1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: bog bitten in my case underwear listening Hunt podcast, you 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are 4 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the 5 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, nor 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: where you stand with on X. We're gonna start out 7 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: with an announcement about Doss Boat, like the actual boat 8 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: dos Boat V one you could call it. And I 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: don't mean the show dos Bolt mean the physical vessel, 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: the boat. Um. We are auctioning off Doss Bowl and 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: other cool items in order to to close the final 12 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: gap for our Land Access Initiative project. Ch kel Now 13 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: explained Land Access Initiative right. So we took all the 14 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: profits from Ronnella who tell us campaign merchandise that everybody bought, 15 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, And now we're taking your hard earned money 16 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: and our hard earned money. We're we're giving it two 17 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: the High Peaks Alliance outside of Kingsfield, Maine for a 18 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: property that will provide more hunting and fishing for America. 19 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: It's an access project like you name the thing. Yeah, 20 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: It's called Shilo Pond and Shilo pond is uh you 21 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: know around here we'd call it a lake um. And 22 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: uh it's there's an old logging road that you walk 23 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: down for about five minutes to get to the lakes. 24 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: So right now it's put access only um. And it's 25 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: thirty three ft deep, which is really bizarre, not that 26 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: big of a of a pond that's deeper than the 27 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: lake I grew up on. Yeah, it's wild sixty are 28 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: lake and uh, yeah it's a beautiful little spot. And 29 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: uh it has been um publicly accessible for generations, but 30 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: on private land. And now that private land is for sale. 31 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: Oh and the you know, the folks around Kingsfield uh 32 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: and particularly this fellow Brent West of the High Peaks 33 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: Alliance have really really gotten after trying to secure this 34 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: piece of property. Uh. And no longer have it be private, 35 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: so it'll be a piece of public ground perpetuity, available 36 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: in perpetuity, with hunting and fishing being part of the 37 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 1: access or part of the management plan for the property 38 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: and perpetuity as well. Yeah, Cal has been Um. We 39 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: were soliciting suggestions for a land access initiative project and 40 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: Cal waited through quite a few submissions and actually went 41 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: out and flew out firsthand to investigate yes, and and 42 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: had waited around, smelled around, poked around, met people, visited 43 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: the place, went to the like, checked it out, dip 44 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: my toes in the water, did an investigative trip, came 45 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: back thumbs up. This is what we're doing. We got 46 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: a little chunk of change to go. So we're like, 47 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: how are we gonna raise this money. We're gonna raise 48 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: this money by selling auctioning off Doss boat. So go 49 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: watch go on YouTube on the meat Eater channel on YouTube, 50 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: and you watched the whole damn Doss Boat show. It's 51 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: a YouTube series that boat. So he started out bought 52 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: a boat on Craigslist site unseen, an old aluminum center 53 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: console fishing boat, and then did massive modifications to said 54 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: the boat. Reinforced the entire thing, beefed up the trailer. 55 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: Put a brand spicking new Honda that got a thirty 56 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: or forty on it. Put a Honda forty so this 57 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: is like a low hours, brand new Honda forty four 58 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: stroke on the back of this thing. It has a 59 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: genuine original Ed Anderson painting that's about how long six 60 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: ft a six ft long Ed Anderson original painting on 61 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the boat. It is rigged out and it's just like 62 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: entirely rigged out. Just get into the electronics package. Uh 63 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: so we should know it as a sixteen ft v 64 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: hole ilumicraft from is just the whole. The Honda four 65 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: stroke outboard engine features all sorts of awesome stuff that 66 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: I probably don't need to go into. But it is 67 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: a highly sought after UM premium outboard motor uh from Honda. 68 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: Plus it's got a mental to old Treks removable bow 69 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: mounted trolling motor with eighty pounds of thrust, which is 70 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: probably equivalent to the outboard engine I own UM built 71 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: in sonar capability and I pilot link GPS with autopilot 72 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: and spot lock, which, um, if you aren't familiar, that 73 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: means you can actually go out and fish by yourself, 74 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: no friends necessary, highly accessorized. Yes, um, we got a 75 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: casting platform that I built. We have a self stabilizing 76 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: removable charcoal grill added by Chef Jesse Griffith's um jt 77 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: vans and did some fishing on there. This this is 78 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: a boat full of character and at this point it 79 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: is an absolute fishing machine too. Yeah, so we did 80 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: all the work. We put the thing together and all 81 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: the money, all the money goes to public access. It 82 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: goes to a specific public access project that you can 83 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: go like cal did, you can go sniff it and 84 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: dip your toes into it. If you just tag it, 85 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be a waste of time to go out 86 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: there and make some annoying cowt cow moose calls. Check 87 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: that spot out. UM. We gotta call our things to 88 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: to cover us on our on our expenses. Here I 89 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: have I am auctioning off I've donated to the Land 90 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: Access Project um, and it's up for sale now. A 91 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: weather we Mark five left handed Mark five six five caliber. 92 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: Accompanying this rifle is a year amount of a cous 93 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: deer that I shot with the rifle. So you get 94 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: the gun and the skull and antlers of a deer 95 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: I shot with it. And this rifle has been on 96 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: this This rifle has also been on episodes of the 97 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: me Eater TV show, which if you're ever gonna get 98 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: a second hand rifle, if you think about it, it 99 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: should always come with proof. That thing works a lot 100 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: of places to send you a little target, you know, 101 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: with some holes in it to show this comes with 102 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: the damn did dead, dear, so you can get that 103 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: at auction. What else we got, kyl y He's got 104 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: stuff you throw in. Yanni's literally pulling things off of 105 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: his back, including his backpack, all the things that brought 106 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: him good luck from the two thousand nineteen season. UM. 107 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: I am donating a incredibly awesome, powerful, clean, quiet steal 108 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: ms a two twenty electric chainsaw that is my personal 109 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: chance on and it's fantastic low hours, low hours UM 110 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: truck chainsaw. And I'm even gonna write a personalized inscription 111 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: to who ever buys this thing. The folks at Steel 112 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: are throwing in an entire personal protection equipment packet with 113 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: chaps and gloves and eye pro and helmet uh and 114 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: a few other goodies in there for you. I am 115 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,239 Speaker 1: going to pass along some excellent knowledge in the form 116 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: of an entirely synthetic fish, which is just a fantastic 117 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: book on wildlife management UH centered around the rainbow Troute 118 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: and the history of the rainbows. You'll sign this book 119 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: over to the purchaser. Yes, yes, the UM, but it 120 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: will be a good thing to get your conservation library 121 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: started and off of my own back. Is my very 122 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: first and most well worn back country hunters and Anglers, 123 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: Public land Owner t shirt that has uh has been 124 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: through all the trials and tribulations of the restarted, the 125 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: sage Brush Rebellion, and being all sorts of pro public lands. 126 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: So uh, we photographed all this stuff. When the photograph 127 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: you sure I feel like when you go online to 128 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: see all the auction items, including the big like there's 129 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: a great spread on doss boat, like you can really 130 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: dig in, but they should put the little stink lines 131 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: and everything coming off the Uh. So you can go 132 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: to go to the meat eater dot com and up 133 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: in the banner somewhere around there thereabouts you will find 134 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: our Land Access Initiative auction which we're using to close 135 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: the gap, to finish up the gap and finish off 136 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: the project of more better hunting and fishing for America. 137 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Go and do this, yeah, and bid, make a bid. 138 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: We were just gonna do the boat, and they were 139 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: like how many The only one dude can buy a boat. 140 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: One person can buy a boat. So we added all 141 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: this other stuff going there and get bidden. We gotta 142 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: get we gotta finish this thing up. There's a deadline. 143 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: There's a deadline coming up where this sale is gonna 144 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: go through and we need to get in there and 145 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: get it taken care of. So the auction is only 146 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: open for it week. We got a closer out. Selfishly, 147 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna get amazing gear that all your friends are 148 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: gonna be very jealous of because it already comes with 149 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: a bunch of good luck stories. Um. But not selfishly, 150 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: you're gonna be also getting like the warm, fuzzy feeling 151 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: of making a difference by securing public ground in perpetuity 152 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: in a spot that has zero public ground. Yeah. And 153 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: to guarantee that this is cal can't say this, but 154 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: for me to guarantee that this is not motivated personally, 155 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: I have taken a personal pledge avow to not personally 156 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: hunt or to not personally hunt or fish this property. 157 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: I've already fished it, but that's called due diligence. I 158 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: might go and watch someone do it. I might go 159 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: and say how they're doing it wrong or whatever. I 160 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: would eat fish from it, but I will not personally 161 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: hunt or fish this property. This is not lining my 162 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: own pockets with sweet spots on the other side of 163 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: the continent. Yeah, and we don't want to stop here either. 164 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: So this, this is Uh, a great start. It's a 165 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: great spot. There's many of these high value small parcels 166 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: around and we want to know about them. So yeah, 167 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: and you know what you could do we talk about 168 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: the other day. A reasonable move would be to buy 169 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: doss Boat, take the engine and all the electronics, get 170 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: a torch, cut out the painting, hang that on the 171 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: wall of your bar, and then just be like, if 172 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: you boys can keep the rest, well, you know you 173 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: probably want the whole thing, but that in and of 174 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: itself would be of extraordinary value, extraordinary value. You're you're 175 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: coming out ahead. So yeah, we want a boatload of 176 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: cash for Doss Boat. So don't you know, get all 177 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: penny pincher on it and look up what everything costs, 178 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: and then stop bidding once it gets there. Um, this 179 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: is a good deal, even at full value, because you're 180 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: making a heck of a contribution for un told generations 181 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: of folks who want to go outside. Yeah, the good 182 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: people of Maine, which are de facto good people the 183 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: United States of America depend on you. Now. Unto our 184 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: interview with Tom Brokaw. All right, everyone, we're on Tom 185 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: Brokaw's back porch along a beautiful stretch of Creek in Montana, 186 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: and Mr Brokaw came to us by way of Tom mcgwain, 187 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: a past guest, and I believe you also used to 188 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: spend time mountain climbing with Ivan Snard, who's been on 189 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: this show. How did you How did you become to 190 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: be friends with McQueen? Well, I've known a by the time, 191 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: because generationally we're about the same. And then it was 192 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: a period of time when he was living in uh 193 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: keep his skein in other areas where he was notorious 194 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: and he they loved him at Esquire magazine because they 195 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: could write an article about him every week and it 196 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: was his now brother in law, Jimmy was there and 197 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: a lot of other characters, and uh so I was 198 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: from a distance, very intrigued by them, and we had 199 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: a lot of common interest. But as I told him, Waiter, 200 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: I didn't want to get involved with you because I 201 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: would not have survived the way you guys were living. 202 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: It just wouldn't have worked for me. Uh. I mean, 203 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 1: he was writing this early stuff, you know, and uh 204 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: he was my generation frankly, so that's how I first 205 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: knew of him. And then when we came out here, 206 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: which is a step back. I got interested in Montana 207 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: because they came out to do a speech in northern 208 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: Montana and Marth and I were doing a lot of 209 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: backpacking at the time in California and Colorado and so on, 210 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: and we asked to be set up with a backpack 211 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: trip and we went across Scape Guilt Wilderness early June, 212 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: and there was a trust tough time, but we were 213 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: really taken with Montana. So I was looking around for 214 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: some place that we're either going to do the East 215 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: coast to become sailors, that we were going to be 216 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: coming to the west and become fly pershment and the 217 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: horse people. And we decided to come here. And I 218 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: went down to the West Boulder where we had a 219 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: prospect of a place that we're going to buy, and 220 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: I was invited over by Tom to just have a 221 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: cup of coffee. I've never met him before, and uh, 222 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: it was love at first sight, as we both say, uh, 223 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, we really had a lot of shared values 224 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: and interests and and kind of a quirky sense of humor, 225 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: and it's, uh, it's a real brotherhood. When I was 226 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: reading about how you grew up and very much in 227 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: small town South Dakota and around. You know, I guess 228 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: pretty what would now be deemed conservative values and like 229 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: work ethics. But then later in life you kind of 230 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: fell in with sort of these uh like some of 231 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: the Libertines, you know, some fast living people. Did you ever, 232 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: did you often feel there to be like, uh, difficult 233 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: transition for you to jump from these very very rural 234 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: America to these kind of fast living you know, well 235 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: by show biz. Yeah, I wouldn't quite call it fast Lily. 236 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: I always wanted bright lights, big city when I was 237 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: growing up. Yeah, I was always looking over the horizon. 238 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't I was. You know, all my friends and 239 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: my family especially said I was pretty precocious about what 240 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: was going on in the world, and I wanted to 241 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: be a part of it. Uh So that was my destination. 