Speaker 1: Novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and content
Speaker 1: that some listeners might find distressing. Previously, on deliver Us
Speaker 1: from Herbal, Hervill thought that if he got rid of Joel,
Speaker 1: he could just move in and take leadership with Joel's people. Well,
Speaker 1: it didn't work. That's the problem. The prophecy said this,
Speaker 1: bigs of a lake will run in blood after they've
Speaker 1: heard my message. That's when the Labarns showed up and
Speaker 1: things got pretty rough. After that, there was a string
Speaker 1: of threats that if he didn't repent and follow the
Speaker 1: true prophet, he was going to die. Herbal was their leader.
Speaker 1: They thought they were going to go out and save
Speaker 1: the world. I called my mother. She said, honey, here
Speaker 1: Daddy's spin shop. And I said he is a dad
Speaker 1: and she said, yes, She's ted. As long as I
Speaker 1: can remember, I've wanted to be a writer, to tell
Speaker 1: stories of other people's lives, to take readers on a
Speaker 1: journey into a world they might otherwise never visit. My
Speaker 1: mom even has this photo of me as a baby
Speaker 1: holding a pencil ready to write. I grew up sixty
Speaker 1: miles south of Reno, Nevada, near the Carson River. At
Speaker 1: the end of what's called the forty mile Desert. When
Speaker 1: I was little, my mom and I we'd go into
Speaker 1: town to buy these big rolls of newsprint, and so
Speaker 1: while my brothers were outside catching lizards under stage brush,
Speaker 1: I was inside making my own newspapers from articles cut
Speaker 1: out of magazines. It helped me connect with the outside world,
Speaker 1: which seemed distant, busy, chaotic, fascinating. And when I look back,
Speaker 1: many of the stories I was drawn to early in
Speaker 1: my career without even realizing, were stories where I was
Speaker 1: trying to do something for myself to figure out my
Speaker 1: place in Mormonism and the place of faith in the
Speaker 1: broader world. I guess I'm still trying to figure that out.
Speaker 1: It's one reason I'm doing this podcast. Journalism and faith
Speaker 1: can be fundamentally at odds, because journalism, when done right,
Speaker 1: is a search for truth no matter where it leads you.
Speaker 1: And in my case, reporting on stories like this one,
Speaker 1: it led me further away from my faith, away from Mormonism.
Speaker 1: Now that's not the case for everyone. In fact, for
Speaker 1: some journalists I've met, their faith inspires them. It's the
Speaker 1: animating force and the work they do. It was good,
Speaker 1: said Jester Jesse j these days. Journalist del van Ada
Speaker 1: lives in a big colonial style house in the suburbs
Speaker 1: of Washington, d C. Home. Dale has had quite the
Speaker 1: career as a journalist, most of it at the Washington Post.
Speaker 1: He broke the Iran Contra scandal back in the eighties.
Speaker 1: He's interviewed six presidents. He was nominated for the Pulzer
Speaker 1: Prize five times. I got some stuff you might be interested.
Speaker 1: You want to see. Yeah, it's a bright day in September.
Speaker 1: Dale takes me away down into his basement to see
Speaker 1: some mementos from that career, taking millions of readers on
Speaker 1: journeys into worlds they otherwise might never visit. That dream
Speaker 1: I had as a kid. This is the Internet with Reagan,
Speaker 1: and he begged me not to run the story. He
Speaker 1: shows me souvenirs from war reporting constant gunfire the whole
Speaker 1: time you're there, because contraband, from trips to the Middle East. Yes,
Speaker 1: Sir a Fat gave me a live cluster bomb. I'm
Speaker 1: presuming he didn't know what it was, and I brought
Speaker 1: it back to the US. A picture of him headed
Speaker 1: to the South Pole from Alaska. That's what they used
Speaker 1: for clubs. That's the lowest penis bone. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: lot to carry around. And then right at the back,
Speaker 1: behind some boxes, a framed poster behind glass of a
Speaker 1: movie star picture, the unlikely spark that started it all.
Speaker 1: I had early decided that writing was a good thing
Speaker 1: because I wrote to the up and coming star Olivia Hussey.
Speaker 1: She said that was the most beautiful letter she had
Speaker 1: ever gotten, and uh, we dated. So I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't that great looking a guy, And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: at writing him, bring me someone like her. This is
Speaker 1: a good thing to do. So I became editor of
Speaker 1: my high school. When Dale says he isn't a great
Speaker 1: looking guy, what he's saying is he's short. He's a hobbit,
Speaker 1: like a modern day Bilbo back in. He's got an
Speaker 1: impish grin. His eyes twinkle with the same delight or mischief,
Speaker 1: like a guy about to go on a grand adventure
Speaker 1: in Spain. You immediately like him. Trust him, let your
Speaker 1: guard down, and spill your secrets all right now you
Speaker 1: can strike the set. I was speak no more forever.
