WEBVTT - Jill | Betrayal Weekly 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.640 Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.440 three of Betrayal is now a docu series on Hulu. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.720 It's the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.840 who betrayed them. See the voices You've come to know 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.520 in Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu. 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.160 It was just my daughter and me, the TV and 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.600 the laundry, and I just remember being on the ground, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.400 totally hyperventilating, having the only panic attack I've ever had 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:35.440 in my life. If this could be true, and I 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:41.520 could have no idea, how on earth would I ever 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:48.000 know who the monsters were. 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.000 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.600 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:12.600 change everything. Today, we have a story about family, about 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.560 what it means to love someone and to lose them, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.520 not to death, but to something much harder to talk about. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.640 In some ways, it feels harder to grieve for a 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.760 person who isn't dead. 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.880 That's doctor Jill Stoddard. She's a clinical psychologist, a mother, 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.240 a woman with a close knit family and what she 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.640 always thought was a safe, ordinary childhood. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:45.039 So I grew up in a suburb of Boston, stereotypical, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:50.160 middle class, waspy kind of upbringing. Mom was always home 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.520 when we got home from school, and even though Dad 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.840 worked hard, he was always home by six o'clock for dinner, 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.840 so it felt like a very normal, intact family. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.720 Jill was the oldest. Then came her brother John, who 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.160 was two years younger, and then when Jill was seven, 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:07.880 her youngest brother was born. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.160 When my little brother was born, my mom would always say, well, 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.639 we can't very well name you Jill, John and Bob. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:17.240 It just doesn't sound good. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.080 And so she named him jim And then all of 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.160 our you know, holiday cards, everything from that point on, 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.320 whenever my parents signed it, it was their first names 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:30.520 and the three jas. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.519 From the time he was a baby, Jimmy stood out 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:36.200 in the best way. 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:41.880 We were all very average looking brunettes, brown hair, brown eyes, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.560 and he had this bright orange hair and bright blue 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:52.440 eyes and freckles, and you know, he was so just 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:53.959 stunning looking and adorable. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.560 I feel like he kind of always had a little 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:56.359 bit of drool on. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.640 His face for some reason when he was little, and 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.520 people would stop us on the street to comment on 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.720 his hair and how cute he was. 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.040 Jill adored her little brother. He wasn't just a cute baby, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:12.800 he was a happy baby. 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:18.720 He was just this like very lovable, goofy, funny little guy. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.760 And one of his favorite things that he would do 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.440 on command is we would say happy face, and he 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.120 would make this like very big, bright, smiley happy face, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.160 and though we'd say mad face, and then he'd make 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:36.120 this very mad face and it just cracked us up. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.160 As he got older, Jimmy clearly looked up to Jill 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.920 and John. They would lovingly tease him, and he played 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:44.520 along too. 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:50.000 We would yell the word servant, like servant, and then 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.520 you would hear bitter better, bitter better, bitter better, bitter better, 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.680 and he would just come running and you'd say, go 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.600 make me some chocolate milk, and he would like happily 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.119 go run and make chocolate milk. 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.240 Because he he was like just happy to be included. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:04.080 You know. 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.280 When the family got a camcorder, the kids' film skits 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:09.040 and commercials. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.240 One of the skits we would do was mister Rogers, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.440 and he would play mister mcpheey and ring the doorbell 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.760 and say speedy delivery, speedy delivery, and was just like 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.560 always up for anything. 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.880 Having Jimmy intew made everything more fun. Besides his red hair, 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:32.520 Jimmy's most defining feature was his laugh. Not only was 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:39.120 he hilarious, but he laughed really easily, and that just 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.680 always felt so good that even if you're not a 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.080 person that everyone thinks of as being really funny, when 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.720 you were with him, you felt really funny. Despite their 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:53.720 seven year age difference, Jill loved his company. I don't 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.120 ever remember there being a time where I was like, 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.680 you're annoying, get away from me. I think even as 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.560 we both got older, he was still my baby brother, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.160 and we were very, very close, and he was always 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.120 just sweet and fun and funny. And I'm sure that 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.000 there were probably times that, you know, I closed my 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.640 door and was like, get away from me, But those 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:22.440 moments aren't the ones she remembers. When Jill thinks back 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.800 on her childhood, there's Jimmy in the frame every time, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.920 with his messy red hair and his huge smile. Because 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.360 Jimmy was the baby, Jill says, he got away with 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:34.799 a lot. 