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Speaker 1: Hey, want to welcome int.

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Speaker 2: I'm Doug Gottlieb.

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Speaker 3: This is all ball.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into some hook discussion and.

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Speaker 3: Future all balls.

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Speaker 2: But we got part two of West Mallette, who, of

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Speaker 2: course is the athletic director of UC Riverside. He saved

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Speaker 2: UC Riverside's program. They were gonna do away with Division

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Speaker 2: one athletics. And if you miss part one you can

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Speaker 2: download or if you download this podcast. But in part

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Speaker 2: two we talk about NIL, how it should work, how

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Speaker 2: it could work, what adjustments could be made. It's all

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Speaker 2: the talk of college athletics. And who better to talk

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Speaker 2: with than a guy who's been on both sides of

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Speaker 2: the aisle, if you will in West Molette.

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Speaker 3: Here's part two of our discussion.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so open up the hood for me here a

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Speaker 2: little bit. You know, we operate in a world where,

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Speaker 2: unless you really know, you think college athletics are just

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Speaker 2: swimming in money, right, swimming? Those aren't tissues you have

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Speaker 2: at your next year desk. That's dollar bills that you

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Speaker 2: wipe your nose with. Right, So let's take up you're

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Speaker 2: in the Big West basketball wif right, what are the

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Speaker 2: what are the challenges like financially because you have you

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Speaker 2: have several right, you have most of the schools are

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Speaker 2: driving to distance, but you have Hawaii in the league.

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Speaker 2: You don't have a gigantic arena. It is on campus,

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Speaker 2: so there's no cost there acceptings in the security, but

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Speaker 2: there's also a limit to what you could make. You

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Speaker 2: don't have the influx of massive TV dollars outside of

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Speaker 2: the Big West tournament.

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Speaker 3: So what what?

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Speaker 2: So if basketball is your one, men's basketball is kind

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Speaker 2: of your only shot to make money correct.

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Speaker 4: At a sizeable level, if you will, I think for

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Speaker 4: every program in the Big West. I can't speak for

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Speaker 4: the rest, but I would, you know, surmise to say that,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's important to be able to get into

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Speaker 4: the tournament and go deep into the tournament, at least

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Speaker 4: one two rounds into the tournament for all of us,

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Speaker 4: you know, I mean, outside of the other revenue generation

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Speaker 4: strategies that people would have. But to your point, you know,

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Speaker 4: specifically men's basketball, and I think it applies anywhere, and

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Speaker 4: it's it's nothing against any of the other sports, but

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Speaker 4: in non football schools, men's basketball tends to be the driver.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And then is there a way to like, how

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Speaker 2: hard is it to just break even with other sports.

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Speaker 4: So just across the board as an athletics programs, it's tough, right.

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Speaker 4: Our deficit isn't really that much in the grand scheme

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Speaker 4: of things, right because it's it's a program that you know,

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Speaker 4: it needs to be funded. Right when you look at

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Speaker 4: men's basketball for US, guarantee games, you know, the games

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Speaker 4: we get paid to go play people bigger schools with

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Speaker 4: bigger budgets are critically important. And for Mike, Megpie and

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Speaker 4: I when we sit down down, our strategy is really,

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Speaker 4: let's do it where we're not crushing the kids, right,

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Speaker 4: but we're also generating enough revenue to help the program,

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Speaker 4: athletics program overall, and men's basketball. Right. So we do

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Speaker 4: about four guarantee games a year, give or take, and

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Speaker 4: we won a good number of them right over the years,

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Speaker 4: going back a few years right before I got here.

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Speaker 4: If you look at the Power four now Power four

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Speaker 4: teams that we built that we've beaten. We beat Washington

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Speaker 4: by fifteen fifty seven forty two neutral syche game in Vegas,

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Speaker 4: We beat cal We beat Nebraska, We beat Arizona State

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Speaker 4: on that buzzer beater that you know everybody remembers from

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Speaker 4: I guess three years two years ago, now we beat

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Speaker 4: LMU being down eighteen, came back and one by one,

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Speaker 4: one by one or two. You know, we played Oregon

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Speaker 4: within five six points two years in a row. We've

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Speaker 4: got a program that's got moxie, you know, and it's

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Speaker 4: it's it's in our women's side. Women. The women have

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Speaker 4: done the same thing over the years. And in softball

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Speaker 4: they've taken down Power five teams as well Power four. Now,

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Speaker 4: you know, even baseball's had one or two wins. The

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Speaker 4: Midweek went against USC last year. Right, So my philosophy

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Speaker 4: and focus is, let's compete, let's play, right. I'm not

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Speaker 4: gonna worry about what they have and what we have

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Speaker 4: or what we don't have that they may have, because

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Speaker 4: you have to have a lots to have some things,

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Speaker 4: the haves and the have nots. Right, And like you

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Speaker 4: talked about with Belzer, it's like this is there's no

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Speaker 4: real middle class in college athletics anymore. Right, it's either

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Speaker 4: have a lot, you may have a little something, or

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Speaker 4: you're you're kind of figuring it out. So when I

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Speaker 4: look at our budget and I look at our program

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Speaker 4: and then what we need to do, those guarantee games

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Speaker 4: are critical. They are important when you look at fan attendance,

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Speaker 4: Like the misnomer that people have is they see a

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Speaker 4: packed house, you know, they see a lot of people

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Speaker 4: in the building, depending on the school. They all assume

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Speaker 4: everybody's operating in the world of Texas and ou and

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Speaker 4: Ohio State in Michigan and so on, and we're not right.

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Speaker 4: We talked about the education model versus the business model.

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Speaker 4: Those programs. When you have you know, fifty sixty seventy

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Speaker 4: ninety hundred thousand set stadiums and you have arenas where

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Speaker 4: you're working to fill those, and you are filling them

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Speaker 4: in a good year, that revenue that comes in is

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Speaker 4: so much different than what we're looking at. We're not

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Speaker 4: looking at. It's not the same model, it's not the

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Speaker 4: same it's not even the same universe in terms of

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Speaker 4: how it works. Having been at CAL having been in

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Speaker 4: the PAC twelve, and having done work for a lot

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Speaker 4: of power for schools over the years as an independent consultant,

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Speaker 4: I can tell you flat out it is. It is

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Speaker 4: a different world now. Not everybody is swimming it like

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Speaker 4: people think they are right. You do have a few

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Speaker 4: commissioners at the highest level and a few ads at

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Speaker 4: the highest level, you know, making seven figures plus. Right,

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Speaker 4: you have a handful of people in the mid to

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Speaker 4: high six figures, but the vast majority of people And

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Speaker 4: I don't I can't say percentages, but if I were

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Speaker 4: to throw it out there, I'd say probably eighty to

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Speaker 4: eighty five percent of those of us who work in

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Speaker 4: college athletics have climbed the ladder, and we're making decent

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Speaker 4: salaries for what we do. But it is not this you.

