WEBVTT - The Flower

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<v Speaker 1>Warning. This episode contains references to violence, domestic abuse, and

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<v Speaker 1>sexual assault. There's a fire in the women of my family.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's because they're born in the land of volcanoes,

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe it's because it's what they have to be

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<v Speaker 1>to survive. But every single one of them is like

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<v Speaker 1>a character from a Garcia Marquez novel. They burn hot,

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<v Speaker 1>and no one burns hotter than my Tiavilma Dina. My

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<v Speaker 1>Tiavilma describes herself as bratty, rebellious, and spirited, which I

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<v Speaker 1>would say is putting it mildly. She's the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>person who takes shit from no one, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>the best way to understand who she is is through

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<v Speaker 1>a story she told me about when she and her sister,

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<v Speaker 1>my Ta Marta were young girls is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea by Land.

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<v Speaker 1>Their father came home to find the two young girls

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<v Speaker 1>dancing on the kitchen table to a song on the radio.

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<v Speaker 1>He was an abusive drunk. As soon as he saw them,

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<v Speaker 1>they stopped, but he said, oh, so you like dancing,

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<v Speaker 1>Get up and dance for me, margharita you first. Marta

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to, but her father warned her, if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't dance for me, I'm going to beat you. Ula

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<v Speaker 1>got up on the table and danced. When he was satisfied,

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<v Speaker 1>he told her to get down, that it was Vilma's turn.

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<v Speaker 1>Pilma refused again. He demanded get up and dance, but

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<v Speaker 1>she said, why would I dance for you? He beat

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<v Speaker 1>her bloody with an extension chord all the while she

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<v Speaker 1>refused to dance.

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<v Speaker 2>Lostrapa, that's my Tia Vilma.

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<v Speaker 1>The only exception in my family of tough women was

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<v Speaker 1>my Dea Margarita. Pilma and Margharita were only two years

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<v Speaker 1>apart in age, and they were basically inseparable. They were

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<v Speaker 1>what we call in Spanish unya imoure as close as

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<v Speaker 1>the dirt is under a fingernail, And talking about Margharita

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<v Speaker 1>is one of the only times that my Tia Vilma's

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<v Speaker 1>voice softens.

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<v Speaker 3>Marra majors annos losa maori.

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<v Speaker 2>Betterinta.

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<v Speaker 1>She remembers my dear Margharita as being softer than the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of my family, prettier, gentler. She was named after

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<v Speaker 1>the Margharita flower. In English we call them daisies. A

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<v Speaker 1>flower is so simple and common you forget how beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>it is. The story of my Dia. Margherita's life and

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<v Speaker 1>death is like that. It's not an extraordinary story. It's common.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the story of so many Salvadoran women then and now.

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<v Speaker 1>It's one of the few stories that I knew about

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<v Speaker 1>my family, that my dear Margherita was killed by a

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<v Speaker 1>death squad. That shortly after my mom said goodbye to

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<v Speaker 1>her in El Salvador, masked men came in the night

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<v Speaker 1>to take her away. I'd always assumed that maybe she

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<v Speaker 1>was part of the FMLN. The leftis Geriez. The truth

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<v Speaker 1>was something so much more complicated, something that gets at

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<v Speaker 1>the heart of what war does to people. I'm Jasmine

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<v Speaker 1>Romero and this is Sacred Scandal, Season three, Nation of Saints.

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<v Speaker 1>This is episode six, The Flower. We'll be right back.

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<v Speaker 1>If you ask anyone in San Miguel about my family,

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<v Speaker 1>they'll probably answer you with one phrase. Les chilette. Ras

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<v Speaker 1>chilate is a hot, thick drink made from corn, ginger,

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<v Speaker 1>pepper and cinnamon, and selling chilatte in the mercado has

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<v Speaker 1>been my family business for generations. The women of my

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<v Speaker 1>family would load baskets full of hot chilatte on their

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<v Speaker 1>heads and head to the market to sell them. I

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<v Speaker 1>asked my Tiavilmar to show me what it sounds like

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<v Speaker 1>when she sells chilatte. The chilata comes in plastic baggies.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember drinking it when I was a kid, tearing

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<v Speaker 1>the corner of the bag with my teeth and sucking

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<v Speaker 1>the chilatte out. It's kind of sweet, but mostly Herbi,

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<v Speaker 1>my great grandma, was in charge of making a huge

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<v Speaker 1>batch of chilat at dawn. Once it was ready, the

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<v Speaker 1>women of my family would go to her house and

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<v Speaker 1>load up their baskets, and there were a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>chila terras. Remember my mom is one of nine.

