1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Yesterday we celebrated Columbus Day, which represents not the founding 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: of America, of course, that's not where Columbus arrived, not 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: United States of America anyway, but the modernization of civilization 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: in the Western world. The European influence that would lead 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: to a culture in a country that would be the 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: hallmark of things like self governance, equality, the concept of 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: natural rights put into effect. Those changed the world in 8 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: such a manner as to be mind blowing. It can't 9 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: imagine the world without the US in it because the 10 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: influence is so profound. It was important to President Trump 11 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: that we recognize that day, and he has demonstrated an 12 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: understanding of why it is important to celebrate our history, 13 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: celebrate who and what we are, and not to allow 14 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: groups among us to tell us we should be ashamed 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: of our history, should deny that history. You know, when 16 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: in Syria, when Isis was rolling through, they made sure 17 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: to shatter the great Christian artifacts. It's important to them 18 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: to do that. The idea is to destroy history and 19 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: deny history. It's the ultimate authoritarian move. It's a very 20 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: Ray Bradbury concept that if you burn all the books, 21 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: there is no knowledge. You create your own new knowledge, 22 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: the Orwellian notion of creating newspeak, your own language, where 23 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: up means down and down means up, and go means 24 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: stop and stop means go. And before long you control 25 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: the mindset and there is no history to burden you. 26 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Well you know where I stand on the matter. I 27 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: was offered the opportunity to interview a gentleman by the 28 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: name of GiB Kerr, and he's written a book called 29 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: Uncanceled Robert E. Lee. You have my attention, GiB Kerr. 30 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to the program. Oh sorry, I forgot the new 31 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: phone system. Give Welcome to the program, GiB. 32 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: Good boy, Michael, Yes, sir, thanks so much for having me. 33 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: Yes, sir, First of all, tell me why write this book? 34 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: What is your interest in this movement? 35 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: I wrote this book after Robert E. Lee was unfairly 36 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: canceled by the woe mob in twenty twenty twenty one. 37 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: You remember the statues coming down in Charlotteville, En Richmond, 38 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: and uh uh yeah, I don't think that it was. 39 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: This was in response to cancel. Like we're talking about 40 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: there trying to erase history, that kind of take what 41 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: I call the serve pro approach to history, like nothing 42 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 2: ever happened before. We've seen that with the radicals throughout history. 43 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: The French Revolution, they they did away with the calendar 44 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 2: and started with year zero. Is that nothing had ever 45 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: happened before. We saw with the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and 46 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: it really started here in America. I trace it back 47 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: really to Obama when he said he wanted to fundamentally 48 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: transform America. We found out what that meant, you know, 49 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: I meant teaching our kids to to to be ashamed 50 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: of their past and to be ashamed of the founding 51 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: fathers and everything that made America great. And we've been 52 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: through turmoil, I mean to the we went to years 53 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: where people were kneeling for the Natal anthem and on 54 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: and on and on and but you know, like every 55 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: radical movement before it, the American Cultural Revolution I think 56 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: finally went too far. And now it's flaming out and 57 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: we're in the middle of, thankfully, I think a great 58 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: restoration of American values and restoring Roberty Lee, I think 59 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: is an important component of that. 60 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: Roberty Lee's contributions service sacrifice have not been forgotten to 61 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: history by neglect. They've been intentionally obscured and erased. Why 62 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: do you think that is. 63 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: That's a good question. You know, Lee was widely held 64 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: as a hero North and South up until you know, 65 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: recently as twenty or thirty years ago. But I think 66 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: it really I think he traced it back to modern academia. 67 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: You know, higher education has been completely taken over by 68 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: leftist historians like Howard Zen. You've probably heard of Howards Enn, 69 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: a Marxist historian who wrote the book People's History of 70 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: the United States, and Howards n said that history is 71 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: a weapon, as a direct quote from him, and that 72 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: he saw history as a quiet revolution to take over 73 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: the institutions from within. And so now you have historians 74 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: that dominate universities. Almost every PhD in America in history 75 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: is a radical leftist these days, and so that doesn't 76 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: leave very many people to preserve the past and to 77 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: tell the stories. So some of the greatest history books 78 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: right now are being written from outside of academia. Unfortunately, 79 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: that's where we are. 80 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: By necessity, as it turns out. But you don't