1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to text Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. It is time for 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: a classic episode. This episode is called how ad Blockers Work, 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: and it originally published on Marche. And I've got some 7 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: things to say about ad blockers. I'll save it for 8 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: the end, and it's likely going to be repeated in 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: the actual episode, which you know, full disclosure, I have 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: not gone back and listened to, so it may very 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: well be that everything I say is repetitive. But that way, 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: I'll just throw it at the end, and if you 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: hear stuff I've already said, you know you just stop it. Anyway, 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: let's go back and listen to this classic episode. Before 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: we get started on this, We'll go ahead and say 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: that you know, there there are the advertisers who make 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: ads are not necessarily trying to make them to annoy you. 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: That would actually be counter productive to what the ad 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: is supposed to do. Well. I would argue that some 20 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: ad theory um states that if you annoy an audience 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: enough to get their attention, then that's a good thing. 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: But that's but but we're getting into sticky territory there, 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll cover all of that as we go along. 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: But if you wanted to hear a really simple story 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: about how ad block came to be bad news everyone. 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: As it turns out, ad block has got an incredibly 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: complex story because it is one of those things where 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a hydra. You know, eventually one 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: head would get cut off and two other heads would 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: spring up, and those two heads would each be doing 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: kind of what the first head did, but they're doing 32 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: it in a different way, and they're not really communicating 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: with each other, and when they do communicate with each other, 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: they're fighting a little bit. Yeah, it's a it's one 35 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: of those that it's it's not so simple as to say, like, uh, 36 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: you know this one piece of software. Now it's version two, 37 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: now it's version three. You actually have lots of forking 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: going on. It's more like Windows. How Windows would occasionally 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: fork into different groups and you're like, well, I used 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: to be able to explain the history of Windows, but 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: now not so much. But you can actually trace it 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: back to a single point, a historical moment when the 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: very first version of ad block came out, and it 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: originally came out for the Firefox web browser. This was 45 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: a browser extension. UM Firefox being open source, it allows 46 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: people to developers well, I mean developers are people. I 47 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: didn't mean to. UM. It allows you to create extensions 48 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: or add ons for the browser in order to change 49 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: or improve or to increase its functionality. Right, Yeah, because 50 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: there's some things that a browser can do, and then 51 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: occasionally the web develops in such a way where there's 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: some really awesome stuff you could you if the browser 53 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: just supported it, and the extensions kind of allow you 54 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: to create that ability, right, and so according to one 55 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: Vladimir Poland, a Danish programmer by the name of Henry 56 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: Ostav Sarson, I think I got that right. Yeah, well 57 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: it's definitely better than I could have. UM who developed 58 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: this extension. I I don't remember now if we said 59 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: already in two thousand two. No, we did not. Yeah. 60 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: By the way, the reason why we said we don't 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: know already is because you guys do not get treated 62 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: to the fact that our buildings started to vibrate because 63 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: of something going on somewhere inside this building, and we 64 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: figured you'd rather be you know saved that experience. But yeah, 65 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: three minute break in which we went what is that? Yeah, 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: But in two thousand two, in fact, he did begin 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: development on this. This was formally the ad Block Extension, 68 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: and at that point it was spelled A D little 69 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: B L O C K. No. The reason I say 70 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: little B is because the other versions will talk about 71 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: differentiate themselves with capitalization as well as adding other words. 72 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: But this is the first one. Now, this one could 73 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: block images, which at the time was pretty much the 74 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: main form of web advertising. It wasn't the only one 75 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 1: that was the main one. So things like banner ads 76 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: that were at the top, or the ones that are 77 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: along the side of the column, or even just inserted 78 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: directly as like a picture inside an article. That's the 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that would block. Sure. And so if 80 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: you found an image that you didn't like a probably 81 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: because it was an add, you could add that that 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: that images u r L to a list of blocked images, right, 83 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: and it would actually go all the way back to 84 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: where the source of that image came from and then 85 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: start blocking other images from that source. Because, of course, 86 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: if there's one advertiser that happens to run a lot 87 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: of different campaigns, and back in those early days of 88 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: the web, there were a few that had lots and 89 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 1: lots of clients. You could essentially blanket block a whole 90 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: list stuff advert right. It was pretty effective at the time. Yeah, yeah, 91 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: for for images. Anyway, they did have some downs sides. 