WEBVTT - 4: The Hunt 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:15.240 Novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and content 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:24.640 that some listeners might find distressing. Previously, on deliver Us 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.200 from Herbal, Hervill thought that if he got rid of Joel, 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.480 he could just move in and take leadership with Joel's people. Well, 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:37.080 it didn't work. That's the problem. The prophecy said this, 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.720 bigs of a lake will run in blood after they've 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.880 heard my message. That's when the Labarns showed up and 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.880 things got pretty rough. After that, there was a string 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.800 of threats that if he didn't repent and follow the 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:55.000 true prophet, he was going to die. Herbal was their leader. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.760 They thought they were going to go out and save 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:03.960 the world. I called my mother. She said, honey, here 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.920 Daddy's spin shop. And I said he is a dad 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:16.240 and she said, yes, She's ted. As long as I 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.240 can remember, I've wanted to be a writer, to tell 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.679 stories of other people's lives, to take readers on a 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.240 journey into a world they might otherwise never visit. My 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.400 mom even has this photo of me as a baby 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:37.840 holding a pencil ready to write. I grew up sixty 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.280 miles south of Reno, Nevada, near the Carson River. At 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:46.000 the end of what's called the forty mile Desert. When 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:47.880 I was little, my mom and I we'd go into 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.760 town to buy these big rolls of newsprint, and so 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.040 while my brothers were outside catching lizards under stage brush, 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.040 I was inside making my own newspapers from articles cut 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.000 out of magazines. It helped me connect with the outside world, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:10.400 which seemed distant, busy, chaotic, fascinating. And when I look back, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.960 many of the stories I was drawn to early in 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.080 my career without even realizing, were stories where I was 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.200 trying to do something for myself to figure out my 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.880 place in Mormonism and the place of faith in the 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.240 broader world. I guess I'm still trying to figure that out. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.799 It's one reason I'm doing this podcast. Journalism and faith 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.919 can be fundamentally at odds, because journalism, when done right, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.800 is a search for truth no matter where it leads you. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.359 And in my case, reporting on stories like this one, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:50.840 it led me further away from my faith, away from Mormonism. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.960 Now that's not the case for everyone. In fact, for 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.040 some journalists I've met, their faith inspires them. It's the 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:03.440 animating force and the work they do. It was good, 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:08.760 said Jester Jesse j these days. Journalist del van Ada 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.519 lives in a big colonial style house in the suburbs 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:16.600 of Washington, d C. Home. Dale has had quite the 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.359 career as a journalist, most of it at the Washington Post. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.119 He broke the Iran Contra scandal back in the eighties. 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.760 He's interviewed six presidents. He was nominated for the Pulzer 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.760 Prize five times. I got some stuff you might be interested. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.520 You want to see. Yeah, it's a bright day in September. 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.320 Dale takes me away down into his basement to see 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.120 some mementos from that career, taking millions of readers on 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.240 journeys into worlds they otherwise might never visit. That dream 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:51.600 I had as a kid. This is the Internet with Reagan, 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.200 and he begged me not to run the story. He 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.400 shows me souvenirs from war reporting constant gunfire the whole 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.440 time you're there, because contraband, from trips to the Middle East. Yes, 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.840 Sir a Fat gave me a live cluster bomb. I'm 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.480 presuming he didn't know what it was, and I brought 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.680 it back to the US. A picture of him headed 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.160 to the South Pole from Alaska. That's what they used 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.800 for clubs. That's the lowest penis bone. Yeah, that's a 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.920 lot to carry around. And then right at the back, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.159 behind some boxes, a framed poster behind glass of a 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.599 movie star picture, the unlikely spark that started it all. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.320 I had early decided that writing was a good thing 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.560 because I wrote to the up and coming star Olivia Hussey. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:37.680 She said that was the most beautiful letter she had 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.839 ever gotten, and uh, we dated. So I thought, you know, 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.360 I wasn't that great looking a guy, And I thought, well, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.839 at writing him, bring me someone like her. This is 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.240 a good thing to do. So I became editor of 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.599 my high school. When Dale says he isn't a great 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:56.960 looking guy, what he's saying is he's short. He's a hobbit, 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.800 like a modern day Bilbo back in. He's got an 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.920 impish grin. His eyes twinkle with the same delight or mischief, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.240 like a guy about to go on a grand adventure 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:15.000 in Spain. You immediately like him. Trust him, let your 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:19.520 guard down, and spill your secrets all right now you 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:23.200 can strike the set. I was speak no more forever. 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.799 From the start, Dell got his kicks, challenging the powers 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:32.920 that be. That was his mission. It's what makes him 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.400 such a great reporter, but when it came to irvill 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:44.640 Le Baron, it's also what nearly got him killed. Dale's 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.640 career started out in the same place mind did, both Mormons, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:53.200 both studying journalism at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.040 I remember walking into that campus paper news room. It 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:02.640 was humming with energy and intensity. It felt so important, momentous. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.320 By nineteen seventy seven, Dell was working at the Desiret News, 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.320 one of two Salt Lake City dailies. That's actually where 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.760 I worked today. Back then, the newsroom looked like your 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:21.039 classic TV set newsroom, open plan, reporters with rolled up sleeves, 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.680 hunched over typewriters, editors yelling across the room about a 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:31.359 blown deadline, the police scanner beeping and squawking. In the 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.880 spring of seventy seven, Dale was a young reporter. He 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.560 had just been appointed to lead a new investigative team, 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:43.400 and his life was about to change forever. It started 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.080 with a man from his local ward that's what Mormons 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.839 call a parish. He approached Dale at his home with 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.320 a tip. He had lost his wife and his daughter 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.520 to polygamy. Somebody had converted them and they disappeared, and 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.000 he was trying to find him, sort of like the 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.839 experienced Glenchion off Hat when the Lebarons turned his life 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.200 upside down and took his family away to Mexico, Only 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.200 this guy didn't even know where his family had gone. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.640 He was trying to track them down. Maybe Dale could 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.840 help him. And then he told me about a group 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.320 of Polygamus that were in town to kill someone. And 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.840 he told me about Evil LeBaron. It was May eight 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.040 ninety seven, and I went the next day to my 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.840 managing editor and said, I know we've ignored these Polygamus 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.160 groups for years, and I understand. You know where a 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.160 church own newspaper, The Mormon Church owns the Desert News, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.240 and back then it didn't cover any of the Polygamus groups. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.680 Why would the church want its paper to bring any 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.640 attention to an aspect of its past polygamy. They'd rather 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.600 people forget. And I said, can I start on this? 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.200 He said why? I said, Well, if they've turned violence, 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.800 if one group has turned violence, we need to kind 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:04.960 of clean up our own offshoot house. Offshoot house an 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.360 interesting way of putting it. These groups have the same roots, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:14.320 same beliefs, same scriptures, as mainstream Mormons. So if they're 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:19.200 out causing mayhem, it's on us to expose it to 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.360 clean it up. I said, we need to be leading 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.640 the charge, and he agreed, but Dale was unaware how 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.720 quickly the clock was ticking. The next day was May nine. 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.640 Dale called his sources inside the Salt Lake Police Department, 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.600 the Labyns. Have you heard of them? I think one 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.959 of them is in Utah right now planning to kill someone. 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.640 The police said, we'll look into it, but by May 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:58.720 t the clock had already counted down. Borrio City Police 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.320 and I'd say they have no lead. Jept on who 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.000 the two women were who entered the office of Polegamus 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.560 leader of ruland Alread yesterday and shot him dead. Among 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.840 the suspects of those who planned the possible assassination are 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:23.000 leaders of two riot polegamus groups from the Team's at 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.080 Novel and I Heart Radio. This is deliver Us from Herville. 