have 81 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: to tell you. I'm a Shelby Foot fan. I love 82 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: that style of this. These people that just pour themselves 83 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: into studying history and bringing history back to life and 84 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: not just telling the history, but giving you almost an 85 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: experiences as if you were in it. And as a child, 86 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: my oldest son's name is Crockett, and I knew by 87 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: third grade I wanted to have a son one day 88 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: whose name would be Crockett. I was so enamored of 89 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: the heroes of the Alamo, being a lifelong textan in 90 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: and that has affected, you know, many aspects of my 91 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: life and who I want to be, and what values 92 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: I consider to hold, and the idea of sacrifice, because 93 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: that was the ultimate I think it's interesting and you 94 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: make the point that so much of the best history 95 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: is being written outside the university today. I think that 96 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: is a reflection both of the changing of the guard 97 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: or changing of the mindset of faculty and their their 98 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: political views, their their biases. But I also think that 99 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: is a reflection of outside recognizing that this history has 100 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 1: to be kept alive. It is us like the protect 101 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: Philippe folks say, you know, you don't own a protect 102 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: filip You just you just hold on to it and 103 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: preserve it for the next generation. I think there's probably 104 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: that recognition, and I get the sense that that is 105 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: the reason for you to do this, because we can't 106 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: lose our history to history. 107 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: That's right, you know. I always say truth is a 108 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: stubborn thing and it cannot be erased. They've tried, But 109 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: now history is being written by attorneys, commercial real estate 110 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: guys like me, people from outside of academia. 111 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: And hold with me for just a moment. The book 112 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: is uncanceled roberty Lee like lackaberrition. My brother must have 113 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: been about twelve years old or so passes, and was 114 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: learning to play the guitar and the basic chords, and 115 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: of course you sing along to get a sense of it. 116 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: I guess I've never actually learned to play guitar, but 117 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm told and the book that he used to learn 118 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: he would have to sing this song. And so it 119 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: takes me back to a good place to remember our uh. 120 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: In our little house, our rooms were right next to 121 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: each other, and the front doors both came at a 122 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: at a kind of a vortex of a triangle. So 123 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: I would hear him singing, and I would go and 124 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: uh and walk in on him while he was singing 125 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: and give him grief over that. So I don't know 126 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: what what what inspired you to play that gym, but 127 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: it takes me back to a good place. The book 128 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: is Uncanceled Robert E. Lee, an open letter to the 129 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: Trustees of Washington and Lee University. I guess it's not 130 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: technically a book. I guess it's it's a movement that 131 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: has a manifest So as part of it, let me 132 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: ask you. GiB Kerr is our guest. He's written this. 133 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: Have you had any you know, official communication with Washington 134 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: and Lee? What has been there their reactions so far? 135 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: We've had communication kind of through back channels, I would say, 136 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: to various members of the board of trustees, but the 137 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: president essentially won't talk to us. It's kind of hard 138 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 2: to make any progress when the other sideling engage with you. 139 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: So the man who was once the president of the university, 140 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: his successor won't speak to you about uncanceling this great man. 141 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: And that's interesting, right. 142 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Lee's the one who saved the school after the 143 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: Civil War. He spent the last five years of his 144 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: life there. He's buried there on campus, in the chapel 145 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: that he built, and the university renamed the chapel. It's 146 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: no longer Lee Chapel. It's called University Chapel. And they 147 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: took his portrait down along with the portrait of George Washington, 148 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: and they built a wall in front of the statue 149 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: to block the view of Roberty Lee from the chapel, 150 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: so they essentially whitewashed it. And they act as if 151 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: they're ashamed of Lee or embarrassed by any affiliation with him. 152 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: You know, my take is that I've never felt the 153 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: need to apologize for Lee. But I do understand that 154 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: the way that particularly younger generation has been indoctrinated to 155 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: demonize Confederates, and to not just Confederates, but to really 156 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: hate a lot of American heroes, I understand that there's 157 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: a real need to tell Lee's story, and that's why 158 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: I wrote this book. To tell the truth about Lee. 159 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: And what is that truth? What is important for people 160 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: to understand. 