Speaker 1: Ruby.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong about applying for benefits. You pay into
Speaker 2: them during your employment. You need to get them if
Speaker 2: you need them. That's what it's there for. A lot
Speaker 2: of people need to just like set their pride aside
Speaker 2: and get your unemployment benefits if you're eligible.
Speaker 3: So let's say your boss schedules a mysterious quick check
Speaker 3: in for four point thirty on a Friday.
Speaker 4: Immediate stomach drop. No, nobody has ever heard quick check
Speaker 4: in and thought, oh good, probably a surprise raise I
Speaker 4: was hoping for, Not even once.
Speaker 3: It usually means a layoff, and right now layoffs are
Speaker 3: hitting a lot of industries, so the chances are someone
Speaker 3: you know who's gone through it recently raises hand.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And sometimes it's not even a quick check in with
Speaker 4: your manager you find out via email. Quite rude, rude,
Speaker 4: very rude. Which is why today we're talking about what
Speaker 4: to actually do if you get laid off, like the
Speaker 4: practical stuff that nobody explains in the moment because your
Speaker 4: brain is too swirly to think straight.
Speaker 3: You're thinking severance unemployment health insurance LinkedIn updates, whether or
Speaker 3: not you should panic pivot to a new career.
Speaker 4: Maybe, and how to handle the emotional side without immediately
Speaker 4: spiraling into well, I guess it's seventy cent ramen for
Speaker 4: me from now on.
Speaker 3: And honestly, getting laid off can feel deeply personal, even
Speaker 3: when it's through no fault of your own.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to grown Up Stuff, the podcast where we
Speaker 4: figure out all the things you feel like you should
Speaker 4: know by now but maybe don't because I know I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm Leah Palmery.
Speaker 1: And I'm Matt Stillow.
Speaker 3: So Today the grown up Guide to layoffs, What to
Speaker 3: do first, what not to do, and how to make
Speaker 3: a plan when your life suddenly gets very weird. Our
Speaker 3: guest today is Page Sparks from Sparks Legal, an employment
Speaker 3: lawyer who litigates cases for employees.
Speaker 4: But first, a quick disclaimer before we get started.
Speaker 2: I just want to say these are all just my thoughts,
Speaker 2: and these are general questions we're answering. If you do
Speaker 2: you have specific legal situation that you want legal advice on,
Speaker 2: definitely check with the lawyer in your state.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Speaker 1: I could have set it better myself. Well so.
Speaker 3: The Bureau of Labor Statistics says somewhere between fourteen and
Speaker 3: twenty million people in the US get laid off or
Speaker 3: let go every single year. And that number isn't just
Speaker 3: the massive corporate layoffs you see in the headlines. It
Speaker 3: includes everything from seasonal jobs ending, to companies downsizing, to
Speaker 3: individual employees getting fired.
Speaker 1: Basically, this is way.
Speaker 3: More common than most of us realize until, of course
Speaker 3: it happens to us.
Speaker 4: Once you are laid off from a job, your head
Speaker 4: is very swirly and there's a lot going on, and
Speaker 4: you just have to put one foot in front.
Speaker 1: Of the other.
Speaker 4: So what should you absolutely not do in the first
Speaker 4: forty eight hours after being laid off? And that's both
Speaker 4: financially and emotionally great question.
Speaker 2: So the first thing you should not do if you
Speaker 2: get noticed that you're being laid off is do not panic.
Speaker 2: This is not a scarlet letter on you. This is
Speaker 2: actually quite common and the worst thing you can do
Speaker 2: to yourself is panic and spiral from there. Instead, a
Speaker 2: process you can start in is like review the paperwork.
Speaker 5: They gave you.
Speaker 2: Did they give you Cobra paperwork? Are you going to
Speaker 2: opt into that? There's no need to panic. I know
Speaker 2: it's easier said than done when you are in that situation,
Speaker 2: but it's really a common thing and it can be
Speaker 2: a lot less scarier than people think.
Speaker 4: Okay, COBRA paperwork. So that has to do with health
Speaker 4: insurance coverage, right, Can you explain that a little bit
Speaker 4: more so.
Speaker 2: Cobra is basically, if you get notified to your employments
Speaker 2: ending what do they call it a qualifying event. So
Speaker 2: if the certain events happen, they have to give you
Speaker 2: COBRA notice and so using layoff as the example, they
Speaker 2: have to give you the COBRA notice within a certain
Speaker 2: amount of time. And it's basically a higher premium you're
Speaker 2: paying to get your health insurance continued out. It can
Speaker 2: be up to eighteen months. I've seen it a little
Speaker 2: bit less. It's going to be depending on what you
Speaker 2: agree to. You have to opt into it. But in
Speaker 2: order to opt in, it's the employer's burden. It's their obligation.
Speaker 2: They have to provide you all the information and the
Speaker 2: COBRA paperwork on what to do, the timelines, the deadlines,
Speaker 2: and when to opt in, and like the actual dollar amounts. Now,
Speaker 2: a lot of these mom and pop places aren't doing
Speaker 2: this lately. Yeah, and so there can be penalties. By
Speaker 2: the day they could have like one hundred dollars fine
Speaker 2: per day if this is an issue, and reimbursement for
Speaker 2: costs if you have a lapse in coverage and you're
Speaker 2: required to pay something out of pocket or you have bills.
Speaker 4: Are there deadlines that people should be aware of when
Speaker 4: it comes to continuing benefits.
Speaker 2: So if you want to continue your benefits through Cobra,
Speaker 2: you do have usually sixty days to opt in through
Speaker 2: that paperwork if you want to extend the benefits. Now,
Speaker 2: sometimes we see the employer doesn't provide the paper work
Speaker 2: in time, so you can continue it from the date
Speaker 2: you're finally giving it.
Speaker 3: I didn't even know what it was, so like, I
Speaker 3: just think it's an important thing for people that know
Speaker 3: that if you do get laid off, there is a
Speaker 3: path to continue your healthcare, not only for you but
Speaker 3: for your family. It's a little bit of a difficult
Speaker 3: process to navigate, but it is there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no wonder why it's named after a snake because
Speaker 4: it's very slippery.
Speaker 5: True and very scary.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yes, but actually they should be more afraid
Speaker 2: of you with the Cobra if they mess up to Obra.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that is a good name for it.
