WEBVTT - This Is How the Food Industry Is Preparing For a Post-Ozempic World 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:18.800 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.919 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Blocks podcast. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.400 I'm Joe whysn't Thal and I'm Tracy Alloway. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.040 Tracy, we like to talk about snacks and drinks and 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.080 stuff on the show, and you know, it's kind of 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.239 just how that we're interested, But I actually think that, 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.239 like there's like a deeper fundamental reason by why we 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:39.519 keep coming around to this topic. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.000 Wait, it's not just because we like snacks. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.440 I mean, that is the deep, deep, deep reason. But 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.040 the other reason is, Ah, I kind of think I've 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.960 been thinking about this lately that like the proliferation of 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.680 different types of snack foods and beverages and energy drinks 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.000 which multiply like crazy and store aisles. It's like the 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.760 ultimate story of like capitalist success and like the consumer 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.679 economy that we just keep getting this like endless permutations 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.920 of like great flavors in different ways to consume these flavors. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.720 It's like the pinnacle of the consumption economy. 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:21.160 Okay, Well, I would say, I guess capitalism, Well, capitalism 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.600 has to have some upsides, and I guess a loaded 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.560 flavored Cheetos are one of them. That's fair I do 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.840 think what's interesting to me about this moment in snacks 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.240 is there seems to be sort of two things going on, 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.119 like two mega trends, the very early beginnings of two 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.240 mega trends. So one is the idea of what's going 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.720 to happen to snack food in a GLP one fueled world. 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.040 And we touched on this a little bit last year 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.680 when we spoke to James van Kielin and he was 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.680 talking about his ozembic and GLP one investment thesis. And 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.080 I really like speaking to him because it wasn't just 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.280 like all the companies that are making these drugs are 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.920 going to see their share prices absolutely surge. It was 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.680 also there are going to be these second order knock 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.360 on effects on some consumer companies. And you could see 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.000 that playing out a little bit last year. You can 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:22.000 certainly see it playing out now. I think almost every major, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.360 you know, food and beverage company that reported in the 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.680 most recent quarter had AGLP one or ozembic related question. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:32.960 And then I guess the other mega trend is just 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.880 this idea of companies having to become more and more 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.920 creative to also drive consumption. So you have to have 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.080 more flavors in order to grow your market share, to 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:47.280 keep people engaged and interested and posting pictures of your 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.560 food on TikTok or Instagram. 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.560 Or whatever totally, and you just see this play out. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.520 I don't know. This is why I go back, you know, 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.560 I think about those sort of famous or infamous and 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.560 maybe apocryphal things where it's like some Soviet leader came 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.800 to the US, it's a grocery store. It's like, Okay, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.720 capitalism is the answer. Maybe there was something, but it 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.040 really does feel like we're sort of at this moment 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.519 where these maybe almost two mega trends are in competition 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.880 with each other, right because there is this seemingly race 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.040 to provide more flavor and more variety and more versions 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.320 and special versions and stuff like that, and then the 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.440 sort of looming threat to the sort of traditional way 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.880 of doing business from the GLP ones Lego Zembic. So 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.480 there is never too much snack food and there's never 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.239 too much conversation about snack food. 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.880 Well, the other thing that I just remembered, I totally 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.480 agree you can never have enough snack food. But the 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.120 other thing was the conversation we had with Ryan Harlan 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.440 where he was talking about the technology that's now going 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.360 into producing these snack foods, and also AI nowadays. So 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.600 this idea that you can basically model a virtual manufacturing 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.920 line for a new flavor, you can use AI maybe 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.280 to come up with new flavors. So it seems like 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.080 all of foods is getting more sophisticated. And some of 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.200 it is, of course in response to good old fashioned 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.280 consumer demand give the customer what they want. But part 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.120 of it, also, I have to think, might be in 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.320 response to competition from GLP one and ozepic and the 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.880 idea that well, if we're going to eat less food overall, 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.600 then maybe the way to keep customers is to make 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.839 sure that food is really really interesting. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.960 Yeah good, I'm glad you brought up the Ryan Harlan 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.839 episode because right that was about the sort of supply 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.440 side innovations that allow companies like say A for you 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.039 Delay to try more limited run lines and move things 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.640 faster and get a you know, you have a theoretical 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.880 test flavor, you can make a chip faster anyway. So 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.800 that raises the question where does the flavor come in 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.560 the first place. When there is a new chili lime 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.080 or a new Durian flavored. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.120 Sto, are we going to Flavortown? 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:55.960 We're going to say we're going to We're going to 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.799 flavor Toown. I hadn't thought we're not. Who's the chef 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.400 that we're not talking to that chef? Well, we do 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.560 have the perfect guest because it's someone who is in 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.440 the business of great flavors. We're going to be speaking 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:12.040 with Barb Stucky. She's the chief innovation and marketing officer 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.800 at Madsen, which is a Silicon Valley based food and 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.640 beverage innovation company. She has written a lot about what 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.680 makes great flavors, and she has studied a lot about 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.960 this moment in flavor history. So, Barb, thank you so 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:26.800 much for coming on outlaws. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:28.440 Well, thank you for having me. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.919 What do you do the chief innovation and marketing officer 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.440 at Madson? What do you do in the flavor world? 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.240 Oh? What don't we do in the big flavor world? 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.360 So the company's been around for about forty seven years, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.640 and over the course of those decades, we have worked 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:50.800 in pretty much every food and beverage category that exists, 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.000 with the exception maybe a beer okay, but we work 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.680 on everything from baby food to alcoholic beverages to frozen 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:05.839 trace to confections, to dietary supplements. And we also do 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.720 work in the restaurant channel, so we work mainly for 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:15.120 national and global restaurant chains, but we help them identify 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.160 new menu categories and new menu items. So we are 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.640 really all over one hundred percent share of stomach is 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:23.400 how we like to sit. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.599 I like stomach share. I've never heard that. I've never 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.360 heard that one before, but that makes sense. 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.680 So one thing I was wondering is the basic premise 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.720 of this conversation. I mentioned gop one drugs earlier, and 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.520 this is something that has come up in various forms 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.040 on the podcast and also on various earnings calls. As 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.200 I mentioned, Is this something that's on your radar as 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.040 a chief innovation officer in the food industry. 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.440 Yes, absolutely, it's very much on our radar, and I'll 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.880 tell you how this happened. So you know, we work 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.720 in food and beverage. We are not in the pharmaceutical 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.359 and so we started getting some questions from our clients, 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:08.640 who ranged from some of the largest global CpG companies 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:15.760 to small founder funded startups, and they were asking questions 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.560 about these new drugs and what's going to happen and 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.120 should I be worried about this? And this was about 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.880 middle of twenty twenty three. So in the fourth quarter 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.800 of twenty twenty three, we decided that, because of our 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.720 position in the industry where we do work across companies 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.440 and we work across categories, that we were going to 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.120 educate ourselves and we were going to make ourselves as 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.280 smart as we can about this topic, and we were 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.320 going to then put forth the learnings that we gained 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.880 and share them with the industry. So we just did 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.360 that in a webinar format. It works like this, so 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.160 we handled it as we would do a client project. 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.960 So we started reading secondary resets that was out there. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.120 There was a great report from Morgan Stanley that enabled 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.280 some of our learnings. And then we have a consumer 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.680 panel at Matson, So these are just consumers who have 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.680 been willing to give us their feedback on new ideas 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.960 and products, and we surveyed the panel to see if 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.960 anyone in our panel was on ozembic or some of 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:30.560 the other medicines we call them aom's anti obesity medications, 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.720 and we found out that there was about one hundred 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.640 and twenty five people who were either on the drugs 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.880 or had been on the drugs. So all of a sudden, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.080 now we've got a patient population that we can talk 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:46.160 to to understand more. So we started doing that. We 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.760 put a survey in front of those consumers and got 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.920 to learn a little bit about what they were experiencing 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.680 and how things were changing for them. We also talked 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.720 to medical practitioners, so we talked to doctors, we talked 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:04.280 to practitioners, we talked to people who were prescribing the AOMs. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.920 And then we did a lot of work with our 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:15.520 proprietary AI models to talk to AI personas to see 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.280 what was what was resonating with them, and that was 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.160 super interesting as well. And then the last thing we did, 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.680 which I can tell you more about, is we created 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:32.719 some new food and beverage concepts, some new ideas. They 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:37.240 ranged from beverages to snacks to meals, and we tested 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:42.080 those ideas with our patient panel of humans. I should 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.600 say we did test them with humans, not our AI, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.440 which we can do, but we didn't do. So we 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.720 have so much data, so much to share. 