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<v Speaker 3>Is the Anna is La Mayor, Margharita, Doos, Bill Matres, Mercedes, Quatro.

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<v Speaker 2>Mercedes.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess when you have nine siblings it's easy to

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<v Speaker 1>lose track. It's also tough to remember them all because

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<v Speaker 1>in Alsavaor no one really calls you by your real name.

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<v Speaker 1>Almost everyone goes my nicknames Mauricio, Florentine, Holain, La Jus,

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<v Speaker 1>Roxanna becomes China, Maria de Jesus becomes Cheos. You get

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<v Speaker 1>the picture. Selling chilate is how my dis will man

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<v Speaker 1>Margharita would spend their days in San Miguel. They from

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<v Speaker 1>young girls to teenagers, carrying those heavy baskets on top

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<v Speaker 1>of their heads, going up and down the streets of Elmergado,

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<v Speaker 1>calling for customers, selling the bags for twenty cents. By

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<v Speaker 1>the summer of nineteen eighty one, Margherita was nineteen and

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<v Speaker 1>she had three young kids. She had just separated from

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<v Speaker 1>the father of her kids, who was an abusive alcoholic.

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<v Speaker 1>It was Vilma who convinced her to leave him.

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<v Speaker 3>Yo la vive, la viv I cannot say parde lombres,

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<v Speaker 3>yes dolts.

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<v Speaker 1>At the time, Vilma was seventeen and dating a guy

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<v Speaker 1>named El Bajaro the Bird. His real name was Walter,

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<v Speaker 1>but everyone just called him El Bajaro. I suspect it's

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<v Speaker 1>because he had a big nose. Elbajaro's family had all

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<v Speaker 1>left for the US, so he had his place all

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<v Speaker 1>to himself. It was kind of a crash pad where

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<v Speaker 1>friends would party before going to dances in town, so

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<v Speaker 1>he told Margharita that she could stay there. Margherita moved

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<v Speaker 1>in and soon she met one of El Bajado's best friends,

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<v Speaker 1>a guy named Chara. The two of them hit it

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<v Speaker 1>off and started dating. They became like the cast of

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<v Speaker 1>a sitcom. Two sisters dating, two best friends, Bilma and Elbajo,

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<v Speaker 1>Margharita and Chara. The girls would spend their days in

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<v Speaker 1>the mercado, but at night they danced. To this day,

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<v Speaker 1>my Tia Vilma loves to dance. She'll dance anywhere, at

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<v Speaker 1>any time, for any reason, and I love to watch

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<v Speaker 1>her dance. That fall, one of her favorite singers was

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<v Speaker 1>in town, Maria chacao A. Bilma was eight months pregnant,

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<v Speaker 1>but that wasn't going to stop her from going to

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<v Speaker 1>the dance land. By the fall of nineteen eighty one,

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<v Speaker 1>the war had started to trickle down into the streets.

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<v Speaker 1>Every once in a while there were shootouts in town,

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<v Speaker 1>but for the most part the combat was happening in

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<v Speaker 1>the hills. And what does a seventeen year old care

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<v Speaker 1>about politics and war anyway, My teas just wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>do what all teenagers want to do. Party.

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<v Speaker 2>That's yota, They war on Macho.

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<v Speaker 1>They would go to at Baho's house to pregame and

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<v Speaker 1>drink before heading to the dance. Now, I know it's

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<v Speaker 1>not great that Mike Tia Vilma was drinking while she

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<v Speaker 1>was eight months pregnant. It's easy to judge, but I

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<v Speaker 1>try to have grace for someone who was seventeen, had

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<v Speaker 1>never been to school, and didn't really know any better.

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<v Speaker 1>On the night of November fourteenth, the four of them

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<v Speaker 1>were pregaming at Albajaro's house, but pregaming turned into just drinking,

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<v Speaker 1>and pretty soon it was late at night and Mike

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<v Speaker 1>Tiavilma wasn't feeling so great.

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<v Speaker 2>Lacynthia y Maria.

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<v Speaker 1>I know. Vilma wanted to leave to spend that night

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<v Speaker 1>at my great Grandma's house, but Margharita wanted to stay.

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<v Speaker 1>She wasn't ready for the night to end. They argued

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth for a bit, but finally Bilma gave

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<v Speaker 1>up and left her there. When Vilma got to my

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<v Speaker 1>great grandma's house, my grandma asked her, where's Margharita la

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<v Speaker 1>my Dea. Vilma just shrugged it off. She told her

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<v Speaker 1>I tried to bring her, but she didn't want to come.

