Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're celebrating
Speaker 1: Lily Johannes officially declaring for the US women's national team
Speaker 1: over the Netherlands.
Speaker 2: By screaming if you're Dutch, you ain't much.
Speaker 1: In the general direction of the land of tulips and windmills.
Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, November twelfth, and on today's show, we'll be
Speaker 1: talking to ESPN Soccer reporter Jeff cassoof about why he
Speaker 1: doesn't love the NWSL's expanded playoff format, what to expect
Speaker 1: in the NWSL semifinals, and how.
Speaker 2: Long is too long for a var review? Wait is
Speaker 2: Alex saying atm machine vaar, Hey, Sarah, the R stands
Speaker 2: for referee perfect.
Speaker 1: Plus, we're going to celebrate nationality declarations and the return
Speaker 1: of camp season that is PWHL camp. It's all coming
Speaker 1: up right after this Welcome back slices. Here's what you
Speaker 1: need to know today.
Speaker 2: To the WNBA.
Speaker 1: Former Los Angeles Sparks head coach Kurt Miller is headed
Speaker 1: to Dallas. Miller was hired by the Wings to service
Speaker 1: the franchise's new GM and execut vice president of basketball operations.
Speaker 1: Miller was fired by the Los Angeles Sparks shortly after
Speaker 1: the season ended, a shocking move given the injury depleted
Speaker 1: roster that he worked with. Rookie star Cameron Brink tore
Speaker 1: her acl early in the season, sharpshooter Lexi Brown sat
Speaker 1: for more than half the season dealing with Crohn's disease,
Speaker 1: and point guard Leisia Clarendon sat out for the latter
Speaker 1: half of the season due to mental health as well.
Speaker 1: The news means that Miller is off the table for
Speaker 1: the several W teams currently in search of a head coach.
Speaker 1: Per ESPN's Alexa Philippoo, multiple WNBA teams did express interest
Speaker 1: in Miller before he signed with the Wings. More w,
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Links announced Monday that they're losing two members
Speaker 1: of their staff. Assistant coach and two time WNBA champion
Speaker 1: Katie Smith is leaving the franchise to head back to
Speaker 1: her alma mater, Ohio State, where she'll serve as an
Speaker 1: assistant on head coach Kevin mcguff's staff and Links Gmclaire
Speaker 1: Dewillius is departing to serve as executive vice president and
Speaker 1: general manager of the new unrival league founded by Link
Speaker 1: starn OFFISA Kallier and New York Liberty star Brienna Stewart.
Speaker 1: This leaves two big holes for the franchise to fill
Speaker 1: after an electrifying season that ended in a loss to
Speaker 1: the Liberty in the WNBA Finals. A little citizenship news,
Speaker 1: so to speak, Soccer phenom Lily Johannes has committed to
Speaker 1: playing for the US national team moving forward. The seventeen
Speaker 1: year old was born in Virginia, but her family moved
Speaker 1: to the Netherlands in twenty seventeen, and she'd been contemplating
Speaker 1: representing the Dutch instead. She made her US women's national
Speaker 1: team debut and a friendly against South Korea in June,
Speaker 1: playing and scoring in the three to zero victory. But
Speaker 1: FIFA rules do allow players to switch their competitive nationality
Speaker 1: so long as they don't play more than three competitive
Speaker 1: games at the senior level before the age of twenty one.
Speaker 1: Addressing her decision to declare for the US women's national
Speaker 1: team on social media Monday, Johannes wrote, quote, the US
Speaker 1: is my homeland, my birthplace, and where my extended family resides.
Speaker 1: These strong connections have driven me to honor my roots
Speaker 1: and proudly commit to US soccer.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: Johannes is a certified phenom. In April of last year,
Speaker 1: she became the youngest female professional in AJAX history, which
Speaker 1: she signed a three year contract with the Dutch club
Speaker 1: through June twenty twenty six, and at sixteen years old,
Speaker 1: she became the youngest player to ever start a YUEFA
Speaker 1: Women's Champion League group match last year. Johannes's declaration to
Speaker 1: the US comes less than a month before the US
Speaker 1: women's national team visits the Netherlands for a friendly to hockey.
Speaker 1: We mentioned yesterday that Canada defeated the US on Sunday
Speaker 1: to take a two to one lead in their five
Speaker 1: game rivalry series. Four different Canadians found the back of
Speaker 1: the net in that four to one win. Looking ahead,
Speaker 1: the rivalry series now takes a pause so players can
Speaker 1: head back to college or off to p WHL training camps,
Speaker 1: which begin today. The final two games of the rivalry
Speaker 1: series between the US and Canada will be played in February,
Speaker 1: and we're going to get you ready for season two
Speaker 1: of the PWHL later this week. In sponsorship news, basketball
Speaker 1: player Alissa Peelely, who just finished her rookie season with
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Lynx, has been named the official face of
Speaker 1: Nike's N seven collection for Native American Heritage month. Peelee,
Speaker 1: who also recently signed down to play Athletes Unlimited basketball
Speaker 1: this winter, is of Simone and Alaskan and New Piat descent.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, certainly quicker than
Speaker 1: a var review in the NWSL when we come back.
Speaker 1: It's the ESPN's Jeff Casoof.
Speaker 2: Joining us now.
Speaker 1: He's been covering soccer with an emphasis on advancing the
Speaker 1: women's game since two thousand and eight. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, he launched The Equalizer, of the leading website
Speaker 1: dedicated exclusively to comprehensive women's soccer coverage in North America.
Speaker 1: He joined ESPN about eight months ago to become the
Speaker 1: outlet's lead NWSL and US Women's national team reporter.
Speaker 2: He's a big fan of Fall Foliage.
Speaker 1: But that's about as much personal info as you'll find
Speaker 1: on him online.
Speaker 2: He is very secretive. It's Jeff Kasoof.
Speaker 3: What's up, Jeff, Thank you for having me. I don't
Speaker 3: know about secretive, but I guess I'm a bit mysterious
Speaker 3: by that description.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you maybe just keep it real business online. And
Speaker 1: I'm an oversharer. So that's when I go digging for
Speaker 1: personal info. Couldn't find much. The good news is you're
Speaker 1: here to talk soccer, and I know you could do that.
Speaker 3: And it is you can do that book.
Speaker 2: See, there we go, There we go.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk quarter final. We just witnessed a bunch
Speaker 1: of those games. New format this year, playoffs expanded from
Speaker 1: six to eight teams. All the top seeded teams won.
Speaker 1: But do you think opening playoff weekend affirmed or rejected
Speaker 1: that expansion?
Speaker 3: Oh? I think it rejected. I mean I was anti
Speaker 3: expansion the moment that this came. I think, I mean
Speaker 3: we had a clear top four in this league. And
Speaker 3: you know, I think, for as a neutral, especially if
Speaker 3: you're the league, I think, as you're trying to put
Speaker 3: on an entertaining product in the final, those top four
Speaker 3: teams have been clear far and above the rest of
Speaker 3: the league. You know, I think eight teams out of
Speaker 3: four team going through. Look, I mean the games were competitive,
Speaker 3: right for the most part. BFC was on a nice
Speaker 3: run heading into the playoffs, nearly pulled an upset, got
Speaker 3: it to extra time. I think we got off to
Speaker 3: a really difficult start on Friday, night with Chicago just
Speaker 3: getting absolutely throttled by Orlando. Granted a historic Orlando team,
Speaker 3: but I mean you look at that, that's the eight
Speaker 3: seed that has never existed before. It's a sub five
Speaker 3: hundred team. You will find. For me that whether it's
Speaker 3: playoffs or like the general pool of teams going beyond sixteen,
Speaker 3: I'm not in favor of endless expansion because I think
Speaker 3: it has a lot of ramifications.
Speaker 1: It does feel like though there's a benefit in terms
Speaker 1: of like being able to sell tickets, get excitement around
Speaker 1: a playoff game, use that to motivate fans to return
Speaker 1: later after they've been to a playoff game and the
Speaker 1: energy is so high.
Speaker 2: I mean, as a league.
Speaker 1: That's trying to continue to grow, it feels like it
Speaker 1: was a win in that sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, we had a
Speaker 3: record crowd at Gotham at Red Bull Arena, you know,
Speaker 3: spirit game looked really full and really raucous. You know,
Speaker 3: I think the good crowds throughout Kansas City has been
Speaker 3: doing that all year. In Orlando, I think even for Orlando,
Speaker 3: you know, typically for their history, a pretty good crowd
Speaker 3: at eleven thousand plus. So you're right, I mean, I
Speaker 3: think and it's look. I mean, yes, the league expanded,
Speaker 3: so that's part of it. But they've got four TV
Speaker 3: partners now too, right, And I think, you know, I
Speaker 3: think it's very clear that the simultaneous announcement last year
Speaker 3: of the new TV part and the expansion of the playoffs,
Speaker 3: there's no separate in the two. I mean, this is
Speaker 3: more TV games. It's good for TV. It's good for
Speaker 3: teams to play more games. So I get it from
Speaker 3: a business perspective. From a soccer purist perspective, I'm not
Speaker 3: in love with it.
Speaker 1: When we look ahead, though, is it possible that it
Speaker 1: will make a difference for top teams not having a
Speaker 1: buye We used to see teams with buys get upset,
Speaker 1: So maybe that continued play and lack of rest will
Speaker 1: actually be a benefit moving forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a good point. I mean, we
Speaker 3: see all four teams advance, all four higher seeds advanced,
Speaker 3: so you know, I think there was always a struggle.
Speaker 3: And then we'll be going forward to with a disruption
Speaker 3: to team seasons, and part of that has been not
Speaker 3: only the bye week, but in the past the you know,
Speaker 3: and ongoing the FIFA International Windows that fall roughly around
Speaker 3: when the playoffs start. The league decided this year it
Speaker 3: would be awkward to have a FIFA window in the
Speaker 3: middle of the playoffs, let's start them after that window.