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Speaker 2: Know, you're not killing it, right, this is not the

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Speaker 2: private sector. You're not like that's it's one of the

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Speaker 2: things that bothers me a great deal. First of all, Like,

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Speaker 2: even if you were making twice what you're making, right,

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Speaker 2: this is twenty years, twenty five years into building a career, correct,

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Speaker 2: you know, with a degree from JMU and all your experience, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's not that still not that much money, Like we

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Speaker 2: don't have a especially living in southern California, correct, with kids. Right,

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Speaker 2: Both we act like it's a bad thing for administrators

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Speaker 2: or coaches to make anything when they had to work.

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Speaker 2: Like you started as a college student athlete and then

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Speaker 2: you work your way up and now you're running.

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Speaker 3: An athletic department, so it's a very weird thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't really understand the kind of shaming of coaches.

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Speaker 2: And look, some of the head coaches salaries are obscene, right,

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Speaker 2: and it's because of the competitive landscape, I get, right,

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Speaker 2: But a lot of like you said, the vast majority

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Speaker 2: of them are pretty reasonable, and especially the we act

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Speaker 2: like administrators are making huge amounts of money and that's

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Speaker 2: just not true, right, And.

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Speaker 4: To your point, I think, like, I'm just going to

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Speaker 4: be fully transparent. Over the course of the next year,

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Speaker 4: You're going to see me out there a lot working,

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Speaker 4: you know, to really shift this narrative, right, because at

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Speaker 4: the mid major level, listen, our reality is like we

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Speaker 4: talk about and I steal this from Earl Edwards, the

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Speaker 4: ad at UC San Diego. We went before the UC

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Speaker 4: regents in January of twenty three at UCLA. We were

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Speaker 4: meeting with them there talking about the UC the University

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Speaker 4: of California student athlete experience and Earle, this is what

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Speaker 4: I'm stealing from Earle. Earle talked about the fact that

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Speaker 4: there is the education model and the business model in

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Speaker 4: college athletics. The vast majority of us are in the

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Speaker 4: education model. This is the model where you know, we

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Speaker 4: don't have big football programs. We've been at schools that

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Speaker 4: have that. You know, all of us have had our

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Speaker 4: fair share at the highest level, at the mid major level.

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Speaker 4: But this is the education model, which is the five

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Speaker 4: UC's and the five cal States in Hawaii, in the

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Speaker 4: Big West, UCLA and CAL and you know Stanford USC.

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Speaker 4: Those there's still education base, but they're much more on

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Speaker 4: the business model side. You're not paying Lincoln Riley what

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Speaker 4: you're paying them, and paying coaches like Lincoln Riley's salary

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Speaker 4: it's probably five x our entire athletics budget right for

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Speaker 4: the whole program, So you're not even in the same

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Speaker 4: universe when you're talking about the financials. But for most

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Speaker 4: people who don't know or understand the college athletic space

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Speaker 4: like you and I do, they're looking at everything through

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Speaker 4: the lens of big football, right. I think I will

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Speaker 4: say this. You know, I heard what Chip Kelly said

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Speaker 4: the other day. He's right right, and this is the

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Speaker 4: thing that people don't want to talk about, But I'll

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Speaker 4: say it. If you were to lop off and I'm

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Speaker 4: a football guy. It helped me in so many aspects

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Speaker 4: of my life. I love the sport like there's no tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: But if you were to lop off the highest level

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Speaker 4: of college football bets think about it. The CFP is

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Speaker 4: not an NCAA championship, right, but it's a however many

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Speaker 4: millions maybe billion dollar industry in and of itself, right

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Speaker 4: with you look at the TV deals, you look at staff,

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Speaker 4: and you look at like advertising, you look at the

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Speaker 4: bowl games, you look at the whole College Football Playoff,

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Speaker 4: everything that goes along with it. There's a lot of

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Speaker 4: money wrapped up in that, right. That money is being

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Speaker 4: made on the backs of the kids who play the sport.

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Speaker 4: Let's really be honest about this now. Okay, administrators at

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Speaker 4: the highest level, commissioners at that highest level, coaches at

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Speaker 4: that level would not be making those exorbitant salaries if

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Speaker 4: it weren't for the kids who are playing the game. Right,

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Speaker 4: you take those kids out of the game, you don't

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Speaker 4: have a product on the field that people are going

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Speaker 4: to pay to go see. And then what right you're

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Speaker 4: at the mind major level, Because you're not, you don't

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Speaker 4: have those that money coming into your call fers. So

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Speaker 4: when you look at where we are now, if we

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Speaker 4: the way to really address, this is, this is a

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Speaker 4: this is and this is what no one wants to

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Speaker 4: really say or talk about. You have to look at

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Speaker 4: this that if you were to take big time college

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Speaker 4: football and make it its own thing. Now I know

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Speaker 4: all the things that we'll go into that, right are

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Speaker 4: the student athletes, employees? Are you looking at you know,

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Speaker 4: you're going to talk about unions and then you're looking

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Speaker 4: at workers comp and you're looking at you know, like

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Speaker 4: you talked about in the in the pod with Bellsert.

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Speaker 4: You're looking at you know, if they're under contract. You know,

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Speaker 4: you've got the title line stuff, stay does it go away?

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Speaker 4: You know you can? Can you fire a kid if

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Speaker 4: they're an employee? All of those things and all of

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Speaker 4: the mess that that is. In my opinion, the reason

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Speaker 4: people don't want to venture down that path is to

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Speaker 4: hide behind amateurism prevents you from having to deal with

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Speaker 4: all that. But it's not going to be that way

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Speaker 4: for long. We're not gonna be able to hide behind

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Speaker 4: that for long because at some point people are going

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Speaker 4: to say the vast majority of people are going to

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Speaker 4: get sucked into this whole thing that's going to destroy

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Speaker 4: opportunities for tens of thousands of student athletes because we're

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Speaker 4: going to have to figure out how to support big

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Speaker 4: time college football on the backs of at the expense

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Speaker 4: of everyone else competing.

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Speaker 3: So okay, okay, so let's let's let's let's talk this

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Speaker 3: thing out of bit. Okay. So okay, So.

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Speaker 2: How many how many big time there's flaws to what

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Speaker 2: ship is saying? Okay, the first thing is what we're

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Speaker 2: dismissing is, hey, the conferences work, and we're in this kind.

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Speaker 3: Of brave new world where the Big ten is become the.

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Speaker 4: Big eight, you know now eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it become this super this super conference.