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<v Speaker 2>Para midichus.

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<v Speaker 1>My grandma was worried that something would happen to Margharita,

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<v Speaker 1>but Vilma just went off to bed. The next morning,

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<v Speaker 1>someone arrived at my great Grandma's house with a message

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<v Speaker 1>a young don't wait for Margharita, they said. She said,

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<v Speaker 1>the morgue, We'll be right back after the break. Mitia man,

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<v Speaker 1>that's my grandma. She remembers thinking it was strange that

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<v Speaker 1>my Tia Margharita didn't come home that night, because Margharita

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<v Speaker 1>was such a hard worker. It was a Sunday morning,

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<v Speaker 1>and Sundays were always good selling days in the market.

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<v Speaker 4>Domingo.

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<v Speaker 1>A man came by and knocked on the big wooden

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<v Speaker 1>gate at the front of the house. She thought they

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<v Speaker 1>were just coming to get mimbroso umbros. Mimbros are a fruit,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like a star fruit. There's a big mimbre

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<v Speaker 1>tree in the yard of my grandma's house, and the

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<v Speaker 1>local drunks would come by sometimes and ask my grandma

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<v Speaker 1>for some free fruit. But that's not what they wanted.

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<v Speaker 1>Helioka Well, they told her that the National Guard had

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<v Speaker 1>rounded up some people last night and that Margherita was

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<v Speaker 1>one of them. My grandma didn't believe it. She was

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<v Speaker 1>sure that Margherita would turn up later. God willing, she said,

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<v Speaker 1>she had no reason to think that Margherita would be taken.

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<v Speaker 1>To understand why Mithia Margherita was killed. We have to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the death squads and why they existed in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place. Earlier, we talked about how Roberto Lauson

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<v Speaker 1>was central to the creation of Loses Squadron the death

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<v Speaker 1>squads in El Salvador. These death squads were paramilitary groups

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<v Speaker 1>that were not officially part of the government. They were

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<v Speaker 1>usually comprised of soldiers, police officers, and National guardsmen who

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<v Speaker 1>were paid on the side to carry out operations at night.

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<v Speaker 1>The alleged goal of these groups was to gather information

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<v Speaker 1>to find out who was part of the leftist Geria

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<v Speaker 1>group that had declared war on the government, the FMLN.

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<v Speaker 1>These were the same squads who were targeting priests, nuns,

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<v Speaker 1>and religious workers all over the country, but their directives

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<v Speaker 1>kept escalating and their targets became more and more broad.

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<v Speaker 1>First it was the leftists, then it was anyone who

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<v Speaker 1>was helping the leftists, then it was anyone sympathetic to

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<v Speaker 1>the leftists. To gather the information they needed, the death

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<v Speaker 1>squads would torture their victims. Once the information was extracted,

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<v Speaker 1>they would kill the person with a mercy bullet through

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<v Speaker 1>the temple and dump the body in a rural area.

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<v Speaker 1>It's estimated that of the seventy five thousand people killed

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<v Speaker 1>during the Civil War, forty thousand of them were killed

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<v Speaker 1>by death squads, not in combat, but in secret, taken

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<v Speaker 1>from their homes in the dead of the night. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what happened to Matia Margharita. The next morning, she

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<v Speaker 1>was found on the side of the road, along with

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<v Speaker 1>the bodies of Walter Baho, her boyfriend Schara, and two other.

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<v Speaker 4>Men Fuelen Blumen Quatro Ayena more yea Jenna Plante.

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<v Speaker 1>Matia Vilma went with my grandmother to identify Margharita's body

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<v Speaker 1>at the.

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<v Speaker 2>Morgue Mirma and subra is La Choki Comando.

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<v Speaker 1>Margharita had cigarette burns on her arms and belt marks

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<v Speaker 1>on her neck and wrists. Matia Vilma instantly understood where

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<v Speaker 1>they came from. She had seen the chair where they

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<v Speaker 1>tortured people. As part of her route selling chilate. She

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<v Speaker 1>would stop by the local police precinct and sell to

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<v Speaker 1>the cops. She'd been inside, She said. Chair looked like

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<v Speaker 1>a dentist chair, but with leather straps hanging off the sides.