Speaker 1: From the start, Dell got his kicks, challenging the powers
Speaker 1: that be. That was his mission. It's what makes him
Speaker 1: such a great reporter, but when it came to irvill
Speaker 1: Le Baron, it's also what nearly got him killed. Dale's
Speaker 1: career started out in the same place mind did, both Mormons,
Speaker 1: both studying journalism at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah.
Speaker 1: I remember walking into that campus paper news room. It
Speaker 1: was humming with energy and intensity. It felt so important, momentous.
Speaker 1: By nineteen seventy seven, Dell was working at the Desiret News,
Speaker 1: one of two Salt Lake City dailies. That's actually where
Speaker 1: I worked today. Back then, the newsroom looked like your
Speaker 1: classic TV set newsroom, open plan, reporters with rolled up sleeves,
Speaker 1: hunched over typewriters, editors yelling across the room about a
Speaker 1: blown deadline, the police scanner beeping and squawking. In the
Speaker 1: spring of seventy seven, Dale was a young reporter. He
Speaker 1: had just been appointed to lead a new investigative team,
Speaker 1: and his life was about to change forever. It started
Speaker 1: with a man from his local ward that's what Mormons
Speaker 1: call a parish. He approached Dale at his home with
Speaker 1: a tip. He had lost his wife and his daughter
Speaker 1: to polygamy. Somebody had converted them and they disappeared, and
Speaker 1: he was trying to find him, sort of like the
Speaker 1: experienced Glenchion off Hat when the Lebarons turned his life
Speaker 1: upside down and took his family away to Mexico, Only
Speaker 1: this guy didn't even know where his family had gone.
Speaker 1: He was trying to track them down. Maybe Dale could
Speaker 1: help him. And then he told me about a group
Speaker 1: of Polygamus that were in town to kill someone. And
Speaker 1: he told me about Evil LeBaron. It was May eight
Speaker 1: ninety seven, and I went the next day to my
Speaker 1: managing editor and said, I know we've ignored these Polygamus
Speaker 1: groups for years, and I understand. You know where a
Speaker 1: church own newspaper, The Mormon Church owns the Desert News,
Speaker 1: and back then it didn't cover any of the Polygamus groups.
Speaker 1: Why would the church want its paper to bring any
Speaker 1: attention to an aspect of its past polygamy. They'd rather
Speaker 1: people forget. And I said, can I start on this?
Speaker 1: He said why? I said, Well, if they've turned violence,
Speaker 1: if one group has turned violence, we need to kind
Speaker 1: of clean up our own offshoot house. Offshoot house an
Speaker 1: interesting way of putting it. These groups have the same roots,
Speaker 1: same beliefs, same scriptures, as mainstream Mormons. So if they're
Speaker 1: out causing mayhem, it's on us to expose it to
Speaker 1: clean it up. I said, we need to be leading
Speaker 1: the charge, and he agreed, but Dale was unaware how
Speaker 1: quickly the clock was ticking. The next day was May nine.
Speaker 1: Dale called his sources inside the Salt Lake Police Department,
Speaker 1: the Labyns. Have you heard of them? I think one
Speaker 1: of them is in Utah right now planning to kill someone.
Speaker 1: The police said, we'll look into it, but by May
Speaker 1: t the clock had already counted down. Borrio City Police
Speaker 1: and I'd say they have no lead. Jept on who
Speaker 1: the two women were who entered the office of Polegamus
Speaker 1: leader of ruland Alread yesterday and shot him dead. Among
Speaker 1: the suspects of those who planned the possible assassination are
Speaker 1: leaders of two riot polegamus groups from the Team's at
Speaker 1: Novel and I Heart Radio. This is deliver Us from Herville.
Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Hyde, Chapter four The Hunt. Tuesday May seven
Speaker 1: was the day rienich Naz shot dead Ruling Alread on
Speaker 1: the orders of irvil LeBaron and del Van Adda heard
Speaker 1: the fallout in real time. He was in the newsroom
Speaker 1: the police scanner which I was monitoring, said a nature
Speaker 1: path in Salt Lake had been killed by two young women,
Speaker 1: shot several times and murray a suburb of Salt Lake.
Speaker 1: Dale instantly connected the dots. This was the murder he'd
Speaker 1: been warned all about. And what Dale felt in that moment,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna be honest. I was elated. I
Speaker 1: was excited. I thought, Holy cow, have I got a
Speaker 1: scoop on this? Dale had a scoop because what he
Speaker 1: could hear monitoring the police scanner was that the police
Speaker 1: were jumping on the wrong leads. The initial read by
Speaker 1: the police was that it was a drug heist gone bad,
Speaker 1: But Dal knew that Rulin Alred was a homeopathic doctor
Speaker 1: who only used natural remedies, and he wasn't just any
Speaker 1: homeopathic doctor either. Basically, the Alreds were the largest, potentially
Speaker 1: most lucrative of all the polygamists subgroups. In other words,
Speaker 1: for a certain predator, potentially a very desirable target, a
Speaker 1: predator like the one he just spent the previous forty
Speaker 1: hours looking into. Because ever since Dale had received that
Speaker 1: tip from that man in his ward, he'd been learning
Speaker 1: as much as he could about hervil Le Baron. Everything
Speaker 1: he was hearing about the murder in Salt Lake was
Speaker 1: starting to make sense in a way that both horrified
Speaker 1: and energized him. I went into the managing editor again.
Speaker 1: I said, I think this is Erville. I think this
Speaker 1: is what I was told two days ago. So I
Speaker 1: need to start pursuing that the police will come around soon.
Speaker 1: If it was him. For del this was one of
Speaker 1: those rare moments where life kind of feels like a movie.
Speaker 1: This is the turning point for me, This is the
Speaker 1: come to Jesus moment. This is when I knew I
Speaker 1: was going to be a crusader. It might sound like
Speaker 1: hyperbole or a bit grandiose, but the story unfolding in
Speaker 1: front of Dale was a kind of coming together of
Speaker 1: the two central strands of his life into one singular mission.
Speaker 1: I was combating bad forces, whether religious or otherwise, and
Speaker 1: turning the rock over and bringing sunlight to bear. Dale,
Speaker 1: who had converted to Mormonism as a teenager, really believed
Speaker 1: deeply in its doctrines. He now understood that his scoop
Speaker 1: was in fact a murder that twisted his faith into
Speaker 1: something unrecognizable, something monstrous. Herville was not so much an
Speaker 1: offshoot of the Latter Day Saint Church. Even though he
Speaker 1: used some of the scriptures, he was really saw himself
Speaker 1: as Moses. He was really old Testament. It sent chills
Speaker 1: up and down my spine. What Dale did next it
Speaker 1: was conventional, especially for a journalist sitting on the cusp
Speaker 1: of a huge story. He went and shared what he
Speaker 1: knew with the cops, well one cop in particular, one
Speaker 1: great detective named Dick Forbes, who has died. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure he died. We were sharing information confidentially for
Speaker 1: quite some time. You'll hear a lot about Dick in
Speaker 1: this series because at this point in time, Dick Forbes
Speaker 1: had also started to investigate Herville had become equally concerned
Speaker 1: by what he was learning. So Dale met with Dick
Speaker 1: and proposed an unusual partnership. I made it clear to
Speaker 1: Dick when we sat down, Look, I need your help.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a partnership. I will never embarrass you,
Speaker 1: I will never betray you. I think we can do
Speaker 1: this together and without over dramatizing it, we are in
Speaker 1: a fight against evil. Dal didn't stop there. He had
Speaker 1: an even more unusual request for the cop. Dick was
Speaker 1: going to have to start going to church again. Dick
Speaker 1: was in an active member of the church because he
Speaker 1: couldn't kick his habit of smoking and didn't feel he's
Speaker 1: worthy to attend. Smoking is forbidden in the Mormon church.
Speaker 1: I said, forget that, go back to church. You're gonna
Speaker 1: need help, and the police force is not enough on this.
Speaker 1: This wasn't some moral scolding. Dal was saying that if
Speaker 1: the police wanted to use Dale sources within the fundamentalist community,
Speaker 1: they needed to be able to talk their language, their
Speaker 1: terminology of doctrine and scriptures. I said, from the beginning,
Speaker 1: the only way you're going to get Herville is to
Speaker 1: break someone substantial in his group. Things are going to
Speaker 1: have to happen that other cops might say are serendipity
Speaker 1: or luck. But as a Latter day Saint, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're looking for help, you need to be right
Speaker 1: latter day saint. That's what mainstream Mormons prefer to be called.
Speaker 1: And the only way you're gonna do that is to
Speaker 1: be knowledge about the scriptures. If you're just a regular
Speaker 1: cop and you can't discuss d n C. Eighty five
Speaker 1: with him smartly, you're gonna lose out he's gonna just
Speaker 1: think you're ignorant. D n C. Eighty five or Doctrine
Speaker 1: and Covenants eighty five is the Mormon scripture fundamentalists say
Speaker 1: predicts the coming of the One mighty and strong. I
Speaker 1: brought the scriptures with me. Any other cop would say,
Speaker 1: forget the scriptures and everything else, Just tell me how
Speaker 1: does he do the murders, and who does he know
Speaker 1: and everything. But he listened to me and he agreed.