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.840 So let's start with some of that before we get 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.720 to the new concepts. What did the one hundred or 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.640 so people in your panel who are on the AOMs 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.520 tell you about their experience and how changed their relationship 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:02.640 with food and beverages. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.880 Yeah, it's a great question. And just to clarify, our 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.000 sample size ended up being about seventy five Okay, so 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.320 seventy five those patients, so some of them dropped off. 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.480 But what we heard from patients is that most of them, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:23.120 the vast majority of them, were extremely satisfied or positive 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.960 with their experience on the drugs. And this is interesting 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.679 because many of them reported having side effects. It just 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.480 goes to show that it's so hard to lose weight 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:39.520 through typical strategies, you know, a combination of diet and exercise. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.959 Some of our panelists had even had previous weight loss 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:49.360 surgery for example, but other interventions. And they were also 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.559 just really pleased with these drugs as giving them success 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.000 that they were unable to have or unable to sustain 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.559 using other methods. So that was really interesting to us. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.280 So it does seem that these things are these drugs 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.200 are working incredibly wealth for people, not everyone. A lot 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:16.160 of the side effects are continual and a small number 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.440 of people do have them, but you know, they can 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.640 be really unpleasant in terms of GI. And one of 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:27.400 the ways that these drugs work is that it's hormonal. 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:33.120 But they also happened to slow your your gastric emptying, 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.920 meaning the food stays in your stomach longer and so 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.880 you feel full longer, which also happens when you have 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.240 weight loss surgery, your stomach is actually reduced in size, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.200 but with these drugs, it's not reduced in size, but 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.559 it feels that way because the food stays in there longer, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:58.440 and so people really really cannot overeat. They told us 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:03.720 really horrific story of overeating and getting sick because it 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.079 was just nauseating. Also, there are problems at the other 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.280 end of the GI track two. A lot of people 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:15.840 reported constipation or diarrhea other things like that. So these 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.640 are not without their challenges and not without their side effects. 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.199 But for the vast majority of people, they were extremely 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:27.400 happy and we're losing significant amounts of weight. The other 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.800 thing is that we did notice in our survey that 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.120 a lot of people were having some pretty significant changes 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.239 in their food and beverage behavior, and that was ultimately 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.400 our goal for this study. 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.720 So what did you see in terms of food preference? 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.200 Because when I go on a diet and I restrict calories, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.600 I usually end up this is terrible, this is not 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.080 how you should diet. But I usually end up replacing 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.960 healthy meals with like Oreo cookies, and I just eat 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.640 like three Oreo cookies instead of having a larger meal. 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.240 Does that hold out for ozembic people as well, or 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.560 people who are on ozembic and the other AOMs. Do 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.560 they still eat junk food just maybe less of it, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.080 or do we see a change in their food preferences. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.440 You know, it definitely depends on the person. But more 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.280 people than not did say that all of a sudden 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:28.000 they were not craving things like sugary sodas or salty 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.960 snacks or animal proteins. So, especially for some reason, beef, 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.160 people were really turned off by the idea of beef, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.319 and so they were instead sort of veering in the 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:46.520 direction of fruits and vegetables, things that were lighter in 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.839 flavor and lighter on the stomach. So you know, they 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:55.640 were really trying to satisfy those cravings. We even we 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.480 did some one on one video interviews, and I remember 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.520 distinctly this one went talking about how, you know, I 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:07.880 used to crave chips and now I crave cucumbers and parrots, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:12.880 and she said the flavor of a crisp cucumber is 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:18.920 just so tantalizing, And I'm thinking to myself, while tantalizing cucumber, 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:24.000 I mean, that is a significant change in cravings and 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.320 you know, and the resulting caloric intake. So it does 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:34.840 seem to be doing something akin to teaching people how 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.680 to eat healthy, which is crazy that a drug can 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.960 do this, but it's that seems to be the case 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:41.800 with a lot of people. 