1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. This is the best of with 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Klay Travis and Buck Sexton. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: We are joined now by David Swig, investigative journalist and author. 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: He's got a brand new book. I think you guys 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: are going to love it. I've already started to check 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: it out. We've got it at the home. Buck is 7 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: holding it up right now. An Abundance of caution, American schools, 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: the virus, and a story of bad decisions. David, thanks 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: for joining us in our New York City studio. I 10 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: know we've had you on before, and I think it's 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: fair to say that a lot of your reporting was 12 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 2: not necessarily well received by people on the left, and 13 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 2: that you are not some far right wing conspiracist conspiracy theorist. 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 2: You just did something wild. You looked at the data 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: and you were willing to write about what the data showed, 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: and you were as Buck and I have both been 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: profoundly angered and still angry over the failures of American 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: public policy as it pertains to COVID. What pushed you 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: to write this book and what do you hope that 20 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: people take from it? 21 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: That's it's a very good assessment. Yeah, in the beginning, 22 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 3: very early on. It seemed reasonable to me. I wasn't 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: knowledgeable about what was happening. I live right outside New 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 3: York City. Okay, the schools are closed, everything shut down. 25 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 3: But very quickly after that, I watched my kids just 26 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: wilting away in the kind of the gray light of 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 3: their chromebooks, sitting alone in their bedrooms, and I was like, 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 3: this isn't going to work for a long period of 29 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: time like this, this how can this be? And and 30 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: from there I just started kind of researching and digging in. 31 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: I was in the middle of writing a book and 32 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: a totally different topic at the time, but this was 33 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 3: just so crazy what was happening. I wanted to learn 34 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: more about what was going on, and very quickly I 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 3: started to speak with experts in Europe and elsewhere, because 36 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 3: you couldn't speak to them in the United States. And 37 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: it was very obvious that there was no reason for 38 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 3: the schools to remain closed. And that kind of set 39 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 3: me off on this path. And as you noted, this 40 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 3: very much was you know, what was termed a contrarian 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: view against the establishment, and it was certainly a challenging 42 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 3: position for me writing for mainstream publications. To get my 43 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 3: reporting in there, but I pulled it off, and I 44 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: think people kind of perceived me. I think it's true 45 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 3: as basically the only guy who's really able to do 46 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: that to write a number of pieces. They were all 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: backed by evidence showing why the establishment view was so wrong. 48 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 4: David, you said something I want to return to if 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 4: I can. You said that there was no reason for 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 4: the schools to be closed. There was no medical reason 51 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 4: for the schools to be closed. But I am sure 52 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 4: in the course of your research you found a whole 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 4: slew of non medical reasons or rationales or horse trading 54 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 4: that led to the continuation of public school closures. While 55 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 4: you know, I grew up in New York City, so 56 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 4: I know that system pretty well. Went to you know, 57 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 4: went to Catholic school there. There's private schools, parochial schools, 58 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 4: public schools. Parochial and private were open for business in 59 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 4: that in that fall after the initial pandemic, and yet 60 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 4: public schools were remote. Why. Yeah. 61 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things that's so remarkable, and 62 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 3: it's it's almost astonishing that this actually happened in real time, 63 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: and it's kind of one of the mean reasons of 64 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: why I wrote this book was to make sure that 65 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: what happened isn't just memory hold and the idea. As 66 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 3: you noted, kids were in school, in private schools, They 67 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: were in school in red districts and and in you know, 68 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 3: red states, while at the same time a kid could 69 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: be down the block in public school and he was 70 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: kept home while his best friend you know, in a 71 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 3: different area or went to private school, was in school 72 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: every day. So the irony to me is that on 73 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 3: the left, which traditionally perceives itself as being that the 74 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: heroes of the underprivileged in our society, they championed the 75 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 3: rules and the guidelines and the policies that actually harmed 76 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: underprivileged kids the most. And it's like one of the 77 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 3: most tragic ironies of the pandemic to me that this 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: was the result that you had people vigorously. It wasn't 79 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 3: just advocating, but as you know, anyone who disagreed was 80 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: immediately vilified. You were some right wing crank. You are 81 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 3: a piece of garbage if you disagreed with them. 82 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 4: Well, I mean I am a right wing crank, so 83 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 4: I can imagine what would be like for you being 84 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 4: a turncoat. 85 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was ben a dic Darnald here I was. 86 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 3: I was, you know, immediately cast aside. I was called 87 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: a murderer. You know, how could you do this? One 88 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 3: of the things that's so important that that that and 89 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 3: this is kind of like the original sin that I 90 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: talk about in the book. At the end of April, 91 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: in the beginning of May, in twenty twenty, schools began 92 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 3: to open in Europe. And it's not just like some 93 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: little school in Tibet somewhere with twelve kids. We're talking 94 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 3: about millions of kids. We're back in school. And the 95 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: European Union, the education ministers met in May and at 96 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: that meeting they said, we have observed no negative consequences 97 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 3: of opening our schools. They met a second time in June, 98 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: they had the same determination. No one reported this. I 99 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 3: ultimately reported it myself in June. But this is kind 100 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 3: of an astonishing thing. This wasn't, you know, a random blog. 101 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 3: This wasn't an obscure medical journal. This is the European 102 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 3: Union and their official announcement regarding opening schools where millions 103 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: of kids were in There was there was no negative consequence, 104 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: And as far as I am aware, no one in 105 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: the US media reported on this. Meeting that sort of 106 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 3: set things on the course, you know, where we were 107 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: just kind of never to come back from that. 108 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 2: Okay, So I want that's an important point. I want 109 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 2: you to expound upon something that happened that a lot 110 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: of people have forgotten in June of twenty twenty. And 111 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 2: I may get the official name wrong, but it was 112 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: like the American Association of Pediatricians or something like that 113 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: said schools needed to open back up and we could 114 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: do it safely. That was a big story in June. 115 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: And then Randy Winegarden and the American Federation of Teachers 116 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: somehow kind of got into their universe and they ended 117 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 2: up you probably, I'm sure it's in the book. 118 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 5: It is. 119 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: They ended up reversing their guidance. What do you think 120 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: now when you see Randy Winegarden going around on show saying, oh, 121 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: I never said that I wanted schools to be shut down. 122 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: What does the evidence show us? And how important was 123 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: it from a science perspective for those pediatricians? And I 124 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 2: remember their argument being, David correct me if I'm wrong 125 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: that while the virus wasn't going to go away, kids 126 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 2: had far more to gain by being in school than 127 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: they did to fear from the virus. That was June 128 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, and then they completely reversed themselves under 129 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: political pressure. 130 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: So what happened was the American Academy of Pediatrics put 131 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: out a guidance that was unambiguous. It said, we've got 132 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: to get kids in school. Don't even worry about six 133 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: feet of distancing. If you can do it, great, but 134 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: if you can't, don't worry. Just three feet is fine, whatever, 135 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: just get the kids in the building. Shortly thereafter, Donald 136 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: Trump tweeted we must open schools in the fall, all 137 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: caps with a bunch of exclamation points. Within days, the 138 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 3: American Academy of Pediatrics put out a new statement. Gone 139 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: was any mention of don't worry about distancing. Gone was 140 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 3: the idea of get kids in school no matter what. 141 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: And instead they mentioned money. It's really important for a 142 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: lot of money to flow to schools. And then the 143 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: second important thing about that revised statement was who authored it. 144 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: And it wasn't just the American Academy of pediac It 145 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: was co authored with the two largest teachers unions in 146 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: the country. It was so stark what happened that even 147 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: NPR reported on this. But I got to tell you, 148 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 3: this is part of a larger thing. And I talk 149 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 3: about this a lot in the book, where I show 150 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: this behind the scenes thing that was going on. So 151 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 3: as I started writing these articles challenging the sort of 152 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: dogma and the establishment view, people started reaching out to 153 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 3: me from around the country, parents, regular people, but also 154 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: a lot of doctors. And these are doctors, not just 155 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: some suburban pediatrician, but people who are at elite institutions, 156 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 3: are top university hospitals in the country. And they were saying, Hey, 157 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: thank you so much for writing this. I just want 158 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 3: you to know. I think it's terrible what's happening with kids. 159 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 3: I think these policies for keeping schools closed and these 160 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: mask mandates, there isn't good evidence behind this. Schools are 161 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 3: open in Europe, all these things. And they said, but 162 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: all of this has to be off the record because 163 