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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether at the grocery store or

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Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg PI L Podcast on iTunes,

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Speaker 1: SoundCloud and at Bloomberg dot com. Perhaps there's a newsletter

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Speaker 1: going out into the halls of Monte di Paski, the

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Speaker 1: oldest bank in the world, at least on record from Sienna,

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Speaker 1: and the European Central Bank has denied Monte di pasks

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Speaker 1: bid for more time in order to raise capital. Well,

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Speaker 1: what happens next and what does this mean? Well, it

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Speaker 1: means we turned to Yamen owner On. Yealman is our

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Speaker 1: senior writer for Banking and Finance, and he is also

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Speaker 1: the author of a wonderful book entitled Zombie Banks. Yeaman,

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Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to have you. Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: You uh, you seem to coin the term zombie banks,

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Speaker 1: or at least you've made it a little bit more

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Speaker 1: high profile. Shall we say? It is Monte di Paski,

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Speaker 1: the Mountain of piety zombie bank. It definitely is it's

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Speaker 1: the oldest bank and it's also a zombie, so maybe

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Speaker 1: it was due to die a long time ago and didn't.

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Speaker 1: But Italy has has um the worst of zombie banks

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Speaker 1: right now because um it, It's economy has been stuck

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Speaker 1: in recessions and slow growth for decades. That means bad

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Speaker 1: loans have piled up and up and up, and they

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Speaker 1: haven't and and some banks are just never They're losing

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Speaker 1: money constantly, not making money. Their balance sheets are in

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Speaker 1: horrible shape, and and they should die and and and

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Speaker 1: also another big problem is that they're over bank I

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Speaker 1: mean they have there are too many bank branches in

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Speaker 1: every street of Sienna or in every street of major

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Speaker 1: Italian city, and thus they can't they're has over competition.

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Speaker 1: They cannot make money. So so there are too many

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Speaker 1: dead banks, which also hurts the good banks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: some of Italy's top banks are actually in great shape,

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Speaker 1: but they get hurt by the same zombie banks surrounding

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Speaker 1: them because the message cannot tell which is a zombie

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Speaker 1: which is not. So this is a major zombie bank

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Speaker 1: problem issue and things are really coming to head. So

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Speaker 1: let's see if they actually fix it. Although I you know,

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Speaker 1: I I worry about stop gag solutions that that constantly

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Speaker 1: are done around the world. Um. Well, hold on, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Monte de Paski. The fact that the ECB

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Speaker 1: rejected their request for more time to prepare a five

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Speaker 1: billion euro capital increase. This is this is an odd

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Speaker 1: move to me. Why wouldn't the ECP give it to

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Speaker 1: them and then allow them to avoid uh an Italian

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Speaker 1: government bailout, which seems to be a problematic approach from

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Speaker 1: from a legal perspective given the current guidelines. Um, you

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Speaker 1: know the we we have a little bit reporting from

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Speaker 1: Italy on on why the e CP rejected it, which

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Speaker 1: is basically they weren't sure if the market conditions would improve.

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Speaker 1: If they're giving more time, what if it actually got worse. Um.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the e c

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Speaker 1: B has given them and the and the regulators have

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Speaker 1: given them so much time. It's I mean, Monty Paskey,

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Speaker 1: problems have been going on for years. It's not last

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Speaker 1: weekend's problem, it's not last month's problem. Um. So they've

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Speaker 1: had so much time to fix this, and and they've

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Speaker 1: constantly put off the solutions. And not only that, every

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Speaker 1: time they raised these capital I mean, they've had three

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Speaker 1: or three capital or two or three capital increases and

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Speaker 1: they just burned through them because they're losing money constantly.

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Speaker 1: So let's say the e CP is trying to push

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Speaker 1: them to the edge, push them to a more concrete solution.