Speaker 2: It's a scary situation and it's expensive, so you don't
Speaker 2: have to do the COBRA. You could look at marketplace
Speaker 2: options or other options because it is expensive, but it's
Speaker 2: better for some individuals to do that instead of not
Speaker 2: having coverage and then you have all these medical debt
Speaker 2: out of pocket.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you may need to change your provider depending
Speaker 3: on what's available in the marketplace or what you can afford,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, to be able to stick with the.
Speaker 1: Same insurance can be super helpful.
Speaker 3: So that said, I think a lot of people feel
Speaker 3: like they don't have any sort of rights. So what
Speaker 3: is important for people to know? What rights do they
Speaker 3: have when they're laid off.
Speaker 2: One of the rights you have if your employer's eligible
Speaker 2: is getting COBRA for an example. Your rights don't just
Speaker 2: disappear when you're laid off. Still have employment rights as
Speaker 2: an employee. You just have maybe what we would view
Speaker 2: as less compared to the employer. Especially most states are
Speaker 2: at will employment. That means you can be fired or
Speaker 2: laid off anytime for any reason, as long as it's
Speaker 2: not an illegal reason. An example we want to look
Speaker 2: out for is when we're looking at even mass layoffs,
Speaker 2: is that they're not selecting everyone with FMLA, and so
Speaker 2: your rights don't disappear just because you get noticed you're
Speaker 2: getting laid off. It's just there is a process you
Speaker 2: have to follow. But if you have engaged in any
Speaker 2: protected activity like reporting discrimination, retaliation, filing a whistleblower complaint,
Speaker 2: or a worker's compensation claim for example, and then you're
Speaker 2: laid off, then we may want to look at it
Speaker 2: a little further because we want to make sure you're
Speaker 2: not waiving any of those rights if you sign to
Speaker 2: accept the severance, for example.
Speaker 3: So let's take a quick second to define FMLA. That
Speaker 3: stands for the Family and Medical Leave Act, and basically
Speaker 3: it's a law that says if you're dealing with a
Speaker 3: serious health issue or caring for a close family member
Speaker 3: who is you may be entitled to take on paid
Speaker 3: job protected leave without losing your position. It can also
Speaker 3: apply after having a baby or adopting a child. Now
Speaker 3: there are rules around who qualifies and how big the
Speaker 3: company has to be, but the main idea is your
Speaker 3: employer can't just write you off because you need time
Speaker 3: away for legitimate medical or family reasons.
Speaker 4: How does a layoff differ legally from being fired for cause?
Speaker 4: And what are the implications because they both feel bad,
Speaker 4: But like, what is actually the difference between those two categories.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's never fun to end your employment no matter
Speaker 2: what happens, like it's always going to be a transitional
Speaker 2: period and it's always the unknown as scary. But it
Speaker 2: is better to be laid off than fired for cause.
Speaker 2: If you're fired for cause, you usually cannot get benefits
Speaker 2: like unemployment benefits. If you're laid off due to no
Speaker 2: fault of your own, you can apply for that and
Speaker 2: as long as there's no issue, you probably receive it.
Speaker 2: So I do think it is better, especially in a resume.
Speaker 5: A lot of.
Speaker 2: Employers are way more understanding of a company layoff maybe
Speaker 2: gap in a resume instead of you explaining why you
Speaker 2: got fired for popping off or policy violation or attendance
Speaker 2: or something. I do think a lot of employers view
Speaker 2: it a little more favorably than if you were terminated
Speaker 2: for cause.
Speaker 4: Popping off is the legal HR term that they use
Speaker 4: when they have to fire somebody to let's just be
Speaker 4: clear on that, right. I have popped off myself, so
Speaker 4: I tell you it's not fun. There's consequences sometimes, you know,
Speaker 4: but it's more common than a lot of people think
Speaker 4: there's nothing to be ashamed of if you're laid off.
Speaker 2: It's very normal. But I think that's why people view
Speaker 2: it differently. As far as from the employer end of it,
Speaker 2: it's a little more understandable. You had nothing to do
Speaker 2: with it, You couldn't help it, right.
Speaker 3: I wonder also, like within those two things, because it
Speaker 3: does seem like you could get into like a he said,
Speaker 3: she said thing where an employer is saying they fired
Speaker 3: you for cause, but maybe there was underlying circumstances that
Speaker 3: aren't coming to light. Is there like a way to
Speaker 3: like fight that process if one person says one thing
Speaker 3: versus another.
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: So. I'll use unemployment benefits for an example. So if
Speaker 2: you apply, which I would immediately do that, if you
Speaker 2: get noticed that you're about to be laid off, I
Speaker 2: would immediately apply for unemployment benefits because that can take
Speaker 2: a while, the process can be slow, it will vary
Speaker 2: on how your state is processing things. But in response
Speaker 2: to that, once you get that process started, the employer
Speaker 2: will get the opportunity to respond and say if you
Speaker 2: were fired for cause, now when you fill out the paperwork,
Speaker 2: I would be as specific as possible with the timeline
Speaker 2: and attach the layoff documents like the notification. If you're
Speaker 2: able to do that that way, you're kind of starting
Speaker 2: setting the scene of I was not fired for cause,
Speaker 2: I was notified on this date, I'm being terminated, I'm
Speaker 2: eligible for benefits if they can test it.
Speaker 5: They have to be able to back up what they say.
Speaker 2: They can't just say no, you shouldn't get benefits because
Speaker 2: you're fired for cause.
Speaker 5: Period. They have to provide reasons why. Now.
Speaker 2: I think that a lot of employers will probably have
Speaker 2: a process and step in place that is going to
Speaker 2: flag any unemployment claims from a layoff that they already
Speaker 2: knew was coming. But for example, like with my employment cases,
Speaker 2: that happens all the time where we say he was
Speaker 2: fired because you wouldnt accommodate him, and they say, no,
Speaker 2: he got too many attendance points. Well, the employer responds,
Speaker 2: and then you can do what's called a rebuttal. You
Speaker 2: have a window of time to do that, so make
Speaker 2: sure you don't miss it. You get noticed in the mail,
Speaker 2: send your appeal window, and then the next step would
Speaker 2: be a hearing.
Speaker 3: Because I can understand, like I'm sure most corporations it's
Speaker 3: a pretty standard practice and there's all this documentation and stuff,
Speaker 3: but I'm thinking like for smaller companies where there's only
Speaker 3: a few employees that could maybe not have as much documentation,
Speaker 3: and then there's more personal relationships kind of come into
Speaker 3: the fray and so interesting.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we see that a lot. Not to segue
Speaker 2: into too much personal stuff, but I love when a
Speaker 2: company sends a non lawyer in that situation to represent
Speaker 2: the company, because I'm like, Okay, I get to be
Speaker 2: psycho for an hour, and my therapist that I can
Speaker 2: because it's for work, so buckle up.
