx or in general, and that was interesting. I 815 00:44:34,636 --> 00:44:36,636 Speaker 17: never heard her name before and for her to have 816 00:44:36,796 --> 00:44:38,996 Speaker 17: such an influence on what hip hop is today and 817 00:44:39,036 --> 00:44:40,956 Speaker 17: for me to never know who she is, you know, 818 00:44:41,156 --> 00:44:43,796 Speaker 17: says a lot about storytelling and why it's important. So 819 00:44:43,876 --> 00:44:45,596 Speaker 17: I am very happy I came out tonight. 820 00:44:46,036 --> 00:44:46,196 Speaker 4: Yeah. 821 00:44:46,236 --> 00:44:47,916 Speaker 7: When you say says a lot, what do you mean? 822 00:44:48,596 --> 00:44:51,196 Speaker 17: Well, you know, the narrative that goes in the media 823 00:44:51,396 --> 00:44:53,796 Speaker 17: is like whoever shouts loudest gets heard. And I think 824 00:44:54,116 --> 00:44:57,476 Speaker 17: she's now starting to get the props that she's due, right, 825 00:44:57,556 --> 00:44:59,996 Speaker 17: And it's not because she didn't do the right things. 826 00:45:00,036 --> 00:45:01,556 Speaker 17: It's just people to know who she was. So you know, 827 00:45:01,596 --> 00:45:03,116 Speaker 17: you have to go to events type us to start 828 00:45:03,196 --> 00:45:05,436 Speaker 17: finding out the history and the truth, and you know, 829 00:45:05,756 --> 00:45:08,716 Speaker 17: reading up on things and digging deep to not just 830 00:45:09,116 --> 00:45:12,956 Speaker 17: accept what's being told and you know, your mainstream media. 831 00:45:13,076 --> 00:45:17,476 Speaker 3: And then something happens that wasn't on the schedule, grandmassacast, 832 00:45:17,636 --> 00:45:20,876 Speaker 3: there's not a funky beat, shy hypes up the crowd. 833 00:45:22,836 --> 00:45:25,116 Speaker 7: Out of nowhere. She breaks into a verse. 834 00:45:25,356 --> 00:45:28,236 Speaker 9: Yo, Shot Rock, gets your own will no rock for 835 00:45:28,356 --> 00:45:29,796 Speaker 9: the hot, get down for the low. 836 00:45:30,236 --> 00:45:32,196 Speaker 4: Never heard the words. They call it the way because 837 00:45:32,196 --> 00:45:34,316 Speaker 4: I was one of the best. I'm on the right track. 838 00:45:34,356 --> 00:45:35,116 Speaker 4: When you hear a. 839 00:45:35,236 --> 00:45:37,796 Speaker 9: Rock from the other female, push it to the top 840 00:45:37,876 --> 00:45:40,596 Speaker 9: to get fling tail shot rock and I need to 841 00:45:40,676 --> 00:45:42,476 Speaker 9: please you, don't want to get it for the fellas 842 00:45:42,476 --> 00:45:44,116 Speaker 9: and the young ladies, keep my head. 843 00:45:44,156 --> 00:45:48,036 Speaker 3: And then Shaw invites random fans on stage to rap 844 00:45:48,116 --> 00:46:00,956 Speaker 3: with her. It's a whole snipher. Everybody's swarming the stage. 845 00:46:01,716 --> 00:46:04,036 Speaker 4: Let's not brother, are you ready? Let's not a boy 846 00:46:04,116 --> 00:46:10,036 Speaker 4: from the house without the County. Okay is in the house, 847 00:46:10,036 --> 00:46:14,516 Speaker 4: and show the party go rock in the house. 848 00:46:14,796 --> 00:46:15,636 Speaker 10: So party. 849 00:46:18,356 --> 00:46:21,036 Speaker 1: Is in the house, SODA's party rock out. 850 00:46:22,916 --> 00:46:26,236 Speaker 3: In this room, in the birthplace of hip hop, Shot 851 00:46:26,356 --> 00:46:27,476 Speaker 3: Rock is remembered. 852 00:46:30,996 --> 00:46:31,316 Speaker 1: Ready. 853 00:46:31,356 --> 00:46:32,556 Speaker 4: In addition set up. 854 00:46:35,916 --> 00:46:39,036 Speaker 5: The legacy isn't just about being seen, It's about how 855 00:46:39,116 --> 00:46:43,036 Speaker 5: you're seeing and ultimately, who's lens the world is looking through. 856 00:46:45,356 --> 00:46:48,476 Speaker 7: Someone always has something to say. Everybody has a comment 857 00:46:48,556 --> 00:46:51,716 Speaker 7: on your body. It's like if you're not true, they're 858 00:46:51,836 --> 00:46:54,156 Speaker 7: talking about it. If you have surgery done. They have 859 00:46:54,236 --> 00:46:58,036 Speaker 7: something to say. It's just always something to say. People 860 00:46:58,116 --> 00:47:02,916 Speaker 7: think it's fun. It's like, oh, let's all join in 861 00:47:03,276 --> 00:47:04,676 Speaker 7: and bash on the black woman. 862 00:47:06,716 --> 00:47:12,756 Speaker 17: It's something about the woman's body specifically that really triggers people. 863 00:47:13,876 --> 00:47:17,316 Speaker 3: Roberts, Dream Doll, Baby Tait and Doji take us through 864 00:47:17,396 --> 00:47:20,436 Speaker 3: Rule number three. Next time on Louder Than a Riot. 865 00:47:20,876 --> 00:47:23,916 Speaker 5: Louder Than a Riot. It's hosted by Me, Ridney Carmartin, 866 00:47:24,236 --> 00:47:28,676 Speaker 5: and Sidney Madden. This episode was written by myself, Sidney 867 00:47:29,156 --> 00:47:31,276 Speaker 5: and Mono soond Rason, and it. 868 00:47:31,356 --> 00:47:36,156 Speaker 3: Was produced by Manasandrasan. Our senior producer is Gaby Bargarelli and. 869 00:47:36,236 --> 00:47:39,596 Speaker 5: Our producers are Sam Jay Leeds and Mono sound Rasa. 870 00:47:40,236 --> 00:47:44,116 Speaker 5: Our editor is Sarria Shockley, and our engineer is Gilly Moon. 871 00:47:44,756 --> 00:47:50,476 Speaker 5: Our senior supervising producer Rif Vincent. Our interns Jose Sandoval, 872 00:47:51,116 --> 00:47:52,156 Speaker 5: Teresa Shia. 873 00:47:52,396 --> 00:47:56,316 Speaker 3: And p Lar Galvan, and the NPR execs are Keith Jenkins, 874 00:47:56,636 --> 00:47:58,516 Speaker 3: Landa Sanguinei and Anya Grandman. 875 00:47:59,156 --> 00:48:03,956 Speaker 5: Original theme by Casa Overall, remix by Susie Analog, and 876 00:48:04,076 --> 00:48:07,596 Speaker 5: the scoring for this episode was provided by Susie Analog 877 00:48:07,676 --> 00:48:08,556 Speaker 5: and CASA Overall. 878 00:48:09,116 --> 00:48:12,396 Speaker 3: Our digital editor is Jacob Gans. Our fact checkers are 879 00:48:12,436 --> 00:48:15,516 Speaker 3: Sarah Knight and Jane Gilban. If you want to learn 880 00:48:15,556 --> 00:48:20,836 Speaker 3: more about mc shawrock story, check out her autobiography, Luminary Icon, 881 00:48:21,476 --> 00:48:24,036 Speaker 3: The story of the beginning and end of hip hop's 882 00:48:24,036 --> 00:48:28,076 Speaker 3: first female MC. If you like this episode and you 883 00:48:28,156 --> 00:48:31,156 Speaker 3: want to talk back, hit us up on Twitter. We're 884 00:48:31,236 --> 00:48:33,756 Speaker 3: at Louder Than a Riot, and if you want to 885 00:48:33,796 --> 00:48:39,036 Speaker 3: email us, it's Louder at NPR dot org. From MPR Music, 886 00:48:39,116 --> 00:48:39,956 Speaker 3: I'm Sydney. 887 00:48:39,676 --> 00:48:43,236 Speaker 5: Madden and I'm Rodney Carl Michael. This is Louder Than 888 00:48:43,276 --> 00:48:43,636 Speaker 5: a Riot.