92 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: One of the downsides was that it did not actually 93 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: prevent the web page from loading the image. In fact, 94 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: that the earliest version, which they called point three. Uh 95 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: I assume that versions point one and point two or 96 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: earlier dat yeah, yeah, and never were released. But this 97 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: point three one, it did not prevent the images from 98 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: loading at all. It would, in fact, first load the 99 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: entire web page images and all, and then block those ads. 100 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: Right now, this was an important deal, Like people really 101 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: wanted to have it blocked, not just you know, from view, 102 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: but blocked period so it wouldn't download. Not just because 103 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: people thoughts or at least some people thought that advertising 104 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: was really intrusive and and it decreased their enjoyment of 105 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: the surfing experience visually annoying, but also was using up 106 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: precious memory and usage bandwidth. Yeah, so you would take 107 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: you extra time to download a web page because I 108 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: had to download all of those assets, including the ads, 109 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: and if you could turn those ads off, then the 110 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: web pages would load faster. You know, this is the 111 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: era of dial up. You know, I remember that era well, uh, 112 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: not happily, but I do remember it well. I couldn't 113 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: have find memories of it, not at all. Uh. You 114 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: know when when someone would would say, hey, you need 115 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: to go and look there's this funny picture, and you 116 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: click on it and then six minutes later you go 117 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: and make yourself a cup of coffee. Right, You're like, well, 118 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna go wander offer a bit. 119 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: But anyway, so this ad block version was limited in 120 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 1: its use, but it had potential. And so the next 121 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: version of ad block came along from someone else. Because 122 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: Sorenson was interested in creating this tool, but not necessarily 123 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: interested in continually updating it and uh and and and 124 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: giving it more features. It was kind of a one 125 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: off for Sarrenson. So we then have a mysterious figure. 126 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: So someone by the handle of Rue, whose name I'm 127 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: still not sure of. Yeah, Ru are you e? As 128 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: in uh, you know that that spelling not r O O. 129 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 1: But the Ru created ad block zero point four and 130 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: went in a completely different way used XML binding language 131 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: also known as x b L. Now that's a web 132 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: markup language, so HTML is hypertext markup language. This is 133 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: similar except instead of it telling specifically like a browser, 134 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: how to display things, it's more about defining specific behaviors 135 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: of elements that would be displayed in a web page. 136 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: So it's all about letting a program know what any 137 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: particular element is supposed to be able to do, so 138 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 1: that the computer does that thing when you make the command. 139 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: So an easy example is a scroll bar. If you 140 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: were to put a scroll bar within the context of 141 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: a web page itself, you know this isn't this isn't 142 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: the browsers scroll bar, but something that's inside the web page. 143 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Then you might use XBL to define those behaviors, so 144 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: you say, when the user drags the scroll bar, this 145 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: is the thing that's supposed to happen. Now, in this case, 146 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: they were using XBL to sort of, uh, just prevent 147 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: again these these display these ads from displaying. But it 148 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: could prevent more than just images because it was working 149 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: within the code of the browser. It could also prevent 150 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: flash and Java objects right, and this was another big 151 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: advance as far as ad blocking was concerned because anyone 152 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: who has been using the web for a while knows 153 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: ads that are just pictures that appear on the top 154 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: or the side, or within the context of an article 155 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: or something. That's just a small slice of the types 156 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: of web advertising we've seen out there. There are a 157 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: lot of things that have float over ads, float under ads, 158 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: AutoPlay ads, which boy, are those my favorite. I definitely 159 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: feel some sympathy here for folks who really get tired 160 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: of ads that have, you know, a negative impact on 161 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: your user expect if they're intrusive. Absolutely. I mean, if 162 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: I go to a website where there's some sort of 163 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: audio component that I want to listen to, and because 164 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: I moved my cursor and it goes over a AD 165 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: panel and then some advertising audio starts playing at the 166 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: same time, that's clearly not an enjoyable experience. You can't 167 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: really get around that. But anyway, Yeah, this meant that 168 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: it was more useful than the point three version of 169 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: ad block, But it should be said that because it 170 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: was using a different approach, while it was called ad 171 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: Block zero point four, it wasn't necessarily a direct descendant 172 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: of ad block ad Block zero point three. And this 173 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: is where we already have some confusion, right, right, further 174 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: confusion would happen because Um Latimer point who who we 175 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, was basically unaware of of this update going 176 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: out and created his own point for right. So you 177 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: have Ladimir saying, okay, I know that this this thing 178 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: that Sarnsen did was useful, but it was very limited. 179 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: I want to make my own approach and try and 180 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: create a more versatile, useful platform to block this sort 181 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: of intrusive advertising. Uh and started working on and then 182 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: was prepared to release it, and then discovered through some 183 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: I have no idea what the tone was from the 184 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: basis of the history that that that Pollent wrote, I 185 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: would like to imagine that Rue was a little miffed. 