1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Brucas and bombiles. I love this topic, I think, I mean, 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: maybe all Latinos do. But I love scary stories. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. I love like legends like Lord Go Go. 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 2: I forgot about that at all. I don't know about 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: that one. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I like. 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: I do like legends. I'm not like a scary movie person. 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: Neither of my like gory stuff. Now that freaks me out. Yeah, 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: but I do like like bru cousin like I love. 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: I love folk tales, but specifically Latino folk tales. I 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: feel like they're deeper. 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: They're terrifying. 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: Did your mom, you're gonna go out at me? Go 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: ahead and stay out after men, I might go on, 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: I might get you. And then I was like, and 15 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: I was such a good kid because I'm scared of 16 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 17 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: I remember when we were kids. I must have been 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: like maybe ten years old. We went to one on 19 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: a trip, on a family trip, and we took a 20 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: tour of the cobblestone street and they it wasn't in 21 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: my head. It was at nighttime and they told the 22 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: story of La and I don't. 23 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: I still don't sleep because of her. I still don't. 24 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: My dad swears she she's appeared to him, my dad swears, 25 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: my mom swears, my grandma swear like, oh I saw 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: law you don't know. I was like, oh my god. 27 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: It's fun that this episode's all about embracing the spooky. 28 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: I do too. 29 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 2: I'm very excited and we're going to talk about stories 30 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 2: but also how some of these stories connect to food 31 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: and drink. 32 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Halloween. My name is Eva. 33 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 3: Longoria and I am Myra and welcome to Hungry for History, 34 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 3: a podcast that explores our past and present through food. 35 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some 36 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our. 37 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: Culture, So make yourself at home. When I feel like 38 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: there's so much we know about the Salem Witch Trials, 39 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: but not a lot about Latin America, and I think 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: women had to have been persecuted as which is in 41 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: Latin America and Mexico too, because we're definitely healers and 42 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: healers of the land and that was looked you know, 43 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: that was frowned upon. 44 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 2: And food centric magic features prominently in the Lores of 45 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: Witches in the sixteen hundred, So like the Sale and 46 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: Witch Trials, which you just mentioned. So if the butter 47 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: didn't churn or if the bread had mold, the only 48 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: logical explanation was black magic. 49 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, because the women were responsible for all of this. 50 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: So the women were responsible mostly for food production. So 51 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: if anything went wrong with that or good, yes, they 52 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: could be considered a witch exactly. 53 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: A witch and a threat to social you know, hierarchy. 54 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: We talked about this a little bit during our beer 55 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: episode last season. 56 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: Yes, remind people of that. So it was where the 57 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: witches hat comes from. 58 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the witches had it with women were brewers, 59 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: and they were set up in the markets and they 60 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: would wear a pointy hat so that people could see 61 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 2: that I. 62 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: Could see where the beer was being sold. Yeah, exactly, 63 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: and only women brewed the beer. And so that's why 64 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: they had the pointy hat. And that's where a witch's 65 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: brew came from and a witch's hat. So I always 66 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: thought that that was interesting. But you know, I'm going 67 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: you should come. I'm going to Galicia in my Searching 68 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: for Spain series, and that's another origin country of witches. Really, Yeah, 69 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: Bligedaleic Celtic. Is that why it's called Anisia because of 70 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: the Gaelic influence. Yeah, I had no idea how Celtic influence, 71 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: very Irish influenced. Fascinating. Yeah, And they'd have the biggest 72 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: witch festival in summer Solstice June twenty fifth this year 73 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: and they do this huge bonfires on the beach and 74 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: all these rituals and how cool. My point is it 75 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: must have come from Latin America because of colonization, Like 76 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: the Spanish Inquisition was like established what in the late 77 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: fourteen hundred, yes, for the eighteen hundreds, so between then, 78 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: not only thousands of Muslims and Jews were killed for 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: their religious beliefs, but there must have been like women 80 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: that were associated with sorcery or witchcraft during that time 81 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: that were targets of Spain and the Inquisition. 