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:46.840 I'm Jesse Hyde, Chapter four The Hunt. Tuesday May seven 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.640 was the day rienich Naz shot dead Ruling Alread on 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.800 the orders of irvil LeBaron and del Van Adda heard 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.679 the fallout in real time. He was in the newsroom 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.560 the police scanner which I was monitoring, said a nature 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:07.760 path in Salt Lake had been killed by two young women, 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:12.560 shot several times and murray a suburb of Salt Lake. 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.520 Dale instantly connected the dots. This was the murder he'd 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:21.680 been warned all about. And what Dale felt in that moment, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.960 all right, I'm gonna be honest. I was elated. I 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.160 was excited. I thought, Holy cow, have I got a 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.960 scoop on this? Dale had a scoop because what he 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.160 could hear monitoring the police scanner was that the police 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.760 were jumping on the wrong leads. The initial read by 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:44.120 the police was that it was a drug heist gone bad, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.600 But Dal knew that Rulin Alred was a homeopathic doctor 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.640 who only used natural remedies, and he wasn't just any 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:58.560 homeopathic doctor either. Basically, the Alreds were the largest, potentially 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:04.520 most lucrative of all the polygamists subgroups. In other words, 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:09.800 for a certain predator, potentially a very desirable target, a 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.160 predator like the one he just spent the previous forty 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:18.520 hours looking into. Because ever since Dale had received that 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.000 tip from that man in his ward, he'd been learning 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.920 as much as he could about hervil Le Baron. Everything 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.080 he was hearing about the murder in Salt Lake was 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.440 starting to make sense in a way that both horrified 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:36.200 and energized him. I went into the managing editor again. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.360 I said, I think this is Erville. I think this 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.800 is what I was told two days ago. So I 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.920 need to start pursuing that the police will come around soon. 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.800 If it was him. For del this was one of 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.280 those rare moments where life kind of feels like a movie. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.080 This is the turning point for me, This is the 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.960 come to Jesus moment. This is when I knew I 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:02.640 was going to be a crusader. It might sound like 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.880 hyperbole or a bit grandiose, but the story unfolding in 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.000 front of Dale was a kind of coming together of 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:14.840 the two central strands of his life into one singular mission. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:20.360 I was combating bad forces, whether religious or otherwise, and 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.560 turning the rock over and bringing sunlight to bear. Dale, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.359 who had converted to Mormonism as a teenager, really believed 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.160 deeply in its doctrines. He now understood that his scoop 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.079 was in fact a murder that twisted his faith into 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:44.680 something unrecognizable, something monstrous. Herville was not so much an 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.640 offshoot of the Latter Day Saint Church. Even though he 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.280 used some of the scriptures, he was really saw himself 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:56.240 as Moses. He was really old Testament. It sent chills 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.640 up and down my spine. What Dale did next it 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.880 was conventional, especially for a journalist sitting on the cusp 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.160 of a huge story. He went and shared what he 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.959 knew with the cops, well one cop in particular, one 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:17.400 great detective named Dick Forbes, who has died. Um, I'm 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:22.880 pretty sure he died. We were sharing information confidentially for 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.520 quite some time. You'll hear a lot about Dick in 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.120 this series because at this point in time, Dick Forbes 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:34.920 had also started to investigate Herville had become equally concerned 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.800 by what he was learning. So Dale met with Dick 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:42.000 and proposed an unusual partnership. I made it clear to 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.439 Dick when we sat down, Look, I need your help. 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.840 I'm looking for a partnership. I will never embarrass you, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.720 I will never betray you. I think we can do 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:57.600 this together and without over dramatizing it, we are in 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:03.160 a fight against evil. Dal didn't stop there. He had 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.839 an even more unusual request for the cop. Dick was 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.280 going to have to start going to church again. Dick 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:10.960 was in an active member of the church because he 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.320 couldn't kick his habit of smoking and didn't feel he's 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.760 worthy to attend. Smoking is forbidden in the Mormon church. 