186 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: Great was the message thereof and that um and that 187 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: Vladimir found out that he couldn't release it as a 188 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: point for because there was already a point for. So 189 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: now comes the discussion of whether or not Vladimir's work 190 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: should be incorporated into a point five version. So keep 191 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,479 Speaker 1: in mind that while this is all going on, Firefox 192 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: itself is continuing to slowly release updates, which necessitates that 193 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: browser extensions be updated as well. Because exactly. Yeah, So 194 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: this was not, you know, just an academic discussion of 195 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: should this go forward or not. It needed to keep 196 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: developing for it to be useful. So his approach was 197 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: to look at content policies to both predict and block ads, 198 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: which ended up being an advance over the previous versions 199 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: because it was finally allowing the user to have these 200 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: ads blocked before the page even loaded. So now we 201 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: get into that that era where things can be sped 202 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: up because you don't need to load all the assets. 203 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: He also had this discussion with Rue about what needs 204 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: to be done. They decided to kind of collaborate, but 205 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: according to Plans history, he got very frustrated that Ru 206 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: would kind of piecemeal pick the bits that Vladimir had 207 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: created and then ignore everything else. And Laddim felt that 208 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the things he had contributed were being 209 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: ignored and that uh, and that some of the things 210 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: he had made we're being used in ways he had 211 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: not intended. There was one in particular way said users 212 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: were complaining about this particular interface, and the problem was 213 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: I had never intended users to be activating this interface. 214 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't meant for us. But now it's part of 215 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: what because I'm not the one who I don't own 216 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: ad block and not implementing these changes myself, and so 217 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: that became kind of a source subject. So you move 218 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: forward to two thousand and five, and no one had 219 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: really worked on ad block. Yeah that there was still 220 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: some of that xbl stuff involved, and and some of 221 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: Ladimir's approaches were in there. He was kind of a mishmash. 222 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: It was like a Frankenstein's Monster version of the of 223 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: what what each person like rou and Ladimir had both 224 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: had in mind. But out of this grew um what 225 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: was going to be called ad Block Plus. Yeah. This 226 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: is when a fellow named Michael McDonald who used the 227 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: handle mc m came along and he created a new 228 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: version going back to point three as sort of the 229 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: point of inspiration with enhanced features. He did call it 230 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: ad Block Plus. And at this point one of the 231 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: things that was added was this ability for users to 232 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: white list certain file sources so that they would still 233 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: get those shown to them, right, white white listing being 234 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: the opposite of blacklistings, certifying that a certain thing or 235 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: person or entity is acceptable exactly. So instead of just 236 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: having a giant X over any advertising, this would allow 237 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: you to be more selective, so you could say, no, 238 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: I want to see these particular types of ads, these 239 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: ads are okay. So Vladimir and Rue continued there discussion 240 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: about what should be ad block, and Ladimir even went 241 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: so far as to offer to rewrite, uh the zero 242 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: point five version of ad block and then adding the 243 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: new features as well as try and tweak some of 244 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: the stuff that he felt was clunky or not user friendly. 245 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: But there was more disagreement between Rue and Ladimir, and 246 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: then eventually Ladimir contacted McDonald mc m about ad Block Plus. Yeah, 247 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: and m c m said, you know you can, you 248 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: can come on over, you can come on over here, 249 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: because I don't really want to to forever be developing 250 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: this this extension, just like you know Sartinson did years ago. 251 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: He you know Sartenson said, no, I made this thing, 252 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: but I don't want to have to keep making it. 253 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: And especially at the time Firefox was going through this 254 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of like update every other day sort of process, 255 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: it was really rapid. Yes, So McDonald said, you know, 256 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: I really don't have the time and effort that to 257 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: to be the steward of this extension. So so Latimer, 258 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: if you want to take it, take it, and Latimer 259 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: say a yeah, okay, fine. So in January two thousand 260 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: and six, they launched ad Block Plus zero point six. 261 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: So again, the versions are starting to get a little 262 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: confusing because this ad block Plus was not directly connected 263 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: to ad Block. It existed as his own thing at 264 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: the same time. So we have two different versions going on, 265 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: two different approaches um and two different communities of users. 