161 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: Most people don't realize. The truth is that Lee was 162 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: opposed to slavery. Before the war, he called it a 163 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: moral and political evil, and after the war he said 164 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: that he was rejoiced that slavery had been abolished. The 165 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: truth is that he was opposed to secession. He did 166 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 2: not want Virginia to secede, but he felt like when 167 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: Virginia did seceed that he owed this primary allegiance to 168 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 2: his state, not to the United States. That's that people 169 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: viewed things back then. So he was motivated to fight 170 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 2: to defend Virginia from the invasion of the Union Army, 171 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: which he did magnificently, by the way. And you know, 172 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: the truth is that after the war he was a 173 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: leading voice for reconciliation. He did everything he could to 174 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: bring the country back together after the war, and he 175 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: bore all of his suffering nobly, never complained. He wasn't 176 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 2: a whiner, and he was a noble character. And you know, 177 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: you referenced George Orwell earlier. Arwell said that who controls 178 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: the past controls the future. And America's path is incomplete 179 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: without Roberty Lee. Because he's the greatest example of courage 180 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: and virtue in American history. That's why we need him. 181 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: That's why I wrote this book. 182 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: What was your connection to this what interested you in 183 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: this subject in this movement? 184 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: Well, I first got introduced to Lee in fourth grade 185 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: when I wrote a paper on him. I still have that, 186 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 2: by the way. And then I went to school at 187 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: Washington and Lee and Robert E. Lee was everywhere, And 188 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 2: you know, in the nineteen eighties and his portrait was 189 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: up in every fraternity house, even the grocery store at 190 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: a portrait of Lee and Stonewall Jackson, and people still 191 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: admired him in those days. And so and I was 192 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: in a fraternity to capa Alpha order. Roberty Lee is 193 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: considered the spiritual founder of Kappa Alpha. We were taught 194 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: to emulate General Lee's character as pledges. We didn't always 195 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 2: live up to that standard, but we tried. And you know, 196 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 2: I was fascinated that Robertie Lee was everywhere, and I thought, 197 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: could anybody really be that great? He was treated like 198 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: a saint in the South, and being from Missouri, you know, 199 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: I had that show me factor. I thought, I got 200 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: to find out more about this, and so the more 201 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: I read, the more fascinated I became. That Lee really 202 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: is I think the most remarkable example of character and virtue, 203 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: maybe next to George Washington in our country's history. And 204 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: so that is I think a large reason why cancel 205 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: culture is targeting him to get rid of him, because 206 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: when they eliminate heroes, they're really eliminating the values, the 207 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: belief systems that those heroes stood for. And that's Christianity, 208 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: that's the love of liberty, and you know that's what 209 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: the Panic fathers thought for. 210 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: You know, give me you made a pointed. It got 211 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: my mind spiraling. So I think about historical events that occurred, 212 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: in this case one hundred and sixty years ago, but 213 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: in some cases even more two hundred years ago, and 214 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: I think about a relative consistency in the way in 215 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: which those events and moments and people and personalities were 216 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: perceived all the way or say, one hundred twenty thirty 217 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: years after. And all of that then changes after the 218 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: events and the personalities are long gone. They changed dramatically, 219 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: beginning I think probably sometime in the nineties and then 220 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: at the turn of the century, and within one generation, 221 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: heroes are villains and villains are heroes, and good is bad. 222 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: And it's an amazing thing. We're not talking about how 223 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: Lee was perceived shortly after the Civil War, because he 224 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: was revered. You know, it's interesting, Uh, there's a connection 225 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: with Robert E. Lee in the state of Texas. The 226 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: song and the Eyes of Texas are upon You, which 227 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: every University of Texas Longhorn knows, actually comes from the 228 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: then leader of the University of Texas who had been 229 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: at Washington. Lee under Robert E. Lee, and Robert E. 230 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: Lee would famously say, as you know, you know, conduct 231 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: yourself with chivalry and decency, because the eyes of the 232 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: South are upon you. And he considered that a great admonition. 233 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment, GiB Kerr is our guest. 234 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: The book is Uncanceled, Robert E. 235 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: Lee, Michael Very. 236 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: They're all Duncans. And do you know duncan means yo yo. 237 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: Give Kerr is our guest. You pronounce it kurror carr 238 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: ker okay kat e r R. He is the author 239 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: of Uncanceled, Robert E. 240 00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: Lee. 241 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: GiB. I think it's interesting that there are a number 242 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: of folks with whom I am in communication who are 243 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: interested in preserving American history, even American history that the 244 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: Obama crowd has managed to extinguish and to paint with 245 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: a really, really bad brush. And a number of other 246 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: people who were not raised with this as their perspective 247 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: are afraid to say anything. So they just they just 248 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: back away and say, well, we'll just we won't think 249 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: about it, we won't talk about it because we don't 250 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: want the we don't want the hive to be buzzing 251 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: around us. It's just easier that way, there's a lack 252 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: of courage, But you don't have a lack of courage, 253 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: and yet you're not an individual who is retired, which 254 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: is usually the situation. I find you have a professional 255 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: career to consider as well, and you believe in this, 256 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: and so you're doing it. I respect that. 257 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 2: Tell me about that, well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I 258 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: did write this book at some considerable risk, knowing that 259 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: not everyone is going to agree with my point of view. 260 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: I've worked for a large, publicly traded commercial real estate firm, 261 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: and you know, I could have been fired, and I 262 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: might still be fired. I don't know, But that's a 263 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: risk that I'm willing to take because I feel strongly 264 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: enough about preserving the legacy of Robert E. Lee that 265 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: I think people need to stand up and tell the 266 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: truth about him, and you know, I'll deal with the consequences. 267 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: What has been the reaction that has emboldened you, that 268 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: has delighted you people you've heard from students, teachers, whatever 269 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: that may be. 270 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been very pleasantly. I expected the 271 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 2: worst and there you know, there's been some haters on 272 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: social media. They're always out there, people that leave nasty 273 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 2: Amazon reviews and that sort of thing. But for the 274 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 2: most part, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. It's been 275 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: people saying thank you for standing up for Robert E. 276 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: Lee and for what he stood for. And you know, 277 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: it's kind of taught me a lesson, which is that 278 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 2: the the woke mobsters there are a bunch of cowards. 279 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: They don't like it when you when you stand up 280 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: to them. They're like bullies. And you probably remember when 281 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: you're a kid, the best thing you can ever do 282 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: to a bully is punch them in the nose. Most 283 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: of the time they back down. So this book is 284 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: kind of a uh, you know, in a in a way, 285 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: sort of a proverbial punch in the nose to the left. 286 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: And I hope more books like it follow. 287 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm I'm amazed by the moment. I'm not sure how 288 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: well it's known that Robert E. Lee is summoned to 289 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: the White House to consider leading the Union forces. And 290 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: I think it was winfild Scott was involved. 291 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: And Lee's. 292 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: Leadership and he was just revered. His leadership was legendary. 293 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: And he has this tough decision and he comes home 294 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: and he chooses his state which of course would bring 295 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: ruin upon his reputation, his family, his wealth. And yet 296 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: I never got the sense that he regretted that decision. 297 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: Did he? No, he did not, he said, I think 298 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: after the war he would have done everything the same way. Yes, 299 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 2: he was offered command of the army that Abraham Lincoln 300 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: announced he was going to raise in April eighteen sixty one. 301 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: Seventy five thousand troops. Would have been the largest army 302 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: ever symboled on North America and the North American continent. 303 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: And Lee, you know, he had toiled away in obscurity 304 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: for about thirty years in the US Army, never surpassed 305 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: the rank of colonel, and he was given this opportunity 306 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: to be in charge of the biggest army ever and 307 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: to be the commanding general and his chance for glory 308 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: and fame, and he turned it down because he could 309 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: not take part in an invasion of his home state. 310 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 2: Those were his principles, and so he chose to suffer 311 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: the consequences. They lost their home at Arlington, which is 312 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: now Arlington National Cemetery, lost everything. And you know, it's 313 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: interesting that Lee never owned his own house, and his 314 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 2: whole life he lived in his wife's house at Arlington, 315 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 2: and then after the war he lived in the president's 316 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: house at Washington College. But no, he said that he 317 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: would not have done anything differently. 318 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: Talk about his move to what became Washington and Lee 319 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: his move to be the university president, how that came about, 320 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: how it went. 321 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: You know, the school had been raided by the Union Army. 322 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: It's right next to the Virginia Military Institute, which the 323 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 2: Union Army had essentially destroyed. And so after the war 324 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,719 Speaker 2: they were down to only about forty students, and they 325 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 2: were really teetering on the on the verge of insolvency. 326 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 2: And as a hail Mary, they wrote a letter to 327 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: Robert Eli said, well, you come be president of the school, 328 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: And to their shock and surprise, he said yes, and 329 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: he wrote into town on his famous horse traveler and 330 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: assumed the presidency, and they went from forty students to 331 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 2: over four hundred. Money came flowing in to support to 332 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: rebuild the school from both the north and the south. 333 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 2: By the way, and he really he not only saved 334 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: the school, but he he shaped the character of the 335 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: school by emphasizing the honor code and by his one 336 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 2: the students asked him, what are the rules here in general? 337 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: And he said, we have one rule, and that is 338 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: that every student must conduct himself as a gentleman. And 339 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: so that was the tradition at Washington and Lake that 340 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 2: he established. 341 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that after that war he should 342 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: seemingly be broken, and yet everything I've ever read was 343 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: not that. It was that he was very measured and 344 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: very thoughtful. But as I said at the beginning, which 345 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: has always struck me about him, that there was not 346 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: a sense of regret. He was a proud Virginian. He 347 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: loved Virginia. He did his duty, and I think he 348 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: left it on the field, and he felt that he 349 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: had done what he believed to be the right thing. 350 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: And that says a lot about the man. You have 351 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: not spoken about his deep faith, but that was the man. 352 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: It was family and faith and his state, which at 353 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: the time was like like his nation. 354 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: That's right, and his faith was very important to him. 355 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 2: I mentioned he built the chapel where he's buried, and 356 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: he worshiped there every morning. I encouraged the students to 357 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 2: join him there, read the Bible every night with his family. 358 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: A very deeply religious man, and he also studied the Stoics, 359 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: as did most Americans at that time, studied the ancient 360 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: Greeks and the Romans, and he was particularly fond of 361 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: quoting the Roman emperor, the Stoic Marcus Aurelius, and his 362 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 2: meditation misfortune nobly born is good fortune. And I quote 363 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: that in my book because I think those words sum 364 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: up Roberty Lee perfectly. Misfortune, nobly born is good fortune. 365 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: And so he turned his misfortune into our fortune today, 366 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: which is his legacy. That we still remember him today. 367 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: And that you proudly carry the torch to remember as 368 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: we all should. The book is uncanceled, Roberty Lee. GiB 369 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: Curry is our guest. 370 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: One more thing with him committed, had nothing going on 371 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 2: down there. 372 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: Probably give Curry's our guest. The book is uncanceled, Robert E. Lee. 373 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: An open letter to the Trustees of Washington and Lee University. GiB. 374 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,239 Speaker 1: I was reading through some of the materials I had 375 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: on this, and there was a timeline Will Dudley being 376 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: appointed president of Washington and Lee in twenty seventeen, and 377 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: then in twenty twenty begins this effort to just scrub 378 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: from the university its namesake and his influence on this school, which, 379 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: as you noted, the school was almost abandoned when he 380 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: comes in and makes this a very prestigious university with 381 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: now a great legacy of character and the sort of 382 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: thing and values that we would want kids to have. 383 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: But I was reading about, let's see if I can 384 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: find it here a group called the Generals Redoubt. Tell 385 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: me about that. 386 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's as an alumni organization that I'm a member of, 387 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: I'm on the board of. And the General's re Doubt 388 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: kind of popped up organically among a bunch of the 389 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: alums who were upset about what was going on at 390 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 2: the university. And so the General's for Doubt has been, 391 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: you know, spreading the word, raising raising awareness among alumni. 392 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: We send out a weekly email to about twelve thousand 393 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: alumni and keep them informed about what's going on on campus. 394 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: We've raised a considerable amount of money. We purchased a 395 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 2: property outside of town by the university where we have 396 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: a national headquarters now, so we've planted our flag. We're 397 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 2: not going away, and we're there to preserve the traditions, 398 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: the values, the history of the university, and we're engaging 399 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 2: with students and you know, it's funny. The students love us. 400 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: The students wear are you know, hats and T shirts 401 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: and whatnot. The faculty in the administration that don't really 402 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 2: care for us too much. The faculty, by the way, 403 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 2: voted over is it seventy or eighty percent in favor 404 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 2: of removing Roberty Lee's name from the university, which is unbelievable. 