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Speaker 1: Originals.

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Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original. This story might be hard

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Speaker 2: to hear. There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but

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Speaker 2: we think it's important not to gloss over the reality

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Speaker 2: of what happened to Libby Caswell. Please take care while listening.

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Speaker 2: I've read a few autopsy reports over the years, and

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Speaker 2: it's always a peculiar, disconcerting experience. They're written in dispassionate

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Speaker 2: clinical language and yet are oddly intimate. For example, in

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Speaker 2: Libby's nine page report, we learned that her right lung

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Speaker 2: weighed ten grams more than her left. Her teeth were

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Speaker 2: in good repair and appeared healthy. Old acne scars were

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Speaker 2: visible on her forehead. Libby's autopsy was performed by doctor

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Speaker 2: Robert Pyitek of the Jackson County Medical Examiner's Office the

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Speaker 2: day after her body was discovered at the sports stadium

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Speaker 2: in She still had Devon's belt around her neck. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Pytak noted that Libby's neck was completely encircled with a

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Speaker 2: mark called a ligature furrow, apparently caused by the belt

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Speaker 2: pressing into her skin. He also documented a number of

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Speaker 2: other bruises and abrasions on Libby's throat, chest, back, and hands.

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Speaker 2: The opinion section of the report is short and concise.

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Speaker 2: Libby died of asphyxia a lack of oxygen, but doctor

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Speaker 2: Pytak could not determine if Libby had hanged herself or

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Speaker 2: was strangled by someone else, and so he left the

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Speaker 2: manner of death undetermined. There's one more page of the autopsy,

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Speaker 2: the results of Libby's post mortem toxicology report. Libby's blood

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Speaker 2: was tested for certain substances like cocaine, which was negative,

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Speaker 2: and alcohol, which was negligible. But one drug did show

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Speaker 2: up at the time of her death. Libby had a

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Speaker 2: high level of methamphetamine in her body.

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Speaker 1: You know, she was found with a toxing amount of

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Speaker 1: math in her system, and so I struggled with that

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Speaker 1: when I got that report.

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Speaker 2: Meth didn't literally kill Libby, but as I discovered reporting

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Speaker 2: the story, it was a big part of her undoing

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Speaker 2: as a fun through wine.

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Speaker 1: Sod is She.

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Speaker 2: From iHeart Podcasts. I'm Melissa Jelson, and this is what

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Speaker 2: happened to Libby Caswell.

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Speaker 3: When I walked past, I saw him roll her to

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Speaker 3: the side and just punch your really hard in the thigh.

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Speaker 3: I was like, kind of like what I did?

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Speaker 2: He just hit her, but just the rest a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Did something bad happened that thanks kind of out of control?

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Speaker 5: No, sir, positive that promise.

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Speaker 1: He would laugh and say that you're never going to

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Speaker 1: catch me. I am too smart for them, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: he'd just run off.

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Speaker 6: You know, I couldn't be there could be a thousand.

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Speaker 7: Maybe I should, but that didn't. What happened.

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Speaker 2: A chapter four talk.

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Speaker 1: I knew you know a lot about marijuana growing up,

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Speaker 1: but I'd never heard about meth amphetamine because we didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Cindy Libby's mom isn't what I would call a partier.

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Speaker 2: She rarely drinks, doesn't smoke cigarettes, and would rather watch

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Speaker 2: TV than stay out late. She told me that recently

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Speaker 2: she began using legal marijuana edibles to help with the

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Speaker 2: dread and anxiety that surfaces when she tries to sleep

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Speaker 2: at night. But although Cindy didn't have any personal experience

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Speaker 2: with meth a highly addictive drug that can be made

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Speaker 2: with household chemicals. The town she raised her family and

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Speaker 2: did in the nineteen nineties, Around the same time Cindy

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Speaker 2: started having kids, Missouri and Independence in particular became a

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Speaker 2: hotbed of meth production. In nineteen ninety six, alone, authorities

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Speaker 2: busted seventy five meth labs in Dependence, the largest number

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Speaker 2: per capita in the nation. This prompted the Christian Science

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Speaker 2: Monitor to dub it the quote meth capital of the

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Speaker 2: United States. Rolling Stone later ran a feature story on

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Speaker 2: Independence called Postcards from Tweakville that solidified its reputation as

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Speaker 2: a meth haven. Fox News ran a national story that

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Speaker 2: shined the spotlight on meth and the Independence Police Department.

