WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 210 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.520 Also media, Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.559 to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.320 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.239 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.440 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.000 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:31.400 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:35.600 Yet ready for anarchy in Atlanta? 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.639 It should be clear to all Americans that we have 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.280 a very serious left wing terror threat in our country. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:47.360 State of the art, organized and well funded activists in criminals. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:52.440 On April twenty ninth, twenty twenty five, after almost exactly 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.080 four years of protests, sabotage, encampments, and organizing against the 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.840 construction of a state of the art police training facility 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:05.360 dubbed copp City, the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center officially 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.760 opened atop of the South River Forest Intocabb County, Georgia. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.640 Why two three cuts. 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.679 The Atlanta Public Safety Training Center is open? A handshake 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.720 between Governor Brian Kemp and are relieved Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens. 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:26.039 Getting here has not been an easy journey. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.440 The opening of the one hundred and eighteen million dollar 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.600 complex for police fire and E nine to one one personnel, 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:36.319 which includes academic leadership and simulation centers, came after not months, 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.440 but years of public pushback. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.000 This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I've 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.400 been covering the combined Defend the Atlanta Forest Stop Cop 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.840 City movement on this show since twenty twenty one. I 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.560 first traveled to Atlanta to report on the ground from 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.440 inside of the protest encampments in spring of twenty twenty two, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.840 and I moved to Atlanta to continue covering the story 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.440 more in depth in twenty twenty three. My coverage has 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.880 tracked the trajectory of the movement as well as my 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.639 ability as a reporter. But this will be my last 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:19.280 piece on the Stop Cop City movement. Every other reporter 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.240 mini series I've done on Stop Cup City was written 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.200 while the movement was still ongoing and the final outcome 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.800 had yet to be fully determined. Something that set the 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.400 movement in Atlanta apart was the genuine belief that this 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.679 fight was actually winnable, as opposed to the many lofty 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:44.880 aspirations of other anti police anarchists or leftist struggles. I 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.160 believe that we will win and COP City will never 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.760 be built. Where common turns of phrase and not just 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.560 repeated mindlessly as a protest chant, but deeply believed. But now, 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.520 six months after the grand opening of COP City, I 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.959 want to use this distance to offer a look at 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.320 the whole movement based on interviews and conversations I've had 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.200 with organizers, anarchists, and forest defenders, analyzing the movements rise 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.000 and fall and momentum, and why Atlanta is the bridge 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.600 between the twenty twenty protests during Trump's first term and 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.799 the current expansion of police surveillance, ICE activity and increased 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:28.440 state repression against quote unquote radical left terrorists. We don't 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.520 have enough time to retread a complete, in depth play 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.000 by play of the movement's history, most of which I've 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.880 already covered in previous episodes, but I will attempt to 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.240 break down the movement into a series of discrete phases. 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.880 After organizers learn about the plans to build COP City 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.360 in April of twenty twenty one, the movement to Defend 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:52.080 the Atlanta Forest first took form with an opening attack phase. 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:56.240 Throughout the entire summer of twenty twenty one, with tree 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.560 spiking and sabotage targeting construction equipment on the east side 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.160 of the forest, which a movie studio was planning to 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.160 develop at the time in partnership with local government. To 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.640 quote from an anonymous Atlanta anarchist quote, early stages of 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.520 the movement were very intentionally defined by lots of sabotage 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.919 and unapologetic militancy. Just absolute, this is what we're doing. 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.600 This is what we're about. This is the goal. If 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.839 you don't like it, that's cool, but then don't be 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:29.479 a part of this. That was just what we were doing. Unquote. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.239 In September twenty twenty one, the Atlantic City Council voted 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.359 to approve the Land Lease Ordinance, authorizing the Atlanta Police 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.159 Foundation to use hundreds of acres of city owned land 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.799 in the South River Forest to build copp City. After 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.640 this vote, electoral strategy gets largely eshewed, and soon after 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.440 the next phase fully kicks off that fall with the 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.400 physical occupation of the forest and the start of the 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:58.120 pressure campaigns targeting subcontractors working on the construction project. To 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:03.720 again quote from an anonymous Atlanta anarchist quote, persistent encampment occupation, 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.479 lots of direct action happening, lots of sabotage happening, and 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.320 the cops just not knowing what to do at all. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.200 Small incursions would get made, but they just had not 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.719 figured out what to do about it yet. There was 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:20.080 just kind of like free reign unquote. For the first 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.520 half of this occupation phase, the Atlanta police and de 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.080 Cab sheriffs seemed to be stuck in a form of paralysis, 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.200 not knowing how to disrupt the forest encampments or prevent 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:35.159 equipment sabotage. Meanwhile, the pressure campaign, inspired by the tactics 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.720 of the animal rights group Shack, showed early promise in 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.919 getting some contractors like Reeves Young construction and material suppliers 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.240 to drop out of the cop City project. But after 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.080 this stream of steady success from Fall of twenty twenty 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.240 one to May of twenty twenty two, the police were 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.839 forced to up the ante and started conducting large scale 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.320 raids in the forest to remove force defenders and damage 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.919 encampment infrastructure. Quoting an Atlanta anarchist quote, May of twenty 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.680 twenty two is the end of the paralysis phase for 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:11.000 the cops. We had our first grid sweep raids where 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.080 the paralysis phase is broken. You're getting your multi agency 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.599 large sweeps where they're really coming in and putting in 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.839 a lot of work. That really leads up to January 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:24.760 of twenty twenty three, so where Torte got killed unquote. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.320 Prior to the police killing of Torti Guita during a 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:32.080 forest encampment raid on January eighteen, twenty twenty three, the 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:37.080 occupation phase proved highly effective in preventing pre construction, but 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.279 the killing and Tortiguita essentially marked the end of the 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.520 continuous occupation phase. What followed was a period of high 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:49.680 octane intensity. Let's call this the revenge phase. Quoting an 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.400 Atlanta anarchist, you get this kind of like trading blows 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.320 with the cops repeatedly during that time, and things are 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.000 getting pretty fucking crazy, hitting their highest pitch at March fifth, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.039 during the South River Music Festival. On March fifth, a 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.960 few hundred people splintered off from the festival and marched 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.440 to the nearby Cop City construction site. The crowd repelled 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.559 police and construction equipment was set on fire. The cops 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.200 retaliated quick, swarming the area with all available units. In Atlanta, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.960 kettled the festival and eventually arrested twenty three people, charging 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.280 them with domestic terrorism. After the events of March fifth, 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.680 the movement entered an odd limbo phase, with heightened tensions 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.800 among the stop Coop City coalition on the role of 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:40.360 direct action and sabotage within mass movement actions. During this period, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.480 police fortified and regularly patrolled the perimeter around the forest. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:49.280 Entry became heavily restricted. Following this denial of operating space, 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.800 the forest around the slated construction site was preemptively clear 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.320 cut to both prepare for construction and demoralize the movement. 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.800 But a month later, the bail fund and legal defense 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.800 nonprofit the Atlanta Solidarity Fund, was raided by police and 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.720 were later charged with money laundering and charity fraud. Just 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.640 a few days after the raid, the city Council approved 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.880 a sixty seven million dollar cop City funding package. The 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:21.000 next day, organizers announced referendum campaign to gather petition signatures 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.920 to put the cop City land lease ordinance on the 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:29.000 upcoming November ballot. Despite setbacks, there was still energy going 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.480 towards stopping cop City, but it was fragmenting in ways 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.600 that it hadn't really before there was no clear consensus 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.959 on the direction to take the movement. Previous periods of 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.160 shift in the movement were often marked by an organized 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.360 Week of Action, which was a convergence of people from 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.720 all around the country or even the world, who traveled 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.400 to Atlanta to partake in a week's worth of events, actions, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.240 and protests against cop City, the Atlanta Police Foundation, and 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.079 contractors hired to build the facility. The summer of twenty 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.520 twenty three saw the sixth organized Week of Action, but 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.720 it too was caught in this limbo phase and without 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.680 the forest as an operating zone, the Week of Action 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.040 struggled to find its purpose, despite the surge in movement 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:17.119 participation around the city Hall budget vote earlier that June. 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.600 The next phase was the first to be positively determined 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.079 by the police, the repression phase, which really sets in 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.360 around August of twenty twenty three with the Rico indictment 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:33.360 charging sixty one people with racketeering, arson, and domestic terrorism. 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.679 State repression then evolved in the form of persistent surveillance 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.760 of activists, house raids, and additional charges, which leads to 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:46.120 the current trial phase. Quote an Atlanta anarchist quote, I 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.760 think an important aspect of this phase is obviously supporting 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.520 your defendants, preparing for the potential of long term prisoner support, 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.120 and also not letting the state be the one to 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.560 close the book by doing this, because you don't want 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.760 to let them define the near of this forever by 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.160 getting to put their rubber stamp on the end of 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.080 the trial and calling it Otherwise, the movement gets stuck 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.600 in this permanent zombie phase where we're still saying, stop 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.320 cop City is this thing that's happening when it's it's built, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.320 It's built, it's right there, right like. It doesn't mean 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.679 that we all just go home, but it means that 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.720 you're like a veteran of this battle now and there's 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.679 new shit to do, new stuff to work. One. Even 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.720 in retrospect, people have been largely hesitant to assign blame 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.720 to a specific factor in why the fight to stop 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.240 cop City fell short of achieving its stated goal, But 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.880 we can track a decline in momentum which allowed the 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.560 state to gain the upper hand. For nearly three years, 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:54.320 state repression tactics failed to disrupt the growing momentum against 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.199 the Cop City project. Forest raids, arrests, and criminal charges 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.960 made little impact. The use of terrorism charges as a 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.160 repression tactic started back in December of twenty twenty two, 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.840 following an encampment raid resulting in six people being charged 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.480 with domestic terrorism. This was the first time that charge 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.280 has been used in Georgia, following its adoption in twenty 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.680 seventeen in response to the whitepremacist mass shooting by Dylan Roof. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.680 Just a month after domestic terrorism charges were first deployed, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.360 Tortuguhito was killed by police in another forest raid, but 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.840 this tragedy only seemed to strengthen the resolve of the 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:35.400 movement to fight cop City, which then only grew. Similarly, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.320 the clear cutting of the force itself wasn't enough to 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:43.760 demoralize the people in Atlanta. Rather, the hesitation to build 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.480 on the momentum of a widely publicized direct action like 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.200 March fifth provided this state in opening while the movement 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.400 was stuck in limbo. Throughout this limbo phase, the movement 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.640 was adjusting from intensified momentum and the high octane aspects 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.480 to March fifth, But as the energy tapered down, the 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.960 state jumped on that dip in momentum then delta pretty 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.520 significant blow with the Rico indictment. The Rico charges in 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.400 August of twenty twenty three, followed by the series of 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.719 house raids in February of twenty twenty four, were a 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.800 pretty crippling one to punch that stifled the momentum to 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.920 almost a complete standstill. Quoting an Atlanta anarchist, a lot 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.840 of people will argue their opinions about what was the 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.280 stifling thing. I think some of the more electorally or 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.000 mass movement, big tent minded people would argue that, like 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.400 March fifth takes a lot of the wind out of 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.280 the sails. I think a lot of people would disagree 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.000 with that, just because like you can build on the 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.200 momentum of a March fifth, you can build on like 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.920 a triumphant battlefield victory, it's a lot harder to build 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.319 on just everyone getting more charges and also people getting 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.240 their doors kicked in really early in the morning. It's 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:06.120 hard to build on that. Despite the Rico charges, acts 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:11.840 of sabotage did continue, but isolated sabotage alone wasn't enough 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:16.520 to propel the movement. After the referendum campaign was effectively 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.080 nullified by the state and fall of twenty twenty three, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.080 there was a lack of willingness among its organizers to 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.760 engage in serious efforts to get people engaged in mass 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:30.640 actions or pressure campaigns targeted against elected officials, something multiple 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.280 activists in Atlanta have mentioned to me as a contributing 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.720 factor to the eventual decline in momentum during this limbo 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:41.000 stage is a sort of failure to prefigure alternative strategies 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.360 and adapt after the forest occupation became impossible to maintain, 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.000 especially considering just how much weight people had put into 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.160 that strategy, but then did not come up with a 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.360 clear next step after the police were able to suppress 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.440 that tactic by completing their ODA loops and improving their 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:04.480 own strateg The ODA loop is a four step military 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.560 decision making model used across a large variety of professional fields, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:12.240 including policing. Step one, observe, gather as much information as possible, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:18.160 then orient, synthesize an information with background knowledge, decide on 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:22.600 the next course of action using that newly synthesized information, 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.800 and finally act and the results of your actions should 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.320 then send you back to step one. Failure to act 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:35.000 at all or too slowly often ends in defeat. To 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.720 quote an anonymous Atlanta anarchist quote. You need contingency lines, right, 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.200 either things that you're willing to escalate in the current 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.000 line of strategy that you're doing to make it still viable, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.000 or a complete change in strategy. It could be changed 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.040 in tactics to something new and exciting. Either of those 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.280 are valid options. Doing both of them at the same 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.800 time can be extremely effective. But at the end of 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.480 the day, you have to when the cops start to 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.880 break out of paralysis. An example from any eco defense 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.800 or occupation, whether in Atlanta or somewhere else, when the 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.120 cops start to break out of that paralysis, you have 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.680 to escalate in some way. The occupation, the defense of it, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.200 has to escalate in some way to prevent them from 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.440 feeling safe coming in or trying to, or the physical 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.840 space of action has to change because now they need 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.160 to recalibrate to oh, shit, like, not only is the 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.360 occupation less assailable than we thought because there's been a 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.440 change in tactics, but there's also a massive uptick and 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.840 shit going on everywhere else and that significantly impedes their 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.000 ability to have an ODA loop to do battle with. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.280 You can even look at the ice pickups that got 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.080 a lot of attention in Worcester, Massachusetts. They were not 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.520 expecting that many people just to show up. You can 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.840 see when the crowd starts to hit like a critical 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.920 mass of rage and getting really close to those guys 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.160 that they fucking panic. They freak out like it. It's 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.080 very clear, even just in the small amount of their 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.320 faces and their movements that you can see that they 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.760 were panicking unquote. Similar scenes have since taken place in 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.040 Chicago and Portland, and I've seen this before with Bortec 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.560 during the twenty twenty protests in Portland. I think anyone 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.680 who has watched the cops retreat has seen this before. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.200 But the more the same thing happens, the more you 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.240 get used to it, the more you experiment and find 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.440 ways to adapt and overcome. Quoting an Atlanta anarchist quote, 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.120 cops panic, and you can see it in the way 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.360 they walk like they weren't ready for that, and next 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.040 time they might be, which means you have to add 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.440 something new, a new spice has to get thrown in, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.360 a new flavor profile. They'll get used to pushing through 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.400 crowds like that until someone hits them at the end 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.320 of the day, and whether you're like confronting them on 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.080 the ground or trying to get to the neighborhoods ahead 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.080 of time to knock people's doors to get them out. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.760 Eventually cops will start to find ways to counteract your strategy, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.120 but eventually you will have to reshift and recalibrate the 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:10.639 tools you are using to orient back to Atlanta. All 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.600 these instances I've mentioned amount to failing to take advantage 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.119 of key moments, whether that be in the aftermath of 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.720 March fifth, the seeming impossibility of continued forest encampments, or 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.199 of the city's blanket refusal to accept the results of 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.960 the referendum. In these moments, the police and the state 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.040 were able to determine where battle lines were drawn, and 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.160 quite literally so during the quote unquote block Cop City 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:42.800 protest in October twenty twenty three, where police easily repelled 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.240 a protest march from even reaching the road to the 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.879 Cop City construction site, and the state continued to push 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.720 their lines forward with the joint fbiatf raids on activist 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.240 houses in February twenty twenty four, which further stifled the 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.560 movement and was coupled with months to year year long 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.800 persistent surveillance and intimidation denoted by cops parked outside of 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.199 homes of alleged activists, mobile surveillance and hidden cameras placed 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.720 in front of activist homes and a local community center. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.280 One of the more frightening incidents came in May of 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.000 twenty twenty four, where a resident of one of the 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.080 homes rated that February woke up in the middle of 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.479 the night to a bright light outside of the bedroom window, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.679 only to find a lit road flare catching the wooden 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:44.800 railing of their porch steps on fire. One of the 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.000 things I've been reflecting on regarding Cop City is the 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.800 way people talked about fear as a tool. Frank Herbert's 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.399 Litany against Fear was a common refrain to overcome the 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.800 fear that this state used as a weapon. But the 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.840 first time I heard fear mentioned as an offensive measure 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.119 wasn't in reference to this state using fear. It was 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.159 in early twenty twenty two when I first visited the 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.560 forest encampment, and the anarchists talked about how the police 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:16.040 were scared of entering the forest, how delusions of Vietnam's 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.399 style booby traps demonstrated that the cups are not impervious 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:25.440 super soldiers. Instilling fear is a major aspect of police training. 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.360 They are susceptible to emotional impulses like all of us. 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:34.680 Quoting an Atlanta anarchist quote. But while we understand our 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.840 own fear, I think people often fall into the trap 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.440 of not understanding that the state is also afraid of them, 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.679 because the state feels like this monolithic machine, like this 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.879 unassailable entity, that it is not. It's made up of 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.240 people with flaws and emotions who have the same corrozol 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.840 response to being threatened that you or I do. A 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.159 big part of the lessons learned from an has to 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.120 be a willingness to engage with them in a way 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.160 that is personally endangering. That is the single way out. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.679 They're human and they get scared. The fear that I 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.639 think had them so tight until May of twenty twenty 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.840 two was a fear that manifested itself in a lot 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.000 of paralysis. Fear is a normal human emotion to danger. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.960 So whether you're the most hardened swat team guy going 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.600 up against the craziest to eco freak in the world, 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.119 fear is a normal reaction to that. But what really 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.159 had them so tight was fear as a matter of 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.160 them being paralyzed by it that they cannot find out 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.560 how to move. And once they did find out around 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.880 May of twenty twenty two, we really start to see 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.359 things change and like they were scared enough in the 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.680 woods to shoot someone to death, like they were still afraid. 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.159 We were able to instill an immense amount of fear 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.359 in our enemy, which is an absolutely necessary tool if 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.480 you're going to be on the very nimble, small green 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.840 team insurgency side of things, you have to make your 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.440 enemy afraid of the dark, but also you have your 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.440 defensive strategy against fear. You would hear all the time 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.640 in Atlanta, the whole let the fear wash over you 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.480 and through you mantra. That was a thing that people 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.880 talked about and said constantly, because you have to find 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:29.439 a way to move through that paralysis. Eventually, and with 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.240 the help of a multi agency task force, the cops 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.919 in Atlanta were able to move through that fear and 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.679 continue their actions. They were not totally paralyzed by it. 