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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite people in television I've ever worked

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Speaker 2: with is Michael moulva Hill Ratings Insights analytics at Fox TV.

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Speaker 2: Fascinating Listen Caitlin Clark, NFL college football, the future of

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Speaker 2: streaming in sports, all of it with Michael Moulvehill. Before

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Speaker 2: Lowest price is guaranteed. Well, I always try to stay

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Speaker 2: away from too many conversations with the suits on the

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Speaker 2: fifth floor. You just get in trouble when you're on

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Speaker 2: the air and you get in the company of powerful men.

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Speaker 2: And Michael Mulvahill, the President of Insights and Analytics at

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Speaker 2: Fox across the Board, is one of those powerful guys.

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Speaker 2: But he's so disarming first of all, and second of all,

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Speaker 2: he's got I mean, it's a perfect title, Insights and Analytics,

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Speaker 2: and there's so many things. I don't really talk a

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Speaker 2: ton about my industry. If I do, Michael's the guy

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Speaker 2: at Fox that I talk to. So there's a kind

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Speaker 2: of a myriad of topics here. Let's start with something

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Speaker 2: we've never seen before. Caitlin Clark. Now, years ago, when

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Speaker 2: Tiger Woods came into golf, there was this sense that, oh,

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Speaker 2: golf ratings are going to explode, And my takeaway was, no,

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Speaker 2: when Tiger leaves. I mean, three million people take up

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Speaker 2: golf a year and three million people quit. It's hard,

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Speaker 2: But there are these Caitlin Clark, Michael Jordan figures in

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Speaker 2: our life that are just unique and spectacular. Women's ratings

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Speaker 2: have been growing. Do you see Caitlin Clark as the

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Speaker 2: creator of a new reality, or to some degree she's

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Speaker 2: just a spectacular unicorn with her style, tenacity and excellence

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Speaker 2: for multiple years.

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Speaker 1: That's a great place to start. And first of all,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I really enjoy doing this with

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Speaker 1: you from time to time. I also try to avoid

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Speaker 1: having conversations with powerful people up here on the fifth

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Speaker 1: book Women, I have that in common. Look, certainly, this

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Speaker 1: is a unique moment in the evolution of interest in

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Speaker 1: women's sports. I don't think we've ever seen such a

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Speaker 1: groundswell in interest across certainly basketball, collegiate volleyball, international soccer.

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Speaker 1: I think what we're seeing is the payoff of literally

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Speaker 1: over fifty years of Title Mind and the way that

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Speaker 1: that's changed the way that girls have access to sports,

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Speaker 1: and the way that both men and women think about

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Speaker 1: women's athletics. And it's brought us to this moment where

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Speaker 1: college basketball ratings on the women's side are up sixty

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Speaker 1: percent across all networks, and Caitlin Clark's game on Sunday

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Speaker 1: against Ohio State did almost three and a half million viewers.

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Speaker 1: And I think your question is the right one. You know,

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Speaker 1: what does this mean going forward and is Caitlin at

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Speaker 1: Unicorn And I don't think she is, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that what she is is she's at the four

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Speaker 1: front of an evolution in the skill level that we

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Speaker 1: see in women's basketball and the players that are coming

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Speaker 1: up behind her, whether that's Page Beckers who's coming back

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Speaker 1: for another year at Connecticut or Juju Watkins who has

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Speaker 1: several years to go at Southern cal and obviously they'll

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Speaker 1: be part of the Big Ten next year. I think

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Speaker 1: she's just on the leading edge of a new generation

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Speaker 1: of players that are elevating the game. I think Tiger

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Speaker 1: Woods is an interesting precedent as well. I think you

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Speaker 1: could even go back as far as the nineteen eighties

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Speaker 1: NBA where Magic and then Jordan entered the league and

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Speaker 1: they were at a skill level that we hadn't seen before,

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Speaker 1: but they just represented an evolution of the game that

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Speaker 1: then continued even after they had moved on. So I

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Speaker 1: think on once Caitlin moves on to the WNBA, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure that we'll see viewership at the collegiate level.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what we're seeing this year, But I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's a reset back to where we were five

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Speaker 1: years ago. Either, I think a a permanent step forward

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Speaker 1: has happened, and we're still going to see some pretty

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Speaker 1: strong interest in the future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also think men's and women's college basketball

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Speaker 2: ratings will be closer. One to your point, the evolution

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Speaker 2: and progress and development of women's basketball. We've got forty

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Speaker 2: fifty years of young ladies being encouraged to be athletes,

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Speaker 2: and we're seeing the payoff. But I also think there's

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Speaker 2: a reality about the NBA in college basketball is unlike

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Speaker 2: college football in the NFL, they don't work together. The

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Speaker 2: top four picks in this past draft in the NBA

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Speaker 2: came from four different leagues. It's too much. It's a

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Speaker 2: turnstyle when you add the transfer portal to the one

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Speaker 2: and done. If I can't name three duke starters, but

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Speaker 2: I can name two Iowa women's starters, that tells you

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Speaker 2: what's happening. I would argue the G League.