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: they were afraid to be cast out by their peers, 164 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: or in many instances they were explicitly told and I 165 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 3: have examples of this in the book. They were explicitly 166 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 3: told by their superiors, by the administrators at their hospitals, 167 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: do not say anything about this. So I had this 168 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: bizarre experience where I'm observing this narrative that's going on 169 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 3: in the culture, this sort of manufactured consensus that wasn't real. 170 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: And I had this very lonely, strange experience where I'm 171 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 3: getting all these text messages and emails and I'm talking 172 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 3: with all these doctors who are disagreeing with this, but 173 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 3: the dissent was silent. I wasn't allowed to talk about it, 174 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: and they were too afraid or weren't allowed to speak 175 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 3: about it themselves. So my book gives what I hope 176 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: is this deep, behind the scenes account of what actually 177 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: happened during the pandemic, not the narrative that we were 178 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 3: all fed. And I'm hoping that when people finish reading 179 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,599 Speaker 3: this that they're going to be armed with enough information 180 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 3: so they can actually understand and see how the gears 181 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: turn within the legacy media and how they turned where 182 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 3: they were working in conjunction with different institutions of power. 183 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 3: So it's not just for a pandemic, but for when 184 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: any other crisis happens that your listeners and they're like, oh, 185 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 3: I read about that in Swike's book. I see exactly 186 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 3: what's happening. 187 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: Now you're listening to the best of Clay Travis, and 188 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton. 189 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 4: We're speaking to David's wag. The book is an abundance 190 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 4: of caution. I have my copy in my hands here. 191 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 4: American Schools, the virus, and a story of bad decisions. 192 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 4: One of the reason we want to have you on, David 193 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 4: is we'd like to reward people who were right when 194 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 4: it mattered and did good work when it mattered on 195 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 4: this issue. So congrats on the book, and we hope 196 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 4: people will we'll pick up a copy because I think 197 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 4: it's very important. Right, it's a lot easier for people 198 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 4: to jump on the bandwagon now, but we know that 199 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 4: you were early on this and you got heat to 200 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 4: that end. Just one. I mean, Clay might have a 201 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 4: question for you in closing. I don't know if you're 202 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 4: a sports fan, you're like the SEC or anything, but 203 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 4: that's always a possibility here at the end too. But 204 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 4: if you were to walk around right now, you know, 205 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 4: sort of tell us what it's like on the other 206 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 4: side of it, because they'll still talk to you. They 207 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 4: won't talk to us that much. Some of them listened 208 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 4: to the show because it is so entertaining, But generally speaking, 209 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 4: we have a center to write audience, if you walked 210 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 4: around Park Slope or you walked around I don't know, 211 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 4: you know, Santa Monica, and just talk to people who 212 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 4: watch I don't know CNN read the New York Times 213 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 4: at the LA Times and said, hey, guys, the next 214 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 4: time around, we're we're all clear that we don't shut 215 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 4: down the schools for this, right? Are they clear on that? 216 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 3: I think there's been a softening, So I think that's 217 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 3: the good news. The bad news is is that there 218 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: is this revisionist history. There's this narrative that they've been pushing, 219 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 3: which is in the beginning, it was we have to 220 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 3: close schools, we have to do all this stuff. Eventually, 221 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: when it was so obvious that that wasn't beneficial, it 222 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 3: was so obvious this was only causing harm, then they shifted. 223 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 3: Then the narrative was, well, this is regrettable, but it 224 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: was an understandable thing. This was a fog of war decision. 225 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: It was chaos. We did the best we could. And 226 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 3: what I show in the book over and over is 227 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 3: that information was known in real time, and that example 228 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 3: about the European Union is just one of many. They 229 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 3: knew what was happening. It was ignored or it was dismissed. 230 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 3: So when you asked me that question, my fear is 231 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 3: that when the next crisis happens and it doesn't have 232 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: to be a pandemic, that once again that there's this 233 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 3: excuse of we're building the plane as we fly it. 234 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: We don't know. 235 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 3: Sorry, we're doing the best we can. Don't accept it. 236 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 3: It's not true. Demand evidence, And that's what my book 237 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: is about at its core, is you can't say stuff 238 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 3: without providing evidence and over and over, and I cite 239 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 3: these long examples in the New York Times and all 240 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 3: these other media outlets. They kept quoting all these experts 241 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: saying things, but they didn't provide any evidence. They never 242 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 3: challenged them. Journalists shirked their core duty, which was to 243 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: actually question the statements by those in power. So I'm 244 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 3: hoping my book will act as a counter as a corrective, 245 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 3: as this is an actual, real history of what happened, 246 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 3: and it works as its own guidebook to help arm 247 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 3: people to understand how the gears turn behind the scenes, 248 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 3: so we can try to prevent something like this from 249 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 3: happening again. 250 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: Last question, you came from the left and bucks right. 251 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: I'm just curious from your perspective, we hope that the 252 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: historic record twenty forty years, sixty years from now is 253 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: going to be a worthy lesson. How much less faith 254 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: do you personally have in the so called legacy media 255 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: than you did before COVID happened. So David Zuig twenty 256 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: nineteen compared to David Zwig twenty twenty five, how are 257 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: you different? 258 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: I would say, if I may not just the legacy media, 259 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 3: but the entire left establishment, if you will, my experience 260 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 3: during the pandemic and what I observed and what I 261 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 3: experienced as a journalist actually chasing down the evidence and 262 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: the facts has completely shattered my entire worldview that I had. 263 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: I was a smug liberal. I've always been an independent 264 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 3: I was not like a staunch democrat, So I was 265 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: an independent minded person, but I tended to believe in 266 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: these institutions, and what I observed and experienced was the 267 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: absolute failure and these people who were the good guys. 268 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 3: I've recount some stuff in the book about I had 269 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 3: evidence from Arizona, the state itself, which differed from a 270 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 3: study that the CDC put out, and when I contacted 271 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: the CDC, I said, Hey, I have evidence that I 272 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: have data that's differing from what you have in your study, 273 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 3: and I knew what they had was wrong because I 274 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: had the official data, and their response to me was, 275 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 3: we look through it, there are no errors. When you 276 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 3: can't come back from something like that, and like I 277 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 3: remember just like kind of hunched over with like a 278 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: migraine that night talking to my wife. So to answer 279 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 3: your question, I just feel entirely differently about how the 280 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 3: world works, and you just can't recover from something like 281 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: that when you know, you would think something like the 282 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: NSA or Defense Department might pull some type of BS 283 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 3: on that this was a health department, and the CDC 284 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: they were lying through their teeth right to me in 285 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: email saying there were no errors when I knew they 286 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: knew that I knew, and I knew that they knew 287 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: that I knew that this was complete BS and they 288 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: didn't care. You can't recover from something like that. So 289 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: my book is filled with kind of that type of 290 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: stuff where I this was this was almost like a 291 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: cathartic endeavor where I had to set the record straight 292 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 3: so people and hopefully not just your audience, though I 293 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: know they're going to be receptive I think, but I'm 294 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: hoping that I can persuade some independent minded people as well. 295 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 3: That's my real goal. It is like to help people 296 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 3: see what's really going on. 297 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 4: David's wag everybody in abundance of caution. David, thank you 298 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 4: so much. 299 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: You're enjoying the Best of program with Clay Travis and 300 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton. 301 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 4: We're gonna take a few moments to chat with our 302 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 4: friend Dana Perino of Frock Fox News. You all know her. 303 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 4: She's got a book that just came out this week. 304 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 4: I wish someone had told me the best advice for 305 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 4: building a great career and a meaningful life. And perhaps 306 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 4: we'll even get her to weigh in on flutes versus 307 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 4: fifes and other fascinating conversations today on the show. Dana, 308 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 4: thank you so much for being here. 309 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 5: Hey, I thought you were having me on to talk 310 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 5: about the NFL draft. 311 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 4: Oh no, that's my data, that's my area of expertise. 312 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 4: Maybe you and I can do a whole segment where 313 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 4: we discussed the draft. Because Clay had to tell me 314 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 4: that this was even happening, so I had zero idea, 315 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 4: but nowally I love the idea. 316 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: Dana read sports is one of my favorite parts of 317 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: Fox News. I love the idea of Dana and Buck 318 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: try to figure out sports related issues, like you guys 319 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: just with no help, just come together and try to 320 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: determine some sports related conclusion. 321 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 5: I got you a weekend. I really loved the I 322 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 5: love watching the NFL Draft because I liked it watching 323 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 5: all the people, like in the families and like their excitement. 324 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 5: I think that's so fun and why tweeting the draft 325 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 5: is some one of my favorite things to do. So 326 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 5: I'm gonna make sure I'm doing that tonight. Like who 327 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 5: wouldn't want to? Like? Who wouldn't want to live in Arizona? 328 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 5: That sounds fun. I got cute uniforms too. 329 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 4: Yes, I'll just tell you I've actually never seen the draft, 330 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 4: so I think we've established that Dana's knowledge Clay of 331 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 4: this exeed mind substantially. I've never watched an NFL draft 332 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 4: in my life, so maybe tonight will be my first time. 333 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 4: Dana tell us about about the book a little bit here. 334 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 4: I mean, you have a You've had a huge career. 335 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 4: You were White House Press secretary under Bush. Now you're 336 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 4: at the five Fox doing all this amazing stuff. What's 337 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 4: the book? Telling everybody out there. 338 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 5: So it's called I Wish someone had told me the 339 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 5: best advice for building a great career and a meaningful life. 340 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 5: And I've done a book before called everything Will Be Okay. 341 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 5: And actually, I remember you all had just started your 342 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 5: show together, and when that book came out, you had 343 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 5: me on and it was such a fun conversation. I 344 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 5: remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that. 345 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 5: And that book was really targeted to young women going 346 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 5: through their quarter life crisis. This book is post COVID 347 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 5: and it is not geared just to young women. I 348 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 5: made it much more broad based and all also because 349 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 5: I have advanced in years since when I left the 350 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 5: White House, a lot of people that I mentored back 351 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 5: then are still coming to me for advice, and they've 352 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 5: become executives, moms and dads. They are looking for the 353 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 5: next step in their life. They're making big career transitions. 354 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 5: And so I realized I didn't have all the answers myself. 355 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 5: I interviewed over forty people, many the people here at 356 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 5: Fox News and like Guttfeld, Harold Ford, Junior, Jesse Waters, 357 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 5: Sandra Smith, Jimmy Fayala, you name it. They're in here, 358 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 5: but also like my college roommate, my husband, and Dirk 359 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 5: s Bentley, That's where I was thinking of. Of course, 360 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 5: I think of Nashville, and I mean Clay Travis, Nashville, 361 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 5: Dirk Spentley to talk to them everything from how to start, 362 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 5: how to get your foot in the door, how to 363 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 5: get a promotion, how to be intentional with your time 364 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 5: and a work life balance. And I know Buck your 365 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 5: new dad, and sure all of this is I'm sure 366 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 5: you'll be able to write a book of advice for 367 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: dads anytime soon. 368 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 4: Oh would I would love that. But I have to 369 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: tell you, Dana, as I'm talking to you. It's always 370 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 4: reassuring when I find out that my wife is actually 371 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 4: listening to the show, and she texted me and says, 372 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 4: make sure you tell Dana that I got a lot 373 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 4: out of her book Everything will Be Okay. So Carrie 374 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 4: Sexton is a fan of book one and now will 375 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 4: be a fan of your most recent book. 376 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 5: I am sure your your wife is so lovely. Well 377 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 5: you know I love hearing that. And one thing I 378 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 5: did find out, guys, is when Everything will be Okay 379 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 5: came out. It was a big success. Everybody loved it. 380 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 5: But they were younger guys. Especially around here at Fox, 381 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 5: We're like, what about one for us? And there's an 382 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 5: insatiable need of people, young people who they really want 383 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 5: to be successful, and they're just looking for us to 384 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 5: give them the blueprint, and we don't have the answers. 385 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 5: Of course, one of the best things that I've learned 386 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 5: and that I could pass on is that I really 387 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 5: worried away my twenties for no reason. I was so 388 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 5: trying to plan out my life, and everything that happened 389 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 5: great in my life is not because I planned it. 390 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 5: And if you aren't educated American, you already won life's 391 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 5: great lottery. And so all you have to decide is 392 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 5: how hard do you want to work? 393 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: I think that's so well said, and thanks for coming on, Dana. 394 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 2: I had a professor at Vanderbilt Law School, Larry Soderquist, 395 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: who has since passed, but he was an incredible business 396 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: professor and his big thing to us when we were 397 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 2: in law school. And I'm sure there's some kids out 398 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 2: there that are going to grad school or you're going 399 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: to take the bar exam soon coming up this summer, 400 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 2: and he said, you are already set. He said, you 401 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 2: guys have done the hard work of getting into law school. 402 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 2: He said. The question you have to decide going forward 403 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,239 Speaker 2: with your legal careers is how do you want to 404 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: work this law degree? He said, But you're never going 405 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 2: to be homeless, you're never going to be hungry. The 406 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: big concerns in life you have taken care of, and 407 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: you should think about that more than you do all 408 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: of you. I thought that perspective was super important, and 409 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: I think it reflects upon what you said, where there 410 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 2: are a lot of kids out there in their twenties. 411 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: They get out of school, they get out of grad school, 412 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: they have these quarter like crises I had won myself, 413 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 2: and they wonder what else is out there? And I 414 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: think this is an important lesson that you're trying to 415 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: teach them, is that one you're still going to be 416 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 2: trying to figure out a lot of things when you're 417 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: in your thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties. Nobody has all 418 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: the answers, but you're probably going to be okay. 419 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 5: Oh absolutely. And one of my favorite mentors was President Bush, 420 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 5: and I remember he would talk about the importance of 421 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 5: not being so risk averse, that America was built on 422 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 5: people willing to take a risk and to be pioneers. 423 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 5: And I think about Elon Musk right, like he takes 424 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 5: risks all the time, like landing rockets on chopsticks. But 425 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 5: because he was able to, he was willing to take 426 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 5: a risk, you can get great reward. And I remember 427 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 5: I was really hesitant to start my own business after 428 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 5: I left the White House because I had a million 429 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 5: reasons that were stupid really looking back. And the President 430 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 5: said to me, ask yourself this, what is the worst 431 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 5: thing that could happen to you if it fails? So 432 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 5: I saw hemden had for a minute and he said, 433 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 5: so you're telling me the worst thing that could happen 434 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 5: to you? An educated American woman who was the White 435 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 5: House Press secretary start throwing this, Say it fails, and 436 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 5: the worst thing you have to do is go back 437 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 5: and work for another PR firm. That's the worst thing. 438 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 5: And he said, I'm not persuaded by that. And that's 439 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 5: really helpful to me. I learned from doctor Samantha Boordman. 440 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 5: When people are dealing with anxiety, and of course of 441 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 5: course we all do, and also we're surrounded by young 442 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 5: people who have a lot of it, you ask yourself, 443 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 5: what's the worst thing that could happen, and what's the 444 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 5: best thing that could happen. And usually what happens is 445 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 5: somewhere in the middle, and it can calm you down 446 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 5: pretty quickly. 447 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 4: Yes, I think there's an old quote from one of 448 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 4: the great Stoics that we suffer more in imagination than reality. 449 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 4: It might have been Seneca, or it's one of them. 450 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 4: So it's a version. You know, Dane is updating it 451 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 4: for the twenty first century. But this is very true. 452 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 5: Jeffie Waters when I interviewed him for this book. Jesse 453 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 5: Waters talks about the Stoics as well in this book. 454 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 4: Well, Jesse Waters and I are apparently brothers from another mother. 455 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 4: I had no idea fun fact. Jesse doesn't even know this, 456 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 4: but maybe he was in I think it was like 457 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 4: an English one oh one class at Trinity College with 458 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 4: my older brother at one point, to give your sense 459 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 4: to what a small world it was. Then Mason transferred 460 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 4: went to a different school. But yes, Jesse and I 461 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 4: have give the Yeah, Jesse and I have, and ship's passing. 462 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 4: Then Mason assures me he might have popped his collar, 463 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: but he was a very nice guy. But yes, we've 464 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 4: got Dana Perino with us right now, and she's got 465 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 4: a new book out which you guys should all check out, 466 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 4: and her books have been huge successes up to this point. 467 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 4: So what's uh, You know, if you're if you're looking 468 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 4: now for the the people out there who are going 469 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 4: to be grabbing this book, if there's one thing that 470 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 4: you want them to really take out of it today, 471 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 4: or rather one thing that they would read and you 472 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 4: hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible, Dan, 473 00:23:59,440 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 4: And what would that be? 474 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 5: Well, I think we've covered a lot of it, and 475 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 5: especially what I'm hoping is that when people read this, 476 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 5: they will realize they don't need to worry as much. 477 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 5: One of the reasons that you seek out a book 478 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 5: like this is because you're trying to get some answers 479 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 5: the things that are bothering you. So I'm hoping that 480 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 5: that is true. But I would also pass on this advice. 481 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 5: Most of the mentees that come to see me, they 482 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 5: are definitely interested in professional guidance, but they also are 483 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 5: looking for meaningful personal lives. They would love to meet somebody, 484 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 5: they want to get married, they want to have families, 485 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 5: and they want to find a work life balance. That 486 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 5: will allow them to have a great, wonderful, meaningful life. 487 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 5: And my experience was unusual. I met my husband on 488 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 5: an airplane twenty eight years ago. There's a million reasons 489 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 5: why we might not have met, or that we could 490 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 5: have talked ourselves out of it, But choosing to be 491 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 5: loved is not a career limiting decision. It actually made 492 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 5: all the difference for me. And I'm hoping that young 493 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 5: people can take that away and realize that investing in 494 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 5: yourself in a commitment is a great way to enhance 495 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 5: your life and your career. 496 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 4: I got a wait, I got a reverse for a second. Here, 497 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 4: take us into this. This is a this is a 498 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 4: great story of romance. You met your husband on a plane, Like, 499 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 4: what was the first move? 500 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 2: Here? 501 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 4: Did he spill his his peanuts or his Seltzer and 502 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 4: your lap? 503 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 5: Like? 504 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 4: How did he get this going? 505 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 3: Well? 506 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 5: Okay, so it was nineteen ninety seven, So let's go 507 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 5: on the way way back machine. Nobody had phones, nobody 508 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 5: had air pods. Okay. So I was carrying a book, 509 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 5: I was working for a congressman. I was coming back 510 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 5: from washing from Denver, going Denver, Chicago, Chicago, DC. And 511 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 5: I was on an American Airlines flight. I almost missed 512 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 5: the plane because it was my first time driving out 513 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 5: to the New Denver International Airport, which might as well 514 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 5: be in Kansas. 515 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 2: It's so far away it's accurate. 516 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 5: And so the last two people to get on the 517 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 5: plane were myself and this guy. And I sat down 518 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 5: in the window seat and he said, would you like 519 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 5: me to put your bag up above? British accent? 520 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 4: Strong moves, A strong move, Yeah. 521 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 5: The accents. Accents are helpful, no wedding ring handsome. And 522 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 5: he had a book called The Tailor of Panama by 523 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 5: John McCarey. I said, oh, I said, do you like 524 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 5: that book? So we started talking about books and for 525 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 5: two and a half hours. We talked for a long time. 526 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 5: I remember asking him what do people in Europe think 527 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 5: about Bill Clinton? And he said they think he's a clown. 528 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, wow, we're going to get 529 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 5: along great. But then I remember looking at the window 530 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 5: and saying a prayer to God that I know I 531 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 5: asked you to help me find someone. But he's much 532 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 5: older than me. He lives in England. I had my 533 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 5: career is on the right track. I didn't think I 534 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 5: would meet somebody on an airplane. But I couldn't eat, sleep, drink, 535 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 5: concentrate anything after I met him, and about six weeks 536 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 5: later we had our first date when he was back 537 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 5: in the States in New Orleans. And six months later 538 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 5: I moved to England twenty eight years ago. 539 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: Wow, what was the reaction when you told people, I'm 540 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 2: just kind of curious. Hey, I'm going to move to England. 541 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 2: I met a guy on an airplane. 542 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 5: Okay, so you hit the nail on the head of 543 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 5: one of the reasons I wrote the book because one 544 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 5: of the things I worried about in my twenties was 545 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 5: how am I going to get a job, How will 546 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 5: I succeed? How will I pay my bills? Then? How 547 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 5: am I going to meet somebody? How am I going 548 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 5: to meet? Then? What are people going to think about 549 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 5: me for wanting to be with this man who is 550 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 5: much older than me, lives in England, and that I'm 551 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 5: leaving my job and career to go live in England, 552 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 5: and who knows what's going to happen to me? Yeah, 553 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 5: And I worried myself to death. And this a woman 554 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 5: of a family friend that don't give up on this 555 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 5: chance to be loved and the data. 556 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 4: One superpower that I've learned is to not care what 557 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 4: people think who don't matter to you. 558 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 5: But you know what it's so interesting is that we 559 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 5: have to learn this lesson over and over again, because 560 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 5: your parents teach you that when you're young, or maybe 561 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 5: you learn it in Sunday school or from a teacher 562 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 5: or from other friends. And all of these young people 563 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 5: are always thinking about what others are thinking about them 564 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 5: and how they're being judged. And what I remind them 565 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 5: is that actually we all just think about ourselves all 566 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 5: the time. Somebody has time to think about you. 567 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 2: And by the way, especially in a social media age, 568 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 2: people are even more obsessed about how they're being perceived 569 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 2: than they would have been in the past. 570 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 4: Quickly, wait, can I ask her a question, Dana, do 571 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 4: you think that? Do you think that women? I'm putting 572 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 4: you on the hot seat a little bit here? Everybody 573 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 4: loves data, Pirno, everyone's gonna love this book. You're on 574 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 4: the hot seat. Now. Do women in this era care 575 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 4: too much about men's height? 576 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 5: Gosh, you know, I am barely I'm not even quite 577 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 5: five foot one, so even Gtzald is a little tall 578 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 5: to me. So just kidding. He is not tall to me? 579 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 5: Do women care too much about height? I mean maybe, 580 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 5: I mean I know that it's sort of awkward. It 581 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 5: depends like, don't you don't see a lot of how tall. 582 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 4: Is your husband? Dana? How tall is your husband? 583 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 5: Let's just let's just go through this about I would 584 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 5: say five to ten, okay, like. 585 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 4: He's like tall but not you know, you didn't date 586 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 4: like you're not a five to one lady who married 587 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 4: a six foot five guy. We've had some conversations on 588 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 4: the show recently about this. 589 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 5: He's tall for someone from Scotland. 590 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 4: How about that fair enough? 591 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 5: Yeah? 592 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: I don't even know if that's just a shot at 593 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: Scottish men. By the way, that you just I wouldn't 594 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: have been tall for someone from Scottish men are short? 595 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: Is this true? Yeah? 596 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: Yeah? 597 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: The book, by the way, is fabulous. I have met 598 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: her husband. He is fabulous. Dana has taken us out. 599 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 5: Show. 600 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 2: He is great, he is fantastic. Well, hey, by the way, 601 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: you're listening to a guy who may get canceled at 602 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 2: any moment. No idea what might happen from one second 603 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: to the next week. I wish someone one had told 604 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 2: go ahead and Dana Perino, go buy it. You're gonna 605 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 2: like it. Dana. We appreciate the time you do. Fantastic work. Tilba, 606 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: we said. 607 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 4: High thank you. Same to you, Clay. I was struck 608 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 4: by something as we're talking to Dana. Who who? It 609 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 4: is true? Everybody My wife loves Dana. Everybody loves Dana. 610 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 4: Her book is fantastic. I'm sure the last book was fantastic. 611 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 4: I have a book title for you for your next book, 612 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 4: because we know the topic. I have a title for you. 613 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 4: Do you want me to tell you the title now 614 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 4: or when we come back. I want to hear your 615 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 4: title when we come back. We've got a title for 616 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 4: the book and it's probably not going to surprise you, 617 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 4: but I'm curious if your title is somewhat similar to 618 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 4: the title. 619 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: We got an idea. 620 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 4: Now that you're telling me this, I feel like it 621 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 4: could be. But you have Just to be clear, Clay 622 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 4: has not told me the title of his forthcoming book. 623 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 4: I have a title in mind for him, and I 624 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 4: think some of you are really going to like it. 625 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 4: So that's what we call it. Ease in the business. Uh, 626 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 4: if you switch, is it me or you who's supposed 627 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 4: to know? It's me. It's me. 628 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: Oh, I blew it. 629 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 4: Sorry, the leaf flowers are throwing you off, buddy, I 630 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 4: need something. 631 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 2: The leaf blowers just track me everywhere. I hate those guys. 632 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: You are listening to the best of Clay Travis and 633 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton. 634 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 2: Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. A little 635 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: bit of a quick turn here. By the way, I 636 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: want to say, Dana Perino maybe the nicest person on 637 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: air at Fox News, but if she had to get 638 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: into a royal rumble with the other nicest person in 639 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: my experience, Shannon Breem versus Dana Perino for the title 640 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: of nicest person on the air at Fox News would 641 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 2: be like the Jordan Lebron debate of the Fox News era. 642 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: But they are the two nicest people on the planet, 643 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: I would. 644 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 4: I would concur they're two of the nicest people I've 645 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 4: come across in this in this business and just in general. 646 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 4: But Clay, your book is going to be about masculinity 647 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 4: in America today. I think your book title should be 648 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 4: the First Amendment. And dudes, that's good. 649 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: You are going to be It's the book title is 650 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: going to be buck Balls b A L LS how 651 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: Trump one menu, and all it has on the cover 652 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 2: is just two big basketballs. One hundred percent. This is 653 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 2: this is what, this is what. Yes, you're all very welcome. 654 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 2: That is Buck's title is very good, but the title 655 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 2: of my book is legitimately just balls B A L 656 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: L s and uh yeah, it's gonna be fun.