Speaker 3: This window, I think, if I'm remembering it right, is
Speaker 3: a little bit earlier than it has been in the
Speaker 3: past anyway, so that helped. But yeah, I think you
Speaker 3: know that disruption has been a problem for teams in
Speaker 3: the past, and it's been really hard to pull off
Speaker 3: the shield double with the championship and Orlando now I
Speaker 3: think has maybe the best shot of anybody in a
Speaker 3: while since those Courage teams of twenty eighteen nineteen, So
Speaker 3: we'll see how that plays off. This is also probably
Speaker 3: the most competitive semi final round that I can remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you mentioned, there was a very clear top
Speaker 1: four and we're going to see them all battling. Before
Speaker 1: we move on to the semis, let's quickly talk about
Speaker 1: what we saw in the quarterfinals. You mentioned the Pride
Speaker 1: win over the Red Stars four to one opened up
Speaker 1: the weekend.
Speaker 2: We got a brace for Barbara Banda.
Speaker 1: She hasn't gotten as much attention with a quieter second half,
Speaker 1: but obviously still very effective.
Speaker 2: What makes Barbara Banda so dangerous.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, she's she's got the pace right
Speaker 3: that I think is a little bit too cliche, but
Speaker 3: it's it's been a problem for everybody. But I think
Speaker 3: you know, she is a pure finisher too, I mean
Speaker 3: technically speaking, that is, you know, I think we see
Speaker 3: it when whether she's one v one with a defender
Speaker 3: and you know she beats them on the dribble, if
Speaker 3: she's one v one in the open field, obviously on
Speaker 3: a through ball, and then in front of net I mean,
Speaker 3: I think we've seen some creative finishes from her. So yes,
Speaker 3: I mean there's the speed side, sure, but there's also
Speaker 3: the technical ability that she's been able to show off
Speaker 3: in this league, and I think, you know, in a
Speaker 3: way that has been really good for the wider world.
Speaker 3: I think because we've seen her with Zambia and you know,
Speaker 3: we've seen that capability, but then playing in China in
Speaker 3: a league that you know is really off the radar,
Speaker 3: it's not a major league. I mean, players have made
Speaker 3: their way there for various reasons, including you know, maybe
Speaker 3: pay that they weren't getting elsewhere. But now we see
Speaker 3: her in arguably the best league in the world, and
Speaker 3: she's regularly beating the best defenders, which I think is
Speaker 3: a testament to her quality.
Speaker 2: Overall, Probe have been so dominant this year. What is
Speaker 2: their weakness?
Speaker 1: If you're facing them, where are you looking to try
Speaker 1: to expose them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think one. I mean we saw it
Speaker 3: with Chicago didn't get the midfield right at all, and
Speaker 3: I think that was a problem and that led to
Speaker 3: those transition moments. I mean, you look at that goal,
Speaker 3: I guess you'd say the backbreaking goal right before halftime,
Speaker 3: and Emily Sam steps in, it's a win in midfield.
Speaker 3: She plays a through ball to band Us, She's one
Speaker 3: v one with Carrie Riccaro, and that's it. So I
Speaker 3: think you've really got to win that midfield battle. And look,
Speaker 3: I mean the Kansas City rematch. We saw this right
Speaker 3: in the rematch that they played in Orlando less than
Speaker 3: two months ago, or about two months ago, a nil
Speaker 3: nil draw where it was not the first meeting. When
Speaker 3: these two teams were unbeaten in June in Kansas City,
Speaker 3: it was a chess match between them. Neither of them
Speaker 3: wanted to give up too much of those transition moments,
Speaker 3: so they both played pretty conservatively, especially for how they've
Speaker 3: played throughout the season. So I think if you're Kansas City,
Speaker 3: I mean that's your blueprint, that's your template is you know,
Speaker 3: maybe this wasn't necessarily us, but you know, we played
Speaker 3: a more defensive mindset and we were able to really
Speaker 3: offset Orlando in the midfield, and then obviously that has
Speaker 3: the knock on effect to Banda to Marta, to Ali Watt,
Speaker 3: whoever's running on the wings. So I think that's really
Speaker 3: it is staying compact, winning the midfield, and then look
Speaker 3: for the moments in transition, and frankly, that's how both
Speaker 3: of these teams win games. So it'll be it'll be
Speaker 3: a moment of magic in that semi final, and whether
Speaker 3: that's Chewinga for Kansas City or Bandit for Orlando, we'll see.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the Casey Current and they squeezed past the
Speaker 1: North Carolina Courage on Saturday Golden Boot winner. As you
Speaker 1: mentioned Tim with Chwenga the lone goal scorer in that one,
Speaker 1: shetalit in the eighth minute and then just kind of
Speaker 1: stuck there.
Speaker 2: Were you surprised it was as tight as it was.