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Speaker 1: I think the NBA.

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Speaker 2: Adam Silver has always had a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: chip about college basketball. Noways getting paid in college basketball,

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Speaker 2: so maybe it's a different vibe. But I think the

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Speaker 2: G League was created to give talented basketball players who

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Speaker 2: perhaps didn't want to go to college real money and

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Speaker 2: real opportunities without having to pass through college basketball. But

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Speaker 2: I do wonder, Michael if that's hurt the college game

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Speaker 2: and the pro game. I've often said, I know Zion

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Speaker 2: for one reason, Duke he goes to the G League.

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Speaker 2: He's Jalen Green.

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Speaker 1: What do I know?

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Speaker 2: I know Jalen Green's talented. I didn't watch him in college.

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Speaker 2: I don't think men's college basketball barring a transformational figure,

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Speaker 2: and I think Zion was. I think men's basketball and

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Speaker 2: women's basketball are going to be semi close here on out.

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Speaker 2: Am I wrong on that?

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Speaker 1: I don't think you are, And in fact, I think

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Speaker 1: when we look ahead to March Madness this year, I

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Speaker 1: think the difference in view worship, which is what I

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Speaker 1: spend all my time thinking about the difference in viewership

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Speaker 1: between the men's national championship game and the women's National

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Speaker 1: championship game, I think it's going to be closer than ever.

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Speaker 1: You know, last year that margin was I think about

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Speaker 1: four million viewers. This year, the women's national title game

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Speaker 1: will be on broadcast. The men's national title game will

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Speaker 1: be on cable. That makes a big difference. If Caitlyn

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Speaker 1: gets to the championship game, and plays a big brand

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Speaker 1: name school. I don't know that that necessarily means that

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Speaker 1: the women's game is going to outrate the men's, but

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Speaker 1: I do think that margin is going to be tighter

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Speaker 1: than ever. And I think you're right. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of what we see on the women's side,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing elements that we used to associate with men's

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Speaker 1: college basketball decades ago. What I mean by that is

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Speaker 1: that you've got stars who play four years. Caitlyn Clark

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Speaker 1: could have chosen to come back and play a fifth year.

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Speaker 1: The nucleus of top teams stays together longer, you can

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Speaker 1: build rivalries. If Caitlin Clark plays Angel Reese in this

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Speaker 1: year's tournament, again, there's a carryover effect from Sparis Treament,

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Speaker 1: and that's become really, really rare on the men's side.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that's a little bit And look,

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Speaker 1: we're obviously very invested in men's college basketball too, so

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Speaker 1: we only wanted to do well. But I do think

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Speaker 1: that there are some well established handicaps on the men's

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Speaker 1: side that we don't necessarily see on the women's side,

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Speaker 1: and it helps contribute to that closing of the gap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember about fifteen years ago, I used to

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Speaker 2: get Street and Smith for men's college basketball, and I

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Speaker 2: could guess the starting five All American team. And I

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Speaker 2: remember a few years ago I got some magazine, maybe

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Speaker 2: been seven eight years ago, and the first team All

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Speaker 2: American team had two high schoolers. I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: Seacrest out, this is way over. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: go online when high schoolers or first team All Americans.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I give up. I want to pivot here

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Speaker 2: to baseball and Joe a Otani. So a friend of

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Speaker 2: mine went to a Padre spring training game.

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Speaker 1: Labs.

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Speaker 2: Now that's a pretty star filled roster.

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Speaker 3: He said.

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Speaker 2: He drove into the parking lot. Four minutes later, he's

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Speaker 2: in his seat. He went to a Dodger game the

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Speaker 2: next day, he said, Colin, it took me forty five

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Speaker 2: minutes from the time I pulled into the parking lot

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Speaker 2: to get to my seat. It would have been a

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Speaker 2: twenty to twenty five minute wait in beer lines. So

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Speaker 2: I have suggested that Sho Hee o Tawny. I mean

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Speaker 2: he's almost eachy row with power. You know, each row

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Speaker 2: was more of a singles doubles guy had some home

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Speaker 2: run stick. It was a remarkable player, a fascinating player.

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Speaker 2: But now you're talking to the Dodgers the LA market.

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Speaker 2: This guy is, you know, six ' five Hollywood looks,

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Speaker 2: and he's a power hitter. You know, there's a Paul

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Speaker 2: Bunyan quality. We love our Mark mcguires and our Aaron Judge,

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Speaker 2: Reggie Jackson generationally, we do you know, Johnny Bench, We.

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Speaker 1: Love those guys.

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Speaker 2: I have suggested they're going to average fifty thousand people

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Speaker 2: a year now. They already lead Major League Baseball in

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Speaker 2: a tenants. It's a beautiful stadium, hard to get in

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Speaker 2: and out of, but nonetheless it's a big brand in LA.

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Speaker 2: What what do you think he does for baseball? Dodgers

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Speaker 2: already popular? But it does matter, Michael, as you know,

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Speaker 2: outside of the NFL, and perhaps even in the NFL market,

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Speaker 2: size can matter, stars matter. How do you view Otani?