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:46.680 In contrast, the pseudo paralysis affecting Stop Cop City only 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.480 set in very late into the movement. As a cumulative 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:55.320 result of a coordinated sequence of oppression tactics. As the 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.760 movement has been winding down and transitioning to court support. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.760 Something people in Atlanta have had to balance is the 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.919 urge to keep stop Cop City in this sort of 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.639 un alive zombie state where you're still kind of acting 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.959 like it's an ongoing thing, even though the immediate local 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:20.080 result is pretty clearly finished. But in keeping this kind 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.879 of zombie version of the movement alive, it prevents you 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.600 from actually moving on and internalizing what happened here and 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.520 using that for whatever comes next, which is at this 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.240 point a burgeoning police state and right wing power block. 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:38.320 Quoting an anonymous Atlanta anarchist quote, internalizing not just in 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:41.480 terms of like lessons learned and things that you need 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.159 to learn from and skill up on to keep that 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.600 honed combative edge in Atlanta, but to think about fighting 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.119 on a larger scope than just Atlanta. As the cops 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.080 took their lessons learned here nationwide in terms of how 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:59.600 they're doing repression towards Palestinian liberation movements, towards a lot 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:02.760 of the way that ICE operations are currently happening. That 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.439 necessitates that we also take our lessons learned here and 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.040 also go to a larger scale with them. Also, if 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.720 you never close the book yourself on this battle that 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.879 you're a part of, which people incurred a massive amount 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.560 of trauma doing at a certain point, this could just 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.760 remain like an open wound on you forever if you 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:26.960 let it. And it is probably unhelpful to keep seeing 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.320 the movement to stop cop City is doing a rally here. 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.800 Like when it's built, it's there, and now we need 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.480 to move on to other things. We need to move 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.440 on to other things that are larger than Atlanta. There's 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.840 still a police state to engage with here. You don't 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.280 need the container of this struggle to justify going out 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:52.400 and taking action against the police. And there are other 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.720 things happening in Atlanta. There's ice rates happening in Atlanta 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.600 in the north suburbs of the city. Cop City is 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:03.080 actively being in and if people want to continue stopping it, 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.480 they'll have to actually stop what the effects are which 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:11.760 are now happening on a nationwide scale. An early irony 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:15.200 of the movement was that though cop City was conceived 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:19.520 as a training ground for police first, it became a 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:23.600 training ground for anarchists as topcop City became the first 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:27.840 mass movement following the twenty twenty George Floyd protests. Whatever 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:32.160 happened in Atlanta would demonstrate what activists have learned from 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:36.040 the twenty twenty uprising, as well as influence what future 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:40.280 movements against police expansion might look like. Atlanta Police Chief 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:44.719 Darren Sheerbaum expressed as much during the Public Safety Training 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:46.920 Center grand opening. 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:49.879 Because when Antifa put out its call for individuals to 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.479 rally here in this spot and on Peachtree Street from 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.600 across the nation and literally the globe, we were up 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:58.720 against a playbook we had never seen. At the Atlanta 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.879 Police Department, we ourselves put out the call for help, 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.919 and no sheriff said no, No police chief said no. 0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:09.679 The Georgia State Patrol, the Department Natural Resources should ste 0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:12.159 by side of this department, as did the FBI and 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:17.119 the ATF because we all knew that that playbook was 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:20.520 successful here in Atlanta, Georgia, it would find itself across 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:23.280 this country and public safety would be stymied wherever we go. 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:29.359 While Atlanta served as this training ground for anarchists, in response, 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:33.240 the state also used the movement to test out strategies 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:37.879 for the next generation of counter insurgency tactics, well before 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:42.040 the cop City facility was finished being built. Now, with 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:47.359 this specific localized struggle at completion, both organizers and the 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:51.280 state are carrying lessons forward as Trump expands police power, 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:55.560 deploys National Guard, increases ice operations, and continues repression against 0:25:55.600 --> 0:26:01.240 organizers protesting the Palestinian genocide. To quote in Atlanta anarchist quote, 0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:04.000 I think as a matter of reimagining the struggle that 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:08.200 you're a part of, insurrectionary struggle is often an imaginative one. 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.639 And if you were part of this thing here, you 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:14.800 are now like a veteran of the fight in Atlanta. 0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.520 This thing, like this specific thing that was defend the 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.639 Atlanta force stop cop City, is something to be learned 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:25.919 from and valued and also moved on from, and to 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:29.959 move on from while taking lessons learned, experience gained, and 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.560 connections made, and following those things through to their logical conclusion. 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.200 Such that the state has as well. They have taken 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:40.440 lessons learned from here and followed them through to their 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:45.280 nationwide logical conclusions. We are necessitated to do that as well. 0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:48.600 That doesn't mean you have given up. It just means 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.879 that there's new shit happening. It's helpful to re imagine 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.399 yourself not as just we're in Atlanta, we're doing stop 0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.440 coop City, to now you are engaged in a nationwide 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:05.119 anti fascist struggle against like a fascist police state unquote. 0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:08.800 This nationwide focus has always been an aspect of Stop 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.879 Cop City. One of the movement's key slogans was cop 0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:16.359 City is Everywhere. Organizers did speaking tours around the country 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:18.920 to educate about the movement, and thousands of people from 0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.240 all around the country and the world traveled to Atlanta 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:24.640 to participate in weeks of action. The physical fight Top 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:28.840 cop City also expanded outside of Atlanta with solidarity attacks 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.960 and direct actions as a part of the tertiary targeting 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:38.359 campaign against subcontractors and insurance companies. This nationwide drift also 0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:41.960 happened on the side of the state, with similar police 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.480 training facilities having been proposed in dozens of other cities, 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.120 and the strategies of repression used in Atlanta have been 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:54.040 copied on a national level. Quoting an Atlanta anarchist quote, 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:57.439 Now the cops are spreading out and their strategies and 0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:01.080 the strategies of repression both militantly on the ground and legally, 0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:04.480 and even their propaganda and their messaging has gone outwards 0:28:04.520 --> 0:28:07.760 from here, and so too, then must our lessons learned 0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:11.520 both in how we prepare and engage in struggle in Atlanta, 0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:13.879 but also how we make connections to the rest of 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:16.800 the country. People who came here are now back home 0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:19.879 and will make connections to the people around them. The 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.120 cops in different cities, they have big conferences, They talk 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:25.480 to each other, they learn from each other. There's no 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:28.679 reason that we shouldn't be, you know, doing so with 0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:32.520 caution and security culture. Don't have your Atlanta veteran hat on, 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:37.040 but we have things to learn from each other. And 0:28:37.240 --> 0:28:39.880 if you were here, you've got a lot to potentially 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:43.280 teach people, even if that was just like here's how 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.160 we fucking run a kitchen where we cook for like 0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:47.760 four hundred people in a day, or here's how we 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:52.720 sneak around in the middle of the night. This is 0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:56.000 a representative of the Fire and Movement defense at a 0:28:56.080 --> 0:29:00.280 cop City trial press conference from September twenty twenty five. 0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:04.160 The horrors we predicted have come to pass. Federal agents 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:07.640 now stock communities from coast to coast, masked and unnamed 0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:14.360 snatching people from buses, farms, kitchens, and churches. Who can 0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:17.000 argue now that we were wrong to resist the endless 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:22.840 expansion of police power, now that Trump commands them, now 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:26.160 that they are his police. The very people who helped 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:29.960 lay the groundwork now scramble to distance themselves from his orders, 0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:34.320 his camps, his federal troop deployments. But they built the logistics, 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:39.200 they funded the training centers, they expanded the surveillance. Liberal 0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:42.200 governments like Atlantis helped pave the way for the descent 0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:44.800 of our country into autocracy. 0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:50.960 As Merlincrats of the Atlanta Solidarity Fund told the New Republic, quote, 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:55.000 what's happening in Atlanta is a vision of the future. 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:58.720 This is a test run of a represses playbook that 0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:02.360 authorities on many different levels are experimenting with to discover 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:07.400 what they can get away with. Let's look at some 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:12.520 examples of expanding surveillance, increasing police resources, and these strategies 0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.760 for counter insertaency that are spreading in the era of 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:20.360 Trump two point zero. In January of this year, Georgia 0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:25.680 Representative Marjorie Taylor Green introduced a resolution titled deeming certain 0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:31.520 conduct of members of Antifa as domestic terrorism and designating 0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:36.160 Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization, which the measure justifies 0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:41.480 by referencing multiple instances of protesters in Atlanta being charged 0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:46.640 with domestic terrorism. The Atlanta based surveillance company Flock Safety, 0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:50.840 gained early notoriety for their camera towers placed around the 0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:55.040 slated Copcity construction site in the South River Forest, which 0:30:55.160 --> 0:31:01.120 protesters repeatedly toppled. Flock has grown massively the past four years, 0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:05.720 with over eighty thousand quote unquote AI powered cameras in 0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:11.120 forty nine states. These cameras complete over twenty billion scans 0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:14.760 per month. Flock cameras and license plate readers have spread 0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:17.920 all around the country and are used by all manners 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:21.280 of agencies, including ICE, as well as Texas sheriffs, who 0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:24.840 have used the nationwide camera network to track pregnant women 0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:29.520 seeking abortions. Border Patrol has used Atlanta's local Flock camera 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:33.240 network to make over three thousand and two hundred searches 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:37.760 from January to November twenty twenty five. In April twenty 0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:41.960 twenty five, President Trump signed an executive order titled Strengthening 0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:45.560 and Unleashing America's Law Enforcement to pursue criminals and protect 0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:50.320 innocent citizens. This order calls to quote unleash high impact 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.560 local police forces, protect and defend law enforcement officers wrongly 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.320 accused and abused by state or local officials, and surge 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:01.080 resources to officers in need unquote. It directs the Attorney 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:03.920 General to create a mechanism to have private sector law 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:06.920 firms provide pro bono legal events to police officers who 0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:11.320 quote unjustly incur expenses and liabilities for actions taken during 0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:13.840 the performance of their official duties to enforce the law. 0:32:15.080 --> 0:32:16.600 This tries to make it harder for police to be 0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:21.320 held accountable for both civil and criminal misconduct, basically extending 0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:25.920 qualified immunity to the criminal realm. The order also calls 0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:30.280 to use federal resources to increase pay, expand training, and 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:34.200 strengthen legal protections for police officers, as well as to 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:37.960 quote seek enhanced sentences for crimes against LA enforcement officers, 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:41.480 promote investment in the security and capacity of prisons, and 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:46.040 increase the investment in and collection, distribution and uniformity of 0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:52.080 crime data across jurisdictions. The Attorney General is directed to 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:57.719 review and remove any previous accountability restrictions placed on local 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:01.640 or state law enforcement agencies that might unduly impede the 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:06.640 performance of law enforcement functions. And then finally, quote the 0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:09.440 Attorney General and the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:13.120 Secretary of Homeland Security and the heads of agencies as appropriate, 0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:18.000 shall increase the provision of excess military and national security 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:22.440 assets in local jurisdictions to assist state and local law enforcement. 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:26.440 And shall determine how military and national security assets, training, 0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:31.200 non lethal capabilities, and personnel can most effectively be utilized 0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:37.520 to prevent crime. As the police become further militarized, the 0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:41.560 military prepares to do more policing. One of the executive 0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:45.920 orders from Trump's police takeover of Washington d C contains 0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.520 a section directing the Secretary of Defense to quote designate 0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:53.320 an appropriate number of each state's trained National Guard members 0:33:53.560 --> 0:33:58.480 to be reasonably available for rapid mobilization to assist federal, state, 0:33:58.920 --> 0:34:02.840 and local law enforcement in quelling civil disturbances, and that 0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:09.440 quote a standing National Guard quick reaction force shall be resourced, trained, 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:15.040 and available for a rapid nationwide deployment unquote. Later, in 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.919 October of twenty twenty five, the Department of Defense sent 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:21.960 out memos to each state's National Guard mandating that each 0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:26.560 state have their own Quick Reaction Forces operational by January first, 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:30.279 twenty twenty six, with crowd control equipment and two full 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.319 time trainers by the National Guard Bureau being provided to 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:37.720 each unit. The units contain, on average, five hundred troops 0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:41.399 per state, ordered to be ready to deploy within eight 0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:45.400 to twenty four hours. The initial portion of the Bureau 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:49.399 training courses cover how to quote form squad sized riot 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:52.520 control formations, employ a riot baton as member of a 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.520 riot control formation, how to supervise a riot slash, crowd 0:34:56.560 --> 0:35:02.120 control operation, crowd management techniques, and de domestic civil disturbance training. 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:03.080 Quote. 0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:07.840 On September twenty second, Trump signed an executive order designating 0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:12.040 Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization. Three days later, Trump 0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:17.480 signed the National Security Presidential Memorandum seven on Countering Domestic 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:21.520 Terrorism and Organized Political Violence, which calls for a new 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:25.120 national law enforcement strategy to quote investigate all participants of 0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:29.279 these criminal and terroristic conspiracies and disrupt networks, entities and 0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:33.520 organizations that foment political violence so that law enforcement can 0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:38.640 intervene in criminal conspiracies before they result in violent political acts. 0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:44.120 The memo orders local joint Terrorism task forces to quote 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:48.799 investigate potential federal crimes relating to acts of recruiting or 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:54.520 radicalizing persons for the purpose of political violence, terrorism, or 0:35:54.560 --> 0:36:00.000 conspiracy against rights, as well as investigating institutional and dad 0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:04.840 and individual funders, including employees of organizations which are quote 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.920 responsible for, sponsor or otherwise aid in a bet the 0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:13.520 principal actors engaging in the criminal conduct unquote. As previously described, 0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:16.239 the Treasury Secretary will work with the Atorney General to 0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:20.560 quote identify and disrupt financial networks that fund domestic terrorism 0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:24.800 and political violence, and shall deploy investigative tools to examine 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:29.000 financial flows and coordinate with partner agencies to trace illicit 0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:33.640 funding streams. The memo also instructs the IRS to quote 0:36:33.680 --> 0:36:37.160 take action to ensure that no tax exempt entities are 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:42.600 directly or indirectly financing political violence or domestic terrorism unquote, 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:46.120 and that the IRS shall refer organizations and their employees 0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:50.440 to the Department of Justice for investigation and possible prosecution. 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:55.799 Quoting the memo one final time, quote, investigations shall prioritize 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:59.719 crimes such as the following assaulting federal officers or employees, 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.960 conspiracy against rights, conspiracy to commit offense solicitation to commit 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:08.160 a crime of violence, money laundering, funding of terrorist acts, 0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:14.440 or otherwise facilitating terrorism arson, violations of the Racketeer Influenced 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:18.719 and Corrupt Organizations ACT RICO, and major fraud against the 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:26.920 United States. At Trump's White House ANTIFO roundtable meeting, Seamus Bruner, 0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:30.719 the director of research at the Government Accountability Institute, discussed 0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:34.440 his theory of how a network of NGOs are funding ANTIFA, 0:37:34.960 --> 0:37:37.280 and specifically mentioned Stop Cop City. 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.760 There was an event in Atlanta called Stop Cop City. 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:45.880 Over sixty rioters were charged with domestic terrorism. These groups 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:49.719 received money for that from both the billionaire class as 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:51.040 well as tax payer money. 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:56.120 So On May one, twenty twenty five, Homeland Security Investigations 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.759 Secret Service and the acting ICE Director rated a home 0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:03.560 in Irving, California, looking for a man who allegedly posted 0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:07.120 flyers around Los Angeles containing the names, pictures, and phone 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:11.520 numbers of ICE agents with text in Spanish reading careful 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:16.319 with these faces. In April of twenty twenty three, three 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:21.360 activists were arrested for allegedly posting flyers identifying a police 0:38:21.400 --> 0:38:25.320 officer connected to the killing of Tortigita on the mailboxes 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:29.480 in that officer's neighborhood in Barlow County, Georgia, about forty 0:38:29.520 --> 0:38:33.520 miles from Atlanta. The activists were charged with felony intimidation 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.440 and were later added to the Cop City Weako case. 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:51.920 To circle back to the topic of fear, the targeting 0:38:52.000 --> 0:38:56.160 of people putting up flyers simply identifying cops or anonymous 0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:01.240 ICE agents demonstrates how the state understands as a weapon. 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.279 That's why they did the reco charges, That's why they 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:07.440 do the house raids, that's why they do overt surveillance 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:10.719 where you're getting followed around by police. But they are 0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:15.520 susceptible to fear as well. Through their actions, ICE demonstrates 0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:18.920 a high level of fear. They are taking massive steps 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:21.120 to hide the identities of ICE agents on the ground 0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:25.759 and punishing people who attempt to identify these agents. They're 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:29.239 complaining about being compared to Nazis and called the Gestapo. 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:34.240 They're referencing very dubious statistics about an increase in assaults 0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:37.439 against officers, and they are afraid enough to shoot their 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:40.440 guns at unarmed people more than half a dozen times 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:44.120 in the past six months. They are scared and as 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:48.920 evil and super soldiery as they may seem they are 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:54.280 indeed afraid, to quote an anonymous Atlanta anarchist quote, unless 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:58.800 you do something to keep them afraid, Eventually it will stop. 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:02.120 Unless you change your stread, change course, escalate in some 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:05.560 way that shatters their ODA loop, they will break free 0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:07.680 of their paralysis and they will find a way through 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.160 their fear. So when that starts to happen, it's time 0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:12.840 to do something new and insane, because you have to 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:16.640 keep them afraid, because like by every moral right, they 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:20.600 should be. They should be fucking terrified to leave their homes. 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:23.080 And if they are too afraid to leave their homes, 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:26.560 then they can't go out and do their jobs at 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.000 the end of the day. That's their ODA loop right there. 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:32.200 The scale of fear as a tool of repression is 0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:36.920 always exponentially larger than this scale of physical or legal repression. 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:40.000 It punches well above its weight. You can look at 0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:42.040 Atlanta as a good example of this, and you can 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:45.000 even look at some of the arrests made in response 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:50.400 to Palestinian liberation protests. It takes black bagging six people 0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:55.160 to paralyze six thousand because it's terrifying, because it's scary, 0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:57.880 like it's fucked up. That's a bad thing to have 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:01.160 happened to you, And like, of course, people are afraid. 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.600 Fear is one of those things that if you're engaging 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.719 an anti fascist struggle, whether you're an anti fascist, whether 0:41:06.719 --> 0:41:09.279 you're an anarchist or whatever, all of us have an 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.560 ethical obligation to ourselves and the people around us to 0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:15.319 push through fear as an emotion, to find ways to 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.200 work with it, because it won't go away, and it shouldn't. 0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:21.799 Fear can also keep you safe, but we are necessitated 0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:23.840 by the political moment we are in to find a 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:29.640 way to take extensive action in spite of that. Unquote. 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:32.960 Twenty twenty was a lot of people's first experience with 0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:36.239 mass protest, and some of the people then carry those 0:41:36.280 --> 0:41:40.520 experiences into Copcity. But then for other people, Stop cop 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:43.000 City was their first experience. And now you have an 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:46.520 even younger generation of people, the Gen Alpha terrorists, who 0:41:46.520 --> 0:41:48.920 aren't even old enough to have been involved in Atlanta. 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:52.960 But people are still looking at what happened in Atlanta 0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:57.400 as this bridge gap between twenty twenty and twenty twenty five, 0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:01.040 the movement to Stop Cop City as the bridge between 0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:06.160 these two different eras of uprising and resistance against authoritarianism. 0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:10.840 As the Copsity chapter closes, activists in Atlanta want people 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:13.880 to carry on what's been learned in the contents of 0:42:14.160 --> 0:42:19.120 their struggle onto whatever the next volume is. Because cop 0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:21.239 City itself is in a sequence of events that have 0:42:21.320 --> 0:42:25.440 happened beyond and longer than what me or anyone involved 0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:29.920 in Copsity has been alive by generations. Cop City is 0:42:29.920 --> 0:42:33.560 not Volume one. Cop City is volume like thirty two, 0:42:33.640 --> 0:42:37.120 but at the same time, it's also the immediate prequel 0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:41.480 to the rise of a nationwide expansion of police power 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:45.279 and surveillance led by a wanna be right wing strong man. 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:48.600 Quoting an Atlanta anarchist quote, a big lesson learned from 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:51.439 Atlanta is that it is way safer to do shit 0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:54.319 in the middle of the night than anything else. We've 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:57.720 had exactly one arrest made over the years, and arrest 0:42:57.760 --> 0:43:01.120 that's not gone to trial. This is an alleged crime 0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:05.960 of one midnight sabotage action of the dozens and dozens 0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:09.160 and dozens of ursins that have happened, and this arrest 0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:12.040 happened very late into the movement, out of the dozens 0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:14.720 and dozens of attacks that have happened. Only one arrest 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:20.440 has been made after the fact. Another lesson learned is 0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:24.600 the difficulty of daily counter surveillance and how much that 0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:29.359 requires militancy as a daily practice to again, quote from 0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:33.759 an anonymous anarchist in Atlanta, quote, militant anarchism as a 0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:37.560 daily practice understanding your adversary not just as this thing 0:43:37.640 --> 0:43:40.040 that you meet on the field for twenty minutes of 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.920 action and then you both go home and like call it, 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:47.000 but that they are constantly pursuing you, That you are 0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:51.160 being like hunted for sport, and you have to evade 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:55.560 and maneuver constantly. That security culture is a persistent thing 0:43:55.920 --> 0:44:00.319 throughout the years, that you are going to continually keep 0:44:00.360 --> 0:44:02.200 having to be a part of it and do so 0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:06.520 in a very disciplined way. Unquote. A lot of the 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:09.799 success that Stop Cop City achieved was based on a 0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:15.280 willingness to take an extremely militant approach to pre figurative infrastructure, 0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:20.160 which added longevity to the combative struggle. Both were necessitated 0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:23.919 as symbiotic elements of this same creature. Throughout the Cop 0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:26.920 City struggle, organizers and activists learned that if you're not 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.439 always able to engage in a directly combative fight. Using 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:34.960 militancy and discipline in their infrastructural projects the same way 0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:37.960 they would in a combative engagement helps prepare for what 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:41.960 will be necessary when things do turn combative. Quoting an 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:46.440 Atlanta anarchist quote, the state is this constantly churning machine, 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:49.200 like it is always trying to acquire new tools and 0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:52.640 equipment and lessons, and we can't just sit still while 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:55.080 they do this and be like, Okay, Well, at some 0:44:55.200 --> 0:44:57.879 point in four to five years, a flashpoint will happen 0:44:57.920 --> 0:44:59.759 at the place that I live, and I'll go out 0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:01.440 there and I'll be like I was in Atlanta. So 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:03.640 I'll be good because I remember how to do all that. 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:07.160 Because if you do nothing for the next four to 0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:10.360 five years, we're just going to be reinventing the wheel 0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:13.960 over and over again, and all the fucked up trauma 0:45:14.000 --> 0:45:18.359 that you incurred doing that won't have been helpful at 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:21.280 all if you don't remember the skills learned on the ground, 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:26.560 because all skills atrophy and get weaker over time. Looking 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:30.239 back at stop Coopa City won't provide all the answers 0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:34.400 to solve the problems facing the country today, especially in 0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:37.680 light of the end result of the movement, but it 0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:41.279 would be a mistake to overlook the ways stop Copacity 0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:44.680 made a legitimate impact on the resulting facility and the 0:45:44.680 --> 0:45:48.560 political situation in Atlanta and beyond. I think there's ways 0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:52.359 of looking at degrees of success the movement had while 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:56.200 still recognizing its obvious shortcomings, considering the fact that there 0:45:56.280 --> 0:46:00.480 is a facility called the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center, 0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:04.040 but a small group of activists turned a proposed police 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:08.799 training facility into a national political issue. Its opening was 0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:13.200 delayed by years at at least thirty million dollars over budget, 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:18.000 and the current facility lacks the full mock city design 0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:21.920 that it initially had, which inspired the cop City namesake. 0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:26.560 Moving forward, both these successes and shortcomings will be internalized 0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:30.120 by thousands of people who traveled to or lived in 0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:33.160 Atlanta and joined in the movement to Stop cop City. 0:46:33.680 --> 0:46:38.360 As Trump now signs executive orders expanding military equipment, federal training, 0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:41.640 and legal protections for police, deploys the National Guard to 0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:46.680 quell civil disturbance, and targets anti fascists, anarchists, and left 0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:51.840 wing activists or ENGOs as domestic terrorists. Quoting an Atlanta 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:55.440 anarchist quote, What we are seeing is the logical conclusion 0:46:55.560 --> 0:46:59.640 of our adversaries lessons learned in Atlanta, taking the things 0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.240 that they learned how to do here, the skills they honed, 0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:07.400 taken to a nationwide scale. This is the logical conclusion 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:09.839 of that, and there's a reason that they are doing that, 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:12.560 and if they are doing that, then we should also 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:17.400 do that. Like there's logical conclusions and escalations of the 0:47:17.400 --> 0:47:19.840 things that we learned in Atlanta, that it would be 0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:22.640 silly for us to not try and push those further, 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:29.239 including expanding the physical and metaphysical terrain of battle. The 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:33.120 immediate terrain for Stop Coopcity was obviously the forest and 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:37.399 now the cop City site itself, but there was also 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:40.920 the rest of Atlanta and all the other construction sites, 0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:44.360 and then all these subcontractors around the country and everything 0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:48.040 that supplies them. This same model can apply to, say, 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:52.360 the Palestine protests. There's a network that exists beyond Columbia 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:57.040 University campus that extends into the weapons manufacturing industry, which 0:47:57.080 --> 0:48:00.759 could be targeted beyond consumer boycotts, like what we saw 0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:03.920 was shack but what we saw in Atlanta, where boycotts 0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:07.840 were an aspect, but by far not the most effective aspect, 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:14.040 and in fact, forcefully inflicting monetary damage caused a much 0:48:14.160 --> 0:48:17.480 greater degree of hurt to the companies involved in the 0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:21.520 Copsity project as opposed to the infighting caused by a 0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:26.760 waffle House boycott. When reframing what the terrain of battle 0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:31.200 could entail, it is actually intimidating to think about what 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:35.839 the reality of stopping these things might look like. And 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:39.280 as soon as you realize that these fights go beyond 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:44.160 a physical building, it becomes this love crafty and entity 0:48:44.280 --> 0:48:49.399 that exists everywhere, and it's unnerving to contemplate what you'd 0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:54.320 be forced to do to actually realistically confront that. Quoting 0:48:54.360 --> 0:48:57.640 an anonymous Atlanta anarchist quote, it's important to not get 0:48:57.640 --> 0:49:00.200 trapped in the you know, we're doing an occupation on 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:02.120 college campus. We're just going to keep trying to do 0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:05.680 an occupation on college campus over and over again, and 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:07.760 the CoP's really good at clearing us up. But now 0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:10.880 maybe this time. And I think a part of the 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:15.600 struggle here though, for people is when you decentralize like that, 0:49:16.200 --> 0:49:18.600 the thing that you're doing starts to take on a 0:49:18.760 --> 0:49:23.120 much different vibe. It can be everywhere versus this is 0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:26.399 the college campus where we're doing protest. I generally think 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:27.759 at the end of the day, it starts to feel 0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:31.840 a little bit too much like terrorismy, it starts to 0:49:31.840 --> 0:49:34.719 feel too much like an insurgency, and you see the path, 0:49:34.760 --> 0:49:37.120 you see the Pandora's box start to open up a 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:40.600 little bit, and you back off because it's scary and 0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:43.920 that this thing will kill you. This thing will try 0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:46.120 and kill you eventually, if you push it far enough, 0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:49.080 it will try and kill you, and I might succeed. 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:53.120 And like, that's just the reality of engaging with fascism 0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:56.640 combatively as an ideology, it's the reality of engaging with 0:49:56.760 --> 0:50:00.440 advanced capitalism. That was the reality of engaging with the 0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:04.480 police state, one that is well understood in Atlanta and 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:08.319 in many other places that this isn't a game. You're 0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:11.480 not going to get anywhere, just kind of sitting on 0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:15.520 the same college campus green over and over again, hoping 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:20.640 for a different result. And as we've seen this year 0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:25.000 with the State Department cracking down on pro Palestine protests, 0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:28.520 just sitting there on the college green doesn't prevent you 0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:31.120 from being black bagged by the FEDS, taken to a 0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:36.000 black site, and deported to close the episode. In September 0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:39.360 twenty twenty four, the Georgia Attorney General's Office dropped the 0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:44.240 money laundering charges against the organizers with the Atlanta Solidarity Fund, 0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:48.480 though the defendants still remained on the reco indictment. Almost 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:51.560 a full year later, on September ninth, twenty twenty five, 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:56.160 the defense successfully argued that the State AG's office did 0:50:56.200 --> 0:51:00.239 not have the jurisdictional authority to prosecute this sixth sixty 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:05.080 one defendants under the state's Rico statute due to simple 0:51:05.239 --> 0:51:09.200 procedural error in neglecting to first ask the governor if 0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:12.160 the AG's office could prosecute this case. Judge Farmer found 0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:14.320 that the AG does not have the authority to prosecute 0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:18.560 count one of the reco indictment, the racketeering and conspiracy charges. 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:23.080 Without the sweeping Rico charges engulfing the sixty one defendants, 0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:25.560 just five defendants would be left with Count two of 0:51:25.560 --> 0:51:29.040 the indictment, the domestic terrorism charges, which the AG does 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:33.080 have authority to prosecute, and Count three, the arson charge, 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:36.560 though Judge Farmer indicated that that charge could also be 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:41.000 thrown out on a similar technicality. The prosecution is appealing 0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:45.400 this decision, and the defenses argued that the state domestic 0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:49.200 terrorism law violates a constitution and is far too broad 0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:53.120 and should be altered or overturned. Judge Farmer has yet 0:51:53.160 --> 0:51:56.560 to rule on this, but he's expected to very soon. 0:51:57.640 --> 0:52:01.799 Some of the sixty one defendants could face charges individually 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:04.600 in Fulton in a Cab County, but that remains to 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:09.000 be seen. The referendum case is still under appeal in 0:52:09.080 --> 0:52:12.840 federal court, and the case against Jack Mazurich is still 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:16.200 in pre trial. Just because the Cop City trial is 0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:21.400 finally progressing does not mean that movement participants are safe now. 0:52:21.800 --> 0:52:24.920 Quoting an anonymous Atlanta anarchists quote, people should be very 0:52:24.920 --> 0:52:27.160 mindful going into the trial phase that that does not 0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:29.920 mean that they are safe. There is no statute of 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:32.840 limitations on a lot of this stuff. Like with a 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.239 lot of radical movements, You're gonna have to hold a 0:52:35.239 --> 0:52:38.359 lot of that shit forever. Rely on support structures, rely 0:52:38.400 --> 0:52:42.320 on your community, be careful about who you talk to. Unquote. 0:52:43.320 --> 0:52:46.680 As Stop Coop City becomes history, there will be an 0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:50.480 influx of people trying to define the legacy of the movement, 0:52:50.520 --> 0:52:55.439 whether that's through podcasts, documentaries, a college dissertation or who 0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:59.520 knows how many books are incoming. There already has been 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:03.880 a true crimification of the movement in certain coverage which 0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:07.680 grossly objectifies the life of Torti Guita, platforms police as 0:53:08.080 --> 0:53:12.520 more objective than movement participants and removes autonomy from key 0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:18.000 subjects to reframe the entire movement around other public facing individuals. 0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:22.759 To quote an Atlanta anarchist one final time quote, I 0:53:22.800 --> 0:53:25.520 think a big lesson from Atlanta, and this is one 0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:28.840 that we actually still have to win at is to 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:32.920 not let outside forces, whether that be the state or capital, 0:53:33.280 --> 0:53:36.960 define the ending. That is a scope of battle that 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:40.080 we are still engaged with and still have to win. 0:53:40.719 --> 0:53:43.200 We need to close the book on it ourselves. We 0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:46.919 need to rubber stamp it ourselves. No other entity can 0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:50.319 do that for us. It would be disastrous if they did. 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:56.480 Unquote this has been it could happen here. See you 0:53:56.520 --> 0:54:16.200 on the other side. This is it could happen here. 0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:19.279 Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the 0:54:19.280 --> 0:54:21.239 White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:23.880 I'm Garrison Davis today I'm joined by James Stout and 0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:27.120 Robert Evans. Yes, this episode recovering the week of November 0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:29.480 nineteen to November twenty fourth. 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:33.279 Boy, this year's just blown by yeah fast, Yeah yeah. 0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:35.520 They sped up the time stream. You know what else? 0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:39.759 Sped up the time stream watching something on Twitter blow 0:54:39.840 --> 0:54:42.200 up again. We can't seem to stop talking about this 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:46.239 fucking website, and I'm tired of it. But the big 0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:51.480 news this week from Elon Musk's fucking vanity propagana app 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.120 is see Everything Happen That they introduced a new feature 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:56.920 to let you know the location of the account and 0:54:57.160 --> 0:54:59.319 also the number of like name changes, like how many 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:01.720 user name change it's had since the account has started. 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:05.440 I would say within sort of progressive and liberal circles. 0:55:05.880 --> 0:55:09.359 The common interpretation of what's happened is best summarized by 0:55:09.400 --> 0:55:13.839 this Daily Beast headline, top MAGA influencers accidentally unmasked as 0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:17.400 foreign trolls. No shit Now, As is often the case, 0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:20.520 this isn't entirely accurate. Not to say that there's not 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:23.080 a shitload of foreign trolls who are making money by 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:27.439 pretending to be American MAGA influencers. There definitely are. We've 0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:30.120 known about this since well before this Twitter change. One 0:55:30.160 --> 0:55:33.040 of the most prominent people on Musk's Twitter, Ian Miles Chong, 0:55:33.400 --> 0:55:35.279 is a Malaysian man who has never been to the 0:55:35.360 --> 0:55:39.879 United States and publishes nothing but maga content. Now, what's 0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:42.759 happened here? You can find going through there's a bunch 0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:45.240 of threads. There's threads on Blue Sky, threads on Twitter 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:48.239 threads and various articles that are basically all copies of 0:55:48.280 --> 0:55:51.080 each other that are collecting a bunch of these accounts 0:55:51.120 --> 0:55:53.000 that have been busted, right. One good example would be 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:56.799 the Magination verified account, which has almost four hundred thousand followers. 0:55:57.280 --> 0:56:00.440 Started in twenty twenty four, it's had five named changes 0:56:00.480 --> 0:56:03.440 since October twenty twenty five, and it is based in 0:56:03.560 --> 0:56:05.640 Eastern Europe non EU. 0:56:05.920 --> 0:56:06.879 Yeah, that's mega nation. 0:56:07.160 --> 0:56:08.440 Yeah yeah yeah. 0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:10.360 A lot of people have taken to mean like it's Russian, 0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:14.160 right yeah. Another account is the Ivanka News Trump, which 0:56:14.280 --> 0:56:16.960 displays as Ivanka Trump even though it has nothing to 0:56:17.000 --> 0:56:19.400 do with her, which it does note in its Twitter bio. 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:22.560 The account was started in twenty ten, it has had 0:56:22.640 --> 0:56:25.680 eleven user changes since August of twenty twenty four, and 0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:28.399 it is apparently based in Nigeria. You have to see 0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:31.799 it you're seeing like aload a shitload of stuff like this, right, 0:56:31.840 --> 0:56:34.319 and it's being taken unfortunately. I think this is a 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:37.000 mistake and I hate to be like the hey, guys, 0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:39.359 stop being happy about this, but you should because you're 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:42.520 wrong about what's happening here. Most people are like the 0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:45.800 Daily Beast account posts some liberal Twitter account being like 0:56:45.880 --> 0:56:48.760 this is total armageddon for the online right. It's looking 0:56:48.800 --> 0:56:50.960 like half of their large accounts were foreigners posting as 0:56:51.000 --> 0:56:54.000 Americans all along. Now, let me clarify a couple things. 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:57.359 For one thing, nothing that Elon has done here, Nothing 0:56:57.360 --> 0:57:00.560 that Twitter has revealed has proven that these account exist 0:57:00.600 --> 0:57:03.920 in any particular country. I'm going to explain why a 0:57:03.960 --> 0:57:07.239 lot of people use something called a VPN, and a 0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:12.480 VPN masks the location that you're browsing and logging in from, right, 0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:15.279 and you can use a VPN to look like you're 0:57:15.320 --> 0:57:18.880 posting from almost any country on the planet. And there 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:21.960 is no evidence whatsoever that Twitter has done anything at 0:57:22.040 --> 0:57:24.560 all to deal with this, right to like make sure 0:57:24.560 --> 0:57:28.000 that they're getting someone's actual location. A bunch of accounts, 0:57:28.000 --> 0:57:30.520 a bunch of like people have pointed out like, hey, look, 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:32.800 this is saying I'm from a country that I've literally 0:57:32.840 --> 0:57:35.760 never been to, like, here's my information. I'm very transparent. 0:57:35.960 --> 0:57:40.560 And there have also been organizations, including liberal coded organizations, 0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:43.720 that have been mistakenly identified as coming from a country 0:57:43.760 --> 0:57:45.520 that they are not set up. And for example, the 0:57:45.560 --> 0:57:48.360 Planned Parenthood account was showing us from Germany, which has 0:57:48.520 --> 0:57:51.160 ignited this conspiracy theory on the right, the Planned Parenthood 0:57:51.200 --> 0:57:56.200 is some European fucking influence op in the United States. Now, 0:57:56.200 --> 0:57:59.240 they used a VPN because they're in danger because it's 0:57:59.280 --> 0:58:00.640 Planned parent right. 0:58:00.720 --> 0:58:02.800 No, I mean I ran into a very similar situation 0:58:02.920 --> 0:58:05.600 because I mostly use Twitter to look at yowie now 0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:09.000 and when I was in Germany last month, it wouldn't 0:58:09.080 --> 0:58:10.840 let me look at the AWI without putting in my 0:58:10.880 --> 0:58:14.640 government ID for like age verification, sure of course, and 0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:18.520 then the state hits garrison, so obviously a non starter. 0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:21.120 I'm not I'm not. I'm not giving X the everything 0:58:21.160 --> 0:58:23.440 app my government ID to allow me to look at 0:58:23.520 --> 0:58:25.640 YAWI in Germany, so instead I had to put on 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:28.040 the VPN. So I'm back into States and then I 0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:30.360 can look at the YAWI. So it's basically the same 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:32.240 situation between me and Planned Parenthood here. 0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:36.080 Yes, I've said often that you and planned parenthood basically 0:58:36.120 --> 0:58:40.720 identical beings. What's happening here is it is worth talking about. 0:58:40.840 --> 0:58:42.960 But it's worth talking about not because we suddenly know 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:45.400 the truth that it's been revealed about. We don't really 0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:48.320 know anything more than we did before this change came in, right. 0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:50.720 Well except Robert, I mean the biggest the biggest news 0:58:50.760 --> 0:58:52.840 is that the DHS has been a massad operation this 0:58:52.920 --> 0:58:53.440 last time. 0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:54.960 Yes, that's right, Yes. 0:58:54.960 --> 0:58:56.760 Like we've always suspected. 0:58:57.440 --> 0:59:00.320 Yeah, so the the Department of Homeland Security out I 0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:04.280 think it was got listed as having been based in Israel. 0:59:04.760 --> 0:59:07.840 This is not real. This isn't even x fucking up. 0:59:07.880 --> 0:59:11.200 Somebody just edited a screenshot and there's so many of 0:59:11.240 --> 0:59:14.040 these going around, hundreds and hundreds of them, right that 0:59:14.080 --> 0:59:17.720 this just kind of got shuffled in to the flood 0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:21.320 and a lot of people didn't catch it, right, and 0:59:21.360 --> 0:59:24.000 it just gets integrated into people's beliefs about the world. Right. 0:59:24.080 --> 0:59:27.280 This is a standard story with how Twitter works now. 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:29.800 And this is, by the way, is overall I think 0:59:29.880 --> 0:59:32.440 beneficial to Musk and his kind of people, which is 0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:36.120 that we know less every day about the world. There's 0:59:36.160 --> 0:59:40.440 more disinformation about what's happening. People are less keyed in 0:59:40.480 --> 0:59:44.440 on reality and more just getting locked into different delusions. 0:59:44.840 --> 0:59:47.600 Like that's what the story is here, which is that 0:59:48.160 --> 0:59:51.680 this app and the way that social media in general works, 0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:54.440 particularly in this age, each of these changes, even the 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:57.720 ones that get celebrated as having revealed something, are just 0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:02.200 fogging up reality, and they're doing it in such a 1:00:02.240 --> 1:00:04.479 way as to make it so that like, no one 1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:07.160 knows anything about what's going on. Right, this is like 1:00:07.200 --> 1:00:09.920 that this is the standard playbook that you've been getting 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:12.800 out of like authoritarian regimes from forever. Right. What's important 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:15.360 is not that just their propaganda be out. It's that 1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:18.160 there's not really any any way for there to be 1:00:18.240 --> 1:00:21.160 a consensus reality, because if there's at consensus reality, then 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:24.680 you can't put together a large enough block of people 1:00:24.760 --> 1:00:27.920 who all believe basically the same things about reality to 1:00:28.000 --> 1:00:31.240 stop what's going on. Right, That's what's happening here, And 1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:33.960 you're wrong if you're looking at this is good. If 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:36.240 you believe that this has blown up the right and 1:00:36.280 --> 1:00:38.840 that this has done damage to them, they're saying the 1:00:38.920 --> 1:00:41.920 same things about you and about the left. Because a 1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:45.120 shitload of people use VPNs and you can always cherry 1:00:45.120 --> 1:00:47.320 pick a bunch of and I'm not again, none of 1:00:47.320 --> 1:00:48.760 that I'm saying is not saying that they're in a 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:53.160 shitload Like Elon has specifically incentivized foreign accounts in different 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:56.800 countries to make money by getting into the US culture war, right, 1:00:57.040 --> 1:00:59.600 that is absolutely a big part of how Twitter works today. 1:00:59.680 --> 1:01:00.520 No denying that. 1:01:00.520 --> 1:01:02.360 What I'm saying is that you don't know any more 1:01:02.400 --> 1:01:03.880 than you did before this came out, because you have 1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:05.720 no way of knowing if any of these accounts are 1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:08.200 based where X is saying they're based because of how 1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:09.960 VPNs work. That's what I'm saying. 1:01:10.520 --> 1:01:11.720 Yeah, that's what I've got to say. 1:01:13.920 --> 1:01:17.360 It's incredibly annoying. It's incredibly annoying that we have to 1:01:17.400 --> 1:01:20.800 continue writing about eggs everything. The half of half of 1:01:20.880 --> 1:01:23.800 Blue Sky is people just virtue signaling that are not 1:01:23.920 --> 1:01:26.280 using Twitter, and I'm being mad at Twitter. 1:01:26.640 --> 1:01:29.640 You know, it's the same Honestly, this will get me flat. 1:01:29.640 --> 1:01:32.120 But it's the same thing about like whether people are 1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:36.000 angry about substack or fucking Instagram or Twitter or whatever. Like, 1:01:36.040 --> 1:01:39.920 if you're using social media, you're not doing yourself any favors. 1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:43.680 And they're all pretty supportive of bad things and bad people, 1:01:44.200 --> 1:01:46.720 and we use them anyway because that's the world. Like 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:49.680 we spend dollars anyway, and let me tell you, dollars 1:01:49.720 --> 1:01:52.520 support some bad things. We pay taxes, and boy howdy, 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:54.320 I don't like where a lot of those taxes go. 1:01:56.400 --> 1:01:58.560 Yeah, but don't pretend. 1:01:58.200 --> 1:02:00.680 That because you pick the right social media app that 1:02:00.720 --> 1:02:03.640 you're not fucking your brain up and introducing yourself to 1:02:03.640 --> 1:02:05.240 a bunch of things that aren't true. We all do 1:02:05.360 --> 1:02:07.920 it like that's the problem. 1:02:08.280 --> 1:02:12.960 Yes, they're not good for humans, yea broadly. Uh, do 1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:14.840 you want to talk about something else it's not good 1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:15.560 for humans? 1:02:15.960 --> 1:02:18.880 Yeah, let's not talk about fucking X the every goddamn 1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:19.640 thing app anymore. 1:02:19.760 --> 1:02:23.120 No, Unfortunately, I have I have something rubbic which does 1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:27.880 relate to X great everything app. So let's talk about Axios. 1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:31.320 Oh yeah, are you guys familiar with axios. It's the 1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:33.720 new satelet for people who hate paragraphs. 1:02:33.200 --> 1:02:34.200 People who love cocaine. 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:38.240 Yeah yeah, yeah, for people reading the news while they're 1:02:38.240 --> 1:02:40.960 having a dump. That is what axios is for. They 1:02:40.960 --> 1:02:43.080 shit out news for you to read where you're having a. 1:02:43.040 --> 1:02:45.840 Ship again, which makes cocaine even a bigger part of 1:02:45.880 --> 1:02:46.600 the picture here. 1:02:48.600 --> 1:02:51.080 No, it's it's like it's like the ADHD is like 1:02:51.240 --> 1:02:52.360 ideal news source. 1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:55.440 Yeah yeah, yeah, you do a line, you have to 1:02:55.480 --> 1:02:57.520 go take a ship, you catch up on your news. 1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:03.040 Yeah, it's that's what they call productivity. That's the Robert 1:03:03.040 --> 1:03:06.120 Evans grind set, the morning routine that everyone's been off. 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:09.840 It's really it's really genius of fucking Axios to hit 1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:13.080 that demographic exactly because those people also have a lot 1:03:13.120 --> 1:03:14.560 of money because they're all day traders. 1:03:14.600 --> 1:03:19.160 True true, yeah, yeah, smash, I have I have polymarket 1:03:19.200 --> 1:03:22.920 one to the Califi on the other axios always pulled up. 1:03:25.480 --> 1:03:26.440 That's split screening. 1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:29.360 You have one of those Apple like flat grass glass 1:03:29.400 --> 1:03:32.040 touch screen panels. But it's just for doing coke off 1:03:32.040 --> 1:03:32.600 of you've just. 1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:37.040 Got lines kind off on. Yeah, it's because the metaglass 1:03:37.160 --> 1:03:45.240 is a contact right looping axio screen at Yeah, Axios 1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:47.400 and use that left for people who are taking cocaine. 1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:52.280 Has seemingly been duped into running a Russian wish list 1:03:52.400 --> 1:03:56.640 as a proposed peace plant in Ukraine. Yeah great, This 1:03:56.720 --> 1:03:59.720 is what happens when you do journalism the speed of paranoia. 1:03:59.760 --> 1:04:02.280 But this has come at the same time as Trump 1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:06.120 has proclaimed via truth via the medium of a truth 1:04:06.240 --> 1:04:10.960 on Truth social that Ukraine was not showing fuscient gratitude 1:04:11.120 --> 1:04:13.360 for what we had like eleven month of him failing 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:13.960 to end the war. 1:04:14.200 --> 1:04:15.080 Yeah. 1:04:15.520 --> 1:04:21.440 So this twenty eight point plan was first published by Axios, 1:04:21.960 --> 1:04:24.400 and it was pretty much immediately rejected by a number 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:27.760 of Senators, led by Senator Angus King, who were at 1:04:28.720 --> 1:04:33.760 a security conference in Halifax, Halifax, Canada. Not og Halifax, 1:04:33.760 --> 1:04:38.960 shout out yeah, Halifax Junior. The senators pretty much immediately 1:04:39.000 --> 1:04:41.240 said that the US was not the author of the document. 1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:44.600 Rubio quote made it very clear to us that we 1:04:44.640 --> 1:04:46.960 are recipients of a proposal that was delivered to one 1:04:47.000 --> 1:04:51.160 of our representatives, said Senator Mike Grounds. So what they 1:04:51.200 --> 1:04:53.240 are saying is that the US didn't write to document 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:56.560 and it was delivered to them, one can safely assume 1:04:56.640 --> 1:05:01.840 by Russia, right Rubio using X the everything app then 1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:07.600 attempted to deny this. So what it appears has happened 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:12.640 is that this plan was drafted by Russian Special Envoy Dmitriev. 1:05:12.920 --> 1:05:14.600 Probably was Steve Witkoff. 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:15.640 Sure that sounds right. 1:05:15.760 --> 1:05:18.200 So Wickkoff is Trump's what leads I think he's a 1:05:18.200 --> 1:05:20.120 special envoy to Russia at this point. 1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:23.640 Yeah, I believe he's an onvoid of Russia. Yeah, Warren 1:05:23.720 --> 1:05:25.480 Zevonn wrote a song about guys like him. 1:05:25.840 --> 1:05:29.840 Yes, yeah, he has. He has not covered himself in 1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:31.760 glory in his time doing this. He's kind of a 1:05:31.920 --> 1:05:35.240 useful fool. He's formerly like a real estate guy. 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:39.680 That'll prepare you to deal with Vladimir Putin, having sold 1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:42.080 houses during the subprime mortgage crisis. 1:05:42.160 --> 1:05:45.840 Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty much what he's doing here, right, Like, 1:05:45.920 --> 1:05:49.680 he's consistently been duped and pretty much has become an 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:51.640 advocate for the Russian point of view a lot of 1:05:51.640 --> 1:05:55.880 the times. In this case, it seems that it was 1:05:55.960 --> 1:06:02.320 then strategically leaked to Axios. Right when Barack Ravid, who 1:06:02.360 --> 1:06:06.919 authored the Axios article, posted it on X the Everything website, 1:06:07.200 --> 1:06:11.240 Steve Witcoff responded saying, quote he must have got this 1:06:11.360 --> 1:06:14.520 from k This is very funny because we have Steve 1:06:14.560 --> 1:06:18.680 Wikoff right negotiating a peace process which affects millions of people, 1:06:19.120 --> 1:06:21.560 and he also doesn't know how to use the DM 1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:23.880 button on X the Everything website. 1:06:23.960 --> 1:06:27.240 To be fair, X the Everything, I've just changed their 1:06:27.360 --> 1:06:30.640 dms and the whole the whole user interface for the 1:06:30.720 --> 1:06:32.800 DMS is completely different. Now you have to put in 1:06:32.840 --> 1:06:34.560 like a pass co and they claim to be encrypted, 1:06:34.600 --> 1:06:36.520 and it's much uglier to look at. 1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:42.720 So in defense in defense of Steve, instead you can 1:06:42.800 --> 1:06:46.400 instead leaks. 1:06:45.640 --> 1:06:47.600 Safe for more secure. Option might just be to do 1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:48.560 it all in public, and. 1:06:48.760 --> 1:06:51.560 To do it in public. Yeah, So so Steve of 1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:56.120 course using a code name there K will never know. Yeah, 1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:59.640 because we can possibly tell the careal Dimitria of my 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:02.760 my might be using K as a code name, also 1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:06.040 the first letter of his first name. So it seems 1:07:06.120 --> 1:07:08.720 very likely that either Dimitrie of someone else in Russia 1:07:08.800 --> 1:07:11.920 decided to leak this plan to Barakavid or Dave Lawler, 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:15.360 knowing it would be raised at a press conference of 1:07:15.440 --> 1:07:18.280 belling that Trump, who, according to Wards the Post, seems 1:07:18.280 --> 1:07:21.400 to have very little detailed knowledges and negotiations, would probably 1:07:21.440 --> 1:07:23.640 see this as a quote unquote deal that then he 1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:27.480 could claim for himself. Right, and it worked. I want 1:07:27.480 --> 1:07:31.280 to talk about how Axios's model makes that possible. Right. 1:07:31.600 --> 1:07:34.400 I'm very well aware that Barack Gravid was a member 1:07:34.440 --> 1:07:36.760 of the eighty two hundred unit in Israel. If people 1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:42.240 aren't familiar. That's like a SIGINT Israeli intelligent unit. This 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:45.360 is widely known. I've seen this being discussed in sort 1:07:45.360 --> 1:07:49.520 of relation to this. The thing is, he doesn't need 1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:53.000 to be nefarious for this to happen, And I think 1:07:53.080 --> 1:07:57.320 the most likely option here is that the Axios model 1:07:57.440 --> 1:08:00.960 is to do insider journalism and then rush to be 1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:03.720 the first to post it on social media and then 1:08:03.760 --> 1:08:08.920 get a bazillion clicks for your seventy eight word article. Right, 1:08:08.960 --> 1:08:12.240 that is how That is their entire business model. 1:08:12.680 --> 1:08:14.320 It is the name of their whole game. 1:08:14.440 --> 1:08:17.479 Yeah, that's why they don't use paragraphs. It's news for 1:08:17.479 --> 1:08:19.640 people who are like waiting for their coffee at Starbucks 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:22.680 or whatever the problem is in this case, states are 1:08:22.720 --> 1:08:25.880 or nonstate actors, right, can effectively place a leak and 1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:29.519 they know that Axios will rush it to press, probably 1:08:29.520 --> 1:08:32.960 in minutes if not ours. And with the way that 1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:36.200 the United States executive branches right now, it seems very 1:08:36.240 --> 1:08:38.120 clear that that they can get it in front of Trump, 1:08:38.200 --> 1:08:41.200 then they're going to get a reaction one way or another. 1:08:41.520 --> 1:08:46.519 So it seems that Rubio was effectively cut out. The 1:08:46.920 --> 1:08:49.280 United States Secretary of State was effectively cut out of 1:08:49.320 --> 1:08:52.800 this whole process. And there's a lot of reporting about 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:54.880 like I don't want to do kremlinology for the Trump 1:08:54.960 --> 1:08:59.479 White House particularly, but it shows how these news outlets 1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:01.800 that lets to sort of don't fact check the Russia 1:09:01.840 --> 1:09:04.240 price to do everything for social media can effectively be 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:07.800 used right in a way that the benefits in this 1:09:07.880 --> 1:09:10.760 case Russia, but any number of organizations could do the 1:09:10.800 --> 1:09:11.160 same thing. 1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:16.960 Robert mentioned some kind of like Wartimes warn some kind 1:09:17.000 --> 1:09:20.640 of Wartimes song, and I was wondering, where is the 1:09:20.680 --> 1:09:22.960 country of Zevon? You said, there's like a song about 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:23.840 Warren Zevon. 1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:29.240 Jesus Garrison, Garrison, get out of here about discrimination in 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:32.919 the workplace. Ah, I'm going to do a Woody Guthrie 1:09:33.120 --> 1:09:35.320 thing in my next series. And Gary, it's just going 1:09:35.360 --> 1:09:39.240 to sail straight past Garrison. You listen to Johnny Cash Garrison, 1:09:39.840 --> 1:09:40.120 I liked. 1:09:40.479 --> 1:09:41.360 I like Johnning Cash. 1:09:41.439 --> 1:09:45.080 Okay, James Cash, that's what they call me. 1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:47.439 Here's some ads. 1:09:57.920 --> 1:09:59.280 And we're. 1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:06.320 New Doge News for the first time in who knows 1:10:06.360 --> 1:10:10.200 how long the news being. There's no more Doge. According 1:10:10.240 --> 1:10:14.400 to a report in Reuter's, Doge has dispended eight months 1:10:14.439 --> 1:10:19.240 before its scheduled expiration in July of twenty twenty seven. 1:10:20.640 --> 1:10:22.880 When asked about the status of DOJE earlier this month, 1:10:23.000 --> 1:10:26.880 Office of Personal Management director Scott Poor told Reuters quote 1:10:27.080 --> 1:10:30.960 that doesn't exist, adding that DOGE is no longer a 1:10:31.040 --> 1:10:33.559 quote unquote centralized entity. 1:10:34.400 --> 1:10:34.719 Yeah. 1:10:35.439 --> 1:10:40.080 Boro has also said that the DOGE mandated hiring freeze 1:10:40.120 --> 1:10:45.600 is over and that there's quote no target around reductions unquote, 1:10:46.000 --> 1:10:49.000 meaning that the DOGE era rule of having to fire 1:10:49.040 --> 1:10:50.920 a certain number of people in order to be allowed 1:10:50.920 --> 1:10:54.880 to hire people is no longer in use as well. 1:10:55.320 --> 1:10:58.479 And this isn't really surprising. You have not really heard 1:10:58.520 --> 1:11:00.920 about many DOGE related stuff in a while. 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:03.800 They haven't been doing anything in a while. Musk has 1:11:03.840 --> 1:11:07.120 basically been out of the center loop of things. But 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:09.720 also they did the things that they were needed to do, right. 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:14.519 They like did massacred large portions of government employees. Yeah, 1:11:14.640 --> 1:11:18.320 did permanent damage to the administrative state and cost several 1:11:18.360 --> 1:11:20.799 hundred thousand people around the world their lives through cuts 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:21.920 in USA. 1:11:22.280 --> 1:11:23.719 Yeah Yeah. 1:11:23.760 --> 1:11:27.479 And like two former DOAGE employees, including big Balls, now 1:11:27.520 --> 1:11:31.120 just work on web design for US government websites, and 1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:34.960 other DOG officials have moved to agencies which they administered 1:11:35.000 --> 1:11:38.479 cuts to a former DOGE team member, Zachary Terrell is 1:11:38.479 --> 1:11:40.559 now the chief technology officer at the Department of Health 1:11:40.560 --> 1:11:44.200 and Human Services, and Jeremy Lewin, who assisted these slashing 1:11:44.240 --> 1:11:46.519 of you say it now overseas foreign assistants at the 1:11:46.560 --> 1:11:52.040 State Department. Yeah, so those guys got jobs out of this. 1:11:53.720 --> 1:11:56.400 All of the people who got fired or got natively 1:11:56.400 --> 1:11:59.320 impacted by the government shutdown are probably not going to 1:11:59.360 --> 1:12:01.639 be coming out as will was mister big balls here. 1:12:02.160 --> 1:12:04.160 Well, and there's some evidence that a number of folks 1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:06.760 who worked with DOGE are now feeling left in the 1:12:06.800 --> 1:12:09.960 wind and potentially in danger because there are a lot 1:12:09.960 --> 1:12:12.360 of people who want these folks to be prosecuted for 1:12:12.439 --> 1:12:15.599 what they did. Yeah, there's definitely talk about that. If 1:12:15.640 --> 1:12:19.280 there's another Democratic administration, we'll see if they would ever 1:12:19.320 --> 1:12:21.880 have the big balls to do it. But there was 1:12:21.920 --> 1:12:24.080 an article in Politico recently, and I'm going to read 1:12:24.120 --> 1:12:26.680 a quote from that Musk had not just been their 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:29.000 visionary leader for them, he was their protector, the man 1:12:29.000 --> 1:12:30.800 who had an elect direct line to Trump, who they 1:12:30.800 --> 1:12:32.839 believed could pick up the phone and secure a presidential 1:12:32.840 --> 1:12:35.559 pardon if the worst came without his presence in Washington, 1:12:35.600 --> 1:12:38.799 they were suddenly exposed. A senior Doze figure named Donald 1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:41.040 Park tried to reassure his colleagues that they were still 1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:43.720 brothers in arms and that Musk would continue to protect them. 1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:47.280 That led to another protesting and advising guys, seriously, get 1:12:47.280 --> 1:12:49.160 your own lawyer. If you needed he lunch, great, but 1:12:49.200 --> 1:12:52.120 you need to watch your own back. Watch your backs, guys. 1:12:52.680 --> 1:12:56.200 Yeah, these guys would be some of the more like 1:12:56.479 --> 1:13:01.360 presumably very easy to prosecute and like obvious, Yes, another 1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:04.640 democratic administration's. 1:13:03.360 --> 1:13:07.400 Some really obvious crimes in terms of like protection of information, 1:13:07.880 --> 1:13:11.519 you know, like some some pretty obvious rule breaking that 1:13:11.600 --> 1:13:13.960 went on that's not being prosecuted now, but yeah, they're right, 1:13:14.000 --> 1:13:15.400 it could be prosecuted in the future. 1:13:15.520 --> 1:13:18.559 Those like first three four months of the Trump admin 1:13:19.080 --> 1:13:21.240 What it really was just full steam ahead on the 1:13:21.240 --> 1:13:24.000 Silicon Valley version of things, right, like the move fast 1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:26.400 and brave things. Yeah, that's such a wild time to 1:13:26.439 --> 1:13:28.200 look back on, not only just in terms of how 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.519 much damage they did, but the idea that if they 1:13:30.520 --> 1:13:32.639 were going to continue at that pace for the rest 1:13:32.680 --> 1:13:35.400 of the term, the government already is fundamentally different in 1:13:35.439 --> 1:13:39.439 some ways, but like how much worse that would have been? Yeah, 1:13:39.640 --> 1:13:42.720 and if Musk's ego is in part, what's sabotaged that 1:13:42.800 --> 1:13:45.760 from being complete and really kind of doing that more 1:13:45.840 --> 1:13:51.760 like Jarvin inspired project Hubris Uh kills kills a man 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:54.679 once again. But there is aspects of like the doge 1:13:54.680 --> 1:13:57.840 idea and this government efficiency thing which aren't fully going 1:13:57.840 --> 1:14:00.519 away like this, this still is and aspect of the 1:14:00.520 --> 1:14:03.080 Trump administration there still is like some of those guys 1:14:03.080 --> 1:14:06.960 at the Auspice of Budget Management and the Heritage twenty 1:14:07.000 --> 1:14:09.479 twenty five guys who have a lot of this government 1:14:09.479 --> 1:14:13.320 efficiency quote unquote government efficiency type stuff that they're still 1:14:13.320 --> 1:14:17.320 working on, including at the Education Department, which last week 1:14:17.479 --> 1:14:21.519 the Trump administration took another step towards closing the Department 1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:24.320 of Education by shifting some of its duties to other 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:29.799 federal agencies, which the admin claims will quote streamline federal 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:34.320 education activities on the legally required programs, and reduce administrative 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:39.439 burden unquote. That is going to be done by these 1:14:39.479 --> 1:14:43.360 six new interagency agreements which have been signed with the 1:14:43.520 --> 1:14:47.479 Departments of Labor, Interior, Health and Human Services, and State. 1:14:48.680 --> 1:14:51.120 The Education Department riting in an announcement that this will 1:14:51.200 --> 1:14:56.040 quote break up the federal bureaucracy, ensure efficient delivery of 1:14:56.120 --> 1:14:59.679 funded programs, activities, and move closer to fulfilling the President's 1:14:59.680 --> 1:15:04.679 promise to return education to the States. So by splitting 1:15:04.760 --> 1:15:08.240 up Education Department duties among four different agencies in three 1:15:08.360 --> 1:15:12.840 different interagency agreements, this is supposed to cut red tape 1:15:12.880 --> 1:15:14.720 and lighten central bureaucracy. 1:15:15.200 --> 1:15:19.719 You have seven entities now what one entity did before. 1:15:20.200 --> 1:15:23.000 The elementary, high school, and post secondary programs will now 1:15:23.040 --> 1:15:25.439 be administered by the Department of Labor. 1:15:25.880 --> 1:15:26.479 That's great. 1:15:26.600 --> 1:15:31.280 We'll nowveresee over thirty billion dollars in education grants aimed 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:34.920 at trying to boost the number of Americans in the workforce. 1:15:35.760 --> 1:15:37.840 The Department of the Interior will be taking over the 1:15:37.920 --> 1:15:41.439 education departments to Indian education programs and integrating them into 1:15:41.439 --> 1:15:44.400 existing programs administered by the Department of the Interior, with 1:15:44.520 --> 1:15:50.760 quote unquote proper oversight by the Education Department. College childcare programs, 1:15:50.800 --> 1:15:53.599 and foreign medical school accreditation will be administered and overseen 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:57.080 by the Health and Human Services, and the State Department 1:15:57.160 --> 1:16:03.080 will now oversee all foreign education programs, handle international education grants, 1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:07.680 and fully administer the full Bright program. Justification for this 1:16:07.800 --> 1:16:12.400 State Department takeover of these funds specifically cited five instances 1:16:12.600 --> 1:16:15.840 of grants that were used to fund academic and medical 1:16:15.880 --> 1:16:19.560 research on trans people, writing that these programs have deviated 1:16:19.640 --> 1:16:23.679 from the core mission. Quote. The announcement from the Education 1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:27.400 departments reads that the State Department is quote best positioned 1:16:27.439 --> 1:16:30.680 to tailor foreign education programs with the national security and 1:16:30.840 --> 1:16:34.799 foreign policy priorities of the United States. This partnership provides 1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:39.000 an opportunity to streamline international education program funding and data 1:16:39.040 --> 1:16:45.080 collection measures, consolidate program management, and advance national security interests. 1:16:46.560 --> 1:16:47.240 That's not good. 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:49.439 Yeah, that doesn't seem great. 1:16:49.560 --> 1:16:52.920 Huh Yeah, this last part is particularly concerning that the 1:16:53.040 --> 1:16:56.639 US previously has done a lot of funding of education 1:16:56.840 --> 1:17:01.040 programs around the world, and to see that pretty much, 1:17:01.080 --> 1:17:03.920 I like, with this current vasion of the State Department, 1:17:03.960 --> 1:17:07.320 I to disappear or become even more straight up propaganda. 1:17:07.479 --> 1:17:11.519 Like it's really worrying. This kind of builds on that 1:17:11.640 --> 1:17:13.880 dose stuff that you were talking about, Like this is 1:17:14.680 --> 1:17:17.200 the end of the State Department doing anything other than 1:17:17.240 --> 1:17:21.000 the propaganda And I guess warmaking well. 1:17:20.880 --> 1:17:24.519 And specifically, like Rubio's focus on education has been to 1:17:25.120 --> 1:17:30.080 crack down on academics, Palaestatian academics, academics who have who 1:17:30.160 --> 1:17:35.559 have protested in support of Palestine. That's specifically what Rubio 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:39.800 has has talked about in terms of, you know, universities. Yeah, 1:17:39.920 --> 1:17:42.920 so with all the stuff in that statement about you know, 1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:47.599 national security and foreign policy priorities, it's not hard to 1:17:47.600 --> 1:17:52.280 see what they could be gesturing towards. Yeah, as the 1:17:52.320 --> 1:17:56.280 announcements are currently written, a lot of the programs itself, 1:17:56.320 --> 1:17:59.280 at least in the trench transitionary period, remain kind of 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:02.760 the same. They're shifting who is like quote unquote administering them, 1:18:02.760 --> 1:18:05.680 that's the word they use a lot. But they're not 1:18:06.080 --> 1:18:08.960 cutting funds to these programs at the moment, and they 1:18:08.960 --> 1:18:12.600 do talk about them as like legally required programs. But 1:18:12.760 --> 1:18:16.240 I mean, Carolyn Levitt and Linda McMahon have said this 1:18:16.000 --> 1:18:20.280 is just one step towards well fully sending education back 1:18:20.320 --> 1:18:21.320 to the states. 1:18:21.640 --> 1:18:22.680 Woh. 1:18:22.840 --> 1:18:28.639 This also was sort like in massive disparities in educational 1:18:28.720 --> 1:18:32.200 outcomes state by state in the United States, right, Like, 1:18:32.240 --> 1:18:34.880 we already have that to some extent, but that's only 1:18:34.920 --> 1:18:38.160 going to be exacerbated by this, right, talking about things 1:18:38.200 --> 1:18:44.040 happening between the States. Let's talk about Gregory Buffino, person 1:18:44.080 --> 1:18:47.559 who supposedly patrols the borders of the United States, but 1:18:47.640 --> 1:18:51.360 has more recently been doing internal enforcement for the Border Patrol. 1:18:51.680 --> 1:18:53.720 He gave an interview to AP recently that I was 1:18:53.760 --> 1:18:57.000 just reading. They did confirm, interestingly that like a few 1:18:57.080 --> 1:18:59.559 weeks ago, maybe months ago, we've been talking about Baveno 1:18:59.640 --> 1:19:02.800 and like to work out if he was still chief 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:05.000 patrol agent in El Centro. It appears that he is, 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:08.040 but he's also a commander of this operation at large, 1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:11.280 which is their sort of the thing that has moved 1:19:11.280 --> 1:19:14.760 from Los Angeles to Chicago, which is now in Charlotte. Right, 1:19:15.240 --> 1:19:18.719 this sort of internal enforcement operation. He calls his team 1:19:18.920 --> 1:19:23.320 now quote unquote sanctuary busters, and he said that quote 1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:26.760 there will be no more sanctuaries, which kind of does 1:19:27.360 --> 1:19:29.439 build on what I spoke about in our last ed 1:19:29.640 --> 1:19:32.320 right when we spoke about the idea that the reason 1:19:32.320 --> 1:19:34.519 they had targeted Charlotte was because it appeared on that 1:19:34.600 --> 1:19:39.120 CIS map quote unquote sanctuary city or sanctuary jurisdiction, despite 1:19:39.479 --> 1:19:43.000 the passage of legislation in the state which would have 1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:46.360 prevented it doing the things that sanctuaries do. I don't 1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:50.120 want to talk about this ABC investigation into CBP's use 1:19:50.160 --> 1:19:53.120 of licensed plate readers. CBPS has had these for like 1:19:53.200 --> 1:19:57.040 eight or nine years now. I found the twenty seventeen 1:19:57.560 --> 1:20:00.639 piece where they wrote out their justification for use them. Right, 1:20:01.280 --> 1:20:05.120 their use has grown immensely right in it. Yeah, and 1:20:05.160 --> 1:20:09.080 it has grown under both administrations we've I suppose Trump 1:20:09.120 --> 1:20:12.280 administration from twenty to twenty twenty, by the administration twenty twenty, 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:16.720 twenty eighty four. We spoke actually in an episode that 1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:18.360 I think it was just Robert and I in that 1:20:18.360 --> 1:20:21.080 episode when we spoke about Gavin Newsom. People love that 1:20:21.160 --> 1:20:25.080 episode and they send me great feedback, because, guys, it's 1:20:25.080 --> 1:20:27.320 important that we all know that the only person standing 1:20:27.360 --> 1:20:30.840 up against Trump right now is Gavin Newsom. Everything else 1:20:30.880 --> 1:20:33.880 is pointless. But in that episode, we spoke about how 1:20:34.200 --> 1:20:40.480 many California jurisdictions share license plate reader information with federal 1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:44.519 immigration authorities, even when California law prohibits them from doing so. Right. 1:20:44.600 --> 1:20:46.920 This is kind of one of those these things they grow. 1:20:46.960 --> 1:20:47.839 It's a ratchet. 1:20:47.960 --> 1:20:48.080 Right. 1:20:48.160 --> 1:20:51.959 Once you give that power to the state, it belongs 1:20:52.000 --> 1:20:53.920 to all of the state, and you can never take 1:20:53.960 --> 1:20:57.000 it back. Automated license to plate readers have been a 1:20:57.040 --> 1:21:00.519 big thing in this kind of the post only twenty 1:21:00.560 --> 1:21:05.439 tendency of democratic mayors in big cities to massively increase 1:21:05.479 --> 1:21:09.200 spending on the police and massively increase police surveillance. We 1:21:10.000 --> 1:21:13.400 have automated cameras on our lampposts here in San Diego 1:21:13.439 --> 1:21:18.920 now right. California has prosecuted one jurisdiction that I'm aware of, 1:21:18.960 --> 1:21:23.040 which is Alcoholone. People will be familiar with alcoholne from Alcoholone. 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:26.479 Mayor Bill Well's attempt to make a country music song 1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:33.000 about how schools are turning kids trans that is un 1:21:33.000 --> 1:21:37.800 ironically probably the most national use it that ALCOHOLA has 1:21:37.840 --> 1:21:43.280 made for a while. But bundahursued Alcoholone for showing that data. 1:21:43.400 --> 1:21:46.280 My guess is that that is because it's alcoholone, right, 1:21:46.360 --> 1:21:48.600 Because Alcohol is a city where the mayor makes a 1:21:48.600 --> 1:21:51.519 country music song about how schools are turning children trans like, 1:21:51.680 --> 1:21:54.760 it's very obviously like a partisan prosecution. There are many 1:21:54.800 --> 1:21:59.240 other jurisdictions doing this. What Border Patrol does with these 1:21:59.280 --> 1:22:04.000 cameras is it targets quote unquote suspicious activities and then 1:22:04.040 --> 1:22:06.920 it requests stops. Sometimes the stops are not made by 1:22:06.920 --> 1:22:09.320 Border Patrol, but are made by local police. Right on 1:22:09.400 --> 1:22:12.439 the pretext of something like speeding or failing to signal 1:22:12.479 --> 1:22:16.559 before you change lanes, having a break light out could 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:21.360 be many, many things, right. The ABC piece quoted Deputy 1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:24.560 Joel bab of saying, quote, the beautiful thing about the 1:22:24.600 --> 1:22:27.120 Texas traffic code is there thousands of things you can 1:22:27.240 --> 1:22:31.320 stop a vehicle for. The idea here is not to 1:22:31.479 --> 1:22:34.680 explicitly talk about the license plate readers, right, And the 1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:38.960 fact that they are using these to do predictive surveillance 1:22:39.000 --> 1:22:39.600 is what they call it. 1:22:39.680 --> 1:22:39.760 Right. 1:22:40.320 --> 1:22:44.599 They're trying to highlight like suspicious patterns of vehicle motion 1:22:44.720 --> 1:22:49.800 and stop people. The piece has some they obtained through 1:22:49.840 --> 1:22:52.760 public records requests from a court case, a WhatsApp group 1:22:52.840 --> 1:22:55.559 chat between Border Patrol and Texas officers which the officer 1:22:55.600 --> 1:22:58.479 has shared movement, social media profiles, car rentals, and home 1:22:58.520 --> 1:23:02.960 addresses of people who they were interested in surveilling. Right, 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:08.160 And it reveals a massive level of surveillance. If you know, 1:23:08.160 --> 1:23:10.360 if you if you're thinking of border patrol and you're 1:23:10.479 --> 1:23:12.720 still under the impression that in America the border can't 1:23:12.720 --> 1:23:14.920 come to you wherever you are, this is another example 1:23:14.920 --> 1:23:17.800 of why that's not true. Right, DHS uses these all 1:23:17.840 --> 1:23:20.559 over the country to include outside of one hundred mile 1:23:20.680 --> 1:23:25.160 border enforcement zone. Right. This piece seems to believe that 1:23:25.200 --> 1:23:27.760 the board one hundred miles zone is it's like a 1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:31.240 legal hard line. It's not. It's an interpretation of a 1:23:31.320 --> 1:23:35.639 quote unquote reasonable distance. There is no hard line stopping 1:23:35.760 --> 1:23:38.040 BP for operating further from the border than that. That 1:23:38.160 --> 1:23:41.840 is just generally where the interpretation of a reasonable distance 1:23:41.880 --> 1:23:45.760 from the border is perceived to fall. Border patrol has 1:23:45.800 --> 1:23:48.560 these cameras at fixed points, so like that would be 1:23:48.600 --> 1:23:50.960 border patrol crossings, you know when you enter or enter 1:23:51.040 --> 1:23:52.600 the enter or leave the country at a port of 1:23:52.720 --> 1:23:56.559 entry and then at checkpoints. Right, people will be familiar 1:23:56.560 --> 1:23:58.680 with checkpoints that live in a border area. And then 1:23:58.720 --> 1:24:02.080 they also have these in mo bile and cover capacities, right, 1:24:02.080 --> 1:24:03.960 And they're using them to find people who might be 1:24:04.040 --> 1:24:07.080 driving near the border or staying and then leaving at 1:24:07.080 --> 1:24:09.600 a strange time, and then they're building a profile of 1:24:09.640 --> 1:24:13.719 those people's movements and using that request stops. Right. It's 1:24:13.760 --> 1:24:16.200 a level of surveillance that I think should be worrying 1:24:16.560 --> 1:24:17.360 to many people. 1:24:17.600 --> 1:24:21.759 And they have access to these like larger integrated camera networks, 1:24:21.800 --> 1:24:24.799 like by Flock Safety, which I've talked about before, including 1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:28.240 I think yesterday's episode. As Flock is like an Atlanta 1:24:28.280 --> 1:24:32.080 based company that rose to prominence through their surveillance around 1:24:32.160 --> 1:24:35.599 the forest where cops that was being constructed. Now Flock 1:24:35.720 --> 1:24:38.919 is all over the country, and Border Patrol has access 1:24:38.960 --> 1:24:41.519 to the Flock system. Yeah, and it's used for a 1:24:41.520 --> 1:24:44.839 whole bunch of other really dubious stuff, including in Texas. 1:24:44.960 --> 1:24:47.720 I think four h four Media did a report not 1:24:47.840 --> 1:24:51.599 too long ago about Texas sheriffs tracking a pregnant woman 1:24:51.840 --> 1:24:54.720 getting an abortion, not in Texas. 1:24:54.400 --> 1:24:57.400 Right, Yeah, yeah, I can see. Yeah, Texas law makes 1:24:57.439 --> 1:24:59.240 it a crime to leave the state in order to 1:24:59.280 --> 1:25:02.519 get should or something, right, and so that would be 1:25:02.520 --> 1:25:06.240 their I guess their excuse here. But like I think 1:25:06.240 --> 1:25:09.240 we can all see that that's a pretty pretty disgusting 1:25:09.320 --> 1:25:12.120 use of the svealan state. But yeah, these things grew 1:25:12.200 --> 1:25:14.840 massively in the time period between twenty twenty and today, 1:25:15.760 --> 1:25:18.760 and it was not just in Republican jurisdictions. Right, There's 1:25:18.800 --> 1:25:22.160 this like unabated support for state surveillance that we saw 1:25:23.760 --> 1:25:27.160 all over the United States is now being turned against 1:25:28.360 --> 1:25:31.599 migrants and anybody who is suspected of helping them, which 1:25:31.640 --> 1:25:35.519 is not great. Talking of not great, we have an 1:25:35.560 --> 1:25:39.559 obligation to pivot to add I'm happy. I think that's great. 1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:43.600 I love I love having a job. I enjoyed to 1:25:43.600 --> 1:25:45.320 consume products and services. 1:25:45.120 --> 1:26:00.599 That's right, and we're back. How's everybody doing good? 1:26:01.000 --> 1:26:03.799 Yeah? Banging, pretty good, pretty good. I just just finished 1:26:03.800 --> 1:26:09.360 my Asahi smoothie from the Heritage Social twenty twenty four cup, 1:26:09.520 --> 1:26:10.519 So I feel great. 1:26:10.680 --> 1:26:12.800 That's great. Yeah, that's good for you. 1:26:12.840 --> 1:26:16.040 Garrison really coming together, you know, politics from different sides 1:26:16.080 --> 1:26:19.719 coming together to enjoy a smoothie. Not unlike the meeting 1:26:19.800 --> 1:26:21.840 between Zora mum Donnie and Donald Trump. 1:26:21.880 --> 1:26:24.440 Oh my god, Oh. 1:26:23.600 --> 1:26:25.320 How long did you plan that for? 1:26:25.520 --> 1:26:25.880 Garrison? 1:26:26.000 --> 1:26:28.479 Like literally five seconds? It just it just came out. 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:31.200 We don't do smooth transitions here like that. 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:34.599 Well, you know sometimes do you know who was smooth? 1:26:34.720 --> 1:26:35.559 It was Zora moum. 1:26:35.479 --> 1:26:39.439 Donnie during that meeting, which like a duck's back, like 1:26:39.479 --> 1:26:41.880 a like a seal, that kind of smoothness. 1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:47.320 Trump seemed pretty pretty enamored. Mister mum donnie mayor elect 1:26:47.360 --> 1:26:50.320 mam donnie. Quote, we have one thing in common. We 1:26:50.360 --> 1:26:53.800 want this city of ours to do very well unquote. 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:57.800 So this was on Friday, Trump and Mum Donnie had 1:26:57.840 --> 1:27:02.280 a private meeting in the White House. Afterwards a thirty 1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:05.000 minute press conference in the Oval Office where Trump was 1:27:05.000 --> 1:27:07.519 sitting down, And so I was kind of looming over 1:27:07.600 --> 1:27:11.720 the side of Trump the whole time, never fully smiling, 1:27:11.840 --> 1:27:14.960 always having a little bit of like a a tiny 1:27:15.080 --> 1:27:19.479 like both sided smirk, but not doing his traditional happy smile. 1:27:19.560 --> 1:27:22.559 He had a very different look in the White House. 1:27:23.120 --> 1:27:25.200 But as soon as the press conference started, it was 1:27:25.240 --> 1:27:29.559 clear that the meeting went very well for Momdannie. Trump 1:27:29.720 --> 1:27:32.080 was exuberant about the man. 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:35.960 Yeah, he seemed really excited. Yeah, it's a little weird, 1:27:36.000 --> 1:27:37.080 but he seemed really excited. 1:27:37.120 --> 1:27:40.360 He stated that they have common ground on getting housing built, 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:43.599 on affordability, on food and prices coming down, saying, quote, 1:27:43.640 --> 1:27:45.600 there's no difference in party, and we're going to be 1:27:45.720 --> 1:27:49.800 helping him to make everybody's dream come true unquote. 1:27:49.920 --> 1:27:53.560 Everybody's streamftory amazing. 1:27:54.360 --> 1:27:55.160 Yeah. 1:27:55.320 --> 1:27:57.920 First, I want to play Zoran's initial statement as the 1:27:57.960 --> 1:28:01.439 press conference started on what they spoke about during this meeting. 1:28:02.080 --> 1:28:05.200 I appreciated the meeting with the President, and as he said, 1:28:05.200 --> 1:28:07.880 It was a productive meeting focused on a place of 1:28:08.280 --> 1:28:10.920 shared admiration and love, which is New York City, and 1:28:10.960 --> 1:28:14.160 the need to deliver affordability to New Yorkers, the eight 1:28:14.200 --> 1:28:16.840 and a half million people who call our city their home, 1:28:16.840 --> 1:28:19.679 who are struggling to afford life in the most expensive 1:28:19.680 --> 1:28:22.000 city in the United States of America. We spoke about 1:28:22.560 --> 1:28:25.080 we spoke about groceries, we spoke about utilities, we spoke 1:28:25.120 --> 1:28:27.479 about the different ways in which people are being pushed out. 1:28:27.520 --> 1:28:29.879 And I appreciated the time with the President. I appreciated 1:28:29.880 --> 1:28:33.000 the conversation. I look forward to working together to deliver 1:28:33.160 --> 1:28:34.439 that affordability for the owners. 1:28:35.160 --> 1:28:38.000 It's one of the posture people with the green line. 1:28:38.120 --> 1:28:38.679 The green line. 1:28:38.760 --> 1:28:40.920 Yeah no, I've seen, yeah, that's going on a couple 1:28:40.920 --> 1:28:41.280 of times. 1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:43.720 They've already they've had that way with it, They've been 1:28:43.760 --> 1:28:46.320 on it. Yeah, yeah, Okay, it does seem tense. 1:28:46.640 --> 1:28:49.120 The vibes in that room must have been very, very weird. 1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:53.960 N Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, no, Zorn's very tense. Trump's 1:28:54.000 --> 1:28:55.960 trying to relax, like bad late. 1:28:56.680 --> 1:28:59.720 Face that you've posted on gas he is, I can 1:28:59.800 --> 1:29:03.320 only it's like a shit eating grin on Trump's face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:29:03.360 --> 1:29:08.240 like he does seem genuinely happy, thrilled. Yeah, it's weird. 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:10.400 He likes to be associated with winners. 1:29:10.720 --> 1:29:12.639 This is one of the big things, right A lot 1:29:12.640 --> 1:29:15.200 of I mean, we'll talk about this more. That takes 1:29:15.479 --> 1:29:17.559 okay at this, but but yeah, I think it's very 1:29:17.560 --> 1:29:20.880 clear why Trump's actually having a good time here. Zoron's 1:29:20.920 --> 1:29:23.599 like the most popular politician in the country right now, 1:29:23.960 --> 1:29:28.280 and Trump likes winners. And if anything, Zoron has proven 1:29:28.320 --> 1:29:31.799 to be an underdog that has an enormous capacity for winning, 1:29:32.280 --> 1:29:34.519 and I think Trump does like that, and that, coupled 1:29:34.560 --> 1:29:36.800 with a genuine love for New York, I think Zoron 1:29:36.880 --> 1:29:40.360 was able to navigate around Trump pretty successfully. When asked 1:29:40.360 --> 1:29:43.599 about Zoron being a communist, Trump said, quote, I feel 1:29:43.680 --> 1:29:45.680 very confident he can do a good job. I think 1:29:45.720 --> 1:29:49.200 it's going to surprise some conservative people actually unquote. 1:29:49.000 --> 1:29:51.840 And you should add what he said about liberal people, 1:29:51.840 --> 1:29:53.920 because I thought that was his funniest line. 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:56.559 Oh then also liberal people, but they already like him 1:29:56.920 --> 1:29:57.559 too or something. 1:29:57.680 --> 1:30:00.040 Yeah, I don't think they'll be surprised, they'll just be half. 1:30:00.120 --> 1:30:02.760 Yes, they like him because they already like him. 1:30:03.560 --> 1:30:05.599 It was very funny it was very funny. 1:30:05.960 --> 1:30:09.880 Trump also talked about how a lot of Trump voters 1:30:09.920 --> 1:30:13.679 actually voted for Zorn as well, saying quote unquote, I'm 1:30:13.720 --> 1:30:17.439 okay with that, and so I mentioned that yes, one 1:30:17.520 --> 1:30:20.599 in ten Trump voters in New York voted for Zoron 1:30:21.120 --> 1:30:24.040 and Zorn mentioned the end to forever wars and the 1:30:24.040 --> 1:30:27.639 cost living crisis as the driving motivators that voters spoke 1:30:27.640 --> 1:30:31.760 about as he was campaigning. Throughout this press conference, and 1:30:31.800 --> 1:30:34.160 we can assume some degree of the meeting, Zoran was 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:37.960 very laser focused on New York specifically, and you've even 1:30:38.040 --> 1:30:40.439 seen this in interviews that he's given to like NBC 1:30:40.640 --> 1:30:43.000 and other outlets the past few days, where people are 1:30:43.040 --> 1:30:45.400 asking him about, you know, the Democratic Party as a 1:30:45.400 --> 1:30:48.120 whole and national level, and Zorn repeatedly just goes back 1:30:48.160 --> 1:30:50.080 to affordability in New York. This is like the one 1:30:50.120 --> 1:30:51.800 thing that he's going to keep talking about. He doesn't 1:30:51.800 --> 1:30:54.599 want to talk about any anything else really, And this 1:30:54.760 --> 1:30:57.000 was evident throughout this meeting the way that Zorn would 1:30:57.040 --> 1:31:01.439 would reiterate every question to being about New York. But 1:31:01.520 --> 1:31:04.760 they didn't shy away from talking about the things they 1:31:05.080 --> 1:31:08.439 disagreed on on, like an ideological sense, ICE being one 1:31:08.439 --> 1:31:11.240 of them. Here's one of their exchanges about ICE. 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:14.960 Resident you've threatened to send federal troops to New York City. 1:31:15.240 --> 1:31:18.080 You both have differences when it comes to ICE agents 1:31:18.360 --> 1:31:21.200 in New York City. On mister Mundonnie, you called ICE 1:31:21.360 --> 1:31:24.880 a rogue government entity. I wonder how you reconcile your 1:31:24.920 --> 1:31:26.840 differences on both of those issues. 1:31:26.960 --> 1:31:27.559 I think we're going to. 1:31:27.600 --> 1:31:30.559 Work them out. And I think that if we have 1:31:31.520 --> 1:31:35.439 known murderers and known drug dealers and some very bad people, 1:31:36.040 --> 1:31:37.680 you know, we want to get them out. And the 1:31:37.720 --> 1:31:41.200 mayor ones have we discussed as a great length actually 1:31:41.200 --> 1:31:43.880 maybe more than anything else. He wants to have a 1:31:43.920 --> 1:31:46.720 safe New York. Ultimately, a safe New York is going 1:31:46.800 --> 1:31:48.439 to be a great New York. If it's not safe, 1:31:48.479 --> 1:31:50.680 no matter how well we do with pricing and with 1:31:51.800 --> 1:31:54.280 anything else, we can talk about anything you want, if 1:31:54.320 --> 1:31:56.800 you don't have safe streets, it's not going to be 1:31:56.840 --> 1:31:59.080 a success. So we're going to work together. We're going 1:31:59.120 --> 1:32:01.760 to make sure that if they they're horrible people there, 1:32:01.800 --> 1:32:03.160 we want to get him out. I think he wants 1:32:03.160 --> 1:32:05.320 to get him out, maybe more than I do, So 1:32:05.640 --> 1:32:06.320 we'll work together. 1:32:07.000 --> 1:32:10.040 They talked about I is at one later point in 1:32:10.080 --> 1:32:12.320 the meeting where you get kind of a peek at 1:32:12.360 --> 1:32:15.400 what some of this conversation may have been like behind 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:20.800 the scenes, about trying to target any ICE enforcement against 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:25.160 people who have criminal records rather than these roving raids 1:32:25.200 --> 1:32:28.280 that round up but just swaths of undocumented people like 1:32:28.320 --> 1:32:32.040 the Canall Street raid a few weeks ago. It's still 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:35.840 not super clear what they are talking about, but there's 1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:40.560 not compromise in this point, like Trump's obviously going to 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:42.439 try to frame this in a way that strengthens Trump's 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:44.360 own positions on this, and I think Zoron will do 1:32:44.400 --> 1:32:46.719 the same. Before we discuss I don't want to play 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:50.080 this the second bit of their discussion because you get 1:32:50.120 --> 1:32:52.320 more of Zoron's angle. 1:32:54.240 --> 1:32:57.439 We discussed ICE and New York City, and I spoke 1:32:57.479 --> 1:32:58.920 about how the laws that we have in New York 1:32:59.000 --> 1:33:02.000 City allow for New York City government to speak to 1:33:02.040 --> 1:33:05.040 the federal administration for about one hundred and seventy serious crimes. 1:33:05.320 --> 1:33:07.720 The concerns that many New Yorkers have are around the 1:33:07.800 --> 1:33:12.559 enforcement of immigration laws on New Yorkers across the Five Boroughs, 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:14.800 and most recently we're talking about a mother and her 1:33:14.840 --> 1:33:17.479 two children. How this has very little to do with 1:33:17.520 --> 1:33:19.800 what that is. 1:33:19.880 --> 1:33:24.000 We discuss crime more than ice per se. We discuss crime, 1:33:24.080 --> 1:33:26.240 and he doesn't want to see crime, and I don't 1:33:26.240 --> 1:33:29.800 want to see crime, and I have very little doubt 1:33:29.840 --> 1:33:31.639 that we're not going to get along on that issue. 1:33:31.720 --> 1:33:34.040 He wants to and he said some things that were 1:33:34.120 --> 1:33:38.040 very interesting, very interesting as to housing construction, and he 1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:40.320 wants to see houses go up. He wants to see 1:33:40.320 --> 1:33:43.400 a lot of houses created, a lot of apartments built, etc. 1:33:43.720 --> 1:33:48.439 And you know, we actually people would be shocked, but 1:33:48.560 --> 1:33:49.760 I want to see the same thing. 1:33:50.280 --> 1:33:50.600 See that. 1:33:50.720 --> 1:33:52.040 Yeah, that worries me a little bit. 1:33:52.280 --> 1:33:53.240 What about that worries you? 1:33:53.720 --> 1:33:55.640 I can tell what Trump's trying to do, which is 1:33:55.680 --> 1:33:59.040 that he really would like to get Mom Donnie on 1:33:59.080 --> 1:34:01.920 his side. And interestingly for Trump, I think he is 1:34:01.960 --> 1:34:05.320 willing to move on some things if he can fundamentally 1:34:05.360 --> 1:34:09.840 get Mom Donnie to agree that ice has a use. Yeah, right, 1:34:09.960 --> 1:34:11.720 Like that's what he's clearly trying to do, and he's 1:34:11.800 --> 1:34:15.280 clearly trying to portray it as we've already agreed on that. 1:34:15.439 --> 1:34:19.360 And I think that within the context of this meeting, 1:34:19.680 --> 1:34:21.960 because of how the questions were being asked. I don't 1:34:21.960 --> 1:34:24.960 think Zorn got enough of a chance to fully address 1:34:25.040 --> 1:34:28.800 that question. So I'll leave it open to see how 1:34:28.840 --> 1:34:31.879 that is, like how he deals with that in the future. 1:34:32.280 --> 1:34:34.200 But I don't think he got enough of an opportunity 1:34:34.200 --> 1:34:36.160 to push back enough on some of the things Trump 1:34:36.200 --> 1:34:38.880 was claiming here. That does concern me a little bit, 1:34:38.920 --> 1:34:42.120 Like I think it's more a factor of how an 1:34:42.120 --> 1:34:46.439 oval office press conference is structured. But I do think 1:34:46.439 --> 1:34:48.880 that it's like I can see what Trump's trying to 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:49.439 do well. 1:34:49.479 --> 1:34:52.240 I think what mom Donnie is trying to navigate for 1:34:52.400 --> 1:34:56.240 is if he can put an end to roving ice 1:34:56.320 --> 1:35:00.320 rates that just like that just round up people at 1:35:00.360 --> 1:35:02.800 whether they're at restaurants or from depots, and if there's 1:35:03.080 --> 1:35:06.600 people who are who have been incarcerated, who are incarcerated, 1:35:07.400 --> 1:35:12.559 and if removal operations are specifically against except like what 1:35:12.560 --> 1:35:16.160 one hundred and seventy like serious crimes, and if that 1:35:16.320 --> 1:35:19.200 is a sort of compromise, I guess I don't know. 1:35:19.720 --> 1:35:21.880 He's not an office. Yes, it's it's unclear the way 1:35:21.920 --> 1:35:24.960 that this would this would be enacted. Yeah, but if 1:35:24.960 --> 1:35:28.800 it's an harm reduction measure of stopping ice raids from 1:35:28.880 --> 1:35:32.439 happening or limiting the amount that ICE is able to 1:35:32.520 --> 1:35:36.599 operate as as basically a rodenty within the city. And 1:35:36.640 --> 1:35:39.679 I don't think we know enough to like actually see 1:35:39.840 --> 1:35:42.439 what that will look like yet, because he's not taking 1:35:42.439 --> 1:35:44.560 office for another what like forty five days. 1:35:44.880 --> 1:35:48.920 Yeah, yeah, what he's talking about. When Trump goes about crime, 1:35:49.320 --> 1:35:52.160 crime is what they have always talked about, right, right, 1:35:52.200 --> 1:35:55.840 when they talk about the ICE enforcement, the crimes that 1:35:55.920 --> 1:35:59.519 they are speaking about, very right, they will always give 1:35:59.600 --> 1:36:01.680 the exact ample of the person who's been convicted of 1:36:01.840 --> 1:36:05.240 child abuse, of murder, of domestic violence. Right, But then 1:36:05.280 --> 1:36:08.120 they will also go ahead and say the crossing between 1:36:08.160 --> 1:36:11.240 ports of entry can be prosecuted as a crime, and 1:36:11.280 --> 1:36:14.280 then they will use that as a justification for taking 1:36:14.320 --> 1:36:16.600 anyone right and specifically people who have entered within the 1:36:16.720 --> 1:36:19.120 last two years, many of whom were shipped to New 1:36:19.200 --> 1:36:22.320 York from other states, and saying, well, these people entered 1:36:22.320 --> 1:36:24.479 between ports of entry, which they did after the end 1:36:24.520 --> 1:36:26.919 of Title forty two, right when we return to processing 1:36:26.920 --> 1:36:29.080 people under Title eight, and they will place him in 1:36:29.080 --> 1:36:32.280 actibility to remove all proceedings like that. That is what 1:36:32.320 --> 1:36:36.080 they have been doing for a while. When he talks 1:36:36.320 --> 1:36:42.240 about the sanctuary policies. New York right now doesn't honor 1:36:42.320 --> 1:36:46.840 detainer requests. Right in theory, sanctuary laws prevent and Y see, 1:36:46.840 --> 1:36:48.920 from what I understand, from honoring detainer requests, which would 1:36:48.880 --> 1:36:51.960 be an extra forty eight hour detainer. We haven't, like, 1:36:52.000 --> 1:36:54.240 as Robert said, we haven't really seen enough to see 1:36:54.240 --> 1:36:56.559 you see what he's talking about there, But like, I 1:36:56.640 --> 1:36:58.519 don't know if he's talking about a change to those 1:36:58.560 --> 1:37:02.479 sanctuary policies or not. But yeah, that would be disappointing 1:37:02.520 --> 1:37:02.800 if you did. 1:37:02.840 --> 1:37:04.519 I mean, I don't see there's any indication that he's 1:37:04.560 --> 1:37:06.640 talking about a change to sanctuary policies. 1:37:07.000 --> 1:37:08.960 Well, when he's talking about we can cull them on 1:37:08.960 --> 1:37:13.519 one hundred and seventy serious crimes, right, what does he mean? 1:37:14.160 --> 1:37:16.080 Yeah, And I think this gets back to the fact 1:37:16.120 --> 1:37:18.479 that a press conference in the Oval Office is not 1:37:18.520 --> 1:37:21.640 going to give you a chance to adequately address an 1:37:21.680 --> 1:37:24.599 issue like this, and I see Trump trying to paper 1:37:24.680 --> 1:37:27.480 over it and move past as quickly as possible. Yeah, 1:37:27.520 --> 1:37:31.080 And I understand why you'd show up for this meeting, 1:37:31.800 --> 1:37:33.680 and I think it was probably, on the balance, the 1:37:33.800 --> 1:37:36.960 right thing to do. But like I am interested to 1:37:37.000 --> 1:37:39.400 see what he does next, because I think Trump is 1:37:39.439 --> 1:37:43.000 going to continue trying to push for accommodations. And it 1:37:43.120 --> 1:37:45.880 is kind of it is wild and unique to see 1:37:45.920 --> 1:37:48.360 that he seems to be willing to move on some stuff, 1:37:48.800 --> 1:37:50.720 but he's willing to move on some stuff because he 1:37:50.720 --> 1:37:53.400 thinks he can get Mom Donnie to soften some of 1:37:53.400 --> 1:37:54.520 his stances. 1:37:54.160 --> 1:37:56.320 I mean stances on what I mean. I mean, I 1:37:56.360 --> 1:37:57.280 don't on ice. 1:37:57.479 --> 1:38:00.479 I mean, that's what he's trying to do here. He's 1:38:00.520 --> 1:38:02.280 trying to build a case for that. 1:38:03.000 --> 1:38:04.800 I mean, I guess I don't know the degree to 1:38:04.840 --> 1:38:06.400 which we're using. 1:38:06.200 --> 1:38:08.360 The saying that this is a rogue government agency to 1:38:08.439 --> 1:38:11.599 saying that this is a government agent. That's what Trump 1:38:11.640 --> 1:38:14.000 is trying to push for. Yeah, I'm not saying Mom 1:38:14.040 --> 1:38:17.080 Donnie agreed with that. I think that the nature of 1:38:17.120 --> 1:38:19.000 this meeting did not give him enough time to push 1:38:19.040 --> 1:38:19.439 back on that. 1:38:20.439 --> 1:38:23.960 Sure, sure you have Mum Donnie pointing there towards like 1:38:24.000 --> 1:38:25.840 an instance of like you know, a mother and like 1:38:25.840 --> 1:38:30.559 a child getting affected by this, and like and using 1:38:30.560 --> 1:38:32.879 it as an example of like what they are trying 1:38:32.960 --> 1:38:38.320 to prevent and like focusing on like the stopping ice 1:38:38.400 --> 1:38:41.479 rates from happening, as as like the thing that Mam 1:38:41.479 --> 1:38:44.800 Donnie is pushing for there and Mam Donnie as a 1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:47.519 New York City mayor cannot abolish the entity of Ice, 1:38:48.160 --> 1:38:50.280 and so like the degree in which we're framed that 1:38:50.360 --> 1:38:53.439 a is like Mom Donny's like softening, I think still. 1:38:53.479 --> 1:38:55.599 I mean, yeah, like, as you've said, there's not enough 1:38:55.640 --> 1:38:57.440 here to make a full determination. 1:38:57.880 --> 1:38:58.400 Yeah. 1:38:58.479 --> 1:39:00.880 I just think that's that's what Trump wants to get 1:39:00.880 --> 1:39:01.320 out of this. 1:39:01.439 --> 1:39:04.000 I think Trump just wants to be associated with this 1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:07.000 guy who is currently, as Garrison said, very popular. 1:39:06.960 --> 1:39:09.479 And it is really wild to see him be so 1:39:09.600 --> 1:39:10.879 deferential to somebody. 1:39:11.080 --> 1:39:13.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean including in this this this 1:39:14.000 --> 1:39:17.559 question about Trump being a fascist, which he handled in 1:39:17.600 --> 1:39:21.799 a very uh, very fascinating way that this is nuts. 1:39:22.160 --> 1:39:25.640 Yeah, are you affirming that you think President Trump is 1:39:25.680 --> 1:39:26.240 a fascist? 1:39:26.520 --> 1:39:27.680 I've spoken about. 1:39:27.520 --> 1:39:33.520 That's okay, Okay, it's easier. It's easier than explaining. 1:39:33.120 --> 1:39:39.680 At Zorn did say yes during that exchange he did 1:39:40.200 --> 1:39:42.040 that he did not he in fact did. 1:39:42.320 --> 1:39:45.440 Yeah, he absolutely did. It's one of the most remarkable 1:39:45.479 --> 1:39:47.280 moments in American political history. 1:39:47.439 --> 1:39:47.599 Yeah. 1:39:47.600 --> 1:39:50.040 If I had any stretch of the imagination. 1:39:50.080 --> 1:39:53.599 As Trump pats on the side. And I mean it's 1:39:53.680 --> 1:39:56.400 it's wild for Trump. This word doesn't mean anything right 1:39:56.439 --> 1:39:59.719 for Trump, like him saying it's easier than explaining. That's 1:39:59.800 --> 1:40:01.800 just indicating to zort On that you don't have to 1:40:01.800 --> 1:40:04.320 do this like little like political game for this reporter 1:40:04.400 --> 1:40:06.320 and be like, you know, we have we have just 1:40:06.479 --> 1:40:09.559 we've disagreed on policies, which blah blah blah. Like Trump's like, no, 1:40:09.760 --> 1:40:11.599 you don't have to do that, it's easy and explaining 1:40:11.680 --> 1:40:14.439 just say it yeah, yeah, which is a sort of 1:40:14.479 --> 1:40:17.400 like a point like against like the media. That's from 1:40:17.439 --> 1:40:19.720 Trump's point of view. It's like you you don't have 1:40:19.720 --> 1:40:21.760 to do you don't have to do like the little 1:40:21.760 --> 1:40:23.639 the little dance for like this like New York Post 1:40:23.680 --> 1:40:25.719 reporter or whatever. Just say that I'm a fascist. 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:28.479 It's fine. Yeah. And because politics is for him a 1:40:28.560 --> 1:40:32.200 sort of behind closed doors boys club and they yes, 1:40:32.360 --> 1:40:33.960 they both have to go out and then deal with 1:40:34.040 --> 1:40:36.519 the media. But like you can sort of see that 1:40:36.560 --> 1:40:39.720 in this sort of highly viviality that Trump goes for there. 1:40:40.000 --> 1:40:42.240 I'm not saying that Ma'm Damie is less necessarily in 1:40:42.320 --> 1:40:44.120 his boys club. I'm just saying that that is how 1:40:44.160 --> 1:40:45.360 Trump perceives politics. 1:40:45.720 --> 1:40:48.000 Yeah, I mean he made other references like when when 1:40:48.240 --> 1:40:51.759 Trump was asked if he considers or on a g hottist, 1:40:52.000 --> 1:40:55.640 like someone else in the Republican Party called him, and 1:40:55.680 --> 1:40:57.160 Trump's like, no, I mean, the man sitting in front 1:40:57.160 --> 1:40:58.439 of me is not a too hottest People have to 1:40:58.479 --> 1:41:01.280 say certain things during camp pains, but the man I 1:41:01.280 --> 1:41:03.439 met was today, it's a very rational man. And like 1:41:03.760 --> 1:41:06.719 little lines like that, like people, Yeah, when you're a campaign, 1:41:06.800 --> 1:41:08.479 you have to say things that I think that he's 1:41:08.520 --> 1:41:10.479 getting at a similar point there, But there was multip 1:41:10.479 --> 1:41:13.759 points for this press conference where Trump defended Mamdani against 1:41:14.000 --> 1:41:18.720 like other aggressive questions about his focus on international law 1:41:18.800 --> 1:41:22.519 versus the Constitution, or why Zoron flew to DC instead 1:41:22.520 --> 1:41:26.559 of taking a greener train. Yeah, silly, silly stuff. And 1:41:26.600 --> 1:41:29.439 Trump was like Trump like dismissed these questions if like 1:41:29.479 --> 1:41:31.680 for Zar essentially, I mean like all stand up for you. 1:41:31.880 --> 1:41:33.960 Yeah, it's it's something else. 1:41:34.840 --> 1:41:38.280 There are more salient criticisms that there were reasonable criticisms 1:41:38.360 --> 1:41:41.360 you can make of some stuff he's done. Those are them. 1:41:42.000 --> 1:41:45.040 Yeah, it's just gotcha media stuff right, like which which 1:41:45.840 --> 1:41:49.040 it's interesting how well Trump is able to call sort 1:41:49.080 --> 1:41:52.600 of their bullshit. Yeah, always fascinating. 1:41:53.200 --> 1:41:56.719 One of the more hilarious attempts at I gotcha question 1:41:56.880 --> 1:42:00.639 is from Jack Pasovic, who was in the room, who 1:42:00.720 --> 1:42:01.280 asked this. 1:42:01.640 --> 1:42:05.519 God, he must have been having an absolute melt down. 1:42:05.760 --> 1:42:08.599 Yeah, he can't be happy about this, Okay. 1:42:09.640 --> 1:42:10.120 I want to know. 1:42:10.280 --> 1:42:14.320 One of the policies as well that Mayor, like Mandomie, 1:42:14.360 --> 1:42:16.439 talked to a number of times about on the campaign, 1:42:16.840 --> 1:42:20.400 was shifting the tax burden for property taxes from what 1:42:20.479 --> 1:42:25.200 he called minority communities to white based communities and putting 1:42:25.200 --> 1:42:27.880 more taxes on white people. I also noticed that in 1:42:27.920 --> 1:42:32.080 your acceptance speech you didn't mention didn't mention anything. 1:42:31.680 --> 1:42:34.600 About America or Christians or white people. 1:42:34.320 --> 1:42:36.320 In general, and so I didn't know if that was 1:42:36.560 --> 1:42:38.559 one of the policies that you guys had spoken about. 1:42:39.760 --> 1:42:44.920 Incredible, Yeah, And Trump's like smiling like a proud of 1:42:44.960 --> 1:42:50.200 father this whole time. As weird question, it's such an 1:42:50.280 --> 1:42:52.280 odds like schizophrenic moment. 1:42:52.720 --> 1:42:54.320 Yeah, it's it's weird. 1:42:54.400 --> 1:42:56.559 How much more he seems to like Zoran than like 1:42:56.800 --> 1:42:57.680 his supporters. 1:42:58.240 --> 1:43:00.799 Oh yeah, I mean a lot of his supports the losers, 1:43:00.840 --> 1:43:03.720 and Zorn's a winner, I mean from his cabinet members. Yeah, 1:43:03.720 --> 1:43:06.000 because they're losers, like like Pete hagg saith Elon Musk, 1:43:06.000 --> 1:43:06.400 they're losing. 1:43:06.520 --> 1:43:08.680 Yeah, they're all weeds, I mean JD. Van's right. 1:43:08.760 --> 1:43:12.360 Yeah, Zorn's has proved himself to be like an incredibly 1:43:12.439 --> 1:43:16.360 capable figure. There's a little moment as Jack's first asking 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:19.839 the question where Trump indicates to Zora, like, Okay, you 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:22.080 you handle this guy, you could you can have fun 1:43:22.120 --> 1:43:24.800 with this. Yeah, and it's it's it's very odd and 1:43:25.000 --> 1:43:28.120 not odd and it's unexplainable. I understand what's happening here. 1:43:28.160 --> 1:43:30.200 Actually I think this is actually very easy to understand, 1:43:30.479 --> 1:43:32.559 but it's just still it feels odd. 1:43:33.000 --> 1:43:36.439 Yeah, yeah, and just give him the adversarial politics was 1:43:36.479 --> 1:43:37.040 so used to. 1:43:37.520 --> 1:43:39.360 Like there's a lot of moments like this, like when 1:43:39.400 --> 1:43:41.800 when Trump's asked if he's gonna cut off federal funding 1:43:41.800 --> 1:43:44.040 to New York, he says, quote, I don't think that's 1:43:44.080 --> 1:43:46.760 going to happen. I think we're gonna help. And this 1:43:46.800 --> 1:43:48.840 is like an indication of like what Zora was trying 1:43:48.840 --> 1:43:50.759 to do in terms of harm reduction in this meeting, 1:43:51.240 --> 1:43:55.519 specifically around raids on National Guard deployment. And on, like 1:43:55.600 --> 1:43:58.479 cutting off federal funds to the city. One of the 1:43:58.560 --> 1:44:01.799 methods I think that Zoron used to help get Trump 1:44:01.840 --> 1:44:05.559 on his side is appeal to like the real estate 1:44:05.680 --> 1:44:09.800 brain that Trump has with mom Donnie's like left wing 1:44:10.200 --> 1:44:13.360 yimby style of policies, talking about rent coming down by 1:44:13.360 --> 1:44:16.439 building housing. And how much that surprised Trump because Trump 1:44:16.479 --> 1:44:18.960 has this conception of people, like of people usually on 1:44:19.040 --> 1:44:22.840 these like left wing positions are very very nimby in 1:44:22.840 --> 1:44:25.000 a lot of ways, and Trump was like surprised by this. 1:44:25.040 --> 1:44:26.960 I guess he hasn't really encountered like a left wing 1:44:27.000 --> 1:44:30.720 yimby before, and this like this like caught him off guard. Yeah, 1:44:30.960 --> 1:44:35.400 there's a good point here where Trump expresses this. 1:44:36.160 --> 1:44:38.519 Now we may disagree how we get there. The rent 1:44:38.520 --> 1:44:41.800 coming down, I think one of the things that really 1:44:41.840 --> 1:44:45.960 gleaned very very much today. He'd like to see him 1:44:46.000 --> 1:44:48.920 come down, ideally by building a lot of additional housing here. 1:44:49.200 --> 1:44:51.360 That's the ultimate way. He agrees with that, and so 1:44:51.479 --> 1:44:55.080 do I. But if I read the newspapers in the stories, 1:44:55.120 --> 1:44:57.760 I don't hear I don't hear that, but I hear 1:44:57.840 --> 1:44:59.479 I heard him say it today, and I think that's 1:44:59.520 --> 1:45:02.880 a very positive step. No, I don't expect. I expect 1:45:02.920 --> 1:45:05.519 to be helping him, not hurting him. A big help 1:45:05.960 --> 1:45:09.240 because I want New York City to be great. Look, 1:45:09.360 --> 1:45:11.320 I love New York City. It's where I come from. 1:45:11.400 --> 1:45:12.599 I spent a lot of years there. 1:45:12.720 --> 1:45:17.000 Now I'm right here, am Ray okay. 1:45:17.080 --> 1:45:19.840 And later Trump clarified that he would feel comfortable living 1:45:20.120 --> 1:45:23.120 in New York under Mam Donnie and compared Mam Donnie's 1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:26.120 popularity to that of Bernie Sanders, as well as how 1:45:26.640 --> 1:45:29.879 supporters of Bernie moved over to Trump and then vice versa, 1:45:30.200 --> 1:45:32.439 and through Trump talking about this, you can start to 1:45:32.560 --> 1:45:35.639 kind of peak behind the current of like how Zorn 1:45:35.760 --> 1:45:39.080 was framing his version of populism, which was able to 1:45:39.640 --> 1:45:43.160 get Trump to be like friendly towards like the economic 1:45:43.439 --> 1:45:48.800 affordability sides of his policy proposals. In talking about like 1:45:48.800 --> 1:45:51.280 the crossover of support between Bernie and Trump and twenty 1:45:51.280 --> 1:45:55.120 sixteen and the crossover support between Trump twenty four and 1:45:55.280 --> 1:45:57.760 Ma'm donnie in twenty twenty five. At one point, Mom 1:45:57.760 --> 1:46:00.320 Donnie did also address the genocide in Gaza. 1:46:00.400 --> 1:46:03.920 As mister Mumdney, you've accused the US government of committing 1:46:04.000 --> 1:46:06.920 genocide and Gaza white. President Trump was working on peace. 1:46:07.479 --> 1:46:11.479 Why that I've spoken about the Israeli government committing genocide 1:46:11.479 --> 1:46:14.439 and I've spoken about our government funding it. And I 1:46:14.439 --> 1:46:17.000 shared with the President in our meeting about the concern 1:46:17.080 --> 1:46:19.280 that many New Yorkers have of wanting their tax dollars 1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:22.000 to go towards the benefit of New Yorkers and their 1:46:22.040 --> 1:46:24.960 ability to afford basic dignity. And what we see right 1:46:25.040 --> 1:46:27.479 now is we're in the ninth consecutive year of more 1:46:27.520 --> 1:46:30.240 than one hundred thousand school children being homeless in our city, 1:46:30.400 --> 1:46:32.759 and there's a desperate need not only for the following 1:46:32.760 --> 1:46:35.880 of human rights, but also the following through on the 1:46:35.880 --> 1:46:38.040 promises we've made New Yorkers. And I appreciated the meeting 1:46:38.080 --> 1:46:39.960 we had and the work that we can do. 1:46:40.200 --> 1:46:42.720 Agree that President Trump didn't do a piece and work 1:46:42.800 --> 1:46:45.040 hard to make the peace because we were hard to 1:46:45.040 --> 1:46:46.880 do with the peace in the Midate East and everywhere. 1:46:47.040 --> 1:46:48.559 What do you agree with that? 1:46:48.720 --> 1:46:51.200 I appreciate all efforts towards peace. And I shared with 1:46:51.240 --> 1:46:53.439 President Trump that when I spoke to Trump voters on 1:46:53.479 --> 1:46:56.240 Hillside Avenue, including one of whom was a pharmacist, that 1:46:56.360 --> 1:46:58.720 spoke about how President Trump's father actually went to that 1:46:58.720 --> 1:47:01.559 pharmacy not too far from Jamaine states that people were 1:47:01.600 --> 1:47:04.200 tired of seeing our tax dollars fund endless wars. And 1:47:04.200 --> 1:47:07.000 I also believe that we have to follow through on 1:47:07.520 --> 1:47:10.240 the international human rights and I know that still today 1:47:10.320 --> 1:47:12.439 those are being violated and that continues to be work 1:47:12.439 --> 1:47:14.160 that has to be done no matter where we're speaking of. 1:47:15.360 --> 1:47:19.120 Man, that's I I that's so complicated, so conflicting. 1:47:19.600 --> 1:47:21.040 That's a lot going on. 1:47:21.040 --> 1:47:24.479 On one hand, it's really good that somebody on record 1:47:24.680 --> 1:47:28.000 said in the White House that the US is enabling 1:47:28.040 --> 1:47:30.679 Israel and continuing a genocide. I'm glad that that happened. 1:47:30.960 --> 1:47:31.400 Yeah. 1:47:31.439 --> 1:47:33.599 On the other hand, the fact that it's off roaded 1:47:33.640 --> 1:47:36.640 so quickly to now let's talk about like what we 1:47:36.680 --> 1:47:41.400 want to do for New Yorkers, and it is like, yeah, 1:47:41.920 --> 1:47:45.000 it's not I don't know, it's it's the only way 1:47:45.000 --> 1:47:46.040 this was going to happen at all. 1:47:46.080 --> 1:47:49.680 I suppose it's he's the main It's very no. 1:47:49.720 --> 1:47:55.120 I agree, I agree, but it's totally awkward, like it's yeah, 1:47:55.200 --> 1:47:57.559 it's it's totally a little lot, especially when the topic 1:47:57.680 --> 1:48:01.200 is genocide, right, Like the vote from genocide to housing 1:48:01.200 --> 1:48:03.519 affordability and understand that both the serious issues. 1:48:03.560 --> 1:48:05.839 It's still a tonal shift that is jarring. 1:48:06.600 --> 1:48:09.320 And like, yes, it's absolutely fair to say he's the 1:48:09.320 --> 1:48:11.959 mayor of New York. He has no ability to influence 1:48:12.120 --> 1:48:14.880 US policy in terms of selling arms to Israel, and 1:48:14.920 --> 1:48:17.360 the fact that he brought it up at all is positive. 1:48:17.360 --> 1:48:20.400 But boy, is that is that a wild nit or 1:48:20.439 --> 1:48:22.479 so of talking. 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:24.720 I think the reason why he brought it up is 1:48:24.760 --> 1:48:29.439 to talk about specifically, like funds that we are sending 1:48:29.479 --> 1:48:31.920 to Israel should not be sent to Israel now, those 1:48:32.000 --> 1:48:35.639 funds that should be being used in the United States 1:48:35.680 --> 1:48:38.360 to do things to help people here. And that is 1:48:38.680 --> 1:48:41.439 like why he brought that up as a seg well. 1:48:41.240 --> 1:48:45.759 And reiterating that Trump supporters often agree with the idea 1:48:45.760 --> 1:48:47.880 that we should not be spending this much money on 1:48:47.960 --> 1:48:51.560 this sending weapons over the world to fund wars overseas. 1:48:52.080 --> 1:48:56.200 It'll be interesting to see if shit continues with Venezuela, 1:48:56.960 --> 1:49:00.120 how that all moves. But I think it's valuable to 1:49:00.200 --> 1:49:03.400 like really slam that home in the White House that like, hey, 1:49:03.439 --> 1:49:06.720 you ran on getting the US out of these kind 1:49:06.760 --> 1:49:11.479 of violent entanglements overseas. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad someone said it. 1:49:11.520 --> 1:49:14.160 I guess, yeah, it's just weird. This is all a 1:49:14.240 --> 1:49:15.040 very weird meeting. 1:49:15.479 --> 1:49:17.599 Yeah, yeah, the whole thing was jarring. 1:49:17.600 --> 1:49:19.400 I guess. There was another point there where he was 1:49:19.439 --> 1:49:22.439 talking about like like local local New York businesses and 1:49:22.520 --> 1:49:24.519 Trump's father like went to this pharmacy, and I think 1:49:24.640 --> 1:49:28.000 stuff like that is the tactics that he used to 1:49:28.080 --> 1:49:30.800 get Trump to be friendly with him as well as 1:49:30.960 --> 1:49:34.280 Trump later spoke about how in one of the rooms 1:49:34.280 --> 1:49:36.240 that they were meeting and there was a portrait of 1:49:36.360 --> 1:49:38.720 FDR which Trump had personally like picked out of the 1:49:38.720 --> 1:49:42.080 storage faults to hang, and Zorn asked him about the 1:49:42.120 --> 1:49:44.599 portrait and asked if you could get a picture with it, 1:49:44.800 --> 1:49:46.120 and this seemed to please Trump a lot. 1:49:46.240 --> 1:49:46.439 Trum. 1:49:46.439 --> 1:49:48.080 Trump wasn't able to talk about how he picked up 1:49:48.080 --> 1:49:50.599 the picture, and then Trump said a few really interesting things. 1:49:51.240 --> 1:49:54.760 He's like, I guess or it's a big fan of 1:49:55.040 --> 1:49:59.320 FDR and the New Deal, which is phenomenal maneuvering from 1:49:59.400 --> 1:50:05.240 Zor a classic technique to get like democratic socialist politics 1:50:05.240 --> 1:50:08.080 across to someone. Again, there's moments like that stuff with 1:50:08.240 --> 1:50:11.000 stuff of how we talked about like Bernie some some 1:50:11.080 --> 1:50:14.559 you know, the you know, regular populist rhetoric, talking about 1:50:14.560 --> 1:50:17.760 the crossover between you know, voters from between Trump and Mamdannie, 1:50:17.920 --> 1:50:20.680 just his general love of New York and FDR New Deal. 1:50:20.720 --> 1:50:22.680 You can see all these things that were used to 1:50:22.800 --> 1:50:25.479 like navigate through this meeting to get to get Trump 1:50:25.520 --> 1:50:28.880 to actually seed ground on a lot of stuff with 1:50:29.000 --> 1:50:31.599 I think very very minimal concessions, if any, if any 1:50:31.640 --> 1:50:34.160 real concessions even from zor like at all. Like I 1:50:34.160 --> 1:50:37.320 think in general, Trump was the one that moved rhetorically 1:50:37.320 --> 1:50:40.679 throughout this meeting and moved on like actual like actual 1:50:40.840 --> 1:50:44.920 like promises to withhold funds to invade the city with 1:50:45.040 --> 1:50:47.120 National Guard troops. I think Trump was the one who 1:50:47.120 --> 1:50:49.920 actually seeded territory in this meeting. I do not see 1:50:50.240 --> 1:50:53.160 much evidence of things that m Donnie had could have 1:50:53.160 --> 1:50:56.400 personal impact on actually like losing losing ground on those 1:50:56.400 --> 1:50:57.400 things throughout this meeting. 1:50:58.120 --> 1:50:59.840 It is almost important to remember that he has a 1:51:00.520 --> 1:51:02.720 man ARMBI two, has a rhetorical role to play, right, 1:51:02.760 --> 1:51:04.160 and yes, he is Mayor of New York. He is 1:51:04.160 --> 1:51:07.040 also an extremely popular politician at the moment, and like 1:51:07.160 --> 1:51:12.360 when he talks about things like the genocide in Gaza, 1:51:12.920 --> 1:51:15.160 that that has rhetorical value. I'm not saying he can 1:51:15.200 --> 1:51:16.920 go to New York City Council and stop it, but 1:51:17.040 --> 1:51:20.000 like him saying that it is a genocide at the 1:51:20.000 --> 1:51:23.479 White House is important, and like it is important that, 1:51:23.560 --> 1:51:26.080 like when he has this this podium in front of 1:51:26.080 --> 1:51:27.680 the whole world at the White House, so he used 1:51:27.680 --> 1:51:30.880 it to talk about the genocide and he did, But like, 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:33.360 I don't think we should only think about this in 1:51:33.439 --> 1:51:35.840 terms of New York. Like, it is sure important that 1:51:35.920 --> 1:51:37.760 someone said that, and I hope he keeps using that 1:51:37.840 --> 1:51:40.200 platform he has right now to say that as someone 1:51:40.200 --> 1:51:43.519 who like is definitely looked up to nationally in like 1:51:43.600 --> 1:51:44.680 DSA circles. 1:51:45.439 --> 1:51:47.320 I mean, I think, and this this goes into some 1:51:47.360 --> 1:51:49.800 of the the I guess kind of I mean, some 1:51:49.800 --> 1:51:51.519 of them are critiques, some of them aren't even really 1:51:51.520 --> 1:51:53.120 critiques of this meeting. I think a lot of them 1:51:53.120 --> 1:51:56.799 are people jumping on the opportunity to to just attacks 1:51:56.960 --> 1:51:59.680 or on with no real construction critique there. But then 1:51:59.720 --> 1:52:02.280 there's this kind of relates to these two different forms 1:52:02.280 --> 1:52:04.439 of politics that people use on the left, like politics 1:52:04.479 --> 1:52:06.680 as a form of personal expression, as a form of 1:52:06.680 --> 1:52:10.640 like posturing as a as a form of like maintaining 1:52:10.800 --> 1:52:13.840 of moral purity versus politics as an actual practical method 1:52:13.880 --> 1:52:17.920 of achieving cyst like systematic change, and people engage in 1:52:18.040 --> 1:52:20.960 these two different modes, and there're thing there's a role 1:52:21.080 --> 1:52:23.160 for both of these modes of politics. Actually, I think 1:52:23.200 --> 1:52:25.880 both of these have have a degree of necessity. And 1:52:26.000 --> 1:52:30.080 Zoron has has taken one specific path, and there's the 1:52:30.120 --> 1:52:32.439 others who are who are very clear in having taken 1:52:32.479 --> 1:52:35.200 the other path. And there's there's a bunch of a 1:52:35.200 --> 1:52:38.160 bunch of a bunch of critiques from this meeting quote 1:52:38.200 --> 1:52:41.680 unquote critiques, including from a formal Seattle City councilman who 1:52:41.760 --> 1:52:46.080 is now running for Congress as a socialist, Kashauma sawant quote. 1:52:46.160 --> 1:52:48.960 If I were in Mamdani's position, instead of asking Trump 1:52:49.040 --> 1:52:51.759 to meet me, I would have announced a mass rally 1:52:51.800 --> 1:52:53.960 of tens of thousands of people in New York City 1:52:54.040 --> 1:52:56.200 to protest against ice rates, to declare that New York 1:52:56.240 --> 1:52:58.960 City will not tolerate ice and will fight Trump every 1:52:58.960 --> 1:53:00.920 inch of the way. I will lunch mass campaign for 1:53:00.960 --> 1:53:04.599 free transit and free childcare, and build a militant movement 1:53:04.640 --> 1:53:08.640 to win unquote. These are things Zoran's are already participated in. 1:53:09.200 --> 1:53:11.840 These are things that have happened. Just one more, like 1:53:11.880 --> 1:53:14.320 one more protest that's going to be more effective than 1:53:14.360 --> 1:53:18.960 actually having Trump seed some ground on the scale of enforcement. 1:53:19.560 --> 1:53:21.480 This is part of why I have this like hesitation 1:53:22.080 --> 1:53:25.280 around discussion of Zoran, because I think he's actually doing 1:53:25.680 --> 1:53:29.920 kind of strategic moves to actually limit the amount of 1:53:30.040 --> 1:53:32.360 damage that Trump's able to do in the city. And 1:53:32.400 --> 1:53:35.680 he's doing it through like rhetorical maneuvers, and some of 1:53:35.720 --> 1:53:38.960 that may feel awkward to watch in a like a 1:53:39.160 --> 1:53:42.160 live press conference, but I think the actual end results 1:53:42.200 --> 1:53:44.760 of that have a lot more potential than say, you know, 1:53:44.800 --> 1:53:48.400 a rally of ten thousand people which effectively does nothing. 1:53:48.800 --> 1:53:50.240 Yeah. I mean we've had a bunch of those that 1:53:50.360 --> 1:53:54.400 that is politics is performance right lately like that. Yeah, 1:53:54.520 --> 1:53:57.040 people are very attached to that mode of political engagement 1:53:57.040 --> 1:54:00.400 in the United States, like that that lie you know, 1:54:00.439 --> 1:54:04.920 walking around with signs of shouting, demonstration and political intent. 1:54:05.400 --> 1:54:08.639 It has not been successful in stopping ice grabbing random 1:54:08.640 --> 1:54:09.960 people of the street, I'll just say that. 1:54:10.200 --> 1:54:12.880 And people have been criticizing Zoran just simply for even 1:54:12.880 --> 1:54:15.960 taking this meeting because it's somehow quote unquote like humanizes 1:54:16.120 --> 1:54:19.080 Trump in some way, like Trump doesn't need to be humanized, right, 1:54:19.080 --> 1:54:22.000 Like it's like Zoron's platform by Donald Trump. He is 1:54:22.040 --> 1:54:26.160 the president of the United States. He doesn't he he wins, 1:54:26.200 --> 1:54:29.439 he has that position, he has bought the legitimacy like 1:54:29.479 --> 1:54:33.400 this this, I don't think Zoron being there actually rehabilitates 1:54:33.440 --> 1:54:36.360 Trump's image in a meaningful way. I think what he's 1:54:36.360 --> 1:54:39.040 doing is trying to actually make New York a safer 1:54:39.440 --> 1:54:42.160 and more affordable place to live by doing a kind 1:54:42.160 --> 1:54:45.240 of complicated political maneuver, which I'm sure it's kind of 1:54:45.320 --> 1:54:47.640 upsetting to kind of go through, but he's doing it. 1:54:47.920 --> 1:54:50.840 And the wave of criticism that it's kind of based 1:54:50.920 --> 1:54:53.960 on based on that sort of you know, humanizing argument 1:54:54.040 --> 1:54:56.520 or this stuff on, like why doesn't Zorn just protest 1:54:56.560 --> 1:54:59.520 instead of actually trying to like cut deals or like 1:54:59.760 --> 1:55:02.320 not and cut deals because that sounds so like slimy, 1:55:02.320 --> 1:55:05.240 but like actually like negotiate with the president. And like 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:10.040 this criticism comes on the tail end like a week's 1:55:10.080 --> 1:55:13.360 worth of very reflexive criticism of Zoran for his retention 1:55:13.560 --> 1:55:17.520 of New York Police Department Commissioner Jessica Tish, as well 1:55:17.560 --> 1:55:20.600 as advocating against the New York City DSA's endorsement of 1:55:20.600 --> 1:55:24.360 city councilmen and new DSA member she offses primary campaign 1:55:24.400 --> 1:55:28.360 against Congressman Jokim Jeffries. Some of these criticisms, I get 1:55:28.360 --> 1:55:29.880 the jeffersone a little bit more, But some of these 1:55:29.880 --> 1:55:32.720 criticisms I find to be a little odd, mostly considering 1:55:32.760 --> 1:55:34.920 the fact that Zoran has been open about his plan 1:55:34.960 --> 1:55:38.960 to retain Tish for literal months, for literal months, and 1:55:39.160 --> 1:55:41.680 just this week people acted like it was this massive 1:55:41.760 --> 1:55:45.959 betrayal in his like ideological purity or his stated promises, 1:55:45.960 --> 1:55:48.080 which just isn't true. He's been open about this like 1:55:48.120 --> 1:55:51.360 since like last summer, and on the on the Jeffrey 1:55:51.440 --> 1:55:53.320 side of things, I think Zorn's point of view here 1:55:53.360 --> 1:55:56.280 is at a difficult primary campaign and one that's probably 1:55:56.280 --> 1:55:59.840 going to be unsuccessful. Based on the Zoron twenty twenty 1:56:00.280 --> 1:56:04.320 five general vote map, it shows that that'd be very, 1:56:04.480 --> 1:56:07.480 very challenging. But this, this this difficult primary against referees 1:56:07.680 --> 1:56:11.400 would also inhibit Zoron's ability to implement the affordability agenda 1:56:11.480 --> 1:56:14.280 in the city. The New York Times quoted a leaked 1:56:14.320 --> 1:56:18.480 portion of the DSA's endorsement meeting with Zoran saying, quote, 1:56:18.520 --> 1:56:20.520 the choice before us is not whether to vote for 1:56:20.680 --> 1:56:23.480 Chai or Hageeme at the ballot box. The choice is 1:56:23.520 --> 1:56:25.800 how to spend the next year. Do we want to 1:56:25.840 --> 1:56:28.800 spend it defending caricatures of our movement or do we 1:56:28.840 --> 1:56:31.760 want to spend it fulfilling the agenda at the heart 1:56:31.880 --> 1:56:34.920 of that very same movement. Unquote, Zora has a very 1:56:34.920 --> 1:56:37.520 specific focus right now on the New York City government 1:56:37.560 --> 1:56:41.680 and implementing the agenda for New York City and the 1:56:41.720 --> 1:56:46.800 congressional campaign would, in his view, only put more roadblocks 1:56:46.800 --> 1:56:49.080 to that at this point in time, versus, you know, 1:56:49.160 --> 1:56:52.400 keeping a left wing ally in the New York City Council. 1:56:52.880 --> 1:56:54.680 I guess I don't see why they can't do both. 1:56:54.840 --> 1:56:57.880 Like they will be defending caricatures of their movement for 1:56:57.960 --> 1:57:01.320 sure the next forever, right until the Internet and and 1:57:01.600 --> 1:57:04.800 stupid politics the stopping part of a politics which isn't 1:57:04.800 --> 1:57:07.880 coming anytime soon. Like, I think it'd be perfectly possible 1:57:07.880 --> 1:57:09.880 to give that endorsement and still say my job as 1:57:09.920 --> 1:57:11.600 mayor is to do the shit that I promised to do. 1:57:12.120 --> 1:57:14.080 I also endorse this person because I think they're a 1:57:14.080 --> 1:57:18.760 better person than the Keem Jeffries, who has been very poor. Okay, 1:57:18.920 --> 1:57:21.480 I don't I don't see those two things as mutually exclusive. 1:57:22.600 --> 1:57:25.640 We need to talk about MTG, if only very briefly. 1:57:26.040 --> 1:57:27.320 What is there to say. 1:57:27.560 --> 1:57:33.480 That Magic the Gathering has finally reclaimed the acronym? Oh good, Yeah, 1:57:33.560 --> 1:57:36.360 Marjorie Tayler Green leaving politics? 1:57:36.720 --> 1:57:40.520 Well maybe, well she's leaving the house. Is at the end, 1:57:40.600 --> 1:57:42.560 at the end of the year, is leaving the House. 1:57:42.560 --> 1:57:43.560 See what she's announced? 1:57:43.880 --> 1:57:45.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:57:45.400 --> 1:57:47.720 It is unclear how she will continue her career. 1:57:48.440 --> 1:57:52.000 Maybe maybe Zoran will be taking her seat. Maybe the 1:57:52.080 --> 1:57:52.920 Trump's new friends. 1:57:52.960 --> 1:57:54.960 I mean, I really don't think he's much interest in 1:57:55.320 --> 1:57:57.640 being in the House of Representatives, especially in Georgia. 1:57:57.760 --> 1:57:58.800 Oh would jesus. 1:57:59.120 --> 1:58:01.760 He has a much more important role now. I guess 1:58:01.760 --> 1:58:03.440 like he's able to do a lot more as executive 1:58:03.520 --> 1:58:04.800 New York than he ever would be as like a 1:58:04.840 --> 1:58:09.280 single rep in Yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah, no more MTG. 1:58:10.280 --> 1:58:11.800 Okay, well great. 1:58:12.600 --> 1:58:15.560 If you want to contact us, do you can reach 1:58:15.600 --> 1:58:20.800 out to us at cool Zone, tips at proton dot me. 1:58:21.640 --> 1:58:45.320 We reported the news, We reported the news. 1:58:38.120 --> 1:58:42.960 Grinder. I hardly this is it could happen here where 1:58:43.000 --> 1:58:46.840 today the it is gay flirting and or harassment, and 1:58:47.000 --> 1:58:50.480 the here is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. During the twenty twenty four 1:58:50.840 --> 1:58:55.480 Republican National Convention. I'm gay also known by my undercover 1:58:55.560 --> 1:59:00.480 alias Garrison Davis, and I was lucky enough to be 1:59:00.720 --> 1:59:04.440 one of our on the ground RNZ correspondence. A few 1:59:04.440 --> 1:59:07.600 weeks ago. We provided daily coverage of the GOP Coronation 1:59:07.680 --> 1:59:11.600 festival based on our conversations with delegates, lobbyists, and think 1:59:11.680 --> 1:59:15.240 tank ghoules, and reported on the general trends in rhetoric 1:59:15.480 --> 1:59:18.680 used by popular speakers at the event. We'll have some 1:59:18.720 --> 1:59:21.080 more in depth episodes about those topics in the weeks 1:59:21.080 --> 1:59:23.839 to come, using more of our recorded interviews we collected 1:59:23.880 --> 1:59:27.240 at the convention. But on top of our regular coverage, 1:59:27.440 --> 1:59:30.360 I also had a special assignment that I'm more or 1:59:30.440 --> 1:59:34.360 less assigned to myself. On this show, we often talk 1:59:34.400 --> 1:59:38.200 about right wing extremism and issues facing gay and trans people, 1:59:38.320 --> 1:59:41.560 including the various ways conservatives and Christian nationalists are trying 1:59:41.600 --> 1:59:44.240 to make life harder for queer people, whether through legislation, 1:59:44.600 --> 1:59:48.960 online harassment, and physical violence. As these are two of 1:59:49.000 --> 1:59:52.520 our most frequently covered topics being at the Republican National 1:59:52.520 --> 1:59:56.680 Convention provided me with the perfect opportunity to investigate the 1:59:56.680 --> 2:00:02.680 intersection between conservatism and homosection U. For years, I've heard 2:00:02.800 --> 2:00:06.960 rumors and urban legends about a massive influx of Republicans 2:00:07.320 --> 2:00:10.720 flocking to the gay hookup app Grinder to get laid 2:00:10.840 --> 2:00:14.760 during the RNC. Whether they be twenty year old Republican 2:00:14.800 --> 2:00:18.240 twinks from Miami or fifty three year old self hating, 2:00:18.280 --> 2:00:23.160 closeted gay men from Idaho trapped in loveless marriages, curiosity 2:00:23.320 --> 2:00:26.560 has often gotten the better of me, and I needed 2:00:26.600 --> 2:00:31.240 to know how many homosexual Republicans were actually logging onto Grinder. 2:00:32.200 --> 2:00:35.400 In case you're unfamiliar, Grinder is technically a dating app 2:00:35.480 --> 2:00:39.680 that serves the LGBTQ community, but in actuality, it is 2:00:39.760 --> 2:00:42.240 a mediocre hookup app that mostly serves as a way 2:00:42.280 --> 2:00:45.600 for strangers in their forties to completely unprompted send you 2:00:45.760 --> 2:00:49.520 unflattering pictures of their penis. Grinder was launched in two 2:00:49.520 --> 2:00:52.520 thousand and nine and is arguably the largest and most 2:00:52.520 --> 2:00:56.280 popular gay dating app, especially among men. Grinder has only 2:00:56.280 --> 2:00:59.960 been around for two in person RNCs prior to this point, 2:01:00.240 --> 2:01:04.160 twelve and twenty sixteen. Since all convention activities moved online 2:01:04.240 --> 2:01:07.720 during twenty twenty for the pandemic. So this July, for 2:01:07.800 --> 2:01:11.560 the first time in eight years, Republicans from all around 2:01:11.560 --> 2:01:14.240 the country could gather in one city and once their 2:01:14.280 --> 2:01:18.360 wives fell asleep, log onto Grinder and this episode, I'm 2:01:18.360 --> 2:01:24.200 going to tell you about my RNC Grinder experience. Before 2:01:24.240 --> 2:01:26.280 traveling to the city that was about to be invaded 2:01:26.320 --> 2:01:28.880 by all of the weirdest Republicans in the country, I 2:01:28.960 --> 2:01:32.040 needed to do some prep to help ensure safety and 2:01:32.080 --> 2:01:35.960 success in my investigative endeavor. I hope you queers liked 2:01:35.960 --> 2:01:40.200 that terrible pun. Based on the massive increase in violent 2:01:40.400 --> 2:01:43.480 anti trans rhetoric coming from the GOP, I already knew 2:01:43.520 --> 2:01:45.400 that I would be dusting off my old boy motor 2:01:45.400 --> 2:01:49.600 skills and going undercover as a cisgender male. Although my 2:01:49.640 --> 2:01:52.640 ability to pass as a straight mail is debatable, I 2:01:52.640 --> 2:01:57.200 can at least easily pass as a not quite straight mail. 2:01:57.880 --> 2:02:01.080 My transfeminine fashion taste has been skewed more mask lesbian 2:02:01.080 --> 2:02:03.840 in recent years, so clothing wasn't really an issue. I 2:02:03.960 --> 2:02:07.400 packed up basically all my button up collar shirts, three ties, 2:02:07.560 --> 2:02:11.520 two black suits, and a beige London fog trench coat. Basically, 2:02:11.600 --> 2:02:14.280 the vibe I was going for was half young Republican, 2:02:14.720 --> 2:02:18.640 half Roman towel boy dressed as a nineteen fifties FBI agent. 2:02:19.080 --> 2:02:22.560 I refer to this as Dale Cooper moting. I was 2:02:22.640 --> 2:02:24.840 unwilling to cut my hair to match most of the 2:02:25.040 --> 2:02:28.680 young Republican frat boys, so I settled on styling my 2:02:28.800 --> 2:02:33.600 wavy blonde locks like Baron Trump meets Total Swinton in Constantine. 2:02:33.680 --> 2:02:36.440 I was kind of Gabriel maxing for most of the convention, 2:02:37.160 --> 2:02:40.000 and though most attendees were unable to pick up on 2:02:40.080 --> 2:02:43.800 my dikish undertones, the one day I wasn't wearing a tie, 2:02:43.880 --> 2:02:46.240 I did get she heard by the Secret Service when 2:02:46.360 --> 2:02:49.960 entering the convention through a security checkpoint. They're going woke. 2:02:51.000 --> 2:02:53.880 So that was my general look for the convention. I 2:02:53.920 --> 2:02:57.760 also completely remade my grinder profile for the RNZ for 2:02:57.840 --> 2:03:00.720 simplicity's sake, I got to emphasize my twinking past and 2:03:00.760 --> 2:03:05.160 removed the explicitly non binary transgender aspects of my profile, 2:03:05.760 --> 2:03:09.600 replacing some of my more trans coded photos with pictures 2:03:09.680 --> 2:03:14.000 of my light Yagami and Dale Cooper cosplay. Perhaps next 2:03:14.120 --> 2:03:17.200 RNC I can experiment with discovering how many of the 2:03:17.280 --> 2:03:20.320 RNC attendees are chasers. But for safety's at sake, I 2:03:20.400 --> 2:03:23.480 went to more stealth, both online and in person at 2:03:23.760 --> 2:03:27.800 RNC related events. For my main profile picture, I chose 2:03:27.840 --> 2:03:30.880 a pretty basic photo of me with disheveled hair, wearing 2:03:30.920 --> 2:03:33.640 a light gray shirt and thin black tie, looking just 2:03:33.800 --> 2:03:39.000 frankly exhausted. I chose the simple yet elegant user name Twink, 2:03:39.560 --> 2:03:43.600 and for my bio wrote gen z in town for Convention, 2:03:44.360 --> 2:03:47.080 which I thought was pretty funny and signals to people 2:03:47.160 --> 2:03:48.880 that yes, I am here for the R and C, 2:03:49.520 --> 2:03:53.840 but leaves the exact reason why still a bit mysterious. 2:03:54.280 --> 2:03:57.720 So this was my bait. On my way to the airport, 2:03:57.840 --> 2:04:00.000 I was already dressed for the part, as I says 2:04:00.000 --> 2:04:03.200 expected the flight from Atlanta to Milwaukee would be part 2:04:03.240 --> 2:04:07.000 of the whole RNC experience. I arrived at the gate 2:04:07.120 --> 2:04:11.240 and the vibe shift was immediate. Older white men with 2:04:11.320 --> 2:04:14.800 even whiter hair wearing a mix of poorly tailored suits 2:04:15.040 --> 2:04:18.840 and country club polo shirts fit for the driving range. 2:04:18.880 --> 2:04:23.320 They all kind of looked like my Republican grandfather. The women, meanwhile, 2:04:23.400 --> 2:04:26.800 regardless of age, were all cause playing their favorite female 2:04:26.840 --> 2:04:30.640 Fox News anchor with bleached blonde hair. There were a 2:04:30.680 --> 2:04:34.280 handful of delegates as well as Republican super fans wearing 2:04:34.320 --> 2:04:37.640 Trump buttons and mega hats, just really excited to be 2:04:37.680 --> 2:04:40.040 going to the convention, the way a NERD would be 2:04:40.040 --> 2:04:43.160 excited to go to San Diego Comic con. Others at 2:04:43.160 --> 2:04:45.879 the gate were more subdued, perhaps not wanting to attract 2:04:45.920 --> 2:04:49.440 too much attention in the Atlanta airport, but I could 2:04:49.440 --> 2:04:52.560 still overhear them getting into quiet small talk about their 2:04:52.680 --> 2:04:56.880 RNC expectations and in hushed tones, asking others at the 2:04:56.920 --> 2:05:01.200 gate if they were going to the convention. And that's 2:05:01.200 --> 2:05:04.000 what everyone called it, not the Republican Convention, not the 2:05:04.080 --> 2:05:09.200 GOP convention or the RNC the convention. As I was 2:05:09.200 --> 2:05:12.520 bording the plane, an older woman with straw like blonde hair, 2:05:12.760 --> 2:05:15.320 sitting a few rows in front of me waved me 2:05:15.520 --> 2:05:19.320 and asked, young man, are you going to the convention. 2:05:20.240 --> 2:05:23.240 I gave my best yes, ma'am, took my seat, and 2:05:23.280 --> 2:05:26.160 then heard her remark to her friend about how happy 2:05:26.200 --> 2:05:29.160 she was that more young people are attending the convention, 2:05:29.680 --> 2:05:32.360 and I would suspect she would be quite disappointed to 2:05:32.440 --> 2:05:35.240 learn why I was attending the convention and what I 2:05:35.320 --> 2:05:38.480 was doing there, mainly trying to collect as much information 2:05:38.840 --> 2:05:43.400 about these weird RNC Grinder Republicans as I can. And 2:05:43.440 --> 2:05:46.840 you will hear more about those weird Grinder RNC Republicans 2:05:47.160 --> 2:05:49.840 after the break. This episode is brought to you in 2:05:49.880 --> 2:05:53.320 part by the top Gun soundtrack, which I was listening 2:05:53.400 --> 2:05:55.960 to as I was coming down from adderall while writing 2:05:56.000 --> 2:05:59.160 the second half of this episode, as well as these 2:05:59.280 --> 2:06:14.280 products and sponsors. Okay, back to the Grind. Most convention 2:06:14.400 --> 2:06:18.120 activities took place in the Piser Forum, which it took 2:06:18.160 --> 2:06:21.560 about four days to learn how to pronounce. This venue 2:06:21.600 --> 2:06:24.880 is usually home to the NBA team, the Milwaukee Bucks, 2:06:25.480 --> 2:06:27.080 and this is where I would do most of my 2:06:27.160 --> 2:06:30.240 Grinder cruising so I could see other profiles within the 2:06:30.320 --> 2:06:33.800 radius of the convention area. Every time I walked into 2:06:33.800 --> 2:06:36.160 the Pfiser Forum, which was multiple times a day for 2:06:36.200 --> 2:06:38.520 four days in a row, I would find a little 2:06:38.560 --> 2:06:40.800 corner or a place to sit and discreetly boot up 2:06:40.800 --> 2:06:43.400 Grinder and refresh my feed to see what profiles were 2:06:43.400 --> 2:06:47.480 in my proximity. Now, if you're unfamiliar with Grinder, one 2:06:47.480 --> 2:06:53.200 of its more terrifying features is the proximity detector telling 2:06:53.240 --> 2:06:56.240 you what users are near you, whether that be five 2:06:56.320 --> 2:06:59.880 miles away or five feet away. Every night, when I 2:06:59.920 --> 2:07:03.200 got back to the hotel after recording with Robert and Sophie, 2:07:03.400 --> 2:07:05.560 I would once again check a Grinder to see if 2:07:05.600 --> 2:07:08.400 any unlucky delegates were put up in the hotels by 2:07:08.400 --> 2:07:11.360 the airport. The hotel we were staying at was also 2:07:11.440 --> 2:07:15.160 home to the Idaho and North Dakota delegates, and though 2:07:15.200 --> 2:07:17.960 I don't believe anyone from our hotel was on Grinder, 2:07:18.200 --> 2:07:22.000 save for maybe an anonymous profile or two, there definitely 2:07:22.040 --> 2:07:25.480 were RNC attendees at some of the nearby hotels roughly 2:07:25.560 --> 2:07:29.520 fifteen hundred feet away from my bed. The Grinder proximity 2:07:29.560 --> 2:07:32.680 detector was quite useful to me and locating profiles active 2:07:32.720 --> 2:07:35.080 around the footprint of the R and C, as well 2:07:35.120 --> 2:07:38.000 as when sorting through all my messages back home to 2:07:38.080 --> 2:07:40.760 confirm who attended the rn C from out of state. 2:07:41.280 --> 2:07:44.400 Because Milwaukee is about six hundred and fifty miles away 2:07:44.400 --> 2:07:48.280 from Atlanta, if someone's distance marker was substantially different from that, 2:07:48.360 --> 2:07:50.360 I could assume that they were in Milwaukee for the 2:07:50.480 --> 2:07:52.280 R and C from out of state. Even if I 2:07:52.320 --> 2:07:56.040 wasn't able to confirm through any brief text exchange. I've 2:07:56.080 --> 2:07:58.400 also done my best to follow up with certain profiles 2:07:58.520 --> 2:08:02.320 to rule out possibilities of secondary traveling or other random 2:08:02.320 --> 2:08:05.440 reasons for why the distance markers might not line up exactly. 2:08:05.720 --> 2:08:09.240 And I think I have it narrowed down pretty well. Okay, 2:08:09.320 --> 2:08:11.640 you've been very patient, and now I think it's time 2:08:11.880 --> 2:08:15.680 to read through the highlights from my grinder in box. 2:08:16.120 --> 2:08:18.320 And I gotta say I think I started off pretty strong. 2:08:18.680 --> 2:08:21.960 While attending the RNC kickoff party the night before the 2:08:21.960 --> 2:08:24.760 convention officially started, I got one of the very first 2:08:24.800 --> 2:08:28.160 messages I received from a twenty one year old Republican 2:08:28.240 --> 2:08:30.839 with the profile picture that's just a close up picture 2:08:31.360 --> 2:08:34.600 of a dark suit with a dark blue shirt and 2:08:34.720 --> 2:08:38.600 magenta tie, already horrendous vibes. He asked me if I 2:08:38.640 --> 2:08:42.600 was quote unquote with the GOP and I said I 2:08:42.640 --> 2:08:45.440 was attending with friends, and then I got no further response. 2:08:45.960 --> 2:08:48.640 I saw this guy online throughout the convention, and then 2:08:48.880 --> 2:08:51.800 after the convention was over, he moved like three hundred 2:08:51.840 --> 2:08:54.200 miles away, so I'm pretty sure he was there for 2:08:54.320 --> 2:08:57.919 the RNC. I got a message from someone who identified 2:08:57.960 --> 2:09:01.600 himself as a local conservative of quote but not a 2:09:01.640 --> 2:09:05.600 hardcore Republican unquote, and he was excited the convention was 2:09:05.680 --> 2:09:09.000 in town, hopeful that he would quote meet my future 2:09:09.160 --> 2:09:14.440 husband unquote. The first chaser I encountered with the bio 2:09:14.840 --> 2:09:17.880 looking for some lady dick to feel in my ass, 2:09:18.600 --> 2:09:22.280 saw through my CIS gender disguise and messaged me cock 2:09:22.680 --> 2:09:26.080 question mark. I got one other message from a chaser 2:09:26.320 --> 2:09:28.760 who was pretending to be Tea for Tea, who asked 2:09:28.800 --> 2:09:31.920 me if I was in town for Kitsu Khan, an 2:09:31.960 --> 2:09:35.240 anime convention in Green Bay. A nice local messaged me, 2:09:35.360 --> 2:09:39.280 quote hope you're finding what you're looking for, smiley face, 2:09:39.440 --> 2:09:41.960 which was very nice and just kind of amusing if 2:09:42.000 --> 2:09:44.320 you consider that he thought I was just a gay 2:09:44.360 --> 2:09:48.840 Republican looking for some other gay Republican. Another local with 2:09:48.920 --> 2:09:53.480 the name Older for Young sent me the message quote boomer, 2:09:53.480 --> 2:09:56.600 who will talk politics with you or we can just fuck. 2:09:57.920 --> 2:10:01.680 I asked him if the quote unquot talk politics pickup 2:10:01.720 --> 2:10:05.879 line works very often, and he replied quote less often 2:10:05.960 --> 2:10:10.480 than I would hope for on here zero unquote. He 2:10:10.600 --> 2:10:13.920 mentioned that he had noticed some convention attendees on the app, 2:10:14.000 --> 2:10:17.960 telling me that they have infiltrated grinder. He then asked 2:10:17.960 --> 2:10:19.800 me what exact hotel I was staying at, So that 2:10:19.880 --> 2:10:22.880 was the end of that conversation. A minority of the 2:10:22.920 --> 2:10:27.360 Milwaukee locals who messaged me identified themselves as conservatives and 2:10:27.440 --> 2:10:30.960 were largely excited that the RNC was in town. They 2:10:31.080 --> 2:10:34.120 vicariously questioned me about how the convention was going, as 2:10:34.160 --> 2:10:38.320 most were disappointed that they themselves cannot attend. One such fellow, 2:10:38.360 --> 2:10:43.160 who described Trump's first RNC entrance as electric and a 2:10:43.280 --> 2:10:47.000 very emotional moment for him and the entire crowd unquote, 2:10:47.640 --> 2:10:50.120 would have liked to attend, but he was busy working 2:10:50.120 --> 2:10:54.200 at the hospital because they needed quote extra staffing just 2:10:54.400 --> 2:10:59.560 in case unquote. Now, the worst profile picture I found 2:11:00.200 --> 2:11:02.720 was an older guy wearing a baseball camp and one 2:11:02.760 --> 2:11:06.120 of those half faced skull masks like Adam Offfen used 2:11:06.120 --> 2:11:08.920 to wear. He said he was from Florida and claimed 2:11:08.920 --> 2:11:11.600 to be in town not for the RNC but to 2:11:11.720 --> 2:11:15.920 visit family, and mentioned that Vance had completely sold out 2:11:15.960 --> 2:11:20.120 his morals for the VP spot. This guy's politics were impenetrable. 2:11:20.240 --> 2:11:24.240 Maybe this was just like your average Florida independent, very 2:11:24.280 --> 2:11:28.640 baffling fella. A younger guy messaged me asking you're a 2:11:28.720 --> 2:11:31.960 Republican and I said not really, putting it lightly, and 2:11:32.000 --> 2:11:34.160 he never got back to me. I did find a 2:11:34.360 --> 2:11:36.760 thirty one year old chaser named Greg who I do 2:11:36.800 --> 2:11:40.040 believe was attending the convention and his bio read quote 2:11:40.320 --> 2:11:46.600 anon come drain Me trans CD as crossdresser sissy fem 2:11:46.960 --> 2:11:50.080 to the front of the line. I asked, you like 2:11:50.200 --> 2:11:54.560 trans and he responded yes. We had no further conversation. 2:11:55.520 --> 2:11:57.280 I did talk with two other people who happened to 2:11:57.320 --> 2:11:59.840 be covering the convention, including one guy who thought I 2:11:59.880 --> 2:12:03.000 was with CNN because the Grinder proximity sensor put me 2:12:03.080 --> 2:12:06.280 near the CNN area when I was actually using Grinder 2:12:06.320 --> 2:12:10.800 at the Heritage Foundation party. And lastly, really the only 2:12:10.920 --> 2:12:14.520 guy I saw who openly claims to be attending the 2:12:14.680 --> 2:12:17.960 RNC in his public bio was a thirty two year 2:12:17.960 --> 2:12:22.040 old from Shreveport, Louisiana with the user name suck me 2:12:22.120 --> 2:12:27.440 Off one Word. He described the convention as exhausting but 2:12:27.600 --> 2:12:31.120 awesome and told me he was quote proud to support 2:12:31.160 --> 2:12:35.360 President Trump unquote and called Trump's speech on the final 2:12:35.440 --> 2:12:39.880 day amazing. A lot of the RNC speakers, including Trump, 2:12:39.960 --> 2:12:42.680 talked about Corey Competour, the man who was killed at 2:12:42.680 --> 2:12:47.320 the Trump rally during the attempted assassination. So after mister 2:12:47.480 --> 2:12:50.680 sucked me off talked about how awesome Trump's speech was, 2:12:51.160 --> 2:12:55.520 I just replied to him, poor Corey, and he messaged 2:12:55.560 --> 2:12:59.080 me back Corey Who, and that he told me what 2:12:59.120 --> 2:13:02.760 exact hotel he was today. Now, part of the danger 2:13:02.960 --> 2:13:05.720 of trying to use Grinder directly in the middle of 2:13:05.760 --> 2:13:09.800 the RNC, even discreetly, is that even if I'm hunched 2:13:09.840 --> 2:13:12.680 over on my phone, there is a non zero chance 2:13:12.680 --> 2:13:15.280 that some passer by or persons sitting right above me 2:13:15.800 --> 2:13:18.960 might catch a glimpse of an unsolicited dickpic that fills 2:13:19.000 --> 2:13:21.200 my phone screen as I try to check my messages. 2:13:21.960 --> 2:13:24.240 And this is simply a non negotiable part of the 2:13:24.280 --> 2:13:30.000 Grinder experience. Whatever you do, grainy, unflattering, bizarrely angled photos 2:13:30.080 --> 2:13:33.120 of some balding, forty three year old married man will 2:13:33.160 --> 2:13:37.080 appear in your inbox. Ordinarily, I would check the profile 2:13:37.120 --> 2:13:39.520 first to see who might be sending me a photo 2:13:39.920 --> 2:13:43.240 to weed out the undesirable prospects before even considering to 2:13:43.280 --> 2:13:47.280 open up a DM. Unfortunately, multiple factors prevented me from 2:13:47.280 --> 2:13:49.640 doing this. For one, this was research, so I needed 2:13:49.640 --> 2:13:53.000 to collect the most amount of data possible. But moreover, 2:13:53.360 --> 2:13:56.480 even if I still wanted to vet for applicable profiles 2:13:56.480 --> 2:14:00.360 in my dms, this was impossible without opening up to 2:14:00.360 --> 2:14:03.520 each DM individually and clicking through to their profile from 2:14:03.560 --> 2:14:06.120 the chat log. Due to one of the many glitches 2:14:06.200 --> 2:14:10.680 I experienced using Grinder at the RNC, about halfway through 2:14:10.720 --> 2:14:13.800 the week, the app started crashing pretty frequently. But the 2:14:13.800 --> 2:14:15.600 main glitch I had to deal with, which has since 2:14:15.640 --> 2:14:19.320 been fixed, is that I could not access anyone's profile 2:14:19.400 --> 2:14:21.920 from the DM's page. I had to click into each 2:14:22.080 --> 2:14:26.040 individual chat log to open up a user profile, which 2:14:26.080 --> 2:14:28.800 meant I had to look at a lot more unsolicited 2:14:28.840 --> 2:14:32.480 Dick pics before even being able to check anyone's profile. 2:14:33.000 --> 2:14:36.240 So there I was watching Ted Cruise's speech, sitting underneath 2:14:36.280 --> 2:14:39.640 about fifty Republicans and right next to both of my bosses, 2:14:40.000 --> 2:14:43.160 scrolling through an endless stream of dick pics to see 2:14:43.200 --> 2:14:45.080 who was local and who was here for the rn C, 2:14:45.800 --> 2:14:50.240 hoping that whatever Republican voter from Alabama wasn't looking over 2:14:50.320 --> 2:14:54.920 my shoulder at the plethora of dimly lit hog But 2:14:55.120 --> 2:14:57.600 I was far from the only one reporting issues with 2:14:57.640 --> 2:15:01.200 the app during the rn C around mis day. On Tuesday, 2:15:01.280 --> 2:15:03.920 the second day of the convention, over one thousand users 2:15:03.960 --> 2:15:07.000 reported a Grinder outage in the Milwaukee area on the 2:15:07.040 --> 2:15:10.920 website down Detector. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel wrote on the 2:15:10.960 --> 2:15:13.800 final day of the r and C that quote reports 2:15:13.800 --> 2:15:16.480 that the Grinder app crashing increased by more than ninety 2:15:16.520 --> 2:15:20.480 percent in the past forty eight hours across the country unquote. 2:15:20.520 --> 2:15:23.720 The down detector heat map showed Grinder outages in Chicago, 2:15:23.840 --> 2:15:26.680 Los Angeles, and New York, as well as a hot 2:15:26.680 --> 2:15:29.919 spot of outages in Milwaukee near the end of the convention, 2:15:30.720 --> 2:15:35.000 indicating users were experiencing issues with the app, possibly due 2:15:35.040 --> 2:15:38.800 to an increase in activity, and you will hear more 2:15:38.840 --> 2:15:42.760 about that activity after this ad break. This episode of 2:15:42.800 --> 2:15:44.680 It Could Happen Here is brought to you in part 2:15:44.760 --> 2:15:49.840 by the Challenger's soundtrack remix by Boys Noise, which I 2:15:49.880 --> 2:15:52.879 was listening to as I wrote most of this episode 2:15:53.000 --> 2:15:56.200 while on the plane back to Atlanta. This episode is 2:15:56.200 --> 2:16:09.080 also brought to you by these products and services. We 2:16:09.200 --> 2:16:12.640 once again returned to the grind. We got to keep 2:16:12.680 --> 2:16:15.160 on grinding. We're almost done, but we got to grind 2:16:15.160 --> 2:16:17.520 a little more. Just one more grind bro I swear 2:16:17.560 --> 2:16:21.120 about addictors. One more grind broachs one more grind. During 2:16:21.160 --> 2:16:24.560 the influx of reports about the Grinder app breaking during 2:16:24.600 --> 2:16:27.440 the RNC, a post from the Twitter account for the 2:16:27.520 --> 2:16:32.080 Halfway Post went extremely viral, bolstering claims of a massive 2:16:32.200 --> 2:16:36.120 increase in activity. Quote breaking, an executive of the gay 2:16:36.160 --> 2:16:40.760 dating app Grinder says, the Republican National Convention is quote 2:16:41.120 --> 2:16:45.640 basically Grinder's super Bowl unquote. This quote from a Grinder 2:16:45.680 --> 2:16:49.080 executive went super viral, prompting discussions all over the Internet 2:16:49.280 --> 2:16:53.039 about five different articles and even disgraced former New York 2:16:53.040 --> 2:16:58.520 Congressman George Santos commented on the phenomenon content warning, gay Republican. 2:16:58.760 --> 2:17:08.520 So executives are calling the RNC convention the Grinder super Bowl. Folks. Look, 2:17:08.959 --> 2:17:14.720 I'm openly gay, no qualms about it. Proud conservative Republican. 2:17:15.040 --> 2:17:17.960 I met my husband on Grinder and we've been together 2:17:18.160 --> 2:17:21.000 for six years going on seven, married. 2:17:20.720 --> 2:17:23.240 For almost three. Let me tell you something. 2:17:24.040 --> 2:17:27.959 Just come out the closet, boys, come on, it's fun. 2:17:28.160 --> 2:17:28.760 You can be. 2:17:28.879 --> 2:17:33.360 Gay and conservative, but look, Grinder's already out of you anyway. 2:17:33.400 --> 2:17:35.640 Based on the hits and guess who's in town. It's 2:17:35.680 --> 2:17:36.959 all you conservatives. 2:17:37.080 --> 2:17:37.360 Bye. 2:17:39.120 --> 2:17:41.960 Now, I certainly did observe a lot of blank or 2:17:42.000 --> 2:17:45.320 anonymous profiles, at least more than I'm used to. I 2:17:45.360 --> 2:17:49.200 also received messages containing variations of hay sexy from at 2:17:49.280 --> 2:17:52.840 least five accounts that have since been deactivated. And this 2:17:52.959 --> 2:17:55.480 does line up with a report from a Milwaukee area 2:17:55.520 --> 2:17:58.560 Grinder user who spoke with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel saying 2:17:58.600 --> 2:18:02.080 that he noticed a major bump in anonymous users. Quote. 2:18:02.360 --> 2:18:04.280 On any given day, you'll go on there and see 2:18:04.320 --> 2:18:07.240 a headless torso or a blank profile, said the source, 2:18:07.240 --> 2:18:09.800 who did not want to be named. The Grinder user said, 2:18:09.800 --> 2:18:12.520 on a normal day, you'll encounter maybe ten users with 2:18:12.600 --> 2:18:15.600 no public profile. But Thursday, when he checked the app, 2:18:15.879 --> 2:18:21.039 he said he stopped counting at fifty blank profile photos unquote. Now, 2:18:21.080 --> 2:18:23.959 we don't have any official data yet on Grinder usage 2:18:24.120 --> 2:18:26.600 near the twenty twenty four rn C, only the down 2:18:26.640 --> 2:18:30.360 detector reports which our users submitted. But we do at 2:18:30.440 --> 2:18:35.039 least have data from the last in person convention in Cleveland, Ohio, 2:18:35.120 --> 2:18:38.320 all the way back in twenty sixteen. A Vice article 2:18:38.360 --> 2:18:41.720 by Candice Brian spoke with sources from Grinder and wrote 2:18:41.760 --> 2:18:44.760 that quote, Grinder usage near the Quick and Loans Arena 2:18:45.000 --> 2:18:47.600 showed a sixty six percent increase during the r and C. 2:18:48.200 --> 2:18:52.400 Other active destinations including Times Square, Capitol Hill, Disneyland, South Beach, 2:18:52.440 --> 2:18:58.000 and Trump Tower showed no comparable increase in active users. Unquote. 2:18:58.160 --> 2:19:01.600 Many of the local twinks and trains certainly were concerned 2:19:01.640 --> 2:19:05.880 about possible RNC freaks hiding on the app. People would 2:19:05.920 --> 2:19:08.480 often first ask me if I was a Republican or 2:19:08.560 --> 2:19:10.720 why I was in town before trying to hit on me. 2:19:11.360 --> 2:19:14.440 One such twink told me, quote, I would be surprised 2:19:14.440 --> 2:19:16.600 if you were a delegate or something, but I had 2:19:16.600 --> 2:19:20.800 to check. As the week progressed, more locals told me 2:19:20.840 --> 2:19:23.040 that they had found a handful of out and proud 2:19:23.040 --> 2:19:27.840 patriots online, but really not many. In fact, multiple Milwaukee 2:19:27.920 --> 2:19:30.920 locals I chatted with on Grinder did claim to notice 2:19:30.920 --> 2:19:35.240 an uptick in users, but mostly recognizable local users who 2:19:35.280 --> 2:19:38.080 were online for the same reason I was, to see 2:19:38.080 --> 2:19:42.080 if there was an influx of closet Republicans. Someone told me, quote, 2:19:42.400 --> 2:19:45.520 for the record, it's like three times busier here than normal. 2:19:46.000 --> 2:19:48.360 Everyone is out to see what the Republicans are up 2:19:48.400 --> 2:19:51.600 to and the chasers have come out of the woodwork unquote. 2:19:52.320 --> 2:19:55.480 Far from being the app's super Bowl. According to WECE, 2:19:55.720 --> 2:19:59.440 the twenty sixteen rnc's sixty six percent bump in activity 2:19:59.800 --> 2:20:02.959 is less than one half of the increase in Grinder 2:20:03.000 --> 2:20:06.879 activity that was seen at the last in person DNC, 2:20:07.520 --> 2:20:11.160 an event which was also a whole day shorter i'llreage 2:20:11.160 --> 2:20:14.720 from wece. Quote. However, from Sunday to Monday, the week 2:20:14.760 --> 2:20:17.840 of the Democratic National Convention, there was an even higher 2:20:18.160 --> 2:20:21.959 one hundred and forty eight percent increase in activity around 2:20:22.000 --> 2:20:26.600 the Wells Fargo Arena in Philadelphia unquote. It's also worth 2:20:26.640 --> 2:20:29.879 noting that of that sixty six percent increase in activity 2:20:29.920 --> 2:20:32.879 around the twenty sixteen r and C, only about forty 2:20:32.920 --> 2:20:37.600 percent of those users were visiting Cleveland, most were locals. Meanwhile, 2:20:37.680 --> 2:20:40.680 sixty percent of Grinder users active near the DNC in 2:20:40.720 --> 2:20:44.920 Philadelphia were visiting the city. Oh, and that quote from 2:20:44.920 --> 2:20:49.240 a Grinder executive calling the RNC Grinder's super Bowl, as 2:20:49.280 --> 2:20:52.199 well as George Sandos's other claim about Grinder purposely outing 2:20:52.200 --> 2:20:57.640 gay conservatives. Both of those claims originate from Twitter satire accounts. 2:20:58.080 --> 2:20:59.800 It is totally made up, pure fiction. 2:21:00.440 --> 2:21:00.960 It's fiction. 2:21:01.480 --> 2:21:02.000 It's fiction. 2:21:02.480 --> 2:21:03.160 We made it up. 2:21:03.360 --> 2:21:04.240 We made this one up. 2:21:04.320 --> 2:21:07.080 It's a made up tail, it's a total fabrication. It 2:21:07.240 --> 2:21:07.840 never happened. 2:21:08.760 --> 2:21:12.200 It's an urban legend that never happened. So no, the 2:21:12.320 --> 2:21:16.200 RNC is not grinders a super Bowl. I got messages 2:21:16.240 --> 2:21:19.400 from over one hundred and fifty different people. Over ninety 2:21:19.440 --> 2:21:23.560 percent of the messages I received and profiles visible online 2:21:23.640 --> 2:21:27.560 even while inside the Pfizer forum were from locals completely 2:21:27.680 --> 2:21:31.480 unaffiliated with the RNC, and any boost activity that can 2:21:31.520 --> 2:21:34.280 be attributed to people visiting for the RNC is a 2:21:34.400 --> 2:21:37.959 minuscule drop in the bucket compared to the proverbial orgy 2:21:38.040 --> 2:21:41.600 festival of out of town gay Democrats who travel to 2:21:41.640 --> 2:21:45.439 the DNC, And like, if you think about this logically, 2:21:46.120 --> 2:21:49.240 this shouldn't at all be surprising. The Republican Party has 2:21:49.240 --> 2:21:52.000 spent the past two years screaming about how all drag 2:21:52.080 --> 2:21:55.119 queens are child groomers, and though this was the first 2:21:55.200 --> 2:21:58.200 year the GOP has removed opposition to gay marriage from 2:21:58.240 --> 2:22:02.039 their party platform, they have massively increased their opposition to 2:22:02.200 --> 2:22:05.400 and attacks against trans people and really any display of 2:22:05.440 --> 2:22:08.840 a visible queerness like come on this is the Republican party. 2:22:09.440 --> 2:22:13.680 There's this kind of fucked up cultural conception that homophobic 2:22:13.720 --> 2:22:17.960 politicians must be so because they are secretly gay. And 2:22:18.040 --> 2:22:21.720 while there is the occasional like Lindsey Graham or repressed 2:22:21.879 --> 2:22:26.480 homosexual preacher, this is not the norm and all Republicans 2:22:26.520 --> 2:22:31.160 being secretly gay is not the driving force of legislative homophobia. 2:22:31.600 --> 2:22:35.200 It is an ideological drive, largely in furtherance of hegemonic 2:22:35.280 --> 2:22:38.760 Christian nationalism, and now for people like Elon Musk and more, 2:22:38.800 --> 2:22:43.280 young Republicans of fascistic notion of reproductive futurism built on 2:22:43.320 --> 2:22:48.360 fears that young people white people aren't having enough white babies, 2:22:48.720 --> 2:22:51.800 which they partially attribute to society becoming more accepting of 2:22:51.840 --> 2:22:55.720 gay and trans people, resulting in people having less reproductive 2:22:56.040 --> 2:22:59.280 or heterosexual sex. Never mind the fact that queer and 2:22:59.280 --> 2:23:02.200 trans people are often times can and do have children, 2:23:02.600 --> 2:23:05.480 which still doesn't seem to please these conservatives, as it 2:23:05.480 --> 2:23:08.600 doesn't align with their traditionalist view of the family unit. 2:23:09.320 --> 2:23:12.720 So No Grinder wasn't flooded with closeted Republicans because there 2:23:12.760 --> 2:23:15.360 simply isn't that many closeted Republicans that are going to 2:23:15.400 --> 2:23:18.440 be attending the RNC, and while there may not be 2:23:18.879 --> 2:23:22.520 as many Republicans as I thought there might be, I 2:23:22.560 --> 2:23:25.440 do believe that I have the bump in activity, albeit 2:23:25.520 --> 2:23:29.840 a smaller bump than rumored. Basically figured out based on 2:23:29.920 --> 2:23:32.680 my anecdotal experience and the reports of a handful of 2:23:32.720 --> 2:23:35.680 local Grinder users and journalists I talked with who were 2:23:35.720 --> 2:23:38.960 online during the twenty twenty four rn C, and considering 2:23:38.959 --> 2:23:42.520 the twenty sixteen Grinder data, I can report that merely 2:23:42.560 --> 2:23:47.480 a small minority of activity was due to ordinary RNZ attendees. 2:23:48.120 --> 2:23:51.880 The majority of activity was from locals who either regularly 2:23:51.959 --> 2:23:55.520 used Grinder or were specifically curious about who might be 2:23:55.640 --> 2:24:00.320 online during the RNC. I observed two more groups that 2:24:00.360 --> 2:24:04.760 would contribute to any noticeable increase in activity. Not everyone 2:24:04.760 --> 2:24:08.039 who attends the RNC are guests or delegates. A lot 2:24:08.040 --> 2:24:10.800 of people work at the convention center or work tech, 2:24:11.440 --> 2:24:15.359 and a sizeable chunk of people are like myself researchers, posters, 2:24:15.400 --> 2:24:19.119 or journalists who attend conventions like this for work. And lastly, 2:24:19.600 --> 2:24:23.280 the final group that fills out the bump in Grinder activity, 2:24:23.800 --> 2:24:26.280 one that for some reason didn't really expect to see 2:24:26.320 --> 2:24:31.240 upon arrival, but in retrospect makes total sense. Are cops 2:24:31.879 --> 2:24:34.880 so many cops? There were so many cops online at 2:24:34.879 --> 2:24:38.360 the RNC, just like delegates or reporters. They are coming 2:24:38.440 --> 2:24:41.360 to town from all around the country. There was cops 2:24:41.480 --> 2:24:46.920 or state troopers from Texas, Ohio, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, California, Indiana, 2:24:47.000 --> 2:24:50.160 and many more states, as well as US Capitol Police, 2:24:50.240 --> 2:24:54.400 Secret Service, TSA, DHS, and FBI. They were all in 2:24:54.480 --> 2:24:57.440 town as a part of the security detail. A few 2:24:57.440 --> 2:25:00.000 of the guys that messaged me I can absolutely confirm 2:25:00.000 --> 2:25:02.920 are one hundred percent police or some kind of military police. 2:25:03.560 --> 2:25:06.520 A thirty three year old cop or military guy quote 2:25:06.760 --> 2:25:11.480 looking for sexy bottoms with the tag's jock, military discreete 2:25:11.520 --> 2:25:14.320 and weightlifting, as well as many pictures of him in 2:25:14.360 --> 2:25:16.840 the gym. Said it in his bio that he was 2:25:16.920 --> 2:25:21.879 quote really into slim, skinny toned, and muscular people. He 2:25:21.920 --> 2:25:26.560 messaged me saying, Hey, now, I got a lot of 2:25:27.040 --> 2:25:31.040 haze in my inbox, which is not unusual for Grinder. 2:25:31.560 --> 2:25:34.280 You will probably mostly get hay as a message as 2:25:34.320 --> 2:25:36.160 well as just like, you know, a picture of someone's penis, 2:25:36.360 --> 2:25:38.760 but between a penis and hey, those are probably the 2:25:38.760 --> 2:25:42.119 two most received messages you will get on Grinder. There 2:25:42.160 --> 2:25:46.039 was another guy with a username DL military who said 2:25:46.040 --> 2:25:48.520 in his bio he was working security for the week 2:25:48.800 --> 2:25:52.000 and that Grinder messages had completely broke for him and 2:25:52.040 --> 2:25:56.280 to instead message him on Snapchat. The DL in DL 2:25:56.320 --> 2:25:59.680 military stands for down low. It's a tag that only 2:25:59.760 --> 2:26:03.560 the worst people on Grinder will use, mainly like self 2:26:03.680 --> 2:26:07.400 hating gay men who are closeted, and it's download because 2:26:07.400 --> 2:26:09.800 they don't want to be like publicly seen being gay. 2:26:09.959 --> 2:26:13.199 Just absolutely the worst. We do not fuck with DL, 2:26:13.400 --> 2:26:16.960 both literally and figuratively. There were a bunch of other 2:26:17.200 --> 2:26:21.400 non locals who I would describe as cop types. I 2:26:21.440 --> 2:26:24.440 can't one hundred percent say for sure that they are cops, 2:26:24.840 --> 2:26:28.240 but they have like the look, you know, like the look, 2:26:28.320 --> 2:26:30.720 the cop look. I don't know. They could also be 2:26:30.760 --> 2:26:33.960 like a bodyguard or work in private security. But one 2:26:34.000 --> 2:26:38.080 of these cop looking guys message to me asking if 2:26:38.080 --> 2:26:40.280 I was a trans guy, which I always love to see. 2:26:40.280 --> 2:26:43.000 It means I'm doing gender very well. And a few 2:26:43.000 --> 2:26:47.400 other cop types sent relatively boring messages. So yeah, a 2:26:47.400 --> 2:26:50.200 lot of cops, which is not completely surprising considering the 2:26:50.240 --> 2:26:52.960 fact that basically half the cops in the country were 2:26:53.120 --> 2:26:56.800 at the Republican National Convention in some form or another. 2:26:57.800 --> 2:27:00.840 A few final notes, Now, this really make up a 2:27:00.879 --> 2:27:05.120 sizable chunk of the Grinder population. But after saying I 2:27:05.200 --> 2:27:08.199 was just covering the RNC, a couple people on Grinder, 2:27:08.360 --> 2:27:11.760 just completely unprompted, told me that they were attending the 2:27:11.800 --> 2:27:14.879 protests against the RNC. Please do not do this. That's 2:27:14.920 --> 2:27:18.440 a horrible idea for multiple reasons. You gotta stop talking 2:27:18.440 --> 2:27:22.000 about your political activities on dating apps, especially Grinder, especially 2:27:22.040 --> 2:27:28.119 at the RNC. Horrible idea. Do not do this. And 2:27:28.160 --> 2:27:33.039 despite my lazy attempt at a young Republican disguised online profile, 2:27:33.520 --> 2:27:35.680 a few too many people did recognize me from Twitter 2:27:35.760 --> 2:27:37.640 or the pod, but they were very nice. They gave 2:27:37.680 --> 2:27:39.880 me some recommendations for what gay bars to check out 2:27:39.920 --> 2:27:43.040 after conventioned hours, and one person told me this interesting 2:27:43.080 --> 2:27:46.119 anecdote that I'd like to share. Quote, I don't think 2:27:46.160 --> 2:27:48.760 Trump is going to win. I can missed for Hillary 2:27:48.760 --> 2:27:52.080 in twenty sixteen, and at least here it doesn't feel 2:27:52.120 --> 2:27:55.320 the same unquote. I thought that was a little interesting 2:27:55.320 --> 2:27:58.520 tibit that I received at probably round three am on Grinder, 2:27:58.920 --> 2:28:02.080 So there you go. Well, anyway, that was my RNC 2:28:02.360 --> 2:28:05.880 grinder experience. I'm sorry to report it is not the 2:28:05.920 --> 2:28:09.240 hotbed of closeted Republicans that we mean it to be. 2:28:09.720 --> 2:28:13.400 It's mostly local gaze, a few reporters and a few 2:28:13.440 --> 2:28:16.800 more cops. I do not think I'll be reporting on 2:28:17.000 --> 2:28:20.959 the DNC grinder, but I am curious to see if 2:28:21.000 --> 2:28:25.280 there is a sizable increase in activity as compared to 2:28:25.720 --> 2:28:28.760 the RNC Grinder, So I guess I will maybe posted 2:28:28.800 --> 2:28:31.000 by that on Twitter at Hungry bow Tie if you 2:28:31.000 --> 2:28:34.160 want updates on that. Anyway, stay safe out there. Be 2:28:34.200 --> 2:28:37.400 careful if you're ever on grinder. Please especially don't tell 2:28:37.720 --> 2:28:41.320 someone covering the RNC that you're attending any protests. But 2:28:41.400 --> 2:28:43.480 in general, be careful on these types of dating apps 2:28:43.720 --> 2:28:48.960 and I will see you on the other side. Message 2:28:49.000 --> 2:28:54.800 from Quickie Grinder said you were super close yesterday, wasn't stocking? 2:28:54.840 --> 2:28:59.880 I promise? Message from birthday present emoji I almost thought 2:28:59.920 --> 2:29:04.440 you were Josh Thomas. Message from anonymous wait are you 2:29:04.600 --> 2:29:08.000 pro or anti Republican? I'm not gonna lie. I mainly 2:29:08.000 --> 2:29:09.959 asked your politics because I thought you were cute, but 2:29:10.000 --> 2:29:13.119 I didn't want to hit on a Trumper message from 2:29:13.160 --> 2:29:18.279 older for young aren't all the delegates propositioning you? You're cute? 2:29:19.000 --> 2:29:24.160 Message from anonymous? Why establish a detlitarian state if I 2:29:24.240 --> 2:29:28.240 can't breed It's a dictator message from suck me off? 2:29:29.200 --> 2:29:30.360 I'm down for anything. 2:29:31.080 --> 2:29:31.520 Lol. 2:29:31.680 --> 2:29:33.640 Are you supporting Trump? Ha? Ha? 2:29:51.520 --> 2:29:54.720 Cool media. 2:29:54.920 --> 2:29:57.000 Welcome to you can Happen Hear a podcast trying to 2:29:57.000 --> 2:29:59.240 figure out why some of the most powerful people in 2:29:59.240 --> 2:30:01.800 the world to everyone to think that they're gamers. It 2:30:01.879 --> 2:30:03.800 is it is your host me along with me as 2:30:03.840 --> 2:30:04.600 Garrison Davis. 2:30:05.000 --> 2:30:08.240 I I've I've played a video game before. I'm not 2:30:08.360 --> 2:30:10.119 very powerful, but I I. 2:30:10.160 --> 2:30:12.760 Too, have played many several video games. 2:30:13.040 --> 2:30:15.720 See I wouldn't. I wouldn't say several. I've I've played 2:30:15.760 --> 2:30:19.600 like a few many. I have played too many, simply 2:30:19.640 --> 2:30:24.720 too many video games. So okay, this is this. 2:30:24.600 --> 2:30:26.800 Is in some ways kind of a lighter episode, because 2:30:26.879 --> 2:30:28.840 Jesus fucking Christ, everything's really depressing. 2:30:29.120 --> 2:30:30.279 Is something going on out there. 2:30:30.600 --> 2:30:32.240 It's all really bad, and one of the people who's 2:30:32.280 --> 2:30:35.520 been making everything really really bad is Elon Musk, who 2:30:36.200 --> 2:30:39.280 has somehow managed to like piss off the gamers, the 2:30:39.320 --> 2:30:43.080 PayPal guy, the PayPal guy, the owner of x. 2:30:43.600 --> 2:30:46.520 I've I've been I've been locked in my uh in 2:30:46.600 --> 2:30:49.200 my gamer cave for the past like five months. I've 2:30:49.240 --> 2:30:52.400 not left. I'm just hearing about this now. Yeah you might. 2:30:52.440 --> 2:30:52.760 You might. 2:30:52.800 --> 2:30:54.560 You might know of him as the guy who paid 2:30:54.600 --> 2:30:56.680 another guy to play Path of Exile two for him. 2:30:56.720 --> 2:30:58.720 We will get to that. See, I don't play those games. 2:30:58.720 --> 2:31:04.080 Those games are gay. I only play Nintendo Mecca games 2:31:04.160 --> 2:31:10.120 and hell Divers too, like a loser's that's reasonable, that's reasonable. 2:31:10.160 --> 2:31:12.560 Those are those are? Those are fine games. Oh and Sonic? 2:31:12.680 --> 2:31:21.039 Oh god, okay, pushing aside the subject to Sonic. So okay, 2:31:21.160 --> 2:31:23.120 I want to take a look a bit about why 2:31:23.160 --> 2:31:26.560 this sort of matters and why all of these fucking 2:31:26.600 --> 2:31:29.760 really rich assholes are sort of trying to pretend to 2:31:29.800 --> 2:31:30.360 be gamers. 2:31:31.240 --> 2:31:33.440 And I think the place to start here is with 2:31:33.800 --> 2:31:34.679 the fact. 2:31:34.480 --> 2:31:37.360 That gaming is in one hundred and eighty four point 2:31:37.440 --> 2:31:41.039 three billion dollar industry. Todd Harris, who is an extremely 2:31:41.080 --> 2:31:43.879 annoying guy but is also right, points out that this 2:31:43.959 --> 2:31:47.280 is more money than TV, movies and music combined. So 2:31:47.400 --> 2:31:50.560 this is the largest entertainment market in the world by 2:31:51.480 --> 2:31:53.560 such an astounding margin in terms of. 2:31:53.560 --> 2:31:54.640 Just dollar value. 2:31:54.720 --> 2:31:58.800 Right, something like three billion people play video games. It's 2:31:59.040 --> 2:32:01.520 mostly mobile game which makes the story I'm about to 2:32:01.560 --> 2:32:04.959 tell very weird because the actual people who play these 2:32:05.000 --> 2:32:08.160 games again, it's it's a lot of mobile games, and 2:32:08.800 --> 2:32:11.720 it's also mostly people who are women and non white. 2:32:12.320 --> 2:32:14.840 And yet, however, Comma, when people think about like the 2:32:14.959 --> 2:32:18.680 gamer TM, you are not thinking about. 2:32:18.480 --> 2:32:20.720 That, yeah, like as a political class. 2:32:21.480 --> 2:32:24.520 Yeah yeah, you know, like when people say the word gamer, yeah, 2:32:24.560 --> 2:32:27.800 you're thinking of a bunch of weird in cell right 2:32:27.840 --> 2:32:34.440 wing dipshits who are white and suckass. And this is 2:32:34.600 --> 2:32:36.760 in large part because gamer Gate was sort of the first, 2:32:36.800 --> 2:32:40.120 like truly effective political mobilization of like the gamer as 2:32:40.160 --> 2:32:42.160 a political identity. And obviously this is you know, this 2:32:42.240 --> 2:32:43.120 is a fascist movement. 2:32:44.040 --> 2:32:44.240 Now. 2:32:44.320 --> 2:32:45.880 Part of the reason this works, and we're gonna be 2:32:45.879 --> 2:32:48.440 getting more into why this sort of works later, but 2:32:48.520 --> 2:32:50.040 part of the reason this works is that this is 2:32:50.080 --> 2:32:53.240 an extremely large group of people because it's new, no 2:32:53.280 --> 2:32:55.520 one has sort of defined it as a political identity before, 2:32:55.560 --> 2:32:58.600 and it's also filled with people who are extremely insecure 2:32:59.320 --> 2:33:01.080 about their ident He is a gamer because this is 2:33:01.120 --> 2:33:04.879 a relatively new medium, which is why everyone fucking either 2:33:04.920 --> 2:33:08.520 wants their games to be like treated like movies or 2:33:08.560 --> 2:33:12.360 some shit, or they want it to be sports because 2:33:12.360 --> 2:33:15.200 those are sort of cultural things with enormous amounts of money, 2:33:15.200 --> 2:33:17.320 and then that are taken like quote unquote more seriously. 2:33:17.760 --> 2:33:18.320 Yeah. 2:33:18.480 --> 2:33:21.760 Yeah, And so the effect of this is that the 2:33:21.800 --> 2:33:24.959 cultural affect of being a gamer is extremely important to 2:33:25.000 --> 2:33:28.480 these people. And this is true actually really both on 2:33:28.520 --> 2:33:30.400 the left as much as it is on their right. 2:33:30.440 --> 2:33:32.920 There are a lot of like sort of political figures. 2:33:33.400 --> 2:33:36.400 I don't know, you're sort of like online people who 2:33:36.800 --> 2:33:39.840 come out of gaming, like like h Bomber guy, I 2:33:39.879 --> 2:33:43.160 guess an example, like Hassan. To some extent, there's just 2:33:43.200 --> 2:33:46.080 like a lot of people who are like gamers and 2:33:46.080 --> 2:33:49.040 then by sort of like become political. But on the 2:33:49.080 --> 2:33:51.920 other hand, gaming has always been like a not always 2:33:52.000 --> 2:33:57.040 but has traditionally been an extremely right wing space. Oh god, Garrison, 2:33:57.280 --> 2:33:59.280 I feel like you will actually appreciate how fucking shit 2:33:59.360 --> 2:34:01.080 this is. Have I told you the story about Kabob 2:34:01.120 --> 2:34:04.560 the German No, oh boy? Okay, So back in the 2:34:04.600 --> 2:34:07.119 dawn of Time, I played a lot of Hearthstone as 2:34:07.160 --> 2:34:09.959 a kid, and I was like, I wasn't like good. 2:34:09.959 --> 2:34:12.320 Is that like a resource management type game for like 2:34:12.360 --> 2:34:13.199 gay autistic people. 2:34:13.600 --> 2:34:16.480 No, this is this is the World of Warcraft card game. 2:34:16.879 --> 2:34:21.119 Okay, that's that's even more embarrassing. Yeah, really bad, really bad. 2:34:21.160 --> 2:34:23.680 I think I think I peaked at like two K 2:34:23.920 --> 2:34:27.840 Legend North America, which like technically speaking is like top 2:34:27.959 --> 2:34:31.040 like half a percent of players in the world's digital 2:34:31.160 --> 2:34:35.520 collectible card video game. Come on, oh yeah, yeah, but 2:34:35.600 --> 2:34:38.520 two k legend DNA is like fucking shitter ranks. 2:34:38.560 --> 2:34:39.000 It's bad. 2:34:39.080 --> 2:34:41.480 I was never like good, good at it. I was 2:34:41.560 --> 2:34:45.959 just like, okay, kind of but you know, this is 2:34:46.040 --> 2:34:47.560 like a thing that I did growing up, and something 2:34:47.640 --> 2:34:49.840 I remember is like all of the fucking Heartstone streamers 2:34:49.879 --> 2:34:52.600 and these are like really big streamers would play music 2:34:52.640 --> 2:34:55.680 from this guy they called Kobob the German and it 2:34:55.760 --> 2:34:59.760 turns out that his actual name was removed Kobob because 2:34:59.760 --> 2:35:01.920 he was a fucking German neo Nazi. 2:35:02.600 --> 2:35:05.959 Well many such cases, yeah. 2:35:05.560 --> 2:35:07.680 For people who like are not aware of of like 2:35:08.680 --> 2:35:11.760 mid twenty tens German fascism. Remove Kabob is like a 2:35:12.040 --> 2:35:14.240 slogan calling for the ethnic cleansing and genocide of. 2:35:14.200 --> 2:35:15.359 Turkish people in Germany. 2:35:16.240 --> 2:35:18.760 So great stuff, great stuff, this is just was just 2:35:18.760 --> 2:35:20.640 sort of like the water you were swimming in if 2:35:20.680 --> 2:35:24.960 you were a gamer in like the twenty tens. Now, 2:35:26.040 --> 2:35:29.480 this goes some way to explaining something that I noticed 2:35:30.200 --> 2:35:35.600 kind of recently, which is the absolutely bizarre obsession these 2:35:35.640 --> 2:35:38.400 tech CEOs like who want to be thought of as gamers. 2:35:38.879 --> 2:35:40.440 And so the two examples we're gonna look at are 2:35:40.480 --> 2:35:42.480 Sam bank and Freed's and this is this is really 2:35:42.480 --> 2:35:44.400 technically on both sides of the political spectrum. Right, We're 2:35:44.400 --> 2:35:46.240 gonna look at Sam Banker Freed, and we're gonna look 2:35:46.320 --> 2:35:50.320 at Elon musk are new Overlord. 2:35:50.440 --> 2:35:50.960 I guess. 2:35:52.120 --> 2:35:54.640 So we're gonna start with Sam Bankon Freed, and you know, 2:35:54.879 --> 2:35:57.760 as we go through what's happening here, we're gonna sort 2:35:57.760 --> 2:36:00.520 of unravel why it's so important to them to be 2:36:00.560 --> 2:36:03.280 seen as gamers. And I guess it is important to 2:36:03.280 --> 2:36:06.240 note like Sam Bankman Fried like is I guess like 2:36:06.320 --> 2:36:08.160 he is a gamer in the sense that like he's 2:36:08.160 --> 2:36:10.800 like addicted to video games effectively and just plays them 2:36:10.920 --> 2:36:12.400 fucking literally constantly. 2:36:12.680 --> 2:36:14.720 Yeah, he looks the part too. No offense. 2:36:15.000 --> 2:36:16.879 Yeah, yeah, before before he was put in prison for 2:36:16.879 --> 2:36:18.760 twenty five years for fraud. 2:36:18.920 --> 2:36:22.080 Well, probably not anymore. He's probably gonna get part of God. 2:36:22.440 --> 2:36:25.200 Maybe we'll see, we'll see. I don't know. Crypto vote, 2:36:25.200 --> 2:36:28.800 it's the most valuable voting block. Now all young Americans 2:36:28.840 --> 2:36:31.119 are too poor to open bank accounts, so they put 2:36:31.120 --> 2:36:33.480 all their money in crypto. So now they're gonna vote 2:36:33.480 --> 2:36:35.400 for whoever makes line go up. 2:36:35.600 --> 2:36:40.120 I'm gonna become the joker. So okay, then think about 2:36:40.160 --> 2:36:43.320 Sam Megan Frieda. For people who have forgotten who SBF is. 2:36:43.480 --> 2:36:46.160 He is the guy who was the founder of FTX, 2:36:46.200 --> 2:36:48.439 which was like a crypto change that was actually effectively 2:36:48.440 --> 2:36:50.520 a giant scam where he took everyone's money and betted 2:36:50.560 --> 2:36:53.200 on the stock market and lost it. And you know, 2:36:54.160 --> 2:36:56.480 Robert did a behind the bassardes on him. And one 2:36:56.520 --> 2:36:58.520 of the things that happens constantly is he's just like 2:36:58.560 --> 2:37:01.480 always fucking playing video games. He's playing this really dogshit 2:37:01.520 --> 2:37:04.119 game called Story Big Bralgy Meetings. He is a League 2:37:04.120 --> 2:37:07.600 of Legends addict, which is like as as as any 2:37:07.600 --> 2:37:10.080 gamer will know, a person who plays League of Legends 2:37:10.080 --> 2:37:11.960 all the time, like one of the worst categories people 2:37:11.959 --> 2:37:15.240 who's ever existed. And one of the things that that 2:37:15.480 --> 2:37:18.480 SBF did as as a sort of pr thing right, 2:37:18.680 --> 2:37:22.720 was let the author Michael Lewis of the Big shorts, 2:37:23.040 --> 2:37:29.359 We're Gonna get the moneyball in a second, blindside other books. 2:37:29.600 --> 2:37:32.400 Reparatable financial advice books, is what I'm hearing. 2:37:33.879 --> 2:37:36.720 But you know, like a very very powerful, influential and 2:37:37.000 --> 2:37:39.440 wealthy American journalists just let him sort of tag along 2:37:39.600 --> 2:37:44.000 and and Michael Lewis's sort of angle on understanding him. 2:37:44.000 --> 2:37:47.040 But this is something that like ICBF was like, you know, 2:37:47.600 --> 2:37:49.560 was like projecting right in order for this to be 2:37:49.560 --> 2:37:51.520 the image of him was him as like the gamer. 2:37:52.080 --> 2:37:54.560 And this sort of just like baffles Michael Lewis right, 2:37:54.600 --> 2:37:58.959 because he just like doesn't understand someone who just has 2:37:59.000 --> 2:38:01.280 ADHD and plays vide games all the time and doesn't 2:38:01.320 --> 2:38:03.160 give a shit. So you play video games stream meetings 2:38:03.160 --> 2:38:05.120 like no one has ever been like this. I have 2:38:05.200 --> 2:38:08.160 no idea what you mean. I actually don't play video 2:38:08.120 --> 2:38:09.880 games stream meetings because it is too obvious. 2:38:11.760 --> 2:38:14.600 But I play I play video games a once a week. 2:38:15.040 --> 2:38:16.760 That's that's that's kind of my Oh. 2:38:16.640 --> 2:38:18.600 God, this is the one part about Sam bankmon Free 2:38:18.600 --> 2:38:20.480 that's relatable to me. I play so many video games. 2:38:20.560 --> 2:38:23.320 It is my like antidepression strategy basically, like when I 2:38:23.360 --> 2:38:25.960 need to not think for a while, there's just MEO 2:38:26.040 --> 2:38:28.120 playing actually pat the faxtyle too. One of the games 2:38:28.120 --> 2:38:30.119 that we're gonna be fucking talking about today, something. 2:38:29.879 --> 2:38:30.640 That I play a lot of. 2:38:30.720 --> 2:38:34.080 I've done so much fucking gaming, Like God, I used 2:38:34.120 --> 2:38:36.120 to play this game called Smite, which is like a 2:38:36.240 --> 2:38:38.000 it's like a mob but like League of Legends but 2:38:38.040 --> 2:38:40.040 like third person. And I played so much Smite that 2:38:40.040 --> 2:38:42.840 they were pro showing my casual games. When when the 2:38:42.920 --> 2:38:45.200 Zoomer Revolution comes and they execute the gamers and they 2:38:45.200 --> 2:38:47.640 execute b I'm gonna be like, yeah, you know that's reasonable. 2:38:47.879 --> 2:38:49.360 Like I can't argue with that. 2:38:49.440 --> 2:38:53.640 I'll inform the council. I can't our next folks council meeting, 2:38:53.879 --> 2:38:56.080 I'll bring it to the table. 2:38:56.800 --> 2:38:59.080 But you know, so, so what what What what happens 2:38:59.120 --> 2:39:01.040 with this sort of thing is that is that Michael 2:39:01.080 --> 2:39:04.760 Lewis's image of SBF becomes as this gamer who's doing 2:39:04.760 --> 2:39:09.160 these completely incomprehensible things. He's mind must be so unbelievably brilliant. Yeah, totally, 2:39:09.200 --> 2:39:12.080 because he's just like playing fucking video games all the time. 2:39:12.680 --> 2:39:14.720 And and this gets to one of the aspects of 2:39:14.760 --> 2:39:18.359 why these people do this this sort of like pretending 2:39:18.360 --> 2:39:19.840 to be a gamer thing and and like and like 2:39:19.920 --> 2:39:22.760 SBF like is a gamer, right, but like why why 2:39:22.760 --> 2:39:24.320 they make us part of their cultural image, which is 2:39:24.360 --> 2:39:26.680 that a lot of the traditional media people, even though 2:39:26.720 --> 2:39:31.960 gaming is an enormous industry, it's it's extremely profitable and 2:39:32.160 --> 2:39:37.160 is enormously culturally powerful, it doesn't have the same kind 2:39:37.200 --> 2:39:39.600 of critical culture around. It doesn't exist that you would 2:39:39.640 --> 2:39:41.160 see or something like movies or. 2:39:41.160 --> 2:39:45.680 Like respectability in some way, except in like the reversed 2:39:46.160 --> 2:39:50.160 Sam Bankman freedway, where like the schlubbiness is part of 2:39:50.200 --> 2:39:52.880 what makes him like an extent your genius, right, like 2:39:52.879 --> 2:39:55.640 like like that era of like Silicon Valley guy. Yeah, 2:39:55.680 --> 2:39:58.800 that's like he's he's so different, right, Like he's he's 2:39:58.840 --> 2:40:01.080 he's not like put together, and this like shows how 2:40:01.120 --> 2:40:03.720 he's like a new and innovative thinker. So it's like 2:40:03.720 --> 2:40:05.600 it's kind of like a double edged sword in like 2:40:06.040 --> 2:40:07.160 that specific way. 2:40:07.360 --> 2:40:09.600 Yeah, well, this is all a feedback loop, right, because 2:40:09.640 --> 2:40:12.320 like part of it not being respectable is that someone 2:40:12.360 --> 2:40:14.760 like Michael Lewis, right, who was like as establishment of 2:40:14.800 --> 2:40:17.240 a journalist as there's ever been these people don't play 2:40:17.280 --> 2:40:19.440 video games. They're one of the figures people who just 2:40:19.440 --> 2:40:22.480 like don't game. Are these like traditional mainstream sort of 2:40:22.520 --> 2:40:25.280 access journalists, right, And so they run into this shit 2:40:25.320 --> 2:40:27.360 and they have no fucking idea what the hell is 2:40:27.400 --> 2:40:30.600 going on, And it's just really really easily just sort 2:40:30.600 --> 2:40:33.560 of like bamboozle them by just doing something that any gamer, like, 2:40:33.959 --> 2:40:35.840 you know, you like, you show a gamer like a 2:40:35.920 --> 2:40:38.240 League of Legends addict, and they will instantly be able 2:40:38.240 --> 2:40:40.440 to just like read this person like a fucking book. Also, 2:40:40.440 --> 2:40:42.920 by the way, gaming addiction like is like kind of 2:40:42.920 --> 2:40:44.959 a fake thing. I'm like mostly joking here, but also 2:40:45.080 --> 2:40:48.800 like League of Legends makes you a worse person. It 2:40:48.920 --> 2:40:51.280 simply does. You just get mad all the time. I've 2:40:51.280 --> 2:40:53.440 known too many League Legisp players of my goddamn life. 2:40:53.680 --> 2:40:54.920 Holy shit, terrible game. 2:40:55.240 --> 2:41:00.080 Yeah, but arcane though, right, All right, oh god. 2:41:00.400 --> 2:41:02.080 Okay, We're gonna take an ad break, and then when 2:41:02.080 --> 2:41:04.360 I come back, I'm gonna explain part of why this worked, 2:41:04.360 --> 2:41:07.080 which is the unique incompetence of Michael lewis Well. 2:41:07.200 --> 2:41:10.039 I look forward to that. I love hearing about unique incompetence. 2:41:20.280 --> 2:41:22.760 So we are back now, Okay, Obviously. Part of the 2:41:22.760 --> 2:41:24.560 reason this works too is you know, as I've been 2:41:24.560 --> 2:41:27.240 talking about, right, like these these really out of touch 2:41:27.560 --> 2:41:30.400 sort of like mainstream journalists who just don't understand an 2:41:30.640 --> 2:41:31.560 enormous market. 2:41:31.840 --> 2:41:32.000 Right. 2:41:33.000 --> 2:41:35.600 But Lewis is in some sense kind of a special 2:41:35.600 --> 2:41:41.279 case because he is really truly an unbelievably glible dumbass. 2:41:42.160 --> 2:41:43.879 And to get an understanding of this, I'm gonna go 2:41:43.920 --> 2:41:46.280 into something that Lewis in theory understands a lot better, 2:41:46.280 --> 2:41:47.000 which is sports. 2:41:47.160 --> 2:41:49.000 So Lewis has. 2:41:48.800 --> 2:41:51.320 Written two of the most famous books ever written about sports, 2:41:51.360 --> 2:41:54.280 right He wrote Moneyball, which is the book that we're 2:41:54.280 --> 2:41:56.039 gonna be talking about, which I'll get to in a second. 2:41:56.040 --> 2:41:57.760 And he wrote The Blindside, which is another book that 2:41:58.120 --> 2:42:00.680 they talk about on Behind the Bass Riaging listen to that, 2:42:01.240 --> 2:42:03.880 But I want to go in on Moneybomb. Moneyball is 2:42:03.879 --> 2:42:07.720 supposed to be this book about how this underdog athletics 2:42:07.800 --> 2:42:11.320 team invented like baseball metrics, and they use sabermetrics to 2:42:11.440 --> 2:42:13.960 like like build this roster out of nothing that like 2:42:14.080 --> 2:42:16.960 went to the playoffs and did really well, and and 2:42:17.080 --> 2:42:19.000 like I'm not going to get into the extent to 2:42:19.040 --> 2:42:21.680 which this was kind of a mirage about that Oakland 2:42:21.680 --> 2:42:24.160 A's team, Like whatever. I'm not gonna argue about baseball statistics. 2:42:24.640 --> 2:42:27.000 What I will argue about is that one of the 2:42:27.080 --> 2:42:29.879 characters in this fucking book, right, who's one of the 2:42:29.920 --> 2:42:32.440 sort of like underdog geniuses and like Michael Lewis loves 2:42:32.480 --> 2:42:36.560 to find, right, is this guy named Paul Pedesta. He 2:42:36.680 --> 2:42:38.480 is he is like one of the main figures in 2:42:38.520 --> 2:42:41.119 this book. He's like, he's kind of like an assistant coach. Basically, 2:42:41.240 --> 2:42:42.200 what baseball team is this? 2:42:42.240 --> 2:42:42.560 Oh? 2:42:42.560 --> 2:42:45.680 This is the Oakland Athletics. Are now the last Vegas 2:42:45.720 --> 2:42:47.400 Athletics or some shit. I don't know that they moved 2:42:47.440 --> 2:42:50.000 to Vegas. I don't know what they're called the athletics now. No, no, 2:42:50.040 --> 2:42:51.520 they are originally called the athletic I don't know what 2:42:51.520 --> 2:42:53.400 they're called now. They've always been the well except what 2:42:53.400 --> 2:42:56.000 just calls them the Oakland A's. They've been the A's forever. 2:42:56.080 --> 2:42:59.320 But yeah, they've they've they've also been stolen. Las Vegas 2:42:59.360 --> 2:43:01.680 has now stolen both the football team and the baseball 2:43:01.720 --> 2:43:02.840 team of Oakland. 2:43:03.000 --> 2:43:05.360 Oh see, I was thinking of the football team. Yeah, 2:43:05.560 --> 2:43:07.720 because I was like, wait a minute, didn't didn't Las 2:43:07.800 --> 2:43:09.400 Vegas Thetors go there too. 2:43:09.680 --> 2:43:11.680 Yes, yes, they stole both of them. 2:43:11.720 --> 2:43:14.080 That's what I was thinking. And I am more of 2:43:14.080 --> 2:43:15.959 a baseball head than a football head. 2:43:16.040 --> 2:43:18.000 But yeah, so okay, unfortunately we're gonna be talking about 2:43:18.000 --> 2:43:21.200 football here. So this guy, right, Paul Padesta's like one 2:43:21.200 --> 2:43:24.480 of these sort of geniuses she later goes on to be. 2:43:25.840 --> 2:43:27.720 It's kind of unclear exactly what he was doing in 2:43:27.720 --> 2:43:31.519 the organization, but he is hired by the just absolutely 2:43:31.680 --> 2:43:35.760 wretched the football franchise, the Cleveland Browns. Now to get 2:43:35.760 --> 2:43:38.480 an understanding of how wretched the Cleveland Browns are. My 2:43:38.600 --> 2:43:40.680 opening savment for him on the Browns is it is 2:43:40.760 --> 2:43:45.200 genuinely unclear how responsible Paul Podesta is for the Browns 2:43:45.280 --> 2:43:47.920 over the course of two seasons, going one in thirty one, 2:43:48.640 --> 2:43:52.000 which is a feat of like just absolutely sucking shit 2:43:52.240 --> 2:43:55.080 that is unrivaled in any other major American sports. I 2:43:55.080 --> 2:43:58.400 think until the fucking moon crashes into the earth, no 2:43:58.440 --> 2:44:01.240 one is going to fucking go one in thirty one 2:44:01.480 --> 2:44:03.520 in two clus two seasons of football. Again, so again, 2:44:03.560 --> 2:44:06.080 that is a one in fifteen season followed by an 2:44:06.120 --> 2:44:09.160 owen sixteen season. The second oh to sixteen season ever 2:44:09.800 --> 2:44:12.160 unclear how responsible for this he is. But what he 2:44:12.240 --> 2:44:16.320 is responsible for is the Shaun Watson trade. Okay, it's 2:44:16.320 --> 2:44:17.840 like mea, why the fuck you're talking about this? Part 2:44:17.920 --> 2:44:19.840 of this is also like these people are just evil. 2:44:20.520 --> 2:44:24.080 Deshaun Watson is a serial sexual predator. I couldn't get 2:44:24.080 --> 2:44:27.480 an accurate estimate of how many women, specifically massage therapists 2:44:27.480 --> 2:44:29.840 mostly have accused him of sexual assault. He is like 2:44:29.920 --> 2:44:32.360 one of the worst people in the entire NFL, which 2:44:32.400 --> 2:44:35.039 is a league of a lot of people who absolutely 2:44:35.040 --> 2:44:37.680 fucking suck shit. So so that that's the first thing 2:44:37.720 --> 2:44:40.000 you have to understand about Watson's that he is just 2:44:40.600 --> 2:44:44.200 really fucking like morally reprehensible, right. He is like a 2:44:44.240 --> 2:44:47.240 bad enough sexual predator that the NFL actually fucking suspended 2:44:47.280 --> 2:44:51.280 him for a season. And Paul Podesta, who again is 2:44:51.320 --> 2:44:54.039 the guy whom Michael Lewis is supposed to be like touting, 2:44:54.120 --> 2:44:57.400 is like this genius analytics guy, decides that he is 2:44:57.480 --> 2:44:59.280 going to set up this deal for his team to 2:44:59.320 --> 2:45:01.600 trade for DeShawn Watson, who've been on the Texans, and again, 2:45:01.680 --> 2:45:04.879 like Garrison, like, imagine how evil you have to be 2:45:04.959 --> 2:45:10.240 for the Houston Texans to trade you on fucking moral grounds, Nia. 2:45:10.360 --> 2:45:13.400 Do you expect me to know anything about the Houston Texans. 2:45:13.400 --> 2:45:16.240 It is a team from Houston, Texas. 2:45:16.040 --> 2:45:18.480 That's all you need to know about this. And they 2:45:18.640 --> 2:45:21.720 traded this guy. Hey, at least it's not Austin. No 2:45:21.760 --> 2:45:23.600 offense to our Austin listeners. 2:45:23.800 --> 2:45:27.879 They fucking traded this guy, right, and popadest to orchestrates 2:45:27.920 --> 2:45:30.520 this trade that is three is it is the worst 2:45:30.520 --> 2:45:31.920 trade in the history of football. 2:45:31.959 --> 2:45:33.160 It is three first. 2:45:32.959 --> 2:45:35.120 Round picks, two thirds, two third round picks, and a 2:45:35.120 --> 2:45:37.440 fourth round pick. And they hand this guy, who, again 2:45:37.440 --> 2:45:40.880 I kind of emphasize this enough, is a serial sexual predator, right, 2:45:41.200 --> 2:45:45.279 they hand him two hundred and thirty million guaranteed dollars, 2:45:45.640 --> 2:45:49.080 the largest guaranteed salary the history of the NFL. So okay, So, 2:45:49.240 --> 2:45:51.440 how does Deshaun Watson, like again, this guy who's being 2:45:51.480 --> 2:45:54.200 held up by the guy who is now laundering being 2:45:54.200 --> 2:45:56.280 a gamer as like the great symbol of sort of 2:45:56.320 --> 2:45:58.720 like cultural like being a rogue outsider. 2:45:58.800 --> 2:45:59.760 Right, how does. 2:45:59.680 --> 2:46:03.760 Deshaun Watson his greatest fucking project due on the field. 2:46:04.000 --> 2:46:06.199 So in his first season, he basically got injured immediately. 2:46:06.840 --> 2:46:10.320 It is second season, in weeks one through five out 2:46:10.320 --> 2:46:14.040 of out of seven hundred and fifty nine quarterbacks. Since 2:46:14.040 --> 2:46:16.680 the year two thousand, to start weeks one through five 2:46:16.720 --> 2:46:20.000 out of again seven hundred and fifty nine quarterbacks, he 2:46:20.160 --> 2:46:23.560 ranks seven hundred and fifty three out of seven hundred 2:46:23.600 --> 2:46:28.000 and fifty nine EPA for dropback seven hundred and fifty 2:46:28.040 --> 2:46:30.440 three out of seven hundred and fifty nine. They traded 2:46:30.480 --> 2:46:33.480 three first round picks for this guy. He has a 2:46:33.640 --> 2:46:37.240 mind boggling an EPA of negative point three, which means 2:46:37.240 --> 2:46:39.680 every time the serial sexual predator drops back to make 2:46:39.720 --> 2:46:43.080 a pass, they are expected to get point three less 2:46:43.160 --> 2:46:45.279 points than an average team would. 2:46:45.879 --> 2:46:49.320 How did you trick me into being on a sports episode? 2:46:49.760 --> 2:46:51.520 I only agreed to this because I thought it was 2:46:51.680 --> 2:46:53.200 video game. Don't worry. 2:46:53.200 --> 2:46:55.240 We're we're we're we're almost We're almost done with the 2:46:55.280 --> 2:46:57.440 sports part of it. But there, I promise there is 2:46:57.520 --> 2:47:00.400 actually a reason why I'm doing this, which is which 2:47:00.400 --> 2:47:02.680 is the argument that's that that sports and the sports 2:47:02.680 --> 2:47:05.240 and gaming actually serve very very similar cultural roles for 2:47:05.280 --> 2:47:05.600 the right. 2:47:06.000 --> 2:47:09.480 Yeah, of course, yes, I understand that. I can I 2:47:09.720 --> 2:47:10.440 can see that. 2:47:10.680 --> 2:47:12.560 Yes, also, I've always wanted to fuck you can played 2:47:12.560 --> 2:47:13.880 about this on area, and this is this is the 2:47:13.879 --> 2:47:15.440 best fucky chance I've ever gonna get. 2:47:15.640 --> 2:47:18.119 So Jesus fucking because it's like what I talk about 2:47:18.160 --> 2:47:20.959 like movies or something. Is this, yes, yes, this is 2:47:20.959 --> 2:47:22.840 what it feels like. Is this what I sound like? 2:47:23.760 --> 2:47:24.400 Yes it is. 2:47:24.440 --> 2:47:26.400 It is absolutely what you sound like. So this guy 2:47:26.560 --> 2:47:29.720 is like a generationally awful quarterback. They sign away basically 2:47:29.760 --> 2:47:32.080 the entire future of this team hand this guy who 2:47:32.120 --> 2:47:34.720 is a serial sexual predator two hundred and thirty million dollars. 2:47:34.720 --> 2:47:37.640 And this is the guy that fucking Michael Lewis expects 2:47:37.640 --> 2:47:40.480 you to think is like a fucking analytics genius. And 2:47:40.720 --> 2:47:43.440 this all comes back to again, like you know, the 2:47:43.640 --> 2:47:46.480 sort of mythology, the basic mythology of the nerd is 2:47:46.480 --> 2:47:49.800 that they're like picked on, like by the jock or whatever. Right, 2:47:49.800 --> 2:47:51.440 That's that's like that's like the fundamental base of their 2:47:51.480 --> 2:47:52.959 mythology that there's are like oppressed by this. 2:47:53.040 --> 2:47:54.720 But like it's just like. 2:47:54.959 --> 2:47:58.240 The same masculinity bullshit all the way down, And you 2:47:58.280 --> 2:48:01.520 can watch, like, just like the worst people in fucking history, 2:48:02.240 --> 2:48:05.760 this trick literally exactly the same people into thinking that 2:48:05.760 --> 2:48:09.160 they're fucking geniuses by using both of these fucking affects. 2:48:09.680 --> 2:48:12.320 So I want to read something, you know in looking 2:48:12.400 --> 2:48:15.040 at the way that this stuff functions, the way that 2:48:15.200 --> 2:48:19.400 gaming functions, like specifically in the culture, and you know 2:48:19.640 --> 2:48:23.320 why these people choose to use gaming as like you 2:48:23.320 --> 2:48:25.640 knows as the sort of affect they're trying to project 2:48:25.680 --> 2:48:27.760 into the world. I want to read something by a 2:48:27.760 --> 2:48:29.960 friend of the show, Vicky Osterwel and a piece called 2:48:29.959 --> 2:48:33.840 game Boys. Video games also emerge at a time when 2:48:33.879 --> 2:48:39.160 technology facilitates an increasingly administered life in which alienation and 2:48:39.240 --> 2:48:43.680 isolation feel like a prerequisite to social engagement. Consumer choice 2:48:43.720 --> 2:48:47.520 is a form of control. An unbounded economic competition produces 2:48:47.520 --> 2:48:52.080 widespread anxiety to structure as pleasurable the repetition, learning, and 2:48:52.160 --> 2:48:56.039 boredom that one was mastered to live under current economic conditions. 2:48:56.640 --> 2:48:59.960 Games rely on affects, moods, and ideas that are capable 2:48:59.959 --> 2:49:03.040 of producing not only forms of violence directed towards non 2:49:03.040 --> 2:49:07.480 normative groups, but also forms of intimacy, fantasy, and play 2:49:07.520 --> 2:49:11.840 that point towards the horizon outside of capital's clutches. Games 2:49:11.920 --> 2:49:15.200 provide different compensations for people who are differently situated in 2:49:15.240 --> 2:49:19.439 the social hierarchy. They give white men aggrandizing power inventions 2:49:19.440 --> 2:49:23.120 fantasies that modulate their sense of self importance under conditions 2:49:23.120 --> 2:49:26.080 that disempower them, but they are also capable of giving 2:49:26.160 --> 2:49:29.240 everyone else the fantasy of an alternative to white supremacist 2:49:29.320 --> 2:49:34.240 patriarchal capitalism. This has been particularly clear in how queer creators, writers, 2:49:34.240 --> 2:49:37.080 and fans have found space in and around games, despite 2:49:37.080 --> 2:49:41.600 the organized harassment campaigns, intensely misogynist industry advertising campaigns, and 2:49:41.640 --> 2:49:44.920 widespread critical and cultural degradation of games that aren't played 2:49:44.920 --> 2:49:48.240 by CIS men. So, I think the important thing here, 2:49:48.240 --> 2:49:50.800 and this is something important to remember both for Sambap 2:49:50.840 --> 2:49:53.840 been freed and also for the construction of right wing 2:49:53.879 --> 2:49:56.400 gaming movements in general, and for what we're going to 2:49:56.400 --> 2:49:59.920 talk about with Elon Musk, is that gaming is content 2:50:00.040 --> 2:50:02.920 tested ground right. As much as we think of gamers 2:50:03.000 --> 2:50:06.200 as like right wingers right, there are a lot of 2:50:06.440 --> 2:50:08.160 what you would call to like traditionally sort of left 2:50:08.160 --> 2:50:10.960 looming demographics that play video games and have made spaces 2:50:11.040 --> 2:50:14.240 here because as much as they are in some ways 2:50:14.280 --> 2:50:16.440 like this force of discipline that like is something that 2:50:16.640 --> 2:50:20.280 you learn, the kinds of like, ability to tolerate boredom 2:50:20.280 --> 2:50:23.200 and repetition and things like that that you know you 2:50:23.320 --> 2:50:26.959 use for fucking work, they're also a thing that people 2:50:27.120 --> 2:50:31.800 use to like escape the fucking hell world totally. And like, 2:50:31.840 --> 2:50:34.480 I mean I know this, right, Like I am fucking 2:50:34.720 --> 2:50:37.000 like I'm a Chinese, chances remen better, he's better at 2:50:37.040 --> 2:50:38.760 video games, and both the people have been to be 2:50:38.760 --> 2:50:40.440 fucking talking about in the story, right. 2:50:40.360 --> 2:50:42.400 Like, well, I heard, I heard his Path of Exile 2:50:42.480 --> 2:50:43.959 character was actually quite advanced. 2:50:44.040 --> 2:50:45.760 But oh, we're gonna we're gonna talk about the Path 2:50:45.800 --> 2:50:48.320 of Exile character fucking next, you know. But but I mean 2:50:48.360 --> 2:50:50.800 it's it's worth mentioning like speed running, right, which is 2:50:50.840 --> 2:50:53.599 a very very trans genre. 2:50:53.440 --> 2:50:57.240 Competitive gaming in general, competitive fighting games. Uh yeah, it depends. 2:50:57.360 --> 2:50:59.000 It depends a lot on the genre. But yeah, like 2:50:59.040 --> 2:51:02.800 competitive fighting game like yeah, Melee, I'm gonna briefly mention 2:51:02.879 --> 2:51:05.560 Sonic Fox, who is a black, non binary furry who's 2:51:05.600 --> 2:51:07.520 like one of the greatest fighting game players of all time, 2:51:08.200 --> 2:51:12.360 incredibly beloved, the only person in history ever to beat 2:51:12.360 --> 2:51:16.040 someone thirteen to zero in a first to eleven absolute legends, right, 2:51:16.080 --> 2:51:18.480 But you know, these are the people that these sort 2:51:18.520 --> 2:51:21.520 of like fascist adjacent people are trying to drive out 2:51:21.600 --> 2:51:23.480 so they can use gaming as like as a sort 2:51:23.480 --> 2:51:27.080 of cultural force. And this functions both in gaming and 2:51:27.240 --> 2:51:29.879 also fuck it in real life. Right now, these people 2:51:29.920 --> 2:51:32.080 are in power, and you know who else is in power. 2:51:32.120 --> 2:51:34.119 It's a product and services to support this podcast. 2:51:34.360 --> 2:51:47.560 All Hail, we are back now. 2:51:47.640 --> 2:51:50.080 Obviously, the other part of this, you know, we've talked 2:51:50.120 --> 2:51:52.160 of it. We've talked mostly sort of about racial politics, 2:51:52.160 --> 2:51:54.960 but there's there's an incredible sort of gender politics in gaming. 2:51:55.560 --> 2:51:57.520 And you know the thing about gaming, right is that 2:51:57.640 --> 2:52:01.840 it is to some extent a tool that people use 2:52:01.920 --> 2:52:04.480 to cope with, like, you know, the realization of the 2:52:04.520 --> 2:52:06.680 violence of the gender system. And like I am also 2:52:06.760 --> 2:52:10.440 doing this as much as the fucking weird white guy 2:52:10.560 --> 2:52:12.200 nazi like gamer dipshit. 2:52:12.360 --> 2:52:15.400 Right, Yeah, that's why I hooed up f F seven 2:52:15.840 --> 2:52:18.360 remake Hysteric Cloud Strife for hours on end when I'm 2:52:18.360 --> 2:52:19.000 feeling sad. 2:52:20.640 --> 2:52:23.280 But you know what the problem with what's happening here 2:52:23.360 --> 2:52:25.959 right is that like the right, like that we're experiencing 2:52:26.000 --> 2:52:29.640 violence and different ways, but it's like the systemic violence 2:52:29.680 --> 2:52:32.240 from the gender system that it is the same system. 2:52:32.280 --> 2:52:34.920 But these people's solution to is to blame it on women, right, 2:52:35.760 --> 2:52:37.040 and this is you know, I had a conversation with 2:52:37.160 --> 2:52:38.480 Vicky about this where a lot of this stuff is 2:52:38.520 --> 2:52:41.240 sort of drawn from and like I would compare it 2:52:41.280 --> 2:52:43.760 to like, you know, lots and lots of people deal 2:52:43.800 --> 2:52:46.920 with social isolation, right and and deal with this violence, 2:52:46.959 --> 2:52:48.760 but like you know, on the other hands, most of 2:52:48.879 --> 2:52:50.560 us don't become mass shooters. 2:52:50.360 --> 2:52:53.160 Most most Yeah, I would say, that's that's true. 2:52:53.280 --> 2:52:55.520 Yeah, right, and so and so we can look at 2:52:55.520 --> 2:52:57.360 the structural forces that produces people and also just go 2:52:57.440 --> 2:53:00.240 like fuck them, like eat shit, like I'm sorry, you've 2:53:00.240 --> 2:53:01.960 you've become Nazis, like fuck off. 2:53:02.080 --> 2:53:06.000 Skill issue in some ways among other environmental factors. 2:53:06.080 --> 2:53:07.960 But yeah, yeah, but but also a lot of times 2:53:07.959 --> 2:53:11.240 these people aren't fucking like they're not dealing with shit 2:53:11.320 --> 2:53:13.480 at all, mostly, right, I mean, like yeah, like okay, 2:53:13.520 --> 2:53:16.440 like Elon Musks weird insecurity is to some extent because 2:53:16.440 --> 2:53:18.160 of the gender system, right, but like also he is 2:53:18.200 --> 2:53:20.280 the richest man in the world, He's the most powerful 2:53:20.280 --> 2:53:22.440 man live, He's one of the most powerful people who. 2:53:22.320 --> 2:53:23.120 Has ever lived. 2:53:24.400 --> 2:53:27.560 And he still has the same sense of like aggrievement 2:53:28.520 --> 2:53:30.480 that powers all these people. And this is like one 2:53:30.480 --> 2:53:32.800 of the key things of like the gamer mythos, right, 2:53:32.879 --> 2:53:35.960 is that these people constantly believe that they're being oppressed 2:53:35.959 --> 2:53:37.199 by like jocks or whatever. 2:53:37.280 --> 2:53:39.880 And now it's it's been shifted to this not anymore. 2:53:39.920 --> 2:53:42.080 Yeah, now now they believe that they're that they're being 2:53:42.080 --> 2:53:45.560 oppressed by like fucking women in minorities, right. 2:53:45.560 --> 2:53:47.840 And and it's actually the people who are actually doing the 2:53:47.840 --> 2:53:51.440 oppression is now all of the doge nerds at the 2:53:51.480 --> 2:53:53.480 top of the system. Now it's it's been we have 2:53:53.520 --> 2:53:56.279 we've had we've had a we've had a full Uno reverso. 2:53:56.520 --> 2:53:57.920 But the thing is, these people have always been at 2:53:57.920 --> 2:53:59.520 the top of the fucking system, right and like, but 2:53:59.600 --> 2:54:02.879 but it's an it's this feeling they have of their 2:54:02.959 --> 2:54:04.800 of them being the ones who are oppressed, that like 2:54:05.280 --> 2:54:07.080 you know, made them into the shock troopers that we 2:54:07.080 --> 2:54:09.440 saw with Gamergate. If you're gonna read one vikiosc wral thing, 2:54:09.440 --> 2:54:10.840 and I'm signing her a lot because I think she's 2:54:10.879 --> 2:54:13.920 done a lot of the best critical reporting on video games, 2:54:13.920 --> 2:54:16.360 which is a field that I feel like we just 2:54:16.440 --> 2:54:18.800 haven't done much critical shit with. Like, I mean, there's 2:54:18.800 --> 2:54:20.959 been lots of stuff about working conditions in the games, industry, 2:54:20.959 --> 2:54:23.000 which are fucking terrible and it's good, but like as 2:54:23.000 --> 2:54:26.119 a medium, there hasn't been anywhere near as much critical 2:54:26.120 --> 2:54:28.720 engagement with it as there's been with like film or music. 2:54:29.600 --> 2:54:31.560 But if you're gonna read one thing from her, read 2:54:31.600 --> 2:54:33.800 a piece called goon Squad, which is about the sort 2:54:33.800 --> 2:54:37.240 of like fascist reaction to the really broken state of 2:54:37.800 --> 2:54:41.000 Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven when it came out. And one 2:54:41.040 --> 2:54:43.080 of the arguments that she makes is that these gamers 2:54:43.080 --> 2:54:45.160 are being i mean literally being used as like scabs 2:54:45.160 --> 2:54:48.039 and pinkertons against people who make video games, and you know, 2:54:48.080 --> 2:54:50.600 and this expands out to like workers more broadly, they're 2:54:50.640 --> 2:54:52.879 literally being used to silence anyone who st talks about 2:54:52.879 --> 2:54:55.400 the problems with like this game that like when Cyberpint 2:54:55.440 --> 2:54:57.720 twenty seventy seven came out, it was literally giving people 2:54:57.760 --> 2:55:00.680 seizures because it was it had just like fucking strobing 2:55:00.760 --> 2:55:03.200 flashes and bullshit in ante they didn't warn anyone about because it. 2:55:03.120 --> 2:55:04.840 Was a broken, shitty game. 2:55:05.560 --> 2:55:07.680 And you know, they're also used for just like anti 2:55:07.760 --> 2:55:10.520 queer and like anti feminist rasping campaigns, and that's that's 2:55:10.560 --> 2:55:13.920 how they're sort of mobilized in real life too, And 2:55:14.040 --> 2:55:16.600 and that gives you an insight into why these people 2:55:16.640 --> 2:55:18.960 sort of like do this signaling, right, is that they're 2:55:18.959 --> 2:55:21.920 also like signaling to their base that like I am 2:55:21.959 --> 2:55:23.640 one of you, et cetera, et cetera, like you should 2:55:23.680 --> 2:55:27.280 fucking support me for this shit now. Pivoting a little bit, 2:55:27.320 --> 2:55:29.480 so when I was first talking about this episode, I 2:55:29.560 --> 2:55:31.680 kept on accidentally saying Sam Altman as at of Sam 2:55:31.680 --> 2:55:32.959 Bankman freed, because like. 2:55:32.959 --> 2:55:34.440 Man, they said, yeah, many such cases. 2:55:34.560 --> 2:55:37.720 Yeah, like the last, the last fucking white boy scammer 2:55:38.080 --> 2:55:42.200 named Sam has been replaced by an additional subsequent white 2:55:42.200 --> 2:55:44.959 boy scammer named Sam. And it turns out though I 2:55:44.959 --> 2:55:47.199 looked up Sam Altman and he has also been doing 2:55:47.240 --> 2:55:51.000 this like gamers stick thing, like specifically in interviews with 2:55:51.040 --> 2:55:51.680 Elon Musk. 2:55:51.840 --> 2:55:52.120 Yeah. 2:55:52.200 --> 2:55:55.400 Yeah, it's fascinating. They're both fucking doing it now. And 2:55:55.640 --> 2:55:59.720 this brings us to the man who has spent the 2:55:59.720 --> 2:56:03.120 most time publicly lying about fucking video games recently, which 2:56:03.160 --> 2:56:03.879 is Elon Musk. 2:56:03.879 --> 2:56:07.600 And Elon Musk is like not really a gamer, I 2:56:07.640 --> 2:56:11.560 would say, like he sort of plays video games. He's 2:56:11.600 --> 2:56:15.720 a Kenemine user, he's a Twitter power user. He is 2:56:15.840 --> 2:56:16.920 the shadow President. 2:56:17.800 --> 2:56:20.360 Yeah, theis man of the world, bridges man who's ever lived. 2:56:20.440 --> 2:56:20.640 Yeah. 2:56:20.760 --> 2:56:23.800 Also, he is really obsessed with everyone thinking that he 2:56:23.920 --> 2:56:25.959 is like in a he's an elite video game player 2:56:26.000 --> 2:56:28.120 in like multiple games. He's obsessed with this. 2:56:28.200 --> 2:56:30.879 He's also I believe the term is a meme. Lord 2:56:31.400 --> 2:56:32.840 h if I'm reading this right. 2:56:32.959 --> 2:56:35.240 Oh god, what one of his path of xtyle two 2:56:35.320 --> 2:56:37.160 characters I didn't put in this script because it's actually 2:56:37.200 --> 2:56:38.480 not the one we're going to talk about, but one 2:56:38.480 --> 2:56:41.120 of his characters in that game was named Kekius Maximus. 2:56:41.560 --> 2:56:43.560 So like, this is the level of mind that uh, 2:56:43.760 --> 2:56:46.240 that is one of his favorite names. In his White 2:56:46.240 --> 2:56:49.439 House office, he has a he has a Kechius Maximus 2:56:49.480 --> 2:56:53.560 portrait hanging behind his desk. There's an AI generated image 2:56:53.640 --> 2:56:56.360 of like pet bite the Frog and like and like Roman, 2:56:56.520 --> 2:56:57.840 like like Caesar. 2:56:57.600 --> 2:56:59.280 At higher I hate everything. 2:56:59.640 --> 2:57:01.560 So yeah, this is the guy who does the country now. 2:57:01.800 --> 2:57:02.160 Yeah. 2:57:02.440 --> 2:57:02.840 Oops. 2:57:03.400 --> 2:57:05.320 So Elon Musk has been lying about being good at 2:57:05.360 --> 2:57:08.360 video games, and the preface to everything we're going to 2:57:08.360 --> 2:57:11.000 get to you is that he has actually he's like 2:57:11.080 --> 2:57:13.600 for a long time been doing a like I'm a 2:57:13.640 --> 2:57:16.840 gamer thing. So his kind of problems, and I think 2:57:16.879 --> 2:57:19.800 really the origin of the weird paying people to make 2:57:19.879 --> 2:57:21.760 him look like he's good at video games thing that 2:57:21.800 --> 2:57:23.959 we're gonna get you in a second. This is something 2:57:23.959 --> 2:57:26.000 that that Blue Sky user gay Dog reminded me of 2:57:26.000 --> 2:57:28.320 because I'd forgot he has so many gaming scandals I'd 2:57:28.320 --> 2:57:32.200 forgotten about this one, which is that he at one 2:57:32.240 --> 2:57:34.960 point posted his build for the hit game Elden Ring, 2:57:35.120 --> 2:57:38.680 which is very difficult game, and he had two different 2:57:38.720 --> 2:57:43.760 shields equipped, which makes literally no sense. It's like over encumbered, 2:57:44.240 --> 2:57:48.600 Like it's okay, like the best expianation I've tried to 2:57:48.840 --> 2:57:51.160 I figured out for Like how bad at this game 2:57:51.200 --> 2:57:54.120 he is? Is that posting this build on Twitter is 2:57:54.160 --> 2:57:56.800 the video game equivalent of going like, hey, look at 2:57:56.800 --> 2:57:59.080 my fucking sports car. It's stepping into like the shittiest 2:57:59.120 --> 2:58:02.160 call you've ever seen, and then like slamming the accelerator 2:58:02.200 --> 2:58:03.240 with the parking break on. 2:58:03.720 --> 2:58:07.560 Hey, I love the masdamiata Like that's that's like the 2:58:07.600 --> 2:58:08.360 game of Criminals. 2:58:08.360 --> 2:58:10.520 And everyone who looked at it immediately was like, this 2:58:10.560 --> 2:58:12.920 is the dumbest man who has ever lived. This man 2:58:13.000 --> 2:58:15.440 has no idea what the fuck he's doing. He is 2:58:15.840 --> 2:58:19.720 just like like unable to understand basic fundamental systems about 2:58:19.720 --> 2:58:25.959 this game, like just baffling incomprehensible bullshit. And this was 2:58:26.000 --> 2:58:27.720 like kind of a scandal for him. It wasn't like 2:58:27.760 --> 2:58:29.800 a huge one, but like especially like this is one 2:58:29.840 --> 2:58:31.680 that sort of broke on to the left a lot, 2:58:31.760 --> 2:58:34.480 and people were giving him shit about it. So the 2:58:34.520 --> 2:58:36.960 next time he wanted to brag about having been good 2:58:37.000 --> 2:58:40.360 at video games, he very clearly like paid someone else 2:58:40.520 --> 2:58:43.400 to like accomplish some stuff in this game called Diabo four. 2:58:43.920 --> 2:58:45.760 I'm not gonna talk about Diebow stuff much because I'm 2:58:45.760 --> 2:58:47.760 a Path of Exile player, not diable player, the diable 2:58:47.800 --> 2:58:49.720 and Path vax Ale like Fairy much the same kind 2:58:49.760 --> 2:58:52.760 of game basically, like you click somewhere and your character 2:58:52.800 --> 2:58:55.400 goes there and you click other things that it does attacks. 2:58:56.320 --> 2:59:00.280 But famously, like this year, he pretended to be one 2:59:00.320 --> 2:59:03.200 of like the best Path of Exile two players in 2:59:03.240 --> 2:59:06.000 the world, and he was doing this on his alt account, 2:59:06.080 --> 2:59:10.240 which is has to handle. It's Cybergamer for twenty but 2:59:10.360 --> 2:59:14.680 the all the e's are threes, So with CYB three 2:59:15.000 --> 2:59:18.879 r G A M three R four twenty Wait wait. 2:59:18.840 --> 2:59:21.160 Wait, wait, say say that again. 2:59:21.600 --> 2:59:28.480 It's at CYB three r GA M three R four twenty. 2:59:28.840 --> 2:59:32.000 So I think I found something. I think the four 2:59:32.000 --> 2:59:36.840 to twenty at the end is actually a reference to 2:59:36.920 --> 2:59:40.960 Hitler's birthday April twenty damn it. 2:59:43.120 --> 2:59:46.520 So okay, he like claims to have one of the 2:59:46.600 --> 2:59:49.280 like the best characters in hardcore, which is in mode 2:59:49.280 --> 2:59:50.880 of Path of Exile, where if he died once you 2:59:50.920 --> 2:59:53.760 get kicked out of it. So it's very hard to 2:59:53.879 --> 2:59:57.400 like prove that he actually did this. He like does 2:59:57.440 --> 2:59:59.879 a live stream where he tries to play Path of Exile, 3:00:00.560 --> 3:00:04.039 like on a Twitter live stream, and it is immediately 3:00:04.120 --> 3:00:06.120 obvious that, like he has no idea what he's doing. 3:00:06.560 --> 3:00:08.520 Like it's not just obviously people who play the game. 3:00:08.680 --> 3:00:10.520 I hadn't played Path of xel To at this point, right, 3:00:10.520 --> 3:00:13.039 I had only played the original one like a decade ago, 3:00:13.480 --> 3:00:15.520 like a little bit of it, And I took one 3:00:15.600 --> 3:00:17.320 look at what he was doing and immediately was like, 3:00:17.320 --> 3:00:19.520 this guy has never played this game before, like has 3:00:19.520 --> 3:00:21.920 no idea what he's fucking doing. Like it was so 3:00:22.000 --> 3:00:24.320 unbelievably obvious, Like he like walked past one of those 3:00:24.400 --> 3:00:26.760 valuable currencies in the game, just like walked past it. 3:00:26.800 --> 3:00:30.200 Didn't notice it. It's like staggeringly obvious anyone who plays 3:00:30.240 --> 3:00:32.280 video games. This guy has no idea what the fuck 3:00:32.320 --> 3:00:36.320 he's doing. And this actually explodes on him, and eventually 3:00:36.320 --> 3:00:39.560 he's forced to reveal that he paid someone to level 3:00:39.640 --> 3:00:41.400 his Path of exel to account and then he claims 3:00:41.440 --> 3:00:42.679 that he never claims. 3:00:42.320 --> 3:00:43.959 That it was his path of xl too account. 3:00:44.879 --> 3:00:49.160 And this Jenny Weinley has been a real problem for 3:00:49.280 --> 3:00:53.440 him because it pissed off like the entire gaming scene. 3:00:54.480 --> 3:00:56.480 So you have videos with like millions of views. Some 3:00:56.600 --> 3:00:58.720 guys like Asthmagold, who was like a he's a very 3:00:58.760 --> 3:01:01.440 famous right wing streamer who like sucks ass like is 3:01:01.520 --> 3:01:07.279 like a turbo right winger, like spends his time screaming 3:01:07.400 --> 3:01:11.279 about how like black people in video games is dei 3:01:11.320 --> 3:01:13.879 and woke and how it's destroying the video game industry 3:01:15.080 --> 3:01:17.720 and fucking asthma Goold is watching this video and being 3:01:17.760 --> 3:01:19.320 like this guy is a lying piece of shit, what 3:01:19.360 --> 3:01:23.920 the fuck? And like everyone fucking reacts like this. It's 3:01:24.080 --> 3:01:29.560 genuinely wild. I've never actually seen people like react to this, 3:01:29.840 --> 3:01:31.959 to like to elon like this and like like again, 3:01:32.000 --> 3:01:34.280 like this is his allies on the right taking one 3:01:34.360 --> 3:01:37.080 look at this and being like, wait, this guy's just 3:01:37.120 --> 3:01:37.760 like lying. 3:01:39.080 --> 3:01:39.280 Now. 3:01:39.640 --> 3:01:43.320 What's interesting about about this to some extent is that, like, again, 3:01:43.520 --> 3:01:45.680 his whole thing here is he's trying to like pretend 3:01:45.680 --> 3:01:47.520 that he's like a pro gamer or whatever, but his 3:01:47.520 --> 3:01:50.640 affect is still largely targeted towards non gamers in the 3:01:50.680 --> 3:01:53.760 sense that like, there's no way, I mean, okay, I 3:01:53.760 --> 3:01:56.680 guess it is possible that he genuinely is so ignorant 3:01:56.680 --> 3:01:58.480 that he believed that he could just pretend to be 3:01:58.480 --> 3:02:00.280 a top of Little Pets of Path of Exile on 3:02:00.320 --> 3:02:03.480 a stream using someone else's account, but like, there's no 3:02:03.480 --> 3:02:05.480 way anyone who plays video games could fall for that, 3:02:05.840 --> 3:02:07.360 And a lot of people he talks to you about 3:02:07.400 --> 3:02:09.560 the stuff, for people like Joe Rogan who aren't like 3:02:09.840 --> 3:02:13.920 gamer TM people, right, it's like a lot of it's 3:02:13.920 --> 3:02:15.320 a lot of people who aren't gamers, and he's like 3:02:15.320 --> 3:02:17.360 sort of hyping up his reputation with and so he's 3:02:17.400 --> 3:02:19.200 really on the one hand, yeah, he is signaling to 3:02:19.240 --> 3:02:21.560 his sort of fascist bass, but on the other hand, 3:02:21.720 --> 3:02:24.440 he's trying to use the sort of like cultural cachet 3:02:24.720 --> 3:02:26.840 of of gaming as like this sort of renegade right 3:02:26.879 --> 3:02:30.920 wing phenomena to like launder his reputation. Except he fucked 3:02:31.000 --> 3:02:34.160 up because he, you know, spent all of this time 3:02:34.240 --> 3:02:37.360 trying to like pretend to be a gamer. But the 3:02:37.600 --> 3:02:40.039 thing about gamers is that, like there is literally an 3:02:40.200 --> 3:02:43.320 entire genre of video like on YouTube that is very 3:02:43.400 --> 3:02:46.160 very popular. That is just like people exposing people who 3:02:46.280 --> 3:02:49.560 cheated video games, cheated record to video games. And Elon 3:02:49.640 --> 3:02:53.039 has walked just like directly into this bear trap, right. 3:02:53.520 --> 3:02:57.560 And that means we got him, folks, mission accomplished. Wrap 3:02:57.600 --> 3:03:01.320 it up, We beat Elon, got him. It's over. He's 3:03:01.360 --> 3:03:04.760 he's been cast out of civil society for the high 3:03:04.840 --> 3:03:09.240 crime of pretending to play a video game. He has 3:03:09.320 --> 3:03:13.480 lost all respect among among the farthest reaches of the right. 3:03:14.480 --> 3:03:17.800 So what's next? We have what he has? He has 3:03:17.840 --> 3:03:19.560 one more scandal that we actually have to talk about. 3:03:19.680 --> 3:03:21.720 Is this about the one video game he hasn't played? 3:03:22.440 --> 3:03:25.960 Which is the funniest Elon Musk gamer story in my opinion? 3:03:26.320 --> 3:03:28.160 Which which are you which? What are you talking about? 3:03:28.240 --> 3:03:30.640 That's the one that that that he he had to 3:03:30.680 --> 3:03:35.640 publicly announce that he he does not play GTA five. Oh, 3:03:35.720 --> 3:03:38.080 that was funny. I forgot about that because he doesn't 3:03:38.200 --> 3:03:42.080 like quote unquote doing crime and g t A five 3:03:42.440 --> 3:03:46.640 quote required shooting police officers in the opening scene just 3:03:46.959 --> 3:03:49.920 couldn't do it unquote. Oh, I really forgot about that. 3:03:50.360 --> 3:03:54.039 So that that proofs that at least he has some integrity. God. Now, 3:03:54.120 --> 3:03:58.320 some some gamers might be sick individuals acting out you know, 3:03:58.959 --> 3:04:03.000 violence power fans, but at least Musk has some integrity 3:04:03.600 --> 3:04:07.879 to not harm police officers in GDA five. That really 3:04:07.920 --> 3:04:10.320 shows that there's like a moral compass behind all of this, 3:04:10.879 --> 3:04:13.920 you know, at times strange behavior. 3:04:15.000 --> 3:04:17.920 Yeah, that's also like that's also him signaling to like 3:04:18.000 --> 3:04:20.400 a different like the weird Christian part of the bass. 3:04:20.680 --> 3:04:23.600 That's like, oh, violence and video games is bad, which 3:04:23.800 --> 3:04:26.040 because he's trying to single to all of his groups simultaneously, 3:04:26.480 --> 3:04:28.760 and all of them are like, this guy is a 3:04:28.800 --> 3:04:33.039 fucking loser who sucks ass and we hate him. 3:04:33.280 --> 3:04:36.119 It is pretty embarrassing. That doesn't bring me much joy 3:04:36.200 --> 3:04:39.119 because again he is the most powerful man in the world. No, 3:04:39.200 --> 3:04:41.240 but it is mildly amusing. 3:04:41.360 --> 3:04:43.360 Yeah, But so that there is a sort of serious 3:04:43.400 --> 3:04:45.959 note to this, which is that like the pushback he 3:04:46.120 --> 3:04:48.640 is getting here is like I think actually kind of 3:04:48.720 --> 3:04:51.200 is significant. So the last thing I want to talk 3:04:51.200 --> 3:04:52.959 about it is is him pretending to have been like 3:04:52.959 --> 3:04:56.320 a quake pro which the thing that he did, and 3:04:56.600 --> 3:04:58.959 there's a very interesting video about this by the YouTuber 3:04:59.000 --> 3:05:01.840 Carl Jops was like his thing is like people who 3:05:01.920 --> 3:05:05.040 fake who like fake things in video games basically, and 3:05:05.080 --> 3:05:07.960 he is like not a leftist. He's like like a 3:05:07.959 --> 3:05:10.760 center right guy basically. I mean, there's arguments about exactly 3:05:10.800 --> 3:05:13.039 how far right he is. But he did a video 3:05:13.240 --> 3:05:16.520 about about Elon claiming to be a quack player and 3:05:16.680 --> 3:05:19.840 what he found so is Elon like apparently did actually 3:05:19.879 --> 3:05:21.680 play in an early quake tournament, but none of the 3:05:21.720 --> 3:05:23.840 good players were there, and he he came his team 3:05:23.879 --> 3:05:25.480 came in second, but they came in second because they 3:05:25.520 --> 3:05:27.960 had better WiFi than everyone else and so they had 3:05:28.000 --> 3:05:30.960 less latency, which made them invincible until they ran into 3:05:30.959 --> 3:05:32.840 a team that also had good WiFi and then he 3:05:32.879 --> 3:05:35.560 got destroyed, which I just I just think it's funny, right, 3:05:35.560 --> 3:05:38.400 That's like a classic Elon Musk story, which is he 3:05:37.840 --> 3:05:40.240 he he has this thing claiming that he's like a 3:05:40.280 --> 3:05:43.000 fucking gamer legend, but it's actually because he had more 3:05:43.040 --> 3:05:44.680 money than everyone else until he ran some much who 3:05:44.680 --> 3:05:45.960 had the same amount of money that he did and 3:05:46.040 --> 3:05:49.240 just got destroyed. But the reason I bring this up 3:05:49.320 --> 3:05:52.439 is that like at the end of this video, jobstays 3:05:52.640 --> 3:05:55.480 like goes on this whole thing about how and this 3:05:55.560 --> 3:05:58.400 is this is like a stronger statement against Elon mustin 3:05:58.440 --> 3:06:00.840 I have seen from anything in the mainstream press where 3:06:00.879 --> 3:06:02.560 he literally goes on a thing where he says, yeah, 3:06:02.560 --> 3:06:04.440 every single thing that Elon Musk has been saying here 3:06:04.480 --> 3:06:08.040 is a lie, and because he is just obviously lying 3:06:08.040 --> 3:06:10.039 out of his ass, but literally everything in a field 3:06:10.040 --> 3:06:11.879 that I know, this means that I literally can't trust 3:06:11.959 --> 3:06:14.760 him when he says anything about any other fucking field 3:06:14.760 --> 3:06:18.520 that I don't know. And this is a real shift, right. 3:06:18.560 --> 3:06:21.800 I have never seen a mainstream journalist write down Elon 3:06:21.879 --> 3:06:24.400 Musk is just clearly a liar about this, and so 3:06:24.480 --> 3:06:26.959 you should not be able to trust anything else he 3:06:27.000 --> 3:06:29.520 fucking says. This is a larger degree of pushback than 3:06:29.520 --> 3:06:34.160 anything else ever fucking seen outside of like the left about. 3:06:33.760 --> 3:06:34.920 What Elon Musk is doing. 3:06:34.959 --> 3:06:36.440 And like just the willingness to just be like this 3:06:36.480 --> 3:06:39.240 guy is a fucking just just a serial liar, like 3:06:39.320 --> 3:06:41.360 everything says is a lie. He literally calls him a 3:06:41.440 --> 3:06:43.280 con like, says that his activity is like a con man. 3:06:43.800 --> 3:06:45.400 He says the things that he's saying are like either 3:06:45.440 --> 3:06:48.199 liars or delusional. There is a kind of like shift 3:06:48.200 --> 3:06:51.240 happening right now where people like really are turning on him. 3:06:51.560 --> 3:06:54.600 There's day that happened literally today where Ubisoft. You know, 3:06:54.720 --> 3:06:58.000 ubi Soft is a famously like not a leftist company, 3:06:58.520 --> 3:07:01.400 right like thea've done a lot of horrible, fucked up 3:07:01.400 --> 3:07:05.879 sexual assault stuff. So Elon's mad at Ubisoft because one 3:07:05.879 --> 3:07:07.800 of their games has a black guy as like a 3:07:07.879 --> 3:07:11.680 character in it, and literally the official Assassin's Create accounts 3:07:11.840 --> 3:07:15.200 replied to one of his tweets saying, is that what 3:07:15.240 --> 3:07:17.720 the guy playing your Path of Axile two account told you? 3:07:18.240 --> 3:07:20.560 And like replied and replied to a thing about Hassan 3:07:21.440 --> 3:07:24.720 like we we are genuinely seeing a shift in this space, 3:07:25.280 --> 3:07:28.120 right This thing that had been like a really really 3:07:28.160 --> 3:07:31.920 consistent base of support with people like Elon is kind 3:07:31.920 --> 3:07:34.320 of fracturing against him and is sort of being polarized 3:07:34.320 --> 3:07:37.320 against him by just like the fact that he's just 3:07:37.560 --> 3:07:41.160 is so obviously cynically pandering to them, and how unbelievably 3:07:41.160 --> 3:07:44.200 transparent it is. And like obviously, like I don't think 3:07:44.240 --> 3:07:46.120 like the gamers are going to like fucking rise up 3:07:46.200 --> 3:07:49.440 or whatever. But the actual serious point to all of this, 3:07:49.560 --> 3:07:51.840 other than like looking at the ways of fascism, like 3:07:51.920 --> 3:07:53.520 why these people do this and like gamers is like 3:07:53.520 --> 3:07:55.480 a demographic that's important to these people, is that, like 3:07:56.440 --> 3:07:59.040 the way that you destroy a coalition by this isn't 3:07:59.080 --> 3:08:03.920 necessarily bypping everyone over to your side, right, that. 3:08:03.840 --> 3:08:05.280 Doesn't happen that often. 3:08:05.720 --> 3:08:07.280 But one of the ways you can do this, and 3:08:07.320 --> 3:08:09.240 this is this is, you know, to take a really 3:08:09.240 --> 3:08:11.920 really dramatic example, this is how the Bolsheviks won the 3:08:11.959 --> 3:08:15.960 October Revolution. They got their opponents to allies to stay 3:08:15.959 --> 3:08:19.400 home and that was enough enough. People just staying on 3:08:19.440 --> 3:08:22.720 the fucking sidelines when the Bolsheviks like came for Currency's 3:08:22.760 --> 3:08:26.200 government was enough for them to take power. And I 3:08:26.240 --> 3:08:28.920 think like the actual, like the actual serious points of 3:08:28.920 --> 3:08:31.160 this is that the only way that we get out 3:08:31.160 --> 3:08:34.000 of this mess is by just systematically tearing away these 3:08:34.000 --> 3:08:36.880 people's coalitions so that when the confrontation with these people comes, 3:08:37.600 --> 3:08:40.080 there are enough people who would be their supporters who 3:08:40.200 --> 3:08:44.039 just fucking stay home that they can, they can be stopped. 3:08:44.320 --> 3:08:48.520 So this is at Mia Wong publicly calling for the 3:08:48.560 --> 3:08:50.000 start of gamer Gate two. 3:08:50.280 --> 3:08:51.959 Gamer Gate two is already happening, damn it. 3:08:52.000 --> 3:08:54.520 This is gamer Gate three. This is an open call 3:08:55.240 --> 3:08:59.920 to begin gamer Gate two point five right now on. 3:09:00.160 --> 3:09:03.360 Behalf of me along, becaure you at me a oh no, 3:09:05.120 --> 3:09:09.520 and then hopefully and I'll finally usher in the American 3:09:09.560 --> 3:09:15.199 Bolshevik revolution after we get enough gamers just to stay 3:09:15.280 --> 3:09:18.600 home or even better rise up right. We can we 3:09:18.640 --> 3:09:20.520 can make some kind of graphic with like a fist 3:09:20.560 --> 3:09:24.920 holding a controller or a keyboard. If you're a nerd 3:09:24.959 --> 3:09:25.400 about it. 3:09:25.640 --> 3:09:28.080 Gamers are the cosacks. We've got to get them to 3:09:28.120 --> 3:09:30.800 knock back the regime. That's actually the Fembry revolution where 3:09:30.800 --> 3:09:31.320 they stood down. 3:09:31.360 --> 3:09:33.480 But you know, same point, same point. Come on me 3:09:33.560 --> 3:09:36.280 a geez fuck, I am one of. 3:09:36.200 --> 3:09:38.600 The biggest things of Like people need to remember that 3:09:38.600 --> 3:09:41.279 that Lenin did not overthrow the czar. He overthrew Kerensky, 3:09:41.400 --> 3:09:43.800 who was kind of a socialist guy who was run 3:09:43.840 --> 3:09:46.039 the provisional government in between the first Okay, we're done, 3:09:46.040 --> 3:09:48.720 we're done here, We're done here, we're sucking out, we're leaving. 3:09:49.200 --> 3:09:51.360 What games are you playing? What games are I playing? 3:09:51.560 --> 3:09:52.480 Pathovaxyle too. 3:09:53.120 --> 3:09:56.080 Don't play Rotato it will consume your life. Okay, play 3:09:56.120 --> 3:09:58.800 rebo Quest. Robo Quest is great. Rob Request dares to 3:09:58.840 --> 3:10:01.600 ask the question, what if like the art style of 3:10:02.000 --> 3:10:06.240 Borderlands was used for a game about rehabilitative justice. But 3:10:06.280 --> 3:10:10.000 also you're doing a roguelike with like Doom's combat. 3:10:10.120 --> 3:10:13.000 That sounds very gay, so I probably can't do that. 3:10:13.120 --> 3:10:17.279 Then I do Hell Divers too. Nearly every Monday. Armored 3:10:17.320 --> 3:10:20.320 Corps six Course six rules. Love that game. Love that game. 3:10:21.000 --> 3:10:26.119 Sonic X Shadow Generations, Final Fantasy, Sevin, and I'm waiting 3:10:26.640 --> 3:10:29.000 for Mecca Break to come out for like their their 3:10:29.040 --> 3:10:32.959 official release now that the beta's closed. Unfortunately, the character 3:10:33.000 --> 3:10:34.760 selection is very gooner coded. 3:10:34.920 --> 3:10:36.680 Many many such cases, so I made. 3:10:36.560 --> 3:10:40.439 Sure to make the smallest the smallest chest size available 3:10:40.760 --> 3:10:44.600 on my on my model. But the gameplay is fun. 3:10:46.640 --> 3:10:47.879 This has been it could happen here. 3:10:48.280 --> 3:10:52.160 I good lord, they pay me for this. 3:10:53.040 --> 3:10:54.920 I had to. I had to watch so. 3:10:54.879 --> 3:10:59.000 Many videos about Deshaun Watson and fucking clips of of 3:10:59.000 --> 3:11:02.080 of Elon. Must thank playing video games for this. 3:11:03.400 --> 3:11:09.360 Oh hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes. Every 3:11:09.360 --> 3:11:11.600 week from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:11:12.360 --> 3:11:14.840 It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:11:15.040 --> 3:11:18.080 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:11:18.160 --> 3:11:21.760 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:11:21.840 --> 3:11:23.879 Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 3:11:23.520 --> 3:11:24.880 You listen to podcasts. 3:11:25.160 --> 3:11:27.080 You can now find sources for it could Happen Here 3:11:27.120 --> 3:11:29.039 listed directly in episode descriptions. 3:11:29.280 --> 3:11:30.080 Thanks for listening.