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Speaker 4: Which we also I mean a couple of years ago

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Speaker 4: where it was going to be two super conferences of

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Speaker 4: eighteen to twenty. And it's trending that way with the

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Speaker 4: SEC in the Big ten, right, and.

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Speaker 2: The and and and you do wonder if the ACC

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Speaker 2: and the Big twelve combined or what what that looks like.

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Speaker 3: Whatever.

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Speaker 2: The issue is that, you know, you have TV companies

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Speaker 2: and I guess you know streaming as well, right, and

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Speaker 2: they lock into deals, right, and obviously there has to

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Speaker 2: be a value there because they keep paying more and

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Speaker 2: more money, at least for the Big ten the SEC,

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Speaker 2: not for the Big twelve that that value hasn't gone up,

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Speaker 2: and not for the ACC that value will not will

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Speaker 2: not gone up.

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Speaker 3: But the question becomes like.

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Speaker 2: How do you if it's if it's if you split

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Speaker 2: it back to east and West, well, it doesn't have

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Speaker 2: the value the West Coast teams again fact with it

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Speaker 2: not having the value, right, Like he's talking about having

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Speaker 2: seven teams in the West. You know that sounds great,

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Speaker 2: but there's a reason that those schools aren't getting a

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Speaker 2: cut or a full cut of the TV revenue initially

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Speaker 2: or maybe ever because they're just not that valuable.

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Speaker 3: And so you still run in the same problem, right.

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Speaker 4: And right, I think I think no, so uh.

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Speaker 3: And then you know, then you have the Okay, so.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about let let's let's begin with the idea

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Speaker 2: of breaking off college football or maybe college football and basketball.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure which you think. Do you do one

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Speaker 3: or do you do both?

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Speaker 4: I think basketball. I think basketball can stay that. Like

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Speaker 4: if you look at the current construct, right and the

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Speaker 4: way everything's out, basketball still competes in the n c

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Speaker 4: with the NCAA Tournament and the way that that runs,

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Speaker 4: you got what sixty eight teams now that can get

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Speaker 4: in and and it's it's a real tournament, right, And

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Speaker 4: it's a tournament where when we've seen this, regardless of

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Speaker 4: your budget, regardless of what resources your athletics program have

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Speaker 4: has every year we see a fifteen sixteen seed, surprise

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Speaker 4: someone and you know, every other year and make a

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Speaker 4: run in the tournament.

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio

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Speaker 1: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to

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Speaker 1: listen live.

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Speaker 2: Okay, can you how hard would it be to break

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Speaker 2: off football?

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Speaker 3: I mean, how do you?

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Speaker 2: Like? Everybody's like, wow, you just break off football? Like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of hard, you know. And this idea of

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Speaker 2: well you do these things so you can avoid Title nine, Like,

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Speaker 2: good luck with that one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that work?

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Speaker 2: So what are what are the realities of what are

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Speaker 2: the possibilities? Because because you kind of work not necessarily

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Speaker 2: for the networks, but on both sides of the aisle,

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Speaker 2: you have a good sense of this thing.

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Speaker 3: What's the realities to what's possible?

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Speaker 4: So I think it's it's well, I will say this,

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Speaker 4: I don't have the answer, right, I think what Chip

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Speaker 4: is talking about is what on a on a baseline level,

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Speaker 4: if you were to lop it off and just create

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Speaker 4: a league, you know, it's basically on the minor league

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Speaker 4: NFL system where you'd have the AFC in the NFC,

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Speaker 4: and you've got the North, the South, you know, the West,

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Speaker 4: the East, you know, central whatever it is now, and

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Speaker 4: you could you could you could group teams geographically, right

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Speaker 4: and then they play, you know, whoever they play.

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Speaker 2: You mean you mean like you mean like the Pac

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Speaker 2: twelve and the Big ten and the Big twelve.

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Speaker 3: Like we just had this ship and everything everybody away with.

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Speaker 4: It, right, we just had it. And that's you know,

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Speaker 4: it's kind of where like now it's like, you know, okay,

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Speaker 4: so what do we what do you do? But I

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Speaker 4: think when it is a football issue, it's a big

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Speaker 4: time football issue. I mean, the realignment is based around

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Speaker 4: football at that level. Right. It's like people aren't, you know,

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Speaker 4: people aren't trying to figure out where they're going for

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Speaker 4: their Olympic sports. The Olympic sports are the casualty or

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Speaker 4: the byproduct of, you know, where the football programs are

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Speaker 4: going to go, because those are the drivers that the

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Speaker 4: Olympic sports, or revenue drivers, the way football is, it

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Speaker 4: would be a different conversation, right, But that's it's the

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Speaker 4: reality of this is driven by football and everybody wanting

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Speaker 4: to make the jump and figure out how to get

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Speaker 4: to the highest level and build a successful program. And

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Speaker 4: there's nothing wrong with that, right, I have no I

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Speaker 4: have no issue with that. I do have issue with

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Speaker 4: the fact that the mid majors and the eleven conferences

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Speaker 4: that were not included in the Division on Transformation Committee.

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Speaker 4: You know, discussions et cetera, et cetera, are to remain

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Speaker 4: Division one. You're getting stucked into that and you're along

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Speaker 4: for the ride, right, you know, there was talk of

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Speaker 4: everything splitting. That talk is still on the table. I

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Speaker 4: think at some point it may. I think that's a reality.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that a lot of programs are just

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Speaker 4: going to go away and just disappear. But I do

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Speaker 4: think that universities are going to be put in a

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Speaker 4: position where the cost of remaining Division one is going

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Speaker 4: to be significant and you're going to have to make

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Speaker 4: decisions as to are we going to do this, are

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Speaker 4: we not? And if we do this, what does that

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Speaker 4: look like? Years ago, we had discussions, you know, circa

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Speaker 4: fourteen fifteen sixteen about because people saw this, this is

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Speaker 4: what's happening right now for those who are in the

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Speaker 4: college athletics space is not a surprise on any level, right.

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Speaker 4: We saw this eventually, this eventuality, you know, coming to fruition.

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Speaker 4: I think when you look at if you look at

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Speaker 4: the title nine piece and you have football, from a

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Speaker 4: financial standpoint, you may be faced with what is a

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Speaker 4: two and eight or two and six model, which is

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Speaker 4: football and men's basketball, and then you pick your other six,

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Speaker 4: right or your other four, And that is what we

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Speaker 4: talked about before, is where you're going to end up

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Speaker 4: with so many student athletes who are no longer affording

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Speaker 4: the opportunity because you're not going to be able to

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Speaker 4: sustain if we're if we're if we're following with chur

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Speaker 4: the Baker put out and we were putting into an

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Speaker 4: endowment for kids at thirty grand a pop, programs aren't

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Speaker 4: gon to be able to keep all their teams if

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Speaker 4: you want to remain Division one, or if you want

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Speaker 4: to remain if you want to sustain your program, it

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Speaker 4: is not financially possible to do that for the vast

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Speaker 4: majority of programs unless you know there's a magic windfall

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Speaker 4: of money that comes in from somewhere, right, you're not

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Speaker 4: gonna be able to do it and be competitive.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, it's so what happens to his proposal.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, because the thing about it is it's

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Speaker 4: kind of like there's there's no other proposal on the

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Speaker 4: table right now, you know. I think here's here's what

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Speaker 4: I think has to happen. I think those of us

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Speaker 4: at the mid major level and those of us not

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Speaker 4: at the top of the food chain, if you will,

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Speaker 4: in the Power five level, those of us meeting the

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Speaker 4: programs because we all move around, right but for where

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Speaker 4: all of these programs are right now, there needs to

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Speaker 4: be a plan of action as to what it's going to,

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Speaker 4: what it needs to look like to preserve amateurism, to

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Speaker 4: preserve the model that we're under in terms of how

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Speaker 4: we provide opportunities for student athletes, you know, educational opportunities

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Speaker 4: through sport, and the true meaning of why we got

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Speaker 4: into this in the first place. This thing has been

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Speaker 4: so muddied by football and the revenue and the TV

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Speaker 4: revenue and everything that goes with it that everybody's been

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Speaker 4: dragged along and the rest of the majority of people

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Speaker 4: who aren't familiar with college athletics don't understand, like, you're

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Speaker 4: literally going to eliminate if this thing goes the way

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Speaker 4: it's going, you're going to eliminate tens of thousands of

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Speaker 4: educational opportunities for student athletes.

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Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, Like listen, I think, So here's

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Speaker 2: my actual read in the football thing, and so you

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Speaker 2: lived it okay at the high major level. I'm more

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Speaker 2: of a casual observe. I'm more of an observer, and

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Speaker 2: of course I've covered it. I personally think the values

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Speaker 2: of the players are bullshit.

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Speaker 3: I just I just thought. But part of it is

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Speaker 3: because the schools.

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Speaker 2: Have never and I understand that the piece that you

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Speaker 2: and I value, the educational piece, has become less value

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Speaker 2: by society and especially less value by members of the media,

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Speaker 2: which becomes kind of like the running narrative. But there

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Speaker 2: still is something very significant to just getting into a

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Speaker 2: school which you couldn't get into if you didn't play

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Speaker 2: college football. You know, and like is always told, like

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Speaker 2: nine nine percent of them, I'm playing pro anyway, and

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Speaker 2: in the NFL it's a very short lived career foremost.

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Speaker 3: And so we're.

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Speaker 2: Moving all of this stuff around dramatically changing for a

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Speaker 2: small portion.

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Speaker 4: Of we're moving around and we're dramatically shifting the landscape

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Speaker 4: to I'll use the words of one of my colleagues

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Speaker 4: in the Big West, all of this started. We started

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Speaker 4: down this path when the salaries and the money got

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Speaker 4: really big for a handful of people. Sure, you know,

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Speaker 4: that's where we're that's where and we're selling like we

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Speaker 4: meaning the collective because we're all even though we may

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Speaker 4: have different missions, right, we're all responsible at the end

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Speaker 4: of the day if we're selling these kids this dream, right,

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Speaker 4: think about this, Doug and I challenge anybody how many

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Speaker 4: people years after they're done playing, what are your stats matter?

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Speaker 4: You know, it's a talking point. It's something you did

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Speaker 4: that helped build you for other things in life. What

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Speaker 4: is like whether you're all conference, all world, all this

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Speaker 4: all that, you know, it's like you can monetize it

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Speaker 4: for a period of time. But we're so hyper focused

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Speaker 4: on the monetization for a handful of people, a handful

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Speaker 4: of people that the rest are all going to be

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Speaker 4: left in behind. And like you talked about before, the

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Speaker 4: rank and file is the eighty five ninety percent of

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Speaker 4: the individuals who will be impacted.

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Speaker 2: Right, So so so you and I we agree, we're

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Speaker 2: pretty lockstep on that. And I actually think, I actually

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Speaker 2: think that that the everybody points to the transfer portal,

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Speaker 2: but they're miss they're mislabeling what they don't like.

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Speaker 3: It's not the transfer portal.

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Speaker 2: It's the ability to transfer without any repercussion, right to

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Speaker 2: sit out, to not sit out. And I understand that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know legally obviously, if there's basically

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Speaker 2: what it is the non compete, right. And I actually

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Speaker 2: think a lot of this started when people wouldn't enforce

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Speaker 2: the n UH, the NLI, the national letter of intent

428
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Speaker 2: because it would just get too ugly. Right, you sign

429
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Speaker 2: the contract, that's where you go to school, or if

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Speaker 2: you decide you don't want to go to school, there

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Speaker 2: you sit. But no one wanted to take the bad

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Speaker 2: press because they thought, well, that will hurt me from

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Speaker 2: getting a kid in the future, Like what anyway.

434
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 4: Well, don't let's add this part in there. The cavette

435
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 4: that I would add in there. Coaches leaving, coaches getting fined,

436
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 4: coaches making decisions to go elsewhere, and the person or

437
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 4: the coaching staff that recruited somebody somewhere is no longer there, right,

438
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 4: So that and that instance, they should be able to,

439
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 4: you know, be released from the the NL, the NL.

440
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 4: I you know, but go ahead, keep going.

441
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: Sorry sorry, okay, no no, so so.

442
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: Let me do what you get my train thought for

443
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 2: one second, so I think you know, look, all of

444
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: this stuff is it's like sugar.

445
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 4: Okay.

446
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: It immediately makes you feel good if you're the kid

447
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: to get money in your pocket.

448
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm getting all this money.

449
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: What you don't realize is, and I said this on

450
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: my radio show, all of these kids that put on

451
00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: their Instagram posts forever, a Trojan forever, a bulldog forever,

452
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: a corner Husker forever, a Hurricane forever, a Buckeye.

453
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 3: No, you're not.

454
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 4: No, you're not.

455
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: You leave a school, it's like leaving a company. You're out.

456
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 3: When you're out, you're out. And what we have is

457
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example. Spencer Sanders.

458
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: Spencer Sanders was a starting quarterback at Oklahoma State for

459
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: three years. Put himself in the portal, and look, I

460
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 2: think he wanted to come back. I do think that

461
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 2: it was one of those relationships which may have gone bad.