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Speaker 2: Does he elevate the sport or just the Dodgers?

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Speaker 1: How do you view it? So there are a couple

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Speaker 1: of ways of coming at that. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: really fascinating question. I think one of the realities of baseball,

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Speaker 1: and we can contrast this maybe to the NBA, is

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Speaker 1: that in the NBA stars create brands, and in baseball,

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Speaker 1: brands create stars. Right. Lebron James can come into the

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Speaker 1: NBA and make the Cleveland Cavocleers a brand, and they

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Speaker 1: were one of the top brands in the league for

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Speaker 1: a long time. For whatever combination of reasons, it tends

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Speaker 1: not to work that way in baseball, and sho Hey

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Speaker 1: Otani was never really able to eleve the brand of

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Speaker 1: the Angels, even playing alongside Mike Chobt. He's got an

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Speaker 1: argument is every day layer at right. So now moving

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Speaker 1: to the Dodgers, you're moving into that environment where the

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Speaker 1: brand helps make the stars.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Like in baseball, the brands that matter obviously the Yankees clearly,

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers, the Cubs when they're good, the Cardinals when

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Speaker 1: they're good, they're like, yeah, many maybe Atlanta's in that category.

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Speaker 1: By moving to a brand that matters, the brand will

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Speaker 1: elevate him a little bit, which is obviously great for

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Speaker 1: Shohei Otani. I think it's great for the Dodgers. I

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Speaker 1: think their home games this year will take on a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the feel of what Laker games feel

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Speaker 1: like when the Lakers are good, where it's got that

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Speaker 1: celebrity wattage and just the field that comes with a

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Speaker 1: big event in LA and that's going to be amazing.

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Speaker 1: All that said, you know, the reality is that the

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Speaker 1: baseball postseason, more than any other sport, has a high

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Speaker 1: degree of randomness. And the Dodgers might have one of

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Speaker 1: the best everyday lineups that we've seen in years. They

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Speaker 1: could go out and win one hundred and fifteen games,

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Speaker 1: and still when we get to October, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be holding our breath to see if they can win

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Speaker 1: three out of five and get to the next round,

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Speaker 1: then four out of seven and get to the World Series.

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Speaker 1: You just don't have that confidence that, even when you

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Speaker 1: have a super team, that they're necessarily going to advance.

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Speaker 1: And that's just sort of a byproduct of the construction

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Speaker 1: of the baseball postseason. So I think it's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great for this city, But as a

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Speaker 1: part of the company that's the rights holder to the

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Speaker 1: World Series and has been for a long time, I

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Speaker 1: think we have to sort of moderate our expectations for

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Speaker 1: what Otani can mean, because it's just the nature of

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Speaker 1: baseball that you still have a reasonable chance that no

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Speaker 1: matter how good the big brands are, there's still a

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Speaker 1: path for Arizona and Texas and smaller market teams that

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Speaker 1: win eighty seven games to get to the World Series. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think the quirkiness and the randomness of baseball

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Speaker 2: what really separates it. It's not as predictable. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's funny the Yankees had finally a really down year

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Speaker 2: and people are, you know, driving to the precipice of

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Speaker 2: the cliff. The Yankees are done on like folks, They've

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Speaker 2: had one bad year in like twelve, like slow down.

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Speaker 2: They'll be fine. So I want to talk college football

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Speaker 2: in my space. As you know, I was taught a

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Speaker 2: rule very quickly in sports radio, and I consider my

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Speaker 2: FS one show. It's just sort of a radio TV combo. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's a simulcast play the hits, and so I do

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Speaker 2: about sixty five percent of NFL. It's the hit and

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Speaker 2: during the Alabama and Georgia dominance. And I love college football.

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Speaker 2: I think you know that I scaled back for about

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Speaker 2: eight to ten years. I felt the sport was very regional,

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Speaker 2: and I had said continually, you have to have USC, Texas, Michigan.

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Speaker 2: They have to win two. This past year, although USC

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Speaker 2: wasn't good it felt much broader, and so I increased

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Speaker 2: significantly my college football talk. My guess is I will

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Speaker 2: double it this year based on taking the four biggest

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Speaker 2: brands of the West into the Midwest, Texas, Oklahoma into

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Speaker 2: the best conference or you know, depending on the year

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Speaker 2: and the teams the SEC as a company. It has

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Speaker 2: been suggested to me, because the ratings were up this

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Speaker 2: year in college football, that it could take a precipitous

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Speaker 2: jump this year and really stabilize and confirm it is

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Speaker 2: the second most watched sport in America. So A is

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Speaker 2: it now clearly? And BDU suspect that's where we're going

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Speaker 2: with a convergence of big brands and new conferences.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not only was viewership up last year, you can

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Speaker 1: go a step further. Viewership for college football last year

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Speaker 1: was the highest it's ever been. So this is the

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Speaker 1: most watched season in college football ever.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: They think that there's been sort of but nationalization of

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Speaker 1: interest that will be enhanced by those West Coast teams

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Speaker 1: coming to the Big Ten. I think, just from a

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Speaker 1: television perspective, a lot of what's changed is that we

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Speaker 1: don't do regionalized college football windows anymore, and we haven't

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Speaker 1: for some time. So every game is going to a

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Speaker 1: national audience, and more and more games are coming to

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Speaker 1: broadcast TV. I think Fox has been self serving for

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Speaker 1: me to say this, but I think we've been an

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Speaker 1: important player in that because we've moved our best games

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Speaker 1: to noon, which means you now have great games at noon,

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Speaker 1: great games at three thirty, and great games at primetime,

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Speaker 1: and so it creates a better day of college football

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Speaker 1: and you're seeing more times than with the sport. I

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Speaker 1: actually think right now, and I'm like you, I've went

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Speaker 1: through a period where maybe it was a little bit

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Speaker 1: bearished on college football, really preferred NFL Sundays. I don't

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Speaker 1: think there are any better days in sports now than

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Speaker 1: college football Saturdays, because you have so many games, so

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Speaker 1: much available to watch, so much able to bet on

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Speaker 1: if you're a person who's inclined to take a little

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Speaker 1: action on some of these games. And I think every

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Speaker 1: college football Saturday is now really on par or even

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Speaker 1: better than the Thursday and Friday of the first weekend

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Speaker 1: of March Madness, which you just think of as a

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Speaker 1: feast of all days sports viewing and sports betting. So

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Speaker 1: I think college football is an incredibly healthy place. The

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Speaker 1: expansion in the Big Ten, you know what it means

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Speaker 1: for us, And this is what you were alluding to earlier.

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Speaker 1: Now you've got Ohio State Oregon as a game that's

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Speaker 1: on the schedule next year. USC Michigan is a game

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Speaker 1: that's on the schedule next year. You're going to have

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Speaker 1: these interregional rivalries and huge games that weren't previously possible.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine most of the people listening aren't aware

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Speaker 1: of this. But the way that college football games give

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Speaker 1: a signed across the networks is that we literally go

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Speaker 1: through a draft, right So in the ten draft box

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Speaker 1: has the number one pick, take Ohio State Michigan. The

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Speaker 1: networks take turns drafting, and that's how the games are assigned,

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Speaker 1: which is a little bit different than the NFL. You

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Speaker 1: still do that, Yeah, yeah, it's one of the most

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Speaker 1: interesting ectors. When are you doing that?

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Speaker 3: What day?

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Speaker 1: What we It's a couple of weeks out because now

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Speaker 1: that CBS is a partner with us in the Big Ten,

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Speaker 1: they obviously get very busy around March Madness, so it's

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Speaker 1: going to probably slow the process down a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So we're a few weeks away from starting that college

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Speaker 1: football draft. But there are games on the draft board

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Speaker 1: this year that in the old Big Ten you would

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Speaker 1: have thought this is the second or third best game

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Speaker 1: in the pool, And this year those games may not

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Speaker 1: go till six, seventh, eighth, ninth. I mean, at the

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Speaker 1: depth of quality games, the number of games that I

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Speaker 1: would feel comfortable putting in a Fox noon window, which

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Speaker 1: is our showcase window. There are at least forty, if

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Speaker 1: not fifty games like that. I would imagine that. I

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Speaker 1: would imagine that in the Disney offices. When the ESPN

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Speaker 1: folks look at the SEC schedule now that they've got

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma and Texas coming on board, they probably feel the

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Speaker 1: same way. I mean, the depth of great games in

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Speaker 1: those two conferences is just extraordinary, I think, And look,

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Speaker 1: I understand people have there there's a lot of complexity

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Speaker 1: around NIL and now there's the possible unionization of college athletes,

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Speaker 1: and there are a lot of like important issues playing

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Speaker 1: out in the collegiate space. But I think, just in

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Speaker 1: terms of a television product, college football's never been stronger,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's going to be even stronger this fall.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, the Dallas Cowboys, when they're viable rate very well

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Speaker 2: with the NFL, and there are markets right now that

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Speaker 2: are underachieving Chicago, New York. You just wish the teams

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Speaker 2: were better. I've always argued it's hard to understand how

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Speaker 2: big the influence of the forty nine ers is unless

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Speaker 2: you live out west. If the playing in your stadium,

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Speaker 2: they've got forty percent of the seats. Other than maybe Denver,

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Speaker 2: they're the Yankees of the West coast that they literally

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Speaker 2: fill your stadium. So I've always thought the Niners were

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Speaker 2: undervalued as an NFL market. San Francisco's obviously a big city,

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Speaker 2: and I do wonder about Pittsburgh that was so dominant

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Speaker 2: for years, but it's a small city relative to other

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Speaker 2: big markets. So if I said to you six best

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Speaker 2: if Fox could pick and now these days you guys

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Speaker 2: share AFC NFC, if I said to you, all things considered,

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Speaker 2: market brand quarterback, can you unveil like the top six

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Speaker 2: or seven picks in this league.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting way of framing it, right, because

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Speaker 1: there's a very clear top two and then there's a gap,

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Speaker 1: and it's sort of an open question as to what

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Speaker 1: team might step up and become the third most powerful

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Speaker 1: brand because for years, at least on the NFC side,

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Speaker 1: it was Dallas and Green Bay. Well, on the end side,

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Speaker 1: it's still Dallas. It's probably always going to be Dallas.