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Speaker 2: How bad is the myth problem an Independence, Missouri?

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Speaker 7: And it's bad.

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Speaker 8: We've got a major epidemic.

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Speaker 2: For the next decade or so, meth continued to dominate

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Speaker 2: local headlines and shape the workings of the police.

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Speaker 9: Every night, Independence police make at least three arrests related

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Speaker 9: to methews.

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Speaker 2: They wont ipd solicited help from the community, and positioned

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Speaker 2: itself as the best solution to the problem.

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Speaker 5: To stop the.

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Speaker 9: Cycle, Independence police are asking residents and business owners to

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Speaker 9: call police about suspicious drug activity.

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Speaker 2: And while the labs were mostly busted by the time

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Speaker 2: Libby and Devon were in high school, the town was

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Speaker 2: still sometimes disparagingly referred to as meth dependents, and the

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Speaker 2: drug it was still pretty easy to find. I don't

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Speaker 2: know for sure what year Libby first tried meth, but

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Speaker 2: by her friend's accounts, it took place in high school

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Speaker 2: sometime after Zave was born, and it was her boyfriend

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Speaker 2: Devin who introduced her to the drug.

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Speaker 10: He had started dabbling and drug like harder drugs than

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Speaker 10: what any seventeen year old s could be doing.

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Speaker 2: Holly, Libby's high school friend.

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Speaker 8: It wasn't just the.

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Speaker 10: Weed that he was, you know, smoking, and I think

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Speaker 10: that's whenever he had actually started doing meth, and then

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Speaker 10: he got Libby on it. She said that, you know,

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Speaker 10: he kind of peer pressured her into trying it because

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Speaker 10: they were in front of you know, a bunch of

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Speaker 10: head spreads.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I didn't think she knew about alcohol by

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Speaker 6: the time she met him, and then she knew. She

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Speaker 6: met him, she knew every drug, every pill, every drink everything.

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Speaker 2: Nathan was childhood friends with Libby and later became friends

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Speaker 2: with Devin too. He told me they would all sometimes

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Speaker 2: get high on meth together.

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Speaker 6: For Libby, I think it just made her more sociable.

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Speaker 6: I think that we both always agreed that we liked

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Speaker 6: the rush of it. Russia gave us. That's what I like,

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Speaker 6: not that, And I like the fact that like whenever

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Speaker 6: I did it, you know, I you know, could go

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Speaker 6: in public, I could, I could basically accomplish anythings what

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Speaker 6: it made me feel like.

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Speaker 2: As Nathan saw it, Libby used meth to boost her

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Speaker 2: confidence and maybe also to fit into Devon's social circle.

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Speaker 2: This new part of her life. She kept it secret

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Speaker 2: from her family and even many of her close friends.

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Speaker 2: Here's Holly again.

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Speaker 10: She didn't tell me about the first time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she just kind of goes to me for

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Speaker 2: a while.

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Speaker 10: I knew she was doing something, but she just wouldn't

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Speaker 10: admit it to me at first. And she just finally

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Speaker 10: broke down one day and she's like, I don't know

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Speaker 10: what to do anymore.

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Speaker 2: And here's where I believe Libby's life split in two,

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Speaker 2: the bright social side that she presented to her friends

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Speaker 2: and family and the darker, drug consumed side that she

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Speaker 2: kept hidden. But with a drug like meth, it's not

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Speaker 2: so easy to conceal its effects from those who really

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Speaker 2: know you, and her family soon began to suspect something

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Speaker 2: was going on. Here's Natalie, her younger sister.

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Speaker 3: Her whole face would just completely change and she would

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Speaker 3: be like just not herself. She was always like this

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Speaker 3: really bubbly, happy, talkative person, and then when we would

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Speaker 3: go see her, she was just like depressed and angry

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Speaker 3: and irritable, and so it was like a completely different person.

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Speaker 3: And that's how we started to recognize when she was

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Speaker 3: on and off.

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Speaker 2: Cindy started to notice something was wrong when Libby, already

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Speaker 2: lean rapidly lost a lot of wait.

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Speaker 1: I said, Libby, I'm so worried about you. You look

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Speaker 1: like a skeleton. You know, are you eating? What's happening?

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Speaker 2: And what was it like for you to see your

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Speaker 2: daughter in that situation?

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Speaker 10: It was bad.

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Speaker 1: It was just devastating. I would leave here and cry.

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Speaker 2: Libby and Devon would use together on and off again

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Speaker 2: from around the age of seventeen until Libby's death at

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Speaker 2: twenty one. Their drug use pushed their relationship even more

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Speaker 2: into the shadows, away from others. Probing eyes and Libby's

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Speaker 2: friends tell me, the more Devin used drugs, the more

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Speaker 2: violent he became.

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Speaker 8: She told me that when they would get in fights

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Speaker 8: and it would be really bad. He would push her,

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Speaker 8: hold her down and choke her, and.

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Speaker 2: He would do it in front of their kids.

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Speaker 6: When he was on drugs, he was really cool. That's

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Speaker 6: how we quit. But then you know, he was doing

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Speaker 6: drugs and he was one of those people that stayed

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Speaker 6: up for like a week, and when you do that,

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Speaker 6: you get crazy, you know. So he was always paranoid.

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Speaker 6: He's always angry, violent. He really went off the rails

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Speaker 6: that met. Like some people go off the rails, some

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Speaker 6: people don't.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of alarmist rhetoric around meth users that

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Speaker 2: they're unhinged, psychotic, and deeply dangerous. Take this Fox News

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Speaker 2: clip from the nineties and where meth goes death violence.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about a drug.

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Speaker 6: That induces violent behavior, that creates violence in people who

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Speaker 6: never have been violent, wouldn't think of being violent.

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Speaker 2: This is still a common stereotype about people who use

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Speaker 2: meth and other drugs too, that they are more likely

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Speaker 2: to be violent, and specifically violent towards the people closest

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Speaker 2: to them.

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Speaker 11: Not everyone who abuses substance is a domestic balance offender.

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Speaker 11: I think the important thing to remembers it doesn't cause

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Speaker 11: the abuse, but it definitely complicates abuse.

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Speaker 2: Mariann Metheni is the CEO of the Hope House, a

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Speaker 2: domestic violence agency that covers the Kansas City area, including Independence.

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Speaker 2: She has seen firsthand the complicated, interconnected relationship between drugs

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Speaker 2: and domestic violence, how drugs can hypercharge abuse that.

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Speaker 11: Can take a situation into a more violent level much

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Speaker 11: more quickly when someone is intoxicated.

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Speaker 2: And how drug use can isolate victims even further.

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Speaker 11: I think where it gets difficult and it's really hard

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Speaker 11: for people to understand is that it is an unpallenge

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Speaker 11: for the victim and to also be someone who uses substances.

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Speaker 11: It can be a way to deal with what's going

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Speaker 11: on and trying to escape for just a little while,

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Speaker 11: like my world is falling apart, it's easier for me

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Speaker 11: to use. The other piece is that it's often used

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Speaker 11: as a control mechanism by the abuser as well. But

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Speaker 11: it's not uncommon for an abuser to force someone to

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Speaker 11: use at the same time that they're using, and then

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Speaker 11: becoming addicted becomes just part of that whole relationship.

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Speaker 2: Mathemei has observed how abusers often blame drugs and alcohol

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Speaker 2: for their own bad behavior. I'm not abusive, I was

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Speaker 2: just high. Victims may desperately want to believe this narrative too.

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Speaker 11: Because it's easier in your mind to rationalize this atrocity

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Speaker 11: of behaviors that's happening to you, because otherwise you have

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Speaker 11: to look at this person and say, but you really

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Speaker 11: don't care about me if you're going to abuse me,

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Speaker 11: Because the reality is a person would have been doing

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Speaker 11: those things to you even if they were sober, because

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Speaker 11: we know that substances don't cause it.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to give the impression that drug used

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Speaker 2: defined Libby's life. She quit using on a number of

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Speaker 2: occasions and had long prosperous spells where she was clean

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Speaker 2: and sober. These periods, they tended to coincide with times

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Speaker 2: when she broke.