Speaker 5: But yeah, some.
Speaker 2: Definitely do or they'll send their poor HR person who
Speaker 2: knows that stuff probably better than I do, but they
Speaker 2: don't know how to do the questions in the lawn,
Speaker 2: like what the burden and the statute is, So anyone
Speaker 2: who's diying and unemployment appeal again, this is just informational
Speaker 2: only if it's a phone hearing, ride it all down,
Speaker 2: look up the statute. That way you know what your
Speaker 2: requirements are to prove. So if you're strying to say
Speaker 2: you get unemployment benefits and they say you're fired for cause,
Speaker 2: google that write it all in a word document including
Speaker 2: everything you want to say. That way, when you're panicking
Speaker 2: on the phone, you can just read it and you
Speaker 2: already did all your homework. But that's an example of
Speaker 2: you have the same resources going into it as the
Speaker 2: HR person showing up for the company. But yeah, sometimes
Speaker 2: the smaller companies they just have to make do with
Speaker 2: what they have if they even show up. A lot
Speaker 2: of the times they don't even show up to the
Speaker 2: appeal hearing.
Speaker 4: I'm always here for a time for page to pop
Speaker 4: off legally, so semi crazy, yes, exactly. One other element
Speaker 4: I want to talk about too is severance. So a
Speaker 4: lot of times if you are laid off, you will
Speaker 4: get some severance hopefully. Is severance pay required or is
Speaker 4: it just like a oh, look, how nice we are.
Speaker 4: We're giving you some money because we're changing your whole
Speaker 4: entire life right now. How much is a company required
Speaker 4: to actually provide that versus is it just a nice to.
Speaker 2: Have more of the second? Unless you have a contract
Speaker 2: saying that you're entitled to employment during a certain time
Speaker 2: period or some other kind of contractual obligation, or maybe
Speaker 2: a state law. I know some states are kind of
Speaker 2: the Wild West, like California, and Washington State may do
Speaker 2: this a little differently, but normally you are not entitled
Speaker 2: to receive a severance of employment ends unless you have
Speaker 2: a contract stating otherwise. Now, if you're offered severance, that's
Speaker 2: always great, like you said, a nice thing to have,
Speaker 2: and usually it's like one pay period, sometimes less, sometimes
Speaker 2: a little more. I would say that's pretty average. Now,
Speaker 2: the only way we can really negotiate the severance is
Speaker 2: if we have claims to leverage with it. So like
Speaker 2: those examples I was saying earlier, if you reported sexual
Speaker 2: harassment and then you could notice you're being laid off
Speaker 2: two days later, obviously we're gonna want to leverage that
Speaker 2: because that can add more value to the claim. Because
Speaker 2: you engage in protected activity, now we can allege retaliation.
Speaker 2: But your average person usually that hasn't happened. This usually
Speaker 2: comes out of nowhere, and unfortunately, you usually do not
Speaker 2: have a right to severance. There's some like myths going
Speaker 2: around online that's like you get X amount of months
Speaker 2: for every year you've been working. There's no such thing.
Speaker 2: That'd be nice if they all followed it. There's no
Speaker 2: like federal guideline or regulation requiring that though unfortunately, is.
Speaker 4: There something that you should look for or negotiate within
Speaker 4: a severance.
Speaker 2: Package before you sign a severance obviously read it very carefully,
Speaker 2: know what you're agreeing to. I would not sign a
Speaker 2: severance agreement that didn't have mutual protection. So what you
Speaker 2: want to look for is that if it's this confidentiality
Speaker 2: in there, both parties should have equal duty and burden
Speaker 2: under that. It shouldn't just be one sided. Now the
Speaker 2: company's writing it, so they will always want to write
Speaker 2: it in their favor. It may say like non disparagement,
Speaker 2: but no one there is being limited from disparaging you
Speaker 2: or things like that. So if you want to suggest
Speaker 2: changes like that, you can always respond. You don't have
Speaker 2: to sign it as is. Just know that usually under
Speaker 2: contract law, making changes like that is considered a counter offer,
Speaker 2: So they could revoke the severance altogether. I think that'd
Speaker 2: be kind of unusual if we're dealing with like a
Speaker 2: mass scale layoff, because they just want to button everything
Speaker 2: up and move on.
Speaker 5: But it's possible.
Speaker 2: So if I was someone who wanted to change us
Speaker 2: to an agreement, what's the saying. It's like hungry mouse,
Speaker 2: don't get fed unless you ask or something like that.
Speaker 1: I would ask, Squeaky Wheel, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Squeaky Wheel gets the oil.
Speaker 2: Yes, And so I would always ask, and probably the
Speaker 2: worst case scenario is they're like, no, you can sign
Speaker 2: it as is, though you have until Friday or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's what I would do if it had any questionable terms.
Speaker 2: I'd also look at the governing law of the severance agreement.
Speaker 2: So usually any contract, if it's written by not AI
Speaker 2: and like a real lawyer or person, it's going to
Speaker 2: have a governing law. It'll be like, for example, here,
Speaker 2: it'd be like this severance agreement is governed by the
Speaker 2: state law of Missouri or something like that, and so
Speaker 2: we want to make sure that if you're signing that,
Speaker 2: I would only want to sign that if it was
Speaker 2: in the state I was in keep an eye out
Speaker 2: for that, because when we're looking at these bigger companies,
Speaker 2: if you're working in Missouri and you sign a contract
Speaker 2: governed by the laws of California, if you ever want
Speaker 2: to enforce that contract or the company wants to enforce
Speaker 2: that contract ensue you, it's going to be in California.
Speaker 2: So it's just like one of the things I would
Speaker 2: look at. I'd also keep an eye out for arbitration.
Speaker 2: Agree men's being hidden in there. I've been seeing that
Speaker 2: a lot in the severance that if you do bring
Speaker 2: an enforcement action, they're trying to force arbitration now too.
Speaker 3: And just to go a little bit deeper on that,
Speaker 3: companies are adding language that says if you try to
Speaker 3: sue them or bring some kind of legal claim later,
Speaker 3: you have to go through arbitration instead of taking it
Speaker 3: to court. And while arbitration might sound nicer than going
Speaker 3: to full blown court, it can really change the playing field.
Speaker 3: I mean usually it means the case stays private, there's
Speaker 3: less discovery, and you're not appearing before a jury of
Speaker 3: your peers. So it's one of those clauses people tend
Speaker 3: to skim past when they're stressed and just trying to
Speaker 3: sign the damn paperwork. But it can matter a lot
Speaker 3: down the road. If there are any big issues with
Speaker 3: your employment.
Speaker 4: How about can you negotiate a severance after you've already
Speaker 4: been laid off? And also, as you were talking, I
Speaker 4: was wondering, should I be thinking, I know this is
Speaker 4: maybe like gloomy, but a little bit along like a
Speaker 4: prenup conversation, should I be thinking about including things when
Speaker 4: I'm being hired that then says, oh, if you ever
Speaker 4: lay me off, you have to give me x amount
Speaker 4: for X amount of years I've been here or something.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, how can I be thinking about negotiating severance both
Speaker 4: before I even start the job and then after I've
Speaker 4: been laid off too?
Speaker 2: Yes, we love a proactive queen. So what I would
Speaker 2: do is, if you're going to be negotiating a contract
Speaker 2: to start employment, absolutely you want to include those things
Speaker 2: in there, like a notice period. We have been able
Speaker 2: to negotiate severance just on that alone. Like if I
Speaker 2: have a doctor who comes to me and they have
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty day notice period between ninety to
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty days a standard in that industry,
Speaker 2: if the hospital wants to get rid of them earlier
Speaker 2: and they break that contract, that's a claim we can
Speaker 2: use to leverage higher severance payout. So those are terms
Speaker 2: that you can request as part of that, and I
Speaker 2: wouldn't put it like personally, I would make it a
Speaker 2: notice period because that's where we're going to be able
Speaker 2: to use it more broadly other than just like in
Speaker 2: the event of layoff. Because they're going to call it
Speaker 2: a restruct sure or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So what I would do is just be like, in
Speaker 2: the event employment end is this is what the notice period.
Speaker 2: You could negotiate that, but it really just depends on
Speaker 2: what you're being paid the notice period, and you can't
Speaker 2: bleed a turn up. If the company is really folding
Speaker 2: up and they cannot offer you more, you're not going
Speaker 2: to be able to get more money. It really depends
Speaker 2: on all the circumstances of the situation.
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's just say we've got severance figured out,
Speaker 3: or there isiness everance or whatever, you've been laid off.
Speaker 3: What happens at that point to any unused PTO paid
Speaker 3: time off, any bonuses that they're in your contract. Let's
Speaker 3: say that you get fired like three quarters of the
Speaker 3: way through the year and you've contributed to those sales goals,
Speaker 3: any like equity or like stock options that you have
Speaker 3: in the company that you're employed with.
Speaker 1: What happens to all that stuff?
Speaker 2: Those are all things I would immediately follow up what
Speaker 2: they try to ask what they're going to be doing about,
Speaker 2: because unfortunately, you do not have a right to have
Speaker 2: PTO paid out in most states. Now, different states might
Speaker 2: have different laws, but there's no federal requirement requiring PTO
Speaker 2: to be paid out. So I'll use Missouri as an example.
Speaker 2: In Missouri, if you get laid off, you don't get
Speaker 2: to cash out your PTO unless the company has a
Speaker 2: policy or different procedure that they will do on their own.
Speaker 2: You don't have a right to have your PTO cashed out.
Speaker 2: That's another reason why you want to use your PTO.
Speaker 2: Don't be sitting on that that company will get ready
Speaker 2: to you and replace you tomorrow.
Speaker 5: Like use your PTO because it can be a user
Speaker 5: or lose it kind.
Speaker 2: Of thing if employment ends, But you can ask for
Speaker 2: it to be paid out again.
Speaker 5: Like we were just talking about this squeaky reel.
Speaker 2: The worst case they're going to say is no, maybe
Speaker 2: that they're not going to pay you the PTO.
Speaker 3: In the same vein basically we talked about the PTO
Speaker 3: and everything. A lot of people have a four oh
Speaker 3: one K with their employer too, and so I'm curious
Speaker 3: what's the best way to handle.
Speaker 1: That when you part ways with an employer.
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of experience with like employee
Speaker 2: benefits like the four oh one k. I know not
Speaker 2: to be dangerous, but for some of my cases that's
Speaker 2: been involved in, you can usually continue it with your
Speaker 2: new employer. You just have to update the information. I've
Speaker 2: also had people want to dip into it if they
Speaker 2: need to, you do get a penalty, is my understanding
Speaker 2: of that, if you tap into it too early. But
Speaker 2: some people need that money to buy them time to
Speaker 2: the next job. So everyone has to do what they
Speaker 2: have to do. But that's part of what should be
Speaker 2: included in the paperwork. If you are given that reduction
Speaker 2: and forced notice or the layoff paperwork, they should give
Speaker 2: you an itemized list and like how to roll over
Speaker 2: your benefits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's just another super important thing
Speaker 3: for people to remember. I mean, some people put like
Speaker 3: a thousand bucks in therefore, okay, maybe they forget about
Speaker 3: it whatever, but it is your money and you should
Speaker 3: take it with you, Yes, especially for people who had
Speaker 3: multiple jobs over the years, Like maybe you've set up
Speaker 3: your personal IRA, right, you can roll your four oh
Speaker 3: one k over into that.
Speaker 1: And so that's just a super important thing to make
Speaker 1: sure you take with you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, don't leave your money behind, No, take everything.
Speaker 4: Can you tell us a little bit too about who
Speaker 4: qualifies for unemployment benefits and how do you apply sure.
Speaker 2: So and again I'll just speak for Missouri as an example,
Speaker 2: because you apply through the state. You just go online
Speaker 2: and start the process, and it's a questionnaire you fill out.
Speaker 2: Really want to caution everyone what you fill out on
Speaker 2: the questionnaire in any state becomes part of the file.
Speaker 2: So don't be ranting about how you hate everyone at
Speaker 2: work and all this suff you know, like, stick to
Speaker 2: the issues. Okay, Like I was fired on this date.
Speaker 2: It wasn't my fault. This is what they said I
Speaker 2: was fired for.
Speaker 5: Can I have my money?
Speaker 2: Keep it sweet and simple, Okay, we don't need dating
Speaker 2: back to twenty twenty two.