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Speaker 1: What is the path forward at this point? Um, I

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Speaker 1: mean there are multiple options, but you know, basically what

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Speaker 1: they've been trying to avoid with the government of matter Ramsey,

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Speaker 1: which is on its way out because he resigned a

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Speaker 1: few days ago. Um, what there he's been trying to

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Speaker 1: avoid is is UM burning junior um bondholders UM, almost

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Speaker 1: half of which are are depositors in the bank. So

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Speaker 1: little guys, small business owners, regular depositors u uhh, who

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Speaker 1: had junior debt in the bank and and they would

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Speaker 1: be wiped out because the European rules require some sort

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Speaker 1: of a bail in of junior creditors before the government

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Speaker 1: can also help bail out. So before a bailout happens,

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Speaker 1: that bailon had to happen. So he was trying to

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Speaker 1: avoid that. But now that that government is on its

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Speaker 1: way out, UM, probably there will be a caretaker government

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Speaker 1: which might not worry as much about these things. That

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Speaker 1: so so I think that that's what might happen. There

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Speaker 1: might be bail in and bail out at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Junior creditors become shareholders, or they lose some of their

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Speaker 1: bond face value at completely UM and there's some kind

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Speaker 1: of recapitalization that the government also takes part in contributes

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Speaker 1: UM and that will save the day for now. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how how long it's gonna last, because you know,

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Speaker 1: one of their biggest plans is to sell some of

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Speaker 1: the bad debt, but it's still some. They still have

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Speaker 1: so much bad debt, and they're not going to be

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Speaker 1: good look going forward either. Wasn't there a plan put forth,

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Speaker 1: I believe, for JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs to come

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Speaker 1: in and in some way ring fence a lot of

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Speaker 1: the bad loans and put them into a separate entity.

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Speaker 1: Right they were they were trying to sell off the

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Speaker 1: worst of the bad loans, the so frenzy, as they

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Speaker 1: call it, an Italian um and and um we're using

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Speaker 1: some private share you know, credit and government guarantees, etcetera. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I did a study a couple of months ago

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Speaker 1: on that even when they do that, it's about half

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Speaker 1: of the bad debt. But there's still so much bad

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Speaker 1: that and and and with those ratios, they'd be still

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Speaker 1: triple the levels of bad that in in the European Union,

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Speaker 1: and double the bad that rates in then Italy, which

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Speaker 1: has a bad that ratio problem. So three d and

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Speaker 1: sixty billion euros of bad loans on the Italian banks,

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Speaker 1: that is a lot of money. Let's turn our attention

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Speaker 1: now to gaming and our nation's capital. Here to tell

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Speaker 1: us more, Jim Muran. He is the chairman and the

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Speaker 1: chief executive of MGM Resorts International. Jim ur and thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for being with us. Well, thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me. All Right, so you're opening a one

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Speaker 1: point four billion dollar property. It's the MGM National Harbor

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Speaker 1: Casino and Resort. It's just outside our nation's capital. And

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Speaker 1: you said that this is property. It has a gambling

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Speaker 1: floor bigger than the White House, and it has an

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Speaker 1: art collection that includes a welded collage by Bob Dylan,

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Speaker 1: the recipient of the Nobel Prize for Literature. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about this project, and uh, and what makes it so different? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's been a journey of four years. It's uh perfectly

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Speaker 1: located on the banks of the Potoma eight mile from

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Speaker 1: the capitol. Uh, reviewing as I sit here the Washington

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Speaker 1: Monument as you speak, and right across Old Town on

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Speaker 1: over the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. Free airport service this area

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Speaker 1: as you know. So we have a tremendous international interests

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Speaker 1: of tourists to come to the Washington, DC and Metro

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Speaker 1: Atlantic area. We've built something here that I believe it's

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Speaker 1: truly unique, the first integrated resort in a large metropolitan

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Speaker 1: market in the United States. And yes, we have a

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Speaker 1: stunning art collection. Uh. We spent millions of dollars on

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Speaker 1: bringing some of the world's greatest artists and local artists

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Speaker 1: together as well as internationally acclaimed chef such as jos

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Speaker 1: Andreas and Market sam Ustin and the Potago Brothers, and

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of entertainment. Next week we have Boys

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Speaker 1: the Men, and then Lionel Richie and Bruno Mars Share

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Speaker 1: and Earthlin and Fire and Duran Durant and uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like relentless amount of a listeners. Um, we really

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Speaker 1: wanted to wow the market, and early indicators are that

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Speaker 1: we have. Jim, how important is it to MGM to

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Speaker 1: diversify away from Las Vegas and Macau. I mean just

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Speaker 1: today we saw, you know, rumors that Macau was going