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.680 Our parents were a fair amount more permissive with him, 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.960 which I think is pretty typical of their children. Maybe 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.840 because you're tired by the time you have a third 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.400 child coming along, you're older, kind of like been there, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.200 done that, You're like less worried, less anxious. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.440 As Jimmy got older, he got in. 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.800 Trouble more often than we did. And a lot of 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.200 the things he got in trouble for were not things 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.039 that my middle brother and I weren't also doing. He 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.000 just got caught more frequently than we did. Their mom 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.839 had a hypothesis about why Jimmy always seemed to get 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.600 in trouble at school. The teacher's writing on the chalkboard 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.599 and all the little kids in class are chit chatting, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.280 and she turns around to see who the culprit is, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.080 and you're looking at a sea of brown and blonde heads. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.279 You know, your eyes are naturally drawn to the bright, 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.200 orange haired kid. 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.320 There was some sense in it, but it didn't explain 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.560 why Jimmy was falling behind in school. 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.960 At some point, my mom told me that she had 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.160 all three of us IQ tested. She never told us 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.920 the results or the scores, but she did tell us 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.320 that Jimmy had the highest IQ, which is not surprising, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:52.279 like he was very naturally intelligent, but he probably did 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.119 the worst in school, which I would guess is probably 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.800 because he had untreated ADHD until he was in high school, 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.040 and then by then, you know, I think when you 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.560 have a history of like kind of always doing the 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.960 wrong thing because you have untreated ADHD, you sort of 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.400 stopped trying to do the right thing. 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.160 By high school, Jimmy developed a pattern of making excuses. 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.520 It was hard to tell what was just Jimmy being 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.760 Jimmy and what was cause for concern. But Jill was 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.120 hardly around for those years because she left for college 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.320 when Jimmy was eleven. She studied psychology because she wanted 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.559 to know how people tick. She called her parents every 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.760 week and they would give her updates about Jimmy. She 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.160 remembers one story in particular that gave her pause. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.239 He got in a fight with a classmate in high school. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.520 I don't remember why, and we like smashed a tennis racket. 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.000 I think he might have physically assaulted the kid, because 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.240 I remember my dad saying that the family was threatening 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.120 to sue. So it was more than just angry outburst 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.560 that ruined a tennis racket. And so that kind of 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.120 thing was like the start of us seeing there's something 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.960 going on with him at the time, Jill was focused 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.640 on getting her master's degree, and despite being a troublemaker 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.920 in high school, Jimmy ended up getting accepted to the 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.040 same college as his two older siblings. I think I 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.000 thought of it at the time as like, I'm not 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.200 his mom, I'm his sister, Like it's not my job 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.240 to figure out how to get him in line. When 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.400 Jill was accepted into a PhD program, it meant she 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.360 would need to move back to Boston, so she packed 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:43.520 up to move across the country. On the way, she 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.600 planned to stop at her parents' house for the night. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.680 I had driven cross country with my boyfriend at the time, 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.720 and we ended up arriving one day ahead of schedule. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.160 And we arrived at night to my parents' house, and 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.640 my parents must have been out of town for some reason, 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.400 and Jimmy was having party and I walked into the 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.360 kitchen and there was cocaine on the table. You know, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:06.880 there's a rolled up dollar bill. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:11.839 She'd never seen cocaine in real life. Jimmy told her 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.760 to relax. He was twenty at the time. It's not 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.720 like he was a child. But to me, no matter 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.800 how old we got, he was always my baby brother 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:28.000 and so it just felt very shocking. As Jill started 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.800 her PhD program, Jimmy was in college. 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:36.280 This was a time where I was working twelve hours 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.920 a day, seven days a week. There was always some 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.960 thirty five page paper due. But as busy as she was, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.520 she wouldn't miss Jimmy's college graduation. When the time came, 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.920 she bought a plane ticket and traveled a few states north. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:57.640 I have no time and no money, but this was 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.439 a really big deal that he was graduating, and so 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.320 my entire family flew out and got up early and 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.280 were sitting in the auditorium waiting for him to cross 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:12.080 the stage. They're reading the names alphabetically, and they go 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:16.880 right past where he should have been, and we waited 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.640 and were very confused, and he never walked across the stage. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.240 The family got in their rental car and drove to 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.679 Jimmy's apartment concerned, so we knocked on the door. He 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.880 answered the door, looking very sleepy. All the lights were off, 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.880 and he started ranting about his stupid, effing roommate who 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.920 must have turned off his alarm. And we were so upset. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.880 We spent all this time and money and effort to 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.760 get out to this big event, and like he couldn't 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.720 even be responsible enough to show up to the graduation. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.880 You know, it turned into a fight and we decided 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.000 to go home early. It just felt like it was 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:00.240 an escalation of irresponsibility and unreliability. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:05.679 Their family wondered if Jimmy actually graduated at all. Her 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.640 parents asked him directly, and he said, no, no, I 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.079 definitely graduated, and they had no way of proving it. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:13.000 They're paying for. 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.360 His school, but they don't have access to his school records, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.600 so there was nothing they could really do to confirm 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.559 whether this was the truth. And I think ultimately they 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.680 just opted to believe them. 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.880 But Jill still had her suspicions about what really happened 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:34.520 that weekend. It was years later and we were having 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.280 fun and having drinks and I asked him, I said, 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.520 tell me the truth, like what was the real story? 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.199 Did you graduate? And he was like, well, don't tell 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.920 mom and dad, But no, I didn't graduate. So the 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.480 whole thing was actually premeditated, and the lie about the 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:52.600 alarm clock. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:57.360 And his ire that how dare we leave him when 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.080 this wasn't his fault? It was an act all along. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:07.800 He knew that he wasn't graduating. That conversation made Jilsey 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.040 her brother a little differently. Before this moment, she knew 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.960 he could be irresponsible, but she didn't know he had 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.480 the capacity to lie like this. I had a pretty 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:23.880 complicated emotional reaction to that. I was really angry. It 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.000 was sort of like, how dare you? Like, how can 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:27.640 you do. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.200 This to us? You know? 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.640 I think the anger was the thing that was covering 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:38.360 the harder emotion, which was like fear, fear of who 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.960 her brother really was and what he was capable of. 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:48.360 So after his fake graduation from college, I remember him 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.360 kind of like job jumping a fair amount because he 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.080 always had a terrible boss, you know, that kind of thing. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.960 And that was kind of the extent that my middle 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:58.400 brother and I knew. 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.679 Became an arborist, a tree expert, and he started his 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:05.000 own landscaping business. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.040 He ended up moving back to New England and lived 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.319 in the same town as my middle brother and his family, 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.280 and so they started to see more of him and 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:24.120 to see some behaviors that were concerning. He was going 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.760 to go out and get his truck washed, and he'd 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.559 be gone for hours and then he would come back 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.120 and his truck wouldn't be washed, but he would never 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.720 explain where he was or what he was doing. 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.760 Every year, there'd be one good visit with Jimmy and 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.080 one visit where Jimmy was clearly up to something. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:53.400 Despite the irresponsibility and the frustration, I still adored him 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.640 and we were still very cloth like. I was frustrated 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.840 by his behavior, but pretty quick to forgive him. And 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.600 partly that's because he's my baby brother, and he wasn't 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:09.959 always like that, and that cute, little, sweet and enthusiastic 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.960 and happy little boy like he was still that in 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:17.120 so many ways. I even remember, while I was in 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.920 graduate school having a conversation with one of my friends 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.400 that classic question of like, if you were going to 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.120 be stranded on a desert island with five people, who 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.520 would be on your island? 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.160 And he was at the top of my list. 