462
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 2: But he's a talented kid. He did leave him to

463
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: a Big twelve championship game. He goes to Ole Miss,

464
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: he doesn't play. Now he's academically ineligible for the bowl

465
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: game that he would have played in because their quarterbacks

466
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: have put their names into the portal.

467
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: In addition to the.

468
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: Fact that he's not going to really play or get

469
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 2: a chance to shine. Not does not he's not a pro.

470
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: Whatever money he made is actually money he loses in

471
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: the back end because if you're a four year start

472
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: at Oklahoma State, you're always a cowboy. And look, Oklahoma

473
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: State people like they're not gonna thumb their nose at

474
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: him when he comes back. No, NOSU guy, he left right,

475
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: you leave your out. And so we not only do

476
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 2: damage to all of those student athletes who are probably

477
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: going to lose opportunities, we do damage to high school

478
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 2: kids because the transfer portal allows you to recruit guys

479
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: that are seasoned, that are ready to play. But even

480
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: the kids that transfer, they're gonna be damaged because when

481
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: you multiple multiple times transfer, like where's your home because

482
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you're you know, obviously your

483
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: path is different. But I would say high percentage of

484
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: football and basketball players, you get done playing, and the

485
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: first person you call when you need a job is

486
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: your coach, right, coach or administrator right, and they the

487
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: administrator may help you out, the coaches may may help

488
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: you out, but for the most part, like you've been

489
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: there for six nine months, like they don't know. Yeah,

490
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 2: you're a mercenary. So I think we do damage. I

491
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: think that. I truly believe this, and I've gotten criticized

492
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: roundly because I've never been a pay the player's guide is.

493
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 2: I just think that because it's become the wild, wild West,

494
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: and because of everyone's need for kids to have actually

495
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: too many rights, you know, too many rights, that we're

496
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: doing damage across the board. And while we like to

497
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 2: act like everything is free market, no it's not.

498
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: Nothing is truly free market.

499
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 2: We don't live in a completely free capitalistic society.

500
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: We don't.

501
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 2: What we have is laws and guardrails in place, voted

502
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: on by Congress, just like we have with the NCAA. Now,

503
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: can we say that it shouldn't be like the Senate

504
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: where everybody gets two votes, right, It should be more

505
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: like House representatives, where the bigger conferences maybe get a

506
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: bigger chunk of the votes. I think I would be

507
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 2: down with that. I think that's a little bit more

508
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: reasonable way of doing it. But there has to be

509
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: some form of created loyalty because it actually helps the

510
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: kids in the end more so than this freedom of

511
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: complete movement and self autonomy, which I think is going

512
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 2: to hurt everybody across the board.

513
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: Right, right, So that there's a lot there, and I

514
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 4: hear you. I mean, I was just taking a few

515
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: notes on what you were saying, and I love this

516
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: discussion because the thing about it, Doug is this is real. Right.

517
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 4: So a few things. One, you're not wrong in any

518
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 4: of the stuff that you're saying, right, But what I

519
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: think that one of the things to add to what

520
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: you're talking about is one we have to look at

521
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 4: the long term damage that's being done to student athletes

522
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 4: in a system that has been set up. How we

523
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: know how we got here, right, We got here because

524
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: you had some politicians in my state and our state

525
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 4: who tend to look at this thing as this is

526
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 4: the Texas, the ou, the Ohio state, the Michigan, you know,

527
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 4: the Florida, Tennessee, Alabama model, right, and we're not that.

528
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 4: So one, there are thousands of kids who get lost

529
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 4: into portal every year. Right, So the system that's been

530
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 4: set up in terms of being able to hit the portal.

531
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny because some of our coaches they

532
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: call it portal combat, right, because it's what it is.

533
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 4: It's portal combat. And so what happens is here like

534
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: the in looking at it from a student athlete perspective

535
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: and keeping student athletes in a realistic place here, Right,

536
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 4: let's start with this, n I l for what it was.

537
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 4: We knew this, We all knew this was going to happen.

538
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: Of course we did. Of course we did. No.

539
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: No, this is about guys getting money to sign autographs, bullshit.

540
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: This is about pay for play.

541
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 4: This is about recruitment, and it ultimately comes down it's

542
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,959
Speaker 4: inducement in the form of recruitment and retention. Right, how

543
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 4: many coaches are Every coach in the country is going

544
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: crazy because they have to re recruit their players. There's

545
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 4: student athletes once they have them. Because the mid major level.

546
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 4: I'll take it one step further, and I'm going to

547
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 4: say this publicly, the mid major level is now the

548
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 4: new juco right. And who because if you're a P five,

549
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 4: P four powerful coach, group of five coach and you know,

550
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 4: and you're recruiting, and you look at the portal and

551
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 4: you can get a kid who is one or two

552
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 4: or so years into college. What do they have. They

553
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: know how to be coached, they know how to practice,

554
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 4: they know how to go to school, they know how

555
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 4: to act on campus. One would assume, right, they have

556
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: college experience. So it's almost like when you're interviewing people

557
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: for a job, more than likely you're going to go

558
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 4: with the person who has a level of experience versus

559
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 4: someone who's fresh out of school, right because why that person.

560
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: The opportunity for you to be successful with that person

561
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 4: is going to happen faster. And in a world where

562
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 4: coaches are I always say this, eighties don't fire head coaches.

563
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: Head coaches fire themselves, right, But if a head coach

564
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 4: is fighting for their job and they want to make

565
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 4: sure they stay in the hunt every year, and depending

566
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 4: on what the metrics of success are, they're going to

567
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 4: recruit the kid who's going to give them the best

568
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: chance to win right away. So gone are the days

569
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 4: of trying to build from the ground up with high

570
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: school kids that you turn into two three four year

571
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: players and those student athletes. You build a program and

572
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: you have longevity. Now everybody's in a one to two

573
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 4: year model. They got to win now because they feel

574
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: the pressure. And if they don't feel the pressure from

575
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 4: their administration, they're feeling the pressure from their boosters or

576
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 4: their donors. They're feeling pressure from the media and depending

577
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 4: on the market you're in, and they're feeling pressure like

578
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 4: I need to I'm coaching for my job right So

579
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 4: right there, that's one area where we've gone, you know,

580
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 4: a sku of where we should be. Now what it

581
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: has that done? That has also put high school kids

582
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: in a position where the high school kids are getting squeezed.

583
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: You have the portal, You have the COVID year. I

584
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: think next year is the last year of the COVID

585
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 4: year twenty five, so we're coming up on the end

586
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: of that. Right. You have the COVID year, you have

587
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: grad transfers, you have you know, and you have the

588
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 4: opportunity to recruit kids out of the portal as undergrads

589
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 4: who get ann You have international kids, right, high school kids.