242 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: And then what happened was I got to be a 243 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: part of it in a pretty elevated way. But when 244 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: I circled back to South Dakota, most from a geographical 245 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: and from a cultural point of view, I didn't want 246 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: to let go of that. I wanted to I knew 247 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: that shape who I am, and I wanted to retain 248 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: that as part of who I am. You know, we 249 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: brought Spencer new Hearth, who stayed next to me here 250 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: for two reasons. So you guys can do the um 251 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: South Dakota conversation, which I'd like you to have where 252 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: you go like, oh, I'm from there, and then too 253 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: because so if you can imagine if you had Spencer's voice, 254 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: how your career would have been even better. Well, people 255 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: often say to me, hey, how did you get involved 256 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: in the business be where did that voice come from? 257 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: And I said, they had a specialist serious one year 258 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: and I was able to get the voice. That's how 259 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: it worked out. But I was a talkative kid early, 260 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: and I had an enormous curiosity. There's a famous story 261 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: in our family were living on a army base during 262 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: World War Two and I was three or I think 263 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: three years old when it has happened. My mother had 264 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: to go into the post office. She's stay here, Tommy, 265 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going with you and she said I 266 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: I said, no, I gotta go with She's why do 267 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: you have to Why do you want to go with me? 268 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: I said, I've never seen the floor in there, So 269 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: I have always thought that was the foundation of who 270 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: I am. I wanted to see what was going on 271 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: on the other side of some place. You know, I 272 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: got kind of carried away. You know. I've been a 273 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: Catmando and all over the world, China during the Revolutions, Russia, 274 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: the far far Eastern part of Russia, all over Africa, 275 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: all over South America. Uh And it's always been rewarding. 276 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: And I always felt this is who I am. I'm 277 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: a bigger Tom broke cow fan than I think most 278 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: twenty eight year olds because I grew up thirty miles 279 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: from where you went to high school. I went to 280 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: the same college as you. Uh So, like, I love 281 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: the Tom Broke off story, but I'm especially interested in 282 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: the army base of Igloo that you spent a few 283 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: years on. That is like one of the strangest places 284 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: that you could probably grow up in, like a developed country. 285 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: Tell us about Iglou, Like how it came to be, 286 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: how you ended up there, Like, well, that community was like, well, 287 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: my dad had a very very difficult childhood, but he 288 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: was introduced to a caterpillar when he was about nineteen, 289 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: and it turns out manner and machine were meant for 290 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: each other. He became a highly demand heavy equipment operator 291 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: and that's when America was getting ready for the war. 292 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: He was in Kansas building airports across Kansas for the 293 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: long distance bomber runs. Uh there was a little uh 294 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: small arms factory that was being developed in New Brighton, Minnesota. 295 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: He was part of that. But then as a war 296 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: became more and more evident that it was going to happen, 297 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: he wanted to get a place to park us the family, 298 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: my mother and uh me and I had a another 299 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: brother on the way, and he heard about Iglo, South Dakota, 300 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: and so we drove through the night. I'll never forget it. 301 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: I had my face pasted to the windows because the 302 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: Black Hills were not very popular in that day. And 303 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: we mountain lion running alongside of us. For a while 304 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: there were dearer and you know, and everything everywhere. And 305 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: then the sun came up on this God forbid in 306 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: South Dakota called Agloo and it was all sage brush, rattlesnakes, 307 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: uh no water to speak of except slews. And my 308 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: dad said, we're going home, and she said, no, we 309 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: gotta stay. And it turned out to be a fabulous 310 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: experience for all of us. They have a little tiny houses. 311 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: I think the house that my parents put us in 312 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: was not much larger than the room in which you 313 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: now sit, and everybody there were five of us by 314 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: the end, it was about two hundred eighty square feet. 315 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: And my dad made the base go. I mean, everything 316 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: that needed to be fixed, he could fix it. Everything 317 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: that needed to be improved, he could improve it. So 318 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: his draft came up and he wanted to be a CB, 319 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: so he went to Denver. And by the time we 320 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: got to Denver, the base commander and Engloo said send 321 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: him back. We can't operate it without him. So we 322 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: were there for the duration. There was an enormous uh 323 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: presence of uniform American Army people who were part of 324 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: the Ordinance Division of the Army. Then there were the 325 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: civilians like us, and then on the edge of town 326 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: there were Italian prisoners of war, about two hundred of them, 327 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: and they wore these orange outfits. They were in a 328 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: lightly guarded why where were they going to go? And 329 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: captured in the European theater and flown to South Dakota 330 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: and they and that happened, you know, that happened out 331 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: here as well. I was I was in where was 332 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: I here? In Montana? One day oh, and I was 333 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: in buildings and I saw a guy with a very 334 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: sophisticated little Italian Uh. No, it was in Missoula, and 335 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: he had a very sophisticated little Italian food store. And 336 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: I said, where did you come from? He said, I've 337 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: been here for I said, came during the war, right, 338 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: And he said, how did you pick that out? I said, 339 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: because I lived in a place where there were other 340 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: Italian You were a prisoner of war And he said 341 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: I wasn't. I decided to stay. That's kind of lost 342 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: in history anyhow, the story about these Italian prisons of war, 343 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: which is you can now tell because the statue of 344 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: limitations is run out, turns out they were also to 345 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: put a politely servicing some of the war widows. You know, 346 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: they were at night visiting. Well yeah, and there were 347 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: some children that were born. Uh And it's never been 348 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: tracked down, but it's that's part of people now write 349 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: about that. So there, there we were in this town. 350 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: I can still tell you the name Joe was a 351 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: police chief who lived across the street, Promise. He was 352 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: a former rodeo writer. And then down the street were 353 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: the Silver Nails, And I remember seeing the silver Mills 354 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: son going off to war in his navy uniform, and 355 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: it was very exciting to be a part of that. 356 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: And out on the prairie, the igloos it sounded what's 357 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: called igloo because they created these igloo like things out 358 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: of the earth. And that's where they stored AMMO and 359 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: other high high performing of detonation stuff shipped up from 360 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: the Denver Rocky Mountain uh storage area because they knew 361 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: the Germans knew about that, and they wanted to get 362 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: someplace else. So there were bombs going off and stuff 363 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: going off all the time, and it was a lot 364 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: of fun to live there. Yeah, it was selected, believe 365 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: because of the ruralness of it, right, like there's nothing 366 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: else around. I got. It's the most I've been back. 367 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: And you know, it still was as remote as they come. 368 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: Rattlesnakes and sagebrush pretty much. And uh, but we stayed 369 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: and there was a community of culture, you know, it 370 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: all pulled together, all pay good attention to what was 371 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: going on. I had a very uh, saucy, sassy aunt 372 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: who was my mother's sister. She was kind of like 373 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: she was like my big sister. She was very young, 374 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: but she flew Piper Cubs and every guy in town 375 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: wanted to date her, you know. So it was there 376 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: was a lot going on. And then they typically they 377 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: builtard an infrastructure, you know. They had a high school 378 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: gym with a good basketball team. They had a movie theater, 379 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: we had a parade grounds, a good shopping area. Uh 380 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: and people were secured there. So it was one of 381 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: those amazing kind of developments in World War Two that 382 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: were lost to history after a while. Yeah, and the 383 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: whole thing was gone like by the sixties, right, Like 384 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: a population peak of Bigglue is probably like six or 385 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred people and then by like sixty three zero. Yeah, 386 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: it's not what you would call destination, right, pretty tough stuff. 387 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: I've shot antelope within eyesight of the egloos, so it's 388 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: it's that kind of country. Yeah, it was. And who 389 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: we used to see antal of a lot of my dad. 390 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: I remember it was not a hunter, but he had 391 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: all these uh wonderful weapons from a Swedish homesteader would 392 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: raise it at a thirty thirty which I still have, 393 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: a Winchester two which I still have, and a little 394 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: tiny uh saddle twenty two. Anyhow, somebody persuade him go 395 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: out and shoot a deer. I think he shot the 396 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: oldest deer in the history of that kind. It was 397 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: the toughest. We had one meal and that was it, 398 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, really, my parents though, well we got meat supply. No, no, no, 399 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, at one time that's it. And now that 400 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: area is you probably know, it's like very popular for 401 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: doomsday preppers. Those eight hundred ig lose, these big concrete 402 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: structures built into the earth. All kinds of people that 403 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: are are planning for armageddon. You can buy those, you 404 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: can them. Yeah, and some people have actually hit bottom 405 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: for that reason. They think armageddons coming. I've got a 406 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: place to hide out. It would be a good spot, 407 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: I think though. Now my tip to my tip to 408 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: armageddon preppers would be to not set up next to 409 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: armageddon preppers like that would be who would be most 410 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: suspicious of them? Well, there's there's because they because they 411 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: have a tendency to jump the guns. Sure, you know, 412 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: I would want a good prepping spot would be where 413 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: there's no preppers. Yeah, I feel well. The other the 414 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: characterization of the place was the high school nickname. The 415 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: team nickname were the Rattlers, So that's how you know 416 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: they were I mean, everybody you know knew what they 417 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: were up against. And we were there for well, we 418 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: didn't leave until forty seven. Then we moved to the 419 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: center part of the state to another very very barren 420 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: area where they were building poor randall. Damn nothing had 421 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: been done when we arrived. It was just the Rowing 422 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: Hills in the Missouri River part of the yank Tony 423 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: super Reservation. So that also was exciting for me because 424 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: I loved exploration, and I became very involved in the 425 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: geology of the area. And the people moved in from 426 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: all over the country, a lot of them coming right 427 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: out of the war, a lot of them from very 428 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: poor circumstances, and they were able to get good jobs. 429 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: I have later been in touch with friends of mine 430 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: and and I said, so, when you that picked out, 431 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: what was the most surprising? They said, we had indoor plumbing, 432 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: then heaven door plumbing. Before when you said that your 433 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: dad had a rough upbringing or a rough childhood in 434 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: what way? Just poverty or more complicated than that? Poverty, 435 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: more complicated the family. There were ten children in the family. 436 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: They had this big hotel, railroading hotel, which is not. 437 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: It was just a sweatshop and he was the last 438 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: of the group. He had a learning disability, had a 439 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: little difficulty reading, and nobody would kind of deal with 440 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: that at all. So in the third grade he dropped 441 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: out and he went to work for a Swedish homesteader 442 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: who was living in the hotel, who was a jack 443 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: of all trades. Uh you know. He had a team 444 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: of horses and he would drill wells and he would 445 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: houses and that kind of thing. And my dad, at 446 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: age nine, eight nine and ten, was working for him. 447 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: Did go up in the morning. They dropped my dad 448 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: head first don a well to retrieve the leathers that 449 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: have been lost down there in that well, or to 450 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: clear it out in some fashion. One he told the 451 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: story of it. Finally out the well set up, he 452 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: got up, changed his clothes, and a little tiny pig 453 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: ran down out of the well. They dropped him around 454 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: again head first to grab the pig and bring it out. 455 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the kind of life that he had. 456 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: He dropped out in third grade. He dropped out. He 457 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: didn't go to the didn't finish third grade. Now did 458 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: he ever go So he never went back. Oh no, 459 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: we went back all the time because he turned out 460 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: to be a success story. I mean he stunned everybody. 461 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: Everybody had rejected everything that happened in town, whether he 462 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: was around or not, he got blamed for and he 463 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: was aware of that. And when he was about twelve 464 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: or thirteen, he bought a team of sorrel horses and 465 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: he decorated him. And he was a genius at making 466 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: things happen. So he flinded gardens and mode lawns and 467 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: removed so and delivered coal and did all that when 468 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: he was a teenager, and his big goal was to 469 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: make something of himself. He never ever had a play date. 470 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: He never he never had a day in which he 471 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: could just on Sundays when everybody's playing baseball, he was working. 472 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: And his friends, who all admired him because he was 473 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: so strong and capable, said to me later, we just 474 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: couldn't get your dad to be one of us, you 475 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: know when it came to the weekend, because he had 476 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: a job to do. True for the rest of his life. 477 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: You know, I was a high school jockey, rarely showed 478 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: up in the games. I didn't mind that because he 479 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: was home putting in a new acoustical tile in our 480 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: dining room where he was fixing a car, or he 481 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: was buying something to you know, to make into a trailer. 482 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: He always had this other thing, and he had his 483 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: fantastic sense of humor, big red haired, good looking guy, 484 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: and he was wickedly funny with me and with everybody. 485 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: And he he was quite heroic wherever who lived, because 486 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: they saw the evolution of this guy. The great story 487 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: about him was he was the toughest kid in town, 488 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: and no matter what happened in town, he was blamed 489 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: for it. But he could be SA said, I could 490 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: be ten miles out of town, but something half I 491 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: got blamed for it. But every farm kid would when 492 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: it come down and take him on to try to 493 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: test themselves. He never lost the fight until when he 494 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: was about eighteen or nineteen. Professional boxer this is the 495 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: thirties came through looking for some easy change and they 496 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: all said, oh, Red Brokeaw, that's your guy. The guy 497 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: knocked my dad out in the first round. That was 498 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: he ever went back. Can't do it again. Uh. We 499 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: interviewed once the athlete Bo Jackson, and he was remembering 500 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: how everything that happened in his town blamed on him, 501 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: blamed on him, and I said why and he said, well, 502 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: it's because I did it. In my dad's case, it 503 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: was the opposite. He didn't do it, and he was 504 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: too busy, frankly. And the hotel was a sweatshop, you know, 505 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: it was a sweatshop. He never knew which room he 506 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: was gonna be in. Whatever room was empty at night 507 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: is the room that he would take. And it was 508 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: unheeded from the second floor up. So he had a 509 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: big buffalo robe that he slept under. Was brother who 510 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: got the hell out of here after two not too long. 511 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: Once California went the Coast Guard, and then in the 512 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: in the UH and then in the Navy. Was your 513 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: dad baffled by your decision to pursue media because it 514 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: seems like it would have been something that probably didn't 515 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: occur to him. Well, I didn't occur to him, but 516 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: he also knew of my vivid interest in what was 517 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: going on field in part because of my mother. My dad, 518 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: this is a great, great part of his story is 519 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: that my mother was part of an Irish American family 520 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: farming south of town, really quite beautiful, skeptic grade. So 521 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 1: she was in high school in fifteen, he saw her 522 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: no play and he said to a friend of his, 523 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to get a day with her, and the 524 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: guy said, what if you do, then I'll get another day. 525 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: So my dad drove out to the farm. He was 526 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: four or five years older than her at that point, 527 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: and he left the car running lights on the door open. 528 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: He went up, knocked on the door. He never met her, 529 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: and he said, some of us are going to Finally, 530 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: he said, some of us we're going to the movie tomorrow. 