1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Unbust Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: We are popping in again from hiatus to have a 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: much needed conversation all about de influencing. If you're on TikTok, 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: you've probably already seen content about de influencing, which is 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: pretty much exactly what it sounds like. We're influencing tries 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: to influence you to buy certain things. D influencing says, 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: wait a minute, actually, do you need to buy another 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: water bottle when you already have five in your cabinet. 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: I am fascinated by the phenomena that is de influencing, 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: and more importantly, what this de influencing trend says about 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: our current social and economic climate. So I joined my 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: friends Samantha and Annie over at the podcast stuff. Mom 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: never told you to dig into de influencing and why 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: we are seeing it all over our social media feeds, 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoy. I have a theory that, 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: especially during times that are like turbulent or uncertain, the 19 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: pandemic would definitely fit into this um. Many of us, 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: myself very very much included really turned to online shopping 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: for a quick serotonin boost or a quick you know 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: this is gonna feel good, or like I got into 23 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: this habit of enjoying the feeling of kind of giving 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: myself Christmas every day, like, oh, there's gonna be when 25 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: I come home, there's gonna be a present waiting for me, 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, from past me. And so this is not 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: just my theory. I do have a little bit of 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: research to back it up. People really leaned into online 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: shopping during the pandemic. According to the most recent annual 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: retail Trade Survey release from the Census, e commerce sales 31 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: increased by two hundred and forty four point two billion 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: dollars or um the first year of the pandemic, rising 33 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: from five hundred and seventy one point to billion in 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: nine to eight hundred and fifteen point four billion. Uh. 35 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: And people again, myself, very shamefully included, uh, really relied 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: on online retailers, specifically like Amazon. Unsurprisingly, Amazon stock hit 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: a new all time high during and it's only now 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: like pretty recently starting to fall from that huge booth 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: during the beginning of the pandemic. And a quick disclaimer 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: here that like I just people need to say that. Obviously, 41 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: we're gon, we're gonna be talking about our online shopping habits, 42 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: but there are a whole bunch of folks who rely 43 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: on online shopping for very legitimate, real reasons. Folks with 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: disabilities or chronic illnesses, you know. For them, online shopping 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: can be a lifeline being a swamped parent or a 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: caregiver who can't always you know, pop out to the 47 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: store for one thing. It's also a reason why somebody 48 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: might really really lean on online shopping. I don't want 49 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: to make it seem like anybody who is pressing by 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: online is just leaning into bad habits that they should question. Um, 51 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: So I'm not talking about those folks. I'm really taught 52 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: talking about the quick purchase of things that you really 53 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: don't need or maybe even really don't want because an 54 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: algorithm on social media told you to do so. And 55 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: I want to talk about why the tide is maybe 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: sort of turning on this a little bit. Okay, Yeah, 57 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: I mean it has been. I have a friend who 58 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: loves Target, not a sponsor, but she loves like the 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 1: Target app, and like she will text me as if like, yeah, 60 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: Christmas has come early. The Target app has updated, and 61 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: I feel like this wasn't a thing during the pandemic, 62 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: and we've talked about it because it is clearly like 63 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: a emotional it's something she does when she's stressed, and 64 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: then like, I feel that during the pandemic, I have 65 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: seen that a lot more where people are like, I 66 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: need something that will make me feel better for a 67 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: little bit. Also, this is a great point that you 68 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: brought out, because I did. I hate it when people 69 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: are like judging folks for I don't know, getting groceries 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: delivered or whatever. And there's a lot of impact of that. 71 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: But for some people that's not like laziness, right. I mean, 72 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: we definitely relied on it during the pandemic as something 73 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: that when we didn't want to go out, we didn't 74 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: want to spread things. We were very concerned people who 75 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: were even compromised, and it was a resource that was 76 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: necessary that really did help try to maintain the spread. 77 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: And it's that that was the first time you really 78 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: understood why this could be beneficial. But yeah, that definitely 79 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: could be abused and I know this is a whole 80 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: different thing, and that's the whole conversation of like people 81 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: with disabilities have to rely on things like this, and 82 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: it's a service that that should have been happening previously. Absolutely, 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: we absolutely should not be like judging or shaming people 84 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: for whom they really rely on this for a lifeline. 85 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons why it's 86 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: so important that the people who are you know, doing 87 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: the grocery delivery, who are the workers and the staff, 88 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: they should be treated well, they should be compensated well, 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: they should have protections like and people with disabilities should 90 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: not have to rely on like private some pretty exploitative 91 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: like grocery delivery apps like we like, everybody deserves better 92 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: and we shouldn't be judging anybody who is just trying 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: to live their life. Um. But I do think that 94 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: we are in a place where people who again myself included, 95 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: maybe got into some bad online shopping habits without really 96 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: hitting pause and really thinking about whether those habits, you know, 97 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: maybe got us through a tough time emotionally during but 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: maybe aren't really serving us so well or wallets so 99 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: well if you're me here right right. It's kind of 100 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: interesting because I think we've talked about this for I'm 101 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: a big fan of TikTok, I can get lost in 102 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: it for hours and hours at a time. I get 103 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: that so many things and like, yeah, it starts to 104 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: read me and I'm like, okay, stop that. Why are 105 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: you sitting at me? An add about this And it's 106 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: not necessarily an add but it's someone that I trust, 107 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: or say trust uh and quotes because it's someone that 108 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: I like and follow and they seem like good people 109 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: you never know, uh. And then they're like, oh, yeah, 110 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: these are my five Amazon fines and these are my 111 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: five Costco fines and I'm like, yes, you are correct. 