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.880 I said, forget that, go back to church. You're gonna 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.240 need help, and the police force is not enough on this. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.880 This wasn't some moral scolding. Dal was saying that if 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.760 the police wanted to use Dale sources within the fundamentalist community, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.080 they needed to be able to talk their language, their 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:43.520 terminology of doctrine and scriptures. I said, from the beginning, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.520 the only way you're going to get Herville is to 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:52.720 break someone substantial in his group. Things are going to 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.480 have to happen that other cops might say are serendipity 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.600 or luck. But as a Latter day Saint, you know, 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.240 if you're looking for help, you need to be right 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.200 latter day saint. That's what mainstream Mormons prefer to be called. 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:10.800 And the only way you're gonna do that is to 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.920 be knowledge about the scriptures. If you're just a regular 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.880 cop and you can't discuss d n C. Eighty five 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.200 with him smartly, you're gonna lose out he's gonna just 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.480 think you're ignorant. D n C. Eighty five or Doctrine 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.200 and Covenants eighty five is the Mormon scripture fundamentalists say 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.520 predicts the coming of the One mighty and strong. I 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.920 brought the scriptures with me. Any other cop would say, 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.760 forget the scriptures and everything else, Just tell me how 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.600 does he do the murders, and who does he know 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.360 and everything. But he listened to me and he agreed. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.880 Dale and Dick both saw him. This was how to 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.160 get to Herville. You get inside his colt flip informants, 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.239 equal smoking. That's how committed he was as a cop. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.000 He really believed that he was a difference than he was. 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.040 He was a great detective, but now he incorporated this 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.880 religious aspect because he knew that was what it was 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.960 going to take to bring Herville down and some of 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.360 his followers, the ones that actually did the murders. So 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.760 while Dick Forbes headed back to Church, Dale set off 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.600 to get the inside scoop on just what Herville had 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.440 been up to all these years. After all, his day 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.920 job wasn't to stop Herville. He needed to break news, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.680 and to do that he was headed to Mexico. Maybe 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.720 he could hear it all from the horse's mouth. Dell 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:40.760 set out to meet Herbale face to face. That's coming 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:51.080 up after the break. As del van Ada began investigating 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.520 the murder of Ruling Alread in May of nineteen seventy seven, 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.800 he had no idea who had pulled the trigger or 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:02.000 even who Riena Chinov was, but he felt sure Irvill 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:08.959 LeBaron was behind it all. Dale began swapping information with 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:14.000 Detective Dick Forbes, and that certainty only grew. I started 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:18.360 calling down to Mexico and reached Erville's youngest brother, who 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.960 had taken over the church. I think it was Thursday night, 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.160 the day before the Alred funeral. Dale had reached Virlin LeBaron, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.280 Joel and Rville's younger brother, just before he made his 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.360 trip up to Utah in what Erville had hoped would 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.399 be Verrlin's last day and earth the day before his 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.760 planned ambush. He did not know at the time that 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.880 the purpose of killing Roland already was so Erville could 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.200 kill him so he would know he would be at 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.200 the funeral. Verlin told Dale the story of Colonial LeBaron, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.680 about Rville killing his own brother, Joel I said, I've 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:53.720 never heard of any of these. They said, no one has. 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.080 No one was interested before, but now perhaps with this 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.080 murder and salt leg a very unique odd they will. 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.560 And then he told me about this raid that was 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.800 made by Herville's people, just horrendous to me. And I'm 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:15.920 Baja California, village named Los Milinos. The massacre, the fire bombing, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:21.359 the shootings, the murder of two innocent young men. I thought, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.560 I gotta get this guy. And I went into the 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.960 other and said, I'm off on this. The team can 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.520 do the rest of it. And I became so committed. 