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Speaker 12: Up with Devon, and that's whenever Libby was really her

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Speaker 12: best is when Devin wasn't around. She could see her

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Speaker 12: full potential, but.

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Speaker 2: Inevitably he would re enter the picture. Libby's friends Autumna

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Speaker 2: Mariah explained to me what that cycle looks like.

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Speaker 12: Libby was almost like a dog on a leash, like

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Speaker 12: she could only get so far from Devon before here

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Speaker 12: comes Devon or here comes Devin's call.

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Speaker 8: He would come back when he was sober.

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Speaker 12: He would convince everybody. He's gonna do the right thing,

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Speaker 12: you know, and treat her right, and treat Zab right.

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Speaker 8: He would love bomb her and give her everything, tell

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Speaker 8: her whatever she wanted, and all she wanted was to

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Speaker 8: be a family with the father of her child, and

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Speaker 8: he would promise her that.

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Speaker 12: That's pretty much how Libby always got looped back into

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Speaker 12: the cycle, as how he claimed he'd be a good

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Speaker 12: dad this time around. You know, Zab needs a dad.

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Speaker 12: Blah blah blah blah blah, the whole good dad game.

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Speaker 8: Sometimes they would be good for months. He wouldn't hurt her,

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Speaker 8: they wouldn't use drugs, they would be clean and happy

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Speaker 8: and healthy. And then the newness and him trying starts.

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Speaker 13: To wear off, and he would get mean again, and

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Speaker 13: then he would go out and use drugs, and then

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Speaker 13: she would end up using as well, because I mean,

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Speaker 13: her partner's out there doing everything and being abusive to her.

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Speaker 2: And how many times you estimate that this happened while

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Speaker 2: you knew her.

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Speaker 8: In the couple of years, probably like three or four.

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Speaker 6: I know she always felt like when.

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Speaker 8: She had nothing less like that's what she had was

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Speaker 8: him and drugs, and she would just keep keep going

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Speaker 8: back until she got her feet under her again, and

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Speaker 8: she'd kick him and kick the drugs and be happy

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Speaker 8: and healthy and sober by herself.

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Speaker 14: Here, Menny, Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you,

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Speaker 14: Happy birthday year.

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Speaker 12: Save.

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Speaker 15: Half birthday to you.

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Speaker 14: Flow your candles, load a candle fire.

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Speaker 13: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you want a piece of the Batman cake.

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Speaker 14: Cake?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 14: Okay, okay, I'm gonna give you some hand on.

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Speaker 2: It's the beginning of May twenty seventeen. Zave is turning four.

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Speaker 2: Libby bake's in a chocolate cake decorated with a blue

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Speaker 2: and gold Batman symbol. It looks professional Cindy would be proud.

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Speaker 2: In the video, Libby appears happy and carefree, a mom

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Speaker 2: trying to make her son's birthday special, but really she's

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Speaker 2: putting on a brave face. Just a few days earlier,

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Speaker 2: she and Devin broke up once again, and this time

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Speaker 2: when he left, he took the car she used to

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Speaker 2: get to work and drained their joint bank account, leaving

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Speaker 2: her stranded and broke right before reent was due. Libby

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Speaker 2: was sad and understandably furious, but stealing with something Devin

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Speaker 2: was known to do when he was using he stole

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Speaker 2: from strangers, friends, and now the woman he claimed to love.

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Speaker 2: A few weeks later, Devin's reckless behavior caught up to him.

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Speaker 2: He was arrested and charged with burglarizing someone's apartment. He

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Speaker 2: ended up spending most of the summer behind bars. It

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Speaker 2: was a long time to be away from Libby. By

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Speaker 2: my estimate, this was the longest separation that had in years,

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Speaker 2: and for Libby this was a complicated period. She was

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Speaker 2: grieving the law loss of the life. She was trying

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Speaker 2: to build a family with Devon and Zave, but Devn's

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Speaker 2: incarceration allowed her enough space, both mental and physical, to

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Speaker 2: start reimagining her future.

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Speaker 16: She was always out going, you know, and happy that

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Speaker 16: she also was a little stressed because she was trying

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Speaker 16: to do everything on her own.

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Speaker 2: With Devon out of the picture, Libby began to re

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Speaker 2: establish relationships with people should cut off, especially her mom Cindy.

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Speaker 16: We would make dinners and we had one of those

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Speaker 16: speakers that hipped up to the bluetooth and we'd take

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Speaker 16: her and spicking out songs.

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Speaker 2: You know, and playing music. That summer, Libby kept herself

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Speaker 2: busy between visits with family, looking after Zaev, and a

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Speaker 2: new job at the mall food court, where she got

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Speaker 2: to work beside her friend Mariah.

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Speaker 7: Oh was there recording yep.

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Speaker 2: This is a clip of them walking from the park

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Speaker 2: working a lot to the mall entrance, already dressed in

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Speaker 2: their uniforms for the day. The person making that whoo

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Speaker 2: sound that's Libby in this video. She's laughing, mugging for

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Speaker 2: the camera, a pretty normal twenty one year old on

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Speaker 2: her way to a summer job. She worked right next

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Speaker 2: door to me.

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Speaker 17: We would take our breaks in the hallway together.

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Speaker 2: We would talk all day during work.

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Speaker 17: I mean, our managers hated that we worked right next

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Speaker 17: to each other. We were constantly talking, constantly causing chaos together.

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Speaker 17: We would hang out outside of work almost every day,

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Speaker 17: if not every weekend.

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Speaker 2: Mariah's strongest memory of Libby this summer. The last summer

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Speaker 2: of Libby's life, was the day she showed up at

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Speaker 2: the mall to return the engagement ring Devin had given

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Speaker 2: her that past Christmas.

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Speaker 17: I'll never forget. She called me in a super good mood,

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Speaker 17: saying that she's on the way up to the mall,

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Speaker 17: but it was her day off and she wanted me

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Speaker 17: to come out and walk inside with her. She was

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Speaker 17: just being She came up to the mall to a

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Speaker 17: exchange and get her money back for the ring that

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Speaker 17: Devin had bought her, and she said she.

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Speaker 2: Was going to be moving on. She told me like

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Speaker 2: she was done, done going back and forth.

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Speaker 17: She's finally going to do what she needed to do

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Speaker 17: for her and she was finally turning a page.

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Speaker 2: Many people do successfully get out of abusive relationships. I've

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Speaker 2: met a lot of them, heard their stories. Rarely does

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Speaker 2: it happen on the first try, or even the second

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Speaker 2: or the third. In my opinion, the cycle that Libby

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Speaker 2: went through clean and single, using and back with Devon,

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Speaker 2: that was her process of trying to leave. Because leaving

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Speaker 2: is a process. It takes time and resources and support

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Speaker 2: and a hell of a lot of courage. And that

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Speaker 2: summer of twenty seventeen seemed like a turning point for Libby.

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Speaker 2: She was building a new foundation for her life. But

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't it turned out be enough.

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Speaker 17: As soon as Devin came back into the picture. She

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Speaker 17: lost her car, her apartment, her job, everything, you know.

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Speaker 17: The only thing she was still hanging on to was

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Speaker 17: her sobriety.

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Speaker 2: Devin is released from jail in mid July. Almost immediately,

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Speaker 2: he tries to get back into Libby's life, calling and

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Speaker 2: coming by her apartment. Libby resists, stays vigilant. She never

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Speaker 2: knew when Devin was watching.

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Speaker 17: I can't tell you a single time at night that

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Speaker 17: she'd ever have her blinds up, and she always was

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Speaker 17: looking over her shoulder always.

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Speaker 2: When Devin fails to get Libby's attention, he posts on

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Speaker 2: Facebook about how she was stopping him from being the

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Speaker 2: good dad he yearned to be. Quote, Daddy has a

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Speaker 2: big boy and it's killing him not to be able

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Speaker 2: to see him. Libby, please just be grown about all this. Please,

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Speaker 2: It's not his fault that we can't seem to stay

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Speaker 2: in cahoots with one another. To all the mothers out there,

351
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Speaker 2: let your child be in the father's life. His next

352
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Speaker 2: post turns angry. I'm about to snap like a slim gem.

353
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Speaker 2: Can't believe the choices that she's making. WTF she won't

354
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Speaker 2: answer my calls. I don't know how Libby responded to

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Speaker 2: Devin's aggressive please, because she didn't share any of this

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Speaker 2: with her family. Here's Cindy.

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Speaker 16: She didn't tell me a lot of stuff because she

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Speaker 16: knew I would be mad if she was talking to

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Speaker 16: I think she was ashamed of it, you know, like

360
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Speaker 16: after everything he had done to her.

361
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Speaker 2: The close bonds that Cindy and Libby rebuilt that summer

362
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Speaker 2: disappears pretty quickly.

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Speaker 16: I started not being able to really talk to her,

364
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Speaker 16: Like I noticed less contact with me, only like about Xavier.

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Speaker 16: And when we had to have contact, I was calling

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Speaker 16: her and texting her where are you?

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Speaker 6: You know.

368
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Speaker 5: I need to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: Cindy had been here before. She knew what it meant

370
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Speaker 2: when Libby went silent. It meant Devon was back in

371
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Speaker 2: Libby's life, and probably meth was too. Cindy knew Libby

372
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: was back with Devon and using, and she felt powerless,

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Speaker 2: unable to help this situation. It might sound familiar if

374
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Speaker 2: you have a family member who struggles with substance abuse.

375
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Speaker 2: It can be impossible to know the right thing to do,

376
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Speaker 2: how to support your loved one without feeling like you're

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Speaker 2: enabling their drug use or punishing them when they're already

378
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: so low and practically there's very few options and not

379
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Speaker 2: a lot of resources for families going through this. Cindy's

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Speaker 2: overriding concern is her daughter's safety and the safety of

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Speaker 2: her grandson, Xavier. She's worried that he might be being

382
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 2: left unsupervised, and so she takes a quote tough love approach.

383
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: On September seventh, twenty seventeen, she calls Missouri's child welfare

384
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Speaker 2: hotline to report that she believes Xavier is living in

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Speaker 2: a home where drugs are being used.

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Speaker 5: I felt horrible at first.

387
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Speaker 16: I was just really down about that. But I was

388
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Speaker 16: also conflicted because I thought, this is exactly what needs

389
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 16: to happen. She needs to have this accountability and make

390
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 16: it serious, like you're gonna lose your child over this guy.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 2: The repercussions are swift and severe. Almost immediately, Xavier is

393
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: placed into temporary custody with Cindy. Libya is assigned a

394
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Speaker 2: case manager, and the state lays out of plan. If

395
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: she wants to regain custody of her son, she has

396
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Speaker 2: to prove she's a respectible mother, and a big part

397
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Speaker 2: of that is getting clean. She's required to do random

398
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Speaker 2: drug tests, to participate in meetings with a social worker,

399
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Speaker 2: and to go to court regularly. She has also allotted

400
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: a weekly visit with Zev overseen by Colleen Huff, a

401
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: state assigned parent Aid.

402
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 15: We work with at risk families whose children have been

403
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Speaker 15: removed and placed in alternative care. We're kind of the

404
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 15: eyes and the ears for the caseworkers because they never

405
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 15: see the children and their parents interact together.

406
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: Calling observed Libby as she interacted with Zev, usually at

407
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Speaker 2: Cindy's house.

408
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Speaker 10: She hated it.

409
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Speaker 16: At first, she hated Colleen. She's like, when I got

410
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 16: to meet that lady, she gets on my nerves. And

411
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Speaker 16: then she ended up loving calling yeah, because she you know,

412
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Speaker 16: you don't want to be made to do things that

413
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 16: you don't want to do, but she saw the good

414
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 16: in it.

415
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: Eventually, he took the state requirements seriously, abiding by the

416
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: many rules and random drug tests intended to keep her accountable,

417
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: and as far as both Cindy and Colleen saw, Libby

418
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: was committed to getting her son back as soon as

419
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: she could.

420
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 15: Libby loved her son. You could tell that by their interaction.

421
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 15: You know, just close connected, lots of hugs, kisses, and

422
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 15: you know, just to fun times, laughing and you know,

423
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 15: just doing whatever he wanted to do. So she was

424
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 15: super sweet and seemed vulnerable, you know, like she needed

425
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 15: strong support. She was just somebody that I really wanted

426
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Speaker 15: to help.

427
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: The truth is that Libby did need help. I want

428
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: to pause here for a second to consider the formidable

429
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: challenges that she was facing at this moment. Libby was

430
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 2: trying to quit methamphetamine, a drug that is notoriously difficult

431
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: to kick. She was navigating a long term abusive relationship that,

432
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: by her account, had grown more dangerous, and then she

433
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 2: lost custody of her son, the person who brought her

434
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: the most joy. This was undoubtedly a low point in

435
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 2: Libby's life. Even with help, she would have had a

436
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: long road ahead of her.

437
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 6: So she talked about telling herself to day, Yes, sir.

438
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: Is it possible that Libby was suicidal, as Devin claimed

439
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: the night her body was found?

440
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 15: Why just because of our situations with real boss, cousin

441
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 15: and our friend.

442
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: There are a number of factors in Libby's life that

443
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: studies have linked with increased suicidal behavior, like drug abuse,

444
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: which impacts brain chemistry and can result in the loss

445
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: of self control, and experiencing domestic violence, which can be traumatic.

446
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: One report by the CDC found that in twenty five

447
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: percent of female suicides, intimate partner problems are a contributing factor.

448
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: And that rate is even higher among teens. Libby's young

449
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: age might also qualify as a risk factor, says Elizabeth McCulloch,

450
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: a youth mental health expert and suicide prevention advocate in Missouri.

451
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 5: One of the things that we see frequently in young people,

452
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 5: whether we're talking about trauma or substance misuse or behavior disorders,

453
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 5: is they only know what they know today. They don't

454
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 5: have the ability to do a lot of forward thinking.

455
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 4: They also have not had the opportunities to experience a

456
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 4: positive failure or so learning from their mistakes or learning

457
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 4: from their failures, or having a better understanding that things

458
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 4: can improve, things are going to get better.

459
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: This is just a moment. It's not the rest of

460
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: my life. McCulloch says, when it comes to suicideal factors,

461
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: it's never any one thing.

462
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 5: It's a layering on a loss of identity, a feeling

463
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 5: of disconnection, of feeling that you may be burdened on

464
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 5: other people, that your behaviors or your activities are pulling

465
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 5: other people down. You're responsible for that, losing a sense

466
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 5: of purpose in life. There's no purpose for me to

467
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 5: keep continuing forward. Things are never going to change. I'm stuck.

468
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: And then also that thought of is just hopeless.

469
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 5: It's hopeless, there's no hope. So that really critical lethal

470
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 5: intersection is between hopelessness, burdensomeness, and a sense of having

471
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 5: no purpose.

472
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: When I described all that Livy was facing at this

473
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: point in her life, McCulloch recognized another risk factor.

474
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 5: Anytime there's a loss, and what you just described were

475
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 5: multiple losses. Right she awes her child, she's feeling like

476
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 5: she's lost herself. She's not able to control her substance use,

477
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 5: so she gets lost in that loss is a common

478
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 5: thread that we see, whether it's perceived or real. When

479
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 5: you peel away the substance use, you peel away the

480
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 5: abusive relationship, and you've really got some raw emotions that

481
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 5: are sitting there that are difficult to explain and talk

482
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 5: through if you don't feel that you can trust the

483
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 5: people around you to talk about that.

484
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: We know that Libby tried to hide a lot of

485
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: things about her life that she was capable of putting

486
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: on a happy face.

487
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 5: On the outside. People could have seen her life and said,

488
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 5: she's maybe a little messed up, but she's got some

489
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 5: good things going on, and she's looking towards the future.

490
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 5: She's got some pleas and she's trying to pull it

491
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 5: together to get her son back without really recognizing the

492
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 5: energy and the distress that she's going through to try

493
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 5: to keep herself moving forward.

494
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: Of course, McCulloch never worked directly with Libby, and these

495
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: risk factors she's pointing out, they don't automatically mean Libby

496
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: with suicidal. They just mean she was at risk. And

497
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: the thing is, Libby did have experts in her life

498
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: around the time of her death, experts who were observing

499
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: her mental health and who didn't notice any overt signs

500
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: of suicidal behavior. One of them was her parent, aid Colleen,

501
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: do you believe that she was suicidal had she ever

502
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: made any suicide?

503
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 8: I just I.

504
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 15: Can't perceive her doing that, just because she loved her

505
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 15: son so much that I just don't believe she would

506
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 15: be capable of doing that knowing that she would never

507
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 15: get to see her son again and then her son

508
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 15: would grow up without a mom.

509
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: So I don't believe so. If anything, Colleen saw Libby's

510
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: fight to get her son back as a catalyst that

511
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: propelled her into action. Despite the challenges of state intervention,

512
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: Libby was eager to do everything she could to prove

513
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: herself a capable parent.

514
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 15: We had several I was working with her to get

515
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 15: these services set up for her son, also ged classes

516
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 15: and completion of those classes, and then we had started

517
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 15: applying for public housing.

518
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: Colin wasn't the only professional observing and monitoring Libby during

519
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: this time. I also talked to a social worker involved

520
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: in Libby's case who agreed to be interviewed anonymously. I

521
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: asked her directly if she saw any signs of suicidal

522
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: behavior in Libby. She said no. I've spent a lot

523
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: of time asking Libby's friends and family about how she

524
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: seemed in the few months before her death. And to

525
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: be very clear, there's no one way a person acts

526
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: when they're suicidal. They might make plans for the future,

527
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: or not appear in good spirits, or not confide in

528
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: others or not, And so I don't want to put

529
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: too much stock in these impressions. But by and large

530
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: they echoed the points made by Colleen, that Libby was

531
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: being challenged and pushed, but that she was embracing it,

532
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: determined to come out stronger with her son.

533
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: She started jumping through all the hoops. She was like,

534
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: I am I know what I need to do now,

535
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: you know.

536
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 5: She acts like she was just ready to move on.

537
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 13: Like the last messages that I have with her, that

538
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 13: she had sent me with her asking if she could

539
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 13: possibly come and move in with me and her come

540
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 13: work with me where I was working acause I was

541
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 13: making a lot of money.

542
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 7: All she wanted to do was clean up and get

543
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 7: away from him, stay clean, keep her rights with her son.

544
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 7: I watched her progress and try to get better there

545
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 7: at the end for really, and I thought she was

546
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 7: on a good road to it personally.

547
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: On the next episode of What Happened to Libby Caswell,

548
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: we zero in on the last week of Libby's life.

549
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: I was like, why don't you just come home? We

550
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: could tell him you're not here. She just kept saying, like, no,

551
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: I can't do that. You don't understand what would happen

552
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: if I stay here? He would know I'm here and

553
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: it's not safe for you, and it's not.

554
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 13: Safe for Zave.

555
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 6: Let me dem Nathan, I don't. I don't think I

556
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 6: feel safe with Devin anymore.

557
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: Like I don't, I don't know.

558
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: Some seamed off right now. What Happened To Libby Caswell

559
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: is written, reported, and hosted by me Melissa Jelson, with

560
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: writing and story editing by Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson.

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00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: Episodes are edited by Jeremy Thal and Carl Catle. Our

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00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: executive producer is Ryan Murdoch. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers

563
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: are Jason English and Katrina Norvell. Our supervising producer Carl Catele.

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00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: Fact checking by Maya Shukree. Archival material courtesy of KSHB

565
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: forty one News. Our theme song is written by Aaron

566
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Woolf. Original

567
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.

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00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: Our episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Catele. To

569
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: find out more about my investigation or to send a tip,

570
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: please email me at what Happened to libbyat gmail dot com.

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00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening