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Speaker 2: Welcome home, y'all. It is Native Lands mini pod that
Speaker 2: drops every week. Many many, many many mini pods can do.
Speaker 3: He does that.
Speaker 2: He's disruptive, he likes being disrupted.
Speaker 3: For our one hundredth episode, Can I just.
Speaker 1: Say Andrew to be one of the most polite people
Speaker 1: I've ever met when we hit record on this podcast.
Speaker 1: I don't know who you morphed into. It's a grimlin.
Speaker 2: He's disruptive.
Speaker 3: No, I morphed into a young brother who wants to
Speaker 3: pester you.
Speaker 2: On that note, being pestered, Yes, we have two things. One,
Speaker 2: what are we going to do for the hundredth episode?
Speaker 2: But that is right, that's something to consider. Two next week,
Speaker 2: I believe it in next week or the week after
Speaker 2: is the holiday and national holidays?
Speaker 3: White chairs?
Speaker 2: What are we doing for that? Wouldn't it beautiful if
Speaker 2: our one hundredth episode, But it doesn't. It doesn't go.
Speaker 2: You know what we need to.
Speaker 1: Ask, you know, we should ask if it will let
Speaker 1: us use that picture of Momo in that white chair
Speaker 1: for the chair episode.
Speaker 2: I know she won't, but we could. She never shows
Speaker 2: the babies, but I do like it. Well anyway, there's
Speaker 2: a heads up that we have this this holiday coming up,
Speaker 2: but for this particular episode. You know, on this week
Speaker 2: on the podcast, we were talking about like black elitism.
Speaker 2: We had that great interview with Lanny Smith from I'm
Speaker 2: Actively Black. Thank you guys for tuning in and weighing
Speaker 2: in with your thoughts there. I'm still going through and
Speaker 2: sifting through comments, so I appreciate, uh, the input that
Speaker 2: you guys always have. But it did kind of we
Speaker 2: had a few different threads. It led us to a
Speaker 2: few different places when it comes to community. And one
Speaker 2: thing we talked about was that Angela, you kind of
Speaker 2: perked up when we said this, when we talked about
Speaker 2: during my time at BT, we had to be all
Speaker 2: things to off people. And when it came to news
Speaker 2: and information, Black people like their information validated by white folks. Yes,
Speaker 2: like we could do the same programming, but if it
Speaker 2: was on CNN, then it was legit. And I just
Speaker 2: wonder why that is, what's the danger in that? Where
Speaker 2: did that come from? Obviously white supremacy, It can it
Speaker 2: be disrupted? How do we disrupt it in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways. It has been disrupted. You know, social media
Speaker 2: certainly democratized who has a voice and who gets the
Speaker 2: way in. But that came with a lot of challenges
Speaker 2: because people call themselves journalists are not journalists. You having
Speaker 2: a cell phone and a podcast does not make you
Speaker 2: a journalist. Citizen journalism where people are like reporting who
Speaker 2: don't really know how to capture a story. I think
Speaker 2: these things are great because it's access to information, but
Speaker 2: you have to know how to decipher and intermix that.
Speaker 2: So I don't know I and you know we saw
Speaker 2: people get do you like take advantage and spread disinformation
Speaker 2: intentionally or unintentionally in doing things like that? So it
Speaker 2: seems like a sticky time and a sticky topic.
Speaker 1: I appreciate this topic for a number of reasons. What
Speaker 1: it reminds me of is white validation by black people
Speaker 1: hasn't always only been sought in the news space. I
Speaker 1: can think of a time growing up where I heard
Speaker 1: elders say things like no, I need my doctor to
Speaker 1: be white, right, and it is scary, Like I strive
Speaker 1: to find black medical professionals and black lawyers, and like
Speaker 1: I like for my team to be black, and so
Speaker 1: it is. It's jarring to hear people say that, you know,
Speaker 1: white ice or show white ice is colder and that
Speaker 1: white is right. And I don't just think it is
Speaker 1: isolated to the new space. I wonder if some of
Speaker 1: that just has to do with like slavery mentality, right,
Speaker 1: like if you people cozied up to Massa, because if
Speaker 1: they did, maybe that meant their lives would be saved,
Speaker 1: literally saved. Maybe that meant their families wouldn't be broken up.