112 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: I need those things. Have did I know that it existed? No? 113 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: But I absolutely need those things, and it's getting to 114 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: be more and more. The five Amazon stuff always gets me. 115 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: And I have this thing with like there's so many 116 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: creators on TikTok, which I'm also addicted to. Uh, so 117 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: I feel you on that, Sam, but like TikTok ers 118 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: who are all about you know, like, oh, here's like 119 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: here's what my really organized desk or workspace looks like 120 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: Like I clearly have some kind of emotional hang up 121 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: around the way that work gets done in my life, 122 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: and so I subsequently follow a lot of creators for 123 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: who mets their niche, and so they're like, here's what 124 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: my notion looks like, Here's what my dot journaling looks like. 125 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: You're is what my laptop or workstation looks like, and 126 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: that I clearly have some kind of a like hang 127 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: up about that internally, and so I watch a lot 128 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: of that, And so whenever they're like, my, you know, 129 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: go to my Amazon store front my five you know, 130 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: the five things that really helped me stay productive, I 131 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: know that I'm kind of vulnerable and prime to just 132 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: click by without even thinking about it because it speaks 133 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: to some sort of internal like the issue I have 134 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: where I'm like, I must think that, oh, the way 135 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: that work gets done in my life is not up 136 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: to par with the way that work gets done in 137 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: the lives of other creative people or something. And so 138 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: it's really I think part of it really is like 139 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: knowing your triggers and knowing knowing the the vulnerabilities that 140 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: you have that we're so likely to try to fill 141 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: by hitting by now or by buying a thing that 142 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: we really ultimately might not even need. And so you 143 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: know that if I had to give this this conversation 144 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: like a so what it's that we should really be 145 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: in a headspace of asking some questions when it feels 146 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: like the algorithm or the app or the platform is 147 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: the one in control and we are passive. I think 148 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: that what is really important is if we switch that 149 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: dynamic so that we, the human, the person who makes 150 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: the money and makes the decisions about how the money 151 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: gets spent, is the one in control and that we 152 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: are not, you know, at the behest of algorithms and 153 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 1: influencers who we don't even know, and you know, apps 154 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: and platforms, and so in service of that, I think 155 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense to kind of talk about 156 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: how we got here, like a little bit of a 157 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: look back on influencing and how how we got to 158 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: this point. Or maybe people are kind of starting to 159 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: ask a few questions about the role that social media 160 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: influencing has on our life. So if I had to 161 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: ask you, what do you think used to be the 162 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: main app on social media where a lot of influencing 163 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: was taking place, what would you say? Instagram? Instagram? Instagram. 164 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: It's absolutely Instagram. You know, back in the goals, the 165 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: era of Instagram, it looked good, it had a good layout, 166 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: it was easy to use, it was understandable. It was. 167 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: It was it was a different time, right, and so 168 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: I think like one it felt back then this one 169 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, like this is liketeen is when I 170 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: would kind of situate this. So it felt kind of 171 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: clear how one would get engagement. So if you were 172 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: on the if you were an influencer, if you were 173 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: on the influencer side of things, you probably had a 174 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: pretty clear sense of like what the algorithm was going 175 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: to reward. It rewarded images of faces, for instance, and 176 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: so the rules seemed pretty doable. You know, post every 177 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: day post natively from the Instagram app as opposed to 178 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: adding a picture later. Like it was pretty clear like 179 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: what you needed to do to to do well on Instagram. 180 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: Algorithmically speaking, I think that us, as the audience who 181 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: was consuming the content that influencers made on Instagram, we 182 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: also had a pretty good sense of what to expect. 183 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: You know, you were gonna get conventionally attractive women who 184 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: were giving you like life envy and making it seem like, 185 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: oh well, if you bought this specific item, your life 186 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: could be like mine, right, And like, obviously this is 187 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: like a curated, manufactured lie that could absolutely be harmful 188 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: to people who were consuming it um as researchers like 189 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: very clear, but I would argue that there was something 190 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: familiar to it, right, Like we understood what to expect 191 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: as an audience who was consuming the content of influencers. 192 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: But now here. There are two big things that are 193 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,599 Speaker 1: happening that I believe have really shifted this Golden Instagram 194 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: age and thus shifted how folks are maybe feeling about influencers. 195 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: The first is that the social media landscape is really 196 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: really changing and really seeing some seismic shifts. We've seen 197 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: this play out in a couple of ways. One, people 198 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: just are not using Instagram like they were in the 199 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: golden era of you know, a new report in the 200 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: Atlantic that came out last month called Everyone Is Over 201 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: Instagram said that Instagram is slowly and steadily losing its 202 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: relevant specifically with young users, and like that's the user 203 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: base that any social media platform really needs to court, 204 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: like young people. You want young people to really be 205 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: using your platform for to feel like really relevant, right right. 206 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: And It's funny because I I am not on TikTok, 207 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: but I've noticed that Instagram is just like videos now 208 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: it's like to talk, which is a different thing. It's 209 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: a different thing. Um, but it is interesting to me. 210 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: I love I'm fascinated by kind of these like shifts. 211 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: Why do people like, like why are people into TikTok 212 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: over like Instagram? Why why is that happening? Um? But yeah, 213 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: I mean why why is it that Instagram has lost favor? 214 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: Why is it fading? That's a great question. I would 215 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: say one is just that, like when the rules become 216 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: less transparent or just less doable, I think people find 217 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: it less kind of worth it to post there, right, 218 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: And so I think that if the rules felt clear 219 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: in Tony four teen, today, it seems like every month 220 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: Instagram announces a new things are going to be prioritizing. 221 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: It used to be static images, then it's going to 222 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: be video. You know. It used to be like if 223 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: you posted once a day, that was enough. Then Instagram 224 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: put out guidance for creators that was like, oh, you 225 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: need to be making four reels a day. That's a 226 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: lot of content. It's just not possible. And so if 227 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: Instagram decides we're going to algorithmically reward people who follow, 228 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: this like difficult to follow and also difficult to understand 229 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: and constantly changing set of guidelines, and if you don't 230 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: follow those, we're not going to show your post to anybody, 231 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: even your friends, even the people who want to see 232 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: your posts. It just eventually starts to feel like, well, 233 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: what's the point, right, Like that's one of the reasons 234 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: why personally, like I've used Instagram less. It's because whatever 235 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: the guidance is they give to creators to try to 236 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: get more engagement on the platform, it's just too much. 237 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: Right Like I have at work, I don't. It's like, 238 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: Instagram is not my job. For some people, it is 239 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: their job, and so I can understand, you know, playing 240 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: the game a willle bit more, but it's not what 241 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: I do. I have do other things in my life. 242 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: And so if then I'm going to be kind of 243 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: I use this word very lightly, but like punished algorithmically 244 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: by having my content not shown to people, even people 245 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: who I know, even people who are my friends who 246 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: I know want to see that content. What is the point? Like? 247 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: Why why jump through those hoops if that's how you're 248 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: gonna gonna be treated on a platform, you know, right? 249 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: You know? And I was thinking as with Instagram when 250 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: we were talking about yes, there's all these reels and 251 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: the younger people are getting frustrated. They also changed the algorithm. 252 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: I know there was like a whole year long campaign 253 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: of people just asking can you see this post um, 254 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: And even for our posts at stuff mo, I've never 255 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: told you we are verified. We have our thirty thousand followers. 256 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: We rarely get more than four or five likes because 257 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: we don't post but every other day. And like when 258 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: you look up, how do you get you know, followers 259 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: or views. It's literally like you said the post four things, 260 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: but now it's adding post this, putting it on the reel, 261 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: put it on the like the videos, and you have 262 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: to do all three of those things. So you're literally 263 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: taking four post times three to put it on the 264 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: same site, and it doesn't sound like it's worth it anymore. 265 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: And then the suppression alone with the algorithm, why just 266 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: why exactly? And you have to basically be a one 267 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: person like studio, right because like you have to make 268 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: the post turn it into a real comments and it's 269 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: like you have a job, dude, Like you're a podcaster. 270 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: It's like your job is not doing Instagram. And I've 271 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: actually worked with like um social media managers, like professional 272 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: social media managers to help grow my account. And you know, 273 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: this was a few years ago, so I can't speak 274 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: to whether or not this is good advice now, So 275 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: don't try this thinking this is this is how you 276 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: grow Instagram now because I really don't know. But something 277 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: that she did is like, oh yeah, I just spend 278 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: a good amount of time commenting on content of accounts 279 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: that are similar to you in what they post. And 280 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: so you know, she would spend like two hours a 281 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: day this being like great posts. Yeah, I love this, 282 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: and like, who has time for that? Right? Like I 283 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: was doing a little experiment to see if it woul help, 284 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: and it actually did help grow my account. But like, 285 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: am I going to sit there and do that? Absolutely not, right, Like, 286 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: and so I can see why people are just like, yeah, 287 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. Don't need that. And I 288 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: think any I think that you mentioned that, um, when 289 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: you go to Instagram now, what you've kind of see 290 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: is a lot of reels that are really TikTok's that 291 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: you saw on TikTok if you have that platform, you know, 292 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: a week ago, and so it kind of I think separately, 293 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: I think that Instagram is really confused about what role 294 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: they are trying to play in our lives and in 295 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: our social media diets. I don't think that they know. 296 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: I think that like one day it will be images, 297 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: one day it'll be real. It's like not clear and 298 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: it's so funny because, um, someone else who is really 299 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: impressed about this are the Kardashians. Folks might recall that 300 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: over the summer, um, Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian both 301 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: posted an image saying, make Instagram Instagram again. Stop trying 302 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: to be TikTok. I just want to see cute photos 303 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: of my friends. And this is really kind of not 304 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: surprising to me because the Kardashians are so good at 305 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: being Instagram friendly or the friendly for the version of 306 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,359 Speaker 1: Instagram that Instagram used to be, right, Like, they're all beautiful, 307 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: they all take beautiful pictures. They're all really good at 308 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: looking kind of Instagram perfect and polished. TikTok takes it 309 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: in a completely different skill set. You kind of have 310 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: to be funny or engaging, or you know, you have 311 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: to have something that's gonna make Like, just looking good 312 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: on TikTok is not enough. You have to bring something else. 313 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: And no shade to the Kardashians that is not my 314 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: skill set either, So I'm not I'm not trying to 315 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: put them down or anything. And so what's interesting is 316 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: that after the Kardashians said, like, oh, go back to 317 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: cute pictures of my friends, the head of Instagram responded 318 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: over the summer saying that Instagram they just needed to 319 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: focus on video and reels to survive and grow as 320 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: a platform. Um. But then just last week he posted 321 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: that you know that was the wrong move. He did 322 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: a complete about face, and he said that Instagram quote 323 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: over folk is on video last year, and so now 324 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: the platform is going back to balancing the amount of 325 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: photos and video shown to users. UM. In one example 326 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: that he gave, you said that Instagram will consider how 327 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: often a person likes some comments on photos versus videos 328 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: to determine which content will appear first in their feeds. 329 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: And so this really tells me they're like, they don't 330 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: know what they're doing. They're not sure of their strategy. 331 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's not clear to them what they're trying 332 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: to be. And I think it's no wonder how people 333 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I'll let y'all figure it out. And 334 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: while you'll figure it out, I'm gonna be on TikTok 335 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: or or just be getting rid of social media altogether. 336 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's kind of funny because I 337 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: think of this analogy. When you think of Instagram, I 338 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: think of the elder millennials as me. Don't don't. I 339 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: don't want to hear it, because I've been between the 340 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: xers and the millennials. I came at the right of 341 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: the cup. But like elder millennials trying to be cool 342 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: and hip and talk to those gen z ears who 343 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: would be the TikTok goods and all, that's what's happening. 344 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: What we see is like Instagram trying to be really 345 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: cool and really relevant. It's just kind of missing the 346 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: mark because we are no longer at that point in life. 347 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 1: And I find it funny because that's all I can 348 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: think of TikTok versus Instagram. I'm trying to become TikTok, 349 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: and TikTok's like I don't care about you, so nothing 350 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: is like more. I mean, I love I love this 351 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: contact because I think that like gen z younger folks, 352 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: I like, I love it when they come for us 353 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: elder millennials. Um, sometimes they'll be like things that millennials 354 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,239 Speaker 1: really need to stop doing on Instagram, and they I'm 355 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: always like yes, drag me like like no more boomerang, 356 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: you can fix us, thank you, and you know the 357 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: other part of that. And again, I think this has 358 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: a lot to do with the generational changes, and again 359 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: I love it is like, yeah, Instagram really gave birth to, 360 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: as we said, influencers and selling us things and selling 361 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: us ideas and selling us things that we will never 362 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: be and try to what what we try to still attain, 363 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: which is the Kardashians. You know, they were really big 364 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: force uh in that. But with TikTok, it seems like 365 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: the younger generations that was really into it was like, 366 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: we're tired of celebrities. We want a chance to see 367 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: regular people who have a lot of good ideas and content. 368 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: And the TikTok is for the people. Because I know 369 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of pushback as celebrities are not 370 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: jumping on TikTok, but people, I stop it, this is 371 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: not for you. Oh my god, I could talk about 372 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: this for hours. This is something I find so fascinating. 373 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: So I think because TikTok is a younger platform, they 374 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: just have a completely different relationship with digital life than 375 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: like them then millennials have and so I absolutely agree 376 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: with you that, especially for younger folks who are spending 377 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: time on TikTok, and TikTok is the is the fastest 378 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: growing social media app out there right now. I think 379 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: the audience is very different from the curated Instagram audience 380 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: and that they do want more real stuff, but they 381 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: want authenticity, not that like fake like oh my house 382 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: is so messy, authenticity like really authenticity, and they are vocal, 383 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: like they will call you out. There was a whole 384 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: thing with um. I think it was Bethanie Frankel going 385 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: on TikTok and her transition to TikTok wasn't very smooth, 386 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: and I think part of it is because like celebrities 387 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: maybe are used to being able to say certain things 388 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: and get everybody fawning all over them on Instagram or 389 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: on other social media platforms, and they're not finding that 390 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: reception on TikTok. Like TikTok is the app for like 391 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: regular people to talk, it's not for celebrities to like 392 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: hawk their perfect lives. And there's actually a influencer right now, 393 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: like a big influencer michaela Nigeria. I apologize I been 394 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: saying her last name wrong, but um, it's in very 395 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: hot water for trying to do a mascara brand like 396 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: sponsored content while allegedly wearing false lashes. And so obviously 397 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: you can't be like this. A mascara is so great. 398 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: Look look at the way it should transform my lad 399 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: to where it's like, I think those are freak flashes, um, 400 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: And so people are calling this person out because that 401 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: doesn't fly there, right, And so I think that, like, 402 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: you're exactly right, Sam, that the audience that is big 403 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: on TikTok is a lot more vocal, a lot more savvy, 404 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: and they will call you out if they feel like 405 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: they're being pushed something that's just like like a fantasy 406 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: that's not real. Maybe on on Instagram you might get 407 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: away with that, but not on TikTok. Well, I will 408 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: say the thing about TikTok is there are TikTok sluts 409 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: that that is their intent and entire content is like 410 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: to call out the falsehood of other content. It is 411 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 1: the rabbit holes I have gone down where I'm like, 412 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: I don't even know this person. I have never even 413 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: seen them on TikTok, but apparently they're faking having a 414 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: scar to get clouts. I need to reach a thousand 415 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: comments and spend six hours of my time on this 416 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,239 Speaker 1: despite only having one one life to live on this 417 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: green nurse. And I know what you're talking about, and 418 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: I hate that. I know what you're talking about out 419 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: because I did the dance same thing. What is this 420 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: that to do with it? Like, it has nothing to 421 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: do with me. This isn't even somebody who I follow 422 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: or I'm invested in, like you get you're like people 423 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: the evidence that people compile. It's like, I'm fascinated if 424 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: if anything ever happens to me. I guess I shouldn't 425 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: say that, but like the way that like TikTok's flues 426 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: are able to like investigate the nitty gritty, that really 427 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. My hats are off to them. The petty. 428 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: The petty is real, and if it's all in good fun, 429 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: there's definitely seriousness that we definitely talked about before. But 430 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: the pettiness is real. And when you get invested in, 431 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: you're just like, well, well well, and you can't help 432 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: but be the voyor and you feel a little guilty. 433 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: I will say that, um, but you can't put one 434 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: over on them. And it continues to baffle me because 435 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: as as you're talking about TikTok is one of the 436 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: younger ones, the way that it has grown exponentially, I'm like, 437 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: is it going to be able to keep up with 438 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: that demand? Yeah, that's such a great question. I actually 439 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: this is a this is a a fuego take. So 440 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, whatever is my opinion. I think that we 441 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: are going to see government legislation of TikTok in This 442 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: is like my big tech prediction. I think that it's 443 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: growing so much. I think there are national security questions. 444 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: I guess I'll just put it that way. I think 445 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: that you know, there have been there is like rarer 446 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: bipartisan support for doing something about TikTok. It's already been 447 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: banned on I think federal government devices can't have TikTok 448 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: on them. A handful of states have banned having TikTok 449 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: on state run devices, and that number is growing. Universities 450 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: are the same at numbers growing of universities that have 451 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: banned TikTok from state state owned devices. I think that 452 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: we are seeing enough traction in government in a in 453 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: a bipartisan way and also civil society and institutions that 454 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: I do think that like something is going to happen 455 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: or be done to combat TikTok's growth, because their growth 456 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: has just been like if folks want to look it up, 457 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: like it is wild, how many users it is gaining. 458 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: It's just it's just like exploding. One of the things 459 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: that I think about TikTok becoming kind of the new 460 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: place where people are spending their time online on social media. Um, 461 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: why that might be fueling a kind of backlash against 462 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: influencing is that this moves a lot faster than Instagram, 463 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: which fuels what they call micro trends. And so if 464 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: a trend is something that it's in style for a 465 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: little bit of time, a micro trend is something that 466 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: becomes in style or in vogue very quickly and then 467 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: burns out just as quickly. Something can be iconic and 468 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: very popular one month, and by the end of the 469 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: month people are talking about it being out of style. 470 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: A great example is like, um, this clothing brand I 471 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: really doubled down on and like went for a hard 472 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: house of sunny. They make this like very bright colored 473 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: clothing that really pops on social media, and I was like, 474 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: oh my god, and I bought like a sweater and 475 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: address and this and that. Maybe a month later people 476 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: were like, oh, would already looks so dated. And so 477 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: if you think about what is sort of in style, 478 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: how quickly it becomes sort of pass I think that 479 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: TikTok becoming a place where people spend more of their 480 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: digital time online is one of the reasons why trends 481 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: are kind of flaming out so quickly, and so if 482 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: you're an influencer, you know that's just a lot having 483 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: to like it is exhausting to be in even this 484 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: in the audience, to be told you need to buy 485 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: a new thing over and over and over again, and 486 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: in in January, it's this water bottle. In February that 487 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: water bottles out. Now it's this water bottle. It's it's 488 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: no wonder that people can't really keep up with that 489 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: because it's too fast. That's so funny. I feel like 490 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm the like millennial person that comes in like, oh, 491 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: I finally got this thing, and they're like, that's three 492 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: years ago, what are you doing. It does feel like 493 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: it moves very very quickly, and actually an interesting implication 494 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: of this kind of thing is like, because I also 495 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: do a food podcast, is the thing like the feta pasta, 496 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: like feta cheese, like couldn't you couldn't find it anywhere, 497 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: And it was because of TikTok. And then a month 498 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: later everyone was like, what are you talking about? But 499 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: for that one month, nobody could find feta cheese. Yeah, 500 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: I see it with food. It's so interesting when it 501 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: happens with food because it does correlate with when you 502 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: go to the grocery store. It's just like not there. Um, 503 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: I've heard that tinned fish is like the new thing 504 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: right now, which if you don't want to talk about 505 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: like our economic climate, the fact that like tinned fish 506 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: that go just having our tinned fish date that tells 507 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: me something. I'm like, oh, people are thinking about our 508 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: economic climate in some perhaps like less than cheery outlook, 509 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: which brings us to what we've been talking about. Is 510 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: another piece of this is like like like what I 511 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: was saying with myself my friends, is this anxiety of 512 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: this like maybe if I buy this thing, I'll feel better, 513 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: like maybe this will make things better. And that's not 514 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: unique absolutely, And so the second thing that we're seeing 515 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: that's really I think shaping all this is this kind 516 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: of feeling of like economic unease and uncertainty that is 517 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: impacting the way that people are responding to influencing. I 518 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: think that a lot of folks are concerned about an 519 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: economic downturn. We're seeing like layoffs and a lot of 520 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: sectors like tech and media. I don't I think people 521 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: are perhaps wary about spending money on things that they 522 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: see online and maybe doing it in a different way 523 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: than maybe once we're in And I think that, like 524 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: more importantly, I think that as we go into times 525 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: that are uncertain, economically uncertain, economically unstable, people don't really 526 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: want to open up their phone and see people living 527 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: the high life, right Like, it just doesn't feel good 528 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: to be worried about inflation, worried about food being on 529 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: the shelves, worried about how you're gonna make rent, if 530 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna be laid off, and open your phone and 531 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: see an influencer trying to sell you that their life 532 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: is perfect and that your life can be perfect too 533 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: if you buy this thing that you don't need, don't 534 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: have money for, and don't even really want. I think 535 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: that people are just not feeling that vibe anymore. I 536 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 1: think there was a time where that had a time 537 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: and a place and it felt very familiar. I think 538 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: right now we're not loving it. Yeah, yeah, it just 539 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: feels kind of like out of touch. And and and you 540 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: brought up the Kardashians earlier, and they're big, like they've 541 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: even been in the news recently for like lawsuits, but 542 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: they were really big about this of like selling you 543 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: a thing. It just felt like they weren't kind of 544 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: reading the room. I guess, like totally. I remember they 545 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: and I talked about this in an episode of There 546 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet, my own podcast Around 547 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: the Holidays. I remember, I think it was last year 548 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: or the year before, they posted their Easter spread, and 549 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: it was like the most opulent thing, like even for 550 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: Kardashian standards, the most opulent thing you've ever seen. It 551 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: was like life like life size Teddy Bears, full size, 552 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: like five full size gumball machine means, was like pink 553 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: gum in them for bicycles. It was like the most 554 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: elaborate and lavish opulent spread, even by Kardashian standards, that 555 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: I have seen. And the response was not like, Wow, 556 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: how cool for them. The response was over consume much like, 557 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: and I think that that really shows us that we 558 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: are in a place where when they posted that, they 559 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: probably thought everyone was gonna love it, but in reality, 560 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: most people were like, this is a little opulent, seems 561 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: a little tacky, seems a lot of a little out 562 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: of touch for one holiday, Like, at what point do 563 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: we start asking questions about the value of over consumption 564 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: and whether or not that's a value that is like 565 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: inherently good or healthy or like serving us in our lives, right, 566 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: And I mean Instagram and that that's kind of thing, 567 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: is like you're presenting this really curated version of your life, 568 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: um and then kind of at least in my case. 569 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: And I think there's been some says about this, but 570 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: like feeling bad because you'd see other people's pictures are 571 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: like their life is way better than mine. But also, 572 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: and I could be wrong about this, but I feel 573 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: like a lot of the influencers I saw on Instagram 574 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: were women, Like a lot of the people who were like, Hey, 575 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: you need to buy this thing, And maybe that's just 576 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: an algorithm for me, but it's not just you. I 577 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: think this is inherently gendered. The lion share of influencers 578 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: are women and girls. According to a study by the 579 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: influencer marketing agency Isaiah, women accounted for more than of 580 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: sponsorships made as influencers. But I should know if that, 581 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: because this is America. There is also an influencer pay gap. 582 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: Even though there are more like women make up the 583 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: bulk of influencing, they're still paid less than men for influencing, 584 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 1: which is a real head scratcher. But yeah, I think 585 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: it's women and girls who are being sold all of 586 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: this and they're not. It's we're not. It's being sold products. 587 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: We are being sold products as a proxy for like 588 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: getting your life together, or like succeeding being a woman, 589 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: or or I think that we're being sold on the 590 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: idea that you can consume your way into the kind 591 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: of life that you want. And I think that capitalism 592 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: and consumption as a means of perpetuating gender roles has 593 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: always been a thing. And I think right now, I 594 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: think a lot of women are just exhausted. We have 595 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: been burdened with so much, we have had our rights, 596 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: just like, it's not a very rosy time to be 597 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: a woman. What I'm saying, I don't want. I feel 598 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: like if I go into it, I'll be all here 599 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: all day. But you know, I think that a lot 600 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: of women are just like, on top of everything else 601 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: that we have to shoulder. I don't have the emotional 602 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: bandwidth two buy into this idea that tells me that 603 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: I have to buy this product on Instagram to be 604 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: a more complete woman. You know, I think more women 605 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: are calling bs on this idea, especially younger women, right. 606 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: I will say so immediately after the New Year. The 607 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: first thing and what are the first and I think 608 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: you were superviral. Is this girl laying down in bed 609 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: in TikTok and saying you don't need this. Here are 610 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: the five products you don't need and then goes down 611 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: is of all the trends and that this is about you. 612 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: You're not going to use this, You're not gonna ever 613 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: see it again, don't buy it. You're only good Like 614 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: that was the first video I saw. It was like, 615 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: oh what is this? And the next one was the 616 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: girl who was like, hey, I have a bought every 617 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: single expensive hair product. These are both in Here are 618 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: the products you should go to go to CVS. This 619 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: is much better. Don't buy those expensive things. And I 620 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: was like, what is happening. Yeah, so that is a 621 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: great example of the influencing which is all over TikTok 622 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: right now. So what is the influencing, Well, basically, again, 623 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: it's exactly what it sounds like. Rather than trying to 624 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: convince you to buy something, it's telling you you don't 625 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: actually need to buy this. So creators will be telling 626 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: you like, you don't need another water bottle if you're me, 627 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: you don't need another notebook that you you know, are 628 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: not gonna use when you already have like twenty on yourself, 629 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: or telling you how different TikTok or social media famous 630 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: products are actually not worth the money, not worth it. 631 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: According to the newsletter Glossy, the hashtag de influencing has 632 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: twenty one point four million views and has increased in 633 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: popularity even in just the last week. They spoke to 634 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: a creator who goes by L Gray or Basic of course, 635 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: who pointed to the impact of the economy on consumer 636 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 1: spending and the ability or lack thereof to buy based 637 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: on influencer recommendations as one of the reasons why de 638 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: influencing is becoming so popular. L says, in the last 639 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: twelve months, we've seen an extreme slowdown in the global economy. 640 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: As we enter into a recession, people are starting to 641 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: feel the effects and are taking a closer look at 642 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: their spending and consumption. Many people have gotten fed up 643 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: with the constant barrage of micro trends and must have items, 644 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: especially as they take a closer look at their bank accounts. 645 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: And so, you know, I think that this creator is 646 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: probably onto something that you know, we started this conversation 647 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: today talking about the things that we and again myself 648 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: very guilty of this uh over consumed online in I 649 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,239 Speaker 1: think that de influencing is a response to some of 650 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: these over consumption habits that a lot of us just 651 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: sort of picked up during the pandemic and like just 652 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: kept having in our life. And now we're like, wait 653 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: a minute, is this actually a good idea? Is it 654 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: actually good that I, you know, we'll just click by 655 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: now and get something without really thinking about if I 656 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: need it, if I want it, Like, is that something 657 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: I actually truly need? Probably not, I will say, I 658 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: feel like and maybe it's just the side of TikTok 659 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm on because we know it is very curated. These 660 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: the influencers who are trying to help you save money 661 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: and tell you what it is and tell you what's working, 662 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: what's not working. It's almost the way of women supporting women, 663 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: or you know, the marginalized supporting the marginalized, Like you're 664 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: the one, I know this is aimed towards you. Typically 665 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: women are typically you know, those who are in like 666 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: really harsh places. So I'm going to help you and 667 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: tell you not to do this. And on top of that, 668 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: the same conversation about the gen z ears again I'm 669 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: still in all of them, is that they are all 670 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: about calling out the bs. So when they see an 671 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: influencers saying this is amazing, and then they start realizing 672 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: this person is all about the money. This person is 673 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: not genuinely doing things, kind of like the mascara, We're 674 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: going to call you out until you don't do this 675 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: again as a way to protect other consumers slash other women. 676 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: I love how you put that. I absolutely have seen 677 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: a million times that women and other marginalized people telling 678 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: each other the truth and leveling with each other and 679 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: breaking down for each other. That is more powerful than 680 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: a million dollar pr AT campaign, than a million well 681 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: paid like you know, pr agents working over time. Nothing 682 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: is more powerful than women sharing their truths with each other, 683 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: and that can like, yeah, it doesn't, It doesn't matter 684 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: what like expensive marketing firm that you've that you've contracted. 685 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: Women sharing each other's truths with each other will always 686 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: be more powerful. Absolutely, yeah. And I find it interesting 687 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: because it's those kind of like that same girl I 688 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: was talking about who was saying don't buy does, and 689 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: she's now gone viral. Being honest, being truthful and trying 690 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: to protect others has really built her audience, and she's 691 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: become an influencer slash the influencer and is now getting 692 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: credibility and may be able to go viral enough to 693 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: like start having her own outlets. Whether it is who knows. 694 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: I know several people from TikTok as well as YouTube, 695 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: but that's the whole thing. Have shows, get shows, get 696 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: brand deals, and get specific deals that are genuinely good 697 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: because they are honest, and it's building them up. So 698 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see how this the opposite of that 699 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: has grown them. That makes sense. It makes so much 700 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: sense that I've been I think it's I think it 701 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: marks a shift, and I think it's good. I think 702 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: that like we should question why the powers that be 703 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: are so quick to reward people who make their entire 704 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: thing about stuff that you should buy over consumption. We 705 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: could be instead building up honest platforms and platforms that 706 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: say like, well, you really aren't going to use this, 707 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: or you really don't need this. Like I love watching 708 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 1: on TikTok people who do closet clean out and they're like, 709 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: these are the top five things I like remove from 710 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: people's closets, or like the top ten things people don't 711 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: actually wear, because it might actually help create that shift 712 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: of being a little bit more in tuned and intentional 713 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: about what you buy. And I think that's really important. 714 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: I mean, like, it has so many implications, not you know, 715 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: not the least of which is the environmental impact of Like, 716 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, I had a little bit of a of 717 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: a fast fashion thing myself, like I would buy from 718 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: this brand she she in, where you know, it's like 719 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: it's so it's so cheap, but it like it looks 720 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: it looks like the fancier stuff, but it's so cheap. 721 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: Then it's like, well, you're like, actually it is one 722 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: of the biggest offenders a fast fashion that ends up 723 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, polluting our world. And it's like I don't 724 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: want to be I don't. I don't want, like, I 725 00:37:53,520 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: don't want my unexamined emotional need to translate to a 726 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: worst world for the next generation to come. And so 727 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: I really kind of solve the like need for me 728 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: to do a little bit of thinking and unpacking and 729 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: intention around my own consumption habits and what I was 730 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: trying to fill by buying things and the longer term 731 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: consequences for generations to come. I know that sounds like 732 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: a lot, but like you're gonna start somewhere right, No, 733 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: it is absolutely goes hand in hand again with the 734 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: new creators that the people who are getting big on 735 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: TikTok are those who are like, hey, you're doing these 736 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: things and it could be of course, this is a 737 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: whole different conversation about diagnosing and assuming everybody's one thing 738 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: or another, but it does call call out to be like, hey, 739 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: you have this reaction which could be costing you money, 740 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: costing your time because of a trauma, so you're focusing 741 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: on the wrong thing. Like I do love seeing them 742 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: correlate actual action to internalized trauma or uh maybe reasoning 743 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: however you want to say it. But it is encouraging 744 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: to see that there's more correlations that these influencers slash 745 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,439 Speaker 1: TikTok people are talking about out loud, So you start 746 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: considering the actual basis of trying consuming too much or 747 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: consuming way too fast, or not thinking about it. It's 748 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: both encouraging and kind of scary to see how quickly 749 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: this can flip, because we really did go from a 750 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 1: generation of we have to be perfect, we have to 751 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: look perfect, we have to be the Kardashians, uh, white 752 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: girl version of what I mean by that is the 753 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: skinny skinny version you you know, yeah, I know what 754 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking about um too. But to like coming into 755 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: loving your body, do things that are healthy for you, 756 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: do things that make you happy, do things that bring 757 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: you joy, and then going into and that comes to 758 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: having peace of mind. And this is how you do it. 759 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: And so it's kind of interesting to see how we 760 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: flip there. But we are at this cusp of like 761 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: it could flip again, and is it going to be 762 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: healthy or unhealthy? I think again, TikTok is being is 763 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: encouraging to me to see the creators that I'm seeing. 764 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: That's such a good point and I think, you know, 765 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: the bottom line of this is that you cannot consume 766 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: yourself into feeling like a complete version of yourself to 767 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: feeling whole. You know, I talked earlier about how I 768 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: get really kind of stuck on these like people who 769 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: are full time creatives or full time creative professionals and 770 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: and the way that that work gets done in their lives, 771 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,439 Speaker 1: and how it looks so good to me. It looks 772 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: like they're very together, like they've got lists, they look 773 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: very organized and very cozy and very peaceful. And that 774 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: clearly that is speaking that some kind of perception that 775 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: I have internally that I am not enough. There's something 776 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: I can buy that it's going to make me feel enough. 777 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: I have to just get there through self work, through growth, 778 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: through introspection. I I completely understand the need to like 779 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: just hit by now and like if I get everything 780 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: that this woman has in her house, maybe I'll get it, 781 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: but I won't. You can't consume your way into I guess, 782 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: feel good about what you've got, feeling good about who 783 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: you are, you know, feeling good at like feeling like 784 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: yourself and feeling like that's enough. There's just not a 785 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: product that's going to do that. It's gonna take It's 786 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: gonna take work, and so I think, you know that's 787 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: it's definitely easier to just buy a thing, and I, 788 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: boy do I keep trying, but I know I just 789 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: got some tease that I went viral. We won't talk 790 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: about that more. Oh, it's like this is I don't 791 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 1: want this to sound judging, because like who amongst us right, 792 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: like I am, we're all works on progress. But but 793 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: if you were interested in trying to unwork, unpack some 794 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: of this, like de influence yourself, first, I should say, like, 795 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: I'm not a professional. So if you if you are 796 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: someone listening and you think that you really might have 797 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: a true issue with like buying things and shopping that 798 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: you might need to talk to somebody about, you should 799 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: do that. Talk to a professional if you feel like 800 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: your issue rises beyond you know what we're talking about here. 801 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: But a couple of tips that might help folks de 802 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: influence themselves. My favorite sleeper tip is that if you 803 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 1: have an I phone or I think I think it 804 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: works on injury to um using your phone in gray scale. 805 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: My phone is in gray scale probably of the time. 806 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: You can go into your accessibility settings on your iPhone 807 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: and change your your phone to gray scale, and I 808 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: have it so that the little button on the side, 809 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: the power button, if I hit that three times, it 810 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: flips from gray scale to color. So if somebody sends 811 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: me a picture where it's like, oh, I need to 812 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 1: see this in color to get the context, I can easily, 813 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, flip it to color, flip it back. When 814 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: I tell you that, it makes things on your phone 815 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: looks so much less enticing and less appealing. And I 816 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,800 Speaker 1: can absolutely feel it when I'm looking at my phone 817 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: and color. I can feel the little synapses and neurons 818 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: going off in my brain that tell me by this, 819 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,879 Speaker 1: click that, look at that, read that, And it makes 820 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: the experience of using social media more boring, but in 821 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,439 Speaker 1: a good way. I'm just I feel a lot more 822 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: in control when all of these bright colors that are 823 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: literally designed by people who make lots and lots of 824 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: money to to like, you know, fire things in your 825 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: brain and to get you to be as as as 826 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: tuned in and it's plugged in as you can. And 827 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: so I'm a big fan of like trying to to 828 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: throw our wrench in this techno hacking that messes with 829 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,439 Speaker 1: all of our brains. So trying to put your phone 830 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: in gray scale. I love it. Another one is that 831 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 1: when you feel that twitch in your brain that says 832 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: I need this, don't click by right away, right like, 833 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: ask yourself, does this fill a legitimate need in my life? 834 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: If you're Samantha's partner? Is it just another vessel with 835 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: which to drink coffee or liquids? That do? I already 836 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 1: have a vessel or several vessels that make that need. 837 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: I throw it out and then like, notice your emotions, 838 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: like when you feel influenced, really asked, like, do I 839 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: feel the need to buy this because it is serving 840 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: an emotional need or feeling an emotional hole that I have? 841 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: And what's that about? You can really just start small, 842 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: just asking isn't that interesting? Be curious about the emotions 843 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,959 Speaker 1: that are sparked for you when you're using social media. 844 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: My therapist always says that judgment and curiosity cannot coexist. 845 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: And so rather than being like, oh, you just are 846 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: so bad with the money, you just throw money away, 847 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: You just cannot stop shopping online. That's judgment. And so 848 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: when you're judging the way that you feel, when you're 849 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: judging your emotions, you can't be curious about them. Curiosity 850 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: is how we get to some place better and like 851 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: move forward, and then lastly, learn to love what you 852 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: already have. You know, I spent so long chasing micro 853 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: trends and quick hit trends that when I look at 854 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: my closet, there are things in there that I love 855 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: that I don't even really know where they are. I 856 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: don't even have access to them or see them because 857 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: my closet is so full of the stuff that I 858 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: bought that I didn't even really think about, and so 859 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,439 Speaker 1: it makes it harder for me to love the things 860 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: that I actually do have that feel good and so 861 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: the things that I really do value in life. Because 862 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: there are plenty of things that I bought where I'm like, 863 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: oh that was I do not regret that choice. That 864 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: was a goodbye. It makes it harder to really appreciate 865 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: the things that are good byes and have them stand 866 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: out when you just buy so much crap that you 867 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: don't even really need right organized, because you will find 868 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: that thing you love that you forgot about for two. 869 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: If you do that, you shop your closet exactly. Yes, 870 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: during the pandemic, I remember there were a couple of 871 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: times where I was like I really really want this thing, 872 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,720 Speaker 1: and then I would look through my closet. I already 873 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: have that thing. Yes, I can't tell you how many 874 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: times it's happened. Where'm like, I'm like doing reruns, Like 875 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: I like, I'm already in reruns on my closet, like 876 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,280 Speaker 1: what is this? And then like, if you're me anyway, 877 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: I wear like the same T shirt like for an 878 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: entire week. So yeah, buying new clothes just to wear 879 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: your uniform every day? Like what are we doing? Right? Yes? Well, 880 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,280 Speaker 1: thank you as always for it for bringing this topic 881 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,279 Speaker 1: to us. It was very informative for me. I've not 882 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: heard of this. This is amazing. I love it. I 883 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: love it. I love it. Yes, where can the good 884 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 1: listeners find you? Well, you can always tune into my 885 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: podcast on this very same network. There are no girls 886 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: on the internet. You can follow me on Instagram at 887 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: Bridget Brian d C. I will not influence you. I 888 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: can't promise that I will never, but you know, like 889 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: we gotta eat. No, I'm just kidding. On Twitter at 890 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: Bridget Murray I love it. Yes, go go check that 891 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,400 Speaker 1: us out if you haven't already, listeners, thank you again 892 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 1: Bridget for coming. We love having you, can't wait to 893 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: have you again. Yes, yes uh. And the listeners I 894 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 1: who would like to contact us, you can or email. 895 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,879 Speaker 1: It's definitely a mom Stuff that I Hurt Me dot com. 896 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at moms to podcast, 897 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok what that stuff Mom Never 898 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: told You? Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, 899 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff When 900 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Protection by Heart Radio. For more podcast 901 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, you can check out the radio app 902 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, where you listen to your favorite shops m