82 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and the Inquisition actually came to Mexico and it 83 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: was actually instituted in Mexico in fifteen seventy one, in 84 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: Mexico and in Guatemala as well, and it took different 85 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: targets from the Spain. So it was Jews and Muslims 86 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: in Spain, and here it was also witchcraft, sexual activities, 87 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: drug abuse. And this is where the food comes in chocolate. 88 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's right, because in last season's Hungry 89 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: First three, in the Chocolate episode, we talked about chocolate 90 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: being this like plant based food, which the seed of 91 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: the cucaas is dried, it's toasted, then it's like ground 92 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: with spices and and then it changes into something new. 93 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: And the drink, because it was mostly a drink and 94 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: it was pretty bitter. It was reserved for priests and aristocrats, 95 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: and the cacao seeds were used as currency, and chocolate 96 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: was really special. It was also used medicinally, and so 97 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: people thought it was magical and it was sacred. And 98 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: so a common spice used in chocolate by the mines 99 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: was achiote, which turned the drinker's mouth red because achiota 100 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: is that red seeds now like that, yeah, ano, it's 101 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: also called a nato. And it looked like they were 102 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: drinking blood when they would drink this hot chocolate. Yeahpa 103 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: thought it was like bad, bad influence chocolate drinkers. 104 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: Sad influence with the red chocolate, and it was an aphrodisiac. 105 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. So and that's witchcraft right there, exactly. 106 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: Well, this is where we start seeing you know, if 107 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 2: you even if you think about it, it's the myth 108 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: that they're with the chocolate and the all of these 109 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: spices in there, and they're just grinding it so east 110 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: and then it's a liquid, and then it's it's magic. 111 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: It's magic. 112 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: It's basically literally, it's literally magic. 113 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: And women always prepared the chocolate. 114 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: Yes, that is key. Women always prepare the chocolate. By 115 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: the time we get to the seventeenth and eighteenth century, 116 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 2: chocolate was available to everybody. So pre conquest it was 117 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: only reserved for nobility, the aristocracy, and it was had 118 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: all of these spices cut to Post conquest, it was 119 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: available for everybody. 120 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: Every social class, every ethnic group, indigenous, Baniard, African, mixed, 121 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: it was everybody. 122 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 2: And it was still consumed with water, but it was 123 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: available for everybody, still made by hand in a meta day. 124 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 2: But it's dark and grainy, and so it provides this 125 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 2: ideal environment to hide potions in it. 126 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: Oh, you could like poison somebody. 127 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: And this is what a lot of the Inquisition in 128 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: Mexico were targeting women who were making potions. 129 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: Because they thought they were Brujas, the Bruhaus through chocolate specifically, 130 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: and I think that is so fascinating, fascinating. 131 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: So there are a few stories of so called brujas. 132 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: My favorite is the one of Juan de Fuent then 133 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: Cecilia the Ariola. So in most cases women made the chocolate, 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: but in this story, it involves a man on August eighteen, 135 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: sixteen ninety five, Juan de fund that complained to the 136 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: inquisition authorities that his wife bewitched him with sorcery. So 137 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: he was a thirty three year old Mulatto construction worker 138 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: denouncing his Mulata wife, Cecilia, and he charged her by 139 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: casting spells and curses so quote unquote, so that he 140 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: could not be a man on all the occasions that 141 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: he desired to have intercourse with his weight. 142 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: So he was suffering from a rectile dysfunction, and he 143 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: blamed that his wife was using sorcery on him to 144 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: keep his his wee wee limb exactly exactly. 