Speaker 1: Dale and Dick both saw him. This was how to
Speaker 1: get to Herville. You get inside his colt flip informants,
Speaker 1: equal smoking. That's how committed he was as a cop.
Speaker 1: He really believed that he was a difference than he was.
Speaker 1: He was a great detective, but now he incorporated this
Speaker 1: religious aspect because he knew that was what it was
Speaker 1: going to take to bring Herville down and some of
Speaker 1: his followers, the ones that actually did the murders. So
Speaker 1: while Dick Forbes headed back to Church, Dale set off
Speaker 1: to get the inside scoop on just what Herville had
Speaker 1: been up to all these years. After all, his day
Speaker 1: job wasn't to stop Herville. He needed to break news,
Speaker 1: and to do that he was headed to Mexico. Maybe
Speaker 1: he could hear it all from the horse's mouth. Dell
Speaker 1: set out to meet Herbale face to face. That's coming
Speaker 1: up after the break. As del van Ada began investigating
Speaker 1: the murder of Ruling Alread in May of nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 1: he had no idea who had pulled the trigger or
Speaker 1: even who Riena Chinov was, but he felt sure Irvill
Speaker 1: LeBaron was behind it all. Dale began swapping information with
Speaker 1: Detective Dick Forbes, and that certainty only grew. I started
Speaker 1: calling down to Mexico and reached Erville's youngest brother, who
Speaker 1: had taken over the church. I think it was Thursday night,
Speaker 1: the day before the Alred funeral. Dale had reached Virlin LeBaron,
Speaker 1: Joel and Rville's younger brother, just before he made his
Speaker 1: trip up to Utah in what Erville had hoped would
Speaker 1: be Verrlin's last day and earth the day before his
Speaker 1: planned ambush. He did not know at the time that
Speaker 1: the purpose of killing Roland already was so Erville could
Speaker 1: kill him so he would know he would be at
Speaker 1: the funeral. Verlin told Dale the story of Colonial LeBaron,
Speaker 1: about Rville killing his own brother, Joel I said, I've
Speaker 1: never heard of any of these. They said, no one has.
Speaker 1: No one was interested before, but now perhaps with this
Speaker 1: murder and salt leg a very unique odd they will.
Speaker 1: And then he told me about this raid that was
Speaker 1: made by Herville's people, just horrendous to me. And I'm
Speaker 1: Baja California, village named Los Milinos. The massacre, the fire bombing,
Speaker 1: the shootings, the murder of two innocent young men. I thought,
Speaker 1: I gotta get this guy. And I went into the
Speaker 1: other and said, I'm off on this. The team can
Speaker 1: do the rest of it. And I became so committed.
Speaker 1: Dale started to learn other things about Herbl's Colts, the
Speaker 1: identities of some of Herville's inner circle, and he started
Speaker 1: to hear whispers about the Colts movement in the years
Speaker 1: following the Los Milinos massacre. We're talking between n and
Speaker 1: seventy seven here, a period where the Colt had been
Speaker 1: moving across America, living and hiding house to house, town
Speaker 1: to town, and in between. Well, quite a few people
Speaker 1: who came into the orbit of the Colt had gone missing.
Speaker 1: Perhaps the most shocking, stomach turning of all the stories
Speaker 1: Dyl heard was about a woman named Becky Becky was
Speaker 1: Irvil's daughter, one of thirteen children born to his first wife, Delfina.
Speaker 1: Becky had inherited Ervil's gift of visions, saw things, heard things,
Speaker 1: blurted out things you shouldn't say. But the colt did
Speaker 1: not see her as a prophet. They saw her as
Speaker 1: a loose cannon. Dale began to hear rumors about just
Speaker 1: what had happened to Becky. Anyone who opposed him deserved
Speaker 1: to die, including a daughter. It was just a question
Speaker 1: how many people he could order be killed that there was.
Speaker 1: There was really gonna be no stopping him. Dale knew
Speaker 1: Becky had been married off to another one of Rvil's
Speaker 1: inner circle, Victor money mansion Off Hervill's minister of finance.
Speaker 1: He was Glenchonov's younger brother who you heard from an
Speaker 1: episode three, an older brother of Rina Channath. All part
Speaker 1: of that interlacing of blood ties that bound Evil's crime family. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Victionof was also a person of interest to the police
Speaker 1: at this point, but not just because of Becky's disappearance.
Speaker 1: It was because the polygamous other wife, who was called Nancy,
Speaker 1: had been picked up by the cops for information on
Speaker 1: the ruling all red murder. So Dyll called up viction
Speaker 1: AV the money man, understand, said your wife was in town. Wow,
Speaker 1: this thing was happening. Dale keeps the questions simple. Ask
Speaker 1: the sort of things a reporter asked a KG source.
Speaker 1: Just keep the conversation going, keep them from hanging up.
Speaker 1: You have seen and known Herbal Aparonetic in the course
Speaker 1: of your life. What was he like? Not here like
Speaker 1: everybody think good my opinion, really, but I did everybody
Speaker 1: think he is bouts everything? That's Vic defending Herbal saying
Speaker 1: he isn't all blood and guts. One was the last
Speaker 1: time you know where he is? I have no idea
Speaker 1: where he work for him? Dale keeps reeling him in.
Speaker 1: I think that there was a fundamentalist that said that
Speaker 1: for some reason, information that he was suppuying money to
Speaker 1: his church, the Lamb of God. Really did you ever
Speaker 1: belong to his church? Vic says he has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with Hervil's church. Dale knows he's lying. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to be a basic or not ever Religi. That's
Speaker 1: not that religious a person. Vic lying again, but then
Speaker 1: he reverts to a trick the le barons would use
Speaker 1: over and over with the police in there many many
Speaker 1: interactions with them in the years to come. Vic kind
Speaker 1: of turned the table. He started to gently mind Dale
Speaker 1: for information. What did he know about the investigation into
Speaker 1: the colt I have a word for I'm not sure perfect.
Speaker 1: I couldn't can't understand how they all had came up
Speaker 1: with a warrant for you to win. Dale tried to
Speaker 1: change the conversation. Light in the mood. Remember him saying
Speaker 1: anything funny or something funny, may runners have a lot
Speaker 1: of wit. I wanted a lot of wit, like the
Speaker 1: brother who was building spaceships. After circling around and around,
Speaker 1: Dale sensed his time with Vic was drawing to a close,
Speaker 1: so he went in hard. What he really wanted to
Speaker 1: know that you ever been a believe? Everybody knows, Vic says.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows he has two wives, but now he only
Speaker 1: has one, which led Dell to wonder, where's Eervil's daughter?
Speaker 1: Your other wife, Becky. No, she isn't deceased, he says,
Speaker 1: just divorced. Vic is clearly becoming rattled by Dale's questioning
Speaker 1: and by how much Dale knows. I don't want to
Speaker 1: have anything about her. I didn't care about my wife,
Speaker 1: and I a pride forever Dale had heard enough. Dale
Speaker 1: is a meticulously organized reporter. I've seen the boxes of
Speaker 1: notes and materials he assembled on the labyrins. He'd use
Speaker 1: index cards to track leads, put them in a little
Speaker 1: cardboard box he tied with a shoe string, and the
Speaker 1: leads kept piling up, the way they do in cop shows.
Speaker 1: Next up, Dale called Dan Jordan's, the one time French
Speaker 1: missionary who had killed Joela Baron at Derville's bidding and
Speaker 1: who wrote some of Herville's most incendiary propaganda. Dale tracked
Speaker 1: down Dan's number and began probing him for information prior
Speaker 1: to the over and we're years ago when apparently you
Speaker 1: offered some pamphlets with her in the van. But Dan
Speaker 1: was no fool. Uh, let me see this. I would
Speaker 1: like to make his statement later on, but I would
Speaker 1: rather not make a statement or have any comment at
Speaker 1: this time because of the obvious appications expective in case
Speaker 1: I will be making a statement at some future time
Speaker 1: or the assigned to another words, no comment. But Dale
Speaker 1: was now circling his main target, Herbal, getting closer and closer,
Speaker 1: and as he did, his reporting was finding a wider audience.
Speaker 1: The National press was now publishing his stories, but he
Speaker 1: still needed to get to the one man at the
Speaker 1: center of it all. I needed an interview able, and
Speaker 1: I even wrote a piece for Time magazine because they
Speaker 1: started to get interested, and a lot of others started
Speaker 1: to get interested. And knowing that an interview with herble
Speaker 1: was very important and it might be a reasonable ask
Speaker 1: considering the number of murders that had been committed by
Speaker 1: this time, when that was a dangerous thing to do,
Speaker 1: my instinct was no. I felt he was a coward
Speaker 1: and he never did anything himself. He always had other
Speaker 1: people do it, and he would never act precipitously. If
Speaker 1: I was interviewing him, it wouldn't happen there. I could
Speaker 1: worry about it later. But there was no way Dale's
Speaker 1: editors were going to send him down to Mexico. We're
Speaker 1: talking about some serious expense. They did not have a
Speaker 1: vision of what this story would be. So I spent
Speaker 1: my own money. My wife and I had two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars in the savings, and she agreed to let me
Speaker 1: use it all. We hired a pilot, brought his two sons,
Speaker 1: who were ex missionaries, spoke Spanish. First stop was the
Speaker 1: Chihuahua Desert. I went down Colonial LeBaron first. When I
Speaker 1: talked to his mother and his sister Esther, who was
Speaker 1: kind of the family historian. I remember having a lot
Speaker 1: of discussions of lygamy and how do these other wives
Speaker 1: put up with it? And Virlin said to me, it's easier.
Speaker 1: They don't expect as much. When Dale arrived in Colonial LeBaron,
Speaker 1: five years had passed since Herville had killed his brother Joel.
Speaker 1: But if he had expected the whole town to hate Herville,
Speaker 1: Dale was in for a surprise. I was struck by
Speaker 1: how they were still defending Herville even though he had
Speaker 1: killed their most beloved brother and son, Joel. Dale was
Speaker 1: experiencing those same emotions I had seen in Joel's son
Speaker 1: Adrian and his wife Delhi on the hills over Los Melinos.
Speaker 1: These split loyalties of the people who had once seen
Speaker 1: Herville as family, and we're now watching on in confused terror.
Speaker 1: As his cult grew as he carried out more and
Speaker 1: more extreme acts. But then he got a break. A
Speaker 1: possible location for Herville south of Mexico City, had an
Speaker 1: address and everything I went there, he wasn't home. Dale
Speaker 1: had arrived moments too late. It was where he was staying.
Speaker 1: Several of the neighbors said he left a couple hours ago.
Speaker 1: Dale left Mexico without the interview he wanted, but his
Speaker 1: notebook was now overflowing with new leads. Any picture was
Speaker 1: starting to emerge in the jigsaw puzzle of Herville in
Speaker 1: his cult. It was a terrifying portrait of a cult
Speaker 1: leader who seemed to have a genuine hold on his followers.
Speaker 1: He was the patriarch, he was the boss. He was
Speaker 1: an inveterate ladies man, and for some reason, women were
Speaker 1: really attracted to him and he could charm them. Irene,
Speaker 1: his sister in law, describe first seeing Herville at the time.
Speaker 1: They're all poor and would have overalls with one rope
Speaker 1: on one side going to the other side, and barefoot,
Speaker 1: and she said he had a split in his crotch
Speaker 1: which had never been repaired, and he didn't wear underwear.
Speaker 1: So you saw all of Herville. And yet she still
Speaker 1: said after that he was very handsome, and I still
Speaker 1: found myself attractive. Plus he would you know, it's almost poetic.
Speaker 1: If he starts talking visions and revelations, it's a manna
Speaker 1: for those that are feeling persecuted, isolated. That here's someone
Speaker 1: with a real vision. So he was trying to marry everyone.
Speaker 1: And of course it wasn't just wives that he was
Speaker 1: recruiting his disciples. He found vulnerable people who secretly wanted
Speaker 1: to be loved, part of a community, and wanted to
Speaker 1: amount to something which no one told any of them
Speaker 1: before they would ever do. People searching for significance and
Speaker 1: meaning in their lives. These were the recruits whose identities devils.
Speaker 1: Uncovering people like Lloyd and Don Sullivan. He found people
Speaker 1: who perceived themselves as failures and gave them a sense
Speaker 1: of mission, even though it came to killing eventually, all
Speaker 1: part of the same mission. As for Herville. Somewhere along
Speaker 1: the line, Deal concluded his thirst for power for adoration
Speaker 1: had consumed him, sent him down paths of wickedness, violence,
Speaker 1: and murder. He was a man who craved power and
Speaker 1: was very lustful. So how do you get power? How
Speaker 1: do you sleep with as many women as you can?
Speaker 1: I mean plaguing me appeal to him because all he
Speaker 1: had to do is marry them and some whatever ceremony,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not take care of them. That wasn't a
Speaker 1: big issue with him. He was driven by the need
Speaker 1: to be adored, revered, loved by men and women. As
Speaker 1: the summer of seventies went on, the stories of murders
Speaker 1: and disappearances attributed to Herville and his followers continued to
Speaker 1: come across Dale's desk. There was the disappearance of Robert Simon's,
Speaker 1: a rival prophet. He disappeared after a game of pool
Speaker 1: with some of the cult. In seventy That same year,
Speaker 1: Noah Meserate, the plural wife of Bud Shannath. She had
Speaker 1: vanished without a trace after a car journey through the
Speaker 1: San Pedro Mountains with two of Herbal's wives. One of
Speaker 1: those wives, she was called Vonda White, was linked to
Speaker 1: the death of another of Herbal's group, a former army
Speaker 1: vat who was instrumental in planning the Los Milinos attack,
Speaker 1: A giant of a man named Dean vest He'd been
Speaker 1: shot to death in seventy five in a house he
Speaker 1: shared with Vonda White and some other cult followers. Dale wondered,
Speaker 1: could all these killings really be Hervil's crime family. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm curious as a young reporter what that felt like.
Speaker 1: I would imagine it's exhilarating, but also a little scary.
Speaker 1: I mean, were you scared at all? Did you recognize
Speaker 1: the danger of what you were doing? No, I would
Speaker 1: call it youthful ignorance, which followed me for quite some
Speaker 1: time in my career. Now I'm kind of appalled of
Speaker 1: the things I did without thinking of the consequences, especially
Speaker 1: to my wife and kids. I can see why he'd
Speaker 1: filled that way, because his investigation hadn't gone unnoticed by
Speaker 1: the colt. Erville had early on identified me as a
Speaker 1: major enemy. He knew he got word from a number
Speaker 1: of people. It wasn't just the desert needs of the
Speaker 1: stories he was getting there, but Time magazine, of course,
Speaker 1: been Time was one of the biggest magazines in America
Speaker 1: back then, and as the story was getting out, Erville
Speaker 1: was angry and so at his orders, Disciple Lloyd Sullivan
Speaker 1: was dispatched to pay del Van at his family a visit.
Speaker 1: He had gone out to my house and was supposed
Speaker 1: to murder me, so, as it turned out in retrospect,
Speaker 1: I wasn't. Lloyd brought his son Don Sullivan along too.
Speaker 1: They waited for hours, but Dale didn't come home. He
Speaker 1: was in the newsroom working late. Again. He wouldn't find
Speaker 1: out for a few years just how close he had
Speaker 1: come to being another one of Hervill's victims. It was
Speaker 1: only after the fact that I realized how dangerous it
Speaker 1: may have been. But for me, how do I put
Speaker 1: it and still sound humble? Don't worry about humble. The
Speaker 1: mission was greater than the danger. It was a crusade.
Speaker 1: This was an evil man, somebody I felt needed all
Speaker 1: my energy to bring the task because no one had
Speaker 1: done it before. But del van Ada wasn't the only
Speaker 1: journalist beating a path to Hervil's dorm. That's coming up
Speaker 1: after the break? Are we rolling? Then? Should we go?
Speaker 1: Because they can edit. This is Lynn Packer. He's a
Speaker 1: legendary investigative reporter in Utah, a contemporary of journalist Dale
Speaker 1: van Ada, kind of his TV equivalent. I actually prefer
Speaker 1: the old television method when we're looking at each other
Speaker 1: like Dell. Also a member of the Mormon Church, went
Speaker 1: to the same Mormon university as Dell, but he'd actually
Speaker 1: heard of the Labyns way before Dale had when I
Speaker 1: was on my LDS mission, and for missionaries it was
Speaker 1: synonymous with Satan, with the devil, that the devil had
Speaker 1: somehow influenced these missionaries to adopt the doctrine of polygamy.
Speaker 1: For years. After this, Lynn put the Libyans out of
Speaker 1: his mind, moved back to Salt Lake got a job
Speaker 1: at Cassel, an NBC affiliate. He was making his name
Speaker 1: in TV news when a decade later, back in Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City, someone gave him a tip about a story.
Speaker 1: A local radio host was building a sort of unusual
Speaker 1: enterprise at his home, a flying saucer factory. I said,
Speaker 1: a flying saucer factory. Yeah, he said. This flying saucer
Speaker 1: company had an illustration of the flying saucer, and he
Speaker 1: told me. But it was incorporated by Ross le Baron,
Speaker 1: And so I went there and met Ross le Baron
Speaker 1: for the first time. It was a small, really old
Speaker 1: house in Salt Lake County, certainly in sort of a
Speaker 1: rundown area. He was happy to see me. He wanted
Speaker 1: the publicity. He took me to the backyard where he
Speaker 1: was running flying saucer tests, and he said, of course
Speaker 1: this is just a model. The big one will be
Speaker 1: much bigger because it has to fly to another location
Speaker 1: to pick up Jesus, to fly Jesus back to the Earth.
Speaker 1: Because the Bible, the scriptures say that's how he's going
Speaker 1: to return, and it's up to us to develop the
Speaker 1: flying Saucer so that he can return to the Earth
Speaker 1: for the last days. Lynn cut the TV package, a
Speaker 1: quirky novelty piece the sort, right before the anchors tossed
Speaker 1: it to sports with a little knowing chuckle, but no
Speaker 1: one was laughing by the time. Lynn was next on
Speaker 1: air to talk about the Labarrens. Tonight, Linn Backer and
Speaker 1: Dwayne Cardill a grimpse at Irvil Labarren's former territory near Ensenada, Mexico.
Speaker 1: This frightening cult leader now on dimensioned by Good Evening
Speaker 1: the notorious evil. By the time of the nineteen seven
Speaker 1: seven All Read murder, Lynn was the station's lead investigative reporter,
Speaker 1: and after that killing, he'd also set off to Mexico
Speaker 1: to do some digging into Herval in his colt, But
Speaker 1: like Dale, he arrived too late to speak to hervill
Speaker 1: that is, Instead, he had to settle for an interview
Speaker 1: with a fellow reporter, someone who had managed to get
Speaker 1: in a room with the elusive cult leader. Lauren Becklund
Speaker 1: is a reporter for the Los Angeles Times and the
Speaker 1: only journalist we've heard about who's interviewed Irvilla Baron. The
Speaker 1: interview took place in August six. He was a very
Speaker 1: large figure. We were sitting in a really hot and
Speaker 1: Sonata jail cell and the whole room smelled like onions,
Speaker 1: just tremendously onions. And I preserve a La Baron. I
Speaker 1: think he's just eaten a lot. And he was just
Speaker 1: spreading profusely, just more than I've ever seen anybody perspire
Speaker 1: in my whole life. And as he spoke, it was
Speaker 1: with hesitation at first, because I don't think he wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to me, but later it was as if
Speaker 1: he were trying to convince me. He was speaking like
Speaker 1: a preacher, for his strong voice, a figure that seemed
Speaker 1: to be larger than his physical presence. Lynn and his
Speaker 1: TV news colleagues continued their reporting. They heard the same
Speaker 1: rumors as del van Ada about some of the disappearances
Speaker 1: linked to Ervil's disciples. Robert Simon's, who had been seen
Speaker 1: earlier with rvil LeBaron, disappeared leaving his home with one
Speaker 1: of LeBaron's followers. Like that rival prophet Robert Simons. Our
Speaker 1: information is that he was last seeing what the disciple
Speaker 1: of the Church of the Lamb of God. Neither this
Speaker 1: disciple or Mr Simon's has been seen since and the
Speaker 1: giant Dean Best. Add to that incident, another which occurred
Speaker 1: last year in San Diego. Then a man named Dean
Speaker 1: Best was murdered two women or suspects. Best had been
Speaker 1: a follower of ervial LeBaron. That case, like the Simon's disappearance,
Speaker 1: remains unsolved. As the summer of seventy seven, past journalists
Speaker 1: like Dale and Lynn continued to bring Ervilla A Baron
Speaker 1: to a national audience. The press had given hervila nickname,
Speaker 1: the Mormon Manson. He had that kind of notoriety with
Speaker 1: the public now. But despite all this, rvil Abarn's cultive
Speaker 1: around one followers remained intact. Well that's how it might
Speaker 1: have appeared from the outside anyway. But while Dale and
Speaker 1: Lynne had been investigating, the cops, led by Detective Dick Forbes,
Speaker 1: were building their own momentum, gathering evidence, identifying concrete suspects
Speaker 1: for the killings of Ruling all Read, rival prophet Robert Simons,
Speaker 1: and Dean vest And now the police were about to
Speaker 1: make a major breakthrough, something they've been after from the
Speaker 1: very start. Of their investigation. They were about to flip
Speaker 1: someone from within the cult. Arrests at the heart of
Speaker 1: hervil Abaran's colts were about to begin. Let's start with
Speaker 1: your great on Morino December twenty six, Nan Devini four
Speaker 1: and the event sent that after that, What did your
Speaker 1: recollection of the strategy and the planning that went into
Speaker 1: that about the actual way of itself? Someone who was
Speaker 1: about to blow the whole hervil Abaron case wide open
Speaker 1: for more of watches darn Man upstairs. That's the most
Speaker 1: important thing to nominators person that's coming up in the
Speaker 1: next episode of deliver Us from hervill deliver Us from
Speaker 1: Herbale is hosted by me jesse Hyde and written and
Speaker 1: reported by me Leona Hamad and David Waters. Production from
Speaker 1: Leona Hamid and David Waters. Sean Glenn and Max O'Brien
Speaker 1: are executive producers. Lena Chang and Megan Oyinka are researchers.
Speaker 1: Marianna Gongora is our field producer. Fact checking by Donya
Speaker 1: Suleman and Sona Avakian. Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie Taylor,
Speaker 1: and Charlotte Wolf. Austin Mitchell is our creative Director of Production.
Speaker 1: Michae Lee Row is our managing editor. Gavin Haynes is
Speaker 1: our head of Development. Willard Foxton is our creative director
Speaker 1: of Development. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander
Speaker 1: and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters.
Speaker 1: Our music is composed by Julian Lynch. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: Scott Anderson, Scott Carrier, Del van Ada, Pippa Smith, Saskia Edwards,
Speaker 1: Matt O'Mara, Katrina nor l and Beth and Macheluso, or
Speaker 1: In Rosenbaum, Shelby Shankman and all the team. A U
Speaker 1: T A. For more from novel, visit novel dot Audio