531 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: Would you go with me? And she turned around, looked 532 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: at her father, and her father said, he has a 533 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: really good reputation. You know, he's honest, hard working. I 534 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: think he'll be okay, And so they went to the 535 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: movie and then over. My mother wanted to be a journalist. 536 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: A lot of my interests came from her. She was 537 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: always interested in what was going on in the world, 538 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: reading about stuff, and uh she couldn't afford to go 539 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: to college. It was a hundred dollars a year, so 540 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: she was working around town a lot of stuff, and 541 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: they continued to see each other. My dad was often 542 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: racing over the Minnesota to work on a construction job 543 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: of some kind or another. Once he learned how to 544 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: operate the caterpillar in and the construction company that hired 545 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: him originally really tried to stay in touch with him 546 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: because he was such a good hand frankly, and then 547 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: they decided they get married in the height of the depression, 548 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: and my mother and dad had a little tiny trailer. 549 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: They put it behind the thing. They had two goals 550 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,239 Speaker 1: in life, which was to do better ear year and 551 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: say every year at least a thousand hours. I mean, 552 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: that's pretty unusual. No, no credit cards, it was all cash, 553 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. They he had this, as I say, 554 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: this wonderful sense of humor, funny and and and robust. 555 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: And my mother was a great audience for him. She 556 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: would laugh easily and you know, and she was interested 557 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: in books and other things. So it was a great 558 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: Yeana yang. And out of that, I can you briefly 559 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: touched on uh growing up around four Randle Damn And 560 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: for our listeners that don't know, that's like one of 561 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: the biggest damns in North America. And it created like 562 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: Francis Case on the Missouri River in South Dakota, and 563 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest reservoirs in North America. As well. 564 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: It's hard to fathom seeing the completion of that, seeing 565 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: the river change just like overnight. So can you talk 566 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: about that like seeing four ramdas. Remember when we moved 567 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: from Iklu in the far southwestern part of the state 568 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: to this place where they were going to build a 569 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: dam around Lake Antonys and White or in the middle 570 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: of the yank Tony Seuer Reservation. My dad took me 571 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: out and still it stood me on a river bluff 572 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: looking at the wild Missouri below, and he said, there 573 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: at that time, it was going to be the largest 574 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: dam of its kind in the world, and he said, 575 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: they're going to do this. I was in the second 576 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: grade at that point. He had caught on with the 577 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: contractor that was building the highway to the site, and 578 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: he had a really good job because he could do 579 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And then he wanted to go back 580 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: and re enlist in the government again worked with the 581 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: core of engineers because he had points built up with them, 582 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: and the Corps was desperate to have him because he 583 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: could do everything. From that moment on, three years later, 584 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: there was a town of about people. It had the 585 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: most modern shopping center in South Dakota, had unbelievable, state 586 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: of the art, high school, curb and gutter, bowling alley, 587 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: movie theater, hospital, hotel, and and enough room on one 588 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: end of the town for about two trailer houses of 589 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: workers who came in from all America. And it went 590 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: on for ten years seven to build that dam. And 591 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: they were the best years of anyone's life, because they're 592 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: all working class. I said to Marath the other day, 593 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: I remember the second Christmas that we were in fixed down. 594 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: Every kid in town got the chemistry set or a 595 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: new gun, or they got you a new set of 596 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: clothes or whatever, because their families were making real money. 597 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: These are all people who came out of the depression 598 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,240 Speaker 1: and went through the war, and for the first time 599 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: they had spending money first time. My other favorite story 600 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: about it was there was a terrible hail storm one 601 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: day and all the windows in our little house were 602 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: knocked out. So that's woke emilies to come on, we're 603 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: going down to the shop to get this repaired. By 604 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: the time we got the shop, there must have been 605 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: forty five guys in there, many of them white collar engineers, 606 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: and they organized themselves very quickly, and they set up 607 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: this kind of assembly line and they repaired all the 608 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: windows on a Sunday afternoon. That's what they did. You know, 609 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: it was all can do. They didn't wait and say, 610 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: once the insurance gonna come, we've gotta get this done 611 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: and can do thing was phenomenal there when you were 612 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: involved with that big not that you personally, but being 613 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: exposed to that big damn construction project. I think I 614 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: often wonder about people involved in in some of those 615 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: Was there, like, were there any people at that time 616 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: questioning the idea that you would damn up rivers or 617 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: would the conversations were having now about the long term. 618 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: It was just, you know, and it's like you were 619 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: doing God's work that I was. Also they were great 620 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: ops for one thing, and frankly, the Missouri was out 621 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,240 Speaker 1: of control constantly. You know, it flooded every year during 622 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: what they called June Rise. It would come up because 623 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: it was draining this old part of the world we're 624 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: in now, and farming would go down and everything. And 625 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: you know, if you were to go back and do 626 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: it again, you'd probably do it in a more efficient, 627 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, way of preserving what you need to preserve. 628 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: There were eighteen different species of fishing the Missouri at 629 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: that time, and we'd go down and go fishing. We'd 630 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: catch sturgeon for example, you know, and paddlefish, all kinds 631 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: of fish that were going on. And I don't think 632 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: there was a day until it got really bad in 633 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: the wintertime. I wasn't down on the river. Somewhere had 634 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: an enormous rock collection of rare arrowheads and other things 635 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: like that, beautiful pieces of baggot, a church, which is 636 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: a really great chunk of very hard rock if the 637 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: Indians used to make their tools out of. I collected uh. 638 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: And then there were people my age who came from 639 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: these other places who had like minded interests. It was 640 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: a fantastic place to live for a young person. There 641 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: was a one guy town manager was a really great musician, 642 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: so he would create every year a town musical. He 643 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: would write the musical and we'd all go to the 644 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: gym and there would be the musical. And there were 645 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: enough people in there who could play pianos or violins 646 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: or whatever they needed and put it on these shows. 647 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 1: When I went back later and talk to my friends, 648 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: I'd say to him, Jez, he didn't seem to have 649 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: They said, we didn't have anything you know, one of 650 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: my best friends, Jerry Benderson. He said his parents had 651 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: a small trailer house they build are kind of a 652 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: an attachment to it. He slept there in the middle 653 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: witer time in Southcote. He said, I never had it 654 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: into her plumbing. You know, it was the first time. 655 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: This is great for us or my friends who's not 656 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: doing well now. I grew up in North Carolina, and 657 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: he and his mother rode the greyhound bus all the 658 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,479 Speaker 1: way from North Carolina to South Dakota because his dad 659 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: had gone out there this job. But I think his 660 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: dad was trying to leave the family behind and the 661 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 1: mother would not allow actually happen. And that was extraordinarily 662 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 1: good athlete, funny and everything. So there was this mix. 663 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: I had friends from Oklahoma, I knew all about Oklahoma. 664 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: I had friends from Mississippi, so I learned about Ole 665 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: miss really early on, about you know, the loyalty that 666 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: everybody has to that. It was a mixed on white 667 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: anything else in my age group. Uh routed in South Dakota. 668 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: Now you're a worldly man, obviously, um, but I think 669 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: South Dakota has a very underrated and unknown cuisine, and 670 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: so I want to say some names of like some 671 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: local South Dakota food just like and I want to 672 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: I want to get your take on them. See if 673 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: you like them then if you still like them now uh, 674 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: and if you like ever crave them despite having been 675 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 1: all over the world and had all these different foods, 676 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: this is gonna include your tiger meat. The first one 677 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: is chislick. Though first one's chislick. Yeah, Chislake was a 678 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: big excusively the University of South Dakota and driver to Freeman, 679 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: are you are very familiar and connected to and spend 680 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: a Sunday afternoon drinking We were and eating chiselick off 681 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: I guess paper, wasn't it spread it out on the 682 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: paper and heavily salted. As I remember, I don't even 683 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: know what it is. So chislike is cube mutton that 684 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: it can either be eaten loose or on a stick, 685 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,439 Speaker 1: and it's deep fat fried or grilled, and it it's 686 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: like it has a little bit of marbling on there. 687 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: And then there's a Chiselick circle where I grew up, 688 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: which was Freeman Mennow Uh and what would be the 689 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: other one? Maybe Parkston, I think, And that's like where 690 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: Chislick was born. Out of and where you go deep 691 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: fried mutton, deep fried munton depends what you get. Sometimes 692 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: people serve it with toasts. Sometimes it's with salt, heavily salted, 693 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: but yeah, garlic salt is common on them, salt pepper. 694 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: But like, have you ever encountered anything like chislick in 695 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: other places? You would never have? And I took mcgwain 696 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: uh to South Scota go peasant hunting. We I hadn't 697 00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: find it. Michel pick him up there and we went 698 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,479 Speaker 1: to remon uh and I said, we're gonna have watch pretty, 699 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: We're gonna have chisselate. He's what it was like, what's chiselock? 700 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: I said, you're gonna you're gonna find out. You're gonna 701 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: love it. So we did, Yanny, I gave you some 702 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: chislock taking me it was great. Is it like crispy 703 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: on the outside or no, No, it doesn't have that. Yeah, alright. 704 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: So the next one would be tiger meat. Yeah I didn't. Uh. 705 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: I was not breed than that. That was you know 706 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: what tiger meat is though, Yeah, yeah I do, but 707 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: I you know, it was not part of it was 708 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: not part of my households, just raw dear meat. Right, Well, 709 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: it'd be like raw beef and then he's got a 710 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: lot of uh salt, uh onion, green pepper in. It's 711 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: all their spices. God's making me hungry. Uh So the 712 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: next one, how about fleish kikla? No, I don't know 713 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: that one either. We were pretty much meat and potatoes 714 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: people in our family. Well this this was like ground 715 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: meat inside of um, like a pastry that you then 716 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: de fad fried. It's not was that a German dish? 717 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: German dish? I'm German to ase that that part I 718 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:19,439 Speaker 1: remember that. How about nefli soup or dumpling soup. Yeah, 719 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,879 Speaker 1: we did have that, but in our family, my mother worked, 720 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: my father worked, so it was at the end of 721 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,919 Speaker 1: the day it was meating potatoes. You know. It wasn't 722 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: any There was no exotica, as it were. I'm trying 723 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: to think of. I'll tell you a peasant story that 724 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: when I was in college, my roommate was one of 725 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: the two or three best wing shots in the state, 726 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 1: and we would arrange our classes uh in the morning 727 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: from eight until noon. Meredith would pick me up with 728 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,399 Speaker 1: Tom and in those days, we'd road hunt and we'd 729 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 1: drive out for million souths Quo to north along gravel 730 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,839 Speaker 1: roads along the corn fields and shoot peasants. You know, 731 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: we'd see him of the ditch and flasherman shoot him. 732 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: And by the time Thanksgiving came around, must have had 733 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: fifty birds in the locker downtown clean. So we bought 734 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: two kegs of beer. And uh, the way we prepared 735 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: peasants in those days, you threw everything away except the breast. 736 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: You know, nobody ate the legs or anything like that. 737 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: And you cooked him and big cash rolls with was 738 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: it tomatoes cream and washroom cream and mushroom over the top. 739 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: That's how Yeah, that's how we cooked. And then we 740 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: invited all of our faculty members and never worried about 741 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: our grades for the rest of the years. My mom 742 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:57,760 Speaker 1: used to take she would take like just quartered out squirrels. 743 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: So you take the four legs in the back and 744 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: then just dump them in a crock pot and then 745 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,439 Speaker 1: pour cream and mushroom suit in there and then cook 746 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: it so long that the bones would go soft, be 747 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: like a bone bed on the bottom. They just settled 748 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: down to the bottom. You have like an inch of 749 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: miniature squirrel bones, and then floating up above that would 750 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: be this squirrel meat laden squirrel suit and then you 751 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: make toast and put it on toast a shingle, yeah, 752 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: which people also does another popular deer rescume sh out 753 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: of shingle. I should make that for my kids. They 754 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: probably like that. Um. And then another one that this 755 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,839 Speaker 1: is probably a myth, but people that told me that 756 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: the red beer was popular? Eyes are created in Vermilion 757 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: where we went to college. Did you drink a lot 758 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: of red beers down there? You know? It could have? 759 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: Then at the Varsity, which was a hang out, give 760 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: me a red you know, I I think that I 761 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: think that's probably two. It's a beer with tomato juice. 