145 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: Of course, that's the only explaination, the only explanation. And 146 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: also he would prepare the chocolate when women would prepare 147 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: the chocolate, so he was accusing her of poisoning him 148 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: and shifting the gender roles because it was unnatural that 149 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: he was preparing the morning chocolate while his wife slept, 150 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: So he was accusing her of everything. Cecilo was interrogated, 151 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: she was convicted by the Inquisition and then she denounced 152 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: dozens of women practicing witchcraft and was sent to Central 153 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: Jail in Mexico City. And according to this really great 154 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: article called Chocolate, Sex and Disorderly Women in the late 155 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: seventeenth and eighteen entry, this happened to my La. Even 156 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: though she went to jail in Mexico City. She says 157 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: that she took a few personal items with her, including chocolate, 158 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: and everything about the case and everything that she did 159 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: that they did. Everything is recorded how from the court 160 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: from the court and it's digitized, and all of the 161 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: documentation was online. That so crazy, it's crazy of her 162 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: and other women. 163 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: So we know. 164 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: Oh, on August eighteenth, sixteen ninety five, he complained to 165 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: his wife. 166 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: There's so many stories, but it's always like it's all 167 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: of these stories are basically men ratting on their wives 168 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: because they don't want to be married anymore. So they're like, oh, 169 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: you're a witch, and then the inquisition would come and 170 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: take them away. 171 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 4: Yes. 172 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: No, that same guy that I just mentioned fun three 173 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: days before married somebody else. Yeah, because her wife was 174 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: out of the way. Of course, he did. But the 175 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: crazy thing to me is the association between chocolate and 176 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: disorderly behavior, Like that's just crazy to me. But it 177 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: also extended to the elite Spanish women as well, and 178 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: so there it wasn't just like the mulatos and the 179 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: indigenous people. There was also it was it an englishman, yeah, 180 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: who wrote about his travels, and he described a public 181 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: confrontation between a bishop and an elite woman who insisted 182 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: on drinking hot chocolate in church, which disrupted mass, and 183 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: they boycotted cathedral services and protested the bishop's prohibition of chocolate. 184 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: And then he became ill during the protests and died 185 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: a week later. He was poisoned. And all these women 186 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: were either killed or certain time in prison because they 187 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: were like, for sure they did it, they did it. 188 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. This one sounds like they did. They 189 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: probably didn't. I don't blame them. 190 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: They wanted to drink our chocolate. Hey, But it's so 191 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: interesting because it was the elite women and they were 192 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: they're the ones whose stories are documented because we don't 193 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: see the mixed race, the indigenous swimmen, the African women. 194 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: They were probably also using chocolate, but we don't have. 195 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: We don't have records of them. 196 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,599 Speaker 1: So the other thing I remember growing up, did you 197 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: ever get the O hole? Yes? Yes? And what is 198 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: with the egg? 199 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: The oh my god, the egg the egg like So. 200 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: To this day, when I get sick, I'm like mom 201 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: and my mom will do Does she do it? Yes? Yes, 202 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: my mom does the egg and she doesn't our father 203 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: and hail Mary and all my body and then I 204 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: sleep it off. And then we cracked the egg in 205 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: the water. And if it's cloudy in the morning, yeah, 206 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: then it was an evil spirit inside of you. And 207 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: if it's clear, then it wasn't illoho. Wasn't somebody who 208 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: gave you the os? So interesting? 209 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: When I was in China, did your. 210 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 4: Mom do No? 211 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: My mom was like, never mind, I don't wigs. 212 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: When I was in high school in Moreedo, during lunch, 213 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: we used to go across to normal rada, know and 214 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: with my friends and we would often go toha. One 215 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: time when we went and one of my friends went 216 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: in and she did the webbo and then they cracked 217 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 2: it and. 218 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: It was black. Another thing I remember when my sister 219 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: and I were riding her riding our bikes and she 220 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: fell off and broke her arm, and I got so scared. 