Speaker 5: How everyone there sucks. Okay, it's down twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: So you really want to keep it basic on what
Speaker 2: you're asking for and start that process online. They will
Speaker 2: need some documents like your pay stub to name the
Speaker 2: correct paying entity, some other items like that. Also, start
Speaker 2: immediately applying for positions once you get your bearings, because
Speaker 2: you will have to submit that to receive benefits once
Speaker 2: you're past the waiting period. They want to know that
Speaker 2: you're actively seeking new work, not just sitting around collecting
Speaker 2: unemployment so you can get kind of ahead of the
Speaker 2: curve because I don't know the exact amount off the
Speaker 2: top of my head, but I know it's a requirement
Speaker 2: like X amount of applications per week or something like that.
Speaker 2: Those are things I would just get started and keep
Speaker 2: it simple when you're filling out the form. That's where
Speaker 2: I see a lot of people go wrong, and then
Speaker 2: like I get it later when I'm helping them with
Speaker 2: the thing, because I do have a case and I'm like,
Speaker 2: why did you ran in here? Like now they have
Speaker 2: all this information that they otherwise wouldn't have had. It's
Speaker 2: also not relevant, but you're entitled to unemployment benefits if
Speaker 2: you are fired or workstops due to no fault of
Speaker 2: your own. Now, this can look like quiet quitting from
Speaker 2: the employer. They just remove you from the schedule and
Speaker 2: never schedule you to work again. That you may be
Speaker 2: eligible for benefits. But if you were fired for violating
Speaker 2: a known company policy like the attendance policy, no call,
Speaker 2: no show, anything like that, then the employer can contest
Speaker 2: your application for benefits and it goes through that hearing process.
Speaker 2: If you appeal, like we talked about earlier, but generally,
Speaker 2: as long as the reason you're not working isn't your
Speaker 2: fault and you're able to work, you'll probably get benefits.
Speaker 3: I also would want to address some stigma here. When
Speaker 3: I got laid off, people are like, are you gonna
Speaker 3: apply for unplanned benefits? And I was like, Oh, I'll
Speaker 3: never do that. Like why, I'm so glad.
Speaker 2: For Yes, there is some weird stigma about, like a
Speaker 2: negative stigma, and there shouldn't be. I'm so glad you
Speaker 2: brought that up because a lot of people say that
Speaker 2: when I'm doing the consultation, because I need to know
Speaker 2: if they're going to contest the benefits. When he said,
Speaker 2: she said situation for example, there's nothing wrong about applying
Speaker 2: for benefits. You pay into them during your employment. You
Speaker 2: need to get them if you need them. That's what
Speaker 2: it's there for a lot of people need to just
Speaker 2: like set their pride aside and get your unemployment benefits
Speaker 2: if you're eligible, because if not, you're not getting the
Speaker 2: money that you've paid into.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the amount of people who have lost their jobs
Speaker 3: and told me like, oh, I'm not going to do that,
Speaker 3: it just blows my mind because I'm like.
Speaker 5: I hate hearing that is literally what it's there for.
Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, no one should be ashamed about taking
Speaker 3: advantage of it, Like exactly, we pay into it. It's
Speaker 3: kind of like Social Security. You pay into it, you
Speaker 3: deserve to take advantage of it when it's your turn to.
Speaker 2: It's also not public record, like, there's no reason to
Speaker 2: be ashamed of it. No one will ever know that
Speaker 2: you received it besides you and whoever prepares your taxes,
Speaker 2: so there's no reason to be ashamed of it. It's
Speaker 2: not like they can go up and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: Matt got unemployment four years ago, he's going to be
Speaker 2: a bad employee. That doesn't happen. There's no record of it.
Speaker 2: And that's not how that works. If you're eligible, go
Speaker 2: get your benefits.
Speaker 5: No one will know.
Speaker 3: Just go get your money, yeah, and then lie about
Speaker 3: it on TikTok. You don't have to tell TikTok.
Speaker 4: It's not that easy to do too. So it's not
Speaker 4: like being abused in the way that you'll sometimes hear about.
Speaker 4: It's like that is for all of us who contribute
Speaker 4: to that, use it, get.
Speaker 5: It, enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't just hand you a benefit. You have
Speaker 2: to fill out the questions, you have to be eligible
Speaker 2: and then you may receive them. So yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: like a handout. There's nothing to be ashamed of for
Speaker 2: getting unemployment.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 3: And we're back with more grown up stuff. How do
Speaker 3: I don't I want to come to another kind of
Speaker 3: gray area where you are laid off but there's just
Speaker 3: this inkling in your head that like this doesn't feel right.
Speaker 3: What are the signs that your termination might actually be
Speaker 3: like a wrongful termination?
Speaker 1: And then what can you do about that?
Speaker 2: So the wrongful terminations we look for if a layoff happens,
Speaker 2: or we're wanting to see if severance might be offered. First,
Speaker 2: it's going to start if it involves a protected class.
Speaker 2: And so protected class example is age between forty and
Speaker 2: sixty nine years old, sex, disability, religion, pregnancy, those can
Speaker 2: all be different protected classes. Now here's the myth. I've
Speaker 2: been getting a lot of things lately. Or people will
Speaker 2: write me and be like, hey, I was laid off.
Speaker 2: I think it was due to my age. But they
Speaker 2: just happen to be the age and the protected class.
Speaker 2: They don't have any actual like specific example of oh,
Speaker 2: only everyone over forty was selected, or oh, a week
Speaker 2: ago I reported I thought I was being discriminated against
Speaker 2: because I'm the oldest on the team, and then they
Speaker 2: laid me off. Those are all little triggering events we
Speaker 2: want to look for if you just happen to be
Speaker 2: in a protected class. But it's never been an issue,
Speaker 2: Probably not much we can do unless we find out
Speaker 2: something we didn't know, like behind the scenes information. Also,
Speaker 2: you want to look that they're not laying off the
Speaker 2: oldest people on the team, or laying off only the women,
Speaker 2: or only the men, or only the people working from home.
Speaker 2: Is in a comedy for the disability, It's so hard.
Speaker 2: There's no like bright line test to see if you
Speaker 2: might have been wrongfully fired. So what I would say is,
Speaker 2: if you have a gut feeling, trust your gut, if
Speaker 2: your spider sense is tingling, it's for a reason, and
Speaker 2: just do some research and ask do not spit it
Speaker 2: in chat GBT. Please Dear God, for the love of God,
Speaker 2: do not do that, because you waive off privilege. And
Speaker 2: if you do have a case and you sue the employer,
Speaker 2: you might have to produce that like, hey, chat GBT,
Speaker 2: do I have a case, we'll have to produce that.
Speaker 2: So don't spit it into the internet, but do some
Speaker 2: research if you think it's suspicious timing or it might
Speaker 2: involve one of those protected classes, and you do usually
Speaker 2: get a consideration period before you sign the severance. And
Speaker 2: that's with the time where I'd immediately apply for unemployment,
Speaker 2: immediately start doing research if I thought I was illegally fired,
Speaker 2: And like a lot of us do the free consults.
Speaker 2: It doesn't hurt to reach out and just see worst
Speaker 2: case scenario. You email it to me, I say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't hear anything, I would sign it. Or if
Speaker 2: you're not going to talk with another lawyer, you know,
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good bad case scenario if you can
Speaker 2: still get some money.
Speaker 1: The amount of people that are just like chat GP
Speaker 1: you take the wheel.
Speaker 3: It's just.
Speaker 5: And this keeps happening online.
Speaker 2: They'll be like, oh, she's just saying that because she
Speaker 2: doesn't want her job to be automated. And no, I'm
Speaker 2: saying that because like two years from now, when we're
Speaker 2: fighting about is going to trial, they're gonna subpoenat all
Speaker 2: of your CHATGYBT records and like anything you've ever spit
Speaker 2: in there which people talk to it like a person
Speaker 2: until their deepest, darkest secrets. Why I don't know, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it's all discoverable, especially like if me, as the lawyer
Speaker 2: sends you as the client something and you put in chatgybt,
Speaker 2: it waives the privilege. Now they get access to that.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, wow, good to know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, do not put your legal things in chatgybt.
Speaker 4: No, don't do that. Also, I think one of the
Speaker 4: big things around a layoff too is like, yes, you
Speaker 4: need to get your affairs in order as far as
Speaker 4: like your money, your benefits, your cobra, all of that,
Speaker 4: But there is such a mental aspect to this too.
Speaker 4: Do you have advice for the best things that people
Speaker 4: can do for their mental health during this time, because again,
Speaker 4: it is a really confusing and disorienting moment.
Speaker 2: Mental health is one of the most important things you
Speaker 2: can manage in this kind of situation because it can
Speaker 2: help you not spiral and think more clearly for how
Speaker 2: you're going to move with next step. So I am
Speaker 2: a big advocate of if you can do it, if
Speaker 2: you can afford it and arrange for it, seek help
Speaker 2: either through a counselor or psychiatrists. Again, not chut GPT. Okay,
Speaker 2: some form of professional help that's going to tell you
Speaker 2: and help you not spiral, and they can help put
Speaker 2: things in place. Most of it's probably going to be
Speaker 2: like talk therapy, where you walk through and you deal
Speaker 2: with those shame thoughts or things like that. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: have seen in layoff paperwork is where they'll have an
Speaker 2: employee EAP program available for like thirty to sixty days
Speaker 2: for the layoff class, or you can talk through those things,
Speaker 2: or they'll have like job placement services also couched in
Speaker 2: there too. That's going to depend on the company and
Speaker 2: what they're offering and if a state law requires it
Speaker 2: or not. But a lot of the bigger companies we
Speaker 2: see them offer those benefits when they do the mass layoff.
Speaker 2: So if it's available and pay for it, I would
Speaker 2: sign up for that immediately.
Speaker 4: And just to clarify, EAP stands for Employee Assistance Program.
Speaker 2: Yeah, having resources or having a support group, those are
Speaker 2: the things that you should look to so that you
Speaker 2: don't spiral, because, like we said at the very beginning
Speaker 2: of this, it's not a shameful thing. Layoffs happen. It's
Speaker 2: nothing you did wrong. Probably it's just unfortunately how things go,
Speaker 2: and so taking care of your mental health can help
Speaker 2: you start the new place at the level up instead
Speaker 2: of like beating yourself down ruminating on why you got
Speaker 2: fired or all these things, and now you're starting at
Speaker 2: a disadvantage and you hate yourself.
Speaker 5: So don't do that.
Speaker 4: No, it's also so competent. I feel like before it
Speaker 4: used to be shameful for companies to do layoffs, and
Speaker 4: now they almost brag about, like we let ten thousand
Speaker 4: people go look at our stock price, and it's like,
Speaker 4: what the hell, Like you should have some shame, not
Speaker 4: you as a person, the company should have some shame
Speaker 4: in like doing this practice. Oh we'll get off my
Speaker 4: soapbox now, No, no.
Speaker 1: Are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny you say that, because yeah, they are
Speaker 2: proud of doing quarterly layoffs and things like that, and
Speaker 2: then they march the hiring back up the next quarter.
Speaker 2: That's why it's like nobody should read into it too much.
Speaker 2: It's usually not a personal thing. It's just that you're
Speaker 2: a number, unfortunately to a lot of these companies, and
Speaker 2: sometimes that number gets laid off. But you should not
Speaker 2: feel shame from being laid off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the frustration is building because not to get
Speaker 3: on my soapbox, but like, so many protections have been
Speaker 3: taken away, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts as
Speaker 3: an employment lawyer, but so many protections have been taken
Speaker 3: away over the last sixty seventy years, Like pensions got
Speaker 3: done away with and in its place got the four
Speaker 3: O one K. But it's optional and some people didn't
Speaker 3: take advantage of them, And a lot of protections are
Speaker 3: built into contracts that employees assigned with employers, and so
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I feel like the
Speaker 3: employees are getting the short end of the stick, and
Speaker 3: so people's frustrations are obviously growing with that, and it
Speaker 3: can be an incredibly difficult time, and I think it
Speaker 3: really is best to put your best foot forward and
Speaker 3: do what you can. Mental health is such a big
Speaker 3: part of it, you know, it could be a stressful
Speaker 3: time and taking some time to relax and chill out
Speaker 3: as good, but just as important, I think as early
Speaker 3: as you can is to set up what I I'd
Speaker 3: like to call like an unemployment routine, which for me
Speaker 3: that looked like one day I was just going to
Speaker 3: update my resume and the next day I was going
Speaker 3: to start even thinking about how I might build a
Speaker 3: website for myself, you know, stuff like that. So I'm
Speaker 3: curious to hear from you page, like what does a
Speaker 3: good unemployment routine look like in your eyes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll speak to this because you know how
Speaker 2: we were joking off being popping off earlier. I got
Speaker 2: fired once for popping off to a lawyer I worked for,
Speaker 2: so I'll use that as an a game off.
Speaker 5: Yes, Page, you know, I don't have to filter.
Speaker 2: So I got fired once, and I treated getting a
Speaker 2: new job like my job, so like nine to five,
Speaker 2: I was clocked in once I updated things. I was
Speaker 2: either applying for positions, asking people to network and connect,
Speaker 2: because depending on your industry, that can be a pretty
Speaker 2: easy way to get placed in a new position, especially
Speaker 2: if you were laid off and not fired for cause.
Speaker 2: So I treated it like my nine to five. You
Speaker 2: don't want to apply just one place. Diversify where you're
Speaker 2: applying because they have different algorithms, and that's kind of
Speaker 2: so AI generated. Now, if you don't use the right buzzword,
Speaker 2: your resume not even be viewed right and be one
Speaker 2: of those you know, I know it's annoying, but post on. Indeed,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be excited about being laid off, understandably,
Speaker 2: but I think there's something to be said about posting like, hey,
Speaker 2: it's sad news we got today that this is no
Speaker 2: longer going to be a position.
Speaker 5: I'm looking for work in this, this, and this.
Speaker 2: I've heard a lot of people having success from even
Speaker 2: doing something neutral like that.
Speaker 5: I applied for every position, whether it was legal or not.
Speaker 2: I was just trying to get a law firm on
Speaker 2: my resume, especially because of how my employment ended and
Speaker 2: mine was not in a nice way. I plied for
Speaker 2: lawyer positions, paralegal, front desk, janitor. If it said law firm,
Speaker 2: I was applying. Sometimes you just have to make that contact.
Speaker 2: And that's what happened with one of the jobs is
Speaker 2: they responded and they're like, well, we are hiring for
Speaker 2: a lawyer, but we do have this, And I'm like,
Speaker 2: if you could just get your foot in the door,
Speaker 2: sometimes that might translate into a job, or am I
Speaker 2: just translate into something that'll.
Speaker 5: Help you later get a job.
Speaker 2: But I treated it like my job to get a
Speaker 2: new job, and it also was good for my mind,
Speaker 2: like I felt like I was being productive and I
Speaker 2: was doing things to help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you said that. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends, unfortunately that are going
Speaker 3: through this difficult time, and the number one thing that
Speaker 3: I say to all of them is whatever you can
Speaker 3: do to reach out to your network, to expand your network,
Speaker 3: to go to networking events. I've never gotten a job
Speaker 3: through applying to a job ever. I've only ever gotten
Speaker 3: jobs through people that I knew, that I met, that
Speaker 3: I worked with. Never burn bridges. Always show up and
Speaker 3: do your best work because you just never ever know
Speaker 3: where your next opportunity is going to come from. And
Speaker 3: this is the time treating like your next job like
Speaker 3: it is your job.
Speaker 1: Getting your next job like it is your job is
Speaker 1: a huge part of that.
Speaker 4: Speaking of your next job too, how do you address
Speaker 4: your layoff, whether that's on LinkedIn, on your resume or
Speaker 4: in your future job interviews? Like, how should you be
Speaker 4: talking about it?
Speaker 2: I would not have any kind of shame or over
Speaker 2: explain the layoff. A lot of employers are going to
Speaker 2: understand that, especially in today's world, in this economy, they're
Speaker 2: not that rare anymore, like we were talking about, So
Speaker 2: just say it if you're in an interview and you
Speaker 2: have a gap in your resume and they say, where
Speaker 2: were you working from here to here? I was laid
Speaker 2: off at this position, but I found work here after.
Speaker 2: Or I'd love to work here, but we were laid
Speaker 2: off here. Don't beat around the bush. Don't try to
Speaker 2: ignore it or hide it. I think that's weird and
Speaker 2: can come off as like a red flag to a
Speaker 2: prospective employer. But just say what it is. You were
Speaker 2: laid off with ex other people at the company, you
Speaker 2: really liked working there. Don't bad talk your employer. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's like going on a first date talking about your ex.
Speaker 5: Don't do that. Okay, that's not going to look good.
Speaker 5: That's not going to sound good.
Speaker 2: Just be honest, Be like I was working here in
Speaker 2: this department, our whole whatever was laid off, and I'd
Speaker 2: love to work here, and I can do this and this,
Speaker 2: Like just frame it that way. I would not come
Speaker 2: in grumpy or with your real feelings or anything with
Speaker 2: how you probably feel about being laid off, and just
Speaker 2: be like, Yep, that's in the past, I'm ready for
Speaker 2: new employment. That's how I would personally handle it.
Speaker 4: On that note, too, Is it weird to talk nice
Speaker 4: about your last employer, Like, I know you shouldn't talk
Speaker 4: negatively about them, but is it weird to be like, Oh,
Speaker 4: I'm so sad I was laid off. I loved that company.
Speaker 4: What's your perspective on that?
Speaker 2: Sure, as someone who interviews people for jobs, like if
Speaker 2: they're looking to work with me, it's definitely a fine
Speaker 2: line between being genuine if you really did like where
Speaker 2: you were working, or just being like pleasant and neutral
Speaker 2: and like, you know, a normal part of the conversation.
Speaker 2: So I would not go on and on about how
Speaker 2: you love your old place.
Speaker 1: Let's stick with the X.
Speaker 5: Think of the date.
Speaker 2: Would your new date like to hear how much you
Speaker 2: missed your ex? Probably not, But would they like to
Speaker 2: hear you didn't try to light their car on fire? Yeah,
Speaker 2: So like I would just stick to like, we liked
Speaker 2: working there, but for whatever reason it didn't work out.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't spend a lot of time looking at the
Speaker 2: past again pivot toward being like, this is why un
Speaker 2: employment ended there, this is what I was working on there,
Speaker 2: like these skills or these projects, and this is why
Speaker 2: I'd like to do it for your company. I noticed
Speaker 2: you have this in this just try to see how
Speaker 2: you could flow that in. But it has to be
Speaker 2: genuine or it's going to come off weird. Right If
Speaker 2: you just go on and on how much you liked
Speaker 2: working there, you can do too much. A little goes
Speaker 2: a long way when you're talking about your ex in
Speaker 2: any setting, I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And i'd say this, especially to my fellow high
Speaker 3: EQ people out. Their emotions really don't serve you well
Speaker 3: in moments like this. In America, it's just a thing.
Speaker 3: We tie a lot of our identity to our jobs,
Speaker 3: so much so that getting laid off can feel deeply personal.
Speaker 3: But as hard as it is, try to approach these
Speaker 3: situations as unemotionally as possible. Don't burn bridges, don't react impulsively,
Speaker 3: and always stay professional and positive. That mindset goes a
Speaker 3: really long way, whether you're leaving a job or interviewing
Speaker 3: for the next one.
Speaker 5: I would also do interviews.
Speaker 2: You don't necessarily want as practice to not be emotional
Speaker 2: for the ones that you do, And I know a
Speaker 2: lot of people probably aren't turning down job offers in
Speaker 2: our economy right now, but I would do interviews with
Speaker 2: whoever responds to you, even if you're not one hundred
Speaker 2: percent interested in it, because maybe that's where you'll get
Speaker 2: that venting or that little emotion part out and you're like, ah,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that when I want this
Speaker 2: important interview for the job I really want. So I
Speaker 2: would just take everything like a practice opportunity when you're
Speaker 2: in that transition.
Speaker 3: I think in all things, keeping emotion toned when it
Speaker 3: comes to employment is good advice.
Speaker 1: Be a chill dude. Just chill out.
Speaker 5: Again.
Speaker 2: Back to the dating example. You got to act like
Speaker 2: you want it less than they do. That way, you
Speaker 2: have negotiating power if you want to raise Yeah, because
Speaker 2: if they think you will leave, maybe they'll pay you more.
Speaker 5: Or if they know that you're really.
Speaker 2: Like the work from home schedule and you're never gonna leave,
Speaker 2: they're gonna abuse you with that.
Speaker 5: I totally agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Paige.
Speaker 4: Wait, and you were talking before about treating unemployment like
Speaker 4: your full time job in the day, like nine to
Speaker 4: five is dedicated to networking and sending resumes. I'll add
Speaker 4: to that too. Use the evenings or the mornings or
Speaker 4: whatever your lunch break for your hobbies as well, because
Speaker 4: like that's a great time to still have that balance.
Speaker 4: And then also you're like, wait, I love knitting, should
Speaker 4: I be a professional scarf maker? Like maybe you should be.
Speaker 1: On TikTok Yes exactly, yes.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and you can make money off your videos of knitting. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's great to add. Yeah, I think that helps you
Speaker 2: not spiral and lose yourself if you keep a structure,
Speaker 2: keep your hobbies, absolutely, but any way you could diversify
Speaker 2: your income. It can make you bolder in that period
Speaker 2: if you can have something else to rely on.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, well.
Speaker 4: Put and just to put a bow on this whole topic,
Speaker 4: can you share just a few final thoughts on how
Speaker 4: to react if you get laid off.
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing is do not be
Speaker 2: your own worst enemy if you get laid off. This
Speaker 2: isn't a you thing. This is just a business thing.
Speaker 2: Let's hit the ground running and apply. Don't sit there
Speaker 2: and wallow for months. You're not going to help yourself
Speaker 2: with that, and you're going to give yourself a disadvantage.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing that I would like to add
Speaker 2: is take it as a blessing in disguise and move
Speaker 2: forward from there. It really depends on your attitude and
Speaker 2: it's going to come across in your interviews. When you're
Speaker 2: looking for new employment, you have to just be okay
Speaker 2: with it and move on. And so take the steps
Speaker 2: you need to do to get there and then start applying. Great,
Speaker 2: And when are the times that somebody would need an
Speaker 2: employment lawyer? I think anytime that something weird is happening
Speaker 2: at work. You don't have to be fired to contact
Speaker 2: an employment lawyer. And in fact, sometimes we can help
Speaker 2: before it even gets there. If someone needs accommodations and
Speaker 2: you reach out to me because they're not giving them
Speaker 2: to you, I can send you the language that kind
Speaker 2: of scares them. Boom, you're accommodated. Never have to see
Speaker 2: me again. That's great. I hope you have a great life.
Speaker 2: Don't wait for the bad thing to have already happened
Speaker 2: to contact a lawyer. Like most of us work on contingency.
Speaker 2: Most of us provide free consultations. Just reach out and
Speaker 2: be like, hey, this is weird stuff happening at work.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it'll be a thing or not. Again,
Speaker 2: it's better to be proactive. So if you think you
Speaker 2: might need a lawyer, I would not delay it. I
Speaker 2: would reach out before the bad thing happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I just wanted to quickly shout this out
Speaker 3: because I think it matters so much when lawyers work
Speaker 3: on contingency. There are so many situations when people need
Speaker 3: legal help, but the system is built around representing the
Speaker 3: companies with money. I've looked for tenants rights lawyers before
Speaker 3: and realize that most of them represent the landlords. It's
Speaker 3: the same thing with healthcare. When my wife and I
Speaker 3: were dealing with insurance issues during her pregnancy, I tried
Speaker 3: finding someone focused on patience rights and it was surprisingly difficult.
Speaker 3: So having attorneys who can actually advocate for regular people
Speaker 3: and make it financially possible to pursue a case, it's
Speaker 3: incredibly important. So seriously, paiged thank you so much for
Speaker 3: doing this work.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you could put some information together and hopefully
Speaker 2: help people navigate getting laid off.
Speaker 5: It's not the end of the world.
Speaker 4: As always, I learned a ton, so thank you so
Speaker 4: much to Paige Sparks from Sparks Legal. You can find
Speaker 4: her online and on TikTok.
Speaker 3: And if you happen to find yourself currently unemployed, maybe
Speaker 3: join us again in two weeks where we'll be talking
Speaker 3: about all the things you need to know to travel internationally.
Speaker 4: First step, get yourself a passport. If you don't already
Speaker 4: have one, you'll want it. I'm Leah Palmery. This episode
Speaker 4: was produced by Pamela Lawrence. Our post producer is Sierra Spreen,
Speaker 4: with additional engineering by Mac Wido
Speaker 3: And a special thank you to all our teammates at
Speaker 3: Ruby's Studio, including Sarah You, Ethan Fixel, Rachel Swan Krasnov,
Speaker 3: Lydia Kim and Medylan Harper, Wayne, Deborah Garrett, and mister
Speaker 3: Andy Kelly