Speaker 3: No, I think this was the one game that I
Speaker 3: really felt. I mean, Bay, yes, in the game that
Speaker 3: we'll talk about with Washington, but I think you know,
Speaker 3: this was the four or five game, a sixteen point
Speaker 3: gap between four and five, which I think was pretty
Speaker 3: noticeable in many ways and really defined this table throughout
Speaker 3: the season. But not surprising. I mean, it played out
Speaker 3: the way I think we would have expected in that
Speaker 3: Kansas City had their moments, they had transition moments. How
Speaker 3: many of them were they going to finish? I think
Speaker 3: was the question, not if? And for North Carolina, I
Speaker 3: mean they kept the ball throughout the match. This was
Speaker 3: through and through their identity throughout the season. I mean
Speaker 3: I asked that coach Shawn Dejas before or the game,
Speaker 3: do you do you stray from that identity at all?
Speaker 3: And very firmly said, we do not. This is who
Speaker 3: we are and we saw that in the game. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think the problem with the Courage throughout the season
Speaker 3: has been they haven't had a finisher, or really proven finisher,
Speaker 3: a multi you know, a double digit goal scorer that
Speaker 3: could finish these opportunities for them, and it's cost them
Speaker 3: games because they keep the ball and they don't they
Speaker 3: don't have the final product, you know, and then I
Speaker 3: think you can point to the absence of MVP last
Speaker 3: year's MVP Caroline, who was in this game, in this
Speaker 3: game probably more minutes than she should ever could have played,
Speaker 3: just to try to get the result. And ultimately I
Speaker 3: think it really did play out how we expected. Is
Speaker 3: Kansas City in transition North Carolina keeping the ball and
Speaker 3: like so many times this season, didn't find the breakthrough.
Speaker 1: Afterwards, Lacko and Tanowski talked about the courage targeting Temwa
Speaker 1: not getting the calls.
Speaker 2: Do you see that when you're watching the game.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you do in some ways. You know,
Speaker 3: I think I'd have to check again when I look
Speaker 3: right after the game when he said that she actually
Speaker 3: only had one foul suffered on the stat platform I
Speaker 3: was looking at. But you see it in I think
Speaker 3: maybe to his point in ways where she doesn't get
Speaker 3: a foul called, And you know, I think that there's
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of layers there, right. I
Speaker 3: think there's inconsistencies in the refereeing in the league period.
Speaker 3: There is you know, is she getting special treatment? Is
Speaker 3: she not? Is you know, a number of factors I
Speaker 3: think you can point to it. I know a number
Speaker 3: of teams have pointed to. I mean, I think one
Speaker 3: of her best qualities, beyond the very obvious goal scoring,
Speaker 3: is how she's progressed as I guess a team player
Speaker 3: for lack of a better term, in her tracking back defensively.
Speaker 3: I mean you'll see her at times near her own
Speaker 3: end line helping out her full back and we've seen that, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think people pointed to and again I
Speaker 3: don't think there was a problem with this tackle, but
Speaker 3: like she was the one who put in the tackle
Speaker 3: on Trinity Rodman a month or so ago where it
Speaker 3: caused Rodman's back spasms. I think those were generally coincidence,
Speaker 3: those those two incidents or the net effect of them.
Speaker 3: But you know, I think he's got a fair point.
Speaker 3: I think people have a fair point in reverse as well,
Speaker 3: that you know, she's a defensive forward who I think
Speaker 3: can you give it as much as she can take
Speaker 3: it at times?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes it might be just subconsciously, right if
Speaker 1: we're used to seeing those strikers that sort of set
Speaker 1: up top and they're the ones handling the ball, and
Speaker 1: it's they're the ones taking fouls versus when she gets
Speaker 1: back there on the defensive side. You start to sort of,
Speaker 1: even if it's subconsciously, see her as more of that
Speaker 1: give than take her, and maybe you don't give her
Speaker 1: as many of those protected, sort of favored calls that
Speaker 1: you might otherwise.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about you mentioned the Spirit.
Speaker 1: Game they won two to one over BFC and own goal,
Speaker 1: ending the year for the plucky expansion side. Never a
Speaker 1: way you want your season to end. But what did
Speaker 1: you see from the Bay in year one that you liked?
Speaker 3: Well? I like the back half of the season, certainly
Speaker 3: as putting it all together, and that was the defensive piece.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, Abby dal Kemper, a US international World
Speaker 3: Cup winner, arrives in late August, and you know, scores
Speaker 3: in her first game, and immediately you know you can't
Speaker 3: credit everything to Abbidal Kemper, right, but there's a tangible
Speaker 3: sort of parallel here with a turn in fortunes for Bay.
Speaker 3: And you know they spent they spent over a million dollars,
Speaker 3: they spent a world record transfer fee and Rachel Kuinananji
Speaker 3: a million dollars dollars, you know, in some in that
Speaker 3: winter offseason heading into their first season as an expansion team,
Speaker 3: and you know they very much define themselves coming into
Speaker 3: the season as an entertaining, attacking team. They were going
Speaker 3: to score goals, and then the problem was they gave
Speaker 3: up so many and they couldn't win games. They couldn't
Speaker 3: even draw games for almost the entirety of the season.
Speaker 3: So what I liked from them in this back half
Speaker 3: of the season was finding a defensive balance. Those pieces
Speaker 3: are there, I mean a seaside Oshawala, Rachel Kinananji. They've
Speaker 3: got their first season under their belts in this league.
Speaker 3: This league is always a bit of an adjustment, even
Speaker 3: for high quality internationals for the most part, and I
Speaker 3: think you take that, you balance it with that defensive piece,
Speaker 3: which I think you have to see Abby dal Kempe
Speaker 3: as the core and the spine of it. And then
Speaker 3: you get those midfield pieces Kiki Pickett, you know, you
Speaker 3: get Alex Luera back hopefully healthy for a full season
Speaker 3: after an early season injury test body you know, I
Speaker 3: think did really well for them. So I think you've
Speaker 3: got the pieces there and now it's a matter of
Speaker 3: putting together complete performances, as they mostly did in the
Speaker 3: back half of the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't a great outing for the spirit but
Speaker 1: they got the win.
Speaker 2: What did they need to improve before this weekend?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think they were frustrated defensively to
Speaker 3: your point, I mean, you know, Rodman is the game changer.
Speaker 3: I think this is the time of year where you
Speaker 3: look at at those players and we've talked about showinga
Speaker 3: and Banda. I mean Rodman, I think maybe a slightly
Speaker 3: distant third in an MVP race, but was certainly had
Speaker 3: her name in that in many ways, and is the
Speaker 3: is the sort of entertaining player, certainly American in this
Speaker 3: league and among the best, you know, among any players
Speaker 3: in this league. So she can change games on her own.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, obviously it's a lot of pressure
Speaker 3: to put that on her in a playoff game, but
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's in some ways what playoffs are about.
Speaker 3: So I think getting her on the ball more. And
Speaker 3: then that midfield, you know, I think Bay was really
Speaker 3: able to stay compact and frustrate that spirit midfield at times.
Speaker 3: So you know, finding a way to get through against Frankly,
Speaker 3: I mean a Gotham team that I know we'll talk about,
Speaker 3: but that is a strength of their So it's going
Speaker 3: to be a tough one. For the spirit for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about them. Rose Level ends up being
Speaker 2: the hero.
Speaker 1: Her stoppage time goal helps Gotham get past Portland in
Speaker 1: the last game of the weekend. Tieranna Davidson good timing
Speaker 1: for her first goal of the NWSL year in the
Speaker 1: victory too. How confident are you that this Gotham team
Speaker 1: can repeat coming from a very different position last year,
Speaker 1: the surprise coming out of six this year, they've got
Speaker 1: all the pressure on them to try to get it
Speaker 1: back to back years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, as good a shot as anybody in
Speaker 3: this top four. I think. I think we really are
Speaker 3: seeing a semi final round here where any of these
Speaker 3: four are going to be worthy champions. Any of these four.
Speaker 3: I think the margins will be really fine on the day.
Speaker 3: And you know we saw from Gotham in this quarterfinal
Speaker 3: against Portland. Yes, they left it late, very late in
Speaker 3: stoppage time that I think we've only had because of
Speaker 3: a dubiously long var review.
Speaker 2: But dubiously long.
Speaker 1: That play was like half a second long, and it
Speaker 1: took like eleven minutes to review.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean I went back and counted the
Speaker 3: morning after here and it was six minutes almost of
Speaker 3: review and for something that you know by the letter
Speaker 3: of the law. Even on the call on TV was
Speaker 3: pretty clear because this happened earlier in the season with
Speaker 3: an in important game and pro came out and said
Speaker 3: we got it wrong.
Speaker 1: So right, this was the Becky sower Brun potential handball
Speaker 1: call that in case people don't know what we're.
Speaker 3: Talking about, so probably forever. Yeah, more cut and dry.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but Gotham in this game. I mean, look,
Speaker 3: I know the score line and the Lake goal, but
Speaker 3: for me, Gotam controlled this game. I thought Neilie Martin
Speaker 3: was really impressive in that sort of lone holding midfield
Speaker 3: role she has been. I mean, that's the story, right,
Speaker 3: is Rooseveltierna Davidson. They are those big names that came
Speaker 3: over in the offseason and they've gotten all the attention
Speaker 3: among others this season for Gotham. But Gotham's got this done.
Speaker 3: Not just twenty six deep, but I mean, I was
Speaker 3: out in San Antonio the other week They're signing seven
Speaker 3: players just to get a roster fielded for a Cup final.
Speaker 3: They've gone really deep this year, and it's players like Martin,
Speaker 3: It's players like Delaney Sheehan coming off the bench having
Speaker 3: that assist for the game winner six minutes later in
Speaker 3: stoppage time, and they found the depth, they found the balance,
Speaker 3: and they've got the momentum. So I think as good
Speaker 3: a shot as anybody at this for a championship.