221 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: I had to carry her back to the house, like 222 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: down the block, and I was carrying her because she fainted. 223 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: She passed out. So I get back to my house 224 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh my god, and they just like 225 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,359 Speaker 1: grab her and they take her to the hospital. And 226 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: and I was just at home and I was so scared, 227 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: like I had a susto and my grandma was like, 228 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: give her sugar, give her sugar, and they made me 229 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: take spoonfuls of sugar for the shock. 230 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: Oh wow, and you just kind of yeah, I was 231 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: just there going like whenever she going to die? 232 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: She broke her arm. I thought you were I thought 233 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: she died. Yeah, I mean literally was, because you know, 234 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: they like rushed out of the house and you know, 235 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: is she gonna die? Mom and my grandma. I remember 236 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: her shoving a spoonful of sugar in my mouth and 237 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: I was like, what the hell. But I did read later, 238 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: like recently, like why that it does, like that adrenaline 239 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: of sugar changes your synapses. It has something to do. 240 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: But I thought it was a folkgo and then I 241 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: was like, oh, there's actually science behind that one. I 242 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: can prove it, all right, so because it's Halloween, we 243 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: felt it appropriate to start out by making vombiles. I 244 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: don't even know what a vampido is. Yes, you've never 245 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: had it. It's like a Mexican bloody mary. Okay, then 246 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: I'm in. Yeah, it's amazing. The vampido. It is the 247 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: national cultail of Mexico. Why it's not the margarita, it's 248 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: the vampido is the national drink of medes. It says 249 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: who who created it? 250 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: Well, a man named Oscarednandez. He was a fruit vender 251 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: in Jalisco, in a town called San Luiso. Yet lan 252 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: he's selling from plastic bags with a strong size. 253 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: I still do that, Yeah, sosas with in a plastic maggie. 254 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: But it's red. So it's like your sucking blood, like 255 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: a vampire. So we're going to start making a vampiedo. 256 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: It has tequila, It has tomato juice, freshly squeezed, lime juice, 257 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 2: fresh be squeezed orange juice, and grinity. Basco and grinity. 258 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: So it's basically the tomato juice grenadine and the two 259 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: juices is a sanity bat. So it's the bases, the 260 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: sugity bat. 261 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: Oh is it so? 262 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: We're just gonna and make our vampiros because we have 263 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 2: to drink vampios. 264 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: If we're talking about of course. 265 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: In folklore in various countries over the centuries, so not 266 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: just in Mexico, but Persians, Babylonians, the Greeks, the Romans, 267 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: the Mayans all had their own tails of thirsty beings 268 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: with the taste for thick, warm blood. So some of 269 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: these vampire like creatures in Latin America, there are a 270 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: few of them. One of them is called Gamasots camas Gamasots. Well, 271 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: he's sort of the most vampire like creature conjured up 272 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: by the Mayans. 273 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: It's a half fat, half human. 274 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: With a blood thirsty temper, and he's known for tear 275 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: the heads off of other gods and ferociously draining the 276 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: blood from its victims. And in the Mayans Sacred Book, 277 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: he is a bat like figure that acts as the 278 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: guardian of the underworld and kills victims by decapitation. 279 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: For real or for fake is the question? Scary stories 280 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: are so scary? It comes from the Mayan, it comes 281 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: from the mine. 282 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: Well, the imagery of the Kamasots is actually based on 283 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 2: a little vampire bats that are native to southern and 284 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: Central America, and these vampire bats have large fangs that 285 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: don't feed on insects or fruit like most bats feed 286 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 2: on fruit. They only feed on blood, and so they 287 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: use their fangs to slice into the skin of an 288 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: animal and they lick the blood as it oozes out. 289 00:15:54,520 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: Okay, you know what that sounds like. That sounds like 290 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: sweet potato. 291 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: It's not, sir, it's not. 292 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: Let's see. 293 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: Okay, Halloween, Happy Halloween. 