Speaker 1: I don't know where it comes from, but it does
Speaker 1: make me very uncomfortable, especially when you heard Lanny say
Speaker 1: on the show, right, like thirty billion dollars we spend
Speaker 1: thirty billion dollars on on on apparel in our community,
Speaker 1: and yes, apparel and shoes the thing that also just
Speaker 1: comes to mind, and now I feel like I'm hopping
Speaker 1: all over the place. Vince Evans sent me something on
Speaker 1: Instagram the other day of an entity that was holding
Speaker 1: like a back to school drive for clothes and shoes,
Speaker 1: but they were giving out nikes. You know, people started
Speaker 1: waking waiting in that line at nine pm the night before, right,
Speaker 1: and we had to really really promote, like giving away
Speaker 1: food or paying a light bill or whatever. And the
Speaker 1: question really was that was thought of? Is what would
Speaker 1: have happened if we would have been given away sneakers?
Speaker 1: So I think I do want to understand, like, what
Speaker 1: is our attachment to looking good? Have we assigned you know,
Speaker 1: psychology to how we appear if we look the part,
Speaker 1: does that mean we ready to really, you know, play
Speaker 1: the part a little better? What is it about white
Speaker 1: supremacist mentality and structures that have made us think that
Speaker 1: that's better collectively? Not me as an individual, I've said that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm curious to understand y'all's thoughts about this
Speaker 1: white validation model and how he disrupted.
Speaker 2: I just want to say, because you referenced Vince a lot,
Speaker 2: Vince Evans is incorrect me, You's wrong. He's the executive
Speaker 2: director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Yes, somebody you work
Speaker 2: with on stage of People tour, and as you all know,
Speaker 2: I mentioned it a few times. Angela used to be
Speaker 2: executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, so he is
Speaker 2: her successor. Many times baby shout out to.
Speaker 1: Events, thank you the boss. Sorry, Andrew, No, no, I
Speaker 1: met him on Andrew's campaign that's another thing.
Speaker 3: Sorry was a rattler and a very very smart political strategist,
Speaker 3: so they're lucky to have them. Angelau raised, I thought, too,
Speaker 3: you may you may have stated them as one, but
Speaker 3: I felt like two different strands of this, which were
Speaker 3: sort of the value or the stock we put on presentation,
Speaker 3: how we look brand that includes brands that include labels
Speaker 3: that includes color of the bottom of your shoe, you know,
Speaker 3: and so on and so forth. And then I think
Speaker 3: there is probably the question that is encompassing of this all,
Speaker 3: which is where did we learn that white was right?
Speaker 3: And that didn't mean that other things weren't right, but
Speaker 3: it needed to be measured up against. When did we
Speaker 3: make the Eurocentric standard the ruler by which all things
Speaker 3: are to be measured. It's a sad acknowledgment. It is
Speaker 3: a true acknowledgment, however, and I think for those who
Speaker 3: it is not true, for meaning those in our community
Speaker 3: who resist that have to resist it actively. And the
Speaker 3: reason why I say it has to be actively resisted
Speaker 3: this mentality is this white pejoritarian and majoritarian view of
Speaker 3: where we put value, is that society in every single
Speaker 3: way reinforces white is right in every single way. If
Speaker 3: a black person does this thing, it's looked at as
Speaker 3: criminal ghetto. I can't believe they tried it. Tiffany referenced
Speaker 3: this in our main episode this week, where she said,
Speaker 3: had b Et spun off with Real Housewives franchise and
Speaker 3: began with the Real Housewives of Atlanta or Potomac or whatever,
Speaker 3: she is absolutely right. We would have blown be Et
Speaker 3: up and basically said, you are bastardizing our black women
Speaker 3: who have achieved certain levels of success in our society,
Speaker 3: and now you're telling the rest of the world that
Speaker 3: all we do is fight, that all we can manage
Speaker 3: doing is yelling at each other, backstabbing each other, and
Speaker 3: talking about each other behind each other's back. That's what
Speaker 3: you're telling the world that we are. Andy Cohen does it,
Speaker 3: and it's like everybody's a celebrity now, right, everybody you know,
Speaker 3: they're the hottest thing since you know slight spread. So
Speaker 3: what I mean by actively resistant is you actually have
Speaker 3: to play through your mind the scenario of like questioning,
Speaker 3: why did I do a thing a certain way? Why
Speaker 3: do I feel like in order to go into this establishment,
Speaker 3: I have to look like this when there's not even
Speaker 3: a dress code that would dictate such right. But I
Speaker 3: mentally told myself, from a standpoint of value, in bringing
Speaker 3: value and being seen as a person of value, this
Speaker 3: is how I have to look and moreover, this is
Speaker 3: how I have to comport myself. We talked about Rolf
Speaker 3: Lauren Polo. I think about the fact that ral Lauren has,
Speaker 3: you know, done all these Olympic uniforms. I don't know
Speaker 3: for how many years it's been doing it, but for
Speaker 3: as long as I can remember, I just remember summer
Speaker 3: Olympics uniforms being done by Ralph Lauren Polo Polo, Ralph Lauren,
Speaker 3: and they're so in my pinch opinion, Nantucket versus Martha's
Speaker 3: Vineyard and the way they look and what you know,
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily associate. It isn't like, that's not my
Speaker 3: version of Americana. If I have a version of Americana, right,
Speaker 3: or what I would say, what would be my version
Speaker 3: of Patriotism? Right? That doesn't it didn't necessarily reflect me.
Speaker 3: But it is very apple pie American apple pie, and
Speaker 3: athletes galore, black, white and otherwise don them and they
Speaker 3: don't have a choice. They have to domn them. And
Speaker 3: then all of us who are viewing it. They make
Speaker 3: up our minds since we saw lebron in it and
Speaker 3: everybody else that now this is the status this is
Speaker 3: the new status quo. And anything anything that isn't it
Speaker 3: is a knockoff. And by the way, when we apply
Speaker 3: that to products then that are produced by black people,
Speaker 3: it's worse than a knockoff, right, it fell off a truck.
Speaker 3: When it comes to how we view stuff that comes
Speaker 3: from black folks, it's so deep. And this is why
Speaker 3: we're saying this is really it's an impossible challenge for
Speaker 3: black entrepreneurs when you're selling a product, because you are
Speaker 3: really trying to you can't just focus on the perfection
Speaker 3: of the thing you're selling. You're also having to certainly,
Speaker 3: if you're leading with black you're going to have to
Speaker 3: change mindsets in so many ways. And I know that
Speaker 3: there are listeners who say, I go out of my
Speaker 3: way and I buy blah blah blah blah blah blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. And if you do, salute to you. But
Speaker 3: I will tell you, and I don't have quantitative data
Speaker 3: to point to other than what was quoted earlier, the
Speaker 3: thirty billion that we spend in this area and black
Speaker 3: companies getting less than one billion, less than one percon
Speaker 3: one billion of that of that thirty, I don't have
Speaker 3: any data to support it, but I'll just say you
Speaker 3: are the exception to the rule. You're the overwhelming exception
Speaker 3: to the rule. And y'all, I think we absolutely have
Speaker 3: to have to have some education in reprogramming and reimagining
Speaker 3: ourselves and our value through our lens that we then
Speaker 3: start to convince ourselves as the majority lens and frankly,
Speaker 3: anything that doesn't agree with us don't matter. That's how
Speaker 3: I am as a rattler, as a family one. If
Speaker 3: you ain't go, if you ain't, don't care where you went.
Speaker 3: Morehouse spellman, y'are great, you had a great experience, but
Speaker 3: it wasn't fam you. That's how I feel about my institution.
Speaker 3: They inculcated that in me, and that's how we're going
Speaker 3: to have to feel about ourselves and the products we produce,
Speaker 3: the value.
Speaker 2: But even outside the part, because I think it's a
Speaker 2: very distinct difference conversation with the conversation we had on
Speaker 2: the main show. I think the the it's more of
Speaker 2: the concepts, you know, not the products we pretty which
Speaker 2: I think is a great conversation that we had this week.
Speaker 2: But just to draw the distinction, it is a mind
Speaker 2: shift that has to happen, and I don't Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think like we what do you call it?
Speaker 3: A re education? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think you've spoken to that and the
Speaker 2: conversation I always reference I write about with your perspective
Speaker 2: of a lack of imagination among us because of all
Speaker 2: we've known, and you know I talked a bit about
Speaker 2: that and from the book Sky Full of Elephants by c.
Speaker 2: Bu Campbell, where you can tap into your imagination and
Speaker 2: you get to ponder who are we if not in
Speaker 2: reference to them? Who are we? If we are not
Speaker 2: responding to something? Who are we? When we get to
Speaker 2: be free? You know, I feel like this when anytime
Speaker 2: I'm on the continent, like there, you don't have you
Speaker 2: can't give that head nod to everybody they like yo, okay, hello, hello?
Speaker 2: Do you do like we all black and you're like,
Speaker 2: you know, but here it's such a tight knit community
Speaker 2: and we have been so robbed of our fragility, of
Speaker 2: our safety that when we see each other, it is
Speaker 2: an acknowledgment to you one, I see you two you're
Speaker 2: you're safe because if some shit goes down, I don't
Speaker 2: know you, but I know you and I got your
Speaker 2: back and we're together. And three I am yours and
Speaker 2: you are mine. I think we have to start there.
Speaker 2: And I wonder, honestly, if we're losing a bit of that,
Speaker 2: you know, with younger generations, with some of our our
Speaker 2: social norms and more's that have been disrupted. I don't
Speaker 2: go to church, and I know a lot of families,
Speaker 2: like they don't take their kids to church every Sunday.
Speaker 2: I grew up going to church, but now I don't
Speaker 2: go to church every Sunday, And so I wonder, like
Speaker 2: for all and none of my friends do. My friends
Speaker 2: and their kids, none of them, they are not at
Speaker 2: church every Sunday, And so I wonder do they know
Speaker 2: if I said to them God is good? Would they
Speaker 2: know how to respond?
Speaker 1: They'd like, yes, yes, yes, yes, right right.
Speaker 2: Perhaps they might. But that's such a cornerstone of who
Speaker 2: we were, Like even if you're not Christian, if you
Speaker 2: are not a believer, it's like how the Jewish community
Speaker 2: it can be a faith and a culture like Black
Speaker 2: church is a part of our culture. Even if you
Speaker 2: if you don't go. And as we advance and you know,
Speaker 2: just move on into society, I wonder are we losing
Speaker 2: some of that as we make our culture heavily available
Speaker 2: across social media anybody. It used to be our secret,
Speaker 2: Now it's anybody can tap into it. Are we diluting
Speaker 2: it by sharing it? And these are another thread? And
Speaker 2: that was the conversation. Yeah, like that was the conversation
Speaker 2: to you know, how to protect, acknowledge and celebrate our
Speaker 2: culture within us, not necessarily from a product standpoint, But.
Speaker 3: I think we've done that, as I think Black people
Speaker 3: have for as long as I remember, haven't had a
Speaker 3: problem seeing each other, feeling protection, fe seeing the acknowledgment.
Speaker 3: I still think we're perplexed and are still overcome by
Speaker 3: this idea that we can see each other, love each other,
Speaker 3: protect each other and still think white is the right. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there has to be the validation, has to be the
Speaker 3: stand approval.
Speaker 1: Do you I shouldn't say don't you guys? Let me
Speaker 1: not ask a leading question. Do you all feel that
Speaker 1: part of that comes from deep rooted fear? Like do
Speaker 1: we do we like? Do we think that people earnestly
Speaker 1: believe that white is safer? Better you know or do
Speaker 1: do people make that decision? And by we again, I'm
Speaker 1: noting about the three callsts, but when we try to
Speaker 1: examine the sociology or the psychology this, really do we
Speaker 1: think that it comes from like hedging their.
Speaker 3: Bets what's allowed? I think it all comes like Okay, absolutely,
Speaker 3: I think that way about voting. I think that way
Speaker 3: about business. I think that way about all things. I
Speaker 3: think at the root of it very much so it
Speaker 3: has to do with what they're allowing. They're allowing this,
Speaker 3: and so long as the goalposts again, so long as
Speaker 3: you are the thing by which everything is measured against,
Speaker 3: what's legal, what's not, what's acceptable, what's not right, what's
Speaker 3: the right institution to attend to be considered elite? And
Speaker 3: what is it? So if they're setting and again, like
Speaker 3: I said, every way society reinforces this.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to cut you out, but think about
Speaker 1: even black banks. Like think like we have friends who
Speaker 1: are very educated. Y'all got elite friends. If you talk
Speaker 1: to them about putting their money in black banks, especially
Speaker 1: before twenty twenty, what's some of the stuff you heard back.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say on this spot, but like.
Speaker 1: Some people would say, like I might lose my money
Speaker 1: if I do. That is, if FDIC ain't there.
Speaker 3: Don't apply.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good point, and I actually think
Speaker 2: black banks and black finances is a whole other mini.
Speaker 3: Pod that we need to have lawyers, black doctors specialist.
Speaker 1: It's really about white validation regardless of the industry, right,
Speaker 1: it's a broad I was just bringing up another point,
Speaker 1: like I can think of the not even just the
Speaker 1: response y'all, but the resistance to all of these things
Speaker 1: what it's just mentioned.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I would love somebody from the financial industry to
Speaker 2: come on and talk a little more about black banks.
Speaker 2: So whomever is keeping the scroll, let's add black finance
Speaker 2: and black banks. But let me just say, I think
Speaker 2: my favorite episodes of NLP is when I speak less
Speaker 2: and I am learning so much from my two co hosts.
Speaker 2: Like anytime that happens where I'm like captivated, like I'm learning,
Speaker 2: You're saying, so you're informing me, you know, and opining,
Speaker 2: but informing me. And I feel like that that happened
Speaker 2: a lot today. So I just want to thank my
Speaker 2: co host for this enlightening conversation and the way, oh well,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of because I you Andrew made a
Speaker 2: smart comment earlier. I was asking Andrew what time is
Speaker 2: eighteen thirty and he's like six thirty. I'm like, I know,
Speaker 2: but like on the global clock, that's military time, global clock,
Speaker 2: and he's like, military clock is the global clock. So
Speaker 2: he didn't have to say it was you idiot, it was.
Speaker 1: I'm still confusing.
Speaker 3: Does he not do that?
Speaker 1: Oh? Wait, I got it now. No, I just had
Speaker 1: a worse moment. I was like, but it's it's not
Speaker 1: the same time for everybody. But that's not the way
Speaker 1: it's like you are when you I know, but I
Speaker 1: got confused. You said you would say. I was like,
Speaker 1: what say all in the same thing. So now I'm back.
Speaker 1: You're saying the universal clock, not the universal time. I'm
Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, Now here's the question, what time is
Speaker 1: it on Saturday? Have you space?
Speaker 3: Have you space? Oh?
Speaker 1: I don't know. You just ruined the moment.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, Perry and well what welcome home y'all?
Speaker 3: That conclude?
Speaker 2: Many boy?
Speaker 3: You know what he just did?
Speaker 1: He just about at the end of the show, why
Speaker 1: we can't ask.
Speaker 2: All or Gil.
Speaker 1: No, Katy went, I'm messing this up today. My bed.
Speaker 1: Y'all didn't sorry on that note, but I wasn't take off.
Speaker 3: We are taking off.
Speaker 1: We are ready for launch.
Speaker 2: This world shuston. We ain't got no problems.
Speaker 3: Welcome home, y'all.
Speaker 2: Native Lamb Pod is a production of iHeart Radio and
Speaker 2: partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from my
Speaker 2: heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
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