590
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: Unless you are the elite of the elite on the

591
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 4: high school level, you're going to get squeezed. High school

592
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 4: kids are now forced to say, am I going to

593
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 4: go to prep? Am I going to go to Juco?

594
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 4: What am I going to do? And if I'm good enough,

595
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 4: can I go play overseas for a year or two? Right?

596
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: In basketball? Right? So, now you combine all these factors

597
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 4: with the hype around nil and when you have people

598
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 4: out there talking about we need thirteen million in our

599
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 4: collective so we can keep a quarterback or get a

600
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 4: quarterback and blah blah blah. Now the whole spirit of it,

601
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 4: and I've listened to it, and I've seen it. Right,

602
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 4: we all see it. It is absolutely gone to pay

603
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: for play in the minds of boosters and donors. And

604
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: where I think it's going to go left or right

605
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 4: of center, or it's going to start to wane at

606
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 4: the lower levels. And I say the lower levels because

607
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: donors and boosters in their mind, they're believing they're buying

608
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: a kid that's going to help them win a championship.

609
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 4: And when that championship doesn't come together, and when that

610
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 4: coach isn't winning and they're investing however much money they're

611
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 4: investing into the collective or directly into a kid, they're

612
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 4: not going to see what the return on their investment,

613
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: because that's how the person who's putting the money into

614
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 4: it is looking at it, right, So as ads one

615
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 4: of the things that I say now, and I've had

616
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 4: this conversation with our people, I've said, look, I've got

617
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 4: to think about fundraising from the different lens now, because one,

618
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 4: you have to be able to compete at some level

619
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 4: in the NIL space, right and we know it can't

620
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 4: come straight from the athletics programs, so it's got to

621
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: either come through the collective or through outside donors. So

622
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: we have to be able to figure out how do

623
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 4: we compete there. We have to also make sure our

624
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 4: development off are able to help us as we're raising

625
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: money for the program overall, because we still need money

626
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: to run our programs. And then you've got a factor

627
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 4: in your multimedia rights partner. You know whoever your multimedia

628
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: rights partner is. In our case, it's lear Field, and

629
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 4: we need that money coming in. But now the multimedia

630
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 4: rights partners are talking to sponsors, whether they're brands, local

631
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 4: national brands, local businesses, regional enterprises, whatever, and those entities

632
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: are saying, am I going to put the money into

633
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 4: the athletics program or am I going to just buy

634
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: a kid and have the kid come sign autographs and

635
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 4: I pay the kid and I get the same return

636
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 4: on investment I was looking for. So now you've got,

637
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 4: you know, those three areas that you got to think

638
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 4: about from an AD's perspective. And then to bring it

639
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: all together, we set up a system. We meaning all

640
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 4: of us in the NCAA and the government, the Fed, etc.

641
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 4: Et cetera. The congressional people. We haven't set it up.

642
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 4: A system has been put in place where it now

643
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 4: values the highest paid kid, and then you forget that

644
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: that kid is still eighteen to twenty two, twenty three

645
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: years old, it's still maturing, and they're under pressure of

646
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: having to perform at a really high level because some

647
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 4: of them are getting paid more than professors on campus,

648
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 4: faculty on campus, administrators, and coaches. So what have we done.

649
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 4: We've set up a system that is absolutely going to

650
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 4: fail at some point because it's not sustainable because it

651
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 4: will fail at one of two levels. You're not able

652
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: to keep up with it, or the corruption will tear

653
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: it down.

654
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 2: So Jason proposed, and it's been rumored the idea of hey,

655
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: what if private equity comes in and buys up an athletic.

656
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now now you've completely If private equity becomes

657
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 4: a player in this, God help us all you know.

658
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it's you know again, education versus a business

659
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 4: model and athletics. We have to at some point, we

660
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 4: the collective in college athletics, we have to stop and say, look,

661
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 4: are we ultimately doing a reparable harm to these student apps,

662
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 4: these young men and women at the at the highest level,

663
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 4: if you will, because yes, no, let me back up

664
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 4: real quick. We see at our level we absolutely have

665
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 4: nil deals that are true nil deals. You know, a

666
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: little bit of money here and there, not anything substantial

667
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 4: for appearances, autographed signings, put social media posts, endorsing a product, whatever,

668
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 4: may be the true spirit of what it is, right,

669
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 4: but we have to look at this whole thing that

670
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 4: where nil has it, like we talked about doug, where

671
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 4: it has become pay for play in essence, and we

672
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 4: have to really look at is it doing a reparable

673
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 4: harm long term to these young men and women who

674
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 4: are I hate to say it because I never like

675
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 4: to look at it this way. We cannot make them

676
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 4: commodities for big universities. You know, I know, as you know,

677
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: you know, my son plays at Pepperdine.

678
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 3: But but but people want them to be.

679
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 4: They want them to.

680
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 3: I understand it. They want them to be.

681
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 4: They want them to, which is where we have to base,

682
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 4: we say, at some level. And again I don't have

683
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 4: the answer. But I look at it like this. My

684
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 4: son plays at Pepperdine, as you know, right, I'm his dad.

685
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 4: I'm also an ad I see some of the nasty

686
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: text messages that come through from fans, you know, from people,

687
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 4: from grown men who are doing things and you know,

688
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: finding ways to put young men and women in situations

689
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 4: where they're coming down on them like they're pros. Right,

690
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 4: these are kids, These are young men and women that

691
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 4: are still developing. If we don't figure it out quickly,

692
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: we're going to allow irreparable harm to be done to

693
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 4: these individuals, whether it's people getting kids, getting a whole

694
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 4: bunch of money and not understanding that you have to

695
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 4: pay taxes on all this stuff, not understanding the financial

696
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: implications of what they're receiving. It's not a gift, you know,

697
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 4: it's not like here's X number of thousands of dollars

698
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 4: or tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions and

699
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 4: we're paying We're given this to you, Like, that's not

700
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 4: free money, right, And when they are in their mind,

701
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 4: they're like, well, this is for my name, image of likeness.