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Speaker 1: to limit a t M withdrawals from mainland China, which

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Speaker 1: sent shares of gaming companies, including MGMs down. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: since rebounded. Is as sort of the rumor was confirmed

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Speaker 1: as being somewhat less important. But but how important is

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Speaker 1: it to DIVERSEFY away from Macau? Well, the vertifications always

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Speaker 1: always a positive if you go into markets that are

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Speaker 1: large where your market share can grow and be defended,

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Speaker 1: and you see a future. Um, and so we we don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't like diversification for divertification's sake. There there there's

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Speaker 1: gaming in fully different states in the United States. We're

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Speaker 1: in very few of them. Um. We only want to

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Speaker 1: be in markets where we believe our non gaming, our

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Speaker 1: entertainment UH DNA can bereing UH bring an incremental competitive advantage.

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Speaker 1: So if you look at our portfolio, yes, we dominate

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. We have the market there with properties

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Speaker 1: like Bellagio and MGM, vandel A Bay and Aria, but

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Speaker 1: we also have the most profitable luxury resort on adult coasts.

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Speaker 1: But Revige the most profitable casino in Detroit, the most

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Speaker 1: profitable casino in Atlantic City for data and now here

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Speaker 1: in our nation's capital. This is a going to be

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Speaker 1: very successful resourts. The idea you can integrate these resorts together,

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Speaker 1: create synergy amongst them, you'll be able to diversify your

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Speaker 1: cash flows, grow your business. And that's why I was

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Speaker 1: so excited about this one. This one is uh. I

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, by the way, if it just

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Speaker 1: didn't work out, my wife would be mad at me.

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Speaker 1: She's from Maryland, and uh, she said, leave it on

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Speaker 1: the field. Jim and I think we have here. What

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Speaker 1: if you could just give us a little perspective on

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Speaker 1: the gaming industry, because I know that you joined the

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Speaker 1: company I think it was. You've seen it through tough times, restructuring,

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Speaker 1: a reorganization of financing in order to keep the business afloat.

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Speaker 1: Then you had the whole issue with the Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: City Center of property with Dubai World. Tell us the

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Speaker 1: state of the gaming industry and what's working and what's

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Speaker 1: not working. So yes, I've been around a while because

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Speaker 1: I've been there since then, and I've covered this industry

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Speaker 1: since nineteen before when I was on Law Street. So

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Speaker 1: I could say there's been a tremendous change. This was

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Speaker 1: a very property centric, developer centric industry in the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, it was fairly fragmented. UM you had very

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Speaker 1: uneven levels of operation and quality of resorts, and then

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Speaker 1: we went through a corportization of the gaming industry. A

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Speaker 1: lot of M and A activity occurred in the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, early part of two thousands, and then you

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Speaker 1: had the recession, which punished UM the economy in the

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Speaker 1: US and particularly damaged Las Vegas. And post that period

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Speaker 1: we've seen a remarkable recovery and entire sector, but also

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Speaker 1: a very very big change in public perception and gaming.

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Speaker 1: It's it's now at all time high in terms of

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Speaker 1: the perception. Folks either enjoy themselves or have no issue

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Speaker 1: with others to do so. It's more in stream. There

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Speaker 1: are two million American jobs in this industry. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: the industry's self is growing, but not everyone is doing

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Speaker 1: equally well. And I think when you consider this industry

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Speaker 1: like any other, quality counts. And that's why you've seen

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Speaker 1: bankruptcies of properties in Atlantic City and other properties in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the country that have not done as

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Speaker 1: well because there was under investment early on, under investment

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Speaker 1: an ongoing basis, and the consumers are becoming increasingly uh,

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Speaker 1: discerning and demanding. Um So, the industry today is doing well.

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Speaker 1: We benefit from a growing economy. MGM is doing quite

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Speaker 1: a bit better than the industry at large, but we're

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Speaker 1: all doing better. I want to learn more about President

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Speaker 1: elect Donald Trump's plan for energy, specifically with respect to

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Speaker 1: environmentally conscious energy sources. I want to bring Katherine trey Wick,

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Speaker 1: energy policy reporter for Bloomberg News, who's coming to us

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Speaker 1: from Washington. Katherine, you co authored a story that is

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Speaker 1: tremendously interesting today. Trump team's memo hints at broad shacope

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Speaker 1: of US energy policy. UM, I'm trying to sort of

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Speaker 1: square this article, which talks about how the president elect

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Speaker 1: is trying to sort of maintain some of uh President

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Speaker 1: Barack Obama's climate a gender or at least the nuclear

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Speaker 1: power plants, while also including some people who have been

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Speaker 1: known to be climate change deniers in his cabinet. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the story? Sure? So,

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Speaker 1: we obtained a document from sources at the Energy Department

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Speaker 1: which lists sixty five questions of the transition team gave

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Speaker 1: to Energy Department staff off basically just trying to UM

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Speaker 1: get a sense of what they needed to know to

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Speaker 1: make the transition go smoothly. But they were also a

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Speaker 1: lot of very specific questions about, as you mentioned, nuclear plants,

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Speaker 1: what can be done to UM save at risk plants

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Speaker 1: that aren't competitive amid low gas prices UM, as well

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Speaker 1: as asking for lists of every staff member and contractor

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Speaker 1: who participated in UN climate talks, who worked on crafting

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Speaker 1: climate policy for Barack Obama's administration UM, and also which

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Speaker 1: energy department departments were most essential to meeting Barack Obama's

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Speaker 1: climate agenda. Well, so, Catherine, one thing that UM sort

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Speaker 1: of still get stuck out to me. So nuclear power

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Speaker 1: plants are known to be a particularly waste free type

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Speaker 1: of energy, a particularly UM considered to be more environmentally friendly. Correct, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they are a zero carbon emission source. So the idea

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Speaker 1: that President elect Trump's team is asking specific questions about

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Speaker 1: how to keep some of these plants running would suggest

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Speaker 1: that they are looking at more environmentally conscious, conscious sources

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Speaker 1: of energy now, I think. So it is a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a departure from the Obama administration in that

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Speaker 1: the Clean Power Plan, which was his landmark climate regulation, UH,

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Speaker 1: didn't really do anything for nuclear plants and didn't adequately

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Speaker 1: value the carbon free contributions of nuclear plants. So I

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Speaker 1: think that it's fair to say that folks on the

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Speaker 1: Trump team view helping nuclear as a departure from past policy.

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Speaker 1: Even though helping nuclear isn't it does contribute to our

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Speaker 1: goals of reducing our carbon footprint. Catherine, you you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that as part of the President alex transition team requests,

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Speaker 1: they wanted to know the names of employees of the

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Speaker 1: Department of Energy who attended various United Nations climate meetings. Correct?

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Speaker 1: Is that normal operating procedure to ask for specific names

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Speaker 1: of people? And are these people civil servants? In other words,

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Speaker 1: they are career employees, they are UM their career employees

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Speaker 1: as well as contractors. The bulk of Department of Energy

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Speaker 1: staff are made up of contractors. Um it is it

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Speaker 1: is definitely normal to ask such questions just to make

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Speaker 1: sure that transition moves smoothly. But I will say that

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Speaker 1: sources within the Energy Department that we spoke to were

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Speaker 1: alarmed by these requests and that there was a fear

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Speaker 1: that um maybe they would be targeted UM for their

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Speaker 1: role in helping to craft climate policy. It's worth mentioning

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Speaker 1: that someone close to the Trump transition team told us

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Speaker 1: that those fears were unfounded, that this was more of

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Speaker 1: an issue of transparency and an effort to let Republican

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Speaker 1: lawmakers who have been asking for this information for years,

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Speaker 1: um finally get the information that they've been looking for. Wait. So,

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Speaker 1: in other words, Republican lawmakers have been asking for the

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Speaker 1: specific people on this team, the names of them, and

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Speaker 1: they haven't been delivered until now. They've been asking, yes,

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Speaker 1: for more transparency around who crafted these policies, the meetings,

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Speaker 1: who was involved, That's that sort of thing. I cannot

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Speaker 1: say that, um, there has there has been a specific

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Speaker 1: request for the names of all staff and contractors who

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Speaker 1: ever attended any of these meetings, that specific part It

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Speaker 1: could be near campup, Pops. I was just looking at

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Speaker 1: Delta shares that are up almost fifty percent since June

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Speaker 1: and the United h Airlines United Continental up more than

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Speaker 1: eighty percent. Yeah, that would have been the trade, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: it by the end of June, and then you'd be

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Speaker 1: happy Today, Well, we're going to find out if our

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Speaker 1: our next guest bought until in June four. Frank Holme

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Speaker 1: CEO and chief investment officer at US Global Investors um Frank,

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Speaker 1: you have an e t F US Global Jets e

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Speaker 1: t F, which is the only dedicated airline industry related

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Speaker 1: to E t F on the market. So do you

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Speaker 1: think that this rally is just getting started or do

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Speaker 1: you think that we're kind of going to hit a

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Speaker 1: plateau here? Well, I think it's got tremendous opportunity for website.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think back at that period of time,

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Speaker 1: I was on this radio show and we talked about it.

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Speaker 1: So those people who are listening, uh and bought into

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Speaker 1: that was so cheap. And when I try to explain

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Speaker 1: to people back then, is that you could buy American

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Speaker 1: airlines at five times earnings with a return on investor capital.

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Speaker 1: And and I think that over time was taken place

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Speaker 1: with Warren Buffett is that return to investor capital is

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Speaker 1: the most important factor for picking stocks. And he didn't

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Speaker 1: trust the leadership that they would destroy that capital. That's

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Speaker 1: happened before. That's totally different now. And another important factor

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Speaker 1: for stock screens was called shareholder yield, and that is

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Speaker 1: dividends paid stock buy backs and reducing debt. If you

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Speaker 1: looked at the out industries in the SMP five, that industry,

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Speaker 1: the industry with the highest shareholder yield is the airlines Franco.

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Speaker 1: What if you could just offer a little story or

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Speaker 1: an anecdote about how you came to create jets because

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Speaker 1: you have a background as really an expert in the

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Speaker 1: world of commodities, and obviously jets do use fuel, so

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Speaker 1: that's a commodity. But you've got a background. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot about the gold mining industry, a lot about

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Speaker 1: the commodities in business. How did you come to put

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Speaker 1: together jets? Well, it's called yours Global, and I'm traveling

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Speaker 1: all the time, and I have millions of miles in

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Speaker 1: all these airlines, and I noticed that all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden my options had dropped by say to fly to

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Speaker 1: New York or go here and go there, And the

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Speaker 1: prices of my tickets started to escalate. And I had

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Speaker 1: a look at travel costs and I said, well, is

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Speaker 1: there any t F. I've got to getting this et

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Speaker 1: F business, and is there any t F? There's no,

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Speaker 1: there's no product for that. There was one that's shut down,

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Speaker 1: but there was really nothing there. So I went out

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Speaker 1: and said, what's the biggest inverse relationship? And its energy

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Speaker 1: prices and energy prices fall, uh than these stocks take

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Speaker 1: off with profit margin. And that's why I created It's

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Speaker 1: so it came from personal experience. It wasn't as if

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Speaker 1: you were, you know, plugging numbers into a computer or uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, going out and finding what everybody would want.

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Speaker 1: It was your own personal experience. Well except that you

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Speaker 1: said something that was really compelling to me, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, you wanted to get into the e t

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Speaker 1: F business. And this has sort of been a theme

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Speaker 1: that we have heard from our asset managers across the board.

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Speaker 1: You just wrote a column about this from about Deutsche

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Speaker 1: Bank offering a lower fee e t F. So I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm curious about yet. So it started last year, correct? Correct?

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Speaker 1: And um, it still hasn't climbed to that sort of

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Speaker 1: key hundred million dollar asset mark. What's the challenge for

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Speaker 1: you with fundraising for an et F? A new one? Well,

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Speaker 1: actually is one of the best launches because it quickly

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Speaker 1: went to fifty million dollars. Uh. And what I found

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Speaker 1: on the travels was that everyone would quote that wanted

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Speaker 1: to be negative on the industry was Warren Buffett. Warren

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Speaker 1: Buffett said the fastest way to lose your money is

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Speaker 1: put a million dollars in, you lose it in the

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Speaker 1: airline's industry, and it was such a negative. He has

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Speaker 1: such a powerful force of people reluctant to go in

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Speaker 1: the industry. Now that he's changed his tune, because the

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Speaker 1: CEOs are buying back their stock, increasing their dividend and

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Speaker 1: UH and the bearers to entry are very high. It's

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Speaker 1: it's next to impossible to create a new airport, so

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Speaker 1: it's a moat stock. So now that Warren Buffett is

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Speaker 1: more positive on airline stocks, have you noticed a surge

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Speaker 1: of investor interests? Absolutely, we had to create the other day.

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Speaker 1: That's new money coming in. And I feel that the

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Speaker 1: factors that we said, if if you look at the

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Speaker 1: industrial category at which which airline shows up in, and

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Speaker 1: if you looked at h transportations such as trains and trucks,

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Speaker 1: they traded fifteen to eighteen times earnings, best trade at

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Speaker 1: six returns on investor capital. They are four times greater

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Speaker 1: than trains and trucks. So this is the most compelling

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Speaker 1: industry and two million people fly day America. The index

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Speaker 1: that you use in order to create the actual exchange

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Speaker 1: traded fund how did you come to select that? What's

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Speaker 1: called a smart beta one and two. I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: the two, But the smart beta one is that we

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Speaker 1: went and did all these thousands of hours of looking

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Speaker 1: at what factors are the best to deal with the crisis.

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Speaker 1: The airlines went through they went through bankruptcy, they came

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Speaker 1: out of it. Why does Southwest not go through it?

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Speaker 1: What were their their financial factors that helped pick those stocks?

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Speaker 1: And so then we did. We created five factors and

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Speaker 1: that's how we picked them. Then we basically played what's

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Speaker 1: called Prado's law. And the stocks are American UH and

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Speaker 1: United Continental, Delta State West Americans and they dominated, but

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Speaker 1: the smaller names are foreign. So seventy of the names

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Speaker 1: are actually foreign capped that one. So it's a very

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Speaker 1: efficient way of capturing global growth. So now the industry

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Speaker 1: is expected to make UH. The industry globally is gonna

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Speaker 1: do with seven forty billion and revenue the whole world,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to make about thirty six billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in the world. America's eighteen billion of it. You know,

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Speaker 1: one thing that still sticks out my mind is there

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Speaker 1: still is this race for lower cost airlines and sort

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Speaker 1: of a race to the bottom. I mean, how much

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Speaker 1: does that factor into the calculation? You just you just

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Speaker 1: don't want to pay to use the overhead been in

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Speaker 1: the United extra extra economy. Well, I'm just saying, which

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Speaker 1: they just announced still happen in two thousand seventy. This

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Speaker 1: has been the main tension, right, is that a lot

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Speaker 1: of airlines are concerned that they can't get the prices

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Speaker 1: up and stay up with just based on the competition, right,

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Speaker 1: based on the sort of race to the bottom, not

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Speaker 1: always a race to the bottom. But I think that's

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Speaker 1: is becoming an ologopoly. Uh. And I think that when

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Speaker 1: you go look even for pricing of tickets between American

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Speaker 1: United it's very difficult, a big differential. Uh. And it's

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Speaker 1: called yield management software and algorithm that is used for

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Speaker 1: stock trading for trading is now being used for pricing

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Speaker 1: of these tickets. So I think that they have tremendous

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Speaker 1: pricing uh collaboration using technology. It's not you and I

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Speaker 1: call and talk to each other, but it's technology, so

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Speaker 1: it's not colluding if there's some sort of technological uh intermediary.

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Speaker 1: The same thing with front running. It was a it

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Speaker 1: was an algorithm that can see things faster and jump

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Speaker 1: in front of your order. It's not front running. Frank Holmes,

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Speaker 1: what's the nicest flight you've been on recently? People notice

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Speaker 1: that people come up to and say you're the jets Man.

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Speaker 1: Not yet at least to do for the gold End,

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Speaker 1: but on the jets and I would say that Delta

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Speaker 1: right now is a most price competitive and gives me

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Speaker 1: the most options. What's interesting because they are testing coach

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Speaker 1: meals in coach free, so they're going in the other direction.

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Speaker 1: And they were the first buyer refinery to to control

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Speaker 1: their energy. Refiner. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P

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Speaker 1: and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews

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Speaker 1: at iTunes, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm

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Speaker 1: pim Fox. I'm out there on Twitter at pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: I'm out there on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one

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Speaker 1: before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.