294 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: That's delicious. That's good. So that was from the Mayans, 295 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: that is from the mind. But the Aztecs have something similar, right, have. 296 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 2: Something similar and scary. So among the Aztects, a woman 297 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: in labor was said to capture the spirit of her 298 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: newborn child, much like a warrior captures his opponent in battle. 299 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: But if a woman died while giving birth, her own 300 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: soul was transformed into a terrifying demon known as a sea. 301 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: So she's kind of ala, kind of a Laurdana. 302 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: Actually, some people say that the legend of the of 303 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: the Yourana is based on a sea oh to have 304 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: descended to Earth on five days during the Aztec calendar, 305 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: and during these times they haunted crossroads in the hopes 306 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: of snatching young children, the young children that they were 307 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: never privileged to meet. So in order to keep their 308 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: children safe, people would create shrines full of food at 309 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 2: crossroads and the hope that these demons would be too 310 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 2: busy eating to notice the sun because the seattle helped 311 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 2: guide the sun. So she had a favorite food, uh huh, 312 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: cakes in the shape of a butterfly. Okay, little tamales 313 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: and toasted corn, so she. 314 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: Would be too busy eating now, and then the sun 315 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: would come up and she would ye. Basically basically, well, 316 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: when we come back, we're still telling scary stories. 317 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 2: Our spooky episode continues with a special guest, a fellow 318 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: Texan and host of the podcast Whole This is a 319 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: great title, I'd wait for history. 320 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: He sat down with Aiden Castillano's host of Still, a 321 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: podcast based on South Texas, lay in Banks and Spooky. 322 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: Stories, Enjoy This Halloween Inspire to interview Aiden. I'm so 323 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 2: excited to meet you. Hi. 324 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 4: Likewise, both Eva. 325 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 2: And I are from South Texas and you're from South Texas. 326 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: I came across your podcast and I was like, oh 327 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 2: my god, I've been listening to it every morning when 328 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 2: I walk my dog. I introduced your podcast to Eva 329 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: and so it's just very, very exciting. How did you 330 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: get interested in spooky stories? 331 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 4: Susto itself for people who don't know, but I feel 332 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 4: like if they're listening to Hunger for History, they shouldn't know, right. 333 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 4: Is it's a cultural illness where after a big scare 334 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 4: or something traumatic, the soul separates itself from the body, 335 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 4: and if it's a severe enough scare or trauma, the 336 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 4: soul can even fragment, and there's different remedies for it 337 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 4: based on who you're talking to. For me, growing up, 338 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 4: it was sugar, a spoonful of sugar in a glass 339 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 4: of water, and if we had susto, we had to 340 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 4: mix it up and then chug that. Growing up, you know, 341 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 4: I'm also from South Texas like both of you, and 342 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 4: I just heard all of these stories growing up. They 343 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 4: were always being told to us, whether it was at 344 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 4: you know, family barbecues late at night when people were 345 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 4: starting to leave and it was dark and okay, it 346 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 4: suddenly it turned into okay, who saw the devil last? 347 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 4: And so I just kept hearing these stories growing up, 348 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 4: and even in the schools. There's a book that I 349 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 4: think a lot of us in South Texas know of 350 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 4: it's the stories that must not die. And this book 351 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 4: had all these stories. It had stories of Lichusa's Layoora, 352 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 4: the girl who danced with the Devil, all of these 353 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 4: spooky stories that were collected in South Texas and they 354 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 4: were reading them to us in elementary But it wasn't 355 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 4: purely to scare the life out of us. They were 356 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: teaching us reading comprehension because these stories were in English 357 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 4: and Spanish. 358 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 2: So what is the story. I don't know the story 359 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: of a girl that danced with the devil? 360 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 4: In nineteen eighty nine, I believe it was in McAllen, Texas. 