Speaker 1: Before we move on from that final game, for Christine Sinclair,
Speaker 1: there was a feeling that maybe Portland could come up
Speaker 1: with some magic to try to sort of win one
Speaker 1: for the Gipper style. Can you put in perspective for
Speaker 1: us just what Christine Sinclair did for the game, how
Speaker 1: much she achieved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's tough to do that, right, I think, Yeah,
Speaker 3: eleven years in Portland, I think that is sort of even.
Speaker 3: That is a small piece of it, but is a
Speaker 3: big piece of it for her, and that you know,
Speaker 3: she was a founding member of the Thorns and helped
Speaker 3: define that franchise, which is arguably the most successful in
Speaker 3: the league obviously for Canada. Has been the face of
Speaker 3: a country for two decades plus, and you know, world
Speaker 3: leading goalscorer internationally, and I think you know all while
Speaker 3: doing so, and you know all of those incredible stats
Speaker 3: and I think you know this is is maybe a
Speaker 3: little bit cheesy, but like, you know, we talk about it, right,
Speaker 3: it is like how do people talk about you? And
Speaker 3: you know, kind of the humble superstar. I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't think you can find a person who can say
Speaker 3: a bad thing about Christine Sinclair. And you know, I
Speaker 3: think just right down to the very end. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, we we waited a long time after the
Speaker 3: game to try to just talk to her for a
Speaker 3: couple of minutes. And you know, even in asking her
Speaker 3: about sort of the end for her, the entirety of
Speaker 3: her answers straight to the team and losing the game.
Speaker 3: And that's just her in a nutshell, even despite being
Speaker 3: you know, world leading goal scorer and all those.
Speaker 2: Things Canadians Canadian truly.
Speaker 1: Also, in honor of her retirement, I think we should
Speaker 1: finally fix the internet. So when you search who is
Speaker 1: the highest goal scorer in international soccer history, you've fucking
Speaker 1: stopped getting dudes and start getting Christine Sinclair at the
Speaker 1: top of the page.
Speaker 2: It's so infuriating.
Speaker 1: Temwa, Barbara Banda, Ossi, Sadoshwala, who you mentioned, Rachel Kundananji.
Speaker 1: You're looking at some of the goal scorers in this
Speaker 1: opening round. You're looking at some of the big names
Speaker 1: in this opening round, and it's a reminder of so
Speaker 1: many high quality African players joining this league and becoming
Speaker 1: instant game changers. How has the arrival of those African
Speaker 1: players really changed the NWSL.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think, you know, in some ways
Speaker 3: maybe a missing piece for these top teams. Orlando's a
Speaker 3: team that I think had a lot of pieces in
Speaker 3: place last year to build a foundation for what they're
Speaker 3: doing this year. Never in my lifetime what I've I
Speaker 3: expected to say that the Orlando Pride would start a
Speaker 3: game twenty a season, twenty three games unbeaten. But I
Speaker 3: mean what they lacked was probably a proven goal scorer.
Speaker 3: And there it is in Bando with thirteen goals in
Speaker 3: the season in the regular season, and you know, temwichowinga
Speaker 3: obviously breaking Sam Kurz record. Again, I don't know that
Speaker 3: it was a record that I felt like would never fall,
Speaker 3: especially as we've expanded the league and the season, but
Speaker 3: it's been there for a while and Sam Kerr was
Speaker 3: you know, did what she did in a singular way
Speaker 3: in this league. So you know, tim Wichwinga comes in
Speaker 3: year one and breaks it. You know, I think that
Speaker 3: they've really in many ways those two players alone, but
Speaker 3: but you know, even beyond them, the influx of international
Speaker 3: talent this year has defined the league and it's been
Speaker 3: really quite a response from the World Cup last year
Speaker 3: in a way, and whether they directly correlate or not,
Speaker 3: you know, the US was generally terrible at that World Cup.
Speaker 3: They you know, we came out of that saying, is
Speaker 3: this where everybody turns and says, the NWSL is not
Speaker 3: doing it for us, We need to expand our game
Speaker 3: and go abroad. That really didn't happen, and instead NWSL
Speaker 3: teams brought in international players, and I think the league
Speaker 3: has been many ways doubled down on being arguably the
Speaker 3: best in the world because of that. So I think
Speaker 3: that they've they've helped in that case.
Speaker 1: As a fan of the NWSL, as someone who supports
Speaker 1: all of these investors and folks who are trying to
Speaker 1: make this game bigger here, I am so grateful that's
Speaker 1: the direction it went in, because there was a real
Speaker 1: panic post World Cup about how the US was failing
Speaker 1: on the international level, but also about how if the
Speaker 1: international game started to pass them by, would the exporting
Speaker 1: of players to European leagues or other leagues around the
Speaker 1: world be be more likely than being able to draw
Speaker 1: them in and instead, with the arrival of some of
Speaker 1: these fantastic players and the enthusiasm and excitement around it,
Speaker 1: I think we can say that the NWSL is still
Speaker 1: the best league in the world, or at least still
Speaker 1: competing for the best, and with room to grow now
Speaker 1: that we've seen the results of these players arriving, which
Speaker 1: is great news for growth. Okay, quickly, let's look ahead
Speaker 1: to the Semis Gotham at Washington next Saturday.
Speaker 2: Who's got the edge?
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I like Gotham on momentum. Momentum is
Speaker 3: a bit cliche, I realize, but I you know, pairing
Speaker 3: with that is the fact that they find ways to
Speaker 3: get things done and to the point of not just
Speaker 3: with their superstars, but you know, the depth that they have.
Speaker 3: I mean, Sheham coming off the bench because she was
Speaker 3: dealing with a minor injury, but you know, whether it's
Speaker 3: she Han. We haven't even said yas Ryan yet, who won.
Speaker 3: Carlos Samros head coach was really complimentary of in that midfield,
Speaker 3: so you know, Ryan Martin defensively, they've been really sound,
Speaker 3: despite maybe a couple moments in that quarterfinal and obviously
Speaker 3: maybe escaped with the help of the woodwork. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I like Gotham in that matchup for the run that
Speaker 3: they've been on, the ways they find it, the ways
Speaker 3: they've found to get it done, and you know, Spirit
Speaker 3: on pure talent, I mean, I think this game is
Speaker 3: maybe equal on pure talent if you're looking on paper.
Speaker 3: But I think Gotham has some experience from last year
Speaker 3: and they've got that identity. I mean, the Spirit do
Speaker 3: as well in transition, but Gotham finds ways to control games,
Speaker 3: to win games, and you know, I think that they've
Speaker 3: got all of those pieces in place in a way
Speaker 3: that should get them through to the final.
Speaker 1: We saw pretty rock and home crowd at Audi Field.
Speaker 1: Does that play a difference there for you that the
Speaker 1: Spirit are going to be at home?
Speaker 3: I mean I think it's a factor. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 3: being at Red Bull Arena yesterday, it was the best
Speaker 3: I've ever seen red Bull Arena for a Gotham or
Speaker 3: Skyblue game. It was as the press box is seated,
Speaker 3: as you know, which is the last time it'll ever be.
Speaker 3: Fortunately we're right by the benches, and I mean the
Speaker 3: crowd was on the refereeing crew. I would say the
Speaker 3: Gotham bench was fired up. We had at one point,
Speaker 3: I don't know what the cameras caught, but the Thorns
Speaker 3: were coming out of their technical area to talk to
Speaker 3: the fourth officials. So I would say, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: always hard to tell. It's impossible to know what the
Speaker 3: crowd plays into a referee or otherwise. But like it
Speaker 3: was there in a way that had never been there
Speaker 3: for Red Bull Arena, And I think you could say
Speaker 3: that about Audifield in many ways, at least for you know,
Speaker 3: Audi Field pre Michelle kang Era in a way, you know,
Speaker 3: even though that was growing at a time.
Speaker 2: But right, well, we.
Speaker 1: Talked about on the show yesterday that the crowd for
Speaker 1: the last home playoff game for the Spirit was some
Speaker 1: somewhere around five thousand something, and this was a cell
Speaker 1: at nineteen thousand plus.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a very different space.
Speaker 1: Now, maybe we'll get Magic Johnson back there in one
Speaker 1: of those boxes to high five Trinity if things are
Speaker 1: going well, let's talk about the other one, Orlando hosting
Speaker 1: Kansas City on Sunday. How can case you mentioned this,
Speaker 1: you know, and the Pride's great season, is it really
Speaker 1: just about not making mistakes and allowing the Pride to attack,
Speaker 1: but also finding ways to make them make mistakes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think as simple as that sounds,
Speaker 3: it is because you look at that blueprint of a
Speaker 3: game from September and it really was a little bit
Speaker 3: despite all the talent on both of these teams of
Speaker 3: you make the first move, because each of these teams
Speaker 3: knows how much they can get. You know how effective
Speaker 3: they are in transition and how effective the other team
Speaker 3: is in transition. So if you commit those numbers forward,
Speaker 3: you know you might and you don't score, obviously, you
Speaker 3: can very quickly get countered, and neither of these teams
Speaker 3: you want to be counted by. So I do think
Speaker 3: we could see something very similar to September, which was
Speaker 3: a scoreless draw. I mean, this could go to one
Speaker 3: twenty to PK's potentially. There's so little between these teams,
Speaker 3: right down to that proven goal scorer that is just
Speaker 3: head and shoulders above the rest of the league and
Speaker 3: chewing gun Banda. You've got Marta in midfield, You've got
Speaker 3: a host of other names that would take too long
Speaker 3: to list, right, and Casey has that in midfield as well.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I do think this is going to be
Speaker 3: a game that potentially turns on a moment of a mistake.
Speaker 1: Even Yeah, and Casey of course wants to get to
Speaker 1: the final in their home stadium. Orlando obviously wants to
Speaker 1: actually get the title to cap off a season that's
Speaker 1: already been so spectacular for a team that was sort
Speaker 1: of the laughingstock of the league for such a long time.