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.200 Jimmy was there when Jill got married in Vegas. It 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.560 was an intimate wedding, a house party, but the next 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.160 morning Jimmy was taking someone to the airport and he 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.960 disappeared for hours, and when he finally came back, he 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.040 was like sweaty and anxious and claimed it was because 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.600 he was lost I just remember my brother, my sister 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.680 in law, my husband, and I all being like, something 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.640 is going on here, no idea what it is, but 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:20.880 it's got to be drugs. Right after years of Jimmy's 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.080 strange behavior, Jill and her other brother, John assumed that 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.680 he must be secretly using drugs. It was the only 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:34.760 logical explanation. By twenty thirteen, Jill had achieved some big 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:35.920 life milestones. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.960 I was working as a professor in a graduate school 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:45.040 for psychology. My daughter had just turned one, and I 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.560 was working on my very first book. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.560 One day, she was home alone with her infant daughter. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:57.680 I was in my family room TV on, daughters playing 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.320 on the floor, and I was folding laundry, and I 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.440 got a text message from John that said he was 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.640 on his way to go bail Jimmy out of jail. 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.800 And of course we're speculating back and forth, what do 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.160 you think this is. It's got to be drugs because 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.680 this was on the heels of some of this bizarre, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.440 suspicious behavior. So we thought, okay, this is our confirmation 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.600 he's using drugs. I was like, all right, just keep 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.160 me posted, and so he started texting me with updates 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.480 as he got them. I don't remember what all the 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.320 texts said, but I do remember the one that came 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:42.400 through that said, it's a class felony. A felony either 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.360 he has like a large amount or he was distributing 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:47.120 or selling. 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.840 But then Jill got the text that changed her life. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.600 The police had confiscated Jimmy's computer and they'd found photos 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.280 of underage girls. 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:06.320 What made it a felony was that the children in 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:12.040 the images were clearly under the age of twelve, they 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:17.199 were pre pubescent. And I remember like falling to the 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.400 ground having the only panic attack I've ever had in 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.199 my life. My husband wasn't home, and it was just 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.919 my daughter and me, the TV and the laundry, and 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:33.360 I just remember being on the ground, totally hyperventilating. Oh 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.600 this to this day, so it's been twelve years. I 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:44.399 just remember feeling so panicked that if this could be 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:50.080 true about my brother, and I could have no idea 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.919 how on earth was I ever going to keep my 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.480 daughter safe, How on earth would I ever know. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:17:59.879 Who the monster. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.640 Jimmy insisted that he'd been framed, just. 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.880 Like he told us, he graduated and his alarm didn't 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.119 go off. We didn't believe anything he was saying. Jill 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.119 formed an alliance with her sister in law, John's wife, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.399 and so she and I we would get on the 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.760 phone for hours and hours and hours and talk about 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.679 all of the sat nauseum because we were on the 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.199 same page and we were both new moms. All we 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.080 cared about was making sure that our kids were safe. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:38.760 Nothing else mattered. So my sister in law ended up 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:43.160 actually going to the courthouse to get access to whatever 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.440 records were public, and so she was able to see 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.600 what the arrest was for. It listed the file names 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.960 of the content that they found on his computer. 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.159 It wasn't a lot of information, but it was enough. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:03.080 These were photos girls as young as six. Jimmy had 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.879 photoshopped himself into some of the images. But when it 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:08.639 came to his sentencing. 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.240 The consequences were not significant. I think he maybe spent 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.040 a couple weeks incarcerated and then he was on the 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.160 sex offender registry. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.280 To Jill, it seemed like a slap on the wrist, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.360 but the inner personal cost was immeasurable. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:32.720 Because after Jimmy's arrest, our family kind of fell apart. 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.520 A stark divide formed in the family. Jill, her husband 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.080 and her sister in law wanted to cut Jimmy out 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:46.399 of their lives, but her parents weren't on the same page, 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.200 and I remember them saying things like, well, I mean, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.520 isn't it not as bad because it's only pictures. They 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.000 wanted to find a way to explain it, a way 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.520 that wasn't as horrib horrific as what the reality was 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:08.800 a lot of just mental gymnastics and denial. And what 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.320 resulted from that, I think it was pretty clear to 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:20.320 Jimmy that he could fairly successfully manipulate my parents. He 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.600 told them that his addiction to Adderall is what caused 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.240 him to do this, and I had several conversations with them, 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.800 you know, as a clinical psychologist. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:32.639 Saying. 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.359 Being high on adderall very likely led him to feel 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.119 disinhibited so that he was more likely to engage in 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.280 these behaviors, but the drug itself did not cause him 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.000 to be attracted to little girls. 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.000 Jill and her sister in law drew a firm boundary 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.960 that they would not interact with Jimmy. They both had 0:20:54.040 --> 0:21:00.400 young daughters to protect, and in response, Jimmy lashed out, 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.600 and so he sent me and my sister in law 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.040 very nasty messages. He told me I should go kill myself, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:13.679 cruel lashing out emails the likes of which we had 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.040 never seen. We had not seen this side of him. 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.800 That year, their parents invited Jimmy to the family reunion 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.200 and we were like, what, No, there were going to 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:25.200 be children there. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:26.720 He can't be there. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.760 And I remember saying finally, like, I will tell everyone 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.040 I am not allowing him to be around children without 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.600 the parents knowing. My parents didn't want anyone to know. 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.199 They wanted to keep this a secret, so I think 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.760 they ultimately just told him he couldn't come. Jill didn't 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:46.199 talk to her little brother for four years. That was 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.480 until their mom got sick, when it became clear that 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:50.200 she was near. 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:50.919 The end of her life. 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.760 Of course, my little brother also wanted to say goodbye 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.719 to his dying mother, and we were all there together, 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.520 and so my dad asked our permission based only to 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:05.480 let him come. Honestly, it was a hard decision, but 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:08.320 it wasn't you know. It was like, of course, he 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:10.480 has the right to see his mom and say goodbye 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.760 to his mom, and there were no children present for 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.919 any of that, so we let him come. 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:19.000 And this was the first time we saw. 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:22.280 Him, when Jimmy walked in the door, he looked like 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:26.480 his old self. He seemed clear eye and genuine. 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.800 He assured us that he was clean. His behavior was 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.960 quite different. He apologized for the mean emails that he 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.400 sent to my sister in law and me. He apologized 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.840 for the terrible way that he had treated all of us. 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:45.960 He was very sincere, and we believed him. We believed 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.439 that even if he still had this sexual proclivity, he 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:51.679 wasn't acting on it. 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.080 After that, Jill and Jimmy were on speaking terms again. 0:22:58.119 --> 0:22:59.480 We agreed to try to. 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.879 Repair the rupture in our relationship, but of course with 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:08.600 like gigantic boundaries that he would not be ever unsupervised 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.880 around kids or anything like that. And that lasted for 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.920 a year. Exactly one year. It was their grandmother's ninety 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:23.520 ninth birthday party. He was there and it became instantly 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.840 obvious that something was wrong. He's acting super cagey, he's 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.760 being weird. He's sleeping a lot, he's being very aggressive 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.720 and hostile. You got in a fight with someone in 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:36.879 a bar. I mean, just kind of back to a 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.480 lot of the old stuff. And I remember leaving the weekend, 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.119 and my sister in law and I talking and just saying, 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.040 like the other shoe's going to drop, We're. 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:48.840 Just waiting for the call. The call's going to come. 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:55.560 And then sure enough, shortly after that, we got the call. 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:01.640 A few months earlier, the police had received another tip 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:06.600 about Jimmy. They executed a search warrant at his house. 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:12.400 They confiscated his computers. They also found several thumb drives 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:14.640 in various pockets of his clothing. 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.399 He wasn't home during the search. His roommate called to 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:20.960 tell him that the police were looking for him, but 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.600 Jimmy was nowhere to be found, so the police tracked 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:26.560 his cell phone to try and make the arrest. 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:30.800 When they finally found him, he had climbed up a 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:34.520 very high tree. He was a tree guy in arborist, 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:37.800 so he had equipment to climb trees, and the police 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:42.639 all came and he was demanding a letter that he 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:45.800 would not be held responsible for what they found, and 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:48.480 if they didn't give him that letter, that he was 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:53.040 going to jump and kill himself. They ultimately talk him 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:56.200 down out of the tree and they arrest him. 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:02.720