762 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: Do you ever ordered other places and have the bartender 763 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: look at you funny? That wasn't crazy about it? You know? 764 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: I kind of like good clean beer. And uh, I'm 765 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: trying to remember when the occasions it would call for 766 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: me to drink a red That would be when I 767 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: was hungover. What was your Your dad didn't hunt? You mentioned? Um? 768 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: You remember him shooting a deer once? That was it? 769 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: I mean he never shout a guy again. How did you? 770 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: At what ages did you start to become aware of 771 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: and participating in hunting? And fishing. I think twelve. There 772 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: was a neighbor who had a little poor ten and 773 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: pheasant season was a religious holiday in South Kota in 774 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: those days, and I went out with him and he said, look, 775 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: you could use the poor ten. And then I had 776 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: other friends. So a lot of the Southern guys are 777 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: good hunters. For example, we didn't you know, we shot everything. 778 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: We shot squirrels. I didn't have anything to do with 779 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: eating the squirrels. They all had squirrels stew at home, 780 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: for example. That kind of thing. But a pheasant season 781 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 1: and in those days the limit was four and you 782 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: could walk into any farm and say, hey, can we 783 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: hunt a shirt and not to worry about it. Now 784 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: I go back every year and it's just one big, 785 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, organized, very expensive and very well run by 786 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: the way. Uh. Place after another. So it was a 787 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: different time. Did you guys fish in the river? Fished 788 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 1: a lot in the river, and we caught something called 789 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: drum which is a river you know what that is, 790 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: a river bass of some kind that we caught a 791 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,799 Speaker 1: small sturgeon. Uh. And then we caught catfish, and we 792 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: also caught flathead catfishing time or time. So yeah, it 793 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: was it just my friend was not doing well who 794 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: came from North Carolina. We'd be down there at night 795 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,720 Speaker 1: fishing or parkasan up against the you know, the heavy 796 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 1: rock part of the rip rap of the river, throwing 797 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: out these big slugs, you know, a huge nightcrawlers on 798 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: him and catch eight or nine. He's pretty good, not 799 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: that bad eating fish. I used to work for the U. S. 800 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service in Yankton at Gavin's Point fish hatchery. Yeah, 801 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: we don't know. I don't know. You did like a 802 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:35,279 Speaker 1: hatchery gig for four years. I Uh, my dad built 803 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: by the way, I built all those parks around there. 804 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 1: That was his job. I appreciate his work. What were 805 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: you guys hatching? We did everything. Primarily we were the 806 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: pallid sturgeon recovery people, but we also did paddlefish um 807 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: and every spring we would go catch our broodstock paddlefish 808 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: at the White River um up by Chamberlain and with 809 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: enormous uh drift nets um in the White River which 810 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: did be running up to spawn and so in I 811 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 1: think it was, we netted a one hundred forty nine 812 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,240 Speaker 1: pound paddle fish which would actually break the world record. 813 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: That was just broken. But because we were biologists catching 814 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: this thing, it doesn't count, right, and the biologist I 815 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: was with that were certainly certified scale. We took it 816 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: back to the hatchery sponder out, took millions of eggs 817 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,200 Speaker 1: from her, and then released her again. Did you ever 818 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 1: eat any of those eggs in there? Um? One time 819 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: we had uh paddlefish die that somebody took the eggs 820 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: from went home and made some stuff and uh it 821 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: was fine. I don't know uh when the river was 822 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,799 Speaker 1: still they was last damn so they had a pretty 823 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: strong current from there on down there was a guy 824 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,160 Speaker 1: mamber Henry Wolfe, who was a commercial fisherman. He had 825 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: a rig, you know, it was out there and they 826 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:05,480 Speaker 1: caught a couple of a couple of catfish that were 827 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 1: national records at the time, you know, down below Yankton 828 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,759 Speaker 1: and I run when by the time we moved to 829 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 1: Yankton around the waterfront, I rendered boats and sold bait, 830 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: did that kind of thing, took chicks for a ride. 831 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,760 Speaker 1: You you had a bait shop, Yeah, like Johnny Morris 832 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: from baths Pro h. Yeah, where I was going with 833 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: that story. The paddlefish that we caught, that one nine 834 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,360 Speaker 1: pound or seven ft long. The biology sells with said 835 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: that that was there before the damns were put in, 836 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: Like that was an O G paddlefish before before his 837 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,759 Speaker 1: dad finished the damn. Yeah, it's crazy to think about. Well, 838 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,480 Speaker 1: and the uh he's he probably swam around telling everybody 839 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: about what he used to be, like, that's right. I 840 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: could swim from here clear much different, you know. And 841 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: for Randall, you know there was there were all those 842 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,799 Speaker 1: shale cliffs along the river and we peeled them off 843 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: and we found unfortunately think we found a lot of 844 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: fish embedded than that. You know that we thousands years old? 845 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 1: Oh no, kids, fish skeletons. Yeah. Do you remember the 846 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,280 Speaker 1: Channel catfish record in South Dakota that was caught down 847 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: by Vermillion. Yeah, it was turned out to the Elk 848 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 1: point and yanked, but then it took out the scandal bow. 849 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: Then it turned out to be a blue catfish in 850 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: the photos. Right, you remember that story. I remember what 851 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: had happened. I don't remember. I knew those guys and 852 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,760 Speaker 1: Henroy Wolf, the guy that I was talking about from Yankton. 853 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 1: They were his buddies and they would come up in 854 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: the morning and they have coffee and I would sit 855 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: in his little powered boat, you know it wasn't like 856 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: a little tug, and sit and have coffee with him 857 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,280 Speaker 1: in the morning. And he we became very close friends. 858 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: And he said, you gotta go to medical school and 859 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: become a doctor. That's the best profession there was. I said, 860 00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think that would be a journal. What 861 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 1: don't want to tell that area had some great cat 862 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,719 Speaker 1: fishermen from that area. The pictures you see himself. Now, 863 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: you gotta walk through it like you gotta walk through 864 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,839 Speaker 1: the story. So how the how this fish for how 865 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: many ever decades had been misdiagnosed because identified? Can't you 866 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: remember that the area has the three species of catfish, blues, channels, 867 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: and flatheads, And as a channel catfish and a blue 868 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: catfish mature, they tend to look very similar. And it 869 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: gets to a point where the only way to identify 870 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,680 Speaker 1: them with some catfish is to count the anal rays 871 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: on their fin, and they blew, I might have this 872 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: wrong and I can't google it right now. Look like 873 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: which a blue has twenty while a channel have twenty 874 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,960 Speaker 1: two to twenty four. You gotta remember that before all 875 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: those damns went in, the Missouri River was primordial, you know, 876 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,279 Speaker 1: it drained out of the mountain west, came all the 877 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:06,320 Speaker 1: way across North Dakota, I mean Montana, Persta, North Dakota. Uh. 878 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,480 Speaker 1: And there was stuff that people had no idea that 879 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,319 Speaker 1: they were there, you know, the species that they were there, 880 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: they've been living there prettyistoric times, uninterrupted travel. Yeah, from 881 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, the Gulf and the lower end all 882 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,959 Speaker 1: the way until some mountain stream. So the great calt 883 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: cat fisherman from that area, one of them caught a 884 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 1: fifty five pound what he thought was the channel catfish, 885 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 1: and what a biologist agreed was a channel catfish. And 886 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,000 Speaker 1: luckily there's photo evidence that exists showing you can count 887 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: the anal rays. You can see that it's you know, 888 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,319 Speaker 1: rounded or flat where it shouldn't be. Uh. And the 889 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: record was pulled here about two years ago. And I 890 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,760 Speaker 1: wrote about this um when I first started writing for 891 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,399 Speaker 1: the Farm Forum in South Dakota. I said, this record 892 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 1: is the forest. They need to look into it, um. 893 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,439 Speaker 1: Other people I talked about it too. Then a few 894 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: years later they indeed did pull it because it was 895 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,360 Speaker 1: not a channel catfish. And for a channel catfish, it 896 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 1: was at one time the world record I think South 897 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,440 Speaker 1: Carolina ended up having a bigger one. But for a 898 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,799 Speaker 1: channel catfish, this is enormous, like the biggest channel in 899 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: the world. But for a blue it's probably half the 900 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,759 Speaker 1: size of like what the blue cat fish record is. 901 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,440 Speaker 1: So this was indeed just a small blue catfish they 902 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 1: misidentified as a channel and then they reset the state 903 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,680 Speaker 1: record at zero. They said it to zero and where 904 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: I can't even rememb because people were breaking it every day. 905 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, every day. They started like a catfish festival, 906 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,760 Speaker 1: and they really embraced it. And there was two pounds, 907 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,120 Speaker 1: and it was four pounds, and it was ten, then 908 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,360 Speaker 1: it was eleven. Uh you know where. I can't remember 909 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: where it's at right now. No, there was an enormous jump. 910 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: There was like it was like seven to eight and 911 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,520 Speaker 1: then like eight to eleven and eleven and thirteen. Then 912 00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,239 Speaker 1: someone got like thirty two or something and then it's 913 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 1: kind of slowed it down. Now, Tom, I was reading, Um, 914 00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to tell you my source because if 915 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:05,440 Speaker 1: as a life journalist, uh you probably aren't. You're probably 916 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,720 Speaker 1: aware of the fallibility of Wikipedia. However, I was reading 917 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,279 Speaker 1: that's where it's where I going for all my news. 918 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: I was when I was reading in Wikipedia, was that 919 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 1: after Martin Luther King's assassination and then the Kennedy assassination. Uh, 920 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,319 Speaker 1: you got fed up with guns? It didn't want a firearm. 921 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: I was living in California. Gave my gun toy. Yeah, 922 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:37,200 Speaker 1: what was explained that thought? I said, I had, you 923 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,960 Speaker 1: know I had. I didn't give away my uh antique 924 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,680 Speaker 1: guns my father had been given because I wasn't shooting 925 00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: them anyway, but I had, and it's already already in 926 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,800 Speaker 1: a you know, a little twenty two Remington and uh, 927 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,200 Speaker 1: I think probably that was when I had a wing 928 00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: Master full of gauge pump shotgun and I said to 929 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: the camera crews, who wants a gun? I'm not going 930 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: to have him in the house. We had three girls. 931 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, I was just so devastated by all the 932 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,279 Speaker 1: shooting that was going I gave them away and I 933 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,359 Speaker 1: didn't get involved again until I moved to New York. 934 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,080 Speaker 1: And I had some friends who we're making more money 935 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,480 Speaker 1: than the new how to spend so a lot of 936 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,160 Speaker 1: more going out and buying expensive guns, enjoying hunting clubs 937 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,239 Speaker 1: and so on. And one of them said to me 938 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,920 Speaker 1: one day, Hey, you grew up in that part of 939 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,000 Speaker 1: the world. You must have been a shooter, you know. 940 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: We we created these great pheasant lodges, and so you 941 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: want to go, and I said, okay, I go. So 942 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: they got a gun for me, and I, you know, 943 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,520 Speaker 1: quickly came back and at the end of the day 944 00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,879 Speaker 1: they said, God, you gotta do this. And by then 945 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,279 Speaker 1: I could afford a really nice gun, and I got 946 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: involved again, and I started coming out this house quota 947 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:53,080 Speaker 1: every year to hunt pressance with my pals. It's a 948 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: religion in this house quota, frankly, and there was a 949 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,799 Speaker 1: way for us to reconnect again. And that's what I do. 950 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: You know. I have a bird hunter, and until recently 951 00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,000 Speaker 1: in Montana, I could shoot a lot of game birds 952 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: that are not here anymore. We don't know why. So 953 00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,080 Speaker 1: I have disappeared. And then you got you eventually became 954 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 1: a avid fly fisherman, correct, Yeah, that yeah. I remember 955 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,200 Speaker 1: the first time I went fly fishing. I I was 956 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,799 Speaker 1: down at Jackson Hole and I had a cameraman who 957 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,640 Speaker 1: was very good fly fisherman. He said, you ought to 958 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,160 Speaker 1: try this. So we went to town and bought me 959 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,560 Speaker 1: some kind of rudimentary equipment and I went out and 960 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,320 Speaker 1: a reasonably good athlete, and I was catching on pretty quickly. 961 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: But my favorite story about that is there's a bend 962 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: in the Snake where I was working when I was fishing, 963 00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,920 Speaker 1: and there was a boatload of tourist coming by. I 964 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,480 Speaker 1: wanted to show them, so I, you know, do a 965 00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:55,879 Speaker 1: double hall cast and the two tips from my rod 966 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,799 Speaker 1: went flying across the river in front of them. I 967 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:03,839 Speaker 1: just pretended like that's the way it is, That's that's 968 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,120 Speaker 1: the intention. My favorite part of pheasant hunting is just 969 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,920 Speaker 1: the camaraderie and like the buzz of that opening weekend. Uh, 970 00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,320 Speaker 1: but you keep doing it, not even in South Dakota sometimes. 971 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,359 Speaker 1: So what is about pheasant hunting that you like so much? 972 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,960 Speaker 1: Why do It? Was a camarade rail, why don't It 973 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:24,919 Speaker 1: was the uh, you know kind of being with your pals, um, 974 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,360 Speaker 1: wonderful part of the outdoors above the fall on the 975 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:33,760 Speaker 1: great plains. Um. And friends of mine who were hunting quails. 976 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,920 Speaker 1: Anybody get hit one of those fast, I said, come 977 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:40,799 Speaker 1: with me, you know, very fast. Um. And but it 978 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,319 Speaker 1: was it was a religion when I was growing up, 979 00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: and it was a big social thing. And you know 980 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,839 Speaker 1: the other part of my life is that I want 981 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,160 Speaker 1: to be involved whatever was going on, you know, well 982 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,759 Speaker 1: that ek cteresting. Let me try that. Uh. But then 983 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,279 Speaker 1: I moved to and I created a little group there 984 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,760 Speaker 1: and continue to hunt, and then went to Atlanta quick hunting. 985 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 1: When moved to Los Angeles, quite hunting, and then from 986 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,560 Speaker 1: l A Washington and then New York, and then I 987 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,640 Speaker 1: got involved with a club business. I didn't I belong 988 00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: to one, and it's uh, the only reason I stay 989 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,320 Speaker 1: is the handlers everything. I had a fantastic dog, one 990 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,040 Speaker 1: of the best dogs in the world, got by accident. Frankly, 991 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,840 Speaker 1: it was trained, and everybody wanted to be around that dog, 992 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,320 Speaker 1: and that dog kept me hunting. So I'd go up 993 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:33,160 Speaker 1: to this very high end club and the general manager, 994 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360 Speaker 1: the guy who really put it together, would say, field one, 995 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,280 Speaker 1: it's all yours. Don't worry about it, you know, And 996 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 1: so I'd have the best place to hunt and just 997 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,760 Speaker 1: me and my dog, and I love that. Did you 998 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:49,600 Speaker 1: in that era working in media did you need to 999 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:56,120 Speaker 1: Did you ever feel social repercussions um from being a hunter? 1000 00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,000 Speaker 1: Like now, I feel that there are a lot of 1001 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,200 Speaker 1: people who are very I don't want to. I don't 1002 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,200 Speaker 1: want to out them. But I'm always hearing from various 1003 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,960 Speaker 1: celebrities who like to hunt a little bit but don't 1004 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,040 Speaker 1: want anyone to know they hunt. Well. I didn't think 1005 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,920 Speaker 1: about that, Frankly, I was always willing to defend. I said, look, 1006 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 1: I eat when I shoot, you know, and we do limits, 1007 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, and the conservation goes hand in hand with 1008 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,400 Speaker 1: good hunting properties. So I don't have any worry about that. 1009 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,600 Speaker 1: And it's it's always it's for me especially. It's been 1010 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,440 Speaker 1: a great social connection to my friends in South Dakota. 1011 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,920 Speaker 1: You know that we all grew up the same way, 1012 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,080 Speaker 1: and you know, I got to a certain place in 1013 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: life and I could go back to South Dkota to 1014 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 1: be one of the guys. And then they had this 1015 00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:44,200 Speaker 1: fantastic dog called Sage, and everybody wanted to be around Stage. 1016 00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,680 Speaker 1: So I would go out there every year and hunt 1017 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:52,840 Speaker 1: with Stage. No apologies, it's not It's different when you're 1018 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,400 Speaker 1: a sport hunter and you're using a shotgun, or if 1019 00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,800 Speaker 1: even if you're shooting game like deer or whatever, then 1020 00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,440 Speaker 1: the crazies. I mean, there's a great place and uh 1021 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,320 Speaker 1: and Big Timber or the guy kind of white eyed 1022 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,800 Speaker 1: said to me, they want machine guns now so they 1023 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,960 Speaker 1: can shoot kios from the sky. And I said, it's crazy. 1024 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,400 Speaker 1: That's not something he said, I know, but it's not 1025 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: illegal in many instances. That's what rakes me crazy. And 1026 00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:26,480 Speaker 1: people the whole carry business. You know, we were my 1027 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,600 Speaker 1: son in law's mother died and we went back to 1028 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,880 Speaker 1: the small town in Oklahoma where he'd been raised in 1029 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,520 Speaker 1: a big, wonderful place where everybody gathers on Sunday night. 1030 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,480 Speaker 1: Four or five guys walked out with their hip, you know, 1031 00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 1: with her family. What's that all about? You know you 1032 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 1: didn't like it? Well, I I didn't stand up object 1033 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,200 Speaker 1: to it, but I don't know. It's hard to it's 1034 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,520 Speaker 1: hard to object, you know. It's it's just, uh, you know, 1035 00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't necessary. Look, people have a right to harm themselves. 1036 00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:58,200 Speaker 1: You know. I've got guns on the property where you 1037 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,840 Speaker 1: sit right now. Was there secure? You know? I don't. 1038 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,080 Speaker 1: I don't remember under my bed or anything. But I 1039 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,080 Speaker 1: know the whole idea that I'm defined by what I've 1040 01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:11,840 Speaker 1: gone on my hip I find offensive. Did you introduce 1041 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:18,680 Speaker 1: any celebrities to pheasant hunting or guns? No? I was. 1042 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,280 Speaker 1: I think, Uh, you know, one of those guys uh. 1043 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,200 Speaker 1: One of the guy now as the CEO of I 1044 01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: Heart Rate of a big, big broadcaster type. I think 1045 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,240 Speaker 1: he was the one who said to me much about it, 1046 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, and what happened in Wall Street. They said, 1047 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,720 Speaker 1: like a lot of guys made a lot of money 1048 01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,120 Speaker 1: right away, and one out and bought guns. And then 1049 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,480 Speaker 1: these clubs kind of developed around the rim of the city, 1050 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,240 Speaker 1: and a lot of it had to do with old 1051 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Eastern culture. You know, they've grown up, you know, shooting 1052 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,960 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So that's when I got involved. 1053 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,200 Speaker 1: But I have I've kind of stayed in the Middle 1054 01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,160 Speaker 1: I don't go to Europe and hunt uh uh, you know, 1055 01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,080 Speaker 1: in scott Own or anything like that, although arrest I 1056 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,560 Speaker 1: might if I was gonna ask if any if your 1057 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,200 Speaker 1: travels for work ever took you to a place where 1058 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,200 Speaker 1: you had come upon the opportunity to fish or to 1059 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,640 Speaker 1: hunt in a you know, I'm so busy when I'm traveling. 1060 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:18,600 Speaker 1: I'm always aware, uh you know, I was, you know, 1061 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,760 Speaker 1: when I'm in the Middle East. A number of my 1062 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,840 Speaker 1: ich theology friends say, you know, there's a species of 1063 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,720 Speaker 1: of prout. You know, it's in some of those rivers. 1064 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,160 Speaker 1: You I said, you know, look I'm not looking for fishing. 1065 01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm looking for sanctuary when I'm over there, you know, 1066 01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not gonna go down and wade into 1067 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,800 Speaker 1: the river. There was a famous story about Saddan Hussein 1068 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,480 Speaker 1: since after the after he came down, I went to 1069 01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:46,760 Speaker 1: a the third division. I had been following a kid. 1070 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,600 Speaker 1: He was a border man, and we've been following from 1071 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:54,280 Speaker 1: basic training through and following him over there. Uh had 1072 01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,920 Speaker 1: a really tough war. Anyhow, he was at the base 1073 01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,400 Speaker 1: of the dam and they were protecting the damn hydro 1074 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:06,880 Speaker 1: electric and UH. One guy they befriended who was a local, 1075 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,320 Speaker 1: and he told them that Saddam had a big palace. 1076 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,360 Speaker 1: I went to see the palace. It was a huge palace. 1077 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,560 Speaker 1: By then the army taking over and they were using 1078 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:20,920 Speaker 1: it as a headquarters. And they said, some locals before 1079 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,360 Speaker 1: the war came up here and they were fishing at 1080 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,120 Speaker 1: the base of the damn because it was so rich. 1081 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,920 Speaker 1: And then one day out of the palace, helicopter rises, 1082 01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,840 Speaker 1: comes up, blows the hell out of the guys, and 1083 01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,360 Speaker 1: nobody went back to fish again. You know that's how 1084 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:43,600 Speaker 1: operators Seriously, seriously, huh, seriously, you are you had a 1085 01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,880 Speaker 1: hard time getting started in college, Like you kind of 1086 01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,200 Speaker 1: bombed out at a couple of schools. Yeah, I did. 1087 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,280 Speaker 1: And then you're and then your your wife to be shamed. 1088 01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:58,680 Speaker 1: You pulled the Jane hard. I still don't know what 1089 01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: happened to me. You know, I came out of high school. 1090 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,040 Speaker 1: This is I'm honest. But I was a real wizkd 1091 01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, his boy state governor. And I was a jock, 1092 01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,920 Speaker 1: and you know, and I was president of my class, 1093 01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,919 Speaker 1: and I was getting all these honors. I was being 1094 01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:15,200 Speaker 1: recruited by schools I once the University of Iowa and 1095 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,720 Speaker 1: uh University. I was very good school, a lot of 1096 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:24,000 Speaker 1: fantastic co eds from the north shore of Chicago who 1097 01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,040 Speaker 1: proved to be a bit distraction to me. Uh. And 1098 01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,440 Speaker 1: I was interested in not going to class but going 1099 01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,400 Speaker 1: to other things. I remember going they have something called 1100 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,800 Speaker 1: the Old Capital. It was a lecture place, and I'd 1101 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,400 Speaker 1: go over there and hear these anxotic lectures by guys 1102 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,160 Speaker 1: talking about theology and the nuclear age, that kind of thing. 1103 01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,480 Speaker 1: But going to the classes that I should have been 1104 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,960 Speaker 1: going to, I wasn't doing as much. And uh, I 1105 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,880 Speaker 1: guess I just thought I could get along what had 1106 01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,760 Speaker 1: carried me through before. I had not always been a 1107 01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,280 Speaker 1: good student, but I just wasn't paying attention. And I 1108 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,280 Speaker 1: most of my friends were a little bit older, uh 1109 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,640 Speaker 1: someone were football players, and so I didn't funk out, 1110 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,680 Speaker 1: but I came close. So at the end of the year, 1111 01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,840 Speaker 1: I was so kind of at odds with myself. I 1112 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,800 Speaker 1: thought I'd better go back get my act together, and 1113 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:13,960 Speaker 1: I went to the South enrolled at the University of 1114 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,560 Speaker 1: South Dakota. Continued on that same plane, and at the 1115 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,360 Speaker 1: end of that year, a fabulous professor they're ahead of 1116 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,520 Speaker 1: the political science department, and there was a small group 1117 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,000 Speaker 1: of us who were political science majors called me over 1118 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,320 Speaker 1: to his house for dinner and he said, get out 1119 01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,440 Speaker 1: of here, get it out of your assistant. Come back, 1120 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,479 Speaker 1: but you could do yourself some good, your family some good. 1121 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,280 Speaker 1: Get out of here, just whatever it takes. I don't 1122 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,440 Speaker 1: want to see you next year. I thought that was 1123 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,360 Speaker 1: a ticket to go do whatever the hell I wanted 1124 01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,320 Speaker 1: to do. And because I had a certain skill set 1125 01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,080 Speaker 1: as a you know, rad you were just chocking other things. 1126 01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,760 Speaker 1: I got jobs and then I got a job in 1127 01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:54,920 Speaker 1: Sioux City, Iowa, which is sixty miles away from the 1128 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:59,280 Speaker 1: University of South Dkota as a uh A booth announcer, 1129 01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:01,840 Speaker 1: weekend weather man, and kind of an old purpose guy 1130 01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,520 Speaker 1: for seventy five bucks a week. And they had a 1131 01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:09,720 Speaker 1: wonderful news director who would come from Northwestern and he 1132 01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,240 Speaker 1: was destined to do well, and he ended up being 1133 01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,960 Speaker 1: a CBS correspondent, and he became a good friend, and 1134 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,400 Speaker 1: he became a mentor, and he said, Tom, this is 1135 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:19,960 Speaker 1: not the way for you. You've got to get your 1136 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: act together. So I went back to the university, and Uh, 1137 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:30,000 Speaker 1: I called Meredith, my friend from high school, UH, who 1138 01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,800 Speaker 1: was kind of all everything. She was a big scholastic 1139 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,960 Speaker 1: leader at Universe, she had been in South Dakota and 1140 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:40,200 Speaker 1: all these other things. She was so highly regarded with 1141 01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,480 Speaker 1: good reason. And I said, yeah, I'm gonna be in town. 1142 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,560 Speaker 1: Let's get together. She wrote me the most dismissive note 1143 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,640 Speaker 1: you can possibly imagine. I'm not interested. I don't want 1144 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,000 Speaker 1: to see you again. Your mother doesn't know what to 1145 01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,280 Speaker 1: do with you. She's terribly disappointed. Uh. You know, I 1146 01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,400 Speaker 1: don't know what's going on. So I took that letter 1147 01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,120 Speaker 1: to a very close friend of ours who later and I, 1148 01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, because I stayed in touch with the intellectual circles, 1149 01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,920 Speaker 1: and Bob became one of the leading Soviet authorities in America. 1150 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,160 Speaker 1: Still at it, Bob wig Bold, and I said, can 1151 01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,640 Speaker 1: you probablylieve that merth would? And he said, yeah, I 1152 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,800 Speaker 1: can't believe it. We don't know what's going on with you. 1153 01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:19,919 Speaker 1: A wake up call. So I went back. I got 1154 01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,160 Speaker 1: in the carpool and I started righting. You know, I 1155 01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,280 Speaker 1: get all fourk at midnight, I get up at five, 1156 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,600 Speaker 1: go to the university, be in classical noon, and go 1157 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,240 Speaker 1: back and work. But about I don't know. Five months 1158 01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:32,880 Speaker 1: into that, I was in the library one day and 1159 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,360 Speaker 1: Meredith came home and said I went too far, And 1160 01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:40,000 Speaker 1: I said, no, you didn't. I had it coming. I 1161 01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:43,280 Speaker 1: went from there and fifty eight years later, what's the 1162 01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:50,120 Speaker 1: what's the key to fifty eight years of marriage? Oh? Easy? 1163 01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,120 Speaker 1: Key in my case is that she can do everything. 1164 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean, what you see around here her. She's an 1165 01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 1: expert bridge player. She's a great came out of here 1166 01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,080 Speaker 1: when I wanted by the ranch. She's always the worst 1167 01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,960 Speaker 1: idea ever had was in two years she was one 1168 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,440 Speaker 1: of the leading sliders writers in Montana. She you know, 1169 01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,160 Speaker 1: she could just do whatever and and outbreak a sweat 1170 01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,320 Speaker 1: and uh and the in terms of the public profile 1171 01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,200 Speaker 1: which comes with my life not interesting. You know, she 1172 01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:21,880 Speaker 1: has everybody is, she didn't have any enemies. Everybody's an admirer. 1173 01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Bit of rolls off from her. It's a great story 1174 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,560 Speaker 1: about that I wrote about when we were young and 1175 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:36,320 Speaker 1: in California. Uh, we suddenly got pulled into the old 1176 01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,000 Speaker 1: Hollywood crowd because it would be big benefits and that 1177 01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:41,640 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and I would be there as an 1178 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,520 Speaker 1: NBC guy. And then they saw Meredith and was just 1179 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,440 Speaker 1: so dropped dead beautiful and easy and charming and everything 1180 01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,520 Speaker 1: that we suddenly that kind of pulled into that. And 1181 01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,960 Speaker 1: my favorite story is that uh rosal and Russell came 1182 01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,760 Speaker 1: up to me at a party and said, you know 1183 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:02,800 Speaker 1: who I am? Much broke on Of course I do. 1184 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,920 Speaker 1: And she said, I hear that beautiful young woman over there. 1185 01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,840 Speaker 1: Your wife, I said. She She said, we're having a 1186 01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:13,840 Speaker 1: wedding anniversary Freddie and I her husband, very Brasada. We 1187 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,400 Speaker 1: don't have any young people. Would you come? Can you imagine? 1188 01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm doing the eleven o'clock News. 1189 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,400 Speaker 1: Were four years out of South Dakota at that point, 1190 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,160 Speaker 1: five years out of South Dakota. I said, yeah. She 1191 01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,400 Speaker 1: said you have a tuxedo and I said no, she's 1192 01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,960 Speaker 1: a rent one, okay, and so and she said, I'll 1193 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,680 Speaker 1: send you a telegram. That's how they did things. So 1194 01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,320 Speaker 1: we got to this party. We're the only ones. We 1195 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,360 Speaker 1: don't know. In a way it was, you know, it 1196 01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,960 Speaker 1: was Jack Lemon and Kirk Douglas and Ronald Reagan, who 1197 01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,880 Speaker 1: had just been elected governor of California, who I knew 1198 01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,240 Speaker 1: a little bit because that was covering him. But it 1199 01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:53,760 Speaker 1: was like that. It was filled both the Triple A stars. 1200 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:57,600 Speaker 1: So rons Russell says, okay, we're gonna have dancing, that 1201 01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,080 Speaker 1: real old fashioned stuff. And she went by went and 1202 01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:03,840 Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out why. And she had hats caps 1203 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:05,840 Speaker 1: for the guys and scars for the women. You had 1204 01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,240 Speaker 1: to match the cap on the scarpet. That was your 1205 01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:10,400 Speaker 1: dancing partner. And I woke up and Marith has been 1206 01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:14,120 Speaker 1: led onto the dance floor by Ronald Reagan and he, 1207 01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, he was a huge star at the time. 1208 01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,320 Speaker 1: He's just been elected and merit's a very good dancer 1209 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:23,080 Speaker 1: and Dutch, we like to him with outstanding the answer 1210 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:27,240 Speaker 1: within three beats. Everybody stands back and watches My wife 1211 01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:32,840 Speaker 1: at that point, twenty eight years old, most pointy she 1212 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,960 Speaker 1: ever spent on address was ninety four hours for that party, 1213 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,639 Speaker 1: and they just tear up the floor and they're having 1214 01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,880 Speaker 1: the best time out there. So now the dance ends, 1215 01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,960 Speaker 1: Mary starts back and Reagan says, oh, no, we're gonna 1216 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:50,519 Speaker 1: do this again. Two beats into the dance, Nancy, Reagan says, Ronnie, 1217 01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,439 Speaker 1: there's a question I can't answer, and pulls them away 1218 01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,400 Speaker 1: back to their table. So it's one of our favorite 1219 01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,679 Speaker 1: stories that we became very very close to Nancy before 1220 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,599 Speaker 1: the end of everything. So, you know, we've just had 1221 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:06,360 Speaker 1: this right place, right time, magical life. Add huge part 1222 01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,720 Speaker 1: of it for me is that arrasses there, you know, 1223 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,040 Speaker 1: kind of even keel, you know, winning for everybody. So 1224 01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,400 Speaker 1: we we've been for two kids from the ancient high 1225 01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,360 Speaker 1: school worked out pretty well. When you were doing those 1226 01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:28,240 Speaker 1: early jobs you mentioned like disc jockeying and doing weekend news. Uh, 1227 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:33,000 Speaker 1: what was it that you were doing well enough to 1228 01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:36,000 Speaker 1: keep it advancing along? Like when you look back now, 1229 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:40,600 Speaker 1: you know, like what were the characteristics or traits? Was 1230 01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,120 Speaker 1: it just work? Is there sort of a talent and 1231 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,920 Speaker 1: is there a native talent. Well, I don't know. People 1232 01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,760 Speaker 1: determined that I was interested what I was doing, and 1233 01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,800 Speaker 1: I was serious about journalism and you know, and I 1234 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,160 Speaker 1: had a certain cosmetics thing where I could get on 1235 01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,320 Speaker 1: television and you know, and I was from the time 1236 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,080 Speaker 1: I remember or anybody could remember about me, I was 1237 01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,800 Speaker 1: at ease talking and doing things. So I was not 1238 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,720 Speaker 1: a bad performer, but I was really interested in the 1239 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,720 Speaker 1: substance of it. So I went from Sioux City to 1240 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,760 Speaker 1: Omahaw for two uh two years in Omahaw doing all 1241 01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,120 Speaker 1: kinds of things here, morning, noon, tonight, and bang, I 1242 01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,360 Speaker 1: get picked up by the biggest station in the south 1243 01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,880 Speaker 1: of Atlanta's origin the height of the civil rights movement. 1244 01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,280 Speaker 1: The next thing I know, I'm covering Dr King and 1245 01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,479 Speaker 1: everybody down there and feeding the stuff to NBC. Eight 1246 01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,880 Speaker 1: months after I'm in Atlanta, NBC comes, we want you 1247 01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:32,599 Speaker 1: to come to California, go to work for us. So 1248 01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,640 Speaker 1: it was bang, bang, bang. I get to California in 1249 01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:37,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty six. The person thing I did to 1250 01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,320 Speaker 1: start covering Ronald Reagan, who everybody said that he can't win. 1251 01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:42,200 Speaker 1: And I got to know the whole team and I 1252 01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,800 Speaker 1: was on the air on election night and doing all 1253 01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: of this stuff. And then California in those days especially, 1254 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,759 Speaker 1: and I think it's still true, they don't ask about 1255 01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,920 Speaker 1: your pedigree. Can you do the job or not. We 1256 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,120 Speaker 1: had a great life out there. The closest friends that 1257 01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,559 Speaker 1: we have for this day are people our age who 1258 01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:04,120 Speaker 1: came to at the same time. Warren Buffett's Irreplaceable Warrior, 1259 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,360 Speaker 1: one of the greatest layers in America, came from a 1260 01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:08,639 Speaker 1: small town in Io. At the same time we were there. 1261 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,639 Speaker 1: There were other couples like that. California was on the rise. 1262 01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:16,040 Speaker 1: Everything was affordable. We bought a wonderful house up in 1263 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:21,599 Speaker 1: the valley, up in the hills, five hundred dollars, you know, 1264 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,120 Speaker 1: and we three couples would go out for dinner would 1265 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:25,880 Speaker 1: be a hundred It would not be a hundred bucks 1266 01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,639 Speaker 1: for three couples, you know, some of the best restaurants 1267 01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,080 Speaker 1: of town. And then I was doing a lot of 1268 01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,320 Speaker 1: work for a v C. And then, you know, we 1269 01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:35,600 Speaker 1: had a really good life there, and Marath had a 1270 01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:38,320 Speaker 1: good life as she was a linguistic And then in 1271 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,200 Speaker 1: d C came and said time to move. We've got 1272 01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:45,040 Speaker 1: to come back east. Chancellor had been trying to get 1273 01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:46,519 Speaker 1: me to do I said, yeah, why do I wanted 1274 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,040 Speaker 1: to that? So you got it? So I went back. 1275 01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,800 Speaker 1: I became the White House chorus about it, and the 1276 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:55,040 Speaker 1: timing again was in Brocose favor. I caught Watergate. Yeah 1277 01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,280 Speaker 1: is it? Uh? I also read that it's rumored. I 1278 01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,200 Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever knowledge that, or maybe it 1279 01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,880 Speaker 1: came from you that you were offered but turned down, 1280 01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,719 Speaker 1: an opportunity to be Nixon's press secretary. It was true, 1281 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,360 Speaker 1: the whole career would have went in a way different direction. No, 1282 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,519 Speaker 1: there was no way I was gonna do so. You 1283 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,960 Speaker 1: didn't even entertain the idea. You not even entertain it. 1284 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,840 Speaker 1: I almost threw up when they made the offer. Yeah, 1285 01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,800 Speaker 1: there's no one more reviled than the press secretary during 1286 01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,400 Speaker 1: a crisis. And that's not what I wanted to do. 1287 01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:25,000 Speaker 1: I want to be a journalist. I didn't want to 1288 01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:26,840 Speaker 1: be on the other side. I want to do what 1289 01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,439 Speaker 1: I was doing. And I ended up having a good 1290 01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:34,240 Speaker 1: Bob Haldoman, who has made the offer and was persistent. Finally, 1291 01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,519 Speaker 1: you know, he went to jail and Watergates over onwards. 1292 01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,000 Speaker 1: I'm uh in New York doing a kind of retrospect 1293 01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,000 Speaker 1: upon Watergate, and I guess this big bear hunt from 1294 01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:45,439 Speaker 1: behind me and I turned around. It's Bob haul him 1295 01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:47,120 Speaker 1: and he said, hey, Tom, you know how many times 1296 01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:48,439 Speaker 1: I've watched you, And so I got I could have 1297 01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:56,800 Speaker 1: sent him to jail. Uh. So you remained friendly with 1298 01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,760 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan? Yeah, like you. You speak well of him now, 1299 01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,560 Speaker 1: mostly Nancy, but also Reagan. I didn't think he was 1300 01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:07,519 Speaker 1: up to the job when he got the job. I was. 1301 01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,439 Speaker 1: I was worried about it. I thought he was successful 1302 01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,720 Speaker 1: in California because he had a strong state legislation. He 1303 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,240 Speaker 1: learned how to work with him, and then I learned 1304 01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:20,120 Speaker 1: as president because became very very close to Jim Baker, 1305 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,640 Speaker 1: his chief of staff, who said he knew what he 1306 01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,400 Speaker 1: knew and that's where he spent his time and what 1307 01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,920 Speaker 1: he didn't know. He didn't want to go there. He 1308 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,559 Speaker 1: didn't want to fake it. So he said we'd have 1309 01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,200 Speaker 1: these staff meetings at seven o'clock in the morning. Baker 1310 01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,400 Speaker 1: would run him it, and then the President would show 1311 01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:39,120 Speaker 1: up at eight and Baker would say, Mr President, this 1312 01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:41,479 Speaker 1: is what we think you ought to do today, and 1313 01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,559 Speaker 1: this is the area that we ought to concentrate on 1314 01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,599 Speaker 1: and he'd say, okay, Jim, but I don't like that part. 1315 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,759 Speaker 1: And he said, well he didn't like something, he really 1316 01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,000 Speaker 1: had strong reason for not liking it. He always knew 1317 01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:54,760 Speaker 1: who he was, so I came to admire him. You know, 1318 01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,160 Speaker 1: we were different, you know a lot of philosophical things. 1319 01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,360 Speaker 1: I think he was still you know, in the thirties 1320 01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,639 Speaker 1: when it came to race, for example, he didn't quite 1321 01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:06,320 Speaker 1: understand how that was going. But I thought he was 1322 01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:09,759 Speaker 1: very important in standing up to the Russians and making 1323 01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,360 Speaker 1: a stand about the Berlin Wall, and he made the 1324 01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:17,400 Speaker 1: country optimistic, you know, that they came to believe that 1325 01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:19,880 Speaker 1: they could do what they needed to do and wanted 1326 01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,920 Speaker 1: to do it. He had that kind of cheerfulness about him, 1327 01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,599 Speaker 1: and he didn't things rolled off his back. You know. 1328 01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:29,880 Speaker 1: He talked Sam Donaldson. I've talked about this a lot. 1329 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:32,800 Speaker 1: Sam came. We have the same feeling. We were the 1330 01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:38,599 Speaker 1: two that were invited to Nancy's uh to Nancy's funeral, 1331 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,840 Speaker 1: and I spoke and Sam was there as well, the 1332 01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,559 Speaker 1: only two correspondents. Because we dealt with him in a 1333 01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,040 Speaker 1: way that we tried to see what he was up to, 1334 01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,080 Speaker 1: and we had an appreciation what he got right and 1335 01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:52,680 Speaker 1: also when he got wrong, we pulled the chain and 1336 01:15:52,720 --> 01:16:06,680 Speaker 1: he could handle it. Now we look at news and 1337 01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:11,160 Speaker 1: it's um and and the people who bring us news, 1338 01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:17,120 Speaker 1: and I think the idea of of impartiality, bipartisanship, we're 1339 01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:19,080 Speaker 1: almost to the point where people don't even give it 1340 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:24,160 Speaker 1: lip service anymore. Uh. But you were of the era 1341 01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:31,599 Speaker 1: when you at least had to pretend how uh how 1342 01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,960 Speaker 1: much is you because looking at your the people you've known, 1343 01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,280 Speaker 1: and the way you speak about the way you just 1344 01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,519 Speaker 1: spoke about Reagan, for instance, the fact you may have 1345 01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:41,599 Speaker 1: you know that someone at the NICK within the Nixon 1346 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:47,360 Speaker 1: administration looked at you, um that you received a great 1347 01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:51,360 Speaker 1: award under Obama, like I look at the resume and 1348 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,760 Speaker 1: be like, oh, that must be like a fairly bipartisan, 1349 01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:59,720 Speaker 1: open minded person. But did you find it because of 1350 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:03,639 Speaker 1: your career you had the foster that and bury your 1351 01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:08,400 Speaker 1: impulses and instincts in order to maintain this aura of 1352 01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,880 Speaker 1: impartiality or did you naturally feel that way? No? I 1353 01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:15,080 Speaker 1: think it's the role of a journalist, you know, I had, 1354 01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,640 Speaker 1: as I've often said to people, have very strong ideological, 1355 01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,240 Speaker 1: philosophical feelings, great interest in a lot of things that 1356 01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,160 Speaker 1: don't always match the people that I'm covering. But that's 1357 01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:26,719 Speaker 1: not My job is not to impose on my audience. 1358 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,800 Speaker 1: What I believe my job is to find out what 1359 01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,320 Speaker 1: the president or a decision maker is about and how 1360 01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,439 Speaker 1: they arrived at that conclusion, whether it holds water or 1361 01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:39,240 Speaker 1: doesn't hold water, and to be fair about it. And 1362 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,200 Speaker 1: the thing that I've had the greatest pride, and I 1363 01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:46,200 Speaker 1: suppose as a journalist is that over the years, people 1364 01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:48,160 Speaker 1: have come up to me and say, you know, broke off. 1365 01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,120 Speaker 1: I don't agree with a lot about yours saying, but 1366 01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,960 Speaker 1: I always believe that you have integrity. You know that 1367 01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,200 Speaker 1: you've arrived at this honestly, and that's what counts. And 1368 01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:02,439 Speaker 1: I'm also I don't go in looking for a fight. 1369 01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:04,360 Speaker 1: I go on trying to find out what does the 1370 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,080 Speaker 1: public need to know here? What's important to him? And 1371 01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:09,160 Speaker 1: part of that was I kept my parents in mind. 1372 01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:10,920 Speaker 1: I kept Main Street in mind because of how I 1373 01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:13,640 Speaker 1: had grown up. What do they need to know? You know, 1374 01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,559 Speaker 1: wherever I was in the world, I think, is this 1375 01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:19,320 Speaker 1: gonna play in Yankton? You know? Uh? I remember looking 1376 01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,760 Speaker 1: at rivers in the Middle East, and I think it 1377 01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,000 Speaker 1: kind of looks a little bit like the Missouri Uh 1378 01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:28,519 Speaker 1: So I carried that with me wherever I went. During 1379 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,800 Speaker 1: the height of nightly news, there was a big three 1380 01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:36,200 Speaker 1: like you, Dan Rather and Jens Peter Jennings. What was 1381 01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:38,880 Speaker 1: your relationship like with those guys. It was a competitive 1382 01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,800 Speaker 1: or friendly or no relationship at all. It was a relationship, 1383 01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:47,760 Speaker 1: and we actually we were very competitive, very competitive, and 1384 01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,080 Speaker 1: we got angry with each other from time to time. 1385 01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,360 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, when I left 1386 01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,439 Speaker 1: nightly early because I wanted to have a life beyond 1387 01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:58,479 Speaker 1: just being on the air at six thirty every night, 1388 01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,559 Speaker 1: it was stunned a lot of people. Peter and Dan 1389 01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:05,479 Speaker 1: spoke at a testimonial to me, and Peter kind of 1390 01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,799 Speaker 1: nailed it. He came out and he said, people often 1391 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,320 Speaker 1: ask I have to make sure I get this right. 1392 01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:18,240 Speaker 1: People often ask do you like each other? And he 1393 01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:22,000 Speaker 1: would say not every day, but we all have respect 1394 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:24,840 Speaker 1: for each other because we're committed journalists. At the end 1395 01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,680 Speaker 1: of the day, all three of us admire what the 1396 01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,599 Speaker 1: other one is doing, and we've compared it, competed all 1397 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:35,240 Speaker 1: over the world, and our social relationship was Peter and 1398 01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:38,120 Speaker 1: I gave Dan a dinner at our house. For example, 1399 01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,599 Speaker 1: when he got in that jam, you know about whether 1400 01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,280 Speaker 1: he reported on Bush. We had a dinner for him 1401 01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:47,439 Speaker 1: because his life was, you know, disappearence before his eyes. 1402 01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:49,559 Speaker 1: And we and we put together some of his friends 1403 01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,720 Speaker 1: and Peter and I gave him a dinner and said, Dan, 1404 01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,360 Speaker 1: there is life after all of this, after all, and 1405 01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:56,840 Speaker 1: we all have to be aware of that. And I 1406 01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:59,320 Speaker 1: was heartbroken when Peter got sick and died as early 1407 01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:03,840 Speaker 1: as he did. Uh. I just made the decision to 1408 01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,960 Speaker 1: leave about a year before that, and he came to me, 1409 01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,320 Speaker 1: but he called everybody, Lad, Glad, what are you thinking? 1410 01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:14,120 Speaker 1: I said, Peter, I want another life. I mean, it's 1411 01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:16,040 Speaker 1: hard for me to improve of what I've been able 1412 01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:19,839 Speaker 1: to do. The last big story I Coverad was nine eleven. 1413 01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:23,599 Speaker 1: And uh, I want to go to South Kota when 1414 01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,400 Speaker 1: the pheasant hunting is going on. I want to be 1415 01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:28,559 Speaker 1: able to spend more time in Montana. I want to 1416 01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,960 Speaker 1: travel the places, not to be there on assignment, but 1417 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,479 Speaker 1: just because I want to be there. So I want 1418 01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:38,080 Speaker 1: a life. And you know, you have to be careful 1419 01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:46,080 Speaker 1: about in these jobs. That's the public actulation. The attention 1420 01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:49,920 Speaker 1: that you get doesn't become toxic, and I was determined 1421 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,760 Speaker 1: not to have it become toxic. I wanted to go 1422 01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,000 Speaker 1: out on my terms. What does it look like when 1423 01:20:56,000 --> 01:21:01,200 Speaker 1: it's toxic. Well, when it's toxic is that you get 1424 01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:03,719 Speaker 1: to believe all the attention that you're getting is because 1425 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,479 Speaker 1: you're a wonderful person. That's when it's toxic. You know, 1426 01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:10,920 Speaker 1: all the attention you're getting often is because they think 1427 01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,040 Speaker 1: you can do something for them, or they want to 1428 01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:16,120 Speaker 1: kind of rub shoulders with you. Uh. That that's when 1429 01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,320 Speaker 1: it becomes toxic. Thank god I had Marathon my side 1430 01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:21,840 Speaker 1: because I never got out of control and she was 1431 01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:28,519 Speaker 1: always totally you know, uh, totally and sink with how 1432 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,080 Speaker 1: life should be led. I remember when I was doing 1433 01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:33,800 Speaker 1: the Today's Show and things were got very difficult en VC. 1434 01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,479 Speaker 1: He was a mess at one point, and I didn't 1435 01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,439 Speaker 1: know whether or not my career was going to go on. 1436 01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:41,800 Speaker 1: And I came on one night and I was quite 1437 01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,720 Speaker 1: ancient vers a toime. We have each other, We have 1438 01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,439 Speaker 1: these three fabulous girls. What are we worried about? Look 1439 01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:51,200 Speaker 1: at us, but we've come from the rank in South 1440 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,599 Speaker 1: Dakota to where we are. You'll always have a job. 1441 01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:58,720 Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. You need to hear that. A 1442 01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:04,920 Speaker 1: friend of mine recently sold his business and he described 1443 01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,800 Speaker 1: himself as being in the process of crawling into a 1444 01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:12,960 Speaker 1: deep dark hole. Um, wilfully right. He just wanted to 1445 01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:16,719 Speaker 1: take just to check out. Did you imagine like looking 1446 01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:21,120 Speaker 1: where you now live on the edge of a creek, 1447 01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:28,360 Speaker 1: surrounded by big cotton woods. Um, very secluded all along? 1448 01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:33,040 Speaker 1: Did you think when I'm done, I will go and 1449 01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:39,880 Speaker 1: live on a dirt road and fish. No. I wanted 1450 01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:41,400 Speaker 1: to be part of my life. I didn't want to 1451 01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,800 Speaker 1: give up on everything I told. Kind of active now, 1452 01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:48,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in touch with people and then you 1453 01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:52,320 Speaker 1: see every day. Yeah, email, I was just I'm with Andrew. 1454 01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:56,040 Speaker 1: Uh the air was her when uh the President was 1455 01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,160 Speaker 1: going to Mount Rushmore because I wanted to tell the 1456 01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:02,519 Speaker 1: Lakota store and I said to put me on I've 1457 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,880 Speaker 1: got something to say. And I got an enormous reaction 1458 01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,720 Speaker 1: because almost no one knew that the Black Hills were 1459 01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:12,240 Speaker 1: really seated to the Lakota people in the eighteen sixty 1460 01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,160 Speaker 1: and Custer rode in and broad gold miners, and they 1461 01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:18,080 Speaker 1: ran the tribes out and sent them out to the 1462 01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:22,880 Speaker 1: reservations and then in nineteen eighty U. S. Supreme Court 1463 01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:26,800 Speaker 1: rule that was illegal and they have just compensation coming. 1464 01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,479 Speaker 1: So they started to fund and the Indians will not 1465 01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:31,920 Speaker 1: accept that. They want the land, they don't want the money. 1466 01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,519 Speaker 1: And they've got more than a billion dollars rightly and 1467 01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,800 Speaker 1: funds that have been put away for them. And I 1468 01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:40,920 Speaker 1: told that story on the air. I said, this is 1469 01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:42,800 Speaker 1: what you need to know about where we are now. 1470 01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:47,519 Speaker 1: A huge reaction. Almost no one knew about that growing 1471 01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:51,160 Speaker 1: up in Igloon picks Downy Action. You spent like your 1472 01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:56,080 Speaker 1: whole childhood in reservations around the edge of reservations. You 1473 01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:58,439 Speaker 1: said you were very exposed to those people in that culture. 1474 01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:01,120 Speaker 1: Like did you feel and obligate in your career to 1475 01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:06,240 Speaker 1: cover that more, cover differently, educate people on reservations. You know, 1476 01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:07,960 Speaker 1: I have a lot. I've done a lot. One of 1477 01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,920 Speaker 1: the Today Show was doing every state one year, uh, 1478 01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:13,800 Speaker 1: and they were doing kind of on the Chief. I said, 1479 01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. If you want me 1480 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:16,479 Speaker 1: to do it, I won't do it on the Chief. 1481 01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to South Dakota. And I got my friend 1482 01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:23,320 Speaker 1: Gerald one Feather to come to be my representative of 1483 01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:26,680 Speaker 1: the Lakota tribe and talked about the history of them. 1484 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,719 Speaker 1: I went back and broke the big magazine piece about 1485 01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:33,400 Speaker 1: growing up among the tribes in South Dquota for the 1486 01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:39,920 Speaker 1: Los Angeles Times m when we were doing the Olympics 1487 01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:45,080 Speaker 1: and UH Australia. I went back U fund Billy Mills, 1488 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,120 Speaker 1: who was you know, the great long distance runner who 1489 01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:51,840 Speaker 1: was a Ladcota Sue who has a foundation now I 1490 01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:53,680 Speaker 1: think in Colorado. And he came up and I did 1491 01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:57,479 Speaker 1: a story about him. But the story by and largest 1492 01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,519 Speaker 1: heartbreaking bright. I we Marath. I actively support a little 1493 01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:06,479 Speaker 1: junior college on the on the Pine Ridge, whereas one 1494 01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:09,080 Speaker 1: of my friends, Jerry One Feather, who was a classmate 1495 01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,759 Speaker 1: of mine at the University of South Dakota, a serious 1496 01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:15,080 Speaker 1: political science student. He was in the library when I 1497 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:17,120 Speaker 1: was at the bar. I mean that tells you the difference. 1498 01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:21,120 Speaker 1: And we put a scholarship in his name there and 1499 01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:23,439 Speaker 1: they've gotten they've used it to get a lot of 1500 01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,400 Speaker 1: other contributions. We lost youry a few years ago, but 1501 01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:28,240 Speaker 1: if you'll permit me, I will tell one quick story 1502 01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:30,160 Speaker 1: about it. I hadn't seen him in a number of years, 1503 01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:35,320 Speaker 1: and he was a really serious, typical kind of Sue 1504 01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:38,880 Speaker 1: warrior type, and he's continued. He got a masters degree 1505 01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,479 Speaker 1: in political science. So our eldest daughter it's a position. 1506 01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:47,000 Speaker 1: I was thinking about doing a summer internship at at 1507 01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,559 Speaker 1: the reservation on Pine Ridge. So we're there, driving around. 1508 01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,439 Speaker 1: It got dark and I said, we could will find 1509 01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:58,040 Speaker 1: my friend Jerry one feathers. All know where he lists? Well, 1510 01:25:58,040 --> 01:25:59,519 Speaker 1: he stopped us and he said, oh, you go to 1511 01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,639 Speaker 1: a mile north. You go one mile, he's go another 1512 01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:03,880 Speaker 1: half mile and that's Jerry one Feather's house. So that's 1513 01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,280 Speaker 1: what we did. And it was dark when we got there, 1514 01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:09,439 Speaker 1: but his mother was outside, native to us, and she said, oh, 1515 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,519 Speaker 1: I know who you are. I said, well, where's Jerry. 1516 01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,800 Speaker 1: She said, he has new babies in that house over there. 1517 01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:18,200 Speaker 1: So I went over, opened the door to the house, 1518 01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:23,400 Speaker 1: walked in, not knocking, beautiful young Indian woman stove cooking 1519 01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:26,920 Speaker 1: dinner and over on the sofa with my friend Jerry 1520 01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:30,320 Speaker 1: one Feather with a baby. And I said, hey, Jerry, 1521 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:33,040 Speaker 1: how's it going. He looked at me, and he looked 1522 01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,240 Speaker 1: at his wife and he said, I told you I 1523 01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:49,360 Speaker 1: knew him. That's great, do you uh this? I've tried 1524 01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:50,800 Speaker 1: to think out how to ask the questions. I don't 1525 01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:56,479 Speaker 1: really understand. I don't fully understand it myself, but I 1526 01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,960 Speaker 1: hear about. All I hear about, and I even tell 1527 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:04,160 Speaker 1: all people about it is how ripped apart we are 1528 01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:08,920 Speaker 1: as a nation right now. Part isn't you know, partisanship? 1529 01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:14,200 Speaker 1: Right If you read the news, watch the news, that's 1530 01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:18,360 Speaker 1: your understanding of what is going on right now in 1531 01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:24,639 Speaker 1: this country. But if you just go about, uh, your 1532 01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,479 Speaker 1: daily existence. I'm not talking in the last month. I 1533 01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,840 Speaker 1: just mean, like in recent years, you go about your 1534 01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:36,519 Speaker 1: daily existence, I feel that every day you still encounter 1535 01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:43,439 Speaker 1: examples of human decency, like decency being all around you. 1536 01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:49,360 Speaker 1: And so I find myself struggling to reconcile uh, what 1537 01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:54,040 Speaker 1: I understand to be going on with what I see 1538 01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:59,960 Speaker 1: going on, Well, what you see on television. Another area 1539 01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:05,559 Speaker 1: is a distillation of the toxic environment, if you will, 1540 01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:09,240 Speaker 1: that we're living in and the incendiary equality of the 1541 01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,880 Speaker 1: time that we're living in. Because that's what news is, 1542 01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,519 Speaker 1: you know, here's they don't talk. Everything's great, Yeah, here's 1543 01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:18,680 Speaker 1: a nice guy to help the guy. You got to 1544 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:20,880 Speaker 1: talk about what needs to be corrected and what's going wrong. 1545 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,680 Speaker 1: So but I think what I do believe is a 1546 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:29,120 Speaker 1: student of journalism, and especially this time, is that the 1547 01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:33,400 Speaker 1: screen is so crowded. Frankly now was everybody who wants 1548 01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:36,280 Speaker 1: to claim a place of some kind, that it does 1549 01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,280 Speaker 1: get out of proportion. And I think the biggest challenge 1550 01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:44,439 Speaker 1: for whoever the next president is, whether it's this one 1551 01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,519 Speaker 1: or whether it's Joe Uh, they're going to have to 1552 01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:50,639 Speaker 1: find a way to pull the country back together again. 1553 01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:52,920 Speaker 1: And that's gonna mean they're gonna have to reach across 1554 01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,760 Speaker 1: party lines. I thought, I actually what's called to the 1555 01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,400 Speaker 1: White House. When President Obama was first elected by friends 1556 01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:00,760 Speaker 1: of mine who are on his staff, and they were 1557 01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:06,560 Speaker 1: off to a uncertain start, and there was an intellectual 1558 01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:11,840 Speaker 1: African American guy from Harvard who was a liberal Democrat UH, 1559 01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:15,439 Speaker 1: who had not served in Washington, and it was things 1560 01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,960 Speaker 1: were not going very well at the beginning. So I 1561 01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:21,040 Speaker 1: went down, I had lunch with my friend and then 1562 01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:22,600 Speaker 1: he said, well, I have a president coming. It was 1563 01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:26,519 Speaker 1: a setup. I said, look, I don't advise presidents to him. 1564 01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:27,840 Speaker 1: I said, you know, that's not what I do on 1565 01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:32,040 Speaker 1: my journalists I cover, But in this case, just make 1566 01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:36,519 Speaker 1: a couple of observations while you got while you got me. Yeah, 1567 01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:40,120 Speaker 1: if you know, I think if you he said, look, 1568 01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:45,440 Speaker 1: these guys, Haley Barber is a real Republican from Mississippi. 1569 01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:49,920 Speaker 1: You know, really tough, smart guy, could be adopted at charming, 1570 01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:53,200 Speaker 1: but also you know his his philosophy is what he's 1571 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,320 Speaker 1: gonna pursue. He's sitting here, he said, saying nice to me. 1572 01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:57,760 Speaker 1: He's walks outside and beats my brains. And I said, 1573 01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:00,320 Speaker 1: that's what he does. That's what you know? Was what job? 1574 01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:02,920 Speaker 1: What if you surprise everybody and said you want to 1575 01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:05,320 Speaker 1: go to the state of Kansas and speak to a 1576 01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:08,720 Speaker 1: joint session of the legislature about the common problems that 1577 01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:13,000 Speaker 1: we all have and get yourself schooled on what Kansas 1578 01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,040 Speaker 1: is all about before you go out there, why are 1579 01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:17,120 Speaker 1: they that way? And try to get a dialogue going 1580 01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:23,840 Speaker 1: reach across the party lines. Didn't work, And then there 1581 01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:27,679 Speaker 1: was another episode quite similar to that with him later on. 1582 01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:32,080 Speaker 1: And I always believed it was in part because he's 1583 01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:36,120 Speaker 1: a brilliant guy, no question about it, and he also 1584 01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:41,720 Speaker 1: has a strong sense of who he is. Extraordinary background. 1585 01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:44,200 Speaker 1: You know, it was his mother and his father and 1586 01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:47,559 Speaker 1: the whole thing. But everybody I've ever known who spent 1587 01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,559 Speaker 1: time with him when he was an undergraduate in California 1588 01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:52,320 Speaker 1: where he said Harvard and all say the same thing, 1589 01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:55,560 Speaker 1: which I agree, was he's got a great mind. He 1590 01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:58,200 Speaker 1: didn't have enough boots on the ground experience, in my judgment, 1591 01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:03,479 Speaker 1: you know that Uh. For example, in the first two 1592 01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:07,519 Speaker 1: years they lost the House. You know, he was barely 1593 01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,360 Speaker 1: getting started. The Republicans took the House. So at the 1594 01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:14,880 Speaker 1: end of that election, instead of having people come to 1595 01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:17,000 Speaker 1: the White House for dinnery had him come to a 1596 01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:19,599 Speaker 1: hotel with the Jefferson Hotel and put on a dinner there. 1597 01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:23,400 Speaker 1: The wrong thing to do, you know, bring him into 1598 01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:26,439 Speaker 1: the system, show him the White House. I used to 1599 01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:29,679 Speaker 1: watch Bill Clinton was a mastress this get these guys 1600 01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,479 Speaker 1: who were uncertain about him and invite him over. We 1601 01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:34,200 Speaker 1: want to go for a morning jog, and they go 1602 01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:35,800 Speaker 1: for a morning and then they'd come back into the 1603 01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:39,200 Speaker 1: Oval office and they, uh, you know, they were blown 1604 01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:42,519 Speaker 1: away by it. So for all of his great strengths, 1605 01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:46,360 Speaker 1: and they were considerable, he was never really comfortable being 1606 01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:49,800 Speaker 1: a pall. It was not just my conclusion. I knew 1607 01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,400 Speaker 1: staff around him on the other but I'm not taking 1608 01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:54,920 Speaker 1: anything away from it. He was elected twice. He's a 1609 01:31:54,960 --> 01:32:00,720 Speaker 1: brilliant guy. He'll be well remembered. Uh for his integrity, 1610 01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:04,240 Speaker 1: his personality, his wife, his children. I mean, he's an 1611 01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:08,760 Speaker 1: extraordinary example of what we want for American leadership. But 1612 01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:12,960 Speaker 1: then it also requires, you know, an ability to say, 1613 01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:14,680 Speaker 1: maybe they have to change a little bit to get 1614 01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:18,400 Speaker 1: them to see it my way. Uh, you don't think that. 1615 01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:22,439 Speaker 1: You think it was more of a personality trait rather 1616 01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:26,840 Speaker 1: than being like he's criticized as being an elitist. Uh, 1617 01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:29,880 Speaker 1: I think personality. I mean, everybody who knew him in Harvard, 1618 01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:31,840 Speaker 1: everybody who knew him when he was in the state 1619 01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,840 Speaker 1: legislature in Illinois said the same thing. And I understood why. 1620 01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:39,599 Speaker 1: You know, he found a way to present himself that 1621 01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:42,280 Speaker 1: was acceptable to the people that he needed to get 1622 01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:45,640 Speaker 1: him elected. And it's just not his nature, you know, 1623 01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:49,960 Speaker 1: to pick a fight to go off, and particularly just 1624 01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:52,960 Speaker 1: find a way to pick a fight. He can be 1625 01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:55,400 Speaker 1: dropped day charming. I mean, I was in a big 1626 01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:58,560 Speaker 1: event in New York recently and uh, it was a 1627 01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,719 Speaker 1: Kennedy thing. He spotted me and he turned around, Hey Tommy, 1628 01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:03,280 Speaker 1: he sat down, he said, how's it going, what's going 1629 01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:06,040 Speaker 1: on and so on. But it was not a Paul's 1630 01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:08,480 Speaker 1: Paul kind of thing. It was just he was genuinely 1631 01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:14,720 Speaker 1: interested in what we were doing. Do you do you 1632 01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:21,320 Speaker 1: picture that will as a country, um pull out of this? God? 1633 01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:24,800 Speaker 1: I hope so. Uh. It's not gonna be easy. They're 1634 01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:31,840 Speaker 1: huge changes going on. They're going on politically, culturally, socially, economically. Uh. 1635 01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:34,240 Speaker 1: And it's gonna take And I know that there are 1636 01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:38,680 Speaker 1: very smart people were thinking about this. You know, how 1637 01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:42,599 Speaker 1: are we gonna stitch us back together again? How are 1638 01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:47,360 Speaker 1: you going to create a new environment? Uh? And then 1639 01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:54,400 Speaker 1: what are the parts of that environment? Uh? The blueprint 1640 01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,360 Speaker 1: is not clear to me at this point, and we 1641 01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:58,680 Speaker 1: have to get through the election. I remember talking to 1642 01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:03,280 Speaker 1: Bill Gates, uh about I don't know. I talked to 1643 01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:07,400 Speaker 1: him a couple of times when the epidemics started and 1644 01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:09,720 Speaker 1: I said, Bill, I've been on the are He said, no, 1645 01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:11,920 Speaker 1: I understand. It was very nice what you're doing Bill 1646 01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:15,400 Speaker 1: in the winda or geniuses that wasn't been doing in 1647 01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:18,040 Speaker 1: terms of was hacking that. I said, make them like 1648 01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,640 Speaker 1: the work the Gates Foundation does. And I said, it 1649 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:25,120 Speaker 1: made them the head of a new, larger reaching out 1650 01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:29,720 Speaker 1: kind of apparatus, and he said, Tom got away till 1651 01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,760 Speaker 1: the election is over. And he's right. You know that 1652 01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:35,280 Speaker 1: when the election is still going on, the stakes are 1653 01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:37,599 Speaker 1: so big about who gets to sit in the White 1654 01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,400 Speaker 1: House that you're going to get through that first before 1655 01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:44,400 Speaker 1: you can go to the next step. When when you 1656 01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:50,759 Speaker 1: asked Spencer if he was Mennonite, a Mennonite was because 1657 01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:54,280 Speaker 1: his stunning beard, because where he's from, you it's just 1658 01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:57,920 Speaker 1: that area, oh that neck of it was. My hometown 1659 01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:01,800 Speaker 1: is called Mennow So yeah, do you ever think about 1660 01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:03,920 Speaker 1: shaving your mustache off and going with more of an 1661 01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:07,760 Speaker 1: amish look? Uh? It naturally happened when my beard first 1662 01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:10,880 Speaker 1: started coming in so accidentally that was a period of time. 1663 01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:13,360 Speaker 1: But now, yeah, that's an unusual group because you're the 1664 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:16,000 Speaker 1: only one with the beard. Beards have taken over America. 1665 01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,559 Speaker 1: Have my Wall Street buddies are all bearded now, you know, 1666 01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:25,840 Speaker 1: not clean shaven. It's it's happening, but in a way 1667 01:35:25,880 --> 01:35:28,360 Speaker 1: that I am always interested in how these trends start, 1668 01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, and how it becomes. I have a theory 1669 01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:34,760 Speaker 1: about it. I think it had to do with the 1670 01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:42,160 Speaker 1: War on Terror and that when the Special forces soldiers 1671 01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:45,040 Speaker 1: started growing up going in and they were trying to 1672 01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:50,479 Speaker 1: assimilate a little bit in appearance to Northern Alliance soldiers 1673 01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:53,840 Speaker 1: and things, that they started growing beards, and I think 1674 01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,960 Speaker 1: that that took off the that it was a certain 1675 01:35:57,080 --> 01:36:01,160 Speaker 1: like toughness to having one. Yeah, you know, I think 1676 01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:03,080 Speaker 1: that could have been all. I'm trying to think of 1677 01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:09,040 Speaker 1: a kind of iconic public figures in our lifetime who 1678 01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:11,680 Speaker 1: are not growing beards now because they can't because of 1679 01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:16,000 Speaker 1: will that be me? Well I could grow a chin one. Yeah, 1680 01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:19,679 Speaker 1: I don't have any. But I mean like Harrison Ford 1681 01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:22,160 Speaker 1: doesn't have a beard, for example, or a lot of 1682 01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:27,160 Speaker 1: big stars don't have beards. Nobody in our vices on 1683 01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:31,760 Speaker 1: television has gone there. I don't think that's a good point. Yeah. 1684 01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:38,800 Speaker 1: Uh one last one for you, uh in terms like 1685 01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:41,120 Speaker 1: I've all I don't know how I've always known this, 1686 01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:43,720 Speaker 1: but I've always known that you were a hunter and 1687 01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:48,479 Speaker 1: an angler. Um. It was like if someone asked me, like, 1688 01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:51,679 Speaker 1: name a fact about yeah, I'd be like Tom Broke, 1689 01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:54,439 Speaker 1: I know he likes a hunting fish. When you list 1690 01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:59,160 Speaker 1: your you know how you self identify right, people say like, 1691 01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:03,759 Speaker 1: what are you like? What makes you tick? Um? How 1692 01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:08,000 Speaker 1: towards the top or towards the bottom when you're rattling off, 1693 01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:10,479 Speaker 1: like where do you throw that in? Oh? And I 1694 01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:13,760 Speaker 1: like to hunting fish, like is that right away? Is 1695 01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:17,639 Speaker 1: it way down below? Golfing? Like? Where does it say? 1696 01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. I know, for for one thing, I 1697 01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:24,000 Speaker 1: sell them self, identify and I know you are you 1698 01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:26,800 Speaker 1: people who do know. I know who I am. I 1699 01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:29,760 Speaker 1: know what my interests are. Um. You know, in the 1700 01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,639 Speaker 1: last or of my life, I've become a writer of 1701 01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,840 Speaker 1: some note and that's very important to me. But I 1702 01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:38,800 Speaker 1: don't say I'm Tom Broco I'm a writer, But I 1703 01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:41,600 Speaker 1: generally say is that I'm Tom Broco, I'm a journalist, 1704 01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:44,599 Speaker 1: and journalism because you're a big tent, which you can 1705 01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:47,120 Speaker 1: do sort of a lot of different things. And then 1706 01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:53,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to my interests, uh, I am well, 1707 01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,679 Speaker 1: I think kid who wanted to see the Florida Post Office? 1708 01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:57,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to see what's going on. I want to 1709 01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,519 Speaker 1: turn over rocks and do things go out of the world. 1710 01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:05,000 Speaker 1: When Marith and I were finally got together, it's stunned everybody. 1711 01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:09,400 Speaker 1: She came. She was a doctor's daughter and really straight arrow, 1712 01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:11,479 Speaker 1: and here I was been through this kind of wild 1713 01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:14,880 Speaker 1: period and she always had the best answer. Her sister 1714 01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:18,960 Speaker 1: came and said, why Tom, She said, it's gonna be interesting. 1715 01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:22,400 Speaker 1: It's gonna be interesting. I want to hate you with one. 1716 01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:26,320 Speaker 1: One last one is I asked you about this key 1717 01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:30,320 Speaker 1: to fifty eight years of marriage, and it seemed like 1718 01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:35,840 Speaker 1: the answer basically is like trying to marry someone really good. Ah. 1719 01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:39,760 Speaker 1: What is do you have? Like? Uh, do you have 1720 01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:45,919 Speaker 1: a bit of life advice that you dispel about couples 1721 01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:49,400 Speaker 1: and no? No, just in general, like a thing you found, 1722 01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:52,519 Speaker 1: a thing you found to be true that would be 1723 01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:57,200 Speaker 1: of value to um, that would be of value to 1724 01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:04,240 Speaker 1: people that are now in their twenty and thirties. Uh, 1725 01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:09,120 Speaker 1: get up every morning determined to learn something that's new. Uh, 1726 01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:13,320 Speaker 1: take a chance, you know, don't be afraid to lean 1727 01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:17,760 Speaker 1: out over the precipice a little far, don't fall, but 1728 01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:20,639 Speaker 1: take a chance. I think that's a big, big part 1729 01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:26,280 Speaker 1: of it. But also what you need to do is 1730 01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:30,320 Speaker 1: to understand that proportion is an important part of life. 1731 01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:35,400 Speaker 1: You know, don't get carried away with getting a jet, 1732 01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, drinking too much, reaching too far. Uh. One 1733 01:39:41,720 --> 01:39:44,760 Speaker 1: of the reasons that our marriage works so well is 1734 01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,240 Speaker 1: that we have that kind of balance the two of us. 1735 01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:50,400 Speaker 1: You know, I have a guy who gets on the 1736 01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:52,760 Speaker 1: earth pointe flies off to a war zone bank like that, 1737 01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:56,920 Speaker 1: and Actor is saying, you know, we're gonna keep everything 1738 01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:59,880 Speaker 1: in balance. On the other hand, she went off to 1739 01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:02,479 Speaker 1: Africa to do a project in ages and ended up 1740 01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:09,280 Speaker 1: creating a fantastic business and uh, southwestern southeastern Africa for 1741 01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:16,280 Speaker 1: small villages of tomato plants. So break the rules, do things, 1742 01:40:16,360 --> 01:40:19,439 Speaker 1: but always know that there's a downside. You've gotta be careful. 1743 01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:24,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's not gonna happen without you using good judgment. 1744 01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:30,680 Speaker 1: What value do you most highly rate for yourself? But 1745 01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:37,760 Speaker 1: that's most important? Well, you know I think I I 1746 01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:40,200 Speaker 1: think honestly it's the greatest value. I just think you 1747 01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:43,600 Speaker 1: have to be honest about who you are, how you 1748 01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,080 Speaker 1: deal with people, and how they can rely on you 1749 01:40:46,120 --> 01:40:49,080 Speaker 1: are not really and we all stumble from time to time. 1750 01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:52,200 Speaker 1: You know, I've stumbled. Everybody I know is stubbled at 1751 01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:55,040 Speaker 1: one point or another. But you have to look at 1752 01:40:55,840 --> 01:41:00,360 Speaker 1: the big picture of word. Is that all fit in? Then? Uh? 1753 01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:04,519 Speaker 1: You know, stumbles all not to define your entire life. 1754 01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:08,679 Speaker 1: For example. On the other hand, some small achievement ought 1755 01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:12,000 Speaker 1: not to be out of proportion either. You know, that's 1756 01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:14,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of what's expected. I am what I am, 1757 01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, and uh, you know a lot of young 1758 01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,200 Speaker 1: correspondents come to me now and I we have a great, 1759 01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:24,400 Speaker 1: great group. I'm really proud of him. You know who 1760 01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:28,240 Speaker 1: Richard Engel was. Uh No, I don't fearless correspondent. It 1761 01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:31,200 Speaker 1: works for us, and I helped recruit him to where 1762 01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:34,000 Speaker 1: we are. We stay in touch, and we stay in 1763 01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:36,880 Speaker 1: touch because I can kind of help him with you know, 1764 01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:43,519 Speaker 1: proportion in your life. A lot of the young people 1765 01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:46,439 Speaker 1: who are at NBC now, I've you know, I've come 1766 01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:49,479 Speaker 1: up through all the ranks, and I'm so proud of him, 1767 01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:50,960 Speaker 1: and I try to help him. But I don't try 1768 01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:53,639 Speaker 1: to say my wife, I just say, use your head. 1769 01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:58,960 Speaker 1: What tell me? Your story is like an inspiration for uh, 1770 01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:01,360 Speaker 1: like a kid they grew up in rural South Dakota 1771 01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:04,200 Speaker 1: that wanted to work in media. So I'm thrilled to 1772 01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:06,599 Speaker 1: be sitting here with the guy from the nightly news 1773 01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:09,439 Speaker 1: that was from South Dakota. Uh, it's a pleasure to 1774 01:42:09,479 --> 01:42:11,680 Speaker 1: meet you and see your ranch. Well. One of one 1775 01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:14,720 Speaker 1: of those things that I say, I'm always a comfortable 1776 01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:17,280 Speaker 1: more comfortable when I'm here with somebody from South Dakota 1777 01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:20,920 Speaker 1: because we have we're rooted in the same culture in 1778 01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,640 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. At what I when I am 1779 01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:27,120 Speaker 1: out there and I well, that was a dollar lama. 1780 01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:31,280 Speaker 1: You know I was bunk shower pain and Beijing, or 1781 01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:35,160 Speaker 1: what I was gorbut shop in Russia, or when I 1782 01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:38,560 Speaker 1: was you know, in South Africa. When things are going on, 1783 01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:43,880 Speaker 1: I always think what they want to know on Main 1784 01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:48,080 Speaker 1: Street Yankton. What is it that's important to them I'm 1785 01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:51,680 Speaker 1: doing this. What is it that I can do that 1786 01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,320 Speaker 1: will make their world a little more clear for him? 1787 01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:57,800 Speaker 1: And I think that served me pretty well. Uh. You know, 1788 01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,040 Speaker 1: my friends who grew up in a narrow Eastern a 1789 01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:03,360 Speaker 1: board for example, are always stunned when't we go out 1790 01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:06,920 Speaker 1: to the Midwest and I take him to a coffee shop. 1791 01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:09,160 Speaker 1: I take him to a smaller town and I tell 1792 01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:11,720 Speaker 1: him give me twenty menutes, I'll tell you where the 1793 01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:14,439 Speaker 1: Republicans are having coffee or where the Democrats are having coffee. 1794 01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,640 Speaker 1: And that is universal. You can find out, you know, 1795 01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:22,160 Speaker 1: how the world divides itself, and that's important to be 1796 01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:25,160 Speaker 1: able to know. That is there. Um. Kind of a 1797 01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:27,519 Speaker 1: follow up question on that, But you've got to cover 1798 01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of great, big events and stories in your career. 1799 01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:35,000 Speaker 1: Was there a and and and people might rate that 1800 01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:36,519 Speaker 1: or you might be able to rate it as like 1801 01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:39,080 Speaker 1: the biggest story and then on down. But is there 1802 01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:42,840 Speaker 1: a story that you covered, um, and from your personal 1803 01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:45,599 Speaker 1: perspective like very well and something that you did as 1804 01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:49,320 Speaker 1: a journalist? You said, where I really nailed it when 1805 01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:52,720 Speaker 1: I covered that event. Yeah, the brilliant Wall. I owned it. 1806 01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:56,240 Speaker 1: You know, there was nobody else there and it was 1807 01:43:56,320 --> 01:44:00,760 Speaker 1: a defining event of the twentieth century. And had a 1808 01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:05,280 Speaker 1: colleague in New York with our foreign editor, and Jerry 1809 01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:07,800 Speaker 1: said to me, not much going on here, why don't 1810 01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:09,760 Speaker 1: you go to Germany? They were beginning to spill out 1811 01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:13,040 Speaker 1: of the borders. And I said, that's a good idea. 1812 01:44:13,160 --> 01:44:18,479 Speaker 1: So I went over and I I got there and 1813 01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:21,439 Speaker 1: there was not much going on. So we started, you know, 1814 01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,400 Speaker 1: doing stories about how you could go in and out 1815 01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:25,760 Speaker 1: of each Germany. Now, the next day there was this 1816 01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,240 Speaker 1: big news conference with a guy my name at Gutra Shobowski. 1817 01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:31,760 Speaker 1: And at the end he was given a piece of 1818 01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:33,680 Speaker 1: paper and he said, oh, and it turns out and 1819 01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:39,759 Speaker 1: he misinterpreted it and he said, uh, members of the GDR, 1820 01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,639 Speaker 1: the German Democratic Republic are allowed now to go out. 1821 01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:47,400 Speaker 1: So the next day this news conference, good Shabowski says, 1822 01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:49,080 Speaker 1: you can go wherever we want to go. And it 1823 01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,200 Speaker 1: was like lightning had hit this room where we were, 1824 01:44:52,360 --> 01:44:54,840 Speaker 1: and nobody thought, was that true? Can it be true? 1825 01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:58,160 Speaker 1: And I had a prior appointment with him, and so 1826 01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:01,840 Speaker 1: I went upstairs at my for this wonderful woman threw 1827 01:45:01,880 --> 01:45:04,280 Speaker 1: herself against the door to keep other reporters out. I said, 1828 01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:07,360 Speaker 1: say to my camera, what's going on? And he tells, 1829 01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, and then we put that on the air 1830 01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:13,160 Speaker 1: and the world blew up. You know, it was it 1831 01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:16,560 Speaker 1: was chaotic. At first. The guards thought they had to 1832 01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:19,320 Speaker 1: shoot the people who were going to come across. And 1833 01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:21,680 Speaker 1: I was the only one of the world who had 1834 01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:24,000 Speaker 1: a satellite to get out of that night and it 1835 01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:28,760 Speaker 1: was a clean kill. And it was because others had 1836 01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:32,800 Speaker 1: made preparations. You know, Broadcast journalism is not a one 1837 01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:35,639 Speaker 1: man sport. It's a you know, it's a team effort. 1838 01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:40,479 Speaker 1: So everybody did their job and we were you know, 1839 01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:45,160 Speaker 1: it was the biggest single triumph of my lifetime. In 1840 01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:48,960 Speaker 1: terms of a scoop as you were changed the world. 1841 01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:52,800 Speaker 1: Here's the other part of the story. That's fun. So 1842 01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:57,960 Speaker 1: h the next day we continue to work and I, 1843 01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:00,519 Speaker 1: I guess I didn't get a asked to talk to 1844 01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:05,000 Speaker 1: Marath until I got back, and uh so when I 1845 01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:09,000 Speaker 1: got back, I said to her, well, what did you think? 1846 01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:11,040 Speaker 1: She said, You're not gonna believe this, And I said 1847 01:46:11,120 --> 01:46:15,519 Speaker 1: what she said? We had apartment, our apartment with some 1848 01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:18,240 Speaker 1: work was being done, so Tim Rosser had an apartment 1849 01:46:18,280 --> 01:46:21,000 Speaker 1: of New York and we were using that. So she said, 1850 01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:23,000 Speaker 1: I was, you know, at Tim the Marines and I 1851 01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:26,200 Speaker 1: went out to play and I came home, took the 1852 01:46:26,280 --> 01:46:30,160 Speaker 1: dogs out for walkdon turn on television, and I had 1853 01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:33,639 Speaker 1: no idea that this was going on. And the next 1854 01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:35,439 Speaker 1: morning I went for a walk in the park with 1855 01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:37,479 Speaker 1: the dogs and everybody came up with tears in their 1856 01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:39,639 Speaker 1: eyes and saying, my god, you must be so proud 1857 01:46:39,680 --> 01:46:41,760 Speaker 1: of that. The most thrilling thing I've ever seen shed. 1858 01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:45,479 Speaker 1: I had no idea what they were talking. That's great. 1859 01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:50,160 Speaker 1: So all right, well, Tom Brokell, thank you very much 1860 01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:53,800 Speaker 1: for joining us. Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time, 1861 01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:57,160 Speaker 1: especially letting us come into your beautiful home here. So 1862 01:46:58,200 --> 01:47:04,320 Speaker 1: here's too that prospective healing of the country that I 1863 01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:07,519 Speaker 1: hope will well. I think that's the most important. Is 1864 01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:10,200 Speaker 1: the greatest test for America since the Civil War. That's 1865 01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:13,519 Speaker 1: the last word I'd like to say there. Uh, you know, 1866 01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:16,600 Speaker 1: when we went through the depression, everybody was in the 1867 01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:20,320 Speaker 1: same boat and pulling on the same levers as it were, 1868 01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:23,200 Speaker 1: to try to survive. World War two is a classic 1869 01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:26,639 Speaker 1: example of America being more than some of its parts. 1870 01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:29,599 Speaker 1: How good it wasn't what it did. The sixties were 1871 01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:32,880 Speaker 1: very divisive in America, but we emerged from them and 1872 01:47:33,040 --> 01:47:37,360 Speaker 1: learned from them. This is a double whammy. We've got 1873 01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:42,400 Speaker 1: a fatal disease in the air that people are inhaling, 1874 01:47:42,560 --> 01:47:45,519 Speaker 1: and we don't have control of it yet, and thousands 1875 01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:49,200 Speaker 1: of people are dying. We also have a toxic political 1876 01:47:49,400 --> 01:47:53,680 Speaker 1: environment in which the current President of United States is 1877 01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:58,120 Speaker 1: doing all that he can two divide the country, not 1878 01:47:58,280 --> 01:48:02,439 Speaker 1: to unite it. And therefore the challenges for all of us, 1879 01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:06,439 Speaker 1: not just on the right, although I think more of 1880 01:48:06,520 --> 01:48:08,680 Speaker 1: them have to step up, or on the left by 1881 01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,200 Speaker 1: taking advantage of what's going on. We all have to 1882 01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:14,600 Speaker 1: find a way to work together and there are some 1883 01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:18,240 Speaker 1: truths that are hard and people are having a hard 1884 01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:22,080 Speaker 1: time facing up to them. But unless we do, you know, 1885 01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:24,760 Speaker 1: this great, great experiment is going to be in a 1886 01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:29,360 Speaker 1: lot of trouble. There's no need for that. Thank you 1887 01:48:29,479 --> 01:48:30,240 Speaker 1: and preaching