361 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 4: There was a young woman who was from a very 362 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 4: pious family. They're very religious, and she was kind of 363 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 4: sheltered and she was never allowed to go out, definitely 364 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 4: not alone, but especially to I guess places of ill repute, 365 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 4: we'll say. And she decided one night to sneak out 366 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 4: with her friends and to go to a dance, to 367 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 4: go to Bocachio two thousand and she was out and 368 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 4: from one moment to the next, this stranger appeared out 369 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 4: of nowhere and approached her, and she was completely taken 370 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 4: by him. He was handsome, nobody in her group knew 371 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 4: who he was. He was very suave and mysterious, and 372 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 4: he approached her and he asked her to dance, and 373 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 4: she said yes. So they're dancing and dancing, and you know, 374 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: she's having a great time. She says, this is what 375 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 4: my family kept me from. I'm having a good time. 376 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 4: I'm not doing anything bad. I'm just dancing right. And 377 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 4: before she realizes it, she can start to hear the 378 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 4: crowd freaking out. People are screaming, they're terrified, and so 379 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 4: she's looking around and she noticed, say, is that they're 380 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 4: all looking at her. They're all pointing at her partner, 381 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 4: her dance partner. She looks closely and she sees that 382 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,239 Speaker 4: they're screaming and they're pointing at his feet. Look at 383 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 4: his feet, Look at his feet. And she looks down 384 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 4: and she sees that he has one goat's tough and 385 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 4: one chickens talan. She'd been dancing with the devil. 386 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 387 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 4: So in a cloud of smoke, he disappears. All that's 388 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 4: left on her burn marks from where he held her, 389 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 4: and the smarrill sulfur, and nobody saw him leaves. 390 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 2: Are there any folk tales specific, Are there any foods 391 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: that you see in these stories? 392 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 4: Not really a story, but a piece of advice that 393 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 4: I heard growing up from one of my uncles. He 394 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 4: lives on a ranch land, and he said that he 395 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 4: would get visited by the tusas sometimes as owls or 396 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 4: in their human forms, and that he would offer he 397 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 4: would offer them chilas if they showed up. Was an owl, 398 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: and he thought this owl might be able to choicell er, 399 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 4: I don't know, if he wanted to test it out. 400 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 4: He would offer them chilas, the chili pickings from the bush, 401 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 4: and that he would throw it out so the owl 402 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 4: would eat it, and that if the owl ate it 403 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 4: and it did not react, then it was simply just 404 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 4: an owl. It was just a bird. But if it 405 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 4: did react, if it had a reaction to the spiciness 406 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 4: of the chila, then it was actually a human. It 407 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 4: was a brucha. And I never understood that white he 408 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 4: told me this. I was like, what is the reason 409 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 4: for that white chilas? And then I learned a few 410 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 4: years ago that birds don't react to capsaicin, which is 411 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 4: the enzymer or the chemical or whatever that makes chila 412 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 4: spicy to humans and so I don't know if my 413 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 4: uncle knew this or maybe he did, but yeah, that's 414 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 4: why people will put chilas in their bird seed so 415 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 4: that the squirrels won't get to it, because birds aren't 416 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 4: affected by that chemical. And so that was his way 417 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 4: of testing out is this really just an owl litusa 418 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 4: or is it ausa? So everybody key some chila's in 419 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 4: your pockets just in case you come across a litusa 420 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 4: that might. 421 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: Be a brou so interesting. 422 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 4: You can listen to Sustal anywhere podcasts are available. You 423 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 4: can also visit sustalpodcast dot com and if you would 424 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 4: like to follow me online, my handle is at sustal 425 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 4: podcast across every single platform. 426 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: And so is s u s t Oh. 427 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 428 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: Aiden. Well, I could talk about scary stories beforeever, but 429 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: I will. We will end it here and I encourage 430 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: you to have a lot of Mexican candy this Halloween, 431 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: and if you can't find it, there's some great recipes 432 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: on how to make some some spooky Mexican candy. So 433 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be doing that. Likes yeah, like with an eyeball. Oh, 434 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: I love those yeah, yeah, scary molds and brains, brains 435 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: and things like that about that stuff. It's gonna be fun. 436 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: Happy Halloween, everybody, Thanks for listening. Be safe out there. 437 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: Happy Halloween. Hungry for History is a Hyphenite media production 438 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 1: in partnership with Iheart's Michael Fura podcast network. 439 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 440 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.