Speaker 1: They've got the old win one for Marta to her contract. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we don't know where her future lies after this season.
Speaker 1: I listened to a really fascinating conversation that talked about
Speaker 1: how the lack of relegation in the NWSL and also
Speaker 1: the style of play means that teams usually show up
Speaker 1: for every single game playing their style.
Speaker 2: We don't usually see the way we do an international play.
Speaker 1: When the US is in the World Cup or in
Speaker 1: the Olympics, we talk a lot about the other teams
Speaker 1: choosing to play a certain style knowing that the US
Speaker 1: is a better team, playing super defensive and hoping that
Speaker 1: a mistake will allow them to get some magic, knowing
Speaker 1: that they're outmatched.
Speaker 2: We don't usually see that in the NWSL. But does
Speaker 2: it feel like when you get.
Speaker 1: Down to these playoffs, you will potentially see teams being
Speaker 1: more willing to play outside of their own style in
Speaker 1: order to do what we just talked about with the
Speaker 1: Pride Kansas City game, which is maybe we lay back
Speaker 1: a little bit and hope that we get that opportunity
Speaker 1: and we force them to make a mistake instead of
Speaker 1: going out there with whatever aggressive style woul usually bring
Speaker 1: to a regular season game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'd argue that's happening in ways that
Speaker 3: maybe our sort of novice eyes don't see as much
Speaker 3: in the regular season.
Speaker 2: But you say my novice eyes myself as well.
Speaker 3: Like I mean, listen, I've been on calls where coaches
Speaker 3: definitely don't agree with the assessment that we've had from
Speaker 3: the outside, right, But you know, I think maybe this, Yeah,
Speaker 3: the stakes are a little bit lower in the regular
Speaker 3: season and in ways, but certainly there's an adaptation. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think most coaches will tell you publicly that we
Speaker 3: play our game. We don't you know, we're not going
Speaker 3: to adapt to them, They're going to adapt to us.
Speaker 3: But of course there's an adaptation. Of course, you're going
Speaker 3: to go to an into a game and say, you know,
Speaker 3: we can't give Orlando this piece, we can't give Kansas
Speaker 3: City that part. So I do think, you know, I
Speaker 3: think the coaching Actually, I'm mean I wrote about this
Speaker 3: in the off season, although so how much has changed
Speaker 3: in mid season, including the shocking stuff that like Casey
Speaker 3: Stony not being in San Diego right now is nothing
Speaker 3: I would have predicted eight months ago. But you know,
Speaker 3: the coaching carousel of the offseason really benefited the NWSL
Speaker 3: as well. You've got Jonathan Heraldez coming over from Barcelona. Arguably,
Speaker 3: you know, the most coveted position in the world in
Speaker 3: club football is lord to Washington. Like a lot went
Speaker 3: right there of Lackwananofski returning as Kansas City's head coach,
Speaker 3: and that is really elevated. I think the tactical piece
Speaker 3: of this league in many ways, we talked about North
Speaker 3: Carolina with their possessions, so I actually think that this
Speaker 3: league to counter wherever that point was made a little
Speaker 3: bit like, I think this league doesn't quite get enough
Speaker 3: credit for being more tactically flexible, for the coaching quality
Speaker 3: that exists. And I do think as much as there's
Speaker 3: a tired cliche that we use here about there's only
Speaker 3: two good teams in France and all of that, which
Speaker 3: is becoming a little bit less true. I think it
Speaker 3: happens in reverse too, that the NWSL is only a
Speaker 3: transition league, when I don't I think that's a data
Speaker 3: view to be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we're gonna have to have you back with
Speaker 1: more time to talk about, Like you mentioned, whatever the
Speaker 1: hell is going on with the Wave what other changes
Speaker 1: we hope to see from this league in the off season.
Speaker 1: But we can save all that for the off season
Speaker 1: because we got Semi's coming up, and he did such
Speaker 1: a great job getting us primed and ready for those
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for the time, Jeff, and
Speaker 1: congrats on the gig with ESPN. We love to see
Speaker 1: a dedicated reporter covering all that stuff and bringing us
Speaker 1: the good stuff. So thanks for coming on. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me, Sarah, We got to pay the bills, stick around.
Speaker 2: Welcome back Slices. So last week you.
Speaker 1: May recall my ode to soup season and my request
Speaker 1: that y'all send me recipes. Well, we heard from one
Speaker 1: carrot slice who puts oranges in soup.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Monica Powers wrote quote listening to you while making soup
Speaker 1: for my restaurant, love your show, can't send you recipes
Speaker 1: because they're top secret.
Speaker 2: Okay, well thanks for nothing.
Speaker 1: Monica, anyone, anyone, bueller, supress, send them. Send me your
Speaker 1: delicious vegetarian soup recipes. Please, people not named Monica. You
Speaker 1: don't even have to work in a restaurant to be qualified.
Speaker 1: Send them. And while I'm asking for favors, you guys
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