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.640 It's pretty incredible. But it also has an interesting implication 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:51.600 because I think like sort of one cynical expectation is that, Okay, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.560 people don't want to eat salty chips as much anymore, 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.840 so then the food industry is going to respond by, oh, well, 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.560 we're just going to put even more salt in the 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.440 chips and will make it even more tantalizing and it'll 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.000 make it even harder for people to resist. But it 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.960 sounds like from your research that that will just make 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.920 the end products even more repellent to people. 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:18.240 I think you're absolutely right. Yes, we heard people really 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.400 really just turning their nose up at certain foods that 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.400 they used to love and it's really odd, but I 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.000 do think that's what would happen. So, you know, a 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.320 lot of them were they were cutting from their diet 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.920 in the neighborhood of a thousand calories a day, Well, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.840 that's crazy, Like for most people, that's half of the calories, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.760 are a third of the calories that you're consuming. So 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.160 you know, that results in you having to make decisions 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:56.240 about what is going to be my calorie consumption based 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.680 on the fact that it is so much less. I'm 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.000 really to make those calories count. And so you know, 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.160 that just gets at the fact that you know, I 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.960 think you said at the beginning, like people want interesting food, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.680 people want delicious food, in the case of the folks 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.840 that we heard from, just a lot less of it. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.200 Well, where does that leave, say a potato chip maker, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:27.200 because it seems like if people aren't craving salty food anymore, 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.280 it seems unlikely that a maker of potato chips is 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.640 going to suddenly substitute their offerings with something like cucumbers. 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.360 Absolutely, you're totally right. I cannot imagine that happening. Of course, 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.360 it takes a different distribution channel and different buyers in 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.400 the grocery store and yeah, that's not going to happen. 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.120 But what you know, we're in the innovation business, and 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.440 so what you could see potentially happening is that these 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:58.160 makers of chips, for example, what would create portion sizes 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.640 that are much smaller. Perhaps instead of increasing the sodium, 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:07.560 they reduce the sodium. Perhaps they do chips that have 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:14.120 some vegetables blended into their tortilla chip dough something like that, 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.800 to give it a little bit more fiber, to help 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.480 with the gi stuff, to give it a little more 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.520 nutrient density. So, you know, this could be an opportunity 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.040 for the food and beverage industry to really reset things 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.439 and reset expectations. You know, if you think back to 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.359 the size of a snack bag thirty years ago, or 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.520 the size of a hamburger thirty years ago, or the 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.560 size of a bagel, you know, they were all so 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.000 much smaller. So this is an opportunity for us to 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.920 go back to those sizes as expectations and really help 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.480 the entire country eat better. I don't know if that's 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.920 going to happen. Maybe it's a little pie in the sky, 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.040 but these are the kinds of things we were trying 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.600 to educate the end a story about because there are 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:10.920 some new opportunities. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.760 So you mentioned coming up with some new food concepts 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.399 or flavor concepts and actually serving them to your non 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.800 AI panelists. What are you cooking up there and what 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:32.439 resonated with people? 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.600 Okay, well, I have twenty two products that we came 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.439 up with and tested. Not all of them scored well. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.600 For example, the one that we created that was about 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:52.399 trying to tame nausea with ginger. That one bomb bomb Okay, 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.879 totally good. 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.800 To bomb early before a nationwide launch, I guess. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.320 So, yeah, yes, that is so true that that's why 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.760 we do these kinds of us. Yeah. So essentially what 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.840 we were doing is writing these concepts for the AOM user. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.840 So one of the top score it, we'll give you 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.600 two or three of the top scoring ideas. So one 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.639 of them was a brownie cube. So this idea was 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:22.240 ready to eat brownie. It's about the size of a nickel, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:27.280 but in cube shape, and it's baked with extra protein added. 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.520 It's got a little bit of fiber in it from 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:34.800 the cocoa, and it's basically kind of a one byte indulgence. 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.680 And that really resonated. I think again, because when your 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.080 gastric emptying thing is slowing down. You really just don't 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.159 have room to eat a whole brownie. 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:50.320 I suppose a nickel sized or byte sized brownie kind 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.120 of preserves customer choice in some ways. So if you're 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.600 on an AOM of some sort and you're not that hungry, 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.720 you can have one byte of the brownie. But if 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.400 you are not on AOMs and you are very hungry, 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.240 you can, you can. You'll probably just eat like a 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:07.400 bag full of them, right. 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.760 Well, yes, And you know what that brings up a 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.800 really important point, which was that all the things that 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.359 rose to the top of our test were things that 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.359 the whole family could enjoy, and that was an important 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.760 criteria for the you know, mostly women, it's mostly women 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.040 on these because they didn't want to buy things and 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.439 bring them into the hot household that would just for 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.000 them that their kids wouldn't eat, their husband wouldn't eat, 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.600 their partners wouldn't eat. So we saw other things like 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.359 these chicken strips that are grilled chicken breast that are 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.520 cut into strips and then individually wrapped, and so you 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.120 could imagine, you know, you're trying to get your protein, 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.240 but you don't want to eat a whole chicken breast 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.000 because that's just way too much. So that was our 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.320 number two scoring concept, and it just makes so much 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.520 sense because if you can't eat a whole chicken breask, 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.120 you really probably don't want to cook one and then 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.080 cut it up yourself. So this was a refrigerated product 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:06.720 that you could you could take it out of the 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.840 refrigerator and snack on it cold, or heat it up 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.680 and put it in a tortilla. So things like that, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:18.400 you know, those represent some different format options, different packaging options, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.760 portion sizes, and then you know, we have a whole 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:26.400 other list of stuff that seem to resonate some more 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:26.919 than others. 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.879 So it sounds like a lot of the innovation that 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.600 you've worked on or that we could see coming, as 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.520 you mentioned, sort of has to do with maybe foods 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:41.240 that we're familiar with, but that in rethinking the distribution, 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.080 and I have to say, I would snack on the 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.720 grilled chicken strip. I would be down for that, And 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:47.480 having like a big bag of those in my house, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.159 that actually sounds like a I would snack on that. 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.640 You mentioned that the ginger infused foods sort of bombed. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:59.960 Were there any breakthroughs in terms of flavors or somehow 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:04.640 recreating the sensation of a cucumber or a carrot, where 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.240 the breakthrough is not in the shape or distribution of 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.000 an existing thing, but in like some brand new type 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.520 of flavor that really worked on the ozompic users, the 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:14.800 AOM users. 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:20.280 Yeah, you know, we tested a protein beverage. So this 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:25.639 was a line of clear beverages with protein added. And 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:30.280 that's that's a highly technical, very difficult challenge, having done 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:35.480 it myself, Yeah, that one is a high degree of difficulty, 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.800 let's just say that. But we tested this line of 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.000 three and I think one of our flavors was cucumber 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:45.560 or a cucumber line, and that actually resonated pretty well. 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.679 The idea being that if you think about protein drinks 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:56.480 on the market, they're usually chocolate, strawberry, really thick, they're 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:01.600 very satiating. And the idea of using the clear protein 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.840 in these lighter cucumber flavors and you know, other light 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:11.919 citrus flavors was that you would appeal to the more hydrating, 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:18.359 refreshing kind of experience but still get some protein. So yeah, 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.880 I think that that is actually something that would resonate 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.960 just because of the flavor because it's not chocolate or 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.800 you know, even though number one scoring product was was brownies. 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:34.480 So you said something else that made me think that 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:39.520 the most the best, the best scoring products really were 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.800 very familiar. And I think that that just gets a 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:48.240 consumer behavior around food, because we'd like to say consumers 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:52.280 want a foot in the familiar and taking one step 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.640 out of the familiar to do to buy something really 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:59.880 innovative is okay, but to take that second step out 0:23:59.880 --> 0:24:04.679 of the familiar is really disorienting. And so you know, 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:10.199 if you're on a weight loss regimen and your body 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:14.560 is doing things differently, it makes sense that the familiar 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:16.000 stuff would score really well. 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:20.480 Just building on this point, i'd love to hear from 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:24.320 you what the sort of evolution of a new food 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.520 product or flavor actually is like from start to finish. 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:33.400 Do people come up with ideas for completely brand, new, 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:36.560 foreign things and build them out from there or is 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.320 it more taking something that already exists and trying to 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:43.080 improve on it in some way? Could you maybe walk 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:44.120 us through that process. 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.280 The answer is yes, all of the above. So we 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:55.439 have worked on things as novel as creating a roast 0:24:55.560 --> 0:25:02.119 and ground coffee without coffee beans, and that product is 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:03.360