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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Devastated sisters here grizzly facts

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Speaker 1: in the missing Nikki Chang case now upgraded to murder.

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Speaker 1: But where's the body? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Mom's

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Speaker 1: Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road. Nicky's

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Speaker 1: case is a homicide investigation. There are several assaults on Niki.

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Speaker 1: A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior

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Speaker 1: to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.

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Speaker 1: She thought she was going to die. Where is NICKI?

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Speaker 1: A brutal assault at the hands of this guy some

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Speaker 1: time became us.

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Speaker 2: Nickie was the first role.

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Speaker 3: I would like to thank starts office w I for

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Speaker 3: getting involved any efforts to give my health, my wife

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Speaker 3: home safe.

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Speaker 2: Uh, we miss you.

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Speaker 1: He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.

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Speaker 4: I really know.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been in the public guys, and I've been

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Speaker 2: done very well with it.

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Speaker 3: Apologized every one, especially my children, my wife's family.

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Speaker 2: My name is as well. I'm just hearing support such

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Speaker 2: anything that I can do, I want to do that.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this Nancy.

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Speaker 5: A new trial date set for Tyler McCain, the man

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Speaker 5: charged with killing his wife, Nikki Chang Sale McCain. McCain

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Speaker 5: faces twelve charges and multiple special allegations, including one that

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Speaker 5: he killed his wife to prevent her from testifying against

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Speaker 5: him in court over domestic violence charges. The jury trial

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Speaker 5: was supposed to start November eighteenth, but McCain's lawyer, Michael Borges,

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Speaker 5: asked for more time given the mounds of documentation provided

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Speaker 5: by the prosecution. Shasta Superior Court Judge Adam b Ryan

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Speaker 5: set the trial date for March seventeenth, twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 5: A trial readiness hearing will be held on March eleventh

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Speaker 5: to ensure both parties are ready for the trial.

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Speaker 1: How did we get here? With me? Defense attorney Philip

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Speaker 1: Dubay Here he is pleading for his watch's attorney. He's like, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've got my thumb up my rerant. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to say.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's not as if he had

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Speaker 4: an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in

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Speaker 4: front of a camera as if he's doing a screen

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Speaker 4: test for an Academy Award film it's ridiculous. The guy

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Speaker 4: was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was

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Speaker 4: going to be asked. He didn't know what he was

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Speaker 4: going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and

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Speaker 4: have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything,

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Speaker 4: to say.

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Speaker 2: So to say that.

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Speaker 4: That implies guilt. Here we go again, Here we yes,

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Speaker 4: there she goes.

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Speaker 1: Say the rhapsody and all of a splendor and glory

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Speaker 1: of Phillip Debay trying to explain away a defendant, in

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Speaker 1: this case, a murder suspect, you know, not to Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 1: Try as he might, Philip Debay cannot explain away why

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Speaker 1: the husband of the missing mom, who she's had all

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Speaker 1: these children by him, he beat her to a pull

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Speaker 1: before I was about to testify against him when she

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Speaker 1: went missing. He stands up and goes, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead, his

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Speaker 1: children don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what

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Speaker 1: to say. You know what, when John David disappeared in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a big, huge Babies or US warehouse,

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Speaker 1: I knew what to say. I screamed, my baby's missing,

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Speaker 1: locked the doors. I screamed it over and over. It

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Speaker 1: sounded like a siren in my throat. I knew what

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Speaker 1: to say, Nancy.

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Speaker 6: He's unable to say anything because he has the share

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Speaker 6: of the prosecutor law enforcement standing next to him. And

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Speaker 6: what I mean by this is when he was alone

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Speaker 6: with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He

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Speaker 6: would sit on her back, he would beat her. He

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Speaker 6: put a towel over her face, poured water on it

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Speaker 6: to the point where she felt she was suffocating and

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Speaker 6: couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face.

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Speaker 6: She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and

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Speaker 6: lacerations on her face. And yet when he's in front

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Speaker 6: of law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he

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Speaker 6: is on home at home. So I see with these

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Speaker 6: types of men who are abusive, that they are very

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Speaker 6: powerful when they're alone with a small, fragile woman, but

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Speaker 6: when they're they come face to face with consequences, they.

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Speaker 1: Kind of collapse. Let's watch him implode again. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I could just watch this all night.

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Speaker 7: Watch I do really not say. I haven't been the

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Speaker 7: other guys, and I haven't done very well with it.

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Speaker 7: I apologize everyone, especially my children. My wife's saying mind

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Speaker 7: as well as well. I'm just hearing support. So anything

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Speaker 7: that I can do.

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Speaker 2: I want to do.

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Speaker 1: Apologizing for what that's certainly a Freudian slip. Apologizing for what?

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Speaker 1: Did anybody think to ask him that? Now you heard

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall describe me a horrible incident of abyse.

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Speaker 1: This is how it started.

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Speaker 8: Wednesday night, around eight thirty, Nicky Sale McCain is in

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Speaker 8: her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of thirteen years,

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Speaker 8: Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood for no

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Speaker 8: apparent reason. Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Niki,

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Speaker 8: holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling

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Speaker 8: what are you doing? Nicky says Tyler McCain's eyes are

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Speaker 8: glazed over. Nicky tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work,

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Speaker 8: and he holds her down and begins hitting her in

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Speaker 8: the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period,

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Speaker 8: with McCain binding Nicki's wrists and ankles together with tape,

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Speaker 8: putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly,

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Speaker 8: rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain sits on

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Speaker 8: her back, pulling her hair back, forcefully pulling her head back,

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Speaker 8: and telling her he's going to kill her.

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Speaker 1: This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call

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Speaker 1: it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault. But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: end there.

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Speaker 8: After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife,

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Speaker 8: the mother of his four children, hitting her about the

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Speaker 8: face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair,

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Speaker 8: and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and

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Speaker 8: goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings.

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Speaker 8: Nicki grabs a rope, runs outside and gets in her car.

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Speaker 8: Tyler McCain chases Nickie out of the house and jumps

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Speaker 8: onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop.

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Speaker 8: Ignoring his demands, Nikki flees to the safety of her

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Speaker 8: sister's home.

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Speaker 1: In reading What a Psycho, He jumps on her car

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Speaker 1: to stop her from leaving after he's been beating her

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Speaker 1: and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this time,

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Speaker 1: Dave mac joined us Crime Story's investigative reporter. This time

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Speaker 1: is different because she reports the violence. She reports to

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Speaker 1: the beatings and they get photos of the beatings.

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Speaker 9: Nancy.

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Speaker 8: In this particularly case, you know, we said, she runs

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Speaker 8: to her sister's house in reading, it's her sister that

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Speaker 8: lovingly says, we've got to take you to the hospital.

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Speaker 8: We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know,

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Speaker 8: for these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital,

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Speaker 8: she makes the call and a police officer arrives and

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Speaker 8: the tedtective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to

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Speaker 8: actually record exactly word for word Nikki sale McCain describing

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Speaker 8: this horrific attack. How long it took. It was a

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Speaker 8: twenty minute long interview with her talking, and it's just

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Speaker 8: it's shocking Nancy, how she described what she had just endured.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, what were you saying, Philip Dubay about how

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Speaker 1: this is not a screen test in Hollywood? I think

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Speaker 1: I know why he couldn't speak at that presser. All

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Speaker 1: this was rushing through his mind. If he has any

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Speaker 1: conscious at all, or maybe he's like a frog. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever held a frog and looked at it in

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Speaker 1: the face, It just he just blinks. It's cold blooded creature,

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Speaker 1: no emotions. Is that what's happening?

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Speaker 4: No, he does have an emotionally low IQ.

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Speaker 9: But I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Why, and I have no actual evidence of this, but

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Speaker 4: he reminds me of a classic meth addict. That's somebody

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Speaker 4: who flies off the handle after a lengthy fix and

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Speaker 4: when he's trying to chase the dragon and trying to

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Speaker 4: get another fix, he can't get it, so he acts

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Speaker 4: out in a fit of peek and rage. And I

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Speaker 4: have a feeling that this incident, if it's in fact true,

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Speaker 4: was drum fueled.

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Speaker 1: Put him up, you know, Debay, It's amazing how you

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Speaker 1: can do a hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood

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Speaker 1: screen test to he's a meth head. There's no evidence

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Speaker 1: at all that he's a meth head. But I guess

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Speaker 1: you're digging really deep to explain his behavior at the presser.

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Speaker 1: You know what technical legal term, screw his behavior at

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Speaker 1: the presser. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all,

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Speaker 1: why there's a preliminary hearing? I it confounds me. It's

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Speaker 1: the state's worst nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the state

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Speaker 1: can do an information just write up on a notepad

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Speaker 1: what the charges are going to be, or preferably a

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Speaker 1: grand jury that takes about five minutes. This preliminary hearing

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Speaker 1: requires the state to put up witnesses to prove pc

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Speaker 1: probable cause for the judge to bind the case over

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Speaker 1: or send it to the correct court. For instance, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't send a murder case to traffic court. It would

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Speaker 1: go to a felony superior court where only felonies are tried.

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Speaker 1: That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the

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Speaker 1: first swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses.

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Speaker 1: That's what's happening now.

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Speaker 8: Listen a preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will

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Speaker 8: go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicki

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Speaker 8: Chang Sale. McCain has brought many witnesses to the stand,

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Speaker 8: from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.

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Speaker 8: Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence

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Speaker 8: for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of

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Speaker 8: his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it

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Speaker 8: will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta

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Speaker 8: County history. As of today, Nicki is still missing and

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Speaker 8: presumed dead.

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Speaker 1: Well brace yourself, Shasta County. Other jurisdictions have had plenty

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Speaker 1: of no body murder cases, so you know what, get

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Speaker 1: with it or you won't be with it much longer.

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Speaker 1: Elected District Attorney. Joining us now two very special guests

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Speaker 1: who have been to hell and back seeking justice for

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Speaker 1: their sister Nicki with US, Kay Ford and Chloe Saley.

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Speaker 1: They have been enduring excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing. Sisters,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've just got to know,

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Speaker 1: off the top, how do you go home and actually

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Speaker 1: fall asleep after hearing this evidence? K forward, how do

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Speaker 1: you decompress after all of this?

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Speaker 10: Each day we've you know, our sauces have been very supportive,

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Speaker 10: and we're also busy with kids activities, so a lot

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Speaker 10: of times that's been very helpful to refocus our thoughts

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Speaker 10: a little bit. But it is that once we're laying down,

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Speaker 10: it's taking all the information in.

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Speaker 1: Is a lot Now Joining US Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations,

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Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. Fitzgibbons leads a team of highly specialized

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Speaker 1: investigators who focus and specialize in locating missing people all

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Speaker 1: around the world, and you can find him at Uspasecurity

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Speaker 1: dot Calm. Former marine and Iraqi war veteran translation. He's

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Speaker 1: seen it all, fitz Gibbons. You know what, here's the problem,

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Speaker 1: one of the problems with a no body case. As

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Speaker 1: Dubey has pointed out on many occasions, I've seen this

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Speaker 1: trick done in court where in the closing argument the

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Speaker 1: defense attorney will say, hey, is that the victim coming

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Speaker 1: in the door right now? And they wait to see

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Speaker 1: if the jury turns to look, and if they do,

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Speaker 1: the defense will argue, So you're not even convinced she's dead,

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Speaker 1: much less who did it? But don't you think by now,

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Speaker 1: fitz Gibbons, she would have.

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Speaker 11: Been found absolutely Nancy. And you know, this has been

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Speaker 11: well over a year that we've been looking for Nicki.

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Speaker 11: And what I'll tell you is, in this preliminary hearing,

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Speaker 11: the DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement

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Speaker 11: from various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case

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Speaker 11: against Tyler McCain and the case forensic case to prove

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Speaker 11: that there was in fact the murder that took place.

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Speaker 11: So these crucial things have happened. On top of that,

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Speaker 11: you have five members of McCain's friends and family that

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Speaker 11: have taken the witness stand and their stories have contradicted

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Speaker 11: statements that they've made to the police. So I think

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Speaker 11: things are going very well for the district attorney here

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Speaker 11: to get that probable cause from the judge.

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Speaker 8: Writing.

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Speaker 12: Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says, Nikki's sister Chloe Saley texted

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Speaker 12: with Nikki regularly and there was always a response until

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Speaker 12: May nineteenth. Family members talk with Niki on May eighteenth,

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Speaker 12: but on May nineteenth, she never answered a text from Chloe.

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Speaker 12: Nicki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and

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Speaker 12: McCain going so far as to point a gun directly

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Speaker 12: at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.

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Speaker 8: Yeahpanie Alisio Brito says he found He's pick up on

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Speaker 8: Highway thirty six the night of May twenty fifth. Shockingly,

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Speaker 8: the deputy says there was a strong odor, the smell

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Speaker 8: of death coming from the covered truck bed. The smell

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Speaker 8: of decomposing flesh coming from inside the truck bed is

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Speaker 8: coupled with a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also

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Speaker 8: in the truck bed a white sheet with bloodstains and

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Speaker 8: dark colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood

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Speaker 8: in the truck bed. And strands of dark hair found

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Speaker 8: underneath a piece of trim. The blood and hair belonging

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Speaker 8: to Nicky Salia McCain and during.

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Speaker 1: This preliminary hearing, including grizzly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has

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Speaker 1: been excruciating for Nicky's sisters. Straight back out to Chloe

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Speaker 1: and Kay Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment

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Speaker 1: in the preliminary hearing? I mean, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you are at all like me, but my first brush

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Speaker 1: with the law, the first time I had ever been

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Speaker 1: in a courtroom, was that my fiance's murder trial. A

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Speaker 1: lot of it I still can't remember, but the parts

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Speaker 1: I do remember, they changed my life forever and there's

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Speaker 1: no turning back after what happened in court. What has

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Speaker 1: been the most vivid moment in your mind in the

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Speaker 1: court room so far?

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Speaker 13: There are actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs

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Speaker 13: they played a recording of Nicki's voice about what happened

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Speaker 13: that night. That was really hard to hear because it

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Speaker 13: was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to

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Speaker 13: hear her voice for such a long time. And then

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Speaker 13: also just the evidence about how much blood was in

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Speaker 13: the back of that truck bed. That hit me really

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Speaker 13: hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then

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Speaker 13: was in the back of that truck and just you know,

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Speaker 13: when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder

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Speaker 13: and that they're never coming back again.

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Speaker 1: The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate

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Speaker 1: to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed?

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Speaker 13: I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever

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Speaker 13: they did to her, I think that she was placed

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Speaker 13: in the back of that truck.

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Speaker 1: But to die t K for Nikki's sister. Also, what

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Speaker 1: has been the most disturbing moment during the preliminary preliminary

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Speaker 1: hearing for you.

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Speaker 10: Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell

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Speaker 10: and kind of those details. She did such a good

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Speaker 10: job with being so professional and just very scientific with it.

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Speaker 10: But you know, just thinking of our sister in that

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Speaker 10: state was difficult to hear because you know, at the

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Speaker 10: end of the day, this this hearing has been about

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Speaker 10: decomposition of her body potentially, so those details were you know,

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Speaker 10: just kind of thinking that it's we're describing our sister.

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Speaker 14: That was pretty grizzly for me.

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Speaker 1: There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did

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Speaker 1: you learn, okay about the garage floor.

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Speaker 10: It sounded like a lot of activity happened, witness testimony

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Speaker 10: about looking like it had been cleaned. Also the blue

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Speaker 10: star light being used by the evidence technician indicating that

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Speaker 10: there was blood. They didn't they didn't specify it if

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Speaker 10: it was animal or human. But as far as I knew,

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Speaker 10: they weren't butchers, and they weren't, you know, they weren't

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Speaker 10: handling animals in the garage, So that that to me

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Speaker 10: definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene.

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Speaker 10: And and it's not a not a place that I

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Speaker 10: remember them cleaning a lot, So to have that the

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Speaker 10: garage cleaned, it's pretty telling for me.

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Speaker 1: When you refer to they, Okay, who are you talking about?

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Speaker 10: Well, the the witness testimonies so far, have you know,

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Speaker 10: indicated you know, the people living there, which would be

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Speaker 10: Tyler and may maybe someone who helped him, But so

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Speaker 10: far the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.

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Speaker 1: I got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe,

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Speaker 1: does he even look at you in the courtroom?

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Speaker 13: Chloe, No, he doesn't look anyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what about it, Kay, does he even meet

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Speaker 1: your gaze?

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Speaker 10: No, he for the most part has his head down

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Speaker 10: in his hands, and he hardly looks up even at

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Speaker 10: the witnesses. I did notice there was a witness last

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Speaker 10: week that he had his head up more than he

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Speaker 10: had with any other witnesses, and as well as when

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Speaker 10: they were displaying some pictures of his home, he did

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Speaker 10: look up at the projector screen during those pictures.

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Speaker 14: Other than that, no eye contact with us, Las Lever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole nother

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Speaker 1: thing if you're not beating someone less powerful than you,

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Speaker 1: much much smaller, a less cunning than you are. When

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Speaker 1: you're actually court with equals, it's a lot more difficult

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Speaker 1: to be a bully. And now joining US special guest

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, forensic certified blood Stained Pattern Analysts, Senior crime

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Speaker 1: analyst and death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst and author

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Speaker 1: of forensic science Applications to death and crime scene investigations,

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Speaker 1: and specifically author of bloodstain pattern analysis. Jeffrey Gentry, I

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Speaker 1: just want you to hear one more fact about the

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Speaker 1: blood pattern Listen.

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Speaker 12: During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put

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Speaker 12: up on a lift, where investigators discover blood pooled on

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Speaker 12: top of the fuel tank. Inspection reveals there was so

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Speaker 12: much blood some of it dripped down from the fuel tank.

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Speaker 12: On the passenger side of the truck, they found a

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Speaker 12: plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern Comfort whiskey.

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Speaker 1: Dear Lord and Peasant Crime stores with Nancy Grace that

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Speaker 1: mass quantity of blood Jeffrey Gentry can only mean one thing.

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Speaker 1: But any down in the street knows that. Give me

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Speaker 1: your analysis about what was found in the truck bed

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Speaker 1: and beyond.

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Speaker 9: These are all bad things, Nancy. So when you're working

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Speaker 9: a no body homicide case, you always have to consider

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Speaker 9: where the blood is found and then also the quantity

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Speaker 9: of blood that is found, because these are the things

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Speaker 9: that you're going to want to use evidence to convince

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Speaker 9: the jury that the person is dead even though there's

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Speaker 9: no body. So blood on bedsheets that's always a bad thing.

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Speaker 9: You would expect blood to be in bathrooms, kitchens, back

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Speaker 9: into sinks, things where blood might normally be found, but

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Speaker 9: you don't expect large quantities of blood to be saturated

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Speaker 9: into sheets, especially sheets that are tied up in knots.

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Speaker 9: That's one of the ways that we actually transport bodies

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Speaker 9: from crimes beings is you wrap them up in a

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Speaker 9: sheet you knotted up, then you put them inside of.

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Speaker 2: A body bag.

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Speaker 9: It makes it easier to carry a body.

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Speaker 8: So that is very bad when.

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Speaker 9: You're looking at a person being missing and then you're

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Speaker 9: finding blood strated into bed sheets, and then also the

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Speaker 9: quantity of blood that's being poured out of the truck

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Speaker 9: bed again, and you shouldn't have blood in the back

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Speaker 9: of the truck bed and you should absolutely not have

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Speaker 9: blood in sufficient quantities.

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Speaker 2: To pour out of trucks.

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Speaker 9: And then they touched on also the smell of decomposition.

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Speaker 9: That's the smell that I of course smelled many times

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Speaker 9: that thousands of death pass and it's something that you

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Speaker 9: don't forget others are smelling decomposition. Again, that's another piece

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Speaker 9: of evidence to suggest that this person is dead, even though.

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Speaker 1: You don't have a boll straight out to Dave Matt

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: what's happening in the preliminary hearing. Tyler McCain, Nicky's abusive

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Speaker 1: husband had a major outburst where he stands up, starts

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Speaker 1: screaming and cursing.

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Speaker 8: What happened, Well, in court, they showed pictures from the

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Speaker 8: first search of the house of Nicki and Tyler's house,

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Speaker 8: and in that first video shot you could tell that

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Speaker 8: the house is very messy. There weren't a lot of

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Speaker 8: pictures hanging up. But what he lost it over was

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Speaker 8: the pictures that were shown from the second visit, after

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Speaker 8: Nicki has been reported missing and the police go back

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Speaker 8: in and are searching the home again. This time they

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Speaker 8: find that the home is no longer messy. It's been

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Speaker 8: picked up and cleaned. It has been staged with family

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Speaker 8: photos now hanging on the walls. That's where he lost it, Nancy,

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Speaker 8: because they were pointing out that, hey, man, when we

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Speaker 8: came here the first time, right after she was reported missing,

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Speaker 8: none of this was going on. This place was trash,

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Speaker 8: But now look at it after she's gone, there's pictures

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Speaker 8: hanging on the walls. So that's why he lost it.

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Speaker 1: He stated Chloe that for a large portion of the

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Speaker 1: hearing he would sit or he sits with his head

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Speaker 1: down looking down. But isn't it true he had a

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Speaker 1: major outburst, yelling and cursing. Yes, he did.

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Speaker 13: It was when Cay mentioned it was when it was

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Speaker 13: pictures of his house and the evidence technician she had

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Speaker 13: mentioned that how the house had looked different from the

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Speaker 13: first raid versus the second raid, and she just noticed

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Speaker 13: that was unusual because when they went back the second

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Speaker 13: time for the raid, they noticed that the living room

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Speaker 13: was it was all cleaned up, it was very nice

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Speaker 13: and meet and put together, and there were family photos

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Speaker 13: hung up, and she just said she found that kind

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Speaker 13: of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word and

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Speaker 13: he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I believe it's exact words are along the lines up.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know why I'm even here. This is bulls.

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Speaker 1: This is bullshit. This is him standing up and yelling

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Speaker 1: and the judge had to call for a recess so

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Speaker 1: his lawyer could calm him down. I mean, kay, if

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Speaker 1: he would accho like that in open court in front

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Speaker 1: of a judge, what would he do when he is

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Speaker 1: alone with Nikki?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, the outburst is pretty telling, and it wasn't maybe

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Speaker 10: the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty telling

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Speaker 10: because he had been keeping his composure pretty well throughout

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Speaker 10: the hearings, So that outburst was definitely a surprise, and

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Speaker 10: it was, like Loue said, it was comparisons from the

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Speaker 10: first search or raid compared to.

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Speaker 14: The one they went to about nine ten months later.

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Speaker 10: And she commented, the evidence technician commented on what a

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Speaker 10: difference it was. It was a home was in disarray previously,

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Speaker 10: and then when she came back, it was, like Loue said,

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Speaker 10: nice and tidy with family.

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Speaker 14: Pictures all over the walls.

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Speaker 10: And yeah, his outburse was asking what was wrong with

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Speaker 10: having pictures of this family on the wall, and then

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Speaker 10: what you had said.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious. Bryan Fitzgibbons. I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But

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Speaker 1: at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki,

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Speaker 1: combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.

436
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, connect the dots here, right. We have a tremendous

437
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 11: amount of forensic analysis that's been done on this vehicle,

438
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 11: as testified by various members of law enforcement. That's undoubtedly

439
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 11: what led Shasta County just about a couple of months

440
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 11: ago to make the pronouncement that they believe that this

441
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 11: is now a murder case. So you know, I think

442
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 11: that there's sufficient evidence here to say that I want.

443
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: To talk about the DNA evidence. It's my understanding that

444
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: and Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong. That the

445
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: sheet found in the bed of the truck covered in

446
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: blood indicated by looking at the sheet that three of

447
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: the four corners had been tied in a knot. I

448
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: would argue, and Jeff gentry to you that they hitched

449
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: people McCain got to help him get rid of the evidence.

450
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: Each one took a corner of the sheet. Because DNA

451
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: from three separate people are in each corner of the

452
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: sheet where the knots have been tied, how does that work, Jeffrey.