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.359 Dale started to learn other things about Herbl's Colts, the 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.840 identities of some of Herville's inner circle, and he started 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.000 to hear whispers about the Colts movement in the years 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:49.240 following the Los Milinos massacre. We're talking between n and 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.480 seventy seven here, a period where the Colt had been 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:57.320 moving across America, living and hiding house to house, town 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.240 to town, and in between. Well, quite a few people 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.040 who came into the orbit of the Colt had gone missing. 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.360 Perhaps the most shocking, stomach turning of all the stories 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:19.080 Dyl heard was about a woman named Becky Becky was 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.320 Irvil's daughter, one of thirteen children born to his first wife, Delfina. 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:28.600 Becky had inherited Ervil's gift of visions, saw things, heard things, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.800 blurted out things you shouldn't say. But the colt did 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.320 not see her as a prophet. They saw her as 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.600 a loose cannon. Dale began to hear rumors about just 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.720 what had happened to Becky. Anyone who opposed him deserved 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.280 to die, including a daughter. It was just a question 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.800 how many people he could order be killed that there was. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.320 There was really gonna be no stopping him. Dale knew 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.000 Becky had been married off to another one of Rvil's 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:02.000 inner circle, Victor money mansion Off Hervill's minister of finance. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.600 He was Glenchonov's younger brother who you heard from an 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.879 episode three, an older brother of Rina Channath. All part 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:15.280 of that interlacing of blood ties that bound Evil's crime family. Anyway, 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.479 Victionof was also a person of interest to the police 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:22.200 at this point, but not just because of Becky's disappearance. 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.880 It was because the polygamous other wife, who was called Nancy, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.800 had been picked up by the cops for information on 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:34.520 the ruling all red murder. So Dyll called up viction 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:44.840 AV the money man, understand, said your wife was in town. Wow, 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:53.359 this thing was happening. Dale keeps the questions simple. Ask 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.280 the sort of things a reporter asked a KG source. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.000 Just keep the conversation going, keep them from hanging up. 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.639 You have seen and known Herbal Aparonetic in the course 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:09.520 of your life. What was he like? Not here like 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.960 everybody think good my opinion, really, but I did everybody 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:21.080 think he is bouts everything? That's Vic defending Herbal saying 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.360 he isn't all blood and guts. One was the last 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:30.280 time you know where he is? I have no idea 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.560 where he work for him? Dale keeps reeling him in. 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.600 I think that there was a fundamentalist that said that 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.480 for some reason, information that he was suppuying money to 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:45.080 his church, the Lamb of God. Really did you ever 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.080 belong to his church? Vic says he has nothing to 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.560 do with Hervil's church. Dale knows he's lying. I'm not 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.520 trying to be a basic or not ever Religi. That's 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.800 not that religious a person. Vic lying again, but then 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.600 he reverts to a trick the le barons would use 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.200 over and over with the police in there many many 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.840 interactions with them in the years to come. Vic kind 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.119 of turned the table. He started to gently mind Dale 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:20.320 for information. What did he know about the investigation into 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.800 the colt I have a word for I'm not sure perfect. 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.479 I couldn't can't understand how they all had came up 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.240 with a warrant for you to win. Dale tried to 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:34.320 change the conversation. Light in the mood. Remember him saying 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:38.920 anything funny or something funny, may runners have a lot 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.879 of wit. I wanted a lot of wit, like the 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:53.760 brother who was building spaceships. After circling around and around, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.919 Dale sensed his time with Vic was drawing to a close, 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.280 so he went in hard. What he really wanted to 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:10.080 know that you ever been a believe? Everybody knows, Vic says. 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.320 Everyone knows he has two wives, but now he only 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.760 has one, which led Dell to wonder, where's Eervil's daughter? 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:26.359 Your other wife, Becky. No, she isn't deceased, he says, 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:31.320 just divorced. Vic is clearly becoming rattled by Dale's questioning 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:34.760 and by how much Dale knows. I don't want to 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:39.080 have anything about her. I didn't care about my wife, 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:53.280 and I a pride forever Dale had heard enough. Dale 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.119 is a meticulously organized reporter. I've seen the boxes of 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.919 notes and materials he assembled on the labyrins. He'd use 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:03.760 index cards to track leads, put them in a little 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.760 cardboard box he tied with a shoe string, and the 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.560 leads kept piling up, the way they do in cop shows. 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.399 Next up, Dale called Dan Jordan's, the one time French 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:18.199 missionary who had killed Joela Baron at Derville's bidding and 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:24.000 who wrote some of Herville's most incendiary propaganda. Dale tracked 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:27.600 down Dan's number and began probing him for information prior 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.560 to the over and we're years ago when apparently you 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:38.160 offered some pamphlets with her in the van. But Dan 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.760 was no fool. Uh, let me see this. I would 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.840 like to make his statement later on, but I would 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.280 rather not make a statement or have any comment at 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:52.080 this time because of the obvious appications expective in case 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:56.680 I will be making a statement at some future time 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:07.399 or the assigned to another words, no comment. But Dale 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:12.120 was now circling his main target, Herbal, getting closer and closer, 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:16.320 and as he did, his reporting was finding a wider audience. 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:22.720 The National press was now publishing his stories, but he 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:25.119 still needed to get to the one man at the 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:29.199 center of it all. I needed an interview able, and 0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:33.280 I even wrote a piece for Time magazine because they 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:36.000 started to get interested, and a lot of others started 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:38.840 to get interested. And knowing that an interview with herble 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.920 was very important and it might be a reasonable ask 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:47.119 considering the number of murders that had been committed by 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:49.760 this time, when that was a dangerous thing to do, 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.560 my instinct was no. I felt he was a coward 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:57.440 and he never did anything himself. He always had other 0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:01.280 people do it, and he would never act precipitously. If 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:03.800 I was interviewing him, it wouldn't happen there. I could 0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:07.000 worry about it later. But there was no way Dale's 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:10.000 editors were going to send him down to Mexico. We're 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:13.960 talking about some serious expense. They did not have a 0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:19.040 vision of what this story would be. So I spent 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:21.600 my own money. My wife and I had two thousand 0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:23.919 dollars in the savings, and she agreed to let me 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:27.760 use it all. We hired a pilot, brought his two sons, 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:32.159 who were ex missionaries, spoke Spanish. First stop was the 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:40.320 Chihuahua Desert. I went down Colonial LeBaron first. When I 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.520 talked to his mother and his sister Esther, who was 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:47.000 kind of the family historian. I remember having a lot 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.159 of discussions of lygamy and how do these other wives 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:53.960 put up with it? And Virlin said to me, it's easier. 0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:58.919 They don't expect as much. When Dale arrived in Colonial LeBaron, 0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:03.200 five years had passed since Herville had killed his brother Joel. 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.920 But if he had expected the whole town to hate Herville, 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.120 Dale was in for a surprise. I was struck by 0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:15.400 how they were still defending Herville even though he had 0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:20.560 killed their most beloved brother and son, Joel. Dale was 0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:24.080 experiencing those same emotions I had seen in Joel's son 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:27.520 Adrian and his wife Delhi on the hills over Los Melinos. 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:31.640 These split loyalties of the people who had once seen 0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:36.200 Herville as family, and we're now watching on in confused terror. 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:39.720 As his cult grew as he carried out more and 0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:46.720 more extreme acts. But then he got a break. A 0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:51.800 possible location for Herville south of Mexico City, had an 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:54.840 address and everything I went there, he wasn't home. Dale 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:58.240 had arrived moments too late. It was where he was staying. 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:02.040 Several of the neighbors said he left a couple hours ago. 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:09.879 Dale left Mexico without the interview he wanted, but his 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:14.879 notebook was now overflowing with new leads. Any picture was 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:17.800