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Speaker 1: It could be Green Bay again, but I think right

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Speaker 1: now there's a little bit of a blank space that

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Speaker 1: some team could step into and become that third marquee brand. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: it's been Dallas for a long time now, Kansas City's

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Speaker 1: right alongside them. I think when we talk about our

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Speaker 1: schedule and when we talked to the league about what

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Speaker 1: we would like to have for next season, Dallas and

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Speaker 1: Kansas City very clearly have separated themselves from the rest

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Speaker 1: of the league. And then there are a number of

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Speaker 1: teams that have the potential to become that third marquee team.

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia definitely is one. Philadelphia was a holding penalty away

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Speaker 1: from sending the Super Bowl to overtime two seasons ago.

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Speaker 1: They obviously struggled second half of this season, but that's

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Speaker 1: a big brand. They've got exciting star players. The market

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Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, it's not only is it one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest cities in the country, but it rates extremely well.

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia contributes more viewers to our national viewership than any

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Speaker 1: other city. So if Philly can bounce back from that

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Speaker 1: tough second half that they had last year, they're definitely

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Speaker 1: eligible to become that third big brand. I think you're

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Speaker 1: right about San Francisco. San Francisco's another team was very

380
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Speaker 1: close to winning a championship. Deep and talented on both

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Speaker 1: sides of the ball, fun to watch. They play that

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Speaker 1: kind of positionless offense that I think is very watchable

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Speaker 1: and just fun. So San Francisco is another one. Still

384
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Speaker 1: a lot of built in following for the Packers. They

385
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Speaker 1: looked a lot better in December than they did in September,

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Speaker 1: which is what they to be, so they have the

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Speaker 1: potential to step up. I think Buffalo is a giant.

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Speaker 1: I think what's interesting with Buffalo is that not only

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Speaker 1: is it the quality of the team and the quality

390
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Speaker 1: of Josh Allen, but there's just a culture around that

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Speaker 1: team and the idea of the Bills and Buffalo being

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Speaker 1: a super passionate football city that has been at the

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Speaker 1: doorstep of a championship a couple times and just never

394
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Speaker 1: quite got there. There, They've got a little bit of

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Speaker 1: that Chicagos of the NFL feeling, right where if they

396
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Speaker 1: the big game, that becomes an enormous national story, and

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Speaker 1: you could probably put Detroit in that category.

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Speaker 2: Two that I was thinking, Mike, Yeah they travel well. Boy,

399
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Speaker 2: the Lions travel like crazy this year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I think Detroit. Look, I grew up in Pittsburgh, right,

401
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: so I'm very familiar with that team and that city.

402
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 1: Detroit and Pittsburgh are sort of in similar circumstances where

403
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Speaker 1: they're both industrial Midwestern cities where economic realities forced a

404
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Speaker 1: lot of people to move away.

405
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Speaker 2: Right.

406
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Speaker 1: So you've got a lot of former Pittsburgh's and a

407
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: lot of former Michiganders around the country. And so when

408
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: the Steelers go on the road there's always a lot

409
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Speaker 1: of Steeler fans there because people have relocated. A lot

410
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Speaker 1: of people from Detroit had relocated. I think those teams

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Speaker 1: from the industrial Midwest, we think of them as traveling

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Speaker 1: well because a lot of people used to live there

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Speaker 1: and now they've gone to the Sun Belt and they

414
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Speaker 1: go to the road games.

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Speaker 2: You know, TV rights as a whole. I can remember

416
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Speaker 2: reading articles sports illustrated cover articles. You know, when's it

417
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Speaker 2: going to end? You can't pay this much for TV rights? Well,

418
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Speaker 2: now you've got Amazon, Apple on the doorstep of you know,

419
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Speaker 2: either buying networks or buying rights. So the numbers, you know,

420
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Speaker 2: you need content obviously, the cliche contents king it just

421
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Speaker 2: is fill the bandwidth. That's what they do. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's interesting. I work in cable. Explain this to me.

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00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 2: So Cable obviously has been eroding for several years, for

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Speaker 2: about a decade, talked about for about six seven years,

425
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Speaker 2: but you know, about ten years ago people started. People

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Speaker 2: within the industry didn't talk about it publicly. They try

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Speaker 2: to keep it secret, but it started happening. But yet

428
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Speaker 2: the ability by Fox to team with YouTube create streaming

429
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Speaker 2: eventually here is stemming some of the losses. My show,

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Speaker 2: for instance, we were up twenty five or something percent

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Speaker 2: this year, and cable is eroding, and I'm gonna throw

432
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: something at you. It's theoretical, and Michael just literally take

433
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: a pinata to it if it's crazy. But I've made

434
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: this argument that if TikTok, because of government regulations, was

435
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: regulated to a level that only two things could be

436
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: on it, culinary stuff and pet stuff, and it lost

437
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: seventy percent of its audience. But culinary and pet videos

438
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 2: where all that was allowed or all that flourished, that

439
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: it would be an incredibly dynamic platform for those two

440
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: right industries. Well, television now cable TV is sports and politics,

441
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: Linear TV sports and politics. So people say cable's dying,

442
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, yes it is, but it's overwhelming.

443
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 2: We don't share it with anybody. We share it with

444
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: Trump and Biden for five Otherwise, television's now dominated by

445
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: the industry I grew up in, so that as the

446
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: platform may be dissolving or shrinking or regressing, it's now

447
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: wholly owned by two factors, of which it should be noted, Fox,

448
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 2: between politics and sports, is well suited to flourish. So

449
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 2: when you look at the cable erosion, they've been talking

450
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: about newspaper erosion forever. New York Times is more powerful

451
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: than ever in my opinion. Mean, they bought the Athletic

452
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: which was for four or five hundred million dollars. I

453
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: don't know how to position it or if you can

454
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 2: talk about it too much, But what do you make

455
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: of the cable erosion? But some of those losses appear

456
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 2: to me beings are stemmed by sports gambling, the increased

457
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: dominance of sports by YouTube and relationships. Talk me through

458
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: how you view that.

459
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, That's an incredibly rich topic, right, and that is

460
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: what everybody in our business spends a lot of our

461
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: time thinking about, is how how is that cable business changing?

462
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: What does it mean to our revenue streams, what's going

463
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: to mean to sports rights going forward? I think if

464
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: you want to understand our business, a good place to

465
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: start is to simply understand that for the entire time

466
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: that you and I have been doing what we do,

467
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: sports content has in some way been subsidized by non

468
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: sports fan who pay for cable TV, and so for

469
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: the last forty years, while media has changed incalculably, what

470
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: we've always seen in sports is a rising number of

471
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 1: PATV subscribers, more people paying for content, and so the

472
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: pool of money available to us in sports has just

473
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: grown and grown and grown. Nobody our age or younger,

474
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: has ever really known what it means to be in

475
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: a contracting sports economy. Well, now, because of that what

476
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: you're describing where people are getting out of the cable bundle,

477
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: entertainment viewers are figuring out that they can get the

478
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: content they want from streaming platforms, and so fewer and

479
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 1: fewer non sports fans are paying for sports content. That

480
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: era of subsidization is either coming to an end or

481
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: it's already over, and that pool that we have to

482
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: pay for sports rights is going to contract, and it

483
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: forces all of us to be a little bit more

484
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: disciplined in our deal making and in the way that

485
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: we consider rights opportunities. But what's also interesting there is

486
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: that as that number of people that are subscribing to

487
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: cable TV shrinks and it goes from nearly one hundred

488
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: million to now closer to seventy million, you know, I

489
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: believe that most of the people that are getting out

490
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: of the sports, that are getting out of the PayTV bundle,

491
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: they're not really big sports fans. They're people who are

492
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 1: subscribing to cable for entertainment content. Now they're getting their

493
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: entertainment content from Netflix and from Prime Video, Disney Plus.

494
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: And what that means is that your number of cable

495
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: subscribers is going down, the revenue associated with those subscribers

496
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: is going down. And yet because those people that are

497
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: leaving the bundle aren't sports fans, the people that are

498
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: left behind are spending more of their time on sports

499
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: and on twenty four hour news. And so here we

500
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: are for this year to date, FS one viewership is

501
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: up seven percent, right, may not sound like a lot,

502
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: but when you're in an environment of declining subscribers, to

503
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 1: have any growth is pretty noteworthy. Your show is growing,

504
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: Nick Wright show is growing. We see shows on ESPN

505
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: still growing. If you talk about live events, NFL, college football,

506
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: we talked about women's basketball earlier. NASCAR has been up

507
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. There's a lot out there

508
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: that's growing. And so sort of the paradox of it

509
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: is that the viewership for sports in many many cases

510
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: is going up, and yet because that subscriber base as eroding,

511
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: the revenue associated with sports TV is going down. And

512
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: so there's a little bit of a decoupling between popularity

513
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: and revenue generation. And I think it's very confusing to

514
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: people because you're constantly reading about record ratings for the

515
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, record ratings for college football, and yet we

516
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: and companies like ours don't necessarily have the same The

517
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: revenue streams that we draw on to make these deals

518
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: aren't as powerful as they were even just a couple

519
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: of years ago. So that's a transformational change. It's I

520
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: think it's it's a major adjustment for people who do

521
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: what I do and who have only ever known and

522
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: expanding sports economy, and it's going to affect all of us, right.

523
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: It affects what's available to spend on rights, it affects

524
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: what's available to spend on talent, it affects people like

525
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: me right, like, we all are going to have to

526
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: sort of redemonstrate and re establish our value because we

527
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: can't just rely on the rising tide of growing cable revenue.

528
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: So that's kind of a long explanation, but that's probably

529
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: as best as I can put in.

530
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 2: So if I'm Lachlan Murdoch, what you're telling me is

531
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: I've just got to make really smart choices and in

532
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 2: some instances I have to let some stuff go. So

533
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to do NFL college football. We've always had

534
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: a history of NASCAR World Cup. Love to have the

535
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: World Series, but it probably means we're not going to

536
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: bit on the NBA. I mean, right now, Bang for

537
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 2: the Buck are women's It's basketball is the best value

538
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: in the world of what ratings to you know, what

539
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: we paid for it doesn't that just come down to

540
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: like any business, I don't want to simplify it, but

541
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: I'm a simple guy that you just have to make

542
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: more prudent choices, you've got to let stuff go. I

543
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: mean like baseball is a great example. Like if we're

544
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: losing one hundred and twenty million, we just can't do

545
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: that anymore. We'll just take fewer game. Doesn't it come

546
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: down to just choice. We're not getting out of the

547
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: sports business, but we may just get out of some

548
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: of the sports businesses.

549
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a matter of discipline and priorities, right,

550
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to recognize that our priorities

551
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: are not going to be the same as another company's priority.

552
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: So it's not just that's certainly not to single out

553
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: the NBA or any property, but there are going to

554
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: be things out there that one company will decide isn't

555
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: essential for them, and another company is going to believe

556
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: it absolutely is essential for their planning and for their strategy.

557
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, we certainly we were born to do football, right.

558
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: Sports was created when we got the rights to the

559
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: NFL starting with the nineteen ninety four season, and I

560
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: don't think we've ever really moved off the idea that

561
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: our identity is wrapped up in the game of football,

562
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: and that's very much where we want to be. You know,

563
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: just recently we did an analysis where we found that

564
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: a majority of sports viewing across the entire calendar year

565
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: is now viewing of football. Right, So, across the twelve

566
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: months of the year, I think fifty two percent of

567
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: all sports viewing is NFL college football, and you can

568
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: throw a little bit of spring football in there too.

569
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: I think when we talk about the power of sports

570
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: on television, what we're often really talking about is the

571
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: power of football. Right Football has become sort of a

572
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: stand in for the strength of the sports business in general.

573
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: So from our perspective, we really identify with football. That's

574
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: what we build our brand on, very much aligned with

575
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: the fortunes of the game. What's good for football is

576
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: kind of good for Fox, and that's probably where our

577
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: investments are going to continue to be predominantly. And again

578
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that there aren't other sports that aren't

579
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: incredibly valuable, but I think another company might value them

580
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: differently than we would.

581
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: You know, baseball, hockey, and the NBA are increasingly international,

582
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: global sports, whereas the NFL is wholly domestic, although they

583
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: are pushing to be in Europe, but it's on their terms.

584
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: I've said this about the NBA. I love international players

585
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: because they play against older men when they're younger. They

586
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: come in battle tested, mature. Like when you and I

587
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: travel to Europe, you know, we tend to be more focused.

588
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: We have an itinerary who we stay on it. We

589
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: just don't add live like we do here in the States. Right.

590
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: So the players come over, they bring a family member

591
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: to they sleep, they play basketball, they train their very far.

592
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: They're very mature. I think European kids, you know, they

593
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: smoke a little earlier than ours. They drink with their

594
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: parents when they're fifteen. It's a different lifestyle, of different culture.

595
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: My mom told me a lot about that. As a

596
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: British mother, I wonder about the NBA. I think international

597
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: sports make the sports better, but not necessarily from a

598
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 2: rating standpoint, as viable to the networks, Like I think

599
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 2: the NBA. The ability for Wenby at seven to four

600
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: to come down. He's got handles, he can break a

601
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: guy off the dribble and hit a three chet Hongren.

602
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: It's insane. I mean, these guys were all back to

603
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: the basket guys ten years ago, twelve years ago. Is

604
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: it possible that the globalization of sports, though it could

605
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 2: be good for revenue and shoe sales and the aesthetic.

606
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 2: The quality is not necessarily great for domestic ratings.

607
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: It's an open question, right, and I wouldn't dig in

608
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: too hard or take too firm of a position on it.

609
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: But I think think you are onto something that's pretty

610
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: interesting because I just personally, as a fan and a viewer,

611
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: I think Wemby is incredibly compelling and incredibly entertaining. I

612
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: can't wait to see what he can do for the

613
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: next ten years. But to sort of go back to

614
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: where we started, I think there's a lot of value

615
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: in a kid from Des Moines, Iowa who plays for

616
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: the Iowah haw Guys for four years. Yeah, and we

617
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: just know that brand, and we know that conference. You

618
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: sort of know what it represents. And when she when

619
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark goes to the professional level, she brings the

620
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: benefit of those four years of playing for a really

621
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: well known American university with her. So I wonder about

622
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: that too. You know, we're not that far off from

623
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: an era of basketball that will be post Lebron and

624
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: post Steph and the dominant players, it seems are going

625
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: to largely be players who learned the game and grew

626
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: up outside of the United States, And as I say,

627
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm not taking a position that that's necessarily bad for

628
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: the game, but I think it's an open question. It's

629
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: going to be fascinating to see how accepting broad American

630
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: audiences are to.

631
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,000
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632
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633
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634
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635
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Speaker 2: If I have a couple good rants next week, I

657
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: know you're the president of Insights. Could I be like

658
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: a VP or something? If I'm insightful? Is there a

659
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: way to get into that club? Do you have like

660
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: people under you that are also insightful? What's going on?

661
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: Everybody who works for me is insightful. I just rocked

662
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: write their cotails, right, I just did I say what

663
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: they tell me to say.

664
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: Well, he's one of our favorite people. Michael mulva Hill

665
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: follow them on Twitter, President of Insights and Analytics at Fox.

666
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: This is so much fun, I know, this is the

667
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: world you live in. But I do think there's an

668
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: increasing interest in this. And for instance, when Eric Shanks

669
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: or a Lachlan Murdock or a head of a department

670
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 2: comes to you, are you giving them things that are

671
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: happening now? Are you giving them trends? Are you looking

672
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: around corners two and three years out? Like, what is

673
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: your timetable? If Shanks comes to you and says, hey, listen,

674
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 2: we're negotiating this college football. Because so much of our

675
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 2: business is fluid, how far do you look in advance?

676
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: Well, look, the answer is all the buff right Like,

677
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: we're trying to anticipate what's going to happen in the

678
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: next six months, and we're also trying to anticipate what's

679
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: going to happen on a five ten year horizon. I

680
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: think that media is changing, obviously, it's evolving all the time,

681
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: and it changes so rapidly that there is a limit

682
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: to how far you can even how far out and

683
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: you can even try to look. I think the extent

684
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: of our attempted vision right now is probably the term

685
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: of the NFL contract. Right Like, this is the first

686
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: year of what could be as much as an eleven

687
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: year deal. And I don't know that it's really beneficial

688
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: for us to try to anticipate what's going to happen

689
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: beyond that. But we are trying to think about what

690
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: might happen on a three year horizon, a five year horizon,

691
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: especially as a lot of viewing is moving two streaming

692
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: platforms and maybe more sports rights will be going to

693
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: streaming platforms. So I would say we're typically thinking in

694
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: a window of anywhere from the next three days to

695
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: maybe the next five to seven years, and beyond that.

696
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: Somebody smarter than me can think about what the future

697
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: beyond seven years looks like. And it's hard enough just

698
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: trying to figure out next season.

699
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: In the place of a lack of leadership, college football

700
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: to some degree does feel ruled, not controlled, but certainly

701
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: somewhat correoed graphed by networks. They don't have a president.

702
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 2: It's a seven billion dollars a year business. They have

703
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: no presidents. Why boxing died? I have no problem with that.

704
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: I have no problem with Fox, CBS, NBCESPN saying, guys,

705
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 2: you don't even have a schedule maker, nothing centralized, nothing's unionized. Here.

706
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: We're going to kind of push in the direction I

707
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 2: don't think a fourteen to sixteen team playoff eliminate most

708
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 2: of the bowls make December in the first week of

709
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: January because it's kind of been a dead time in

710
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: college football. You play the Big Ten Championship game, then

711
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: we all sit around and watch the Sun Bowl. I

712
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: got nothing against Elpaso. I've been there three times, but

713
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: it's like this is there's a wide open spot real

714
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: estate here. People are on vacation, you know, people are home,

715
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: like they're just sitting at home for weeks in December

716
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 2: early January. Is it possible looking ahead, this college football

717
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: playoff will not be twelve teams. It could be sixteen,

718
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: multiple buys, twenty four or do you think the framework

719
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: of twelve feels like the future or the near future.

720
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: Look, I think that you can make an argument for sixteen.

721
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 1: I think it would be tough to go any bigger

722
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: than that. And I think even at twelve, it's difficult

723
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: to find a place to land all those games. It's

724
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: difficult because of NFL competition, it's difficult because of the holidays.

725
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: It's difficult because the athletes are student athletes, right These

726
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: kids have to go back to campus and take final exams.

727
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,760
Speaker 1: So I think there are logistical challenges just in landing

728
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: a twelve teen playoff maybe aren't widely appreciated, and they're

729
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: only going to become more difficult as you add more teams.

730
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: But just in terms of you know, viewership, potential, public interest,

731
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: competitive intrigue, for lack of a better word, like the

732
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: idea of going to a sixteen team playoff, I think

733
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: there's certainly enough the interest to support it.

734
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: Sure, Michael, always a pleasure, A good forty to forty

735
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 2: five minutes for our audience. I'm headed out of town

736
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: Chicago for the weekend, which is my favorite American city.

737
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: Now people can see behind you Beverly Hills, the trees,

738
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: all that stuff. I you know, Big ten offices there.

739
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: You like Chicago?

740
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: I love it, Love Chicago, and we love the Big Ten.

741
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: We love our partners there.

742
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: I love it so much. Well, I'll raise a pint

743
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 2: at butch McGuire's for you this week.

744
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, we appreciated making an old style. We love that Chicago.

745
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: I will I will great talking to you.

746
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: Great seeing you. Always enjoy it and thanks for having

747
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: me on. Let's do it again soon the volume.

748
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,

749
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 2: take a moment rate and review