702
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 4: But ultimately it's like, no, the people who are giving

703
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 4: you that. To your point, if the if the private,

704
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 4: if private equity comes into it, they're going to expect

705
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 4: a level of performance that gives them an r a

706
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 4: return on their investment. Right. This is where, honestly, and

707
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 4: I'll say this till the cows come home, we have

708
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 4: to do a better job protecting our student athletes. We

709
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 4: have to. We have to. We need a better system,

710
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: and we need a better way, and and it's so

711
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: complicated and so many and there's so many hands in

712
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 4: it and so many special interests. You know, this thing,

713
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 4: this train has left the station. You know. Now we

714
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 4: need Superman at the end of the tracks to flat

715
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 4: out stop it and figure out how do we redirect

716
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 4: it or redirect it, you know, because we're going to

717
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 4: destroy what we spent decades trying to build. Those the

718
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 4: vast majority of us who've competed at the mid major level,

719
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera, you know, doing it for the

720
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 4: academic red for the educational opportunities and all the things

721
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 4: we're supposed to We're going to destroy that system, and

722
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 4: that's going to be the unintended consequence of everybody thinking

723
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: that they know what they're doing. Right, Like you talked about,

724
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 4: this is the way. How can anybody be an expert

725
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 4: in something that literally just started? Like you're an expert

726
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 4: in something it hasn't been around three years and you've

727
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 4: had experts in it. How how are you an expert

728
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,479
Speaker 4: in something? You're an expert from your vantage point, right,

729
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 4: and you may have you're an expert from having a

730
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 4: perspective on it. I think Belzer's perspective Again. I keep

731
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 4: going back to Jason because I think he has a

732
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 4: He has a fantastic perspective that's realistic about where this

733
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 4: thing is heading. Right. Everything that you guys talked about

734
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 4: in terms of collective bargaining agreements, in terms of unions,

735
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 4: in terms of employee status, in terms of you know,

736
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 4: firing a student athlete if they're not performing, if they're

737
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 4: an employee, all of these things are the things that

738
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 4: people aren't really understanding because they're only looking at it

739
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 4: the limited lens and the limited scope of what they

740
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 4: have versus being a former student athlete, being an administrator,

741
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 4: being someone who's responsible for running a program, and being

742
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 4: someone who ultimate at the end of the day, is

743
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 4: responsible for the mission. And I will say this the

744
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 4: mission of college. Every school is going to have a mission.

745
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 4: In my opinion, my not so humble opinion on this,

746
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 4: the mission really comes out to one sentence, build and

747
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 4: prepare student athletes for opportunities in life through sport.

748
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 3: I completely agree.

749
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: Okay, but again, here's the thing we're strewing up the

750
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: most any of these. Let's just take football, since that's

751
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: really what the topic is, right. Football makes the most money,

752
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 2: it does, so football can the most money. So we're

753
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: given on a lot of these kids upwards of six

754
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: figures to play football. So they get done playing football

755
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 2: and they go into the workplace and.

756
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: They're not going to find a job the sim amount.

757
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: No, no, no.

758
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: But but again, it's a lot like here's here's how

759
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: I would relate it to I think most here's how

760
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: it related to the common man. It's the remember the

761
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: first time you watched the big screen TV, right, well,

762
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: the first time you watched ht TV, and then you

763
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: went back to standard def and you're.

764
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: Like, this is terrible. What is this?

765
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: I can't even watch the game anymore. This TV is

766
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 2: tiny and standard deaf. I can't even see it. What

767
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: is going on here? All right, that's what they're all

768
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: going to experience. Worre you're you're you're right, Like the

769
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: whole job is to me, the ni l is you

770
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: get done playing, and now you get a killer job

771
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: because you played, and then you're you know, you're like

772
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: me where you're like a scholarship for life. You know,

773
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: anywhere you go, somebody wants to buy you beer. If

774
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: you need a job, they'll help you out. People like you.

775
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 3: You get to go to games occasionally for free.

776
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: You get a cool letterman jacket, you get to cut

777
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 2: lines sometimes, like all that stuff. But this idea of

778
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: putting money in a kiss pocket again, it sounds great again.

779
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: The reality is you point out they're young. Agent's gonna

780
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: get some parents are going to get some people will

781
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 2: get a little will probably burn through it really quickly.

782
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 2: Let's see what happens if the tax when the taxman

783
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: wants his as well, And then we're creating this complete

784
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 2: facade of what they should expect in the workplace, you know,

785
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: Like I'll give you an example, a company that I

786
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: know that hires a lot of ex athletes where they

787
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: can make a lot of money eventually a striker, right,

788
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: striker is uh, you know they've all let's just say pharmaceuticals,

789
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: but it's also it's medical devices, medical right, right, So

790
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: I know people who have been in college athletics, have

791
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: a master's degree and a buddy of mine works for strikers. Like,

792
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: hey man, you want to know anybody wants a job,

793
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 2: like we got a good we got a good area

794
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: open seventy five with some bonuses, like you can you

795
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: can crack six figures if you bust your ass in

796
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 2: your first year. Like imagine you're a college kid because

797
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: you're not getting the seventy five, you don't have a

798
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: master's degree, you're not that where all, and somebody comes

799
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: to you and offers you fifty sixty thousand dollars when

800
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 2: you're used to making one hundred thousand dollars, which is

801
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: kind of conservative for some of these kids, but you know,

802
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 2: one hundred thousan dollars for alignment is not that crazy.

803
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: So you just you have no we're killing their perspective.

804
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 4: If we look at how many like how many, how

805
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 4: many young people this is impacting that would be facing

806
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: that situation right, because we know, look, professional sport is

807
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 4: going to end one of three ways for all of us. Right,

808
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 4: you're going to age out, you're gonna get injured, or

809
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 4: you're going to get cut. Right, you're not going to

810
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 4: play flight when we're eighteen to twenty two. Usually you

811
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 4: the reality of that doesn't really set in until it

812
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 4: sets in, and then you know how many colleagues of ours,

813
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 4: friends of ours had a really hard time just adjusting

814
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 4: to life when you're not going to practice, when you're

815
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 4: not in the locker room, when you're not around your teammates,

816
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 4: when you're not on trips where you're not in the stadium,

817
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 4: where you're not in front of thousands, tens of thousands

818
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 4: of people, when you're not you know, when you're not

819
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 4: in it right and you're not.

820
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: You know, you know, I'll give I'll give you an

821
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: example of the athletes that the people that figure this

822
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: out the hard way is. I had one of my

823
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 2: closest friends sky played with. He's probably the best college

824
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 2: player I play with him, Adrian Peterson PiZZ from northvill

825
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: over Rock Arkansas, third all time leading scored Oklahoma State.

826
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: He tore his ACL at Chicago pre draft, so that

827
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: next year when he rehabbed, he was like he was

828
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: never the same, And it was just because the idea

829
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: of trying to rehab when you're not part of a team,

830
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: when you don't have a coach telling you know, you

831
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: don't have a team to look forward to playing for it,

832
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: you don't have a trainer who designed your ass to

833
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 2: get in there and rehab every day. That's what it's like. Yeah,

834
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: people struggle to adjust to being a civilian, if you will.

835
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: It's really like coming out of the military, what are

836
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: you struggling to adjust.

837
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 3: To real life?

838
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 4: Exactly? You know, it's obviously I'm misspoken. It's not exactly that,

839
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 4: but it's the parallel is there, you know, in terms

840
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 4: of how you're gonna like, you know, adjust your life

841
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 4: coming out of coming out of it. You know, you

842
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 4: look at the expectations like you talked about for the

843
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 4: handful of people relatively speaking, like eighteen to twenty two

844
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 4: year olds that are gonna make this kind of money.

845
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 4: I'm not and again I am not opposed for the

846
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 4: opportunity for any student athlete to get what they can get. Right.

847
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 4: I'm not opposed to that at all, but I do

848
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 4: think that it does. It can. The unintended consequence is

849
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 4: it can create an overinflated sense of self, like you

850
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 4: see with so many of kids who go into the portal.

851
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 4: There's a reason thousands of the kids go into the

852
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 4: portal and end up nowhere, right because they have an

853
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 4: overinflated sense of self and they they think, Okay, I'm

854
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 4: just gonna I don't like it here. It's not working

855
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 4: for me for whatever reason. You know, I'm just going

856
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 4: to enter in or I'm going to enter and see

857
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 4: how much money I can get someone where, Right. But

858
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 4: a lot of them like it doesn't work out for

859
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 4: the vast majority of people. That's the thing people aren't

860
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 4: talking about. Right. So if you are one of the

861
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 4: handful that's getting a sizeable amount in nil and you

862
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, college athletics ends and you're going

863
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 4: to get a regular job, if you will, you know,

864
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 4: and start your professional career in the workforce, you're right.

865
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 4: It is going to be like going from you know,

866
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 4: old school TD, you know, to watching something in four K,

867
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: but in the reverse and now you're like, what am I?

868
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 4: What is this? And then having an appreciation for climbing

869
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 4: the ladder and earning it. If you're not able to

870
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 4: take the experience you had in terms of what it

871
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 4: took to get you to where you were athletically and

872
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 4: the work you had to to do that, you have

873
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: to take that same that same skill set and apply

874
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 4: it into the professional world and wherever you are and

875
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 4: do that to climb the ladder like all of us have, right. So,

876
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 4: but I think, yeah, it's like that overinflated sense it

877
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 4: self can be an uninto and the consequence of having

878
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 4: too much too soon, and then all of a sudden

879
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 4: it goes away and you're like, Okay, what do I

880
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: do now? Or I'm in a position where I'm making

881
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 4: you know, pennies on the dollar relative to what I

882
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 4: was a student athlete, you know, in my at my

883
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 4: former institution. What am I supposed to do now? Right?

884
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 4: Because now you have to jug lifestyle and everything else,

885
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 4: and and if you're not walking into a real a

886
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 4: real world concept, a real world structure that everybody else

887
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 4: has kind of have to work the way into and

888
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 4: work the way through and then make the climb up.

889
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: Okay, last thing I tell Charlie Baker, he's got to

890
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: hire you. You're his policyman. Okay, he said, there's no

891
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 2: other proposal. What would you propose.

892
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 4: I'm actually in the process of working on that. In

893
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 4: terms of what I would propose, I think there are

894
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 4: elements in there that provide a good framework, but I

895
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 4: think there are some that are misinformed. From the standpoint

896
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 4: that the unintended consequences like the whole investing at least

897
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 4: thirty thousand per year, you know, and for at least

898
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 4: half of this school's eligible student athletes, the unintended consequences

899
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 4: of things like that will destroy the vast majority of programs.

900
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 4: They won't be able to survive. Right. In my opinion

901
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 4: on this, I think that it's going to take and

902
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 4: it's going to be a proposal. It would have to

903
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 4: be a proposal. You're never going to please everybody, right,

904
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 4: You're never going to make everybody happy. But there's going

905
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 4: to be levels of changing the system that will involve

906
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 4: big time college football that won't make everybody happy. But

907
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 4: if we want to continue the academic model and amateurism,

908
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 4: it's the only way you're going to be able to

909
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 4: go you're not going to be able to do this

910
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 4: and try to keep big time college football intact as

911
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 4: is right now. And it's not it's not a negative.

912
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 4: It's just a matter of saying, look, either we're going

913
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 4: to we're going to do everything we need to do

914
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 4: to protect that we meaning the people involved, or we're

915
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 4: really going to look out for the vast majority in

916
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 4: the rank and file to keep this thing going so

917
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 4: everybody continues to have opportunities to compete and go to

918
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 4: school and put you know, for those who aund scholarship,

919
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 4: earn scholarship or at least have the opportunity to continue

920
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 4: their athletic career while earning their degree. But you're not

921
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 4: going to be able to have both. It's just not possible.

922
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 4: It's not plausible at this point. If I was working

923
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 4: with Charlie, I would absolutely work with him, you know,

924
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 4: each step of the way, because I do believe it

925
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 4: can be no and it's and I know I'm the

926
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 4: eternal optimist. I get that. I mean, Doug, I say,

927
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 4: I helped save a program from being eliminated. There's not

928
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 4: too much that I feel like I can't do, you know,

929
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 4: with the right team in place and the right approach

930
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 4: and moving and moving the special interest or the agendas.

931
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 4: And if we're all locked in on what is going

932
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 4: to be best for the kids we serve in athletics administration,

933
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 4: then we get there. If we're not going to be

934
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 4: honest about that, we're not going to get there.

935
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 3: Awesome stuff. Wes. Listen, man, you've been more than generous

936
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 3: with your time. Do me this favor.

937
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 2: When you get that proposal done, will you do me

938
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: a favor and let's do another Let's do another problem.

939
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, because and this is one of those things

940
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 4: where I won't be doing this by myself. You know,

941
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 4: there's there's there are a number of ads and a

942
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 4: number of administrators and a number of chancellors and presidents

943
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 4: who are very interested in and what what else can

944
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 4: we do? And it may not be the be all

945
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 4: end all, but it's going to be something that's going

946
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 4: to point us, you know, in a in an informed

947
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 4: direction to help save the whole thing from collapsing. So

948
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 4: but you will be my first call. I promise you done,

949
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 4: I promise.

950
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: I appreciate it. Thanks so much for joining me.

951
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: Thanks the.

952
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 3: All right, that's it for this edition of All Ball.

953
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 2: Remember the Gottlieb Show airs daily three to five Eastern

954
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 2: twelve two Pacific. You can download it in podcasts for

955
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 2: and plus we have a podcast only hour. Just typeen

956
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 2: Doug Gotlieb. You can get all my stuff in the meantime.

957
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: I thanks to Wes Malette. And if you have any questions,

958
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: you have any comments, remember download, subscribe, rate, review, and

959
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: tweet us. Tweet this out if you think it's interesting

960
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 2: at Gottlieb Show is the Twitter handle, and Gottlieb Show,

961
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 2: of course, is the handle of the Instagram page.

962
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 3: I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball