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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by else who

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Speaker 1: Steell sucks to make dresses. Instead is supported by the

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Speaker 1: generous contributions of people like you, our listeners on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you stories of things we

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, of course,

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Speaker 1: as always, joined by Devin and Joe, and this week

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a mystery. Of course, because

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Speaker 1: by the time this episode comes out, there will be

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Speaker 1: some presidential stuff going on. So I figured we'd talk

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Speaker 1: about a president who happens to be in a different

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Speaker 1: country ex President and a dead president prime minister president.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's always referred to as president most of

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Speaker 1: the time, so I'm gonna call him a president. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so not the guy who swam away from wait, from

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Speaker 1: the ocean. He was trying to get away from that ocean.

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Speaker 1: It caught up. Now this week we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the death of Mozambican President Samara Michelle, who died

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Speaker 1: along with thirty three other people when the presidential plane

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Speaker 1: which was a tuple of t U one three four

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Speaker 1: A three crashed into a South African hillside on October nine,

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Speaker 1: six um and it's believed by many people to have

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Speaker 1: been an assassination, which was executed by intentionally crashing the plane.

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Speaker 1: President at all. Before we get into the story, I

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Speaker 1: do want to say that this is a listener suggestion.

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Speaker 1: This is an ash story. Oh yeah, we haven't done

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Speaker 1: a way Ashes stories in a long time. You haven't.

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Speaker 1: And we haven't even gotten through half of his suggestion.

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Speaker 1: I know. I didn't even intend. I didn't realize this

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Speaker 1: was an suggestion until I got to it. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, it's another suggestion. We're like through the first thirty. No,

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Speaker 1: we love it ash um. Okay, So before we get

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Speaker 1: into the story the crash, we do need to cover

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Speaker 1: some background information on both Michelle as well as some

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Speaker 1: other people and the area, because there was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of turmoil in the region and that plays in it

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Speaker 1: plays into the story. So first, let's start with the

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Speaker 1: country of Mozambique, which is where some more Michelle was

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Speaker 1: the president of Bob Dylan wrote a song about it.

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Speaker 1: Did he really came out in the seventies, I think

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Speaker 1: it was right after the decolonization and it was taken

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Speaker 1: over by Marxist. Okay, because for a second I was

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Speaker 1: thinking you were talking about there was a time where

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Speaker 1: Bob Marley had gone to the same region, but that

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Speaker 1: was for another country which suddenly I don't have the

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Speaker 1: name of, but I know it's further along in my

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Speaker 1: script and I'll call it out when we get there. Um, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if you're your geography, isn't that great with with South

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Speaker 1: Africa and not the country, the area the southern part

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Speaker 1: of Africa, Because that I was just had a moment

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Speaker 1: where I was like, uh, you keep saying the beak

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Speaker 1: is the country, but then you're saying in South Africa.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm confused, So the southern region of Africa not

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Speaker 1: South Africa. Correct. If you are familiar with or not

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Speaker 1: familiar with it, you will look at a map and

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Speaker 1: on the very bottom of the tip you will see

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Speaker 1: the country of South Africa, and to the right of

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Speaker 1: it on the coast is Mozambique, just directly to the

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Speaker 1: north eastern side, and then there's a small country sandwich

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Speaker 1: in between South Africa and Mozambique, which is called Swaziland.

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Speaker 1: So that's where it is, and it's a Swazilands and

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Speaker 1: its bitsy teeny tiny country. It kind of sandwiched. It's

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Speaker 1: completely surrounded, its surround really landlocked. But yeah by those

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Speaker 1: two countries, surrounded on three sides by South Africa and

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Speaker 1: one side. Yeah. Yeah, for about four hundred years, Mozambique

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Speaker 1: was Portuguese colony. And okay, so I got a safer second.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really I knew Portugal head colonies. I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that it's still had colonies this far into the

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Speaker 1: modern era for some reason. I mean, it's just a

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Speaker 1: failing on my part for from a historical perspective apparently,

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Speaker 1: but I was like, it's a Portuguese colony. I thought

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Speaker 1: the Portuguese lost all our colonies like two hundred years ago.

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Speaker 1: We know not everything, but I mean most places that

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Speaker 1: had colonies still have colonies. Is that not accurate? My

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Speaker 1: problem is is that I'm used to the British, who

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Speaker 1: you know, returned all of their colonies primarily or most

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Speaker 1: of them. They they don't have, but like two colonies anymore.

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Speaker 1: It feels like and I know that's not the right number.

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Speaker 1: Please don't send an email. I know too isn't the

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Speaker 1: correct number, but there was a lot of turmoil in

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Speaker 1: the last forty or fifty years and they have of

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Speaker 1: those countries of all returned to their own governance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in some fashion. Mostly most of the eclonization took place

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Speaker 1: in the sixties, you know, a few held onto the seventies. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, this was a Portuguese colony, and as Joe

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Speaker 1: was just talking about, in the sixties there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of revolt against the Portuguese government. A grilla liberation

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Speaker 1: group became very active starting around four and they were

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Speaker 1: openly fighting the Portuguese government. The name of this group

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Speaker 1: is the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of a mouthful. So thankfully everybody uses the acronym

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Speaker 1: for LIMO, which is much easier to say, I do too.

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Speaker 1: For LIMO fought against Portugal and made progress towards their

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Speaker 1: goal of taking back the country, slowly but surely. One

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Speaker 1: thing that really helped them is that they weren't the

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Speaker 1: only colony struggling to do this, and there was actually

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Speaker 1: liberally Asia movements in Angola, Portuguese Guinea and as as

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Speaker 1: well as Mozambique, and in nineteen seventy four, after fighting

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Speaker 1: wars on multiple fronts, there was a coup in Portugal

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Speaker 1: which brought down the existing government and it was replaced

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Speaker 1: by one that was totally willing to grant independence to

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Speaker 1: the colonies. So the short version is Mozambique granted its

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Speaker 1: independence in nineteen seventy five and for Limo, being the

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Speaker 1: main force, took power. They became the governance at that time,

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Speaker 1: and they quite quickly kicked out the two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand Portuguese citizens who were living in country, so

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Speaker 1: they were literally taking everything back. A lot of African

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Speaker 1: countries came to regret though, Uh there was there was

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Speaker 1: positives and there was negatives. They there they did leave

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Speaker 1: a pretty significant gap in terms of commerce, and uh

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Speaker 1: there was some other areas that that really struggled because

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Speaker 1: of it. Men in the they most of them have

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Speaker 1: overcome that. It took them time. That's as it always does. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they when you're a colony, right, all of

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Speaker 1: your infrastructure is run. But the power colonizational power is

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Speaker 1: that it's much easier to say yeah, um, so I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, as soon as they say you know what,

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Speaker 1: you're cut off it's like people who know how to

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Speaker 1: run the machinery. Well, it's you know, it's just like

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Speaker 1: you know, being like a college kid and getting cut

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Speaker 1: off from your parents all of a sudden, you're you

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Speaker 1: have no idea what you're doing and you have to

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Speaker 1: kind of fend for yourself. And it's a great analogy.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard, That's exactly what it is. Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: luckily most of these places have really at least kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. They've grown up to use your college kid analogy.

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Speaker 1: They've grown up. I have to say, the of all

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Speaker 1: the all the countries out there that were forward colonies,

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Speaker 1: the ones that are consistently doing the best are the

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Speaker 1: ones that were colonized by the British. You know, I

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Speaker 1: mean they really are. That's accurate. Actually, yes it is.

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Speaker 1: And you look at like you know, Believes to India,

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Speaker 1: to Canada, America to where is that that other place?

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Speaker 1: That other place, yeah, that other place. Yeah. Even in Africa,

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Speaker 1: the African countries that were colonized by the Brits, they're

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Speaker 1: doing great. I wonder if there is a better access

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Speaker 1: strategy that happened there. Uh, you know what, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a long road for us to

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Speaker 1: run down. Yeah, let's let's not go there. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: keep focused on Mosbeak here because we're still talking about them.

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Speaker 1: Yea boswa is the country got it, okay. So when

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Speaker 1: for Limo came into power as the ruling government, they

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Speaker 1: made the entire state a Marxist lenisis is that how

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Speaker 1: you say that in Leninist thank you adding an extra

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Speaker 1: ele in there? A Leninist Marxist Leninist political organization, a

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Speaker 1: real formula for success. And so what that meant is

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Speaker 1: that they set up a socialist state for its part.

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Speaker 1: The Soviet unions obviously very happy about this. They have

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Speaker 1: a new friend in town. But that didn't really didn't

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Speaker 1: really make everybody else in the area happy. But we'll

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Speaker 1: get into that in a second. Um Michelle Samoura Michelle,

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Speaker 1: he was involved with for Limo from its beginnings. He

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Speaker 1: very quickly rose to power through the organization, such so

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Speaker 1: that in nineventy he was elected the leader of the organization.

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Speaker 1: So in seventy five, when the Portuguese left and for

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Speaker 1: Limo stepped into the government, choose he was kind of

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Speaker 1: the natural, the natural person to take over, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't it wasn't. There's a whole bunch of backstory here.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't immediately just the number one guy, but we're

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Speaker 1: just kind of shortening this to keep it simple. And

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Speaker 1: the important thing he was president. He was president. And

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Speaker 1: the other important thing to know is that almost immediately

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Speaker 1: there was detractors who were not happy with him or

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Speaker 1: for Limo, and a counter group or counter movement began,

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Speaker 1: and that was the Mozambican National Resistance, which in the

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Speaker 1: beginning went by the acronym of just M and R.

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Speaker 1: But later on they change their name. And this name

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Speaker 1: is sort of recent, but we'll use it just because

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see it most of the reading is Rhanamo

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Speaker 1: and they opposed the communist based government and they actually

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Speaker 1: began a civil war in nineteen seventy six. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: didn't do. So you can see country gets it's it's

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Speaker 1: independence and then immediately goes to war with itself and

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Speaker 1: the year later, like that's not a good thing. Listen,

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Speaker 1: it's just the truncated version. They're just getting all of

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Speaker 1: the crap out of the way. They're doing it fast,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, they get that out of their

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Speaker 1: system and then they have a great path to become

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Speaker 1: a really productive, amazing country. There you go that that

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Speaker 1: must have been the plan. I'm not sure. I didn't

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Speaker 1: look up any stats on how productive and amazing they are.

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Speaker 1: They actually there's been a lot of political changes in

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Speaker 1: that country over the last forty years. But it's only

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Speaker 1: been forty years, right, I mean they've only run their

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Speaker 1: country for forty years, where when we fourty years out

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Speaker 1: like not. Um, So let's keep going on. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the area. So we've

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Speaker 1: got Michelle, he's now in power. We talked about the neighbors,

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Speaker 1: which were South Africa and Rhodesia, which is modern day Zimbabwe.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Rhodesia was the one that I was

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Speaker 1: thinking of that Marley went to that he was he

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Speaker 1: went there, did a big concert during their whole run.

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Speaker 1: Also talked about Rhodesia when we talked about the Lake

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Speaker 1: City Quiepels did we Yeah, the Rhodesian Army. You're right,

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Speaker 1: we did stop coming together. But I think we have

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Speaker 1: to go to Rhodesia. That's what is telling this country

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Speaker 1: that doesn't exist anymore. Okay, So South Africa and Rhodesia,

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Speaker 1: who were both under white control, do not like this

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Speaker 1: country that is now a socialist state. They you know,

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Speaker 1: they're not fans of communism, and they begin to funnel

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Speaker 1: support and money and weapons and shelter to the folks

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Speaker 1: that are involved in Renamo, And uh, yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: not very very cool to Michelle. He he doesn't like that.

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Speaker 1: He actually has a lot of very stern words to

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Speaker 1: say to both governments for that, but then again for

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Speaker 1: his interfering their politics too. Yeah, because he was he

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Speaker 1: was at the same time doing the same thing for

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Speaker 1: the a n C, which is the African National Council,

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Speaker 1: which eventually would take over when what's that African National

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Speaker 1: Congress what did I call it? Council? Thank you over?

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Speaker 1: But they would, you know, they would be the ones

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Speaker 1: who would take over when the apartheid government in South

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Speaker 1: Africa would eventually crumble several years later, more than several

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Speaker 1: it's the along a long time. I meant several years

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Speaker 1: after the death of Michelle. I apologize, I'm mixing my

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Speaker 1: timeline there. That's my own fault. I think it was

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Speaker 1: ninety four. So yeah, they did. They struggled against that

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Okay, but let's jump ahead in time,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna jump ahead. We've got a little bit of

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Speaker 1: the backstory of the region. Let's jump to six. There

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Speaker 1: was a meeting of the heads of state of several

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Speaker 1: different African nations being held on the nineteenth of October

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Speaker 1: six in Mambola, Zambia, and the goal was to, using

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Speaker 1: air quotes here, encourage the dictator of Zaire to stop

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Speaker 1: supporting the insurgent groups that were fighting in Angola at

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Speaker 1: the time. As I understand it from the reading, Michelle's

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Speaker 1: motivation to go there was also to help quote unquote

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Speaker 1: encourage the other leaders there to stop support being Namo. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that makes sense. Right. You go to a

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Speaker 1: place and you say, hey, listen, yeah, I'll support you

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Speaker 1: in this if you support me in that. Yeah. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a given take. That's way this works. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what diplomacy is. I think it. Maybe diplomacy is

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Speaker 1: basically threats. That's why you how you know you're an American? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Michelle, along with a bunch of his staffers and journalists,

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Speaker 1: they flew to this meeting on the presidential plane, which,

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Speaker 1: as I had said in the beginning, was a Tupa

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Speaker 1: Lev TU one thirty four eight ash three, which is

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Speaker 1: a Soviet design, And you don't say I do with

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Speaker 1: a name like that, you do. It was a Soviet

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Speaker 1: design and manufactured twin engine jet laner. The first thing

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Speaker 1: I did when I heard it started going to the stories.

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Speaker 1: I looked at the crash history of the Tupi Lev

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Speaker 1: and actually that's not as bad as I thought would be. No,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the safest plane in the world. It

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Speaker 1: turns out to be not the worst either. This type

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Speaker 1: of plane, though it had been around for at that

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Speaker 1: time twenty years, and this particular plane had been in

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Speaker 1: service with the government for six years. So it's a

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Speaker 1: modern plane with the modern navigational equipment of the time.

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Speaker 1: A telegraph did not, but it did have a fax machine.

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Speaker 1: But something to note, uh this is I always found

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Speaker 1: this little strange is that the crew were actually Russian.

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Speaker 1: They were employed by the USSR and they operated the

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Speaker 1: plane for the Mozambican government, which I just I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Something about that seems a little odd to me. Well,

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Speaker 1: they probably wanted the Russians to be changing the tapes

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Speaker 1: and the bugging devices. Yeah, I mean, I guess they

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Speaker 1: kind of yeah. I mean it a little bit makes

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Speaker 1: sense to me. I can see it. It's a way

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Speaker 1: to hear, we'll give you this plane, you know, for

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Speaker 1: a discount, and then we'll give you a crew, and

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Speaker 1: let's pay for the crew. I mean, you're leasing out

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Speaker 1: the crew at that point. I get it, but it

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Speaker 1: always just seemed a little odd to have to be

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Speaker 1: leasing the crew, right, I mean, if they could just

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Speaker 1: pay them directly to or the USSR they were they

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Speaker 1: were Soviet employees. Yeah, I mean if the Soviet Union

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Speaker 1: is really just trying to play that role of like

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Speaker 1: big brother, like, yes, we will take you to encourage

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Speaker 1: them to continue the Soviet way or a socialist way.

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Speaker 1: So this is one of those things they do, is

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Speaker 1: kind of a small gesture. And then also you know,

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Speaker 1: get tons of intel and all that stuff because they're

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Speaker 1: bugging the plane. As Jeff said, um so well, let's

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Speaker 1: uh so enough about the crew. We're gonna go to

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Speaker 1: We're going back to the date of the nineteenth of

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Speaker 1: October of that six The meeting ended and because of

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Speaker 1: Michelle had as the reading always says, he had an

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Speaker 1: important meeting the next day, which it turned out was

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Speaker 1: actually his wife's birthday, though a lot of people say

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Speaker 1: that he also had some other quote unquote really important

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Speaker 1: meetings that he had to attend. Let's be honest, you're

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Speaker 1: a married man. Yeah, it's his wife's birthday. It's at

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Speaker 1: a very important meeting to be there for. So well,

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Speaker 1: she was with him, So they had they had gone

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Speaker 1: to Umbala, and and she had gone with him, and

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Speaker 1: so the rather than they've been offered to stay overnight,

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Speaker 1: she probably didn't really want to. Yeah, they didn't. They

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Speaker 1: didn't want to, so he said, no, we're going to

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Speaker 1: go home today during the day though. Yeah. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: what happens here is, uh, they decided that they're gonna

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Speaker 1: go ahead. They're gonna fly home to Maputo City, which

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Speaker 1: is in the capital of Mozambique. And the plane leaves

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Speaker 1: at six forty at night, and it takes kind of

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Speaker 1: this serpentine path, but it flies basically southeast towards Maputo,

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Speaker 1: and the weather is clear and the flights estimated to

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Speaker 1: take about three hours just just under Actually from here,

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Speaker 1: we know what happened because of the fact that we

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Speaker 1: what were recovered were the cockpit voice recorders, the CVR

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Speaker 1: and the flight data recorder or the black boxes everybody

303
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 1: likes to call them. And all those bugs at the

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Speaker 1: Russians had placed and none of the bugs at the

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Speaker 1: Russians had placed. Um, so we've got we've got all

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Speaker 1: that data. At nine o'clock that night, the so this

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Speaker 1: is they've obviously left and they're flying home. At nine

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Speaker 1: o'clock that night, the crew contacted Maputo air traffic control

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Speaker 1: to let them know that they're about forty minutes out.

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Speaker 1: And then sixteen minutes later, by the way, it was

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Speaker 1: not but it was a low it was a small

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Speaker 1: moon if I remember right, and the moon had not

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Speaker 1: yet risen. The moon wouldn't rise until shortly after the crash,

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Speaker 1: like literally ten minutes after the crash, what moon there

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Speaker 1: was would have come up, so that that would have

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Speaker 1: maybe helped things here. Like I said, they contact the

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Speaker 1: air traffic control, they say they're about forty minutes out.

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Speaker 1: Sixteen minutes later they contact them again, uh, and let

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Speaker 1: them know that they're ready to begin their descent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thirty five minutes something like that. Yeah, it's at this

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Speaker 1: point that I should explain something about how the plane

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Speaker 1: was navigating to Maputo, and that is that they were

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Speaker 1: using a vhs omnidirectional radio range finder, which we're from here.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call a v O R because that's

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Speaker 1: much easier that actually ranged that just a beacon. It's

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Speaker 1: a beacon, but that's that's part of the name in

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Speaker 1: a nutshell with the v v O R is is

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Speaker 1: it's a signal that's broadcast from a location that allows

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Speaker 1: the pilot to determine their relation to that beacon. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's because there's a phase matched pair of signals

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Speaker 1: that are being sent and through that match or mismatch,

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Speaker 1: they can tell how far they are off in a

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Speaker 1: three sixty degree circle. Is it like sonar um? No,

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Speaker 1: not exactly. Here's how it works. Yeah, no, and believe me,

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Speaker 1: I I got a hold of our experts. Thank you

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Speaker 1: to all of our experts for their how up with this?

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00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 1: I really hope this makes sense. Here's what happens is

338
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Speaker 1: there is a signal I believe it's a pulsing signal

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00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 1: that is constantly being sent out like a pin at

340
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Speaker 1: the same time, and that's being sent out in all

341
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: directions at the same time. At the same time, there

342
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: is a second signal being sent out. And in the

343
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Speaker 1: old days it used to be from a antenna that

344
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 1: was actually a physically rotating antenna, and it would rotate

345
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Speaker 1: twenty to thirty times a minute. But it is then

346
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: also put in a directional fashion shooting out that signal

347
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: so that they both start in line at true north.

348
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 1: And so if it then rotates ninety degrees to the east,

349
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Speaker 1: it's a quarter out of sinc due south, it's now

350
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: it's now half out of sink and then three quarters

351
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Speaker 1: and then they sink back up because the new rotation starts.

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Speaker 1: I hope that makes sense. Basically, it's a spiral on

353
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Speaker 1: top of another circle. Is how works. It allows them

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Speaker 1: to figure out where they are in relation to it.

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00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: It probably makes sense enough for it to matter. Yeah.

356
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Speaker 1: And the other thing to remember is these are at

357
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: the airports what they're heading for, and other airports have

358
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Speaker 1: them also, but on different radio frequencies. Correct, they are

359
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: not set on the same frequency. That would be confusing well.

360
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Speaker 1: And and the thing is is that they also send

361
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Speaker 1: out back in the day, they would send out a

362
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: Morris code signal at the same time that would say

363
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: essentially this is Maputu Airport, over and over and over

364
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: and over, so that you didn't tune into it and

365
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: start to fly to it and then realize you were

366
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Speaker 1: going to the wrong airport. You could pick that code

367
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Speaker 1: up right away, but would you use other airports signals

368
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Speaker 1: to navigate off of, like knowing, hey, we're two hours

369
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Speaker 1: into the flight, we should be passing this city. I

370
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Speaker 1: under if I understand it correctly, Yes, okay. It is

371
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: a method of navigation, not only to a specific destination,

372
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Speaker 1: but to know where you are in relation to other

373
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Speaker 1: places as you pass through their signal path. You can

374
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Speaker 1: actually I just these compass and autopilot I think for

375
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: most of it, and then just do corrections off when

376
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: you pass an airport. Maybe, but I just wanted to

377
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: make sure that that would be a thing that they

378
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: would be switching between frequencies during the flight. They could be. Yes, Um,

379
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: so the flight crew is using the Maputo v O

380
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: r UM. That's how they're guiding into the airport because

381
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: that's where they're going. I don't know if they actually

382
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Speaker 1: picked it up yet. They they were only half hours, Joe.

383
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Speaker 1: The vrs have a range of up to two miles,

384
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Speaker 1: and they were forty minutes out, which made them about

385
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,959
Speaker 1: sixty miles or so away from the airport, so they

386
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: were definitely in its range and they were definitely going

387
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: to be picking it up there flying that slow. Well,

388
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: they were, they were about to descend. You don't start

389
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 1: to send two miles out, do you. I don't know.

390
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: The point is they were, they were within it's it's

391
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: It's envelope. They had definitely been picking it up, and

392
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 1: they were they had tuned into it because that's where

393
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: they were going to head to. They go ahead, and

394
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: like I said, they tell air traffic control that they're

395
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: going to start their descent. Air traffic control says, listen,

396
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: go ahead and tell us when you're at when your

397
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: altitude reaches three thousand feet or if you see our

398
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: runway lights, contact us then and then we'll talk. Yeah,

399
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: I know, it's really funny. And if we're talking clear night, yes,

400
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: clear knight, not a cloudy night anything like that. The

401
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: mystery really gets going at about nine ten at night

402
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: because that's when the plane, for a reason that nobody knows,

403
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: made a thirty seven degree turn to the right, so

404
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: it banked and turned west because it was headed south

405
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: at that point, So now it's heading not southeast but southwest,

406
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: which nobody knows why that happened. On the cockpit voice recorder,

407
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: you can hear the captain remarking about it, to which

408
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: the navigator says, v O R indicates that way, okay,

409
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: and so that's what he says. So and it's significant,

410
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: right that it's a Soviet crew at this point. Is

411
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: so presumably it's not a crew that's used to making

412
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: this run. This seems like a sort of run that

413
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: that would be incorrect. This crew had been making this run.

414
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: They had been flying in and out of this airport

415
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: quite a few times. It wasn't like it was their

416
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: first time. Okay, that's weird. Yeah, it's it seems like

417
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: he would kind of be used to it. Yeah. Now,

418
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: granted today we're a little spoiled because everybody uses GPS

419
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: and it's so much more precise. But you know, they

420
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: were like the instrument says go that way, go that way,

421
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: and it's a pretty big bank to make those it's

422
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: a pretty big course correction. Yeah, And essentially they would

423
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: have had to believe they were like, you know, way

424
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: way far off to the east. They would have had

425
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: to be heading out into the ocean by accident. Well,

426
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: and they would have I mean, I'm sure that they

427
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: would have been used to seeing certain landmarks and that

428
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: geographic stuff, right, and so very true. Right, So even

429
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: if the navigator is like, well it says to go

430
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: that way, you would think the pilot would be like,

431
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: but those are the mountains that should be there, like what,

432
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: I don't think it? Right? Yeah, it was dark, so

433
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: that's the thing. As you guys said, there was no

434
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 1: moon yet, and when they were flying there was navigational aids.

435
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: They weren't seeing things that they were expecting to be seeing,

436
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: like certain lights or certain um radio signals should have

437
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: been coming and they should been picking up certain things,

438
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: and they were and where they were commenting on that

439
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: they were, and they believed that the power was out

440
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: in the city, so they figured that, oh, the electricity

441
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: must be out. I think the captain says something like,

442
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's running dark, chaps, or something like that.

443
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: It seems a little I guess it seems a little

444
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: odd to me that they would have made radio contact

445
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: with the tower and not been like, oh, hey, by

446
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: the way, So they do because when they hit the

447
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: three thousand feet mark, they get ahold of the air

448
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: traffic control and they say, we're three thousand feet. And

449
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: by the way, we can't see the runway lights. Can

450
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: you check the runway lights? Yeah, go double check that

451
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: they're on look out the window, buddy. Um. And they

452
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: actually asked that twice. So they asked them to check

453
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: that twice. Um. They're in their descent. They think that they're,

454
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, within a thousand feet of the ground at

455
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 1: this point, and they're ready to land, so they've dropped

456
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: their landing gear or lower the landing here I should say,

457
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: the thousand feet of the ground at that time. Were

458
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: they well, they thought they were. You know, if I remember,

459
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: I think that the power told them to descend to

460
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: three thousand feet and stayed three thousand, and they had been.

461
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: The problem was they had continued to descend, presuming that

462
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: they were on target and that in another thousand feet

463
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: or so they'd be on the ground. The problem is,

464
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: of course, they didn't stop at three thousand feet, even

465
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: though nobody confirmed that. Yeah, they kept saying, I don't

466
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: know what's going on here. Um, so they are, they're

467
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: about twenty miles or twelve miles out or twenty kilometers

468
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 1: out at this point, and then the ground proximity warnings

469
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: start going off, which is the warning that says, hey,

470
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: the ground is right under you, pull up, but how

471
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: how far right under you? Okay, so right right under

472
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: you because I think the ground warning that you're going

473
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: to hit that house. Yeah, they went off, and they

474
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: actually descended another two hundred feet I think it was.

475
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: They kept going down. And that's another thing that nobody

476
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: can really panis to why they did that. They kept

477
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: going down even though the alarms going off. I mean,

478
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,239
Speaker 1: the crew is swearing they can't figure out what's going on.

479
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: They're not happy. I believe that. I believe they thought

480
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: the ground proximity alarm was just defective and they decided

481
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: that apparently, and they kept talking to the air traffic

482
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: control for another twenty two seconds. Yeah, I mean, I

483
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: guess you know, if if your ground proximity thing is

484
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: going off, right, you would assume that either you're seeing

485
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: lights from the ground because you're pretty dang close to

486
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: the ground, or your sensor is faulty and you're where

487
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: you think you are and you believe that you're in

488
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: the spot that you have been in a hundred times

489
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: so far. So this part is bad. Yeah. The problem

490
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: was is that it turned out the ground proximity warning

491
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: was right, It was not wrong. As I said, they

492
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: had the wheels down. The plane continued to descend, so

493
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: you know, the goes off. Twenty two seconds later, the

494
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: plane crashes into a hillside. So, as I understand it,

495
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: what happened is the wheels and the belly of the

496
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: craft hit the top of one of the hills in

497
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: the area that it was in. It bounced off of

498
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: that hill into the next hill, didn't go nose first in,

499
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: but you know, went into it, at which point one

500
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: of the wings hit a tree and it starts tumbling.

501
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: There was a total of forty four people on this plane.

502
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Nine of them survived, so thirty four of them there

503
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: thirty four including samhere Michelle, it was thirty four deaths

504
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: lone of there were forty four people and nine survived.

505
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, so here's the here's the weird thing

506
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: about the numbers. Thank you for pointing that out, because

507
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: I remember reading this and then it caught me. Math

508
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: isn't my thing. But one of the people that survived

509
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 1: the crash initially died from the injuries two months later,

510
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: so that's why it's okay, that's what screw me. Up.

511
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: So there's where I did my math. Nine people survived initially,

512
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: but then one of them died two months later after that,

513
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: so technically eight survivors to st Yeah yeah, no, not

514
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: not awesome. Um, but one of the one of the

515
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: people that was on there that we talked about was

516
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: Samara Michelle's wife, Grasha Michelle, and you might recognize her

517
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: name because she would later go on many years later,

518
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: about a decade or more later, she married Nelson Mandela,

519
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: so she was his wife. It puts her in one

520
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: of those really unique categories as being the first first

521
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: lady of two different nations, which is something that you know. Obviously,

522
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: she's the first that's never really happened before she and

523
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: she was she was Nelson Mandela's second wife. Correct, it

524
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: was her second marriage and his second, which is fine. Yeah,

525
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty obvious at this point that the

526
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: plane was not in fact over Maputo Airport, Puto maybe

527
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,719
Speaker 1: was not suffering some kind of weird power loss, and

528
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: actually they had banked into the forest. Well what had

529
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: happened is because of that thirty seven degree turn, they

530
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: ended up in the La Bombo Mountains, which is on

531
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: the border of Mozambeque, Swaziland and South Africa corners. Yeah,

532
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: it's a weird little Noman's land. It's about thirty five

533
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: miles away from Maputo, which I guess would be fifty kilometers. Um,

534
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: so it's yeah, it's a it's a weird hilly area

535
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: and the elevation is somewhere around feet. But it is

536
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: where they would expect had they been on the correct

537
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: course and then banked the way they did, That's where

538
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: they would expect them to have been, right. Okay, I

539
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: just want to make sure based on the time and

540
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: the speed and they're travel that is correct. I just

541
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we're saying that like that

542
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: made sense. The turn didn't make sense. But yeah, the

543
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: term is one of the big mysteries along with why

544
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: they why they didn't didn't seems like with planes, um,

545
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: the turn is often turn can spell disaster. Yeah. Now,

546
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: I think it's also going to be pretty obvious here

547
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: that you know, because they've been communicating with air traffic

548
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: control when they suddenly stopped communicating and then didn't say

549
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: anything again to Maputo, that they launched a huge search

550
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: and rescue operating because they knew their president was on

551
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: that plane. Absolutely correct. The plane went down just after

552
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: nine o'clock at night. But because of where it crashed

553
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: in that weird little Noman's land, that little tri corner

554
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: as you called it, Um, it wasn't until about midnight

555
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: that the first South African police officers arrived at the

556
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: crash scene. So you keep saying just after nine pm,

557
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: I think it was like, yeah, I just want to

558
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: be actually, no, wait a second, if they made the

559
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: turn at yeah, I guess it would be around when

560
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: the when their last communications were. I just yeah, because

561
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: for me, you know, a little after nine is not

562
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: and I will accept that. Um. So the plane goes down,

563
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: it's not till after midnight that the first South African

564
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: police officers get there. Yeah, several hours. And that's because

565
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's not a highly populated area. It's

566
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: not as if cell phones are ubiquitous. It's you know,

567
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: you gotta do things by driving to places to get phone,

568
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: you know, find people. Yeah, well there's not like that.

569
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: There was a village right nearby, right, but the village

570
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: had to then contact and then somebody had to come

571
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: out and they had to be like, wow, there was

572
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: a big explosion there and then somebody had to take

573
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: them seriously, and so they get there about midnight. About

574
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: an hour later, the first medics arrive and it's not

575
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: until quarter to four a m. That a medical chopper

576
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 1: actually arrives to transport the survivors to the hospital. So

577
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: these poor people have been on the ground literally for

578
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: about six hours. So that didn't help the mortality rate

579
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: among the crash victims. Now you're probably asking yourself, well,

580
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: during that time, what were the South Africans doing the

581
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: police what were they doing? And the answer would be

582
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: they were collecting paperwork. Were they not also administering first Okay, yes,

583
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: I'm not being fair. I'm not being fair. We're doing

584
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: what they could pulling people out of the wrecords. But

585
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: at the same time they were running around picking up

586
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 1: every single piece of paper that was floating around. They

587
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: were opening luggage to find any and everything of import

588
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: that they then were carting away to copy because this

589
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: is an an intelligence bonanza at this point. Yeah. One

590
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: of the things that they find and they sees is

591
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: the cockpit voice recorder. They sees it under the auspice

592
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: of fear that it can be tampered with, which is

593
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: the weirdest reasoning I've ever heard of. I mean, it

594
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: technically is their jurisdiction, but they, the South Africans did

595
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: a lot of weird stuff during this. But I'm just

596
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: saying that, like I weird or not, we can say

597
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: it's like super nefaragous that they see this thing, but

598
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: it's their jurisdiction. Of course they're going to take it.

599
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: You're right, Well, it's also besides, I mean, did they

600
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: see did they just did they just secure it? Yeah,

601
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: they took it. Well I know they took it, but

602
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: I mean it seems like you should take it and

603
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: put it somewhere, and you took it, wouldn't get it,

604
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: didn't take a while to get it back to he

605
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: had to do it under threat of legal action. Like

606
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: it's it's really hokey what happened here. But um, if

607
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: we move forward in time, I think it's around six am,

608
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: but maybe a little before that, the South African Minister

609
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: of Ford Affairs Pick both arrives and they also by

610
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: the way about this time or shortly thereafter, let a

611
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: South African news crew on the site and pick both

612
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: of begins to talk to the camera crew and he

613
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: starts making really strange statements, which in retrospect everybody said,

614
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: we're diversionary tactics, but they were still really weird because

615
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: he starts saying things like, well, obviously the flight crew

616
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: was drunk on vodka because they were Russian, or obviously

617
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: the plane was old and poorly kept, which didn't actually

618
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: turn out to be true. I'm gonna say something here,

619
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: are you sure he wasn't just racist? I'm not going

620
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: to respond to that because I can't. I don't know,

621
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: because this, like this sounds like somebody being like, well,

622
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: oh they were Russians. Oh well they were drunk on

623
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: vodka and like doing Mother Russia the favor like that,

624
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: like you know exactly where you're going. It had the

625
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: same thought myself. It could not necessary because the rescues

626
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: are white. It's racism. Okay, we're just gonna leave that alone.

627
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: He also continued to make other weird state ments. Uh.

628
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: He said that obviously the meeting that Samora Michelle had

629
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: been at wash was meant to set up a plot

630
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: overthrow the government of Malawi. Uh. And then he also

631
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: made statements about how Samora Michelle were both his and

632
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: President Botha's dear friends. By the way, there might be

633
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: a bit of confusion there. Pick was the foreign uh

634
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: foreign affairs minister. There was also the president at the time,

635
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: who was of no relation of South Africa, also had

636
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: the last name of sort of. It was just a

637
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: weird little thing there, But like I said, you know,

638
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: none of his claims were true and nobody could ever

639
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: ever pin down why he was doing it because he

640
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: did it for like a year. At the same time,

641
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 1: the bodies of everybody who died in the crash, they're

642
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: collected and autopsies would eventually be done on four members.

643
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: Are actually a total of seven people, four of whom

644
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: were members of the flight crew, and then three others

645
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: who were passengers on the plane. But there's for and

646
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: so there's that seven, and then there's also another group

647
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: of six bodies that were not autopsy that when they

648
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: were returned to the Mozambican government, had these weird seven

649
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: m seven millimeter long cuts on their necks that were

650
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: stitched closed and they were done postmortem, and it's believed

651
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: that that was done to collect blood samples. But it's

652
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 1: the weirdest way to collect blood samples. Since I don't

653
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: know needles or a thing. But maybe this is a

654
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: field method to do it. I don't know. The Karatid

655
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: agree where that set. I believe so. Yes, and they

656
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: were postmored postmortem. They were also proven according to the

657
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: Mozambique Medical Commission, they weren't the cause of death for

658
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: these people. So it's not as if somebody cut their

659
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: throws open and stitched them closed to keep it quiet.

660
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: I guess for me, the like the weird part is

661
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: stitching them back closed. His horror. Yeah, like why you know,

662
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 1: like if they their dead bodies and you're not trying

663
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: to hide respect. I mean, that's the only thing I

664
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: can come up with is maybe it's out of respect

665
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: to the dead. I mean, you're already like keeping from

666
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: leaking everywhere. I don't know, super glue man, you're laughing,

667
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 1: but I mean, like that's like, I know, that's why

668
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: I was invetted. I don't I know. Um, Okay, So

669
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: we had already talked about here a little bit, the

670
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: fact that there was a town nearby that was the

671
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: town of Bezzini. And yeah, yeah, okay, this is not

672
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: my language, so I'm going to run with that is Bazzini. Um,

673
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 1: and those people did the people of that village did

674
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: go to the site, but they also make claims about

675
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 1: how when the soldiers arrived they chase them away, which

676
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: I don't. You got to secure the scene, right, Yeah,

677
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: that's exactly my point. I don't. I don't find that

678
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: bit weird suspicious. Okay, So by the way, um, we

679
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: should probably go back to Mozambique for a second, because

680
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: they're still looking for their president and it's not till

681
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: ten to seven in the morning that the South African

682
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: government lets them know that they found the plane and

683
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: then they told him it was in a different spot,

684
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: did kilometers away the different spot? Things suspicious? The you know,

685
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: waiting realistically a couple hours. I mean, I don't know

686
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: how fast ward travels that, oh, especially right we're talking

687
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: like analog days. The phone still is a thing. But

688
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I'm saying that, like, Okay, so

689
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: plane goes missing, right, so your air controller is going

690
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: to call your government and you're going to mobilize your military.

691
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: You're not going to call every single branch of the

692
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: police in all of the country surroundings. So I will

693
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: rebut that a little bit, which is that there foreign

694
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: ministers had gotten ahold of the South Africans to let

695
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: them know. So the South African government knows this but

696
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: gets a call ethics four or five in the morning saying, hey,

697
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: we found this plane and a crash and we're pretty

698
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: sure the president of Mozambeeque is on it. But we're

699
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: assuming that. Um, the people who were contacted in the

700
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: South African government were also likes well that they were

701
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: letting right. So at that point they could have turned

702
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: around and said, we think we found your plane, but

703
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: we're I'm just saying that, like you're you're attributing. I

704
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: just think it could be bad communication. It could be

705
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: also that they just wanted to give like wait until

706
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: people were up, because at this point, planes down, people

707
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: are dead. Just let him sleep in for a few

708
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: more hours. Maybe they were just being considerate college dorm rules. Okay,

709
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: I think that is less likely than like bad communication,

710
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: because like if they're I mean, they're if if they've

711
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: been communicating, hey we lost our president, they're already awake.

712
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: Everyone knows they're awake. But yeah, okay, well, let's just

713
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: assuming that they wanted a few extra hours just to

714
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, gather up more intail. And I think that's

715
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: what I think. That's what it is. They were busy

716
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: photo copying and photographing everything they could get their hands

717
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: and making weird cuts and bodies right. Well, that didn't

718
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: happen till later the an investigation is launched into this crash.

719
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: This is based on the Chicago Convention, which was agreed

720
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: to by the countries in that area of several years prior.

721
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: The crash was investigated jointly by the countries of South

722
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: Africa because that's where the plane had crashed, by the

723
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: country of Mozambique because it was their plane, and by

724
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union because they were the manufacturer of the plane.

725
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: So we've got three organizations involved in this joint investigation.

726
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: But it didn't last very long because both the Mozambecon

727
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: and the Soviet delegations pulled out because they felt like

728
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: the South Africans just weren't involving them. They were they

729
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: were cutting them short on things, they weren't giving them

730
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: all the information. So in the end it ended up

731
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: being a South African investigation. It was headed up by

732
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: Judge Cecil margot Uh and it's commonly referred to as

733
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: the Margot Commission, and that name might sound a little

734
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: familiar to anybody who's listening to this podcast, because if

735
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: you remember the seven crash of South African Airlines flight,

736
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: we covered that while back. The Margot Commission also investigated

737
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: that crash. So there's a weird another weird connection. And

738
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: the longer we do this, the more connections between every story.

739
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're all connected. I was just gonna say,

740
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: it's the Octavius. Oh man, I'm not as young and

741
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: quick as you once were. Whipper snapper already, um so

742
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: moving it was swamp gas, right? They did not because

743
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: there was a swamp nearby. No, um no. The Margot

744
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: Commission actually concluded that the whole thing was caused by

745
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: crew error. Uh they were. They said that the crew

746
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: was negligent in their duties, which is why they made

747
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 1: both the turn and why they didn't follow the procedure

748
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: when the ground proximity warnings went off. Basically, they're saying

749
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: there was no reason for them to turn. That was

750
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: a bad move and they should have stopped descending or

751
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: pulled up when the warnings went off. Well I would too.

752
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: This might be where Russian technology quality comes, quality control

753
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: comes into because it comes into play because they might

754
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: have thought it's just it's just not working right, you know,

755
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: because the crew itself, the ground proximity along the crew

756
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: themselves thinking that about the because I think in the

757
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: faulty part, yeah, I mean, if that thing is going off,

758
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: the only reason you're not going to pull up unless

759
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: you're drunk on vodka. Course, And the only reason you're

760
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: not going to pull up is if you think it's

761
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: just yeah, I guess, uh, well, I'll wait intil theory,

762
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: because you know, what the thing is that it's funny

763
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: you say that because there is some stuff in the commission.

764
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: But the Soviets themselves, they were not happy with the

765
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: results of the Margo Commission, and they submitted a minority

766
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: report of their own, and that is where they they

767
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: put out or put forward the idea that the plane

768
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: was actually led off course intentionally by a decoy v

769
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: O R. So that that signal we talked about before

770
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: somebody spoofed it and led them astray. That really didn't

771
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: get a lot of traction at that time, But fifteen

772
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: years later the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was open. Yeah,

773
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: and I don't so the TRC was set up after

774
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: the apartheid government fell apart, and from the way I

775
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: understand it, what it did is it looked into situations

776
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: where humans right violations were made with no care by

777
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: the South African government, and they were they would help

778
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: do what they could, either documented or possibly fixed, do

779
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: what they could. Now, I don't know why they got

780
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: involved in this case short of the fact that they

781
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: that Mandela's now wife was involved with it, or the

782
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: fact that people have been saying for years that the

783
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: South African government was responsible for the doubting of this plane.

784
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: You know, they they actually gave a little bit of

785
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: credence to the idea that there was a decoy v

786
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: O R, whereas the Margot Commission completely poo pooed that.

787
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: Um so, I mean, I don't know that. The other

788
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: thing that they did do is they couldn't confirm that

789
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: there was a decoy. But the other thing that they

790
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: did do is they really throw dirt at the South

791
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 1: African government and kind of said maybe they knew something

792
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: more than they had led on. By the fact that

793
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: it had been confirmed that the South African government had

794
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: been tracking Michelle's plane prior to the turn, so they

795
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: had known where it was for quite a while, and

796
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: they didn't. They didn't. They never contacted him to say, hey,

797
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: hey guys, you know your way off course, or be

798
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: hey guys, you're in South African airspace, or see, hey guys,

799
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: you should stop going down there's a mountain there. Well,

800
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: first of all, they didn't know what the flight was,

801
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: the flight subjective was then, and and it's not their job,

802
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: and the crash just they didn't. They didn't spend any

803
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: time in South African airspace to speak of. I'm in

804
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: total agreement with that. The they should have called as

805
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: soon as they hit South African airspace is just bad

806
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: to me because it doesn't make any sense. They were

807
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: literally in South African air sprace for I believe about

808
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: thirty seconds at the speed they were trapped. So there's

809
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: not a there's not a whole lot to that. Okay,

810
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: So now let's get into theories. And I've got our

811
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: theories broken up into two sections, very simple, real or

812
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: not real. No, and don't say suicide because that's not

813
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: a theory either. Know that the sections are who done

814
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: it and how? And the who done its section is

815
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: actually really really easy because there are so many players

816
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: involved in the area at the time that anybody could

817
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: have benefited from taken Michelle out. He had already survived

818
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: several assassiny allegedly, I actually should say that allegedly had

819
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: survived several assassination tempts in in the recent past. The

820
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: South Africa government didn't like him because a he was

821
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: he was a socialist. Uh. There was also the racial

822
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 1: aspect of the apart Aid government versus Michelle. There's also Rhinomo.

823
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: They would have had the group that was opposed to

824
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: the government since seventy six. They had a stake in

825
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: the game because if if they took out the president,

826
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: maybe they can take out the socialist government or you know,

827
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: move themselves into positions of power. Um. There's the president

828
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: of Malawi who didn't like Michelle because Michelle had the

829
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: president of Malawe. What this guy had been doing is

830
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: he's been doing with a lot of people. Had he

831
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: been sheltering NAMO soldiers. And as retaliation, Michelle had said,

832
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: if you keep doing that, I Am going to put

833
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: missiles all along the border of my country and any

834
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: of your planes that come into our airspace will be

835
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: shot down, which effectively would shut down a lot of

836
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: trade for them because things were flying in and out

837
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: of the country. So that guy didn't like him. There's

838
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: also he had so one of the things that you

839
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: will here said is that he was going home that

840
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: day so that the next meeting he the next day

841
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: he could have a meeting to restructure both the government

842
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: and the military. Because it turns out socialist systems are

843
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: notorious for corruption what and he was one of those

844
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: few guys that in that kind of regime didn't stand

845
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: for that. He had had evidently gone after people before

846
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: who were accused of being corrupt, got rid of competitors

847
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: by accusing the corruption there. That is a very good point,

848
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: But I'm going to make him sound much more noble

849
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: than that and continue to say that he fought corruption

850
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: in his government. But the point is those people may

851
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: have said, uh no, he is not taking me out

852
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: of this cush push chair that I'm in. I'm taking

853
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: that plane. Yeah. The thing about it is when your

854
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: president for life, you know that sooner or later people

855
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 1: we're just gonna keep piling up enemies for life. That's

856
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: the interesting thing. But he might as well have been

857
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: effectively he was he was. He was. He was in

858
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: office for what eleven years it was it was socialists,

859
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: So there were party elections. But yeah, I mean those

860
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: those are easy to rig I'm not I'm not foolish

861
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: enough to think that they were. They were free elections.

862
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: But I get what you're and the problem with who

863
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: done it? Could have been anybody. I mean it literally

864
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: could have been anybody, because there was things to be

865
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: benefited but for or gained by a lot of people.

866
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: I'm doubting them the least. Oh yeah, no, I really

867
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: think the Soviets, based on what they did, I would

868
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: say they probably didn't do it. I would say that

869
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: they did interfere at a certain by putting out the

870
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: accusations at the South Africans, and we'll be talking about this,

871
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: you know that they duped them into crashing. They were

872
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,439
Speaker 1: definitely stirring the pot. And then there was a lot

873
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: of stirring the pot. Yeah, yeah, I was delivered on

874
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: your part. I doubt they even believed it. You know. Well,

875
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: let's uh, let's go ahead and talk about the first

876
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: theory of how so this is actually along the lines

877
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: of what Joe was talking about, which is that the

878
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: theory is is that indeed this was crew error and

879
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: it oh, actually this, since this is a different one,

880
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: I apologize from what Joe was saying. This is that

881
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: it was Crewe error and that they did in fact

882
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: make a mistake with the v o R because they

883
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: was just drunk on vodka. No, no, no, all of

884
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: that was proven wrong. No, you know that's wrong. That's

885
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: what we were at. I'm positive I learn that there

886
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: are autopsies turned up a fair amount of alcohol in

887
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: their systems, but of course, on your body decomposes, it

888
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: was nothing outside of the range of what you would

889
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: find in a normal decomposing body. It's absolutely correct. So

890
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: the the official line or belief of the Margot Commission

891
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: is that the crew had made the error of setting

892
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: one of their two v o R receivers to the

893
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: wrong frequency. Maputo uses hundred and twelve point seven Mega hurts.

894
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: Matsafa Airport, which is a hundred and twenty miles away

895
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: in Swaziland, uses a hundred and twelve point three Mega hurts.

896
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: The two airports that are kind of close together, I

897
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: would think that would space them further apart. Yeah, I

898
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: I really I looked at that. Mc guys, really come on.

899
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: But the Margot Commission blamed the mistake on the design

900
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: of the receiver in the airplane, saying that the numbers

901
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: three and seven the way they were displayed, looked similar.

902
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, I've never seen an image of

903
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: their v O R receiver, um, so I can't I

904
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: can't support that or deny it at all. But I

905
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: also kind of think that that's maybe the commission having

906
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: a bit of bias against the way the Russian plane

907
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: was designed and the Russians themselves, the Soviets. Maybe I

908
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: certainly they were aheaded in the right direction, but they

909
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: were looking at that v O R A that a now, well,

910
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 1: well what they're saying though, what the what the Margot

911
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: Commission is saying is that they were on the wrong frequency.

912
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: So if you look at the map and the trajectory

913
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: that they were on, they were actually heading in a

914
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: pretty a pretty straight course to Matsafa. So it's it's

915
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: understandable why they came to that conclusion. But if you

916
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: were listening, you may have noticed that I said that

917
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: one of their two receivers, this plane had two v

918
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: O R receivers, and when the investigators looked at the

919
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: second one, they found that it was set to the

920
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: correct channel, which was Matt Puto's signal, but they wasn't

921
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: one of them, the backup. Yeah, they didn't use them

922
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: both all the time. And so it seems that what

923
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: they had done is they had set the they picked

924
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: up their their trajectory based off the v O R

925
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: or their their course, they adjust did and from there

926
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: they turned on probably the autopilot, which just had a

927
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: course heading, you know, and the autopilot took care of

928
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: the next however long it was, which would have meant that,

929
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, when they made that turn that put them

930
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: on a heading of two degrees, if anybody had happened

931
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: to look at the backup, they might have realized that

932
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: they were completely off course. And so that's where the

933
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: Margot commission is saying, is that they failed their duties

934
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: because they picked up the wrong signal and didn't look

935
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: at the other one or check it again later on. Yeah.

936
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: So they they've got the autopilot going for a long

937
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: time and then when they come off that bearing and

938
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: turn onto the v O R and they realized, oh,

939
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: we must have been blown off by a cross and

940
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: blown way off course. And so understandably they made that

941
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: course of joke and then they turned the autopilot back

942
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, so it's I don't know, Yeah, I

943
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: guess for me, I mean the fact that they reached

944
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: out a pup of times to say like, hey, are

945
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: your lights on? Though, like they had questions, right they

946
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: there was something in them, Yeah, there was something that

947
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: was in the in them that was saying like, okay,

948
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: but we should be seeing lights, like these are the

949
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: things we should be seeing. Why are we not seeing

950
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: those things? And to you know, as I understand it,

951
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: they were getting feedback from the tower that was like

952
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: all the lights are one they were. They were radio

953
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: communication like what what do you mean you don't see

954
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 1: the lights? Like, if you're where you're supposed to be,

955
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: you should be seeing the lights. I think the tower

956
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: responded to the light question after the second request. They

957
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: didn't do it right away, right, But I mean they're

958
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: managing a ton of air traffic, right, you don't expect

959
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, for me, that's that's where

960
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: the problem comes in. Is if they were being totally negligent,

961
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: maybe they're being a little lazy. You're like, whatever, this

962
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 1: is the right thing. But if you've made the run

963
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: a hundred times, you know what to look for. And

964
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: if you're not seeing those things, and you're even like

965
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 1: mentioning that you're not of alarm bells and you should

966
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: be doing something. And then when alarm bells that hey

967
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: you're at a weird altitude go off, maybe you should

968
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: be listening to those things. And so, by the way,

969
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: they didn't. They don't have Did they have air traffic

970
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,720
Speaker 1: control in Mozambique or did they have it in those days?

971
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: Were their radars operating? Oh? Did were they? Is anybody

972
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: tracking their plan just as the South Africans, I don't know,

973
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: To be honest, I've never that's a great question, and

974
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: I've never actually seen anything that said anything about that.

975
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: I will mention that there's a lot of controversy over

976
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: the records of the Maputo air Traffic Control because things

977
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: like their tapes of the conversation are gone. They were

978
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: quote unquote lost or disappeared, were just recorded over we used. Yeah, well,

979
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't I don't know if they

980
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: were actually saving anything. I doubt that they had the

981
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: capability at the time to digitally save anything. So it's

982
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: not as if you know, today you all we see

983
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: this thing where you can play back the radar to

984
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: see what the heck was popping up. I don't think

985
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: they they had I don't know that technology was available,

986
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: but a sorry as audio tapes, so you know you

987
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: definitely save those. Well they tried, so they just appeared

988
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: they went the way of the Dodo. Okay. So I

989
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: don't know about this one. I'm I have mixed feelings

990
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: on the crew error especially Yeah, I mean, it sounds

991
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: like they realized that something was wrong. They may not

992
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: have reacted in time. But yeah, yeah, I know, I know,

993
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: I think that no matter how you cut it, even

994
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: if even if there was some skullduggery on a part

995
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: of certain parties, the crew is still screwed up. They

996
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: may yeah, they may have been a little uh lax

997
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: in their reactions. If that if what you're going out

998
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: is there. Yeah, so let's talk about skull duggery. Let's

999
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: talk about the false decoy or a false v o

1000
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: R decoy v o R because, like I said, the

1001
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: Soviets and their minority report, they said that they had

1002
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: to have been led astray and led into South Africa,

1003
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: and in their in the minority report, they get weirdly

1004
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: specific and say that obviously, and I'm using quotes here,

1005
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: obviously it was built using technology that was provided by

1006
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: the Israeli Intelligent Agents, which intelligence agency. Which that's just

1007
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: that's an odd massade. Yeah, it's something about the massade.

1008
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: It's it's a weird thing to to slide in there.

1009
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, well yeah, I mean that this at

1010
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: this time, you know that the Soviets were still they

1011
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: were trying to stir the pot everywhere, included in in

1012
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: the Israelis at that time were allies of the South

1013
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: Africans and so they were they were always trying to

1014
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 1: stir up trouble in the Arab world too, so work

1015
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: in Israel, and I can see why they would do that.

1016
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that. So

1017
00:59:54,760 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: from from that point on though, the claims of a

1018
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: decoy or mobile vel v o R began to come

1019
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: up and surface, and I did some digging into this

1020
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: with some online sources and then also by reaching out

1021
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: to some of our experts who I mentioned a little

1022
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: bit before. So I do want to reach it. I

1023
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: do want to say thank you to one Zach Kim

1024
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: and Ronnie all of those experts. You guys saw the

1025
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: emails back and forth, and yeah, yeah, there was there

1026
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: was some high math in there that I had to

1027
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: work on for a few days, but it made sense

1028
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: and I couldn't have done it without these folks. Thank you.

1029
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: This is why we have experts. That's the thing that

1030
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: I've been noticing a little bit about our experts though,

1031
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,439
Speaker 1: as they assume we know too much. Like sometimes I'll

1032
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: respond with like a really interesting answer, but you're like,

1033
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: but I need to google like five of these, so

1034
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what any of that means. Thank you,

1035
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 1: I think, but thank you to everybody because what that

1036
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: did is that help me understand better how a v

1037
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: o R worked, and even more so, how you could

1038
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: spoof one. So that was really important that you don't

1039
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: find it a lot of the online stuff. Now. In

1040
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: two thousand three, there was a South African man named

1041
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: Hanslow who came forward. He was near the end of

1042
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: his jail sentence and he was in jail for crimes

1043
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: committed outside of the regime's instructions, which I have to

1044
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: take means he went a little trigger happy, probably, but

1045
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: he said that he was part of a South African

1046
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: team of special forces that were at the crash site.

1047
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: The night of the crash, he was on a backup team.

1048
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,959
Speaker 1: The primary team was running the decoy v O R.

1049
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: He was in a backup team that was there with

1050
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: RPGs with the express intent of if the plane doesn't

1051
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: crash on its own, it doesn't take the bait, shoot

1052
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: it down. I don't think an RPG is going to

1053
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 1: be really any good for taking a plane down. I

1054
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: mean maybe, like, yeah, listen, I played too many video

1055
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: games and they all go boom everything. Yeah, I know

1056
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: in a video game, I can take an airplane down

1057
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: with a ten millimeter It's actually we're going to talk

1058
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: about the little things that you can bring a plane

1059
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: down with because it's actually kind of scary how easy

1060
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: it is. But no, you're a surface air missile. So

1061
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: they are there with armaments that would take it down

1062
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: if if it didn't fall for the trick. I guess, yeah, yeah,

1063
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't believe this guy's story, and I

1064
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: don't think I have to do too much to really

1065
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: trough that out because there's a lot of hearsay about

1066
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: what he has to say. And there are one or

1067
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: two people who came out and said, oh, yeah, I know,

1068
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: we we know the guy who made it. He's telling

1069
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: the truth. But you know, Hanslow also said that he

1070
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: was involved in another operation using the same type of

1071
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: device that brought down another plane. And oh he was

1072
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: also involved in that was other plane. He was also

1073
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: involved in the monitoring of Namibian activists by the name

1074
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: of Anton Lubowski, who was later murdered and they don't

1075
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: know who killed him. I do have to point out

1076
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: those that, you know, the locals, the ones who said, well,

1077
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: they got chased away from the site. They also said,

1078
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of military activity in

1079
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: this area the days before, but like it's a remote

1080
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: area of South Africa. South Africa was pretty militized nation

1081
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: at that They also had a supposedly they had a

1082
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: base that was there for a couple of years, so

1083
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: they could have been on exercises or they could have

1084
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: been like trying to reinforce their border. Very possible. I mean,

1085
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: let's be honest. Michelle had just said I'm going to

1086
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: put missiles all along my border, and so they were

1087
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: probably like, oh, let's go check that out. And then

1088
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: there was suspicious activity in terms of there was a

1089
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: really big tent erected on that site. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1090
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: that's like how the locals say, how big of a tent,

1091
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 1: like really really big, like as big as an airplane,

1092
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: as big as a bread box. Now just big, bigger

1093
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: than your average you know, troop tent, you know, a

1094
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: big tent, but we don't know what it is from

1095
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: that was it was it hiding like Thor's hammer or

1096
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: so We're going to move on while you try to

1097
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:27,919
Speaker 1: find wall. Though, Let's let's circle back a little bit

1098
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: to the v o R and talk a little bit

1099
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: more about that, like how it could have been spoof. Yeah,

1100
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: this this is where this is heading, because that for

1101
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: me is like way less complicated or out of unbelievable. Yeah,

1102
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: I'm willing to go there. So the thing do you

1103
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: need to know about the v o R is they

1104
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: tend to be really big. They're big things. Like one

1105
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: of our experts was saying that to make one mobile

1106
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: or it was an expert I read somewhere, they said

1107
01:04:58,040 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: that it would have had to have been on the

1108
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: back of a three on truck, which is basically a

1109
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: semi and that's from its correct because they are also

1110
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: superpower hungry, so you got to bring a lit another

1111
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: truck or two with with the generator on it right,

1112
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: and if the farther you want to throw its signal,

1113
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,439
Speaker 1: the higher up in the air, you need to run

1114
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: the antenna. So you could you could conceivably need an

1115
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: antenna that's fifty hundred hundred and thirty feet tall. I mean,

1116
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,919
Speaker 1: we're talking about a big antenna. These things though, they're

1117
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: big and bulky, so it's a little weird to think

1118
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: about that, you know, the way that somebody could carry

1119
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: one of those around. But one of the things that

1120
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 1: are the expert Zach pointed out for me is that

1121
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: when you have two v rs broadcasting on the same frequency,

1122
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 1: unless one is massively stronger than the other, they might

1123
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: actually cancel each other out, which then defeats the purpose.

1124
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: It's also gonna like, you know, they're on the same frequency,

1125
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: you would think that they'd be going like, well, VR

1126
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: points this way and this way and yeah, or it

1127
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 1: comes up and down back and forth. Yeah. I mean

1128
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: they put it a call to the airport to say

1129
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 1: what's going on with this exactly. But the workaround for that,

1130
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: rather than having this competing signal issue would simply be

1131
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: to have an inside man at the Mputu Airport. Who

1132
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: could during the time that you want, you knew that

1133
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: the President's plane was going to be coming by a

1134
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: certain area, flipped off the switch. So now you you

1135
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: turn on the decoy. The decoy runs for a certain

1136
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: amount of time until you can confirm that the plane

1137
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: is turned and then you flip on the real one

1138
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: again and you turn off the decoy. That also would

1139
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: solve the problem that I had with the decoy, which

1140
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: is if the decoy was running, it should have caught

1141
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: more planes. It should have drawn more planes than just

1142
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: this one planes. The other thing about it is is, uh,

1143
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 1: this a little conspiracy requires an amazing amount of coordination.

1144
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: Uh somebody was where did they leave from? It was yeah,

1145
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: so somebody. So they had to have somebody at Embald

1146
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:12,919
Speaker 1: Airport to let them know when the plane took off

1147
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: and headed south. They would have known, They would have

1148
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,439
Speaker 1: had a fair approximate idea what the airsped air speed

1149
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: of it would be no when it was approaching. It's

1150
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 1: objective complex, but they had to have They had to

1151
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: have a guy at that airport to provide them with

1152
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: that information. They had to have a guy at the

1153
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: at Maputa Airport to flip off the switch, and then

1154
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: they had to have these guys running. I mean, this

1155
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: is this, this is a well greased operation. It's amazing.

1156
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: Kind of actually, Joe, can I can I kind of

1157
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: cut off part of that plan for you. They made

1158
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 1: contact with air traffic control and then they made their

1159
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: turn so that it could be as simple as they

1160
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: made They initiated the handshake of high we're here, and

1161
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: somebody says turn it on, turn it off, and they

1162
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: flipped the switches right then plane turns. They know the

1163
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: crew is probably not going to continue to monitor the

1164
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 1: v o R, and they turn it back off once

1165
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: they've confirmed that they've made their turn, and that simplifies

1166
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:15,959
Speaker 1: the number of people involved to start the beginning, I suppose. Yeah.

1167
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: But and then I guess they could turn it off

1168
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: and then they could like to start their truck up

1169
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: and get the hell out of there, because you've got

1170
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: a plan heading right for you. Yeah, that's exactly right.

1171
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: You know what. The other way that this could very

1172
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: well have gone, though, again, this is a little more

1173
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: difficult when it comes to the decoy or the false

1174
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: v o R readings is if you remember I talked

1175
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: about that the signals. When they're pointing due north, they're

1176
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: both they're in phase, perfectly in phase, and the farther

1177
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: they are out tells you where you are in that

1178
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: three sixty degrees. It is entirely possible that instead of

1179
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 1: having a dummy v o R over the border, they

1180
01:08:55,760 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: instead manipulated the v o R on site to twist it. Essentially,

1181
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: so rather than everything starting in phase at true north,

1182
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: it started in phase and let's say thirty seven degrees

1183
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: off of true norm. And is that something that's possible

1184
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 1: to be done? I don't know. I imagine that it is,

1185
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 1: though I've never heard of it being done, because it's

1186
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: it's a very simple system, but I don't know how

1187
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: easy it is to turn it and then turn it back.

1188
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: And also there were there were other planes hidden into

1189
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: that hitting into that saying airport, which is why I

1190
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: say turning it and then turning it back, because they

1191
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,799
Speaker 1: couldn't have left it in the odd position. I guess,

1192
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: like this might be a really dumb question, right, But

1193
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: like if we're talking like the flip of a light switch, right,

1194
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: you turn the one correct v o R off and

1195
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: the wrong one on. Are we talking like you walk

1196
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: into that and then ignore everything else, or are we

1197
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: because to me, like we're saying, this is a constant

1198
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: ping that's happening back and forth between your aircraft and

1199
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 1: your station if you're monitoring it. Okay, So what we're

1200
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: saying is like they pinged onto a new one, they

1201
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 1: made the turn, and then they turned the autopilot back on. Okay,

1202
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: that's what the Margot Commission alleges is that they took

1203
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: their they took their new berrying and where they turned

1204
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: the autopilot back on, which is then what led them

1205
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: to the mountains rod and where they crashed was that

1206
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: within two hundred miles away from Maputo is where they

1207
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 1: crashed realistically, but it was within the two mile okay,

1208
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: so I guess within the bubble. And then then the

1209
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: other question would be right, is that like obviously they're

1210
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: not gonna let the autopilot land, so they're going to

1211
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: hit a point where they're going to think, okay, all right,

1212
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 1: we should be getting close. They turned that off and

1213
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: suddenly they've got two v O R pings coming at them.

1214
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: They've got the landing gear again if they're well, but

1215
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 1: you would right if you're coming in for landing you

1216
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: don't think you would. You would, especially if somebody was like, no,

1217
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: our lights are all So they had they had when

1218
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: they hit the three thousand foot ceiling, they had switched

1219
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: over to oh what is there? It's visual flight proceeding.

1220
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: I can't. Basically, they were trying to do it by thing.

1221
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: You're doing it by you're doing it visually at that point,

1222
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: so you you turn on you don't you don't use

1223
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,719
Speaker 1: the VR. I guess the one don't need you anymore.

1224
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: I guess for me, one would think that a responsible

1225
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: pilot and navigator would think, okay, we'll give it like

1226
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: a minute, right, You're not going to be autopilot too visual.

1227
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: You're going to do autopilot t V O R for

1228
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 1: a minute to make sure everything's right, and then visual,

1229
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 1: which is what they did when they corrected. That's what

1230
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: they did. They turned the autopilot off and they said,

1231
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: m hmmm, the way the VR is not right. We're

1232
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: going to correct the course. And then the controllers said, okay,

1233
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: when you're at three thousand feet, let us know, So

1234
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: they turned the autopilot back on until they were at

1235
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: what they thought with three thousand feet, they were at

1236
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 1: the front assistance in the right altitude, right, But so

1237
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: one would assume that they would do the same procedure

1238
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: where they would turn the autopilot off see the v

1239
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: O R. So be careful there, Devon, because you nor

1240
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 1: I are a pilot, and you cannot imply that that

1241
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,360
Speaker 1: is the way that the process works. I can't. I

1242
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,639
Speaker 1: have tripped I have tripped us up before by making

1243
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 1: the very same assumption, and I don't know that that's

1244
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: the case. Yeah, what I don't really understand is like

1245
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:37,880
Speaker 1: how they can fly all this distance and not at

1246
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: some point be saying, where the hell are the lights

1247
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: of Maputo? But again they thought that they they said apparent,

1248
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: they made statements saying basically they thought the power was out.

1249
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: Is that we're I mean, was Maputo suffering a lot

1250
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: of brown outs at the time. I mean, I know

1251
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: in certain political strife that happened. It wasn't. It wasn't

1252
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: as if it had the strong youngest grid in the world.

1253
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: I would not be shocked that the place experienced power issues.

1254
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: You think the airport would have a backup generator. You

1255
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: would also think that when the airport said no, our

1256
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: lights are on, the pilots would be like, oh, well,

1257
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,639
Speaker 1: we can't see them. So but I think that's the problem. Again.

1258
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: That's where the Margot commission said, listen, when you've got

1259
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: that response, you should have started pulling up right instead

1260
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 1: of continuing to descend. And in fairness, they said that

1261
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 1: to dead men. So well no they I mean they

1262
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: talked for twenty two seconds. I mean there was the

1263
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: the request Oh Margot, okay, got it. Yeah, you're right. Um,

1264
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: let's let's keep going on with this, this whole false

1265
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: beacon bit, because there are people who have said that

1266
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: it is possible that there wasn't a false beacon, but

1267
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: instead that the manipulated v O R was actually the

1268
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: v O R in at the airport in Matsafa, which

1269
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 1: was as we said, only a little bit off point seven.

1270
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: But again, like we talked about before, that should have

1271
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 1: drawn more planes in to that airport, should have lured

1272
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:12,679
Speaker 1: more in that direction that were headed to Maputo, always

1273
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: saying that they set one, that they changed the frequency

1274
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 1: at the airport to the one that was in Maputo. Yes,

1275
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:21,800
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no no. Matsafa people have said that the Matsafa,

1276
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: the the v O R at Matsafa had been altered

1277
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: to appear to be the Maputo v O. I think

1278
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 1: Joe and I were on the same page in interpreting that,

1279
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 1: and that like I thought that, you know, like a

1280
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 1: pilot knee adjusted so that they were on the wrong

1281
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: frequency all of a sudden, well within the correct But

1282
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 1: that's what that's what the Margot commission is basically said,

1283
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: and they said that the crew screwed up and had

1284
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 1: it on the wrong signal, and but other people have said, no, no,

1285
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: that's probably just something that happened in the accident, and

1286
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 1: this was actually the dummy was actually at this other station,

1287
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 1: the or other airport. And the thing that's really weird,

1288
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: and this is just one of those hanky things that

1289
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:12,680
Speaker 1: you find in these stories, is that whoever it was

1290
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: that was running the the the air traffic control in

1291
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 1: Matsafa was also the same company or the same group

1292
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 1: that was running it in Maputo, and they were said

1293
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: to have links to the MOB. So people have said, well,

1294
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 1: obviously that's how they pulled it off because it was

1295
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 1: a mob deal. What are we talking about him, that's

1296
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: a great question. The other thing is that there's also

1297
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:44,799
Speaker 1: the problem that we know the conversation that took place

1298
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 1: between the pilots and the air traffic control because we

1299
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 1: have the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.

1300
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: We don't, of course have the tapes that took place

1301
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: at the end of the at the air traffic controller.

1302
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: So it's entirely possible that they were not talking to

1303
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 1: Maputo Air Traffic Control, but in fact we're talking to

1304
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: somebody else masquerading as them, which is why the tapes

1305
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: were lost because they never actually existed. Kind of hard

1306
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: to like do that though, it's not easy, and I

1307
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 1: say it because it's out there. I don't believe it

1308
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: because that is again, that is one of those things,

1309
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: as you, Joe, are so fond of saying, that is

1310
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:32,679
Speaker 1: too many links in the chain. That is just way

1311
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 1: too complex. It is alright, conspiracy simple, yeah, yeah. So

1312
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 1: let's keep moving forward here. We're going to go to

1313
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: our next theory, which is basically it's the theory that

1314
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,799
Speaker 1: there was a signal jammer or a frequency scrambler involved.

1315
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 1: I don't really I don't really get this one. But

1316
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: what happens is that this is that remember that news

1317
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 1: crew I said that South African news crew was on

1318
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 1: the site. Somebody that was involved that was on the

1319
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:06,679
Speaker 1: site and the search team walks up with a small

1320
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: device that has described as being the size of a

1321
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: pound of butter, which is a weird description of size,

1322
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 1: but okay, do you know what kind of looks like?

1323
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:20,559
Speaker 1: But it's just it's it's a strange description to me,

1324
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: that's all. But they say that it could have been

1325
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: a frequency scrambler. Uh, it was figured out that it

1326
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: was indeed not one who was this person anyway, I

1327
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: hold this for some random searcher on the site who

1328
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 1: was officially probably a military guy, a South African military guy.

1329
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 1: But that's all I can guess. Oh, he couldn't keep

1330
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 1: a secret very well. Then well he sent it straight

1331
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 1: to the news camera, which makes you wonder if that

1332
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 1: was intentional, because you know, we've talked about Stir in

1333
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 1: the pod. You could i mean pick botha was out there,

1334
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: throw and everything he could at this story just to

1335
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 1: see what would stick. So he might have said, hey,

1336
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: I've said too many teams, I've already talked to them twice.

1337
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 1: Why don't you go show this thing and say it's this? Yeah,

1338
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm making that up. But the point is

1339
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 1: is that it obviously wasn't that. But the scrambler would

1340
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 1: a scrambler would have been effective in disrupting their distance

1341
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 1: measuring equipment and probably their communications. The issue is is

1342
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: that we know that their communications were working because again

1343
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: we have the cockpit voice reporter. Um, you would think

1344
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: that it would have interfered with the v O R

1345
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: to the point that the v R signal would have

1346
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: been bad, or it would have it wouldn't have worked. Right,

1347
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,799
Speaker 1: How this thing, how this thing would have worked, doesn't

1348
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 1: make any sense that it's actually kind of a toothless

1349
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: claim to me. So I don't I don't put any

1350
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: stock into the it was a frequent jam. Yeah, yeah, No,

1351
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 1: I don't see how it could have worked either, because

1352
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 1: if we don't know if this guy was saying that

1353
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 1: it was found in the rede so somebody put a

1354
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 1: frequency grambler on the plane. Theoretically, yes, the navigational equipment.

1355
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 1: In fact, it was just a regular piece of equipment

1356
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: from the plane. So we're gonna move on to our

1357
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 1: final theory, which is that the plane was shot down

1358
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: to one of the survivors actually said several times that

1359
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: he remembered feeling an impact or an explosion just before

1360
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: the plane went down. Personally before the plane hit the ground,

1361
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:34,719
Speaker 1: because it doesn't I'm sorry, just to discount this, didn't

1362
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: we say that the plane hit a hill and then

1363
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 1: bounced off and then bounced off, and I and then

1364
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:47,840
Speaker 1: feel that is probably what he is interpreting as a explosion,

1365
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: because it would be very loud, to be very rough,

1366
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: it would throw you about. I can see how you

1367
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 1: would interpret that as an explosion. But doing our due diligence,

1368
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: when hadn't I ran down this path a little bit.

1369
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:06,719
Speaker 1: The wreckage was spread over eight hundred fifty meters, which

1370
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: is about half a mile, so there's wreckage everywhere. None

1371
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 1: of the wreckage showed any signs of having been hit

1372
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:19,599
Speaker 1: by any kind of explosive device, so like a surface

1373
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:21,600
Speaker 1: to air missile like we were talking about, because you

1374
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:25,719
Speaker 1: would expect to see heat and burn marks and things

1375
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 1: like that on the metal, and none of that was detected.

1376
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna find residue from explosives also. But there's also

1377
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff that I read out there on

1378
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 1: the internet talking about the fact that there have been

1379
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 1: planes that were brought down by things that were the

1380
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: size of a beer can. There was a small explosive

1381
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,839
Speaker 1: that if put next to the skin of the plane

1382
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:53,759
Speaker 1: and detonated while they're at altitude like thirty five thousand

1383
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 1: feet up in the air, the pressure is enough to

1384
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 1: start tearing the fuselage apart and can cause a plane crash.

1385
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:06,799
Speaker 1: But that also begs the question of if that's what happened,

1386
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 1: why the hell did they do it at two or

1387
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: three thousand feet off the ground when the plane was

1388
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: landing rather than when it was in the middle of

1389
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: nowhere and at its max altitude. Well, that's that's the thing.

1390
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, what's one of the odds. Let's

1391
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,599
Speaker 1: let's say they lured it in, it's about to crash anyway,

1392
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: Why bother shooting it down? Why why do I save

1393
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 1: yourself an expensive missile? Yeah, so there's there's a lot

1394
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 1: of problems with that. Yeah, I mean, I guess my

1395
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 1: question so were we heard the pilot and you know,

1396
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 1: everyone in the cockpit swearing a lot. So I guess

1397
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 1: there could be some sort of like hey, somebody sent

1398
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 1: like a firework or mortar up to explode, and they

1399
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: were like crop crop, crop crop or whatever, right, and

1400
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:56,639
Speaker 1: you know, corrected, and that's when they really crash. That

1401
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 1: would make more sense to me, It would explain why

1402
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,759
Speaker 1: one of the survivor would say an explosion happened because

1403
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 1: something they saw kind of exploded. It helped to, I

1404
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 1: don't know, disorient the people who were trying to steer

1405
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: the plane and help bring it down even more. I

1406
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, like that's something that I could see,

1407
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: but I definitely don't see some sort of missile. What

1408
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 1: you described is something such an extra step that it

1409
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense if the plane is already descending

1410
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: unless it was. Are you saying that's a diversionary tax

1411
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, so like their alarms are

1412
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 1: going off and they're like, you're close to the ground,

1413
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 1: and then a mortar goes off and they're like, oh

1414
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: crap or something worse that there would have been word

1415
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: about an explosion. I don't know. If all they're doing

1416
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 1: is like swearing, well they weren't just swearing. They were

1417
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:53,519
Speaker 1: swearing because of the ground proximity warning going off. They're

1418
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 1: talking to each other, they're trying to talk to air

1419
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: traffic control. So at that point I would expect that

1420
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: if they would saying, think the flayer goes off next

1421
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: to the plane or an explosion they would say, or

1422
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 1: an explosion, you know they would say, what the hell

1423
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:15,599
Speaker 1: is that? Yeah? Yeah, they yes, that that is something

1424
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: to lead us to believe that something else happened outside

1425
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: of the aircraft itself. Well, it could have been that,

1426
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, right before they graze, that hilts up maybe

1427
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 1: one of their one of their wheels at the top

1428
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: of a tree, you know, and made a big thump.

1429
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: I mean, because it is the belly of the plane

1430
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 1: in the trees that hits first. And then like I said,

1431
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: it bounced, ye, bounced up and then came right back down. Yeah,

1432
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean overall, I just I don't know what to

1433
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 1: think about this. It's so I'm pretty sure I think

1434
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: the Market Commission got a right. I think they just

1435
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 1: set their v o R incorrectly and drawn off course

1436
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 1: by that. I think maybe they just got so comfortable,

1437
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 1: right this is we said that this is a flight

1438
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 1: path that they've taken over and over and over again.

1439
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:57,720
Speaker 1: Maybe they were just so comfortable with it that they

1440
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 1: were just I was in this plane something like that,

1441
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: this crew specifically, if I remember correctly, So yeah, maybe

1442
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 1: they were just so used to their route they were

1443
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 1: just relying on their instruments because they were literally phoning

1444
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: it in. You know, I don't know if they like

1445
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 1: like when I went, for example, to set there b

1446
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: o R. I don't know if they did it straight

1447
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 1: from memory. If they had they had a booklet, like

1448
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: a pamphlet that had all the all the frequencies for

1449
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 1: all the airports in the region, I guess I would

1450
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 1: assume if it was the capital of the country of

1451
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 1: for which she were, I mean, the president, this is

1452
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:35,599
Speaker 1: their a force one, right, so you know that my heart. Yeah,

1453
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,640
Speaker 1: And I don't think that they could just get it

1454
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 1: confused with another local airport, because they would have been

1455
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:43,280
Speaker 1: making that, you know, going in all the time, saying

1456
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 1: make sure to be on point seven and not point

1457
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 1: three because we don't want to go to Matsofa. We

1458
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: want to go to But I guess in fairness that

1459
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: we don't have any way of knowing if that display

1460
01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 1: was working correctly, that's possible. Part of did you read

1461
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 1: their report, by the way, either of you get a

1462
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: chance to go. I didn't read the entire thing. I

1463
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: went to the conclusions and yeah, okay, because I went

1464
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: through parts of it, and they do the Margot Commission

1465
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 1: did sort of lay into the design of the display,

1466
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,600
Speaker 1: not just for the fact that you know, it was

1467
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,120
Speaker 1: the way the three and the seven were displayed, but

1468
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 1: also talking about the fact that there was very little

1469
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,800
Speaker 1: backlighting and it was it was hard to see, so

1470
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 1: that could it could have been, unfortunately an honest mistake.

1471
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 1: And I I and I don't. I gotta tell you,

1472
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: I didn't bother. I probably should have looked, but I

1473
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 1: don't know what the number three and the number seven

1474
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: looked like in cyrillic, So it looked like cyrillic are

1475
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 1: in Russian. I looked for it, and everything that I

1476
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: found they looked like a normal three in a seven.

1477
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: But I've also in the commission's report, they talked about

1478
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,639
Speaker 1: the fact that there's a line above both the three

1479
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: and the seven. Well, it's true, right, it's three goes

1480
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 1: like this and the seven goes like right. And you're

1481
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: you're describing the horizontal bar at the top of bull.

1482
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 1: But you've had a digital clock before, right, Yes, so

1483
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,719
Speaker 1: you've got the bar that's horizontal, and then the vertical

1484
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 1: stripe right for THEE, and then you've got you know,

1485
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 1: for three, you've got two additional horizontal bars. But but

1486
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 1: if it's not back lit. I can see why it's

1487
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:24,839
Speaker 1: an issue. It's it's very difficult. What kind of display

1488
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 1: was it was? It was it l eds or digital

1489
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 1: clocks that had the flip cards. No, I don't believe

1490
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 1: it was that in any way, shape or form. I

1491
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 1: think that it was a kind of a display, a

1492
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:46,640
Speaker 1: dial situation that then the lights of the cockpit somehow illuminated.

1493
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: But that's a total guess on my part because again

1494
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to find a good picture of it.

1495
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 1: And I found a bunch of flight simulator images, but

1496
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 1: those are not reliable, they're not so I I don't

1497
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,120
Speaker 1: know for sure. Yeah, for all I know it's an

1498
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 1: analog you know, dial and yeah, yeah, I don't think

1499
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:10,840
Speaker 1: it's actually but I think, yeah, I just don't know

1500
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,639
Speaker 1: what I think about that. I think somebody probably put

1501
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 1: the wrong frequency in the in the v O R

1502
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 1: that's mine. I think that's the most likely because you know,

1503
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the South Africans didn't really they hadn't incentive,

1504
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 1: but you know then they cost a big, a big

1505
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: nasty bruising mess on their own territory, you know, so

1506
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: if if they had done that, yeah, there's no evidence

1507
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 1: because I mean people would have witnessed things other than

1508
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:36,639
Speaker 1: like not large tents. They would have seen a couple

1509
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,720
Speaker 1: of large trucks. And that's exactly right, is that if

1510
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 1: there had plus you know, what the thing is is

1511
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 1: pretty it's a pretty specialized piece of equipment to build

1512
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 1: and move into place and then disassemble and theoretically then

1513
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: never use again. Or if Hans Low is telling the truth,

1514
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 1: used one other time and then let's just scrap it

1515
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: melted down so nobody notices. Now they would have operated

1516
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:07,559
Speaker 1: with impunity with that thing. Let's just take down all

1517
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 1: of our enemies. Yeah, let's drop dropping planes left. Yeah.

1518
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 1: I guess part of me was thinking envisioning some sort

1519
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: of smaller device that has smaller range that could be

1520
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: on the back of a truck. But then I was

1521
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 1: realizing that, like, oh, yeah, planes are going like a

1522
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: couple hundred miles an hour, so actually have a truck

1523
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 1: that's keeping up with that. You you are not possibly

1524
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: too far off track on that, because if you look

1525
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 1: at about where they took their thirty seven degree turn,

1526
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 1: if you were to go directly west from there, it's

1527
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:44,880
Speaker 1: only about fifteen miles to the South African border. At

1528
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: that point because you know, of course borders aren't square

1529
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,640
Speaker 1: or straight or anything like that, and so it is

1530
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,560
Speaker 1: possible that they could have set up a much smaller

1531
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 1: decoy that had a much smaller range. Other instead of

1532
01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:00,680
Speaker 1: saying that the decoy had to have been in in

1533
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: the mountains where the plane crashed, so that that is

1534
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: technically possible that they could have been that close and

1535
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:11,120
Speaker 1: spoofed it, and that's why it didn't draw in more planes.

1536
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:14,320
Speaker 1: But there's also again, this is that anecdotal stuff. I

1537
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 1: don't know that this is true, and we should probably

1538
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 1: move forward here quite quickly. But other pilots have said,

1539
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:21,640
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I noticed that my Puoto's v O R

1540
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 1: came on ware earlier than normal that day, which is

1541
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:29,080
Speaker 1: really weird. And yet they all seemed to have tracked

1542
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: into the actual Puto airport. There are there are days

1543
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:37,240
Speaker 1: so it went for various reasons. Radio conditions change. Yeah,

1544
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 1: we talked about skipping things like yeah, yeah, But that's

1545
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: the other reason. I don't think that there was any

1546
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 1: South African intervention here, because you know, they should have

1547
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 1: been already within easier because they were like sixty miles

1548
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 1: away from a Puto roughly where they made their their

1549
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:56,560
Speaker 1: turn right so, and and they said that there was

1550
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:59,040
Speaker 1: another plane that came right before after them that was

1551
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:02,240
Speaker 1: picked up. Their vo are like a hudernating nautical miles

1552
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 1: out right, Yeah, if they've gotten within sixty miles and

1553
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 1: then they suddenly set up autopilot. Off, let's turn onto

1554
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:10,320
Speaker 1: v O R. See what it says. Oh, it says

1555
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:12,719
Speaker 1: it's over here. I think they I think they set

1556
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: their v O R the wrong frequency. You you might

1557
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,679
Speaker 1: be right, you and the market commission might be right again.

1558
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:20,799
Speaker 1: We said this a couple of times. I'm I'm completely

1559
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 1: unsure at this point. Yeah, that's because otherwise they would

1560
01:30:23,439 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 1: have picked up the R. All right, Well, I guess

1561
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 1: that means that we should get into, as Devin calls it,

1562
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:36,880
Speaker 1: business end in business housekeeping. House cleaning is a much

1563
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,640
Speaker 1: different process which maybe would happen to Samara Michelle. Uh So,

1564
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and give you some details here,

1565
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 1: the first of which is our website. You can find

1566
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 1: this episode at all episodes, as well as some of

1567
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 1: the links for this particular story from the research that

1568
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,440
Speaker 1: we did on our website. That website is Thinking Sideways

1569
01:30:56,479 --> 01:31:00,679
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. We are available on just about every

1570
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 1: audio source out there, so of course we are on iTunes,

1571
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 1: so if you use iTunes, do go ahead and subscribe,

1572
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: rate and review. If you are using a streaming service,

1573
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 1: we're on just about every one of them, and if

1574
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 1: that allows you to do a review or a rating,

1575
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 1: please do. We prefer positive reviews, but we will take

1576
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:25,160
Speaker 1: not so positive ones. But of course, if you've got concerned,

1577
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 1: get all of us directly, because we can't communicate with

1578
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 1: you through a review. We are on all of the

1579
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: social media, all of it, absolutely every bit of it.

1580
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:40,680
Speaker 1: Were well, that's okay, they don't make music, Yeah, yeah, no,

1581
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:47,520
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. Okay, Well we're we're We're on Facebook,

1582
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 1: so we have the Facebook page and the Facebook group.

1583
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:54,680
Speaker 1: So like the page, join the group. There's good conversations

1584
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 1: always going on in the group. We are on Twitter.

1585
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,759
Speaker 1: We are thinking Sideways without the G in the middle,

1586
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: wherein Devin sends out weird comments and pictures because that's

1587
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:08,160
Speaker 1: most of what our Twitter is, although there's some good

1588
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 1: bitticisms in there. Yeah, I'm the best at witticism. That's

1589
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 1: like my most marketable skill. We also have a subreddit

1590
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 1: which is thinking Sideways. So if you use Reddit, or

1591
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 1: you want to use Reddit, that is a good form

1592
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 1: to go to to discuss the stories that we've covered.

1593
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:29,639
Speaker 1: There are multiple ways to support the show. You can

1594
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 1: go ahead and purchase merchandise on the right hand side

1595
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: bar of the website that I gave you just a

1596
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 1: second ago. There are there's both Zazzle and red Bubble.

1597
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:47,320
Speaker 1: They have different merchandise on each, some shirts, sweatshirts, stickers, mugs,

1598
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of different stuff out there. Um, I'm

1599
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 1: still slacking and making new stuff, but there's a bunch

1600
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 1: of other stuff there. So if you want something like that,

1601
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 1: go check it out. We are on PayPal, so we

1602
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: have the PayPal set up. If you want to do

1603
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: a one time contribution to the show to financially support us,

1604
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Speaker 1: that's awesome. We appreciate that, and you can do that

1605
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Speaker 1: through PayPal. If you want to contribute to the show

1606
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: on a continual basis, then that would be where you

1607
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 1: would take advantage of Patreon, which is p A t

1608
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 1: R E O N so it's Patreon dot com slash

1609
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 1: thinking sideways where you can pledge whatever you are comfortable

1610
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 1: with per episode. So each sign of episode comes out

1611
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 1: a normal Thursday show, you would contribute that amount, So

1612
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 1: that is completely up to all of these methods. By

1613
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 1: the way, they are completely optional. We appreciate for everybody

1614
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 1: everybody who has donated, but it's not a requirement. So yeah,

1615
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we only charge for the regular, regular Thursday shows.

1616
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,120
Speaker 1: And we'll also say that we don't ever do any

1617
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 1: Patreon exclusive content. There are a lot of podcasts out

1618
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: there that do charge fork of content. We are not

1619
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:03,679
Speaker 1: one of those. We think that it should be free

1620
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 1: for people. If people can't afford it or you know,

1621
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,599
Speaker 1: don't want to correntry reat, that's fine. But of course

1622
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 1: if you're sticking rich and hey, we definitely appreciate any

1623
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 1: support you can give us. I mean, it's you know,

1624
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: it's it's paying our bills and also getting us two

1625
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: cons and things like that in the future. Um, and

1626
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 1: I guess you know again, it's probably worth mentioning every

1627
01:34:25,880 --> 01:34:28,120
Speaker 1: once in a while that like, we don't reap any

1628
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 1: personal benefit from it. We're not making money on this podcast.

1629
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:35,240
Speaker 1: No no, I I like we're buying all nice watches

1630
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. No, no, we can't quit our

1631
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 1: day job. Well, which is fine by us, absolutely, just

1632
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 1: so you know. That's when you donate on Patreon or

1633
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 1: PayPal or even by merch The goal is to just

1634
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:52,639
Speaker 1: support the show absolutely. Um. Now, there is one last

1635
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:54,639
Speaker 1: method to get a hold of us, and that is email.

1636
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you can send us an email at Thinking

1637
01:34:57,760 --> 01:35:02,439
Speaker 1: Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com and you can send uh,

1638
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:07,719
Speaker 1: you know, story suggestions, accolades, concerns, things like that. That's

1639
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 1: all welcome. I do want to make a quick, quick

1640
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:13,559
Speaker 1: little communication with everybody, which is I've noticed a couple

1641
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:17,600
Speaker 1: of things, which is, think about what you're writing, or

1642
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 1: reread what you're writing, because sometimes I've realized people are

1643
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,400
Speaker 1: sending us emails everybody's we see this comment all the time.

1644
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:27,679
Speaker 1: People say it's like sitting around listening to old friends

1645
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 1: talk and so you you consider as friends, which is great.

1646
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:33,799
Speaker 1: I really really like to think that. But we don't

1647
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 1: sit around and talk to you all the time directly personally.

1648
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 1: So when you go to send us a joke or

1649
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 1: something where you expect your friends would know that you're

1650
01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 1: rolling your eyes and giggling while you say it, we

1651
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 1: don't get that because all we get is your words.

1652
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: So reread your email, think about the context. The other

1653
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,839
Speaker 1: thing is that we started getting a number of emails

1654
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 1: that I would say here, lest we always solicit feedback

1655
01:35:56,520 --> 01:36:00,040
Speaker 1: constructive criticism, there's been a little more direction that have

1656
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: been coming in, and by that I mean people sending

1657
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 1: us emails saying what we should or should not do,

1658
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 1: or saying your stories we should or should not cover.

1659
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 1: Everybody has a different perspective. We do this because we

1660
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: like it and what you may not find as an

1661
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:19,040
Speaker 1: interesting subject, other people really enjoy. Every time that we

1662
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:22,680
Speaker 1: do a story that somebody doesn't like and they send

1663
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: us an email about it, we get five other emails

1664
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:27,240
Speaker 1: from five of the people who say we love it,

1665
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,800
Speaker 1: and we want more of that. So think about the

1666
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 1: fact that everybody has a different perspective, and we were

1667
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:36,599
Speaker 1: trying to cover all our bases and give it something

1668
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:40,000
Speaker 1: for everybody and not just you personally, because we make

1669
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:43,679
Speaker 1: it for you and us and literally a million other people.

1670
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 1: And if you want suggestions on podcasts that focus on

1671
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 1: specific things, We've got those, yes, So that's fine. I'm

1672
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 1: happy as there are butt loads of pasts out there,

1673
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 1: definitely for everyone. And I don't want that to sound

1674
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 1: negative of or that I'm picking on anybody. It's just

1675
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 1: again it's context. So that is all I've got. That

1676
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 1: is our the last of our business for the day.

1677
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:13,760
Speaker 1: So we will go ahead and wrap this up and

1678
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:17,479
Speaker 1: we will talk to you guys next week. Bye guys.