405 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm seeing here seventy eight percent after the president 406 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: appointed a commission to determine such things. You know, it's 407 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: a very it's I have a friend named Davin James 408 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: and he has a song called a Bucco and Spreeway 409 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: and it's about the music in Texas and how Nashville 410 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: has changed. And there's a line he has in there. 411 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: I bet they wouldn't let Waylan on the Rhyman stage today. 412 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: And the idea that you know, the Grand Lobbrary wouldn't 413 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: allow this great country music scener because it is so 414 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: changed to skinny jeans and pop music with a tway. 415 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: But good on you, good on you, GiB for doing this. 416 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: I think I have my own personal respect and lifelong 417 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: study of Roberty Lee, which made this quite interesting to me. 418 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: But on a bigger scale than even that is the 419 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: idea that ideas matter, and that courage and conviction should 420 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: be our driving force, and that cancelation's greatest power is 421 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: the fear of it, because then no one stands up 422 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: for anything. And so I admire you for that, especially 423 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: because you are in the middle of your career rather 424 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: than being someone who has nothing professional per se to lose. 425 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: And I think that's fantastic. I think that means you 426 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: believe in what you're doing because you can talk about 427 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: it during the daylight hours to people who wear suits 428 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: and and and our potential clients and and of course colleagues. 429 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: I think that's incredible that that that is incredibly commendable, 430 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: I must say, And I hope that serves to inspire 431 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: other people as as it should. At the end of 432 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: all of this, what have you come to learn? Are 433 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: you more hopeful than you were in the people of 434 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: this country and and their courage or have you been 435 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: disappointed at how many people said, yeah, Roberty Leave is 436 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: a very important figure, but let's not fight this. 437 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: What what you know? 438 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: What what do we gain from it? 439 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 2: Well? Well, first of all, thank you for those nice words, 440 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: and yes I am optimistic and like I said earlier, 441 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: truth is a stubborn thing and truth always wins out 442 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: in the end. And we see, uh, we see the 443 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: small signs of progress. Roberty Leaf's actually making a comeback. 444 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: You probably saw recently they restored the twenty foot portrait 445 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 2: of Robberty Lee in the library at West Point last month. 446 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: And I know on your show you've talked in the 447 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: past about the Midland Lee High School. There's a high 448 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 2: school in Nandoah County, Virginia, the Stonewall Jackson High School. 449 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: They restored their name, and I'm actually involved in as 450 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: an expert witness in a suit where they're being sued 451 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: by the NAACP to remove the Stonewall Jackson name. But 452 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: that's taught me that we need to stand up to 453 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: these bullies, because that's what these wocome mobsters are. They're 454 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 2: trying to intimidate us in the silence, and we've got 455 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: truth on our side. We just need to stand up 456 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: for the truth and have the courage of our convictions. 457 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: I think the great scourge of this nation is an 458 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: inability to confront difficult aspects of history, and racism being 459 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: one of those. But it's important to remember that this 460 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: does not happen in a vacuum. There are people who 461 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: stand to gain from it personally, professionally, financially, by stoking 462 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: things and encouraging things and stretching things into untruths. And 463 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: it's very hard to have the slings and arrows of ridiculous, absurd, 464 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: hurtful things said about you and what you stand for, 465 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: and yet you have to do it right. There is 466 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: nobility in that, to go back to your Marcus Aurelius quote, 467 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: there is nobility in that. There's a strength in that, 468 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: and it sustains itself. Yeah. I think this is fantastic. GiB. 469 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: I wish we had more time, but keep up the 470 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: good work. You are truly an inspiration. The book is 471 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: called Uncanceled. Robert E. Lee, thank you for taking time 472 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: to speak to us today, Concern. 473 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Michael really appreciate being on a show. 474 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: Don't give up, folks. Don't give up on our people, 475 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: don't give up on our land, don't give up on 476 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: our system. There are good people out there, and they're brave, 477 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: and they're courageous and their self less, and they stand 478 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: up and do what they believe to be the right thing, 479 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: knowing good and well that they will be called the 480 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: worst of names for it, and yet they persist. Wow, 481 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: that is just amazing to me. It really is. I 482 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: used the word when our guest was on. But it's 483 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: an inspiration. Let that be an inspiration to you and 484 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: be an inspiration for the next person behind you.