453
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 9: That's exactly what you want to look at, is where

454
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 9: is the DNA on these sheets and who was involved?

455
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 9: So if you have a knot on every single corner,

456
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 9: that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved,

457
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 9: that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I

458
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 9: mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy.

459
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 9: I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab

460
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 9: a corner of the sheet and you transport them to

461
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 9: where they need to go, and all at that time

462
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 9: you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course

463
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 9: I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people who

464
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 9: most likely were not. And then if you're sweating and

465
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 9: you're doing something active, there's more of a chance that

466
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 9: you're going to transfer DA to whatever you're touching.

467
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: Straight out to Chloe and kay Ken, aither of you

468
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: tell me about the testimony on Louise Braha.

469
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 14: Yeah, Louise he started his testimony.

470
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 10: We only heard a little bit of it, but he

471
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 10: had been He had an ongoing relationship with Thinkie and

472
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 10: it sounds like it went back as far as.

473
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 14: About a year or so before she went missing.

474
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 10: And he very very calm, very seems like a very

475
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 10: nice gentleman. He said they had met at his place

476
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 10: of work, which was at a self phone store, and

477
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 10: they become friends. He helped them with their with their

478
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 10: celf phone service, and I think he noticed. I think

479
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 10: he kind of noticed NICKI needed help, and I think

480
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 10: he I think he felt bad for her. And I

481
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 10: think in that, with with how how calm his demeanor was,

482
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 10: with how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki

483
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 10: felt like this was someone she could turn to when

484
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 10: she needed it.

485
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: There is also Justin corn What do we know about

486
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: Justin's testimony. I felt like.

487
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 13: He was very nervous. I feel like maybe he might

488
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 13: have known more than he was letting on. But I

489
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 13: definitely I hope that he was being honest, but I

490
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 13: feel like he wasn't being as honest as because I

491
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 13: feel like he does know more.

492
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: Justin Karen lived in a trail or on the property.

493
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: That means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also,

494
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: they played a video of him talking to police and

495
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: in it. In this video that was played in court,

496
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: Karen says that he was asked by McCain a few

497
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: days after Nicky goes missing to help disappear the Chevy

498
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: Avalanche and whatever was inside of it, and they pointed

499
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: out that Tyler McCain is letting him live on the

500
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: property for free. Then he starts crying in the video

501
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: when Cobbs press him for information, saying his mom lived

502
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: with him, he didn't have anywhere to go if something

503
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: happened to him. I mean, that's what it sounds like.

504
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you

505
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: to describe that what happened.

506
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 10: It sounded like mister Karen is kind of in a

507
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 10: dependent situation with Tyler. He lives on the property, and

508
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 10: it does sound like he is pretty much living grand

509
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 10: for you know, and he was kind of a right

510
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 10: hand man for Tyler. He helps around the house on

511
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 10: the property, fixed cars whatever Tyler needed. And it does

512
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 10: sound like without Tyler's I guess graciousness to let him

513
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 10: live there, he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere

514
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 10: to park his trailer. And he did mention his mom

515
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 10: is not doing well and his mom is pretty dependent

516
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 10: on him to you know, provide a place live and

517
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 10: he does take care of him, so, you know, it

518
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 10: sounds like mister Karen, unfortunately, was just pitched in a corner.

519
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 10: I mean, he's when you're dependent on someone, it's hard

520
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 10: to say no when they when they need your help.

521
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: I understand that. But getting rid of a dead body

522
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: as a whole other can of worms, Okay, that's more

523
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice,

524
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more.

525
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: I'd be crying too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson.

526
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: That is the girlfriend, right.

527
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 13: They are no longer together, but they were dating.

528
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: At the time. What did she say? What was her testimony?

529
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 14: She did testify that on the night of.

530
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 10: Or May seventeenth into the early morning hours of the eighteenth,

531
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 10: she did hear some movement in the back of the

532
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 10: house and on the back porch, which is where the

533
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 10: master bedroom exits, and that's also where Nikki had parked

534
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 10: her car closer to the.

535
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 14: Master bedroom door. She said during those hours she did hear.

536
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 10: Some movement and including a thud towards the back porch

537
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 10: of the house in the rear of the truck in

538
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 10: that to me, sounded like the bed area of the truck.

539
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: Now I want to clarify, Felicia Nelson is Justin Karen's girlfriend,

540
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: not Tyler McKay's girlfriend. And she also testified she was

541
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: in the trailer and Justin Karen's trailer and it was

542
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: not parked very far from the McCain home at all,

543
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: and she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked.

544
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: She later described a thud heard in the early morning

545
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: hours May eighteen. May eighteen is the day Nikki goes missing,

546
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: so that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney, cross

547
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: examining all the witnesses. Yes, he was, Yes, and how

548
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: did that pan out? He was?

549
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 14: I feel like he was strategic.

550
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 10: He did try to poke holes in some of their

551
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 10: testimony or or and I don't know the crrec termology,

552
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 10: but almost sometimes you know, someone said it was ten minutes,

553
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 10: he might say, could you know, do you mean fifteen

554
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 10: minutes because you had said fifteen minutes before? Things like

555
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 10: that to kind of confuse as the person and make

556
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 10: them feel, you know, like maybe they didn't remember correctly.

557
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 14: But yeah, it's pretty crafty as far as you know,

558
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 14: the cross and.

559
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 10: Clarifying specific things that they had testified to.

560
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: Now, another point of Justin Kieren's testimony that I found

561
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: really interesting is that he stated he found Nicky's driver's

562
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch, and

563
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: that he gave them to Tyler McCain and at the

564
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not

565
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: burned or destroyed in any way. They were then later

566
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: the driver's license was later found burned in Tyler McCain's wallet.

567
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: Isn't that true? Yes? What can you tell me about

568
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: I was found in Tyler McCain's mother's home.

569
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 13: There was any comforter in their detached garage that had

570
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 13: a lot of burn marks on it, and them there

571
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 13: was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared to

572
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 13: be burned as well.

573
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong

574
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: to Niki? It was hard to tell because.

575
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 14: It wasn't a pile.

576
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 10: It looked denim like to me, but it could have

577
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 10: just been, you know, the the thread material.

578
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 14: But I did not specifically recognize the sweater.

579
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 10: But Nicki had a lot of clothes, so I wouldn't

580
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 10: recognize every piece that she had anyway.

581
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 13: And there was also a note that was found to

582
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 13: tell me about the note.

583
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: Okay, do you have it right?

584
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 13: Yeah?

585
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 14: It was in a bin.

586
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 10: It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage.

587
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 14: It was on a pink post it note.

588
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: And the odd thing is, throughout the search they.

589
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 10: Had found numerous just notes lying around Nicki and Tyler's home,

590
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 10: and this note happened to be in Jeanette's garage and

591
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 10: it read remember that feeling when you could be Jesus

592
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 10: for a day on drugs? Who wrote that It looks

593
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 10: like it could have been Tyler's handwriting, but.

594
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 14: They didn't. They didn't.

595
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: They didn't say, fine, how did you guys endure the

596
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: testimony about the discovery of the truck and what was

597
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 1: found in the truck bed?

598
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 13: That was probably one of the toughest things for me.

599
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 13: I just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me.

600
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 13: I just like clutching onto his hand because it was

601
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 13: just it was just a lot.

602
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: The deputy stated under oath there was a strong odor,

603
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed.

604
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a

605
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: white sheet with bloodstains and dark colored hair, and Nikki

606
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: had beautiful, long, dark hair. There are smears of dried

607
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: blood bud in the truck bed, and there's dark hair

608
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: found under a piece on the trim on the outside

609
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: of the truck. It is it has been definitively proven

610
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: that the blood and the hair belonged to your sister Nicki.

611
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: And my final question to you, kay Ford, when you

612
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: hear this technical evidence about blood and hair and a comparison,

613
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: a lab comparison proving that it's Nicky's, do you let

614
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: your mind go to how that blood got there and

615
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: how her hair ended up in the trim of the

616
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: foot of the truck.

617
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 10: So it's like I said, it's just grizzly to things

618
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 10: that that's what happened to her, you know, to even

619
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 10: kind of imagine it's.

620
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's it's.

621
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: Difficult specifically about Louis Philip Dubay, the witness. Now he's

622
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: saying he had a romantic relationship with Niki Chang. I

623
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: guess he is saying that now that his DNA is

624
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: on the sheet, right, he's saying that it is from

625
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: an earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the

626
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: crime lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus sperm, right,

627
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: So if his DNA is over in one of those

628
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: knots tied, he's going to be proven to be a

629
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: liar Debay exactly.

630
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 4: And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California,

631
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 4: in order to get that defense, you have to have

632
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 4: more than just motive means an opportunity for someone else

633
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: to have committed the crime.

634
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: There has to.

635
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 4: Be some other independent evidence linking that third party to

636
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 4: the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at

637
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,959
Speaker 4: the scene where the death purportedly occurred. That is enough

638
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 4: to get that third party culpability instruction, and particularly at

639
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 4: a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court

640
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 4: that the death was at the hands of somebody other

641
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 4: than the defendant. The other problem I think the case

642
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 4: has so far, we're not hearing that there was an

643
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 4: unsurvivable loss of life.

644
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: I find this really hard to believe, doctor Bethany Marshall.

645
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: Now that Niki Tang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing

646
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: about a sex affair. Is that just to conveniently explain

647
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: away why his DNA is on the shape he used

648
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: to transport her dead body? Nancy. Abuse victims do not

649
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: have affairs.

650
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 6: They are terrified to even smile at somebody in public.

651
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 14: If the abuser is looking at them.

652
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: The abuser questions, where did you have lunch?

653
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 14: Did you talk to somebody?

654
00:39:58,600 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: What did you say about them?

655
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 6: Users are pathologically selloss. So no, I have a hard

656
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 6: time believing that she would have risked her life by

657
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 6: having an affairs.

658
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: Nicky King.

659
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 3: The first office.

660
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: Getting involved, any efforts to.

661
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 3: Get home by my phone, crap, you miss your phone?

662
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

663
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 8: Ripley says it wouldn't start McCain put diesel in the

664
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 8: gas powered truck and it had rolled down a gradual slope.

665
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 8: Ripley says, Justin Karen asked McCain if there was anything

666
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 8: in the truck that needed to disappear, and did the

667
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 8: truck need to disappear? Both times McCain answered yes, that

668
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 8: if it's asked Ripley if he was offered amnesty for

669
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 8: his testimony, Ripley said he didn't need it because he

670
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 8: hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley says he met with his

671
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 8: nephew later that evening at his trailer on McCain's property

672
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 8: and told him he wanted nothing to do with whatever

673
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 8: was going on. He didn't know until the next day

674
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 8: the avalanche was reported missing until he saw it on

675
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 8: the news the next day.

676
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: Philip Dubay, defense attorney, how can the defense possibly fight

677
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: back against Ripley's testimony. Ripley says he asked the husband McCain,

678
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: is there anything in the truck we need to get

679
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: rid of? And McKain says yes. And he says, do

680
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain

681
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: says yes, What do you do with that? That's just

682
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.

683
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,959
Speaker 4: Well, that presupposes that you believed the witness. In order

684
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 4: for that to have any merit or any way, you

685
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 4: have to find that the testimony is credible. And what

686
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 4: do we know that you had other people who were

687
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 4: intimate with her, And I find it astonishing to suggest

688
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 4: that it could have only been mister McCain. Normally, if

689
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 4: there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the

690
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 4: fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on

691
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 4: that sheet, I don't care what anybody says when they're

692
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 4: on the stand. Forensics are the best eye witness debate.

693
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: The DNA is in the corners of the edges of

694
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: the sheet. They're clearly Daves mac where the sheet has

695
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: been nodded to help carry Nikki's body, explaining the DNA

696
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 1: found on the sheets, Dave mac Nancy.

697
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 8: When they got that sheet out, they were examining each

698
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 8: of those corners. As you mentioned, there are three knots

699
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 8: in this sheet. In the corners, they've got separate DNA

700
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 8: profiles from different individuals. In those knots, they're not all

701
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 8: the same, So you've got three different people leaving their

702
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 8: DNA on the knots that are tied in the sheep

703
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 8: that also has Nikky Salley McCain's blood and hair. So

704
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 8: and of course we've got her husband, his is all

705
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 8: over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned.

706
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 8: So it's the nots that were tied by these individuals

707
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 8: in the sheep. By the way, it was found in

708
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 8: the back of her truck that was sitting on the

709
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,959
Speaker 8: side of the road with a cover over the trunk bed.

710
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Jeffrey Gentry, blood spatter analyst, you would have a

711
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: field date with that. And did you hear Dubey trying

712
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: to tune up and state that there wasn't enough blood

713
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: to prove she's dead.

714
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 9: One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a

715
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 9: truck dead, There shouldn't be blood all over a sheet.

716
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 9: And then there definitely should not be enough blood in

717
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 9: body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is

718
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 9: very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a

719
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 9: person is not dead after finding all of that, you're

720
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:52,959
Speaker 9: absolutely wrong.

721
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: Question to you, Ryan, is Gibbons, the sisters have been

722
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing. Isn't it true

723
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: Brian that family members want desperately to believe their loved

724
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: one is out there and they can and will be found.

725
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: How do you break that to someone that they're never

726
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 1: going to be found.

727
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 11: Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when

728
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 11: this forensic evidence and the witness statements, but by the way,

729
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 11: lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased.

730
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 11: And this has got to be just a horrific experience

731
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 11: through this preliminary hearing for Nicky's family to sit through

732
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 11: listening to all this evidence brought before them.

733
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are

734
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: enduring it. I mean I only sat through a very

735
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: short portion when I testified at my fiancees murder trial.

736
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're

737
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony

738
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: about Nicki's hair and blood.

739
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 13: It's definitely difficult. I just remember, I have to do this.

740
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 13: I have to say this because I have to be

741
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 13: strong for Nicki's kids, because I want to know what

742
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 13: happened and I want to know what they did to her.

743
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 1: Joining me, kay Ford and Chloe Saley as difficult as

744
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 1: horrible as it is for them. They are enduring gut

745
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: wrenching and graphic testimony in court, and they are representing

746
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: their sister Niki, and it ain't over yet. Nicki. Sisters,

747
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. We wait as justice unfolds,

748
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: and now we remember an American hero, Officer Hunter simonsik

749
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: Kansas CITYPD, killed in the line of duty at age

750
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: twenty six, leaving behind heartbroken parents Ron and Christaine. American hero,

751
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: we honor Officer Hunter Simons. Thank you to our guests,

752
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: especially sisters Kay and Chloe. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye,

753
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: Frien