266 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: So then Pilot decides he'll he'll keep on working on 267 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: ad block Plus and he wanted to try. You know, 268 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: it's not that he hated the old ad block. He 269 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: actually tried several times to address issues because as the 270 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: the extension got older and less relevant, it also became 271 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: clear that there were some security vulnerabilities, and so he said, listen, guys, 272 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: I found these vulnerabilities. You really should patch them. You 273 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: need to. You need to update ad block so that 274 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: doesn't remain a vulnerability for users. And then it got 275 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: to a point where it's like, really, I mean, I 276 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: can I can help do this if you need to. 277 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: But it was kind of one of those things where 278 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: ad Block just sort sort of began to die out 279 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: at that point. In ad Block Plus was the it's 280 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: wrong to say the winner because it wasn't like it 281 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: was a real battle, but it's the survivor of the two. 282 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I was about to say it sounds like 283 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: like internet Darwinism. Yeah yeah, it kind of is. So 284 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: h then you get into I got really snarky with 285 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: this note, y'all, But I'm going to go ahead and 286 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: include it because schadenfreude. No. In two thousand seven, PC World, 287 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: the magazine named ad Block Plus one of the one 288 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: best products of two thousand seven. The reason why I 289 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: felt the need to include this is because today PC 290 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: World is online only. It ended its print format in 291 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, and now it depends very heavily on 292 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: the online format, you know, the one that is sported. Yeah, so, um, 293 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: I did. I didn't want to mention though, that that 294 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: it's certainly not the only award that ad Block Plus 295 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: is one. Um. For example, it also nabbed best Firefox 296 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: Extension from Lennox Magazine, in which, by the way, you 297 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: can still get in print, So bully for them, how 298 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: about that. So then we move up to December eight, 299 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: two thou nine, and boy, we just we just got 300 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: to the point where we narrowed it down ad block 301 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: Plus was the only player in the game. It was 302 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: going to be so much easier to talk about this 303 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: for the rest of this podcast. And then Google made 304 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: an announcement, which led to a whole bunch of more 305 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: mass happening. Well, we have more to say about ad blockers, 306 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: but first, um, hey, what do you know? We have 307 00:17:54,000 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: some ads. We'll be right back. Okay, so December eight, 308 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, and this is the first time where 309 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: we can actually put a specific date on one of 310 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: these things. You know, again, developers don't necessarily write down 311 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: stuff for historical records, which, guys, you've got to start 312 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: doing that. Yeah, seriously, everyone get on that. I know. Well, actually, 313 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: I mean everyone is on that at this point because 314 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: of the popularity of blogging and micro blogging. But at 315 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: any rate, right, this is when Michael Gunlock developed his 316 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: own ad blocker called ad block with a capital B 317 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: this time. Right, that makes it totally different obviously spelled 318 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: the same way as the original ad block, except that 319 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: the B is capitalized. Like you said, Look, it's the Internet. 320 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: Things can be case sensitive. I just think that's funny 321 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: that you already have a product called ad block Plus, 322 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: so clearly what you want to come out with is 323 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: one called ad block. But you know, again, these are 324 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: open source approaches. It's not like these these different developers 325 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: are all getting into it in order to make book 326 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: who's amount of money. It's stopped something that they felt 327 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: was necessary to extend functionality, and it's a passion thing. Absolutely. 328 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: So this is totally separate from the original ad block 329 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: and also ad block Plus. And originally this was an 330 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: extension for Google Chrome. And in fact, the reason why 331 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: I said December eight, two thousand nine, is that's also 332 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: the very first day that Google allowed extensions in Chrome, 333 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: only in the beta version of Chrome. Actually at the time, 334 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: it would roll out extensions for for Chrome as a 335 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: as a whole a couple of months later, but you know, 336 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: they made this amount announcement, and gun Launch checked to 337 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: see whether there was already an ad block for Chrome, 338 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: and specifically ad block plus for Chrome because he really 339 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: liked that block plus it was his favorite Firefox extension. 340 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: And he saw that there wasn't and started coding one 341 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: like on the spot. Yep, and so uh and now 342 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: these days you can actually get it from multiple uh browsers, 343 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: not just Google Chrome. Also there's version for Safari and 344 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: one for Opera. Ad Block Plus, by the way, also 345 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: available on multiple browsers, including Chrome, Safari uh as well 346 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: as Internet Explorer and of course Firefox where it got started. 347 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: So now we're covering pretty much all the basis and 348 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: some of these you know, you're you're limited on choice, 349 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: Like if you're using Opera, Uh hello, Now, I mean, 350 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: I know that the Opera fans out there are big 351 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: passionate fans. They love that browser. I just I think 352 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: there might be three of you. But hey, if you're 353 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: one of those three, write us and tell us why 354 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: Opera is the best, because I would I would love 355 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: to hear it. I've I've used it a couple of 356 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: times and that's all I know about it. So at 357 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: any rate, uh, you had ad block going under version 358 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: numbers like two point oh being the first one that's 359 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 1: being released for actual use, so we're no longer at 360 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: the zero point whatever. For ad block, it's it's on 361 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: a totally different path. Again, it's not really connected to 362 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: those other ones other than the fact that the end 363 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: result is it blocks ads. Right, It's supposed to be 364 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: based on the same concept, so it was written from 365 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: an entirely separate bit of code exactly. So one of 366 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: my favorite stories about the the ad block extension is 367 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: what happened on April Fool's Day two thousand twelve. So 368 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: this day, the developer decided to do something playful by 369 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: tweaking the code a little bit, so instead of just 370 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: blocking ads so that you don't see them, it replaced 371 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: ads with the Internet's favorite thing, little cats. So it 372 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: became cat block Day. And in fact, it got so 373 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: popular that and people loved it so much that they 374 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: went ahead and added cat block as an as an 375 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: optional add on it. Yeah, you could subscribe and get 376 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 1: cat block if you wanted everything to permanently well everything 377 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: all the ads to permanently be switched over to cats, 378 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: not not the entire and not just a cat browser, 379 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: although someone's got to have done that, I'm sure, right, 380 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm positive anyway, Yeah, so uh interesting, yeah yeah. So. 381 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: Features of good launches ad block are that it can 382 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: it can block resources in Google Chrome so that the 383 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: elements won't even load in the browser, right, um, and 384 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: that includes uh, not just pictures but also flash elements. 385 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: It can block ads and videos like if if YouTube 386 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: plays an ad before a video, it can just wipe 387 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: that from creation, right yea, at least as far as 388 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: your concerned. Yea. Um. The current version I believe is 389 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: available in more than thirty languages. Yep, yep, it's got 390 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: international capabilities built right into it. Also a note of 391 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: interest in good Luck launched a successful Crown funded campaign 392 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: to and and follow me closely here, kids create ads 393 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: for ad block so that ad block can block more ads. 394 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're talking about bob blah blaws blaw blog. 395 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: That's that's what it sounded like to me. It was. 396 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: The campaign was to advertise his his service ad Block, 397 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: because not that many people use it. I mean, I 398 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: think that as as of the campaign, he was saying 399 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: that only three and ten Internet users had any kind 400 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: of ad blocking software at all. Um. And so he 401 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: thought that, you know, more people need to know about 402 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: this thing awareness problem, right right, Yeah, and and that 403 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, if people knew so, right, So he launched 404 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: this campaign and yeah, they made enough money to like 405 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: put up a billboard in Times Square. Yeah. So they 406 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: took an analog and ad blocking company paid for an 407 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: advertisement and what is one of the world's most well 408 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: known advertising Mecca's meat Space, where no one can block it. Yeah, okay, 409 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: I'm my brain is hurting right beautiful, Well, anyway, if 410 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: you're one dring, Hey, what happened ad block? Plus? He 411 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: kept on keeping on. Yeah. In two tho it would 412 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: receive an anonymous donation that was generous enough to allow 413 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: Ladimir to quit his day job and work full time 414 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: on the project for two entire years. Yeah. He during 415 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: that time expanded it for use with all of the 416 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: browsers that we were talking about a moment ago. Oh 417 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: and also Firefox Mobile and Android. I didn't even mention 418 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: the mobile operating system, right, um and then inn would 419 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: incorporate what became a very controversial feature, UMU developer led 420 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: white listing. Yeah. So you know, the earlier white listing 421 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: we were talking about was about users defining Okay, I 422 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: want to see this particular content, right, every personal user 423 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: using this ad blocking software. This is on the developer side, 424 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: This is before it ever gets to the user. And 425 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: the idea was that the philosophy was kind of interesting 426 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: to me. The the premise is that people want ad 427 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: block because they don't want annoying, intrusive ads. However, a 428 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: lot of people still want to be able to support 429 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: the sites that they go to, and they realize that 430 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: those sites depend on AD revenue exactly, so in order 431 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: to make sure they are not denying these these different 432 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: sites that add revenue, that they are allowing their participating 433 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: in this kind of marketplace where we can have people 434 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: paid for the work that they're doing and other people 435 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: can enjoy that work. Ad blog plus took it kind 436 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: of upon itself to define what a good ad is 437 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: versus not a good ad. Yeah, the whole thing grew 438 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: out of a partnership between Ladimir and uh person by 439 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: the name of till fed A who's who's an online 440 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: marketer who agreed that lots of online ads are really terrible. 441 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: Um but but right, But he didn't want to see 442 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: the revenue from online ads dry up entirely. Yeah, So 443 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: it's kind of an idea that ads that follow a 444 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: certain set of rules are okay, right if if they're 445 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: not um, if they're not preventing you from accessing the 446 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: content that you went to that page to read, or 447 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: or auto playing sound which is terrible all the time, 448 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: or video or or otherwise just coming up the works 449 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: in such an annoying way that that you want to 450 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: block that thing. Yeah. In fact, ideally according to this 451 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: that has very strict size restrictions that you know, ads 452 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: have to be a certain size and write all that down. 453 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: But there ideally our text only, which advertisers do not 454 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: care for. Uh. You know it's you know, it's not 455 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: as eye catching as something like picture of so. But 456 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: according to the white listing approach, it's supposed to be 457 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: text only. None of that AutoPlay stuff, whether it's sound 458 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: or video. It's supposed to be um, like you said, 459 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be unobtrusive. So it's not supposed to 460 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: cover up things you can't have like a scrolling swoop 461 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: in or scroll in or or shadow box or yeah 462 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: or reform all the words to spell out this product 463 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: is awesome. You know, it's not supposed to do any 464 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. Uh. And that if you 465 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: played by those rules and if you filled out some 466 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: forms and stuff, you could work with ad blocks because 467 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: to get onto this white listed program. So like a 468 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: company that would provide advertising, because you know, the companies 469 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: that you see advertising online, they're usually not the ones 470 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: that are handling the actual ads. It's usually an ad agency. 471 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: There are some companies that have their own ad departments, 472 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: but a lot of them will go to a third party. 473 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: So if these third parties partner with ad block plus 474 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: and create ads in this way, those ads would in 475 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: theory not be automatically blocked by the ad blocker. However, 476 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: if if as a user you wanted to still say 477 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to see any ads. I don't care 478 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: about the revenue thing, I don't care. All I want 479 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: is all the free existence, you could actually turn that 480 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: option off so that you it was automatically on by default, 481 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: but you could turn it off in the settings and 482 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: uh and block all ads whether they are on a 483 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: quote unquote good ad list or not. Also, it was 484 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: kind of a um honor system approach. It still is 485 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: kind of an honor system approach because ad block plus 486 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: doesn't have an automated way to make sure that the 487 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: ads that are submitted in fact follow those criteria. Right. 488 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: Once a company gets gets white listed, all of their 489 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: ads are white listed, and it's up to the developers 490 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: and also to the users of the program to pick 491 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: out ads that they still find offensive and submit a 492 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: report about them. Right. So, if as a user, you 493 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: see something on a web page and you think, wait, 494 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: that doesn't fit the criteria, and I've totally got ad 495 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: blocker plus on and it should be blocking all this stuff. 496 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: You can report the ad and then add block plus 497 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: could take action and say, hey, guys, this isn't following 498 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: the rules that we said. Of course, there was still 499 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: pushback from from users about this, who said that, um, 500 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, first of all, they didn't agree with a 501 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: group of developers making this choice for them of what 502 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: was and wasn't acceptable um. And second of all, that 503 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: there was a potential that ad block plus was getting 504 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 1: paid to serve ads to them. Yeah, there was a 505 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: blogger named um Sasha Palenberg who first said that ad 506 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: block plus was an advertising mafia, that this put them 507 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: in charge, like they were the ones who could say 508 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: what ads are showing on the web in which ones 509 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: aren't effectively at least to the audience that uses ad 510 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: block Plus. And then someone who has not been named 511 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, an anonymous person alleged 512 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: that the developers of ad block plus had demanded a 513 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: share of ad revenue in order to white list ads 514 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 1: from his or her site. We don't know who this 515 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: person is, We don't know their gender or anything, but 516 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: According to this, one person who presumably works for an 517 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: advertising company ad block plus was saying, okay, well, if 518 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: you share a third of your money that you make 519 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: from these ads, then you can totally be on the list. Um. 520 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: Not a lot. Not that everyone who applies to get 521 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: on the list makes it right. Most people don't, and 522 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: ad block has has. Ad Block plus rather has said 523 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: a lot about this issue online and in blogs and interviews. UM. 524 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: They they published a uh clarifying piece in October stating 525 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: that it rejects over half of its applicants based on 526 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: unacceptable ad practices right out the door um, and that 527 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: overall it only has accepted about nine point five percent 528 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: of its applicants to the program. Meanwhile, over at ad 529 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: block you have the founder saying, hey, uh, I'm sure 530 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: if I had an option, they're saying, show me ads 531 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: that don't suck. Those are his words that my users 532 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: would opt in. But it doesn't actually have that functionality. 533 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: This would become so controversial that ad block plus actually 534 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: ended up, and not not just among advertisers. Clearly it's 535 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: controversial to them, but also to users, users who said, hey, 536 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't want this to be on by default. I 537 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: don't want to have to go into my settings and 538 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: change it. They ended up for king ad block plus 539 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: because it couldn't get more confusing, right uh, and created 540 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: ad block Edge, which doesn't have any of the white 541 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: listing features. It's essentially this is this is just going 542 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: to block everything unless you manually go in and tell 543 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: it not to write um and and a brief point 544 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: going back to that monetary issue UM In that company 545 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: blog from ad block Plus, basically they said that less 546 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: than ten percent of the applications that they've advanced to 547 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: the final stages UM were submitted with some kind of 548 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: monetary benefit to ad block plus. So some were submitted 549 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: with monetary benefit. Yes, that just raises more questions. Really, 550 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: I don't know that I would call that so clarifying anymore. 551 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a clarification of the 552 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: clarifying statement. After this next set of ADS, I promise 553 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: will block more until we need to run more ads. 554 00:31:52,400 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: Take it away ads. This is, UH is beyond just 555 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: the issue of I don't want to see ADS or 556 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: I find this intrusive. There there are other thing considerations 557 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: that are legitimate that people have because today the way 558 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: the web works, there's a lot of different ways to 559 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: kind of gather information about users, even in ways that 560 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: don't necessarily name who you are, but if there's enough 561 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: of your behavior there, they can totally tell who you are. 562 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: They can and they can certainly track you anonymous user number, 563 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: you know x online as much as they want to, 564 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: and people do continually, and a lot of that tracking 565 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: software is packaged along with ad serving software, so so 566 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, and these are are modern times of big data. 567 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: It's kind of an issue. Um As of March, ad 568 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: block plus claim to have the capacity to block eight 569 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: thousand six different trackers, you know, different cookies and scripts 570 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: and all that other stuff that runs in the background 571 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: of sites that you visit, collecting continual information about you 572 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: and your activities and your habits to either use or 573 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: to sell to other companies, you know, companies that are 574 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: sifting through it for whatever potentially nefarious purposes they choose 575 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: to or just other advertisers. It may not be so 576 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: much nefarious, but it could just mean that you're going 577 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: to get yet more ads right right, and and those 578 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: weird creepy ads that show that they know what you've 579 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: been looking at on Amazon dot Com right right, Like 580 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: when you go to Facebook and you notice that all 581 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: the ads on Facebook somehow match things that you had 582 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: just been browsing on a totally different site. What really 583 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: confuses me is when they serve me ads of something 584 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: that I just purchased because I'm like, I I did 585 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: like that thing. Yeah, I already thought it. I bought 586 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: the thing that you told me to. I'm not going 587 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: to buy it again. I'm not going to click there. 588 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: What confuses me is when I get the ones for 589 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: enormous muscles, because y'all, I don't know if you see 590 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: me recently, but I mean you're basically already already human perfections. Actually, 591 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like you know, I don't so much have 592 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: a six pack as I have a raging kicker. That's 593 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: what I've got going on. But anyway, so to get 594 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 1: down to the the side that we're on. So we're 595 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: Lauren and I Obviously we both work for a company 596 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: that's a web based company. We get, uh, you know, 597 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: there there are ads that run on how Stuff Works 598 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Absolutely, and so we run ads in our podcast. 599 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: It's a it's a different kind of thing certainly, but 600 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: still it's it's that's how that's that's one of the 601 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: main ways we generate revenue. Yeah, that that is what 602 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: allows us to have jobs. Right, So if everyone were 603 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: to block it and it got to a point where 604 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: advertisers said, well this, this isn't working because now we 605 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: can no longer make any money. Like essentially, if you 606 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: pull the rug out from underneath that entire industry, you, uh, 607 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: it forces everyone to have to rethink how do I 608 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: make money? Because if I can't make money, I'm not 609 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: going to do this. I'm gonna go do something else 610 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: where I can make money. Sure, so you know, are 611 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: you going to put your content behind pay walls of 612 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: various tiers or are you going to rely on donations 613 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: or merchandise? Uh? And and none of those are as 614 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: easy I guess as just selling ad spaces, right, Yeah, 615 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: And it all depends. Like there's some larger organizations that 616 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: have a historical following that could do things like shift 617 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: to a paywall method and still stay afloat. There are 618 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: others that cannot, just as there are examples of uh 619 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: companies that or or individuals who exist on on patronage. 620 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: There's there's the site Patreon now where you can pledge 621 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: a certain amount per month for people who are doing 622 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 1: things and a crowdfunding you know that the controversial Penny 623 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: Arcade crowdfunder that that basically let them run their site 624 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: for a year for you. So, I mean there there 625 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: are other ways, but it's not necessarily something that's within 626 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: the grasp of everyone. So sure, you know, I think 627 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: that the general recommendation is too if you like a site, 628 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: uh white list it and and let let it serve 629 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: you ads, right and uh so yeah, I mean this 630 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: needs to be an ongoing conversation between users and advertisers 631 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: and the companies that want to advertise, right, because, like 632 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: I said, most most companies are saying, we want people 633 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: to be encouraged to buy our goods and services or 634 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: to at least have a more increased awareness of them. 635 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: We would rather that increased awareness doesn't come along with Oh, 636 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: those are those irritating so and so's that always block 637 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: it whenever I want to watch such and such a right, right. 638 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting that in all of this Google, 639 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 1: which is an ad company, don't don't ever think it's 640 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: a search company because that's not what they're there for. Um, 641 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, they allowed, they chose to allow ad blocking 642 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: extensions for for Chrome for its browser. UM. Speaking about 643 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: the Jonathan Rosenberg, the senior vice president of Product Management 644 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: as of two thousand nine, wrote in an in company 645 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: letter UM that aiding users with options can can really 646 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: only grow and enrich the Internet community at large. Yeah, 647 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: it's a very interesting take. I mean, particularly from someone who, 648 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: like like you said, is working for essentially an ad company. 649 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: You know, they absolutely didn't have to do that, and 650 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty pretty beautiful that they do. I 651 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: have a quote actually from another Google employee, one um 652 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: Linus Upson, who is of at least was Google's engineering director, 653 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: about this entire issue. He said, it's unlikely ad blockers 654 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: are going to get to the level where they imperil 655 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: the advertising market, because if advertising is so annoying that 656 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: a large segment of the population wants to block it, 657 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: then advertising should get less annoying. Yeah, I agree with that. 658 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, the best way of going 659 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: about this is to design ads that are that definitely 660 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: advertise your product or service, but don't do so at 661 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: the expense of the user experience. It's really I mean, 662 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: that's easy to say, it's really hard to do because 663 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: but but you know, I kind of appreciate that it's 664 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: pushing the design impetus back to the people responsible for it. 665 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: It's saying like, don't create bad stuff. If you want 666 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: people to not block it, don't don't go with the 667 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: easy approach of using something that blocks their view of 668 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: what they're trying to get at, or something that's so 669 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: eye catching that you literally can't pay attention to anything 670 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: else on the page. Right if it if it looks 671 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: like a MySpace page, let's the old school MySpace. By 672 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: the way, it's like Geo c s that would have 673 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: been a better way of putting it. Yeah, if it 674 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: looks like a Geo cities page, you may want to 675 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: revisit that unless you're doing it specifically for the irony 676 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: and it's going on a site that that would that 677 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 1: would fit in well. And that wraps up that classic 678 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: episode of tech stuff the things I wanted to say 679 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: about ad blockers. So I used to be a big 680 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: user of ad blockers because a lot of ads were 681 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: so intrusive, particularly the ones that would just launch with 682 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: audio and video out of nowhere, and it was really disruptive, 683 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,760 Speaker 1: especially if you're someone who's doing a lot of research 684 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: you've got a lot of tabs open, maybe you don't 685 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: even know which tab is the one that's making the noise. 686 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: I know that at least in Google Chrome you can 687 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: see the little megaphone icon that shows which one is 688 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: playing noise. But when you've got like twenty tabs open, 689 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: it's hard to even see that. So you know, it's 690 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: one of those things where because the ad experience was 691 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: so bad, I didn't want to have to deal with it. However, 692 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: that being said, I also these days feel like it's 693 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: really giving the short end of the stick to the 694 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: companies that are running the uh, the site or service 695 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: that I'm on. You know, that's how they generate revenue. 696 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: And if I'm denying that, then if you do enough 697 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 1: people do that, then the stuff goes away, right, There's 698 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: not enough money to support it. And as someone whose 699 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,280 Speaker 1: job depends upon ad revenue, I I get it. Um. 700 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: I wish that ads could be less intrusive, and I've 701 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: actually found some ads to be really helpful. I followed 702 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: some ads, and I've bought stuff. Heck, I've bought stuff 703 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: from other podcast ads and including some of my own. 704 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,959 Speaker 1: I've used my own. I've used my own discount code 705 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: to buy stuff, so they do work, but yeah, I 706 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: don't like that. I still only the disruptive ones that 707 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: ends up being something that sticks in my you know, 708 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: six center my skin, and I don't care for it. 709 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: But I definitely understand the need for ads, and um, yeah, 710 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: I don't use ad blockers anymore. Sometimes that ends up 711 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: being a challenging situation. But at the end of the day, 712 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: that was the choice I made. Not that I'm telling 713 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: any of you guys how to choose to do things, 714 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: just that it was something that I ultimately decided. I would, 715 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: you know, live in an ad filled world because I 716 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: want the stuff I to keep going. All right, that's it. 717 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: If you guys have suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, 718 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: reach out to me. The best way to do that 719 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: is over on Twitter and the handle we use as 720 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,280 Speaker 1: text Stuff hs W and I'll talk to you again 721 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: really soon. Y. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. 722 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 723 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 724 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.