WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Death of Samora Machel

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<v Speaker 1>Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you stories of things we

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<v Speaker 1>simply don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, and welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>as always, joined by Devin and Joe, and this week

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about a mystery. Of course, because

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<v Speaker 1>by the time this episode comes out, there will be

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<v Speaker 1>some presidential stuff going on. So I figured we'd talk

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<v Speaker 1>about a president who happens to be in a different

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<v Speaker 1>country ex President and a dead president prime minister president.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, he's always referred to as president most of

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<v Speaker 1>the time, so I'm gonna call him a president. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so not the guy who swam away from wait, from

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<v Speaker 1>the ocean. He was trying to get away from that ocean.

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<v Speaker 1>It caught up. Now this week we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the death of Mozambican President Samara Michelle, who died

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<v Speaker 1>along with thirty three other people when the presidential plane

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<v Speaker 1>which was a tuple of t U one three four

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<v Speaker 1>A three crashed into a South African hillside on October nine,

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<v Speaker 1>six um and it's believed by many people to have

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<v Speaker 1>been an assassination, which was executed by intentionally crashing the plane.

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<v Speaker 1>President at all. Before we get into the story, I

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<v Speaker 1>do want to say that this is a listener suggestion.

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<v Speaker 1>This is an ash story. Oh yeah, we haven't done

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<v Speaker 1>a way Ashes stories in a long time. You haven't.

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<v Speaker 1>And we haven't even gotten through half of his suggestion.

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<v Speaker 1>I know. I didn't even intend. I didn't realize this

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<v Speaker 1>was an suggestion until I got to it. And by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, it's another suggestion. We're like through the first thirty. No,

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<v Speaker 1>we love it ash um. Okay, So before we get

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<v Speaker 1>into the story the crash, we do need to cover

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<v Speaker 1>some background information on both Michelle as well as some

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<v Speaker 1>other people and the area, because there was a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of turmoil in the region and that plays in it

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<v Speaker 1>plays into the story. So first, let's start with the

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<v Speaker 1>country of Mozambique, which is where some more Michelle was

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<v Speaker 1>the president of Bob Dylan wrote a song about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Did he really came out in the seventies, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was right after the decolonization and it was taken

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<v Speaker 1>over by Marxist. Okay, because for a second I was

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<v Speaker 1>thinking you were talking about there was a time where

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<v Speaker 1>Bob Marley had gone to the same region, but that

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<v Speaker 1>was for another country which suddenly I don't have the

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<v Speaker 1>name of, but I know it's further along in my

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<v Speaker 1>script and I'll call it out when we get there. Um, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're your geography, isn't that great with with South

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<v Speaker 1>Africa and not the country, the area the southern part

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<v Speaker 1>of Africa, Because that I was just had a moment

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<v Speaker 1>where I was like, uh, you keep saying the beak

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<v Speaker 1>is the country, but then you're saying in South Africa.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I'm confused, So the southern region of Africa not

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<v Speaker 1>South Africa. Correct. If you are familiar with or not

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with it, you will look at a map and

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<v Speaker 1>on the very bottom of the tip you will see

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<v Speaker 1>the country of South Africa, and to the right of

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<v Speaker 1>it on the coast is Mozambique, just directly to the

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<v Speaker 1>north eastern side, and then there's a small country sandwich

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<v Speaker 1>in between South Africa and Mozambique, which is called Swaziland.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's where it is, and it's a Swazilands and

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<v Speaker 1>its bitsy teeny tiny country. It kind of sandwiched. It's

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<v Speaker 1>completely surrounded, its surround really landlocked. But yeah by those

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<v Speaker 1>two countries, surrounded on three sides by South Africa and

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<v Speaker 1>one side. Yeah. Yeah, for about four hundred years, Mozambique

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<v Speaker 1>was Portuguese colony. And okay, so I got a safer second.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't really I knew Portugal head colonies. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>realize that it's still had colonies this far into the

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<v Speaker 1>modern era for some reason. I mean, it's just a

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<v Speaker 1>failing on my part for from a historical perspective apparently,

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<v Speaker 1>but I was like, it's a Portuguese colony. I thought

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<v Speaker 1>the Portuguese lost all our colonies like two hundred years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>We know not everything, but I mean most places that

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<v Speaker 1>had colonies still have colonies. Is that not accurate? My

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<v Speaker 1>problem is is that I'm used to the British, who

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<v Speaker 1>you know, returned all of their colonies primarily or most

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<v Speaker 1>of them. They they don't have, but like two colonies anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels like and I know that's not the right number.

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<v Speaker 1>Please don't send an email. I know too isn't the

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<v Speaker 1>correct number, but there was a lot of turmoil in

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<v Speaker 1>the last forty or fifty years and they have of

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<v Speaker 1>those countries of all returned to their own governance. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>in some fashion. Mostly most of the eclonization took place

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<v Speaker 1>in the sixties, you know, a few held onto the seventies. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, this was a Portuguese colony, and as Joe

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<v Speaker 1>was just talking about, in the sixties there was a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of revolt against the Portuguese government. A grilla liberation

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<v Speaker 1>group became very active starting around four and they were

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<v Speaker 1>openly fighting the Portuguese government. The name of this group

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<v Speaker 1>is the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique, which is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a mouthful. So thankfully everybody uses the acronym

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<v Speaker 1>for LIMO, which is much easier to say, I do too.

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<v Speaker 1>For LIMO fought against Portugal and made progress towards their

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<v Speaker 1>goal of taking back the country, slowly but surely. One

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<v Speaker 1>thing that really helped them is that they weren't the

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<v Speaker 1>only colony struggling to do this, and there was actually

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<v Speaker 1>liberally Asia movements in Angola, Portuguese Guinea and as as

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<v Speaker 1>well as Mozambique, and in nineteen seventy four, after fighting

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<v Speaker 1>wars on multiple fronts, there was a coup in Portugal

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<v Speaker 1>which brought down the existing government and it was replaced

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<v Speaker 1>by one that was totally willing to grant independence to

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<v Speaker 1>the colonies. So the short version is Mozambique granted its

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<v Speaker 1>independence in nineteen seventy five and for Limo, being the

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<v Speaker 1>main force, took power. They became the governance at that time,

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<v Speaker 1>and they quite quickly kicked out the two hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand Portuguese citizens who were living in country, so

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<v Speaker 1>they were literally taking everything back. A lot of African

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<v Speaker 1>countries came to regret though, Uh there was there was

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<v Speaker 1>positives and there was negatives. They there they did leave

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty significant gap in terms of commerce, and uh

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<v Speaker 1>there was some other areas that that really struggled because

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<v Speaker 1>of it. Men in the they most of them have

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<v Speaker 1>overcome that. It took them time. That's as it always does. Well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean they when you're a colony, right, all of

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<v Speaker 1>your infrastructure is run. But the power colonizational power is

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<v Speaker 1>that it's much easier to say yeah, um, so I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, as soon as they say you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>you're cut off it's like people who know how to

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<v Speaker 1>run the machinery. Well, it's you know, it's just like

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<v Speaker 1>you know, being like a college kid and getting cut

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<v Speaker 1>off from your parents all of a sudden, you're you

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<v Speaker 1>have no idea what you're doing and you have to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of fend for yourself. And it's a great analogy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really hard, That's exactly what it is. Yeah, But

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<v Speaker 1>luckily most of these places have really at least kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. They've grown up to use your college kid analogy.

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<v Speaker 1>They've grown up. I have to say, the of all

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<v Speaker 1>the all the countries out there that were forward colonies,

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<v Speaker 1>the ones that are consistently doing the best are the

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<v Speaker 1>ones that were colonized by the British. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean they really are. That's accurate. Actually, yes it is.

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<v Speaker 1>And you look at like you know, Believes to India,

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<v Speaker 1>to Canada, America to where is that that other place?

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<v Speaker 1>That other place, yeah, that other place. Yeah. Even in Africa,

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<v Speaker 1>the African countries that were colonized by the Brits, they're

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<v Speaker 1>doing great. I wonder if there is a better access

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<v Speaker 1>strategy that happened there. Uh, you know what, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's a long road for us to

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<v Speaker 1>run down. Yeah, let's let's not go there. Let's let's

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<v Speaker 1>keep focused on Mosbeak here because we're still talking about them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yea boswa is the country got it, okay. So when

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<v Speaker 1>for Limo came into power as the ruling government, they

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<v Speaker 1>made the entire state a Marxist lenisis is that how

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<v Speaker 1>you say that in Leninist thank you adding an extra

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<v Speaker 1>ele in there? A Leninist Marxist Leninist political organization, a

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<v Speaker 1>real formula for success. And so what that meant is

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<v Speaker 1>that they set up a socialist state for its part.

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<v Speaker 1>The Soviet unions obviously very happy about this. They have

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<v Speaker 1>a new friend in town. But that didn't really didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really make everybody else in the area happy. But we'll

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<v Speaker 1>get into that in a second. Um Michelle Samoura Michelle,

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<v Speaker 1>he was involved with for Limo from its beginnings. He

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<v Speaker 1>very quickly rose to power through the organization, such so

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<v Speaker 1>that in nineventy he was elected the leader of the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>So in seventy five, when the Portuguese left and for

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<v Speaker 1>Limo stepped into the government, choose he was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the natural, the natural person to take over, and he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't it wasn't. There's a whole bunch of backstory here.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't immediately just the number one guy, but we're

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of shortening this to keep it simple. And

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<v Speaker 1>the important thing he was president. He was president. And

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<v Speaker 1>the other important thing to know is that almost immediately

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<v Speaker 1>there was detractors who were not happy with him or

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<v Speaker 1>for Limo, and a counter group or counter movement began,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was the Mozambican National Resistance, which in the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning went by the acronym of just M and R.

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<v Speaker 1>But later on they change their name. And this name

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<v Speaker 1>is sort of recent, but we'll use it just because

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna see it most of the reading is Rhanamo

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<v Speaker 1>and they opposed the communist based government and they actually

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<v Speaker 1>began a civil war in nineteen seventy six. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do. So you can see country gets it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>independence and then immediately goes to war with itself and

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<v Speaker 1>the year later, like that's not a good thing. Listen,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just the truncated version. They're just getting all of

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<v Speaker 1>the crap out of the way. They're doing it fast,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you know, they get that out of their

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<v Speaker 1>system and then they have a great path to become

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<v Speaker 1>a really productive, amazing country. There you go that that

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<v Speaker 1>must have been the plan. I'm not sure. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>look up any stats on how productive and amazing they are.

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<v Speaker 1>They actually there's been a lot of political changes in

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<v Speaker 1>that country over the last forty years. But it's only

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<v Speaker 1>been forty years, right, I mean they've only run their

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<v Speaker 1>country for forty years, where when we fourty years out

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<v Speaker 1>like not. Um, So let's keep going on. We're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit more about the area. So we've

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<v Speaker 1>got Michelle, he's now in power. We talked about the neighbors,

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<v Speaker 1>which were South Africa and Rhodesia, which is modern day Zimbabwe.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, Rhodesia was the one that I was

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<v Speaker 1>thinking of that Marley went to that he was he

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<v Speaker 1>went there, did a big concert during their whole run.

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<v Speaker 1>Also talked about Rhodesia when we talked about the Lake

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<v Speaker 1>City Quiepels did we Yeah, the Rhodesian Army. You're right,

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<v Speaker 1>we did stop coming together. But I think we have

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<v Speaker 1>to go to Rhodesia. That's what is telling this country

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't exist anymore. Okay, So South Africa and Rhodesia,

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<v Speaker 1>who were both under white control, do not like this

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<v Speaker 1>country that is now a socialist state. They you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're not fans of communism, and they begin to funnel

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<v Speaker 1>support and money and weapons and shelter to the folks

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<v Speaker 1>that are involved in Renamo, And uh, yeah, that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>not very very cool to Michelle. He he doesn't like that.

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<v Speaker 1>He actually has a lot of very stern words to

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<v Speaker 1>say to both governments for that, but then again for

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<v Speaker 1>his interfering their politics too. Yeah, because he was he

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<v Speaker 1>was at the same time doing the same thing for

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<v Speaker 1>the a n C, which is the African National Council,

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<v Speaker 1>which eventually would take over when what's that African National

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<v Speaker 1>Congress what did I call it? Council? Thank you over?

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<v Speaker 1>But they would, you know, they would be the ones

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<v Speaker 1>who would take over when the apartheid government in South

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<v Speaker 1>Africa would eventually crumble several years later, more than several

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<v Speaker 1>it's the along a long time. I meant several years

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<v Speaker 1>after the death of Michelle. I apologize, I'm mixing my

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<v Speaker 1>timeline there. That's my own fault. I think it was

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<v Speaker 1>ninety four. So yeah, they did. They struggled against that

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time. Okay, but let's jump ahead in time,

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna jump ahead. We've got a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>the backstory of the region. Let's jump to six. There

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<v Speaker 1>was a meeting of the heads of state of several

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<v Speaker 1>different African nations being held on the nineteenth of October

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:37.360
<v Speaker 1>six in Mambola, Zambia, and the goal was to, using

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:42.200
<v Speaker 1>air quotes here, encourage the dictator of Zaire to stop

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 1>supporting the insurgent groups that were fighting in Angola at

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>the time. As I understand it from the reading, Michelle's

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 1>motivation to go there was also to help quote unquote

0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:01.199
<v Speaker 1>encourage the other leaders there to stop support being Namo. Well, yeah,

0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean that makes sense. Right. You go to a

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 1>place and you say, hey, listen, yeah, I'll support you

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.559
<v Speaker 1>in this if you support me in that. Yeah. It's yeah,

0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.000
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a given take. That's way this works. Yeah,

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.280
<v Speaker 1>that's what diplomacy is. I think it. Maybe diplomacy is

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>basically threats. That's why you how you know you're an American? Okay,

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.479
<v Speaker 1>So Michelle, along with a bunch of his staffers and journalists,

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.080
<v Speaker 1>they flew to this meeting on the presidential plane, which,

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 1>as I had said in the beginning, was a Tupa

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Lev TU one thirty four eight ash three, which is

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>a Soviet design, And you don't say I do with

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 1>a name like that, you do. It was a Soviet

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 1>design and manufactured twin engine jet laner. The first thing

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 1>I did when I heard it started going to the stories.

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.720
<v Speaker 1>I looked at the crash history of the Tupi Lev

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 1>and actually that's not as bad as I thought would be. No,

0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 1>but it's not the safest plane in the world. It

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>turns out to be not the worst either. This type

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 1>of plane, though it had been around for at that

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>time twenty years, and this particular plane had been in

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 1>service with the government for six years. So it's a

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.760
<v Speaker 1>modern plane with the modern navigational equipment of the time.

0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.800
<v Speaker 1>A telegraph did not, but it did have a fax machine.

0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 1>But something to note, uh this is I always found

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 1>this little strange is that the crew were actually Russian.

0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 1>They were employed by the USSR and they operated the

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 1>plane for the Mozambican government, which I just I don't know.

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Something about that seems a little odd to me. Well,

0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.640
<v Speaker 1>they probably wanted the Russians to be changing the tapes

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.480
<v Speaker 1>and the bugging devices. Yeah, I mean, I guess they

0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 1>kind of yeah. I mean it a little bit makes

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>sense to me. I can see it. It's a way

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 1>to hear, we'll give you this plane, you know, for

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>a discount, and then we'll give you a crew, and

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>let's pay for the crew. I mean, you're leasing out

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 1>the crew at that point. I get it, but it

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.760
<v Speaker 1>always just seemed a little odd to have to be

0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.920
<v Speaker 1>leasing the crew, right, I mean, if they could just

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.200
<v Speaker 1>pay them directly to or the USSR they were they

0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 1>were Soviet employees. Yeah, I mean if the Soviet Union

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.440
<v Speaker 1>is really just trying to play that role of like

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 1>big brother, like, yes, we will take you to encourage

0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 1>them to continue the Soviet way or a socialist way.

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 1>So this is one of those things they do, is

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of a small gesture. And then also you know,

0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 1>get tons of intel and all that stuff because they're

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.560
<v Speaker 1>bugging the plane. As Jeff said, um so well, let's

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>uh so enough about the crew. We're gonna go to

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>We're going back to the date of the nineteenth of

0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>October of that six The meeting ended and because of

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Michelle had as the reading always says, he had an

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 1>important meeting the next day, which it turned out was

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.640
<v Speaker 1>actually his wife's birthday, though a lot of people say

0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 1>that he also had some other quote unquote really important

0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 1>meetings that he had to attend. Let's be honest, you're

0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 1>a married man. Yeah, it's his wife's birthday. It's at

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 1>a very important meeting to be there for. So well,

0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.480
<v Speaker 1>she was with him, So they had they had gone

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 1>to Umbala, and and she had gone with him, and

0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.000
<v Speaker 1>so the rather than they've been offered to stay overnight,

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 1>she probably didn't really want to. Yeah, they didn't. They

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to, so he said, no, we're going to

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 1>go home today during the day though. Yeah. Yeah, So

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.480
<v Speaker 1>what happens here is, uh, they decided that they're gonna

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 1>go ahead. They're gonna fly home to Maputo City, which

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.640
<v Speaker 1>is in the capital of Mozambique. And the plane leaves

0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.000
<v Speaker 1>at six forty at night, and it takes kind of

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:43.359
<v Speaker 1>this serpentine path, but it flies basically southeast towards Maputo,

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and the weather is clear and the flights estimated to

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.400
<v Speaker 1>take about three hours just just under Actually from here,

0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 1>we know what happened because of the fact that we

0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.600
<v Speaker 1>what were recovered were the cockpit voice recorders, the CVR

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>and the flight data recorder or the black boxes everybody

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 1>likes to call them. And all those bugs at the

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Russians had placed and none of the bugs at the

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Russians had placed. Um, so we've got we've got all

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 1>that data. At nine o'clock that night, the so this

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 1>is they've obviously left and they're flying home. At nine

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 1>o'clock that night, the crew contacted Maputo air traffic control

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.000
<v Speaker 1>to let them know that they're about forty minutes out.

0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:29.560
<v Speaker 1>And then sixteen minutes later, by the way, it was

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:31.800
<v Speaker 1>not but it was a low it was a small

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.959
<v Speaker 1>moon if I remember right, and the moon had not

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 1>yet risen. The moon wouldn't rise until shortly after the crash,

0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 1>like literally ten minutes after the crash, what moon there

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.959
<v Speaker 1>was would have come up, so that that would have

0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 1>maybe helped things here. Like I said, they contact the

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 1>air traffic control, they say they're about forty minutes out.

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Sixteen minutes later they contact them again, uh, and let

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.919
<v Speaker 1>them know that they're ready to begin their descent. Yeah,

0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.720
<v Speaker 1>thirty five minutes something like that. Yeah, it's at this

0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.679
<v Speaker 1>point that I should explain something about how the plane

0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 1>was navigating to Maputo, and that is that they were

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 1>using a vhs omnidirectional radio range finder, which we're from here.

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to call a v O R because that's

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 1>much easier that actually ranged that just a beacon. It's

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.280
<v Speaker 1>a beacon, but that's that's part of the name in

0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 1>a nutshell with the v v O R is is

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a signal that's broadcast from a location that allows

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:36.200
<v Speaker 1>the pilot to determine their relation to that beacon. Yeah.

0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>And it's because there's a phase matched pair of signals

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.959
<v Speaker 1>that are being sent and through that match or mismatch,

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.199
<v Speaker 1>they can tell how far they are off in a

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:52.520
<v Speaker 1>three sixty degree circle. Is it like sonar um? No,

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 1>not exactly. Here's how it works. Yeah, no, and believe me,

0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 1>I I got a hold of our experts. Thank you

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.439
<v Speaker 1>to all of our experts for their how up with this?

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I really hope this makes sense. Here's what happens is

0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.119
<v Speaker 1>there is a signal I believe it's a pulsing signal

0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that is constantly being sent out like a pin at

0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 1>the same time, and that's being sent out in all

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.080
<v Speaker 1>directions at the same time. At the same time, there

0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.440
<v Speaker 1>is a second signal being sent out. And in the

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 1>old days it used to be from a antenna that

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.119
<v Speaker 1>was actually a physically rotating antenna, and it would rotate

0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.720
<v Speaker 1>twenty to thirty times a minute. But it is then

0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.720
<v Speaker 1>also put in a directional fashion shooting out that signal

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 1>so that they both start in line at true north.

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.159
<v Speaker 1>And so if it then rotates ninety degrees to the east,

0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.360
<v Speaker 1>it's a quarter out of sinc due south, it's now

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 1>it's now half out of sink and then three quarters

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.080
<v Speaker 1>and then they sink back up because the new rotation starts.

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 1>I hope that makes sense. Basically, it's a spiral on

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 1>top of another circle. Is how works. It allows them

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 1>to figure out where they are in relation to it.

0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 1>It probably makes sense enough for it to matter. Yeah.

0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.879
<v Speaker 1>And the other thing to remember is these are at

0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the airports what they're heading for, and other airports have

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.440
<v Speaker 1>them also, but on different radio frequencies. Correct, they are

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 1>not set on the same frequency. That would be confusing well.

0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 1>And and the thing is is that they also send

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 1>out back in the day, they would send out a

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Morris code signal at the same time that would say

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.880
<v Speaker 1>essentially this is Maputu Airport, over and over and over

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:30.639
<v Speaker 1>and over, so that you didn't tune into it and

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:32.399
<v Speaker 1>start to fly to it and then realize you were

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 1>going to the wrong airport. You could pick that code

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.160
<v Speaker 1>up right away, but would you use other airports signals

0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 1>to navigate off of, like knowing, hey, we're two hours

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 1>into the flight, we should be passing this city. I

0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.639
<v Speaker 1>under if I understand it correctly, Yes, okay. It is

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.800
<v Speaker 1>a method of navigation, not only to a specific destination,

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 1>but to know where you are in relation to other

0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 1>places as you pass through their signal path. You can

0:21:57.640 --> 0:21:59.920
<v Speaker 1>actually I just these compass and autopilot I think for

0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 1>most of it, and then just do corrections off when

0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.119
<v Speaker 1>you pass an airport. Maybe, but I just wanted to

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 1>make sure that that would be a thing that they

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 1>would be switching between frequencies during the flight. They could be. Yes, Um,

0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.399
<v Speaker 1>so the flight crew is using the Maputo v O

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 1>r UM. That's how they're guiding into the airport because

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.520
<v Speaker 1>that's where they're going. I don't know if they actually

0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 1>picked it up yet. They they were only half hours, Joe.

0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.600
<v Speaker 1>The vrs have a range of up to two miles,

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.840
<v Speaker 1>and they were forty minutes out, which made them about

0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.959
<v Speaker 1>sixty miles or so away from the airport, so they

0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.800
<v Speaker 1>were definitely in its range and they were definitely going

0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.480
<v Speaker 1>to be picking it up there flying that slow. Well,

0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.640
<v Speaker 1>they were, they were about to descend. You don't start

0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.119
<v Speaker 1>to send two miles out, do you. I don't know.

0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.280
<v Speaker 1>The point is they were, they were within it's it's

0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 1>It's envelope. They had definitely been picking it up, and

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.400
<v Speaker 1>they were they had tuned into it because that's where

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.280
<v Speaker 1>they were going to head to. They go ahead, and

0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>like I said, they tell air traffic control that they're

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.600
<v Speaker 1>going to start their descent. Air traffic control says, listen,

0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.160
<v Speaker 1>go ahead and tell us when you're at when your

0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.399
<v Speaker 1>altitude reaches three thousand feet or if you see our

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 1>runway lights, contact us then and then we'll talk. Yeah,

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.480
<v Speaker 1>I know, it's really funny. And if we're talking clear night, yes,

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 1>clear knight, not a cloudy night anything like that. The

0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 1>mystery really gets going at about nine ten at night

0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:35.440
<v Speaker 1>because that's when the plane, for a reason that nobody knows,

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.000
<v Speaker 1>made a thirty seven degree turn to the right, so

0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 1>it banked and turned west because it was headed south

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:49.280
<v Speaker 1>at that point, So now it's heading not southeast but southwest,

0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:54.960
<v Speaker 1>which nobody knows why that happened. On the cockpit voice recorder,

0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you can hear the captain remarking about it, to which

0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.040
<v Speaker 1>the navigator says, v O R indicates that way, okay,

0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and so that's what he says. So and it's significant,

0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:08.200
<v Speaker 1>right that it's a Soviet crew at this point. Is

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.320
<v Speaker 1>so presumably it's not a crew that's used to making

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.400
<v Speaker 1>this run. This seems like a sort of run that

0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.880
<v Speaker 1>that would be incorrect. This crew had been making this run.

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:19.000
<v Speaker 1>They had been flying in and out of this airport

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 1>quite a few times. It wasn't like it was their

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.119
<v Speaker 1>first time. Okay, that's weird. Yeah, it's it seems like

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 1>he would kind of be used to it. Yeah. Now,

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.480
<v Speaker 1>granted today we're a little spoiled because everybody uses GPS

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.840
<v Speaker 1>and it's so much more precise. But you know, they

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.359
<v Speaker 1>were like the instrument says go that way, go that way,

0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and it's a pretty big bank to make those it's

0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.680
<v Speaker 1>a pretty big course correction. Yeah, And essentially they would

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:45.640
<v Speaker 1>have had to believe they were like, you know, way

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.400
<v Speaker 1>way far off to the east. They would have had

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 1>to be heading out into the ocean by accident. Well,

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:53.680
<v Speaker 1>and they would have I mean, I'm sure that they

0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.119
<v Speaker 1>would have been used to seeing certain landmarks and that

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 1>geographic stuff, right, and so very true. Right, So even

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:02.800
<v Speaker 1>if the navigator is like, well it says to go

0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:04.520
<v Speaker 1>that way, you would think the pilot would be like,

0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:07.600
<v Speaker 1>but those are the mountains that should be there, like what,

0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it? Right? Yeah, it was dark, so

0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 1>that's the thing. As you guys said, there was no

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:17.200
<v Speaker 1>moon yet, and when they were flying there was navigational aids.

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 1>They weren't seeing things that they were expecting to be seeing,

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 1>like certain lights or certain um radio signals should have

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>been coming and they should been picking up certain things,

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and they were and where they were commenting on that

0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:32.320
<v Speaker 1>they were, and they believed that the power was out

0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 1>in the city, so they figured that, oh, the electricity

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.440
<v Speaker 1>must be out. I think the captain says something like,

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it's running dark, chaps, or something like that.

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:45.439
<v Speaker 1>It seems a little I guess it seems a little

0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:48.119
<v Speaker 1>odd to me that they would have made radio contact

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.520
<v Speaker 1>with the tower and not been like, oh, hey, by

0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:54.960
<v Speaker 1>the way, So they do because when they hit the

0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.160
<v Speaker 1>three thousand feet mark, they get ahold of the air

0:25:58.200 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 1>traffic control and they say, we're three thousand feet. And

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 1>by the way, we can't see the runway lights. Can

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.320
<v Speaker 1>you check the runway lights? Yeah, go double check that

0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:11.360
<v Speaker 1>they're on look out the window, buddy. Um. And they

0:26:11.359 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 1>actually asked that twice. So they asked them to check

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:19.359
<v Speaker 1>that twice. Um. They're in their descent. They think that they're,

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:21.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, within a thousand feet of the ground at

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:23.959
<v Speaker 1>this point, and they're ready to land, so they've dropped

0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:27.280
<v Speaker 1>their landing gear or lower the landing here I should say,

0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:29.360
<v Speaker 1>the thousand feet of the ground at that time. Were

0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.199
<v Speaker 1>they well, they thought they were. You know, if I remember,

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 1>I think that the power told them to descend to

0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 1>three thousand feet and stayed three thousand, and they had been.

0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 1>The problem was they had continued to descend, presuming that

0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:47.440
<v Speaker 1>they were on target and that in another thousand feet

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:50.439
<v Speaker 1>or so they'd be on the ground. The problem is,

0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 1>of course, they didn't stop at three thousand feet, even

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 1>though nobody confirmed that. Yeah, they kept saying, I don't

0:26:56.440 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 1>know what's going on here. Um, so they are, they're

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:04.920
<v Speaker 1>about twenty miles or twelve miles out or twenty kilometers

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:10.479
<v Speaker 1>out at this point, and then the ground proximity warnings

0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:13.359
<v Speaker 1>start going off, which is the warning that says, hey,

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:16.360
<v Speaker 1>the ground is right under you, pull up, but how

0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:21.880
<v Speaker 1>how far right under you? Okay, so right right under

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 1>you because I think the ground warning that you're going

0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:27.200
<v Speaker 1>to hit that house. Yeah, they went off, and they

0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:31.280
<v Speaker 1>actually descended another two hundred feet I think it was.

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:35.080
<v Speaker 1>They kept going down. And that's another thing that nobody

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:38.640
<v Speaker 1>can really panis to why they did that. They kept

0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:41.440
<v Speaker 1>going down even though the alarms going off. I mean,

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.239
<v Speaker 1>the crew is swearing they can't figure out what's going on.

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 1>They're not happy. I believe that. I believe they thought

0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:50.520
<v Speaker 1>the ground proximity alarm was just defective and they decided

0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:53.400
<v Speaker 1>that apparently, and they kept talking to the air traffic

0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 1>control for another twenty two seconds. Yeah, I mean, I

0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:00.199
<v Speaker 1>guess you know, if if your ground proximity thing is

0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:02.879
<v Speaker 1>going off, right, you would assume that either you're seeing

0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:06.159
<v Speaker 1>lights from the ground because you're pretty dang close to

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:10.680
<v Speaker 1>the ground, or your sensor is faulty and you're where

0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 1>you think you are and you believe that you're in

0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the spot that you have been in a hundred times

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:18.560
<v Speaker 1>so far. So this part is bad. Yeah. The problem

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.399
<v Speaker 1>was is that it turned out the ground proximity warning

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:25.680
<v Speaker 1>was right, It was not wrong. As I said, they

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 1>had the wheels down. The plane continued to descend, so

0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:33.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, the goes off. Twenty two seconds later, the

0:28:33.880 --> 0:28:38.720
<v Speaker 1>plane crashes into a hillside. So, as I understand it,

0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 1>what happened is the wheels and the belly of the

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:46.360
<v Speaker 1>craft hit the top of one of the hills in

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 1>the area that it was in. It bounced off of

0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 1>that hill into the next hill, didn't go nose first in,

0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 1>but you know, went into it, at which point one

0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 1>of the wings hit a tree and it starts tumbling.

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:03.680
<v Speaker 1>There was a total of forty four people on this plane.

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Nine of them survived, so thirty four of them there

0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:15.040
<v Speaker 1>thirty four including samhere Michelle, it was thirty four deaths

0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:17.720
<v Speaker 1>lone of there were forty four people and nine survived.

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, okay, so here's the here's the weird thing

0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:25.120
<v Speaker 1>about the numbers. Thank you for pointing that out, because

0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:27.800
<v Speaker 1>I remember reading this and then it caught me. Math

0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:32.160
<v Speaker 1>isn't my thing. But one of the people that survived

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.959
<v Speaker 1>the crash initially died from the injuries two months later,

0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:39.040
<v Speaker 1>so that's why it's okay, that's what screw me. Up.

0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 1>So there's where I did my math. Nine people survived initially,

0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.760
<v Speaker 1>but then one of them died two months later after that,

0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>so technically eight survivors to st Yeah yeah, no, not

0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.800
<v Speaker 1>not awesome. Um, but one of the one of the

0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:00.960
<v Speaker 1>people that was on there that we talked about was

0:30:01.000 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Samara Michelle's wife, Grasha Michelle, and you might recognize her

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 1>name because she would later go on many years later,

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 1>about a decade or more later, she married Nelson Mandela,

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 1>so she was his wife. It puts her in one

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>of those really unique categories as being the first first

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:27.040
<v Speaker 1>lady of two different nations, which is something that you know. Obviously,

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 1>she's the first that's never really happened before she and

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:32.280
<v Speaker 1>she was she was Nelson Mandela's second wife. Correct, it

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 1>was her second marriage and his second, which is fine. Yeah,

0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:39.560
<v Speaker 1>I think it's pretty obvious at this point that the

0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 1>plane was not in fact over Maputo Airport, Puto maybe

0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:46.719
<v Speaker 1>was not suffering some kind of weird power loss, and

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:51.040
<v Speaker 1>actually they had banked into the forest. Well what had

0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 1>happened is because of that thirty seven degree turn, they

0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:59.280
<v Speaker 1>ended up in the La Bombo Mountains, which is on

0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:05.680
<v Speaker 1>the border of Mozambeque, Swaziland and South Africa corners. Yeah,

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 1>it's a weird little Noman's land. It's about thirty five

0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 1>miles away from Maputo, which I guess would be fifty kilometers. Um,

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.720
<v Speaker 1>so it's yeah, it's a it's a weird hilly area

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 1>and the elevation is somewhere around feet. But it is

0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.760
<v Speaker 1>where they would expect had they been on the correct

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 1>course and then banked the way they did, That's where

0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:32.000
<v Speaker 1>they would expect them to have been, right. Okay, I

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 1>just want to make sure based on the time and

0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:36.600
<v Speaker 1>the speed and they're travel that is correct. I just

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:38.920
<v Speaker 1>want to make sure that we're saying that like that

0:31:39.240 --> 0:31:43.600
<v Speaker 1>made sense. The turn didn't make sense. But yeah, the

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 1>term is one of the big mysteries along with why

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:50.480
<v Speaker 1>they why they didn't didn't seems like with planes, um,

0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 1>the turn is often turn can spell disaster. Yeah. Now,

0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:01.400
<v Speaker 1>I think it's also going to be pretty obvious here

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 1>that you know, because they've been communicating with air traffic

0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 1>control when they suddenly stopped communicating and then didn't say

0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 1>anything again to Maputo, that they launched a huge search

0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and rescue operating because they knew their president was on

0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 1>that plane. Absolutely correct. The plane went down just after

0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:27.320
<v Speaker 1>nine o'clock at night. But because of where it crashed

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.160
<v Speaker 1>in that weird little Noman's land, that little tri corner

0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:35.880
<v Speaker 1>as you called it, Um, it wasn't until about midnight

0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:39.880
<v Speaker 1>that the first South African police officers arrived at the

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 1>crash scene. So you keep saying just after nine pm,

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:48.240
<v Speaker 1>I think it was like, yeah, I just want to

0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:50.960
<v Speaker 1>be actually, no, wait a second, if they made the

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:55.480
<v Speaker 1>turn at yeah, I guess it would be around when

0:32:55.520 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 1>the when their last communications were. I just yeah, because

0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:03.720
<v Speaker 1>for me, you know, a little after nine is not

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>and I will accept that. Um. So the plane goes down,

0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:13.800
<v Speaker 1>it's not till after midnight that the first South African

0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:18.160
<v Speaker 1>police officers get there. Yeah, several hours. And that's because

0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:20.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, obviously it's not a highly populated area. It's

0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:23.800
<v Speaker 1>not as if cell phones are ubiquitous. It's you know,

0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:27.120
<v Speaker 1>you gotta do things by driving to places to get phone,

0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:31.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, find people. Yeah, well there's not like that.

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:34.280
<v Speaker 1>There was a village right nearby, right, but the village

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:36.400
<v Speaker 1>had to then contact and then somebody had to come

0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:38.160
<v Speaker 1>out and they had to be like, wow, there was

0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 1>a big explosion there and then somebody had to take

0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:43.160
<v Speaker 1>them seriously, and so they get there about midnight. About

0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:46.720
<v Speaker 1>an hour later, the first medics arrive and it's not

0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 1>until quarter to four a m. That a medical chopper

0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:55.719
<v Speaker 1>actually arrives to transport the survivors to the hospital. So

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>these poor people have been on the ground literally for

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:05.120
<v Speaker 1>about six hours. So that didn't help the mortality rate

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:10.240
<v Speaker 1>among the crash victims. Now you're probably asking yourself, well,

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 1>during that time, what were the South Africans doing the

0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:17.120
<v Speaker 1>police what were they doing? And the answer would be

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:21.640
<v Speaker 1>they were collecting paperwork. Were they not also administering first Okay, yes,

0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:26.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm not being fair. I'm not being fair. We're doing

0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:29.759
<v Speaker 1>what they could pulling people out of the wrecords. But

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:33.399
<v Speaker 1>at the same time they were running around picking up

0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:36.399
<v Speaker 1>every single piece of paper that was floating around. They

0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:41.319
<v Speaker 1>were opening luggage to find any and everything of import

0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>that they then were carting away to copy because this

0:34:46.600 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 1>is an an intelligence bonanza at this point. Yeah. One

0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 1>of the things that they find and they sees is

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:59.400
<v Speaker 1>the cockpit voice recorder. They sees it under the auspice

0:34:59.520 --> 0:35:02.719
<v Speaker 1>of fear that it can be tampered with, which is

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:06.319
<v Speaker 1>the weirdest reasoning I've ever heard of. I mean, it

0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:09.839
<v Speaker 1>technically is their jurisdiction, but they, the South Africans did

0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of weird stuff during this. But I'm just

0:35:13.000 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 1>saying that, like I weird or not, we can say

0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:18.880
<v Speaker 1>it's like super nefaragous that they see this thing, but

0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:21.359
<v Speaker 1>it's their jurisdiction. Of course they're going to take it.

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.960
<v Speaker 1>You're right, Well, it's also besides, I mean, did they

0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:27.439
<v Speaker 1>see did they just did they just secure it? Yeah,

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:29.040
<v Speaker 1>they took it. Well I know they took it, but

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:31.839
<v Speaker 1>I mean it seems like you should take it and

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 1>put it somewhere, and you took it, wouldn't get it,

0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:38.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't take a while to get it back to he

0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.560
<v Speaker 1>had to do it under threat of legal action. Like

0:35:41.640 --> 0:35:46.160
<v Speaker 1>it's it's really hokey what happened here. But um, if

0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:50.040
<v Speaker 1>we move forward in time, I think it's around six am,

0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:52.600
<v Speaker 1>but maybe a little before that, the South African Minister

0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 1>of Ford Affairs Pick both arrives and they also by

0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 1>the way about this time or shortly thereafter, let a

0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 1>South African news crew on the site and pick both

0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:06.640
<v Speaker 1>of begins to talk to the camera crew and he

0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 1>starts making really strange statements, which in retrospect everybody said,

0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:15.400
<v Speaker 1>we're diversionary tactics, but they were still really weird because

0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:18.720
<v Speaker 1>he starts saying things like, well, obviously the flight crew

0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:22.799
<v Speaker 1>was drunk on vodka because they were Russian, or obviously

0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:26.640
<v Speaker 1>the plane was old and poorly kept, which didn't actually

0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:29.839
<v Speaker 1>turn out to be true. I'm gonna say something here,

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:33.319
<v Speaker 1>are you sure he wasn't just racist? I'm not going

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 1>to respond to that because I can't. I don't know,

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:39.279
<v Speaker 1>because this, like this sounds like somebody being like, well,

0:36:39.280 --> 0:36:42.040
<v Speaker 1>oh they were Russians. Oh well they were drunk on

0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:45.640
<v Speaker 1>vodka and like doing Mother Russia the favor like that,

0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:49.400
<v Speaker 1>like you know exactly where you're going. It had the

0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:53.160
<v Speaker 1>same thought myself. It could not necessary because the rescues

0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:57.520
<v Speaker 1>are white. It's racism. Okay, we're just gonna leave that alone.

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 1>He also continued to make other weird state ments. Uh.

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 1>He said that obviously the meeting that Samora Michelle had

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:09.400
<v Speaker 1>been at wash was meant to set up a plot

0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:14.040
<v Speaker 1>overthrow the government of Malawi. Uh. And then he also

0:37:14.280 --> 0:37:18.239
<v Speaker 1>made statements about how Samora Michelle were both his and

0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:22.040
<v Speaker 1>President Botha's dear friends. By the way, there might be

0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:26.440
<v Speaker 1>a bit of confusion there. Pick was the foreign uh

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:30.720
<v Speaker 1>foreign affairs minister. There was also the president at the time,

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:34.440
<v Speaker 1>who was of no relation of South Africa, also had

0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:38.360
<v Speaker 1>the last name of sort of. It was just a

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:41.440
<v Speaker 1>weird little thing there, But like I said, you know,

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:43.920
<v Speaker 1>none of his claims were true and nobody could ever

0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.719
<v Speaker 1>ever pin down why he was doing it because he

0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:48.800
<v Speaker 1>did it for like a year. At the same time,

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:51.760
<v Speaker 1>the bodies of everybody who died in the crash, they're

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:56.640
<v Speaker 1>collected and autopsies would eventually be done on four members.

0:37:56.719 --> 0:38:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Are actually a total of seven people, four of whom

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 1>were members of the flight crew, and then three others

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:07.879
<v Speaker 1>who were passengers on the plane. But there's for and

0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:11.880
<v Speaker 1>so there's that seven, and then there's also another group

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 1>of six bodies that were not autopsy that when they

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:21.240
<v Speaker 1>were returned to the Mozambican government, had these weird seven

0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:25.799
<v Speaker 1>m seven millimeter long cuts on their necks that were

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 1>stitched closed and they were done postmortem, and it's believed

0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 1>that that was done to collect blood samples. But it's

0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.399
<v Speaker 1>the weirdest way to collect blood samples. Since I don't

0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:41.640
<v Speaker 1>know needles or a thing. But maybe this is a

0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:45.520
<v Speaker 1>field method to do it. I don't know. The Karatid

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.000
<v Speaker 1>agree where that set. I believe so. Yes, and they

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:53.640
<v Speaker 1>were postmored postmortem. They were also proven according to the

0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:57.520
<v Speaker 1>Mozambique Medical Commission, they weren't the cause of death for

0:38:57.560 --> 0:38:59.640
<v Speaker 1>these people. So it's not as if somebody cut their

0:38:59.680 --> 0:39:02.000
<v Speaker 1>throws open and stitched them closed to keep it quiet.

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess for me, the like the weird part is

0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:09.239
<v Speaker 1>stitching them back closed. His horror. Yeah, like why you know,

0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:11.919
<v Speaker 1>like if they their dead bodies and you're not trying

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 1>to hide respect. I mean, that's the only thing I

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:16.400
<v Speaker 1>can come up with is maybe it's out of respect

0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:19.719
<v Speaker 1>to the dead. I mean, you're already like keeping from

0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:25.080
<v Speaker 1>leaking everywhere. I don't know, super glue man, you're laughing,

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:27.399
<v Speaker 1>but I mean, like that's like, I know, that's why

0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I was invetted. I don't I know. Um, Okay, So

0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:33.000
<v Speaker 1>we had already talked about here a little bit, the

0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 1>fact that there was a town nearby that was the

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:44.200
<v Speaker 1>town of Bezzini. And yeah, yeah, okay, this is not

0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:47.160
<v Speaker 1>my language, so I'm going to run with that is Bazzini. Um,

0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:50.439
<v Speaker 1>and those people did the people of that village did

0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:53.240
<v Speaker 1>go to the site, but they also make claims about

0:39:53.280 --> 0:39:57.399
<v Speaker 1>how when the soldiers arrived they chase them away, which

0:39:57.440 --> 0:39:59.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't. You got to secure the scene, right, Yeah,

0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:02.319
<v Speaker 1>that's exactly my point. I don't. I don't find that

0:40:02.520 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 1>bit weird suspicious. Okay, So by the way, um, we

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:10.799
<v Speaker 1>should probably go back to Mozambique for a second, because

0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:13.759
<v Speaker 1>they're still looking for their president and it's not till

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.600
<v Speaker 1>ten to seven in the morning that the South African

0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:20.160
<v Speaker 1>government lets them know that they found the plane and

0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:21.920
<v Speaker 1>then they told him it was in a different spot,

0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:27.680
<v Speaker 1>did kilometers away the different spot? Things suspicious? The you know,

0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:31.759
<v Speaker 1>waiting realistically a couple hours. I mean, I don't know

0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:35.800
<v Speaker 1>how fast ward travels that, oh, especially right we're talking

0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:40.040
<v Speaker 1>like analog days. The phone still is a thing. But

0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:42.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. But I'm saying that, like, Okay, so

0:40:42.840 --> 0:40:45.360
<v Speaker 1>plane goes missing, right, so your air controller is going

0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.320
<v Speaker 1>to call your government and you're going to mobilize your military.

0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:51.759
<v Speaker 1>You're not going to call every single branch of the

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:55.640
<v Speaker 1>police in all of the country surroundings. So I will

0:40:55.920 --> 0:40:59.480
<v Speaker 1>rebut that a little bit, which is that there foreign

0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:02.719
<v Speaker 1>ministers had gotten ahold of the South Africans to let

0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:05.840
<v Speaker 1>them know. So the South African government knows this but

0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:12.440
<v Speaker 1>gets a call ethics four or five in the morning saying, hey,

0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:15.800
<v Speaker 1>we found this plane and a crash and we're pretty

0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:18.520
<v Speaker 1>sure the president of Mozambeeque is on it. But we're

0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:22.080
<v Speaker 1>assuming that. Um, the people who were contacted in the

0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:26.440
<v Speaker 1>South African government were also likes well that they were

0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:30.359
<v Speaker 1>letting right. So at that point they could have turned

0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:33.279
<v Speaker 1>around and said, we think we found your plane, but

0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:38.440
<v Speaker 1>we're I'm just saying that, like you're you're attributing. I

0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 1>just think it could be bad communication. It could be

0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:43.280
<v Speaker 1>also that they just wanted to give like wait until

0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:47.120
<v Speaker 1>people were up, because at this point, planes down, people

0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:49.759
<v Speaker 1>are dead. Just let him sleep in for a few

0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:54.480
<v Speaker 1>more hours. Maybe they were just being considerate college dorm rules. Okay,

0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:57.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that is less likely than like bad communication,

0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.480
<v Speaker 1>because like if they're I mean, they're if if they've

0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:04.360
<v Speaker 1>been communicating, hey we lost our president, they're already awake.

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Everyone knows they're awake. But yeah, okay, well, let's just

0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:16.480
<v Speaker 1>assuming that they wanted a few extra hours just to

0:42:16.719 --> 0:42:19.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, gather up more intail. And I think that's

0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:21.720
<v Speaker 1>what I think. That's what it is. They were busy

0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:24.840
<v Speaker 1>photo copying and photographing everything they could get their hands

0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:27.399
<v Speaker 1>and making weird cuts and bodies right. Well, that didn't

0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:33.320
<v Speaker 1>happen till later the an investigation is launched into this crash.

0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:37.200
<v Speaker 1>This is based on the Chicago Convention, which was agreed

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 1>to by the countries in that area of several years prior.

0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:44.960
<v Speaker 1>The crash was investigated jointly by the countries of South

0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:48.239
<v Speaker 1>Africa because that's where the plane had crashed, by the

0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:52.600
<v Speaker 1>country of Mozambique because it was their plane, and by

0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:56.200
<v Speaker 1>the Soviet Union because they were the manufacturer of the plane.

0:42:56.600 --> 0:43:00.760
<v Speaker 1>So we've got three organizations involved in this joint investigation.

0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 1>But it didn't last very long because both the Mozambecon

0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:09.160
<v Speaker 1>and the Soviet delegations pulled out because they felt like

0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 1>the South Africans just weren't involving them. They were they

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:14.719
<v Speaker 1>were cutting them short on things, they weren't giving them

0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:18.160
<v Speaker 1>all the information. So in the end it ended up

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:22.359
<v Speaker 1>being a South African investigation. It was headed up by

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:26.399
<v Speaker 1>Judge Cecil margot Uh and it's commonly referred to as

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:29.840
<v Speaker 1>the Margot Commission, and that name might sound a little

0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:32.960
<v Speaker 1>familiar to anybody who's listening to this podcast, because if

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:36.720
<v Speaker 1>you remember the seven crash of South African Airlines flight,

0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:43.040
<v Speaker 1>we covered that while back. The Margot Commission also investigated

0:43:43.080 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 1>that crash. So there's a weird another weird connection. And

0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:49.720
<v Speaker 1>the longer we do this, the more connections between every story.

0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, they're all connected. I was just gonna say,

0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 1>it's the Octavius. Oh man, I'm not as young and

0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:05.840
<v Speaker 1>quick as you once were. Whipper snapper already, um so

0:44:06.760 --> 0:44:14.560
<v Speaker 1>moving it was swamp gas, right? They did not because

0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:17.640
<v Speaker 1>there was a swamp nearby. No, um no. The Margot

0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Commission actually concluded that the whole thing was caused by

0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:24.760
<v Speaker 1>crew error. Uh they were. They said that the crew

0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:27.520
<v Speaker 1>was negligent in their duties, which is why they made

0:44:27.960 --> 0:44:31.760
<v Speaker 1>both the turn and why they didn't follow the procedure

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:35.719
<v Speaker 1>when the ground proximity warnings went off. Basically, they're saying

0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:37.480
<v Speaker 1>there was no reason for them to turn. That was

0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:40.719
<v Speaker 1>a bad move and they should have stopped descending or

0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:46.879
<v Speaker 1>pulled up when the warnings went off. Well I would too.

0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:50.440
<v Speaker 1>This might be where Russian technology quality comes, quality control

0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:54.040
<v Speaker 1>comes into because it comes into play because they might

0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:57.160
<v Speaker 1>have thought it's just it's just not working right, you know,

0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:01.640
<v Speaker 1>because the crew itself, the ground proximity along the crew

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:04.920
<v Speaker 1>themselves thinking that about the because I think in the

0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:07.200
<v Speaker 1>faulty part, yeah, I mean, if that thing is going off,

0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the only reason you're not going to pull up unless

0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:11.480
<v Speaker 1>you're drunk on vodka. Course, And the only reason you're

0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:13.759
<v Speaker 1>not going to pull up is if you think it's

0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:18.719
<v Speaker 1>just yeah, I guess, uh, well, I'll wait intil theory,

0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:21.120
<v Speaker 1>because you know, what the thing is that it's funny

0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:23.200
<v Speaker 1>you say that because there is some stuff in the commission.

0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:26.520
<v Speaker 1>But the Soviets themselves, they were not happy with the

0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:30.320
<v Speaker 1>results of the Margo Commission, and they submitted a minority

0:45:30.360 --> 0:45:35.600
<v Speaker 1>report of their own, and that is where they they

0:45:35.640 --> 0:45:38.720
<v Speaker 1>put out or put forward the idea that the plane

0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:44.360
<v Speaker 1>was actually led off course intentionally by a decoy v

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:47.240
<v Speaker 1>O R. So that that signal we talked about before

0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:51.759
<v Speaker 1>somebody spoofed it and led them astray. That really didn't

0:45:51.760 --> 0:45:54.840
<v Speaker 1>get a lot of traction at that time, But fifteen

0:45:54.880 --> 0:46:00.239
<v Speaker 1>years later the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was open. Yeah,

0:46:00.280 --> 0:46:03.640
<v Speaker 1>and I don't so the TRC was set up after

0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:08.839
<v Speaker 1>the apartheid government fell apart, and from the way I

0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:12.080
<v Speaker 1>understand it, what it did is it looked into situations

0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:18.399
<v Speaker 1>where humans right violations were made with no care by

0:46:18.400 --> 0:46:21.879
<v Speaker 1>the South African government, and they were they would help

0:46:22.320 --> 0:46:26.840
<v Speaker 1>do what they could, either documented or possibly fixed, do

0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:29.399
<v Speaker 1>what they could. Now, I don't know why they got

0:46:29.480 --> 0:46:32.560
<v Speaker 1>involved in this case short of the fact that they

0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:37.440
<v Speaker 1>that Mandela's now wife was involved with it, or the

0:46:37.480 --> 0:46:40.640
<v Speaker 1>fact that people have been saying for years that the

0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:45.320
<v Speaker 1>South African government was responsible for the doubting of this plane.

0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:49.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, they they actually gave a little bit of

0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:51.920
<v Speaker 1>credence to the idea that there was a decoy v

0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:54.920
<v Speaker 1>O R, whereas the Margot Commission completely poo pooed that.

0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Um so, I mean, I don't know that. The other

0:46:59.800 --> 0:47:03.239
<v Speaker 1>thing that they did do is they couldn't confirm that

0:47:03.239 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 1>there was a decoy. But the other thing that they

0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:10.160
<v Speaker 1>did do is they really throw dirt at the South

0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:13.240
<v Speaker 1>African government and kind of said maybe they knew something

0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:15.960
<v Speaker 1>more than they had led on. By the fact that

0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:19.480
<v Speaker 1>it had been confirmed that the South African government had

0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:23.960
<v Speaker 1>been tracking Michelle's plane prior to the turn, so they

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:26.600
<v Speaker 1>had known where it was for quite a while, and

0:47:26.800 --> 0:47:30.080
<v Speaker 1>they didn't. They didn't. They never contacted him to say, hey,

0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:33.239
<v Speaker 1>hey guys, you know your way off course, or be

0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:38.480
<v Speaker 1>hey guys, you're in South African airspace, or see, hey guys,

0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:41.799
<v Speaker 1>you should stop going down there's a mountain there. Well,

0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:43.640
<v Speaker 1>first of all, they didn't know what the flight was,

0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:48.560
<v Speaker 1>the flight subjective was then, and and it's not their job,

0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:51.279
<v Speaker 1>and the crash just they didn't. They didn't spend any

0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:56.560
<v Speaker 1>time in South African airspace to speak of. I'm in

0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:59.440
<v Speaker 1>total agreement with that. The they should have called as

0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:03.520
<v Speaker 1>soon as they hit South African airspace is just bad

0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:05.440
<v Speaker 1>to me because it doesn't make any sense. They were

0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:08.640
<v Speaker 1>literally in South African air sprace for I believe about

0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:13.120
<v Speaker 1>thirty seconds at the speed they were trapped. So there's

0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:15.480
<v Speaker 1>not a there's not a whole lot to that. Okay,

0:48:15.520 --> 0:48:18.600
<v Speaker 1>So now let's get into theories. And I've got our

0:48:18.680 --> 0:48:22.880
<v Speaker 1>theories broken up into two sections, very simple, real or

0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:27.279
<v Speaker 1>not real. No, and don't say suicide because that's not

0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:31.680
<v Speaker 1>a theory either. Know that the sections are who done

0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:35.680
<v Speaker 1>it and how? And the who done its section is

0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:40.600
<v Speaker 1>actually really really easy because there are so many players

0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:45.040
<v Speaker 1>involved in the area at the time that anybody could

0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:49.960
<v Speaker 1>have benefited from taken Michelle out. He had already survived

0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:55.160
<v Speaker 1>several assassiny allegedly, I actually should say that allegedly had

0:48:55.200 --> 0:49:01.440
<v Speaker 1>survived several assassination tempts in in the recent past. The

0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:05.960
<v Speaker 1>South Africa government didn't like him because a he was

0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:10.360
<v Speaker 1>he was a socialist. Uh. There was also the racial

0:49:10.400 --> 0:49:16.800
<v Speaker 1>aspect of the apart Aid government versus Michelle. There's also Rhinomo.

0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:20.319
<v Speaker 1>They would have had the group that was opposed to

0:49:20.320 --> 0:49:23.719
<v Speaker 1>the government since seventy six. They had a stake in

0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:26.160
<v Speaker 1>the game because if if they took out the president,

0:49:26.560 --> 0:49:29.840
<v Speaker 1>maybe they can take out the socialist government or you know,

0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:34.120
<v Speaker 1>move themselves into positions of power. Um. There's the president

0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:39.360
<v Speaker 1>of Malawi who didn't like Michelle because Michelle had the

0:49:39.360 --> 0:49:41.279
<v Speaker 1>president of Malawe. What this guy had been doing is

0:49:41.320 --> 0:49:42.880
<v Speaker 1>he's been doing with a lot of people. Had he

0:49:42.960 --> 0:49:48.520
<v Speaker 1>been sheltering NAMO soldiers. And as retaliation, Michelle had said,

0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:51.200
<v Speaker 1>if you keep doing that, I Am going to put

0:49:51.560 --> 0:49:54.319
<v Speaker 1>missiles all along the border of my country and any

0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:57.000
<v Speaker 1>of your planes that come into our airspace will be

0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:00.839
<v Speaker 1>shot down, which effectively would shut down a lot of

0:50:01.000 --> 0:50:04.000
<v Speaker 1>trade for them because things were flying in and out

0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:07.200
<v Speaker 1>of the country. So that guy didn't like him. There's

0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:09.440
<v Speaker 1>also he had so one of the things that you

0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:12.040
<v Speaker 1>will here said is that he was going home that

0:50:12.120 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 1>day so that the next meeting he the next day

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:17.400
<v Speaker 1>he could have a meeting to restructure both the government

0:50:17.560 --> 0:50:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and the military. Because it turns out socialist systems are

0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:27.120
<v Speaker 1>notorious for corruption what and he was one of those

0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:31.400
<v Speaker 1>few guys that in that kind of regime didn't stand

0:50:31.440 --> 0:50:34.960
<v Speaker 1>for that. He had had evidently gone after people before

0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:41.200
<v Speaker 1>who were accused of being corrupt, got rid of competitors

0:50:41.200 --> 0:50:44.080
<v Speaker 1>by accusing the corruption there. That is a very good point,

0:50:44.080 --> 0:50:46.000
<v Speaker 1>But I'm going to make him sound much more noble

0:50:46.080 --> 0:50:48.960
<v Speaker 1>than that and continue to say that he fought corruption

0:50:49.000 --> 0:50:52.440
<v Speaker 1>in his government. But the point is those people may

0:50:52.480 --> 0:50:56.319
<v Speaker 1>have said, uh no, he is not taking me out

0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of this cush push chair that I'm in. I'm taking

0:50:59.440 --> 0:51:01.319
<v Speaker 1>that plane. Yeah. The thing about it is when your

0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:03.719
<v Speaker 1>president for life, you know that sooner or later people

0:51:04.000 --> 0:51:07.879
<v Speaker 1>we're just gonna keep piling up enemies for life. That's

0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:09.440
<v Speaker 1>the interesting thing. But he might as well have been

0:51:09.480 --> 0:51:11.279
<v Speaker 1>effectively he was he was. He was. He was in

0:51:11.360 --> 0:51:15.520
<v Speaker 1>office for what eleven years it was it was socialists,

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.920
<v Speaker 1>So there were party elections. But yeah, I mean those

0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:21.520
<v Speaker 1>those are easy to rig I'm not I'm not foolish

0:51:21.600 --> 0:51:24.200
<v Speaker 1>enough to think that they were. They were free elections.

0:51:24.360 --> 0:51:27.080
<v Speaker 1>But I get what you're and the problem with who

0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:30.480
<v Speaker 1>done it? Could have been anybody. I mean it literally

0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:33.600
<v Speaker 1>could have been anybody, because there was things to be

0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:36.360
<v Speaker 1>benefited but for or gained by a lot of people.

0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:41.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm doubting them the least. Oh yeah, no, I really

0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:43.640
<v Speaker 1>think the Soviets, based on what they did, I would

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.560
<v Speaker 1>say they probably didn't do it. I would say that

0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:49.239
<v Speaker 1>they did interfere at a certain by putting out the

0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:52.040
<v Speaker 1>accusations at the South Africans, and we'll be talking about this,

0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:55.200
<v Speaker 1>you know that they duped them into crashing. They were

0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:59.439
<v Speaker 1>definitely stirring the pot. And then there was a lot

0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:02.239
<v Speaker 1>of stirring the pot. Yeah, yeah, I was delivered on

0:52:02.280 --> 0:52:05.719
<v Speaker 1>your part. I doubt they even believed it. You know. Well,

0:52:05.800 --> 0:52:09.200
<v Speaker 1>let's uh, let's go ahead and talk about the first

0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:13.080
<v Speaker 1>theory of how so this is actually along the lines

0:52:13.080 --> 0:52:15.239
<v Speaker 1>of what Joe was talking about, which is that the

0:52:15.239 --> 0:52:18.080
<v Speaker 1>theory is is that indeed this was crew error and

0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:20.680
<v Speaker 1>it oh, actually this, since this is a different one,

0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I apologize from what Joe was saying. This is that

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:27.200
<v Speaker 1>it was Crewe error and that they did in fact

0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:30.319
<v Speaker 1>make a mistake with the v o R because they

0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:32.800
<v Speaker 1>was just drunk on vodka. No, no, no, all of

0:52:32.800 --> 0:52:35.239
<v Speaker 1>that was proven wrong. No, you know that's wrong. That's

0:52:35.239 --> 0:52:40.080
<v Speaker 1>what we were at. I'm positive I learn that there

0:52:40.080 --> 0:52:42.279
<v Speaker 1>are autopsies turned up a fair amount of alcohol in

0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:45.640
<v Speaker 1>their systems, but of course, on your body decomposes, it

0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:48.080
<v Speaker 1>was nothing outside of the range of what you would

0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:52.359
<v Speaker 1>find in a normal decomposing body. It's absolutely correct. So

0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:56.160
<v Speaker 1>the the official line or belief of the Margot Commission

0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:59.840
<v Speaker 1>is that the crew had made the error of setting

0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:02.880
<v Speaker 1>one of their two v o R receivers to the

0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:09.280
<v Speaker 1>wrong frequency. Maputo uses hundred and twelve point seven Mega hurts.

0:53:09.840 --> 0:53:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Matsafa Airport, which is a hundred and twenty miles away

0:53:12.680 --> 0:53:17.120
<v Speaker 1>in Swaziland, uses a hundred and twelve point three Mega hurts.

0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:19.759
<v Speaker 1>The two airports that are kind of close together, I

0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:22.719
<v Speaker 1>would think that would space them further apart. Yeah, I

0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:25.880
<v Speaker 1>I really I looked at that. Mc guys, really come on.

0:53:27.320 --> 0:53:31.400
<v Speaker 1>But the Margot Commission blamed the mistake on the design

0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:34.440
<v Speaker 1>of the receiver in the airplane, saying that the numbers

0:53:34.520 --> 0:53:39.000
<v Speaker 1>three and seven the way they were displayed, looked similar.

0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:41.560
<v Speaker 1>And I'll be honest, I've never seen an image of

0:53:41.600 --> 0:53:44.799
<v Speaker 1>their v O R receiver, um, so I can't I

0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:48.799
<v Speaker 1>can't support that or deny it at all. But I

0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:51.640
<v Speaker 1>also kind of think that that's maybe the commission having

0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:55.000
<v Speaker 1>a bit of bias against the way the Russian plane

0:53:55.040 --> 0:53:59.360
<v Speaker 1>was designed and the Russians themselves, the Soviets. Maybe I

0:54:00.560 --> 0:54:03.200
<v Speaker 1>certainly they were aheaded in the right direction, but they

0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:06.040
<v Speaker 1>were looking at that v O R A that a now, well,

0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:08.720
<v Speaker 1>well what they're saying though, what the what the Margot

0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Commission is saying is that they were on the wrong frequency.

0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:14.319
<v Speaker 1>So if you look at the map and the trajectory

0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:18.880
<v Speaker 1>that they were on, they were actually heading in a

0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:23.759
<v Speaker 1>pretty a pretty straight course to Matsafa. So it's it's

0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:27.040
<v Speaker 1>understandable why they came to that conclusion. But if you

0:54:27.080 --> 0:54:29.759
<v Speaker 1>were listening, you may have noticed that I said that

0:54:30.040 --> 0:54:33.920
<v Speaker 1>one of their two receivers, this plane had two v

0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:38.160
<v Speaker 1>O R receivers, and when the investigators looked at the

0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:40.040
<v Speaker 1>second one, they found that it was set to the

0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:44.480
<v Speaker 1>correct channel, which was Matt Puto's signal, but they wasn't

0:54:44.480 --> 0:54:48.480
<v Speaker 1>one of them, the backup. Yeah, they didn't use them

0:54:48.560 --> 0:54:52.319
<v Speaker 1>both all the time. And so it seems that what

0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.000
<v Speaker 1>they had done is they had set the they picked

0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:57.640
<v Speaker 1>up their their trajectory based off the v O R

0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:02.040
<v Speaker 1>or their their course, they adjust did and from there

0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:06.080
<v Speaker 1>they turned on probably the autopilot, which just had a

0:55:06.120 --> 0:55:09.839
<v Speaker 1>course heading, you know, and the autopilot took care of

0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:14.040
<v Speaker 1>the next however long it was, which would have meant that,

0:55:15.120 --> 0:55:17.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, when they made that turn that put them

0:55:17.719 --> 0:55:22.200
<v Speaker 1>on a heading of two degrees, if anybody had happened

0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:24.799
<v Speaker 1>to look at the backup, they might have realized that

0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.960
<v Speaker 1>they were completely off course. And so that's where the

0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:31.600
<v Speaker 1>Margot commission is saying, is that they failed their duties

0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.560
<v Speaker 1>because they picked up the wrong signal and didn't look

0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:38.359
<v Speaker 1>at the other one or check it again later on. Yeah.

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:40.839
<v Speaker 1>So they they've got the autopilot going for a long

0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:43.000
<v Speaker 1>time and then when they come off that bearing and

0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:44.879
<v Speaker 1>turn onto the v O R and they realized, oh,

0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:46.480
<v Speaker 1>we must have been blown off by a cross and

0:55:46.640 --> 0:55:50.160
<v Speaker 1>blown way off course. And so understandably they made that

0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:52.440
<v Speaker 1>course of joke and then they turned the autopilot back

0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:56.279
<v Speaker 1>on that. Yeah, so it's I don't know, Yeah, I

0:55:56.320 --> 0:55:59.360
<v Speaker 1>guess for me, I mean the fact that they reached

0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:02.719
<v Speaker 1>out a pup of times to say like, hey, are

0:56:02.760 --> 0:56:07.000
<v Speaker 1>your lights on? Though, like they had questions, right they

0:56:07.239 --> 0:56:11.319
<v Speaker 1>there was something in them, Yeah, there was something that

0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:13.320
<v Speaker 1>was in the in them that was saying like, okay,

0:56:13.320 --> 0:56:15.120
<v Speaker 1>but we should be seeing lights, like these are the

0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:18.080
<v Speaker 1>things we should be seeing. Why are we not seeing

0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:20.560
<v Speaker 1>those things? And to you know, as I understand it,

0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:22.680
<v Speaker 1>they were getting feedback from the tower that was like

0:56:23.200 --> 0:56:25.279
<v Speaker 1>all the lights are one they were. They were radio

0:56:25.280 --> 0:56:27.799
<v Speaker 1>communication like what what do you mean you don't see

0:56:27.840 --> 0:56:30.359
<v Speaker 1>the lights? Like, if you're where you're supposed to be,

0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:32.480
<v Speaker 1>you should be seeing the lights. I think the tower

0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:35.920
<v Speaker 1>responded to the light question after the second request. They

0:56:35.920 --> 0:56:38.320
<v Speaker 1>didn't do it right away, right, But I mean they're

0:56:38.360 --> 0:56:41.080
<v Speaker 1>managing a ton of air traffic, right, you don't expect

0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:44.239
<v Speaker 1>But I think, you know, for me, that's that's where

0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:47.560
<v Speaker 1>the problem comes in. Is if they were being totally negligent,

0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:52.560
<v Speaker 1>maybe they're being a little lazy. You're like, whatever, this

0:56:52.640 --> 0:56:54.560
<v Speaker 1>is the right thing. But if you've made the run

0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:56.239
<v Speaker 1>a hundred times, you know what to look for. And

0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:58.440
<v Speaker 1>if you're not seeing those things, and you're even like

0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.240
<v Speaker 1>mentioning that you're not of alarm bells and you should

0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.279
<v Speaker 1>be doing something. And then when alarm bells that hey

0:57:04.360 --> 0:57:06.960
<v Speaker 1>you're at a weird altitude go off, maybe you should

0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:08.960
<v Speaker 1>be listening to those things. And so, by the way,

0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:11.080
<v Speaker 1>they didn't. They don't have Did they have air traffic

0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:14.720
<v Speaker 1>control in Mozambique or did they have it in those days?

0:57:15.040 --> 0:57:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Were their radars operating? Oh? Did were they? Is anybody

0:57:19.440 --> 0:57:22.360
<v Speaker 1>tracking their plan just as the South Africans, I don't know,

0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:26.160
<v Speaker 1>To be honest, I've never that's a great question, and

0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:29.520
<v Speaker 1>I've never actually seen anything that said anything about that.

0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:34.080
<v Speaker 1>I will mention that there's a lot of controversy over

0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the records of the Maputo air Traffic Control because things

0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:43.200
<v Speaker 1>like their tapes of the conversation are gone. They were

0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:48.600
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote lost or disappeared, were just recorded over we used. Yeah, well,

0:57:48.600 --> 0:57:50.160
<v Speaker 1>and you know, I don't I don't know if they

0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:54.080
<v Speaker 1>were actually saving anything. I doubt that they had the

0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:58.200
<v Speaker 1>capability at the time to digitally save anything. So it's

0:57:58.200 --> 0:58:00.480
<v Speaker 1>not as if you know, today you all we see

0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:02.360
<v Speaker 1>this thing where you can play back the radar to

0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:04.360
<v Speaker 1>see what the heck was popping up. I don't think

0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:07.800
<v Speaker 1>they they had I don't know that technology was available,

0:58:08.480 --> 0:58:10.680
<v Speaker 1>but a sorry as audio tapes, so you know you

0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:15.320
<v Speaker 1>definitely save those. Well they tried, so they just appeared

0:58:16.760 --> 0:58:20.560
<v Speaker 1>they went the way of the Dodo. Okay. So I

0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:23.760
<v Speaker 1>don't know about this one. I'm I have mixed feelings

0:58:23.840 --> 0:58:28.320
<v Speaker 1>on the crew error especially Yeah, I mean, it sounds

0:58:28.320 --> 0:58:31.480
<v Speaker 1>like they realized that something was wrong. They may not

0:58:31.560 --> 0:58:35.960
<v Speaker 1>have reacted in time. But yeah, yeah, I know, I know,

0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:39.360
<v Speaker 1>I think that no matter how you cut it, even

0:58:39.400 --> 0:58:41.720
<v Speaker 1>if even if there was some skullduggery on a part

0:58:41.720 --> 0:58:45.040
<v Speaker 1>of certain parties, the crew is still screwed up. They

0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:48.760
<v Speaker 1>may yeah, they may have been a little uh lax

0:58:49.080 --> 0:58:51.880
<v Speaker 1>in their reactions. If that if what you're going out

0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:54.880
<v Speaker 1>is there. Yeah, so let's talk about skull duggery. Let's

0:58:54.920 --> 0:58:57.560
<v Speaker 1>talk about the false decoy or a false v o

0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:01.160
<v Speaker 1>R decoy v o R because, like I said, the

0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Soviets and their minority report, they said that they had

0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:09.240
<v Speaker 1>to have been led astray and led into South Africa,

0:59:09.400 --> 0:59:12.640
<v Speaker 1>and in their in the minority report, they get weirdly

0:59:12.800 --> 0:59:16.160
<v Speaker 1>specific and say that obviously, and I'm using quotes here,

0:59:16.400 --> 0:59:20.480
<v Speaker 1>obviously it was built using technology that was provided by

0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the Israeli Intelligent Agents, which intelligence agency. Which that's just

0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:30.000
<v Speaker 1>that's an odd massade. Yeah, it's something about the massade.

0:59:30.000 --> 0:59:33.000
<v Speaker 1>It's it's a weird thing to to slide in there.

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:36.920
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, okay, well yeah, I mean that this at

0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:39.600
<v Speaker 1>this time, you know that the Soviets were still they

0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:42.880
<v Speaker 1>were trying to stir the pot everywhere, included in in

0:59:43.120 --> 0:59:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the Israelis at that time were allies of the South

0:59:45.400 --> 0:59:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Africans and so they were they were always trying to

0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:50.919
<v Speaker 1>stir up trouble in the Arab world too, so work

0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:52.680
<v Speaker 1>in Israel, and I can see why they would do that.

0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:54.560
<v Speaker 1>That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that. So

0:59:54.760 --> 1:00:00.080
<v Speaker 1>from from that point on though, the claims of a

1:00:00.120 --> 1:00:05.240
<v Speaker 1>decoy or mobile vel v o R began to come

1:00:05.320 --> 1:00:09.000
<v Speaker 1>up and surface, and I did some digging into this

1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:13.040
<v Speaker 1>with some online sources and then also by reaching out

1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:15.080
<v Speaker 1>to some of our experts who I mentioned a little

1:00:15.080 --> 1:00:17.160
<v Speaker 1>bit before. So I do want to reach it. I

1:00:17.240 --> 1:00:21.040
<v Speaker 1>do want to say thank you to one Zach Kim

1:00:21.120 --> 1:00:25.040
<v Speaker 1>and Ronnie all of those experts. You guys saw the

1:00:25.080 --> 1:00:29.480
<v Speaker 1>emails back and forth, and yeah, yeah, there was there

1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:31.120
<v Speaker 1>was some high math in there that I had to

1:00:31.160 --> 1:00:34.800
<v Speaker 1>work on for a few days, but it made sense

1:00:34.840 --> 1:00:36.840
<v Speaker 1>and I couldn't have done it without these folks. Thank you.

1:00:36.960 --> 1:00:38.760
<v Speaker 1>This is why we have experts. That's the thing that

1:00:38.800 --> 1:00:40.920
<v Speaker 1>I've been noticing a little bit about our experts though,

1:00:40.920 --> 1:00:44.439
<v Speaker 1>as they assume we know too much. Like sometimes I'll

1:00:44.440 --> 1:00:47.360
<v Speaker 1>respond with like a really interesting answer, but you're like,

1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:51.960
<v Speaker 1>but I need to google like five of these, so

1:00:52.000 --> 1:00:54.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what any of that means. Thank you,

1:00:55.040 --> 1:00:59.080
<v Speaker 1>I think, but thank you to everybody because what that

1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:02.120
<v Speaker 1>did is that help me understand better how a v

1:01:02.280 --> 1:01:05.520
<v Speaker 1>o R worked, and even more so, how you could

1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:08.800
<v Speaker 1>spoof one. So that was really important that you don't

1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:11.440
<v Speaker 1>find it a lot of the online stuff. Now. In

1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:14.640
<v Speaker 1>two thousand three, there was a South African man named

1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Hanslow who came forward. He was near the end of

1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:21.800
<v Speaker 1>his jail sentence and he was in jail for crimes

1:01:21.840 --> 1:01:25.760
<v Speaker 1>committed outside of the regime's instructions, which I have to

1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:29.960
<v Speaker 1>take means he went a little trigger happy, probably, but

1:01:30.360 --> 1:01:33.800
<v Speaker 1>he said that he was part of a South African

1:01:33.840 --> 1:01:37.080
<v Speaker 1>team of special forces that were at the crash site.

1:01:37.120 --> 1:01:40.640
<v Speaker 1>The night of the crash, he was on a backup team.

1:01:40.960 --> 1:01:43.959
<v Speaker 1>The primary team was running the decoy v O R.

1:01:44.360 --> 1:01:47.640
<v Speaker 1>He was in a backup team that was there with

1:01:47.960 --> 1:01:52.920
<v Speaker 1>RPGs with the express intent of if the plane doesn't

1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:56.000
<v Speaker 1>crash on its own, it doesn't take the bait, shoot

1:01:56.040 --> 1:01:58.280
<v Speaker 1>it down. I don't think an RPG is going to

1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:02.240
<v Speaker 1>be really any good for taking a plane down. I

1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:09.560
<v Speaker 1>mean maybe, like, yeah, listen, I played too many video

1:02:09.600 --> 1:02:12.760
<v Speaker 1>games and they all go boom everything. Yeah, I know

1:02:12.840 --> 1:02:14.800
<v Speaker 1>in a video game, I can take an airplane down

1:02:14.840 --> 1:02:18.040
<v Speaker 1>with a ten millimeter It's actually we're going to talk

1:02:18.040 --> 1:02:20.200
<v Speaker 1>about the little things that you can bring a plane

1:02:20.200 --> 1:02:22.600
<v Speaker 1>down with because it's actually kind of scary how easy

1:02:22.640 --> 1:02:25.280
<v Speaker 1>it is. But no, you're a surface air missile. So

1:02:25.320 --> 1:02:27.800
<v Speaker 1>they are there with armaments that would take it down

1:02:27.880 --> 1:02:31.680
<v Speaker 1>if if it didn't fall for the trick. I guess, yeah, yeah,

1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:34.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't believe this guy's story, and I

1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:37.880
<v Speaker 1>don't think I have to do too much to really

1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:41.360
<v Speaker 1>trough that out because there's a lot of hearsay about

1:02:41.360 --> 1:02:44.080
<v Speaker 1>what he has to say. And there are one or

1:02:44.080 --> 1:02:46.480
<v Speaker 1>two people who came out and said, oh, yeah, I know,

1:02:46.680 --> 1:02:48.840
<v Speaker 1>we we know the guy who made it. He's telling

1:02:48.880 --> 1:02:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the truth. But you know, Hanslow also said that he

1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:57.000
<v Speaker 1>was involved in another operation using the same type of

1:02:57.040 --> 1:03:00.360
<v Speaker 1>device that brought down another plane. And oh he was

1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:05.800
<v Speaker 1>also involved in that was other plane. He was also

1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:11.200
<v Speaker 1>involved in the monitoring of Namibian activists by the name

1:03:11.360 --> 1:03:16.120
<v Speaker 1>of Anton Lubowski, who was later murdered and they don't

1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:18.880
<v Speaker 1>know who killed him. I do have to point out

1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:21.080
<v Speaker 1>those that, you know, the locals, the ones who said, well,

1:03:21.080 --> 1:03:23.240
<v Speaker 1>they got chased away from the site. They also said,

1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:25.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, there was a lot of military activity in

1:03:26.000 --> 1:03:31.560
<v Speaker 1>this area the days before, but like it's a remote

1:03:31.560 --> 1:03:34.720
<v Speaker 1>area of South Africa. South Africa was pretty militized nation

1:03:34.800 --> 1:03:36.840
<v Speaker 1>at that They also had a supposedly they had a

1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:38.360
<v Speaker 1>base that was there for a couple of years, so

1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 1>they could have been on exercises or they could have

1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:44.800
<v Speaker 1>been like trying to reinforce their border. Very possible. I mean,

1:03:45.120 --> 1:03:47.880
<v Speaker 1>let's be honest. Michelle had just said I'm going to

1:03:47.920 --> 1:03:51.840
<v Speaker 1>put missiles all along my border, and so they were

1:03:51.840 --> 1:03:56.120
<v Speaker 1>probably like, oh, let's go check that out. And then

1:03:56.160 --> 1:03:59.120
<v Speaker 1>there was suspicious activity in terms of there was a

1:03:59.120 --> 1:04:02.840
<v Speaker 1>really big tent erected on that site. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1:04:02.920 --> 1:04:05.480
<v Speaker 1>that's like how the locals say, how big of a tent,

1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:09.440
<v Speaker 1>like really really big, like as big as an airplane,

1:04:09.480 --> 1:04:12.160
<v Speaker 1>as big as a bread box. Now just big, bigger

1:04:12.200 --> 1:04:14.520
<v Speaker 1>than your average you know, troop tent, you know, a

1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:16.320
<v Speaker 1>big tent, but we don't know what it is from

1:04:16.360 --> 1:04:19.600
<v Speaker 1>that was it was it hiding like Thor's hammer or

1:04:19.880 --> 1:04:22.040
<v Speaker 1>so We're going to move on while you try to

1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:27.919
<v Speaker 1>find wall. Though, Let's let's circle back a little bit

1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:31.400
<v Speaker 1>to the v o R and talk a little bit

1:04:31.400 --> 1:04:34.120
<v Speaker 1>more about that, like how it could have been spoof. Yeah,

1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:36.280
<v Speaker 1>this this is where this is heading, because that for

1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:42.560
<v Speaker 1>me is like way less complicated or out of unbelievable. Yeah,

1:04:43.080 --> 1:04:46.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm willing to go there. So the thing do you

1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:49.000
<v Speaker 1>need to know about the v o R is they

1:04:49.080 --> 1:04:53.040
<v Speaker 1>tend to be really big. They're big things. Like one

1:04:53.040 --> 1:04:55.680
<v Speaker 1>of our experts was saying that to make one mobile

1:04:55.760 --> 1:04:58.000
<v Speaker 1>or it was an expert I read somewhere, they said

1:04:58.040 --> 1:04:59.080
<v Speaker 1>that it would have had to have been on the

1:04:59.120 --> 1:05:02.440
<v Speaker 1>back of a three on truck, which is basically a

1:05:02.480 --> 1:05:07.760
<v Speaker 1>semi and that's from its correct because they are also

1:05:08.520 --> 1:05:11.120
<v Speaker 1>superpower hungry, so you got to bring a lit another

1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:13.240
<v Speaker 1>truck or two with with the generator on it right,

1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:16.560
<v Speaker 1>and if the farther you want to throw its signal,

1:05:16.720 --> 1:05:19.439
<v Speaker 1>the higher up in the air, you need to run

1:05:19.480 --> 1:05:23.880
<v Speaker 1>the antenna. So you could you could conceivably need an

1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:28.680
<v Speaker 1>antenna that's fifty hundred hundred and thirty feet tall. I mean,

1:05:28.680 --> 1:05:31.919
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about a big antenna. These things though, they're

1:05:31.920 --> 1:05:35.120
<v Speaker 1>big and bulky, so it's a little weird to think

1:05:35.160 --> 1:05:38.560
<v Speaker 1>about that, you know, the way that somebody could carry

1:05:38.560 --> 1:05:40.720
<v Speaker 1>one of those around. But one of the things that

1:05:40.760 --> 1:05:43.760
<v Speaker 1>are the expert Zach pointed out for me is that

1:05:43.960 --> 1:05:49.280
<v Speaker 1>when you have two v rs broadcasting on the same frequency,

1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:54.240
<v Speaker 1>unless one is massively stronger than the other, they might

1:05:54.320 --> 1:05:57.840
<v Speaker 1>actually cancel each other out, which then defeats the purpose.

1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:02.000
<v Speaker 1>It's also gonna like, you know, they're on the same frequency,

1:06:02.120 --> 1:06:04.160
<v Speaker 1>you would think that they'd be going like, well, VR

1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:06.680
<v Speaker 1>points this way and this way and yeah, or it

1:06:06.720 --> 1:06:09.160
<v Speaker 1>comes up and down back and forth. Yeah. I mean

1:06:09.480 --> 1:06:11.040
<v Speaker 1>they put it a call to the airport to say

1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:14.919
<v Speaker 1>what's going on with this exactly. But the workaround for that,

1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:18.960
<v Speaker 1>rather than having this competing signal issue would simply be

1:06:19.120 --> 1:06:23.080
<v Speaker 1>to have an inside man at the Mputu Airport. Who

1:06:23.160 --> 1:06:26.440
<v Speaker 1>could during the time that you want, you knew that

1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:28.560
<v Speaker 1>the President's plane was going to be coming by a

1:06:28.600 --> 1:06:32.480
<v Speaker 1>certain area, flipped off the switch. So now you you

1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:35.520
<v Speaker 1>turn on the decoy. The decoy runs for a certain

1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:37.800
<v Speaker 1>amount of time until you can confirm that the plane

1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:41.640
<v Speaker 1>is turned and then you flip on the real one

1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:45.000
<v Speaker 1>again and you turn off the decoy. That also would

1:06:45.040 --> 1:06:47.840
<v Speaker 1>solve the problem that I had with the decoy, which

1:06:47.840 --> 1:06:50.800
<v Speaker 1>is if the decoy was running, it should have caught

1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:55.240
<v Speaker 1>more planes. It should have drawn more planes than just

1:06:55.400 --> 1:06:58.840
<v Speaker 1>this one planes. The other thing about it is is, uh,

1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:01.720
<v Speaker 1>this a little conspiracy requires an amazing amount of coordination.

1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Uh somebody was where did they leave from? It was yeah,

1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:10.640
<v Speaker 1>so somebody. So they had to have somebody at Embald

1:07:10.680 --> 1:07:12.919
<v Speaker 1>Airport to let them know when the plane took off

1:07:13.160 --> 1:07:15.160
<v Speaker 1>and headed south. They would have known, They would have

1:07:15.160 --> 1:07:18.439
<v Speaker 1>had a fair approximate idea what the airsped air speed

1:07:18.480 --> 1:07:21.440
<v Speaker 1>of it would be no when it was approaching. It's

1:07:21.480 --> 1:07:25.680
<v Speaker 1>objective complex, but they had to have They had to

1:07:25.720 --> 1:07:28.000
<v Speaker 1>have a guy at that airport to provide them with

1:07:28.000 --> 1:07:29.960
<v Speaker 1>that information. They had to have a guy at the

1:07:30.160 --> 1:07:33.520
<v Speaker 1>at Maputa Airport to flip off the switch, and then

1:07:33.560 --> 1:07:35.360
<v Speaker 1>they had to have these guys running. I mean, this

1:07:35.400 --> 1:07:37.960
<v Speaker 1>is this, this is a well greased operation. It's amazing.

1:07:38.080 --> 1:07:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Kind of actually, Joe, can I can I kind of

1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:42.800
<v Speaker 1>cut off part of that plan for you. They made

1:07:42.880 --> 1:07:45.920
<v Speaker 1>contact with air traffic control and then they made their

1:07:45.960 --> 1:07:49.400
<v Speaker 1>turn so that it could be as simple as they

1:07:49.400 --> 1:07:54.680
<v Speaker 1>made They initiated the handshake of high we're here, and

1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:58.080
<v Speaker 1>somebody says turn it on, turn it off, and they

1:07:58.160 --> 1:08:02.720
<v Speaker 1>flipped the switches right then plane turns. They know the

1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:05.080
<v Speaker 1>crew is probably not going to continue to monitor the

1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:07.000
<v Speaker 1>v o R, and they turn it back off once

1:08:07.040 --> 1:08:10.520
<v Speaker 1>they've confirmed that they've made their turn, and that simplifies

1:08:10.960 --> 1:08:15.959
<v Speaker 1>the number of people involved to start the beginning, I suppose. Yeah.

1:08:16.040 --> 1:08:17.840
<v Speaker 1>But and then I guess they could turn it off

1:08:17.840 --> 1:08:19.519
<v Speaker 1>and then they could like to start their truck up

1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:21.160
<v Speaker 1>and get the hell out of there, because you've got

1:08:21.200 --> 1:08:23.400
<v Speaker 1>a plan heading right for you. Yeah, that's exactly right.

1:08:23.800 --> 1:08:26.040
<v Speaker 1>You know what. The other way that this could very

1:08:26.040 --> 1:08:29.840
<v Speaker 1>well have gone, though, again, this is a little more

1:08:29.920 --> 1:08:33.559
<v Speaker 1>difficult when it comes to the decoy or the false

1:08:33.640 --> 1:08:37.000
<v Speaker 1>v o R readings is if you remember I talked

1:08:37.040 --> 1:08:40.360
<v Speaker 1>about that the signals. When they're pointing due north, they're

1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:43.559
<v Speaker 1>both they're in phase, perfectly in phase, and the farther

1:08:43.640 --> 1:08:45.760
<v Speaker 1>they are out tells you where you are in that

1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:51.280
<v Speaker 1>three sixty degrees. It is entirely possible that instead of

1:08:51.320 --> 1:08:55.720
<v Speaker 1>having a dummy v o R over the border, they

1:08:55.760 --> 1:09:02.240
<v Speaker 1>instead manipulated the v o R on site to twist it. Essentially,

1:09:02.240 --> 1:09:05.559
<v Speaker 1>so rather than everything starting in phase at true north,

1:09:05.920 --> 1:09:10.120
<v Speaker 1>it started in phase and let's say thirty seven degrees

1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:13.439
<v Speaker 1>off of true norm. And is that something that's possible

1:09:13.520 --> 1:09:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to be done? I don't know. I imagine that it is,

1:09:18.040 --> 1:09:20.519
<v Speaker 1>though I've never heard of it being done, because it's

1:09:20.560 --> 1:09:23.920
<v Speaker 1>it's a very simple system, but I don't know how

1:09:23.960 --> 1:09:26.280
<v Speaker 1>easy it is to turn it and then turn it back.

1:09:26.320 --> 1:09:28.559
<v Speaker 1>And also there were there were other planes hidden into

1:09:28.640 --> 1:09:30.760
<v Speaker 1>that hitting into that saying airport, which is why I

1:09:30.800 --> 1:09:33.360
<v Speaker 1>say turning it and then turning it back, because they

1:09:33.360 --> 1:09:36.799
<v Speaker 1>couldn't have left it in the odd position. I guess,

1:09:37.640 --> 1:09:40.400
<v Speaker 1>like this might be a really dumb question, right, But

1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:43.479
<v Speaker 1>like if we're talking like the flip of a light switch, right,

1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:46.599
<v Speaker 1>you turn the one correct v o R off and

1:09:46.760 --> 1:09:52.000
<v Speaker 1>the wrong one on. Are we talking like you walk

1:09:52.080 --> 1:09:55.920
<v Speaker 1>into that and then ignore everything else, or are we

1:09:56.560 --> 1:09:59.639
<v Speaker 1>because to me, like we're saying, this is a constant

1:09:59.680 --> 1:10:02.680
<v Speaker 1>ping that's happening back and forth between your aircraft and

1:10:02.800 --> 1:10:06.800
<v Speaker 1>your station if you're monitoring it. Okay, So what we're

1:10:06.800 --> 1:10:09.840
<v Speaker 1>saying is like they pinged onto a new one, they

1:10:09.880 --> 1:10:13.880
<v Speaker 1>made the turn, and then they turned the autopilot back on. Okay,

1:10:13.920 --> 1:10:17.040
<v Speaker 1>that's what the Margot Commission alleges is that they took

1:10:17.040 --> 1:10:19.479
<v Speaker 1>their they took their new berrying and where they turned

1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:22.400
<v Speaker 1>the autopilot back on, which is then what led them

1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:25.320
<v Speaker 1>to the mountains rod and where they crashed was that

1:10:25.400 --> 1:10:31.200
<v Speaker 1>within two hundred miles away from Maputo is where they

1:10:31.200 --> 1:10:39.400
<v Speaker 1>crashed realistically, but it was within the two mile okay,

1:10:39.400 --> 1:10:42.160
<v Speaker 1>so I guess within the bubble. And then then the

1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:44.479
<v Speaker 1>other question would be right, is that like obviously they're

1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:48.240
<v Speaker 1>not gonna let the autopilot land, so they're going to

1:10:48.360 --> 1:10:50.800
<v Speaker 1>hit a point where they're going to think, okay, all right,

1:10:50.920 --> 1:10:53.439
<v Speaker 1>we should be getting close. They turned that off and

1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:57.640
<v Speaker 1>suddenly they've got two v O R pings coming at them.

1:10:57.720 --> 1:11:01.920
<v Speaker 1>They've got the landing gear again if they're well, but

1:11:02.040 --> 1:11:04.200
<v Speaker 1>you would right if you're coming in for landing you

1:11:04.200 --> 1:11:07.400
<v Speaker 1>don't think you would. You would, especially if somebody was like, no,

1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:10.760
<v Speaker 1>our lights are all So they had they had when

1:11:10.760 --> 1:11:15.720
<v Speaker 1>they hit the three thousand foot ceiling, they had switched

1:11:15.800 --> 1:11:20.760
<v Speaker 1>over to oh what is there? It's visual flight proceeding.

1:11:21.560 --> 1:11:24.080
<v Speaker 1>I can't. Basically, they were trying to do it by thing.

1:11:24.120 --> 1:11:26.240
<v Speaker 1>You're doing it by you're doing it visually at that point,

1:11:26.240 --> 1:11:28.320
<v Speaker 1>so you you turn on you don't you don't use

1:11:28.400 --> 1:11:30.719
<v Speaker 1>the VR. I guess the one don't need you anymore.

1:11:30.760 --> 1:11:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I guess for me, one would think that a responsible

1:11:33.320 --> 1:11:37.400
<v Speaker 1>pilot and navigator would think, okay, we'll give it like

1:11:37.520 --> 1:11:40.519
<v Speaker 1>a minute, right, You're not going to be autopilot too visual.

1:11:41.040 --> 1:11:43.200
<v Speaker 1>You're going to do autopilot t V O R for

1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.559
<v Speaker 1>a minute to make sure everything's right, and then visual,

1:11:47.040 --> 1:11:49.880
<v Speaker 1>which is what they did when they corrected. That's what

1:11:49.920 --> 1:11:52.360
<v Speaker 1>they did. They turned the autopilot off and they said,

1:11:53.000 --> 1:11:55.160
<v Speaker 1>m hmmm, the way the VR is not right. We're

1:11:55.160 --> 1:11:59.320
<v Speaker 1>going to correct the course. And then the controllers said, okay,

1:11:59.360 --> 1:12:03.439
<v Speaker 1>when you're at three thousand feet, let us know, So

1:12:03.640 --> 1:12:05.800
<v Speaker 1>they turned the autopilot back on until they were at

1:12:05.840 --> 1:12:07.640
<v Speaker 1>what they thought with three thousand feet, they were at

1:12:07.680 --> 1:12:10.160
<v Speaker 1>the front assistance in the right altitude, right, But so

1:12:10.240 --> 1:12:12.160
<v Speaker 1>one would assume that they would do the same procedure

1:12:12.160 --> 1:12:15.040
<v Speaker 1>where they would turn the autopilot off see the v

1:12:15.160 --> 1:12:19.080
<v Speaker 1>O R. So be careful there, Devon, because you nor

1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I are a pilot, and you cannot imply that that

1:12:23.760 --> 1:12:26.360
<v Speaker 1>is the way that the process works. I can't. I

1:12:26.400 --> 1:12:28.639
<v Speaker 1>have tripped I have tripped us up before by making

1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:32.120
<v Speaker 1>the very same assumption, and I don't know that that's

1:12:32.200 --> 1:12:35.760
<v Speaker 1>the case. Yeah, what I don't really understand is like

1:12:35.800 --> 1:12:37.880
<v Speaker 1>how they can fly all this distance and not at

1:12:37.880 --> 1:12:39.439
<v Speaker 1>some point be saying, where the hell are the lights

1:12:39.439 --> 1:12:44.000
<v Speaker 1>of Maputo? But again they thought that they they said apparent,

1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:47.760
<v Speaker 1>they made statements saying basically they thought the power was out.

1:12:48.320 --> 1:12:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Is that we're I mean, was Maputo suffering a lot

1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:53.479
<v Speaker 1>of brown outs at the time. I mean, I know

1:12:53.680 --> 1:12:58.240
<v Speaker 1>in certain political strife that happened. It wasn't. It wasn't

1:12:58.240 --> 1:13:01.439
<v Speaker 1>as if it had the strong youngest grid in the world.

1:13:01.520 --> 1:13:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I would not be shocked that the place experienced power issues.

1:13:06.240 --> 1:13:09.000
<v Speaker 1>You think the airport would have a backup generator. You

1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:12.519
<v Speaker 1>would also think that when the airport said no, our

1:13:12.600 --> 1:13:16.400
<v Speaker 1>lights are on, the pilots would be like, oh, well,

1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:19.639
<v Speaker 1>we can't see them. So but I think that's the problem. Again.

1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:22.360
<v Speaker 1>That's where the Margot commission said, listen, when you've got

1:13:22.400 --> 1:13:25.320
<v Speaker 1>that response, you should have started pulling up right instead

1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:27.880
<v Speaker 1>of continuing to descend. And in fairness, they said that

1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:30.840
<v Speaker 1>to dead men. So well no they I mean they

1:13:30.840 --> 1:13:32.920
<v Speaker 1>talked for twenty two seconds. I mean there was the

1:13:32.920 --> 1:13:37.559
<v Speaker 1>the request Oh Margot, okay, got it. Yeah, you're right. Um,

1:13:37.760 --> 1:13:40.360
<v Speaker 1>let's let's keep going on with this, this whole false

1:13:40.439 --> 1:13:44.320
<v Speaker 1>beacon bit, because there are people who have said that

1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:47.320
<v Speaker 1>it is possible that there wasn't a false beacon, but

1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:53.760
<v Speaker 1>instead that the manipulated v O R was actually the

1:13:53.880 --> 1:13:58.120
<v Speaker 1>v O R in at the airport in Matsafa, which

1:13:58.680 --> 1:14:02.240
<v Speaker 1>was as we said, only a little bit off point seven.

1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>But again, like we talked about before, that should have

1:14:04.920 --> 1:14:09.719
<v Speaker 1>drawn more planes in to that airport, should have lured

1:14:09.760 --> 1:14:12.679
<v Speaker 1>more in that direction that were headed to Maputo, always

1:14:13.120 --> 1:14:15.400
<v Speaker 1>saying that they set one, that they changed the frequency

1:14:15.600 --> 1:14:18.200
<v Speaker 1>at the airport to the one that was in Maputo. Yes,

1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:21.800
<v Speaker 1>oh no, no, no no. Matsafa people have said that the Matsafa,

1:14:22.240 --> 1:14:26.760
<v Speaker 1>the the v O R at Matsafa had been altered

1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>to appear to be the Maputo v O. I think

1:14:32.080 --> 1:14:34.479
<v Speaker 1>Joe and I were on the same page in interpreting that,

1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:37.519
<v Speaker 1>and that like I thought that, you know, like a

1:14:37.560 --> 1:14:40.320
<v Speaker 1>pilot knee adjusted so that they were on the wrong

1:14:40.360 --> 1:14:43.840
<v Speaker 1>frequency all of a sudden, well within the correct But

1:14:43.920 --> 1:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>that's what that's what the Margot commission is basically said,

1:14:46.840 --> 1:14:49.439
<v Speaker 1>and they said that the crew screwed up and had

1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>it on the wrong signal, and but other people have said, no, no,

1:14:53.000 --> 1:14:56.160
<v Speaker 1>that's probably just something that happened in the accident, and

1:14:56.680 --> 1:14:59.559
<v Speaker 1>this was actually the dummy was actually at this other station,

1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:04.519
<v Speaker 1>the or other airport. And the thing that's really weird,

1:15:04.720 --> 1:15:08.040
<v Speaker 1>and this is just one of those hanky things that

1:15:08.120 --> 1:15:12.680
<v Speaker 1>you find in these stories, is that whoever it was

1:15:13.240 --> 1:15:19.120
<v Speaker 1>that was running the the the air traffic control in

1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Matsafa was also the same company or the same group

1:15:24.280 --> 1:15:27.840
<v Speaker 1>that was running it in Maputo, and they were said

1:15:27.880 --> 1:15:30.360
<v Speaker 1>to have links to the MOB. So people have said, well,

1:15:30.400 --> 1:15:33.000
<v Speaker 1>obviously that's how they pulled it off because it was

1:15:33.040 --> 1:15:36.760
<v Speaker 1>a mob deal. What are we talking about him, that's

1:15:36.760 --> 1:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>a great question. The other thing is that there's also

1:15:40.240 --> 1:15:44.799
<v Speaker 1>the problem that we know the conversation that took place

1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:47.720
<v Speaker 1>between the pilots and the air traffic control because we

1:15:47.800 --> 1:15:51.519
<v Speaker 1>have the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.

1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:55.559
<v Speaker 1>We don't, of course have the tapes that took place

1:15:55.800 --> 1:15:59.040
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the at the air traffic controller.

1:15:59.720 --> 1:16:03.800
<v Speaker 1>So it's entirely possible that they were not talking to

1:16:04.000 --> 1:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Maputo Air Traffic Control, but in fact we're talking to

1:16:07.800 --> 1:16:11.479
<v Speaker 1>somebody else masquerading as them, which is why the tapes

1:16:11.520 --> 1:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>were lost because they never actually existed. Kind of hard

1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:19.280
<v Speaker 1>to like do that though, it's not easy, and I

1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:23.320
<v Speaker 1>say it because it's out there. I don't believe it

1:16:23.720 --> 1:16:25.920
<v Speaker 1>because that is again, that is one of those things,

1:16:26.040 --> 1:16:29.400
<v Speaker 1>as you, Joe, are so fond of saying, that is

1:16:29.720 --> 1:16:32.679
<v Speaker 1>too many links in the chain. That is just way

1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>too complex. It is alright, conspiracy simple, yeah, yeah. So

1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:43.280
<v Speaker 1>let's keep moving forward here. We're going to go to

1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:47.439
<v Speaker 1>our next theory, which is basically it's the theory that

1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:50.799
<v Speaker 1>there was a signal jammer or a frequency scrambler involved.

1:16:52.000 --> 1:16:54.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't really I don't really get this one. But

1:16:54.720 --> 1:16:58.160
<v Speaker 1>what happens is that this is that remember that news

1:16:58.160 --> 1:17:00.200
<v Speaker 1>crew I said that South African news crew was on

1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:03.160
<v Speaker 1>the site. Somebody that was involved that was on the

1:17:03.200 --> 1:17:06.679
<v Speaker 1>site and the search team walks up with a small

1:17:06.760 --> 1:17:09.280
<v Speaker 1>device that has described as being the size of a

1:17:09.320 --> 1:17:13.120
<v Speaker 1>pound of butter, which is a weird description of size,

1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:16.479
<v Speaker 1>but okay, do you know what kind of looks like?

1:17:17.479 --> 1:17:20.559
<v Speaker 1>But it's just it's it's a strange description to me,

1:17:21.360 --> 1:17:24.280
<v Speaker 1>that's all. But they say that it could have been

1:17:24.320 --> 1:17:28.439
<v Speaker 1>a frequency scrambler. Uh, it was figured out that it

1:17:28.560 --> 1:17:32.400
<v Speaker 1>was indeed not one who was this person anyway, I

1:17:32.439 --> 1:17:39.320
<v Speaker 1>hold this for some random searcher on the site who

1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:43.599
<v Speaker 1>was officially probably a military guy, a South African military guy.

1:17:43.640 --> 1:17:46.519
<v Speaker 1>But that's all I can guess. Oh, he couldn't keep

1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:48.800
<v Speaker 1>a secret very well. Then well he sent it straight

1:17:48.840 --> 1:17:51.040
<v Speaker 1>to the news camera, which makes you wonder if that

1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:54.479
<v Speaker 1>was intentional, because you know, we've talked about Stir in

1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:57.680
<v Speaker 1>the pod. You could i mean pick botha was out there,

1:17:57.720 --> 1:18:00.040
<v Speaker 1>throw and everything he could at this story just to

1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:02.599
<v Speaker 1>see what would stick. So he might have said, hey,

1:18:02.680 --> 1:18:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I've said too many teams, I've already talked to them twice.

1:18:04.880 --> 1:18:07.719
<v Speaker 1>Why don't you go show this thing and say it's this? Yeah,

1:18:07.840 --> 1:18:10.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm making that up. But the point is

1:18:10.920 --> 1:18:15.160
<v Speaker 1>is that it obviously wasn't that. But the scrambler would

1:18:15.479 --> 1:18:20.439
<v Speaker 1>a scrambler would have been effective in disrupting their distance

1:18:20.520 --> 1:18:25.040
<v Speaker 1>measuring equipment and probably their communications. The issue is is

1:18:25.080 --> 1:18:28.240
<v Speaker 1>that we know that their communications were working because again

1:18:28.280 --> 1:18:31.120
<v Speaker 1>we have the cockpit voice reporter. Um, you would think

1:18:31.120 --> 1:18:33.200
<v Speaker 1>that it would have interfered with the v O R

1:18:33.400 --> 1:18:35.160
<v Speaker 1>to the point that the v R signal would have

1:18:35.160 --> 1:18:38.080
<v Speaker 1>been bad, or it would have it wouldn't have worked. Right,

1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:42.799
<v Speaker 1>How this thing, how this thing would have worked, doesn't

1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:45.320
<v Speaker 1>make any sense that it's actually kind of a toothless

1:18:45.320 --> 1:18:48.400
<v Speaker 1>claim to me. So I don't I don't put any

1:18:48.400 --> 1:18:51.439
<v Speaker 1>stock into the it was a frequent jam. Yeah, yeah, No,

1:18:51.560 --> 1:18:53.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't see how it could have worked either, because

1:18:53.520 --> 1:18:55.439
<v Speaker 1>if we don't know if this guy was saying that

1:18:55.479 --> 1:18:59.320
<v Speaker 1>it was found in the rede so somebody put a

1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:03.599
<v Speaker 1>frequency grambler on the plane. Theoretically, yes, the navigational equipment.

1:19:04.040 --> 1:19:06.360
<v Speaker 1>In fact, it was just a regular piece of equipment

1:19:06.400 --> 1:19:09.320
<v Speaker 1>from the plane. So we're gonna move on to our

1:19:09.360 --> 1:19:13.439
<v Speaker 1>final theory, which is that the plane was shot down

1:19:14.520 --> 1:19:18.439
<v Speaker 1>to one of the survivors actually said several times that

1:19:18.560 --> 1:19:23.160
<v Speaker 1>he remembered feeling an impact or an explosion just before

1:19:23.320 --> 1:19:29.599
<v Speaker 1>the plane went down. Personally before the plane hit the ground,

1:19:29.840 --> 1:19:34.719
<v Speaker 1>because it doesn't I'm sorry, just to discount this, didn't

1:19:34.720 --> 1:19:37.840
<v Speaker 1>we say that the plane hit a hill and then

1:19:37.840 --> 1:19:40.920
<v Speaker 1>bounced off and then bounced off, and I and then

1:19:41.000 --> 1:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>feel that is probably what he is interpreting as a explosion,

1:19:47.960 --> 1:19:51.120
<v Speaker 1>because it would be very loud, to be very rough,

1:19:51.320 --> 1:19:54.519
<v Speaker 1>it would throw you about. I can see how you

1:19:54.560 --> 1:19:58.920
<v Speaker 1>would interpret that as an explosion. But doing our due diligence,

1:19:59.760 --> 1:20:01.760
<v Speaker 1>when hadn't I ran down this path a little bit.

1:20:02.120 --> 1:20:06.719
<v Speaker 1>The wreckage was spread over eight hundred fifty meters, which

1:20:06.760 --> 1:20:11.360
<v Speaker 1>is about half a mile, so there's wreckage everywhere. None

1:20:11.439 --> 1:20:16.080
<v Speaker 1>of the wreckage showed any signs of having been hit

1:20:16.160 --> 1:20:19.599
<v Speaker 1>by any kind of explosive device, so like a surface

1:20:19.600 --> 1:20:21.600
<v Speaker 1>to air missile like we were talking about, because you

1:20:21.600 --> 1:20:25.719
<v Speaker 1>would expect to see heat and burn marks and things

1:20:25.760 --> 1:20:29.000
<v Speaker 1>like that on the metal, and none of that was detected.

1:20:29.040 --> 1:20:35.000
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna find residue from explosives also. But there's also

1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:37.320
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of stuff that I read out there on

1:20:37.360 --> 1:20:40.679
<v Speaker 1>the internet talking about the fact that there have been

1:20:40.680 --> 1:20:42.880
<v Speaker 1>planes that were brought down by things that were the

1:20:42.960 --> 1:20:46.920
<v Speaker 1>size of a beer can. There was a small explosive

1:20:47.160 --> 1:20:49.839
<v Speaker 1>that if put next to the skin of the plane

1:20:50.360 --> 1:20:53.759
<v Speaker 1>and detonated while they're at altitude like thirty five thousand

1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:57.160
<v Speaker 1>feet up in the air, the pressure is enough to

1:20:57.240 --> 1:21:02.360
<v Speaker 1>start tearing the fuselage apart and can cause a plane crash.

1:21:02.479 --> 1:21:06.799
<v Speaker 1>But that also begs the question of if that's what happened,

1:21:07.120 --> 1:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>why the hell did they do it at two or

1:21:09.880 --> 1:21:12.880
<v Speaker 1>three thousand feet off the ground when the plane was

1:21:13.000 --> 1:21:16.160
<v Speaker 1>landing rather than when it was in the middle of

1:21:16.360 --> 1:21:21.040
<v Speaker 1>nowhere and at its max altitude. Well, that's that's the thing.

1:21:21.080 --> 1:21:23.000
<v Speaker 1>It's like, you know, what's one of the odds. Let's

1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:25.599
<v Speaker 1>let's say they lured it in, it's about to crash anyway,

1:21:25.640 --> 1:21:28.479
<v Speaker 1>Why bother shooting it down? Why why do I save

1:21:28.520 --> 1:21:31.519
<v Speaker 1>yourself an expensive missile? Yeah, so there's there's a lot

1:21:31.560 --> 1:21:33.680
<v Speaker 1>of problems with that. Yeah, I mean, I guess my

1:21:33.840 --> 1:21:38.320
<v Speaker 1>question so were we heard the pilot and you know,

1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:41.400
<v Speaker 1>everyone in the cockpit swearing a lot. So I guess

1:21:41.680 --> 1:21:44.200
<v Speaker 1>there could be some sort of like hey, somebody sent

1:21:44.360 --> 1:21:48.200
<v Speaker 1>like a firework or mortar up to explode, and they

1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:52.400
<v Speaker 1>were like crop crop, crop crop or whatever, right, and

1:21:52.600 --> 1:21:56.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, corrected, and that's when they really crash. That

1:21:56.680 --> 1:21:59.120
<v Speaker 1>would make more sense to me, It would explain why

1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:02.759
<v Speaker 1>one of the survivor would say an explosion happened because

1:22:02.840 --> 1:22:07.080
<v Speaker 1>something they saw kind of exploded. It helped to, I

1:22:07.080 --> 1:22:10.880
<v Speaker 1>don't know, disorient the people who were trying to steer

1:22:10.920 --> 1:22:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the plane and help bring it down even more. I

1:22:14.360 --> 1:22:16.439
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I mean, like that's something that I could see,

1:22:16.680 --> 1:22:21.080
<v Speaker 1>but I definitely don't see some sort of missile. What

1:22:21.200 --> 1:22:24.840
<v Speaker 1>you described is something such an extra step that it

1:22:24.920 --> 1:22:27.280
<v Speaker 1>doesn't make any sense if the plane is already descending

1:22:27.320 --> 1:22:30.240
<v Speaker 1>unless it was. Are you saying that's a diversionary tax

1:22:30.560 --> 1:22:33.439
<v Speaker 1>sort of like you know, so like their alarms are

1:22:33.439 --> 1:22:35.160
<v Speaker 1>going off and they're like, you're close to the ground,

1:22:35.200 --> 1:22:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and then a mortar goes off and they're like, oh

1:22:37.360 --> 1:22:42.280
<v Speaker 1>crap or something worse that there would have been word

1:22:42.560 --> 1:22:45.880
<v Speaker 1>about an explosion. I don't know. If all they're doing

1:22:46.080 --> 1:22:49.400
<v Speaker 1>is like swearing, well they weren't just swearing. They were

1:22:49.439 --> 1:22:53.519
<v Speaker 1>swearing because of the ground proximity warning going off. They're

1:22:53.600 --> 1:22:56.160
<v Speaker 1>talking to each other, they're trying to talk to air

1:22:56.240 --> 1:22:58.960
<v Speaker 1>traffic control. So at that point I would expect that

1:22:59.080 --> 1:23:02.479
<v Speaker 1>if they would saying, think the flayer goes off next

1:23:02.520 --> 1:23:06.439
<v Speaker 1>to the plane or an explosion they would say, or

1:23:06.720 --> 1:23:11.000
<v Speaker 1>an explosion, you know they would say, what the hell

1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:15.599
<v Speaker 1>is that? Yeah? Yeah, they yes, that that is something

1:23:15.680 --> 1:23:18.360
<v Speaker 1>to lead us to believe that something else happened outside

1:23:18.360 --> 1:23:20.400
<v Speaker 1>of the aircraft itself. Well, it could have been that,

1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:22.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, right before they graze, that hilts up maybe

1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:24.599
<v Speaker 1>one of their one of their wheels at the top

1:23:24.640 --> 1:23:26.479
<v Speaker 1>of a tree, you know, and made a big thump.

1:23:26.800 --> 1:23:28.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean, because it is the belly of the plane

1:23:28.479 --> 1:23:31.800
<v Speaker 1>in the trees that hits first. And then like I said,

1:23:31.840 --> 1:23:36.040
<v Speaker 1>it bounced, ye, bounced up and then came right back down. Yeah,

1:23:36.120 --> 1:23:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean overall, I just I don't know what to

1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:42.439
<v Speaker 1>think about this. It's so I'm pretty sure I think

1:23:42.600 --> 1:23:44.439
<v Speaker 1>the Market Commission got a right. I think they just

1:23:44.479 --> 1:23:47.880
<v Speaker 1>set their v o R incorrectly and drawn off course

1:23:47.920 --> 1:23:50.479
<v Speaker 1>by that. I think maybe they just got so comfortable,

1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:53.400
<v Speaker 1>right this is we said that this is a flight

1:23:53.479 --> 1:23:55.479
<v Speaker 1>path that they've taken over and over and over again.

1:23:55.800 --> 1:23:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they were just so comfortable with it that they

1:23:57.720 --> 1:24:01.599
<v Speaker 1>were just I was in this plane something like that,

1:24:01.680 --> 1:24:05.360
<v Speaker 1>this crew specifically, if I remember correctly, So yeah, maybe

1:24:05.360 --> 1:24:07.240
<v Speaker 1>they were just so used to their route they were

1:24:07.240 --> 1:24:10.080
<v Speaker 1>just relying on their instruments because they were literally phoning

1:24:10.120 --> 1:24:12.479
<v Speaker 1>it in. You know, I don't know if they like

1:24:12.560 --> 1:24:14.200
<v Speaker 1>like when I went, for example, to set there b

1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:15.400
<v Speaker 1>o R. I don't know if they did it straight

1:24:15.439 --> 1:24:18.479
<v Speaker 1>from memory. If they had they had a booklet, like

1:24:18.520 --> 1:24:21.559
<v Speaker 1>a pamphlet that had all the all the frequencies for

1:24:21.600 --> 1:24:23.519
<v Speaker 1>all the airports in the region, I guess I would

1:24:23.560 --> 1:24:26.400
<v Speaker 1>assume if it was the capital of the country of

1:24:27.000 --> 1:24:29.519
<v Speaker 1>for which she were, I mean, the president, this is

1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:35.599
<v Speaker 1>their a force one, right, so you know that my heart. Yeah,

1:24:35.640 --> 1:24:37.640
<v Speaker 1>And I don't think that they could just get it

1:24:37.680 --> 1:24:40.840
<v Speaker 1>confused with another local airport, because they would have been

1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:43.280
<v Speaker 1>making that, you know, going in all the time, saying

1:24:43.439 --> 1:24:45.840
<v Speaker 1>make sure to be on point seven and not point

1:24:45.880 --> 1:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>three because we don't want to go to Matsofa. We

1:24:48.840 --> 1:24:51.400
<v Speaker 1>want to go to But I guess in fairness that

1:24:51.720 --> 1:24:54.080
<v Speaker 1>we don't have any way of knowing if that display

1:24:54.120 --> 1:24:58.439
<v Speaker 1>was working correctly, that's possible. Part of did you read

1:24:58.479 --> 1:25:00.320
<v Speaker 1>their report, by the way, either of you get a

1:25:00.360 --> 1:25:03.120
<v Speaker 1>chance to go. I didn't read the entire thing. I

1:25:04.040 --> 1:25:07.000
<v Speaker 1>went to the conclusions and yeah, okay, because I went

1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:11.840
<v Speaker 1>through parts of it, and they do the Margot Commission

1:25:12.240 --> 1:25:18.320
<v Speaker 1>did sort of lay into the design of the display,

1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:20.600
<v Speaker 1>not just for the fact that you know, it was

1:25:20.600 --> 1:25:23.120
<v Speaker 1>the way the three and the seven were displayed, but

1:25:23.280 --> 1:25:25.759
<v Speaker 1>also talking about the fact that there was very little

1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:28.800
<v Speaker 1>backlighting and it was it was hard to see, so

1:25:28.920 --> 1:25:33.120
<v Speaker 1>that could it could have been, unfortunately an honest mistake.

1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:34.840
<v Speaker 1>And I I and I don't. I gotta tell you,

1:25:34.920 --> 1:25:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I didn't bother. I probably should have looked, but I

1:25:37.240 --> 1:25:40.280
<v Speaker 1>don't know what the number three and the number seven

1:25:40.360 --> 1:25:43.120
<v Speaker 1>looked like in cyrillic, So it looked like cyrillic are

1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:45.800
<v Speaker 1>in Russian. I looked for it, and everything that I

1:25:45.840 --> 1:25:48.080
<v Speaker 1>found they looked like a normal three in a seven.

1:25:48.439 --> 1:25:51.400
<v Speaker 1>But I've also in the commission's report, they talked about

1:25:51.439 --> 1:25:54.639
<v Speaker 1>the fact that there's a line above both the three

1:25:54.760 --> 1:25:57.559
<v Speaker 1>and the seven. Well, it's true, right, it's three goes

1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:01.200
<v Speaker 1>like this and the seven goes like right. And you're

1:26:01.280 --> 1:26:04.240
<v Speaker 1>you're describing the horizontal bar at the top of bull.

1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:06.920
<v Speaker 1>But you've had a digital clock before, right, Yes, so

1:26:07.040 --> 1:26:10.719
<v Speaker 1>you've got the bar that's horizontal, and then the vertical

1:26:11.479 --> 1:26:15.720
<v Speaker 1>stripe right for THEE, and then you've got you know,

1:26:15.800 --> 1:26:19.360
<v Speaker 1>for three, you've got two additional horizontal bars. But but

1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:21.599
<v Speaker 1>if it's not back lit. I can see why it's

1:26:21.600 --> 1:26:24.839
<v Speaker 1>an issue. It's it's very difficult. What kind of display

1:26:25.000 --> 1:26:32.880
<v Speaker 1>was it was? It was it l eds or digital

1:26:32.880 --> 1:26:35.439
<v Speaker 1>clocks that had the flip cards. No, I don't believe

1:26:35.479 --> 1:26:38.000
<v Speaker 1>it was that in any way, shape or form. I

1:26:38.040 --> 1:26:41.439
<v Speaker 1>think that it was a kind of a display, a

1:26:41.520 --> 1:26:46.640
<v Speaker 1>dial situation that then the lights of the cockpit somehow illuminated.

1:26:46.680 --> 1:26:49.439
<v Speaker 1>But that's a total guess on my part because again

1:26:49.680 --> 1:26:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I haven't been able to find a good picture of it.

1:26:51.760 --> 1:26:54.479
<v Speaker 1>And I found a bunch of flight simulator images, but

1:26:54.600 --> 1:26:57.519
<v Speaker 1>those are not reliable, they're not so I I don't

1:26:57.560 --> 1:27:00.120
<v Speaker 1>know for sure. Yeah, for all I know it's an

1:27:00.160 --> 1:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>analog you know, dial and yeah, yeah, I don't think

1:27:06.040 --> 1:27:10.840
<v Speaker 1>it's actually but I think, yeah, I just don't know

1:27:10.920 --> 1:27:13.639
<v Speaker 1>what I think about that. I think somebody probably put

1:27:13.640 --> 1:27:15.519
<v Speaker 1>the wrong frequency in the in the v O R

1:27:15.800 --> 1:27:18.559
<v Speaker 1>that's mine. I think that's the most likely because you know,

1:27:18.800 --> 1:27:22.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the South Africans didn't really they hadn't incentive,

1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:24.599
<v Speaker 1>but you know then they cost a big, a big

1:27:24.680 --> 1:27:27.880
<v Speaker 1>nasty bruising mess on their own territory, you know, so

1:27:28.000 --> 1:27:31.439
<v Speaker 1>if if they had done that, yeah, there's no evidence

1:27:31.439 --> 1:27:33.760
<v Speaker 1>because I mean people would have witnessed things other than

1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:36.639
<v Speaker 1>like not large tents. They would have seen a couple

1:27:36.640 --> 1:27:39.720
<v Speaker 1>of large trucks. And that's exactly right, is that if

1:27:39.720 --> 1:27:42.640
<v Speaker 1>there had plus you know, what the thing is is

1:27:42.880 --> 1:27:50.400
<v Speaker 1>pretty it's a pretty specialized piece of equipment to build

1:27:51.120 --> 1:27:55.880
<v Speaker 1>and move into place and then disassemble and theoretically then

1:27:56.040 --> 1:27:59.280
<v Speaker 1>never use again. Or if Hans Low is telling the truth,

1:27:59.680 --> 1:28:02.439
<v Speaker 1>used one other time and then let's just scrap it

1:28:02.520 --> 1:28:05.360
<v Speaker 1>melted down so nobody notices. Now they would have operated

1:28:05.360 --> 1:28:07.559
<v Speaker 1>with impunity with that thing. Let's just take down all

1:28:07.560 --> 1:28:11.400
<v Speaker 1>of our enemies. Yeah, let's drop dropping planes left. Yeah.

1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:14.160
<v Speaker 1>I guess part of me was thinking envisioning some sort

1:28:14.160 --> 1:28:18.280
<v Speaker 1>of smaller device that has smaller range that could be

1:28:18.320 --> 1:28:19.840
<v Speaker 1>on the back of a truck. But then I was

1:28:19.880 --> 1:28:23.160
<v Speaker 1>realizing that, like, oh, yeah, planes are going like a

1:28:23.160 --> 1:28:26.040
<v Speaker 1>couple hundred miles an hour, so actually have a truck

1:28:26.320 --> 1:28:29.880
<v Speaker 1>that's keeping up with that. You you are not possibly

1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:33.280
<v Speaker 1>too far off track on that, because if you look

1:28:33.400 --> 1:28:36.040
<v Speaker 1>at about where they took their thirty seven degree turn,

1:28:36.800 --> 1:28:41.240
<v Speaker 1>if you were to go directly west from there, it's

1:28:41.280 --> 1:28:44.880
<v Speaker 1>only about fifteen miles to the South African border. At

1:28:44.880 --> 1:28:47.000
<v Speaker 1>that point because you know, of course borders aren't square

1:28:47.080 --> 1:28:49.640
<v Speaker 1>or straight or anything like that, and so it is

1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:53.560
<v Speaker 1>possible that they could have set up a much smaller

1:28:53.600 --> 1:28:57.680
<v Speaker 1>decoy that had a much smaller range. Other instead of

1:28:57.720 --> 1:29:00.680
<v Speaker 1>saying that the decoy had to have been in in

1:29:00.760 --> 1:29:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the mountains where the plane crashed, so that that is

1:29:04.800 --> 1:29:07.800
<v Speaker 1>technically possible that they could have been that close and

1:29:07.920 --> 1:29:11.120
<v Speaker 1>spoofed it, and that's why it didn't draw in more planes.

1:29:11.160 --> 1:29:14.320
<v Speaker 1>But there's also again, this is that anecdotal stuff. I

1:29:14.360 --> 1:29:16.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know that this is true, and we should probably

1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:18.880
<v Speaker 1>move forward here quite quickly. But other pilots have said,

1:29:19.000 --> 1:29:21.640
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, I noticed that my Puoto's v O R

1:29:21.800 --> 1:29:25.400
<v Speaker 1>came on ware earlier than normal that day, which is

1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:29.080
<v Speaker 1>really weird. And yet they all seemed to have tracked

1:29:29.120 --> 1:29:33.200
<v Speaker 1>into the actual Puto airport. There are there are days

1:29:33.200 --> 1:29:37.240
<v Speaker 1>so it went for various reasons. Radio conditions change. Yeah,

1:29:37.880 --> 1:29:43.439
<v Speaker 1>we talked about skipping things like yeah, yeah, But that's

1:29:43.479 --> 1:29:45.960
<v Speaker 1>the other reason. I don't think that there was any

1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.920
<v Speaker 1>South African intervention here, because you know, they should have

1:29:48.960 --> 1:29:52.160
<v Speaker 1>been already within easier because they were like sixty miles

1:29:52.160 --> 1:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>away from a Puto roughly where they made their their

1:29:54.240 --> 1:29:56.560
<v Speaker 1>turn right so, and and they said that there was

1:29:56.560 --> 1:29:59.040
<v Speaker 1>another plane that came right before after them that was

1:29:59.600 --> 1:30:02.240
<v Speaker 1>picked up. Their vo are like a hudernating nautical miles

1:30:02.240 --> 1:30:06.040
<v Speaker 1>out right, Yeah, if they've gotten within sixty miles and

1:30:06.080 --> 1:30:08.439
<v Speaker 1>then they suddenly set up autopilot. Off, let's turn onto

1:30:08.479 --> 1:30:10.320
<v Speaker 1>v O R. See what it says. Oh, it says

1:30:10.360 --> 1:30:12.719
<v Speaker 1>it's over here. I think they I think they set

1:30:12.720 --> 1:30:15.360
<v Speaker 1>their v O R the wrong frequency. You you might

1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:17.679
<v Speaker 1>be right, you and the market commission might be right again.

1:30:18.080 --> 1:30:20.799
<v Speaker 1>We said this a couple of times. I'm I'm completely

1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:23.439
<v Speaker 1>unsure at this point. Yeah, that's because otherwise they would

1:30:23.439 --> 1:30:27.040
<v Speaker 1>have picked up the R. All right, Well, I guess

1:30:27.439 --> 1:30:30.479
<v Speaker 1>that means that we should get into, as Devin calls it,

1:30:30.640 --> 1:30:36.880
<v Speaker 1>business end in business housekeeping. House cleaning is a much

1:30:36.920 --> 1:30:40.640
<v Speaker 1>different process which maybe would happen to Samara Michelle. Uh So,

1:30:40.680 --> 1:30:43.840
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna go ahead and give you some details here,

1:30:44.200 --> 1:30:47.639
<v Speaker 1>the first of which is our website. You can find

1:30:47.800 --> 1:30:50.760
<v Speaker 1>this episode at all episodes, as well as some of

1:30:50.800 --> 1:30:53.479
<v Speaker 1>the links for this particular story from the research that

1:30:53.520 --> 1:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>we did on our website. That website is Thinking Sideways

1:30:56.479 --> 1:31:00.679
<v Speaker 1>podcast dot com. We are available on just about every

1:31:00.760 --> 1:31:04.519
<v Speaker 1>audio source out there, so of course we are on iTunes,

1:31:04.560 --> 1:31:08.160
<v Speaker 1>so if you use iTunes, do go ahead and subscribe,

1:31:08.320 --> 1:31:12.240
<v Speaker 1>rate and review. If you are using a streaming service,

1:31:12.840 --> 1:31:14.639
<v Speaker 1>we're on just about every one of them, and if

1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:18.040
<v Speaker 1>that allows you to do a review or a rating,

1:31:18.240 --> 1:31:22.160
<v Speaker 1>please do. We prefer positive reviews, but we will take

1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:25.160
<v Speaker 1>not so positive ones. But of course, if you've got concerned,

1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:27.640
<v Speaker 1>get all of us directly, because we can't communicate with

1:31:27.680 --> 1:31:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you through a review. We are on all of the

1:31:32.040 --> 1:31:35.120
<v Speaker 1>social media, all of it, absolutely every bit of it.

1:31:35.200 --> 1:31:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Were well, that's okay, they don't make music, Yeah, yeah, no,

1:31:40.800 --> 1:31:47.520
<v Speaker 1>you're absolutely right. Okay, Well we're we're We're on Facebook,

1:31:47.760 --> 1:31:50.559
<v Speaker 1>so we have the Facebook page and the Facebook group.

1:31:51.320 --> 1:31:54.680
<v Speaker 1>So like the page, join the group. There's good conversations

1:31:54.720 --> 1:31:57.519
<v Speaker 1>always going on in the group. We are on Twitter.

1:31:57.640 --> 1:32:00.759
<v Speaker 1>We are thinking Sideways without the G in the middle,

1:32:01.560 --> 1:32:06.200
<v Speaker 1>wherein Devin sends out weird comments and pictures because that's

1:32:06.200 --> 1:32:08.160
<v Speaker 1>most of what our Twitter is, although there's some good

1:32:08.160 --> 1:32:11.720
<v Speaker 1>bitticisms in there. Yeah, I'm the best at witticism. That's

1:32:11.760 --> 1:32:16.800
<v Speaker 1>like my most marketable skill. We also have a subreddit

1:32:16.880 --> 1:32:20.040
<v Speaker 1>which is thinking Sideways. So if you use Reddit, or

1:32:20.080 --> 1:32:22.479
<v Speaker 1>you want to use Reddit, that is a good form

1:32:22.520 --> 1:32:25.439
<v Speaker 1>to go to to discuss the stories that we've covered.

1:32:26.000 --> 1:32:29.639
<v Speaker 1>There are multiple ways to support the show. You can

1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:33.040
<v Speaker 1>go ahead and purchase merchandise on the right hand side

1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:36.360
<v Speaker 1>bar of the website that I gave you just a

1:32:36.400 --> 1:32:40.800
<v Speaker 1>second ago. There are there's both Zazzle and red Bubble.

1:32:41.040 --> 1:32:47.320
<v Speaker 1>They have different merchandise on each, some shirts, sweatshirts, stickers, mugs,

1:32:47.400 --> 1:32:50.280
<v Speaker 1>there's all kinds of different stuff out there. Um, I'm

1:32:50.320 --> 1:32:52.840
<v Speaker 1>still slacking and making new stuff, but there's a bunch

1:32:52.880 --> 1:32:55.519
<v Speaker 1>of other stuff there. So if you want something like that,

1:32:55.560 --> 1:32:58.479
<v Speaker 1>go check it out. We are on PayPal, so we

1:32:58.560 --> 1:33:00.559
<v Speaker 1>have the PayPal set up. If you want to do

1:33:00.600 --> 1:33:04.519
<v Speaker 1>a one time contribution to the show to financially support us,

1:33:04.840 --> 1:33:07.360
<v Speaker 1>that's awesome. We appreciate that, and you can do that

1:33:07.360 --> 1:33:11.040
<v Speaker 1>through PayPal. If you want to contribute to the show

1:33:11.360 --> 1:33:15.519
<v Speaker 1>on a continual basis, then that would be where you

1:33:15.560 --> 1:33:19.080
<v Speaker 1>would take advantage of Patreon, which is p A t

1:33:19.520 --> 1:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>R E O N so it's Patreon dot com slash

1:33:22.439 --> 1:33:27.720
<v Speaker 1>thinking sideways where you can pledge whatever you are comfortable

1:33:27.760 --> 1:33:31.000
<v Speaker 1>with per episode. So each sign of episode comes out

1:33:31.000 --> 1:33:35.240
<v Speaker 1>a normal Thursday show, you would contribute that amount, So

1:33:35.320 --> 1:33:37.640
<v Speaker 1>that is completely up to all of these methods. By

1:33:37.680 --> 1:33:41.720
<v Speaker 1>the way, they are completely optional. We appreciate for everybody

1:33:41.760 --> 1:33:46.320
<v Speaker 1>everybody who has donated, but it's not a requirement. So yeah,

1:33:46.360 --> 1:33:51.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we only charge for the regular, regular Thursday shows.

1:33:51.400 --> 1:33:54.120
<v Speaker 1>And we'll also say that we don't ever do any

1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Patreon exclusive content. There are a lot of podcasts out

1:33:58.000 --> 1:34:01.320
<v Speaker 1>there that do charge fork of content. We are not

1:34:01.360 --> 1:34:03.679
<v Speaker 1>one of those. We think that it should be free

1:34:03.720 --> 1:34:07.120
<v Speaker 1>for people. If people can't afford it or you know,

1:34:07.200 --> 1:34:09.599
<v Speaker 1>don't want to correntry reat, that's fine. But of course

1:34:09.600 --> 1:34:13.599
<v Speaker 1>if you're sticking rich and hey, we definitely appreciate any

1:34:13.640 --> 1:34:16.120
<v Speaker 1>support you can give us. I mean, it's you know,

1:34:16.200 --> 1:34:19.240
<v Speaker 1>it's it's paying our bills and also getting us two

1:34:19.479 --> 1:34:23.080
<v Speaker 1>cons and things like that in the future. Um, and

1:34:23.439 --> 1:34:25.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess you know again, it's probably worth mentioning every

1:34:25.880 --> 1:34:28.120
<v Speaker 1>once in a while that like, we don't reap any

1:34:28.160 --> 1:34:31.840
<v Speaker 1>personal benefit from it. We're not making money on this podcast.

1:34:31.920 --> 1:34:35.240
<v Speaker 1>No no, I I like we're buying all nice watches

1:34:35.320 --> 1:34:37.320
<v Speaker 1>and stuff like that. No, no, we can't quit our

1:34:37.360 --> 1:34:42.200
<v Speaker 1>day job. Well, which is fine by us, absolutely, just

1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:45.320
<v Speaker 1>so you know. That's when you donate on Patreon or

1:34:45.360 --> 1:34:48.840
<v Speaker 1>PayPal or even by merch The goal is to just

1:34:48.880 --> 1:34:52.639
<v Speaker 1>support the show absolutely. Um. Now, there is one last

1:34:52.640 --> 1:34:54.639
<v Speaker 1>method to get a hold of us, and that is email.

1:34:54.760 --> 1:34:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, you can send us an email at Thinking

1:34:57.760 --> 1:35:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com and you can send uh,

1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:07.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, story suggestions, accolades, concerns, things like that. That's

1:35:07.760 --> 1:35:11.160
<v Speaker 1>all welcome. I do want to make a quick, quick

1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:13.559
<v Speaker 1>little communication with everybody, which is I've noticed a couple

1:35:13.560 --> 1:35:17.600
<v Speaker 1>of things, which is, think about what you're writing, or

1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:20.920
<v Speaker 1>reread what you're writing, because sometimes I've realized people are

1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:24.400
<v Speaker 1>sending us emails everybody's we see this comment all the time.

1:35:24.439 --> 1:35:27.679
<v Speaker 1>People say it's like sitting around listening to old friends

1:35:27.720 --> 1:35:30.400
<v Speaker 1>talk and so you you consider as friends, which is great.

1:35:30.439 --> 1:35:33.799
<v Speaker 1>I really really like to think that. But we don't

1:35:33.880 --> 1:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>sit around and talk to you all the time directly personally.

1:35:37.040 --> 1:35:38.760
<v Speaker 1>So when you go to send us a joke or

1:35:38.800 --> 1:35:41.200
<v Speaker 1>something where you expect your friends would know that you're

1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:44.200
<v Speaker 1>rolling your eyes and giggling while you say it, we

1:35:44.360 --> 1:35:46.280
<v Speaker 1>don't get that because all we get is your words.

1:35:46.880 --> 1:35:50.960
<v Speaker 1>So reread your email, think about the context. The other

1:35:51.040 --> 1:35:53.839
<v Speaker 1>thing is that we started getting a number of emails

1:35:53.840 --> 1:35:56.240
<v Speaker 1>that I would say here, lest we always solicit feedback

1:35:56.520 --> 1:36:00.040
<v Speaker 1>constructive criticism, there's been a little more direction that have

1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:03.360
<v Speaker 1>been coming in, and by that I mean people sending

1:36:03.400 --> 1:36:05.840
<v Speaker 1>us emails saying what we should or should not do,

1:36:06.040 --> 1:36:08.080
<v Speaker 1>or saying your stories we should or should not cover.

1:36:08.960 --> 1:36:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Everybody has a different perspective. We do this because we

1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:15.200
<v Speaker 1>like it and what you may not find as an

1:36:15.240 --> 1:36:19.040
<v Speaker 1>interesting subject, other people really enjoy. Every time that we

1:36:19.200 --> 1:36:22.680
<v Speaker 1>do a story that somebody doesn't like and they send

1:36:22.760 --> 1:36:25.360
<v Speaker 1>us an email about it, we get five other emails

1:36:25.360 --> 1:36:27.240
<v Speaker 1>from five of the people who say we love it,

1:36:27.280 --> 1:36:29.800
<v Speaker 1>and we want more of that. So think about the

1:36:29.840 --> 1:36:33.559
<v Speaker 1>fact that everybody has a different perspective, and we were

1:36:33.640 --> 1:36:36.599
<v Speaker 1>trying to cover all our bases and give it something

1:36:36.640 --> 1:36:40.000
<v Speaker 1>for everybody and not just you personally, because we make

1:36:40.040 --> 1:36:43.679
<v Speaker 1>it for you and us and literally a million other people.

1:36:44.160 --> 1:36:47.040
<v Speaker 1>And if you want suggestions on podcasts that focus on

1:36:47.080 --> 1:36:51.519
<v Speaker 1>specific things, We've got those, yes, So that's fine. I'm

1:36:51.600 --> 1:36:55.720
<v Speaker 1>happy as there are butt loads of pasts out there,

1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:59.479
<v Speaker 1>definitely for everyone. And I don't want that to sound

1:36:59.520 --> 1:37:02.280
<v Speaker 1>negative of or that I'm picking on anybody. It's just

1:37:02.880 --> 1:37:07.760
<v Speaker 1>again it's context. So that is all I've got. That

1:37:07.960 --> 1:37:11.000
<v Speaker 1>is our the last of our business for the day.

1:37:11.280 --> 1:37:13.760
<v Speaker 1>So we will go ahead and wrap this up and

1:37:13.800 --> 1:37:17.479
<v Speaker 1>we will talk to you guys next week. Bye guys.