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<v Speaker 1>But why would they have taken Margharita. She wasn't a

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<v Speaker 1>political activist she wasn't a union organizer. She was just

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<v Speaker 1>a teenage girl. I'd always assumed that maybe she was

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<v Speaker 1>secretly a part of the f MLN, or maybe her

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<v Speaker 1>boyfriend Chara was, But the answer came to my Tia

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<v Speaker 1>Vilma there at the morgue, while she was identifying her

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<v Speaker 1>sister's body, an what Charra's mother was there to identify

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<v Speaker 1>her son. Crying over her son's body, she cursed Gita,

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<v Speaker 1>saying it was her fault that her son was killed.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't until much later that Vilma understood what she meant.

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<v Speaker 1>Chara's mother didn't approve of his relationship with Margharita. To

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<v Speaker 1>this day, no one's really sure why, but the story

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<v Speaker 1>goes it was Charra's mother who sent a tip to

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<v Speaker 1>the National Guard.

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<v Speaker 2>The Benganza.

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<v Speaker 1>She told them that Margharita was hiding f m l

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<v Speaker 1>N soldiers no name, la senor this thing. Chara's mother

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<v Speaker 1>didn't realize that if they came to take Margharita, they

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<v Speaker 1>would take everyone who was there, including her son. That night,

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<v Speaker 1>the death squad killed Margharita, Charao, and two witnesses that

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<v Speaker 1>saw them taking the group. A man who was across

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<v Speaker 1>the street cleaning a school yard, and his son. All

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<v Speaker 1>of them received the same fate Fromitia Vilma. It was

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<v Speaker 1>a bitter irony. Vilma was the tough one. Vilma was

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<v Speaker 1>the fighter. I always carried a knife in my bra

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<v Speaker 1>she tells me, just in case. My sister didn't even

0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:05.960
<v Speaker 1>carry a needle. My Grandma, Madia Vilma, and the rest

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.959
<v Speaker 1>of my family buried Margarita in a simple wood box.

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.360
<v Speaker 1>They borrowed money from the other vendors and at mercado

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.359
<v Speaker 1>to put the funeral together. The lady who owned the

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>flower shop that my mom worked at, she gave my

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.960
<v Speaker 1>grandma the rest of the money she needed. My grandma

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.200
<v Speaker 1>went back to work the very next day, selling chiletta

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 1>in the market. She says she didn't shed a single tear.

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:46.080
<v Speaker 4>Yo Mima mahino hokomo Perqueylarima parati particular in particular, in particular,

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 4>Riora peramino meslarima.

0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Amdia Vilma says, my grandmother does cry for Margarita now

0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 1>in her sleep.

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:13.560
<v Speaker 3>Jora madre antesui.

0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 1>My ta. Margarita was in a saint far from it.

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 1>By the teachings of the Catholic Church. She was a sinner,

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:32.439
<v Speaker 1>but she was one of Oscar Romero's people. When he

0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:39.480
<v Speaker 1>preached about nuestros or suffering people, he meant her not

0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:50.600
<v Speaker 1>a saint, but a martyr all the same. On the

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.879
<v Speaker 1>next episode, we'll talk about one of the most controversial

0:23:53.880 --> 0:24:01.920
<v Speaker 1>moments from the war, one that people are still debating today.

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:13.040
<v Speaker 1>That's next time on Nation of Saints Sacred Scandal. Nation

0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:15.879
<v Speaker 1>of Saints is the production of a HA podcasts in

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:19.639
<v Speaker 1>partnership with Iheart's Michaultura podcast network, and is hosted and

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:24.240
<v Speaker 1>written by me Jasmine Romero, produced by Jazmine Romero with

0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:28.520
<v Speaker 1>help from Alvaro Sespeles. Research and reporting by Jasmine Romero,

0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:32.439
<v Speaker 1>edited by sare Kevelo. Nation of Saints was recorded in

0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:34.840
<v Speaker 1>New York City at the Relic Room, with engineering by

0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Sam Bear, mixing and sound designed by Paciquinones. Original music

0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 1>by Golden Mines, Darko and Ieme based on Patrick Hart's

0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:49.480
<v Speaker 1>original composition. Fact checking by Erendidra Aquino Ayala. Executive producers

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:53.119
<v Speaker 1>are Gorman gerterol Isaac Lee Rose Reed, and Nando Villa.

0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:57.359
<v Speaker 1>Our executive producers at iHeart are Giselle Bansis and Arlene Santana.

0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Sacred Scandal was created by Lenie Bartley and Baula Badros.

0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:06.359
<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Alice Wilder. For more podcasts, go to

0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:09.680
<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts.