WEBVTT - Selects: What are think tanks all about? 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.800 Hey, everybody. Josh here and for this week's Select I've 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.400 chosen our episode on think tanks from September twenty eighteen. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.280 It's a common misconception that our elected officials in Washington 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.720 and the state capitals and everywhere else make the laws 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.360 and the policy that they introduce. In most cases, they 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.120 do not do that. That's up to special interest groups. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.560 And once upon a time, think tanks were one of 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.480 those groups. And even accounting for political bent, the policy 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.520 they suggested lawmakers was sound and unbiased. It was good stuff, 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.920 in other words. But that's not the case any longer. 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.320 As we learned in this episode, think tanks are open 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.040 for business and the US is far the worse off 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.560 for it. Hope you enjoy this episode. Hope it opens 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:43.040 your eyes. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:52.760 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.360 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, Charles 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.000 w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there actually sitting in today, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.880 and this is stuff you should know about think tanks, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.679 the thinking this kind of tanks. There are fish tanks. 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.039 They don't think at all, well, they barely think. They think. 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.520 This water feels a little warm for me, and then 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.679 they think what's water, what's being wet? And then that's 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:21.240 about it. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.520 And then they're like, how about some of those tasty flakes? 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.960 Yeah, give me some, and that's its. Think tanks. There's 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:29.559 a lot more thinking going on in these. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.280 Kind of tanks, more like stink tanks. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:37.280 It depends on your opinion, and that's everybody's opinion. So yes, 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.600 I guess they are more like stink tanks these days. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.240 This is one of those weird ones where I for 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:48.440 forty seven years, I've just sort of had this. I 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.600 never dug in on what a think tank was. I 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.120 hear it, and now I kind of assumed I knew 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:53.480 what it was. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.240 I was kind of right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:57.880 It's a good term for something. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:59.640 Yeah. I was like with this, is this like a 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.200 bunch of smart people sitting around thinking about smart stuff? 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.880 Exactly? That's kind of right, That's exactly what it is. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.200 It's ideally, it's like a place where people sit around 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:15.400 and think about things that eventually hopefully affects public policy 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.760 in a positive way, is what you're ultimately hoping for. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.000 Yeah, and by think we don't mean if you went 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.959 by a think tank, they would all just be sitting 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.000 around going hmmm. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:28.480 I think it depends on the day of the week 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:29.760 or if it's right after lunch. 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.480 Like, there's a ton of research and study. Oh, I 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:34.480 see it, stuff like that. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.040 They're not just pulling stuff out of thin air. 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:36.840 No. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.000 No, that's the point of think tanks is they are 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.720 groups of people, nonprofit organizations. In the US we should say. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:45.640 Yeah, which we'll get to the finer points of that. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.880 Who say, you know what, we see this problem in 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.880 America and or the world or wherever. Great Britain has 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.799 plenty of China has a bunch, and they say, how 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.800 can we solve this problem? Let's get too. We're going 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.640 to take this problem on and figure it out through 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:09.520 pragmatic science and evidence based research. We're going to come 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.560 up with a solution to this problem. And then the 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.680 next step is to get it out there to the public, 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.000 to policymakers, to get people talking about it. And then 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.440 once enough people talk about it and there's a public 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.800 debate over it, ideally, if it's a good idea, it 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.880 will be adopted as public policy and that problem will 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.600 be solved in a good way. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:36.360 Yeah, And that's the ideal function of an ideal think tank, 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.760 which is to say, it is nonpartisan, it is fact based, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:46.520 and it doesn't have an agenda necessarily. But things have 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.000 changed over the years, as we will see. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.400 Fairly recently, Chuck seems like. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:56.360 And think tanks can be very much slanted. But we'll 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:57.920 get into all that. That's just sort of a long 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:58.600 winded setup. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.720 Okay, that was a good man. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.200 Should we go back and check on our buddy Plato? 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:06.000 So great? 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:11.280 Yeah, so Plato his academy. The Academy was some people 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.480 say it was sort of the world's first think tank, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.040 which makes sense. Yeah. He would get dudes and they 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.680 would sit around in the garden and I would imagine 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:25.560 drink wine and talk smarts and philosophy and kind of 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.480 you know, like it was high minded stuff for the day, 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.320 to sit around and think about sort of what was 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.960 going on around them and how they could impact change. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.960 Yeah, or thinking about the nature of reality or existence. 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.880 They once decided that knowledge was uncertain and life is 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.360 essentially a craps game based on probability rather than absolute truth. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:51.960 If you step back and think about it, that is 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.120 the basis of quantum mechanics. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.640 Could you imagine if they had access to LSD back then. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.600 I know, I don't think it would have been too 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:02.440 terribly different. 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.560 Well, yeah, they were sort of traveling down that road anyway. 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.120 But that was I mean, that's pretty impressive some of 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.080 the stuff they came up with. This is again, you know, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.599 we did a skeptics episode, skepticism episode or no, I'm sorry, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.719 not skepticism, stoicism and remember this is oh yeah, this 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.960 is where this stuff was. All these different philosophies were 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.599 all like kind of grew from this academy. So yeah, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:26.760 you can make a pretty good case that it was 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.360 the world's first think tank. Yeah, it's a little it's 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.080 not the first modern think tank, but it qualifies in 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:33.919 a lot of ways. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.320 No, there was one. In eighteen thirty one in Great Britain, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.560 the Duke of Wellington established what was called the Royal 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.720 United Services Institution. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.520 Which studied like military science. 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.839 Yeah, and then here in the US in nineteen ten 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.400 the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.599 Which studied the results of military science. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:57.040 Right, and that's still around Carnegie, man, I mean, they 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.719 still have endowed many things. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.120 They're well in doubt, they are very well doubt. 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.320 And then of course the Brookings Institution which may be 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.760 the most famous modern American think tank to this day. 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.520 This is one you probably hear about the most. It 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:21.200 was founded by Robert Brookings in nineteen sixteen, and they 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:22.680 had a lot of I mean, they still have a 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:24.520 lot of influence, but they had a great deal of 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:29.080 influence kind of post depression with FDR's New Deal, helped 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.200 construct the New Deal, helped construct the Marshall Plan after 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:32.920 World War Two. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:34.560 That was huge. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.200 Yoh, very huge. So like both were for sure. 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.800 The New Deal definitely was. But the Marshall Plan is 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:42.720 there was a survey done of I think like four 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:48.920 hundred and fifty historians and the number one most important 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:53.279 thing that any government has done since World War Two, 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.640 between World War Two and the twenty first century was 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.520 the Marshall Plan. Like it not only like brought Europe 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.719 back from World War Two, it set Europe on a 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.920 path away from communism. Yeah, where if you're not into communism, 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.760 that was a great positive benefit, right Yeah. And the 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.760 way it did that was in two years, based on 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.320 this economic plan. In two years, it got Europe war 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.480 ravaged World War two ravaged Europe back to production levels 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.160 twenty five percent higher than the production levels it was 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.120 at before World War Two in two years, so it 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.440 just went back to normal plus twenty five percent better, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.640 and Europe said, I kind of like this capitalism thing, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:36.720 and Western Europe went that way. 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:42.160 I was kind of curious because Brookings, the Brookings Institution 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:47.000 gets a lot of like left leaning criticism today, so 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.560 I kind of wonder where that all came from. And 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.560 the article I read said that is a victory of 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:59.080 the conservative side to have Brookings labeled liberal just from 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.520 kind of pounding it the press, even though it's history 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.760 and its member board throughout the history has not been 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.720 liberal at all, and it has been filled from the 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.000 top down over the years with rank and file Republicans 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.600 and conservatives from like the Reagan era on through Bush 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:17.560 one and two. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.160 Oh okay, so they've gotten it across as liberal so 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.840 that liberals will swallow the stuff that Brookings is putting 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.160 out there. No, I know what they undermine their own 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:29.679 think tank. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.600 Well, I don't think it's not their own think tank. 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.160 It's not a conservative think tank. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.480 Well, it's centric. It's like almost right down the middle for. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.800 Me, right, But I think they want to advance their 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.360 own with their conservative thing tanks. They want to advance them, 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.280 so they label Brookings as super liberal. 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.960 I got you, So anything centrist is liberal. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:50.520 I think I got the way it's going down. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:51.280 That's what it is. 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:51.640 Yeah. 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.840 I can't remember who scored it, but somebody has a 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.640 liberal score between zero and one hundred for think tanks, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.160 and Brookings scored like a fifty three, right down the middle. Like, apparently, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.040 as far as think tanks go, it's about as centrist 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:07.240 as you possibly can get. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.239 Yeah, and they've been around for a long time. Yeah, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:11.520 makes a lot of sense. 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:16.000 Yep, So not just Brookings. Brookings is definitely one of 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.800 the most famous around the world and has done quite 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.760 a bit of stuff, but there's plenty of others. There's 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.360 the Rand Corporation is a very famous think tank, which 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.600 did you know. Rand is actually a I don't know 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.480 what you'd call it, but it's supposed to. It started 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.199 out as R and D Research and Development RAND Corporation, 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.040 and from what I understand, they've come up with the 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:43.640 ideas for computers, the Internet, spy satellites, the Space program, 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:48.760 all that stuff that America did in the mid twentieth century. Technologically, yes, yeah, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.880 the RAND Corporation, like thinkers, were the ones who came 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:52.760 up with this stuff. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:54.760 Yeah, I think I knew some of that, and I 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.440 don't think it fully hit home that they were a 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.679 think tank. Yeah, with the name like the Rancore Right 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.720 sounds like just a corporation. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.520 But they're they're like a think tank that's really specifically 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:13.600 or was specifically zoned into America's technology progression. I guess. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.880 Yeah. I mean a lot of think tanks can be 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.680 specialized like that, Like some are very very much just 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:23.800 concentrate on economics, some concentrate on social issues in that 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.240 case technology, and then I think some like Brookings are 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.600 sort of a little more broad. Yeah, they'll they'll take. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.520 Any case, right, they'll take all comer. 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:34.480 Yeah. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.680 So after World War Two, like there were think tanks before, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:42.600 like you said, Brookings, Carnegie, the Royal United Services Institute 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.200 in the UK, there were, like there were think tanks 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.400 prior to World War Two, but after World War Two 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.120 they really proliferated. And the reason they started was government 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.640 was just kind of government it was in the in 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.560 the early twentieth century. It was just just this. It 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.120 was It wasn't anything like you see it now. It 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:05.400 wasn't this monolithic behemoth that has its tendrils in every 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.160 aspect of people's lives or anything. It was a little 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.240 too far the other way where it didn't quite know 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.960 what it was doing. So some of those early philanthropists 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:19.960 like Carnegie and Brookings, they endowed these think tanks to 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.120 kind of help government out, to basically be like the 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.760 research arm for government to help direct the best way 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.000 for America to go. And that's how it started out. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.600 And then after World War Two, when America had like 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.040 all this cash and all this forward momentum, think tanks 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.720 really popped up and there were all these kind of 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:46.080 competing and then sometimes harmonious voices from these think tanks 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.120 to say go this way, go this way, let's go 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.280 this way. But they all had something in common, and 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.400 that was that they were staffed by very smart people 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:59.720 who did very deliberate, very good research, who produced policy 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:05.040 pusicians that lawmakers could then take themselves and go out 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.000 to the people and say, see, this is what I'm 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.760 talking about, here's the data, here's a SoundBite for you 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.560 to make you all understand it. That's what things tanks did, 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.120 and in a way they very much were along the 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.000 same track as lobby lobbyists which we did an episode 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.720 on that that was pretty good too. But think tanks 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.440 stopped short of lobbying allegedly. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.959 Yeah, because they kind of had to. Starting in nineteen thirteen, 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.480 they were granted tax exempt status, which is a very 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.040 big deal because there's a lot of money involved in 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:36.040 many of these. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.760 I've been trying to get that for myself for years, Sax, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.800 and you're right, it is a very big deal. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.360 The Church of Josh just get it going. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.240 That's so I'm wearing this robe right now. 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.120 In the nineteen fifties, though, is when Congress really kind 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.480 of because they were tax exempt, had to get involved 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.280 and say, hey, listen, you got to walk a line here. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.360 You politically, you can't if you want to keep this 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.880 tax exemption. Now, yeah, we for sure do. They said, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.960 you can't be partisan, it's got to be good information. 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.000 You can't slant things a certain way or support officially 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.960 support or endorsed candidates. You are here to educate with 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.640 your objective work. And that went along for a while, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.040 and then we started getting think tanks that set out 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:28.079 to do just that, which they are called advocacy think 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.360 tanks now, which I'm not sure how they managed to 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.040 skirt unless they change the rules, skirt those rules and 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.440 say hey, we're going to be a conservative think tank 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.800 or liberal think tank and still be tax exempt. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.880 The do you know, The only thing that I can 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:50.280 tell is that they're still technically producing a public good, 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.920 or if they believe that they're producing a public good, 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.600 even if they have conservative alignment or a liberal alignment. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.760 They're trying to move society along in a way that 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.040 they think is good or for the betterment of society. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.480 That's what stuff you should know is, dude, That's what 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.600 I've been telling I mean, could we be a think tank? 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:08.160 No? 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:14.120 Absolutely not. I mean think about it, like I mean, 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.040 I guess we could. I think that there's a I don't. Okay, 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.600 let me take that back. No, we absolutely couldn't because we. 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.760 Can't be brought to you by. 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.000 We don't have we don't have time. I don't know, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.400 that's a good question, but we don't have. Yeah, you 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.960 couldn't advertise and have like you couldn't get advertiser money 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.280 and be tax exempt. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.000 That's just yeah. Like I doubt if the Brookings institutions 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.520 papers have like Burger King coupons on them. 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.560 You never know they should So we'll get to why 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.360 we can't be later on. Okay, But one of the 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:48.200 things about about think tanks is they're they're the reason 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.480 they have a tax exempt status is what they're doing 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.160 is producing work that furthers the public good. Yeah, that's 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.800 why they're supposed to have tax exempt status. What you're 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.840 pointing out is a really good thing to point out. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.760 Wait a minute, there's a lot of stuff here that 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.360 they could lose their tax exempt status for. And if 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.400 we fast forward to three or five years from now, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.360 I think we're going to start seeing them lose tax 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.240 exempt status. They just haven't yet, I think, is what 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:14.600 it is. 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.400 Yeah, because some of them flat out like it's so 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.360 obvious when they come around, Like when the Democrats were 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.000 beaten in two thousand, they got together and they started 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.400 left leaning thinkers got together and started the Center for 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:34.520 American Progress, which is an economic organization. It says this nonpartisan, 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.600 but it literally says as a quote, their goal is 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.800 to develop new policy ideas, critique the policy that stems 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.560 from conservative values, challenges the media to cover the issues 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.040 that truly matter and shape the national debate. So it's 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.640 they're kind of flat out saying like we're out to 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.640 prove not just have an opinion about maybe that's a distinction, 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.920 out to prove that conservative economic values are bad for 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.240 the country. Basically, Yeah, is that the difference. Maybe here's 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:09.880 our data. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:11.160 I honestly don't know, dude. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.040 It's not a bunch of op eds thrown together. 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.520 It's so No, it's not supposed to just be op eds. 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.920 It's supposed to be backed by data. Yeah, but I 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.040 mean like Center for American Progress or like the Heritage Foundation, 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:29.280 or like ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, like these 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.800 are like and we're going to do a whole episode 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.080 just on ALEC one day. Okay, seriously, Yeah, but they're 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.920 like little They're like Kareem abdul Jabbar, like karate training 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:45.920 islands for liberals or for conservatives or for rich billionaire followers, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.840 like it doesn't matter, Like that's what they are. They 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.880 come up with new ideas to push their agenda, and 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.560 then they train activists to go out and get that 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.240 message out, to change people's minds, to get themselves on 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.600 CNN or Fox News or whatever, right, and to shape 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.320 the public discussion on something. It has a lot of 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.600 the contours of what think tanks used to have. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.119 Yeah, but there's this whole. 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.240 Other layer of like like seeing you and gristle there 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.680 that think tanks aren't supposed to have. 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.760 Should we take a break? Sure, all right, we'll take 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.640 a break and we'll talk a little bit more about 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:46.359 the Heritage Foundation right after this. All right, nineteen eighties, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.560 the Heritage Foundation, which you briefly mentored, mentored. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.640 Sure, that's the new mentioned before. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.320 Before we broke. They came about and we broke a 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.040 long time ago. They said, all right, teen eighties, we 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:05.240 got Ronald Reagan in there. He is watching movies or 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.000 asleep most of the time, so we have a good opportunity. 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.080 That's how they want you to think he has a 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.359 good Did you see the numbers about his movie watching? 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:14.920 No? 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.359 Oh man, it's great. What like a movie fan? It's great? 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:19.960 How many movies did he watch? Your day? 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:21.760 He watched a lot of movies. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.320 And this is like back when they just had like reels, right, films, trips. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.760 I guess they probably just you know, cued the projector 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.440 when he and Nancy wanted to watch a good old 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.879 fashioned western. Oh that was a good starring me. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.200 Can you do the rest of the episode as. 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.760 No, So they came along and they said, all right, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:44.080 Reagan's in office, here are our recommendations. What UPI would 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.520 call a blueprint for grabbing the government by its frayed 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.119 New Deal lapels and shaking out forty eight years of 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.800 liberal policy. And it came by way of two thousand, 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.440 more than two thousand recommendations. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.600 Yeah, and they tried to institute about two thirds of them. 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:04.400 Yeah, was like, great, here's my thanks for the outline 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:05.800 for what I should do. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:07.560 Right my plans. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.480 Yeah, so two thirds, like he said during his two terms, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.760 is what he tried to implement. And then, of course 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.720 when Bill Clinton gets in there, the Progressive Policy Institute, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.840 I don't know if it was two thousand plus, but 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.800 they offered similar recommendations. And that's how it goes with 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:24.200 think tanks right now. 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.800 Yeah, because if you're a lawmaker, and again we said 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.000 this in the Lobbying episode two, you're not necessarily like 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.920 some smart whip crack sharp person. 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:36.760 No, I think we've seen that played out. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.439 You can just like get people to vote for you, Yeah, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.880 on both sides of the aisle. Just a crack at 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.080 like you know Trump or anything. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.199 Oh no, no, no, I mean all up and down the 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:48.080 House and Senate. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:48.280 Right. 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.560 You don't like to think they're all geniuses, but they're not. 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.879 They're not. No, And you don't have to be smart 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.280 to hold office. You just have to get people to 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.480 vote for you. Again, which is why think tanks have 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.760 flourished for so long while lobbyists have flourished for so long, 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.080 because they're the ones who do the research and write 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.640 the policy and say, yeah, here you go, you want 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.280 to go look smart, here you go, buddy. We even 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.560 like highlighted some sound bites for you to go say 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:15.719 to people and get the get into the twenty four 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:16.560 hour news cycle. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:17.000 Yeah. 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.200 And that's one of the big roles that think tanks 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.520 play today is by and have you know, especially since 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.119 World War Two, is by going to policymakers and being like, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.080 here's your agenda, take your leave as much as you want. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.800 But all of this is back by data, like it 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.360 dovetails with what you want to do with the country, 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:38.000 and it is just gangbusters stuff. Yeah, high quality, well 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:38.879 researched stuff. 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.440 Yeah. It's really interesting because I think there are still 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:48.479 think tanks that only craft, only do research and present 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.800 it and say do what you will with it, but 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.960 those seem to be more and more gone by the wayside. 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.040 Yeah, twenty ten was a real watershed year. It feels 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:58.320 like for think tanks. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.600 Yeah, like you mentioned ALEX, which are going to cover 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:06.439 in full, but I mean they are a bill writing organization. 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.880 They call them model bills. But I mean when when 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:11.879 you hear a senator or something said, you know, we 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.840 crafted this legislation, well, that probably means is an organization 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:20.439 like ALEC handed them the legislation and said here, you know, 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.400 here it is if you want to use it, right, 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:24.400